/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2006/09/16/#ubuntu-artwork.txt

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Viper550I saw that Kubuntu Edgy Knot 3 is looking good03:20
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Who_troy_s: you there?05:15
troy_sbarely05:15
troy_si am stretching the limits of my imagination to attempt and integrate what sabdfl likes05:16
troy_sinto some form of a whole05:16
troy_sthus far it feels impossible :)05:16
Who_what does sabdfl like?05:16
Who_did yopu see tyhe GDMs I did today?05:16
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troy_syep05:17
Who_he seemed to like the logo and glosss style a whgile back - I don't know if his mind has changed05:17
troy_she would hate them as a good guess05:17
Who_...reasons?05:17
troy_swell the main problem _even_ if we were to say try something as simple as05:17
troy_susing the existing gdm05:17
troy_sflipping the curve on the lsplash (existing)05:17
troy_sand using the existing wallpaper from dapper (and fixing the god awful curve anomolies)05:18
troy_sis to find a palette in there05:18
Who_(we have the source from the lsplash?)05:18
troy_sand after having looked at about 1000000000 palettes over the past05:18
Who_there isn't one, all three use different colours05:18
troy_sfew months05:18
troy_syep05:18
troy_sthere isn't even one that comes close05:18
troy_sthere are many terrific palettes out there05:18
troy_sbut for example05:18
Who_the palette I _like_ is the current GDM one05:18
troy_sthe closest one i have found is05:18
troy_sone out of j. krause's palette index05:19
troy_scolour library05:19
troy_sbut it has a few shortcomings when compared to the existing work05:19
Who_grr...can you give me some idea of what about the recent GDMs sabdfl would hate - if he's gonna have final say then there is no point in me doing stuff he won't like...05:19
troy_sfurther, i am pretty sure i can make something virtually identical to sabdfl's liking (aka leave gdm, twist lsplash (invert a curve so it matches folders at _least_)05:20
troy_sbasically,05:20
troy_she created the gdm05:20
troy_sso it will stay05:20
troy_sthe _most_ we could hope for is to get a bloody palette in place in edgy05:20
troy_sif i had to bet05:20
troy_sbut even then05:20
troy_seven _with_ a professional palette05:20
troy_sthere is barely any way to build _anything_ into the mix that would be satisfactory to sabdfl.05:21
Who_my designs are so similar to his though, just with the style he chose ofr the Human icons applied...05:21
troy_swhich ... makes it tricky to do anything.05:21
Who_troy_s: does he know what he is actually looking for?05:21
Who_or is he waiting to be 'hit'?05:21
troy_si have no idea, but it isn't important.05:21
troy_si think the problem is that everyone re05:22
troy_s_really_ underestimated our ponder phase05:22
Who_does he agree?05:22
troy_sultimately, sabdfl appears to 'like' small tidbits05:22
troy_sbut then frankensteining them together just doesn't work05:22
troy_sso it would involve some level of synthisis05:22
Who_but he likes 'polish'05:22
troy_swell polish05:23
troy_sis a general cohesiveness by tweaking elements05:23
troy_sgiven the sources to the three elements05:23
troy_si can tell you that there is _zero_ way that i could achieve that with existing work.05:23
Who_I have been considering developing all aspects of the designs I have been doing, an lsplash similar, etc - but I think you are suggesting there is no point, right?05:23
Who_troy_s: I know! they are just totally incompatible, and it looks crap05:24
troy_swell05:24
troy_scrap is a strong term05:24
troy_swhat we really need05:24
troy_sis to STRICTLY adhere to the system05:24
Who_okay, it looks far inferior to the cohesiveness of SUSE and Fedora....05:24
troy_sand get STEP by step evaluation05:24
troy_syes05:24
troy_sbut that is fundamental design principles05:24
troy_svery _simple_ principles05:25
Who_many, many reviews praised suse for being one of the first distros to 'lack duct tape'05:25
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troy_sPingunz -- who is 14 years old05:25
Chipzzhi05:25
troy_shit the nail on the head with his estimation.05:25
troy_shi chipzz05:25
troy_swith me who_?05:25
Who_troy_s: what estimation?05:25
troy_sand even then, as with aesop's work,05:25
troy_sthere is _zero_ percent chance to come up with something that is acceptable to everyone05:25
troy_sso those constants we just need to accept05:26
troy_sbrainstorming might help...05:26
troy_sbut now, we are left with the teetering edge of bloody time05:26
Who_troy_s: apparently not on the PinunZ front...and you may have to point me to aesop's work, or tell me what it looked like...05:26
troy_swith very little helpful discussion along the path to build upon.05:26
troy_sum...05:26
troy_saesop wrote a few fables... let me see if i can find the one05:26
Who_yea - I think what we need is more of the approval/guidance from sabdfl along the way, like you got from him part way through05:26
Who_ohhhh - I though you were talking about a member of the teram!!05:27
Who_hare and tortoise - I am familiar05:27
Chipzzwhere did /usr/share/pixmaps/grub/ubuntu-artwork.xpm.gz go?05:28
troy_shttp://home1.gte.net/deleyd/prose/aesop63.htm05:28
troy_suh in dapper chipzz05:28
troy_s?05:28
Chipzzhttp://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_contents.pl?word=%2Fusr%2Fshare%2Fpixmaps%2Fgrub%2Fubuntu-artwork.xpm.gz&searchmode=searchfiles&case=insensitive&version=edgy&arch=i386 says it's in ubuntu-artwork05:28
troy_swho_ even with sabdfl's guidance05:28
Chipzztroy_s: no, edgy05:28
troy_si just can't see anyone being exactly happy05:28
Chipzzbut it is not05:28
troy_schipzz -- don't know.  there was plenty discussion regarding pairing down all of the art / theme elements in edgy05:29
troy_sto get some space back05:29
Chipzzand this breaks my grub setup05:29
troy_sfrank would probably be able to tell you quite off the top05:29
Who_troy_s: I don't care if I am personally happy with the work - that is what I do Blubuntu for - I want to see cohesivness and professioinality05:29
Chipzzyes the artwork package was split up05:29
troy_swho_ exactly05:29
troy_sbut i fear that even with that modest goal05:29
troy_sit is almost impossible to achieve strictly trying to appease sabdfl.05:29
ChipzzI know that, all the packages the new package depends on were installed05:29
Chipzzbut no grub artwork :S05:30
troy_schipzz email frank05:30
troy_swho_ you with me?05:30
Chipzztroy_s: should I file a bug report alternatively?05:30
troy_sso here is the ultimate option:  deal with completely discreet components that are completely frankensteined together (as with dapper for example)05:30
troy_schipzz start with frank05:30
troy_schipzz he is the aic and has bzr access to fix that issue05:31
Chipzztroy_s: email?05:31
troy_swww.launchpad.net/people05:31
Who_troy_s: yes - I am becoming more sure that he either needs to: lead the group and guide us, or step back and let the person he chooses guide us and the direction05:31
troy_sdo a search for frank schoep05:31
troy_swho_ well he will hire an art director05:31
troy_sbut05:31
troy_si don't think anyone will stick around too long05:31
troy_sfactually speaking... the fundamental elements are very contradicting to integrate into a whole.05:32
Who_I think if they get space it would be pretty rewarding to work with the team05:32
troy_si have tried _countless_ times to start at the gdm and work to a wallpaper05:32
troy_sbut it is damn impossible.05:32
troy_sbecause coming from that gdm to a darker wallpaper05:32
troy_sfor example05:32
troy_sthe _only_ things that seemed to be even remotely positive05:32
troy_sin terms of reception from him05:32
Who_that is exactly how I got to the swirls (which make a good wallpaper, imo and imgfo... we've been using it)05:32
troy_swere two wallpapers that i knocked off attempting to use an identical palette from dapper05:33
troy_sand even the godawful composition05:33
troy_swhich resulted in this obtuse looking thing that wasn't very ... good.  ;)05:33
troy_salas, he seemed to gravitate to them...05:33
troy_slargely _probably_ because of the subconscious similarity to what is already present.05:33
troy_slets see if i can dig up the comment on swirl.05:34
Who_yea...I'll put up something else I tried today05:34
troy_swell if it is gdm, don't bother.05:34
troy_sthe only real way to get some element of change is to have someone with some credibility05:34
troy_sstep up and offer an insightful review of the ubuntu look05:35
troy_swhich probably won't happen05:35
troy_sit is visual musac05:35
Who_lol05:35
troy_swhich is damn hard to design for when the framework for the musac is A) undefined B) all over the map C) subject to completely useless bikeshedding.05:35
Who_I think if Edgy isn't much better than Dapper then two things will happen) 1. the people of digg will wonder how a team that was producing lots of interesting work didn't get much of it in, and 2) some 'official' reviewers will point out the lack of coherence05:36
troy_sespecially considering that research shows you are to treat a positive comment as 10x that of a negative05:36
Who_both of which may carry some weight05:36
troy_shardly05:36
Who_you don't think cnet reviews that are not good will do anything?05:37
troy_slaf05:37
troy_swell... let knot3 die05:37
troy_sbasically, pull all of the work and revert to dapper05:37
troy_sis about the best we can hope for05:37
troy_swell...05:38
troy_sagain05:38
troy_scnet reviews are great, but the bottom line is that it doesn't matter who you are ultimately trying to appease05:38
Who_troy_s: can you be any more clear on which elements of the recent GDMs you think sabdfl won't like - they are like the JMAK ones that he said were great, they are like the icons he likes...05:38
troy_sthe structure is still missing05:38
troy_swho_ all of them05:38
Who_troy_s: oh dear :P05:39
troy_sif i were forced into a corner and _had_ to05:39
troy_sestimate on the sabdfl aesthetic05:39
troy_si would say that05:39
troy_sA) he is against buttons05:39
troy_sB) he is pro monochromatic05:39
troy_sanyways... i must jet.05:40
KurtKrauttroy_s, let me ask you something05:46
KurtKrauttroy_s, the Edgy's design should please the community or the sabdfl personal taste ?05:46
troy_skurtkraut -- either would work for me.05:46
troy_sbut i fear ultimately neither.05:46
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nysosymhi there01:32
nysosymany icon devs for edgy here?01:32
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andreasnnysosym: hm, kind of01:33
nysosymhi kwwii_ :)01:33
andreasnnysosym: I have nothing with human to to, but I do stuff on tango and tangerine01:33
kwwiinysosym: howdy01:33
andreasnand g-i-t01:34
nysosymandreasn: good to know, but i have a "problem" with human icons01:34
andreasnnothing I can do then, sorry :(01:35
kwwiinysosym: send an email to the list01:35
nysosymkwwii: i will do that! :)01:37
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Viper550I see we have some good comments on Knot 304:31
PingunZViper550: Where ?04:31
Viper550https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Artwork/Incoming/Kubuntu-Edgy-Ideas-Feedback04:32
PingunZMy firefox totally crashes when I open that site, rofl04:34
Viper550You use KDE?04:38
PingunZNowp, gnome-freak :)04:41
PingunZSo it doesn't matter actually.. I can read it but my firefox looks horrible while opening the site04:41
PingunZI'll upload the picture of firefox ;)04:41
Viper550http://bay01.imagebay.com/bay.php?view=7504_dualgradient.png kwwii, I made an even nicer new gradient!04:42
PingunZhttp://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=crashffob2.png :)04:43
kwwiiViper550: I am running to the store to get food for dinner, I will check it out when I get back, ok?04:43
Viper550okay, you get your good eats and we'll deliberate later!04:43
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=== effraie s'absente pour sortir les poubelles
Viper550Sorting trash eh?04:54
ryanakcaViper550: found you :P04:56
Viper550hi04:58
Viper550I've decided to while I wait for Ubuntu Edgy to come out with my theme, to contribute to Kubuntu04:59
ryanakca:)05:00
=== ryanakca pokes at his metabar theme... anybody feel like giving me their opinion on it?
ryanakcaWhat to change... what to keep, etc05:00
Viper550You wanna try out my Crystal Overlay?05:00
Viper550p.s. Metabar whacking up APT is what caused me to switch to FC505:01
ryanakcanow that kubuntu is blueish purple... that mean's I'll have to change it though...05:01
ryanakcaViper550: crystal overlay... for...05:01
effraieViper550: scuse me, i though i was on an other chan05:01
Viper550The window border05:01
ryanakcaah, in kubuntu?05:02
Viper550yeah05:02
ryanakcaor ubuntu?05:02
ryanakcagood, kubuntu, link?05:02
Viper550http://bay01.imagebay.com/bay.php?view=7504_dualgradient.png05:02
ryanakcaAm I supposed to see anything?05:03
Viper550PingunZ: Uslab=instant win05:03
Viper550It's transparent PNG05:03
ryanakcaAll I see is a blue background with a blue box05:03
ryanakcaah05:03
ryanakcaHow do I test it?05:03
Viper550Save it somewhere, go to System Settings/Control Center05:04
Viper550Go to Window Decorations, select Crystal, and go to the Overlay tab05:04
=== ryanakca twiddles while kcontrol opens up on his uber slow box
ryanakcayes, there05:05
Viper550how uber slow is it?05:05
ryanakcaActive window? or Inactive Window05:05
ryanakcaViper550: takes about 10 seconds for kcontrol to load...05:06
Viper550Select userdefined, and use the fileselector to select your saved file ON BOTH SIDES05:06
Viper550(and I meant, how much memory do you have and such/such)05:06
ryanakcabut then take into consideration that this is my Server & Desktop box...05:06
ryanakcaSysinfo for 'rkavanagh': Linux 2.6.17-7-386 running KDE 3.5.4, CPU: Pentium III (Coppermine) at 996 MHz (1995 bogomips), HD: 38/186GB, RAM: 370/375MB, 160 proc's, 1.17d up05:06
Viper550oh, mine, pretty close to that, Athlon TB, 2.6, KDE 3.5.3, 256 mb ram05:07
ryanakcaI have apache + mysql + (too many apps to list)05:07
Viper550I'm not a server at least, takes about 3-5 seconds05:07
ryanakcaIf I killed some of them it would run much faster... and if I ran swapoff on my swap.. *gulp*... that's what's keeping it going... since 370/375mb of my ram is being used...05:08
ryanakcaoooh, I like05:09
Viper550Nice? I'm waiting for kwwii's opinion05:10
PingunZViper550: <Viper550> PingunZ: Uslab=instant win -> ??05:11
Viper550Uslab=my mod of the Slab panel from SLED 10 to be more optimized for Ubuntu05:12
ryanakcavery05:12
ryanakcabrb, I'm going to go compare with default settings...05:12
ryanakcaI still have the purple windecs for some reason...05:12
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PingunZViper550: I hacked slab too :)05:12
PingunZI'll post you a screenie :)05:12
Viper550Oh wait, you are the Gslab guy right?05:12
PingunZhttp://ubuntuforums.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=3522&cat=500&ppuser=3739405:13
PingunZViper550: That's darkmatter :)05:13
Viper550nice, still!05:13
PingunZThanks05:13
PingunZhow does yours look like ?05:13
Viper550Oooh, Compiz...if only my Linux computer were powerful...my Main Windows computer can do Compiz (off that Live CD)05:14
PingunZEek, I haven't used windows in a few months :)05:14
Viper550My Linux compy is dual-boot, XP and FC505:14
PingunZIt's not user-friendly enough for me -> Windows :)05:15
Viper550I'm also switching my friend to Dapper today, I hope she likes the brown...05:16
PingunZViper550: YOu're in the art team .. make her desky look nice :)05:17
Viper550I might give her a preview of Tropic05:17
PingunZViper550: I'm still waiting for a Usplab screenshot ;)05:18
PingunZShow her some teams and then make her desktop look like it ;)05:18
Viper550Uslab isn't much, it just changes the icon and removes the integrating with Zen Updater05:19
PingunZScreenie, screenie :)05:20
PingunZOr you could send the source ..05:20
Viper550I'm not that much of a slab fan, it's not visually different, it's just what you have but without the mods to the actual menu05:21
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Viper550And ryanacka, I have some other destined artwork that you can try, a new panel background! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Kubuntu-Edgy-Ideas?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=glosspanel_kubuntu.jpg05:22
ryanakca*cough*05:24
ryanakcaenough system crashes for the day :)05:24
PingunZhttp://ubuntuforums.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=229705:24
PingunZWhat a sweet wallpaper !05:25
ryanakcayeah05:26
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PingunZHey, I'm trying to edit my gtk theme :) What's the name of gnome-panel ?08:37
PingunZI'm using the Murrina engine btw08:39
troy_sPingunZ did ryanakca do the stone with the ubuntu logo imprinted on it?08:39
PingunZtroy_s: What do you mean ?08:40
PingunZhttp://ubuntuforums.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=2297 --> This wall ?08:40
ryanakcatroy_s: no...08:40
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Viper550Everyone's still here I see09:20
Viper550kwwii, you tried out my overlay?09:22
kwwiiViper550: doing so now09:26
Viper550Okay...09:26
kwwiiViper550: I do not like that the gradient ends at the bottom with a lighter color than the rest of the window frame, it looks like it is not part of it09:28
Viper550You mean the gloss?09:28
kwwiiyepp...I made like 20 different ones, and although some of them look awesome, the make the title bar stand out from the rest of the frame09:29
kwwii one second, I will show you09:30
Viper550Hmm, maybe I only need the top section...09:30
kwwiihttp://bootsplash.org/windowdecotest2.png09:32
kwwiithat about fits to your panel background09:32
kwwiibut then I would have to chang the buttons09:32
Viper550403'd09:32
kwwiioops09:33
kwwiiok, try again09:33
Viper550I remember that overlay09:33
kwwiithat is in my screenshots09:33
kwwiiperhaps I should work on the buttons, but people kinda liked the effect, so I would hate to change things around now09:34
kwwiiperhaps we could try it though09:34
Viper550Just let me upload this improved version I made09:35
Viper550http://bay01.imagebay.com/bay.php?view=7516_glossoverlay.png09:36
kwwiican you point me to your panel bg pic again? I lost it somewhere09:36
Viper550This one works alot better because it only skins the top, and it still gives the "doublegloss" effect on the buttons09:36
Viper550http://bay01.imagebay.com/bay.php?view=7517_glosspanel_kubuntu.jpg09:37
Viper550I actually kinda like the effect that your buttons have with an overlay of gloss, looks unique and fresh09:40
kwwiiboah, something is totally broken on my edgy09:40
kwwiiit cannot show any panel bg pics without messing things up09:40
Viper550uh oh, what happen? did someone set us up the bomb?09:40
Viper550Well, it was YOUR choice to use alpha software!09:40
kwwii;-)09:41
kwwiino, it is my job09:41
Viper550I could make you a screenshot, I have different icons and wallpaper but it's close09:42
kwwiiI got it working again09:42
kwwiihad to restart kicker09:42
Viper550oh, never mind09:43
kwwiiI think that that last version is way too light on top09:44
kwwiibut the panel bg is right on09:44
kwwiiperhaps we could use a window gradient like this09:44
kwwiihave to see what people think09:44
Viper550I can adjust the overlay again09:45
=== Viper550 goes experimenting
kwwiihttp://bootsplash.org/windowdecotest2.png in the window deco overlays and http://bootsplash.org/glosspanel_kubuntu.jpg for the panel bg looks best to me09:46
kwwiiyes,that is your panelbg09:46
kwwii:-)09:46
kwwiibut with that I need to make the buttons not stick out so much09:47
kwwiimake them look more like they are inside the glass09:47
Viper550But, the dark overlay kinda looks a bit...weird streaked inside the buttons09:51
Viper550That's why I used the white09:52
Viper550(updated) http://bay01.imagebay.com/bay.php?view=7518_glossoverlay.png09:53
PingunZWohoo, my edgy's look is finally done :) http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/39902155/09:55
PingunZComments are welcome.. Bah I stfu :)09:58
Viper550Awesome...09:59
PingunZty :)09:59
PingunZI had a lot of work to make it look that way :)09:59
Viper550So kwwii, you like the new one?10:04
kwwiilet me check it, one second10:05
kwwiihrm, it looks about the same as the last one10:07
kwwiithe top part of my window deco is much lighter than the bottom10:08
kwwiinot sure that I like that, sorry10:08
Viper550Wait, were there any changes to the actual color scheme? Also it's supposed to be like that, it's gloss!10:10
kwwii yes, the color scheme was updated in knot310:11
kwwiimy point is that the effect is a bit too exagerated10:11
kwwiinot bad or wrong, just too much for me10:11
kwwiithen again, I have small screen on my test system10:12
Viper550Mine is 1280x1024, LCD10:12
kwwiiI have a small but very good crt10:12
Viper550oh, 1024x768?10:13
kwwiiyepp10:13
PingunZOh, I'm goin g for a 20.1 " 1600*1200 screen :)10:13
kwwiiI will try it later on my big mac (when I can reboot into linux, working on cutting video now)10:13
PingunZrofl @ big mac :)10:13
Viper550oh, no wonder! (think you could upload the new color scheme?)10:14
Viper550still there kwwii?10:18
kwwiiyepp, just talking to my wife10:19
Viper550Some more adjustments... http://bay01.imagebay.com/bay.php?view=7519_glossoverlay.png10:19
kwwiiViper550: you'll find the new colorscheme in http://bootsplash.org/KnotImages_plus.tar.gz (among other things)10:20
=== kwwii watches a film, so I am semi-afk
Viper550Lookin' good10:31
Viper550Maybe I'll get some help from users...while you watch your blockbuster type video file10:36
=== Viper550 [n=Viper550@d57-121-167.home.cgocable.net] has left #ubuntu-artwork ["Just]

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