[03:20] <Viper550> I saw that Kubuntu Edgy Knot 3 is looking good
[05:15] <Who_> troy_s: you there?
[05:15] <troy_s> barely
[05:16] <troy_s> i am stretching the limits of my imagination to attempt and integrate what sabdfl likes
[05:16] <troy_s> into some form of a whole
[05:16] <troy_s> thus far it feels impossible :)
[05:16] <Who_> what does sabdfl like?
[05:16] <Who_> did yopu see tyhe GDMs I did today?
[05:17] <troy_s> yep
[05:17] <Who_> he seemed to like the logo and glosss style a whgile back - I don't know if his mind has changed
[05:17] <troy_s> he would hate them as a good guess
[05:17] <Who_> ...reasons?
[05:17] <troy_s> well the main problem _even_ if we were to say try something as simple as
[05:17] <troy_s> using the existing gdm
[05:17] <troy_s> flipping the curve on the lsplash (existing)
[05:18] <troy_s> and using the existing wallpaper from dapper (and fixing the god awful curve anomolies)
[05:18] <troy_s> is to find a palette in there
[05:18] <Who_> (we have the source from the lsplash?)
[05:18] <troy_s> and after having looked at about 1000000000 palettes over the past
[05:18] <Who_> there isn't one, all three use different colours
[05:18] <troy_s> few months
[05:18] <troy_s> yep
[05:18] <troy_s> there isn't even one that comes close
[05:18] <troy_s> there are many terrific palettes out there
[05:18] <troy_s> but for example
[05:18] <Who_> the palette I _like_ is the current GDM one
[05:18] <troy_s> the closest one i have found is
[05:19] <troy_s> one out of j. krause's palette index
[05:19] <troy_s> colour library
[05:19] <troy_s> but it has a few shortcomings when compared to the existing work
[05:19] <Who_> grr...can you give me some idea of what about the recent GDMs sabdfl would hate - if he's gonna have final say then there is no point in me doing stuff he won't like...
[05:20] <troy_s> further, i am pretty sure i can make something virtually identical to sabdfl's liking (aka leave gdm, twist lsplash (invert a curve so it matches folders at _least_)
[05:20] <troy_s> basically,
[05:20] <troy_s> he created the gdm
[05:20] <troy_s> so it will stay
[05:20] <troy_s> the _most_ we could hope for is to get a bloody palette in place in edgy
[05:20] <troy_s> if i had to bet
[05:20] <troy_s> but even then
[05:20] <troy_s> even _with_ a professional palette
[05:21] <troy_s> there is barely any way to build _anything_ into the mix that would be satisfactory to sabdfl.
[05:21] <Who_> my designs are so similar to his though, just with the style he chose ofr the Human icons applied...
[05:21] <troy_s> which ... makes it tricky to do anything.
[05:21] <Who_> troy_s: does he know what he is actually looking for?
[05:21] <Who_> or is he waiting to be 'hit'?
[05:21] <troy_s> i have no idea, but it isn't important.
[05:22] <troy_s> i think the problem is that everyone re
[05:22] <troy_s> _really_ underestimated our ponder phase
[05:22] <Who_> does he agree?
[05:22] <troy_s> ultimately, sabdfl appears to 'like' small tidbits
[05:22] <troy_s> but then frankensteining them together just doesn't work
[05:22] <troy_s> so it would involve some level of synthisis
[05:22] <Who_> but he likes 'polish'
[05:23] <troy_s> well polish
[05:23] <troy_s> is a general cohesiveness by tweaking elements
[05:23] <troy_s> given the sources to the three elements
[05:23] <troy_s> i can tell you that there is _zero_ way that i could achieve that with existing work.
[05:23] <Who_> I have been considering developing all aspects of the designs I have been doing, an lsplash similar, etc - but I think you are suggesting there is no point, right?
[05:24] <Who_> troy_s: I know! they are just totally incompatible, and it looks crap
[05:24] <troy_s> well
[05:24] <troy_s> crap is a strong term
[05:24] <troy_s> what we really need
[05:24] <troy_s> is to STRICTLY adhere to the system
[05:24] <Who_> okay, it looks far inferior to the cohesiveness of SUSE and Fedora....
[05:24] <troy_s> and get STEP by step evaluation
[05:24] <troy_s> yes
[05:24] <troy_s> but that is fundamental design principles
[05:25] <troy_s> very _simple_ principles
[05:25] <Who_> many, many reviews praised suse for being one of the first distros to 'lack duct tape'
[05:25] <troy_s> Pingunz -- who is 14 years old
[05:25] <Chipzz> hi
[05:25] <troy_s> hit the nail on the head with his estimation.
[05:25] <troy_s> hi chipzz
[05:25] <troy_s> with me who_?
[05:25] <Who_> troy_s: what estimation?
[05:25] <troy_s> and even then, as with aesop's work,
[05:25] <troy_s> there is _zero_ percent chance to come up with something that is acceptable to everyone
[05:26] <troy_s> so those constants we just need to accept
[05:26] <troy_s> brainstorming might help...
[05:26] <troy_s> but now, we are left with the teetering edge of bloody time
[05:26] <Who_> troy_s: apparently not on the PinunZ front...and you may have to point me to aesop's work, or tell me what it looked like...
[05:26] <troy_s> with very little helpful discussion along the path to build upon.
[05:26] <troy_s> um...
[05:26] <troy_s> aesop wrote a few fables... let me see if i can find the one
[05:26] <Who_> yea - I think what we need is more of the approval/guidance from sabdfl along the way, like you got from him part way through
[05:27] <Who_> ohhhh - I though you were talking about a member of the teram!!
[05:27] <Who_> hare and tortoise - I am familiar
[05:28] <Chipzz> where did /usr/share/pixmaps/grub/ubuntu-artwork.xpm.gz go?
[05:28] <troy_s> http://home1.gte.net/deleyd/prose/aesop63.htm
[05:28] <troy_s> uh in dapper chipzz
[05:28] <troy_s> ?
[05:28] <Chipzz> http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_contents.pl?word=%2Fusr%2Fshare%2Fpixmaps%2Fgrub%2Fubuntu-artwork.xpm.gz&searchmode=searchfiles&case=insensitive&version=edgy&arch=i386 says it's in ubuntu-artwork
[05:28] <troy_s> who_ even with sabdfl's guidance
[05:28] <Chipzz> troy_s: no, edgy
[05:28] <troy_s> i just can't see anyone being exactly happy
[05:28] <Chipzz> but it is not
[05:29] <troy_s> chipzz -- don't know.  there was plenty discussion regarding pairing down all of the art / theme elements in edgy
[05:29] <troy_s> to get some space back
[05:29] <Chipzz> and this breaks my grub setup
[05:29] <troy_s> frank would probably be able to tell you quite off the top
[05:29] <Who_> troy_s: I don't care if I am personally happy with the work - that is what I do Blubuntu for - I want to see cohesivness and professioinality
[05:29] <Chipzz> yes the artwork package was split up
[05:29] <troy_s> who_ exactly
[05:29] <troy_s> but i fear that even with that modest goal
[05:29] <troy_s> it is almost impossible to achieve strictly trying to appease sabdfl.
[05:29] <Chipzz> I know that, all the packages the new package depends on were installed
[05:30] <Chipzz> but no grub artwork :S
[05:30] <troy_s> chipzz email frank
[05:30] <troy_s> who_ you with me?
[05:30] <Chipzz> troy_s: should I file a bug report alternatively?
[05:30] <troy_s> so here is the ultimate option:  deal with completely discreet components that are completely frankensteined together (as with dapper for example)
[05:30] <troy_s> chipzz start with frank
[05:31] <troy_s> chipzz he is the aic and has bzr access to fix that issue
[05:31] <Chipzz> troy_s: email?
[05:31] <troy_s> www.launchpad.net/people
[05:31] <Who_> troy_s: yes - I am becoming more sure that he either needs to: lead the group and guide us, or step back and let the person he chooses guide us and the direction
[05:31] <troy_s> do a search for frank schoep
[05:31] <troy_s> who_ well he will hire an art director
[05:31] <troy_s> but
[05:31] <troy_s> i don't think anyone will stick around too long
[05:32] <troy_s> factually speaking... the fundamental elements are very contradicting to integrate into a whole.
[05:32] <Who_> I think if they get space it would be pretty rewarding to work with the team
[05:32] <troy_s> i have tried _countless_ times to start at the gdm and work to a wallpaper
[05:32] <troy_s> but it is damn impossible.
[05:32] <troy_s> because coming from that gdm to a darker wallpaper
[05:32] <troy_s> for example
[05:32] <troy_s> the _only_ things that seemed to be even remotely positive
[05:32] <troy_s> in terms of reception from him
[05:32] <Who_> that is exactly how I got to the swirls (which make a good wallpaper, imo and imgfo... we've been using it)
[05:33] <troy_s> were two wallpapers that i knocked off attempting to use an identical palette from dapper
[05:33] <troy_s> and even the godawful composition
[05:33] <troy_s> which resulted in this obtuse looking thing that wasn't very ... good.  ;)
[05:33] <troy_s> alas, he seemed to gravitate to them...
[05:33] <troy_s> largely _probably_ because of the subconscious similarity to what is already present.
[05:34] <troy_s> lets see if i can dig up the comment on swirl.
[05:34] <Who_> yea...I'll put up something else I tried today
[05:34] <troy_s> well if it is gdm, don't bother.
[05:34] <troy_s> the only real way to get some element of change is to have someone with some credibility
[05:35] <troy_s> step up and offer an insightful review of the ubuntu look
[05:35] <troy_s> which probably won't happen
[05:35] <troy_s> it is visual musac
[05:35] <Who_> lol
[05:35] <troy_s> which is damn hard to design for when the framework for the musac is A) undefined B) all over the map C) subject to completely useless bikeshedding.
[05:36] <Who_> I think if Edgy isn't much better than Dapper then two things will happen) 1. the people of digg will wonder how a team that was producing lots of interesting work didn't get much of it in, and 2) some 'official' reviewers will point out the lack of coherence
[05:36] <troy_s> especially considering that research shows you are to treat a positive comment as 10x that of a negative
[05:36] <Who_> both of which may carry some weight
[05:36] <troy_s> hardly
[05:37] <Who_> you don't think cnet reviews that are not good will do anything?
[05:37] <troy_s> laf
[05:37] <troy_s> well... let knot3 die
[05:37] <troy_s> basically, pull all of the work and revert to dapper
[05:37] <troy_s> is about the best we can hope for
[05:38] <troy_s> well...
[05:38] <troy_s> again
[05:38] <troy_s> cnet reviews are great, but the bottom line is that it doesn't matter who you are ultimately trying to appease
[05:38] <Who_> troy_s: can you be any more clear on which elements of the recent GDMs you think sabdfl won't like - they are like the JMAK ones that he said were great, they are like the icons he likes...
[05:38] <troy_s> the structure is still missing
[05:38] <troy_s> who_ all of them
[05:39] <Who_> troy_s: oh dear :P
[05:39] <troy_s> if i were forced into a corner and _had_ to
[05:39] <troy_s> estimate on the sabdfl aesthetic
[05:39] <troy_s> i would say that
[05:39] <troy_s> A) he is against buttons
[05:39] <troy_s> B) he is pro monochromatic
[05:40] <troy_s> anyways... i must jet.
[05:46] <KurtKraut> troy_s, let me ask you something
[05:46] <KurtKraut> troy_s, the Edgy's design should please the community or the sabdfl personal taste ?
[05:46] <troy_s> kurtkraut -- either would work for me.
[05:46] <troy_s> but i fear ultimately neither.
[01:32] <nysosym> hi there
[01:32] <nysosym> any icon devs for edgy here?
[01:33] <andreasn> nysosym: hm, kind of
[01:33] <nysosym> hi kwwii_ :)
[01:33] <andreasn> nysosym: I have nothing with human to to, but I do stuff on tango and tangerine
[01:33] <kwwii> nysosym: howdy
[01:34] <andreasn> and g-i-t
[01:34] <nysosym> andreasn: good to know, but i have a "problem" with human icons
[01:35] <andreasn> nothing I can do then, sorry :(
[01:35] <kwwii> nysosym: send an email to the list
[01:37] <nysosym> kwwii: i will do that! :)
[04:31] <Viper550> I see we have some good comments on Knot 3
[04:31] <PingunZ> Viper550: Where ?
[04:32] <Viper550> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Artwork/Incoming/Kubuntu-Edgy-Ideas-Feedback
[04:34] <PingunZ> My firefox totally crashes when I open that site, rofl
[04:38] <Viper550> You use KDE?
[04:41] <PingunZ> Nowp, gnome-freak :)
[04:41] <PingunZ> So it doesn't matter actually.. I can read it but my firefox looks horrible while opening the site
[04:41] <PingunZ> I'll upload the picture of firefox ;)
[04:42] <Viper550> http://bay01.imagebay.com/bay.php?view=7504_dualgradient.png kwwii, I made an even nicer new gradient!
[04:43] <PingunZ> http://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=crashffob2.png :)
[04:43] <kwwii> Viper550: I am running to the store to get food for dinner, I will check it out when I get back, ok?
[04:43] <Viper550> okay, you get your good eats and we'll deliberate later!
[04:54] <Viper550> Sorting trash eh?
[04:56] <ryanakca> Viper550: found you :P
[04:58] <Viper550> hi
[04:59] <Viper550> I've decided to while I wait for Ubuntu Edgy to come out with my theme, to contribute to Kubuntu
[05:00] <ryanakca> :)
[05:00] <ryanakca> What to change... what to keep, etc
[05:00] <Viper550> You wanna try out my Crystal Overlay?
[05:01] <Viper550> p.s. Metabar whacking up APT is what caused me to switch to FC5
[05:01] <ryanakca> now that kubuntu is blueish purple... that mean's I'll have to change it though...
[05:01] <ryanakca> Viper550: crystal overlay... for...
[05:01] <effraie> Viper550: scuse me, i though i was on an other chan
[05:01] <Viper550> The window border
[05:02] <ryanakca> ah, in kubuntu?
[05:02] <Viper550> yeah
[05:02] <ryanakca> or ubuntu?
[05:02] <ryanakca> good, kubuntu, link?
[05:02] <Viper550> http://bay01.imagebay.com/bay.php?view=7504_dualgradient.png
[05:03] <ryanakca> Am I supposed to see anything?
[05:03] <Viper550> PingunZ: Uslab=instant win
[05:03] <Viper550> It's transparent PNG
[05:03] <ryanakca> All I see is a blue background with a blue box
[05:03] <ryanakca> ah
[05:03] <ryanakca> How do I test it?
[05:04] <Viper550> Save it somewhere, go to System Settings/Control Center
[05:04] <Viper550> Go to Window Decorations, select Crystal, and go to the Overlay tab
[05:05] <ryanakca> yes, there
[05:05] <Viper550> how uber slow is it?
[05:05] <ryanakca> Active window? or Inactive Window
[05:06] <ryanakca> Viper550: takes about 10 seconds for kcontrol to load...
[05:06] <Viper550> Select userdefined, and use the fileselector to select your saved file ON BOTH SIDES
[05:06] <Viper550> (and I meant, how much memory do you have and such/such)
[05:06] <ryanakca> but then take into consideration that this is my Server & Desktop box...
[05:06] <ryanakca> Sysinfo for 'rkavanagh': Linux 2.6.17-7-386 running KDE 3.5.4, CPU: Pentium III (Coppermine) at 996 MHz (1995 bogomips), HD: 38/186GB, RAM: 370/375MB, 160 proc's, 1.17d up
[05:07] <Viper550> oh, mine, pretty close to that, Athlon TB, 2.6, KDE 3.5.3, 256 mb ram
[05:07] <ryanakca> I have apache + mysql + (too many apps to list)
[05:07] <Viper550> I'm not a server at least, takes about 3-5 seconds
[05:08] <ryanakca> If I killed some of them it would run much faster... and if I ran swapoff on my swap.. *gulp*... that's what's keeping it going... since 370/375mb of my ram is being used...
[05:09] <ryanakca> oooh, I like
[05:10] <Viper550> Nice? I'm waiting for kwwii's opinion
[05:11] <PingunZ> Viper550: <Viper550> PingunZ: Uslab=instant win -> ??
[05:12] <Viper550> Uslab=my mod of the Slab panel from SLED 10 to be more optimized for Ubuntu
[05:12] <ryanakca> very
[05:12] <ryanakca> brb, I'm going to go compare with default settings...
[05:12] <ryanakca> I still have the purple windecs for some reason...
[05:12] <PingunZ> Viper550: I hacked slab too :)
[05:12] <PingunZ> I'll post you a screenie :)
[05:12] <Viper550> Oh wait, you are the Gslab guy right?
[05:13] <PingunZ> http://ubuntuforums.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=3522&cat=500&ppuser=37394
[05:13] <PingunZ> Viper550: That's darkmatter :)
[05:13] <Viper550> nice, still!
[05:13] <PingunZ> Thanks
[05:13] <PingunZ> how does yours look like ?
[05:14] <Viper550> Oooh, Compiz...if only my Linux computer were powerful...my Main Windows computer can do Compiz (off that Live CD)
[05:14] <PingunZ> Eek, I haven't used windows in a few months :)
[05:14] <Viper550> My Linux compy is dual-boot, XP and FC5
[05:15] <PingunZ> It's not user-friendly enough for me -> Windows :)
[05:16] <Viper550> I'm also switching my friend to Dapper today, I hope she likes the brown...
[05:17] <PingunZ> Viper550: YOu're in the art team .. make her desky look nice :)
[05:17] <Viper550> I might give her a preview of Tropic
[05:18] <PingunZ> Viper550: I'm still waiting for a Usplab screenshot ;)
[05:18] <PingunZ> Show her some teams and then make her desktop look like it ;)
[05:19] <Viper550> Uslab isn't much, it just changes the icon and removes the integrating with Zen Updater
[05:20] <PingunZ> Screenie, screenie :)
[05:20] <PingunZ> Or you could send the source ..
[05:21] <Viper550> I'm not that much of a slab fan, it's not visually different, it's just what you have but without the mods to the actual menu
[05:22] <Viper550> And ryanacka, I have some other destined artwork that you can try, a new panel background! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Kubuntu-Edgy-Ideas?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=glosspanel_kubuntu.jpg
[05:24] <ryanakca> *cough*
[05:24] <ryanakca> enough system crashes for the day :)
[05:24] <PingunZ> http://ubuntuforums.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=2297
[05:25] <PingunZ> What a sweet wallpaper !
[05:26] <ryanakca> yeah
[08:37] <PingunZ> Hey, I'm trying to edit my gtk theme :) What's the name of gnome-panel ?
[08:39] <PingunZ> I'm using the Murrina engine btw
[08:39] <troy_s> PingunZ did ryanakca do the stone with the ubuntu logo imprinted on it?
[08:40] <PingunZ> troy_s: What do you mean ?
[08:40] <PingunZ> http://ubuntuforums.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=2297 --> This wall ?
[08:40] <ryanakca> troy_s: no...
[09:20] <Viper550> Everyone's still here I see
[09:22] <Viper550> kwwii, you tried out my overlay?
[09:26] <kwwii> Viper550: doing so now
[09:26] <Viper550> Okay...
[09:28] <kwwii> Viper550: I do not like that the gradient ends at the bottom with a lighter color than the rest of the window frame, it looks like it is not part of it
[09:28] <Viper550> You mean the gloss?
[09:29] <kwwii> yepp...I made like 20 different ones, and although some of them look awesome, the make the title bar stand out from the rest of the frame
[09:30] <kwwii>  one second, I will show you
[09:30] <Viper550> Hmm, maybe I only need the top section...
[09:32] <kwwii> http://bootsplash.org/windowdecotest2.png
[09:32] <kwwii> that about fits to your panel background
[09:32] <kwwii> but then I would have to chang the buttons
[09:32] <Viper550> 403'd
[09:33] <kwwii> oops
[09:33] <kwwii> ok, try again
[09:33] <Viper550> I remember that overlay
[09:33] <kwwii> that is in my screenshots
[09:34] <kwwii> perhaps I should work on the buttons, but people kinda liked the effect, so I would hate to change things around now
[09:34] <kwwii> perhaps we could try it though
[09:35] <Viper550> Just let me upload this improved version I made
[09:36] <Viper550> http://bay01.imagebay.com/bay.php?view=7516_glossoverlay.png
[09:36] <kwwii> can you point me to your panel bg pic again? I lost it somewhere
[09:36] <Viper550> This one works alot better because it only skins the top, and it still gives the "doublegloss" effect on the buttons
[09:37] <Viper550> http://bay01.imagebay.com/bay.php?view=7517_glosspanel_kubuntu.jpg
[09:40] <Viper550> I actually kinda like the effect that your buttons have with an overlay of gloss, looks unique and fresh
[09:40] <kwwii> boah, something is totally broken on my edgy
[09:40] <kwwii> it cannot show any panel bg pics without messing things up
[09:40] <Viper550> uh oh, what happen? did someone set us up the bomb?
[09:40] <Viper550> Well, it was YOUR choice to use alpha software!
[09:41] <kwwii> ;-)
[09:41] <kwwii> no, it is my job
[09:42] <Viper550> I could make you a screenshot, I have different icons and wallpaper but it's close
[09:42] <kwwii> I got it working again
[09:42] <kwwii> had to restart kicker
[09:43] <Viper550> oh, never mind
[09:44] <kwwii> I think that that last version is way too light on top
[09:44] <kwwii> but the panel bg is right on
[09:44] <kwwii> perhaps we could use a window gradient like this
[09:44] <kwwii> have to see what people think
[09:45] <Viper550> I can adjust the overlay again
[09:46] <kwwii> http://bootsplash.org/windowdecotest2.png in the window deco overlays and http://bootsplash.org/glosspanel_kubuntu.jpg for the panel bg looks best to me
[09:46] <kwwii> yes,that is your panelbg
[09:46] <kwwii> :-)
[09:47] <kwwii> but with that I need to make the buttons not stick out so much
[09:47] <kwwii> make them look more like they are inside the glass
[09:51] <Viper550> But, the dark overlay kinda looks a bit...weird streaked inside the buttons
[09:52] <Viper550> That's why I used the white
[09:53] <Viper550> (updated) http://bay01.imagebay.com/bay.php?view=7518_glossoverlay.png
[09:55] <PingunZ> Wohoo, my edgy's look is finally done :) http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/39902155/
[09:58] <PingunZ> Comments are welcome.. Bah I stfu :)
[09:59] <Viper550> Awesome...
[09:59] <PingunZ> ty :)
[09:59] <PingunZ> I had a lot of work to make it look that way :)
[10:04] <Viper550> So kwwii, you like the new one?
[10:05] <kwwii> let me check it, one second
[10:07] <kwwii> hrm, it looks about the same as the last one
[10:08] <kwwii> the top part of my window deco is much lighter than the bottom
[10:08] <kwwii> not sure that I like that, sorry
[10:10] <Viper550> Wait, were there any changes to the actual color scheme? Also it's supposed to be like that, it's gloss!
[10:11] <kwwii>  yes, the color scheme was updated in knot3
[10:11] <kwwii> my point is that the effect is a bit too exagerated
[10:11] <kwwii> not bad or wrong, just too much for me
[10:12] <kwwii> then again, I have small screen on my test system
[10:12] <Viper550> Mine is 1280x1024, LCD
[10:12] <kwwii> I have a small but very good crt
[10:13] <Viper550> oh, 1024x768?
[10:13] <kwwii> yepp
[10:13] <PingunZ> Oh, I'm goin g for a 20.1 " 1600*1200 screen :)
[10:13] <kwwii> I will try it later on my big mac (when I can reboot into linux, working on cutting video now)
[10:13] <PingunZ> rofl @ big mac :)
[10:14] <Viper550> oh, no wonder! (think you could upload the new color scheme?)
[10:18] <Viper550> still there kwwii?
[10:19] <kwwii> yepp, just talking to my wife
[10:19] <Viper550> Some more adjustments... http://bay01.imagebay.com/bay.php?view=7519_glossoverlay.png
[10:20] <kwwii> Viper550: you'll find the new colorscheme in http://bootsplash.org/KnotImages_plus.tar.gz (among other things)
[10:31] <Viper550> Lookin' good
[10:36] <Viper550> Maybe I'll get some help from users...while you watch your blockbuster type video file