=== effraie [n=effraie@jem75-1-82-228-146-152.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === dborg_ [n=daniel@e182063084.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === huwshimi [n=huw@ppp111-57.lns1.hba1.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === Viper550 [n=Viper550@d57-121-167.home.cgocable.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [03:20] I saw that Kubuntu Edgy Knot 3 is looking good === KurtKraut [n=ktk@unaffiliated/kurtkraut] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === Who_ [n=jonny@88-111-45-99.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [05:15] troy_s: you there? [05:15] barely [05:16] i am stretching the limits of my imagination to attempt and integrate what sabdfl likes [05:16] into some form of a whole [05:16] thus far it feels impossible :) [05:16] what does sabdfl like? [05:16] did yopu see tyhe GDMs I did today? === Burgundavia [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [05:17] yep [05:17] he seemed to like the logo and glosss style a whgile back - I don't know if his mind has changed [05:17] he would hate them as a good guess [05:17] ...reasons? [05:17] well the main problem _even_ if we were to say try something as simple as [05:17] using the existing gdm [05:17] flipping the curve on the lsplash (existing) [05:18] and using the existing wallpaper from dapper (and fixing the god awful curve anomolies) [05:18] is to find a palette in there [05:18] (we have the source from the lsplash?) [05:18] and after having looked at about 1000000000 palettes over the past [05:18] there isn't one, all three use different colours [05:18] few months [05:18] yep [05:18] there isn't even one that comes close [05:18] there are many terrific palettes out there [05:18] but for example [05:18] the palette I _like_ is the current GDM one [05:18] the closest one i have found is [05:19] one out of j. krause's palette index [05:19] colour library [05:19] but it has a few shortcomings when compared to the existing work [05:19] grr...can you give me some idea of what about the recent GDMs sabdfl would hate - if he's gonna have final say then there is no point in me doing stuff he won't like... [05:20] further, i am pretty sure i can make something virtually identical to sabdfl's liking (aka leave gdm, twist lsplash (invert a curve so it matches folders at _least_) [05:20] basically, [05:20] he created the gdm [05:20] so it will stay [05:20] the _most_ we could hope for is to get a bloody palette in place in edgy [05:20] if i had to bet [05:20] but even then [05:20] even _with_ a professional palette [05:21] there is barely any way to build _anything_ into the mix that would be satisfactory to sabdfl. [05:21] my designs are so similar to his though, just with the style he chose ofr the Human icons applied... [05:21] which ... makes it tricky to do anything. [05:21] troy_s: does he know what he is actually looking for? [05:21] or is he waiting to be 'hit'? [05:21] i have no idea, but it isn't important. [05:22] i think the problem is that everyone re [05:22] _really_ underestimated our ponder phase [05:22] does he agree? [05:22] ultimately, sabdfl appears to 'like' small tidbits [05:22] but then frankensteining them together just doesn't work [05:22] so it would involve some level of synthisis [05:22] but he likes 'polish' [05:23] well polish [05:23] is a general cohesiveness by tweaking elements [05:23] given the sources to the three elements [05:23] i can tell you that there is _zero_ way that i could achieve that with existing work. [05:23] I have been considering developing all aspects of the designs I have been doing, an lsplash similar, etc - but I think you are suggesting there is no point, right? [05:24] troy_s: I know! they are just totally incompatible, and it looks crap [05:24] well [05:24] crap is a strong term [05:24] what we really need [05:24] is to STRICTLY adhere to the system [05:24] okay, it looks far inferior to the cohesiveness of SUSE and Fedora.... [05:24] and get STEP by step evaluation [05:24] yes [05:24] but that is fundamental design principles [05:25] very _simple_ principles [05:25] many, many reviews praised suse for being one of the first distros to 'lack duct tape' === Chipzz [i=chipzz@ace.ulyssis.student.kuleuven.be] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [05:25] Pingunz -- who is 14 years old [05:25] hi [05:25] hit the nail on the head with his estimation. [05:25] hi chipzz [05:25] with me who_? [05:25] troy_s: what estimation? [05:25] and even then, as with aesop's work, [05:25] there is _zero_ percent chance to come up with something that is acceptable to everyone [05:26] so those constants we just need to accept [05:26] brainstorming might help... [05:26] but now, we are left with the teetering edge of bloody time [05:26] troy_s: apparently not on the PinunZ front...and you may have to point me to aesop's work, or tell me what it looked like... [05:26] with very little helpful discussion along the path to build upon. [05:26] um... [05:26] aesop wrote a few fables... let me see if i can find the one [05:26] yea - I think what we need is more of the approval/guidance from sabdfl along the way, like you got from him part way through [05:27] ohhhh - I though you were talking about a member of the teram!! [05:27] hare and tortoise - I am familiar [05:28] where did /usr/share/pixmaps/grub/ubuntu-artwork.xpm.gz go? [05:28] http://home1.gte.net/deleyd/prose/aesop63.htm [05:28] uh in dapper chipzz [05:28] ? [05:28] http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_contents.pl?word=%2Fusr%2Fshare%2Fpixmaps%2Fgrub%2Fubuntu-artwork.xpm.gz&searchmode=searchfiles&case=insensitive&version=edgy&arch=i386 says it's in ubuntu-artwork [05:28] who_ even with sabdfl's guidance [05:28] troy_s: no, edgy [05:28] i just can't see anyone being exactly happy [05:28] but it is not [05:29] chipzz -- don't know. there was plenty discussion regarding pairing down all of the art / theme elements in edgy [05:29] to get some space back [05:29] and this breaks my grub setup [05:29] frank would probably be able to tell you quite off the top [05:29] troy_s: I don't care if I am personally happy with the work - that is what I do Blubuntu for - I want to see cohesivness and professioinality [05:29] yes the artwork package was split up [05:29] who_ exactly [05:29] but i fear that even with that modest goal [05:29] it is almost impossible to achieve strictly trying to appease sabdfl. [05:29] I know that, all the packages the new package depends on were installed [05:30] but no grub artwork :S [05:30] chipzz email frank [05:30] who_ you with me? [05:30] troy_s: should I file a bug report alternatively? [05:30] so here is the ultimate option: deal with completely discreet components that are completely frankensteined together (as with dapper for example) [05:30] chipzz start with frank [05:31] chipzz he is the aic and has bzr access to fix that issue [05:31] troy_s: email? [05:31] www.launchpad.net/people [05:31] troy_s: yes - I am becoming more sure that he either needs to: lead the group and guide us, or step back and let the person he chooses guide us and the direction [05:31] do a search for frank schoep [05:31] who_ well he will hire an art director [05:31] but [05:31] i don't think anyone will stick around too long [05:32] factually speaking... the fundamental elements are very contradicting to integrate into a whole. [05:32] I think if they get space it would be pretty rewarding to work with the team [05:32] i have tried _countless_ times to start at the gdm and work to a wallpaper [05:32] but it is damn impossible. [05:32] because coming from that gdm to a darker wallpaper [05:32] for example [05:32] the _only_ things that seemed to be even remotely positive [05:32] in terms of reception from him [05:32] that is exactly how I got to the swirls (which make a good wallpaper, imo and imgfo... we've been using it) [05:33] were two wallpapers that i knocked off attempting to use an identical palette from dapper [05:33] and even the godawful composition [05:33] which resulted in this obtuse looking thing that wasn't very ... good. ;) [05:33] alas, he seemed to gravitate to them... [05:33] largely _probably_ because of the subconscious similarity to what is already present. [05:34] lets see if i can dig up the comment on swirl. [05:34] yea...I'll put up something else I tried today [05:34] well if it is gdm, don't bother. [05:34] the only real way to get some element of change is to have someone with some credibility [05:35] step up and offer an insightful review of the ubuntu look [05:35] which probably won't happen [05:35] it is visual musac [05:35] lol [05:35] which is damn hard to design for when the framework for the musac is A) undefined B) all over the map C) subject to completely useless bikeshedding. [05:36] I think if Edgy isn't much better than Dapper then two things will happen) 1. the people of digg will wonder how a team that was producing lots of interesting work didn't get much of it in, and 2) some 'official' reviewers will point out the lack of coherence [05:36] especially considering that research shows you are to treat a positive comment as 10x that of a negative [05:36] both of which may carry some weight [05:36] hardly [05:37] you don't think cnet reviews that are not good will do anything? [05:37] laf [05:37] well... let knot3 die [05:37] basically, pull all of the work and revert to dapper [05:37] is about the best we can hope for [05:38] well... [05:38] again [05:38] cnet reviews are great, but the bottom line is that it doesn't matter who you are ultimately trying to appease [05:38] troy_s: can you be any more clear on which elements of the recent GDMs you think sabdfl won't like - they are like the JMAK ones that he said were great, they are like the icons he likes... [05:38] the structure is still missing [05:38] who_ all of them [05:39] troy_s: oh dear :P [05:39] if i were forced into a corner and _had_ to [05:39] estimate on the sabdfl aesthetic [05:39] i would say that [05:39] A) he is against buttons [05:39] B) he is pro monochromatic [05:40] anyways... i must jet. [05:46] troy_s, let me ask you something [05:46] troy_s, the Edgy's design should please the community or the sabdfl personal taste ? [05:46] kurtkraut -- either would work for me. [05:46] but i fear ultimately neither. === Chipzz [i=chipzz@ace.ulyssis.student.kuleuven.be] has left #ubuntu-artwork [] === KurtKraut [n=ktk@unaffiliated/kurtkraut] has left #ubuntu-artwork ["Leaving"] === klepas [n=klepas@203-213-31-142.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === klepas is now known as klepas_z === klepas_z is now known as klepas_a === patbam [n=pat@c-68-33-250-73.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === msikma [n=msikma@s55933ad4.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === DrMegahertz [n=drmegahe@h160n1c1o864.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === andreasn [n=andreas@h151n2fls33o839.telia.com] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === klepas_a is now known as klepas === effraie [n=effraie@jem75-1-82-228-146-152.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === Seveas [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === dborg [n=daniel@e182063084.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === effraie [n=effraie@jem75-1-82-228-146-152.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === effraie [n=effraie@jem75-1-82-228-146-152.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === PingunZ [n=kristof@196.6-136-217.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === nysosym [n=nysosym@p54B7BE3E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [01:32] hi there [01:32] any icon devs for edgy here? === kwwii_ [n=kwwii@p54956675.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [01:33] nysosym: hm, kind of [01:33] hi kwwii_ :) [01:33] nysosym: I have nothing with human to to, but I do stuff on tango and tangerine [01:33] nysosym: howdy [01:34] and g-i-t [01:34] andreasn: good to know, but i have a "problem" with human icons [01:35] nothing I can do then, sorry :( [01:35] nysosym: send an email to the list [01:37] kwwii: i will do that! :) === exs [n=exs@81-179-146-201.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === klepas [n=klepas@203-213-31-142.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === nysosym [n=nysosym@p54B7BE3E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #ubuntu-artwork [] === effraie [n=effraie@jem75-1-82-228-146-152.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === PingunZ [n=kristof@196.6-136-217.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === exs [n=exs@81-179-146-201.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === PingunZ [n=kristof@196.6-136-217.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === PingunZ [n=kristof@196.6-136-217.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === Viper550 [n=Viper550@d57-121-167.home.cgocable.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [04:31] I see we have some good comments on Knot 3 [04:31] Viper550: Where ? [04:32] https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Artwork/Incoming/Kubuntu-Edgy-Ideas-Feedback [04:34] My firefox totally crashes when I open that site, rofl [04:38] You use KDE? [04:41] Nowp, gnome-freak :) [04:41] So it doesn't matter actually.. I can read it but my firefox looks horrible while opening the site [04:41] I'll upload the picture of firefox ;) [04:42] http://bay01.imagebay.com/bay.php?view=7504_dualgradient.png kwwii, I made an even nicer new gradient! [04:43] http://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=crashffob2.png :) [04:43] Viper550: I am running to the store to get food for dinner, I will check it out when I get back, ok? [04:43] okay, you get your good eats and we'll deliberate later! === PingunZ [n=kristof@196.6-136-217.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === effraie s'absente pour sortir les poubelles [04:54] Sorting trash eh? [04:56] Viper550: found you :P [04:58] hi [04:59] I've decided to while I wait for Ubuntu Edgy to come out with my theme, to contribute to Kubuntu [05:00] :) === ryanakca pokes at his metabar theme... anybody feel like giving me their opinion on it? [05:00] What to change... what to keep, etc [05:00] You wanna try out my Crystal Overlay? [05:01] p.s. Metabar whacking up APT is what caused me to switch to FC5 [05:01] now that kubuntu is blueish purple... that mean's I'll have to change it though... [05:01] Viper550: crystal overlay... for... [05:01] Viper550: scuse me, i though i was on an other chan [05:01] The window border [05:02] ah, in kubuntu? [05:02] yeah [05:02] or ubuntu? [05:02] good, kubuntu, link? [05:02] http://bay01.imagebay.com/bay.php?view=7504_dualgradient.png [05:03] Am I supposed to see anything? [05:03] PingunZ: Uslab=instant win [05:03] It's transparent PNG [05:03] All I see is a blue background with a blue box [05:03] ah [05:03] How do I test it? [05:04] Save it somewhere, go to System Settings/Control Center [05:04] Go to Window Decorations, select Crystal, and go to the Overlay tab === ryanakca twiddles while kcontrol opens up on his uber slow box [05:05] yes, there [05:05] how uber slow is it? [05:05] Active window? or Inactive Window [05:06] Viper550: takes about 10 seconds for kcontrol to load... [05:06] Select userdefined, and use the fileselector to select your saved file ON BOTH SIDES [05:06] (and I meant, how much memory do you have and such/such) [05:06] but then take into consideration that this is my Server & Desktop box... [05:06] Sysinfo for 'rkavanagh': Linux 2.6.17-7-386 running KDE 3.5.4, CPU: Pentium III (Coppermine) at 996 MHz (1995 bogomips), HD: 38/186GB, RAM: 370/375MB, 160 proc's, 1.17d up [05:07] oh, mine, pretty close to that, Athlon TB, 2.6, KDE 3.5.3, 256 mb ram [05:07] I have apache + mysql + (too many apps to list) [05:07] I'm not a server at least, takes about 3-5 seconds [05:08] If I killed some of them it would run much faster... and if I ran swapoff on my swap.. *gulp*... that's what's keeping it going... since 370/375mb of my ram is being used... [05:09] oooh, I like [05:10] Nice? I'm waiting for kwwii's opinion [05:11] Viper550: PingunZ: Uslab=instant win -> ?? [05:12] Uslab=my mod of the Slab panel from SLED 10 to be more optimized for Ubuntu [05:12] very [05:12] brb, I'm going to go compare with default settings... [05:12] I still have the purple windecs for some reason... === kofot [n=christof@81-225-188-103-o285.telia.com] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [05:12] Viper550: I hacked slab too :) [05:12] I'll post you a screenie :) [05:12] Oh wait, you are the Gslab guy right? [05:13] http://ubuntuforums.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=3522&cat=500&ppuser=37394 [05:13] Viper550: That's darkmatter :) [05:13] nice, still! [05:13] Thanks [05:13] how does yours look like ? [05:14] Oooh, Compiz...if only my Linux computer were powerful...my Main Windows computer can do Compiz (off that Live CD) [05:14] Eek, I haven't used windows in a few months :) [05:14] My Linux compy is dual-boot, XP and FC5 [05:15] It's not user-friendly enough for me -> Windows :) [05:16] I'm also switching my friend to Dapper today, I hope she likes the brown... [05:17] Viper550: YOu're in the art team .. make her desky look nice :) [05:17] I might give her a preview of Tropic [05:18] Viper550: I'm still waiting for a Usplab screenshot ;) [05:18] Show her some teams and then make her desktop look like it ;) [05:19] Uslab isn't much, it just changes the icon and removes the integrating with Zen Updater [05:20] Screenie, screenie :) [05:20] Or you could send the source .. [05:21] I'm not that much of a slab fan, it's not visually different, it's just what you have but without the mods to the actual menu === ryanakca [n=ryan@unaffiliated/ryanakca] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [05:22] And ryanacka, I have some other destined artwork that you can try, a new panel background! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Kubuntu-Edgy-Ideas?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=glosspanel_kubuntu.jpg [05:24] *cough* [05:24] enough system crashes for the day :) [05:24] http://ubuntuforums.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=2297 [05:25] What a sweet wallpaper ! [05:26] yeah === detgar [n=christof@81-225-188-103-o285.telia.com] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === exs [n=exs@81-179-146-201.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === ryanakca [n=ryan@unaffiliated/ryanakca] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === klepas is now known as klepas_Zzz === Seveas [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === exs [n=exs@81-179-146-201.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [08:37] Hey, I'm trying to edit my gtk theme :) What's the name of gnome-panel ? [08:39] I'm using the Murrina engine btw [08:39] PingunZ did ryanakca do the stone with the ubuntu logo imprinted on it? [08:40] troy_s: What do you mean ? [08:40] http://ubuntuforums.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=2297 --> This wall ? [08:40] troy_s: no... === Viper550 [n=Viper550@d57-121-167.home.cgocable.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [09:20] Everyone's still here I see [09:22] kwwii, you tried out my overlay? [09:26] Viper550: doing so now [09:26] Okay... [09:28] Viper550: I do not like that the gradient ends at the bottom with a lighter color than the rest of the window frame, it looks like it is not part of it [09:28] You mean the gloss? [09:29] yepp...I made like 20 different ones, and although some of them look awesome, the make the title bar stand out from the rest of the frame [09:30] one second, I will show you [09:30] Hmm, maybe I only need the top section... [09:32] http://bootsplash.org/windowdecotest2.png [09:32] that about fits to your panel background [09:32] but then I would have to chang the buttons [09:32] 403'd [09:33] oops [09:33] ok, try again [09:33] I remember that overlay [09:33] that is in my screenshots [09:34] perhaps I should work on the buttons, but people kinda liked the effect, so I would hate to change things around now [09:34] perhaps we could try it though [09:35] Just let me upload this improved version I made [09:36] http://bay01.imagebay.com/bay.php?view=7516_glossoverlay.png [09:36] can you point me to your panel bg pic again? I lost it somewhere [09:36] This one works alot better because it only skins the top, and it still gives the "doublegloss" effect on the buttons [09:37] http://bay01.imagebay.com/bay.php?view=7517_glosspanel_kubuntu.jpg [09:40] I actually kinda like the effect that your buttons have with an overlay of gloss, looks unique and fresh [09:40] boah, something is totally broken on my edgy [09:40] it cannot show any panel bg pics without messing things up [09:40] uh oh, what happen? did someone set us up the bomb? [09:40] Well, it was YOUR choice to use alpha software! [09:41] ;-) [09:41] no, it is my job [09:42] I could make you a screenshot, I have different icons and wallpaper but it's close [09:42] I got it working again [09:42] had to restart kicker [09:43] oh, never mind [09:44] I think that that last version is way too light on top [09:44] but the panel bg is right on [09:44] perhaps we could use a window gradient like this [09:44] have to see what people think [09:45] I can adjust the overlay again === Viper550 goes experimenting [09:46] http://bootsplash.org/windowdecotest2.png in the window deco overlays and http://bootsplash.org/glosspanel_kubuntu.jpg for the panel bg looks best to me [09:46] yes,that is your panelbg [09:46] :-) [09:47] but with that I need to make the buttons not stick out so much [09:47] make them look more like they are inside the glass [09:51] But, the dark overlay kinda looks a bit...weird streaked inside the buttons [09:52] That's why I used the white [09:53] (updated) http://bay01.imagebay.com/bay.php?view=7518_glossoverlay.png [09:55] Wohoo, my edgy's look is finally done :) http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/39902155/ [09:58] Comments are welcome.. Bah I stfu :) [09:59] Awesome... [09:59] ty :) [09:59] I had a lot of work to make it look that way :) [10:04] So kwwii, you like the new one? [10:05] let me check it, one second [10:07] hrm, it looks about the same as the last one [10:08] the top part of my window deco is much lighter than the bottom [10:08] not sure that I like that, sorry [10:10] Wait, were there any changes to the actual color scheme? Also it's supposed to be like that, it's gloss! [10:11] yes, the color scheme was updated in knot3 [10:11] my point is that the effect is a bit too exagerated [10:11] not bad or wrong, just too much for me [10:12] then again, I have small screen on my test system [10:12] Mine is 1280x1024, LCD [10:12] I have a small but very good crt [10:13] oh, 1024x768? [10:13] yepp [10:13] Oh, I'm goin g for a 20.1 " 1600*1200 screen :) [10:13] I will try it later on my big mac (when I can reboot into linux, working on cutting video now) [10:13] rofl @ big mac :) [10:14] oh, no wonder! (think you could upload the new color scheme?) [10:18] still there kwwii? [10:19] yepp, just talking to my wife [10:19] Some more adjustments... http://bay01.imagebay.com/bay.php?view=7519_glossoverlay.png [10:20] Viper550: you'll find the new colorscheme in http://bootsplash.org/KnotImages_plus.tar.gz (among other things) === kwwii watches a film, so I am semi-afk [10:31] Lookin' good [10:36] Maybe I'll get some help from users...while you watch your blockbuster type video file === Viper550 [n=Viper550@d57-121-167.home.cgocable.net] has left #ubuntu-artwork ["Just]