[12:09] <micahcowan> The post install also seems to do a series of chmods on score files that go in /var/games.
[12:15] <LaserJock> it looks to me like gnome-games doesn't do any chmoding on files in /usr/share/
[12:15] <LaserJock> which is what dh_fixperms will change
[12:15] <micahcowan> This is true: it chmods /usr/games and /var/games files.
[12:16] <micahcowan> still, note the /methods/ it uses for permissions: both an explicit rule, and in postinstall.
[12:16] <LaserJock> yeah
[12:17] <micahcowan> I can't really think of a more elegant way to do that: debhelper isn't actually meant to handle every situation, just the common ones, right? So I don't get whta's wrong with simply supplementing its behavior with more explicit commands... do you think chmod in rules might fly?
[12:17] <LaserJock> well, I know it is used
[12:17] <micahcowan> ^_^
[12:17] <LaserJock> I'm just a little concern about *where* I'm putting it
[12:17] <LaserJock> I've seen it in the install: rule
[12:18] <micahcowan> Is there more detailed documentation about debhelper besides the manpages and maint-guide?
[12:18] <LaserJock> well, I'll just put it after dh_fixperms and see if it works and then float that by Kamion
[12:19] <micahcowan> yeah, and I'd get more suggestions from him this time if he doesn't like it. Something besides dpkg-statoverride... or an explanation as to why that's better :p
[12:26] <Q-FUNK> could someone sync 'planner' from debian?
[12:26] <Q-FUNK> the build failure reported in ubuntu was fixed in debian ages ago.
[12:26] <Fujitsu> I'll file a request to have it synced.
[12:26] <Q-FUNK> thanks :)
[12:26] <Fujitsu> (after checking it does actually build)
[12:26] <LaserJock> Q-FUNK: is it a new upstream?
[12:27] <Q-FUNK> nope
[12:27] <slomo> Fujitsu: it's in main btw
[12:27] <Q-FUNK> we've had 0.14 for ages
[12:27] <Fujitsu> Darn.
[12:27] <LaserJock> ah, but we have 0.13
[12:27] <Q-FUNK> bulding broke after the new python policy and then was fixed
[12:28] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: just find a core-dev to convince mdz/kamion of the need for UVF exception :)
[12:28] <Fujitsu> Are there any major bug fixes in 0.14?
[12:28] <ajmitch> no
[12:28] <Q-FUNK> yes
[12:28] <ajmitch> no UVF exception required at all
[12:28] <ajmitch>    planner | 0.13-4ubuntu2 | http://apt-proxy edgy/main Packages
[12:28] <ajmitch>    planner |     0.14-6 | http://apt-proxy edgy/main Sources
[12:28] <LaserJock> ah
[12:28] <ajmitch> we already have 0.14 source :)
[12:28] <Fujitsu> Aha.
[12:28] <LaserJock> good catch ajmitch
[12:28] <Fujitsu> Just a UniverseFreeze one.
[12:28] <Q-FUNK> last time a build was attempted was in june
[12:28] <Q-FUNK> so much for manual syncs...
[12:29] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: it's still a Main package
[12:29] <Fujitsu> It is, yes.
[12:29] <Q-FUNK> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+source/planner
[12:29] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: get a core dev to ACK the sync then
[12:29] <Fujitsu> ajmitch, obviously.
[12:30] <ajmitch> well, once the source is fetched.. :)
[12:30] <Q-FUNK> dget
[12:30] <ajmitch> Q-FUNK: I prefer apt-get
[12:30] <ajmitch> since I have sid :)
[12:30] <Q-FUNK> ah :)
[12:31] <Fujitsu> Building...
[12:31] <Fujitsu> Hrm. My changelog parser is dodgy.
[12:31] <Fujitsu> It only gave me the last entry of the new ones.
[12:31] <LaserJock> hmm, interesting build log
[12:34] <ajmitch> Q-FUNK: ah yes, I recall seeing your blog entries on planet debian :)
[12:36] <Q-FUNK> :)
[12:38] <ajmitch> hm
[12:39] <ajmitch> seems like an international link has gone down in NZ again :)
[12:39] <Q-FUNK> hm?!
[12:39] <Fujitsu> And planner actually builds fine this time. That's nice.
[12:39] <ajmitch> just the usual state of internet connectivity in NZ
[12:39] <ajmitch> someone tripped over a cable or something
[12:39] <Fujitsu> Do I have to get any special UniverseFreeze exception or anything? Or just a core-dev to ack it?
[12:39] <Q-FUNK> Fujitsu: 0.14-10 ?
[12:39] <Fujitsu> Q-FUNK, yes.
[12:39] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: it's in main, why are you talking about UniverseFreeze?
[12:40] <Q-FUNK> yup.  it should.
[12:40] <Fujitsu> Oops.
[12:40] <Fujitsu> FeatureFreeze.
[12:40] <ajmitch> it's only a debian revision, too
[12:40] <Fujitsu> ajmitch, noted, but I believe FeatureFreeze covers that...
[12:40] <LaserJock> nope
[12:40] <Q-FUNK> ajmitch: ah.  do sheeps eat the dark fiber cables? ;)
[12:40] <Fujitsu> Q-FUNK, hahaha.
[12:41] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: FF is for new packages
[12:41] <ajmitch> Q-FUNK: tends to be rats :)
[12:41] <ajmitch> at least that's the excuse we had last year :)
[12:41] <Fujitsu> Ah, OK.
[12:41] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: I would ack it if I could build & check it :)
[12:42] <AnAnt> does subscription to ubuntu-devel mailing list require a moderator approval ?
[12:42] <ajmitch> AnAnt: no
[12:42] <AnAnt> ajmitch: wierd, why aint I getting a confirmation mail then ?
[12:42] <Q-FUNK> gaim-irchelper could probably be synced against the one in experimental, which has the same dependency thightening for gaim 2.0b3
[12:42] <LaserJock> AnAnt: might take a while
[12:43] <AnAnt> k
[12:43] <AnAnt> thanks
[12:49] <rmjb_> hi
[12:50] <Fujitsu> Hi.
[12:50] <rmjb_> do you all have pmplib in the repos?
[12:50] <rmjb_> http://pmplib.sourceforge.net/index.html
[12:50] <rmjb_> I checked but couldn't find it
[12:51] <rmjb_> and my attempts to compile it get errors since the dependencies are listed on the site or the INSTALL or README files
[12:54] <LaserJock> argg, does evo mail and evo calendering have 2 different .desktop files?
[12:55] <ajmitch> LaserJock: probably
[12:57] <DarkMageZ> rmjb, i'll give compiling it a shot for ya
[12:58] <Q-FUNK> arf.  I really should get some sleep
[12:58] <Q-FUNK> cya guys!
[12:58] <rmjb> thanks
[12:59] <rmjb> so you guys, The Masters of the Universe, see programs/libraries like this pmplib, and package it up for Ubuntu, and maintain the packages as new versions are released?
[12:59] <rmjb> is that how it works?
[01:00] <LaserJock> well, mostly we maintain differences between Ubuntu and Debian
[01:00] <LaserJock> that is our primary goal
[01:00] <LaserJock> so if a new package is introduced into Ubuntu Universe then yes we try to maintain that
[01:01] <rmjb> so if there's a package in debian, an Ubuntu user can use that?
[01:01] <LaserJock> but better is to find somebody to maintain it in Debian
[01:01] <LaserJock> yes, our packages come from Debian
[01:01] <LaserJock> we only modify if we need to
[01:05] <rmjb> so to become a motu you have to be familiar with the debian packages and process?
[01:05] <LaserJock> yes
[01:06] <rmjb> oh, slightly higher bar to enter than I thought
[01:06] <LaserJock> it's not too bad
[01:06] <zul> its not like bootcamp
[01:07] <LaserJock> it's just that Ubuntu uses the same packaging policy (basically) as Debian
[01:07] <Fujitsu> It's not too bad, though I'm not a MOTU yet.
[01:07] <LaserJock> so you need to learn how to create packages that conform to the Debian Policy
[01:07] <rmjb> ok
[01:08] <LaserJock> and you should at least have a general idea of how things work in Debian so when you need to interact with them you know what to do
[01:08] <LaserJock> but that's a part of the learning process
[01:08] <rmjb> are there more sessions planned for the #motu-school?
[01:08] <ajmitch> eventually :)
[01:09] <DarkMageZ> rmjb, pmplib depends on libmozjs-dev which doesn't appear to exist in ubuntu
[01:10] <rmjb> you get that error on configure or make?
[01:10] <DarkMageZ> on the dependency check from pbuilder
[01:11] <rmjb> on configure I get a warning about a javascript library not installed, it seems it needs the spidermonkey library which shows up in my synaptic
[01:11] <rmjb> but that's just a warning
[01:11] <ajmitch> DarkMageZ: part of xulrunner in sid
[01:12] <DarkMageZ> ajmitch, if i change that dependency to firefox-dev would that be ok?
[01:12] <rmjb> i installed libsmjs-dev
[01:12] <ajmitch> DarkMageZ: it may work :)
[01:12] <DarkMageZ> hmm, ok, i'll change that depend to libsmjs-dev then
[01:13] <rmjb> later on I had to install libvorbis-dev on a error during the compile
[01:13] <rmjb> that did not indicate itself during the configure
[01:13] <DarkMageZ> libvorbis-dev is listed 
[01:13] <rmjb> where are you seeing this list of dependencies?
[01:15] <DarkMageZ> rmjb, in the control file in the debian folder.
[01:16] <rmjb> hmm... my source package from sf.net doesn't have a debian folder... I guess that's why you guys are the Masters of the Univers
[01:16] <DarkMageZ> which doesn't exist in the 0.12 source package. i pulled pmplib from svn
[01:16] <rmjb> oh
[01:17] <DarkMageZ> but i pulled the 0.12 branch. pmplib doesn't seem to be an active project, last change was 4 weeks ago
[01:17] <rmjb> that's okay, it worked under windows
[01:18] <rmjb> just need the same functionality under linux for my mp3 player
[01:22] <rmjb> hey, looks like it worked! I did a make clean distclean and created a separate pmplib-build directory and did everything in there and it worked
[01:23] <rmjb> now the best way to install this is with checkinstall right?
[01:23] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: ACKed bug 61174 for you
[01:23] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 61174 in planner "Please sync planner 0.14-10 (main) from Debian Sid (main)" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61174
[01:25] <DarkMageZ> rmjb, checkinstall is better than make install, but there are alot better ways
[01:26] <Fujitsu> Thanks, ajmitch.
[01:26] <rmjb> what's a better way?
[01:27] <DarkMageZ> rmjb, http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html
[01:27] <rmjb> thanks
[01:37] <DarkMageZ> anyone know what i should expect to break if i backport firefox 2 from edgy to dapper?
[01:37] <crimsun> "a lot".
[01:38] <Fujitsu> Yes, a LOT.
[01:38] <DarkMageZ> like? i've been running it for a week
[01:38] <zul> oooh...we have a masochist in our midst
[01:38] <Fujitsu> yelp will break, anything else that uses gecko will break...
[01:38] <DarkMageZ> i'll go test yelp
[01:39] <rmjb> one question, do you guys recommend using aptitude or actively recommend against it?
[01:39] <tseng> apt-cache rdepends firefox
[01:39] <tseng> rmjb: use whatever you want
[01:39] <rmjb> cool
[01:39] <tseng> DarkMageZ: you will break about 180 things
[01:39] <tseng> DarkMageZ: +/- a few
[01:40] <DarkMageZ> ok, so add/remove still works, yelp still works
[01:40] <DarkMageZ> i'll test openoffice, that's listed =D
[01:40] <Fujitsu> yelp still works!?
[01:40] <DarkMageZ> mmhmm, i'll upload the packages to my repo if u wanna see for yourself
[01:40] <Fujitsu> I'm running edgy :P
[01:41] <DarkMageZ> ah
[01:41] <DarkMageZ> next i'm thinking of trying trunk, hopefully that will break yelp 
[01:42] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: yelp doesn't work for you?
[01:42] <Fujitsu> LaserJock, it should break in a Gecko change like that, shouldn't it?
[01:43] <LaserJock> like what?
[01:43] <LaserJock> and I have no idea
[01:43] <Fujitsu> Like Firefox 2 being dropped into Dapper?
[01:43] <LaserJock> well, I guess it would depend on "dropped into"
[01:43] <zul> heh...i think you are going to give iwj a conniption if someone did that
[01:45] <DarkMageZ> ok, i'm uploading the firefox 2.0b2 packages for dapper to my repo now. so any non-believers can try for themselfs 
[01:46] <crimsun> the more unofficial crackful package we have circulating, the bigger our headache. Please request official backports instead.
[01:47] <ajmitch> especially when we have to support them
[01:47] <ajmitch> eg the number of mono issues I've had with broken dbus backports
[01:48] <tseng> DarkMageZ: no offence but you would do well to heed the advice for people who have been doing this for years rather than writing us off as "non-believers"
[01:51] <tritium> Hey LaserJock.
[01:51] <Fujitsu> Morning, tritium.
[01:51] <LaserJock> hi tritium!
[01:51] <tritium> Hi Fujitsu.
[01:51] <LaserJock> argg, has anybody done a binary litian override?
[01:51] <tritium> LaserJock: saw your wondering in my away log
[01:51] <LaserJock> mhm
[01:52] <tritium> I've been up to many things, including most recently running a couple 1/2 marathons, and being in the ER for kidney stones
[01:52] <LaserJock> yikes
[01:52] <tritium> Yeah, no fun...
[01:52] <ajmitch> hey tritium
[01:53] <tritium> hey ajmitch
[01:53] <Fujitsu> Ow.
[01:54] <tritium> I'm on vicodin for the pain, so I'm managing
[01:54] <ajmitch> still not nice
[01:54] <tritium> How are you all?
[01:54] <LaserJock> busy busy busy :-)
[01:55] <tritium> :)
[01:56] <LaserJock> oh nifty
[01:56] <Fujitsu> It explodes!
[01:59] <Fujitsu> #if (PY_VERSION_HEX >= 0x02050000)
[01:59] <Fujitsu> What's that meant to check?
[01:59] <Fujitsu> Is that >= 2.5?
[01:59] <ajmitch> if python >= 2.5
[01:59] <Fujitsu> OK.
[02:00] <ajmitch> it fails when building?
[02:00] <Fujitsu> It's that section which explodes...
[02:00] <Fujitsu> They use an undefined variable in there!
[02:00] <ajmitch> more fun for you to fix
[02:00] <Fujitsu> Yup.
[02:00] <Fujitsu> Now, said variable is `op', there's an `o' and `obj' around...
[02:01] <Fujitsu> Looks like it should be o...
[02:01] <Fujitsu> See ya!
[02:02] <Fujitsu> Bye, Laser_away.
[02:05] <Laser_away> I'll bbl
[02:31] <jcape> bzflag
[02:34] <minghua> hello everyone
[02:39] <Fujitsu> Hi, minghua.
[02:40] <crimsun> argh, whoever keeps assigning stuff to ubuntu-universe-sponsors needs to stop doing it if he's not going to fill in the outstanding information from the sync protocol
[02:41] <Fujitsu> Who is it?
[02:41] <crimsun> https://launchpad.net/people/kalon33
[02:43] <Fujitsu> He's a /member/ of ubuntu-universe-sponsors!?
[02:43] <crimsun> apparently there are quite a few non-MOTU who are members of said team
[02:44] <Fujitsu> That's a little odd.
[02:44] <crimsun> For coverage's sake, I'm fine with that if they're also checking the actual sync requests.
[02:44] <Fujitsu> A fix for Python 2.5 was committed...
[02:44] <Fujitsu> But it seems to break it even more.
[02:45] <Fujitsu> Terrific.
[02:47] <minghua> Edgy is still going to have python 2.4 as default, isn't it?
[02:49] <crimsun> yes
[02:49] <crimsun> the supported versions are 2.4 and 2.5
[02:50] <minghua> I saw Fujitsu's message about python-2.5 breaking Debian's python-numpy
[02:51] <minghua> I suppose the problem is that edgy can't build python-numpy from Debian because edgy is building python-2.5 modules?
[02:53] <crimsun> haven't looked yet, still trudging through these u-u-s source packages
[02:53] <minghua> Fujitsu: would it possible to just build 2.4 modules?
[02:57] <ajmitch> crimsun: the team ought to be moderated
[02:58] <ajmitch> I'll see if I can change it to be so
[02:58] <ajmitch> ok, changed to moderated, any MOTUs willing to join should poke myself or hobbsee :)
[02:58] <LaserJock> hmm
[02:59] <ajmitch> I only spot 3 non-MOTUs on there
[02:59] <LaserJock> I just joined
[02:59] <LaserJock> what the heck happened there?
[03:00] <LaserJock> isn't that supposed to be MOTUs who are  willing to sponsor non-MOTUs?
[03:00] <crimsun> that was my original thought, too
[03:00] <ajmitch> yes
[03:00] <ajmitch> there's also some duplication with motureviewers
[03:01] <ajmitch> which leads to confusion, etc
[03:01] <LaserJock> well, I think it came from ubuntu-sponsors
[03:01] <LaserJock> for Main
[03:01] <ajmitch> yes, pitti set them both up iirc
[03:01] <LaserJock> I would personally consider motureviewers==ubuntu-universe-sponsors
[03:01] <reggaemanu> erf, latest ffmpeg/libavcodec/libavformat has broken mplayer
[03:01] <ajmitch> I wonder if we can merge teams :)
[03:02] <ajmitch> https://launchpad.net/people/motureviewers/+assignedbugs
[03:02] <ajmitch> 30 assigned, several are stale
[03:02] <LaserJock> yeah
[03:02] <ajmitch> it's been awhile since I went through the list
[03:02] <LaserJock> not really
[03:02] <LaserJock> but I wish I had time for these things
[03:03] <ajmitch> & I had a couple to upload which I should get onto (libcm, gnucash)
[03:03] <crimsun> reggaemanu: how?
[03:03] <reggaemanu> crimsun, mplayer: symbol lookup error: mplayer: undefined symbol: a52_resample
[03:03] <reggaemanu> it's now impossible to play any movie
[03:03] <LaserJock> reggaemanu: how new is that mplayer?
[03:04] <reggaemanu> hum, the package in edgy is the last version (pre8)
[03:04] <crimsun> reggaemanu: that's -from -2 and is completely intentional
[03:04] <reggaemanu> but since the ffmpeg/libavcodec/libavformat update around one hour ago it's broken
[03:04] <LaserJock> earlier today slomo was taking with a mplayer dev about quite a few changes to the mplayer package
[03:05] <LaserJock> so I wonder if that's a part of it
[03:05] <Nafallo> me, slomo and siretart have been talking quite a while with two mplayer devs today.
[03:05] <crimsun> mplayer simply needs liba52-0.7.4-dev added as a build-dependency
[03:06] <LaserJock> darn, I bet Kamion is asleep
[03:06] <slomo> crimsun: no
[03:06] <reggaemanu> hum ok, so the package should be updated soon
[03:06] <LaserJock> or shood be at least
[03:06] <crimsun> slomo: what's the issue, then?
[03:07] <slomo> crimsun: it's not that easy unfortunately ;)
[03:07] <crimsun> another abi fling?
[03:07] <slomo> symbol conflicts because of mplayer's bundled liba52 and the one that libavcodec opens
[03:07] <crimsun> ah, _excellent_
[03:07] <slomo> and mplayer doesn't want our liba52
[03:07] <crimsun> we <3 ffmpeg
[03:07] <slomo> but i'll care for this :)
[03:08] <reggaemanu> then, i will use totem -_-' unfortunally i've updated between two movies ^^
[03:09] <reggaemanu> slomo, thanks for the informations
[03:10] <slomo> reggaemanu: could be worse... you could've uploaded it while watching one movie and restart it in the middle ;)
[03:14] <Nafallo> bddebian: hello :-)
[03:14] <bddebian> Heya Nafallo and gang :-)
[03:14] <ajmitch> hello bddebian
[03:14] <Nafallo> bddebian: what's up? :-)
[03:14] <bddebian> Hi ajmitch
[03:15] <bddebian> Nafallo: Doing a little work from home and getting ready to review some packages hopefully.  You?
[03:15] <crimsun> bddebian's about to fix all the universe+multiverse bugs, hooray!
[03:15] <ajmitch> crimsun: he's about to fix up everything on revu, too
[03:15] <bddebian> I can't fix anything, you know that :-)
[03:15] <crimsun> wow
[03:15] <Nafallo> bddebian: pondering if bed or LP bugs are more important ;-)
[03:16] <bddebian> Nafallo: LP bugs, you know that ;-P
[03:16] <Nafallo> bddebian: ;-). was not _that_ much to do for MOTU-IM :-)
[03:20] <Nafallo> oh. gajim built on x86_64 :-)
[03:20] <bddebian> Nafallo: Well I can give you another list if you like :-)
[03:20] <Nafallo> bddebian: :-P
[03:21] <Nafallo> bddebian: I should probably read my e-mail and then go to bed. it's 3:21 here :-P
[03:22] <bddebian> Eeks, gnight man
[03:22] <Nafallo> hehe
[03:24] <ajmitch> bddebian: cleared up REVU yet?
[03:24] <bddebian> Oh yeah, I'm done
[03:24] <ajmitch> sweet, uploaded the advocated packages?
[03:26] <bddebian> Hmm, maybe I'm doing anything tonight..
[03:28] <ajmitch> go for it!
[03:29] <ajmitch> bddebian: you still haven't given your opinion of krb5-auth-dialog
[03:29] <bddebian> ajmitch: I was worried my machine was dead, but it was just a dead battery.. Whew
[03:37] <ajmitch> bddebian: you keep up better than I do
[03:38] <bddebian> ajmitch: Not with bugs man, I haven't done shit yet for Edgy wrt bugs :-(
[03:38] <ajmitch> the numbers lie
[03:39] <ajmitch> is that what you say?
[03:39] <bddebian> Yes
[03:39] <bddebian> Alot of my bug karma is from Sync requests
[03:39] <bddebian> Are these worth not uploading?  Seem innocuous to me..
[03:39] <bddebian> W: rrdweather; Long descriptions contains short description.
[03:39] <bddebian> W: rrdweather; File /usr/lib/rrdweather/db_update.sh contained in /usr/lib of Architecture: all package.
[03:40] <Nafallo> bddebian: are those our changes? otherwise bug debian and sync :-)
[03:41] <bddebian> Nafallo: No these are a REVU package
[03:42] <Nafallo> oh
[03:42] <bddebian> dead air... :)
[03:42] <minghua> bddebian: since rrdweather only builds an arch:all package, the second warning is probably upstream issue
[03:43] <minghua> I take that back
[03:43] <minghua> in debian/rules:
[03:43] <minghua> 	cp -a db_builder.sh $(CURDIR)/debian/rrdweather/usr/lib/rrdweather
[03:43] <minghua> 	cp -a db_update.sh $(CURDIR)/debian/rrdweather/usr/lib/rrdweather
[03:43] <minghua> 	cp -a weather.cgi  $(CURDIR)/debian/rrdweather/usr/lib/cgi-bin
[03:44] <minghua> I must admit I don't know what is the proper way to package cgi apps
[03:44] <bddebian> ajmitch: opinions?
[03:45] <bddebian> minghua: Me either :-(  Thanks btw
[03:46] <minghua> bddebian: you are welcome, I am just trying to help as much as I can without an edgy system :-)
[03:47] <ajmitch> 13
[03:47] <ajmitch> hm
[03:48] <bddebian> ajmitch: ?
[03:49] <ajmitch> bddebian: where did you get this error from?
[03:50] <bddebian> ajmitch: linda
[03:54] <bddebian> ajmitch: Think I need to worry about it?
[03:57] <ajmitch> sorry, working at the moment as well :)
[03:57] <bddebian> Hmm, I never trust linda on Dapper for some reason
[03:58] <ajmitch> blame StevenK?
[04:01] <bddebian> crimsun: Any thoughts from you, your highness? :-)
[04:03] <bddebian> la la la la laaa
[04:05] <bddebian> Heya Hobbsee
[04:06] <Hobbsee> hi bddebian
[04:08] <ajmitch> hello miss hobbs
[04:09] <Hobbsee> hey ajmitch
[04:10] <Toadstool> re
[04:10] <bddebian> wb Toadstool
[04:11] <Toadstool> huhu, rrdweather issues?
[04:12] <bddebian> Toadstool: Aye, have an opinion?
[04:12] <Toadstool> hmm, I should have tested the 2nd upload with lintian too...
[04:13] <Toadstool> lemme have a look
[04:18] <Toadstool> hmm? how come does/win15
[04:19] <Toadstool> ouch :)
[04:22] <Toadstool> bddebian: lintian is happy with the package, linda, well..., I don't care :p
[04:23] <bddebian> Toadstool: Fair enough for me :-)
[04:32] <bddebian> Fuck
[04:32] <bddebian> ajmitch: I just accidently archived krb5-auth-dialog
[04:32] <Hobbsee> bddebian: unarchive it?
[04:34] <ajmitch> bddebian: that's fine, it's obviously not worth having
[04:35] <bddebian> Hobbsee: Can I do that?
[04:35] <Hobbsee> bddebian: sure, go to the archived section, and hit "unarchive"
[04:36] <bddebian> Oh, duh
[04:41] <bddebian> crimsun: Where'd you go?
[04:42] <Toadstool> http://fullcoverage.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060914/hl_afp/afplifestylehealthalcohol <-- haha
[04:42] <Toadstool> (sorry but couldn't resist :p)
[04:43] <Deaigo> can i upload crap i used checkinstall for?
[04:43] <ajmitch> no
[04:43] <SwordedHobbsee> hah
[04:44] <Deaigo> thought so ;)
[04:44] <SwordedHobbsee> bddebian: now you be careful, else i'll make you WALK THE PLANK!
[04:44] <Deaigo> i was just instaling http://btg.berlios.de/ and thought it would be nice ot save others the pain in the ass process
[04:45] <ajmitch> it's just a recipe for more pain
[04:51] <Deaigo> is making a .deb package complex...?
[05:00] <ajmitch> very complex if people don't stick around for an answer...
[05:00] <SwordedHobbsee> heh
[05:01] <bddebian> Aye, that is potentially a problem :-)
[05:01] <ajmitch> bddebian: your verdict?
[05:01] <SwordedHobbsee> bddebian:
[05:02] <Fujitsu> minghua, I too think it might be a good idea to just build python2.4 modules, at least until upstream fixes it.
[05:02] <Fujitsu> Hey, SwordedHobbsee.
[05:02] <SwordedHobbsee> hi Fujitsu!
[05:03] <minghua> Fujitsu: glad that we agree :-)
[05:03] <Fujitsu> Yes, what's with motureviewers? Isn't it completely obsolete now?
[05:04] <SwordedHobbsee> it's the same thing as ubuntu-universe-sponsors i suspect
[05:04] <ajmitch> not while some people are still assigning bugs there
[05:04] <Fujitsu> SwordedHobbsee, it looks like it.
[05:04] <Fujitsu> Said people need to be informed of the new process.
[05:04] <ajmitch> it existed long before hobbsee's little team :)
[05:04] <SwordedHobbsee> true
[05:05] <SwordedHobbsee> besides, i didnt create it
[05:05] <SwordedHobbsee> oh?
[05:05] <SwordedHobbsee> heh, guess i am
[05:05] <SwordedHobbsee> i'm still authed
[05:05] <Fujitsu> Ooh!
[05:05] <Fujitsu> You changed your real name!
[05:06] <SwordedHobbsee> a couple of days ago, yeah
[05:06] <ajmitch> someone get me some caffeine
[05:07] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: not helpful
[05:07] <Hobbsee> awww...
[05:22] <jlkenyon2012> hey, this is where the universe maintainers hang out?
[05:23] <Fujitsu> jlkenyon2012, yes.
[05:23] <Hobbsee> yuep
[05:23] <Hobbsee> er, yep
[05:23] <jlkenyon2012> cool, I didn't get lost this time
[05:24] <jlkenyon2012> so if I were interested in making packages for distribution via apt, I would need the blessing of someone here
[05:25] <bddebian> apt does not create packages
[05:25] <Fujitsu> bddebian, distribution via apt.
[05:25] <bddebian> Oh hehe, I misread that
[05:26] <jlkenyon2012> yeah, although I do need to learn how to make packages first
[05:27] <jlkenyon2012> I am still torn between gentoo and ubuntu, and leaning towards gentoo just because portage has more of the obscure packages that I require at times... but with any open project, a failure remains only because the users allow it
[05:27] <bddebian> jlkenyon2012: So get them in the Ubuntu repositories :-)
[05:28] <jlkenyon2012> and that is not too difficult to do?
[05:29] <Fujitsu> jlkenyon2012, I've done it twice, so it's not too difficult, no.
[05:30] <LaserJock> jlkenyon2012: don't  you have some sysadmining to do? ;-)
[05:30] <jlkenyon2012> hey Jordan
[05:30] <jlkenyon2012> yeah... I but I usually stop sysadmining after about 7
[05:31] <bddebian> heh
[05:31] <jlkenyon2012> usually that is about when drinking begins, and I have found that the two don't mix well
[05:31] <bddebian> Bah, sysadmining gets better the more alcohol is infused :-)
[05:32] <LaserJock> bddebian: don't encourage him
[05:32] <ajmitch> bddebian: that explains a lot
[05:32] <LaserJock> I need him to keep my wiki alive :-)
[05:32] <bddebian> LaserJock: :-)
[05:32] <bddebian> ajmitch: What are you trying to say? ;-)
[05:32] <ajmitch> nothing.. nothing at all
[05:32] <LaserJock> bddebian: you know what he's saying
[05:33] <jlkenyon2012> hehehe... I've written some pretty inspired code while under the influence, but when my finances are at stake, I tend to err on the side of caution
[05:35] <LaserJock> jlkenyon2012: if you want to figure out how to package then check out the Ubuntu Packaging Guide
[05:36] <LaserJock> !packagingguide
[05:36] <ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
[05:36] <jlkenyon2012> so this topic asks "Have you Reviewed a package on REVU yet today?", what does mean? is REVU a means by which the community can verify the integrity of packages in the repositories? (speculating?)
[05:36] <jlkenyon2012> cool
[05:36] <LaserJock> it's a reviewing system
[05:36] <LaserJock> !revu
[05:36] <ubotu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
[05:37] <jlkenyon2012> this bot is pretty good
[05:37] <LaserJock> so basically, you create a source package and upload it to REVU
[05:37] <LaserJock> then MOTU review it and give feedback, etc.
[05:37] <LaserJock> if a MOTU is ok with it going into Universe they give it a vote
[05:37] <LaserJock> 2 votes and it's in
[05:38] <LaserJock> jlkenyon2012: oh, the bot's even better then that
[05:38] <LaserJock> !info ghemical edgy
[05:38] <ubotu> ghemical: A GNOME molecular modelling environment. In component universe, is optional. Version 2.01-2 (edgy), package size 1790 kB, installed size 3028 kB
[05:38] <ajmitch> ubugtu is better
[05:38] <LaserJock> mhm
[05:38] <ajmitch> bug 59166
[05:38] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 59166 in f-spot "Mono segfaults in dbus_pending_call_get_completed()" [Unknown,Rejected]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/59166
[05:39] <jlkenyon2012> zounds!
[05:39] <jlkenyon2012> now I am more interested in the bots than I am in the packaging process
[05:39] <ajmitch> oh dear
[05:39] <ajmitch> LaserJock: don't distract him with shiny things
[05:40] <nixternal> haha
[05:40] <jlkenyon2012> well, now that I have a place to start reading, I am gonna book mark it and get back to working on tomorrow's lesson plan
[05:40] <LaserJock> jlkenyon2012: what are you teaching?
[05:41] <jlkenyon2012> LaserJock: although this is somewhat unofficial, I am teaching an SP topic in programming languages over in SEM
[05:41] <jlkenyon2012> LaserJock: Tomorrow is MySQL
[05:42] <AnAnt> YourSQL ?
[05:42] <bddebian> heh
[05:42] <jlkenyon2012> something like that...
[05:42] <jlkenyon2012> OurSQL?
[05:42] <LaserJock> heh
[05:43] <bddebian> HerSQL
[05:43] <jlkenyon2012> ideally, it would be taught by one of the normal teachers, but the teacher I had for networks was stuck in the age of token ring and coax ethernet
[05:44] <jlkenyon2012> much to my dismay I had to apply some of that knowledge to the systems in the basement in chemistry :-(
[05:44] <ajmitch> ah, modern technology
[05:44] <ajmitch> that's scary
[05:44] <LaserJock> ajmitch: you don't want to know
[05:45] <bddebian> What, no arcnet?
[05:45] <LaserJock> jlkenyon2012: on one of the clusters?
[05:45] <LaserJock> bddebian: well, the morse code machine broke :/
[05:46] <bddebian> LaserJock: :)
[05:46] <jlkenyon2012> LaserJock: one of the old Sun machines interfaced with its TOF laser unit via AUI which fed into an AUI to Coax adapter, and fed Coax into the machine
[05:46] <ajmitch> jlkenyon2012: fragile?
[05:47] <jlkenyon2012> LaserJock: And that adapter was not set right, one of the little dipswitches was set wrong
[05:47] <LaserJock> oh jeeze
[05:47] <jlkenyon2012> I have never felt so confused by a network setup... when I flipped the "50 Ohm" switch and everything suddenly "just worked" I called it a miracle
[05:48] <ajmitch> heh
[05:48] <LaserJock> ah well
[05:49] <LaserJock> now we just need to take over the CIL
[05:50] <jlkenyon2012> that would be nice
[05:50] <jlkenyon2012> what do you think of them putting Dr. Woo in charge of that?
[05:50] <LaserJock> jlkenyon2012: you think lew would mind if we replaced all the NMR computers with Ubuntu boxen?
[05:50] <LaserJock> jlkenyon2012: really?
[05:51] <LaserJock> argg, I gotta go
[05:51] <jlkenyon2012> LaserJock: later
[05:51] <LaserJock> good night MOTU land
[05:51] <Fujitsu> With bug #58852, I think an archive person just needs to send it back to the buildds...
[05:51] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 58852 in kismet "Kismet in edgy still depends on ethereal-common " [Untriaged,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/58852
[05:51] <Fujitsu> Goodnight, LaserJock.
[05:51] <LaserJock> be nice to jlkenyon2012, he keeps my computers running
[06:48] <bddebian> Gnight folks
[06:48] <Fujitsu> 'night.
[06:51] <chillywilly> bddebian always runs off to bed ;P
[06:51] <chillywilly> I'll sleep when I'm dead
[07:16] <superm1> hey all - is it the end of REVU day, or would a MOTU be willing to fit in one more?
[07:18] <Hobbsee> superm1: where's the package?
[07:18] <superm1> the mythtv package I put on revu
[07:18] <superm1> its a diff from one I put up about a week ago
[07:18] <superm1> that was accepted
[07:18] <superm1> I changed two small things with it
[07:25] <Hobbsee> didnt imbrandon upload that?
[07:26] <superm1> he uploaded it to edgy
[07:26] <superm1> I uploaded it to revu
[07:26] <Hobbsee> true
[07:27] <superm1> I'm looking to become a MOTU myself, actually going to be in a community council meeting tomorrow to start the process, and then I can say that I personally uploaded some things :)
[07:27] <Fujitsu> superm1, the meeting is in 6.5 hours.
[07:27] <superm1> yea I know I need to get some rest.....
[07:28] <Fujitsu> Ah.
[07:28] <superm1> my roomate keeps telling me that too
[07:28] <Fujitsu> Good idea.
[07:28] <Fujitsu> Go to bed! :P
[07:28] <superm1> just finishing my wiki page ;)
[07:28] <Fujitsu> Yay :)
[07:28] <ajmitch> superm1: you have a consistent number & quality of contributions?
[07:29] <superm1> well I have recently started to contribute to REVU in the last week or two.  prior to this, its been a lot off record stuff.  I ran my own repo with packages for myth and such
[07:29] <superm1> well off record in the sense that I never pushed for them to be included
[07:30] <superm1> ajmitch: you can take a look at my wiki page as of now if you'd like to see what I have:
[07:30] <superm1> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/superm1
[08:27] <Kagou> hi
[09:13] <dholbach> good morning
[09:14] <Fujitsu> Evening.
[09:15] <imbrandon> heya dholbach
[09:15] <imbrandon> ello Fujitsu
[09:15] <Fujitsu> Hi imbrandon.
[09:16] <Hobbsee> hey dholbach, Fujitsu, imbrandon
[09:16] <dholbach> heya Hobbsee, hey imbrandon
[09:16] <Fujitsu> Hi Hobbsee.
[09:17] <dholbach> imbrandon: I didn't get telepathy-qt building - I'm not clever enough for the new kde world
[09:17] <dholbach> imbrandon: I hope andrunko will come to #kubuntu-devel and figure it out with you guys
[09:17] <dholbach> imbrandon: he's upstream for it and would love to see it in edgy
[09:17] <imbrandon> dholbach: sure ;)
[09:18] <imbrandon> dholbach: if you can point me to a website i can poke at it a bit too
[09:18] <dholbach> imbrandon: the packaging is in bzr on launchpad, the source is aaaaat: ...
[09:18] <imbrandon> kk
[09:20] <dholbach> https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/tapioca-voip/trunk/telepathy-qt (svn)
[09:20] <dholbach> i'm sure he'll show up on irc sooner or later
[09:20] <dholbach> and maybe he has another idea how to get it going :)
[09:20] <imbrandon> ok, sounds great ;)
[09:21] <imbrandon> bzr branch http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~telepathy/telepathy-qt/ubuntu
[09:21] <dholbach> it seems to be a matter of build-depends
[09:21] <imbrandon> err doh
[09:21] <dholbach> but i'm not sure
[09:21] <dholbach> D'oh?
[09:21] <imbrandon> dident alt+tab to the right window
[09:21] <dholbach> ahh :)
[09:23] <ajmitch> hey imbrandon, dholbach
[09:24] <imbrandon> heya ajmitch
[09:24] <ajmitch> how'd your revu day go? :)
[09:24] <dholbach> hey ajmitch
[09:25] <dholbach> it was quite ok, although I wished I'd have managed to do more
[09:25] <dholbach> how was yours?
[09:25] <dholbach> maybe we can do another one at the end of the week?
[09:25] <dholbach> matiu: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU is the process for getting packages included
[09:26] <dholbach> matiu: but for edgy we have to be quick... Sep 28th is UniverseFreeze
[09:26] <matiu> ooo
[09:26] <dholbach> and to be frank, we have a constant lack of reviewers :)
[09:26] <dholbach> I was just saying
[09:26] <dholbach> maybe we can do another one (REVU day) at the end of the week?
[09:26] <dholbach> :-)
[09:26] <imbrandon> dholbach: sounds good to me
[09:26] <dholbach> super
[09:27] <dholbach> friday?
[09:27] <imbrandon> friday ( anyday ) heh is good, maybe a revu weekend fri-sat too to catch the people that work durring the week
[09:27] <imbrandon> but i dont have that problem sooo.
[09:28] <imbrandon> a 48 hours one last pull before universe freeze
[09:28] <imbrandon> s/hours/hour
[09:30] <dholbach> yeah
[09:31] <ajmitch> dholbach: or we just keep reviewing as long as we can :)
[10:03] <imbrandon> dholbach: ping
[10:03] <dholbach> imbrandon: pong
[10:03] <imbrandon> ok got it building, there are a few more errors to work out
[10:03] <imbrandon> but the main thing is the build-deps
[10:03] <imbrandon> Build-Depends: cdbs, debhelper (>= 5), libqt4-core, cmake, qt4-dev-tools, libqt4-dev
[10:03] <dholbach> oh nice
[10:04] <imbrandon> ^^ needs to be that
[10:04] <dholbach> ok cool
[10:04] <dholbach> you see that I have no clue :)
[10:04] <ajmitch> heh
[10:04] <imbrandon> hehe well i had a bit of help from Riddell too ;)
[10:05] <ajmitch> dholbach: you'd be the last person we could say that about
[10:05] <dholbach> imbrandon, Riddell: thanks a lot
[10:06] <ajmitch> seems that changes in python-twisted have broken epyrun
[10:06] <imbrandon> dholbach: past that it looks to be an error in the svn code is all thats holding it up
[10:06] <ajmitch> which is unlikely since it hasn't had any changes for awhile
[10:06] <imbrandon> dholbach: one sec i'll pastebin for you to see
[10:08] <imbrandon> dholbach: looks like an error in the channel.h in svn , but the package attempts to build now ( with those build-deps ) http://pastebin.ca/175931
[10:09] <dholbach> hum
[10:14] <dholbach> I'll tell andrunko to look at it
[10:14] <dholbach> thanks for your efforts
[10:20] <imbrandon> dholbach: np, still messing with it too , it might be a qt-bus dep , i dunno without really knowing what all the code uses, i'm trying a few diffrentinthgs
[10:20] <imbrandon> qt-dbus*
[10:24] <imbrandon> dholbach: it looks like a qt-dus thing and ..... 03:23 < Riddell> imbrandon: so not much we can do until qt 4.2 comes out
[10:24] <imbrandon> unfortinutely
[10:25] <dholbach> oh
[10:25] <dholbach> ok
[10:25] <dholbach> I'll tell him
[10:25] <imbrandon> nota  problem with the telepathy
[10:25] <dholbach> i wonder what he uses to build it
[10:26] <imbrandon> heh watch it be gentoo ;)
[10:26] <imbrandon> lol
[10:26] <dholbach> no no, he uses ubuntu too
[10:26] <imbrandon> ahh
[10:26] <dholbach> but he must have upstream cvs or something
[10:26] <imbrandon> possibly
[10:27] <matiu> would anyone adopt my package?
[10:27] <imbrandon> matiu: what package ?
[10:27] <matiu> there's a build script in the svn source
[10:27] <matiu> http://exelearning.org
[10:27] <dholbach> we should have that kind of stuff in ubuntu though
[10:27] <dholbach> as part of the "make upstream happy" spec
[10:27] <matiu> I build packages, but I'm not too hot with ubuntu, don't have much time y'know
[10:27] <imbrandon> dholbach: definately
[10:28] <ajmitch> matiu: good to see more kiwis involved anyway :)
[10:28] <matiu> it's not in ubuntu offiial yet...
[10:28] <matiu> thanks...
[10:28] <ajmitch> does it use the new python policy yet?
[10:28] <matiu> Is there someone who would maintain it and get into ubuntu official and ed-ubuntu.. ?
[10:29] <matiu> ajmitch: I don't know what the new python policy is...
[10:29] <imbrandon> matiu: your in the right room/place to ask ;)
[10:29] <matiu> Our ubuntu package is the most popular linux download
[10:29] <matiu> second only to windoze
[10:29] <ajmitch> quite a large source tarball :)
[10:29] <matiu> overtook rpm this year...
[10:30] <matiu> yeah, it's a bit mucky, including twisted, nevow and formless
[10:30] <matiu> I can take them out (except nevow)
[10:30] <ajmitch> ouch
[10:30] <ajmitch> it can't build with an external python-nevow?
[10:30] <matiu> trouble is we depend on an older version that's not available in dapper onwards
[10:31] <ajmitch> hm
[10:31] <matiu> We tried 3 times to upgrade it, but get wierd slowing down problems
[10:31] <ajmitch> the debian packaging isn't in the source tarball I see, which is fine (and probably preferred)
[10:31] <matiu> the webserver gets slower and slower after each request. Haven't been able to fix it
[10:32] <matiu> ajmitch: really, it's just a super hack, to make ubuntu users happy. But I'd really like to see get into edubuntu official
[10:32] <ajmitch> right
[10:32] <ajmitch> so it may need done from scratch?
[10:32] <matiu> but I'm the lead developer and have too much on my plate to work out how to make packages.
[10:32] <ajmitch> is it a python extension or a python module?
[10:33] <matiu> Some people voluteered to do it, then dissappeared. about 3 times now :(
[10:33] <matiu> It's really an app
[10:33] <matiu> doesn't actually install in /usr/lib/python2.4
[10:33] <ajmitch> ah right
[10:33] <matiu> just all goes into /usr/share/exe
[10:33] <ajmitch> and some stuff in /usr/bin?
[10:33] <matiu> yeah, one file
[10:33] <matiu> called 'exe'
[10:33] <matiu> :)
[10:34] <ajmitch> naming is a little difficult :)
[10:34] <matiu> yeah. Try searching for it!
[10:34] <imbrandon> lol
[10:34] <matiu> we're moving to exelearning name. better
[10:34] <ajmitch> dependencies?
[10:35] <matiu> just twisted really
[10:35] <ajmitch> ok
[10:35] <ajmitch> standard distutils install?
[10:35] <matiu> and formless, perhaps. If twisted doesn't already depend on it
[10:35] <matiu> (also it includes a cusomised firefox)
[10:35] <matiu> That's another reason for bigness
[10:36] <matiu> Do you think there's any chance of getting it in official? or too evil?
[10:36] <ajmitch> ouch
[10:36] <ajmitch> the customised firefox would probably be the main killer
[10:36] <matiu> We could probably make it work with normal firefox
[10:37] <matiu> only there would be two menus...
[10:37] <matiu> not very professional looking
[10:37] <matiu> actually we could make a server only app
[10:38] <matiu> aw. I don't know. Maybe not
[10:38] <matiu> our ff has some chrome edits and accepts some undocumented command line options
[10:38] <matiu> that ubuntu firefox sometimes does and sometimes doesn't
[10:38] <matiu> depending on each release of it
[10:39] <matiu> the command line opts allow us to launch a special profile with special low security settings allowing our "localhost" web server to write files etc...
[10:40] <matiu> I'm sorry. I have to fly. I'll see if I can catch up again tommorrow ajmitch. Thanks for your help.
[10:40] <ajmitch> alright, see you later
[11:08] <\sh> how long does it take nowadays for a sync to happen?
[11:08] <ajmitch> depends on how often you nag kamion/keybuk
[11:08] <ajmitch> but it seems to be a few days at least
[11:08] <ajmitch> I think it's keybuk's archive day today
[11:11] <ajmitch> shawarma: what are you doing uploading nm plugins?
[11:11] <Plug> NM plugins you say?
[11:11] <ajmitch> yes
[11:11] <ajmitch> vpnc, openvpn, & pptp
[11:15] <\sh> ajmitch: thx...so I wait until universe UVF
[11:15] <\sh> ;)
[11:15] <ajmitch> \sh: or you bug them mercilessly
[11:16] <\sh> well, after I file some more sync reports ,)
[11:16] <ajmitch> though I've got to update some of my debian package first
[11:16] <\sh> I'm waiting for my hp blade enclosure to deploy ... DC has some problems with giving me MACs and ILO PWs
[01:35] <Yagisan> dumb question time, do we have packages of nvidias cg compiler ?
[02:05] <phanatic> hello everyone
[02:05] <ajmitch> hi phanatic
[02:05] <phanatic> hi ajmitch
[02:05] <Fujitsu> Hi phanatic.
[02:05] <phanatic> hey Fujitsu
[02:21] <AnAnt> ping dholbach
 dholbach: /home/brandon/devel/telepathy-qt/telepathy-qt-0.1.0/./include/QtTelepathy/channel.h:21:25: error: QtDBus/QtDBus: No such file or directory
[02:30] <dholbach> imbrandon: <andrunko> dholbach: strange, can you pastebin dpkg -L libdbus-qt4-1-dev
[02:30] <tseng>  /nick imdholbach
[02:33] <slomo> dholbach, imbrandon: wrong package name... should be liqt4-core-kdecopy-dev or something like that
[02:33] <imbrandon> dholbach: lemme finish eating ( breakfast time hehehe ) then i'll look
[02:35] <imbrandon> dholbach: ohhh thats what i was saying earlier , libdbus-qt4-1-dev isnt installable atm, Riddell  said we would have to wait for the qt4.2 update
[02:35] <imbrandon> slomo: wha ?
[02:36] <dholbach> imbrandon: ok, right
[02:36] <slomo> libdbus-qt4-1-dev is to be removed rsn
[02:36] <slomo> the dbus qt4 bindings moved to qt4 upstream and are in the qt4-x11-kdecopy package
[02:36] <imbrandon> hrm ok lemme try it with that
[02:37] <imbrandon> guess i should have known heh
[02:37] <imbrandon> slomo: you sure thats the right package? ......
[02:37] <imbrandon> brandon@horatio:~/devel/pytunes$ sudo apt-cache search qt4-x11-kdecopy
[02:37] <imbrandon> brandon@horatio:~/devel/pytunes$
[02:38] <slomo> imbrandon: that's the source package name
[02:38] <imbrandon> ahh
[02:38] <slomo> imbrandon: libqt4-dev-kdecopy / libqt4-core-kdecopy
[02:38] <imbrandon> right, ok , sorry eating and not thinking ;)
[02:39] <slomo> np
[02:39] <AnAnt> dholbach: did you get my email ?
[02:39] <dholbach> AnAnt: yes
[02:39] <dholbach> AnAnt: I diffed the two debian/ dirs
[02:40] <dholbach> AnAnt: it seems you changed the debhelper build-depends version
[02:40] <AnAnt> dholbach: yup
[02:40] <dholbach> AnAnt: I couldn't see why that was necessary
[02:40] <AnAnt> dholbach: because when I leave it as it is, the REVUers tell me that : compat should be set to 5, debhelper to >= (5.0.0), Standards-Version to 3.7.2
[02:41] <dholbach> then you should tell them: this is a package update - I want to keep the diff small
[02:41] <AnAnt> what diff ?
[02:41] <dholbach> that's a valid and good argument
[02:41] <dholbach> diff ubuntu debian
[02:41] <tseng> Hobbsee: man it takes forever to build ethereal
[02:41] <AnAnt> why would this make the diff big ?
[02:41] <dholbach> not big
[02:41] <dholbach> but it's an unnecessary change
[02:41] <Hobbsee> tseng: *g*
[02:42] <Hobbsee> tseng: what do you have to build it forthis time?
[02:42] <tseng> Hobbsee: i am trying to build it with gtk 1.2 to spot a "regression"
[02:42] <Hobbsee> ah
[02:42] <tseng> Hobbsee: this is infuriating
[02:42] <tseng> Hobbsee: ...we run it over remote X11 to windows clients
[02:42] <dholbach> AnAnt: nevermind - it was a sidenote - I uploaded it anyway... it's just a difference, if it's a package YOU maintain or if it's a package you have to merge every now and then
[02:42] <tseng> for network staff
[02:43] <tseng> Hobbsee: now that it was running good for awhile people will not believe that remote X is shit and this was a bad idea from the onset
[02:43] <tseng> Hobbsee: it must be fixed!!!!1
[02:43] <AnAnt> dholbach: yeah, I know it was a sidenote, but I needed to understand
[02:43] <dholbach> AnAnt: sure
[02:43] <AnAnt> dholbach: I didn't understand that "if it's a package YOU maintain or if it's a package you have to merge every now and then" part
[02:43] <dholbach> AnAnt: you didn't or you still don't?
[02:43] <Hobbsee> tseng: hehe, ouch, yes
[02:45] <AnAnt> dholbach: still don't
[02:46] <dholbach> AnAnt: ok. setting the Standards-Version is nice - so if it's a package where you write the packaging and you maintain it, you should have it.
[02:46] <dholbach> AnAnt: if it's a package that we sync from debian and it's the easiest way for us to have good quality software, it's nice if we can just sync it
[02:46] <dholbach> AnAnt: if there are changes, we can't sync, we have to check the changes
[02:47] <AnAnt> dholbach: ok, I noticed that Debian hasn't done any apcalc packages since Jan, so did they stop ?
[02:47] <dholbach> AnAnt: if changes are not necessary, one has to contemplate how much the change is
[02:47] <dholbach> AnAnt: that's something you need to ask the maintainer of the package - I don't know
[02:47] <AnAnt> dholbach: ok, thanks
[02:48] <dholbach> Ok, super.
[02:48] <AnAnt> dholbach: ok how about this question
[02:48] <AnAnt> dholbach: sometimes if I use the Debian diff as it is, the resulting binary debs got some lintian/linda issues
[02:49] <dholbach> if you forward the diff to the debian maintainer, that's cool
[02:49] <AnAnt> dholbach: like in the case of apcalc, the .menu file is in the apcalc-common instead of the apcalc package, and the FSF address is old
[02:49] <dholbach> to me "making linda happy" was only important for my packages
[02:49] <AnAnt> dholbach: ok, that's better idea indeed
[02:54] <Fujitsu> Thanks, \sh.
[02:55] <AnAnt> dholbach: ok, thanks for the info
[02:55] <lophyte> dholbach: you got a minute?
[02:56] <dholbach> lophyte: yes
[02:56] <lophyte> dholbach: you mentioned in your email to take a look at broken edgy packages and fix them.. I was just wondering, how do I know that someone else isn't already working on a particular package?
[02:56] <dholbach> lophyte: we have a lot of packages ;)
[02:57] <lophyte> haha, I noticed
[02:57] <dholbach> lophyte: if there's a specific bug you work on, you can simply add a comment "working on it"
[02:57] <lophyte> where would I add that?
[02:57] <dholbach> a comment on the bug?
[02:57] <lophyte> yeah
[02:58] <dholbach> http://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bugs
[02:58] <lophyte> ahhh, okay
[02:58] <dholbach> right
[02:58] <dholbach> lophyte: if it's a package of a "working list", you could just say "looking at <something>" in the channel - that's good enough
[02:58] <lophyte> alright
[02:58] <dholbach> we can't fully circumvent clashes, but they don't happen that often
[02:59] <lophyte> so should I check the launchpad for bugs first, or use apt-cache -i unmet as a guide for finding packages to work on?
[03:00] <dholbach> lophyte: there's a lot to do: if you find something that interests you, just go ahead
[03:00] <lophyte> alright
[03:00] <dholbach> we should definitely set up some working lists soon again
[03:01] <dholbach> and maybe have a motu meeting to discuss objectives until release
[03:01] <dholbach> like getting lists of packages that don't build anymore, etc
[03:01] <Fujitsu> Yeah, that'd be good.
[03:01] <dholbach> Unfortunately I'm very busy atm or I'd take matters in my own hands.
[03:01] <lophyte> I'm still working on going through the packaging guide
[03:02] <ajmitch> the rest of us can tackle it
[03:02] <ajmitch> dholbach: I'll check with infinity to see if he can do a test build & give us the results
[03:03] <dholbach> If somebody comes across an easy package to tackle for lophyte, please do so.
[03:03] <lophyte> thanks :)
[03:03] <dholbach> lophyte: you ROCK! :)
[03:04] <ajmitch> dholbach: what lists do we want this time? FTBFS, out of date, etc?
[03:04] <Hobbsee> dholbach: good idea
[03:04] <dholbach> ajmitch: unmetdeps too
[03:04] <ajmitch> ok
[03:04] <ajmitch> unmetdeps should be easy enough
[03:04] <dholbach> and of course our bugs
[03:04] <ajmitch> yeah
[03:04] <dholbach> it'd be great to get a big picture of stuff we should really fix
[03:05] <Fujitsu> It'd be very nice, yes.
[03:05] <ajmitch> you managed to get a response on setting motu as bug contact for everything in universe?
[03:05] <dholbach> no, I sent the mail - no reply yet
[03:05] <ajmitch> the problem is that some packages are more equal than others, so to speak
[03:05] <ajmitch> so maybe hooking it up to popcon again
[03:05] <dholbach> :-)
[03:05] <dholbach> yeah, I have the same feeling
[03:06] <ajmitch> goody, soyuz is missing the feature
[03:07] <tseng> yay
[03:08] <Fujitsu> Fantastic.
[03:08] <Fujitsu> I love having Launchpad being its useless self.
[03:09] <ajmitch> dholbach: for example, I found that kiwi doesn't build anymore - it's nice to catch these errors
[03:09] <ajmitch> hi Q-FUNK
[03:09] <dholbach> ajmitch: yeah, that'd be very good
[03:09] <Fujitsu> It would be nice... Anybody feel like doing it manually? :P
[03:09] <dholbach> ajmitch: after UniverseFreeze we should really look at our bugs and give them prios
[03:10] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: sure
[03:10] <ajmitch> we have the technology
[03:10] <ajmitch> dholbach: will we have some people to approve universe freeze exceptions again?
[03:11] <ajmitch> I think mdz won't mind if there are some trusted people doing that
[03:11] <dholbach> slomo, siretart and I will do it - same process as last time
[03:11] <ajmitch> ok
[03:11] <jsgotangco> "we have technology" - reminds me of spongebob
[03:11] <dholbach> I think it worked quite well
[03:11] <tseng> jsgotangco: the 6 million dollar man
[03:11] <ajmitch> as long as you're not all too busy
[03:11] <jsgotangco> hahaha
[03:12] <jsgotangco> inflation has drowned the cost of the 6 million dollar man
[03:12] <tseng> but prosthetic knees have gone down in price
[03:12] <tseng> meh
[03:12] <slomo> dholbach: maybe with only 2/3 votes necessary this time to get things done a bit faster
[03:13] <dholbach> slomo: sounds good to me
[03:13] <dholbach> siretart: ^ agree?
[03:13] <ajmitch> slomo: please
[03:14] <slomo> ajmitch: hm?
[03:14] <ajmitch> slomo: I think it's a good idea not requiring all 3
[03:14] <slomo> ajmitch: ok :)
[03:14] <ajmitch> since it puts pressure on you all to be on top of them :)
[03:15] <Q-FUNK> ajmitch: hi.  I saw your sync request added to the package. thanks!
[03:15] <ajmitch> no problem
[03:16] <lophyte> dholbach: should i post to the mailing list that I'm looking for easy packages to fix? ;)
[03:16] <siretart> dholbach: I got my connectivity back, so I in theory I should be able to handle that.
[03:16] <dholbach> siretart: do you have objections to a 2/3 vote being ok?
[03:16] <siretart> dholbach: let's try, but if I get too slow, it might make sense to replace me. for now, I'm willing to do so
[03:17] <ajmitch> hey siretart
[03:17] <siretart> dholbach: I think 2/3 vote is very ok, unless the third one strongly objects ;)
[03:17] <siretart> huhu ajmitch
[03:17] <dholbach> siretart: I'm fully confident in you
[03:17] <dholbach> siretart, slomo: ok, agreed.
[03:17] <dholbach> lophyte: sounds like a good idea - we should make that a nice big thread with ideas for the next weeks until release
[03:18] <lophyte> alright
[03:18] <dholbach> lophyte: thanks for doing it
[03:19] <ajmitch> infinity is working out something with wanna-build & getting us build results
[03:19] <slomo> siretart: any idea when you will have time for liba52? :)
[03:19] <siretart> ajmitch: testrebuilds like in hoary?
[03:19] <ajmitch> :1:> apt-cache -i unmet |grep Package |wc -l
[03:19] <ajmitch> 226
[03:19] <ajmitch> siretart: yes
[03:19] <siretart> slomo: ask me again tonight :)
[03:20] <ajmitch> we've got a few unmet deps according to a quick count there
[03:20] <slomo> siretart: ok :)
[03:20] <lophyte> sent
[03:21] <phanatic> hey raphink
[03:22] <raphink> hi phanatic
[03:23] <\sh> why can't hp deliver blades with pxe boot enabled by default...*gnarf*
[03:29] <siretart> dholbach: do we want to use tags for uvf approval this time?
[03:29] <dholbach> hum
[03:29] <dholbach> why not 'motu-uvf'?
[03:29] <siretart> dholbach: I think we can track uvf request more easily after they got approved
[03:29] <dholbach> hm
[03:30] <dholbach> hmhm
[03:30] <dholbach> :-)
[03:30] <dholbach> slomo: what do you think?
[03:30] <siretart> dholbach: the current process is, that after it got approved, the task gets assigned to someone.
[03:30] <siretart> and after that reassignemt, we loose the track that it once was an uvf request
[03:30] <dholbach> siretart: we can stay subscribed to it and track the status, no?
[03:30] <slomo> siretart, dholbach: i don't care... subscribing worked fine last time but tags would probably work fine too
[03:30] <slomo> siretart: that's why we don't assign but subscribe
[03:30] <siretart> true as well. hm
[03:31] <ajmitch> keep it consistent, subscribe
[03:31] <ajmitch> every other team works by subscribing
[03:34] <siretart> ok
[03:35] <siretart> so this is the authoritative worklist for the uvf team: https://launchpad.net/people/motu-uvf/+subscribedbugs
[03:35] <siretart> luckily only one request so far :)
[03:36] <ajmitch> great
[03:36] <slomo> does universe freeze start today already? i thought 28th september
[03:37] <ajmitch> it should be for people who have packages ready, not for random requests
[03:37] <ajmitch> slomo: you're right, but we want stuff in place before then
[03:43] <ajmitch> night all
[03:43] <bddebian> Heya gang
[03:43] <bddebian> Gnight ajmitch
[03:43] <dholbach>  sleep tight ajmitch
[03:43] <dholbach> hey bddebian
[03:43] <bddebian> HI Daniel
[03:43] <Nafallo> gnight ajmitch
[04:08] <fabo> i have uploaded transkode 0.6b2 and always nothing on revu.tauware.de
[04:09] <fabo> there's a previous version 0.5b already on revu but not uploded by me
[04:15] <fabo> no revu admin around ?
[04:16] <Hobbsee> fabo: is yours listed further down that page?
[04:16] <fabo> package yes but not my version on revu.tauware.de
[04:17] <fabo> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2261
[04:58] <bddebian> Doh, what time is meeting today?
[04:58] <Fujitsu> Which meeting?
[04:59] <Fujitsu> CC started 3 hours ago...
[04:59] <lophyte> and is still going.
[04:59] <bddebian> Oh fuck
[04:59] <Q-FUNK> oops
[04:59] <Fujitsu> bddebian, still going for quite some time.
[04:59] <Hobbsee> haha, yeah
[04:59] <Hobbsee> they're still not oone :P
[04:59] <Fujitsu> Why, bddebian?
[04:59] <Hobbsee> *done
[04:59] <Q-FUNK> well, not today for me
[04:59] <bddebian> I was going to speak for someone...
[04:59] <Fujitsu> And there's a fair bit to cover.
[04:59] <Q-FUNK> -> sauna
[05:00] <Fujitsu> bddebian, who?
[05:00] <Fujitsu> Currently doing Lie Ex, people before that have been done.
[05:01] <bddebian> Fujitsu: I don't remember.. My mind is mush lately :'-(
[05:01] <Fujitsu> :(
[05:09] <bddebian> I hate my freakin' life right now.. :-(
[05:10] <Nafallo> bddebian: aye! me as well.
[05:10] <Nafallo> bddebian: but my own...
[07:52] <Nafallo> ajmitch: ping :_)
[07:52] <Nafallo> :-)
[08:06] <AnAnt> dholbach: no one answered the elinks-full email
[08:07] <xerxas> is there some logs of the chan ?
[08:08] <LaserJock> xerxas: which channel?
[08:08] <LaserJock> this one?
[08:08] <xerxas> this one , and also desktop
[08:08] <xerxas> if there is
[08:09] <LaserJock> http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/
[08:09] <crimsun> AnAnt: most people are fairly busy. I'll look in a bit.
[08:09] <Q-FUNK> howdy!  if a DD is available to sponsor the upload to Debian, I have fixed a couple of bugs specific to Ubuntu on one of my packages.
[08:10] <AnAnt> crimsun: thanks
[08:10] <crimsun> Q-FUNK: err...specific to Ubuntu but you want uploaded to Debian?
[08:11] <crimsun> (you're probably better off asking in debian-mentors)
[08:11] <Q-FUNK> it changes nothing for the debian package and makes it finally work on ubuntu, just by changing the permissions on a file.
[08:11] <crimsun> right, a sync
[08:11] <Q-FUNK> first a sponsored uploa,d then a sync.
[08:11] <xerxas> LaserJock:  thanks !
[08:11] <xerxas> I found what I need :)
[08:12] <Q-FUNK> * Changed backend permissions to 6700 for Ubuntu (LP #36093, #42147).
[08:12] <crimsun> Q-FUNK: again, debian-mentors
[08:16] <Q-FUNK> no
[08:17] <Q-FUNK> wrong place to ask
[08:17] <Q-FUNK> too many ubuntu haters there
[08:17] <AnAnt> ?
[08:17] <AnAnt> debian ppl hate ubuntu ?
[08:18] <Q-FUNK> some do.  thank goodness, not all of them. :)
[08:18] <crimsun> sigh, it has nothing to do with Ubuntu. If you want a package uploaded into Debian, you'd ask in the channel(s) relevant to Debian.
[08:18] <hub> how do I exclude somme documentation files with cdbs?
[08:18] <hub> hey Q-FUNK
[08:18] <AnAnt> hub: is cdbs easy to use ?
[08:18] <Q-FUNK> hub :)
[08:19] <hub> AnAnt: yeah
[08:19] <AnAnt> hub: easier that debhelper ?
[08:19] <hub> AnAnt: it uses debhelper
[08:19] <AnAnt> ok
[08:19] <LaserJock> it looks cool though
[08:20] <LaserJock> and I didn't think debian-mentors had very many Ubuntu haters
[08:20] <crimsun> meaning "it can use debhelper if you include the .mk"
[08:20] <LaserJock> I found sponsors pretty quickly
[08:20] <hub> LaserJock: I don't create a new package without using CDBS
[08:20] <hub> LaserJock: I'd rather not have to maintaine rules
[08:20] <Riddell> hub: DEB_INSTALL_DOCS_package = -Xfoo
[08:21] <hub> Riddell: ah ok
[08:21] <Riddell> I'm guessing :)
[08:21] <AnAnt> hub: is there a quick tutorial for using CDBS ?
[08:21] <hub> AnAnt: https://perso.duckcorp.org/duck/cdbs-doc/cdbs-doc.xhtml
[08:22] <Q-FUNK> LaserJock: I've had bad experiences there in the past.  you own mileage may vary :)
[08:24] <AnAnt> hub: so I still must use dh_make to create the debian/ directory
[08:26] <hub> AnAnt: I copy stuff over
[08:26] <AnAnt> oh
[08:30] <Riddell> thom: where?
[08:31] <thom> Riddell: everywhere.anywhere
[08:31] <hub> Riddell: will you be at aKademy?
[08:31] <LaserJock> of course
[08:31] <Riddell> hub: sure
[08:32] <Riddell> I need to learn how to run akademy for next year
[08:32] <LaserJock> it isn't a magical black box if everybody knows how to use it properly ;-)
[08:32] <hub> Riddell: in scottland?
[08:32] <Riddell> yes
[08:32] <thom> LaserJock: right, but i don't like magic at the best of times
[08:32] <hub> Riddell: see you there anyway. I arrive Sunday
[08:32] <Riddell> groovy
[08:32] <hub> I have to remember how to get to the tcd
[08:33] <hub> I did for Guadec 2003 :-)
[08:33] <thom> i remember very little of guadec 2k3
[08:33] <LaserJock> thom: me neither, that's why i don't use it much yet
[08:34] <hub> thom: well, it was a last minute attendance, sort of
[08:34] <hub> thom: I was job-less
[08:36] <thom> i think http://www.flickr.com/photos/rossburton/234077202/ sums up gu4dec very well for me
[08:36] <thom> hub: i was just mostly drunk
[08:36] <hub> thom: I was nively drunk too
[08:37] <hub> mjg59 looks funny
[08:37] <hub> I have heard that he is coming too
[08:37] <thom> he was amazingly hung over
[08:37] <thom> to akademy? yeah, think he and robot101 are
[08:38] <hub> thom: will you be there?
[08:39] <hub> :-)
[08:39] <thom> nope, i have a release to do for work this week so the weekend is gonna be busy
[08:39] <hub> ah ok
[08:39] <hub> who do you work for?
[08:40] <thom> http://www.businessweek.com/print/bwdaily/dnflash/content/jul2006/db20060724_713810.htm
[08:42] <hub> I think I know a friend who work for them
[08:42] <hub> well he didnt' tell me who the company was nor the project
[08:43] <hub> well it is. got confirmation
[08:44] <thom> heh
[08:44] <thom> small world
[08:45] <hub> thom: you work for them?
[08:47] <thom> yup
[08:47] <Adri2000> hello all
[08:47] <Riddell> thom: mjg59 is going to akademy?
[08:49] <thom> Riddell: yeah, afaik
[08:49] <hub> Riddell: I have seen him on the wiki of departure
[08:49] <hub> more crazy people
[08:49] <hub> with free beer, it is dangerous
[09:08] <iapx8088> hi
[09:09] <iapx8088> I would need some clarification about revision
[09:09] <iapx8088> I did upload my package, and now?
[09:11] <iapx8088> I must wait for someone to review it?
[09:12] <tseng> you can revise it any time
[09:12] <iapx8088> mmh i see
[09:12] <iapx8088> I cannot revise a package I made, it's better if someone else does
[09:13] <iapx8088> of course if I find an error, I could reload the update.
[09:13] <iapx8088> omg my english is awful in those two rows.
[09:17] <tseng> right
[09:17] <tseng> revise is not the same as review
[09:17] <iapx8088> haaaa ok I see
[09:17] <tseng> you cant review your own package
[09:17] <iapx8088> okok
[09:17] <tseng> you can revise it :) update it with  fix
[09:17] <iapx8088> :D
[09:17] <iapx8088> thanks
[09:18] <iapx8088> no at the moment I would need someone to review it
[09:18] <iapx8088> the legal part, especially
[09:18] <lfittl> iapx8088: which package is it?
[09:18] <iapx8088> spice
[09:19] <iapx8088> I had some useful links to previous debian discussions in the comment
[09:19] <iapx8088> the ones that the form allowed me to put into
[09:22] <iapx8088> of course I already did the dirty work for the person that will threat the legal questions.
[09:22] <iapx8088> myself, I'm an engineer and not very fond of licences and stuff
[09:24] <lfittl> where exactly did you find the license in the upstream tarball? (the source files don't seem to have complete license headers)
[09:25] <iapx8088> ok
[09:25] <iapx8088> wait
[09:26] <iapx8088> lfittl, the licence I saw was in debian/ and was here due the fact that it's a spin-off from the unofficial debian port
[09:27] <iapx8088> but I believe there's a copy in the upstream tarball
[09:27] <iapx8088> I'm searching
[09:27] <lfittl> iapx8088: ok, this seems to be a very complicated situation, have you talked to the debian port maintainer already?
[09:31] <iapx8088> lfittl,  no answer from it
[09:31] <lfittl> :/
[09:32] <iapx8088> sent two emails
[09:33] <lfittl> k, maybe I will take a look at it later this week, as it would require some time to review it
[09:33] <iapx8088> ok
[09:35] <iapx8088> lfittl, I understand that spice is under the oldest BSD licence, so no GPLed code may be linked against it, so Debian refuses to package it.
[09:36] <iapx8088> but basically, the licence is very free
[09:36] <iapx8088> and if you asks berkeley, they don't answer, the ngspice team already pleaded them to change the license.
[09:38] <iapx8088> anyway, my package like the debian one, is sort of a wrapper, it works only if You provide the source
[09:38] <lfittl> iapx8088: basically, apart from being non-commercial, it is free, but the source files don't have the correct license headers, which means the chance that this will get into ubuntu is very small
[09:38] <iapx8088> I understand
[09:38] <Q-FUNK> any comment on bug #58392 ?
[09:38] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 58392 in upgrade-system "Could not calculate the upgrade..." [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/58392
[09:38] <iapx8088> I feared that
[09:38] <iapx8088> I believe it will end like the Debian port, staying unofficial.
[09:39] <lfittl> still better than having no package available at all, just promote it somewhere so that people can find it ;)
[09:39] <iapx8088> no problem for me, but it's a pity, SPICE is the mother of all simulators.
[09:39] <iapx8088> and quite a reference.
[09:39] <iapx8088> well, shame on berkeley and their attitude
[09:40] <lfittl> yep, at least their attitude concerning licenses
[09:41] <iapx8088> :
[09:41] <iapx8088> :\
[09:41] <Tutenstein> hi, what is the first step to getting involved in development...I have got much free time nowadays...
[09:42] <iapx8088> lfittl, what i don't understand very well, is how ngspice (a spinoff) is in the repos...
[09:42] <iapx8088> I mean, you take someone else code, you tweak it, and then it's ok?
[09:43] <ajmitch> morning
[09:43] <iapx8088> there's something weird in the situation
[09:44] <lfittl> it seems very weird to me, are there many people interested in having this packaged?
[09:44] <iapx8088> mmmh I believe so.
[09:44] <iapx8088> Imho yes, pratically all the el* engineers
[09:45] <iapx8088> they resort to wine+ltspice actually
[09:45] <lfittl> can't they use the spinoff?
[09:45] <iapx8088> probably, but the good in spice is that it's a reference, while in the spinoff they tweaked a little the algorithms, so you can't no longer say SPICE says so.
[09:46] <lfittl> ah, I see
[09:46] <iapx8088> if you say ngspice says so, you are to be answered, and who the hell is it the guy behind ngspice?
[09:46] <iapx8088> spice, old and crusty, bad and slow, is a safe reference,
[09:46] <Q-FUNK> morning ajmitch
[09:47] <lfittl> morning ajmitch
[09:47] <iapx8088> but I would have to see better the work under ngspice, who knows? maybe they didn't tweak the algos
[09:47] <iapx8088> anyway I see the point.
[09:47] <iapx8088> If there's a way to put spice in ubuntu, I would be more than eager to mantain it.
[09:48] <iapx8088> if not, long live ngspice :D
[09:48] <lfittl> sure, and maybe there is a way to get it in, but it will take some time, so don't expect it to be in edgy
[09:49] <iapx8088> we have time, we waited 100 years for SPICE
[09:49] <iapx8088> :D
[09:49] <lfittl> :)
[09:50] <iapx8088> the ngspice situation is more than interesting for me, I'm developing internally a spice on steroids and it would be great to put it on ubuntu
[09:51] <iapx8088> I mean, I'm leaving alone the algos, and trying to settle the little big problems around.
[09:51] <iapx8088> it would be a great thing, but what's the point of making it if I cannot relase it and the distros cannot package it...all lost work
[09:52] <iapx8088> maybe I should drop a note to them
[09:53] <Mez> siretart: ping
[09:53] <siretart> Mez: pong
[09:54] <Mez> siretart: one sec - iot's regarding tiber
[09:56] <Mez> siretart: can you install automake1.9 on tiber please?
[09:58] <bddebian> Mez!!!!!! :-)
[09:58] <bddebian> Hey siretart
[09:59] <Mez> hey bddebian
[10:00] <Mez> siretart: ignore last message
[10:00] <Mez> I forgot to set the path to autoconf on the commnand line
[10:01] <siretart> Mez: done
[10:01] <siretart> huhu bddebian
[10:01] <LaserJock> hi siretart
[10:01] <ajmitch> hello siretart
[10:01] <LaserJock> hi bddebian
[10:01] <LaserJock> hola ajmitch
[10:02] <ajmitch> LaserJock!
[10:02] <siretart> n'evening LaserJock and ajmitch
[10:02] <bddebian> Heya LaserJock and ajmitch
[10:02] <ajmitch> one big round of introductions...
[10:03] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 58392 in upgrade-system "Could not calculate the upgrade..." [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/58392
[10:03] <siretart> Q-FUNK: I had a friend who told me that launchpad was quite confusing at first. I think you get used to it after some time..
[10:03] <ajmitch> Q-FUNK: it also doesn't have nearly enough info
[10:03] <Q-FUNK> siretart: the modal menus are what's confusing.  they are considered a big no-no of UI design, usually.
[10:03] <Nafallo> fabbione compared it to doom :-)
[10:04] <Nafallo> IIRC
[10:04] <Q-FUNK> heh
[10:04] <ajmitch> Nafallo: a monster on every page?
[10:04] <Q-FUNK> :D
[10:04] <siretart> has anyone heard about a command 'lessdif'? (note the one 'f')
[10:04] <Nafallo> ajmitch: hehe, something like that ;-)
[10:05] <LaserJock> hmm, well I count ~10 less packages on REVU after REVU day :/
[10:06] <ajmitch> LaserJock: plus a  number of comments & updates
[10:06] <LaserJock> well sure
[10:06] <ajmitch> LaserJock: we just have to keep reviewing until freeze day
[10:07] <LaserJock> I'm wondering more about efficency though
[10:07] <ajmitch> in what way?
[10:07] <LaserJock> are we putting a lot of work into stuff that isn't making it into Universe?
[10:07] <ajmitch> yes
[10:07] <ajmitch> feel free to suggest how we can see what won't make it into universe :)
[10:08] <LaserJock> well, we'd need to analyze the problem first
[10:08] <LaserJock> is it that we just have low quality packages
[10:08] <ajmitch> low barrier of entry
[10:08] <LaserJock> or is it that we are hitting a lot of copyright/license  problems
[10:09] <ajmitch> people upload packages, expect instant feedback, and don't update
[10:09] <LaserJock> or is it that people aren't getting feedback fast enough and give up
[10:09] <ajmitch> far more quality issues than licensing, from what I've seen
[10:09] <LaserJock> k
[10:09] <Q-FUNK> ajmitch: that would be them missing the part about droping by here or to -devle to ask for feedback
[10:09] <ajmitch> Q-FUNK: which they don't always get
[10:09] <Q-FUNK> ajmitch: why not?
[10:10] <ajmitch> because people aren't always around & available
[10:10] <Q-FUNK> ah
[10:10] <Q-FUNK> so impatience
[10:10] <ajmitch> sure :)
[10:10] <ajmitch> we can't do much about that
[10:11] <iapx8088> I'm new, but I expect to start reviewing, not just sit here and wait for someone to slash my ill-driven package.
[10:11] <iapx8088> ;-(
[10:11] <Q-FUNK> is there any way we could incorporate some sort of mentoring in a more systematic way, so that true bleu beginers get a helping hand for their first few packages?
[10:12] <ajmitch> we've tried, there's a list of willing mentors
[10:12] <Q-FUNK> at debian, the systematic feedback I get from sponsors and from my AM have helped me increase the quality of my packages really quick.
[10:12] <ajmitch> in debian, there are a lot more people to sponsor & give feedback
[10:13] <Q-FUNK> call me silly, but I think that forcing people to first go thru sponsored uploads with sponsor's feedback turns out to have benefits, on that aspect
[10:13] <LaserJock> that's what we do
[10:13] <Q-FUNK> where it goes silly is that right next to it, the step towards DD via NM is huge
[10:14] <Q-FUNK> I'm wondering if there's any way to find a better balance betwen the sometimes lax quality of packages due to poor feedback and the 3-year queue in NM?
[10:15] <LaserJock> mentors.debian.net currently has about the same number of packages as REVU
[10:15] <LaserJock> Q-FUNK: I thought that was called MOTU ;-)
[10:15] <Q-FUNK> ;)
[10:16] <shawarma> ajmitch: (about the nm plugins) I had them in my own repository and I noticed that they were referenced all over the place, so I figured I might as well upload them, so people can just get them directly from the universe goodness instead of adding my repository. They really shouldn't trust people like me. :-)
[10:16] <ajmitch> shawarma: uploading stuff over what other people have packaged isn't polite :)
[10:16] <iapx8088> can I say something, the word of a brand new-blue?
[10:16] <shawarma> ajmitch: Oh, shit, they were already there?
[10:16] <ajmitch> yes
[10:16] <Q-FUNK> between the (percieved but not always true) low quality that sometimes slip into universe and the black beret hazing of debian, there's gotta be a middle ground
[10:17] <LaserJock> creating better MOTUs :-)
[10:17] <shawarma> ajmitch: I didn't even notice. I was reading the NetworkManager FAQ and saw them referenced, so someone clearly wants/needs them.
[10:17] <ajmitch> we try & keep the quality bar high enough for universe
[10:17] <Q-FUNK> shawarma: gotta admit that your nickname rings of delicious grilled meat ;)
[10:18] <ajmitch> sure, some people may be stricter on quality than others, but I'd hope that we're not letting through obvious crack :)
[10:18] <iapx8088> I believe that the stuff should be on a single website, the wiki and all;  I believe there should be just one registration for everything.
[10:18] <shawarma> Q-FUNK: One of these days, I'll make up a silly story about it meaning something obscene in Danish. :-)
[10:18] <ajmitch> iapx8088: give it time
[10:18] <Q-FUNK> shawarma: some religious cartoonish reference comes to mind :-P
[10:18] <shawarma> ajmitch: I actually think crack has an easier time sneaking into Debian.
[10:18] <ajmitch> iapx8088: we're limited in what we can work with, and the time it takes to develop stuff
[10:19] <iapx8088> ajmitch, yes I understand, of course there were suggestions :D
[10:19] <shawarma> ajmitch: Have you seen the axiom package? I still wake up screaming sometimes after merging that one.
[10:19] <LaserJock> :-)
[10:19] <ajmitch> shawarma: no, I don't touch most packages
[10:19] <ajmitch> Q-FUNK: bridge the gap in what way, though?
[10:20] <Q-FUNK> ajmitch: I'm mostly interested in uploading as much as possible directly into debian, to thin down on the amount of ubuntu-specific diffs if possible
[10:20] <iapx8088> why don't starting categorizing people? I mean, I'm an electronic eng, I could test both the package and the program itself for all the elettr* packages. So could a graphic, and so could a med.
[10:20] <LaserJock> iapx8088: we have those
[10:21] <iapx8088> I don't know if presently there are el programs in revu, the name doesn't always speak. If I'd know, I'd be reviewing them just now.
[10:21] <ajmitch> Q-FUNK: I'm fairly sure that all of my packages in Ubuntu are also in Debian
[10:21] <shawarma> ajmitch: Well, to be fair, only the network-manager-pptp has been touched since back in April.
[10:21] <Q-FUNK> ajmitch: as my lp page says, I'm doing NM and yet i've been handing out ubuntu CDs for the last couple of years.
[10:21] <ajmitch> shawarma: that was the main one I was asking about, since I was reviewing it with plug :)
[10:22] <Q-FUNK> ajmitch: there's still tons of packages that receive useful patches in buntu that don't make it in debian
[10:22] <ajmitch> of course
[10:22] <shawarma> ajmitch: "with plug"?
[10:22] <ajmitch> ah, you still have T&S to go :)
[10:22] <ajmitch> shawarma: Plug, aka Craig Box
[10:23] <Q-FUNK> I subscribe to madduck's idea of sympathetic DDs doing everything they can to help merge and upload
[10:23] <ajmitch> Q-FUNK: and I do that
[10:23] <LaserJock> I don't think there should be teams for that
[10:23] <ajmitch> I was uploading stuff to debian until late last night :)
[10:23] <shawarma> ajmitch: Hmmm... assume that I've just stumbled in from the street and don't know anything about anything... What is Craig Box?
[10:23] <shawarma> ajmitch: I'm totally lost here.
[10:23] <ajmitch> shawarma: someone who has his package on revu
[10:23] <LaserJock> this should be DD and MOTU wide thing
[10:23] <shawarma> ajmitch: Ah...
[10:24] <LaserJock> DDs should be open to looking at Ubuntu patches, and MOTUs should be open to sending them
[10:24] <LaserJock> training is a part of that
[10:24] <shawarma> ajmitch: I thought you were reviewing it with plug as in "I'm using this new magical wand called "plug" to review it".
[10:24] <ajmitch> no
[10:24] <shawarma> ajmitch: I see what you mean now.
[10:25] <shawarma> ajmitch: Will anything be messed up if you nuke my uploads of that package?
[10:25] <ajmitch> yes, it'll take out the whole package
[10:26] <shawarma> ajmitch: upload no. 3190 and 3192
[10:26] <shawarma> ajmitch: Ah, ok.
[10:26] <ajmitch> iirc nukes don't just work on uploads now
[10:27] <shawarma> ajmitch: Ok. I'll send plug an e-mail asking him to reupload. I don't want to step on anyone's toes.
[10:27] <ajmitch> he'll probably be on irc later
[10:32] <phanatic> good evening
[10:33] <lfittl> evening phanatic
[10:33] <phanatic> hi lfittl
[10:40] <Plug> shawarma: got your e-mail
[10:40] <Plug> no prob wrt toes
[10:40] <Plug> I worked with ajmee to make the thing actually go for me :)
[10:42] <ajmitch> might be worth seeing what can be picked out of both packages
[10:46] <Plug> I started with Soren's original package as a base
[10:47] <ajmitch> I see the recent change http://revu.tauware.de/diff.py?upid1=3190&upid2=3192 seems to get stuff out of being placed directly in /usr/lib
[10:49] <bddebian> Heya phanatic, lfittl
[10:49] <iapx8088> I gotta go
[10:49] <iapx8088> lfittl, let me know if there's any news
[10:49] <phanatic> heya bddebian
[10:49] <iapx8088> bbbye
[10:54] <Mez> siretart: ping
[10:54] <shawarma> Plug: so... Do you want to "keep it" or should we just leave my updated package there? I don't mind either way.
[10:55] <siretart> Mez: yes?
[10:56] <Mez> siretart: any chance of updating the sources.list on tiber so that it pulls the sources from edgy when you apt-get source ?
[10:59] <Plug> I'd like to keep it at this point
[11:00] <Plug> but I'll check the differences out with you
[11:00] <Plug> cos at this point I have no idea what you've done
[11:01] <siretart> Mez: you could use an apt-get option to use a custom sources.list. would that help you?
[11:01] <Mez> siretart: I was just wondering-  as that how you used it before..,it's not  aproblem to get it manuallyt
[11:01] <LaserJock> siretart: will *only* adding a deb-src line allow you to do that?
[11:02] <Mez> LaserJock, it did before ;)
[11:02] <shawarma> LaserJock: What else would you add?
[11:02] <LaserJock> deb
[11:02] <shawarma> LaserJock: No need.
[11:02] <LaserJock> but we don't want that on tiber ;-)
[11:02] <shawarma> LaserJock: Oh, no. Is it still running Breezy?
[11:02] <LaserJock> I'm just wondering if you put in a deb-src line for edgy
[11:02] <LaserJock> and you run apt-get source
[11:03] <LaserJock> will it grab edgy
[11:03] <shawarma> LaserJock: Yes.
[11:03] <LaserJock> isn't there a way to set it up so you can specify the repo?
[11:03] <shawarma> Plug: Ok. I've noticed a bug in my most recent upload, but if you're reworking it, it doesn't matter.
[11:04] <shawarma> LaserJock: apt-get source -t distro packagename   ?
[11:04] <LaserJock> something like that
[11:04] <shawarma> LaserJock: No, exactly that. :-)
[11:04] <LaserJock> a waaaay long time ago I remember trying something like that on Fedora
[11:05] <LaserJock> seemed like you didn't need the -t though, like it was after the packagename
[11:05] <shawarma> LaserJock: It works here. My build server has both dapper and edgy configured and I can do it like that.
[11:05] <siretart> I'd like to get tiber updated to breezy first
[11:05] <LaserJock> I thought it was running breezy?
[11:05] <siretart> but I'd like to do this with sistpoty
[11:06] <Plug> shawarma: are you still working from the 'released' 0.6.2 source?
[11:06] <LaserJock> is the machine actually located with you guys siretart?
[11:06] <siretart> LaserJock: no, it is hosted at serverpronto.com
[11:06] <Fujitsu> Oh no...
[11:07] <Fujitsu> I've got bad memories of upgrading Breezy->Dapper with them.
[11:07] <siretart> Fujitsu: so?
[11:07] <ajmitch> siretart: we can probably manage that in steps :)
[11:07] <shawarma> Plug: "released"?
[11:08] <shawarma> Plug: My starting point was a checkout of the vpn directories of the gnome cvs with the RELEASE_0_6_3 tag (or something like that).
[11:08] <Plug> Right
[11:08] <shawarma> Plug: ...since edgy uses 0.6.3. The dapper package uses 0.6.2.
[11:09] <Plug> there were lots of fixes committed to HEAD that I don't think are on a release branch yet
[11:09] <Plug> but we made sure the package worked with the dapper version as a priority
[11:09] <shawarma> Plug: Are the dbus interfaces compatible?
[11:09] <Plug> they haven't changed
[11:09] <Plug> the dict stuff is in NM HEAD
[11:09] <shawarma> Plug: Yes.
[11:09] <Plug> but we have also got some nice detection stuff that will use the right interface for the right version
[11:10] <shawarma> Plug: At least the interface for passing ip configuration info from the vpn plugin to networkmanager has changed since 0.6.3 release.
[11:10] <Plug> yep
[11:10] <shawarma> Plug: incompatibly so.
[11:10] <Plug> put it this way, my package should work for 0.6.2 and 0.6.3
[11:10] <Plug> and possibly for anything higher, but that wasn't a current concern
[11:11] <Plug> as edgy is (I assume) sticking with 0.6.3
[11:11] <shawarma> Plug: Right. the same probably goes for mine. I don't think there were any changes in this area between 0.6.2 and 0.6.3.
[11:11] <shawarma> Plug: It will not work with anything after 0.6.3, I think.
[11:11] <Kyral> LaserJock: ping
[11:11] <Plug> your original package didn't work for me as I needed to specify 'refuse-eap' to connect to my (Windows 2003) VPN server
[11:11] <Plug> and there was no way of doing this, or specifying extra options, from the interface
[11:12] <Plug> That's one of the many things we fixed :)
[11:12] <shawarma> Plug: About a week after 0.6.3 was released rml committed a change to the dbus interface for passing ip configuration. Not the dict stuff, but just an extra parameter for the method call.
[11:12] <Plug> shawarma: accounted for
[11:12] <Plug> it was mss, iirc?
[11:12] <shawarma> Plug: Oh, cool! You made actual changes? :-)
[11:12] <Plug> Hell yes! :)
[11:12] <shawarma> Plug: Might be.
[11:13] <Plug> I spent a good number of hours with the author, working in CVS
[11:13] <Plug> we fixed all number of nasties
[11:13] <shawarma> Plug: Just for that plugin or general networkmanager crap?
[11:13] <Plug> Just for that plugin.
[11:13] <Plug> in saying that, some of the rest of the bugs are fixed in newer NMs
[11:13] <ajmitch> Plug: great, so the remaining fix before it gets uploaded is probably just moving files from /usr/lib
[11:14] <Plug> such as "if you click save, you can't then click edit on the same connection - you have to quit the dialog first"
[11:14] <shawarma> Plug: Well then. Please upload your shiny, new, nicer plugin to revu again. The changes to move the stuff out of /usr/bin is really simple. I can make a diff just for that stuff if you want it.
[11:14] <ajmitch> and then we can advocate it & bug someone else to review it
[11:14] <Plug> the usr/lib thing is a build parameter I believe
[11:15] <Plug> its marked on another package anyway
[11:15] <Plug> I just need to turn that PC on (which probably means after 5pm tonight, in ~8 hours)
[11:15] <shawarma> Plug: Ok. How did you manage to work around the added parameter in the dbus method call?
[11:19] <Plug> commented out the line in a patch in the package, I believe
[11:19] <Plug> would need the source in front of me to confirm
[11:19] <siretart> gnarf
[11:21] <shawarma> Plug: Oh. :-) I thought you cast an introspection spell and figured out if networkmanager wanted the extra parameter and passed it depending on that.
[11:21] <Plug> http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/network-manager-pptp-0609121645/network-manager-pptp_0.6.3+cvs20060819-0ubuntu8.diff.gz
[11:21] <Plug> 02_nm_ppp_starter.patch
[11:22] <Plug> nothing quite that smart I'm afraid! :)
[11:22] <shawarma> Plug: Yes, i see it.
[11:23] <shawarma> Plug: Not quite as magical as I thought it would be.
[11:23] <shawarma> Plug: :-)
[11:23] <zul> /win 13
[11:23] <ajmitch> ftw!
[11:33] <siretart> Nafallo: welcome to MOTUMedia :)
[11:33] <Nafallo> siretart: yay! thanks :-)
[11:34] <siretart> slomo: around?
[11:34] <slomo> siretart: yes
[11:35] <siretart> slomo: I'm just talking to panthera, a52dec maintainer in debian. he tells me  that he would like to update it to something newer, but sam didn't commit anything since may
[11:36] <slomo> siretart: too bad... look at mplayer then, they have their diffs in the a52 directory
[11:36] <lophyte> anyone have a palm pilot?
[11:36] <siretart> slomo: I'd rather suggest to compile against the internal a52 for now
[11:37] <slomo> siretart: then we have to take the internal ffmpeg too
[11:37] <siretart> *shrug*
[11:37] <slomo> Nafallo: ^--- so change mplayer back to compile against internal ffmpeg please
[11:37] <siretart> I'd rather like to have a working mplayer. we have tons of other stuff to do as well
[11:38] <Nafallo> okidoki
[11:39] <siretart> the xine merge gets more interesting than I thought.. *sigh*
[11:40] <Nafallo> I comment it in case we change our mind about that.
[11:40] <slomo> so let's hope that gstreamer takes over the world ;) it's always fun to update/merge the packages because of almost no work :P
[11:40] <Nafallo> hmm, we _are_ using bzr, I might aswell remove it ;-)
[11:50] <Q-FUNK> must we always sync from unstabl eor can it also be from incoming?
[11:51] <bddebian> You can ask for experimental/incoming I think but I don't know how common that is
[11:52] <ajmitch> Q-FUNK: by the time they get to the sync, it may be in the pool anyway
[11:52] <Q-FUNK> experimentla would make sense for another one of my packages, actually
[11:53] <bddebian> Later folks
[11:58] <Q-FUNK> for gaim-irchelper, ubuntu already thinghtened up the build-depends to gaim-dev 2.0beta3 a while back
[11:58] <Q-FUNK> i did the same for debian, but only for experimental
[11:58] <Q-FUNK> getting ubuntu to use my experimental package would eliminate the need for a manual sync
[12:01] <tseng> tell seb128