=== vladanian [n=jason@65.163.91.172] has joined #upstart [12:29] I've got an upstart question -- I'd been running it on edgy for a few weeks and it was working fine, but for the past couple weeks I've gotten hung up at boot on, "upstart: Error reading control message: Invalid message received." Anyone encounter this? [12:30] why is upstart good for me? [12:32] hmm [12:45] In case anyone's interested, I've filed a bug: https://launchpad.net/products/upstart/+bug/61322 [12:46] this is kewl! init IS a bit old [12:47] the problem: so is *nix :( [12:47] the whole net thing in *nix is a hack [12:47] prtty good hack, but still a hack [12:47] but GO upstart [12:59] 23:47 < johnnybuoy> the whole net thing in *nix is a hack [12:59] ? [01:00] hmm [01:00] makers of UNIX admitted this, I fell on it when exploring a novel OS from them (the authors of UNIX): plan9 [01:01] UNIX was not designed with networks in mind, networks came later [01:03] I think it's hard to say it's a hack, given how well it works [01:04] good hack [01:04] but hack [01:04] it *does* work well [01:05] but it wrks beter in plan9 :) [01:05] In what ways? [01:11] well, for egzample it only has one protocol for everything, but I'd think #plan9 would be a better place for this discussion === mbiebl [n=michael@dslb-084-057-248-064.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #upstart === mbiebl [n=michael@dslb-084-057-248-064.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #upstart === Keybuk [n=scott@quest.netsplit.com] has joined #upstart === theCore [n=alex@modemcable106.200-70-69.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #upstart === Amaranth [n=travis@ubuntu/member/amaranth] has joined #upstart === j_ack_ [n=rudi@p508D9B3C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #upstart === j_ack_ [n=rudi@p508D9B3C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #upstart === Ingmar [n=ingmar@d51A482FD.access.telenet.be] has joined #upstart === Seveas [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #upstart === juergbi [n=juerg@80-219-26-249.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #upstart === Md [i=md@freenode/staff/md] has joined #upstart === che [n=che@unaffiliated/che] has joined #upstart === Ingmar [n=ingmar@d51A482FD.access.telenet.be] has joined #upstart === Ingmar is now known as Ingmar^ === kinema [n=adam@c-71-236-182-199.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #upstart === kinema [n=adam@c-71-236-182-199.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has left #upstart [] === mbiebl [n=michael@dslb-084-057-254-232.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #upstart === Artanicus [i=kuitunej@lehtori.cc.tut.fi] has joined #upstart === Artanicus [i=kuitunej@lehtori.cc.tut.fi] has joined #upstart [12:29] the topic isnt accurate anymore... 0.2.7 is up === ..[topic/#upstart:mbiebl] : Upstart 0.2.7 | http://upstart.ubuntu.com/ | http://upstart.ubuntu.com/doc/getting-started.html | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UpstartDesignChanges | irc logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs === johnnybuoy [n=void@nilus-268.adsl.datanet.hu] has joined #upstart [02:14] hello! how do I know if a service is started or not? with upstart I don't get the scrolling stuff when starting the pc. [02:14] <_ion> Upstart jobs: status jobname [02:15] <_ion> init.d scripts: /var/log/boot [02:15] ok, thanks! Oh and great job all! my pc starts a *lot* faster now with upstart [02:29] johnnybuoy: probably a placebo effect. atm upstart should be appox. the same speed as sysvinit. [02:30] :D [02:30] okok [02:30] None of the init scripts was converted to upstart jobs yet, the boot procedure is basically the same (maybe the missing output makes it abit faster) [02:30] tha problem is I do status fbsplash, and it doesn't know [02:31] If you want comparable bootup times, install bootchart+bootchart-view [02:32] what is that? [02:33] bootchart - Boot process performance analyser [02:33] ah ok. [02:33] but now I don't have init... [02:33] I can't compare :) [02:34] I think it must be a little faster... [02:34] If you are happy with upstart, that's all that matters ;-) [02:34] or maybe that upgrade last night .. [02:34] :) [02:34] yes, very. [02:34] Md: ping [02:34] I'd like to know what jobs are started tho [02:34] status don't work [02:35] initctl list [02:35] ahh [02:35] maybe [02:36] I don't get it [02:36] this is not it [02:37] You probably want to read /var/log/boot or remove "quiet" from the boot options. [02:37] ah ok! [02:38] that might be it [02:38] mbiebl: pong [02:38] /var/log/boot: (Nothing has been logged yet.) [02:38] :( [02:39] Got a problem with one of your udev rules in /etc/udev/udev.rules [02:39] Specifically the dm rule that prevents /dev/dm-X from being created. [02:39] This breaks gnome-mount when used with luks encrypted partitions. [02:40] johnnybuoy: Install upstart-logd [02:40] mbiebl: discuss this with the maintainers involved in dm. feel free to Cc me [02:40] it's doing it right now, i think [02:40] ok, thanks [02:41] I talked to the hal dev (davidz and kay) and the said there is no good reason not to have /dev/dm-x [02:42] I asked you, because /etc/udev/udev.rules is part of the udev package. [02:42] mbiebl: yes, but I do not know how dm works. I am sure that I added that rules for a reason (and every other distribution did too), so I will not remove it unless somebody can explain with authority why it's not needed anymore [02:43] Redhat does not. [02:44] ok. still, I will not change the package in a way I do not understand so please look for a rationale [02:45] The rational is, that cryptsetup itself does not need /dev/dm-* [02:45] So it was removed with this udev rules. [02:45] But 3rd party apps, like gnome-mount, rely on /dev/dm-*. [02:46] I think there was much more than cryptsetup [02:46] are you really positively sure that having udev create the devices will not break other dm components? [02:47] According to kay and davidz it should not hurt (otherwise redhat would be busted anyway) [02:47] I can ask the dm maintainer first if you prefer that. [02:47] ok, I will change this in the next upload today or tomorrow [02:47] yes, please ask him as well. just to be sure [02:47] Ok, will do. [02:48] I added that rule may 30. I think there was a reason, but I really cannot remember it === Seveas [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #upstart === Md_ [i=md@freenode/staff/md] has joined #upstart === Md_ is now known as ghost === ghost is now known as Md === johnnybuoy [n=void@unaffiliated/johnnybuoy] has joined #upstart === j_ack [n=rudi@p508D9B3C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #upstart === wasabi__ [n=wasabi@207.55.180.150] has joined #upstart === j_ack [n=rudi@p508D9B3C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #upstart === mbiebl [n=michael@tecov6131.teco.uni-karlsruhe.de] has joined #upstart === j_ack [n=rudi@p508D9B3C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #upstart === mbiebl [n=michael@tecov6131.teco.uni-karlsruhe.de] has joined #upstart === johnnybuoy [n=void@unaffiliated/johnnybuoy] has joined #upstart === Admiral_Chicago [n=freddy@st0660990722.monm.edu] has joined #upstart === Admiral_Chicago [n=freddy@st0660990722.monm.edu] has joined #upstart === wasabi__ [n=wasabi@207.55.180.150] has joined #upstart === mbiebl [n=michael@tecov6131.teco.uni-karlsruhe.de] has joined #upstart === Seveas [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #upstart === Keybuk [n=scott@quest.netsplit.com] has joined #upstart [08:23] <_ion> keybuk: grep respawn /etc/event.d/logd [08:25] the // thing? [08:26] <_ion> Yep. :-) Not that it really matters. [08:28] yeah, common side-effect of --exec-prefix=/ === maro [n=mark@0x55511dab.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #upstart === Seveas [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #upstart === maro_ [n=mark@0x55511dab.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #upstart === mbiebl [n=michael@dslb-088-064-169-007.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #upstart === j_ack [n=rudi@p508D9B3C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #upstart === maro_ [n=mark@0x55511dab.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #upstart [10:02] hi :) [10:03] do you know if upstart is supposed to completely replace sysvinit, or is it a long-term solution to depend on sysvinit-utils? [10:03] maro: the things in sysvutils/sysvinit-utils are things that aren't really part of init [10:03] so there's no particular reason for upstart to provide its own implementation of them [10:04] hm, true :) [10:06] are there examples of no-rc-compat setups yet? [10:08] not yet [10:09] we're doing the "release early and release often" thing, we're still at "early" :p [10:09] the idea of doing the rc-compat stuff is that it proves the daemon works, while still letting us revert to sysvinit at a moment's notice if it doesn't [10:09] ok, perhaps I can be the first then ;) [10:09] go for it :) [10:10] already did a full minit migration once, still have a graph somewhere [10:12] minit is one-way depedency based though, so this will probably be a bit harder... anyway: http://borkware.net/~mark/minit.png :) [10:16] heh, cute [10:19] doesn't look that complex on a graph, but imagine every service being a directory containing a symlink to the executable, a file for parameters, optional (empty) "respawn" and "sync" files... [10:20] running 'tree' in there gives me 63 directories and 211 files ;) [10:20] yeah, djb-style config sucks :p [10:21] djb-style does in general ;) [10:21] *shrug* I still use qmail [10:24] I wonder how hard it will be to make scripts for upstart ala the one I did to draw the graph [10:25] (100 lines of sh) [10:25] quite easy I should think [10:25] we'll see :) [10:26] anyway, need to get some sleep - sleep tight when the moon hits your timezone :) [10:29] ah, just saw your reply on the list - sounds good :) - off now [10:31] I tend to sleep when the sun is up :p === dippie [n=void@g185112.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #upstart === mbiebl [n=michael@dslb-084-056-231-253.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #upstart === sh1t [n=sh1t@201.242.179.87] has joined #upstart === sh1t [n=sh1t@201.242.179.87] has left #upstart ["Ex-Chat"] === mbiebl [n=michael@dslb-084-056-231-253.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #upstart === mbiebl [n=michael@dslb-084-056-231-253.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #upstart