ajmitchcan we attach files to bugs by email yet?12:09
Fujitsuajmitch, nope.12:10
FujitsuI was looking at that bug last night.12:10
FujitsuThere's no way to do merges properly without using the web interface D:12:11
FujitsuAnd wouldn't it be nice if LP exposed a sane machine-parsable interface so external applications could be written to access it, rather than having things like Conseil parse the HTML?12:12
ajmitchit will12:12
Keybuk"do merges" ?12:12
FujitsuKeybuk, file merge requests.12:12
Fujitsu(with debdiffs)12:12
Fujitsu(for non-devs)12:13
KeybukI still don't follow?  Why do you use LP for that?12:13
ajmitchthere are teams on launchpad for sponsoring uploads12:14
FujitsuKeybuk, the new merge workflow means non-MOTUs have to file bugs, attach debdiffs, and subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors to get a change done.12:14
FujitsuIt's not a bad system, except that it can't be automated.12:14
mdzFujitsu: launchpad has an XML-RPC interface12:20
Fujitsumdz, I read on the Launchpad wiki that it didn't have it yet...12:20
FujitsuHow long has it had it, and where is it documented?12:21
FujitsuWhen I asked a couple of months ago they didn't have it.12:21
mdzprobably on help.launchpad.net somewhere12:21
FujitsuYes, I'm checking now...12:22
FujitsuThanks :)12:22
mdzsearching for 'rpc' on the front page finds it12:22
ajmitchmdz: bug 61550, anything else you want on it?12:22
UbugtuMalone bug 61550 in f-spot "UVF exception request for f-spot 0.2.1" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/6155012:22
mdzit doesn't support attachments or subscriptions yet as far as I know12:22
mdzajmitch: it's a new feature release :-/12:24
ajmitchmdz: yeah, that's why I wasn't sure of getting it 12:24
mdzajmitch: I'd appreciate a more detailed rationale; I commented on the bug12:25
ajmitchthanks for looking12:25
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Fujitsumdz, I wouldn't say that Launchpad had an XML-RPC interface... I'd say that Malone had a severely crippled attempt at an XML-RPC method for filing bugs.12:25
FujitsuBut it's a start.12:26
elmoFujitsu: it has an XML-RPC interface that's a WIP12:26
Fujitsuelmo, there is actually some work being done on it?12:26
elmono, we just added the functionality to taunt and tease people tantalus-style12:27
elmo(or: yes, of course it is)12:27
FujitsuOK, good :_)12:27
=== Kamion scratches his head at ubiquity. It's only displaying rows in the mountpoints table after you go back to gparted and forward again ...
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fdsdhey guys does edgy still use usplash?12:29
Fujitsufdsd, it's completely different, but yes.12:29
fdsdFujitsu, is there a guide on how to change the boot splash?12:30
Fujitsufdsd, yes, but I can't remember where it is.12:30
FujitsuOn the wiki somewhere, I think.12:30
fdsdFujitsu, okay, I made my own project out of the stable livecds but the kernel used on the ppc version has issues with firewire so I would like to modify edgy (powerpc) live cd to do the same thing.. 12:31
Burgworkfdsd, talk to Sevea12:35
Burgworkseveas, rather12:36
fdsdBurgwork, okay12:36
FujitsuYes, Seveas is master of all things usplash-customisation.12:36
fdsdBurgwork, lol sounds good12:36
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fdsdDo you guys know if its possible to use the egdy knot 3 powerpc kernel and insert it into stable?, I modified the initrd files to include the /lib/modules dir, but it just stalls at boot12:38
fdsdany idea?12:38
SpadsAlso I love how people think ftp is "File TRansfer Program"12:38
fdsdinto the livecd12:38
fdsdgnomefreak, yeah I use that howto for stable, but how about for edgy knot 3?12:39
gnomefreaki havent tried it yet im assuming the same12:39
Kamiontotally different12:40
gnomefreakthe alternatives file and everything else needed hasnt changed names that im aware of12:40
fdsdyeah I figured it looks completely different12:40
Kamionpngtobogl -> pngtousplash12:40
fdsdthere is a new utility?12:41
Kamionyou need to write a short C file with theme structures in it12:41
Kamionit's basically just a renaming because usplash doesn't always use BOGL any more, and in principle the structures might not stay the same12:41
Kamiondon't use vga= any more12:41
fdsdI see, so is there a howto?12:41
Kamionnot to my knowledge12:41
KamionI'd grab one of the existing usplash theme packages and poke around12:42
Kamionusplash-theme-ubuntu should be reasonable12:42
fdsdKamion, does pngtousplash make the C file with the theme stuctures?12:42
Kamionpngtousplash just converts a .png file to a C file representing that .png12:42
fdsdpngtousplash usplash-artwork.png > usplash-artwork.c12:43
Kamionbut you need a C wrapper that includes to potentially multiple such files and provides structure descriptions of them12:43
Kamionsee usplash-theme-ubuntu.c12:43
Kamions/includes to/includes/12:43
jdubKamion: who is dealing with mozcorp re: firefox stuff atm?12:43
Kamionactually s/includes/links/, you don't need to #include them12:43
Kamionjdub: dunno, sorry12:43
fdsdKamion, where can I find that package12:43
Kamionfdsd: apt-get source usplash-theme-ubuntu - it's in edgy12:44
fdsdKamion, I dont have ubuntu installed right now12:44
Kamionwell pick it out of archive.ubuntu.com in the usual way12:44
Kamionyou're on #ubuntu-devel so I expect you know :-)12:44
fdsdKamion, ok12:44
fdsdKamion, im a guest12:44
Kamions/know/know or can make educated guesses/12:45
fdsdKamion, well I have12:46
Kamionalso if you aren't running Ubuntu you will have difficulty building theme packages12:46
Kamionyou need to have libusplash-dev installed12:46
fdsdKamion, I will install it to modify it12:47
=== jdub roars laughing
jdub"I haven't been this excited since the introduction of devfs." - Mark Rosenstand on upstart-devel list12:49
mjg59Promising. Erm.12:49
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slomo_infinity: ping?01:00
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NafalloKamion: you just synced erlang and ejabberd? :-)01:07
Nafallos/just// ;-)01:07
Nafallothanks in that case :-)01:07
FujitsuNafallo, not really just... It was quite some time ago :P01:07
NafalloFujitsu: you, noticed now :-)01:07
KamionNafallo: no01:07
fdsdHey guys, Do you know what the pool directory is on the ubuntu livecd?01:07
Nafallohm, so thanks whoever did that :-)01:08
Kamionfdsd: it's for various packages that we want to make available after installation but don't actually want to have preinstalled01:08
FujitsuNafallo, about 50 minutes ago.01:08
fdsdKamion, oh cool01:08
Kamionfdsd: chiefly for unusual network access methods and means to bootstrap yourself up for such (i.e. compiler and kernel headers)01:08
Kamionthough I think the latter are in desktop now01:09
Kamionsee http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/seeds/edgy/ship-live for the top-level list of things in there01:09
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fdsdKamion, I am trying to take the kernel from the edgy powerpc knot3 live cd and put it in the 6.06 desktop powerpc livecd, I extracted the vmlinuz files put them in /casper/powerpc and /boot/  and transfered /lib/modules over and inserted them also into the initrd.gz file, do you know if I need to do anything else?01:11
KamionI thought there was a minor kernel/udev compatibility issue with using edgy's kernel on dapper01:12
Kamionbut others would know more than I on that01:12
fdsdKamion, it hangs on boot01:12
jdongdon't you kind of need kernel modules?01:12
KamionI imagine you screwed up one of the many steps required to get the above procedure exactly right01:12
jdongoh, nvm01:13
=== jdong needs to learn to read
Kamionyes, you'll also need to update /lib/modules in the squashfs01:13
Kamionbut it's probably not that01:13
fdsdKamion, I did01:13
Kamionmy guess is you got the initrd.gz format wrong01:13
Kamioncheck mkinitramfs for exactly how it creates it01:13
fdsdKamion, I modified the initrd.gz all the time for usplash01:13
KamionI don't know then, sorry01:13
Kamionupgrading the kernel is not an easy task - it takes us a while to cope with the fallout each time, these days01:14
fdsdI thought it might have to do with the new init process01:15
jdubtseng: ping01:15
Kamionfdsd: no, not if you didn't suck in upstart01:15
Kamionthe new kernel doesn't require upstart01:15
jdubslomo_: ping01:15
slomo_jdong: pong01:15
slomo_oh, wrong one01:15
=== jdong bumps jdub/jdong counter to 6
jdubslomo_: you planning to migrate all mono stuff to 2.0?01:16
slomo_jdub: no that would be insane and useless... why?01:16
fdsdKamion, I guess I can just modify the knot 3 livecd, hopefully someone will post a howto on how to modify the usplash 01:16
jdubslomo_: just noticed that banshee has cranked up01:16
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slomo_jdub: but f-spot and banshee upstream switched over... so we'll get 2.0 stuff slowly01:17
jdubslomo_: for edgy?01:17
Kamionnot unless there's a damn good reason, at this point01:17
jdubjust worried we're going to have yucky duplicate action01:17
Burgworkslomo_, that would be Kamion sharpening his knives ;)01:18
jdubthough thus far not on the desktop CD01:18
slomo_jdub: f-spot no... but banshee already is and we also have some other 2.0 stuff in universe already01:18
BurgworkKamion, is there a reason why still have gthumb on the desktop cd?01:18
jdubmmm, good point01:19
slomo_jdub: if upstream switches we switch too... but everything else just makes no sense :)01:19
KamionBurgwork: the arguments did not appear conclusive to me01:20
BurgworkKamion, arguments over which to ship or over whether or not they are duplicative?01:20
micahcowanthe latter01:20
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KamionBurgwork: arguments on whether f-spot provided everything that real gthumb users actually needed01:21
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Burgworkah, taht01:21
Kamionit is possible to duplicate much of something's functionality without providing a complete replacement01:21
jdubKamion: and the only reason this matters is because we've shipped gthumb previously?01:22
Kamionjdub: yes01:22
jdubconsidering that 'real gthumb users' will get it via upgrade, how much does that matter?01:22
Kamionanyway, I'm not that interested in the discussion, we aren't desperately short of space right now and we found a number of very lucrative ways of saving space01:22
Kamiontake it up with a core developer who cares ;)01:22
jdubwhat are the other space-saving changes?01:23
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mjg59Kamion: ubiquity seems to have rewritten my partition table even though I didn't change its contents?01:24
jdubKamion: (who ultimately makes that decision? isn't it roughly you?)01:24
tsengjdub: hello01:24
mjg59It's possible that it didn't - I failed to check properly beforehand01:24
jdubyo tseng 01:24
Kamionmove the Ubuntu book to online content only, recode the video to make more sensible use of space, vim -> vim-tiny, console-* -> console-setup, ongoing work on recoding .pngs, on-the-fly PPD generation, getting rid of some other unused printing stuff, probably more stuff I forgot01:24
infinityjdub: Whoever collects a rough concensus from a few people and then edits the seeds.01:24
Kamionjdub: anyone in core-dev can edit the seeds; final decision in case of conflict would be the technical board, of which I am not a member01:25
tsengjdub: whats up?01:25
jdubi guess i'll talk to sebuild and dhbuild01:25
micahcowanBurgwork, the thread discussing gthumb/f-spot is quite large, but you can see it at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2006-July/thread.html#19593 (the mono one)01:25
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jdubtseng: ended up pinging slomo01:26
tsengjdub: oh01:26
tsengjdub: thats always a good idea01:26
tsengslomo is brilliant01:26
Burgworkmicahcowan, I remember that, but it never came to a conclusion01:26
tsengI'm useless01:26
Kamionalmost all the above changes were more lucrative than gthumb, but they did not attract as much attention because people find it harder to think about more subtle but more worthwhile changes rather than "omg let's remove an application at a time"01:26
ajmitchat the moment gthumb is still used as the default import action01:26
Kamionmjg59: happy to look at a partman log, if you used manual partitioning01:27
mjg59Kamion: Sure01:27
mjg59I'll take a look myself first01:27
Kamionmjg59: and it's also entirely possible that partman will do that anyway *shrug*01:27
Kamionit's probably a bug, but where to start ...01:27
jdubKamion: i'm not raising it as a matter of gaining space01:28
micahcowanBurgwork, I think the (non-explicit) conclusion was more or less that there were enough people who needed feature-sets in the one that weren't in the other, that they were both necessary (although I still don't see why that means they both have to be on the CD, along with mono). But I just don't care enough about it to be bothered.01:28
Kamionjdub: I was explicitly raising it as a matter of gaining space, originally01:28
Kamionand most people talk about it in those terms01:28
Kamion"why are we wasting space on this when we could be using it on such-and-such"01:28
ajmitchjdub: f-spot --view still sucks, and being feature stuff won't really see love for edgy01:29
jdubajmitch: yeah, i'm thinking the major use case people are concerned about is porn, and they don't want porn in their photo management application01:29
Keybukworryingly, that's probably true :p01:30
tsengjdub: and then there are the people that refuse to accept they are part of the Matrix01:30
=== ajmitch blames those warty backgrounds...
Fujitsuajmitch, haha.01:30
tsengjdub: er.. that you can sort photos w/o directories01:30
Keybukthough I find nautilus and eog fine for viewing porn01:30
KeybukI get to tile multiple pleasing pictures01:30
tsengjdub: we don't free a mind past a certain age01:30
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jdubKeybuk: and set them as backgrounds? :)01:31
FujitsuThis is the second time this has come up in 48 hours :P01:31
Keybukjdub: heh, yes01:31
Keybukit's much funnier when poeple see screenshots then01:31
Burgworkmicahcowan, I saw a lot of edge use cases01:31
infinityslomo_: pong01:32
micahcowanBurgwork, yeah.01:32
jdubKeybuk: "is this your sister's laptop?"01:32
Kamionmicahcowan: (f-spot wasn't the first thing that dragged mono in)01:32
Keybukmono is vaguely interesting01:32
slomo_infinity: (please give-back tomboy on sparc) do you have any ETA for apache2-dev and apache-dev beeing installable at the same time again? :)01:33
Keybukfor a while it seemed to be the poster child of GNOME's future01:33
jdubwow, this thread was totally derailed by noise and uninteresting goals01:33
Keybukbut the wind seems to be blowing towards Python at the moment01:33
infinityslomo_: https://launchpad.net/+builds/+build/247087/  <-- Already done.01:33
FujitsuKeybuk, good.01:33
Kamioninfinity: oh, while you're here, livefs cron jobs?01:33
infinityslomo_: As for apache, it'll get done after I do some "OMG, beta freeze" stuff for the day.01:33
infinityKamion: Done last night.01:33
micahcowanKamion, oh. Tomboy, right?  Didn't remember that it had started there and moved on to f-spot.01:33
tsengKeybuk: people who equated mono with The One Future were faux-journalists misquoting miguel01:33
slomo_infinity: oh... you're too fast for me :) thanks01:33
Kamioninfinity: ah, cool, thanks01:33
Kamionmicahcowan: right01:34
ajmitchjdub: I have fix for f-spot --view crashing here to upload01:34
jdubKeybuk: i added that "haven't been this excited since devfs" comment to my sig file ;)01:34
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KeybukFujitsu: why good?  surely the more languages we have complete development environments for, the better?01:34
Keybukjdong: lol01:34
Keybukjdub: lol01:34
KeybukI mean01:34
KeybukI spent all of yesterday evening getting "MOST IMPORTANT CHANGE IN 30 YEARS!!" jokes01:34
jdubKeybuk: that was GOLD01:34
jdubKeybuk: where's that? lugradio?01:34
Kamionmicahcowan: I parenthesised it because I don't think it's especially critical, and could be removed if we really wanted - although now that we've got a lot of PR saying that we're going to be shipping Mono by default in edgy, it's hard to go back01:34
KeybukI'm a guest on Monday's show01:35
jdubshould be a good episode01:35
jdubcute boys, cute girls01:35
=== Keybuk hums the "Pia Waugh" song
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tsengKamion: I wouldnt cry, for the record01:35
Keybukit's interesting01:36
Keybukwhat would we put on instead of mono?01:36
tsengKamion: One cd is one of our most important features01:36
Keybukif you said "telepathy, farsight, galago and avahi"01:36
Keybukthen I would wave mono goodbye today01:36
micahcowanKamion, yes, I heard that argument. I thought it was a little humorous, because at the time people started arguing about whether to include mono, the response to space issues was that we had a decent amount of space at that time. Now that we /are/ hitting space boundaries, and the question was asked regarding what to remove, the first thing that was said was that mono isn't attractive because now that we've got it in there, it's given us good PR 01:36
Keybukbut f-spot is damned nice01:36
ajmitchdamn, added fix to wrong bzr branch01:36
slomo_Keybuk: avahi is not interesting... only avahi-daemon is missing ;)01:36
Kamionmicahcowan: I don't think anyone actually researched the space issues before saying that ...01:37
Kamionthey just said "yeah sure loads of space let's go shopping"01:37
KeybukI'd still rather see OpenOffice go away, and get replaced by something that's not fucking awful01:37
Keybukbut sadly that something doesn't exist01:37
micahcowanYes, I thought it was a weak argument in the first place. Like running into space issues wasn't already a given, whether or not we had actually done so yet :/01:37
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Kamionnobody observed that, if nothing else, we're *always* anxious for more space to shove localisation into01:38
Keybukdo we really need 20MB of games on the CD?01:38
Kamionand that there were known things that were going to arrive later in the cycle and clamour for space01:38
micahcowanWell, but we'll never actually have /that/ sort of space (on the CD) will we?01:38
micahcowanKeybuk, IMHO, including a decent amount of quality games is a good PR move.01:38
Kamionthe games are quite a good draw for new users, I've found01:38
micahcowan(look at me! I'm using the same argument I was just deriding re: mono!)01:38
KeybukI agree, but then I also thing a good photo management app is a good draw for new users *and* at the same time a good PR move due to including mono01:39
Kamionmy parents sat for long enough playing the games that it became embedded in their heads that Ubuntu was worth a try, and they've been playing around more since :)01:39
ajmitchapprox what time is beta freeze? end of thurs?01:39
jdubKeybuk: that should totally be fixed upstream... what a mess.01:39
Kamion20MB does seem a bit too much though01:39
Kamionajmitch: traditionally, start of distro team meeting01:39
KeybukI converted two users to Ubuntu with f-spot alone01:39
micahcowanKeybuk, well, as Kamion already pointed out, mono wasn't brought in for f-spot (but for Tomboy).01:39
Keybuk(well, f-spot and gphoto)01:39
jdongKeybuk: YES we need 20MB of games on the livecd01:39
micahcowanKeybuk, awesome.01:39
jdongwhat the hell else am I supposed to do watching ubiquity? :)01:39
ajmitchKamion: thanks01:40
Keybukjdong: I always press Alt+F4 during the installer to look at what it's really doing01:40
Keybuk...this doesn't work so well with u6y :(01:40
Kamionsucks to be Keybuk ;)01:40
jdubKeybuk: ha ha ha01:40
jdongKeybuk: that's about as entertaining as watching a gentoo install01:40
Kamionmaybe I should rebind alt-f4 to a "Hi Scott!" dialog01:40
=== micahcowan thinks sgt-puzzles should be among the games included on the CD.
Kamionmicahcowan: yes!01:41
Kamionmicahcowan: (Simon's a friend of mine, lives a few streets away ...)01:41
Keybukthere really is a random bunch of crap on the CD though01:41
Kamionthe games there are much higher quality than many of the GNOME games, IMHO01:42
micahcowanKamion, really? That's frikking awesome. Where do you live, anyway? (no, I'm not gonna stalk either you or sgt ;o)01:42
Kamionalthough possibly not quite so much UI focus, though it's not dreadful01:42
Kamionmicahcowan: Cambridge, England01:42
micahcowanKamion, totally, totally agreed. I'm personally impressed by his proven-solvable mines implementation, and I really enjoy playing netgame).01:42
jdubKamion: hrm, perhaps we should do some introductions01:42
KeybukKamion: I'm increasingly wondering whether the time is fast coming where we start shipping localised CDs01:43
KamionKeybuk: *shudder*01:43
Keybuktesting nightmare though01:43
jdubKeybuk: YAY NO SHIPIT!01:43
Kamionright, to both01:43
Kamionthough shipit wants to be devolved eventually anyway01:43
infinityI look forward to the day when CDs go the way of the floppy, and we can just throw DVDs at everyone.01:44
infinityOf course, I also look forward to getting 10 times the bandwidth, so I can download DVD ISOs and test them...01:44
jdubKamion: that's what i mean; without shipit to worry about, things like that become slightly more viable01:44
ajmitchinfinity: of course the software grows to fill the DVD01:44
KeybukVista is only shipped on DVD01:45
Keybukso it may not be seen as unreasonable if we start doing the same01:45
KeybukI think OS X is only on DVD too01:45
Kamionjdub: the combinatorial testing thing is still a very valid argument though, IMHO01:45
infinityKeybuk: Vista is only meant for new hardware, and is not distributed on the internet, so they have two wins over us there.01:45
Keybukinfinity: I don't think it's unreasonable to say that Ubuntu is only meant for modern hardware01:45
Kamionand I'm very concerned about giving the official Ubuntu stamp to localised CDs that we haven't QAed01:45
jdubKamion: did that layering stuff happen? (filesystems with only language stuff in them vs. filesystem with system files, then building CDs by switching language filesystems)?01:46
Keybukwe can always have a CD-shipped bling-less derivative for lower hardware01:46
Kamionjdub: -> infinity - it was nearly there last I checked01:46
jdubinfinity: ^?01:46
Kamionjdub: though possibly not that specific thing, but the underlying technology01:46
infinityIt's rolling out today, though we've certainly not attacked using it for localisation.01:46
infinity(Though we'll use it to ship a live dvd with all the langpacks...)01:46
alex-weejanyone else noticed audio stops playing very often when installing packages, etc., with the new CPU scheduling stuff?01:46
jdubmight reduce the feeling of sickness about combinatorial test fuckage somewhat01:47
BurgworkKamion, the gnome-games maintainers have started a process to pull in better games01:47
micahcowanHey Kamion, ooc what OS does sgt run (primarily) on his computer?01:47
infinityjdub: Still need to boot the final ISO for each one, and see if the langpack plays along okay.01:47
jdubinfinity: thus 'feeling of sickness'01:47
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Keybukinfinity: interestingly, using the "recommended spec" guide we established; edgy+1 can recommend a Dual Core 64-bit capable processor, 1GB RAM, High Performance 3D card, 160GB drive and a combo CD-RW/DVD drive01:48
alex-weejwhy do you need a CD-RW?01:49
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jdubalex-weej: thanks for enhancing the absurdity01:49
Keybukalex-weej: the "recommended spec" guide is "what you can buy from Dell for $500 at the _start_ of the development process for that release"01:49
jdongKeybuk: yikes! what on earth!01:49
Keybuk(ie. a cheap PC that's already 6 months out of date)01:49
Kamionanyone have any idea why a GtkTable might allegedly have the right number of rows/columns, but the children I've added dynamically (as opposed to being in glade) completely fail to display? this is the ubiquity mountpoints table ...01:49
jdongKeybuk: since when was that necessary to run ubuntu?01:49
Keybukjdong: that is recommended since edgy+101:50
ajmitchjdong: recommended, not required01:50
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Kamionmicahcowan: err, iirc Windows and Debian, although I think he flirted with OS X too for a bit01:50
Keybukerr, that wollen is been recommendeding sonce to edgy+101:50
jdongKeybuk: what warrants that recommendation though?01:50
Keybukjdong: you appear to be misunderstanding01:51
Keybukwhen we talked about this a while back, we needed some kind of metric for deciding what kind of things were acceptable to require, and what kind of things weren't01:52
Keybukin particular, memory usage; but it also applies to building features around the availability of a 3D graphics card (mmm.. compiz)01:52
jdongI see01:53
Keybukso we came up with the idea that a given release of Ubuntu should not require anything more than a $500 PC bought online from a major retailer 6 months previously to the release01:53
jdongok, and recommends is if you put as much shiny stuff onto ubuntu as you physically can...01:54
Kamionwhile I see the point, I think we would need to check whether this is in fact at all in touch with our userbase01:54
jdubi think this is an elaborate scheme for keybuk to get new $500 PCs bought from major retailers every six months01:54
Keybukright, this is just recommends, not requires01:54
jdongKeybuk: what are you looking at for requires?01:54
Keybukjdong: we just make that up as we go along <g>01:54
Kamion"... that a given release of Ubuntu should not require ..."01:54
Kamiondid you mean "should not recommend" then?01:55
KeybukI'm probably the only person who actually knows the minimum spec edgy can boot on01:55
Kamionor something that actually makes sense :)01:55
KeybukKamion: yes, sorry, thinko01:55
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BurgworkKamion, what does hdwb give us? might it be possible to plan an hwdb-ng for edgy+1 to collect better stats and also help the laptop|server testing programs?01:55
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KamionBurgwork: hwdb has always been a bit of a mystery to me, I must admit01:55
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KeybukBurgwork: that would assume that people would not be upgrading their machine at the same time as their operating system01:55
KamionI agree that it ought to be involved if possibl01:56
Keybukwhich I think is an invalid assumption01:56
bddebianHowdy folks01:56
KamionKeybuk: the converse is also an invalid assumption, though01:56
KamionKeybuk: otherwise we wouldn't provide the dist-upgrader01:56
KeybukI don't disagree01:56
BurgworkKamion, it is a giant group of flat files, afaik01:56
Keybukhowever we do need a metric to make decisions like "enable compiz by default, and treat it as a feature" against01:56
=== ajmitch tends towards upgrades every 2-3 years (or in case of theft :) )
KamionBurgwork: the backend, right, but I don't even know what information it stores :)01:57
BurgworkKeybuk, if we get a new program created and a new db, we can answer those questions better01:57
jdubapparently hwdb-client is not longer required01:57
Kamiondetails of format are a bit irrelevant - that can be recoded01:57
infinityDebian (and derivatives) pretty much encourages keeping old hardware, since it's easy to upgrade.  The "throw out the machine and get a new one with a new OS" thing is more likely in the Windows world where you pretty much have to reinstall *anyway*.01:57
Keybukand I don't think that "does a 6-month old entry-level PC support that" is unreasonable in this regard01:57
alex-weejinfinity: actually it's not true, you can prepare a Windows installation for a hardware gutting, and the next time it boots it does all HW detection and setup again but keeps everything else intact01:58
Keybuk(fwiw. the required ram for edgy should probably be stated as 256MB)01:58
BurgworkKamion, yep. it tests a few basic things, like sound and networking and then sends the cpu type, amount of ram, harddrive size, etc.01:58
infinityalex-weej: I was referring to upgrading the OS.01:58
tsengalex-weej: we arent talking about expert users nessecarily, anyway01:58
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infinityalex-weej: Like, if you instend to get vista, and you know you're reinstalling anyway, you'll be more tempted to reinstall to new hardware.01:58
alex-weejinfinity: ah ok i understand01:59
Keybukinfinity: why is this bad for new releases of ubuntu?01:59
infinityalex-weej: Whereas, if yo uintend to get edgy, you just dist-upgrade.01:59
BurgworkKamion, http://hwdb.ubuntu.com/?xml=8784c7ac0118f31e4c134ed87205161501:59
alex-weejtbh i'd say 6 month-old entry level is the equivalent of a 24 month-old top-end machine - something to bear in mind02:00
infinityKeybuk: With upgrading being so easy, when I see update-manager offer to upgrade my OS, I'm not going to say "hey, this is a good time to go buy a new computer", I'm just going to say "new OS?  sure!" and upgrade my existing machine.02:00
Keybukalex-weej: yes, that was very deliberate02:00
Keybukinfinity: so you're saying that we should never add a feature to Ubuntu if it could possibly increase the RAM, CPU or other hardware requirements on the system?02:01
infinityKeybuk: You know I'm not saying that. :)02:01
Keybukit's not an unreasonable position, and if adopted, I have a long list of things we need to remove that have been added since warty ;)02:01
Keybukinfinity: right... but then what are you saying? :p02:01
infinityKeybuk: Though, if thta would somehow get rid of OpenOffice, I'll stand behind that position firmly. :)02:01
Keybukoddly enough oo2 is in that list, yes02:02
Keybukit's drastically larger than oo102:02
infinityKeybuk: I'm just prodiving the flipside of the "people buy new machines for new OSs" coin, really.  Which I think is much less likely in our world, since we've removed the one thing that tends to trigger that response (requiring a fresh install on upgrade)02:02
Keybukinfinity: I'm not disagreeing with you here ;)02:02
alex-weejOOo still feels like some kind of after-market spoiler kit to me02:03
KeybukI happen to think that the minimum required specification should not change since warty02:03
Keybukbut that's sadly impossible, it seems :-/02:03
alex-weejone that just looks like an ironing board02:03
Keybukthough edgy has reduced it slightly compared to breezy02:03
Keybukbut then there's a difference between "required" and "recommended"02:03
infinity(I know my parents bought a new machine for each of Win95, Win2K, and WinXP, but I doubt they'd have been so religious about it if they were doing incremental Ubuntu or Debian upgrades)02:03
Keybukmaybe the dist-upgrader should actually *check* the system, and not display a "upgrade now!" if the system wouldn't meet the requirements?02:03
Keybukor perhaps be more useful and suggest hardware upgrades?02:04
infinityKeybuk: Not presenting an upgrade option would be a bit harsh, but warning that the system kinda sucks would be cool.02:04
infinity"Your video card is bling-free, and your RAM is pitiful."02:04
jdonglol, warning that the system kinda sucks02:04
Kamion"your father was a hamster"02:04
jdong"Infinity has said that your computer blows"02:05
Keybuk"Leaping Lion recommends the use of a 4D graphics card; you can purchase one from INTEL"02:05
jdong"Dist-upgrader cannot continue. apt-get upgrade-your-damn-hardware has failed"02:05
infinityKeybuk: Making vendor recommendations feels wrong to me.02:06
Keybukinfinity: it's been proposed for hardware in general "you bought an Nvidia, IDIOT! Go buy INTEL!"02:06
infinityKeybuk: But "any video card manufactured in this century should do, you dumpster-diving freak", I could live with.02:06
Burgworkinfinity, it is hard, given a lack of standard critera to judge computer bits by02:06
jdub"NOT. FUCKING. LIKELY."02:06
jdongjdub: LOL02:06
jdongmaybe a "blunt" localization would be nice02:07
=== jdong wonders if rosetta can do that magic
alex-weejcan we just get a big flashing red ACCESS DENIED!02:07
alex-weejand a robot woman with a british accent02:07
jdonghave Ubuntu swear at you for making typos in sources.list or typing in wrong commands02:07
infinityOddly enough, the big red ACCESS DENIED was deemed unfriendly.02:07
alex-weejhow the fuck is it unfriendly02:07
alex-weejevery single person on the planet who has seen any movie with a computer in02:08
alex-weejknows that when it flashes red and says ACCESS DENIED02:08
alex-weejyou made a boo boo02:08
=== micahcowan takes it that #ubuntu-devel isn't meant to be "family-friendly"? :)
HrdwrBoBalex-weej: no, it means you have to hack it02:08
HrdwrBoBwhich requires ~30 seconds of random keypresses02:08
jdongmicahcowan: we tend to drift in and out of that zone :)02:08
infinityWhich is vaguely what my password looks like.02:08
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Keybukso it turns out that you *really* don't want usplash to flip back to tty1 now04:33
Keybukeven in the case of timeout04:33
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fdsdKamion, thanks, I figured out how to modify the usplash on edgy thanks to you:)04:45
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Keybukmdz: in fact, it appears that the vt flip is deep inside svgalib04:50
mdzKeybuk: #@$@#%04:50
bddebianHey, watch the language :-)04:51
Keybukat least I've learned that the code inside usplash is busted, even after Colin "fixed" it :p04:52
Keybuk$ grep ioctl *04:53
Keybuk^ <g>04:53
imbrandonmoins Keybuk & mdz 04:54
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KeybukI still can't work out why /dev/console seems to change with svgalib usplash, but not with bogl usplash04:58
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Keybukdoko has DoS'd the i386 buildds05:06
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Hobbseehah.  oh dear05:07
fdsdhey guys, How do I make edgy knot3 boot to the shell with no login?>05:09
Keybuksingle user mode?05:11
Keybukchoose the "(recovery mode)" option from grub?05:11
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fdsdI have gdm turned off, and I need it to autologin , like how 6.06 does with its livecd05:12
Keybukneed gdm to autologin?05:12
fdsdI turn off gdm05:12
Keybukthen what do you want to autologin?05:12
fdsdthe shell05:12
fdsdafter usplash it says username and password, I want it to go directly into my user05:13
fabbionemorning guys05:14
zulevening fabbione 05:14
ajmitchhey fabbione 05:14
fdsdKeybuk, do you know what I mean?05:14
Keybukedit /etc/event.d/tty1 and change the "respawn /sbin/getty..." to "respawn /bin/login -f $USERNAME"05:15
ajmitchmdz: added some info to the f-spot request05:15
Keybuk(where $USERNAME is whatever you want to login as)05:15
Keybukyou'll obviously need to remove the password from that user account too05:15
fdsdKeybuk, cool05:15
Keybukmdz: so I got rid of the vt flip ...05:16
Keybuk... which made X crash on startup05:16
mdzKeybuk: ...05:16
mdzthat's a neat trick. how does it crash X?05:16
HobbseeKeybuk: by chance, did you happen to upload that to the archives?05:17
Keybukmdz: who knows05:17
Keybukmdz: you can crash X by just making any process receive ^C for /dev/console :p05:17
fabbioneyou can crash X just running it!05:18
=== fabbione hides
Keybukfabbione: that appears to be what's happening here, yes05:18
Keybukit starts, and then seems to decide to go back to bed05:19
fabbioneKeybuk: ehhe05:19
fabbionewhat's the bug exactly?05:20
Keybukfabbione: trying to stop usplash switching to VT 1 when it terminates05:20
fdsdKeybuk, how to do I remove the password for the user?05:20
=== fabbione still has nightmares debugging X but might help
Keybukfdsd: passwd -d $USERNAME05:20
Keybukfabbione: hmm, it didn't do it that time05:21
fabbioneKeybuk: so... boot -> end of boot -> X starts -> vt1 -> stop usplash -> world goes boom05:21
Keybukboot -> stop usplash -> vt1 -> X starts05:21
Keybukwhich looks ugly05:21
Keybukso I made it just stop usplash -> X starts05:22
fabbioneand that makes world suck..05:22
Keybukwhich just leaves you on a corrupt VT 8, and X isn't running05:22
fabbioneis it possible to simulate that without reboots?05:22
fabbioneya know.. to get sshd and be able to fire up something useful05:23
Keybukdunno yet, still trying to work out what went wrong05:23
KeybukI'm wondering whether usplash hooks the vt flip code to revert VT 8 to text mode05:24
Keybukso without the vt flip, it leaves it graphical05:24
fabbioneif it happens only at boot and it's not reproducible otherwise, it will be hell to debug05:24
Keybuktypically it's not doing it _now_05:24
fabbionewho can reproduce it constantly?05:25
Keybuknobody ;p  it only occurs on my machine, with the hacked version of usplash that doesn't flip vts :p05:25
=== Hobbsee can reproduce X dying constantly with the new kernel, but i dont think that's what you want.
Hobbseeinfinity: you around?05:25
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infinityHobbsee: For another hour or so, yes.  'sup?05:27
Hobbseeinfinity: there's a section of kde-guidance sitting in binary NEW - any chance you could shove that thru before i go nuts?05:27
Hobbseei'm not sure what it's called, sorry05:27
=== Hobbsee has no power manager, which means her laptop keeps dying, as she doesnt get alerts :P
Keybukmdz: oh, even better reason why the vt flip is needed :-/05:28
infinityErm, I thought I NEWed that eons ago..05:28
Keybukwhen gdm terminates, it actives the console it was on when it was started05:28
ajmitchHobbsee: sorry, go nuts? :)05:28
Hobbseeinfinity: apparently not as of last night?05:28
Keybukwhich means gdm stop would flip to vt 805:28
infinityHobbsee: Yes, actually...05:28
Hobbseeajmitch: well, more crazy than i am already05:28
fabbioneKeybuk: we have 2 options in X that might help you05:28
Keybuk... though that explains why splash_down doesn't work <g>  gdm starts usplash, then flips to VT 1, killing it05:28
fabbioneKeybuk: -sharevts and -novtswitch05:29
infinityHobbsee: kde-guidance | 0.6.7svn20060919-0ubuntu1 |          edgy | source, amd64, i386, ia64, powerpc, sparc05:29
infinityHobbsee: It's up-to-date and in the archive on all arches.05:29
Keybukfabbione: it consistently doesn't crash for me now ... so I think I'm going to pretend it never happened <g>05:29
Hobbseeinfinity: the source got split into two binaries, i believe.  i'll ask further05:29
fabbioneKeybuk: i am sure it will crash here after you upload :P05:29
fabbioneKeybuk: you know.. that fabbione'fs magic all together with my baby crying thingy05:29
Hobbseein fact, the changelog says it has.05:29
infinityHobbsee: Perhaps you just need to install 'kde-guidance-powermanager'?05:30
infinityHobbsee: (which is also in the archive.. I can't just accept a single binary without accepting the whole upload) :)05:30
Hobbseeinfinity: ahhh....thanks :)05:30
Hobbseeinfinity: much appreciated.05:30
=== Hobbsee wonders why that isnt a dep of kubuntu-desktop
infinityHobbsee: If there are broken dependencies there or things need seeding or something, bug Riddell. :)05:30
fabbioneKeybuk: anyway i pasted to you the option you might find useful to debug if the problem shows up again05:30
=== Hobbsee seemed to miss that, when she looked last night
fabbioneKeybuk: not all of them are documented afaict05:31
Hobbseeinfinity: or just fix them.  although i wouldnt know about the seeding, i guess05:31
Hobbseeinfinity: thanks again05:31
Keybukmdz: ah, taking out the vt switch *does* fix splash_down :p05:31
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fdsdKeybuk, I am getting an error with tty1, init: tty1 process (3484) terminated with status 105:34
mdzKeybuk: perhaps usplash should be stopped after X starts? or does that prevent it from cleaning up the terminal properly?05:34
fabbioneinfinity, ajmitch: i won't be able to fire up the buildd till monday FYI.  My wife invited guests and i can't keep them awake 2/3 days05:34
ajmitchfabbione: fine by me05:34
=== ajmitch will be away all weekend anyway :)
Keybukfdsd: check it works05:35
infinityfabbione: Good 'nuff.  Should be a good, quiet time to do it (beta freeze, yay)05:35
Keybukmdz: that prevents console-setup from being run05:35
fabbioneSAN + SUN = more noise than airplane05:35
fdsdKeybuk, hmm, ok05:35
zulfabbione: tell me about it05:35
Keybukfdsd: ie. the command you put in there05:35
fabbionezul: yes i do tell you.. the stuff you have there isn't noisy at all compared to Niagara machines05:36
fdsdKeybuk, could you post it one more time, my irc buffer just lost it05:36
Keybukrespawn /bin/login -f $USER05:37
Keybuk(replace $USER with your username)05:37
fdsdKeybuk, i have exactly that05:38
Keybukexactly that?  with the $USER? :p05:38
fdsdrespawn /bin/login -f stimm05:38
mdzKeybuk: I don't particularly like what console-setup does to the console anyway :-P05:38
mdzmaybe console-setup ought to get run before usplash starts, then the console would be usable in initramfs05:39
Keybukor we could fix the kernel bugs that mean console-setup doesn't work when usplash is running :)05:39
infinityWell, /bin/setupcon is certainly tiny enough to throw in the initramfs, not sure how large the supporting data (fonts and keymaps and crap) is.05:40
=== fabbione takes away the pipe from Keybuk ....
fdsdKeybuk, do you know why the console font looks so strange in knot3?05:40
fdsdwhen it first boots05:40
infinityfdsd: dpkg-reconfigure console-setup and pick "VGA", if you like the old-skool font.05:40
fdsdinfinity, cool05:40
Keybukinfinity: X11 05:41
infinityAww. :)05:41
fabbioneKeybuk: why not? i did it.. it's relatively small05:41
fabbioneKeybuk: and it boots REALLY fast05:42
Keybukfabbione: you'll bitch when you discover silo can't load the initramfs because it's too large05:42
Keybukand none of your sparcs boot anymore05:42
fabbioneKeybuk: oh we fixed that alraedy :)05:42
fabbionewe can load arbitrary initramfs size now05:42
infinity(When it boots at all...)05:42
HrdwrBoBjust load the whole system into the initramfs05:43
fabbioneinfinity: that too... 05:43
infinityWith the right compiler and the right silo source snapshot, compiled on the third tuesday of the month, and booting on a blue moon, it all goes well.05:43
fabbioneinfinity: ehhehehe05:43
infinityI'd be laughing too, if it weren't true.05:44
fabbioneit's not THAT true anymore05:44
infinityAt my last job, I had 3 different silo builds, with different compilers and different patches to silo, just to boot the variety of sparcs in the place.05:44
fabbionenow i can reproduce silo not booting with both gcc 4.0 and 4.1 without mangling the code :)05:45
infinityWell, I guess that's an improvement?05:45
fabbioneoh yeah05:45
fabbioneit's more consistent05:45
infinityOkay, now I'm laughing. :)05:45
fabbione(in not booting)05:45
=== infinity needed that.
fabbioneinfinity: see /msg05:46
Keybukmdz: btw, we're SO NOT fading out the mixer sound in ALSA :p05:46
Keybukbecause that's a VERY HARD PROBLEM05:46
fdsddoes any one know if knot3 has the issue with kernel panicing randomly on macbooks at startup?05:46
Keybuk-> "amixer controls" ... pick one05:46
infinityWhy fade the mixer when we can just fade the shutdown sound instead?05:47
fabbioneKeybuk: i think you can rely on the "Master" control being always there, but you also need to make sure you can restore the setting at the next reboot or people will be pissed to death05:47
Keybukfor time in 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9; do05:49
Keybuk  amixer sset Master 10-05:49
=== infinity watches a livefs build complete without mangling his console in the process and decides to call that "progress".
Keybuk  sleep 0.105:49
Keybuk? :p05:49
StevenKKeybuk: $(seq 0 9)05:49
fabbioneKeybuk: basically.. but you need to get the output first of the previous value05:49
Keybukfabbione: why?05:49
fabbioneto restore it05:49
fabbionealsa setting are saved almost realtime05:50
fabbioneso you want:05:50
fabbioneorig=$read Master05:50
fabbionefadegap=$orig / 1005:50
Keybukthey're saved on shutdown05:50
fabbioneyeah and you are shutting down05:50
HrdwrBoBand hope you don't get raced to being killed05:50
HrdwrBoBin which case it won't save right05:50
fabbionefor time in 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9; do05:50
Keybukfabbione: so do that after you've saved the volume?05:51
fabbione amixer sset Master $fadegap -05:51
fabbionesleep 0.105:51
fabbioneKeybuk: if that gives enough time to fade.. yeah05:51
fabbioneyou still want a fadegap proportional to the original volume05:51
fabbioneotherwise the sound might fade too fast05:52
fdsdKeybuk, this is the file that results in the error, does it look correct to you? http://keanmarine.com/tty105:52
Keybukisn't that exactly what I just typed?05:52
Keybukfdsd: yes.  what happens if you run "/bin/login -f dcstimm" as root?05:52
fdsdKeybuk, let me check05:52
fabbioneKeybuk: amixer sset Master 10- <- takes 10 away?05:52
Keybukfabbione: yes05:52
fabbioneKaiL: that assume you are at 100% of the volume05:53
fabbioneKeybuk: ^^05:53
fabbione10 iterations from 100 to 005:53
mdzfabbione: it would just fade instead of muting where it currently does05:53
mdzwhich is after saving05:53
Keybukfabbione: it doesn't matter05:53
fdsdKeybuk, no problems when I run that from root05:53
fabbioneKeybuk: with fadegap if the volume is 80 you get steps of 8 down05:53
Keybukfabbione: that would involve figuring out the volume first05:53
fdsdKeybuk, logs directly into the user05:54
fabbioneKeybuk: yeah.. exactly as i wrote :P05:54
Keybukfabbione: where did you get $read from though? :p05:54
fabbione<fabbione> orig=$read Master <-05:54
Keybukyou missed the ALL IMPORTANT STEP05:54
fabbionepseudo codfe05:54
Keybukit appears that Master is a non-trivial value05:54
Keybukbecause it can have as many different current values as you have speakers05:54
jdubuntz untz untz05:55
Keybukoh, hmm, maybe it's only Mono?05:55
fabbionei think Master is "mono" 05:56
fabbionenumid=2,iface=MIXER,name='Master Playback Volume'05:56
Keybuk$orig / 10 won't mute it05:56
Keybukif $orig is 79, $fadegap will be 705:56
fabbioneKeybuk: you can calculate it properly.. that was just the idea05:57
fabbioneamixer cget numid=205:58
fabbionenumid=2,iface=MIXER,name='Master Playback Volume'05:58
fabbione  ; type=INTEGER,access=rw---,values=2,min=0,max=31,step=005:58
fabbione  : values=29,2905:58
fdsdKeybuk, any other ideas?05:58
fdsdKeybuk, sorry to keep bugging you05:58
Keybukfdsd: what does "status tty1" say?05:58
fdsdlet me check05:58
Keybukobvious duh05:59
fdsdKeybuk, tty1 (stop) waiting05:59
Keybukadd " </dev/tty1 >/dev/tty1 2>&1" (without the quotes) on the end of the respawn line06:00
fdsdlet me try it06:01
Keybukjust "start tty1"06:01
fdsdKeybuk, that works06:02
fdsdKeybuk, thanks so much06:03
Keybukmdz: giving up on the fade out idea06:04
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Keybukit sounds exactly the same unless you fade really slowly06:04
Keybukthe shortest "ok-sounding" fade was 2s06:04
mdzKeybuk: what do you think is the best solution?06:04
mdzperhaps having a very short shutdown sound is best06:04
Keybukyeah, I'm inclined to say that the shutdown sound is just too long06:05
mdzsomething <= sum(sleeps during shutdown process)06:05
mdzso that we have some lower limit where we can be sure it isn't truncated06:05
Keybukif you want to do something really sick :p06:05
AlinuxOSKeybuk, yes I agree that shutdonw sound is little bit long.06:05
Keybukmake the sound player ignore SIGTERM06:05
Keybukyou can then have the 5s between SIGTERM and SIGKILL <g>06:05
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mdzthe XP one is pretty short06:09
Keybukheh, figured out the occasional double-flicker in splash down now too06:15
KeybukTIMEOUT 0 doesn't do what somebody thought it did :p06:15
Keybukor maybe, looking at blame, timeout 0 no longer does what it used to do06:18
Keybukthe changelog for that change gives "Sending TERM signal seems to take forever" as the rationale06:19
KeybukI think that predates us realising that the reason it took forever was that usplash just got killed06:19
infinityKeybuk: No, that wasa different "sending TERM signal"06:21
infinityKeybuk: There were two in the old shutdown world order.06:21
infinityKeybuk: One right after GDM starts the shutdown (that was what "took forever"), and then the "sending TERM to all processes" later, which killed usplash.06:21
infinityKeybuk: I suspect that in the new world order, the first one no longer exists, so the hack is pointless.06:22
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Keybukwhat was the first one?06:22
infinityHeck if I can recall.  Go reboot a breezy machine. :)06:23
infinityOr, dapper rather.06:23
Keybukdapper doesn't have it06:24
Keybukunless it's from !init06:24
infinityCould have been.06:24
infinityAnyhow, I'm off.06:25
Keybukinterestingly, our principal "dead periods" in boot now are udev and setupcon06:27
Keybukthe setupcon is quite obvious; it wastes almost 5s06:27
Keybukudev in total wastes about another 10s06:28
Keybukget rid of those "sleeps" and we get a 30s boot06:28
desrtas in, almost entirely idle time?06:28
desrtwhat is it doing?06:28
desrtudev, setupcon06:28
Keybuksetupcon is setting up the console fonts and stuff, but it has to be blocked and do it in the foreground, going around changing vts -- instead of just adjusting kernel crap06:29
Keybukbecause the kernel sucks06:29
Keybukudev is just sleeping because ... well ... it needs a nap06:29
desrtso uhm06:29
desrtnobody uses the console06:29
Keybuk(actually it's because we have things following it that assume that devices are now ready to be mounted, etc.)06:29
desrtsetting console font seems a bit odd06:30
desrtplus, it screws up the splash screen06:30
desrtthe splash has to be down while you do that06:30
Keybukit shouldn't have to be down at all06:30
desrtthe console setup is at 90 now06:30
desrtit used to be at 40something06:31
desrtwhen it was at 40something, when it ran, it would muck up the top few (30 or so) lines of pixels on the splashscreen06:31
Keybukit mucks up the entire thing now06:33
desrtlovely :)06:33
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Keybukmdz: ok, splash down is mostly pleasant now06:40
Keybuksvgalib seems to go out of its way to reset a VT to text mode if it's already in graphics mode when it starts06:40
Keybukso there's an annoyingly black screen and flicker, where before it just drew over the top06:40
Keybukbut I don't think that's avoidable06:41
desrthack svgalib06:41
desrt...and X...06:41
Keybukdesrt: I can assure you, that's rather far down the list of the things I want to do with my life ... just under placing my testicles in a blender to see what it feels like06:42
desrti'd hack svgalib somewhat before trying the blender thing06:42
mdzKeybuk: sounds reasonable, I'll have a look once it lands06:42
=== desrt notes that svgalib uses 1024x768 for him but X uses 1280x800 (not supported by svgalib)
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Keybukabout the only annoying thing now is that if you do "/etc/init.d/gdm stop" on a console, it switches to vt8 for you06:43
Keybukwhich has nothing on it06:43
desrtthat's a really quick X hack to fix06:44
Keybukdesrt: what vt would you have it switch to instead?06:45
desrtKeybuk; none06:45
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desrtwhen X terminates it switches to the VT that was running when it started06:46
desrtit does this even if its not active at the time06:46
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desrtjust conditionalise the VT switch to only happen if the X server was active06:46
Keybukyes, that should definitely be fixed06:47
Keybukit should only switch VTs if it's on its own06:47
desrti'll take care of it06:47
Keybuknow I know why usplash crashes X06:53
Keybukit's the same bug I had with upstart crashing X :)06:54
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Keybukit does open("/dev/console", O_RDWR) after calling setsid()06:54
Keybukwhich means /dev/console becomes the controlling terminal06:54
Keybukand for some reason, X takes an exception to that and crashes06:54
Keybuk(how X even knows, I have no idea)06:55
fabbioneKeybuk: i think it's not impossible to check X code in that respect...06:58
Keybukfabbione: I wouldn't even know what to look for06:59
Keybukas far as I know, as many processes as they like can have the same controlling terminal06:59
fabbionegrep open * -r | grep console? :P06:59
Keybukand they aren't notified if another process also takes it06:59
fabbioneanyway.. gotta get ready for hw maintainance07:00
fabbioneand a few security reboots/updates07:00
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desrtKeybuk; can you upload X?07:19
Keybukdesrt: define "can" ?07:19
desrtwould anyone be angry at you?07:19
desrti have a fix for the VT-switching problem07:20
KeybukI doubt they would be angry07:20
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desrtjust making sure it builds :)07:26
keescookin launchpad, when linking to an upstream bugtracker, there is an "Inkscape bug tracker".  Shouldn't this really be "SourceForge bug tracker"?07:27
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Burgundaviakeescook: file a bug against malone07:29
desrtman.  autotoolsed X07:29
Keybukoh, now that's interesting07:30
desrtmy amusement is deep.07:30
Burgundaviadesrt: you did?07:30
desrtBurgundavia; no.  "they" did.07:30
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Keybukdaniels did, specifically07:30
Keybukstub: hey, how goes the revolution?07:30
desrtit was one of the things that happened xfree86 -> xorg07:30
desrtthe more you learn about X the harder it is to hate it07:30
stubKeybuk: business as usual today - people took all their photos posing infront of the soliders and tanks yesterday. no curfew. everything back open except the laos and burma borders I think.07:31
desrtoh.  .th.  cool :)07:32
stubThey still knock BBC and CNN off air whenever they put on a story about the coup though07:32
desrtnews here has been largely ... neutral07:32
desrtthey're like "it happened.  wednesday is a holiday.  next story."07:32
Burgundaviadesrt: I wonder if apple would have decided differently about X had they had to make the decision they did now07:32
FujitsuIt's just been briefly mentioned in news here.07:33
desrtBurgundavia; i think they'd do the same thing07:33
FujitsuBurgundavia, ?07:33
desrtstub; any news on when martial law is lifted?07:33
Burgundaviadesrt: likely07:33
desrtBurgundavia; if macos looks too much like linux then people can run linux instead07:34
Burgundaviadesrt: no, talking about archecture, not looks07:34
stubdesrt: Probably two weeks when the interim government is appointed07:34
desrtstub; why did it happen?  news here has been short on details07:35
stubdesrt: The incumbent government is hated by the population of Bangkok, but has won the last few elections by 'landslide' having bought votes in the rural areas (literally). The last election was boycotted, leaving the country with no real government, although a good outcome was the corrupt electoral commission was sacked or jailed. 07:37
desrtso a pretty legit/well-needed coup, then07:37
desrtcongrats :)07:37
stubdesrt: It appeared though that when the next election was finally called, not enough would have changed so the existing government would probably stay in office. This would have solved no problems, so the army stepped in (with strong rumor having support from the King, who is the real power)07:38
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stubEsp. as the existing government was looking at replacing the military leaders in charge of Bangkok with cronies, so any protests during the next election would have been crushed.07:38
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Keybukfabbione: actually, this X crash is entirely reasonable07:43
Keybukusplash is stealing tty7 from X07:44
Keybukafter which point, X would no longer receive signals about it, and is no longer the controlling process on that terminal, etc.07:44
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desrtkeybuk; http://desrt.mcmaster.ca/random/xorg-server_1.1.1-0ubuntu11.debdiff07:46
desrtKeybuk; upload, k plz thx :)07:46
desrtwell... you probably want to test it first07:47
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Keybukdid you test what happens if you shutdown X while X is active?07:48
desrtthen it works07:48
desrtthat's the testing that led me to conclude that checking vtSema _doesn't_ work07:49
Burgundaviamjg59: are you up yet?07:49
desrtwhen X comes down it briefly returns to text mode on the console it runs on before switching back to the other console07:49
desrtmy code runs at that point07:50
fdsdYou blokes may know this, I just want a very bare min install of ubuntu, I want it to boot with usplash right to the console (I am making a very basic livecd)  It doesnt need anything except fdisk, bash, mount.. etc.. is there a easy way to remove all those unneeded packages?07:51
Keybukfdsd: it'd be easier to just install it fresh with only the minimal set07:52
fdsdKeybuk, okay, how do I go about doing that? is it an install option?07:52
Keybukfdsd: it's an option on the alternate install CD07:52
fdsdKeybuk, oh I see07:52
Keybukthough if you're making a Live CD, you'd probably stage the install on your filesystem anyway07:52
Keybukso can just use debootstrap07:52
Keybukmkdir /tmp/fs-image; debootstrap edgy /tmp/fs-image07:53
fdsdKeybuk, is there a way to get a list of packages that are in the minimal set?07:53
Keybukgives you a minimal edgy install (literally only the essential pieces and no config) under /tmp/fs-image07:53
fdsdKeybuk, oh interesting07:53
fdsdKeybuk, the amount of time iv put into this you could have done in two seconds07:54
Mithrandirfdsd: you're aware that we provide a base image you can just use?07:54
fdsdMithrandir, does is have usplash?07:55
Mithrandirfdsd: nope07:55
fdsdKeybuk, is there a list for powerpc edgy?07:55
Keybukof course, you can just "apt-get install usplash" into the base image ;)07:55
Keybukfdsd: it's the same07:56
fdsdKeybuk, true07:56
fdsdMithrandir, where is that image I can try?07:56
Mithrandirfdsd: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/livecd-base/current/07:56
Mithrandirnote that they require you to supply an initramfs yourself; they're just the base squashfs images07:57
fdsdMithrandir, thats no problem07:57
fdsdMithrandir, what kernel and such do they have? is it the latest?07:57
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Mithrandirfdsd: look at the manifest; they're built daily so they should have the latest, yes.07:59
fdsdMithrandir, thanks a bunch07:59
fdsdMithrandir, if I drop this into the knot 3 livecd and remake the iso will it boot okay?08:00
Burgundaviagnomefreak: ping08:00
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pittiGood morning08:01
FujitsuMorning, pitti.08:02
pittihi Fujitsu 08:02
ajmitchhi pitti 08:02
Mithrandirfdsd: yes, it should08:03
fdsdMithrandir, awesome, saved me alot of time08:04
Burgundaviasladen: ping08:05
Mithrandirfdsd: note that if you just use the initramfs from knot3 the initramfs will have usplash, you might want to not have "splash" on the kernel command line08:05
Mithrandir(if you don't want usplash)08:05
fdsdMithrandir, I do want usplash08:05
fdsdMithrandir, I made a dialog based shell script that launches at boot, so basicly it boots, shows usplash logo, then goes straight to the dialog shell script08:06
keescookpitti: is your net connection okay again?  :)  that bug I was talking about is 629308:08
pittikeescook: no, network still out, I'm currently dealing with it08:09
pittikeescook: it is very important that our POT files are built in debian/rules08:09
pittikeescook: Rosetta relies on them always being up to date08:09
pittikeescook: so e. g. if we apply a patch that changes a string, this must be immediately reflected in the pot08:10
keescookMakes sense.  What would be the "correct" fix for 6293, then, from ubuntu's perspective?  Regen from the makefile?08:10
keescookpitti: I'm out for the evening.  good luck with the connectivity issues!08:12
pittikeescook: wrt the bug08:12
pittikeescook: it is very confusing08:13
pittikeescook: now, does it contain two POT files or none at all?08:13
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desrtwow.  builds are getting backed up08:22
desrtsome idiot kicked off oo.o builds :p08:22
FujitsuOh dear.08:23
Keybukyeah, doko DoS'd the buildds08:23
ajmitchI think there need to be buildds set aside just for him08:24
desrtthe build queue just needs to implement a LCFS policy08:24
FujitsuOOo is very effective at DoSing.08:24
desrtit's more fair when the workload consists of many small jobs and a few large jobs08:25
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zakamekeescook: ping, good to see you here :)08:32
=== Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-devel.log
=== ubuntulog [i=ubuntulo@ubuntu/bot/ubuntulog] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Topic for #ubuntu-devel: Ubuntu Development (not support, even with edgy) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs | 6.06.1 released | Knot 3 released
=== Topic (#ubuntu-devel): set by Mithrandir at Fri Sep 15 17:05:57 2006
(desrt/#ubuntu-devel) better in edgy?08:59
(pitti/#ubuntu-devel) desrt: it also still has many holes left, too08:59
=== pitti doesn't know the edgy situation
(desrt/#ubuntu-devel) well08:59
(desrt/#ubuntu-devel) edgy has canaries anyway08:59
pittithey don't help you on the heap08:59
desrtneither does libc address randomisation08:59
desrtunless you can manage to overflow the heap in such a way that you can redirect a callback pointer09:00
desrtand also in such a way as to ensure that that callback pointer gets called with the values you like09:00
desrti bet vcalls in c++ make that really easy09:02
desrtif you can overwrite an object instance then you can change its class pointer to point to some evil vtable that contains system() as one of the methods09:02
desrtthen when that method gets called you automatically have the object (which you just overwrote) passed as the implicit instance pointer09:03
desrtbut system() doesn't expect an object instance... so it just treats the pointer as the first argument09:03
desrtyou have 4 bytes of junk at the start of the object instance for your class pointer... just put a ";" after it and then fill in the command you want executed09:03
desrtanother ; and fill in your vtable09:04
desrtof course, you could do the same thing with gobjects, too09:04
desrtyou'd need deterministic heap addresses, though09:04
desrtso i guess address randomisation still has a place09:04
pittidesrt: I'm not that much of an expert in that, but I read that once you plug a few more holes, it's pretty good09:05
desrtpitti; well... you could always just ask the programmers very nicely to write code without bugs :)09:05
pittiprogrammers: pretty please write good code09:06
Keybukdesrt: works fine for me in all situations, and solves the bug09:06
desrtKeybuk; awesome.09:06
pitti'k, topic solved then? :)09:06
pittihey Keybuk 09:06
desrtmy plan for the course is i'm gonna run some process on a server09:06
Keybukpitti: heh, referring to desrt's fix to stop X flipping to some random VT when you kill it09:07
desrtthat'll be like main() { buffer[20] ; gets(buffer); return 0; }09:07
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desrti give them the source to the server and the compiled binary09:07
desrtand their assignment is to create a file on the server that contains their name and student number :p09:07
pittinice ;)09:07
=== pitti wishes he had done such h4x0r courses in uni
desrtit's an assembly course09:08
desrtwe cover topics09:08
desrt - assembly basics09:08
desrt - calling to/from C.  stack layout09:08
desrt - debugging09:08
desrt - hax0ring09:08
desrtor so is the plan :)09:08
desrt(new course next term)09:09
desrtin any case i'm off to bed.  ciao :)09:09
pittidesrt: sleep well09:11
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dholbachgood morning09:14
=== Keybuk hugs dholbach
KeybukHappy Beta Freeze Day!09:17
Hobbseeargh, surely not09:17
=== dholbach hugs Keybuk back
Hobbseei *knew* there was something else i was going to fix in main today09:17
Hobbseehey Seveas 09:17
Seveashey Hobbsee 09:18
Hobbseetwo things, in fact.09:18
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=== Seveas is proud of himself, I chaired the ubuntu BOF at eurooscon today and people actually liked it
SeveasPeople were disappointed though that Mark didn't show up ;)09:19
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Keybukdid he know that he was supposed to show up?09:19
SeveasI'd assume so, if I understood it correctly there was some miscommunication about canceling09:20
Seveasafter Jeff canceled 09:20
KagouKamion: just for informations, today desktop daily iso is like yesterday, not very uptodate.09:25
KeybukKagou: compared to?09:25
HobbseeSeveas: you could have tried pretending to be mark :P09:25
KagouKeybuk: desktop daily iso do not contain old packages (3/4 days old) 09:26
KagouKeybuk: specially i'm looking at fontconfig09:27
SeveasHobbsee, that wouldn't have worked ;)09:28
TreenaksSeveas: it's the accent, isn't it? :P09:28
HobbseeSeveas: i know, but it could have been awful fun to try09:28
Hobbseeheh.  my machine is hitting 83C again09:28
KeybukKagou: hmm, are you just checking the manifest file, or the actual iso?09:29
KagouKeybuk: actual iso (burnt and booted on)09:29
Keybukah, openoffice is uninstallable09:29
KamionKeybuk: reading scrollback - setupcon does not actually change VTs any more, you know09:30
KeybukKamion: no, but it appears to take a long time ;-/09:30
KamionKeybuk: anyway, I just made setupcon not do font setup if usplash is running, which should fix the video corruption09:31
Keybukyeah I saw09:31
Keybukit would still be "nice" if setupcon could just work even if usplash or X were running09:32
Keybukbut there be kernel bugs, arr09:32
KamionKagou: it's ok, you don't need to tell us about this09:34
KamionKagou: the livefs failed to build - http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/livefs-build-logs/edgy/ubuntu/latest/livecd-20060921-i386.out09:34
KamionKeybuk: any idea which bit of setupcon is taking ages? it's presumably some child process09:35
Kamionoh right09:36
Kamionit'll be ckbcomp then09:36
KeybukI wonder whether it's taking longer for me because I'm still running it under strace :p09:36
Kamionwell, it's doing a chunk of work09:36
Kamionthere's an argument that if you didn't say --save and there's a boottime keymap saved, it should just use that09:36
Keybukthe fact it gets run twice is probably not helping either09:37
Kamionor maybe if the boottime keymap's timestamp is at least as new as /etc/default/console-setup09:37
Kamionthat would probably be a good enough check09:37
Kamionthe first run won't work if you have a separate /usr ;)09:37
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Keybukwe should so just outlaw that ;)09:39
cbx33is there any possibliilty that ubiquity can have a slight change made to it ?09:39
Kamioncbx33: depends on the change :)09:39
cbx33scanning for a mirror09:39
cbx33I'm behind a proxy...09:40
cbx33installing fro ma live cd09:40
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Kamionknown bug that I need to investigate09:40
Kamionbut it's probably not "a slight change"09:40
cbx33will it eventually get there?09:40
cbx33sorry Kamion just asking09:40
cbx33oh yep...it's moved onto the security mirror now09:40
Kamionshould do, you can find the http child processes and strace them to see if it's doing anything09:40
cbx33well i know what it's doing.....sitting waiting for a responce09:41
cbx33which it's not going oto get09:41
cbx33also do we know of issues with NVIDIA 7300 series on PCI-E09:41
cbx33my brand new PC for ubuntu development is sick...09:41
cbx33it thinks it's an ATI card :S09:41
cbx33that sux...09:43
cbx33I hate ATI09:43
Keybukpaste the relevant line from lspci -n09:43
cbx33I will when I get home09:43
cbx33it was a fresh install of dapper09:43
FujitsuSilly silly NVIDIA.09:43
Keybuknvidia should be 10de:????09:43
Mithrandirhmm, shouldn't gnome-games really just be a recommends of ubuntu-desktop?09:43
=== cbx33 is the proud owner of a nice 4200 X2 :)
BurgundaviaMithrandir: probably09:44
cbx33just got it yesterday09:44
FujitsuNo no, it's a critical part. You can't have a desktop without games! It must /never/ be allowed to be removed by users.09:44
KamionMithrandir: that seems like a fair argument09:44
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HiddenWolfMithrandir: yeah, it should09:45
KamionI can't decide whether I like the way that https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-6.10-beta lists fix-released bugs09:45
KamionI guess it gives an impression of progress09:45
KeybukKamion: makes it more like an mdz poster/blame board09:46
Kamionright :)09:46
cbx33is mdz around09:46
KamionI doubt it09:46
Keybukcbx33: almost certainly in bed09:46
Keybukor a pumpkin09:46
cbx33maybe someone else can help ;)09:46
cbx33I have to make a change to my student-control-panel pacakge09:47
cbx33but beta freeze has p[assed hasn't it09:47
Kamionwhat's the change?09:47
cbx33I only found out about the change yesterday09:47
cbx33but my pc had blown up, so I'd ordered my new bits09:47
cbx33but didn't get it together intime09:47
cbx33I need to make it only run if an environment variable is set09:48
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cbx33well, if the LTSP_CLIENT enviroment variable is set, it should run, if not it shouldn't09:48
Kamionthat sounds pretty safe; what's the reasoning?09:49
Kamion(I don't know LTSP)09:49
cbx33people running as a user on the LTSP server, shouldn;lt show up in the LTSP users list ;)09:49
Hobbseedoko: you around?09:49
Kamionthat's fair enough - I suppose you should make sure that it exits 0 if LTSP_CLIENT isn't set09:50
FujitsuCan I presume that SCP will be modifiable for use on non-Edubuntu LTSP servers?09:50
cbx33Kamion: that was the plan09:50
cbx33Fujitsu: yes09:50
lastnodeimbrandon, you around mate?09:50
FujitsuGreat, cbx33 :)09:50
Kamioncbx33: go ahead then09:50
cbx33Kamion: ok, I'll try and get that done today09:51
Kamioncbx33: if you get it done before the development team meeting, probably nobody will notice anyway :)09:51
cbx33Kamion: there is also a change to the usplash artwork I need to make09:51
cbx33Kamion: how long is that away?09:51
Kamionseven hours09:51
cbx33Kamion: hopefully should be doable09:52
Kamionwhat's the usplash artwork change?09:52
cbx33I'm at work now, but I'm hoping to sneak some ubuntu time in09:52
cbx33the images are resulting in a 2Mb .so file ;)09:52
cbx33which is a little large09:52
=== cbx33 is trying to either desat and/or pngcrush them
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Kamionsame for Ubuntu apparently09:52
cbx33must be the new 256 colours09:53
Hobbseelastnode: he went to get some sleep09:53
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cbx33ogra is concerned that 2Mb over the LTSP will slow down09:53
KamionI don't think that's beta-critical, but if you can get it reduced without losing quality, I'm all for it09:53
Kamionfair enough09:53
cbx33Kamion: does that mean I could do it after09:53
cbx33cos that one will take some testing and time09:53
Kamionyes, we'll open up slightly again (back to FF levels) after the beta release09:54
lastnodealright Hobbsee, i was just trying to see if i could catch him to talk about upstream, and to get some advice on where to head now. (we have a working POST backend and a semi-working GUI, as well as three devs). even if you're free sometime, id love to have a design related chat. 09:54
cbx33Kamion: right ok, that gives me a little time on that one....as I said I only found out yesterday, 09:54
Hobbseelastnode: right....i know nothing at all about this :P09:55
lastnodeHobbsee, it's a python script. anyway, ill wait for him to wake up. much thanks.09:55
cbx33Thanks for the info Kamion 09:55
Burgundavialastnode: what sort of project are you working on?09:57
lastnodeBurgundavia, http://sourceforge.net/projects/upstream <-- a log transfer system.09:58
Burgundavialastnode: ah, interesting09:59
Kamionwow, most confusing project name ever :)09:59
Kamion"who's the upstream for upstream again?"09:59
lastnodeKamion, i thought about that, i did ;-)09:59
KeybukKamion: the author is a Mr Upstream10:00
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lastnodeit just was too good to pass up - logs, etc, and keeping with the usual corniness of naming *nix projects, i thought id give it a go10:00
HobbseeKamion: hehe, that's what i thought10:00
FujitsuHobbsee, same here.10:01
=== Hobbsee thumps imbrandon's machine
Hobbseestop saying that i'm working with an unsigned key!10:01
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FujitsuKeybuk, what's wrong with convertall's debian/copyright?10:02
=== Fujitsu checks it....
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=== lastnode curses shift+backspace
FujitsuSomething went /really/ wrong there.10:03
Hobbseewhat, it doesnt exist?10:03
FujitsuNo, it's all screwed...10:04
FujitsuHey, I haven't even got the latest version here...10:04
FujitsuI forget where I last did it, it was two weeks ago...10:04
=== Fujitsu grabs it from REVU instead.
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FujitsuOh, woops. I do have the latest version here. It was lucidlife's debian/copyright I was thinking of that had those changes...10:06
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Burgundavialastnode: last years SoC had an innovative bug/defect system you should look at10:07
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lastnodeBurgundavia, got a link? although i must add that this is mainly concerned with sending logs for troubleshooting (although it could tie in with a bug system)10:08
Burgundavianot off hand10:09
lastnodeok, thanks anyway Burgundavia. :-) it was originally written in bash (I know, I know) but then imbrandom convinced me to rewrite it in python.10:09
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doko_pitti: did you look at Till's packages? else I would do it now10:16
pittidoko_: not yet, sorry; please go ahead if you have time10:16
doko_time ... no, but I go ahead =)10:17
=== pitti hugs doko_
dholbachheya doko_10:17
mvohey doko_!10:17
=== dholbach hugs doko_
=== mvo hugs doko_
doko_hi gnome slackers ;)10:18
=== dholbach slaps doko_ :)
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Mithrandirdoko_: are you responding to mdz's mail about the daily health checks?10:30
doko_Mithrandir: after OOo hits the archive10:30
Mithrandirdoko_: as in, it's fixed when the new ooo hits or you'll respond after it hits?10:31
doko_Mithrandir: most of it will be fixed, I'll look at it again, after the health check is updated.10:32
Mithrandirdoko_: 'k10:32
doko_oh, the first build did finish10:33
doko_Kamion: please approve the new openoffice.org binaries in NEW10:33
Kamionthey aren't there (yet, or Keybuk's already approved them)10:33
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doko_ahh, no new packages for amd64 and powerpc, and the i386 build just finished10:37
Kamioncrimsun: could you pass on that somebody needs to rebuild xubuntu-system-tools for the new liboobs? before beta if possible10:38
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crimsunKamion: yessir10:39
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doko_Kamion: hmm, trying to find the queue view again ... have to save the link10:39
crimsunKamion: just a simple rebuild?10:39
Kamiondunno, may need to be a merge from gnome-system-tools10:40
crimsunok, thanks10:41
KamionI just noticed it as a blocked not-built-from-source removal10:41
doko_nevermind, found it10:41
Kamiondoko_: /distros/ubuntu/edgy/+queue10:41
seb128doko_: read the /query from yesterday? do you still have your libgnome-java changes locally?10:42
doko_seb128: have to read it ...10:42
Mithrandirdholbach: libgnomeuimm-2.6-1c2a seems to be uninstallable due to libcairomm-1.0-0 soname bump.  Are you on it?10:42
dholbachMithrandir: yeah, can do - thanks10:43
Nafallomorning * :-)10:43
dholbachMithrandir: I'll rebuild the others too10:44
Mithrandirdholbach: yay, thanks.10:45
=== Mithrandir hugs dholbach
=== dholbach hugs Mithrandir back :)
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Kamiondamn, I've just noticed why auto-resize isn't working very well in edgy's ubiquity10:48
Kamionno 64-bit maths in the shell ...10:49
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Mithrandirwe should just stop supporting 32 bit arches. :-P10:49
=== Mithrandir hides
NafalloMithrandir: or implement your multi-arch ;-)10:50
MithrandirNafallo: that doesn't help in this case10:50
Kamion        long result;10:50
Kamion        return (result);10:50
=== Nafallo just noticed we have alsa in -minimal.
Kamionnot that it matters much10:50
Nafallowhy do we have sound on a server? :-)10:50
KamionNafallo: originally, that was so that we had the hotplug blacklist files consistently installed10:51
Kamionthey're in linux-sound-base now, so it's possible that that can be tweaked, but it would require careful thought10:51
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Nafalloand now? can we move it to somewhere not servisch? :-)10:51
Kamionread what I just wrote10:52
Kamion"it's possible that that can be tweaked, but it would require careful thought"10:52
Kamioni.e. I don't have time to check now :)10:52
NafalloRecommends might help? :-)10:52
Kamionhelps absolutely not at all10:52
Nafallothat would make me have my server installed with ubuntu-minimal ;-)10:52
Kamionit would be wrong10:53
Kamioneither it should be in minimal, or it shouldn't10:53
Kamionthere should be no halfway houses for minimal10:53
Kamionnote that debootstrap's automatic dependency resolution does not follow Recommends10:53
Nafalloah, makes sence then.10:54
Nafallohmm, we have ppp* and reiserfsprogs in -standard?10:54
NafalloKamion: maybe I should go write a spec for edgy+1? :-)10:55
Nafalloif that would be helpful etcetera.10:56
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KamionNafallo: I don't think it would be helpful10:58
Kamiona spec would be overkill here10:58
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Kamionwe don't need a spec for every little seed tweak10:58
Kamionreiserfsprogs is there because by policy we have a reasonable set of filesystem support as standard10:58
Kamion(that could arguably be recommends, though)10:59
Nafalloi.e. ext3+reiser :-)10:59
Kamionplease take the filesystem advocacy elsewhere; thank you :)10:59
Nafallohehe, we already advocate ext3 quite hard, that should be enough. so I argue the same for -standard ;-)11:00
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Nafallohow do you want me to move forward with those seed changes, since I guess it's not really edgy material this late in the cycle? :-)11:01
Kamionfeel free to file bugs on ubuntu-meta11:01
Trewascould someone take a look at bug 58927 and maybe assign it to someone? it's a configuration issue with dhcp3 which causes problems only with ~broken routers, but these a-link roadrunners (and I doubt they are the only broken ones) are very common here and if the config is not changed for edgy, there will be many with non-working networks11:01
UbugtuMalone bug 58927 in Ubuntu "Network unreachable with Edgy" [Untriaged,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/5892711:01
Kamionanything complicated should be discussed on -devel11:01
Nafallooki, will do then :-). thanks Kamion *hug*.11:01
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Kamionpitti: have you seen the further discussion on Debian #11:07
Kamioner Debian #383314?11:07
UbugtuDebian bug 383314 in libmagick9 "libmagick9: Buffer overflow in SGI parser [CVE-2006-4144] " [Grave,Open]  http://bugs.debian.org/38331411:07
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Kamionpitti: I'm just going to sync in unstable's imagemagick for edgy, unless you have any objections, but you might want to revisit the fixes for dapper etc.11:08
pittiKamion: yeah, I saw it11:09
pittiKamion: it's on my TODO list11:09
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pittiKamion: yeah, syncing for edgy would be appreciated11:09
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Kamionok, doing, thanks11:11
NafalloKamion: there is some reason we have aptitude in -minimal rather than standard I guess? :-)11:13
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seb128iwj: hi. When do you think you will upload a firefox shipping xpidl again? The build of some packages is broken by that at the moment11:16
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jdubSeveas: onya - bof was good?11:21
dholbachpitti: opal seems to suffer from a pkg-create-dbgsym problem as well11:22
dholbachpitti: can you tell me, what you changed yesterday, so I can check it on my own?11:22
pittidholbach: ok, I'll deal with it, but I'd like to finish with this thunderbird/firefox mess11:23
dholbachsure, take your time11:23
pittidholbach: yesterday? I just fixed debian/rules to do what it wanted to11:23
dholbachpitti: ok, I check11:23
pittidholbach: in general, I fix stuff in pkg-create-dbgsym, though11:23
dholbachI believe this might be the same problem11:23
pittisince it shouldn't alter build behaviour normally11:23
pittidholbach: but with yesterday's package it executed dh_strip under compat level 5, but thought it would be < 5 (due to the wrong test)11:24
dholbachthanks - I'll check it out11:24
KamionNafallo: yes; the installer uses it to install the rest of the system.11:26
Kamionincluding, oh just for example, standard11:26
Nafallothought so :-)11:26
FujitsuKamion, thanks for those syncs :)11:27
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dholbachpitti: looks like a similar problem *testbuild*11:30
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Seveasjdub, yeah, bof was good ;011:32
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Seveasjdub, I'm expecting a few mails from people who attended with feedback theywant to be forwarded to people "higher in the chain" than me, so people should expect some spam from me ;)11:35
NafalloKamion: there you go. 7 bugs filed for discussion ;-).11:37
jdubSeveas: rock on - thanks!11:39
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NafalloKamion: in case you're not subscribed to the ML, I also mailed -server about them. Invited for discussion :-).11:47
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cbx33Kamion: I fixed that bug with a 2 liner, so I'll rebuild the package and get ogra to upload in the next 5 hours11:51
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tepsipakkilatest flashplugin-nonfree for dapper-backports has some problems11:57
tepsipakkiit isn't built yet11:57
Fujitsutepsipakki, that was fixed with a new upload earlier today.11:58
tepsipakkifujitsu: oh, there's nothing on dapper-changes11:58
Fujitsutepsipakki, what was the last upload you saw?11:58
tepsipakkiubuntu2~dapper1 is the latest there11:58
FujitsuYes, that's what I meant.11:59
FujitsuAnd you're right, it's not built.11:59
FujitsuThe buildds are rather tied up at the moment, unfortunately.11:59
StevenKln -s buildds dokos-bitches12:00
cbx33guys I have a python script that is run as part of the Xsession.d12:01
tepsipakkiis there redistribution problems with the plugin, or why is a complex wrapper needed?12:02
cbx33when X session finishes, the script should be closed too12:02
cbx33why isn't....there is no signal handling in it yet....is that why?12:02
cbx33but the scipt still runs when the user logs out12:02
cbx33and continues to run12:02
cbx33I don't want this happeneing12:02
Riddellcarlos: did you get the desktop*pot files?  and did the utf8 issues get fixed?12:02
carlosRiddell: I guess, because we got 30000 new files in our import queue, let me check it (oo.org import is delaying those imports)12:03
carlosRiddell: yeah, I see some .po files for desktop templates12:04
carlosabout the UTF-8 issue, I see that konqueror.pot has the UTF-8 tag, so it should be fixed12:05
carlosRiddell: thanks!!12:05
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dholbachmy wifi hates me today12:06
dholbachpitti: I did some changes to the opal package, but it's not quite it yet - if you could have a look later on, that'd be nice -- I have my changes on http://daniel.holba.ch/temp/12:11
pittidholbach: ok, I'll look at it ASAP12:13
dholbachpitti: take your time :)12:13
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StevenKdholbach: Heh, nice domain.12:17
dholbachStevenK: thanks :)12:17
cbx33anyone know how when an X session closes it stops the processes called in the /etc/X11/Xsession.d/ configs?12:17
Riddellcarlos: great12:17
carlosRiddell: I will confirm that anyway as soon as all files are imported (it would take a day or two)12:18
Riddellcarlos, jordi: did you write a response to that KDE wiki page?12:20
carlosRiddell: jordi told me that he will have it ready before tomorrow night12:20
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xadfwhy is there no security update for flashplugin-nonfree for dappefr?12:30
pittixadf: it's not supported, thus it may take a while12:31
pittior not even be done at all12:31
xadfvery clever12:31
jonoanyone else getting an openoffice.org crash whenever it loads a file picker?12:31
Fujitsujono, known bug...12:32
dholbachjono: yes, known issue12:32
jonoahhh cool12:32
FujitsuI forget which one, but it'll be fixed when OOo is rebuilt...12:32
dholbachyou can change the filechooser to be non-gnome12:32
dholbach(as a tempoary workaroung)12:32
FujitsuIn fact, it should be fixed very shortly, as OOo has finished building on a couple of archs.12:32
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Treenakshm, _something_ in my apache2 on dapper is leaking memory at ~30mb/day12:40
Treenakshow do I find out what it is?12:41
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jdubTreenaks: it's php12:41
Treenaksjdub: PHP is not even installed12:41
TreenaksI suspect fcgid though12:41
jdubTreenaks: yep. that's just how scary it is.12:41
Treenaksjdub: ;)12:42
jdubTreenaks: check where your server is hosted - i'm sure there'll be a php installation nearby, sucking its will to live12:43
Treenaksjdub: it's in a shared colo, so it's very likely, yes...12:45
=== Fujitsu moves into Treenaks' server, and begins to eat the RAM.
NafalloTreenaks: seems you have a bad harddrive ;-)12:47
TreenaksI just want apache to show me why its heap is 40MB (and no, valgrinding it is not really an option :))12:47
FujitsuI am a hard drive... a 10.4GB one.12:50
pittidudes, dudettest, and duderinos: May I proudly present http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/ddebs/12:50
FujitsuFinally :D12:50
pittiseb128: debug crack for the world!12:50
FujitsuI presume they actually have the stuff in them?12:51
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pittiFujitsu: but we only started grabbing them yesterday, so it's veeery incomplete12:51
=== pitti hugs infinity for doing the buildd side
Fujitsupitti, at least it's there now :)12:51
FujitsuI just clicked on one in Firefo.12:52
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FujitsuOf course, it decided it wanted to render it as unicode.12:52
FujitsuHi, sabdfl!12:52
seb128pitti: WAOUH12:52
=== seb128 hugs pitti
TreenaksFujitsu: sounds like a mis-configured webserver12:52
pittiFujitsu: don't worry, to make this actually useful I'll update the apport-retrace script to automatically fetch them12:52
FujitsuGood idea, I was wondering how they were usable :)12:53
sabdflhi guys12:53
seb128hey sabdfl12:53
=== pitti crons
seb128pitti: so we can apt-get install package-sbgsym now? :)12:53
pittihi sabdfl 12:53
Nafallomorning sabdfl :-)12:53
cbx33hey sabdfl 12:53
pittiseb128: if you want to, yes12:53
seb128pitti: can I blog about it? ;)12:53
pittiseb128: I didn't test it with apt-get yet, though12:53
dholbachpitti: YOU ROCK12:54
pittiseb128: wait until it's polished a bit :) I'll do an official announcement on u-d-a12:54
=== pitti hugs dholbach
mvohey sabdfl12:54
=== dholbach hugs pitti back
seb128pitti: ok, cool12:54
pittiseb128: I do create indexes, but I'm not sure whether apt-get is happy with '.ddeb'12:54
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pittiseb128: after I finish the last bits on rookery, I'll try that12:55
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pittiBenC: good bye, hello, goodbye, hello :)01:00
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Mithrandiriwj: my firefox has managed to lose all its CA certificates.  Is there an easy way to reload them without trashing all the settings?01:14
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Mithrandiriwj: I _think_ it happened when my ~ filled completely.01:14
mjg59Burgundavia: Hi01:18
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mjg59Keybuk: So what happens now if usplash times out and gdm doesn't get started?01:20
Keybukmjg59: *shrug* what happens if usplash times out and gives you a blank console instead of the one with the waiting fsck?01:21
Keybukthe answer to your question is that after a short period, they will get flipped to vt1 by the usplash init script in the ordinary boot sequence01:22
iwjMithrandir: Sorry, I'm afraid I don't know.01:24
iwjAnd I have to go to the bank now before the queues get insane.  Back after lunch ...01:24
mjg59Keybuk: Right, that was what I wanted to know01:25
mjg59Keybuk: As long as they do end up back on vt101:25
Keybukthere will always be something on the vt8 under usplash, because that's where notification of fsck ends up01:25
Keybukyes, they either end up in gdm, or on vt101:25
KeybukI did check that :p01:25
Keybukif gdm times out, *and* the boot sequence stops, then a shell will be on vt8 for some reason01:26
Keybukeither spawned from an init script, or by upstart01:26
cbx33guys I need some realy help here01:27
Keybukit's ugly, but it's a necessary hack while we need to switch to a text vt before starting gdm01:27
Keybukif we could just start gdm, then usplash could exit because of the vt flip01:27
cbx33does any one know how the Xsession.d configs should be closed01:27
Keybukand it could flip to vt1 if it existed normally01:27
cbx33are they sent a signal....01:27
cbx33ogra asked me to look at my scp-client script as when a user logs out of X, it stays running01:28
cbx33but then so does dbus01:28
cbx33and gnome-vfs01:28
cbx33are they sent a special signal...?01:28
cbx33their ppid is 1, so their parent never dies01:28
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Keybukthey may be sent SIGHUP01:28
cbx33Keybuk: nope already tried that01:29
mvoKamion: I have a small fix in the auto-remove view code in synaptic, ok to upload http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/tmp/synaptic-view-fix.diff?01:29
Keybukah, if their ppid is 1, then no, they'll be sent no signal01:29
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Keybukyou only get SIGHUP if you're in the foreground process group of a controlling terminal01:29
cbx33so how are they asked to die.....or.....more pretenantly...are they actually asked to die?01:29
Keybuk(yes, I've read that chapter of Stevens, and made it through to the end <g>)01:29
KeybukI think they just time out and go away on their own01:29
cbx33well that's the problem....they don;t ;)01:29
Keybukthey usually do for me01:30
_ionkeybuk: Btw, i quite like the fact that sulogin respawns.01:30
cbx33Keybuk: these procs have been stable for the last 30mins01:30
Keybukcbx33: here, gnome-vfs-daemon is in the same session as dbus-daemon (session)01:30
Keybukand dbus-daemon is in its own session01:31
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cbx33hang on01:32
cbx33lemme try a few things01:32
seanhHi - I asked on here a few days ago about a way of automatically 'cleaning up' the home directory of a public user account, i.e. deleting stuff ppl download. PAM was mentioned, and I wondered if someone could expand on how I'd use PAM to achieve this, and why it's better than rsync'ing the homedir?01:33
cbx33i was reading s wrong01:34
cbx33you're right Keybuk, they are children of x-session-manager01:34
cbx33are they going to be sent a SIGHUP?01:34
cbx33because I tried handling that in my python script but it doesn't work01:34
Keybukno, they won't be sent that01:35
cbx33will they be sent anythin?01:35
Keybukso x-session-manager has a child called dbus-launch01:35
Keybukthat will be sent some kind of signal when the session terminates01:35
Keybukand that dbus-launch will send a signal to dbus-daemon to die (maybe just TERM)01:35
Keybukand that will, in turn, send a signal to other processes in its session (maybe HUP)01:37
=== Keybuk guesses
Mithrandiriwj: in case somebody gets the same problem: rm-ing extensions.cache from the profile fixed the problem for me01:38
cbx33Keybuk: you can see it's a child process01:38
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cbx33so what happens when x-session-manager get's killed?01:38
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Keybukyou'll have to look at the code for x-session-manager for that01:40
Keybuknothing automatic01:40
cbx33damn 01:41
pittiseb128: $ sudo apt-get install yelp-dbgsym -> works!!!11!!01:44
mvopitti: cool!01:44
pittijust with 'deb http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/ddebs edgy main'01:45
pittitime for an announcement, I guess01:45
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slomo_pitti: now we only need to rebuild the complete archive? ;)01:49
pittislomo_: sure, trivial, isn't it? :)01:49
slomo_pitti: would also have the advantage of ssp everywhere ;) i guess we still have some packages that didn't had an upload since ages01:50
Mithrandirproblem of rebuilding the archive is more the mirror hit than rebuilding the archive..01:52
Mithrandirit takes a week or so, but that's not really a problem.01:52
seb128pitti: rock on ;)01:53
seb128pitti: I tried before but there was no dists yet :)01:53
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pittiseb128: yeah, I trashed and fixed it several times01:53
iwjMithrandir: Noted, thanks.01:54
pittiMithrandir: I think for edgy we should just rebuild some crucial packages; between beta and final there'll be a fair number of uploads anyawy01:54
iwjGood technique: guess what to rm :-).01:54
seb128pitti: we will have the whole GNOME with GNOME 2.16.1 anyway :p01:54
pittiseb128: nice01:54
seb128pitti: should we drop the -dbg packages then?01:54
pittiseb128: if we have ubuntu specific changes anyway, and it doesn't make merging much harder, sure01:54
pittiseb128: but we shuold just keep them for packages which we can sync01:55
slomo_pitti: can't we just let the buildds drop every package named *-dbg?01:57
pittislomo_: that would be inconsistent with source *.dsc and will probably disrupt other thing, too01:58
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pittican any native English speaker please take a look at the announcement (for u-devel-announce) at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/24232 and suggest some language/grammar/typo/madness corrections?02:16
ograinfinity, around ? 02:17
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FujitsuThat's fine, pitti.02:27
pittiFujitsu: thanks02:28
FujitsuNo problem.02:28
ajmitchpitti: splendid02:28
ajmitchnow I just need to be able to ship mono debugging info automatically :)02:28
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Kamionmvo: yes, that looks OK02:34
Kamion(synaptic auto-remove)02:34
seanhAnyone know what package I need to have to use the notify-send commnand?02:34
pittiseanh: libnotify-bin02:34
slomo_seanh: libnotify-bin02:34
pittislomo_: snap!02:34
_ionseanh: apt-file :-)02:34
mvoKamion: thanks! is the freeze in effect already? or only after the meeting?02:34
pittiseanh: great way to test command-not-found magic :)02:35
slomo_pitti: hm in my xchat my response is above your's ;)02:35
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mvocommand-not-found magic!02:35
pittislomo_: hm, not in mine, darn race conditions :)02:35
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mvoslomo_: my reality supports pittis view02:36
ajmitchslomo_: xchat cheats02:36
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Kamionmvo: undefined :-)02:36
seanhI'm not on edgy, don't think I have the c-n-f magic02:36
mvoKamion: lol! ok :)02:36
slomo_mvo: my reality is more beautiful ;)02:36
Kamionmy opinion is generally that freezes start at the development team meeting, but I don't know if that agrees with Matt's :-)02:36
Keybukthat's certainly true this time02:37
Keybukbecause Matt's in bed02:37
Keybukand we can't be frozen until he's had coffee02:37
ograso its a coffe issue :)02:37
ograsomeone go and steal his coffee :)02:38
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iwjYay!  My fix worked *astonishment*02:45
iwjpitti: I have a working ff1.5+yelp+epiphany for breezy.02:45
iwjI just need to get rid of the debugging printfs (and file a few bugs upstream).02:45
iwjWhat would you like me to do with them ?02:46
iwjThe epiphany just needs a rebuild.  yelp needs a bugfix too.02:46
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iwjA one-line variable initialisation.02:46
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pittiiwj: rock!02:58
Hobbseepitti: paper!02:58
pittiHobbsee: scissors02:58
_ionhammer time02:58
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ajmitchHobbsee: be nice to poor ogra 02:59
Hobbseeajmitch: why?02:59
Hobbseehe's tsk'ing02:59
ajmitchbecause he's busy working hard 03:00
pittiiwj: once firefox itself works fine, you should upload it to jackass; then I'll publish it to jackass' internal archive, so that the reverse dependencies can build against it03:00
ograhey, come on ... i had 5 wonderful hours of sleep after being up 54h in a row :)03:00
pittiiwj: then all depending packages (yelp, epiphany, etc.) can be uploaded (they should preferably have a versioned build-dep against f-dev)03:00
Hobbseeogra: ouch :P03:00
pittiiwj: once everything is ready, I can release all packages in a single shot, so that we don't break upgrades03:01
ograHobbsee, well, sleep is for after freeze ;)03:01
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iwjpitti: OK.  But WDYM `upload to jackass' ?03:03
pittiiwj: aka security.upload.ubuntu.com03:03
pittiiwj: I'm just releasing tbird 1.5 + two handfuls of reverse deps to breezy, I'll see how it goes :)03:04
pittitkamppeter: lol @ 'Debian user's morning gymnastics' :)03:06
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pittitkamppeter: (btw, new hplip is not yet uploaded, doko_ kindly agreed to review/upload it soon)03:07
doko_pitti: soon ...03:07
doko_fighting with OOo and the archive :-/03:08
janimopitti, tkamppeter: hi, is the new foomatic-db still planned?03:08
pittijanimo: yes, it is03:08
tkamppeterjanimo, yes, it only needs to get uploaded. The bug reports I have already switched to "Fix Committed".03:10
iwjpitti: Good luck.03:11
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ograhow do i force usplash to 100% ?03:17
ograwould: usplash_write "PROGRESS 100" work ? 03:18
LeeJunFangcc's stack smashing protection probably isn't a good thing to have on by default. :(03:19
FujitsuWhy not, LeeJunFan?03:20
LeeJunFanyou can't build most kernels with it on.03:21
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zulLeeJunFan: thats why the ubuntu kernels use -fno-stack-protector03:22
LeeJunFanzul: yeah, so I gathered now.03:22
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bddebianHowdy folks03:26
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Yagisancan someone please confirm this bug #6166303:29
UbugtuMalone bug 61663 in linux-source-2.6.17 "Displays "ILLEGAL EXTENDED X86 OPCODE" on VT1 during boot" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/6166303:29
FujitsuYagisan, I'd say it was only AMD64.03:30
YagisanFujitsu, you are probably right, but it concerns me03:31
pittiYagisan: yup, amd64+nvidia03:33
Yagisanpitti, thanks. thats my combination too03:34
pittiYagisan: it's a dup of bug 6013503:34
UbugtuMalone bug 60135 in usplash "does not work at all on amd64 with nvidia card" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/6013503:34
Yagisanah crap. sorry for the dupe03:34
pittino problem03:34
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iwjpitti: breezy-security, then, not breezy-updates, I take it.03:45
pittiiwj: yes, since it fixes two tons of security bugs03:45
pittiand -updates does not allow us staging03:46
iwjAnd -sa (include the .orig.tar.gz) ?03:46
iwjStaging is really necessary here.03:46
pittiiwj: yes, you'll need that03:46
iwjFYI, Mozilla 353641 has my report about the main reason why it hasn't been working.03:47
UbugtuMozilla bug 353641 in String "ToLowerCase assumes iterators comparable but old string ones aren't" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=35364103:47
iwjIt's a sad sad tale.03:47
pittiargh, who broke mplayer? *sigh*03:47
iwjAnd I'm pretty sure the fix isn't right but I think it's safe and will make the symptoms go away.03:47
Nafallopitti: fix uploaded03:47
=== pitti hugs Nafallo
=== Nafallo hugs pitti back :-)
pittiseb128: the last time I claimed that totem-gst would work I must have used totem-xine accidentally; -gst is still unusable for me :(03:48
slomo_pitti: what's broken with totem-gst for you?03:50
pittislomo_: audio lags behind video for one or two seconds03:50
pittiformat-wise it's pretty good03:51
slomo_pitti: which container, audio and video format is this?03:51
pitti(format -> codeds)03:51
ograKamion, i know youre a bit familiar with portmap ... and idea about bug 61668 ?03:51
UbugtuMalone bug 61668 in portmap "Building LTSP chroot stops during portmap installation" [Untriaged,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/6166803:51
ograit seems to run a very long lasting netstat test from the postinst03:51
slomo_pitti: you might want to try the gst-ffmpeg cvs snapshot i have locally... there were many timestamp (and other fixes)03:51
pittislomo_: AVI MPEG4, mp3 audio03:52
slomo_pitti: http://slomosnail.de/~slomo/temp/libgstffmpeg.so  put this in /usr/lib/gstreamer0.10 and retry :)03:53
pittislomo_: is that amd64?03:53
slomo_pitti: no... sorry03:53
Kamionogra: actually, I don't really know portmap at all, I'm afraid03:53
slomo_pitti: cvs -z3 -d:ext:developername@cvs.freedesktop.org:/cvs/gstreamer co gst-ffmpeg   if you want to build it yourself03:53
KamionI think I uploaded it once to fix something I did understand03:54
slomo_pitti: otherwise... can you upload the video somewhere? :)03:54
pittislomo_: will try it at some time03:54
ogragood, i'll try to find it out myself then ...03:54
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pittislomo_: erm, well, it's huge, and it's copyrighted, too (ripped from a friend's DVD)03:54
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jdongKamion: is it normal for a package to stay in "needs building" for nearly 24 hours?03:59
jdongKamion: https://launchpad.net/+builds/+build/24750203:59
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Kamionjdong: -> infinity04:04
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madduckdoes anyone know Dennis Kaarsemaker ?04:23
_ionHe's Seveas.04:23
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madduckhe won the Nokia 770 from the calibre.ie project survey, but he's not responded... :/04:23
madduckI hope he replies in time. I hate it when the second draw get the price because someone is AFK04:24
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_ion*cough* In that case, i'm him. ;-)04:25
mjg59madduck: He's generally active, but not so often during the day04:25
madduckmjg59: ok, i hope he answers to the mail.04:25
madduckit's been almost a week now i think.04:26
madduckbut i guess we'll just wait, given that he's known by you guys..04:26
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elmomadduck: he's been at EuroOScon recently and had limited connectivity04:28
madduckwe'll wait. thanks guys.04:28
mjg59Kamion: So there's a minor issue with usplash right now04:29
mjg59Kamion: It seems that some cards don't bother to implement palette setting in 256 colour vesa modes04:29
mjg59Kamion: So it may be necessary to add 16 bit support and use that by default, then fall back to 256 colour if we can't set that mode04:30
mjg59Which obviously means a certain amount of pain04:30
_ionIt would also be nice if usplash fell back from a failing resolution to 640x400 or so.04:30
mjg59_ion: 640x400 isn't a vesa mode, so no04:31
mjg59I don't know what you mean by a "failing resolution"04:31
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_ionE.g. here usplash.conf defaults to 1024x768 and usplash isn't able to initialize the screen in that resolution for some reason. I tried to debug it a few days ago, but didn't have success.04:31
mjg59_ion: On what hardware?04:32
_ion01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation NV28 [GeForce4 Ti 4800 SE]  (rev a1)04:32
mjg59On x86?04:32
mjg59And if you use a different resolution it works?04:32
_ionI manually changed it to 800x600 and it worked fine.04:32
gnomefreakmine works with 1024x768 but only on shutdown04:33
_iongnomefreak: Try update-initramfs -u04:33
_iongnomefreak: AFAIK usplash initially reads usplash.conf from initramfs, and from /etc on shutdown.04:34
gnomefreakits running now ty04:34
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gnomefreakok brb reboot see if it works04:34
doko_tkamppeter, pitti: I don't see UVF exceptions for foo2zjs and foomatic-filters. Did I just overlook these?04:34
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iwjIs there an reasonably easy way to get a copy of a .diff.gz which has expired from ftp.debian.org ?04:42
pittiiwj: snapshot.debian.net?04:43
pittiiwj: it usually works quite fine nowadays04:43
iwjThanks.  I thought something like that existed but I forgot the domain.  I should have zone dumped debian.org :-).04:43
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Riddelldholbach: are you planning to package the docs?04:45
tkamppeterdoko_, you should have gotten both by e-mail now (doko@ubuntu.com) -> biff.04:46
dholbachRiddell: what are you referring to?04:46
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Riddelldholbach: ubuntu-docs04:46
Riddelldholbach: doc freeze is today04:46
dholbachI'll talk to some of the folks and ask them beforehand04:46
dholbachbut yeah, I can do it04:47
Riddelldholbach: could we do it as 1 source package?04:47
doko_tkamppeter: ok, but I don't see the exception for foo2zjs04:47
dholbachRiddell: I would prefer to do that at some other time - surely it needs buildsystem/packaging changes?04:47
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Riddelldholbach: yes, it would04:48
gnomefreak_ion: ty it worked :)04:48
dholbachRiddell: I'm too busy to do that today04:48
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dholbachRiddell: can't we postpone that idea?04:49
RiddellKamion: scroll view added to mount page for kde ubiquity http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/bzr/ubiquity/ubuntu/04:49
Riddelldholbach: ok04:49
dholbachRiddell: thanks04:49
Riddelldholbach: so I'll package the kubuntu docs then04:49
ograRiddell, is the menu-xdg dep in kdelibs gnoe ? 04:50
Riddellogra: no, I can do that now04:50
ograwould be nice, thanks04:50
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tkamppeterdoko_: Current foo2zjs is from January, so it is REALLY old. The upstream package has a lot of changes, especially04:52
tkamppeter- it fixes the UDEV rules so that the automatic firmware loading for the HP LaserJet 1000, 1005, 1018, and 1020 really takes place.04:53
doko_tkamppeter: I agree, I see no reason why we should not include it. but formally we need the exception from mdz or Kamion 04:53
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tkamppeter- It adds support for many printers including LJ 1018, 1020, 102204:54
tkamppeterKamion, MDZ, WDYT about the foo2zjs update?04:55
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mdztkamppeter: not enough information to say; please email as usual04:56
mdztkamppeter: we need to weigh the risk of all the other changes vs. the changes you watn04:56
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tkamppetermdz, I have e-mailed all UVF ERs to you yesterday (and before).05:00
mdztkamppeter: I have one yesterday and one today05:00
tkamppeterdoko_: Thanks for tellin that Kamion also decides about UVF ERs, I have forwarded all to him now.05:00
tkamppetermdz: which packages?05:01
tkamppeterKamion: I have forwarded all my UVF ERs to you now -> biff.05:01
doko_tkamppeter, mdz: I uploaded all but foo2zjs05:01
mdztkamppeter: after the meeting05:02
tkamppeterThanks doko_, so it seems as I have to close some bugs.05:02
tkamppeterdoko_, Kamion, mdz, pitti: I have tested foo2zjs on the LaserJet 1020, 1022, and Color LaserJet 2600n, all are working correctly.05:03
mdztkamppeter: the meeting is in progress in #ubuntu-meeting05:03
tkamppeterThe 1022 was used with HPIJS before and this did not really work, too slow and half of the files did not print at all.05:03
pittimvo: is there a bug about the u-desktop dependency handling already or shall I create one?05:09
mvopitti: I think there is no bug yet, so feel free :)05:10
=== pitti creates
mvopitti: make sure to subscribe the livefs build masters as well :)05:10
KamionRiddell: thanks, will check it over05:13
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KamionRiddell: please use UNRELEASED as the distribution in ubiquity changelogs unless you've actually uploaded it; it makes it a lot less confusing05:15
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RiddellKamion: ok05:15
Kamionthat's quite a common convention, particularly now that dch does it by default05:15
Kamion(though my uch script overrides that to edgy, slightly unfortunately - dunno about yours05:16
pittimvo: done (bug 61684)05:16
UbugtuMalone bug 61684 in Ubuntu "Removing any u-desktop depdencency marks all other packages for auto-removal" [Untriaged,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/6168405:16
mvopitti: thanks, what do you think priority "high"?05:17
ograRiddell, thanks so much :)05:17
pittimvo: for me at least, I find it highly annoying, but maybe it's not for other people05:17
mvothe questions was high or critical ;)05:18
pittimvo: but it has the milestone tag now, so it'll be on Matt's monitor05:18
pittimvo: heh :) high then05:18
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pittimdz: I added a few milestone tags to bugs which I consider beta critical05:23
neo_Hi@ all! I've got a problem, am I in the right channel to ask for a way to track my error down?05:24
neo_It is very strange... when I'm hitting ctrl alt Fx , I don't get a console...all I see is a black screen... is there any configuration file or hint you could tell me?05:26
ivoksneo_: right channel is https://launchpad.net/malone05:26
ivoksneo_: i'm sure you'll find some duplicates05:26
neo_thank you very much!!! I'll go a take a look... bye05:27
Kamionmdz: (for after the meeting) ok to upload Riddell's ubiquity branch? it adds scrolling to the KDE mountpoints page, which is something I've already done for GTK and is needed if you have a lot of partitions to stop the UI resizing itself to be bigger than the screen05:27
KamionRiddell: merged, thanks05:28
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janimoGloubiboulga: the redhat tool for printer GUI seems to work ok, so we'll have add printer functionality in edgy05:31
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Gloubiboulgajanimo, great :)05:32
wizWill python 2.5 be avaiable in Edgy?05:32
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dholbachwiz: it is05:32
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dholbachwiz:  edgy-changes@lists.ubuntu.com05:33
wizniisssse..... (805:33
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Gloubiboulgajanimo, do you have an idea why the i386 alternate iso is still oversized?05:34
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janimoGloubiboulga: no, I took out at-spi and related gnome bits last week, but looks like it grew back05:36
janimoI'll look at the list05:36
janimoGloubiboulga: python-gnome2 is in05:37
janimowonder what put it in and when05:37
janimoGloubiboulga: hmm, it may be that recommends are now installe dby default?05:38
janimowe'll have to ask mvo05:38
Gloubiboulgaah, yes, maybe05:38
janimopython-gnpome2 is recommended only by update-manager (which uses gconf python if available)05:38
mvohello janimo! I'm in a meeting right now05:39
janimoso if handling of recommends changed05:39
mvocan we talk after it?05:39
janimomvo I know, no hurry sure :)05:39
Kamionrecommends should only be installed by default for stuff in Section: metapackages05:39
mvootherwise what Kamion said05:39
janimoKamion: hmm then it is something else, as this is Section:gnome05:40
Kamionjanimo: ship:python-gnome2                  | gnome-python                    | ldm05:40
janimoKamion: ok, thanks, seems like I don't know what I explcitelly aded to ship :(05:41
Kamionjanimo: i.e. ldm Depends: python-gnome2 and is in your ship seed05:41
janimoI remember now, it is needed by ldm.05:41
janimohmm one more resason to split g-python. I think that ldm only uses the canvas05:41
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Gloubiboulgajanimo, cpufreq and cpu-freq are two different plugins05:50
Kamionpitti: huh, I thought I'd already closed those oem-config bugs, evidently not05:51
Kamionanyway, closing05:51
lastnode_imbrandon, you around, mate?05:51
Gloubiboulgajanimo, but they do the same thing I guess, not sure that we need to have both in the archive05:51
pittiKamion: yay, one less :)05:51
imbrandonlastnode_: give me just a few minutes bro05:51
imbrandonlastnode_: reading in on a meeting atm05:51
lastnode_imbrandon, sure, we've just got all three of us in #upstream, so ready for a brief chat whenever you are05:51
imbrandonlastnode_: ok05:52
mjg59crimsun: I don't seem to be getting any audio on my Intel iMac...05:53
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janimoGloubiboulga: then it may be that the latter is better06:00
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jdonghey, anyone know if the xvid codec in our mencoder is multithreading-capable?06:18
ografabbione, is there a special key combo in sparc so i could see a bit more stuff in the bootsequence ? 06:18
jdongit seems to take the threads argument, but even at 8 threads it sticks to only 1 CPU's worth of load06:18
ogracurrently its showing an hourglass and restarts over and over 06:18
Nafallojdong: -> slomo_ :-)06:18
fabbioneogra: uh? hourglass???06:18
ograi'd like to look behind that screen06:18
fabbioneogra: i have never seen stuff like that..06:19
ograyes and a little salamander as mouse pointer06:19
fabbioneare you sure that the thinclient is a sparc CPU?06:19
ogralooks a bit like booting an apple06:19
fabbionenormal sparc goes to OBP06:19
slomo_jdong: no idea... is our xvid capable to do so? ;)06:19
fabbionethat's like a text promp06:19
fabbioneno, no idea about that06:19
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fabbionenever seen anything like that06:19
ograhmm, probably they have a non standard thing 06:19
kmrkamion: thanks for the update to imagemagick, appreciated!06:19
ograits only a thin client ... not really something thats usual sparc06:20
fabbioneogra: if they have a non-standard thingy, you will need to read on that06:20
jdongslomo_: i don't know, you're the expert :P06:20
Kamionkmr: no worries06:20
ograi was hoping for a key combo like apple has to get into the open firmware prompt06:20
Kamionsyncs are easy, once investigated ;)06:20
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fabbioneogra: stop+a06:20
fabbioneogra: that's on normal sparc06:21
ograi know people booted these clients off the d-i netboot image06:21
fabbionei don't know that thin client at all06:21
Keybukogra: pancake-waffle-butterfly-f06:21
fabbionei don't use these kind of toys..06:21
fabbioneonly *REAL* hardware06:21
kmrKamion: very good, as a debian developer I tried to help a bit with the underlying work to simply the decision to sync06:21
dholbachcan somebody give back libgnomeuimm2.6?06:21
ograKeybuk, i find the pancake key, but there is no butterfly one ...06:21
kmris there a MOTU channel or other means to draw attention to a bug I filed about a universe package?06:22
Kamionkmr: yeah, that is definitely helpful, thanks06:22
ografabbione, its a request that we suport them in out ubuntu ltsp ... if it doesnt work thats not the end of the world ...06:22
Kamionkmr: #ubuntu-motu06:22
ograbut the desgn is neat, i'd like to use the HW on my desk06:22
fabbioneogra: yeah. just kidding.. i don't know what they are... sorry06:22
kmrKamion: very end of the work very appreciated, thanks for the channel link06:23
ografabbione, apparently they work with a binary image sun offers for installation on linux servers06:23
slomo_jdong: i don't know :P06:23
fabbioneogra: can you take it to MountainView?06:24
kmrs/very end/your end/06:24
jdongslomo_: I'm playing with it...06:24
ograso worst case i could write a downloader package for it that installs and configures it06:24
ografabbione, uh ... i dont like to travel qith much HW to the US ...06:24
ograbut if whiprush is coming *he* can bring one i guess06:24
fabbioneogra: ok. i understand that.06:24
ograwhiprush, ping ? 06:24
ograhe has plenty of them06:24
whiprushogra: pong06:25
ograsee above06:25
ograwhiprush, youre coming to mountainview, right ? 06:25
whiprushI'll bring some06:26
ogracould you bring one of the sunrays ?06:26
ograyeah !06:26
ograthanks a lot :)06:26
whiprushI'll bring as many as I can06:26
jdongslomo_: grr, needs CVS or 1.2.x builds :-(06:26
fabbionewhiprush: i don't need a dedicated one.. jsut to look what we can do for them06:26
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desrtgood morning, hax0rs06:27
jdongslomo_: and I'm guessing introducing a newer xvid into edgy at this point is a bad idea? ;-)06:27
slomo_jdong: yes... edgy+1 please :)06:28
jdongslomo_: hehe, we're already dreaming about edgy+1 :)06:29
fsmwhi all!06:29
slomo_jdong: always :)06:29
fsmwis there a way to make a mirror for an specific dist (eg dapper), instead mirroring the whole repo?06:29
Nafallodebmirror should work, but this channel is for development. #ubuntu is for support.06:32
Nafallofsmw: ^06:32
ogradholbach, did you say you would be on the "evo doesnt jump to next message after delete" bug ? its still here 06:34
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=== fabbione can finally upgrade to edgy
dholbachogra: it's reported upstream06:34
fabbionethese meetings are taking too long06:34
ogradholbach, with high importance so we have a chance to see a fix in edgy ? 06:35
dholbachogra: i hope we get a fix too06:35
Kamionmdz: oh, heh, that progress-info-jumps-around bug turned out to be really easy following jdahlin's hint: make it ellipsize, make it expand and fill, make the surrounding hbox fill but not expand, blam, progress info label is magically locked to the size of the progress bar above06:35
ograi'll switch to thunderbird if we dont ... it slows me down to much :/06:36
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ograi can bear a lot annoyances, especially in evo ... but well ... at some point it gets to much ...06:36
=== ogra stops ranting now :)
dholbachogra: thanks :)06:37
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=== pitti hugs dholbach and finally looks into the opal FTBFS
pittiyay silly objcopy06:40
=== dholbach hugs pitti
dholbachsee you later!06:40
jdonginfinity: poke06:43
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fabbionemvo, iwj: ping?06:49
Riddellpitti: any chance of a language pack update for beta?  getting the kde stock strings fixed would be great06:50
pittiRiddell: if Mithrandir and mdz are fine with it, sure06:50
fabbionehem.. unping06:50
pittiRiddell: oh, dear, the daily langpacks are ages old, there must be something wrong; I'll investigate shortly06:51
Riddellpitti: let me know if you fix that and I'll test them out to confirm the kde issue is fixed06:52
Nafallopitti: oh! I thought that was intentional or something. I could have told you days ago. Will do next time :-).06:53
mdzpitti: yes, I think an update would be appropriate06:54
mdzKamion: oh good06:54
mdzKamion: scrolling for kde mountpoints -> OK with me06:55
mdztkamppeter: ok, so regarding your freeze exception requests06:55
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carlosRiddell: hi, katapult is also affected with https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kde-i18n/+bug/6004907:10
UbugtuMalone bug 60049 in kde-i18n "Import of translations for KDE's desktop-* failed" [Untriaged,Confirmed]  07:10
Kamionogra: bug 61688 fixed07:16
UbugtuMalone bug 61688 in lsb "[Edgy]  "unbound variable" in /etc/lsb-base-logging.sh" [Untriaged,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/6168807:16
pitticarlos: do you know why the edgy tarballs in your rookery home are so old?07:24
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pitticarlos: likewise with dapper&co07:25
carlosthose are being updated every day...07:25
pitticarlos: latest version is from Sept 1207:25
carloslet me check whether I did a mistake...07:25
pitticarlos: and edgy is Sept 1007:25
carlospitti: ... I did a mistake... :-(07:25
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carlosI was pushing them to the wrong directory...07:26
carloslet me fix it07:26
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carlospitti: fixed07:28
pitticarlos: thanks07:29
carlostomorrow the push should work as expected07:29
pittiah, so we don't have current tarballs on rookery now?07:29
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carlospitti: edgy is  another thing, seems like I forgot to move it back to daily snapshots...07:29
pittiwell, tomorrow should be fine07:29
carlospitti: we do07:29
carlosI mean that tomorrow, the updates will go to the right place07:30
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ograKamion, thanks :)07:41
pittidholbach: gar, opal debian/rules makes me wanting nasty things to it07:43
pittidholbach: I'll fix pkg-create-dbgsym to cope with it, but it won't change the fact that opal's -dbg deb is empty07:44
dholbachpitti: that's ok with me :)07:48
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dholbachpitti: thanks a lot07:48
pittiI mean, I can fix opal to just not build a -dbg at all, since it is useless anyway07:49
dholbachas you like it07:51
dholbachI had no chance to talk to Kilian about it yet07:51
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siretartis main already frozen for beta release?08:06
fabbioneKamion,  mdz: do we need to start to ask permssion to uploads pkgs in main?08:06
siretartI'd like to upload a new xine08:06
fabbionepitti: ping?08:06
fabbionedoko: ping08:06
pittifabbione: hey dude08:06
siretarthuhu fabbione, hi pitti 08:06
fabbionepitti: there is an upgrade bug od cupsys from dapper to edgy. It's a missing C/R somewhere.08:06
mdzfabbione: I was about to announce the freeze, but uploads are not locked down yet08:07
fabbionepitti: you should probably take a look at it08:07
pittifabbione: thanks for spotting, will do08:07
pittifabbione: do you have the output somewhere?08:07
mdzprobably won't be until tomorrow, or perhaps even monday depending on how things go08:07
zygapitti: whoah for debug magick!08:07
fabbionemdz: ok, i have a bug fix for mdadm upgrading from dapper. It's just the way the shell is called. nothing more08:07
pittizyga: :)08:07
fabbionepitti: no sorry.. console-setup did trash my X session during the dist-upgrade08:07
fabbionepitti: had to kill X to get keyboard back08:07
mdzfabbione: sounds appropriate for beta.  set the milestone on the bug and go ahead08:07
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fabbionemdz: no bug.. i just found it myself08:08
fabbionemdz: i was dist upgrading my laptop since i didn't get that far before the meeting08:08
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doko_fabbione: pong08:10
fabbionedoko: are there known issues with python2.4-minimal? it gave me errors dist upgrading from dapper08:11
tkamppetermdz, I was for dinner, I am back, you wanted to tell me something about the UVF ERs08:11
mdztkamppeter: you asked which ones I had08:11
mdztkamppeter: I have only one outstanding, which is foo2zjs received yesterday08:12
fabbionedoko: it seems like it's a missing dependency. It doesn't fail on a fully upgraded system08:12
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fabbionemdz: mdadm fix uploaded.08:13
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tkamppetermdz, so foomatic-db, foomatic-filters, foomatic-db-hpijs, and HPLIP are all approved and uploaded?08:18
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fabbionerodarvus: ping?08:20
mdztkamppeter: I have replied to all of the emails I have received from you08:23
mdztkamppeter: I do not upload the packages for you; pitti can help with that08:23
fabbionewell this ride wan't too bad08:23
fabbionemdz: we should probably create a meta bug in LP for dapper -> edgy upgrades08:25
fabbionemdz: there are a few.. not many08:25
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tkamppeterRiddell, Kamion, was it someone of you talking with me about a printing problem with KDE?08:26
pittitkamppeter: yes, they are08:26
pittimdz: ^ (FYI)08:27
mdzfabbione: a tag would be better08:29
mdzfabbione: also they should have the beta milestone08:29
mdzsince beta will be an upgrade target08:29
fabbionemdz: ok08:29
fabbionehmm Frank is already offline08:31
fabbionewhat package provides themes for usplash?08:31
fabbioneoh nevermind there is already a bug filed08:34
Nafallodoko: ping :-)08:37
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lucasthe ruby interpreter still segfaults on powerpc (on the buildd at least)08:44
lucasI've already mailed infinity twice about it, and once ubuntu-devel. what else should I do, given that I don't have access to a powerpc system ?08:44
fabbionelucas: coordinate with Riddel08:45
fabbionehe is working on it08:45
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pittiMithrandir, mdz: permission to upload a new pkg-create-dbgsym which fixes the opal FTBFS?08:46
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mdzpitti: certainly08:49
fabbionemvo is offline too...08:49
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fabbionemdz: one question.. all these hacks we are doing to distupgrade from dapper to edgy, like installing new dpkg/apt before the rest of the world..08:49
fabbionehow are we going to reflect that in server tools?08:50
=== fabbione takes a break and will rethink about it for a bit
pittidholbach: pkg-create-dbgsym 0.14 uploaded, right in time for this cron.daily; so in about an hour we can ask for a give-back of opal08:53
=== dholbach hugs pitti
=== pitti -> dinner, bbl
dholbachand after that a give back of ekiga08:54
dholbachpitti: enjoy08:54
pittidholbach: bah, does that fail as well?08:54
dholbachit requires opal08:54
dholbachopal and pwlib are ... weird :)08:54
pittiyou bet...08:54
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tkamppetermdz, I do not ask you to upload anything, I have only asked for the current state. Uploads were done by pitti, and doko_.09:02
pittitkamppeter: (FYI, you can check this on https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/foomatic-db and similar)09:03
tkamppeterRiddell: ping09:03
tkamppeterKamion: ping09:03
ajmitchmorning all09:06
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ajmitchjdong: 5am in melbourne, you'd be lucky09:08
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jdonginfinity: ARRRISE from your eternal sleep!09:09
Treenaksinfernal sleep?09:09
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micahcowanif he arose from it, it could hardly be eternal, now could it? :p09:10
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jdonganyone else have a good explanation why a trivially small package would wait 24 hours and still await building? :P09:12
jdongother than karma's trying to punish me for my dyslexic QA?09:12
slomo_jdong: openoffice and build priorities ;)09:13
jdongslomo_: grr, openoffice09:13
jdongyou guys shoved like 3 through within the past 24 hours :P09:13
Nafallono, there where more than 3 :-)09:14
tsengit isnt really " you guys "09:14
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tsenginfinity: could you look at "chroot problem" on beagle 0.2.9-1ubuntu2?09:16
tsenginfinity: amd64, ia64, ppc09:16
tsenginfinity: please09:16
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tsengwhatever that means09:17
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cbx33guys...how do I go about installing the smp kernel?09:24
micahcowanmicah prefers the lim[x->5]  1/(x-5) approach. There! Now you're guaranteed to find infinity.09:25
micahcowanspeaking of which: http://immense-world.blogspot.com/2006/09/mathematics-genius.html09:26
Burgworkmicahcowan, that is kind of off topic09:26
micahcowanWell, it's at least heading in that direction, yes. My apologies.09:27
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Burgworkcbx33, this is -devel, not user support. If you use x86, smp support is built into the standard kernel and enabled upon cpu detection09:27
NafalloBurgwork: not just x86 fwiw :-)09:28
cbx33sorry Burgwork 09:28
BurgworkNafallo, yes, but if you have big iron, you need specific kernels for dapper09:28
Nafalloinfinity: where is erlang-nox? :-)09:29
NafalloBurgwork: that would be x86 ;-). amd64 and friend have the SMP-stuff as well :-)09:29
NafalloBurgwork: that's more my point :-)09:29
Kamiontkamppeter: yes?09:31
fabbionegood night everybody09:32
fabbionecya tomorrw09:32
NafalloKamion: maybe you know where erlang-nox is? should have been built after the erlang sync and ejabberd needs it :-).09:33
mdzpitti: do the ddebs have proper dependencies?09:34
KamionNafallo: version number?09:34
NafalloKamion: 1:11.b.1-109:35
KamionNafallo: there is no package called erlang-nox in the archive09:35
Kamionah, it's in NEW09:35
pittimdz: FSVO 'proper', yes; they depend on the exact version of the corresponding deb and don't have any other dependencies09:35
KamionNafallo: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+queue for future reference09:35
NafalloKamion: ah! care to wave it through so that I can close the "please update ejabberd"-bug? :-)09:36
mdzpitti: I mean, e.g. where a package depends on libraries, does it depend/recommend/suggest the corresponding debug symbols?09:36
pittimdz: ah; no, it doesn't09:36
mdzI think it's appropriate to at least suggest all of the symbols, and in some cases recommend09:36
=== Nafallo bookmarks
KamionNafallo: guess what I was doing right after telling you it was in NEW ...09:36
pittimdz: I was going to handle that in apport-retrace09:36
mdzpitti: hmm, interesting09:36
NafalloKamion: thanks! :-)09:36
Kamionyou're welcome09:36
pittimdz: suggests: would be appropriate, though, I'll TODO that09:36
pittimdz: the more important thing is that I have to Conflicts: to a -dbg, if present09:37
BenCdid lp just die?09:38
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tsengBenC: works for me09:38
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ajmitchgave me issues a few minutes ago09:38
BenCworking now it seems09:39
BenCwent away for about 1 minute09:39
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mdztkamppeter: btw, it looks like your uploads used an invalid email address in the .changes file.  If you use a correct email address (a confirmed email address in launchpad) you will receive notification when your uploads are accepted09:49
tkamppetermdz, I did not do any upload. pitti and doko_ did them. pitti told me that one needs special permissions for uploading.09:58
tkamppeterKamion, did you have a problem of printing with KDE? What is exactly your problem?09:59
mdztkamppeter: we often use "upload" to refer to the .changes and associated files which are uploaded09:59
mdztkamppeter: what I mean is that if you prepare the .changes correctly, and then give it to pitti or doko, you can still receive a notification when it is processed09:59
Kamiontkamppeter: I don't use KDE, so no, that wasn't me09:59
mdztkamppeter: usually this is done by setting the DEBEMAIL environment variable09:59
mdztkamppeter: it was Riddell who mentioned a KDE printing issue during the meeting earlier10:00
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doko_mdz: I didn't see  an approval for foo2zjs10:00
Kamionmdz: bug 61723 often happens to me when I run setupcon from an X terminal (X apparently gets horribly confused by the invasion of /dev/console and throws a wobbly), so if that's happening during upgrade, I think I should beta it10:01
UbugtuMalone bug 61723 in console-setup "[PPC]  distupgrade from dapper to edgy kills X keyboard" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/6172310:01
tkamppeterfor example foo2zjs_20060625dfsg-2_i386.changes? Do I have to edit the "Changed-by:" field in it so that I get notification?10:02
mdzKamion: agreed10:02
mdzKamion: I have an idle ppc here if you need help testing10:02
mdzI think it may even have a fresh dapper on it10:03
Kamionnot for that particular bug, but it may be useful for other things10:03
tkamppeterThanks, mdz, have added this variable in my .bashrc10:03
tkamppeterRiddell, are you here?10:04
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mdztkamppeter: when you run dpkg-buildpackage, it will put $DEBEMAIL in the right place10:07
tkamppeterdoko_, pitti: mdz has approved the update of foo2zjs.10:07
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tkamppetermdz, I will see it on my next package build.10:07
pittitkamppeter: ah, nice10:08
doko_tkamppeter: uploaded10:10
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agutierrI have a problem remastering a ubuntu cd: after the isolinux load and search the cdrom drivers, I have the next error: "The CD available is not a Ubuntu cd" :?10:14
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desrtso uh.  the ATI thing is cute.10:17
desrti wonder how we're gonna deal with it.10:17
BenCdeal with what?10:19
HiddenWolfBenC: fglrx now comes in a -legacy edition too10:20
HiddenWolfdesrt: -legacy will only be for cards that are well supported by open drivers, so it shouldn't be too big a deal.10:20
desrtya.  time to relive the madwifi thing10:20
desrtexcept backwards10:20
desrtthe new ati drivers (fglrx) drop support for a bunch of cards10:21
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Burgworkdesrt, aren't closed and semi closed drivers great?10:21
desrti guess we'll have fglrx and fglrx_og (old generation)10:22
Yagisanpitti, you here ?10:22
desrtwith _og only enabled for the cards that _require_ it10:22
HiddenWolfBurgwork: I'm secretly hoping they'll open up the old stuff at least partially. Call me an optimist.10:22
HiddenWolfdesrt: og would only be for pre-9250, which all work fine with open drivers already, so there is no real _need_ for those closed drivers. It's just the upgrade that should be handled.10:23
desrtfglrx works better than dri in most cases10:24
Yagisanpitti, O_O -> jamie@doomguy:~/COIT12170_Data_Comms$ *** stack smashing detected ***: /usr/lib/openoffice/program/soffice.bin terminated10:24
HiddenWolfdesrt: but it's open, so you can debug it and fix it and backtrace it. :)10:24
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KaiLRiddell, amarok 1.4.3 is searching a "libvisual-0.4-0", which isn't anywhere :(10:46
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JamieBEHello, could someone with javascript know-how answer me a really quick question?10:52
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beunoI'll give it a try10:53
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gnomefreakJamieBE: support questions should be in #ubuntu, #ubuntu+1, #kubuntu, #xubuntu. this channel should be used only for development topics. (im guessing this is what sharms meant by !offtopic) :)10:58
beunoJamieBE: you can private me if you want to10:59
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gnomefreakubotu test10:59
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JamieBEOK, This is a little complicated. I have an ubuntu app - Lodju which is now quite outdated and a little unsupported. What this app does is created HTML pages for information and images you feed it to create a web gallery. It uses python variables within HTML templates that came packaged with it to dynamically generate the complete HTML product. The problem is that in the HTML thumbnails page the code basically produces: Show image one. Show Image two11:00
JamieBE. Show Image three...all next to eachother and so on... What I want is for 4 columns on images (as I have different resolutions of thumbnails) to sit neatly within a valign="center" table cell. What i can to is to call a new table with tr and td for each image, and then on every multiple of 4 call a <br clear="all"> but I need to generate this as the HTML is build by the app. Hence the javascript idea. I need something along the lines in pseudo code 11:00
JamieBEof: <script = javascript> variable of integer called "Num1". Set Num1 to %python.value. If Num1 = multiple of 4 (4th table generated) then javascript.write <br clear="all"></script>11:00
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dholbachcan somebody please give back libgnomeuimm2.6?11:10
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tkamppeterdoko_, thanks for the upload, I am closing some more bugs now.11:16
JamieBEIn Javascript is there a way of saying "If this number is a multiple of 4 then..."11:18
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Kamionuse the % operator, as in many other languages11:20
Kamion(number % 4) will be zero if number is a multiple of 411:21
=== Kamion -> bed, night all
JamieBENight kamion11:21
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mdzdoko: when did oo.o start using bzip2?  I don't see it in the changelog11:38
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Riddellmdz: are we frozen yet?12:03
NafalloRiddell: mail on ubuntu-devel-announce :-)12:05
Nafallothat's a yes btw ;-)12:06
mdzRiddell: right on schedule12:07
mdzRiddell: though we're a little bit slushy12:07
mdzI still wouldn't recommend any swimming12:08
Riddellmdz: right, I have a slightly altered usplash from kwwii to upload and kubuntu-docs if that's ok12:08
mdzRiddell: yep12:09

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