[12:09] <ajmitch> can we attach files to bugs by email yet?
[12:10] <Fujitsu> ajmitch, nope.
[12:10] <Fujitsu> I was looking at that bug last night.
[12:10] <ajmitch> irritating
[12:11] <Fujitsu> Yeah.
[12:11] <Fujitsu> There's no way to do merges properly without using the web interface D:
[12:12] <Fujitsu> And wouldn't it be nice if LP exposed a sane machine-parsable interface so external applications could be written to access it, rather than having things like Conseil parse the HTML?
[12:12] <ajmitch> it will
[12:12] <Keybuk> "do merges" ?
[12:12] <Fujitsu> Keybuk, file merge requests.
[12:12] <Fujitsu> (with debdiffs)
[12:13] <Fujitsu> (for non-devs)
[12:13] <Keybuk> I still don't follow?  Why do you use LP for that?
[12:14] <ajmitch> there are teams on launchpad for sponsoring uploads
[12:14] <Fujitsu> Keybuk, the new merge workflow means non-MOTUs have to file bugs, attach debdiffs, and subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors to get a change done.
[12:14] <Keybuk> ok
[12:14] <Fujitsu> It's not a bad system, except that it can't be automated.
[12:20] <mdz> Fujitsu: launchpad has an XML-RPC interface
[12:20] <Fujitsu> mdz, I read on the Launchpad wiki that it didn't have it yet...
[12:21] <Fujitsu> How long has it had it, and where is it documented?
[12:21] <mdz> months
[12:21] <Fujitsu> When I asked a couple of months ago they didn't have it.
[12:21] <mdz> probably on help.launchpad.net somewhere
[12:22] <Fujitsu> Yes, I'm checking now...
[12:22] <Fujitsu> Thanks :)
[12:22] <mdz> searching for 'rpc' on the front page finds it
[12:22] <ajmitch> mdz: bug 61550, anything else you want on it?
[12:22] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 61550 in f-spot "UVF exception request for f-spot 0.2.1" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61550
[12:22] <mdz> it doesn't support attachments or subscriptions yet as far as I know
[12:24] <mdz> ajmitch: it's a new feature release :-/
[12:24] <ajmitch> mdz: yeah, that's why I wasn't sure of getting it 
[12:25] <mdz> ajmitch: I'd appreciate a more detailed rationale; I commented on the bug
[12:25] <ajmitch> ok
[12:25] <ajmitch> thanks for looking
[12:25] <Fujitsu> mdz, I wouldn't say that Launchpad had an XML-RPC interface... I'd say that Malone had a severely crippled attempt at an XML-RPC method for filing bugs.
[12:26] <Fujitsu> But it's a start.
[12:26] <elmo> Fujitsu: it has an XML-RPC interface that's a WIP
[12:26] <Fujitsu> elmo, there is actually some work being done on it?
[12:27] <elmo> no, we just added the functionality to taunt and tease people tantalus-style
[12:27] <elmo> (or: yes, of course it is)
[12:27] <elmo> s/it/there/
[12:27] <Fujitsu> OK, good :_)
[12:27] <Fujitsu> *:)
[12:29] <fdsd> hey guys does edgy still use usplash?
[12:29] <Fujitsu> fdsd, it's completely different, but yes.
[12:30] <fdsd> Fujitsu, is there a guide on how to change the boot splash?
[12:30] <Fujitsu> fdsd, yes, but I can't remember where it is.
[12:30] <Fujitsu> On the wiki somewhere, I think.
[12:31] <fdsd> Fujitsu, okay, I made my own project out of the stable livecds but the kernel used on the ppc version has issues with firewire so I would like to modify edgy (powerpc) live cd to do the same thing.. 
[12:35] <Burgwork> fdsd, talk to Sevea
[12:36] <Burgwork> seveas, rather
[12:36] <fdsd> Burgwork, okay
[12:36] <Fujitsu> Yes, Seveas is master of all things usplash-customisation.
[12:36] <fdsd> Burgwork, lol sounds good
[12:38] <gnomefreak> !usplash
[12:38] <fdsd> Do you guys know if its possible to use the egdy knot 3 powerpc kernel and insert it into stable?, I modified the initrd files to include the /lib/modules dir, but it just stalls at boot
[12:38] <fdsd> any idea?
[12:38] <Spads> Also I love how people think ftp is "File TRansfer Program"
[12:38] <Spads> mcm
[12:38] <gnomefreak> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/USplashCustomizationHowto
[12:38] <fdsd> into the livecd
[12:39] <fdsd> gnomefreak, yeah I use that howto for stable, but how about for edgy knot 3?
[12:39] <gnomefreak> i havent tried it yet im assuming the same
[12:40] <fdsd> ok
[12:40] <Kamion> totally different
[12:40] <gnomefreak> the alternatives file and everything else needed hasnt changed names that im aware of
[12:40] <fdsd> yeah I figured it looks completely different
[12:40] <Kamion> pngtobogl -> pngtousplash
[12:41] <fdsd> there is a new utility?
[12:41] <Kamion> you need to write a short C file with theme structures in it
[12:41] <gnomefreak> ah
[12:41] <Kamion> it's basically just a renaming because usplash doesn't always use BOGL any more, and in principle the structures might not stay the same
[12:41] <Kamion> don't use vga= any more
[12:41] <fdsd> I see, so is there a howto?
[12:41] <Kamion> not to my knowledge
[12:42] <Kamion> I'd grab one of the existing usplash theme packages and poke around
[12:42] <Kamion> usplash-theme-ubuntu should be reasonable
[12:42] <fdsd> Kamion, does pngtousplash make the C file with the theme stuctures?
[12:42] <Kamion> yes
[12:42] <Kamion> er
[12:42] <Kamion> no
[12:42] <Kamion> :-)
[12:42] <fdsd> lol
[12:42] <Kamion> pngtousplash just converts a .png file to a C file representing that .png
[12:43] <fdsd> pngtousplash usplash-artwork.png > usplash-artwork.c
[12:43] <Kamion> but you need a C wrapper that includes to potentially multiple such files and provides structure descriptions of them
[12:43] <Kamion> see usplash-theme-ubuntu.c
[12:43] <Kamion> s/includes to/includes/
[12:43] <jdub> Kamion: who is dealing with mozcorp re: firefox stuff atm?
[12:43] <Kamion> actually s/includes/links/, you don't need to #include them
[12:43] <Kamion> jdub: dunno, sorry
[12:43] <fdsd> Kamion, where can I find that package
[12:44] <Kamion> fdsd: apt-get source usplash-theme-ubuntu - it's in edgy
[12:44] <fdsd> Kamion, I dont have ubuntu installed right now
[12:44] <Kamion> well pick it out of archive.ubuntu.com in the usual way
[12:44] <Kamion> you're on #ubuntu-devel so I expect you know :-)
[12:44] <fdsd> Kamion, ok
[12:44] <fdsd> Kamion, im a guest
[12:45] <Kamion> s/know/know or can make educated guesses/
[12:46] <fdsd> Kamion, well I have
[12:46] <Kamion> also if you aren't running Ubuntu you will have difficulty building theme packages
[12:46] <Kamion> you need to have libusplash-dev installed
[12:47] <fdsd> Kamion, I will install it to modify it
[12:49] <jdub> "I haven't been this excited since the introduction of devfs." - Mark Rosenstand on upstart-devel list
[12:49] <mjg59> Promising. Erm.
[01:00] <slomo_> infinity: ping?
[01:07] <Nafallo> Kamion: you just synced erlang and ejabberd? :-)
[01:07] <Nafallo> s/just// ;-)
[01:07] <Nafallo> thanks in that case :-)
[01:07] <Fujitsu> Nafallo, not really just... It was quite some time ago :P
[01:07] <Nafallo> Fujitsu: you, noticed now :-)
[01:07] <Kamion> Nafallo: no
[01:07] <fdsd> Hey guys, Do you know what the pool directory is on the ubuntu livecd?
[01:08] <Nafallo> hm, so thanks whoever did that :-)
[01:08] <Kamion> fdsd: it's for various packages that we want to make available after installation but don't actually want to have preinstalled
[01:08] <Fujitsu> Nafallo, about 50 minutes ago.
[01:08] <fdsd> Kamion, oh cool
[01:08] <Kamion> fdsd: chiefly for unusual network access methods and means to bootstrap yourself up for such (i.e. compiler and kernel headers)
[01:09] <Kamion> though I think the latter are in desktop now
[01:09] <Kamion> see http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/seeds/edgy/ship-live for the top-level list of things in there
[01:11] <fdsd> Kamion, I am trying to take the kernel from the edgy powerpc knot3 live cd and put it in the 6.06 desktop powerpc livecd, I extracted the vmlinuz files put them in /casper/powerpc and /boot/  and transfered /lib/modules over and inserted them also into the initrd.gz file, do you know if I need to do anything else?
[01:12] <Kamion> I thought there was a minor kernel/udev compatibility issue with using edgy's kernel on dapper
[01:12] <Kamion> but others would know more than I on that
[01:12] <fdsd> Kamion, it hangs on boot
[01:12] <jdong> don't you kind of need kernel modules?
[01:12] <Kamion> I imagine you screwed up one of the many steps required to get the above procedure exactly right
[01:13] <jdong> oh, nvm
[01:13] <Kamion> yes, you'll also need to update /lib/modules in the squashfs
[01:13] <Kamion> but it's probably not that
[01:13] <fdsd> Kamion, I did
[01:13] <Kamion> my guess is you got the initrd.gz format wrong
[01:13] <Kamion> check mkinitramfs for exactly how it creates it
[01:13] <fdsd> Kamion, I modified the initrd.gz all the time for usplash
[01:13] <Kamion> I don't know then, sorry
[01:14] <Kamion> upgrading the kernel is not an easy task - it takes us a while to cope with the fallout each time, these days
[01:14] <fdsd> ok
[01:15] <fdsd> I thought it might have to do with the new init process
[01:15] <jdub> tseng: ping
[01:15] <Kamion> fdsd: no, not if you didn't suck in upstart
[01:15] <Kamion> the new kernel doesn't require upstart
[01:15] <jdub> slomo_: ping
[01:15] <slomo_> jdong: pong
[01:15] <jdub> heh
[01:15] <slomo_> oh, wrong one
[01:16] <jdub> slomo_: you planning to migrate all mono stuff to 2.0?
[01:16] <slomo_> jdub: no that would be insane and useless... why?
[01:16] <fdsd> Kamion, I guess I can just modify the knot 3 livecd, hopefully someone will post a howto on how to modify the usplash 
[01:16] <jdub> slomo_: just noticed that banshee has cranked up
[01:17] <slomo_> jdub: but f-spot and banshee upstream switched over... so we'll get 2.0 stuff slowly
[01:17] <jdub> slomo_: for edgy?
[01:17] <Kamion> not unless there's a damn good reason, at this point
[01:17] <jdub> just worried we're going to have yucky duplicate action
[01:18] <Burgwork> slomo_, that would be Kamion sharpening his knives ;)
[01:18] <jdub> though thus far not on the desktop CD
[01:18] <slomo_> jdub: f-spot no... but banshee already is and we also have some other 2.0 stuff in universe already
[01:18] <Burgwork> Kamion, is there a reason why still have gthumb on the desktop cd?
[01:19] <jdub> mmm, good point
[01:19] <slomo_> jdub: if upstream switches we switch too... but everything else just makes no sense :)
[01:20] <Kamion> Burgwork: the arguments did not appear conclusive to me
[01:20] <Burgwork> Kamion, arguments over which to ship or over whether or not they are duplicative?
[01:20] <micahcowan> the latter
[01:21] <Kamion> Burgwork: arguments on whether f-spot provided everything that real gthumb users actually needed
[01:21] <Burgwork> ah, taht
[01:21] <Kamion> it is possible to duplicate much of something's functionality without providing a complete replacement
[01:21] <Burgwork> yes
[01:22] <jdub> Kamion: and the only reason this matters is because we've shipped gthumb previously?
[01:22] <Kamion> jdub: yes
[01:22] <jdub> considering that 'real gthumb users' will get it via upgrade, how much does that matter?
[01:22] <Kamion> anyway, I'm not that interested in the discussion, we aren't desperately short of space right now and we found a number of very lucrative ways of saving space
[01:22] <Kamion> take it up with a core developer who cares ;)
[01:23] <jdub> what are the other space-saving changes?
[01:24] <mjg59> Kamion: ubiquity seems to have rewritten my partition table even though I didn't change its contents?
[01:24] <jdub> Kamion: (who ultimately makes that decision? isn't it roughly you?)
[01:24] <tseng> jdub: hello
[01:24] <mjg59> It's possible that it didn't - I failed to check properly beforehand
[01:24] <jdub> yo tseng 
[01:24] <Kamion> move the Ubuntu book to online content only, recode the video to make more sensible use of space, vim -> vim-tiny, console-* -> console-setup, ongoing work on recoding .pngs, on-the-fly PPD generation, getting rid of some other unused printing stuff, probably more stuff I forgot
[01:24] <infinity> jdub: Whoever collects a rough concensus from a few people and then edits the seeds.
[01:25] <Kamion> jdub: anyone in core-dev can edit the seeds; final decision in case of conflict would be the technical board, of which I am not a member
[01:25] <tseng> jdub: whats up?
[01:25] <jdub> i guess i'll talk to sebuild and dhbuild
[01:25] <micahcowan> Burgwork, the thread discussing gthumb/f-spot is quite large, but you can see it at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2006-July/thread.html#19593 (the mono one)
[01:26] <jdub> tseng: ended up pinging slomo
[01:26] <tseng> jdub: oh
[01:26] <tseng> jdub: thats always a good idea
[01:26] <tseng> slomo is brilliant
[01:26] <Burgwork> micahcowan, I remember that, but it never came to a conclusion
[01:26] <tseng> I'm useless
[01:26] <Kamion> almost all the above changes were more lucrative than gthumb, but they did not attract as much attention because people find it harder to think about more subtle but more worthwhile changes rather than "omg let's remove an application at a time"
[01:26] <ajmitch> at the moment gthumb is still used as the default import action
[01:27] <Kamion> mjg59: happy to look at a partman log, if you used manual partitioning
[01:27] <mjg59> Kamion: Sure
[01:27] <mjg59> I'll take a look myself first
[01:27] <Kamion> mjg59: and it's also entirely possible that partman will do that anyway *shrug*
[01:27] <Kamion> it's probably a bug, but where to start ...
[01:28] <jdub> Kamion: i'm not raising it as a matter of gaining space
[01:28] <micahcowan> Burgwork, I think the (non-explicit) conclusion was more or less that there were enough people who needed feature-sets in the one that weren't in the other, that they were both necessary (although I still don't see why that means they both have to be on the CD, along with mono). But I just don't care enough about it to be bothered.
[01:28] <Kamion> jdub: I was explicitly raising it as a matter of gaining space, originally
[01:28] <Kamion> and most people talk about it in those terms
[01:28] <Kamion> "why are we wasting space on this when we could be using it on such-and-such"
[01:29] <ajmitch> jdub: f-spot --view still sucks, and being feature stuff won't really see love for edgy
[01:29] <jdub> ajmitch: yeah, i'm thinking the major use case people are concerned about is porn, and they don't want porn in their photo management application
[01:29] <ajmitch> heh
[01:30] <Keybuk> worryingly, that's probably true :p
[01:30] <tseng> jdub: and then there are the people that refuse to accept they are part of the Matrix
[01:30] <Fujitsu> ajmitch, haha.
[01:30] <tseng> jdub: er.. that you can sort photos w/o directories
[01:30] <Keybuk> though I find nautilus and eog fine for viewing porn
[01:30] <Keybuk> I get to tile multiple pleasing pictures
[01:30] <Keybuk> *ahem*
[01:30] <tseng> jdub: we don't free a mind past a certain age
[01:31] <jdub> Keybuk: and set them as backgrounds? :)
[01:31] <Fujitsu> This is the second time this has come up in 48 hours :P
[01:31] <Keybuk> jdub: heh, yes
[01:31] <Keybuk> it's much funnier when poeple see screenshots then
[01:31] <Burgwork> micahcowan, I saw a lot of edge use cases
[01:32] <infinity> slomo_: pong
[01:32] <micahcowan> Burgwork, yeah.
[01:32] <jdub> Keybuk: "is this your sister's laptop?"
[01:32] <Kamion> micahcowan: (f-spot wasn't the first thing that dragged mono in)
[01:32] <Keybuk> mono is vaguely interesting
[01:33] <slomo_> infinity: (please give-back tomboy on sparc) do you have any ETA for apache2-dev and apache-dev beeing installable at the same time again? :)
[01:33] <Keybuk> for a while it seemed to be the poster child of GNOME's future
[01:33] <jdub> wow, this thread was totally derailed by noise and uninteresting goals
[01:33] <Keybuk> but the wind seems to be blowing towards Python at the moment
[01:33] <infinity> slomo_: https://launchpad.net/+builds/+build/247087/  <-- Already done.
[01:33] <Fujitsu> Keybuk, good.
[01:33] <Kamion> infinity: oh, while you're here, livefs cron jobs?
[01:33] <infinity> slomo_: As for apache, it'll get done after I do some "OMG, beta freeze" stuff for the day.
[01:33] <infinity> Kamion: Done last night.
[01:33] <micahcowan> Kamion, oh. Tomboy, right?  Didn't remember that it had started there and moved on to f-spot.
[01:33] <tseng> Keybuk: people who equated mono with The One Future were faux-journalists misquoting miguel
[01:33] <slomo_> infinity: oh... you're too fast for me :) thanks
[01:33] <Kamion> infinity: ah, cool, thanks
[01:34] <Kamion> micahcowan: right
[01:34] <ajmitch> jdub: I have fix for f-spot --view crashing here to upload
[01:34] <jdub> Keybuk: i added that "haven't been this excited since devfs" comment to my sig file ;)
[01:34] <Keybuk> Fujitsu: why good?  surely the more languages we have complete development environments for, the better?
[01:34] <Keybuk> jdong: lol
[01:34] <Keybuk> jdub: lol
[01:34] <Keybuk> I mean
[01:34] <jdong> hehe
[01:34] <Keybuk> I spent all of yesterday evening getting "MOST IMPORTANT CHANGE IN 30 YEARS!!" jokes
[01:34] <jdub> Keybuk: that was GOLD
[01:34] <jdub> Keybuk: where's that? lugradio?
[01:34] <Kamion> micahcowan: I parenthesised it because I don't think it's especially critical, and could be removed if we really wanted - although now that we've got a lot of PR saying that we're going to be shipping Mono by default in edgy, it's hard to go back
[01:34] <Keybuk> yeah
[01:35] <jdub> bonus
[01:35] <Keybuk> I'm a guest on Monday's show
[01:35] <jdub> should be a good episode
[01:35] <jdub> cute boys, cute girls
[01:35] <tseng> Kamion: I wouldnt cry, for the record
[01:36] <Keybuk> it's interesting
[01:36] <Keybuk> what would we put on instead of mono?
[01:36] <tseng> Kamion: One cd is one of our most important features
[01:36] <Keybuk> if you said "telepathy, farsight, galago and avahi"
[01:36] <Keybuk> then I would wave mono goodbye today
[01:36] <micahcowan> Kamion, yes, I heard that argument. I thought it was a little humorous, because at the time people started arguing about whether to include mono, the response to space issues was that we had a decent amount of space at that time. Now that we /are/ hitting space boundaries, and the question was asked regarding what to remove, the first thing that was said was that mono isn't attractive because now that we've got it in there, it's given us good PR 
[01:36] <micahcowan> ^_^
[01:36] <Keybuk> but f-spot is damned nice
[01:36] <ajmitch> damn, added fix to wrong bzr branch
[01:36] <slomo_> Keybuk: avahi is not interesting... only avahi-daemon is missing ;)
[01:37] <Kamion> micahcowan: I don't think anyone actually researched the space issues before saying that ...
[01:37] <Kamion> (unfortunately)
[01:37] <Kamion> they just said "yeah sure loads of space let's go shopping"
[01:37] <Keybuk> I'd still rather see OpenOffice go away, and get replaced by something that's not fucking awful
[01:37] <Keybuk> but sadly that something doesn't exist
[01:37] <micahcowan> Yes, I thought it was a weak argument in the first place. Like running into space issues wasn't already a given, whether or not we had actually done so yet :/
[01:38] <Kamion> nobody observed that, if nothing else, we're *always* anxious for more space to shove localisation into
[01:38] <Keybuk> do we really need 20MB of games on the CD?
[01:38] <Kamion> and that there were known things that were going to arrive later in the cycle and clamour for space
[01:38] <micahcowan> Well, but we'll never actually have /that/ sort of space (on the CD) will we?
[01:38] <micahcowan> Keybuk, IMHO, including a decent amount of quality games is a good PR move.
[01:38] <Kamion> the games are quite a good draw for new users, I've found
[01:38] <micahcowan> (look at me! I'm using the same argument I was just deriding re: mono!)
[01:39] <Keybuk> I agree, but then I also thing a good photo management app is a good draw for new users *and* at the same time a good PR move due to including mono
[01:39] <Kamion> my parents sat for long enough playing the games that it became embedded in their heads that Ubuntu was worth a try, and they've been playing around more since :)
[01:39] <ajmitch> approx what time is beta freeze? end of thurs?
[01:39] <jdub> Keybuk: that should totally be fixed upstream... what a mess.
[01:39] <Kamion> 20MB does seem a bit too much though
[01:39] <Kamion> ajmitch: traditionally, start of distro team meeting
[01:39] <Keybuk> I converted two users to Ubuntu with f-spot alone
[01:39] <micahcowan> Keybuk, well, as Kamion already pointed out, mono wasn't brought in for f-spot (but for Tomboy).
[01:39] <Keybuk> (well, f-spot and gphoto)
[01:39] <jdong> Keybuk: YES we need 20MB of games on the livecd
[01:39] <micahcowan> Keybuk, awesome.
[01:39] <jdong> what the hell else am I supposed to do watching ubiquity? :)
[01:40] <ajmitch> Kamion: thanks
[01:40] <Keybuk> jdong: I always press Alt+F4 during the installer to look at what it's really doing
[01:40] <Keybuk> ...this doesn't work so well with u6y :(
[01:40] <Kamion> sucks to be Keybuk ;)
[01:40] <jdub> Keybuk: ha ha ha
[01:40] <jdong> Keybuk: that's about as entertaining as watching a gentoo install
[01:40] <Kamion> maybe I should rebind alt-f4 to a "Hi Scott!" dialog
[01:41] <Kamion> micahcowan: yes!
[01:41] <Kamion> micahcowan: (Simon's a friend of mine, lives a few streets away ...)
[01:41] <Keybuk> there really is a random bunch of crap on the CD though
[01:42] <Kamion> the games there are much higher quality than many of the GNOME games, IMHO
[01:42] <micahcowan> Kamion, really? That's frikking awesome. Where do you live, anyway? (no, I'm not gonna stalk either you or sgt ;o)
[01:42] <Kamion> although possibly not quite so much UI focus, though it's not dreadful
[01:42] <Kamion> micahcowan: Cambridge, England
[01:42] <micahcowan> Kamion, totally, totally agreed. I'm personally impressed by his proven-solvable mines implementation, and I really enjoy playing netgame).
[01:42] <jdub> Kamion: hrm, perhaps we should do some introductions
[01:43] <Keybuk> Kamion: I'm increasingly wondering whether the time is fast coming where we start shipping localised CDs
[01:43] <Kamion> Keybuk: *shudder*
[01:43] <Keybuk> testing nightmare though
[01:43] <jdub> Keybuk: YAY NO SHIPIT!
[01:43] <Kamion> right, to both
[01:43] <Kamion> though shipit wants to be devolved eventually anyway
[01:44] <infinity> I look forward to the day when CDs go the way of the floppy, and we can just throw DVDs at everyone.
[01:44] <infinity> Of course, I also look forward to getting 10 times the bandwidth, so I can download DVD ISOs and test them...
[01:44] <jdub> Kamion: that's what i mean; without shipit to worry about, things like that become slightly more viable
[01:44] <ajmitch> infinity: of course the software grows to fill the DVD
[01:45] <Keybuk> Vista is only shipped on DVD
[01:45] <Keybuk> so it may not be seen as unreasonable if we start doing the same
[01:45] <Keybuk> I think OS X is only on DVD too
[01:45] <Kamion> jdub: the combinatorial testing thing is still a very valid argument though, IMHO
[01:45] <infinity> Keybuk: Vista is only meant for new hardware, and is not distributed on the internet, so they have two wins over us there.
[01:45] <Keybuk> infinity: I don't think it's unreasonable to say that Ubuntu is only meant for modern hardware
[01:45] <Kamion> and I'm very concerned about giving the official Ubuntu stamp to localised CDs that we haven't QAed
[01:46] <jdub> Kamion: did that layering stuff happen? (filesystems with only language stuff in them vs. filesystem with system files, then building CDs by switching language filesystems)?
[01:46] <Keybuk> we can always have a CD-shipped bling-less derivative for lower hardware
[01:46] <Kamion> jdub: -> infinity - it was nearly there last I checked
[01:46] <jdub> infinity: ^?
[01:46] <Kamion> jdub: though possibly not that specific thing, but the underlying technology
[01:46] <infinity> It's rolling out today, though we've certainly not attacked using it for localisation.
[01:46] <infinity> (Though we'll use it to ship a live dvd with all the langpacks...)
[01:46] <alex-weej> anyone else noticed audio stops playing very often when installing packages, etc., with the new CPU scheduling stuff?
[01:47] <jdub> might reduce the feeling of sickness about combinatorial test fuckage somewhat
[01:47] <Burgwork> Kamion, the gnome-games maintainers have started a process to pull in better games
[01:47] <micahcowan> Hey Kamion, ooc what OS does sgt run (primarily) on his computer?
[01:47] <infinity> jdub: Still need to boot the final ISO for each one, and see if the langpack plays along okay.
[01:47] <jdub> infinity: thus 'feeling of sickness'
[01:48] <Keybuk> infinity: interestingly, using the "recommended spec" guide we established; edgy+1 can recommend a Dual Core 64-bit capable processor, 1GB RAM, High Performance 3D card, 160GB drive and a combo CD-RW/DVD drive
[01:49] <alex-weej> why do you need a CD-RW?
[01:49] <jdub> alex-weej: thanks for enhancing the absurdity
[01:49] <Keybuk> alex-weej: the "recommended spec" guide is "what you can buy from Dell for $500 at the _start_ of the development process for that release"
[01:49] <jdong> Keybuk: yikes! what on earth!
[01:49] <Keybuk> (ie. a cheap PC that's already 6 months out of date)
[01:49] <Kamion> anyone have any idea why a GtkTable might allegedly have the right number of rows/columns, but the children I've added dynamically (as opposed to being in glade) completely fail to display? this is the ubiquity mountpoints table ...
[01:49] <jdong> Keybuk: since when was that necessary to run ubuntu?
[01:49] <alex-weej> :P
[01:50] <Keybuk> jdong: that is recommended since edgy+1
[01:50] <ajmitch> jdong: recommended, not required
[01:50] <Kamion> micahcowan: err, iirc Windows and Debian, although I think he flirted with OS X too for a bit
[01:50] <Keybuk> err, that wollen is been recommendeding sonce to edgy+1
[01:50] <jdong> Keybuk: what warrants that recommendation though?
[01:51] <Keybuk> jdong: you appear to be misunderstanding
[01:52] <Keybuk> when we talked about this a while back, we needed some kind of metric for deciding what kind of things were acceptable to require, and what kind of things weren't
[01:52] <Keybuk> in particular, memory usage; but it also applies to building features around the availability of a 3D graphics card (mmm.. compiz)
[01:53] <jdong> I see
[01:53] <Keybuk> so we came up with the idea that a given release of Ubuntu should not require anything more than a $500 PC bought online from a major retailer 6 months previously to the release
[01:54] <jdong> ok, and recommends is if you put as much shiny stuff onto ubuntu as you physically can...
[01:54] <Kamion> while I see the point, I think we would need to check whether this is in fact at all in touch with our userbase
[01:54] <jdub> i think this is an elaborate scheme for keybuk to get new $500 PCs bought from major retailers every six months
[01:54] <Keybuk> right, this is just recommends, not requires
[01:54] <jdong> Keybuk: what are you looking at for requires?
[01:54] <Keybuk> jdong: we just make that up as we go along <g>
[01:54] <Kamion> "... that a given release of Ubuntu should not require ..."
[01:55] <Kamion> did you mean "should not recommend" then?
[01:55] <Keybuk> I'm probably the only person who actually knows the minimum spec edgy can boot on
[01:55] <Kamion> or something that actually makes sense :)
[01:55] <Keybuk> Kamion: yes, sorry, thinko
[01:55] <Burgwork> Kamion, what does hdwb give us? might it be possible to plan an hwdb-ng for edgy+1 to collect better stats and also help the laptop|server testing programs?
[01:55] <Kamion> Burgwork: hwdb has always been a bit of a mystery to me, I must admit
[01:55] <Keybuk> Burgwork: that would assume that people would not be upgrading their machine at the same time as their operating system
[01:56] <Kamion> I agree that it ought to be involved if possibl
[01:56] <Kamion> e
[01:56] <Keybuk> which I think is an invalid assumption
[01:56] <bddebian> Howdy folks
[01:56] <Kamion> Keybuk: the converse is also an invalid assumption, though
[01:56] <Keybuk> indeed
[01:56] <Kamion> Keybuk: otherwise we wouldn't provide the dist-upgrader
[01:56] <Keybuk> I don't disagree
[01:56] <Burgwork> Kamion, it is a giant group of flat files, afaik
[01:56] <Keybuk> however we do need a metric to make decisions like "enable compiz by default, and treat it as a feature" against
[01:57] <Kamion> Burgwork: the backend, right, but I don't even know what information it stores :)
[01:57] <Burgwork> Keybuk, if we get a new program created and a new db, we can answer those questions better
[01:57] <jdub> apparently hwdb-client is not longer required
[01:57] <Kamion> details of format are a bit irrelevant - that can be recoded
[01:57] <infinity> Debian (and derivatives) pretty much encourages keeping old hardware, since it's easy to upgrade.  The "throw out the machine and get a new one with a new OS" thing is more likely in the Windows world where you pretty much have to reinstall *anyway*.
[01:57] <Keybuk> and I don't think that "does a 6-month old entry-level PC support that" is unreasonable in this regard
[01:58] <alex-weej> infinity: actually it's not true, you can prepare a Windows installation for a hardware gutting, and the next time it boots it does all HW detection and setup again but keeps everything else intact
[01:58] <Keybuk> (fwiw. the required ram for edgy should probably be stated as 256MB)
[01:58] <Burgwork> Kamion, yep. it tests a few basic things, like sound and networking and then sends the cpu type, amount of ram, harddrive size, etc.
[01:58] <infinity> alex-weej: I was referring to upgrading the OS.
[01:58] <tseng> alex-weej: we arent talking about expert users nessecarily, anyway
[01:58] <infinity> alex-weej: Like, if you instend to get vista, and you know you're reinstalling anyway, you'll be more tempted to reinstall to new hardware.
[01:59] <alex-weej> infinity: ah ok i understand
[01:59] <Keybuk> infinity: why is this bad for new releases of ubuntu?
[01:59] <infinity> alex-weej: Whereas, if yo uintend to get edgy, you just dist-upgrade.
[01:59] <Burgwork> Kamion, http://hwdb.ubuntu.com/?xml=8784c7ac0118f31e4c134ed872051615
[02:00] <alex-weej> tbh i'd say 6 month-old entry level is the equivalent of a 24 month-old top-end machine - something to bear in mind
[02:00] <infinity> Keybuk: With upgrading being so easy, when I see update-manager offer to upgrade my OS, I'm not going to say "hey, this is a good time to go buy a new computer", I'm just going to say "new OS?  sure!" and upgrade my existing machine.
[02:00] <Keybuk> alex-weej: yes, that was very deliberate
[02:01] <Keybuk> infinity: so you're saying that we should never add a feature to Ubuntu if it could possibly increase the RAM, CPU or other hardware requirements on the system?
[02:01] <infinity> Keybuk: You know I'm not saying that. :)
[02:01] <Keybuk> it's not an unreasonable position, and if adopted, I have a long list of things we need to remove that have been added since warty ;)
[02:01] <Keybuk> infinity: right... but then what are you saying? :p
[02:01] <infinity> Keybuk: Though, if thta would somehow get rid of OpenOffice, I'll stand behind that position firmly. :)
[02:02] <Keybuk> oddly enough oo2 is in that list, yes
[02:02] <Keybuk> it's drastically larger than oo1
[02:02] <infinity> Keybuk: I'm just prodiving the flipside of the "people buy new machines for new OSs" coin, really.  Which I think is much less likely in our world, since we've removed the one thing that tends to trigger that response (requiring a fresh install on upgrade)
[02:02] <Keybuk> infinity: I'm not disagreeing with you here ;)
[02:03] <alex-weej> OOo still feels like some kind of after-market spoiler kit to me
[02:03] <Keybuk> I happen to think that the minimum required specification should not change since warty
[02:03] <Keybuk> but that's sadly impossible, it seems :-/
[02:03] <alex-weej> one that just looks like an ironing board
[02:03] <Keybuk> though edgy has reduced it slightly compared to breezy
[02:03] <Keybuk> but then there's a difference between "required" and "recommended"
[02:03] <infinity> (I know my parents bought a new machine for each of Win95, Win2K, and WinXP, but I doubt they'd have been so religious about it if they were doing incremental Ubuntu or Debian upgrades)
[02:03] <Keybuk> maybe the dist-upgrader should actually *check* the system, and not display a "upgrade now!" if the system wouldn't meet the requirements?
[02:04] <Keybuk> or perhaps be more useful and suggest hardware upgrades?
[02:04] <infinity> Keybuk: Not presenting an upgrade option would be a bit harsh, but warning that the system kinda sucks would be cool.
[02:04] <infinity> "Your video card is bling-free, and your RAM is pitiful."
[02:04] <jdong> lol, warning that the system kinda sucks
[02:04] <Kamion> "your father was a hamster"
[02:05] <jdong> "Infinity has said that your computer blows"
[02:05] <Keybuk> "Leaping Lion recommends the use of a 4D graphics card; you can purchase one from INTEL"
[02:05] <jdong> "Dist-upgrader cannot continue. apt-get upgrade-your-damn-hardware has failed"
[02:06] <infinity> Keybuk: Making vendor recommendations feels wrong to me.
[02:06] <Keybuk> infinity: it's been proposed for hardware in general "you bought an Nvidia, IDIOT! Go buy INTEL!"
[02:06] <infinity> Keybuk: But "any video card manufactured in this century should do, you dumpster-diving freak", I could live with.
[02:06] <Burgwork> infinity, it is hard, given a lack of standard critera to judge computer bits by
[02:06] <jdub> "NOT. FUCKING. LIKELY."
[02:06] <jdong> jdub: LOL
[02:07] <jdong> maybe a "blunt" localization would be nice
[02:07] <alex-weej> can we just get a big flashing red ACCESS DENIED!
[02:07] <alex-weej> and a robot woman with a british accent
[02:07] <jdong> have Ubuntu swear at you for making typos in sources.list or typing in wrong commands
[02:07] <infinity> Oddly enough, the big red ACCESS DENIED was deemed unfriendly.
[02:07] <alex-weej> how the fuck is it unfriendly
[02:08] <alex-weej> every single person on the planet who has seen any movie with a computer in
[02:08] <alex-weej> knows that when it flashes red and says ACCESS DENIED
[02:08] <alex-weej> you made a boo boo
[02:08] <HrdwrBoB> alex-weej: no, it means you have to hack it
[02:08] <HrdwrBoB> which requires ~30 seconds of random keypresses
[02:08] <jdong> micahcowan: we tend to drift in and out of that zone :)
[02:08] <infinity> Which is vaguely what my password looks like.
[02:08] <alex-weej> haha
[02:55] <jdong> pancakes.....
[04:33] <Keybuk> so it turns out that you *really* don't want usplash to flip back to tty1 now
[04:33] <Keybuk> even in the case of timeout
[04:45] <fdsd> Kamion, thanks, I figured out how to modify the usplash on edgy thanks to you:)
[04:50] <Keybuk> mdz: in fact, it appears that the vt flip is deep inside svgalib
[04:50] <mdz> Keybuk: #@$@#%
[04:51] <bddebian> Hey, watch the language :-)
[04:52] <Keybuk> at least I've learned that the code inside usplash is busted, even after Colin "fixed" it :p
[04:53] <Keybuk> $ grep ioctl *
[04:53] <Keybuk> ^ <g>
[04:54] <imbrandon> moins Keybuk & mdz 
[04:58] <Keybuk> I still can't work out why /dev/console seems to change with svgalib usplash, but not with bogl usplash
[05:06] <Keybuk> heh
[05:06] <Keybuk> doko has DoS'd the i386 buildds
[05:07] <Hobbsee> hah.  oh dear
[05:09] <fdsd> hey guys, How do I make edgy knot3 boot to the shell with no login?>
[05:11] <Keybuk> single user mode?
[05:11] <Keybuk> choose the "(recovery mode)" option from grub?
[05:11] <fdsd> no
[05:12] <fdsd> I have gdm turned off, and I need it to autologin , like how 6.06 does with its livecd
[05:12] <Keybuk> need gdm to autologin?
[05:12] <fdsd> I turn off gdm
[05:12] <Keybuk> then what do you want to autologin?
[05:12] <fdsd> the shell
[05:13] <fdsd> after usplash it says username and password, I want it to go directly into my user
[05:14] <fabbione> morning guys
[05:14] <zul> evening fabbione 
[05:14] <ajmitch> hey fabbione 
[05:14] <fdsd> Keybuk, do you know what I mean?
[05:15] <Keybuk> edit /etc/event.d/tty1 and change the "respawn /sbin/getty..." to "respawn /bin/login -f $USERNAME"
[05:15] <ajmitch> mdz: added some info to the f-spot request
[05:15] <Keybuk> (where $USERNAME is whatever you want to login as)
[05:15] <Keybuk> you'll obviously need to remove the password from that user account too
[05:15] <fdsd> ok
[05:15] <fdsd> Keybuk, cool
[05:16] <Keybuk> mdz: so I got rid of the vt flip ...
[05:16] <Keybuk> ... which made X crash on startup
[05:16] <mdz> Keybuk: ...
[05:16] <mdz> that's a neat trick. how does it crash X?
[05:17] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: by chance, did you happen to upload that to the archives?
[05:17] <Keybuk> mdz: who knows
[05:17] <Keybuk> mdz: you can crash X by just making any process receive ^C for /dev/console :p
[05:17] <zul> neat!
[05:18] <fabbione> you can crash X just running it!
[05:18] <Hobbsee> heh
[05:18] <Keybuk> fabbione: that appears to be what's happening here, yes
[05:19] <Keybuk> it starts, and then seems to decide to go back to bed
[05:19] <fabbione> Keybuk: ehhe
[05:20] <fabbione> what's the bug exactly?
[05:20] <Keybuk> fabbione: trying to stop usplash switching to VT 1 when it terminates
[05:20] <fdsd> Keybuk, how to do I remove the password for the user?
[05:20] <Keybuk> fdsd: passwd -d $USERNAME
[05:21] <Keybuk> fabbione: hmm, it didn't do it that time
[05:21] <Keybuk> weird
[05:21] <fabbione> Keybuk: so... boot -> end of boot -> X starts -> vt1 -> stop usplash -> world goes boom
[05:21] <fabbione> ?
[05:21] <Keybuk> boot -> stop usplash -> vt1 -> X starts
[05:21] <Keybuk> which looks ugly
[05:22] <Keybuk> so I made it just stop usplash -> X starts
[05:22] <fabbione> and that makes world suck..
[05:22] <Keybuk> which just leaves you on a corrupt VT 8, and X isn't running
[05:22] <fabbione> is it possible to simulate that without reboots?
[05:23] <fabbione> ya know.. to get sshd and be able to fire up something useful
[05:23] <Keybuk> dunno yet, still trying to work out what went wrong
[05:23] <fabbione> ok
[05:24] <Keybuk> I'm wondering whether usplash hooks the vt flip code to revert VT 8 to text mode
[05:24] <Keybuk> so without the vt flip, it leaves it graphical
[05:24] <fabbione> if it happens only at boot and it's not reproducible otherwise, it will be hell to debug
[05:24] <Keybuk> typically it's not doing it _now_
[05:25] <fabbione> who can reproduce it constantly?
[05:25] <Keybuk> nobody ;p  it only occurs on my machine, with the hacked version of usplash that doesn't flip vts :p
[05:25] <Hobbsee> infinity: you around?
[05:27] <infinity> Hobbsee: For another hour or so, yes.  'sup?
[05:27] <Hobbsee> infinity: there's a section of kde-guidance sitting in binary NEW - any chance you could shove that thru before i go nuts?
[05:27] <Hobbsee> i'm not sure what it's called, sorry
[05:28] <Keybuk> mdz: oh, even better reason why the vt flip is needed :-/
[05:28] <infinity> Erm, I thought I NEWed that eons ago..
[05:28] <Keybuk> when gdm terminates, it actives the console it was on when it was started
[05:28] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: sorry, go nuts? :)
[05:28] <Hobbsee> infinity: apparently not as of last night?
[05:28] <Keybuk> which means gdm stop would flip to vt 8
[05:28] <infinity> Hobbsee: Yes, actually...
[05:28] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: well, more crazy than i am already
[05:28] <fabbione> Keybuk: we have 2 options in X that might help you
[05:28] <Keybuk> ... though that explains why splash_down doesn't work <g>  gdm starts usplash, then flips to VT 1, killing it
[05:29] <fabbione> Keybuk: -sharevts and -novtswitch
[05:29] <infinity> Hobbsee: kde-guidance | 0.6.7svn20060919-0ubuntu1 |          edgy | source, amd64, i386, ia64, powerpc, sparc
[05:29] <infinity> Hobbsee: It's up-to-date and in the archive on all arches.
[05:29] <Keybuk> fabbione: it consistently doesn't crash for me now ... so I think I'm going to pretend it never happened <g>
[05:29] <Hobbsee> infinity: the source got split into two binaries, i believe.  i'll ask further
[05:29] <fabbione> Keybuk: i am sure it will crash here after you upload :P
[05:29] <fabbione> Keybuk: you know.. that fabbione'fs magic all together with my baby crying thingy
[05:29] <Hobbsee> in fact, the changelog says it has.
[05:30] <infinity> Hobbsee: Perhaps you just need to install 'kde-guidance-powermanager'?
[05:30] <infinity> Hobbsee: (which is also in the archive.. I can't just accept a single binary without accepting the whole upload) :)
[05:30] <Hobbsee> infinity: ahhh....thanks :)
[05:30] <Hobbsee> infinity: much appreciated.
[05:30] <infinity> Hobbsee: If there are broken dependencies there or things need seeding or something, bug Riddell. :)
[05:30] <fabbione> Keybuk: anyway i pasted to you the option you might find useful to debug if the problem shows up again
[05:31] <Keybuk> thanks
[05:31] <fabbione> Keybuk: not all of them are documented afaict
[05:31] <Hobbsee> infinity: or just fix them.  although i wouldnt know about the seeding, i guess
[05:31] <Hobbsee> infinity: thanks again
[05:31] <Keybuk> mdz: ah, taking out the vt switch *does* fix splash_down :p
[05:34] <fdsd> Keybuk, I am getting an error with tty1, init: tty1 process (3484) terminated with status 1
[05:34] <mdz> Keybuk: perhaps usplash should be stopped after X starts? or does that prevent it from cleaning up the terminal properly?
[05:34] <fabbione> infinity, ajmitch: i won't be able to fire up the buildd till monday FYI.  My wife invited guests and i can't keep them awake 2/3 days
[05:34] <ajmitch> fabbione: fine by me
[05:35] <Keybuk> fdsd: check it works
[05:35] <infinity> fabbione: Good 'nuff.  Should be a good, quiet time to do it (beta freeze, yay)
[05:35] <Keybuk> mdz: that prevents console-setup from being run
[05:35] <fabbione> SAN + SUN = more noise than airplane
[05:35] <fdsd> Keybuk, hmm, ok
[05:35] <zul> fabbione: tell me about it
[05:35] <Keybuk> fdsd: ie. the command you put in there
[05:36] <fabbione> zul: yes i do tell you.. the stuff you have there isn't noisy at all compared to Niagara machines
[05:36] <fdsd> Keybuk, could you post it one more time, my irc buffer just lost it
[05:37] <Keybuk> respawn /bin/login -f $USER
[05:37] <Keybuk> (replace $USER with your username)
[05:38] <fdsd> Keybuk, i have exactly that
[05:38] <Keybuk> exactly that?  with the $USER? :p
[05:38] <fdsd> respawn /bin/login -f stimm
[05:38] <mdz> Keybuk: I don't particularly like what console-setup does to the console anyway :-P
[05:39] <mdz> maybe console-setup ought to get run before usplash starts, then the console would be usable in initramfs
[05:39] <Keybuk> or we could fix the kernel bugs that mean console-setup doesn't work when usplash is running :)
[05:40] <infinity> Well, /bin/setupcon is certainly tiny enough to throw in the initramfs, not sure how large the supporting data (fonts and keymaps and crap) is.
[05:40] <fdsd> Keybuk, do you know why the console font looks so strange in knot3?
[05:40] <fdsd> when it first boots
[05:40] <infinity> fdsd: dpkg-reconfigure console-setup and pick "VGA", if you like the old-skool font.
[05:40] <fdsd> infinity, cool
[05:41] <Keybuk> infinity: X11 
[05:41] <Keybuk> AND WE'RE NOT PUTTING THAT IN THE INITRAMFS, OK? :p
[05:41] <infinity> Aww. :)
[05:41] <fabbione> Keybuk: why not? i did it.. it's relatively small
[05:42] <fabbione> Keybuk: and it boots REALLY fast
[05:42] <Keybuk> fabbione: you'll bitch when you discover silo can't load the initramfs because it's too large
[05:42] <Keybuk> and none of your sparcs boot anymore
[05:42] <fabbione> Keybuk: oh we fixed that alraedy :)
[05:42] <fabbione> we can load arbitrary initramfs size now
[05:42] <infinity> (When it boots at all...)
[05:43] <HrdwrBoB> just load the whole system into the initramfs
[05:43] <fabbione> infinity: that too... 
[05:43] <infinity> With the right compiler and the right silo source snapshot, compiled on the third tuesday of the month, and booting on a blue moon, it all goes well.
[05:43] <fabbione> infinity: ehhehehe
[05:44] <infinity> I'd be laughing too, if it weren't true.
[05:44] <fabbione> it's not THAT true anymore
[05:44] <infinity> At my last job, I had 3 different silo builds, with different compilers and different patches to silo, just to boot the variety of sparcs in the place.
[05:45] <fabbione> now i can reproduce silo not booting with both gcc 4.0 and 4.1 without mangling the code :)
[05:45] <infinity> Well, I guess that's an improvement?
[05:45] <fabbione> oh yeah
[05:45] <fabbione> it's more consistent
[05:45] <infinity> Okay, now I'm laughing. :)
[05:45] <fabbione> (in not booting)
[05:46] <fabbione> infinity: see /msg
[05:46] <Keybuk> mdz: btw, we're SO NOT fading out the mixer sound in ALSA :p
[05:46] <Keybuk> because that's a VERY HARD PROBLEM
[05:46] <fdsd> does any one know if knot3 has the issue with kernel panicing randomly on macbooks at startup?
[05:46] <Keybuk> -> "amixer controls" ... pick one
[05:47] <infinity> Why fade the mixer when we can just fade the shutdown sound instead?
[05:47] <fabbione> Keybuk: i think you can rely on the "Master" control being always there, but you also need to make sure you can restore the setting at the next reboot or people will be pissed to death
[05:48] <Keybuk> heh
[05:49] <Keybuk> for time in 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9; do
[05:49] <Keybuk>   amixer sset Master 10-
[05:49] <Keybuk>   sleep 0.1
[05:49] <Keybuk> done
[05:49] <Keybuk> ? :p
[05:49] <StevenK> Keybuk: $(seq 0 9)
[05:49] <fabbione> Keybuk: basically.. but you need to get the output first of the previous value
[05:49] <Keybuk> fabbione: why?
[05:49] <fabbione> to restore it
[05:50] <fabbione> alsa setting are saved almost realtime
[05:50] <fabbione> so you want:
[05:50] <fabbione> orig=$read Master
[05:50] <Keybuk> eh?
[05:50] <fabbione> fadegap=$orig / 10
[05:50] <Keybuk> they're saved on shutdown
[05:50] <fabbione> yeah and you are shutting down
[05:50] <HrdwrBoB> and hope you don't get raced to being killed
[05:50] <HrdwrBoB> in which case it won't save right
[05:50] <fabbione> for time in 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9; do
[05:51] <Keybuk> fabbione: so do that after you've saved the volume?
[05:51] <fabbione>  amixer sset Master $fadegap -
[05:51] <fabbione> sleep 0.1
[05:51] <fabbione> done
[05:51] <fabbione> Keybuk: if that gives enough time to fade.. yeah
[05:51] <fabbione> you still want a fadegap proportional to the original volume
[05:52] <fabbione> otherwise the sound might fade too fast
[05:52] <fdsd> Keybuk, this is the file that results in the error, does it look correct to you? http://keanmarine.com/tty1
[05:52] <Keybuk> isn't that exactly what I just typed?
[05:52] <Keybuk> fdsd: yes.  what happens if you run "/bin/login -f dcstimm" as root?
[05:52] <fdsd> Keybuk, let me check
[05:52] <fabbione> Keybuk: amixer sset Master 10- <- takes 10 away?
[05:52] <Keybuk> fabbione: yes
[05:53] <fabbione> KaiL: that assume you are at 100% of the volume
[05:53] <fabbione> Keybuk: ^^
[05:53] <fabbione> 10 iterations from 100 to 0
[05:53] <mdz> fabbione: it would just fade instead of muting where it currently does
[05:53] <mdz> which is after saving
[05:53] <Keybuk> fabbione: it doesn't matter
[05:53] <fdsd> Keybuk, no problems when I run that from root
[05:53] <fabbione> Keybuk: with fadegap if the volume is 80 you get steps of 8 down
[05:53] <Keybuk> fabbione: that would involve figuring out the volume first
[05:54] <fdsd> Keybuk, logs directly into the user
[05:54] <fabbione> Keybuk: yeah.. exactly as i wrote :P
[05:54] <Keybuk> fabbione: where did you get $read from though? :p
 orig=$read Master <-
[05:54] <Keybuk> you missed the ALL IMPORTANT STEP
[05:54] <fabbione> pseudo codfe
[05:54] <Keybuk> it appears that Master is a non-trivial value
[05:54] <Keybuk> because it can have as many different current values as you have speakers
[05:55] <jdub> untz untz untz
[05:55] <Keybuk> oh, hmm, maybe it's only Mono?
[05:56] <fabbione> i think Master is "mono" 
[05:56] <fabbione> numid=2,iface=MIXER,name='Master Playback Volume'
[05:56] <Keybuk> $orig / 10 won't mute it
[05:56] <Keybuk> if $orig is 79, $fadegap will be 7
[05:57] <fabbione> Keybuk: you can calculate it properly.. that was just the idea
[05:58] <fabbione> amixer cget numid=2
[05:58] <fabbione> numid=2,iface=MIXER,name='Master Playback Volume'
[05:58] <fabbione>   ; type=INTEGER,access=rw---,values=2,min=0,max=31,step=0
[05:58] <fabbione>   : values=29,29
[05:58] <fdsd> Keybuk, any other ideas?
[05:58] <fdsd> Keybuk, sorry to keep bugging you
[05:58] <Keybuk> fdsd: what does "status tty1" say?
[05:58] <fdsd> let me check
[05:58] <Keybuk> oh
[05:59] <Keybuk> obvious duh
[05:59] <fabbione> brb
[05:59] <fdsd> Keybuk, tty1 (stop) waiting
[06:00] <Keybuk> add " </dev/tty1 >/dev/tty1 2>&1" (without the quotes) on the end of the respawn line
[06:00] <fdsd> ok
[06:01] <fdsd> let me try it
[06:01] <Keybuk> just "start tty1"
[06:02] <fdsd> Keybuk, that works
[06:03] <fdsd> Keybuk, thanks so much
[06:04] <Keybuk> mdz: giving up on the fade out idea
[06:04] <Keybuk> it sounds exactly the same unless you fade really slowly
[06:04] <Keybuk> the shortest "ok-sounding" fade was 2s
[06:04] <mdz> Keybuk: what do you think is the best solution?
[06:04] <mdz> perhaps having a very short shutdown sound is best
[06:05] <Keybuk> yeah, I'm inclined to say that the shutdown sound is just too long
[06:05] <mdz> something <= sum(sleeps during shutdown process)
[06:05] <mdz> so that we have some lower limit where we can be sure it isn't truncated
[06:05] <Keybuk> yes
[06:05] <Keybuk> if you want to do something really sick :p
[06:05] <AlinuxOS> Keybuk, yes I agree that shutdonw sound is little bit long.
[06:05] <Keybuk> make the sound player ignore SIGTERM
[06:05] <Keybuk> you can then have the 5s between SIGTERM and SIGKILL <g>
[06:09] <mdz> the XP one is pretty short
[06:15] <Keybuk> heh, figured out the occasional double-flicker in splash down now too
[06:15] <Keybuk> TIMEOUT 0 doesn't do what somebody thought it did :p
[06:18] <Keybuk> or maybe, looking at blame, timeout 0 no longer does what it used to do
[06:18] <Keybuk> heh
[06:19] <Keybuk> the changelog for that change gives "Sending TERM signal seems to take forever" as the rationale
[06:19] <Keybuk> I think that predates us realising that the reason it took forever was that usplash just got killed
[06:21] <infinity> Keybuk: No, that wasa different "sending TERM signal"
[06:21] <infinity> Keybuk: There were two in the old shutdown world order.
[06:21] <infinity> Keybuk: One right after GDM starts the shutdown (that was what "took forever"), and then the "sending TERM to all processes" later, which killed usplash.
[06:22] <infinity> Keybuk: I suspect that in the new world order, the first one no longer exists, so the hack is pointless.
[06:22] <Keybuk> what was the first one?
[06:23] <infinity> Heck if I can recall.  Go reboot a breezy machine. :)
[06:23] <infinity> Or, dapper rather.
[06:24] <Keybuk> dapper doesn't have it
[06:24] <Keybuk> unless it's from !init
[06:24] <infinity> Could have been.
[06:25] <infinity> Anyhow, I'm off.
[06:27] <Keybuk> interestingly, our principal "dead periods" in boot now are udev and setupcon
[06:27] <Keybuk> the setupcon is quite obvious; it wastes almost 5s
[06:28] <Keybuk> udev in total wastes about another 10s
[06:28] <Keybuk> get rid of those "sleeps" and we get a 30s boot
[06:28] <desrt> as in, almost entirely idle time?
[06:28] <desrt> what is it doing?
[06:28] <Keybuk> which?
[06:28] <desrt> udev, setupcon
[06:29] <Keybuk> setupcon is setting up the console fonts and stuff, but it has to be blocked and do it in the foreground, going around changing vts -- instead of just adjusting kernel crap
[06:29] <Keybuk> because the kernel sucks
[06:29] <Keybuk> udev is just sleeping because ... well ... it needs a nap
[06:29] <desrt> so uhm
[06:29] <desrt> nobody uses the console
[06:29] <Keybuk> (actually it's because we have things following it that assume that devices are now ready to be mounted, etc.)
[06:30] <desrt> setting console font seems a bit odd
[06:30] <desrt> plus, it screws up the splash screen
[06:30] <desrt> the splash has to be down while you do that
[06:30] <Keybuk> it shouldn't have to be down at all
[06:30] <desrt> the console setup is at 90 now
[06:31] <desrt> it used to be at 40something
[06:31] <desrt> when it was at 40something, when it ran, it would muck up the top few (30 or so) lines of pixels on the splashscreen
[06:33] <Keybuk> it mucks up the entire thing now
[06:33] <desrt> lovely :)
[06:40] <Keybuk> mdz: ok, splash down is mostly pleasant now
[06:40] <Keybuk> svgalib seems to go out of its way to reset a VT to text mode if it's already in graphics mode when it starts
[06:40] <Keybuk> so there's an annoyingly black screen and flicker, where before it just drew over the top
[06:41] <Keybuk> but I don't think that's avoidable
[06:41] <desrt> hack svgalib
[06:41] <desrt> ...and X...
[06:42] <Keybuk> desrt: I can assure you, that's rather far down the list of the things I want to do with my life ... just under placing my testicles in a blender to see what it feels like
[06:42] <desrt> :)
[06:42] <desrt> i'd hack svgalib somewhat before trying the blender thing
[06:42] <mdz> Keybuk: sounds reasonable, I'll have a look once it lands
[06:43] <Keybuk> about the only annoying thing now is that if you do "/etc/init.d/gdm stop" on a console, it switches to vt8 for you
[06:43] <Keybuk> which has nothing on it
[06:44] <desrt> that's a really quick X hack to fix
[06:45] <Keybuk> desrt: what vt would you have it switch to instead?
[06:45] <desrt> Keybuk; none
[06:46] <desrt> when X terminates it switches to the VT that was running when it started
[06:46] <desrt> it does this even if its not active at the time
[06:46] <desrt> just conditionalise the VT switch to only happen if the X server was active
[06:47] <Keybuk> yes, that should definitely be fixed
[06:47] <Keybuk> it should only switch VTs if it's on its own
[06:47] <desrt> i'll take care of it
[06:53] <Keybuk> sweet
[06:53] <Keybuk> now I know why usplash crashes X
[06:54] <Keybuk> it's the same bug I had with upstart crashing X :)
[06:54] <Keybuk> it does open("/dev/console", O_RDWR) after calling setsid()
[06:54] <Keybuk> which means /dev/console becomes the controlling terminal
[06:54] <Keybuk> and for some reason, X takes an exception to that and crashes
[06:55] <Keybuk> (how X even knows, I have no idea)
[06:58] <fabbione> Keybuk: i think it's not impossible to check X code in that respect...
[06:59] <Keybuk> fabbione: I wouldn't even know what to look for
[06:59] <Keybuk> as far as I know, as many processes as they like can have the same controlling terminal
[06:59] <fabbione> grep open * -r | grep console? :P
[06:59] <Keybuk> and they aren't notified if another process also takes it
[07:00] <fabbione> anyway.. gotta get ready for hw maintainance
[07:00] <fabbione> and a few security reboots/updates
[07:19] <desrt> Keybuk; can you upload X?
[07:19] <Keybuk> desrt: define "can" ?
[07:19] <desrt> would anyone be angry at you?
[07:20] <desrt> i have a fix for the VT-switching problem
[07:20] <Keybuk> I doubt they would be angry
[07:26] <desrt> ok
[07:26] <desrt> just making sure it builds :)
[07:27] <keescook> in launchpad, when linking to an upstream bugtracker, there is an "Inkscape bug tracker".  Shouldn't this really be "SourceForge bug tracker"?
[07:29] <Burgundavia> keescook: file a bug against malone
[07:29] <desrt> man.  autotoolsed X
[07:30] <Keybuk> oh, now that's interesting
[07:30] <desrt> my amusement is deep.
[07:30] <Burgundavia> desrt: you did?
[07:30] <desrt> Burgundavia; no.  "they" did.
[07:30] <Keybuk> daniels did, specifically
[07:30] <Keybuk> stub: hey, how goes the revolution?
[07:30] <desrt> it was one of the things that happened xfree86 -> xorg
[07:30] <desrt> the more you learn about X the harder it is to hate it
[07:31] <stub> Keybuk: business as usual today - people took all their photos posing infront of the soliders and tanks yesterday. no curfew. everything back open except the laos and burma borders I think.
[07:32] <desrt> oh.  .th.  cool :)
[07:32] <stub> They still knock BBC and CNN off air whenever they put on a story about the coup though
[07:32] <desrt> news here has been largely ... neutral
[07:32] <desrt> they're like "it happened.  wednesday is a holiday.  next story."
[07:32] <Burgundavia> desrt: I wonder if apple would have decided differently about X had they had to make the decision they did now
[07:33] <Fujitsu> It's just been briefly mentioned in news here.
[07:33] <desrt> Burgundavia; i think they'd do the same thing
[07:33] <Fujitsu> Burgundavia, ?
[07:33] <desrt> stub; any news on when martial law is lifted?
[07:33] <Burgundavia> desrt: likely
[07:34] <desrt> Burgundavia; if macos looks too much like linux then people can run linux instead
[07:34] <Burgundavia> desrt: no, talking about archecture, not looks
[07:34] <stub> desrt: Probably two weeks when the interim government is appointed
[07:35] <desrt> stub; why did it happen?  news here has been short on details
[07:37] <stub> desrt: The incumbent government is hated by the population of Bangkok, but has won the last few elections by 'landslide' having bought votes in the rural areas (literally). The last election was boycotted, leaving the country with no real government, although a good outcome was the corrupt electoral commission was sacked or jailed. 
[07:37] <desrt> so a pretty legit/well-needed coup, then
[07:37] <desrt> congrats :)
[07:38] <stub> desrt: It appeared though that when the next election was finally called, not enough would have changed so the existing government would probably stay in office. This would have solved no problems, so the army stepped in (with strong rumor having support from the King, who is the real power)
[07:38] <stub> Esp. as the existing government was looking at replacing the military leaders in charge of Bangkok with cronies, so any protests during the next election would have been crushed.
[07:42] <Kagou> hi
[07:43] <Keybuk> fabbione: actually, this X crash is entirely reasonable
[07:44] <Keybuk> usplash is stealing tty7 from X
[07:44] <Keybuk> after which point, X would no longer receive signals about it, and is no longer the controlling process on that terminal, etc.
[07:46] <desrt> keybuk; http://desrt.mcmaster.ca/random/xorg-server_1.1.1-0ubuntu11.debdiff
[07:46] <desrt> Keybuk; upload, k plz thx :)
[07:47] <desrt> well... you probably want to test it first
[07:48] <Keybuk> did you test what happens if you shutdown X while X is active?
[07:48] <desrt> yes
[07:48] <desrt> then it works
[07:49] <desrt> that's the testing that led me to conclude that checking vtSema _doesn't_ work
[07:49] <Burgundavia> mjg59: are you up yet?
[07:49] <desrt> when X comes down it briefly returns to text mode on the console it runs on before switching back to the other console
[07:50] <desrt> my code runs at that point
[07:51] <fdsd> You blokes may know this, I just want a very bare min install of ubuntu, I want it to boot with usplash right to the console (I am making a very basic livecd)  It doesnt need anything except fdisk, bash, mount.. etc.. is there a easy way to remove all those unneeded packages?
[07:52] <Keybuk> fdsd: it'd be easier to just install it fresh with only the minimal set
[07:52] <fdsd> Keybuk, okay, how do I go about doing that? is it an install option?
[07:52] <Keybuk> fdsd: it's an option on the alternate install CD
[07:52] <fdsd> Keybuk, oh I see
[07:52] <Keybuk> though if you're making a Live CD, you'd probably stage the install on your filesystem anyway
[07:52] <Keybuk> so can just use debootstrap
[07:53] <Keybuk> mkdir /tmp/fs-image; debootstrap edgy /tmp/fs-image
[07:53] <fdsd> Keybuk, is there a way to get a list of packages that are in the minimal set?
[07:53] <Keybuk> gives you a minimal edgy install (literally only the essential pieces and no config) under /tmp/fs-image
[07:53] <fdsd> Keybuk, oh interesting
[07:54] <Keybuk> http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/germinate-output/edgy/minimal
[07:54] <fdsd> Keybuk, the amount of time iv put into this you could have done in two seconds
[07:54] <Mithrandir> fdsd: you're aware that we provide a base image you can just use?
[07:55] <fdsd> Mithrandir, does is have usplash?
[07:55] <Mithrandir> fdsd: nope
[07:55] <fdsd> Keybuk, is there a list for powerpc edgy?
[07:55] <Keybuk> of course, you can just "apt-get install usplash" into the base image ;)
[07:56] <Keybuk> fdsd: it's the same
[07:56] <fdsd> cool
[07:56] <fdsd> Keybuk, true
[07:56] <fdsd> Mithrandir, where is that image I can try?
[07:56] <Mithrandir> fdsd: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/livecd-base/current/
[07:57] <Mithrandir> note that they require you to supply an initramfs yourself; they're just the base squashfs images
[07:57] <fdsd> Mithrandir, thats no problem
[07:57] <fdsd> Mithrandir, what kernel and such do they have? is it the latest?
[07:59] <Mithrandir> fdsd: look at the manifest; they're built daily so they should have the latest, yes.
[07:59] <fdsd> cool
[07:59] <fdsd> Mithrandir, thanks a bunch
[08:00] <fdsd> Mithrandir, if I drop this into the knot 3 livecd and remake the iso will it boot okay?
[08:00] <Burgundavia> gnomefreak: ping
[08:01] <pitti> Good morning
[08:02] <Fujitsu> Morning, pitti.
[08:02] <pitti> hi Fujitsu 
[08:02] <ajmitch> hi pitti 
[08:03] <Mithrandir> fdsd: yes, it should
[08:04] <fdsd> Mithrandir, awesome, saved me alot of time
[08:05] <Burgundavia> sladen: ping
[08:05] <Mithrandir> fdsd: note that if you just use the initramfs from knot3 the initramfs will have usplash, you might want to not have "splash" on the kernel command line
[08:05] <Mithrandir> (if you don't want usplash)
[08:05] <fdsd> Mithrandir, I do want usplash
[08:06] <fdsd> Mithrandir, I made a dialog based shell script that launches at boot, so basicly it boots, shows usplash logo, then goes straight to the dialog shell script
[08:08] <keescook> pitti: is your net connection okay again?  :)  that bug I was talking about is 6293
[08:09] <pitti> keescook: no, network still out, I'm currently dealing with it
[08:09] <pitti> keescook: it is very important that our POT files are built in debian/rules
[08:09] <pitti> keescook: Rosetta relies on them always being up to date
[08:10] <pitti> keescook: so e. g. if we apply a patch that changes a string, this must be immediately reflected in the pot
[08:10] <keescook> Makes sense.  What would be the "correct" fix for 6293, then, from ubuntu's perspective?  Regen from the makefile?
[08:12] <keescook> pitti: I'm out for the evening.  good luck with the connectivity issues!
[08:12] <pitti> keescook: wrt the bug
[08:13] <pitti> keescook: it is very confusing
[08:13] <pitti> keescook: now, does it contain two POT files or none at all?
[08:22] <desrt> wow.  builds are getting backed up
[08:22] <desrt> some idiot kicked off oo.o builds :p
[08:23] <Fujitsu> Oh dear.
[08:23] <Keybuk> yeah, doko DoS'd the buildds
[08:24] <ajmitch> I think there need to be buildds set aside just for him
[08:24] <desrt> the build queue just needs to implement a LCFS policy
[08:24] <Fujitsu> OOo is very effective at DoSing.
[08:25] <desrt> it's more fair when the workload consists of many small jobs and a few large jobs
[08:32] <zakame> keescook: ping, good to see you here :)
[08:59] (desrt/#ubuntu-devel) better in edgy?
[08:59] (pitti/#ubuntu-devel) desrt: it also still has many holes left, too
[08:59] (desrt/#ubuntu-devel) well
[08:59] (desrt/#ubuntu-devel) edgy has canaries anyway
[08:59] <pitti> they don't help you on the heap
[08:59] <desrt> neither does libc address randomisation
[09:00] <desrt> unless you can manage to overflow the heap in such a way that you can redirect a callback pointer
[09:00] <desrt> and also in such a way as to ensure that that callback pointer gets called with the values you like
[09:02] <desrt> i bet vcalls in c++ make that really easy
[09:02] <desrt> if you can overwrite an object instance then you can change its class pointer to point to some evil vtable that contains system() as one of the methods
[09:03] <desrt> then when that method gets called you automatically have the object (which you just overwrote) passed as the implicit instance pointer
[09:03] <desrt> but system() doesn't expect an object instance... so it just treats the pointer as the first argument
[09:03] <desrt> you have 4 bytes of junk at the start of the object instance for your class pointer... just put a ";" after it and then fill in the command you want executed
[09:04] <desrt> another ; and fill in your vtable
[09:04] <desrt> of course, you could do the same thing with gobjects, too
[09:04] <desrt> you'd need deterministic heap addresses, though
[09:04] <desrt> so i guess address randomisation still has a place
[09:05] <pitti> desrt: I'm not that much of an expert in that, but I read that once you plug a few more holes, it's pretty good
[09:05] <desrt> pitti; well... you could always just ask the programmers very nicely to write code without bugs :)
[09:06] <pitti> programmers: pretty please write good code
[09:06] <Keybuk> desrt: works fine for me in all situations, and solves the bug
[09:06] <desrt> Keybuk; awesome.
[09:06] <pitti> 'k, topic solved then? :)
[09:06] <pitti> hey Keybuk 
[09:06] <desrt> my plan for the course is i'm gonna run some process on a server
[09:07] <Keybuk> pitti: heh, referring to desrt's fix to stop X flipping to some random VT when you kill it
[09:07] <desrt> that'll be like main() { buffer[20] ; gets(buffer); return 0; }
[09:07] <desrt> i give them the source to the server and the compiled binary
[09:07] <desrt> and their assignment is to create a file on the server that contains their name and student number :p
[09:07] <pitti> nice ;)
[09:08] <desrt> it's an assembly course
[09:08] <desrt> we cover topics
[09:08] <desrt>  - assembly basics
[09:08] <desrt>  - calling to/from C.  stack layout
[09:08] <desrt>  - debugging
[09:08] <desrt>  - hax0ring
[09:08] <desrt> or so is the plan :)
[09:09] <desrt> (new course next term)
[09:09] <desrt> in any case i'm off to bed.  ciao :)
[09:11] <pitti> desrt: sleep well
[09:14] <dholbach> good morning
[09:17] <Keybuk> Happy Beta Freeze Day!
[09:17] <Hobbsee> argh, surely not
[09:17] <Hobbsee> i *knew* there was something else i was going to fix in main today
[09:17] <Seveas> mornin'
[09:17] <Hobbsee> hey Seveas 
[09:18] <Seveas> hey Hobbsee 
[09:18] <Hobbsee> two things, in fact.
[09:18] <Fujitsu> :)
[09:19] <Seveas> People were disappointed though that Mark didn't show up ;)
[09:19] <Keybuk> did he know that he was supposed to show up?
[09:20] <Seveas> I'd assume so, if I understood it correctly there was some miscommunication about canceling
[09:20] <Seveas> after Jeff canceled 
[09:25] <Kagou> Kamion: just for informations, today desktop daily iso is like yesterday, not very uptodate.
[09:25] <Keybuk> Kagou: compared to?
[09:25] <Hobbsee> Seveas: you could have tried pretending to be mark :P
[09:26] <Kagou> Keybuk: desktop daily iso do not contain old packages (3/4 days old) 
[09:27] <Kagou> Keybuk: specially i'm looking at fontconfig
[09:28] <Seveas> Hobbsee, that wouldn't have worked ;)
[09:28] <Treenaks> Seveas: it's the accent, isn't it? :P
[09:28] <Hobbsee> Seveas: i know, but it could have been awful fun to try
[09:28] <Hobbsee> heh.  my machine is hitting 83C again
[09:29] <Keybuk> Kagou: hmm, are you just checking the manifest file, or the actual iso?
[09:29] <Kagou> Keybuk: actual iso (burnt and booted on)
[09:29] <Keybuk> ah, openoffice is uninstallable
[09:30] <Kamion> Keybuk: reading scrollback - setupcon does not actually change VTs any more, you know
[09:30] <Keybuk> Kamion: no, but it appears to take a long time ;-/
[09:31] <Kamion> Keybuk: anyway, I just made setupcon not do font setup if usplash is running, which should fix the video corruption
[09:31] <Keybuk> yeah I saw
[09:32] <Keybuk> it would still be "nice" if setupcon could just work even if usplash or X were running
[09:32] <Keybuk> but there be kernel bugs, arr
[09:34] <Kamion> Kagou: it's ok, you don't need to tell us about this
[09:34] <Kamion> Kagou: the livefs failed to build - http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/livefs-build-logs/edgy/ubuntu/latest/livecd-20060921-i386.out
[09:35] <Kamion> Keybuk: any idea which bit of setupcon is taking ages? it's presumably some child process
[09:36] <Keybuk> ckbcomp/setupcon/loadkeys
[09:36] <Kamion> oh right
[09:36] <Keybuk> hmm
[09:36] <Kamion> it'll be ckbcomp then
[09:36] <Keybuk> I wonder whether it's taking longer for me because I'm still running it under strace :p
[09:36] <Kamion> well, it's doing a chunk of work
[09:36] <Keybuk> *nods*
[09:36] <Kamion> there's an argument that if you didn't say --save and there's a boottime keymap saved, it should just use that
[09:37] <Keybuk> the fact it gets run twice is probably not helping either
[09:37] <Kamion> or maybe if the boottime keymap's timestamp is at least as new as /etc/default/console-setup
[09:37] <Kamion> that would probably be a good enough check
[09:37] <Kamion> the first run won't work if you have a separate /usr ;)
[09:39] <Keybuk> heh
[09:39] <Keybuk> we should so just outlaw that ;)
[09:39] <cbx33> is there any possibliilty that ubiquity can have a slight change made to it ?
[09:39] <Kamion> cbx33: depends on the change :)
[09:39] <cbx33> scanning for a mirror
[09:40] <cbx33> I'm behind a proxy...
[09:40] <cbx33> installing fro ma live cd
[09:40] <Kamion> known bug that I need to investigate
[09:40] <Kamion> but it's probably not "a slight change"
[09:40] <cbx33> will it eventually get there?
[09:40] <cbx33> sorry Kamion just asking
[09:40] <cbx33> oh yep...it's moved onto the security mirror now
[09:40] <Kamion> should do, you can find the http child processes and strace them to see if it's doing anything
[09:41] <cbx33> well i know what it's doing.....sitting waiting for a responce
[09:41] <cbx33> which it's not going oto get
[09:41] <cbx33> also do we know of issues with NVIDIA 7300 series on PCI-E
[09:41] <cbx33> my brand new PC for ubuntu development is sick...
[09:41] <cbx33> it thinks it's an ATI card :S
[09:42] <Keybuk> rofl
[09:43] <cbx33> that sux...
[09:43] <cbx33> heheh
[09:43] <cbx33> I hate ATI
[09:43] <Keybuk> paste the relevant line from lspci -n
[09:43] <cbx33> I will when I get home
[09:43] <cbx33> it was a fresh install of dapper
[09:43] <Fujitsu> Silly silly NVIDIA.
[09:43] <Keybuk> nvidia should be 10de:????
[09:43] <Mithrandir> hmm, shouldn't gnome-games really just be a recommends of ubuntu-desktop?
[09:44] <Burgundavia> Mithrandir: probably
[09:44] <cbx33> just got it yesterday
[09:44] <Fujitsu> No no, it's a critical part. You can't have a desktop without games! It must /never/ be allowed to be removed by users.
[09:44] <Kamion> Mithrandir: that seems like a fair argument
[09:45] <HiddenWolf> Mithrandir: yeah, it should
[09:45] <Kamion> I can't decide whether I like the way that https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-6.10-beta lists fix-released bugs
[09:45] <Kamion> I guess it gives an impression of progress
[09:46] <Keybuk> Kamion: makes it more like an mdz poster/blame board
[09:46] <Kamion> right :)
[09:46] <cbx33> is mdz around
[09:46] <Kamion> I doubt it
[09:46] <Keybuk> cbx33: almost certainly in bed
[09:46] <Keybuk> or a pumpkin
[09:46] <cbx33> maybe someone else can help ;)
[09:47] <cbx33> I have to make a change to my student-control-panel pacakge
[09:47] <cbx33> but beta freeze has p[assed hasn't it
[09:47] <Kamion> what's the change?
[09:47] <cbx33> I only found out about the change yesterday
[09:47] <cbx33> but my pc had blown up, so I'd ordered my new bits
[09:47] <cbx33> but didn't get it together intime
[09:48] <cbx33> I need to make it only run if an environment variable is set
[09:48] <Kamion> detail?
[09:48] <cbx33> well, if the LTSP_CLIENT enviroment variable is set, it should run, if not it shouldn't
[09:49] <Kamion> that sounds pretty safe; what's the reasoning?
[09:49] <cbx33> well
[09:49] <Kamion> (I don't know LTSP)
[09:49] <cbx33> people running as a user on the LTSP server, shouldn;lt show up in the LTSP users list ;)
[09:49] <Hobbsee> doko: you around?
[09:50] <Kamion> that's fair enough - I suppose you should make sure that it exits 0 if LTSP_CLIENT isn't set
[09:50] <Fujitsu> Can I presume that SCP will be modifiable for use on non-Edubuntu LTSP servers?
[09:50] <cbx33> Kamion: that was the plan
[09:50] <cbx33> Fujitsu: yes
[09:50] <lastnode> imbrandon, you around mate?
[09:50] <Fujitsu> Great, cbx33 :)
[09:50] <Kamion> cbx33: go ahead then
[09:51] <cbx33> Kamion: ok, I'll try and get that done today
[09:51] <Kamion> cbx33: if you get it done before the development team meeting, probably nobody will notice anyway :)
[09:51] <cbx33> Kamion: there is also a change to the usplash artwork I need to make
[09:51] <cbx33> Kamion: how long is that away?
[09:51] <Kamion> seven hours
[09:52] <cbx33> Kamion: hopefully should be doable
[09:52] <Kamion> what's the usplash artwork change?
[09:52] <cbx33> I'm at work now, but I'm hoping to sneak some ubuntu time in
[09:52] <cbx33> the images are resulting in a 2Mb .so file ;)
[09:52] <cbx33> which is a little large
[09:52] <Kamion> same for Ubuntu apparently
[09:53] <cbx33> really?
[09:53] <cbx33> must be the new 256 colours
[09:53] <Hobbsee> lastnode: he went to get some sleep
[09:53] <cbx33> ogra is concerned that 2Mb over the LTSP will slow down
[09:53] <Kamion> I don't think that's beta-critical, but if you can get it reduced without losing quality, I'm all for it
[09:53] <Kamion> fair enough
[09:53] <cbx33> Kamion: does that mean I could do it after
[09:53] <cbx33> cos that one will take some testing and time
[09:54] <Kamion> yes, we'll open up slightly again (back to FF levels) after the beta release
[09:54] <lastnode> alright Hobbsee, i was just trying to see if i could catch him to talk about upstream, and to get some advice on where to head now. (we have a working POST backend and a semi-working GUI, as well as three devs). even if you're free sometime, id love to have a design related chat. 
[09:54] <cbx33> Kamion: right ok, that gives me a little time on that one....as I said I only found out yesterday, 
[09:55] <Hobbsee> lastnode: right....i know nothing at all about this :P
[09:55] <lastnode> Hobbsee, it's a python script. anyway, ill wait for him to wake up. much thanks.
[09:55] <Hobbsee> ah
[09:55] <cbx33> Thanks for the info Kamion 
[09:57] <Burgundavia> lastnode: what sort of project are you working on?
[09:58] <lastnode> Burgundavia, http://sourceforge.net/projects/upstream <-- a log transfer system.
[09:59] <Burgundavia> lastnode: ah, interesting
[09:59] <Kamion> wow, most confusing project name ever :)
[09:59] <Kamion> "who's the upstream for upstream again?"
[09:59] <Kamion> "huh?"
[09:59] <lastnode> Kamion, i thought about that, i did ;-)
[10:00] <Keybuk> Kamion: the author is a Mr Upstream
[10:00] <lastnode> it just was too good to pass up - logs, etc, and keeping with the usual corniness of naming *nix projects, i thought id give it a go
[10:00] <Hobbsee> Kamion: hehe, that's what i thought
[10:01] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee, same here.
[10:01] <Hobbsee> stop saying that i'm working with an unsigned key!
[10:02] <Fujitsu> Keybuk, what's wrong with convertall's debian/copyright?
[10:03] <Fujitsu> Oh...
[10:03] <Fujitsu> Woops.
[10:03] <Fujitsu> Something went /really/ wrong there.
[10:03] <Keybuk> :P
[10:03] <Hobbsee> what, it doesnt exist?
[10:04] <Fujitsu> No, it's all screwed...
[10:04] <Fujitsu> Hey, I haven't even got the latest version here...
[10:04] <Fujitsu> I forget where I last did it, it was two weeks ago...
[10:06] <Fujitsu> Oh, woops. I do have the latest version here. It was lucidlife's debian/copyright I was thinking of that had those changes...
[10:07] <Burgundavia> lastnode: last years SoC had an innovative bug/defect system you should look at
[10:08] <lastnode> Burgundavia, got a link? although i must add that this is mainly concerned with sending logs for troubleshooting (although it could tie in with a bug system)
[10:09] <Burgundavia> not off hand
[10:09] <lastnode> ok, thanks anyway Burgundavia. :-) it was originally written in bash (I know, I know) but then imbrandom convinced me to rewrite it in python.
[10:16] <doko_> pitti: did you look at Till's packages? else I would do it now
[10:16] <pitti> doko_: not yet, sorry; please go ahead if you have time
[10:17] <doko_> time ... no, but I go ahead =)
[10:17] <dholbach> heya doko_
[10:17] <mvo> hey doko_!
[10:18] <doko_> hi gnome slackers ;)
[10:18] <dholbach> haha
[10:30] <Mithrandir> doko_: are you responding to mdz's mail about the daily health checks?
[10:30] <doko_> Mithrandir: after OOo hits the archive
[10:31] <Mithrandir> doko_: as in, it's fixed when the new ooo hits or you'll respond after it hits?
[10:32] <doko_> Mithrandir: most of it will be fixed, I'll look at it again, after the health check is updated.
[10:32] <Mithrandir> doko_: 'k
[10:33] <doko_> oh, the first build did finish
[10:33] <doko_> Kamion: please approve the new openoffice.org binaries in NEW
[10:33] <Kamion> they aren't there (yet, or Keybuk's already approved them)
[10:37] <doko_> ahh, no new packages for amd64 and powerpc, and the i386 build just finished
[10:38] <Kamion> crimsun: could you pass on that somebody needs to rebuild xubuntu-system-tools for the new liboobs? before beta if possible
[10:39] <crimsun> Kamion: yessir
[10:39] <Kamion> thanks
[10:39] <doko_> Kamion: hmm, trying to find the queue view again ... have to save the link
[10:39] <crimsun> Kamion: just a simple rebuild?
[10:40] <Kamion> dunno, may need to be a merge from gnome-system-tools
[10:41] <crimsun> ok, thanks
[10:41] <Kamion> I just noticed it as a blocked not-built-from-source removal
[10:41] <doko_> nevermind, found it
[10:41] <Kamion> doko_: /distros/ubuntu/edgy/+queue
[10:42] <seb128> doko_: read the /query from yesterday? do you still have your libgnome-java changes locally?
[10:42] <doko_> seb128: have to read it ...
[10:42] <Mithrandir> dholbach: libgnomeuimm-2.6-1c2a seems to be uninstallable due to libcairomm-1.0-0 soname bump.  Are you on it?
[10:43] <dholbach> Mithrandir: yeah, can do - thanks
[10:43] <Nafallo> morning * :-)
[10:44] <dholbach> Mithrandir: I'll rebuild the others too
[10:45] <Mithrandir> dholbach: yay, thanks.
[10:48] <Kamion> damn, I've just noticed why auto-resize isn't working very well in edgy's ubiquity
[10:49] <Kamion> no 64-bit maths in the shell ...
[10:49] <Mithrandir> we should just stop supporting 32 bit arches. :-P
[10:49] <Nafallo> LOL
[10:50] <Nafallo> Mithrandir: or implement your multi-arch ;-)
[10:50] <Mithrandir> Nafallo: that doesn't help in this case
[10:50] <Kamion> int
[10:50] <Kamion> arith(s)
[10:50] <Kamion> ...
[10:50] <Kamion>         long result;
[10:50] <Kamion> ...
[10:50] <Kamion>         return (result);
[10:50] <Kamion> score
[10:50] <Kamion> not that it matters much
[10:50] <Nafallo> why do we have sound on a server? :-)
[10:51] <Kamion> Nafallo: originally, that was so that we had the hotplug blacklist files consistently installed
[10:51] <Kamion> they're in linux-sound-base now, so it's possible that that can be tweaked, but it would require careful thought
[10:51] <Nafallo> and now? can we move it to somewhere not servisch? :-)
[10:52] <Kamion> read what I just wrote
[10:52] <Nafallo> hmmm
[10:52] <Kamion> "it's possible that that can be tweaked, but it would require careful thought"
[10:52] <Kamion> i.e. I don't have time to check now :)
[10:52] <Nafallo> Recommends might help? :-)
[10:52] <Kamion> no
[10:52] <Kamion> helps absolutely not at all
[10:52] <Nafallo> that would make me have my server installed with ubuntu-minimal ;-)
[10:53] <Kamion> it would be wrong
[10:53] <Kamion> either it should be in minimal, or it shouldn't
[10:53] <Kamion> there should be no halfway houses for minimal
[10:53] <Nafallo> oki.
[10:53] <Kamion> note that debootstrap's automatic dependency resolution does not follow Recommends
[10:54] <Nafallo> ah, makes sence then.
[10:54] <Nafallo> hmm, we have ppp* and reiserfsprogs in -standard?
[10:55] <Nafallo> Kamion: maybe I should go write a spec for edgy+1? :-)
[10:56] <Nafallo> if that would be helpful etcetera.
[10:58] <Kamion> Nafallo: I don't think it would be helpful
[10:58] <Kamion> a spec would be overkill here
[10:58] <Kamion> we don't need a spec for every little seed tweak
[10:58] <Kamion> reiserfsprogs is there because by policy we have a reasonable set of filesystem support as standard
[10:59] <Kamion> (that could arguably be recommends, though)
[10:59] <Nafallo> i.e. ext3+reiser :-)
[10:59] <Kamion> please take the filesystem advocacy elsewhere; thank you :)
[11:00] <Nafallo> hehe, we already advocate ext3 quite hard, that should be enough. so I argue the same for -standard ;-)
[11:01] <Kamion> whatever
[11:01] <Nafallo> how do you want me to move forward with those seed changes, since I guess it's not really edgy material this late in the cycle? :-)
[11:01] <Kamion> feel free to file bugs on ubuntu-meta
[11:01] <Trewas> could someone take a look at bug 58927 and maybe assign it to someone? it's a configuration issue with dhcp3 which causes problems only with ~broken routers, but these a-link roadrunners (and I doubt they are the only broken ones) are very common here and if the config is not changed for edgy, there will be many with non-working networks
[11:01] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 58927 in Ubuntu "Network unreachable with Edgy" [Untriaged,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/58927
[11:01] <Kamion> anything complicated should be discussed on -devel
[11:01] <Nafallo> oki, will do then :-). thanks Kamion *hug*.
[11:07] <Kamion> pitti: have you seen the further discussion on Debian #
[11:07] <Kamion> er Debian #383314?
[11:07] <Ubugtu> Debian bug 383314 in libmagick9 "libmagick9: Buffer overflow in SGI parser [CVE-2006-4144] " [Grave,Open]  http://bugs.debian.org/383314
[11:08] <Kamion> pitti: I'm just going to sync in unstable's imagemagick for edgy, unless you have any objections, but you might want to revisit the fixes for dapper etc.
[11:09] <pitti> Kamion: yeah, I saw it
[11:09] <pitti> Kamion: it's on my TODO list
[11:09] <pitti> Kamion: yeah, syncing for edgy would be appreciated
[11:11] <Kamion> ok, doing, thanks
[11:13] <Nafallo> Kamion: there is some reason we have aptitude in -minimal rather than standard I guess? :-)
[11:16] <seb128> iwj: hi. When do you think you will upload a firefox shipping xpidl again? The build of some packages is broken by that at the moment
[11:21] <jdub> Seveas: onya - bof was good?
[11:22] <dholbach> pitti: opal seems to suffer from a pkg-create-dbgsym problem as well
[11:22] <dholbach> pitti: can you tell me, what you changed yesterday, so I can check it on my own?
[11:23] <pitti> dholbach: ok, I'll deal with it, but I'd like to finish with this thunderbird/firefox mess
[11:23] <dholbach> sure, take your time
[11:23] <pitti> dholbach: yesterday? I just fixed debian/rules to do what it wanted to
[11:23] <dholbach> pitti: ok, I check
[11:23] <pitti> dholbach: in general, I fix stuff in pkg-create-dbgsym, though
[11:23] <dholbach> I believe this might be the same problem
[11:23] <pitti> since it shouldn't alter build behaviour normally
[11:24] <pitti> dholbach: but with yesterday's package it executed dh_strip under compat level 5, but thought it would be < 5 (due to the wrong test)
[11:24] <dholbach> thanks - I'll check it out
[11:26] <Kamion> Nafallo: yes; the installer uses it to install the rest of the system.
[11:26] <Kamion> including, oh just for example, standard
[11:26] <Nafallo> thought so :-)
[11:27] <Fujitsu> Kamion, thanks for those syncs :)
[11:30] <dholbach> pitti: looks like a similar problem *testbuild*
[11:32] <Seveas> jdub, yeah, bof was good ;0
[11:32] <Seveas> 
[11:35] <Seveas> jdub, I'm expecting a few mails from people who attended with feedback theywant to be forwarded to people "higher in the chain" than me, so people should expect some spam from me ;)
[11:37] <Nafallo> Kamion: there you go. 7 bugs filed for discussion ;-).
[11:39] <jdub> Seveas: rock on - thanks!
[11:47] <Nafallo> Kamion: in case you're not subscribed to the ML, I also mailed -server about them. Invited for discussion :-).
[11:51] <cbx33> Kamion: I fixed that bug with a 2 liner, so I'll rebuild the package and get ogra to upload in the next 5 hours
[11:57] <tepsipakki> latest flashplugin-nonfree for dapper-backports has some problems
[11:57] <tepsipakki> it isn't built yet
[11:58] <Fujitsu> tepsipakki, that was fixed with a new upload earlier today.
[11:58] <tepsipakki> fujitsu: oh, there's nothing on dapper-changes
[11:58] <Fujitsu> tepsipakki, what was the last upload you saw?
[11:58] <tepsipakki> ubuntu2~dapper1 is the latest there
[11:59] <Fujitsu> Hm.
[11:59] <Fujitsu> Yes, that's what I meant.
[11:59] <Fujitsu> And you're right, it's not built.
[11:59] <Fujitsu> The buildds are rather tied up at the moment, unfortunately.
[12:00] <StevenK> ln -s buildds dokos-bitches
[12:01] <cbx33> guys I have a python script that is run as part of the Xsession.d
[12:02] <tepsipakki> is there redistribution problems with the plugin, or why is a complex wrapper needed?
[12:02] <cbx33> when X session finishes, the script should be closed too
[12:02] <tepsipakki> s/is/are/
[12:02] <cbx33> why isn't....there is no signal handling in it yet....is that why?
[12:02] <cbx33> but the scipt still runs when the user logs out
[12:02] <cbx33> and continues to run
[12:02] <cbx33> I don't want this happeneing
[12:02] <Riddell> carlos: did you get the desktop*pot files?  and did the utf8 issues get fixed?
[12:03] <carlos> Riddell: I guess, because we got 30000 new files in our import queue, let me check it (oo.org import is delaying those imports)
[12:04] <carlos> Riddell: yeah, I see some .po files for desktop templates
[12:05] <carlos> about the UTF-8 issue, I see that konqueror.pot has the UTF-8 tag, so it should be fixed
[12:05] <carlos> Riddell: thanks!!
[12:06] <dholbach> my wifi hates me today
[12:06] <dholbach> narf
[12:11] <dholbach> pitti: I did some changes to the opal package, but it's not quite it yet - if you could have a look later on, that'd be nice -- I have my changes on http://daniel.holba.ch/temp/
[12:13] <pitti> dholbach: ok, I'll look at it ASAP
[12:13] <dholbach> pitti: take your time :)
[12:17] <StevenK> dholbach: Heh, nice domain.
[12:17] <dholbach> StevenK: thanks :)
[12:17] <cbx33> anyone know how when an X session closes it stops the processes called in the /etc/X11/Xsession.d/ configs?
[12:17] <Riddell> carlos: great
[12:18] <carlos> Riddell: I will confirm that anyway as soon as all files are imported (it would take a day or two)
[12:20] <Riddell> carlos, jordi: did you write a response to that KDE wiki page?
[12:20] <carlos> Riddell: jordi told me that he will have it ready before tomorrow night
[12:22] <jordi> yeah
[12:30] <xadf> hi
[12:30] <xadf> why is there no security update for flashplugin-nonfree for dappefr?
[12:31] <pitti> xadf: it's not supported, thus it may take a while
[12:31] <pitti> or not even be done at all
[12:31] <xadf> very clever
[12:31] <Fujitsu> ?
[12:31] <jono> anyone else getting an openoffice.org crash whenever it loads a file picker?
[12:32] <Fujitsu> jono, known bug...
[12:32] <dholbach> jono: yes, known issue
[12:32] <jono> ahhh cool
[12:32] <Fujitsu> I forget which one, but it'll be fixed when OOo is rebuilt...
[12:32] <dholbach> you can change the filechooser to be non-gnome
[12:32] <dholbach> (as a tempoary workaroung)
[12:32] <Fujitsu> In fact, it should be fixed very shortly, as OOo has finished building on a couple of archs.
[12:40] <Treenaks> hm, _something_ in my apache2 on dapper is leaking memory at ~30mb/day
[12:41] <Treenaks> how do I find out what it is?
[12:41] <jdub> Treenaks: it's php
[12:41] <Treenaks> jdub: PHP is not even installed
[12:41] <Treenaks> I suspect fcgid though
[12:41] <jdub> Treenaks: yep. that's just how scary it is.
[12:42] <Treenaks> jdub: ;)
[12:42] <Nafallo> lol
[12:43] <jdub> Treenaks: check where your server is hosted - i'm sure there'll be a php installation nearby, sucking its will to live
[12:45] <Treenaks> jdub: it's in a shared colo, so it's very likely, yes...
[12:45] <Treenaks> *hmm*
[12:47] <Nafallo> Treenaks: seems you have a bad harddrive ;-)
[12:47] <Treenaks> I just want apache to show me why its heap is 40MB (and no, valgrinding it is not really an option :))
[12:50] <Fujitsu> I am a hard drive... a 10.4GB one.
[12:50] <pitti> dudes, dudettest, and duderinos: May I proudly present http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/ddebs/
[12:50] <Fujitsu> Wow!
[12:50] <Fujitsu> Yay!
[12:50] <Fujitsu> Finally :D
[12:50] <pitti> seb128: debug crack for the world!
[12:51] <Fujitsu> I presume they actually have the stuff in them?
[12:51] <pitti> sure
[12:51] <Fujitsu> Good!
[12:51] <pitti> Fujitsu: but we only started grabbing them yesterday, so it's veeery incomplete
[12:51] <Fujitsu> pitti, at least it's there now :)
[12:52] <Fujitsu> Arsgdfgdgd.
[12:52] <Fujitsu> I just clicked on one in Firefo.
[12:52] <Fujitsu> *Firefox
[12:52] <Fujitsu> Of course, it decided it wanted to render it as unicode.
[12:52] <Fujitsu> Hi, sabdfl!
[12:52] <seb128> pitti: WAOUH
[12:52] <Treenaks> Fujitsu: sounds like a mis-configured webserver
[12:52] <pitti> Fujitsu: don't worry, to make this actually useful I'll update the apport-retrace script to automatically fetch them
[12:53] <Fujitsu> Good idea, I was wondering how they were usable :)
[12:53] <sabdfl> hi guys
[12:53] <seb128> hey sabdfl
[12:53] <seb128> pitti: so we can apt-get install package-sbgsym now? :)
[12:53] <pitti> hi sabdfl 
[12:53] <Nafallo> morning sabdfl :-)
[12:53] <cbx33> hey sabdfl 
[12:53] <pitti> seb128: if you want to, yes
[12:53] <seb128> pitti: can I blog about it? ;)
[12:53] <pitti> seb128: I didn't test it with apt-get yet, though
[12:54] <dholbach> pitti: YOU ROCK
[12:54] <pitti> seb128: wait until it's polished a bit :) I'll do an official announcement on u-d-a
[12:54] <mvo> hey sabdfl
[12:54] <seb128> pitti: ok, cool
[12:54] <pitti> seb128: I do create indexes, but I'm not sure whether apt-get is happy with '.ddeb'
[12:55] <pitti> seb128: after I finish the last bits on rookery, I'll try that
[01:00] <pitti> BenC: good bye, hello, goodbye, hello :)
[01:02] <Nafallo> haha
[01:14] <Mithrandir> iwj: my firefox has managed to lose all its CA certificates.  Is there an easy way to reload them without trashing all the settings?
[01:14] <Mithrandir> iwj: I _think_ it happened when my ~ filled completely.
[01:18] <mjg59> Burgundavia: Hi
[01:20] <mjg59> Keybuk: So what happens now if usplash times out and gdm doesn't get started?
[01:21] <Keybuk> mjg59: *shrug* what happens if usplash times out and gives you a blank console instead of the one with the waiting fsck?
[01:22] <Keybuk> the answer to your question is that after a short period, they will get flipped to vt1 by the usplash init script in the ordinary boot sequence
[01:24] <iwj> Mithrandir: Sorry, I'm afraid I don't know.
[01:24] <iwj> And I have to go to the bank now before the queues get insane.  Back after lunch ...
[01:25] <mjg59> Keybuk: Right, that was what I wanted to know
[01:25] <mjg59> Keybuk: As long as they do end up back on vt1
[01:25] <Keybuk> there will always be something on the vt8 under usplash, because that's where notification of fsck ends up
[01:25] <Keybuk> yes, they either end up in gdm, or on vt1
[01:25] <Keybuk> I did check that :p
[01:26] <Keybuk> if gdm times out, *and* the boot sequence stops, then a shell will be on vt8 for some reason
[01:26] <Keybuk> either spawned from an init script, or by upstart
[01:27] <cbx33> guys I need some realy help here
[01:27] <Keybuk> it's ugly, but it's a necessary hack while we need to switch to a text vt before starting gdm
[01:27] <Keybuk> if we could just start gdm, then usplash could exit because of the vt flip
[01:27] <cbx33> does any one know how the Xsession.d configs should be closed
[01:27] <Keybuk> and it could flip to vt1 if it existed normally
[01:27] <cbx33> are they sent a signal....
[01:28] <cbx33> ogra asked me to look at my scp-client script as when a user logs out of X, it stays running
[01:28] <cbx33> but then so does dbus
[01:28] <cbx33> and gnome-vfs
[01:28] <cbx33> are they sent a special signal...?
[01:28] <cbx33> their ppid is 1, so their parent never dies
[01:28] <Keybuk> they may be sent SIGHUP
[01:29] <cbx33> Keybuk: nope already tried that
[01:29] <mvo> Kamion: I have a small fix in the auto-remove view code in synaptic, ok to upload http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/tmp/synaptic-view-fix.diff?
[01:29] <Keybuk> ah, if their ppid is 1, then no, they'll be sent no signal
[01:29] <cbx33> indeed
[01:29] <Keybuk> you only get SIGHUP if you're in the foreground process group of a controlling terminal
[01:29] <cbx33> so how are they asked to die.....or.....more pretenantly...are they actually asked to die?
[01:29] <Keybuk> (yes, I've read that chapter of Stevens, and made it through to the end <g>)
[01:29] <Keybuk> I think they just time out and go away on their own
[01:29] <cbx33> well that's the problem....they don;t ;)
[01:30] <Keybuk> they usually do for me
[01:30] <_ion> keybuk: Btw, i quite like the fact that sulogin respawns.
[01:30] <Keybuk> hmm
[01:30] <cbx33> Keybuk: these procs have been stable for the last 30mins
[01:30] <Keybuk> cbx33: here, gnome-vfs-daemon is in the same session as dbus-daemon (session)
[01:31] <Keybuk> and dbus-daemon is in its own session
[01:32] <cbx33> hmmm.....
[01:32] <cbx33> hang on
[01:32] <cbx33> lemme try a few things
[01:33] <seanh> Hi - I asked on here a few days ago about a way of automatically 'cleaning up' the home directory of a public user account, i.e. deleting stuff ppl download. PAM was mentioned, and I wondered if someone could expand on how I'd use PAM to achieve this, and why it's better than rsync'ing the homedir?
[01:34] <cbx33> i was reading s wrong
[01:34] <cbx33> ps
[01:34] <cbx33> you're right Keybuk, they are children of x-session-manager
[01:34] <cbx33> are they going to be sent a SIGHUP?
[01:34] <cbx33> because I tried handling that in my python script but it doesn't work
[01:35] <Keybuk> no, they won't be sent that
[01:35] <Keybuk> ah
[01:35] <cbx33> will they be sent anythin?
[01:35] <Keybuk> so x-session-manager has a child called dbus-launch
[01:35] <cbx33> yes
[01:35] <Keybuk> that will be sent some kind of signal when the session terminates
[01:35] <Keybuk> and that dbus-launch will send a signal to dbus-daemon to die (maybe just TERM)
[01:36] <cbx33> hmm....
[01:37] <Keybuk> and that will, in turn, send a signal to other processes in its session (maybe HUP)
[01:37] <cbx33> http://pastebin.ca/178574
[01:38] <Mithrandir> iwj: in case somebody gets the same problem: rm-ing extensions.cache from the profile fixed the problem for me
[01:38] <cbx33> Keybuk: you can see it's a child process
[01:38] <cbx33> so what happens when x-session-manager get's killed?
[01:40] <Keybuk> you'll have to look at the code for x-session-manager for that
[01:40] <Keybuk> nothing automatic
[01:41] <cbx33> damn 
[01:44] <pitti> seb128: $ sudo apt-get install yelp-dbgsym -> works!!!11!!
[01:44] <mvo> pitti: cool!
[01:45] <pitti> just with 'deb http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/ddebs edgy main'
[01:45] <pitti> time for an announcement, I guess
[01:49] <slomo_> pitti: now we only need to rebuild the complete archive? ;)
[01:49] <pitti> slomo_: sure, trivial, isn't it? :)
[01:50] <slomo_> pitti: would also have the advantage of ssp everywhere ;) i guess we still have some packages that didn't had an upload since ages
[01:52] <Mithrandir> problem of rebuilding the archive is more the mirror hit than rebuilding the archive..
[01:52] <Mithrandir> it takes a week or so, but that's not really a problem.
[01:53] <seb128> pitti: rock on ;)
[01:53] <seb128> pitti: I tried before but there was no dists yet :)
[01:53] <pitti> seb128: yeah, I trashed and fixed it several times
[01:54] <iwj> Mithrandir: Noted, thanks.
[01:54] <pitti> Mithrandir: I think for edgy we should just rebuild some crucial packages; between beta and final there'll be a fair number of uploads anyawy
[01:54] <iwj> Good technique: guess what to rm :-).
[01:54] <seb128> pitti: we will have the whole GNOME with GNOME 2.16.1 anyway :p
[01:54] <pitti> seb128: nice
[01:54] <seb128> pitti: should we drop the -dbg packages then?
[01:54] <pitti> seb128: if we have ubuntu specific changes anyway, and it doesn't make merging much harder, sure
[01:55] <pitti> seb128: but we shuold just keep them for packages which we can sync
[01:57] <slomo_> pitti: can't we just let the buildds drop every package named *-dbg?
[01:58] <pitti> slomo_: that would be inconsistent with source *.dsc and will probably disrupt other thing, too
[02:16] <pitti> can any native English speaker please take a look at the announcement (for u-devel-announce) at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/24232 and suggest some language/grammar/typo/madness corrections?
[02:17] <ogra> infinity, around ? 
[02:27] <Fujitsu> That's fine, pitti.
[02:28] <pitti> Fujitsu: thanks
[02:28] <Fujitsu> No problem.
[02:28] <ajmitch> pitti: splendid
[02:28] <ajmitch> now I just need to be able to ship mono debugging info automatically :)
[02:34] <Kamion> mvo: yes, that looks OK
[02:34] <Kamion> (synaptic auto-remove)
[02:34] <seanh> Anyone know what package I need to have to use the notify-send commnand?
[02:34] <pitti> seanh: libnotify-bin
[02:34] <slomo_> seanh: libnotify-bin
[02:34] <seanh> thanks
[02:34] <pitti> slomo_: snap!
[02:34] <_ion> seanh: apt-file :-)
[02:34] <mvo> Kamion: thanks! is the freeze in effect already? or only after the meeting?
[02:35] <pitti> seanh: great way to test command-not-found magic :)
[02:35] <slomo_> pitti: hm in my xchat my response is above your's ;)
[02:35] <mvo> command-not-found magic!
[02:35] <pitti> slomo_: hm, not in mine, darn race conditions :)
[02:36] <mvo> slomo_: my reality supports pittis view
[02:36] <ajmitch> slomo_: xchat cheats
[02:36] <Kamion> mvo: undefined :-)
[02:36] <seanh> I'm not on edgy, don't think I have the c-n-f magic
[02:36] <mvo> Kamion: lol! ok :)
[02:36] <slomo_> mvo: my reality is more beautiful ;)
[02:36] <mvo> :-D
[02:36] <Kamion> my opinion is generally that freezes start at the development team meeting, but I don't know if that agrees with Matt's :-)
[02:37] <Keybuk> that's certainly true this time
[02:37] <Keybuk> because Matt's in bed
[02:37] <Keybuk> and we can't be frozen until he's had coffee
[02:37] <ogra> heh
[02:37] <ogra> so its a coffe issue :)
[02:38] <ogra> someone go and steal his coffee :)
[02:45] <iwj> Yay!  My fix worked *astonishment*
[02:45] <iwj> pitti: I have a working ff1.5+yelp+epiphany for breezy.
[02:45] <iwj> I just need to get rid of the debugging printfs (and file a few bugs upstream).
[02:46] <iwj> What would you like me to do with them ?
[02:46] <iwj> The epiphany just needs a rebuild.  yelp needs a bugfix too.
[02:46] <iwj> A one-line variable initialisation.
[02:58] <pitti> iwj: rock!
[02:58] <Hobbsee> pitti: paper!
[02:58] <pitti> Hobbsee: scissors
[02:58] <_ion> hammer time
[02:58] <Hobbsee> heh
[02:58] <ogra> tsk
[02:59] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: be nice to poor ogra 
[02:59] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: why?
[02:59] <Hobbsee> he's tsk'ing
[03:00] <ajmitch> because he's busy working hard 
[03:00] <pitti> iwj: once firefox itself works fine, you should upload it to jackass; then I'll publish it to jackass' internal archive, so that the reverse dependencies can build against it
[03:00] <ogra> hey, come on ... i had 5 wonderful hours of sleep after being up 54h in a row :)
[03:00] <pitti> iwj: then all depending packages (yelp, epiphany, etc.) can be uploaded (they should preferably have a versioned build-dep against f-dev)
[03:00] <Hobbsee> ogra: ouch :P
[03:01] <pitti> iwj: once everything is ready, I can release all packages in a single shot, so that we don't break upgrades
[03:01] <ogra> Hobbsee, well, sleep is for after freeze ;)
[03:01] <Hobbsee> heh
[03:01] <_ion> http://www.umop.com/images/rps25.jpg
[03:03] <iwj> pitti: OK.  But WDYM `upload to jackass' ?
[03:03] <pitti> iwj: aka security.upload.ubuntu.com
[03:04] <pitti> iwj: I'm just releasing tbird 1.5 + two handfuls of reverse deps to breezy, I'll see how it goes :)
[03:06] <pitti> tkamppeter: lol @ 'Debian user's morning gymnastics' :)
[03:07] <pitti> tkamppeter: (btw, new hplip is not yet uploaded, doko_ kindly agreed to review/upload it soon)
[03:07] <doko_> pitti: soon ...
[03:08] <doko_> fighting with OOo and the archive :-/
[03:08] <janimo> pitti, tkamppeter: hi, is the new foomatic-db still planned?
[03:08] <pitti> janimo: yes, it is
[03:10] <tkamppeter> janimo, yes, it only needs to get uploaded. The bug reports I have already switched to "Fix Committed".
[03:11] <iwj> pitti: Good luck.
[03:17] <ogra> how do i force usplash to 100% ?
[03:18] <ogra> would: usplash_write "PROGRESS 100" work ? 
[03:19] <LeeJunFan> gcc's stack smashing protection probably isn't a good thing to have on by default. :(
[03:20] <Fujitsu> Why not, LeeJunFan?
[03:21] <LeeJunFan> you can't build most kernels with it on.
[03:21] <LeeJunFan> http://lists-archives.org/linux-kernel/973030-2-6-17-mm5-busted-toolchain-usr-klibc-exec_l-c-59-undefined-reference-to-__stack_chk_fail.html
[03:22] <zul> LeeJunFan: thats why the ubuntu kernels use -fno-stack-protector
[03:22] <LeeJunFan> zul: yeah, so I gathered now.
[03:26] <bddebian> Howdy folks
[03:29] <Yagisan> can someone please confirm this bug #61663
[03:29] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 61663 in linux-source-2.6.17 "Displays "ILLEGAL EXTENDED X86 OPCODE" on VT1 during boot" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61663
[03:30] <Fujitsu> Yagisan, I'd say it was only AMD64.
[03:31] <Yagisan> Fujitsu, you are probably right, but it concerns me
[03:33] <pitti> Yagisan: yup, amd64+nvidia
[03:34] <Yagisan> pitti, thanks. thats my combination too
[03:34] <pitti> Yagisan: it's a dup of bug 60135
[03:34] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 60135 in usplash "does not work at all on amd64 with nvidia card" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/60135
[03:34] <Yagisan> ah crap. sorry for the dupe
[03:34] <pitti> no problem
[03:45] <iwj> pitti: breezy-security, then, not breezy-updates, I take it.
[03:45] <pitti> iwj: yes, since it fixes two tons of security bugs
[03:46] <pitti> and -updates does not allow us staging
[03:46] <iwj> And -sa (include the .orig.tar.gz) ?
[03:46] <iwj> Staging is really necessary here.
[03:46] <pitti> iwj: yes, you'll need that
[03:47] <iwj> FYI, Mozilla 353641 has my report about the main reason why it hasn't been working.
[03:47] <Ubugtu> Mozilla bug 353641 in String "ToLowerCase assumes iterators comparable but old string ones aren't" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=353641
[03:47] <iwj> It's a sad sad tale.
[03:47] <pitti> uh
[03:47] <pitti> argh, who broke mplayer? *sigh*
[03:47] <iwj> And I'm pretty sure the fix isn't right but I think it's safe and will make the symptoms go away.
[03:47] <Nafallo> pitti: fix uploaded
[03:48] <pitti> seb128: the last time I claimed that totem-gst would work I must have used totem-xine accidentally; -gst is still unusable for me :(
[03:50] <slomo_> pitti: what's broken with totem-gst for you?
[03:50] <pitti> slomo_: audio lags behind video for one or two seconds
[03:51] <pitti> format-wise it's pretty good
[03:51] <slomo_> pitti: which container, audio and video format is this?
[03:51] <pitti> (format -> codeds)
[03:51] <ogra> Kamion, i know youre a bit familiar with portmap ... and idea about bug 61668 ?
[03:51] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 61668 in portmap "Building LTSP chroot stops during portmap installation" [Untriaged,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61668
[03:51] <ogra> it seems to run a very long lasting netstat test from the postinst
[03:51] <slomo_> pitti: you might want to try the gst-ffmpeg cvs snapshot i have locally... there were many timestamp (and other fixes)
[03:52] <pitti> slomo_: AVI MPEG4, mp3 audio
[03:53] <slomo_> pitti: http://slomosnail.de/~slomo/temp/libgstffmpeg.so  put this in /usr/lib/gstreamer0.10 and retry :)
[03:53] <pitti> slomo_: is that amd64?
[03:53] <slomo_> pitti: no... sorry
[03:53] <ogra> s/and/any/
[03:53] <Kamion> ogra: actually, I don't really know portmap at all, I'm afraid
[03:53] <slomo_> pitti: cvs -z3 -d:ext:developername@cvs.freedesktop.org:/cvs/gstreamer co gst-ffmpeg   if you want to build it yourself
[03:53] <ogra> ok
[03:54] <Kamion> I think I uploaded it once to fix something I did understand
[03:54] <slomo_> pitti: otherwise... can you upload the video somewhere? :)
[03:54] <pitti> slomo_: will try it at some time
[03:54] <ogra> good, i'll try to find it out myself then ...
[03:54] <pitti> slomo_: erm, well, it's huge, and it's copyrighted, too (ripped from a friend's DVD)
[03:59] <jdong> Kamion: is it normal for a package to stay in "needs building" for nearly 24 hours?
[03:59] <jdong> Kamion: https://launchpad.net/+builds/+build/247502
[04:04] <Kamion> jdong: -> infinity
[04:23] <madduck> does anyone know Dennis Kaarsemaker ?
[04:23] <_ion> He's Seveas.
[04:23] <madduck> thx.
[04:23] <madduck> he won the Nokia 770 from the calibre.ie project survey, but he's not responded... :/
[04:24] <Nafallo> kewl
[04:24] <Nafallo> :-)
[04:24] <madduck> I hope he replies in time. I hate it when the second draw get the price because someone is AFK
[04:25] <_ion> *cough* In that case, i'm him. ;-)
[04:25] <madduck> hehe
[04:25] <mjg59> madduck: He's generally active, but not so often during the day
[04:25] <madduck> mjg59: ok, i hope he answers to the mail.
[04:26] <madduck> it's been almost a week now i think.
[04:26] <madduck> but i guess we'll just wait, given that he's known by you guys..
[04:28] <elmo> madduck: he's been at EuroOScon recently and had limited connectivity
[04:28] <madduck> we'll wait. thanks guys.
[04:29] <mjg59> Kamion: So there's a minor issue with usplash right now
[04:29] <mjg59> Kamion: It seems that some cards don't bother to implement palette setting in 256 colour vesa modes
[04:30] <mjg59> Kamion: So it may be necessary to add 16 bit support and use that by default, then fall back to 256 colour if we can't set that mode
[04:30] <mjg59> Which obviously means a certain amount of pain
[04:30] <_ion> It would also be nice if usplash fell back from a failing resolution to 640x400 or so.
[04:31] <mjg59> _ion: 640x400 isn't a vesa mode, so no
[04:31] <mjg59> I don't know what you mean by a "failing resolution"
[04:31] <_ion> E.g. here usplash.conf defaults to 1024x768 and usplash isn't able to initialize the screen in that resolution for some reason. I tried to debug it a few days ago, but didn't have success.
[04:32] <mjg59> _ion: On what hardware?
[04:32] <_ion> 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation NV28 [GeForce4 Ti 4800 SE]  (rev a1)
[04:32] <mjg59> On x86?
[04:32] <_ion> Yes.
[04:32] <mjg59> Ok
[04:32] <mjg59> And if you use a different resolution it works?
[04:32] <_ion> I manually changed it to 800x600 and it worked fine.
[04:32] <mjg59> Hm
[04:33] <gnomefreak> mine works with 1024x768 but only on shutdown
[04:33] <_ion> gnomefreak: Try update-initramfs -u
[04:34] <_ion> gnomefreak: AFAIK usplash initially reads usplash.conf from initramfs, and from /etc on shutdown.
[04:34] <gnomefreak> ah
[04:34] <gnomefreak> its running now ty
[04:34] <gnomefreak> ok brb reboot see if it works
[04:34] <doko_> tkamppeter, pitti: I don't see UVF exceptions for foo2zjs and foomatic-filters. Did I just overlook these?
[04:42] <iwj> Is there an reasonably easy way to get a copy of a .diff.gz which has expired from ftp.debian.org ?
[04:43] <pitti> iwj: snapshot.debian.net?
[04:43] <pitti> iwj: it usually works quite fine nowadays
[04:43] <iwj> Thanks.  I thought something like that existed but I forgot the domain.  I should have zone dumped debian.org :-).
[04:45] <Riddell> dholbach: are you planning to package the docs?
[04:46] <tkamppeter> doko_, you should have gotten both by e-mail now (doko@ubuntu.com) -> biff.
[04:46] <dholbach> Riddell: what are you referring to?
[04:46] <Riddell> dholbach: ubuntu-docs
[04:46] <Riddell> dholbach: doc freeze is today
[04:46] <dholbach> ok
[04:46] <dholbach> I'll talk to some of the folks and ask them beforehand
[04:47] <dholbach> but yeah, I can do it
[04:47] <Riddell> dholbach: could we do it as 1 source package?
[04:47] <doko_> tkamppeter: ok, but I don't see the exception for foo2zjs
[04:47] <dholbach> Riddell: I would prefer to do that at some other time - surely it needs buildsystem/packaging changes?
[04:48] <Riddell> dholbach: yes, it would
[04:48] <gnomefreak> _ion: ty it worked :)
[04:48] <dholbach> Riddell: I'm too busy to do that today
[04:49] <dholbach> Riddell: can't we postpone that idea?
[04:49] <Riddell> Kamion: scroll view added to mount page for kde ubiquity http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/bzr/ubiquity/ubuntu/
[04:49] <Riddell> dholbach: ok
[04:49] <dholbach> Riddell: thanks
[04:49] <Riddell> dholbach: so I'll package the kubuntu docs then
[04:49] <dholbach> ok
[04:50] <ogra> Riddell, is the menu-xdg dep in kdelibs gnoe ? 
[04:50] <ogra> *gone
[04:50] <Riddell> ogra: no, I can do that now
[04:50] <ogra> would be nice, thanks
[04:52] <tkamppeter> doko_: Current foo2zjs is from January, so it is REALLY old. The upstream package has a lot of changes, especially
[04:53] <tkamppeter> - it fixes the UDEV rules so that the automatic firmware loading for the HP LaserJet 1000, 1005, 1018, and 1020 really takes place.
[04:53] <doko_> tkamppeter: I agree, I see no reason why we should not include it. but formally we need the exception from mdz or Kamion 
[04:54] <tkamppeter> - It adds support for many printers including LJ 1018, 1020, 1022
[04:55] <tkamppeter> Kamion, MDZ, WDYT about the foo2zjs update?
[04:56] <mdz> tkamppeter: not enough information to say; please email as usual
[04:56] <mdz> tkamppeter: we need to weigh the risk of all the other changes vs. the changes you watn
[05:00] <tkamppeter> mdz, I have e-mailed all UVF ERs to you yesterday (and before).
[05:00] <mdz> tkamppeter: I have one yesterday and one today
[05:00] <tkamppeter> doko_: Thanks for tellin that Kamion also decides about UVF ERs, I have forwarded all to him now.
[05:01] <tkamppeter> mdz: which packages?
[05:01] <tkamppeter> Kamion: I have forwarded all my UVF ERs to you now -> biff.
[05:01] <doko_> tkamppeter, mdz: I uploaded all but foo2zjs
[05:02] <mdz> tkamppeter: after the meeting
[05:02] <tkamppeter> Thanks doko_, so it seems as I have to close some bugs.
[05:03] <tkamppeter> doko_, Kamion, mdz, pitti: I have tested foo2zjs on the LaserJet 1020, 1022, and Color LaserJet 2600n, all are working correctly.
[05:03] <mdz> tkamppeter: the meeting is in progress in #ubuntu-meeting
[05:03] <tkamppeter> The 1022 was used with HPIJS before and this did not really work, too slow and half of the files did not print at all.
[05:09] <pitti> mvo: is there a bug about the u-desktop dependency handling already or shall I create one?
[05:10] <mvo> pitti: I think there is no bug yet, so feel free :)
[05:10] <mvo> pitti: make sure to subscribe the livefs build masters as well :)
[05:10] <pitti> yep
[05:13] <Kamion> Riddell: thanks, will check it over
[05:15] <Kamion> Riddell: please use UNRELEASED as the distribution in ubiquity changelogs unless you've actually uploaded it; it makes it a lot less confusing
[05:15] <Riddell> Kamion: ok
[05:15] <Kamion> that's quite a common convention, particularly now that dch does it by default
[05:16] <Kamion> (though my uch script overrides that to edgy, slightly unfortunately - dunno about yours
[05:16] <Kamion> )
[05:16] <pitti> mvo: done (bug 61684)
[05:16] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 61684 in Ubuntu "Removing any u-desktop depdencency marks all other packages for auto-removal" [Untriaged,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61684
[05:17] <mvo> pitti: thanks, what do you think priority "high"?
[05:17] <ogra> Riddell, thanks so much :)
[05:17] <pitti> mvo: for me at least, I find it highly annoying, but maybe it's not for other people
[05:18] <mvo> the questions was high or critical ;)
[05:18] <pitti> mvo: but it has the milestone tag now, so it'll be on Matt's monitor
[05:18] <pitti> mvo: heh :) high then
[05:19] <mvo> thanks
[05:23] <pitti> mdz: I added a few milestone tags to bugs which I consider beta critical
[05:24] <neo_> Hi@ all! I've got a problem, am I in the right channel to ask for a way to track my error down?
[05:26] <neo_> It is very strange... when I'm hitting ctrl alt Fx , I don't get a console...all I see is a black screen... is there any configuration file or hint you could tell me?
[05:26] <ivoks> neo_: right channel is https://launchpad.net/malone
[05:26] <ivoks> neo_: i'm sure you'll find some duplicates
[05:27] <neo_> thank you very much!!! I'll go a take a look... bye
[05:27] <Kamion> mdz: (for after the meeting) ok to upload Riddell's ubiquity branch? it adds scrolling to the KDE mountpoints page, which is something I've already done for GTK and is needed if you have a lot of partitions to stop the UI resizing itself to be bigger than the screen
[05:28] <Kamion> Riddell: merged, thanks
[05:31] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: the redhat tool for printer GUI seems to work ok, so we'll have add printer functionality in edgy
[05:32] <Gloubiboulga> janimo, great :)
[05:32] <wiz> Will python 2.5 be avaiable in Edgy?
[05:32] <dholbach> wiz: it is
[05:33] <dholbach> wiz:  edgy-changes@lists.ubuntu.com
[05:33] <wiz> niisssse..... (8
[05:34] <Gloubiboulga> janimo, do you have an idea why the i386 alternate iso is still oversized?
[05:36] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: no, I took out at-spi and related gnome bits last week, but looks like it grew back
[05:36] <janimo> I'll look at the list
[05:37] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: python-gnome2 is in
[05:37] <janimo> wonder what put it in and when
[05:38] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: hmm, it may be that recommends are now installe dby default?
[05:38] <janimo> we'll have to ask mvo
[05:38] <Gloubiboulga> ah, yes, maybe
[05:38] <janimo> python-gnpome2 is recommended only by update-manager (which uses gconf python if available)
[05:39] <mvo> hello janimo! I'm in a meeting right now
[05:39] <janimo> so if handling of recommends changed
[05:39] <mvo> can we talk after it?
[05:39] <janimo> mvo I know, no hurry sure :)
[05:39] <Kamion> recommends should only be installed by default for stuff in Section: metapackages
[05:39] <mvo> thanks
[05:39] <mvo> otherwise what Kamion said
[05:40] <janimo> Kamion: hmm then it is something else, as this is Section:gnome
[05:40] <Kamion> janimo: ship:python-gnome2                  | gnome-python                    | ldm
[05:41] <janimo> Kamion: ok, thanks, seems like I don't know what I explcitelly aded to ship :(
[05:41] <Kamion> janimo: i.e. ldm Depends: python-gnome2 and is in your ship seed
[05:41] <janimo> I remember now, it is needed by ldm.
[05:41] <janimo> hmm one more resason to split g-python. I think that ldm only uses the canvas
[05:50] <Gloubiboulga> janimo, cpufreq and cpu-freq are two different plugins
[05:51] <Kamion> pitti: huh, I thought I'd already closed those oem-config bugs, evidently not
[05:51] <Kamion> anyway, closing
[05:51] <lastnode_> imbrandon, you around, mate?
[05:51] <Gloubiboulga> janimo, but they do the same thing I guess, not sure that we need to have both in the archive
[05:51] <pitti> Kamion: yay, one less :)
[05:51] <imbrandon> lastnode_: give me just a few minutes bro
[05:51] <imbrandon> lastnode_: reading in on a meeting atm
[05:51] <lastnode_> imbrandon, sure, we've just got all three of us in #upstream, so ready for a brief chat whenever you are
[05:52] <imbrandon> lastnode_: ok
[05:53] <mjg59> crimsun: I don't seem to be getting any audio on my Intel iMac...
[06:00] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: then it may be that the latter is better
[06:18] <jdong> hey, anyone know if the xvid codec in our mencoder is multithreading-capable?
[06:18] <ogra> fabbione, is there a special key combo in sparc so i could see a bit more stuff in the bootsequence ? 
[06:18] <jdong> it seems to take the threads argument, but even at 8 threads it sticks to only 1 CPU's worth of load
[06:18] <ogra> currently its showing an hourglass and restarts over and over 
[06:18] <Nafallo> jdong: -> slomo_ :-)
[06:18] <fabbione> ogra: uh? hourglass???
[06:18] <ogra> i'd like to look behind that screen
[06:19] <fabbione> ogra: i have never seen stuff like that..
[06:19] <ogra> yes and a little salamander as mouse pointer
[06:19] <fabbione> are you sure that the thinclient is a sparc CPU?
[06:19] <ogra> looks a bit like booting an apple
[06:19] <fabbione> normal sparc goes to OBP
[06:19] <slomo_> jdong: no idea... is our xvid capable to do so? ;)
[06:19] <fabbione> that's like a text promp
[06:19] <fabbione> no, no idea about that
[06:19] <fabbione> never seen anything like that
[06:19] <ogra> hmm, probably they have a non standard thing 
[06:19] <kmr> kamion: thanks for the update to imagemagick, appreciated!
[06:20] <ogra> its only a thin client ... not really something thats usual sparc
[06:20] <fabbione> ogra: if they have a non-standard thingy, you will need to read on that
[06:20] <ogra> right
[06:20] <jdong> slomo_: i don't know, you're the expert :P
[06:20] <Kamion> kmr: no worries
[06:20] <ogra> i was hoping for a key combo like apple has to get into the open firmware prompt
[06:20] <Kamion> syncs are easy, once investigated ;)
[06:20] <fabbione> ogra: stop+a
[06:21] <fabbione> ogra: that's on normal sparc
[06:21] <ogra> i know people booted these clients off the d-i netboot image
[06:21] <fabbione> i don't know that thin client at all
[06:21] <fabbione> sorry
[06:21] <Keybuk> ogra: pancake-waffle-butterfly-f
[06:21] <fabbione> i don't use these kind of toys..
[06:21] <fabbione> only *REAL* hardware
[06:21] <kmr> Kamion: very good, as a debian developer I tried to help a bit with the underlying work to simply the decision to sync
[06:21] <dholbach> can somebody give back libgnomeuimm2.6?
[06:21] <ogra> Keybuk, i find the pancake key, but there is no butterfly one ...
[06:22] <kmr> is there a MOTU channel or other means to draw attention to a bug I filed about a universe package?
[06:22] <Kamion> kmr: yeah, that is definitely helpful, thanks
[06:22] <ogra> fabbione, its a request that we suport them in out ubuntu ltsp ... if it doesnt work thats not the end of the world ...
[06:22] <Kamion> kmr: #ubuntu-motu
[06:22] <ogra> but the desgn is neat, i'd like to use the HW on my desk
[06:22] <fabbione> ogra: yeah. just kidding.. i don't know what they are... sorry
[06:23] <kmr> Kamion: very end of the work very appreciated, thanks for the channel link
[06:23] <ogra> fabbione, apparently they work with a binary image sun offers for installation on linux servers
[06:23] <slomo_> jdong: i don't know :P
[06:24] <fabbione> ogra: can you take it to MountainView?
[06:24] <kmr> s/very end/your end/
[06:24] <jdong> slomo_: I'm playing with it...
[06:24] <ogra> so worst case i could write a downloader package for it that installs and configures it
[06:24] <ogra> fabbione, uh ... i dont like to travel qith much HW to the US ...
[06:24] <ogra> but if whiprush is coming *he* can bring one i guess
[06:24] <fabbione> ogra: ok. i understand that.
[06:24] <ogra> whiprush, ping ? 
[06:24] <ogra> he has plenty of them
[06:25] <whiprush> ogra: pong
[06:25] <ogra> see above
[06:25] <ogra> whiprush, youre coming to mountainview, right ? 
[06:26] <whiprush> yeah
[06:26] <whiprush> I'll bring some
[06:26] <ogra> could you bring one of the sunrays ?
[06:26] <ogra> yeah !
[06:26] <ogra> thanks a lot :)
[06:26] <whiprush> I'll bring as many as I can
[06:26] <jdong> slomo_: grr, needs CVS or 1.2.x builds :-(
[06:26] <fabbione> whiprush: i don't need a dedicated one.. jsut to look what we can do for them
[06:27] <desrt> good morning, hax0rs
[06:27] <jdong> slomo_: and I'm guessing introducing a newer xvid into edgy at this point is a bad idea? ;-)
[06:28] <slomo_> jdong: yes... edgy+1 please :)
[06:29] <jdong> slomo_: hehe, we're already dreaming about edgy+1 :)
[06:29] <fsmw> hi all!
[06:29] <slomo_> jdong: always :)
[06:29] <fsmw> is there a way to make a mirror for an specific dist (eg dapper), instead mirroring the whole repo?
[06:32] <Nafallo> debmirror should work, but this channel is for development. #ubuntu is for support.
[06:32] <Nafallo> fsmw: ^
[06:34] <ogra> dholbach, did you say you would be on the "evo doesnt jump to next message after delete" bug ? its still here 
[06:34] <dholbach> ogra: it's reported upstream
[06:34] <fabbione> these meetings are taking too long
[06:35] <ogra> dholbach, with high importance so we have a chance to see a fix in edgy ? 
[06:35] <dholbach> ogra: i hope we get a fix too
[06:35] <Kamion> mdz: oh, heh, that progress-info-jumps-around bug turned out to be really easy following jdahlin's hint: make it ellipsize, make it expand and fill, make the surrounding hbox fill but not expand, blam, progress info label is magically locked to the size of the progress bar above
[06:36] <ogra> i'll switch to thunderbird if we dont ... it slows me down to much :/
[06:36] <ogra> i can bear a lot annoyances, especially in evo ... but well ... at some point it gets to much ...
[06:37] <dholbach> ogra: thanks :)
[06:37] <Nafallo> hehe
[06:40] <pitti> yay silly objcopy
[06:40] <dholbach> see you later!
[06:43] <jdong> infinity: poke
[06:49] <fabbione> mvo, iwj: ping?
[06:50] <Riddell> pitti: any chance of a language pack update for beta?  getting the kde stock strings fixed would be great
[06:50] <pitti> Riddell: if Mithrandir and mdz are fine with it, sure
[06:50] <fabbione> hem.. unping
[06:51] <pitti> Riddell: oh, dear, the daily langpacks are ages old, there must be something wrong; I'll investigate shortly
[06:52] <Riddell> pitti: let me know if you fix that and I'll test them out to confirm the kde issue is fixed
[06:53] <Nafallo> pitti: oh! I thought that was intentional or something. I could have told you days ago. Will do next time :-).
[06:54] <mdz> pitti: yes, I think an update would be appropriate
[06:54] <mdz> Kamion: oh good
[06:55] <mdz> Kamion: scrolling for kde mountpoints -> OK with me
[06:55] <mdz> tkamppeter: ok, so regarding your freeze exception requests
[07:10] <carlos> Riddell: hi, katapult is also affected with https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kde-i18n/+bug/60049
[07:10] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 60049 in kde-i18n "Import of translations for KDE's desktop-* failed" [Untriaged,Confirmed]  
[07:16] <Kamion> ogra: bug 61688 fixed
[07:16] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 61688 in lsb "[Edgy]  "unbound variable" in /etc/lsb-base-logging.sh" [Untriaged,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61688
[07:24] <pitti> carlos: do you know why the edgy tarballs in your rookery home are so old?
[07:25] <carlos> ?
[07:25] <pitti> carlos: likewise with dapper&co
[07:25] <carlos> those are being updated every day...
[07:25] <pitti> carlos: latest version is from Sept 12
[07:25] <carlos> let me check whether I did a mistake...
[07:25] <pitti> carlos: and edgy is Sept 10
[07:25] <carlos> pitti: ... I did a mistake... :-(
[07:26] <carlos> I was pushing them to the wrong directory...
[07:26] <carlos> let me fix it
[07:28] <carlos> pitti: fixed
[07:29] <pitti> carlos: thanks
[07:29] <carlos> tomorrow the push should work as expected
[07:29] <pitti> ah, so we don't have current tarballs on rookery now?
[07:29] <carlos> pitti: edgy is  another thing, seems like I forgot to move it back to daily snapshots...
[07:29] <pitti> well, tomorrow should be fine
[07:29] <carlos> pitti: we do
[07:30] <carlos> I mean that tomorrow, the updates will go to the right place
[07:41] <ogra> Kamion, thanks :)
[07:43] <pitti> dholbach: gar, opal debian/rules makes me wanting nasty things to it
[07:44] <pitti> dholbach: I'll fix pkg-create-dbgsym to cope with it, but it won't change the fact that opal's -dbg deb is empty
[07:48] <dholbach> pitti: that's ok with me :)
[07:48] <dholbach> pitti: thanks a lot
[07:49] <pitti> I mean, I can fix opal to just not build a -dbg at all, since it is useless anyway
[07:51] <dholbach> as you like it
[07:51] <dholbach> I had no chance to talk to Kilian about it yet
[08:06] <siretart> is main already frozen for beta release?
[08:06] <fabbione> Kamion,  mdz: do we need to start to ask permssion to uploads pkgs in main?
[08:06] <siretart> I'd like to upload a new xine
[08:06] <fabbione> pitti: ping?
[08:06] <fabbione> doko: ping
[08:06] <pitti> fabbione: hey dude
[08:06] <siretart> huhu fabbione, hi pitti 
[08:06] <fabbione> pitti: there is an upgrade bug od cupsys from dapper to edgy. It's a missing C/R somewhere.
[08:07] <mdz> fabbione: I was about to announce the freeze, but uploads are not locked down yet
[08:07] <fabbione> pitti: you should probably take a look at it
[08:07] <pitti> fabbione: thanks for spotting, will do
[08:07] <pitti> fabbione: do you have the output somewhere?
[08:07] <mdz> probably won't be until tomorrow, or perhaps even monday depending on how things go
[08:07] <zyga> pitti: whoah for debug magick!
[08:07] <fabbione> mdz: ok, i have a bug fix for mdadm upgrading from dapper. It's just the way the shell is called. nothing more
[08:07] <pitti> zyga: :)
[08:07] <fabbione> pitti: no sorry.. console-setup did trash my X session during the dist-upgrade
[08:07] <fabbione> pitti: had to kill X to get keyboard back
[08:07] <mdz> fabbione: sounds appropriate for beta.  set the milestone on the bug and go ahead
[08:08] <fabbione> mdz: no bug.. i just found it myself
[08:08] <fabbione> mdz: i was dist upgrading my laptop since i didn't get that far before the meeting
[08:10] <doko_> fabbione: pong
[08:11] <fabbione> doko: are there known issues with python2.4-minimal? it gave me errors dist upgrading from dapper
[08:11] <tkamppeter> mdz, I was for dinner, I am back, you wanted to tell me something about the UVF ERs
[08:11] <mdz> tkamppeter: you asked which ones I had
[08:12] <mdz> tkamppeter: I have only one outstanding, which is foo2zjs received yesterday
[08:12] <fabbione> doko: it seems like it's a missing dependency. It doesn't fail on a fully upgraded system
[08:13] <fabbione> mdz: mdadm fix uploaded.
[08:13] <fabbione> brb
[08:18] <tkamppeter> mdz, so foomatic-db, foomatic-filters, foomatic-db-hpijs, and HPLIP are all approved and uploaded?
[08:20] <fabbione> rodarvus: ping?
[08:23] <mdz> tkamppeter: I have replied to all of the emails I have received from you
[08:23] <mdz> tkamppeter: I do not upload the packages for you; pitti can help with that
[08:23] <fabbione> well this ride wan't too bad
[08:25] <fabbione> mdz: we should probably create a meta bug in LP for dapper -> edgy upgrades
[08:25] <fabbione> mdz: there are a few.. not many
[08:26] <tkamppeter> Riddell, Kamion, was it someone of you talking with me about a printing problem with KDE?
[08:26] <pitti> tkamppeter: yes, they are
[08:27] <pitti> mdz: ^ (FYI)
[08:29] <mdz> fabbione: a tag would be better
[08:29] <mdz> fabbione: also they should have the beta milestone
[08:29] <mdz> since beta will be an upgrade target
[08:29] <fabbione> mdz: ok
[08:31] <fabbione> hmm Frank is already offline
[08:31] <fabbione> what package provides themes for usplash?
[08:32] <fabbione> ubuntu-artwork?
[08:34] <fabbione> oh nevermind there is already a bug filed
[08:37] <Nafallo> doko: ping :-)
[08:44] <lucas> the ruby interpreter still segfaults on powerpc (on the buildd at least)
[08:44] <lucas> I've already mailed infinity twice about it, and once ubuntu-devel. what else should I do, given that I don't have access to a powerpc system ?
[08:45] <fabbione> lucas: coordinate with Riddel
[08:45] <fabbione> he is working on it
[08:45] <lucas> ok
[08:46] <pitti> Mithrandir, mdz: permission to upload a new pkg-create-dbgsym which fixes the opal FTBFS?
[08:49] <mdz> pitti: certainly
[08:49] <fabbione> hmm
[08:49] <fabbione> mvo is offline too...
[08:49] <fabbione> mdz: one question.. all these hacks we are doing to distupgrade from dapper to edgy, like installing new dpkg/apt before the rest of the world..
[08:50] <fabbione> how are we going to reflect that in server tools?
[08:53] <pitti> dholbach: pkg-create-dbgsym 0.14 uploaded, right in time for this cron.daily; so in about an hour we can ask for a give-back of opal
[08:54] <dholbach> and after that a give back of ekiga
[08:54] <dholbach> pitti: enjoy
[08:54] <pitti> dholbach: bah, does that fail as well?
[08:54] <dholbach> it requires opal
[08:54] <pitti> ah
[08:54] <dholbach> opal and pwlib are ... weird :)
[08:54] <pitti> you bet...
[09:02] <tkamppeter> mdz, I do not ask you to upload anything, I have only asked for the current state. Uploads were done by pitti, and doko_.
[09:03] <pitti> tkamppeter: (FYI, you can check this on https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/foomatic-db and similar)
[09:03] <tkamppeter> Riddell: ping
[09:03] <tkamppeter> Kamion: ping
[09:06] <ajmitch> morning all
[09:08] <ajmitch> jdong: 5am in melbourne, you'd be lucky
[09:09] <jdong> infinity: ARRRISE from your eternal sleep!
[09:09] <Treenaks> infernal sleep?
[09:10] <micahcowan> if he arose from it, it could hardly be eternal, now could it? :p
[09:12] <jdong> anyone else have a good explanation why a trivially small package would wait 24 hours and still await building? :P
[09:12] <jdong> other than karma's trying to punish me for my dyslexic QA?
[09:13] <slomo_> jdong: openoffice and build priorities ;)
[09:13] <jdong> slomo_: grr, openoffice
[09:13] <jdong> you guys shoved like 3 through within the past 24 hours :P
[09:14] <Nafallo> no, there where more than 3 :-)
[09:14] <tseng> it isnt really " you guys "
[09:16] <tseng> infinity: could you look at "chroot problem" on beagle 0.2.9-1ubuntu2?
[09:16] <tseng> infinity: amd64, ia64, ppc
[09:16] <tseng> infinity: please
[09:17] <tseng> whatever that means
[09:24] <cbx33> guys...how do I go about installing the smp kernel?
[09:25] <micahcowan> micah prefers the lim[x->5]  1/(x-5) approach. There! Now you're guaranteed to find infinity.
[09:26] <micahcowan> speaking of which: http://immense-world.blogspot.com/2006/09/mathematics-genius.html
[09:26] <Burgwork> micahcowan, that is kind of off topic
[09:27] <micahcowan> Well, it's at least heading in that direction, yes. My apologies.
[09:27] <Burgwork> cbx33, this is -devel, not user support. If you use x86, smp support is built into the standard kernel and enabled upon cpu detection
[09:28] <Nafallo> Burgwork: not just x86 fwiw :-)
[09:28] <cbx33> sorry Burgwork 
[09:28] <Burgwork> Nafallo, yes, but if you have big iron, you need specific kernels for dapper
[09:29] <Nafallo> infinity: where is erlang-nox? :-)
[09:29] <Nafallo> Burgwork: that would be x86 ;-). amd64 and friend have the SMP-stuff as well :-)
[09:29] <Nafallo> Burgwork: that's more my point :-)
[09:31] <Kamion> tkamppeter: yes?
[09:32] <fabbione> good night everybody
[09:32] <fabbione> cya tomorrw
[09:33] <Nafallo> Kamion: maybe you know where erlang-nox is? should have been built after the erlang sync and ejabberd needs it :-).
[09:34] <mdz> pitti: do the ddebs have proper dependencies?
[09:34] <Kamion> Nafallo: version number?
[09:35] <Nafallo> Kamion: 1:11.b.1-1
[09:35] <Kamion> Nafallo: there is no package called erlang-nox in the archive
[09:35] <Kamion> ah, it's in NEW
[09:35] <pitti> mdz: FSVO 'proper', yes; they depend on the exact version of the corresponding deb and don't have any other dependencies
[09:35] <Kamion> Nafallo: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+queue for future reference
[09:36] <Nafallo> Kamion: ah! care to wave it through so that I can close the "please update ejabberd"-bug? :-)
[09:36] <mdz> pitti: I mean, e.g. where a package depends on libraries, does it depend/recommend/suggest the corresponding debug symbols?
[09:36] <pitti> mdz: ah; no, it doesn't
[09:36] <mdz> I think it's appropriate to at least suggest all of the symbols, and in some cases recommend
[09:36] <Kamion> Nafallo: guess what I was doing right after telling you it was in NEW ...
[09:36] <pitti> mdz: I was going to handle that in apport-retrace
[09:36] <mdz> pitti: hmm, interesting
[09:36] <Nafallo> Kamion: thanks! :-)
[09:36] <Kamion> you're welcome
[09:36] <pitti> mdz: suggests: would be appropriate, though, I'll TODO that
[09:37] <pitti> mdz: the more important thing is that I have to Conflicts: to a -dbg, if present
[09:38] <BenC> did lp just die?
[09:38] <tseng> BenC: works for me
[09:38] <ajmitch> gave me issues a few minutes ago
[09:39] <BenC> working now it seems
[09:39] <BenC> went away for about 1 minute
[09:49] <mdz> tkamppeter: btw, it looks like your uploads used an invalid email address in the .changes file.  If you use a correct email address (a confirmed email address in launchpad) you will receive notification when your uploads are accepted
[09:58] <tkamppeter> mdz, I did not do any upload. pitti and doko_ did them. pitti told me that one needs special permissions for uploading.
[09:59] <tkamppeter> Kamion, did you have a problem of printing with KDE? What is exactly your problem?
[09:59] <mdz> tkamppeter: we often use "upload" to refer to the .changes and associated files which are uploaded
[09:59] <mdz> tkamppeter: what I mean is that if you prepare the .changes correctly, and then give it to pitti or doko, you can still receive a notification when it is processed
[09:59] <Kamion> tkamppeter: I don't use KDE, so no, that wasn't me
[09:59] <mdz> tkamppeter: usually this is done by setting the DEBEMAIL environment variable
[10:00] <mdz> tkamppeter: it was Riddell who mentioned a KDE printing issue during the meeting earlier
[10:00] <doko_> mdz: I didn't see  an approval for foo2zjs
[10:01] <Kamion> mdz: bug 61723 often happens to me when I run setupcon from an X terminal (X apparently gets horribly confused by the invasion of /dev/console and throws a wobbly), so if that's happening during upgrade, I think I should beta it
[10:01] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 61723 in console-setup "[PPC]  distupgrade from dapper to edgy kills X keyboard" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61723
[10:02] <tkamppeter> for example foo2zjs_20060625dfsg-2_i386.changes? Do I have to edit the "Changed-by:" field in it so that I get notification?
[10:02] <mdz> Kamion: agreed
[10:02] <mdz> Kamion: I have an idle ppc here if you need help testing
[10:03] <mdz> I think it may even have a fresh dapper on it
[10:03] <Kamion> not for that particular bug, but it may be useful for other things
[10:03] <tkamppeter> Thanks, mdz, have added this variable in my .bashrc
[10:04] <tkamppeter> Riddell, are you here?
[10:07] <mdz> tkamppeter: when you run dpkg-buildpackage, it will put $DEBEMAIL in the right place
[10:07] <tkamppeter> doko_, pitti: mdz has approved the update of foo2zjs.
[10:07] <tkamppeter> mdz, I will see it on my next package build.
[10:08] <pitti> tkamppeter: ah, nice
[10:10] <doko_> tkamppeter: uploaded
[10:14] <agutierr> I have a problem remastering a ubuntu cd: after the isolinux load and search the cdrom drivers, I have the next error: "The CD available is not a Ubuntu cd" :?
[10:17] <desrt> so uh.  the ATI thing is cute.
[10:17] <desrt> i wonder how we're gonna deal with it.
[10:19] <BenC> deal with what?
[10:20] <HiddenWolf> BenC: fglrx now comes in a -legacy edition too
[10:20] <HiddenWolf> desrt: -legacy will only be for cards that are well supported by open drivers, so it shouldn't be too big a deal.
[10:20] <desrt> ya.  time to relive the madwifi thing
[10:20] <desrt> except backwards
[10:21] <desrt> the new ati drivers (fglrx) drop support for a bunch of cards
[10:21] <Burgwork> desrt, aren't closed and semi closed drivers great?
[10:21] <desrt> heh.
[10:22] <desrt> i guess we'll have fglrx and fglrx_og (old generation)
[10:22] <Yagisan> pitti, you here ?
[10:22] <desrt> with _og only enabled for the cards that _require_ it
[10:22] <HiddenWolf> Burgwork: I'm secretly hoping they'll open up the old stuff at least partially. Call me an optimist.
[10:23] <HiddenWolf> desrt: og would only be for pre-9250, which all work fine with open drivers already, so there is no real _need_ for those closed drivers. It's just the upgrade that should be handled.
[10:24] <desrt> fglrx works better than dri in most cases
[10:24] <Yagisan> pitti, O_O -> jamie@doomguy:~/COIT12170_Data_Comms$ *** stack smashing detected ***: /usr/lib/openoffice/program/soffice.bin terminated
[10:24] <HiddenWolf> desrt: but it's open, so you can debug it and fix it and backtrace it. :)
[10:46] <KaiL> Riddell, amarok 1.4.3 is searching a "libvisual-0.4-0", which isn't anywhere :(
[10:52] <JamieBE> Hello, could someone with javascript know-how answer me a really quick question?
[10:52] <JamieBE> ...Please
[10:53] <beuno> sure
[10:53] <beuno> I'll give it a try
[10:54] <sharms> !offtopic
[10:58] <gnomefreak> JamieBE: support questions should be in #ubuntu, #ubuntu+1, #kubuntu, #xubuntu. this channel should be used only for development topics. (im guessing this is what sharms meant by !offtopic) :)
[10:59] <beuno> JamieBE: you can private me if you want to
[10:59] <gnomefreak> ubotu test
[11:00] <gnomefreak> !test
[11:00] <JamieBE> OK, This is a little complicated. I have an ubuntu app - Lodju which is now quite outdated and a little unsupported. What this app does is created HTML pages for information and images you feed it to create a web gallery. It uses python variables within HTML templates that came packaged with it to dynamically generate the complete HTML product. The problem is that in the HTML thumbnails page the code basically produces: Show image one. Show Image two
[11:00] <JamieBE> . Show Image three...all next to eachother and so on... What I want is for 4 columns on images (as I have different resolutions of thumbnails) to sit neatly within a valign="center" table cell. What i can to is to call a new table with tr and td for each image, and then on every multiple of 4 call a <br clear="all"> but I need to generate this as the HTML is build by the app. Hence the javascript idea. I need something along the lines in pseudo code 
[11:00] <JamieBE> of: <script = javascript> variable of integer called "Num1". Set Num1 to %python.value. If Num1 = multiple of 4 (4th table generated) then javascript.write <br clear="all"></script>
[11:01] <gnomefreak> :(
[11:10] <dholbach> can somebody please give back libgnomeuimm2.6?
[11:16] <tkamppeter> doko_, thanks for the upload, I am closing some more bugs now.
[11:18] <JamieBE> In Javascript is there a way of saying "If this number is a multiple of 4 then..."
[11:20] <Kamion> use the % operator, as in many other languages
[11:21] <Kamion> (number % 4) will be zero if number is a multiple of 4
[11:21] <JamieBE> Night kamion
[11:38] <mdz> doko: when did oo.o start using bzip2?  I don't see it in the changelog
[12:03] <Riddell> mdz: are we frozen yet?
[12:05] <Nafallo> Riddell: mail on ubuntu-devel-announce :-)
[12:06] <Nafallo> that's a yes btw ;-)
[12:07] <beuno> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2006-September/000196.html
[12:07] <mdz> Riddell: right on schedule
[12:07] <mdz> Riddell: though we're a little bit slushy
[12:08] <mdz> I still wouldn't recommend any swimming
[12:08] <Riddell> mdz: right, I have a slightly altered usplash from kwwii to upload and kubuntu-docs if that's ok
[12:09] <mdz> Riddell: yep