[12:09] <ajmitch> hi mdz 
[12:10] <mdz> hi
[12:20] <jdub> untz untz untz
[12:23] <gnomefreak> when was gksudo symlinked to gksu?
[12:24] <gnomefreak> last i remember gksu = "su password" and gksudo "sudo password"
[12:25] <jdub> infinity, pitti: WOOHOOO!
[12:25] <pitti> jdub: :)
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[01:53] <Riddell> mdz: I'd like to upload gs-esp to fix a failed compile, and I'd also like to move kdm to start at the same init level as gdm which is a regretion from dapper
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[02:35] <jdong> infinity: poke......
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[02:44] <crimsun> mjg59: I have some sigmatel diffs enqueued that I need to merge, bumping their priority
[02:44] <crimsun> (sorry, life being a bit cumbersome atm)
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[03:04] <leonel> Hello  Is there  a release  date for Edgy release   on the wiki  says    around  october 
[03:04] <crimsun> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyReleaseSchedule
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[03:04] <jdub> EdgyReleaseSchedule on the wiki
[03:05] <leonel> thanks  
[03:06] <bddebian> Howdy folks
[03:08] <mdz> Riddell: both sound fine
[03:08] <tritium> hi bddebian 
[03:08] <bddebian> tritium!!
[03:08] <bddebian> How you been man?
[03:08] <tritium> dude, I had kidney stones :(
[03:08] <mdz> Riddell: just be conservative until uploads are locked down for real
[03:09] <bddebian> tritium: Oh man, that sucks :-(
[03:09] <tritium> yeah, but I was happy to see upon my recovery that mythtv 0.20 is in edgy ;)
[03:09] <bddebian> Heh
[03:10] <tritium> I assume you had a part in that, so thanks :)
[03:10] <bddebian> Nah, I have no part in anything :-)
[03:11] <tritium> Don't give me that!  Not when I'm on bed rest.
[03:12] <bddebian> tritium: And to think you are the one that really got me started down this dark path! :-)
[03:12] <tritium> Yes, but now _you_ are the master, and I am but the learner.
[03:13] <bddebian> Master?  HAH.  bater maybe ;-P
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[03:48] <slomo> Kamion: hm, didn't you want to handle main syncs before beta freeze? i ask because of bug #56073 which is imho important
[03:48] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 56073 in xfsprogs "Include XFS corruption fix from 2.6.17.7" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/56073
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[03:57] <mjg59> crimsun: Cool - send me a copy if you want testing?
[03:58] <crimsun> mjg59: roger.
[03:58] <Burgundavia> mjg59: is that battery information we spoke about useful?
[03:59] <mjg59> Burgundavia: If you stick it somewhere, I'll take a look
[04:00] <Burgundavia> http://pastebin.ca/179281
[04:04] <Burgundavia> mjg59: &
[04:05] <mjg59> Burgundavia: On battery?
[04:05] <Burgundavia> on AC
[04:05] <mjg59> Sorry, can you do it on battery?
[04:05] <mjg59> Wait a few seconds afterwards
[04:07] <Burgundavia> http://pastebin.ca/179287
[04:08] <mjg59> Burgundavia: Hm. present rate never shows anything?
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[04:08] <Burgundavia> mjg59: nope
[04:09] <Burgundavia> probably why HAL/gpm have never given me accurate numbers
[04:09] <mjg59> 4300mAh is a perfectly reasonable capacity
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[04:10] <mjg59> So if it's draining fast, it's because we're actually drawing that much power
[04:10] <Burgundavia> yep
[04:10] <mjg59> (or the battery is just lying through its teeth)
[04:10] <Burgundavia> I am interested to see what it does when that RH polling stuff hits
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[06:00] <fabbione> morning
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[06:29] <fabbione> canybody awake?
[06:29] <fabbione> -c
[06:29] <fabbione> it seems like https is broken in the last FF update.. can someone please check LP if it has been reported?
[06:29] <fabbione> or a workaround available?
[06:32] <Toadstool> fabbione: bug 61660, no workaround :/
[06:32] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 61660 in firefox "https doesn't work." [Untriaged,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61660
[06:32] <fabbione> Toadstool: thanks
[06:32] <Fujitsu> fabbione, did you open the link from Thunderbird?
[06:32] <Fujitsu> Because that's been causing issues for some time...
[06:32] <fabbione> Fujitsu: no.. 
[06:34] <Toadstool> there are a few "firefox: https not working" bugs on LP but not enough info to determine whether these are duplicates...
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[06:56] <Fujitsu> fabbione, links! :P
=== fabbione larts Fujitsu with links and launchpad
[06:57] <Fujitsu> I think I tried that a while back...
[06:58] <fabbione> i am not in the mood to file bugs with links :) not at 7 am
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[06:58] <Fujitsu> A bit silly to feel adventurous the day after BetaFreeze.
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[07:00] <Treenaks> well, adventurous could mean filing bugs with links :P
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[07:29] <dholbach> good morning
[07:31] <jdub> GOOD MORNING FREEDOM DHOLBACHS!
[07:31] <dholbach> YO JEFF! HOW ARE YOU?
[07:32] <jdub> A LITTLE BIT HOARSE, ACTUALLY
[07:32] <dholbach> . o O { I CAN IMAGINE }
=== dholbach HUGS JDUB
[07:37] <dholbach> . o O { "and now my throat hurts" }
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[07:51] <_ion> foomatic-db (in main) seems to depend on linuxprinting.org-ppds (in universe).
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[08:06] <doko_> infinity, Kamion, mdz: please process the openoffice.org and openoffice.org-l10n binaries in NEW
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[08:10] <Kagou> hi
[08:10] <Fujitsu> doko, does this mean we'll have a new OOo, with working GNOME file-browsers, shortly?
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[08:42] <Mithrandir> mdz: the date for the beta milestone in LP seems wrong.  It says 2006-10-19 (which is RC), not 2006-09-28.
[08:43] <Mithrandir> mdz: I'm changing it, if I'm wrong, do of course feel free to change it back. :-)
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=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:Keybuk] : Ubuntu Development (not support, even with edgy) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs | 6.06.1 released | Beta Freeze in effect
[08:48] <Mithrandir> hi Scott
[08:48] <Keybuk> morning
[08:48] <Keybuk> hoes goes it?
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[08:49] <Mithrandir> a bit of a slow morning here
[08:49] <agutierr> I have the problem: "The cd available not is a ubuntu cd" remastering a dapper cd. Someone can help  me? Thanks.
[08:49] <dholbach> hi Scott - hi Tollef
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[08:50] <Mithrandir> hi Daniel!
[08:50] <Mithrandir> dholbach: can you or Seb grab https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/control-center/+bug/59217 ?  (As in, assign it to one of you)
[08:50] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 59217 in control-center "[Edgy]  gnome-settings-daemon acting up" [High,Confirmed]  
[08:50] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: tell me about it :-/  my brain seems to have reached maximum mount count
[08:51] <dholbach> Mithrandir: I'll talk to Sb about it - as he's one-tenth upstream I'd think it's his domain ;)
[08:52] <Mithrandir> dholbach: sure, I just want the beta blockers list to show who's responsible for fixing stuff too.
[08:53] <Mithrandir> on https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-6.10-beta , is the sorting-by-clicking-column header only spectacularly broken for me, or is it for everybody else too?
[08:55] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: I didn't think Malone supported that?
[08:56] <Keybuk> oh, maybe it does, but oddly
[08:58] <Fujitsu> Mithrandir, unless it's meant to randomly assort, it's broken.
[09:00] <Mithrandir> Fujitsu: I assume it's not meant to do that, no.
[09:00] <Fujitsu> You never know...
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[09:02] <Kamion> slomo: ok, I'll do that this morning
[09:02] <pitti> Good morning
[09:02] <Kamion> agutierr: bet you forgot to copy over the .disk directory
[09:03] <agutierr> yes
[09:03] <agutierr> it is
[09:03] <agutierr> :_(
[09:03] <agutierr> thanks :-)
[09:03] <Kamion> common mistake :)
=== pitti discovers a bad beta-blocker bug: firefox still says '6.06 Dapper'...
[09:10] <Mithrandir> pitti: please file the bug and target it for beta.
[09:10] <Fujitsu> pitti, I noticed a bug this morning targeted for Hoary Preview, it was about the Firefox start page still being Warty's :P
[09:10] <Mithrandir> Fujitsu: you can close that bug. :-)
[09:10] <Fujitsu> It's /long/ closed :)
[09:11] <Mithrandir> ah, ok
[09:11] <fabbione> you are lucky that FF works for you :)
[09:11] <fabbione> https is busted here
[09:11] <pitti> Mithrandir: just did that
[09:11] <Kamion> somebody should go through ReleaseChecklist
[09:12] <Mithrandir> fabbione: try moveing extensions.cache from your profile directory out of the way.
[09:12] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I'll do it once I've trawled my nightly emails.
[09:12] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I guess you have enough ubiquity/d-i stuff on your plate that you don't want to have to RM as well?
[09:13] <fabbione> Mithrandir: there is no extension.cache ?
[09:13] <pitti> Kamion: Jeff Bailey suggested to urgently update tzdata, and mdz approved it 'as long as it doesn't effect the installer'; in a way it does (well, updated timezones), what do you think about it? shall I update now or after beta?
[09:13] <Mithrandir> fabbione: sure?  In your ~/.mozilla/firefox/$garbledstring/ ?
[09:13] <fabbione> oh found it
[09:13] <fabbione> i was expecting a dir
[09:13] <Mithrandir> fabbione: just try moving it out of the way; this sounds like a firefox bug since I saw the same yesterday
[09:14] <fabbione> yeps.. this seems to work!
[09:14] <Fujitsu> Yay :)
[09:14] <Mithrandir> fabbione: cool.  Feel like filing a bug on firefox and subscribing me too to it?
[09:14] <fabbione> i think there is one already.. but let me check and blabla
[09:18] <fabbione> Mithrandir: #61660
[09:18] <fabbione> Ubugtu: but #61660
[09:19] <fabbione> feh
[09:19] <fabbione> Ubugtu: bug #61660
[09:19] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 61660 in firefox "https doesn't work." [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61660
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[09:22] <Mithrandir> yeah, looks like the same bug.
[09:23] <fabbione> it is
=== fabbione hugs lvm
[09:23] <Fujitsu> ?
[09:24] <fabbione> lvextend -L+10G /dev/mofo/ubuntu-cd  
[09:24] <fabbione>   Extending logical volume ubuntu-cd to 35.00 GB
[09:24] <fabbione>   Logical volume ubuntu-cd successfully resized
[09:24] <fabbione> i just did run out of space on a device :)
[09:24] <fabbione> there.. zack fixed
[09:24] <Fujitsu> Yep, I love that :)
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[09:28] <Kamion> Mithrandir: not sure - willing to do big chunks of RM, but moving house means there's a point where I may be difficult to contact at strange hours
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[09:29] <Kamion> pitti: hmm, are there any big timezone changes? tzsetup might need to be tweaked
[09:29] <Kamion> only really if timezones have merged or split, not just DST tweaks
[09:34] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I'm fine with RM-ing so unless you want to..
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[09:36] <Kamion> that's fine by me, thanks
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[09:46] <pitti> Kamion: some new TZ aliases, some added timezones, some new DST rules, and I soptted one removed timezone which is now subsumed by another one
[09:48] <Kamion> can you e-mail me the details and I'll see if tzsetup needs any changes?
[09:48] <pitti> Kamion: sure
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[09:48] <pitti> Kamion: diff -Nur between the two data sets, with comment changes removed?
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[09:54] <pitti> Kamion: mailed
[09:55] <tepsipakki> what's taking so long with the flashplugin-nonfree for dapper-backports?=
[09:55] <tepsipakki> it's still not built
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[09:59] <devilsadvocate> hello
[09:59] <mdz> Mithrandir: you are correct re: the beta date
[09:59] <mdz> Mithrandir: in LP
[10:00] <devilsadvocate> i realize this is probably the wrong place to ask this, but can someone tell me how the ubuntu xorg is different from debians?
[10:00] <devilsadvocate> as in ... how ubuntu's 7.0 works with the intel945 while debian's experimental only does...
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[10:01] <fabbione> Dear glibc.. please build faster
[10:02] <Mithrandir> fabbione: I hope you're using ccache?
[10:02] <fabbione> Mithrandir: new gcc.. bye bye ccache
[10:02] <Mithrandir> ah. :-)
[10:03] <fabbione> even on a 24 CPU it's taking too long
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[10:04] <fabbione> the best is that i am building only to understand why #DEBHELPER# is not replaced properly in libc6-opt on sparc
[10:04] <fabbione> while it works on i386
[10:05] <Fujitsu> How long has it been?
[10:05] <fabbione> how long what?
[10:05] <fabbione> the build
[10:05] <fabbione> ?
[10:05] <tepsipakki> who handles backport-builds?
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[10:07] <Fujitsu> fabbione, the build, yes.
[10:07] <fabbione> Fujitsu: about 30 minutes.. 
[10:07] <fabbione> it will need another 40 more or les
[10:07] <fabbione> +s
[10:07] <Fujitsu> On 24 CPUs!? That's... wow.
[10:07] <fabbione> Fujitsu: glibc is built 6 times on sparc
[10:08] <fabbione> that's why it takes so long
[10:08] <Fujitsu> Why so many?
[10:08] <[MaKuBeX] > Visit http://www.omgema.lt  its good . Have a nice day!
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[10:08] <fabbione> sparc sparc64 sparcv9v sparcv9b sparc64b and sparc64v
[10:08] <fabbione> different optimizations level
[10:08] <fabbione> multi arch
[10:08] <fabbione> etc.
[10:08] <Fujitsu> Aha.
[10:08] <Fujitsu> Ouch.
[10:08] <tepsipakki> fine, I'll build flasplugin-nonfree locally
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[10:28] <Mithrandir> hmm, libgl1-mesa-glx and libgl1-mesa-swx11 are both part of ubuntu-desktop.  That looks.. wrong.
[10:28] <Mithrandir> I presume we should add libgl1-mesa-glx to the germinate workarounds bit of the seeds.
[10:29] <Mithrandir> Kamion: ^^ ?
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[10:41] <pitti> dholbach: do you have an idea why /usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home/index.html does not belong to any package any more?
[10:41] <pitti> dholbach: is it generated in a postinst or so?
[10:42] <dholbach> pitti: um? it should be part of ubuntu-docs
[10:42] <seb128> pitti: it's an alternative
[10:43] <pitti> ubuntu-docs has /usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home/firefox-index.html
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[10:46] <dholbach> hellas mvo
=== Keybuk sticks killev into cron.hourl
[10:47] <seb128> pitti: did you read what I said :p
[10:47] <pitti> yes, I did
[10:47] <seb128> alternative are supposed to be owned by the package?
[10:47] <seb128> the alternative is created by the postinst
[10:48] <pitti> seb128: yes, I just read it too late, sorry :)
[10:48] <dalfz> could someone please update package kile? current package is v1.8, 1.9 has been out of ages
[10:48] <seb128> pitti: ah, k, np :)
[10:48] <seb128> pitti: I was wondering if I was saying something wrong ;)
[10:48] <pitti> seb128: no, you are perfectly right of course :)
=== pitti grabs more tee
[10:48] <pitti> tea, too
[10:48] <Fujitsu> dalfz, 1.9 is in Edgy.
[10:49] <mvo> hey dholbach
[10:49] <fabbione> mvo: hey dude
[10:49] <mvo> hey fabbione!
[10:50] <dalfz> Fujitsu, 1.8 isn't exactly stable either, so i suppose 1.9 could be in regular repos :)
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[11:02] <Mithrandir> mvo: yo.  You needed to talk with me about g-a-i thingamob updates for milestones?
[11:04] <Kamion> Mithrandir: libgl1-mesa-glx> yeah, that might unfortunately be necessary
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[11:06] <mvo> Mithrandir: right. I would like to update the desktop files/icons in g-a-i. is that ok? I want to do it today. when it is done I can post a debdiff (that is going to be quite long ;)
[11:07] <Mithrandir> mvo: I think what mdz meant was in relation to milestones.  What's the procedure for updating the files/icons?
[11:07] <mvo> Mithrandir: do you already use apt for the livefs build thing?
[11:07] <Mithrandir> mvo: yes, we use apt-get.
[11:07] <mvo> cool!
[11:08] <mvo> the procedure is to run a desktopfile/icon extract script on the complete archive and put the result (moduleo blacklists) into the bzr archive
[11:09] <Mithrandir> mvo: ok.  Can you document that somewhere on the wiki so I can link to it (as well as add a bullet point saying "poke mvo about g-a-i desktop/icons, if that fails, follow [this]  procedure")
[11:09] <Mithrandir> (please)
[11:09] <Mithrandir> afk, food
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[11:10] <mvo> Mithrandir: ok, will do that
[11:12] <dalfz> I have one table with two slim but high tabulars, that i want to place on the side of each other. how should i do accomplish that?
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[11:15] <Nafallo> infinity: can you kick mplayer 2:0.99+1.0pre8-0ubuntu5 amd64 for me?
[11:15] <Nafallo> infinity: please :-)
[11:16] <dalfz> ops, wrong chan sorry :)
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[11:19] <hunger> synaptic recommends deborphan which claims to be deprecated. Should I file a bug about that?
[11:19] <Kamion> where does deborphan claim to be deprecated?
[11:20] <hunger> Kamion: Oh, sorry, you are right.
[11:20] <hunger> Kamion: I confused deborphan with debfoster! The later is deprecated.
[11:21] <Kamion> ah
[11:21] <hunger> aptitude has all the functionality of debfoster now... so debfoster development was stopped.
=== hunger wonders whether debfoster is still in active development.
=== Nafallo wonders who will build i386 kernels first, his server or the buildd ;-)
[11:24] <Nafallo> Kamion: hi! what do you think about the patch in bug #61173? might be beta-material? :-)
[11:24] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 61173 in mdadm "boot script returns error "fail" if no raids are configured" [Untriaged,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61173
[11:28] <Kamion> Nafallo: perhaps you should ask somebody who actually knows about RAID
[11:28] <madduck> Nafallo: how can such a patch be beta?
[11:28] <Kamion> madduck: he means a candidate for our upcoming beta release
[11:29] <madduck> ah
[11:29] <Nafallo> right :-)
[11:29] <fabbione> Nafallo: that patch is pointless IMHO
[11:29] <fabbione> it's only a matter of aestethic
[11:30] <fabbione> if raid subsystem is not there, mdadm has all the rights to report a fail
[11:30] <Nafallo> fabbione: indeed. lvm2 pulls in mdadm, so I always have that failing on me. just lucks bad :-).
[11:30] <Nafallo> s/lucks/looks/
[11:30] <fabbione> lvm2 ?
[11:30] <madduck> why does lvm2 pull in mdadm?
[11:31] <Nafallo> well, that's another question ;-)
[11:31] <madduck> fabbione: i agree. it's not really a patch to be considered, imho.
=== Nafallo investigates.
[11:31] <madduck> fabbione: btw: what was the cause for you removing set -u in ubuntu4 ?
[11:31] <fabbione> lvm2 doesn't pull in mdadm
[11:31] <fabbione> madduck: /bin/sh -> dash
[11:31] <Nafallo> fabbione: lvm2 -> lvm-common -> mdadm
[11:31] <fabbione> -u fails somewhere in lsb scripts
[11:31] <madduck> fabbione: i use dash fir /bin/sh and see no problems.
[11:31] <madduck> fabbione: aha...
[11:32] <janimo> Kamion: can you please let python-cups binaries into the pool, and review system-config-printer (NEW) when you have time? I'd like to have those in main for beta. thanks
[11:32] <fabbione> Nafallo: uh weird.. but i can see it...
[11:32] <Keybuk> fabbione: didn't Kamion fix that bug?
[11:32] <fabbione> i don't know the rationale for that
[11:32] <fabbione> Keybuk: i saw it yesterday on ppc
[11:32] <fabbione> something about loop: not being set or defined
[11:32] <Keybuk> fabbione: he fixed it yesterday evening
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[11:32] <Keybuk> yes, definitely the bug Kamion fixed
[11:32] <fabbione> feeeh
[11:32] <fabbione> ok
[11:32] <fabbione> well
[11:32] <Nafallo> I wonder why that dep is there... *checks changelog*
[11:33] <fabbione> madduck: what was the rationale for using -u anyway?
[11:33] <janimo> Kamion: is the stacked livefs feature implemented? You said a while ago that could be used for selectively adding the a11y packages in a xubuntu desktop
[11:33] <fabbione> madduck: i can revert my change, that's nothing you need to worry about.. just curious
[11:34] <fabbione> Nafallo: i don't see any real reason for that Depends
[11:34] <fabbione> Nafallo: can you?
[11:34] <Nafallo> fabbione: me neither.
[11:34] <Nafallo> can't find anything in the changelog either.
[11:35] <Nafallo> fabbione: maybe we should drop it and see what breaks? ;-)
[11:35] <fabbione> Nafallo: not at beta release.. no
[11:35] <fabbione> Nafallo: it has been there for ages for what i can see.. it can stay there
[11:35] <fabbione> it's of no harm
[11:36] <Nafallo> except the damn fail-message ;-)
[11:36] <Keybuk> janimo: I'm actually looking at system-config-printer right now
[11:36] <Keybuk> didn't I reject python-cups yesterday?
[11:36] <Keybuk> or maybe I accepted it
[11:37] <Keybuk> there's NEW binaries, so I guess I accepted it ;)
[11:38] <fabbione> madduck: well i understand what -u does, but is it really required to run mdadm init stuff?
[11:38] <Keybuk> janimo: you're supposed to delete the "now look at the other files" comment from the debian/copyright template
[11:39] <fabbione> Keybuk: funny.. Kamion uploaded the fix 40 minutes before my upload.. 
[11:39] <fabbione> that's why i saw the bug too
[11:40] <Keybuk> fabbione: yeah, doko was probably still DoS'ing the buildds ;)
[11:40] <fabbione> binary was not available yet
[11:40] <fabbione> Keybuk: ROFL
[11:40] <Nafallo> Keybuk: yea, and now BenC took over :-P
[11:40] <Nafallo> Keybuk: oh! can you kick builds? :-)
[11:41] <Keybuk> Nafallo: he did?
[11:41] <Nafallo> Keybuk: new kernel etc... :-)
[11:41] <Hobbsee> what, again?
[11:41] <Keybuk> Nafallo: that's not a DoS, that's just a build
[11:41] <Hobbsee> excellent, i wonder if X will work with this kernel
[11:41] <Keybuk> doko uploaded four or five consecutive versions of openoffice ;)  so multiple buildds were working on them
[11:41] <Keybuk> Nafallo: I can kick builds
[11:42] <Keybuk> though infinity has very large toes, and I prefer not to stamp on them too often
[11:42] <Nafallo> Keybuk: can you kick mplayer 2:0.99+1.0pre8-0ubuntu5 amd64 for me please? :-)
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[11:43] <Nafallo> Keybuk: I think that build got a gcc that have been fixed since :-).
[11:44] <Nafallo> fabbione: how about I build a lvm-common without the dep and ask people to try it out without mdadm on the bug-report? :-)
[11:44] <Keybuk> Nafallo: BZZT
[11:44] <Keybuk> nope, that's a good and proper FTBFS
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[11:45] <fabbione> Nafallo:ah i found it
[11:45] <fabbione> Nafallo: i think..
[11:45] <fabbione> hold on
[11:45] <Nafallo> Keybuk: gaah. what do I do about it then :-P? I didn't even touch that code in the last upload ;-).
[11:45] <Keybuk> Nafallo: fix it?
[11:46] <fabbione> Nafallo: it's for initramfs
[11:46] <fabbione> Nafallo: lvm-common has a PREREQ set on md for initramfs exec seq
[11:46] <Nafallo> Keybuk: I don't know assembler that well and probably need an amd64 to try it out :-).
[11:46] <fabbione> to ensure that md is called before lvm
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[11:46] <fabbione> Nafallo: so no.. we can't drop the Depends
[11:46] <Keybuk> fabbione: I thought infinity fixed initramfs so you could do an ordering depend without requiring the other script be there
[11:47] <Nafallo> fabbione: hmm, sounds evil. maybe we should find an alternative solution to that :-).
[11:47] <fabbione> Keybuk: if he did, lvm2 script has not been updated.. 
[11:47] <janimo> Keybuk: thanks for reviewing. I did not notice the comments I should delete, it was separated by the rest of the text by two blank lines, looked like a complete page to me :)
[11:47] <fabbione> Keybuk: and at beta stage i am not happy to change it
[11:47] <Keybuk> fabbione: nobody touches lvm for fear of catching something nasty
[11:47] <fabbione> Nafallo: edgy+1
[11:47] <Nafallo> fabbione: yea, but I can still work on it now ;-)
[11:47] <fabbione> Keybuk: is that why my skin is melting?
[11:47] <janimo> Keybuk: do I make a new upload with same version but with those comments removed?
[11:48] <jdub> Keybuk: lvm is precisely what happened to lca2006!
[11:48] <Keybuk> janimo: no, just fix the next one?
[11:48] <Keybuk> jdub: hmm?
[11:48] <janimo> Keybuk: ok, thanks
[11:48] <Nafallo> fabbione: I'll follow up to the bug-report in the meantime :-)
[11:48] <fabbione> jdub: ???
[11:48] <jdub> Keybuk: vomiting, sweating, fainting -- LVM!
[11:48] <dholbach> Kamion: am I ok to upload a new human-icon-theme? (added icons, fixes three bugs)
[11:49] <Keybuk> jdub: was there a plague?
[11:50] <fabbione> jdub: it sounds like you want to take over lvm2 maintainance :)
=== Nafallo assigns the bug to himself :-)
[11:51] <Nafallo> if that's okey :-)
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[11:54] <Kamion> janimo: stacked livefs> talk to infinity about that
[11:54] <Keybuk> Overriding ichthux-artwork-usplash_1:6.10-1 (universe/kde/OPTIONAL)
[11:54] <Keybuk> ... I'm reminded of the original "example" warty artwork
[11:54] <Kamion> oh, I was just doing ichthux
[11:54] <jdub> ha ha
[11:54] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: it's not Tuesday today. ;-P
[11:54] <Kamion> hence why it showed up as universe already for you
[11:55] <Kamion> dholbach: yes, if you're being conservative
=== Nafallo tickles Mithrandir :-)
[11:55] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: it is in my timezone ;)
[11:55] <Nafallo> lol
[11:55] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: your timezone is broken. :-)
=== Hobbsee tickles Mithrandir 
[11:55] <Nafallo> :-)
=== Hobbsee stomps on Mithrandir's feet
[11:55] <dholbach> Kamion: thanks
=== Mithrandir jumped away already
[11:56] <Nafallo> Hobbsee: yay! team work! :-)
[11:56] <Hobbsee> hehe
=== Mithrandir tickles Nafallo and Hobbsee back
[11:56] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: no you didnt.  you jumped towards me
=== Nafallo ties Mithrandir's feet with Dreyfus ;-)
[11:56] <Keybuk> actually, I was just doing the binaries that I NEW'd the sources for on Tuesday
[11:57] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: actually, I just pulled my feet up and put them underneath me on the chair.
[11:57] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: heh, excuses excuses :P
[11:57] <Fujitsu> There are still a lot of sources in NEW... *hint hint*
[11:57] <Fujitsu> :P
[11:57] <Keybuk> Fujitsu: there's not many
[11:58] <Kamion> phrases like "hint hint" do *so* motivate me, I must say :P
[11:58] <Keybuk> the only thing that's been in there longer than a week is something that scared me slightly
[11:58] <Keybuk> so I put it to one side for later
=== Mithrandir gives Kamion a pint of ale to help his motivation.
[11:59] <Fujitsu> There's convertall that's been there just a couple of days, after sitting there for two weeks only to be rejecting 'cause I managed to stuff up debian/copyright. I don't know how I managed that :(
[11:59] <Fujitsu> *rejected
[11:59] <Keybuk> it wasn't in there for two weeks
[11:59] <Kamion>    97054 | S- | convertall           | 0.3.1-0ubuntu1       | 24 hours
=== Kamion is not concerned about that particular response time
[11:59] <Keybuk> it was in there for 8 days, iirc
[11:59] <Fujitsu> The previous one...
[11:59] <Fujitsu> Hm.
=== Fujitsu checks.
[12:00] <Keybuk> I can probably still scroll up and give you the figure ;)
[12:00] <Mithrandir> mvo: I'm looking at ReleaseChecklist and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CodeNamesToVersionNumbers ; there it says we should change update-manager, including previous version's -updates.  Do you know what needs to be done?
[12:00] <madduck> fabbione: i just use -u for everything, just like use strict in Perl
[12:00] <Fujitsu> 9 days, I think. Oops.
[12:00] <madduck> forces me to anticipate everything.
[12:00] <Kamion> pitti: new openoffice.org-l10n adds openoffice.org-l10n-ka and openoffice.org-l10n-pt; do you need to update language-support-* to match?
[12:01] <pitti> Kamion: yes, would be nice to do that; I can upload immediately
[12:01] <Keybuk> Fujitsu: and it was only in there that long because the initial quick check failed, and I put it aside for later
[12:01] <Fujitsu> Ah, OK.
[12:01] <fabbione> does anybody have a dapper machine handy?
[12:01] <Keybuk> Kamion: hmm, libburn appears to have lost its soname
[12:01] <Fujitsu> I didn't things generally sat around for that long :)
[12:01] <fabbione> i need the output from dpkg -p gfs-tools
[12:02] <Keybuk> Fujitsu: things in the NEW queue will normally be processed within one week
[12:02] <janimo> dholbach: hi, do you know if garnacho is around these days?
[12:02] <Fujitsu> Keybuk, I thought that was about it...
[12:02] <dholbach> janimo: I haven't talked to him for a while
[12:02] <Kamion> Keybuk: I'll skip it for now
[12:03] <Fujitsu> fabbione, said package is somewhat absent.
[12:03] <Kamion> pitti: you might want to audit the whole lot - I know we don't always remember to tell you about such changes
[12:03] <pitti> Kamion: ok, I'll go over it
[12:03] <fabbione> Fujitsu: it's in main... i know that for a fact
[12:03] <pitti> Kamion: while I'm at it, may I also add ttf-nafees to l-s-ur? it's an urdu font, trivial, I approved the MIR a while ago
[12:04] <pitti> Kamion: but it would need main promotion
[12:04] <Kamion> Fujitsu: if you haven't ever run 'dselect update', 'dpkg -p' won't work for you.
[12:04] <Kamion> pitti: sure, I'll do the MIR in a moment
[12:04] <Fujitsu> Ah, that'd do it.
[12:04] <Kamion> pitti: do you know of any Dzongkha fonts, BTW?
[12:04] <pitti> Kamion: no, are there any we could add?
[12:05] <Kamion> dunno - I was wondering about it for ubiquity
[12:05] <fabbione> Fujitsu: nevermind.. i got the output
[12:05] <Keybuk> Kamion: oh, and watch out for any really new binaries ... the i386 buildd is lagging
[12:05] <Kamion> it's visible on the first ubiquity screen that there's a missing font
[12:05] <Fujitsu> fabbione, OK.
[12:05] <Nafallo> Keybuk: hehe, the poor machines are DDoS'd ;-)
[12:07] <pitti> Kamion: indeed, there are six new l10n and 8 new help OO.o packages, I'll add them as well
[12:08] <Kamion> ttf-nafees promoted
[12:12] <mvo> Mithrandir: can you please give me the url of your milestone checklist (or where I should document how the g-a-i desktop files are generated)?
[12:12] <Mithrandir> mvo: MilestoneRhythm on the wiki
[12:13] <Mithrandir> mvo: if the procedure for generating new g-a-i desktop files is long, please make a new page and link to it from MilestoneRhythm.
[12:14] <mvo> Mithrandir: thanks
[12:15] <pitti> Kamion: there would be thee NEW language-support packages, if that's fine
[12:17] <pitti> Kamion: (oh, only two)
[12:17] <pitti> Kamion: all uploaded now
[12:17] <Kamion> pitti: that's ok
[12:19] <doko_> tkamppeter, Kamion: due to the dependency of foomatic-db on linuxprinting.org-ppds, the CD's will increase by 13,5MB. Is this dependency really necessary?
[12:19] <Keybuk> Description: the power of "find" with the versatility of "grep"
[12:19] <Keybuk> ...so, a bit like "find | xargs grep" then?
[12:20] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: or just grep and zsh.
[12:20] <jdub> Keybuk: $ apt-cache search powerful | wc -l
[12:20] <jdub> 486
[12:20] <Keybuk> jdub: ironic
[12:20] <jdub> ^ 8==============D
[12:20] <Mithrandir> jdub: 486-es aren't powerful.
[12:21] <Mithrandir> :-P
[12:21] <Keybuk> if only we could remove all the duplicated or pointless cruft from the archive
[12:21] <pitti> carlos: when do your langpack cronjobs trigger?
[12:21] <jdub> $ apt-cache search flexible | wc -l
[12:21] <jdub> 355
[12:21] <Keybuk> quest scott% apt-cache search next generation | wc -l
[12:21] <Keybuk> 34
[12:21] <jdub> $ apt-cache search loving | wc -l
[12:21] <jdub> 3
[12:21] <jdub> ^ what's wrong with software
[12:21] <pitti> $ acs advanced|wc -l
[12:21] <pitti> 318
[12:22] <doko_> $ apt-cache search magic | wc -l
[12:22] <doko_> 143
[12:22] <pitti> it doesn't love you, but it's advanced
[12:22] <Mithrandir> : tfheen@golem ~ > apt-cache search slow | wc -l
[12:22] <Mithrandir> 86
[12:22] <Mithrandir> : tfheen@golem ~ > apt-cache search buggy | wc -l
[12:22] <Mithrandir> 13
[12:22] <Mithrandir> : tfheen@golem ~ > apt-cache search security hole | wc -l
[12:22] <Mithrandir> 3
[12:22] <pitti> oh, '73' for obsolete ;)
[12:23] <Mithrandir> : tfheen@golem ~ > apt-cache search love | wc -l
[12:23] <Mithrandir> 65
[12:23] <Mithrandir> jdub: ^^
[12:23] <mjg59> Keybuk: We're loading the non-free nvidia module even when the user isn't using the non-free driver
[12:23] <mjg59> Keybuk: This has the side-effect of breaking suspend for some people
[12:23] <pitti> Mithrandir: well, that maches 'language Slovenian' and such :)
[12:24] <Mithrandir> pitti: details. :-P
[12:24] <Keybuk> mjg59: yes?
[12:24] <Keybuk> if we don't load the non-free nvidia module then when the user tries to use it, it doesn't work
[12:24] <pitti> heh, 'xsabre - fighter plane simulator' matches love --- make love, not war???
[12:24] <Keybuk> for the module to be available, they have to have installed the package, no?
[12:24] <mjg59> Keybuk: I have some issues with auto-loading non-free code into the kernel when there's no need for it
[12:25] <mjg59> Keybuk: No, it's in l-r-m
[12:25] <Keybuk> how do we decide if there's a need for it or not?
[12:25] <mjg59> It basically means that we can't trust any kernel bug reports from anyone with an nvidia graphics card
[12:25] <mjg59> Well, that's a good question
[12:25] <Mithrandir> look at the X config?
[12:26] <doko_> pitti, tkamppeter: we seem to have symbolic link loops for the ppd files
[12:26] <doko_> $ ls -l /usr/share/ppd
[12:26] <doko_> total 0
[12:26] <doko_> drwxr-xr-x 7 root root    64 2006-08-31 22:17 cups-included
[12:26] <doko_> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root    13 2006-08-31 22:17 cups-transitional-dir -> ../cups/model
[12:26] <doko_> drwxrwsr-t 2 root lpadmin  6 2006-08-30 17:01 custom
[12:26] <mjg59> Ideally X would load it if it's using nvidia rather than nv
[12:26] <doko_> drwxr-xr-x 3 root root    16 2006-08-31 22:27 gutenprint
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[12:26] <doko_> drwxr-xr-x 3 root root    30 2006-09-22 08:15 postscript
[12:26] <doko_> $ ls -l /usr/share/cups/model/
[12:26] <doko_> total 24
[12:26] <doko_> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   23 2006-08-31 22:17 cups-included -> ../../ppd/cups-included
[12:26] <doko_> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   16 2006-08-31 22:17 custom -> ../../ppd/custom
[12:26] <doko_> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   20 2006-08-31 22:18 gutenprint -> ../../ppd/gutenprint
[12:26] <doko_> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 9645 2006-09-22 04:00 pxlcolor.ppd
[12:26] <doko_> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 9453 2006-09-22 04:00 pxlmono.ppd
[12:26] <Keybuk> mjg59: the entire new world order is based on the theory that we always load all of the drivers for the underlying hardware
[12:26] <Keybuk> admittedly, in this case, I would argue that the nvidia module is not a driver
[12:27] <Keybuk> but a support module for X
[12:27] <Keybuk> so X should just load it
[12:27] <mjg59> Keybuk: In this case, doing so breaks things
[12:27] <mjg59> Right
[12:27] <Keybuk> it's a slippery slope though
[12:27] <Keybuk> someone might have a wifi card that they never use, and the driver breaks suspend
[12:27] <pitti> doko_: hmm, what's the loop exactly?
[12:28] <mjg59> Keybuk: If we have the source to the driver, we can fix that
[12:28] <carlos> pitti: not yet changed
[12:28] <carlos> I need to readjust them to the new server
[12:28] <Keybuk> mjg59: true, true
[12:28] <doko_> pitti: looking for i.e. a gutenprint driver in /usr/share/ppd finds the driver twice.
[12:28] <Keybuk> anyway yes, I agree that the non-free X server should load the non-free kernel module by hand
[12:28] <carlos> pitti: so you have the tarballs available when you wake up (or near that)
[12:28] <Keybuk> but given we don't have the source to either to fix that ...
[12:29] <pitti> doko_: ah, ok; so it's not really a loop, but an undesirable 'fork'
[12:29] <Nafallo> fabbione: know what. evms alsa has PREREQ on md, but mdadm reverse depends give mindi, lvm-common ;-)
[12:29] <Nafallo> s/alsa/also/
[12:29] <pitti> carlos: I just wondered when I'll get the current ones, since I urgently need to upload new edgy tarballs for the beta
=== Nafallo fetches code :-)
[12:29] <dholbach> can somebody please give back   opal   and   libgnomeuimm2.6  ?
[12:30] <carlos> pitti: edgy ones should be being regenerated right now
[12:31] <carlos> pitti: it's the last one to be generated
[12:31] <carlos> let me check when did it starte
[12:31] <carlos> started
[12:31] <carlos> pitti: it started 20 minutes ago
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[12:33] <carlos> pitti: from previous exports, it takes between 3 hours and a half and 4 hours... (it's a full export...)
[12:34] <pitti> carlos: ok, thanks
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[12:35] <Keybuk> Description: GNOME simulaton of Conway's Life
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[12:35] <Keybuk> oh, just what the archive needs
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[12:35] <Keybuk> ANOTHER frickin' game of life clone :p
[12:36] <pitti> with aiglx support? :)
[12:38] <Fujitsu> Keybuk, it's a lot more functional that anything else I've found.
[12:38] <Fujitsu> And people requested it.
[12:38] <Keybuk> it's about to get rejected, by the looks of it
[12:39] <Keybuk> it's based on another program, yet entirely fails to mention any copyright :p
[12:39] <Fujitsu> Wha? It does mention it...
[12:39] <Keybuk> it says "based on GtkLife", and that's it
[12:39] <Fujitsu> It mentions the copyright (Suzanne Skinner) in debian/copyright..
[12:40] <Keybuk> Copyright: 2005, John Spray <jcspray@icculus.org>
[12:40] <Keybuk> is all that's in debian/copyright
[12:41] <Fujitsu> Mine here is:
[12:41] <Fujitsu> Copyright: 2005 Suzanne Skinner, 2006 John Spray
[12:41] <Fujitsu> Somebody must have grabbed an old version from REVU...
=== Fujitsu checks.
[12:41] <Keybuk> *shrug* that's not what's in NEW
[12:42] <Fujitsu> Noted.
[12:42] <Keybuk> and who is Suzanne Skinner anyway?
[12:42] <Keybuk> that's not the name of the GtkLife author
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[12:43] <pitti> Keybuk: don't you require a proper license stanza, too?
[12:44] <Fujitsu> Suzanne Britton is the GtkLife author, it appears. LucidLife upstream got it wrong!
=== Nafallo ponders who he should talk to about initramfs-tools PREREQ ;-)
[12:45] <Mithrandir> Nafallo: we won't change that for edgy; too late.
[12:45] <Keybuk> Fujitsu: according to the gtklife website, she plans to integrate the lucidlife changes into gtklife
[12:45] <Keybuk> I suspect it'd be better to package that
[12:45] <Nafallo> Mithrandir: I know. but if I fix it now and put packages online for testing we can do it early edgy+1 :-).
[12:46] <Fujitsu> Hmm... True. OK...
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[12:51] <Nafallo> fabbione: would it make sense to make pvmove work OOTB while I'm at it (load dm-mirror by default)? :-)
[12:58] <fabbione> Nafallo: do you want to maintain mdadm?
[12:58] <fabbione> if so why don't you talk directly to madduck ?
[12:59] <Nafallo> this is lvm-common
[12:59] <Nafallo> :-)
[12:59] <fabbione> it's not my pet package.. i don't care how it's done until it does not break because most of my ssytems depends on /boot on raid
[12:59] <fabbione> yeah that too
[12:59] <fabbione> same story
[12:59] <fabbione> and / on lvm
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[12:59] <Nafallo> oki :-)
[01:00] <HrdwrBoB> Nafallo: and dm-snapshot
[01:00] <Nafallo> I mostly want to scratch my itch :-)
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[01:01] <Nafallo> HrdwrBoB: already does.
[01:02] <HrdwrBoB> ah, sweet
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[01:10] <madduck> Nafallo: co-maintainers always welcome, although there's fairly little to do right now.
[01:12] <Nafallo> madduck: nice, I'll think about it. for the moment I think I will just send patches though :-). but thanks for the offer.
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=== Nafallo needs to reboot to try new kernel + initramfs :-)
[01:12] <Nafallo> brb
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[01:16] <carlos> seb128: just in case I'm not around when you are back, it's a locale problem, LC_ALL=C fix the issue with the hilight, but I don't find anything obvious in the .po file that would be producing this
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[01:37] <pitti> fabbione: ah, found and fixed the cupsys upgrade bug
[01:37] <pitti> Mithrandir: ^ Simple conflicts/replaces version bump, I assume it's ok to upload?
[01:37] <Mithrandir> go ahead
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[01:43] <iwj> I can't believe it.  This crazy firefox 1.5 string handling nightmare backport bug of doom which I have been wrestling all week has VANISHED.
[01:43] <pitti> iwj: uh, how can that be???
[01:44] <iwj> I don't know.  I think I need to have some food and some coffee and some staring out of the window scratching my head.
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[01:46] <Hobbsee> hehe
[01:56] <jdub> $ apt-cache search christ on a stick
[01:56] <jdub> libmail-audit-perl - Perl library for creating easy mail filters
[01:56] <jdub> ^ no kidding
[01:56] <Treenaks> jdub: LOL :)
[01:58] <Mithrandir> doko_: ooo-common seems to need a replaces on ooo-math due to /usr/lib/openoffice/program/resource/sm680en-US.res
[01:58] <Treenaks> jdub: how do you come up with stuff like that? :)
[01:58] <jdub> Treenaks: baby jesus told me
[01:58] <tkamppeter> doko_, cupsys provides /usr/share/ppd/cups-transitional-dir, so that PPD files in /usr/share/cups/model get found,
[01:58] <Mithrandir> Treenaks: it all comes naturally to him.  He's jdub.
[01:59] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: hm... that sounds reasonable too
[01:59] <doko_> Mithrandir: ok, thanks
[01:59] <tkamppeter> but Gutenprint, HPLIP, ... provide their own links to provide /usr/share/cups/model paths, probably for their internal tools, like hp-setup
[02:00] <doko_> tkamppeter: IIRC, in dapper, we moved these into /usr/share/ppd/cups and 
[02:00] <Mithrandir> tkamppeter: what about the linuxprinting.org-ppds package?  We just stopped shipping loads of precreated PPDs due to space issues.
[02:01] <tkamppeter> At FSG/LSB (my main employment) we have decided on a file system standard for printer drivers, which will be finalized on the Printing Summit in October, once everyone have overtaken this the nightmare of links will stop.
[02:03] <tkamppeter> linuxprinting.org-ppds dpes not contain any PPD which is built from Foomatic XML data. It contains only the PPDs which printer manufacturers have contributed to linuxprinting.org as ready-made PPDs.
[02:04] <Mithrandir> tkamppeter: oh, ok.  So they're interesting to ship then.
[02:04] <mjg59> desrt: I've just sent Ben a patch for iSight and the IR remote support
[02:04] <Kamion> 13MB is still lots though
[02:04] <Mithrandir> tkamppeter: we don't have space for 10MB though, so in that case we need to get rid of something else..
[02:04] <Mithrandir> 13MB even
[02:04] <desrt> mjg59; that's cool.
[02:05] <desrt> mjg59; i'd be careful with the ir remote support one, though
[02:05] <desrt> mjg59; if it's the one i tried it has some serious problems
[02:05] <tkamppeter> Mithrandir, I have made them shipping by adding a dependency to foomatic-db. Through out games and such and it will work.
[02:06] <Kamion> ! we need to discuss this sort of thing
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[02:06] <fabbione> pitti: cool
[02:07] <Kamion> while the games probably ought to be made smaller, I don't want to just throw them out; they're a valuable draw for new users
[02:07] <mjg59> desrt: Yeah. My hardware's support seems to be flaky anyway.
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[02:07] <Mithrandir> Kamion: and we don't ship 13MB of games.
[02:07] <Kamion> no, indeed we don't
[02:07] <Kamion> about 4MB
[02:07] <tkamppeter> The necessity of space for printing on distros will get vastly reduced next year, as at FSG we will add distro-independent driver and PPD packages to linuxprinting.org and then the diistro will only carry a few very important drivers and download the rest automatically from linuxprinting.org.
[02:07] <Kamion> which is about what it deserves
[02:08] <Mithrandir> tkamppeter: you assume that people have bandwidth.  Often, they don't.
[02:08] <desrt> mjg59; i'm sorry.  do you or do you not have a macbook?
[02:08] <Mithrandir> I think we should demote that depends to recommends anyhow.
[02:08] <mjg59> desrt: No, an iMac
[02:08] <desrt> ah
[02:08] <Kamion> at present, we will have to throw out localisation to gain that space, I think
=== Nafallo just removed the mdadm dep from lvm-common successfully :-)
[02:09] <lastnode> i think space is less valuable than bandwidth for most users (at least for desktop users)
[02:09] <Kamion> currently, we have 2.5MB free on the alternate i386 CD
[02:09] <mjg59> Hm. I'm in bed and I need to  be on my way to the airport in an hour
[02:09] <Kamion> lastnode: CD space is strictly finite
[02:09] <tkamppeter> The distro's tools will not download 13 MB if they discover a printer. They will download only one driver/PPD, for the printer they have detected.
[02:09] <desrt> mjg59; where are you off to?
[02:09] <mjg59> Akademy
[02:09] <desrt> you turncoat freak
[02:09] <HrdwrBoB> tkamppeter: doesn't help offline people though
[02:09] <Kamion> there's about 12.4MB free on the desktop amd64 CD, which is the tightest of that set
[02:10] <desrt> i hope you're there for purpose of infiltration
[02:10] <Kamion> HrdwrBoB: I think that's OK in this case
[02:10] <lastnode> Kamion, at the same time, it's not cool to assume the end user will have bandwidth. tools like printer drivers need to get shipped, i reckon.
[02:10] <Kamion> lastnode: important ones, yes; absolutely everything, no
[02:10] <Kamion> we cannot and do not ship everything possible
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[02:10] <Kamion> and it's "not cool" to cavalierly assume we can
[02:10] <jdub> mjg59: i hope you pick up.
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[02:11] <lastnode> Kamion, i agree, i agree, a balance has to be found between the two
[02:11] <lastnode> i guess im just kind of on the other side of this issue because i come from a bandwidth starved nation
[02:11] <lastnode> where a lot of ubuntu users only have the ubuntu install cd as their "repo"
[02:12] <lastnode> im lucky, i have dsl at home, but a lot of people don't.
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[02:12] <tkamppeter> For printer drivers, once there are many coming from manufacturers which are not free, they cannot be shipped, and from the free once we can leave out the once for less common or very old printers, like all these little 3rd-party thingies for Lexmark (not on Ubuntu anyway, but on other distros like Mandriva).
[02:13] <HrdwrBoB> lexmark need to diaf
[02:13] <Kamion> in order to find space for linuxprinting.org-ppds, I think we'd probably have to drop all language support other than English from the powerpc alternate install CD
[02:13] <HrdwrBoB> after providing open drivers
[02:13] <tkamppeter> HPLIP, Gutenprint, foo2zjs and drivers for Samsung should be shipped, all these printer brands are very common.
[02:13] <Kamion> we need to consider whether that's worth it
[02:13] <Mithrandir> Kamion: that's quite a tradeoff.
[02:14] <Kamion> i386 would lose support for a number of less-common languages
[02:14] <Hobbsee> just remove open office :P
[02:14] <Kamion> why does every CD size discussion inspire suggestions that we all know won't happen?
[02:15] <Hobbsee> heh, sorry
[02:15] <tkamppeter> Yes, remove OOo, then we can nicely print the CUPS test page on 200 printer models, but can we create printable documents then?
[02:15] <Kamion> sorry to snap, but that suggestion is made every time, and after the tenth time it starts to get boring
[02:15] <tkamppeter> s/200/2000/
=== Hobbsee goes back to hiding
[02:15] <pitti> eventually we have to stop putting new crack onto the CDs anyway; there are only so many langpacks we can kill
[02:16] <jdub> Kamion: reaching for absurdity is a common grieving technique
[02:16] <Nafallo> pitti: yea, stop adding and start replacing :-)
[02:16] <tkamppeter> Remove the kernel, there are many bugs in it.
[02:16] <HrdwrBoB> unfortunately DVDs are nowhere near widespread enough
[02:16] <pitti> Nafallo: well, python was replaced by mono, that was a good start
[02:17] <Nafallo> pitti: :-)
[02:17] <pitti> well, I mean for add->replace
[02:17] <Nafallo> yea
[02:17] <pitti> (not that I particularly favour mono, I mostly uninstall it anyway)
[02:17] <Nafallo> but not really the same thing
[02:17] <tkamppeter> pitti, should I tell the HP guys to rewrite the HPLIP tools in Mono?
[02:17] <Nafallo> drop gthumb and add f-spot would be something like what I talk about :-)
[02:17] <pitti> tkamppeter: well, first that wouldn't help, and second we have shipped hplip for a long time already
[02:17] <pitti> Nafallo: we do have f-spot already
[02:18] <Nafallo> pitti: yea, but we didn't replace something, we added it...
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[02:18] <pitti> <rant>and just for an overkill sticky notes app and an overly complicated photo management app we have to carry the whole mono stack on the CD</rant>
[02:18] <pitti> (sorry)
[02:18] <tkamppeter> But from gthumb and f-spot one perhaps needs only one. They both are image managers.
[02:18] <Kamion> gthumb is 1.2MB, not enough to gain this kind of space
[02:18] <Kamion> tkamppeter: f-spot doesn't have quite enough to replace gthumb yet
[02:18] <Kamion> but it's a good preview of the future
[02:19] <tseng> sigh people can drop mono if they really want to imo
[02:19] <tkamppeter> Then leave gthumb in and take f-spot(+Mono) out.
[02:19] <tseng> but it was approved by mdz ages ago and I didnt hear from you guys then
=== pitti hugs tseng, wasn't meant really serious
[02:19] <Nafallo> same here. maybe we should have ubuntu-extras.iso :-P
[02:19] <Mithrandir> tseng: that'd leave us without a note thingabob applet, which we want.
[02:19] <Kamion> can we focus on the present problem please?
[02:20] <pitti> well, my gut feeling is to just throw out the additional PPDs again
[02:20] <pitti> last come, last serve
[02:20] <Nafallo> Kamion: I came in late, what is the present problem? OVERSIZE how much etc?
[02:20] <jdub> pitti: overly complicated?
[02:20] <pitti> we went through the CD so often, I doubt that there is much cruft left
[02:20] <Mithrandir> tkamppeter: are there any particularly interesting PPDs we'd want, or a sensible way to split the package or something?
[02:20] <Kamion> perhaps they can be split to include just the most common ones?
[02:20] <Nafallo> pitti: agreed
[02:21] <tkamppeter> The PPDs are all manufacturer-contributed.
[02:22] <pitti> well, yeah, but we can't ship all possible PPDs the same way that we can't ship all possible gnome apps/mono apps/langpacks/python modules/firefox plugins/etc.
[02:22] <Kamion> I'm still unconvinced by the 4MB ekiga (plus deps, haven't counted) on the CD, but I'd prefer to talk with mdz before removing that
[02:22] <pitti> s/the same way/for the same reason/
[02:22] <jdub> Kamion: gimp!
[02:22] <Kamion> gimp < ekiga
[02:22] <tkamppeter> The brands are: HP, Ricoh (with Infotec, Gestetner, Lanier, NRG, Ricoh, Savin), Kyocera, Brother, Oce, Okidata.
[02:23] <Kamion> oh, no, maybe not with the data files. would have to count
[02:23] <Kamion> maybe it would be worth it to shut jdub up :P
[02:23] <jdub> $ apt-cache show gimp gimp-data gimp-python gimp-svg libgimp2.0 | grep ^Install
[02:23] <jdub> Installed-Size: 7896
[02:23] <jdub> Installed-Size: 20392
[02:23] <jdub> Installed-Size: 380
[02:23] <jdub> Installed-Size: 128
[02:23] <jdub> Installed-Size: 2216
[02:23] <jdub> 
[02:23] <Kamion> installed-size is not what we care about
[02:23] <tseng> installed-size != cd size
[02:23] <pitti> jdub: I-S doesn't matter
[02:23] <jdub> Kamion: i bring it up when these discussions come up because it has always been one of my "first against the wall" suggestions
[02:24] <Kamion> I'm still not sure I agree with you though
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[02:24] <tkamppeter> Ricoh and partners are big workgroup devices, the printers of the other brands are smaller.
[02:24] <jdub> oh, i thought for desktop cd installed-size mattered
[02:24] <Kamion> I'm entirely aware it's been one of your suggestions from the year dot
[02:24] <pitti> jdub: you want to ship three programs to watch pictures, but none to modify them?
[02:24] <jdub> pitti: f-spot handles common photo use cases
[02:24] <Kamion> jdub: the compression included in Size is much closer to the actual space taken up on the desktop CD
[02:24] <jdub> Kamion: aha
[02:24] <Kamion> we don't care about the uncompressed size of the squashfs
[02:25] <Kamion> at least, not at this level
[02:25] <tkamppeter> So perhaps we leave out the Ricoh brands then. These devices are usually also sold only with service and the service tells where the files can be found on linuxprinting.org.
[02:25] <Kamion> I am persuadable about gimp, but I think many fewer users use ekiga
[02:25] <jdub> Kamion: continuing to dismiss it like it's the ravings of a madman doesn't seem productive
[02:25] <Kamion> jdub: you dismiss all the counterarguments though
[02:25] <jdub> i don't
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[02:26] <Nafallo> ekiga seems to not be using SRV, so personally I hate it atm :-P
[02:26] <jdub> note: i suggested gimp for warty, i supported its inclusion in every release since
[02:26] <jdub> i don't suggest it because i don't want it to be there
[02:26] <fabbione> jdub: that's why have been fighiting with cd size since :P
[02:26] <Kamion> gimp is one of the most popular things I see real users of my acquaintance using
[02:26] <tkamppeter> All the other brands are mostly printers which are sold "cash & carry", where service is supposed to come from the OS vendor.
[02:26] <jdub> Kamion: the best reason for gimp being there is that it is one of the ultimate demo apps
[02:27] <pitti> tkamppeter: that sounds as if you think a package split would make sense then?
[02:27] <Kamion> surely it's that people use it (or something filling its slot)
[02:27] <pitti> tkamppeter: a small deb with common drivers and a large with uncommon ones?
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[02:27] <jdub> Kamion: i think that's a supporting reason, but not the #1 reason
[02:28] <Kamion> I think it is important for Ubuntu CDs to be useful to people, as well as being vehicles for advocacy
[02:28] <det> Is it known that Edgy's ubuntu-desktop depends on a package in universe? linuxprinting.org-ppds
[02:28] <jdub> Kamion: that's why gimp is still in the desktop CD
[02:28] <Kamion> det: we are presently debating that extensively
[02:28] <jdub> Kamion: ... but if we're up against the wall of reality ...
[02:28] <jdub> that has *always* been the context of my suggestion
[02:29] <Kamion> jdub: ... then every time I've checked, there have been better things to remove
[02:29] <det> Kamion, I am not sure if you are being serious or sarcastic
[02:29] <jdub> Kamion: that's why gimp is still in the desktop CD
[02:29] <Kamion> det: entirely serious
[02:29] <pitti> det: serious
[02:29] <det> OK. Thanks.
[02:29] <jdub> Kamion: this is why it's frustrating to be spoken to like an idiot.
[02:29] <det> It broke my debootstrap until I added the extra repository.
[02:29] <Kamion> jdub: so why is it always the first suggestion when a CD size debate comes up, rather than "let's look through what's in these packages and see if there's wasted space"?
[02:29] <Kamion> jdub: I am frustrated with CD size debates always focusing on removing high-profile applications
[02:30] <jdub> Kamion: because often the discussion happens with a lot of question marks involved
[02:30] <Kamion> jdub: I find that it derails the debate hopelessly into bikeshedding
[02:30] <Kamion> rather than getting the job done
[02:30] <Kamion> I'm sorry I snapped, but that's why I find it irritating
[02:30] <Kamion> and when a few people sit down quietly and look through things that are more subtle than just removing visible applications, they generally find several megabytes of wasted space
[02:30] <tkamppeter> What's your opinion about splitting out the Ricoh PPDs as I mentioned, they make up something like 80% of the PPD package?
[02:31] <Kamion> each time
[02:31] <jdub> Kamion: the great thing is, after so many releases, i'm fully confident that you'll find better ways of solving the problem before we have to start doing things like this; but if it comes up, there are good reasons to prioritise some of those high-profile applications
[02:31] <pitti> tkamppeter: 80% sounds pretty teasing if those Ricoh printers aren't that common
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[02:31] <Kamion> jdub: I don't disagree, but would you mind not contributing to every CD size discussion with "gimp!" :-)
[02:31] <Kamion> ?
[02:31] <jdub> Kamion: so if that's justification for treating me like an idiot, rock on
[02:32] <pitti> tkamppeter: asked the other way around: how many of these extra PPDs cover printers which don't work with the foomatic PPDs at all?
[02:32] <Kamion> because the "which application do we remove" flamewar every time really does get in the way of work
[02:32] <tkamppeter> In companies where one uses such Ricoh printers, one usually does not run on a live CD.
[02:32] <janimo> seb128: how do you see us going further with the whole python-gnome issue?
[02:32] <Kamion> I agree that we should have an application ordering, but I don't want it to be the first resort every time
[02:32] <tkamppeter> One adds software anyway.
[02:32] <Kamion> we should only be going to applications after exhausting other possibilities
[02:33] <pitti> tkamppeter: ok, then this indeed sounds like a good opportunity for a split and getting rid of ~ 10 MB
[02:33] <Kamion> jdub: again, I apologise for my initial response
[02:33] <tkamppeter> And there are sysads or Ricoh service who know how to add a package or how to get an even newer PPD from upstream.
[02:33] <pitti> tkamppeter: the small main package can Suggests: the large ricoh universe package then
[02:33] <Kamion> tkamppeter: that sounds like a productive approach; thanks
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[02:35] <Nafallo> pitti: have we done everything for reducing duplication yet?
[02:35] <tkamppeter> I will perhaps also rename the packages into standard-ppds and enterprise-ppds and standard-ppds will suggest enterprise-ppds
[02:35] <pitti> Nafallo: certainly not everything, but we aren't that bad
[02:35] <pitti> Nafallo: e. g. we still have multible libdb4.x, but they are small
[02:35] <Nafallo> pitti: oki. so nothing big to save there either :-/.
[02:35] <pitti> tkamppeter: well, I'd avoid 'standard' and 'enterprise'
[02:36] <pitti> tkamppeter: maybe linuxprinting.org-ppds-common and -extra
[02:36] <pitti> or just keep the current linuxprinting.org-ppds and add an -extra one?
[02:36] <det> pitti, I like that much better
[02:36] <Kamion> Nafallo: there are always quite a lot of small things
[02:36] <pitti> that is consistent with other packages
[02:36] <Kamion> they just take more work
[02:36] <seb128> janimo: let's talk about it after beta
[02:36] <_ion> foopackage-enterprise, now with more XML and Web 2.0
[02:37] <janimo> seb128: I'd like those apps tested in xubuntu context in beta (especiall a11y stuff)
[02:37] <janimo> seb128: that way you'll get the other apps using them tested more widely
[02:37] <janimo> seb128: after beta sounds riskier
[02:38] <seb128> janimo: we are pretty much frozen for beta, I don't think splitting packages now is a good idea
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[02:38] <janimo> seb128: we could try to get an exception and defer for after beta if not given then?
[02:38] <tkamppeter> So I will use linuxprinting.org-ppds and linuxprinting.org-ppds-extra
[02:39] <Nafallo> tkamppeter: sounds good :-)
[02:39] <pitti> tkamppeter: that sounds good to me
[02:39] <seb128> janimo: feel free to try, I'm busy enough with other issues to fix before beta for my part
[02:39] <pitti> tkamppeter: thank you!
[02:39] <tkamppeter> So tell me when beta is over and I do the splitting then.
[02:39] <janimo> seb128: the packages could get into the archive today and nothing else changes in gnome
[02:39] <janimo> seb128: ok I'll try
[02:39] <pitti> tkamppeter: well, we either need to drop the dependency or do the split now
[02:39] <seb128> janimo: talk to mdz, if he agrees I'll do the change
[02:39] <pitti> tkamppeter: right now the desktop CDs are uninstallable
[02:40] <pitti> tkamppeter: (because lp-ppds is in universe, and even if we promote it, the CDs would overflow)
[02:40] <seb128> janimo: is xubuntu CD oversized without that change?
[02:40] <tkamppeter> So this means that we do a freeze exception?
[02:40] <janimo> seb128: ok, do you want a patch for python-gome-extras in LP or do you want to do it yourself
[02:40] <Kamion> how did linuxprinting.org-ppds get into ubuntu-desktop dependencies without being promoted?
[02:40] <Kamion> the tools should make that impossible
[02:40] <janimo> seb128: the alternate CD is oversized ~6M
[02:40] <janimo> this would hekp about 4 I guess
[02:40] <pitti> Kamion: it's a new foomatic-db dependency
[02:40] <janimo> there are other things that made it oversized
[02:40] <janimo> recently
[02:40] <pitti> Kamion: not an u-d one
[02:41] <Kamion> ah
[02:41] <tkamppeter> Kanion, by adding a dependency to foomatic-db
[02:41] <pitti> well, but that sounds wrong anyway
[02:41] <Kamion> ok
[02:41] <seb128> janimo: xfce is bigger than GNOME?
[02:41] <Kamion> yeah, if you just want it in the desktop, it should be seeded
[02:41] <Kamion> unless foomatic-db actually requires it for proper operation
[02:41] <det> janimo, Yes, I had to burn it to a DVD. I feel so wasteful :( Also I discovered RAID and LVM are still not working on knot-3 :/
[02:41] <pitti> Kamion: my gut says that we should drop the foomatic-db dependency now and add the small lp-ppds package to u-desktop after beta
[02:41] <janimo> seb128: no, but it ships OOo, several language support packs and a full LTSP setup
[02:42] <seb128> janimo: Ubuntu also ship OOo, easy target is to drop some language packs other way
[02:42] <Nafallo> det: huh? I use LVM here :-)
[02:42] <Kamion> pitti: I think I would like to get the split out of the way, in order to make sure the space doesn't get eaten elsewhere
[02:42] <det> Nafallo, The knot-3 installer doesn't appear to support LVM
[02:42] <janimo> det: RAID and LVM not working only sound a xubunt problem id I forgot something in xubuntu . Does it work in ubuntu Knot 3 otherise?
[02:42] <Nafallo> det: ah, that's not the same thing then :-)
[02:43] <det> Yeah, besides, probally the wrong place to discuss this.
[02:43] <janimo> seb128: I'd ratrher not drop langpacks which are theoretically used if I can drop things which are certainly not used just there
[02:43] <tseng> det: you need to use the alternate cd for advanced partitioning
[02:43] <janimo> seb128: anyway the CD size is just one issue so it does not help in the p-g2 issue
[02:43] <det> tseng, Yeah, it doesnt work on the alternate CD.
[02:43] <seb128> janimo: I would prefer not hurry that split if possible though
[02:44] <Nafallo> tseng, det: I made /, booted and then made the rest of the LVM-stuff :-)
[02:44] <seb128> janimo: Loc seems to agree now than splitting can be useful for Debian so better to make sure they want to split the same way
[02:44] <det> Nafallo, / is LVM on my setup, I have a seperate raid-1 /boot
[02:44] <janimo> seb128: I'll talk to mdz and see. I prefer to hurry so I get the chance to get onboard tested in  xubuntu, and help with reducing the CD size. 
[02:44] <Nafallo> ah
[02:44] <janimo> seb128: ok, but I'd rather not wait till Etch is out :)
[02:45] <seb128> janimo: that's not like you need lot of testing, you agree the split is no change
[02:45] <seb128> janimo: so that's not something that needs maximal testing with beta
[02:45] <janimo> seb128: right, not the split itself is that needs test but getting more apps on the CD
[02:45] <fabbione> janimo: no.. i fixed RAID after knot-3
[02:45] <janimo> seb128: but if debina do it soon and you can make the same changes for edgy I am ok weioth that too
[02:46] <seb128> drop language packs for now if require and get them back after beta when we split
[02:46] <Kamion> det: please file a bug on partman-lvm describing the problem
[02:46] <Kamion> det: attach /var/log/syslog and /var/log/partman (you can extract them using "Save debug logs" from the installer main menu)
[02:46] <det> Kamion, I suspect it is well known, it was mentioned on the forums.
[02:46] <janimo> seb128: ok, so do you think debian will split for 2.16 and you can just reuse their split? That would be good. But must make sure it happens for edgy
[02:47] <det> I'll search anyways.
[02:47] <Kamion> det: I'm the maintainer
[02:47] <Kamion> please file a bug :-)
[02:47] <Kamion> I don't read the forums, in general
[02:47] <seb128> janimo: I'm not sure, they don't need to though, we just have to agree on the binary split (what packages and the naming)
[02:47] <janimo> seb128: well the names and content should be straightforward. It is mandated by the policy after all
[02:48] <janimo> and the content cannot really be gotten wrong either
[02:48] <seb128> janimo: name ares, remain to know if we want to split gnomevfs by example
[02:48] <det> Kamion, for the raid too?
[02:48] <janimo> seb128: the advantag of using tehir would be that no source diff would be needed at all
[02:48] <Kamion> det: yes please, on partman-md
[02:48] <janimo> Replaces fileds in particular. But if you're happy with source pkg diffs I am ok too
[02:49] <seb128> janimo: Josselin proposed to split every component on his mail, not only canvas and gconf
[02:49] <janimo> seb128: I'd suggest they not split too much, since it may not be a real gain. But it's up to them
[02:49] <seb128> janimo: right, just need to be discussed so everybody agree
[02:49] <janimo> seb128: yeah, I think that is overkill but it's their decission after all
[02:49] <seb128> I don't expect it to be a long or hard topic
[02:50] <janimo> especially not split egg and popt and other useless stuff
[02:51] <seb128> right
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[03:02] <pitti> janimo: ah, system-config-printer :) you should definitively discuss this GUI work with tkamppeter 
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[03:03] <majyk> why would the vmware-player package want to remove libdbus-1.2? Isn't that a vital package needed by Gnome?
[03:04] <Nafallo> majyk: we use libdbus-1.3 now
[03:04] <majyk> ah, that would explain it
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[03:06] <janimo> pitti: I did not work on that mind you :)  It's just lifted from Fedora
[03:07] <janimo> pitti: the GUI we looked at in paris was deprecated at that point and this new one one hidden in CVS somewhere
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[03:08] <janimo> pitti: found it accidentally while reading RH magazine two weeks ago
[03:08] <tkamppeter> pitti, kamion, Nafallo, Mithrandir, mdz: The new foomatic-db package without dependency is as 0ubuntu2 on my web space now, grab it from http://www.freestandards.org/~till/tmp/ubuntu/edgy/foomatic-db/
[03:09] <pitti> ^ grabbing, checking, and uploading
[03:15] <tkamppeter> pitti, system-config-printer? Can it be that you are in a terminal window now where you sshed to a Fedora/RedHat box?
[03:16] <pitti> tkamppeter: certainly not ;) no, I just spotted it on edgy-changes@
[03:16] <pitti> tkamppeter: janimo uploaded it to universe
[03:17] <tkamppeter> So someone has ported the Red Hat printer tool to Ubuntu? What is the package name to apt-get install it ("yum: Command not found.")?
[03:17] <pitti> tkamppeter: it was just uploaded, it'll take a while to get published and built
[03:17] <pitti> after that, 'system-config-printer'
[03:19] <tkamppeter> How many days/weeks usually? The new foo2zjs did not arrive yet, too and doko_ told he has uploaded it yesterday.
[03:19] <pitti> tkamppeter: usually about three hours
[03:19] <tkamppeter> doko_, did you really upload the new foo2zjs?
[03:19] <iwj> pitti: OK, what do you want me to do with this backport ?  I haven't tried compiling it yet but I'm pretty confident.
[03:19] <pitti> iwj: 'this backport'?
[03:20] <pitti> iwj: ffox 1.5.0.7 for breezy?
[03:20] <iwj> Oh, sorry, I'm confused.
[03:20] <iwj> I'm talking about a dpkg backport for mvo.
[03:20] <iwj> I think my brain has melted due to too much mozilla source.
[03:20] <pitti> iwj: btw, there is no firefox breezy upload from you in the queue
[03:20] <ogra> Keybuk, is udev able to detect if i plug in anything into a parallel or serial port ? (esp. printers)
[03:20] <iwj> pitti: It rejected itself for some reason.
[03:20] <iwj> I forget what it was.
=== pitti looks
[03:21] <pitti> iwj: oh: firefox_1.5.dfsg+1.5.0.7.orig.tar.gz file already exists in the Accepted directory.
[03:21] <doko_> $ cat foo2zjs_20060625dfsg-2_source.upload
[03:21] <doko_> u foo2zjs_20060625dfsg-2.diff.gz upload.ubuntu.com Thu Sep 21 22:10:25 2006
[03:21] <doko_> u foo2zjs_20060625dfsg-2.dsc upload.ubuntu.com Thu Sep 21 22:10:26 2006
[03:21] <doko_> u foo2zjs_20060625dfsg.orig.tar.gz upload.ubuntu.com Thu Sep 21 22:10:48 2006
[03:21] <doko_> u foo2zjs_20060625dfsg-2_source.changes upload.ubuntu.com Thu Sep 21 22:10:50 2006
[03:21] <doko_> s foo2zjs_20060625dfsg-2_source.changes upload.ubuntu.com Thu Sep 21 22:10:50 2006
[03:21] <doko_> hmm ...
[03:21] <Keybuk> ogra: nope
[03:21] <pitti> iwj: yes, sorry, after I told you about -sa, I uploaded the dapper version
[03:21] <pitti> iwj: so, no -sa necessary any more
[03:21] <ogra> Keybuk, thanks ... sad ...
[03:21] <Keybuk> udev doesn't detect anything
[03:21] <iwj> pitti: Yes, that sounds familiar.
[03:22] <Keybuk> I suspect you may have meant "is THE KERNEL able to detect"
[03:22] <iwj> But I'm currently stalled because this bug has gone away.
[03:22] <ogra> well, does it get a kernel event then ? 
[03:22] <Keybuk> nope
[03:22] <pitti> iwj: *boggle*
[03:22] <ogra> ok
[03:22] <iwj> And my breezy machine isn't the one with the huge RAM so everything is slow (especially as there are two versions: 1.5.0.5 and 1.5.0.7) to consider.
[03:22] <Keybuk> the common parallel port doesn't support insert notification ;)
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[03:22] <Keybuk> or device identification, for that matter
[03:22] <iwj> I'm doing a set of really fresh builds just to make sure I'm not dreaming or something.
[03:23] <ogra> well, parallel ports are quite intelligent so i had hopes :)
[03:23] <iwj> The same is true of serial ports.
[03:24] <iwj> M$ have a crazy plug and pray protocol but it makes assumptions about your devices that might not be true.
[03:25] <doko_> tkamppeter: my mistake, needs a sync from unstable
[03:27] <doko_> tkamppeter: Ubuntu #61874
[03:27] <doko_> tkamppeter: bug #61874
[03:27] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 61874 in Ubuntu "sync request" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61874
[03:29] <Fujitsu> That doesn't meet the new sync requirements...
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[03:37] <bddebian> Doh :-(
[03:37] <bddebian> Howdy folks
[03:37] <zul> fabbione: how come?
[03:37] <fabbione>   Volume group "Ubuntu" not found                                               
[03:37] <zul> ah..
[03:37] <fabbione> where.. there... is... ROOT
[03:37] <zul> mdadm?
[03:38] <fabbione> that's morelikely lvm
[03:39] <Nafallo> fabbione: ehm, did you test my package or something? :-/
[03:40] <fabbione> Nafallo: no, fresh install
[03:40] <Nafallo> *puuh*
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[03:53] <tseng> Kamion_: would you mind promoting gsf-sharp? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportgsf-sharp
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[03:54] <jdong> Kamion_: poke?
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[03:59] <dholbach> can somebody give back opal and libgnomeuimm2.6?
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[04:09] <Kamion_> tseng: done
[04:09] <Kamion_> jdong: yes?
[04:09] <tseng> Kamion_: thanks!
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[04:15] <fabbione> Kamion_, Mithrandir: are you ok with a lvm-common upload to fix install with / on lvm ?
[04:16] <fabbione> basically it adds a call to pvscan that gives a proper kick to devicemapper and allows vgchange to actually work
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[04:19] <Kamion_> fabbione: yes
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[04:20] <fabbione> hmm crap
[04:20] <fabbione> the fix didn't work as expected..
=== fabbione checks again
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[04:21] <tkamppeter> doko_, for what are you reporting bug #61874? Are you not supposed to upload my new foo2zjs packages?
[04:21] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 61874 in Ubuntu "sync request" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61874
[04:22] <doko_> tkamppeter: no, there are no changes compared to the debian version, it has to be synced
[04:22] <doko_> Kamion, Keybuk: ^^^ would be nice to sync today, it should be in the beta
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[04:23] <Kamion_> doko_: your bug report contains only a version number and no package name
[04:23] <tkamppeter> doko_, so I was not supposed to make a package, but someone with permissions has to trigger a sync bot?
[04:23] <Hobbsee> heh
[04:23] <Hobbsee> useful
[04:23] <BenC> anyone mind kicking l-r-m for i386 out of dep wait?
=== Hobbsee tried to point that out days ago :P
[04:23] <Kamion_> doko_: please set the source package name on the bug in the usual way
[04:24] <Kamion_> tkamppeter: if it's just copying a source package from Debian, then yes, the archive administrators do that on request
[04:25] <doko_> Kamion: done
[04:26] <tkamppeter> OK, then go ahead syncing foo2zjs with Debian unstable, my package is really exactly the Debian source, only rebuilt binaries for testing.
[04:26] <Kamion_> doko_: synced
[04:28] <Kamion_> argh, don't file new bugs for sync requests when there's already a bug, subscribe the archive team to the existing one
=== Kamion_ cleans up
[04:28] <Hobbsee> Kamion_: Keybuk said the other way, i believe
[04:28] <Kamion_> Hobbsee: that would surprise me
[04:29] <Hobbsee> Kamion_: either that, or fabo got it wrong.  /me double checks
[04:29] <Kamion_> Hobbsee: fabo?
[04:29] <StevenK> fabbione, I'm guessing
[04:29] <Hobbsee> no, different
[04:29] <Kamion_> fabbione had nothing to do with this bug, nor did anyone called fabo
[04:29] <Hobbsee> a guy in #kubuntu-devel who's been requesting syncs
[04:29] <Kamion_> Hobbsee: different case
[04:30] <Hobbsee> wait, are you talking about that specific bug, or syncs in general?
[04:30] <Hobbsee> right, dont mind me then
=== Hobbsee goes back to hide in her corner
[04:30] <Kamion_> Hobbsee: a *different* specific bug, but also syncs in general
[04:30] <fabbione> i have done nothing.. i think...
[04:30] <Hobbsee> fabbione: yes, wasnt you
[04:30] <Kamion_> if you file a new bug when there's already one explicitly requesting the sync and asking for UVF approval, and if you don't bother to make any link between the two bugs, then the other one is liable to get lost
[04:31] <Hobbsee> Kamion: gotcha.  sorry, didnt realise that's what you meant.
[04:32] <fabbione> Keybuk: i think i found one of those udev create devices + kernel send notification + driver load timing issue
[04:32] <Hobbsee> Kamion: however, if it's synced, and then needs to be synced again, you want a new bug, yes?
[04:32] <fabbione> Keybuk: mind if i paste in /msg ?
[04:32] <Kamion> Hobbsee: correct
[04:32] <Keybuk> fabbione: sure
[04:33] <Keybuk> Hobbsee: I've said not to reopen old sync request bugs!
[04:33] <Hobbsee> Kamion: gotcha.  sorry for the noise
[04:33] <Keybuk> if there's an open, unresolved sync request, you should not file a new one
[04:33] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: so i hear, earlier today, i didnt do it.
[04:33] <Hobbsee> duh :P
[04:33] <Keybuk> but if there's an old, historic, closed, resolved, sync request, for an older version; you should file a new one, not reopen the old one :)
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[04:33] <Hobbsee> gotcha
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[04:35] <Nafallo> haha
[04:35] <Nafallo> K* people! :-)
[04:35] <zul> kde people?
[04:35] <Nafallo> rather archive admins ;-)
[04:36] <Hobbsee> K people meaning Kamion and Keybuk, i was referring to.
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[04:36] <Hobbsee> then again, i see there are a few more of them
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[04:37] <Nafallo> Hobbsee: they might be equally scary :-P
[04:37] <Hobbsee> Nafallo: they might.  i've not seen the others in action much
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[04:38] <blueyed> In which package is /usr/bin/pycentral? I want to file a bug with a patch that prevented dist-upgrade here.
[04:39] <_ion> apt-file search pycentral
[04:39] <blueyed> nothing..
[04:39] <Nafallo> python-central maybe? :-)
=== pygi nods :)
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[04:39] <blueyed> thanks.
[04:40] <terlmann> this new gaim version is really useful.
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[04:41] <Keybuk> I read that as "really awful", and was about to agree with you
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[04:41] <Nafallo> :-)
[04:41] <seb128> Keybuk: do you know an easy way to get the device path from the UUID in C?
[04:42] <pitti> seb128: readlink(/dev/disk/by-uuid/$UUID) perhaps?
[04:42] <Keybuk> define "device path" ?
[04:42] <seb128> Keybuk: gnomevfs uses getmntent() and mntent->mnt_fsname to get it which gives paths like "UUID=984a612e-39f3-4be5-9abf-4879931460fc"
[04:42] <Keybuk> if /dev, what pitti said
[04:42] <Keybuk> ok
[04:42] <seb128> pitti, Keybuk: thank you
[04:42] <terlmann> but the beta version included with edgy is missing one thing.... the progress bars.but then again gaim  never told you much to begin with anyway.
[04:42] <Keybuk> if in C, you can also link to libvolumeid
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[04:49] <gnomefreak> is there a python-gtk2 for python 2.5? if so did it change names?
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[04:50] <seb128> gnomefreak: yes and no
[04:53] <gnomefreak> the depends on that package showed python (<< 2.5) was why i asked
[04:55] <seb128> gnomefreak: that's because the current build ships only 2.4
[04:55] <gnomefreak> oh ok
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[04:56] <seb128> gnomefreak: do you need 2.5?
[04:56] <seb128> gnomefreak: 2.4 will stay default on edgy
[04:56] <gnomefreak> no thats fine was wondering cause i went to grab it and saw it as 2.4
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[04:58] <BenC> Keybuk, Kamion: could either of you kick l-r-m out of dep-wait on i386, please?
[04:59] <Kamion> I can't, not a buildd admin
[04:59] <BenC> I thought you had magical powers, sorry :)
[04:59] <Keybuk> kicked
[04:59] <BenC> thanks
[05:01] <BenC> getting close to release, you really start to notice the difference between a regular job, and getting paid to do open source...your users become your managers, and ride you constantly :)
[05:01] <Kamion> BenC: in some areas :)
[05:01] <Kamion> launchpad-buildd-admin is the particular variety of deityhood you need here
[05:02] <fabbione> Kamion: lvm-common is up. The changelog looks scary but it's just very detailed on how to make a loop on 2 commands :)
[05:03] <fabbione> BenC: did you get my email with the objdumps ?
[05:04] <BenC> fabbione: I got email, let me see if it contains the objdumps
[05:04] <fabbione> they are in attachment
[05:04] <fabbione> it's crystal clear that they are different.. but why.. i have no idea
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[05:11] <blueyed> Nafallo: does "apt-file search pycentral" work on your system? I'll file a bug otherwise, because it does not find it here.. also "apt-file show python-central" does not work.
[05:11] <janimo> Keybuk, Kamion: system-config-printer is built can you please let the binary through as well? thanks
[05:12] <Nafallo> blueyed: I don't have the app install I guess.
[05:13] <minghua> bluefoxicy: try "dpkg -S /usr/bin/pycentral" and "dpkg -L python-central" instead
[05:13] <Keybuk> janimo: done
[05:13] <dholbach> janimo: garnacho is in #gst
[05:15] <BenC> fabbione: I have a sneaky suspicion this isn't a tool chain bug
[05:15] <janimo> Keybuk: dholbach thanks
[05:16] <BenC> fabbione: Working on it...I should know in about 10 minutes
[05:16] <fabbione> BenC: ok
[05:16] <fabbione> BenC: my Niagara is up for testing..
[05:16] <blueyed> minghua: yes, found it. But I think it's a bug(?) with apt-file.. can anyone confirm?
[05:16] <fabbione> BenC: btw.. laotse left AOHELL
[05:16] <BenC> yeah he mentioned that the other day
[05:17] <BenC> I wouldn't have stayed there as long as he did :)
[05:17] <minghua> blueyed: did you do "apt-file update" (or something similar) recently?
[05:17] <fabbione> ehhe
[05:17] <blueyed> minghua: sure. even "purge" to be sure.
[05:18] <minghua> blueyed: no idea then.  I don't use apt-file myself, sorry
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[05:21] <BenC> $ cmp dapper-first/ultra edgy-first/ultra
[05:21] <BenC> $
[05:21] <dholbach> what do I do in case of a kernel panic? what info is useful for a bug report?
[05:22] <BenC> fabbione: the executable generated on dapper and edgy are exactly the same, so it's either elftoaout or the dd munging that's broken
[05:23] <fabbione> BenC: feeeh
[05:23] <fabbione> no old on.. elftoaout has to be ok... otherwise netboot would be horribly broken
[05:23] <fabbione> and i did test that
[05:23] <shining> dholbach: is it reproduceable? and is it using ubuntu kernel or vanilla too?
[05:23] <fabbione> but we didn't change the dd munging either in ages and if the binaries are the same i don't see why it should change
[05:24] <dholbach> newest ubuntu kernel, reproducable
[05:24] <BenC> fabbione: elftoaout is ok, generated binary from that is exactly the same as well
[05:24] <dholbach> (on amd64 k8)
[05:24] <BenC> has to be the dd munging
[05:24] <BenC> which is black magic I never understood very well
[05:26] <dholbach> it says something about agp_amd64_probe and agp_generic_create_gatt_table
[05:26] <dholbach> BenC: is a photo of the screen the best I can do for a bug report on kernel panic?
[05:27] <azeem> dholbach: no, you can transcribe it to a machine-readable form :)
=== dholbach slaps azeem
[05:27] <dholbach> azeem: man... :-)
[05:28] <_ion> Hehe.
[05:29] <BenC> dholbach: that'll do
[05:29] <dholbach> ok
[05:30] <BenC> fabbione: here ya go
[05:30] <BenC> -       $(DD) if=/dev/zero of=ultra.b bs=4 count=1 seek=127
[05:30] <BenC> +       $(DD) if=/dev/zero of=ultra.b bs=4 count=1 seek=127 conv=notrunc
[05:30] <BenC> that's in first/Makefile
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[05:31] <BenC> fabbione: That should fix it
[05:31] <BenC> well, it does fix it for me
[05:31] <fabbione> BenC: ok i will test on Niagara in a minute.. it's booting now
[05:31] <fabbione> for some reasons the initramfs has been autobloated again
[05:31] <fabbione> even with the fixed glibc
[05:32] <Kamion> fabbione: hmm, what version of console-setup were you installing in bug 61723?
[05:32] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 61723 in console-setup "[PPC]  distupgrade from dapper to edgy kills X keyboard" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61723
[05:32] <Kamion> because the init script already checks -z $DISPLAY
[05:32] <fabbione> Kamion: what was in the archive yesterday around 3pm UTC
[05:33] <fabbione> 3:30
[05:33] <Kamion> bizarre!
[05:33] <fabbione> i distupgraded after the meeting
[05:33] <Nafallo> pitti: invoke-rc.d: initscript apport, action "start" failed.
[05:33] <Kamion> I made that change on 11 September
[05:33] <Keybuk> fabbione: check dpkg.log
[05:33] <fabbione> Kamion, Keybuk: ok.. just a minute that i boot the ppc
[05:33] <pitti> Nafallo: uh, can you set -x the script and check? and file a bug please? (I have to leave RSN)
[05:34] <Kamion> ta
[05:34] <Nafallo> pitti: oki
[05:34] <Kamion> fabbione: also, do you have a /lib/debian-installer directory on that system for any crazy reason?
[05:34] <dholbach> BenC: it's bug 61898
[05:34] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 61898 in linux-source-2.6.17 "Kernel Panic - agp_amd64_init" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61898
[05:34] <fabbione> Kamion: will check.. machine is coming up
[05:35] <fabbione> Kamion: no /lib/debian-installer (note i did a text install from netboot)
[05:36] <Kamion> yeah, shouldn't matter
[05:36] <fabbione> 2006-09-21 19:19:01 install console-setup <none> 1.7ubuntu10
[05:36] <Kamion> so I know that running setupcon within X corrupts X; that's an X bug
[05:36] <Kamion> but that version of console-setup definitely shouldn't try
[05:36] <Kamion> weirdness
[05:37] <fabbione> Kamion: dunno.. anything i can do other than reinstall dapper and try?
[05:37] <Kamion> fabbione: you did have $DISPLAY set during the upgrade, didn't you?
[05:37] <fabbione> no
[05:37] <fabbione> su -
[05:37] <Kamion> oh!
[05:37] <fabbione> echo $DISPLAY
[05:37] <fabbione> 
[05:37] <Kamion> well, that would explain it
[05:37] <Kamion> any other way to find out whether we're running in an X terminal so that I can avoid buggering it?
[05:37] <fabbione> you can generally check if X is running... ?
[05:38] <fabbione> if it's running don't bugger it..
[05:38] <Kamion> but it should work fine if you switch to a vc
[05:38] <Kamion> I think
[05:38] <Mithrandir> Kamion: look at what `tty` returns?
[05:38] <Kamion> hmm, I guess maybe it wouldn't
[05:38] <BenC> dholbach: ok, thanks
[05:38] <_ion> perhaps case $(tty) ... /dev/tty*) ...
[05:38] <Kamion> that's already done in setupcon but we had to override it for other reasons
[05:38] <dholbach> BenC: just tell me, if you should need anything else
[05:38] <Kamion> maybe I can kill that override, if I'm careful
[05:39] <Kamion> I'll test it out, thanks
[05:40] <fabbione> Kamion: if it's really required i can reinstall dapper on my ppc and test it again.. but i would really love to avoid that if i can
[05:41] <Kamion> fabbione: no, no need, thanks
[05:41] <Kamion> it's not powerpc-specific, and can be tested without the need for an upgrade from dapper
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[05:42] <fabbione> Kamion: ok perfect! thanks a lot
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[05:44] <rod> Hi, can I ask here about the livecd installer of edgy?
[05:45] <Kamion> rod: what's up?
[05:46] <rod> liveinstaller fires up gparted which only sees one of the two disks... fdisk sees both discs... Any ideas how to troubleshoot this?
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[05:46] <Kamion> I'd strace gparted and see what it's doing on startup
[05:46] <Kamion> I seem to remember seeing a bug about that
[05:46] <smurf> Kamion: http://netz.smurf.noris.de/keymapper_0.5.3-7.diff.gz
[05:47] <smurf> Kamion: two changes:
[05:47] <Kamion> smurf: thanks! could you mail that to me? I'm about to go and move house
[05:47] <Kamion> which is liable to drive keymapper right out of my head
[05:47] <smurf> - prioritize the equivalent-letter file so that early stuff is first
[05:48] <smurf> - add a new option asking whether something is on a normal-or-shift key (which is tried first, so should be the "normal" case)
[05:48] <Kamion> note that there's a keymapper 0.5.3-6 in the Debian NEW queue
[05:48] <pitti> Riddell: new edgy langpacks are up; can you please test them and give me feedback via mail?
[05:48] <smurf> Kamion: bah ;-)
[05:48] <Kamion> I can send it to you if you want to merge it
[05:48] <smurf> Kamion: I'll go and merge that
[05:48] <smurf> Kamion: please do
[05:48] <Kamion> you won't be able to read it, hang on
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[05:48] <pitti> seb128: same here, can you please test new edgy langpacks from my daily page?
[05:48] <Riddell> pitti: yes, but not immediately
[05:48] <Kamion> smurf: I've stuck it in http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/tmp/
[05:48] <fabbione> BenC: that didn't help... still no S
[05:48] <pitti> Riddell: I have to leave in 10 minutes
[05:49] <Kamion> feel free to revert the Maintainer/Uploader change if you want :) it just seemed more appropriate since I'm actually in the Debian keyring and IIRC you retired
[05:49] <Riddell> pitti: ok, will e-mail you
[05:49] <Riddell> pitti: URL?
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[05:49] <BenC> fabbione: hrmm
[05:49] <seb128> pitti: ok
[05:49] <pitti> Riddell: didn't change :) deb http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/langpacks/daily/edgy/ ./
[05:49] <Kamion> smurf: presumably that new option will need a cdebconf-keystep change
[05:49] <Riddell> thanks pitti 
[05:50] <Kamion> oh, damn, I remember why console-setup had to use setupcon --force on boot - upstart doesn't (always) give it a tty
[05:50] <fabbione> BenC: let me try to objdump what was built..
[05:50] <Kamion> I think I should just make it not run on upgrade
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[05:51] <_ion> kamion: Would "exec </dev/console >/dev/console 2>&1" (as in checkroot.sh) perhaps work?
[05:52] <_ion> kamion: At least the tty command seems to output /dev/console after that.
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[05:53] <_ion> Some kind of a check for X should naturally be before that.
[05:53] <rod> is debian-installer in de reps the same as the ncurses ubuntu installer?
[05:55] <Nafallo> rod: the graphical uses it as well IIRC :-). Kamion maintains that for Ubuntu.
[05:55] <BenC> fabbione: This is weird, if I run the commands that are run under make by hand, it builds fine (exact file), if I use make, it builds wrong
[05:55] <fabbione> BenC: WTF
[05:55] <BenC> fabbione: even if I put the 4 commands that take ultra exec and turns it into ultra.b into a script, it creates a broken image too
[05:55] <rod> Nafallo: i apt-got debian-installer ... do you know how to start this? lol
[05:56] <rod> cant find no man pages or nothing
[05:56] <Nafallo> rod: no :-)
[05:56] <fabbione> BenC: something broken in the environment?
[05:56] <Nafallo> rod: you want Kamion for that I guess ;-)
[05:56] <fabbione> BenC: make does execute /bin/sh -$something on each make like
[05:56] <fabbione> BenC: and now that one is pointing to dash
[05:57] <Nafallo> BenC, fabbione: maybe bash vs dash again? :-)
[05:57] <BenC> AH HA!!!
[05:57] <BenC> it's fucking dash
[05:57] <Nafallo> yes ;-)
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[05:57] <_ion> Add "SHELL = /bin/bash" to a broken Makefile.
[05:57] <_ion> (IIRC)
[05:57] <BenC> echo -n -e '\340' | dd of=ultra.aout bs=1 count=1 seek=7 conv=notrunc
[05:57] <fabbione> BenC: does it work now?
[05:57] <BenC> fabbione: yeah, add SHELL=/bin/bash to Rules.make
[05:58] <fabbione> BenC: can i remove the patch to first/Makefile ?
[05:58] <BenC> the echo -n -e '\340' doesn't work right in dash
[05:58] <BenC> fabbione: yeah
[05:58] <fabbione> BenC: i wonder if this same issue was screwing up the big initramfs
[05:59] <fabbione> no.. that can't be the same
[05:59] <BenC> dash outputs "-e \340" and bash just outputs "\340"
[05:59] <BenC> why does dash have echo built-in anyway
[06:00] <_ion> That specific problem can probably be fixed by changing echo to /bin/echo
[06:00] <fabbione> diff -Naurd silo-1.4.12.orig/ silo-1.4.12 > debian/patches/30-silo_use_bash_because_dash_sucks.patch
[06:00] <BenC> see, if you remove -e from the normal echo, it doesn't do the \ escaping
[06:01] <BenC> and in dash, it does do it without the -e
[06:01] <BenC> that's just broken
[06:01] <_ion> Oh.
[06:01] <BenC> one of them isn't working right
[06:01] <smurf> Kamion: emailed
[06:01] <_ion> What does POSIX say?
[06:01] <BenC> no idea
[06:02] <fabbione> BenC: installing/rebooting now
[06:03] <Keybuk> http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009695399/utilities/echo.html
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[06:03] <BenC> wife wont be happy about that
[06:04] <Keybuk> (POSIX say that echo takes no arguments
[06:04] <Keybuk> uh, options
[06:04] <BenC> A string to be written to standard output. If the first operand is -n, or if any of the operands contain a backslash ( '\' ) character, the results are implementation-defined.
[06:04] <BenC> that sucks
[06:04] <Keybuk> ah, yes, it does allow for -n only)
[06:04] <Keybuk> if you want escape sequences, use printf, damnit
[06:05] <BenC> yeah, seems printf is most appropriate
[06:09] <zul> allhands?
[06:10] <BenC> company
[06:10] <zul> ah
[06:16] <kristog> interesting to see an italian with german name :) trentino?
[06:17] <Nafallo> kristog: I think you wanted that on -bugs :-P
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[06:20] <kristog> Nafallo: argh :)
[06:20] <kristog> thank you
[06:20] <Nafallo> :-)
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[06:26] <Nafallo> fabbione: see you :-)
[06:27] <lamont> hrm... stupid question time...  how do I format a vfat partition
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[06:28] <jdub> Keybuk: nice entry
[06:29] <Riddell> seb128: language packs work for me, do they work for you?
[06:30] <Keybuk> jdub: which?
[06:30] <seb128> Riddell: yep
[06:30] <Riddell> seb128: great, I'll poke the dudes to upload
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[06:31] <seb128> Riddell: thank you
[06:31] <jdub> Keybuk: TDD + XP
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[06:33] <Keybuk> jdub: that's an old one :p
[06:34] <jdub> Keybuk: for some reaosn you spammed planet, and i didn't remember thta entry ;)
[06:34] <Keybuk> changed blog backends
[06:36] <Keybuk> BenC: got a moment for an odd bug?
[06:37] <BenC> Keybuk: sure
[06:38] <Keybuk> bug #61812
[06:38] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 61812 in upstart "computer won't restart after upstart is installed" [Untriaged,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61812
[06:39] <Keybuk> he blames upstart, but then people have been blaming that for all sorts of things
[06:39] <Keybuk> the fact he gets "event queue paused" means that reboot was run
[06:39] <Keybuk> and the monitor goes black
[06:39] <Keybuk> which implies to me it's rebooting in the kernel too
[06:41] <BenC> Keybuk: sounds like a acpi issue, reassign it to linux-source
[06:42] <BenC> I have a few that I know are kernel and not upstart
[06:43] <Keybuk> done
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[07:12] <Kamion> _ion: I've solved it a different way, but thanks - the problem was really that the check for X is too hard to do reliably given how badly X explodes if it goes wrong
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[07:27] <_ion> kamion: How did you solve it?
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[07:27] <_ion> Grep process list for X? :-)
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[07:33] <BenC> Riddell: ping
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[07:39] <iwj> mdz, Kamion: ping, we need to talk about update-manager and Breaks
[07:39] <doko_> Kamion, Keybuk: please could you approve the various kernel and lrm binaries in NEW before the weekend, probably saves us some bug reports
[07:41] <Riddell> hi BenC 
[07:41] <BenC> Riddell: this ruby bug is really whacked out
[07:41] <Riddell> BenC: I entirely agree
[07:42] <BenC> Riddell: I can reproduce it on davis, but if I copy that same binary to my ppc64, it runs fine...if I build the miniruby on davis as a static bin, it still crashes on davis, but still runs find on my ppc64
[07:42] <BenC> s/find/fine/
[07:42] <BenC> so it's not like it's a toolchain issue or even a ruby issue
[07:42] <BenC> there's no gdb on davis, so I can't tell where it's crashing
[07:43] <Riddell> poke a sysadmin to install it
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[07:43] <BenC> elmo: ping
[07:43] <elmo> BenC: done
[07:43] <BenC> elmo: you rock, thanks
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[07:44] <Nafallo> :-)
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[07:45] <iwj> pitti: This is really crazy.  I can't get this bug to come back at all.
[07:45] <iwj> I'm going to upload the firefox that seems to WFM now.
[07:47] <mdz> iwj: pong
[07:48] <BenC> Riddell: looks like it's crashing in some sort of longjump call
[07:49] <BenC> why would it crash on those Xserve G5's and not my POWER or G5 machine
[07:49] <iwj> mdz: Ah, hello.
[07:49] <iwj> See Malone #54234.
[07:49] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 54234 in update-manager "update-manager for edgy needs to upgrade dpkg/apt before calculating the upgrade to support the new "breaks" - otherwise the upgrade may fail" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/54234
[07:49] <iwj> mvo and I think these problems with update-manager seem to be getting rather out of hand, particularly for this stage of the release.
[07:50] <iwj> I think we need to have some further input from people who are more familiar with all the other constraints, and in general having further clueful input would help.
[07:50] <elmo> BenC: different kernel?
[07:51] <iwj> mvo has unfortunately just disappeared for a bit.
[07:51] <elmo> BenC: davis is running dapper's kernel, but you're working in an edgy chroot - maybe the kernel got fixed/changed?
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[07:51] <mvo> iwj: I'm still here, also half-way into the shower :)
[07:51] <elmo> BenC: also davis is SMP - are your machines?
[07:51] <elmo> (the buildds all are too)
[07:51] <iwj> mvo: That sounds convenient for the electronics in your terminal :-).
[07:53] <mvo> iwj: its fortunate that we don't use webcam :p
[07:55] <iwj> pitti: There you go.  I rebuilt epiphany from breezy against it and it just works.  yelp needs a one-line fix.
[07:55] <iwj> mdz: ...
[07:59] <tkamppeter> Riddell, are you there?
[07:59] <mdz> iwj: I'll have a look
[07:59] <iwj> Thanks.
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[08:00] <Riddell> tkamppeter: hi
[08:00] <tkamppeter> Yesterday you talked about a problem of printing with KDE
[08:00] <tkamppeter> What is exactly the problem there?
[08:00] <Riddell> tkamppeter: I don't know, I've not looked at it yet, I've just been told you can't add new printers in KDE
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[08:02] <tkamppeter> I know about a problem that with the switch of CUPS to 1.2 there was no access more to the list of available printers
[08:02] <tkamppeter> and this was due to the new domain socket support of CUPS 1.2.
[08:02] <Riddell> tkamppeter: well we had cups 1.2 in dapper and it worked there
[08:03] <tkamppeter> You could see the printers in the File->Print dialog, you could actually print, and you could add printers?
[08:03] <mdz> iwj: commented
[08:03] <Riddell> tkamppeter: yes
[08:04] <iwj> mdz: AIUI mvo's problem with putting them on the CD is CD space.
[08:05] <mdz> iwj: how much space?
[08:05] <iwj> I don't know.
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[08:06] <mvo> ~4MB for i386
[08:06] <mvo> I don't have figures for amd64/ppc yet
[08:06] <mdz> mvo: surely we can find space for that
[08:06] <tkamppeter> I have no Ubuntu box with KDE handy, I am trying now on Mandriva's Cooker (KDE 3.5.4, CUPS 1.2.3, CUPS also with the Debian patches)
[08:06] <iwj> mvo: I take it there's no other difficulty ?
[08:07] <mvo> well
[08:07] <mvo> they need to be build somehow (dapper-backports is not working AFAIK)
[08:07] <mvo> or build them "by-hand"
[08:08] <mvo> and integrate it onto the CD build script
[08:08] <mvo> but other than that :) no
[08:08] <fdsd> hey guys, Anyone know why ubuntu ppc live cds spit this out at boot:  [ 39.971898} PCI: cannot allocate resource region 0 of device 0001:10:18.0, Iv tried to modify the kernel used various kernels from 2.6.15 to 2.6.17, any ideas how I can make it not output these errors since the livecds work perfectly otherwise
[08:08] <iwj> I think we should build them by hand now for testing and of course we should expect backports to be fixed by then.
[08:08] <mvo> right
[08:08] <iwj> integrate> SMOP, surely ?
[08:08] <mvo> the whole network based stuff is working now
[08:09] <iwj> Excellent.
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[08:09] <mvo> teaching it to look for the backports on the cdrom is not hard
[08:09] <iwj> I thought there was already an arrangement for `just a tarball' ?
[08:09] <mvo> integration onto the cdbuild, I don't know :/ 
[08:10] <mvo> yeah, I did some hacking on this before for the python arch-indep tarball
[08:10] <dholbach> good night everybody - have a great WE!
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[08:10] <mvo> I think it shouldn't be hard to get this done for the rest too, but I need to investigate first
[08:10] <mvo> bye dholbach
[08:10] <iwj> dholbach: G'night.
[08:10] <mvo> I will do this tonight
[08:11] <dholbach> bye mvo, iwj
[08:11] <iwj> I'm sort of worried that this seems to be drifting a bit.  Do we have a coherent plan with a list of all the things that need doing ?  I guess I'm volunteering to make one.
[08:12] <mvo> I will leave now for about 1h for dinner+shower etc. then I continue on this. I will read scrollback if there is more discussion
[08:12] <iwj> OK.  I will be departing soon and won't be back here until Monday.
[08:12] <mvo> iwj: well, the plan is a) get apt/dpkg/python-apt into dapper-backports b) integrate the backports into the cd build c) teach dist-upgrader to deal with the stuff on the cd
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[08:13] <mvo> iwj: but I would certainly appreciate if you could add this to the bugreport in a more coherent way :)
[08:13] <tkamppeter> On Mandriva 2007 adding printers with KDE works without problems.
[08:13] <Ubugtu> Mandriva bug 2007 in Installation "Switching to alternate screens during install crashes X" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]  http://qa.mandriva.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2007
[08:13] <iwj> OK, well, why don't I volunteer to find out about (b) if you tell me where this tarball is going to be made.
[08:13] <iwj> bugreport> Will do that now.
[08:14] <tkamppeter> Ubugtu, shut up!
[08:15] <mvo> iwj: the tarball is added via debian-cd, see "bzr get http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/bzr/debian-cd/ubuntu/"
[08:15] <mvo> iwj: then "tools/edgy/upgrade.sh"
[08:15] <iwj> So the difficulty is getting the backports into the tarball ?
[08:16] <mvo> no, I think we shouldn't put it into the tarbal itself, but rather add a additional directory to the CD
[08:16] <mvo> afterall sysadmin who want to do the upgrade by-hand will need it too
[08:16] <iwj> They can untar the tarball.
[08:16] <iwj> That was the point of having a tarball.
[08:16] <mvo> well, not exactly
[08:16] <mvo> the tarball has (currently) arch-indep files
[08:16] <iwj> Wasn't it ?  That there would be one thing with all the update-manager bits and bobs in it ?
[08:17] <mvo> and I see no point in taring up deb, there is no benefit (unless I overlook something)
[08:17] <iwj> You want a separate arch-dep tarball ?
[08:17] <mvo> no :)
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[08:17] <mvo> just the debs in e.g. CDROM_ROOT/upgrades
[08:17] <iwj> Well, it turns them into a single file which is nice and tractable compared to a pile of stuff with a particular structure.
[08:17] <mvo> or something like this
[08:17] <iwj> Since we already have stuff for downloading this tarball or getting it from CD and for building it and so on.
[08:17] <mvo> IIRC a old debian cd had something like this, maybe potato?
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[08:18] <iwj> But if having a pile of files rather than a tarball isn't a problem then fine.
[08:19] <mvo> right, well. maybe just CDROM_ROOT/dists/edgy/main/dist-upgrader/binary-$arch and then put the debs into that?
[08:19] <Riddell> tkamppeter: it may well be just some kubuntu users, as I say I've not tried it myself
[08:19] <Riddell> and I'm about to leave for ireland so I can't just now
[08:19] <iwj> mvo: Does it matter ?  Just do something, surely.
[08:20] <mvo> iwj: to a certain extend. the current dist-upgrader code assumes it is apt-get'able in the sense that it has a valid Packages.gz file 
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[08:21] <mvo> iwj: this makes the whole thing easier as I can reuse the acquire code in apt/python-apt to get the files onto the local-fs
[08:21] <iwj> mvo: Err, OK.  I don't know about this.  What I mean is, just do what you think is best ?  Is there any difficulty here ?
[08:21] <tkamppeter> I have done "apt-get install kdebase" on Ubuntu now, to add KDE and then I have started "kcontrol" from the command line.
[08:21] <mvo> iwj: SMOP + testing
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[08:21] <tkamppeter> Then I have entered the print manager, chosen admin mode (button at the bottom)
[08:21] <iwj> Right.
[08:22] <tkamppeter> As password I have entered my own password.
[08:22] <mvo> I keep hacking on it tonight, I expect the first usable version that fully supports Breaks tonight
=== mvo is away now for real
[08:23] <iwj> Goodnight, and thanks.
[08:23] <tkamppeter> Then I have chosen "Add printer" at the top and followed the wizard (For HP printers select entries under "Others" in "Local printer", to get HPLIP support)
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[08:23] <tkamppeter> Test page worked, queue was created. No problem.
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[08:26] <iwj> Right, that's me gone as well.  Goodnight everyone, and thanks mdz.
[08:28] <fdsd> anyone know how to generate ascii art so I can make an ubuntu logo for the powerpc ofboot.b file?
[08:29] <tkamppeter> Under Ubuntu you even do not need admin mode of the print manager, as the first (and also other privileged users can create queues as normal user), so no passwords need to be entered to create queues with KDE.
[08:30] <mdz> night iwj
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[08:32] <_ion> nafallo: bug #61925
[08:32] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 61925 in mplayer "doesn't remove obsolete /etc/mplayer/codecs.conf" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61925
[08:32] <Nafallo> _ion: I know, it's a bit more tricky than just removing :-)
[08:33] <_ion> nafallo: Did you read the script i posted?
[08:33] <Nafallo> _ion: ah, will do :-)
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[08:34] <Riddell> tkamppeter: so sounding promising :)
[08:36] <fdsd> hey guys, what replaced rc.local in edgy knot3?
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[08:40] <Nafallo> _ion: nice, thanks :-)
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[08:51] <BenC> elmo: My POWER ibm box is SMP
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[08:51] <BenC> I can try booting a dapper kernel
[08:53] <robertj_> is the new compa package for upstart going to be default for edgy?
[08:53] <robertj_> %s/compa/compat
[08:56] <Keybuk> it is default now
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[09:02] <tkamppeter> Riddell, seems that the bug is between the user's chair and his keyboard.
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[09:05] <BenC> Riddell, elmo: Sweet, it's a kernel bug...if I boot into 2.6.15-27,it suddenly segfaults
[09:05] <BenC> very odd that happens though
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[09:07] <mikefoo> I have a 14 drive raid5 array and its doing ~90Mbit/s seems to be bottle necking, a simply ls on the array hangs for 2-3 seconds. It is 95% wrties, is this the sheer bottle neck of raid5 due to all thr writes?
[09:09] <Nafallo> mikefoo: Hi! This channel is for developing of Ubuntu. You might find an answer on our support channel: #ubuntu.
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[09:40] <Burgwork> evand, ping
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[10:27] <Kamion> _ion: no, I made console-setup just not reconfigure the console on upgrade, deferring it until the next time you boot, and print a message to that effect
[10:28] <jdong> Kamion: regarding 'black hole backports', what do we need to do to get them to show up?
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[10:28] <jdong> (i.e. the ones that binary-rejected)
[10:29] <jdong> xchat, kopete, I'm most interested in at the moment
[10:29] <jdong> they build successfully but never made it out alive :)
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[10:30] <Fjodor> BenC: Sorry to say, but last entry on bug 36014 still doesn't resolve it for me...
[10:30] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 36014 in linux-source-2.6.15 "kernel can't scale cpu frequency" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/36014
[10:31] <BenC> Fjodor: ok
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[10:32] <Kamion> jdong: I should be able to resurrect them, given ten minutes of poking about
[10:33] <Fjodor> BenC: Has something specifically for this been done to the next version? I notice that current archive sources are 8.22, but changelog goes to 9.23. Should I get my hopes up? ;-)
[10:33] <Kamion> I've done it before anyway
[10:33] <jdong> Kamion: sure, no hurry at all
[10:34] <pygi> Keybuk: you forgot libburn :)
[10:34] <BenC> Fjodor: 9.23 is uploaded
[10:34] <BenC> Fjodor: we had a lot of acpi updates that I was hoping would take care of it
[10:34] <Kamion> jdong: does this list look plausible: amarok bluefish checkinstall config-manager debootstrap emacs-snapshot flashplugin-nonfree gcin gxine kbarcode kbfx krusader ktorrent mod-cband mplayerplug-in powersave rsibreak seahorse spamassassin taglib xchat xmoto
[10:34] <Keybuk> pygi: it's the list of things that *I* want to see ;)
[10:34] <Keybuk> I was vaguely hoping other people would start blogging about what *they* want to see
[10:34] <jdong> Kamion: that does look entirely plausible :)
[10:34] <pygi> Keybuk: I'm not on planet :P
[10:34] <Kamion> that's the list of rejected packages with version numbers matching *~dapper*
[10:35] <Keybuk> pygi: add yourself :
[10:35] <Kamion> the oldest is 20060824
[10:35] <Keybuk> :p
[10:35] <pygi> Keybuk: perhaps :)
[10:35] <Fjodor> BenC: Ok, I'll grab that and check then :-)
[10:35] <jdong> Kamion: though somethings [amarok]  might be superceded already anyway
[10:35] <Kamion> I think those should be discarded
[10:35] <Kamion> (automatically)
[10:35] <jdong> yeah
[10:35] <jdong> ok
[10:35] <jdong> then fire away :)
[10:35] <Kamion> Keybuk: sanity-check? (if I reprocess old binary uploads some of which no longer have source in the archive, they'll be rejected?)
[10:36] <pygi> Keybuk: so now you are making add myself to the planet :P
[10:36] <Keybuk> Kamion: not that I'm aware
=== Kamion wonders why there are a bunch of empty directories from (only) 20060823 in /srv/launchpad.net/builddmaster/incoming/
[10:37] <Kamion> Keybuk: or otherwise safely ignored
[10:37] <Kamion> maybe I'd better read the code
[10:37] <Fjodor> BenC: Mind you that packages.ubuntu.com is still at 8.22, but offers .dsc and tar.gz for 9.23. I'll get those and dpkg-source -x and dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot
[10:37] <BenC> Fjodor: the 9.23 binaries are on archive.ubuntu.com
[10:38] <jdong> Kamion: well, I know for sure the dpkg-scanpackage or whatever code that you'd use to build a home-brew APT repository ignores older versions automagically
[10:38] <Fjodor> BenC: Great. Didn't know of that one. Thanks
[10:38] <BenC> Fjodor: it's the one that apt uses :)
[10:38] <Fjodor> :-)
[10:38] <Keybuk> Kamion: it'd be worth trying <g>
[10:38] <Keybuk> let me know how that goes (tm)
[10:38] <BenC> Fjodor: apt-get update; apt-get install linux-generic
[10:39] <LaserJock> who's NEW day is it?
[10:39] <Kamion> Keybuk: ah, there *is* a reject for source not being found, and it checks the version
[10:39] <Kamion> LaserJock: mine, gimme a few minutes
[10:39] <jdong> BenC: I still haven't gotten -9 yet
[10:39] <Kamion> jdong: um, yeah, Soyuz is a bit more complicated than that :)
[10:39] <BenC> weird, it's all built
[10:39] <jdong> Kamion: I'd imagine :)
[10:39] <Kamion> I don't want to explode the db, but it looks like uploading ancient binaries is perfectly safe
[10:39] <jdong> BenC: linux-image-2.6.17-9-generic has no installation candidate
[10:39] <LaserJock> Kamion: np, you guys both start with K so I can never remember who does which day ;-)
[10:39] <Fjodor> BenC: Ok
[10:40] <Kamion> Keybuk: (fortunately, I know where most of the interesting rejects live)
[10:40] <Fjodor> BenC: Ah, there you have it. I wanted the source to build it myself :-)
[10:41] <BenC> Fjodor: if you like uneeded pain, be my guest :)
[10:41] <Fjodor> BenC: Actually, I do, but that's just me :-)
[10:41] <BenC> Fjodor: be warned, I don't support self built stuff
[10:42] <BenC> if you want help with the bug, you need to run what I upload at least for tests and debug that I request in the bug report
[10:42] <Fjodor> BenC: Ok, I'll keep in mind, but hey, it might just work, and then I figure you wouldn't mind a positive status report, right?
[10:42] <BenC> Fjodor: correct :)
[10:44] <BenC> jdong: I see -9-powerpc
[10:44] <BenC> wonder if i386 is still lagging behind
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[10:45] <jdong> BenC: the metapackages are all there and ready to go, but the actual packages aren't in the archives yet
[10:45] <jdong> don't new kernels have to be approved through the NEW queue?
[10:47] <Kamion> if the ABI changes, yes
[10:47] <Kamion> i386 is probably lagging, because it wasn't there when I did some NEW processing earlier
[10:47] <Kamion> I'll do it after this backport MADNESS
[10:47] <Kamion> commands like this should not be required on production systems :P
[10:49] <tseng> infinity: can you please look at beagle 0.2.9 builds? some archs had chroot problems
[10:51] <Kamion> BenC: um, I don't need -server-di udebs
[10:51] <Kamion> BenC: I want -386-di and -generic-di
[10:52] <Kamion> I'll process this for now of course, but I think that should be changed
[10:53] <BenC> Kamion: wow, I totally screwed that up
[10:54] <BenC> Kamion: fixed in repo, so next upload
[10:54] <Kamion> thanks
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[10:58] <Kamion> BenC: that probably goes for l-r-m too, although i386 for that isn't in NEW yet of course
[10:58] <BenC> ok
[10:59] <BenC> any one know why i386 was so backlogged last night?
[10:59] <BenC> all the other architectures were done build the new kernel before i386 even started
[10:59] <Keybuk> BenC: openoffice, openoffice, oh, and  another openoffice
[11:00] <Kamion> jdong: ok, I think I've managed to resurrect all those backports binary uploads
[11:00] <shining> how long did oo build take ?
[11:01] <Nafallo> Keybuk: dokoDoS indeed ;-)
[11:01] <Kamion> shining: you can see that information in the launchpad web UI, if you grub around
[11:01] <Nafallo> shining: 14+12h IIRC
[11:01] <Kamion> there's a build log for each binary - somewhere around there
[11:02] <shining> Nafallo: lovely
[11:02] <Nafallo> isn't it? ;-)
[11:03] <shining> I'm curious if it fails sometimes, because that would be even more fun I guess
[11:04] <Nafallo> shining: it does, and yesterday I think it built and then swallowed the binaries or something like that :-)
[11:04] <jdong> Kamion: thanks very much :)
[11:05] <BenC> Keybuk: Do I need to put a "kill openoffice build" script in the kernel source? :)
[11:06] <shining> lol
[11:06] <shining> and yep, actually it seems there has been quite a few problems, already ubuntu6
[11:08] <jdong> shining: namely, unpluggin the red lights on the dashboard (SSP) because their constant blinking is annoying us?
[11:08] <jdong> turn on SSP for the packages that don't buffer overflow, and shut off SSP when it trips :)
[11:08] <Keybuk> BenC: wouldn't work
[11:08] <Keybuk> obviously
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[11:12] <_ion> nVidia released a beta driver with AIGLX support. http://www.nzone.com/object/nzone_downloads_linux_display_x86_1.0-9625.html
[11:12] <_ion> GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap support, to be exact.
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[11:12] <_ion> Is there a slightest chance of that getting to edgy?
[11:13] <Seveas> mjg59, you still awake?
[11:13] <jdong> _ion: a beta nvidia driver :D
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=== Nafallo just laughs at beta + edgy in the same phrase ;-)
[11:14] <_ion> jdong: As an alternative to the default driver that is.
[11:14] <Nafallo> atleast when it comes to unfree drivers :-)
[11:14] <jdong> _ion: that sounds like _a lot_ of work :)
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[11:15] <_ion> How about if it gets out of beta soon? :-)
[11:15] <Nafallo> _ion: maybe if you manage to persuade sabdfl :-P
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[11:21] <mvo> Kamion: I would like to talk to you about the whole "support Breaks during upgrades" business. to support this on the CD we need a backport for dpkg/apt/python-apt on the CD. because dapper-backports is currently not fully working I put those backports on my people.u.c account. I guess I can't add those packages to the cdbuild script unless they are in the official archive, right?
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[11:22] <Kamion> mvo: can, but I'd rather not, obviously
[11:22] <Kamion> mvo: the 4MB on the CD is going to be a hassle, but necessary, I guess :(
[11:22] <mvo> yeah :/
[11:22] <jdong> mvo: dapper-backports basically works now, to my knowledge
[11:22] <geser> Kamion: hello, I'm trying to find a sponsored upload targeting dapper-updates as it isn't on the archive yet. where do I look?
[11:22] <jdong> mvo: and I believe all core-devs can upload to it manually, too
[11:22] <Kamion> jdong's right
[11:23] <Kamion> geser: sorry, could you please rephrase? I don't understand
[11:23] <mvo> so the previous problems are all fixed now? great to hear!
[11:23] <pygi> Kamion: I believe he wants someone to sponsor upload of his package to dapper-updates
[11:23] <Kamion> um, backporting dpkg is going to be kind of interesting
[11:23] <geser> Kamion: crimsun sponsored an upload of php4-yaz for me to be included in dapper-updates
[11:23] <mvo> Kamion: its either the addional 4mb or no Breaks until edgy+1. choosing the later would save me quite a bit hassle, but iwj will not like this :)
[11:24] <Kamion> do we actually want *everything* in new dpkg to be available for general use by dapper-backports users?
[11:24] <mvo> Kamion: why? the only problem I had was with selinux but apparently iwj fixed that
[11:24] <geser> Kamion: as it isn't available yet I'm trying to find out why
[11:24] <Kamion> geser: dapper-updates is always held for manual approval, and that was shut down for the X business
[11:24] <Kamion> geser: I believe we can open it up again now, but I want to double-check with mdz first
[11:24] <Kamion> so please be patient
[11:24] <geser> ok
[11:24] <Kamion> mvo: the udeb shlibs stuff?
[11:24] <mvo> Kamion: now that is a pretty good question. in my view we need either the full stack (dpkg/apt/aptitude/synaptic/adept etc) or nothing. but if nothing, then what to do for the people who want a clean upgrade
[11:25] <mvo> Kamion: uh, no idea about that
[11:25] <Kamion> I was more wondering if it was possible just to backport the feature we need
[11:25] <mvo> right
[11:25] <geser> Kamion: is the queue visible somewhere?
[11:25] <mvo> at least for the breaks stuff in apt that should be possible and straightforward
[11:25] <Kamion> geser: can you see https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+queue?queue_state=1&queue_text= ?
[11:26] <Kamion> don't worry about the accept/reject buttons if you have them - they won't actually work for you
[11:26] <jdong> Kamion: I don't think mortals can access that :)
[11:26] <geser> Kamion: no, I can't see it
[11:27] <Kamion> ok, then no
[11:27] <Kamion> there are 28 items in it FWIW
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[11:27] <Kamion> php4-yaz is there
[11:27] <geser> thanks for the info
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[11:28] <_ion> Could someone enlighten me: in what situations do two instances of the same file en up in dpkg/status Conffiles section?
[11:28] <Kamion> mvo: I'm just a little worried really, there are 700 lines of changes in the dpkg changelog since dapper
[11:28] <Kamion> mvo: I think this might be the first test case for manual core-dev uploads to backports
[11:28] <mvo> Kamion: apt is pretty bad as well, lots of new code. 
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[11:29] <mdz> Kamion: hmm?
[11:29] <Kamion> I know we're only promoting it for Breaks, but people will install it on normal systems
[11:29] <Kamion> mdz: ?
[11:29] <mdz> Kamion: double-check about what...ah, dapper-updates
[11:29] <Kamion> mdz: right, I know StableReleaseUpdates is there now
[11:29] <mdz> Kamion: yes, that's in full effect now
[11:29] <mvo> Kamion: make that dapper-backports
[11:29] <Kamion> just wanted to check that we could start cautiously letting things through that met the policy
[11:30] <Kamion> mvo: two parallel discussions here
[11:30] <mvo> aha, ok. sorry
[11:30] <mdz> Kamion: the batch of stuff from Martin was the test run of the policy, and it seemed to work well
[11:30] <Kamion> ah, hadn't seen that
[11:30] <mdz> Kamion: my approval is on the bugs
[11:30] <mdz> so the updates I approved should go through
[11:31] <Kamion> mdz: SRU goes for universe too?
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[11:32] <mdz> Kamion: good question
[11:32] <Kamion> php4-yaz being an example
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[11:32] <mdz> that's something we should discuss with MOTU
[11:32] <Kamion> ok
=== jdong personally thinks it should apply to universe
[11:32] <mdz> most likely it should follow the same process with different names
[11:33] <jdong> or something along the lines of SRU
[11:33] <Kamion> wow, I'm kind of glad I didn't have to go through SRU for the dapper.1 ubiquity rush, though
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[11:34] <Kamion> though more enforced review of those changes might not have been a bad thing, of course
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[11:35] <Kamion> pygi: did Keybuk talk with you about the libburn package names?
[11:35] <Keybuk> no?
[11:35] <pygi> Kamion: not actually
[11:36] <pygi> Kamion: was he supposed to?
[11:37] <Keybuk> well, they're wrong, aren't they?
[11:37] <pygi> Keybuk: dunno :)
[11:37] <pygi> I'm not their maintainer :)
[11:37] <pygi> (in Ubuntu)
[11:37] <Kamion> oh, I didn't even look
[11:37] <Keybuk> right, ivoks uploaded them
[11:38] <Keybuk> and I've not seen him around yet
[11:38] <Kamion> nod
[11:38] <pygi> so if names are wrong, you'll have to discuss that with him :)
[11:38] <pygi> If there are bugs in libburn, then poke me :)
[11:38] <Keybuk> the funny thing is, he reverted names that were right
[11:38] <pygi> heh :-/
[11:38] <Kamion> they did need to be changed, as there was a new soname
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[11:39] <Keybuk> yes, but he just dropped soname naming altogether
[11:39] <Kamion> I also didn't get why there was a "-" in the old names
[11:39] <Kamion> should've been libburn1 surely, not libburn-1
[11:39] <Keybuk> indeed
[11:39] <Keybuk> should be libburn2 and libisofs2 now
=== pygi think he'll take over those libburn packages when he can get his gpg keys signed =)
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[11:41] <pygi> that would probably be the best I take it
[11:41] <Kamion> it's up to you - some people prefer to work with a downstream for packaging
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[11:52] <dieman> arugh. i have to make my own d-i initrd.
[11:52] <dieman> garwr.
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[11:57] <dieman> Kamion: where can I find the debian-installer source package that built the point release images?
[11:58] <dieman> n/m
[11:59] <dieman> i may have found them
[11:59] <Kamion> should be in dapper-updates
[11:59] <dieman> yeah
[11:59] <dieman> i couldn't find them on packages.ubuntu.com
[12:00] <Kamion> it may not be configured to look at dapper-updates
[12:00] <dieman> but thats just because its not the entire list of everything
[12:00] <dieman> yeah
[12:00] <Kamion> oh dear god, ruby1.8 uses macros with unbalanced braces
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[12:00] <dieman> aurghgh
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[12:00] <dieman> ok, yeah, this looks like the right one
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[12:07] <dieman> arugh, no bnx2 in 2.6.15-17 udeb nic-modules.
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