[12:09] <jdong> guess who just booted into new kernel... without realizing l-r-m isn't there yet :)
[12:09] <dieman> doh :)
[12:19] <majyk> have to say Knot 3 is sweet, my only beef is that today I had some upgrades that said a distribution upgrade was needed, doing so went just fine but I can't figure out why it had to remove xchat. I reinstalled it but that doesn't make much sense.
[12:22] <majyk> just thought I'd point that out, to the normal joe it makes no sense to uninstall an app that is not related to the upgrade
[12:23] <shackan> joe shouldn't be using edgy for that matter
[12:24] <mvo> majyk: thanks for your report, but as shackan rightfully pointed out, edgy is still a development distro so things like this may happen
[12:24] <majyk> yeah, I know
[12:25] <mvo> on a stable system, the update-manager should never have to invoke the dist-upgrade-super-powers :)
[12:26] <dieman> yeah
[12:26] <dieman> dist-upgrade is super bad in cases like that
[12:28] <wasabi__> Howdy. So. I'm going to embark on a network Apt thingy. The goal will be: point ubuntu systems at a local corporate Apt server, provide a web interface which proxies/caches to Ubuntu Central apt, and reporting abilities for each client to notify the server what updates it requies, and a web interface for the server admin to approve specific updates for delivery to clients. 
[12:28] <wasabi__> There are pieces of this already in existance, non of the approval/disprove management interface thing.
[12:28] <wasabi__> My first problem: I need a name. =(
[12:29] <GyrosGeier> \o/
[12:29] <GyrosGeier> is there an update planned for dapper for the issue described in http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=189525&highlight=%22localhost%3A631%22
[12:29] <mdz> wasabi__: sounds like NetworkWideUpdates
[12:29] <mvo> wasabi__: you know that spec we have written for this?
[12:30] <wasabi__> Nope. I did a quick search but didn't find it.
[12:30] <mvo> wasabi__: have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NetworkWideUpdates
[12:30] <Kamion> owowowow, ruby uses setjmp and threads
[12:30] <wasabi__> k
[12:30] <Nafallo> wasabi: that's totally NWU :-)
[12:31] <mdz> Kamion: this is sounding worse by the hour
[12:31] <mvo> wasabi__: someone even started to write code for this (well, I did for a first version but that was dumped later :)
[12:31] <Nafallo> wasabi: just to make people confused with NVU ofcourse :-)
[12:31] <mvo> hehe
[12:31] <Kamion> mdz: I already put a suggestion for a workaround in the bug
[12:31] <Kamion> although I haven't tried it yet
[12:31] <mdz> next it'll be "ruby uses hackerlab" followed by "Kamion has quit (aieeeeeeeeeeee)"
[12:31] <mvo> lol
[12:31] <Nafallo> haha
[12:32] <wasabi__> I was pretty much just planning to implement it with a simple apt proxy (auto generate releases, packages, etc, containing only approved packages), and a cron on the client to pull.
[12:32] <wasabi__> apt-get dist-upgrade, nothing else.
[12:33] <wasabi__> Not even going to attempt to deal with pushing, or anything more complicated. I personally don't think it's neccessary.
[12:33] <mvo> wasabi__: if you are not afraid of using bazaar, there is a starting point for this in http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/arch/ubuntu/auto-pkg-update--main--0/
[12:35] <wasabi__> I think the rest of the stuff, pushing config file updates, etc... no reason those couldn't be handled by using the service to push custom .debs
[12:35] <Kamion> there are a bunch of workarounds for crazy setjmp/getcontext-related register shit for certain architectures in eval.c; perhaps they just need to be augmented
[12:35] <wasabi__> me->home
[12:37] <Kamion> oh wow, some of this is absolute perverted genius
[12:38] <Kamion> they had a problem wherein getcontext wasn't preserving the register stack/window
[12:38] <Kamion> but gcc didn't know about this so wasn't generating safe code
[12:40] <Kamion> so in order to work around this, they noted that setjmp has the same property and gcc *does* know about it, so they stuck setjmp calls either side of the getcontext which are never called (0 ? setjmp : 0) in order to persuade gcc to generate safe code
[12:40] <Kamion> I can't decide whether this makes me want to use ruby more or less
[12:40] <_ion> How pretty. :-)
[12:43] <Nafallo> Soyuz still can't build from incoming I guess? :-/
[12:43] <Kamion> no
[12:43] <Nafallo> any ETA on that feature?
[12:43] <Kamion> edgy-ish, I think
[12:43] <Nafallo> oh, that would be now :-)
[12:43] <Kamion> probably only for security though
[12:44] <Kamion> that's where it really matters
[12:44] <mdz> it'll do it for everything
[12:44] <Kamion> aha
[12:44] <mdz> and we'll likely get that before security-in-soyuz
[12:44] <Nafallo> yay! :-)
[12:44] <Nafallo> that's sounds good then :-)
[12:46] <mdz> this is https://features.launchpad.net/products/soyuz/+spec/build-unpublished-source
[01:14] <Fjodor> BenC: Sorry, can't give the thumbs-up wrt to bug 36014
[01:14] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 36014 in linux-source-2.6.15 "kernel can't scale cpu frequency" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/36014
[01:15] <Fjodor> I have my own reasons for going the compile-your-own route, so it might work for others. Just hoped I could give you a positive report
[01:22] <treitter> mjg59: are there any detailed documents on usplash?
[01:22] <pygi> night
[01:23] <treitter> all I can seem to find is the bare Wiki page, the Customization document, and /usr/share/docs/usplash/*
[01:24] <mdz> treitter: you forgot about the source code ;-)
[01:25] <treitter> mdz: delightful :)
[01:39] <treitter> Seveas: do you know if it's possible to turn off the progress bar and text field in usplash-0.2?
[01:50] <mvo> mdz: I added what is required to make the dist-upgrade tarball self-contained to bug #54234
[01:50] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 54234 in update-manager "update-manager for edgy needs to upgrade dpkg/apt before calculating the upgrade to support the new "breaks" - otherwise the upgrade may fail" [High,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/54234
[02:28] <Kamion> jdong: your wish is my commanda
[02:28] <Kamion> er, command
[02:28] <jdong> Kamion: if we ever meet in person, I owe you some alcoholic beverages :)
[02:28] <Kamion> ok, console-setup clearly isn't going to build any faster if I sit here watching it, so I'm going to bed
[02:28] <Kamion> jdong: cheers :)
[02:28] <jdong> good night, Kamion
[02:29] <Kamion> mdz: my last two beta-relevant bugs are fixed on my hard disk, I believe, but I want to test them first (console-setup.config changes)
[02:29] <Kamion> I've mopped up everything on cdimage I care about, which wasn't too much
[02:29] <Kamion> (done ogra's edubuntu netcfg preseeding change)
[02:30] <Kamion> debian-installer and ubiquity need final uploads at some point; ubiquity needs a bit of a tweak to fix that console-setup bug from knot-3, which relies on the console-setup changes I'm preparing now
[02:31] <Kamion> d-i of course needs a kernel ABI bump; I'm deferring that until I've uploaded console-setup though, to save on d-i uploads
[02:34] <Nafallo> mdz: I have a problem with mplayer (you marked it as a milestone), some amd64-assembler I get scared of makes it FTBFS :-). and I don't even have an amd64 myself.
[02:36] <Nafallo> Kamion: gnight :-)
[02:36] <Kamion> mdz: oh, I'll be around extremely little at the weekend; maybe stopping in to upload console-setup at most
[02:36] <Kamion> we've hired a van and are going to be busy shunting stuff to the new place
[02:37] <Nafallo> Kamion: oh, you're moving again? :-)
[02:37] <Kamion> somewhat extended move over the course of a week or two, yes
[02:37] <Nafallo> nice :-)
[02:37] <StevenK> Kamion: Yuck.
[02:38] <StevenK> Kamion: A move is something you want get over with quickly.
[02:38] <StevenK> s/want/want to/
[02:38] <Nafallo> StevenK: depends on when the Internet starts working on the new place ;-)
[02:39] <StevenK> Heh
[02:40] <desrt> wow.  -9 already.
[02:40] <desrt> exciting times
[02:40] <jdong> desrt: careful, last time I tried restricted modules aren't there yet :)
[02:40] <jdong> that was a very Dapper-reminiscent X-less reboot :)
[02:40] <desrt> you are right
[02:40] <Kamion> Internet> that would be late next week, unfortunately
[02:41] <Kamion> so I shall be obliged to commute to the old house for work for a while
[02:41] <Kamion> anyway, sleep required
[02:41] <Nafallo> Kamion: maybe you can find some nice WLANs :-), yea gnight again :-)
[02:43] <jdub> Kamion: good to have an office ;)
[02:49] <mdz> Nafallo: I marked it for beta because a lot of folks will upgrade, and we'll get a lot more bug reports if mplayer breaks
[02:49] <mdz> Kamion: nice, thanks
[02:50] <Nafallo> mdz: yea, everything !amd64 should be fine now :-)
[02:51] <Nafallo> mdz: I'll guess doko or Tollef might be good advisers on that FTBFS, right? :-)
[02:54] <mdz> Nafallo: worth a try
[02:55] <Nafallo> oki, I'll try to catch them tomorrow then :-). thanks.
[03:12] <bddebian> Howdy
[03:16] <Fujitsu> Hi bddebian.
[03:17] <bddebian> Heya Fujitsu
[03:19] <bddebian> Uh oh :-)
[03:19] <robertj_> I thought we made a deal with the devil that if you didn't touch menu.lst it wouldn't break :)
[03:20] <robertj_> for some reason groot is showing as 0,1 now instead of 0,0
[03:27] <robertj_> any kernel updates go in that affect drive naming?
[05:33] <desrt> Hobbsee; as root, type X
[05:33] <desrt> Hobbsee; then look at /var/log/Xorg.0.log
[05:33] <desrt> (if the console output itself isn't good enough)
[05:34] <Hobbsee> desrt: ahhh :)  X will start the X session, presumably
[05:34] <desrt> it X started then it's some other problem caused by the use of a strange non-gnome desktop environment
[05:34] <desrt> no.  X will just start the raw X server alone
[05:34] <desrt> you need 'startx' if you want your session
[05:34] <Hobbsee> desrt: does the /var/log/Xorg.0.log get rewritten on reboot?
[05:34] <Hobbsee> yeah, startx is no good - i get a blank screen, and cant get back to a console
[05:34] <desrt> it gets rewritten whenever the X server attempts to start
[05:35] <Hobbsee> bugger
[05:35] <desrt> oh.  that sounds like an X crash
[05:35] <Hobbsee> due to the -8 kernel
[05:35] <Hobbsee> same with kdm starting up normally
[05:35] <desrt> assuming your disks synched ok, then restart in recovery and your Xorg.0.log should be from the crashed X instance
[05:35] <desrt> failing that, ssh in
[05:35] <Hobbsee> it'll show the spash screen, and then go blank.  useful of it
[05:36] <Hobbsee> cant ssh easily - no ssh on the other machines
[05:36] <Hobbsee> and i've never figured out putty
[05:36] <desrt> it's pretty extremely easy
[05:36] <desrt> you just download and run the .exe directly
[05:36] <desrt> put in the IP address
[05:36] <desrt> (done)
[05:36] <Hobbsee> ahh, by IP address.  gotcha
[05:36] <desrt> or hostname if you've got dns setup
[05:37] <Hobbsee> anyway, thanks, will go and grab that log
[05:39] <desrt> the only risk is that it will be stuck in the buffercache and won't have made it to disk yet
[05:39] <Hobbsee> right
[05:39] <desrt> got a sysrq key?
[05:39] <Hobbsee> er, yes
[05:39] <desrt> alt+sysrq+s will force a sync
[05:39] <Hobbsee> i've never figured out what it does though :P
[05:40] <desrt> hit that a couple of times before you hit the power
[05:40] <desrt> and wait a few seconds
[05:40] <Hobbsee> okay, cool
[05:40] <Hobbsee> thanks heaps :)
[05:40] <desrt> np.
[05:41] <desrt> btw -- i wonder if you know that -9 is already out?
[05:41] <Hobbsee> hey wait
[05:41] <Hobbsee> yes, same problem
[05:42] <Hobbsee> the /var/log/Xorg.0.log.old is the log from -9
[05:42] <desrt> Xorg.0.log... not .old
[05:42] <desrt> .old is from the 2nd last run
[05:42] <Hobbsee> yes - and i'm booted to -7 at the moment
[05:42] <Hobbsee> -9 is one of the broken ones :)
[05:42] <desrt> oh.  i see
[05:42] <Hobbsee> so i suspect that's what i want
[05:42] <desrt> yes
[05:42] <Hobbsee> http://rafb.net/paste/results/psGXdi87.html
[05:42] <desrt> if you start X then .0.log will be from the currently-running one
[05:43] <desrt> (II) I810(0): detected 16252 kB stolen memory.
[05:43] <desrt> last line?
[05:43] <Hobbsee> desrt: once i've tried to start X from the console on any newer kernels, i get a blank screen that i cant get out of
[05:43] <Hobbsee> so i wouldnt be doing that, no :P
[05:44] <Hobbsee> er, okay?
[05:44] <desrt> Hobbsee; but you could boot the newer kernel in recovery mode (in which case X doesn't start)
[05:44] <Hobbsee> what's that mean?
[05:44] <Hobbsee> true
[05:44] <desrt> Hobbsee; i mean... is that the last line of your paste?
[05:44] <Hobbsee> desrt: yes. taht's the last line in the log
[05:44] <desrt> ow.
[05:44] <Hobbsee> of course, i may have hit power too early.  *shrugs*
[05:44] <desrt> compare with the Xorg.0.log from -7
[05:44] <desrt> does it have that line?
[05:46] <Hobbsee> http://rafb.net/paste/results/V3ZSeQ47.html
[05:46] <Hobbsee> yep
[05:46] <desrt> also -- are you positive the break happened -7 -> -8 and not -8 -> -9?  ben merged a bunch of new drm/agp code into -9 that would be a likely breaker
[05:46] <Hobbsee> (line 409)
[05:46] <Hobbsee> absolutely - well, it could have broken in -8 *and* -9, of course
[05:47] <Hobbsee> my -7 works, my -8 doesnt :)
[05:47] <desrt> ok.
[05:47] <desrt> i don't see any relevant changes between those two
[05:47] <Hobbsee> and the only thing i dont have upgraded is xserver-xorg-input-synaptics
[05:47] <Hobbsee>   Installed: 0.14.6-0ubuntu2
[05:47] <Hobbsee>   Candidate: 0.14.6-0ubuntu3
[05:48] <Hobbsee> because it sends my touchpad on crack.
[05:48] <desrt> lemme try something
[05:48] <desrt> OH CURSE YOU
[05:48] <desrt> the words "touchpad on crack" just triggered my touchpad's intermitent crack-induced behaviour
[05:49] <Hobbsee> hehe, sorry :(
[05:49] <desrt> ok.  what driver do you get in the kernel?  i810?
[05:50] <Hobbsee> i dont remember - the video one, found in lspci i presume?
[05:50] <desrt> lsmod | grep drm
[05:50] <Hobbsee> drm                    74196  3 i915
[05:50] <Hobbsee> agpgart                33992  3 drm,intel_agp
[05:51] <desrt> ok.  move that module out of the way (to ~ or something) from the 2.6.17-9 modules tree
[05:51] <Hobbsee> desrt: er, how?
[05:51] <Hobbsee> sorry, my X doesnt tend to break
[05:52] <Hobbsee> i'm not very used to debugging such problems :P
[05:52] <desrt> you should have a file /lib/modules/2.6.17-9-generic/kernel/drivers/char/drm/i915.ko
[05:52] <desrt> mv it to your ~
[05:52] <desrt> then boot into the -9-generic kernel and see if X still crashes
[05:53] <Hobbsee> okay, will do.
[05:53] <desrt> doing that effectively removes the kernel's support for your card and gives you just straight-up X.  since it seems to be a kernel problem that might stop the crashing
[05:53] <Hobbsee> recovery mode?
[05:53] <Hobbsee> right
[05:53] <Hobbsee> or just normal, i guess
[05:53] <desrt> normal mode should be fine as long as you make sure that module is moved out of the way
[05:53] <Hobbsee> yep
[05:53] <Hobbsee> okay, back in a bit
[05:57] <Hobbsee> desrt: it still dies, with that module removed
[05:57] <desrt> crud
[05:58] <Hobbsee> yes
[05:58] <Hobbsee> (is in a virtual terminal, not having separately tried to start X
[05:58] <desrt> it's really weird that a kernel  ugprade would do that when clearly it's not the kernel driver at fault :(
[05:58] <Hobbsee> rather, yes
[05:58] <desrt> hmm?
[05:58] <realist> kernel upgrade killed my X setup too ;p
[05:59] <realist> clobbered my manually compiled modules
[05:59] <desrt> oh.  the two of you need to figure this out then :p
[05:59] <desrt> since my X is just peachy :)
[05:59] <desrt> (for once)
[05:59] <Hobbsee> yet, it has to be something related to that, as -7 works, -8 and -9 dont - i've been running -7 even after i found -{8,9} dont boot
[05:59] <Hobbsee> s/boot/run X/g
[05:59] <realist> I had to remove the ubuntu packaged modules, and replace them with my custom ones
[06:00] <desrt> how... gentoo of you
[06:00] <desrt> :)
[06:01] <realist> desrt: it was necessary for my hardware / binary drivers
[06:01] <fabbione> Hobbsee: can you try to comment out dri from xorg.conf ?
[06:01] <fabbione> Hobbsee: usually kernel + X crash is related to dri.. it's worth to give it a shot
[06:01] <desrt> fabbione; no DRI module it loaded :(
[06:02] <fabbione> desrt: i want X to not init dri.. not from the kenel
[06:02] <fabbione> kernel
[06:02] <RootBeet> What is Ubuntu's primary target? Commercial users or Home users?
[06:03] <fabbione> RootBeet: Bill Gate's workstation
[06:03] <desrt> RootBeet; definitely the wrong forum for questions like this
[06:03] <Hobbsee> fabbione: i'll give it a try, i'll probably lose this irc again though
[06:03] <desrt> Hobbsee; steal your dad's laptop :p
[06:03] <fabbione> Hobbsee: no problem.. it's worth a shot
[06:04] <Hobbsee> right
[06:05] <desrt> "don't irc as root"
[06:05] <Hobbsee> (i'm in recovery mode)
[06:05] <desrt> irssi.  a prudent choice.  :)
[06:05] <Hobbsee> but yeah, as a general rule, i dont :P
[06:05] <Hobbsee> no X, remember?
[06:05] <Hobbsee> :P
[06:06] <desrt> oh.  it's working?
[06:06] <Hobbsee> havent tried
[06:06] <desrt> nm :)
[06:07] <RootBeet> ok thanks anyway... I use XP but was considering ubuntu.
[06:07] <fabbione> RootBeet: you might want to ask in #ubuntu
[06:07] <desrt> RootBeet; you'd probably get better answers in #ubuntu
[06:07] <Hobbsee> desrt:  interesting, now that does work, using startx, with the dri module commented out, as fabbione suggested
[06:07] <fabbione> that's probably thea better forum
[06:07] <RootBeet> ok.
[06:07] <desrt> Hobbsee; lsmod | grep i915
[06:07] <desrt> just to make sure it's really not loaded
[06:08] <Hobbsee> desrt: returns empty
[06:08] <fabbione> Hobbsee: even if you load the i915 kernel module it should work.. X is just not initializing dri
[06:08] <desrt> try 'modprobe i915'
[06:08] <desrt> should give an error?
[06:08] <Hobbsee> yep, no such file or directory
[06:08] <fabbione> desrt: you suggested her to move it away.. she will have to put it back... depmod -a and modprobe
[06:09] <desrt> totally weird.
[06:09] <fabbione> Hobbsee: ^^^
[06:09] <fabbione> move it back
[06:09] <fabbione> depmod -a
[06:09] <fabbione> modprobe
[06:09] <desrt> fabbione; i wanted to see the error, actually :)
[06:09] <Hobbsee> desrt: well, i can write it out - i've got no real way of copying it that i know about :P
[06:09] <Hobbsee> well, easily anyway
[06:09] <Chipzz> Hobbsee: use screen
[06:09] <desrt> it seems really odd that the X server can crash, dependent on kernel version, initialising DRI, even when the DRI module is not loaded
[06:09] <desrt> fabbione; :)
[06:09] <Chipzz> Hobbsee: you can dan ctrl-a,[ to copy
[06:10] <Chipzz> Hobbsee: and ctrl-a,]  to paste
[06:10] <fabbione> desrt: it's not weird.. DRI always attempt a load...
[06:10] <Chipzz> s/dan/tehn/
[06:10] <Chipzz> s/dan/then/
[06:10] <desrt> fabbione; which will fail since the module is not there
[06:10] <fabbione> desrt: even if later it decides that's not wise
[06:10] <fabbione> desrt: and crash as it seems
[06:10] <desrt> fabbione; i'd be fine if it was a non-kernel-version-dependent crash.....
[06:10] <desrt> just blame it on crappy X drivers
[06:11] <Hobbsee> Chipzz: i'm using that :P
[06:11] <desrt> fabbione; :p
[06:11] <Hobbsee> fabbione: sure you do :P
[06:11] <fabbione> no i don't
[06:11] <fabbione> no i don't
[06:11] <desrt> fabbione; you knew enough to have a better guess at a fix than i did :)
[06:11] <fabbione> NOT AGAIN.. ALL THESE VOICES... SHUTUP
[06:11] <desrt> fabbione; they're coming for you.
[06:11] <Hobbsee> desrt: error was that it couldnt find the i915.ko that i'd moved
[06:11] <desrt> fabbione; the camel is your only friend.
[06:12] <fabbione> aha
[06:12] <fabbione> ok
[06:12] <desrt> Hobbsee; ya.  i just wanted to make sure it was moved properly :p
[06:12] <fabbione> time to play a bit
[06:12] <fabbione> Hobbsee: next time don't trust desrt ;)
[06:12] <Hobbsee> hehe
[06:12] <Hobbsee> right, now i'll try startx again
[06:12] <Hobbsee> *may lose her screen session*
[06:12] <desrt> ok next you need to remove the code that's causing the crash... rm -rf /*...
[06:13] <Hobbsee> okay, that works fine
[06:13] <fabbione> no, why does she needs to do that?
[06:13] <Hobbsee> would be a little silly though, with the help :P
[06:13] <desrt> fabbione; you're not nearly as fun as you used to be :)
[06:13] <Hobbsee> right, so it's the dri stuff
[06:14] <fabbione> desrt: i would like to see you woken up at 5 am.. how funny you fell :)
[06:14] <desrt> crikey.  what the hell happened?
[06:14] <RootBeet> Do you guys use Windows at all?
[06:14] <desrt> boot to the head! NA NA
[06:14] <fabbione> Hobbsee: so if you have a bug report on the kernel.. please make sure to mention that DRM is broken
[06:14] <Chipzz> desrt: yea, that one ;)
[06:14] <fabbione> desrt: my son decided that it was time to party 
[06:15] <desrt> wasn't that a flash video? :)
[06:15] <Chipzz> desrt: o/~ People votinf republican, give them a boot to the head! o/~ ;)
[06:15] <Hobbsee> fabbione: i havent reported it so far - havent known what logs to give, and knew that "X breaks with -8 and -9 kernels" is rather useless
[06:15] <desrt> fabbione; i did that when i was a kid but only on christmas
[06:15] <desrt> Hobbsee; ya... and seriously... who do you file that against?  X or the kernel?
[06:15] <fabbione> desrt: yeah. but it's the 22nd/23rd of Sep.. so no i don't feel very funny 
[06:15] <fabbione> and it's saturday
[06:15] <Hobbsee> desrt: no idea
[06:16] <desrt> Hobbsee; i'd talk to matthew
[06:16] <fabbione> Hobbsee: it's a kernel regression on drm
[06:16] <Hobbsee> desrt: that's the other reason i havent filed it
[06:16] <desrt> Hobbsee; he's always able to fix my weird problems
[06:16] <Hobbsee> matthew == mjg59?
[06:16] <desrt> yes
[06:16] <desrt> or at least talk me through fixing them for myself
[06:16] <desrt> Chipzz; funny story about that song at my school....
[06:16] <desrt> the song got me into a lot of trouble
[06:17] <Chipzz> desrt: school voted democratic? ;)
[06:17] <desrt> (which is why i rememered it)
[06:17] <Hobbsee> okay, i'll just go reboot and see if anything's been reported, now that i know where to look
[06:17] <Hobbsee> back in a bit
[06:17] <desrt> i admined the network at my highschool
[06:17] <desrt> the schoolboard sort of didn't like that
[06:17] <desrt> since they admined the networks in all of the other schools except 1 or 2
[06:17] <Chipzz> desrt: then give them a boot to the head? ;)
[06:17] <desrt> and we were sort of rogue
[06:18] <desrt> anyway... one day a spider craweled into the power supply of our mailserver
[06:18] <desrt> took it down
[06:18] <Chipzz> and you were blamed?
[06:18] <desrt> we were behind a firewall and in order to get our mail it had to be forwarded from an extremely poorly configured server hosted at the board of education
[06:18] <desrt> on the day the server went down someone sent that song to a user on our mailserver
[06:19] <desrt> and because of the poor configuration of the board of education mailserver every time it attempted delivery to our offline server it generated a separate bounce message to their postmaster
[06:19] <desrt> who got dozens of copies of the boot-to-the-head song
[06:20] <desrt> he told this to the principal at our school, who knowing nothing, interpreted that as us sending him threatening email
[06:20] <desrt> it took like a week to get the miscommunication sorted and the principal was very angry with me for that week
[06:20] <Chipzz> some people should be banned from even seeing a computer
[06:21] <Chipzz> like your principal
[06:21] <desrt> eh
[06:21] <desrt> this was _way_ back in the day
[06:21] <desrt> i'm not even sure she knew what email was
[06:21] <Chipzz> ignorance is no excuse...
[06:21] <Chipzz> neither is incompetence
[06:22] <desrt> it worked out ok, though
[06:22] <desrt> because of the incident i made some good contacts at the school board
[06:22] <desrt> and ended up doing a co-op placement there the next term
[06:22] <Chipzz> :)
[06:22] <desrt> that, however, ended badly again :(
[06:22] <Chipzz> then the song turned out for the best for you ;)
[06:22] <Chipzz> *auch*
[06:22] <desrt> my supervisor, in the middle of my work term, got offered 2x more money to go work elsewhere
[06:23] <desrt> i got dropped on the floor
[06:23] <Chipzz> lemme guess, more ignorance and incompetence?
[06:23] <desrt> more like nobody who could reasonably take me
[06:23] <desrt> they ended up awarding me a half-credit and i just finished early
[06:23] <desrt> pretty lame
[06:24] <Chipzz> sorry about the cliche 'ignorance and incompetence' comments
[06:24] <Chipzz> but I've seen lots of it
[06:24] <desrt> no problem.  it's a school board, after all :)
[06:25] <desrt> you can assume certain behaviours with a reasonable confidence :)
[06:25] <Chipzz> people who should never ever ever EVER be allowed within a 10 mile radius of a computer, so to speak
[06:25] <desrt> i disagree with that statement
[06:25] <desrt> computers are for everyone to use
[06:26] <Chipzz> but not for everyone to take decisions on
[06:26] <desrt> i'm more willing to agree with incompetent people not being permitted to hold positions of authority
[06:26] <Chipzz> ok, that's what I actually meant
[06:26] <Chipzz> and I'm overreacting I guess
[06:26] <Chipzz> but still
[06:27] <desrt> i gained a lot of experience
[06:27] <Chipzz> the way these people take decisions about stuff they don't know shit about
[06:27] <desrt> networking, linux, policking
[06:27] <desrt> all important stuff :)
[06:27] <Chipzz> my opinion is
[06:28] <Chipzz> the internet reflects the real world, just on a much larger scale
[06:28] <Chipzz> yes there is kiddy porn on the internet
[06:28] <desrt> how incredibly tangential...
[06:28] <Chipzz> there is also kiddy porn in the real world
[06:28] <Chipzz> does that make the internet a bad thing?
[06:28] <Chipzz> just because there is more of it?
[06:29] <Chipzz> a lot of people seem to think so
[06:30] <RootBeet> what is more advanced ubuntu or windows?
[06:30] <desrt> RootBeet; you're asking questions for which reasonable answers don't exist
[06:30] <Chipzz> exageration of things happening on the internet also happening in the real world being escalated by people wo don't realise either the scale of the internet neither that they cannot control it
[06:31] <Chipzz> desrt: but I would agree, it's off-topic ;)
[06:31] <RootBeet> Chipzz so it was you are talking about.
[06:31] <RootBeet> is*
[06:31] <RootBeet> what*
[06:32] <desrt> RootBeet; i think you might want to read some reviews of ubuntu to help you decide what to do
[06:32] <desrt> RootBeet; there are quite a few of them out there
[06:32] <RootBeet> thanks
[06:32] <RootBeet> I thought id ask the hackers directly
[06:33] <desrt> RootBeet; good way to get a biased answer :)
[06:33] <Hobbsee> interesting.  if i mv xorg.conf out of the way, X starts fine.
[06:33] <desrt> are you moving it to ~?
[06:33] <Hobbsee> yes
[06:33] <desrt> heh
[06:33] <desrt> X first looks for xorg.conf in ~ :)
[06:34] <Hobbsee> it's in ~/Desktop
[06:34] <desrt> oh.  weird.
[06:34] <Hobbsee> and i'm positive it's not getting read
[06:34] <desrt> i wonder if it's finding a default elsewhere
[06:34] <Hobbsee> (mouse moves with a different acceleration, font sizes are different due to the screen size being weird)
[06:35] <desrt> Chipzz; no reason to talk out of channel
[06:35] <Hobbsee> i dont know, i cant see where it would be reading from - there's no other xorg.conf's around
[06:35] <desrt> Hobbsee; check your xorg.0.log file... right near the top
[06:35] <desrt> (==) Using config file: "/etc/X11/xorg.conf"
[06:35] <desrt> some line like that
[06:35] <Chipzz> desrt: I didn't want to harrass you or anything; it just seemed off-topic for #ubuntu-devel
[06:35] <Chipzz> and I'm as much against off-topic as most of the guys here
[06:36] <Hobbsee> (==) Log file: "/var/log/Xorg.0.log", Time: Sat Sep 23 14:28:46 2006
[06:36] <Hobbsee> (EE) Unable to locate/open config file
[06:36] <Chipzz> so I shouldn't be talking about this here
[06:36] <desrt> WEIRD!
[06:36] <desrt> and it still started?
[06:36] <Hobbsee> yep
[06:36] <desrt> Chipzz; eh... i feel apathetic about on/off topic when the channel is as quiet as it is tonight :)
[06:36] <desrt> that's cool :)
[06:36] <desrt> i didn't know it would do that
[06:37] <desrt> . o O ( mental note )
[06:37] <Hobbsee> *copies that log to the desktop too*
[06:37] <Hobbsee> hehe
[06:37] <Chipzz> desrt: X.org works without a configuration file too
[06:37] <RootBeet> Mark Shuttleworth is in the house.
[06:37] <Chipzz> just uses values it probes
[06:37] <Chipzz> (but you probably knew that allready)
[06:37] <desrt> Chipzz; ya.  i see that from Hobbsee
[06:38] <desrt> Hobbsee; well.. i guess the 'default' setup for X just fails to include the "dri" line too
[06:38] <Chipzz> big improvement from XF86, being to mostly autoprobe shit
[06:38] <Hobbsee> desrt: point.
[06:38] <Chipzz> Hobbsee: does it mention dri in the log file?
[06:38] <RootBeet> Does Mark have much input on what goes into Ubuntu?
[06:38] <desrt> RootBeet; this is very well documented on the website
[06:39] <Hobbsee> Chipzz: nope
[06:39] <desrt> see http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes and particularly http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/governance
[06:39] <Hobbsee> hey BenC 
[06:40] <desrt> Hobbsee; apparently not.
[06:40] <Hobbsee> hah
[06:41] <desrt> Hobbsee; search launchpad.  if you can't find anything then open a bug against one or the other.
[06:41] <desrt> the worst that'll happen is that it'll be punted
[06:42] <Hobbsee> against X or the linux-image source?
[06:42] <desrt> pick one :p
[06:42] <Hobbsee> right
[06:42] <Chipzz> *IPv6
[06:42] <desrt> if X, you probably want xserver-xorg-video-i810
[06:43] <RootBeet> Ubuntu will start suffering from tall poppy syndrome as it gets more popular..... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tall_poppy_syndrome
[06:44] <desrt> no.  i imagine not.  it will merely suffer from people asking inappropriate questions and saying inappropriate things in its development-only channel.
[06:45] <RootBeet> sorry.
[06:45] <Fujitsu> desrt, I was thinking of a way to put it like that.
[06:45] <desrt> Fujitsu; :)
[06:45] <Chipzz> desrt: then again, what is considered inappropriate? ;)
[06:46] <Chipzz> you did not consider our discussion earlier inappropriate, while at another hour it would have been ;)"
[06:47] <desrt> hypocrite's perogative :)
[06:47] <Chipzz> lol :)
[06:48] <desrt> i hope it's hanson.
[06:48] <Hobbsee> desrt: found it :)
[06:48] <Hobbsee> bug 50326
[06:48] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 50326 in xserver-xorg-video-i810 "Initialising DRI fails on i915" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/50326
[06:48] <desrt> Hobbsee; rocking.
[06:48] <Chipzz> perogative of being slightly drunk ;)
[06:48] <desrt> well
[06:48] <Chipzz> Playing MPEG stream from The_Bangles_-_If_She_Knew_What_She_Wants.mp3 ...
[06:49] <desrt> he'd be givin' it to her
[06:49] <desrt> but he can't see through her
[06:49] <Chipzz> heh ;)
[06:49] <desrt> Hobbsee; this doesn't really look like black-screen-on-X-server-startup...
[06:50] <Hobbsee> oh, wait
[06:50] <desrt> Chipzz; if you have their greatest hits cd check out the cover of "hazy shade of winter".  it rocks.
[06:52] <Chipzz> desrt: pvt ;)
[06:52] <desrt> Chipzz; no need.  i own the cd, thanks.
[06:52] <desrt> besides.  mp3 trading is morally wrong :)
[06:52] <Chipzz> is it? really? :)
[06:52] <desrt> definitely.
[06:53] <Chipzz> can you claim you never ever downloaded an mp3? :P
[06:53] <desrt> you should use morally unemcumbered formats like .ogg to do your file trading :)
[06:53] <Chipzz> rofl :)
[06:53] <Chipzz> what format would you trade wodka in? ;)
[06:53] <RootBeet> mp3's are fine...
[06:54] <Fujitsu> RootBeet, no they not.
[06:54] <Fujitsu> *they're
[06:54] <RootBeet> Anyone who says they are not ok to download is lieing!
[06:55] <desrt> Hobbsee; please please say something about X
[06:55] <Chipzz> X sucks because it runs over the network so it must be slow!
[06:55] <Chipzz> :PPPPP
[06:55] <Fujitsu> RootBeet, MP3 is a patent encumbered, non-free, nasty format.
[06:55] <Chipzz> desrt: satisfying? ;)
[06:55] <Hobbsee> desrt: i will, i'm still messing around here
[06:55] <desrt> Hobbsee; this channel is desperately in need of some on-topic content :p
[06:56] <Hobbsee> desrt: hehe, right, true that
[06:56] <Hobbsee> desrt: i could police the channel offtopic-style :P
[06:56] <Fujitsu> desrt, yes, it really is.
[06:56] <Fujitsu> Randomly opping everybody? :P
[06:56] <Chipzz> well at least I was on the topic of X, wasn't I? ;)
[06:56] <Hobbsee> desrt:  i discovered that i didnt have xlibmesa-dri installed.
[06:56] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: no, kicking them :P
[06:56] <desrt> Hobbsee; do you need that?
[06:57] <Hobbsee> desrt: no idea
[06:57] <crimsun> not really, no. libgl1-mesa-dri is the important package.
[06:58] <Chipzz> crimsun: I didn't try building mythplugins as someone else commented it build fine
[06:58] <Hobbsee> ah yes, that's right
[06:58] <Hobbsee> surely i should know that from my merging :P
[06:58] <Chipzz> crimsun: yet I see no progress on that bug; should I subscribe ubuntu-archive?
[06:58] <desrt> Hobbsee; are you in NSW?
[06:59] <crimsun> Chipzz: not yet, it needs to be verified by a MOTU first
[06:59] <Chipzz> crimsun: anything I can do?
[07:00] <desrt> nice.
[07:00] <crimsun> check if it plays well with the current mythtv 0.20 package
[07:01] <Chipzz> crimsun: which would be running a backported package on edgy; something which wouldn't yield many usefull results, right?
[07:02] <Chipzz> unless I build it myself?
[07:02] <Hobbsee> desrt: yep
[07:02] <desrt> going to LCA?
[07:02] <crimsun> Chipzz: referring to mythtvplugins? It's helpful to know it actually works in Edgy, so it'd be helpful.
[07:03] <Hobbsee> desrt: no idea
[07:06] <Hobbsee> desrt: you're also in nsw?
[07:06] <desrt> ON.
[07:07] <Chipzz> anyway
[07:07] <Hobbsee> desrt: this gets weirder.  it will only work in recovery mode
[07:08] <Hobbsee> or when xorg.conf is moved out of the way
[07:08] <Chipzz> Hobbsee: possibly some interaction between framebuffer code and the X driver?
[07:08] <Hobbsee> Chipzz: no idea, i dont know this stuff
[07:08] <desrt> odd.
[07:08] <Chipzz> Hobbsee: nvidia framebuffer driver and nvida (prop) X are known not to cooperate
[07:08] <desrt> well.  in any case
[07:08] <desrt> it's past my bedtime
[07:08] <desrt> goodnight everyone
[07:08] <Chipzz> (for example)
[07:08] <Hobbsee> Chipzz: this is an intel card, it shouldnt die :P
[07:09] <Chipzz> (but then again, I may be outdated)
[07:09] <Hobbsee> desrt: night!  thanks for the help
[07:09] <desrt> Hobbsee; sorry i couldn't actually be useful
[07:09] <Hobbsee> desrt: youv'e given me a clue of where to start
[07:10] <Chipzz> desrt: good night, and patent encumbered dreams ;)
[07:10] <Chipzz> errr
[07:10] <Chipzz> s/encumbered/unencumbered/
[07:10] <desrt> Chipzz; either way you're a sick man
[07:11] <Chipzz> desrt: just being silly
[07:12] <Chipzz> Hobbsee: I'm on an intel chipset too btw
[07:12] <Hobbsee_> hah.  i can use
[07:12] <Hobbsee_> recovery mode to start up kdm, and login normally
[07:13] <Chipzz> 2.6.17-7 though
[07:14] <Chipzz> Hobbsee: btw, did you get any decent framerates from this setup btw?
[07:14] <Chipzz> (glxgears)
[07:14] <Hobbsee|Remote> Chipzz: *shrug* seems fine to me, but i know better
[07:14] <Hobbsee> er, dont know better
[07:15] <Chipzz> Hobbsee:
[07:15] <Chipzz> chipzz@Reel:~$ glxgears -printfps
[07:15] <Chipzz> libGL warning: 3D driver claims to not support visual 0x5b
[07:15] <Chipzz> 3065 frames in 5.0 seconds = 612.944 FPS
[07:15] <Chipzz> nothing to spectacular? :S
[07:15] <Hobbsee> 2206 frames in 5.2 seconds = 428.197 FPS
[07:15] <Fujitsu> Aw, I like -iacknowledgethatthistoolisnotabenchmark
[07:15] <Hobbsee> 2280 frames in 5.2 seconds = 439.804 FPS
[07:15] <Fujitsu> Chipzz, I'm on an i915, I get about that.
[07:16] <Fujitsu> Chipzz, I get about 685.
[07:16] <Chipzz> I thought intel chipsets were in some way accelerated?
[07:16] <Chipzz> nvidia gives at least 5000 fps
[07:17] <Fujitsu> Chipzz, NVIDIA != Intel.
[07:17] <Chipzz> I realise that :)
[07:18] <Chipzz> yet, when intel claims it's accelerated, this feels more like software rendering framerates :/
[07:19] <Chipzz> I was expecting more from "accelerated", and wondering if somethin was wrong
[07:25] <Chipzz> Fujitsu: I just ran glxgears fullscreen, and I got about 97 fps
[07:25] <Chipzz> for 3 simple gears running fullscreen (non-textured), this hardly feels accelerated
[07:26] <Fujitsu> Chipzz, I know.
[07:26] <Chipzz> (yes I know this isn't ubuntu's fault, but I'm just wondering if something's wrong in this setup, or intels claims of acceleration are largely overrated)
[07:27] <Fujitsu> Or the driver is fscked.
[07:27] <Chipzz> let's just make a stupid assumption and say that 12 gears (hardly a real game setup) would yield 25 fps
[07:27] <Chipzz> which are still untextured
[07:28] <Chipzz> that's merely realtime
[07:28] <Chipzz> which is why I'm asking (if it really is)
[07:29] <Fujitsu> I get 97 as well when fullscreen.
[07:30] <Chipzz> 1024x768x24bpp btw
[07:31] <Chipzz> anyway
[07:31] <Chipzz> enough with the whining
[07:32] <Chipzz> I was just wondering if this actually worked or was something on my part
[07:32] <Fujitsu> Well, I'm at 1280x800x24.
[07:32] <Chipzz> should I file a bug?
[07:32] <Chipzz> or just leave it as is?
[07:33] <Fujitsu> It performs better under Windows, so probably file a bug.
[07:34] <Chipzz> do you have anything to compare against on windows? (and if so, what?)
[07:36] <bluefoxicy> damnit
[07:36] <bluefoxicy> I can't sign my e-mail, the seahorse daemon is dead :|
[07:37] <bluefoxicy> for now I'm not signing my e-mail; but mildly obsessive compulsive as I am this is SLIGHTLY annoying
[08:01] <BlockNick> deltree C:\Windows
[08:01] <BlockNick> format c:/s /u
[08:01] <Hobbsee> BlockNick: hmmm?
[08:02] <BlockNick> wrong window
[08:17] <lastnode> imbrandon, you around?
[08:29] <kagou> kagou, can you give me the link where i can found log of building live filesystem 
[08:48] <compotatoj> Hi, I am a programmer but I have never made an application for open source software. I have noticed the lack of support for complicated mouse configurations, such as the back and forward buttons. I know there is capability to do it in the xorg.conf file and xmodmap, so I was wondering if it would be a good idea if I (or anyone actually) created an application to easily map your mouse correctly. It doesn't seem that hard because xev
[08:53] <Burgundavia> compotatoj: daniel stone is working on input hotplug, which will make the need for configuration go away
[08:55] <compotatoj> Burgundavia: Ok, thank you. I am glad to hear that.
[08:55] <Burgundavia> compotatoj: however, another developer is always good to have on board
[08:55] <Burgundavia> what sort of things interest you?
[08:56] <compotatoj> I am not sure, I really want to contribute but I lack experience with OSS, what are most the programs written in?
[08:56] <compotatoj> C? Python?
[08:56] <Burgundavia> in Ubuntu, most new developer is in Python
[08:56] <compotatoj> That is what I thouht
[08:56] <compotatoj> thought
[08:56] <_ion> burgundavia: It's going to use evdev for the hotplugged devices, right?
[08:57] <Burgundavia> _ion: I believe so. I am not a programmer by any means
[08:58] <compotatoj> Where would be the right place to ask about bugs in Edgy? I searched around for my bug and I found a lot of other people having it, but it looked like it was supposed to be fixed a while ago but for me it is not.
[08:58] <Burgundavia> compotatoj: if you are interested in system tools, there is a serious need for a completely rewrite of the gnome-system-tools
[08:58] <Burgundavia> compotatoj: what sort of bugs?
[08:59] <compotatoj> Well for instance, I get double of all the partitions on my desktop like sda1 sda1 (2)
[08:59] <compotatoj> I think it is because of the uuid
[08:59] <compotatoj> in the /etc/fstab
[08:59] <compotatoj> It was supposedly "fixed"
[09:00] <Burgundavia> compotatoj: if a bug isn't fixed, reopen it
[09:01] <compotatoj> I think I did already
[09:01] <compotatoj> on launchpad
[09:01] <compotatoj> Part of the time, I can't tell if it is a bug or my incompetence...
[09:02] <Burgundavia> compotatoj: best way to test is to use a live cd. Eliminates config issues
[09:03] <compotatoj> ok
[09:03] <compotatoj> Also, would you happen to know why keyboard layouts like DVORAK (which I use :]  ) are left out of the installer, but once edgy is installed it appears in the keyboard layouts menu
[09:05] <compotatoj> is there an ubuntu bugs irc room or something
[09:05] <StevenK> #ubuntu-bugs, I think
[09:05] <compotatoj> ok
[09:11] <Burgundavia> compotatoj: have you checked the latest edgy?
[09:17] <compotatoj> I am running knot 3 with all updates
[09:18] <Burgundavia> try the daily
[09:19] <compotatoj> wow, so I should waste 700mb of bandwidth instead of upgrading the packages? is there a difference?
[09:19] <compotatoj> i don't mind
[09:20] <compotatoj> I just don't want to waste it for them
[09:20] <compotatoj> i'll get the torrent.
[09:31] <Kamion> kagou: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/livefs-build-logs/
[09:32] <Kamion> compotatoj: lack of dvorak in the edgy installer is a known bug, but probably won't be fixed until after beta since it requires a sizeable UI change
[09:33] <Kamion> compotatoj: it's because the keyboard backend we used to use had dvorak as a first-class layout, but in the backend we use now, it's just a variant of us (and other layouts), and at the moment we're only showing layouts, not variants
[09:33] <Kamion> I'll fix this by adding another listbox for the variants
[09:37] <compotatoj> Kamion: ok thanks, I thought it had something to do with the fact that edgy isn't officially "out" yet
[09:38] <Kamion> well, it does have something to do with that in the sense that that means I have a little more time to fix it :-)
[09:38] <Kamion> but it's not "edgy's not out yet, so no dvorak for you" ;-)
[09:40] <compotatoj> Is it like you don't start worrying about minor translating stuff until closer to the release date?
[09:40] <Burgundavia> Kamion: randomly removing features until release time is a very apple thing todo
[09:41] <Kamion> compotatoj: that's certainly true
[09:41] <Mithrandir> Kamion: speaking of translations; is c-s grabbing the xorg translations?
[09:42] <Kamion> no, console-setup has no translation facility at all at the moment
[09:43] <Mithrandir> how about ubiquity?
[09:43] <Kamion> it's a bit problematic - in order to make it translatable sanely, I need to backport a debconf feature from trunk
[09:43] <Kamion> (Choices-C handling)
[09:43] <Mithrandir> I'm just thinking it'll be way easier to just grab the translations from xorg.xml than to translate them again
[09:43] <Kamion> and the form of that feature is still under a little bit of debate
[09:44] <kagou> thanks Kamion 
[09:44] <Kamion> I suppose that could be hacked into ubiquity for the time being
[09:44] <Kamion> feel free to try :-)
[09:44] <Mithrandir> ENOTIME. :-)
[09:44] <Kamion> not pre-beta
[09:46] <Kamion> Mithrandir: I think I've fixed that issue from an old Knot's release notes, where the keymap wasn't guessed properly
[09:46] <Kamion> but I'm unlikely to be able to test it
[09:46] <BongSong> fuck microsoft
[09:47] <Kamion> Mithrandir: can you check that at some point when you're testing an image with ubiquity 1.1.23?
[09:48] <Burgundavia> BongSong: please, this is a development channel, people are trying to work here
[09:49] <Mithrandir> Kamion: it was the casper upload or something else?
[09:50] <Kamion> Mithrandir: ubiquity fix I just committed to bzr
[09:50] <Mithrandir> Kamion: 'k.  I'll look at it Monday or so, I guess.
[09:51] <Kamion> ta. the casper fix was also implicated but less directly
[09:51] <Kamion> needed to fix a bunch of stuff in there, really
[09:58] <udeng> u
[09:58] <udeng> sorry
[09:58] <udeng> sometimes i need a nice output from a bash script, but if i accidentally press a key it gets displayed, which dirties the fine output of the script. how do i tell the console (from the script) to avoid echoing any keyboard input?
[12:39] <jamadagni> i need some help on apt-move
[12:39] <jamadagni> last time i tried at #kubuntu and #ubuntu-motu
[12:39] <jamadagni> but got hlep here only so i am asking here
[12:39] <jamadagni> are my friends listening? ;)
[12:42] <Nafallo> jamadagni: you probably want to use our support channel: #ubuntu.
[12:42] <jamadagni> right posted there
[12:46] <Nafallo> BenC: hi! you saw that the new rt2x00 didn't fix my rt61pci? care to commit the legacy to git?
[12:48] <Nafallo> I don't know who did what. But thanks for the speed improvement since yesterday :-P.
[12:52] <llpamies> Witch package I need to install in EDGY to get the GLUT development files ?
[12:53] <Nafallo> llpamies: sounds like a question for #ubuntu :-).
[12:55] <llpamies> Nafallo: I post it as a BUG, but nobody knows the problem .... https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/freeglut/+bug/60103
[12:55] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 60103 in freeglut "Can't install freeglut3-dev" [Untriaged,Needs info]  
[12:57] <StevenK> llpamies: Try and install xlibmesa-glu-dev, and post to the bug what that outputs?
[12:59] <llpamies> StevenK: Package xlibmesa-glu-dev is not available, but is referred to by another package.
[01:00] <llpamies> In my sources.list I only have official repositories
[03:28] <Riddell> BenC: so we just need the buildds to get a new linux build..
[03:39] <lucas> hi
[03:54] <alejandro> Hi.
[03:59] <mirak> why debconf doesn't use meld to help merging differences of configuration files when updating ?
[04:01] <bddebian> Howdy
[04:04] <pygi> morning bddebian 
[04:04] <bddebian> Hello pygi
[04:33] <Adri2000> hi
[04:34] <Adri2000> do you know that ubuntu-desktop is broken in edgy ?
[04:35] <Nafallo> it's not
[04:37] <Adri2000> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[04:37] <Adri2000>   ubuntu-desktop: Depends: xorg but it is not going to be installed
[04:37] <Adri2000> E: Broken packages
[04:37] <Nafallo> woha
[04:38] <Nafallo> xorg is there though
[04:40] <Hobbsee> Adri2000: doesnt seem broken here.  can you pastebin apt-cache policy ubuntu-desktop && apt-cache policy xorg please?
[04:40] <Hobbsee> Adri2000: also, have you installed from any unofficial repos, including xgl?
[04:43] <Adri2000> yes, i use quinnstorm's repo
[04:43] <Adri2000> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/24516
[04:43] <gnomefreak> ubuntu-desktop has no depends issues here
[04:45] <Nafallo> that means ubuntu-desktop isn't broken ;-)
[04:45] <Hobbsee> oh, this again?
[04:46] <Hobbsee> Adri2000: you'll go thru and find out why xorg isnt installable, and it's actually an xgl problem - better bug quinnstorm about that.
[04:46] <gnomefreak> i cant remember but quinns repos whats to downgrade 2 packages (cant rmemeber what ones) but im betting they are related
[04:46] <gnomefreak> adcomment out quinns repos than run sudo apt-get update than install ubuntu-desktop
[04:47] <gnomefreak> he didnt like our answers i gues
[04:48] <elmo> NOTICE: the Ubuntu wikis (wiki.u.c, wiki.k.o, wiki.e.o, help.u.c) are going into read-only mode for 10 minutes.  after that they'll be down for 10 minutes for some essential maintenance.
[04:49] <Nafallo> elmo: yay! good news :-)
[04:50] <Hobbsee> good thing i wasnt planning to add anything
[04:50] <Hobbsee> Adri2000: you'll go thru and find out why xorg isnt installable, and it's actually an xgl problem - better bug quinnstorm about that.
[04:50] <gnomefreak> me neither
[04:51] <gnomefreak> i say comment out quinns repos than update than install to get a better idea of what is causing it (mathc the versions to ubuntu versions and you will find the issue
[04:51] <Adri2000> xorg: Depends: libgl1-mesa-glx but it is not going to be installed
[04:51] <gnomefreak> s/mathc/match
[04:51] <gnomefreak> Adri2000: its quinns repos
[04:51] <gnomefreak> that i remember
[04:51] <gnomefreak> Adri2000: comment out her repos than install that package
[04:52] <gnomefreak> Adri2000: also for further assistence can you please join #ubuntu-xgl this channel is not for support related issues
[04:53] <Adri2000> ok
[05:02] <elmo> ok, going down now
[05:20] <bluefoxicy> I want a control panel where I can set "secure files in my Home so only I can access them" that sets chmod 700 on ~/ when checked and chmod 755 on ~/ when unchecked
[05:21] <elmo> ok, wikis should be back - sorry it took longer than expected
[05:21] <elkbuntu> elmo, 
[05:22] <elmo> elkbuntu: ?
[05:22] <bluefoxicy> I am going to spec that
[05:22] <bluefoxicy> right now
[05:22] <elkbuntu> elmo, all the conscious marketeers notice the speed change
[05:24] <pygi> elkbuntu: morning :)
[05:24] <elmo> elkbuntu: well that's an excellent demonstration of placebo effect in action :p
[05:25] <elkbuntu> elmo, we dont care the reasons, its not minute long waits trying to edit the UWN
[05:26] <elmo> elkbuntu: ... what I did just now has nothing to do with that - is my point, but never mind
[05:27] <fabbione> elmo: it's your magic touch that makes things go faster.. no matter why :)
[05:27] <fabbione> or how
[05:27] <elkbuntu> exactly!
[05:37] <bluefoxicy> http://rafb.net/paste/results/NVx6xH34.html
[05:37] <bluefoxicy> Does anyone see a problem here?
[05:38] <ivoks> yes, UUOC :)
[05:38] <bluefoxicy> UUOC?
[05:39] <ivoks> useless use of cat :)
[05:39] <bluefoxicy> also why is /bin/*sh not matching /bin/bash
[05:39] <ivoks> bluefoxicy: cause those account need shell to exec their jobs
[05:39] <ivoks> bluefoxicy: .*sh will match it
[05:39] <bluefoxicy> uh  o.o
[05:40] <bluefoxicy> oh thanks
[05:40] <bluefoxicy> ivoks:  they log in through login?
[05:40] <bluefoxicy> or use $SHELL?
[05:40] <ivoks> bluefoxicy: mostly trough cron
[05:40] <bluefoxicy> aha
[05:41] <bluefoxicy> shouldn't they be taught to use /bin/sh then?
[05:41] <ivoks> ?
[05:41] <bluefoxicy> instead of $SHELL
[05:41] <ivoks> i don't undesrstand what you are trying to say
[05:42] <bluefoxicy> things like cups and hplip are all set to have /bin/false as the shell
[05:42] <bluefoxicy> this indicates to me that someone feels it's prudent to not hand out a real log-in shell unless the account really needs it
[05:43] <bluefoxicy> It also occurs to me that programs expecting a normal sh/bsh/ksh/etc will quickly fail if given a different shell (I know Bash scripts fail hard run on normal sh)
[05:43] <bluefoxicy> so I'm thinking
[05:43] <bluefoxicy> such scripts should know what shell they want instead of asking $SHELL
[05:43] <bluefoxicy> and if they don't they should be fixed
[05:44] <ivoks> scripts should call shell for which they are written
[05:44] <bluefoxicy> nobody has its own shell, wtf is that?
[05:44] <bluefoxicy> yes that's what I'm saying
[05:44] <ivoks> it has /bin/sh
[05:44] <bluefoxicy> they shouldn't rely on /etc/passwd and $SHELL ($SHELL comes from /etc/passwd at login time)
[05:45] <bluefoxicy> (I think)
[05:45] <bluefoxicy> anyway it doesn't matter much
[05:45] <ivoks> :)
[05:45] <bluefoxicy> I'll let someone else figure it out.
[05:46] <Yagisan> is linux-image-2.6.17-9-generic panicing on amd64 a known issue ?
[05:49] <lastnode> imbrandon, ping
[05:55] <shining_> Yagisan: depends on the panic
[05:55] <bluefoxicy> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecureHome
[05:55] <shining_> Yagisan: is it bug 61898 ?
[05:55] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 61898 in linux-source-2.6.17 "Kernel Panic - agp_amd64_init" [Untriaged,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61898
[05:56] <Yagisan> shining_, one moment. I'll check the notes I wrote down
[05:56] <Yagisan> shining_, that's it
[05:58] <bluefoxicy> there's a jrmoser "John Moser" user on there o_O
[05:58] <bluefoxicy> <-- John Richard Moser
[06:07] <shining_> Yagisan: here you go then, it's generally better to check launchpad first :)
[06:07] <shining_> bluefoxicy: hmm
[06:19] <Yagisan> shining_, I do check lp - but I notice that I tend to not find them and end up doing dupes :(
[06:23] <shining_> right, sometimes I don't find it easy neither but it's maybe more my fault than launchpad one
[07:39] <fdsd> hey guys
[07:39] <fdsd> I am taking apart my initrd file, I have a bunch of startup scripts and folders and I dont know what they are for, could anyone explain?  they are casper, casper-bottom casper-premount init-bottom init-premount init-top local-botttom local-premount local-top nfs-bottom etc..  Any idea?
[08:02] <stockholm> hm, i was looking for keybuk
[08:02] <stockholm> in order to ask him about unit tests
[08:03] <stockholm> lifeless: what unittest framework do you use with c?
[08:03] <zul> elmo: fyi ill probably have x86 in the next couple of hours, amd64 later on tonight
[08:03] <elmo> zul: rocking, thanks dude
[08:04] <zul> nop
[09:58] <gnomefreak> anyone here?
[09:58] <gnomefreak> has apache2-utils been built(merged) for edgy yet?
[10:00] <wasabi> So, I've managed to break dpkg. process_queue assertion, dependtry <= 4
[10:00] <_ion> Congratulations. :-)
[10:01] <LaserJock> gnomefreak: you could ask Launchpad :-)
[10:01] <_ion> apache2-utils | 2.0.55-4ubuntu2 | http://fi.archive.ubuntu.com edgy/main Packages
[10:01] <gnomefreak> anyway apache2-utils is gonna be breaking upgrades until edgys version is higher than dappers
[10:01] <gnomefreak> dappers is 2.0.55-4ubuntu2 1
[11:53] <Kream> I have a launchpad account, yet can't find ubiquity in launchpad. I want to translate ubiquity. How do I do this?
[11:57] <pepsiman> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+source/ubiquity/+translations
[11:58] <Kream> pepsiman:  thanks. wow. 
[11:58] <pepsiman> 2 whole strings to translate
[11:59] <Kream> pepsiman:  :) i think i was looking for the ubiquity-frontend-gtk|kde
[11:59] <Kream> something really strange. 
[12:00] <Kream>  from https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+search?text=ubiquity , if i click on any of the results, including ubiquity-frontend-gtk, the translations entry on the left is greyed out
[12:00] <pepsiman> that's a binary package search, you want a source package search
[12:01] <pepsiman> the binary package search is completely useless as far as I can see
[12:02] <tuhl> I have still trouble with python2.4-minimal upgrade on edgy 'empty set of versions'
[12:02] <Kream> it certainly looks that way
[12:03] <Kream> pepsiman:  just to know how you got to it, how do I get to the search page for source packages?
[12:03] <Kream> from, say, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy .
[12:04] <tuhl> this bug seems to be open since beginning of sept - any solution available?
[12:05] <crimsun> tuhl: apt-cache policy python-minimal python2.4-minimal |grep Candidate
[12:05] <pepsiman> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/
[12:06] <tuhl> crumsun: thanks
[12:06] <pepsiman> Kream: but I tend to use https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+lang/en_GB?batch=1500 to find translations
[12:07] <tuhl> crumsun:
[12:07] <tuhl>   Candidate: 2.4.3-11ubuntu3
[12:07] <tuhl>   Candidate: 2.4.3-8ubuntu1