[12:10] <AnAnt_> geser: /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/4.1.2/../../../../lib64/crt1.o: could not read symbols: Bad value <= what does that mean ?
[12:10] <geser> look at line 31
[12:10] <AnAnt_> geser: do you have /lib64 in your system ?
[12:11] <geser> yes
[12:11] <AnAnt_> k, so I need to do that -fPIC thing ?
[12:12] <Fujitsu> What info do I need to put in a bug requesting syncing a package that isn't in Ubuntu yet? Just name, version, Debian component and the fact that it's new?
[12:13] <crimsun> yes
[12:13] <crimsun> same sync policy
[12:13] <Fujitsu> I presume I don't have to throw in changelog entries or anything...
[12:13] <AnAnt_> is -fPIC a compile or link option ?
[12:13] <crimsun> former
[12:14] <crimsun> why not?
[12:14] <crimsun> ^^ Fujitsu
[12:14] <minghua> Wow, this tss uses a GPL boilerplate with FSF address "675 Mass Ave, Cambridge"
[12:14] <minghua> isn't that like two versions old?
[12:14] <crimsun> that's impressively outdated
[12:15] <Fujitsu> crimsun: Because there's no changes that have to be checked, because there's no previous version?
[12:15] <Fujitsu> Wow! That's really old.
[12:15] <crimsun> Fujitsu: so you'll have to use the default, which means list them all
[12:15] <Fujitsu> OK.
[12:15] <Fujitsu> Shall do.
[12:19] <minghua> AnAnt_: How to write a good debian/copyright file: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2006/03/msg00023.html
[12:20] <Adri2000> i don't really understand how the queue works, seems that not all packages go through the queue ?
[12:20] <crimsun> "the" queue? there are multiple queues
[12:21] <Adri2000> this one : https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+queue
[12:21] <crimsun> about what are you unclear?
[12:22] <Adri2000> i see a lot of new packages coming in edgy in the rss feed (i think it's the same that edgy changes mailing list), and i don't see this packages in this queue
[12:22] <crimsun> a new source package goes into the NEW queue. After it's accepted, it's built after the next publisher run. The binaries end up in the binary NEW queue. After those are accepted, they're synced to mirrors on the next publisher run.
[12:23] <AnAnt_> minghua: thanks
[12:24] <Adri2000> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+queue < it should be the first queue ? why are there sources and packages ?
[12:24] <crimsun> say you upload a new source package named foobarcrack that generates one binary package, libfoobarcrack0. It goes through the precise process I just described. Now let's say you have a new upstream version that bumps the soname to 1, so you uupdate, adjust the packaging, and upload.
[12:24] <AnAnt_> crimsun: after the source package is accepted & while it's binaries are in the queue, does the source package go to the repos ?
[12:25] <AnAnt_> what is uupdate?
[12:25] <crimsun> Because the source package already exists, it doesn't need to go through the source NEW queue again. Instead, the new binary package, libfoobarcrack1, ends up in the binary NEW queue after it's built. libfoobarcrack1 needs to be ACCEPTed, then it will be published and synced to mirrors.
[12:27] <crimsun> AnAnt_: see uupdate(1)
[12:27] <crimsun> AnAnt_: yes, the source has already been ACCEPTed, published, and perhaps synced
[12:28] <Q-FUNK> crimsun: thanks for the ack on upgrade-system
[12:28] <crimsun> np
[12:28] <Q-FUNK> bug #61626
[12:28] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 61626 in cups-pdf "Please sync cups-pdf (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Untriaged,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61626
[12:28] <Q-FUNK> this is the one thta would make a lot more people happier, though ;)
[12:29] <Q-FUNK> hm.  doesn't it get added to the sync queue once a motu acknowledges it?
[12:30] <Adri2000> crimsun: so only new packages (not updates) appear in https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+queue ?
[12:30] <Fujitsu> Q-FUNK, which sync queue?
[12:31] <LaserJock> Adri2000: right
[12:31] <geser> crimsun: do you know why bug 57632 didn't get picked up by universe sponsors?
[12:31] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 57632 in coolmail "Coolmail segfaults" [Untriaged,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/57632
[12:31] <AnAnt_> crimsun: acon source is not there
[12:32] <crimsun> $ apt-cache madison acon
[12:32] <crimsun>       acon | 1.0.5-0ubuntu1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com edgy/universe Sources
[12:32] <Adri2000> ok LaserJock
[12:32] <Q-FUNK> crimsun: Notice that ubuntu-archive is automatically subscribed using Martin Pitt's sync request script. No point in telling me not to subscribe them.
[12:33] <crimsun> Q-FUNK: I'll speak to Martin about that, then.
[12:33] <AnAnt_> crimsun: ?
[12:33] <AnAnt_> crimsun: I just searched the packages.ubuntu.com site
[12:33] <crimsun> Adri2000: source updates that generate new binary packages still end up in the binary NEW queue just as I described above.
[12:33] <Q-FUNK> crimsun: and the bug is auto-confirmed using that same script too.
[12:34] <crimsun> AnAnt_: packages.uc does not sync every hour.
[12:34] <crimsun> Q-FUNK: again, I'll speak to Martin about that
[12:34] <Adri2000> crimsun: some updates are just binaries ?
[12:34] <crimsun> Adri2000: what are "some updates"?
[12:34] <Fujitsu> Are you sure that pitti means that script to be used by non-MOTUs? That's doing very MOTUish stuff.
[12:34] <AnAnt_> k
[12:34] <Q-FUNK> crimsun: very nice script, but as evidenced by your response, should probably have the commands it sends to malone revised according to what the concensus is.
[12:35] <crimsun> geser: most likely because its subject line falls through my spam filter
[12:35] <Q-FUNK> Fujitsu: IIRC I found it via link of apge describing the steps how to ask for a sync
[12:36] <Adri2000> crimsun: i really do not understand :p all new packages and all updates must be built, ok ? the uploader uploads only the source ?
[12:36] <Q-FUNK> argh.  ...of a wiki page
[12:36] <crimsun> Adri2000: correct, we do only source uploads.
[12:37] <Adri2000> some packages in the queue are binaries ... :/
[12:37] <Q-FUNK> Fujitsu: it had a bit that went like "do the following steps manually or use pitti's nice script at [link] "
[12:37] <AnAnt_> geser: ok, I found that linux32 exists for i386, so I'll compile here first
[12:37] <crimsun> Adri2000: because the source packages generate /new/ binary packages
[12:37] <crimsun> naming-wise
[12:38] <Adri2000> hmmm, it's the same queue for package 1) (source) waiting to be built 2) (binary) waiting to be uploaded
[12:38] <Adri2000> ?
[12:38] <Fujitsu> Yes, NEW.
[12:38] <Q-FUNK> crimsun: though honnestly I find the approach of asking a motu to ask a dev to ask ftp master to do a sync to feature a needlessly huge number of steps.
[12:39] <Adri2000> then i understand :)
[12:39] <crimsun> Q-FUNK: a MOTU /is/ a member of ubuntu-dev.
[12:40] <Q-FUNK> ok
[12:40] <crimsun> random joe should not be able to get an approved sync. A Debian developer is not a random joe, OTOH.
[12:40] <Q-FUNK> so why do I still get a feeling that getting a sync approved still goes thru one too many steps?
[12:40] <Fujitsu> Q-FUNK, it doesn't.
[12:41] <Q-FUNK> there you go.  I maintain the packages on which I request a sync.  it shouldn't have to be so difficult.
[12:41] <LaserJock> Q-FUNK: how would we remove steps?
[12:41] <Fujitsu> LaserJock, I'm wondering the same. It's minimal as it is.
[12:41] <crimsun> Q-FUNK: you're also not a member of ubuntu-dev.
[12:41] <LaserJock> Q-FUNK: well, but that's a bit different, tbh
[12:41] <Q-FUNK> by dirrectly allowing the maintainer at debian to request a sync if he notices his packages drifting away at ubuntu, maybe?
[12:42] <crimsun> then become a member of ubuntu-dev.
[12:42] <Fujitsu> LaserJock, want to look at python-{scipy,numpy}/matplotlib? I've had to remove a bashism in matplotlib's debian/copyright generator script, but otherwise the diffs are pretty small.
[12:42] <Q-FUNK> crimsun: you're missing the point.
[12:42] <crimsun> just because it's your package doesn't automatically give you rights to push into someone else's repo.
[12:43] <Adri2000> i have a package waiting since the 18th to be built. is it just that no archive admin had time to accept it yet, or may there be a problem ?
[12:43] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: sure, give me a url of the debdiffs
[12:43] <LaserJock> Adri2000: time
[12:43] <LaserJock> sometimes we wait for a couple weeks
[12:43] <LaserJock> it just depends on how much time people have
[12:43] <Q-FUNK> crimsun: I'm gonna be blunt about this one:  you're rude and completely in the woods.
[12:43] <crimsun> Q-FUNK: it was not my decision, I simply abide by it.
[12:44] <LaserJock> Q-FUNK: dude the same thing goes the other way
[12:44] <LaserJock> I maintain a package in Ubuntu but I still have to go through a sponsor in Debian
[12:44] <LaserJock> no different
[12:44] <LaserJock> I'm an ubuntu-dev and not a DD so I have to play by Debian's rules
[12:44] <LaserJock> and that's the way it *should* be
[12:45] <Q-FUNK> oh but there IS a key difference:  Debian is essentially Ubuntu's upstream.
[12:45] <crimsun> let's say I work for Red Hat and make a package. Debian (and Ubuntu) pull in the source package. Do I automatically have the right to request a sync for /my/ maintained package?
[12:45] <Adri2000> LaserJock: a couple weeks ? :/ only 5 days remaining before the universe freeze :/
[12:45] <crimsun> If I wish to have my maintained package synced, I need to abide by Debian's policies.
[12:45] <LaserJock> Q-FUNK: that's doesn't matter really, would you allow your upstream to ask for a new upstream release directly?
[12:46] <Q-FUNK> crimsun: let's just say that if you bother merging a fix that specifically benefits debian and ubuntu, it would be a good idea for debian and ubuntu to sync.
[12:47] <crimsun> Q-FUNK: I'm not at all discussing whether syncing is good. I'm saying there's policy in place, and it holds /regardless/ what direction originated the work.
[12:47] <Fujitsu> Then upstream can request it, but it will still have to go through the proper channels.
[12:49] <crimsun> I may be rude, yes, but that's the way it works in Debian, and it's the way it works in Ubuntu.
[12:49] <Q-FUNK> crimsun: see the code of conduct and call us back in the morning.
[12:50] <Fujitsu> LaserJock, http://people.ubuntu.com.au/~fujitsu/scipy_etc
[12:50] <LaserJock> Q-FUNK: what? he didn't say anything that was against the CoC
[12:50] <crimsun> If anyone else believes I've overstepped my bounds as a member, please do speak up.
[12:50] <Fujitsu> Nope, you're fine, crimsun.
[12:50] <Q-FUNK> LaserJock: he was rude. that's clearly agaisnt the CoC.
[12:50] <LaserJock> he was not rude
[12:51] <LaserJock> he just simply stated that being the debian maintainer doesn't give you the right to push stuff in Ubuntu
[12:51] <Fujitsu> Q-FUNK, was he? I didn't see that anywhere.
[12:51] <LaserJock> and that is 100% correct regarding policy
[12:51] <LaserJock> you are not an ubuntu-dev or ubuntu-core-dev
[12:51] <Q-FUNK> exactly how am I pushing anything?  I'm not ftp master anywhere, am I?
[12:52] <LaserJock> ok, so s/pushing/upload or aprrove upload/
[12:53] <crimsun> (I believe the correct semantics are "following policy.")
[12:53] <LaserJock> so I really fail to see rudeness there and certainly not a violation of the CoC
[12:53] <Q-FUNK> it would be a lot simpler to simply disable some launchpad functions for people who are not ubuntu-dev.
[12:54] <Fujitsu> Q-FUNK, like!?
[12:54] <LaserJock> they are
[12:54] <LaserJock> some things
[12:54] <LaserJock> I'm not really sure what you are getting at though
[12:54] <LaserJock> you can request a sync
[12:54] <Q-FUNK> apparently not.  crimsun was complaining about me setting certain flags that, for some reasons, were accessible to me.
[12:55] <LaserJock> Q-FUNK: well, that is a bit hard
[12:55] <Q-FUNK> such as subscribing some teams that, for some reasons, shouldn't have been.
[12:55] <LaserJock> as the flags can be used for other things
[12:55] <Fujitsu> Q-FUNK, it's not sane to disable confirming of bugs.
[12:55] <crimsun> I wasn't complaining at all. I simply asked you not to subscribe u-a first, which is not at all your fault.
[12:56] <crimsun> Again, I've reiterated the point that I'll speak with Martin concerning it.
[12:56] <Q-FUNK> crimsun: might help to avoid using imperative forms in your comments then.
[12:56] <crimsun> I fail to see how that's actually relevant.
[12:57] <Q-FUNK> anyhow, I'm not interested in draging this on forever.
[12:57] <crimsun> Nor am I.
[12:57] <LaserJock> yes
[12:57] <LaserJock> thanks for the concern Q-FUNK with your package
[12:57] <Q-FUNK> my only point is this:  some maintainers at debian will gladly merge patches to help thin out the delta. I'm one of them. it would help if there were simple steps they could follow to keep track.
[12:58] <LaserJock> sorry the script led you to something we'd like to avoid
[12:58] <LaserJock> hopefully we'll get that fixed
[12:58] <crimsun> I certainly believe sync policies could be amended to allow Debian maintainers some greater leeway.
[12:58] <LaserJock> mhm
[12:59] <Fujitsu> Oh no. Another OOo upload.
[12:59] <LaserJock> Q-FUNK: keep track of what? the whole syncing proccess?
[01:00] <Nafallo> Fujitsu: that one has been there for a while, or are my mailserver not keeping up? :-)
[01:00] <Toadstool> Q-FUNK: and that's why lucas tried to launch an Ubuntu "Debian Collaboration Team" but he and I didn't have time to really work on that so far :/
[01:00] <Toadstool> hi everybody
[01:00] <Fujitsu> Nafallo, about 3 hours ago.
[01:00] <Q-FUNK> personally, the only thing I would need to have more painless interaction is to be enpowered to directly request the sync and confirm that I can build in a $release chroot.
[01:00] <Nafallo> Fujitsu: old one then ;-). already on half of the buildds :-P
[01:01] <crimsun> Q-FUNK: I concur.
[01:01] <LaserJock> Q-FUNK: yep, sounds pretty reasonable
[01:01] <Q-FUNK> I already am on launchpad and I keep track of useful fixes.  I tend to merge them back rather quickly, as long as I don't notice any break in Debian.
[01:02] <crimsun> Q-FUNK: I believe the most efficient manner for the sync process to be adjusted for Edgy+1 is to raise the issue on the ubuntu-devel mailing list, which may necessitate bringing it before the Technical Board.
[01:02] <Q-FUNK> the script already does what I need (although, as I understand, the commands it passes to Malone should not be in a non- ubuntu-dev's hands).
[01:02] <Fujitsu> It is TB material, yes.
[01:02] <Toadstool> Q-FUNK: do you think something like what's described in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DCT would help?
[01:03] <LaserJock> I think some of the problem too, is that there aren't that many DDs that are doing that. We simple haven't come across those issues
[01:03] <LaserJock> much
[01:03] <LaserJock> our normal process is to have lots of non-devs working away on merges and syncs and having a good approval process is important
[01:04] <Q-FUNK> LaserJock: TBH, a lot of DDs would glady help if e.g. pitti's script could be modified in a bullet-proof way.
[01:04] <Q-FUNK> then, the only other stape woud be to have a user on launchpad to interact with users.
[01:04] <Fujitsu> Q-FUNK, a lot of DDs hate Ubuntu, though.
[01:04] <LaserJock> mhm
[01:04] <LaserJock> not a lot
[01:04] <LaserJock> some
[01:04] <Q-FUNK> some
[01:05] <Q-FUNK> an outragous minority, I would say
[01:05] <crimsun> bug 61949 needs another MOTU advocate (ACK the sync request).
[01:05] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 61949 in Ubuntu "Please sync treeviewx 0.5.1-1 from Debian Sid (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61949
[01:05] <LaserJock> ah, I got that one
[01:05] <Q-FUNK> Toadstool: yes
[01:05] <Fujitsu> It needs two?
[01:05] <Q-FUNK> Toadstool: it's a very good start
[01:06] <crimsun> Fujitsu: (same policy as with REVU and new packages)
[01:06] <Fujitsu> Ah, OK.
[01:06] <Q-FUNK> Fujitsu: most DDs and Debian users I know tend to do like me and hand out Ubuntu CDs to everyone they know.
[01:07] <Nafallo> Q-FUNK: rock on! :-)
[01:07] <Fujitsu> :)
[01:07] <Nafallo> baah. I've seen to much of jdub lately ;-)
[01:09] <Q-FUNK> but basically, if all a DD needs to help is to:
[01:09] <Q-FUNK>  1) sign on to launchpad to be able to comment bugs.
[01:09] <Q-FUNK> 2) have a handy script to request a sync and a clear checklist of items to confirm in that sync request.
[01:09] <Q-FUNK> then I think that we can make the delat between most packages disappear in no time.
[01:09] <Q-FUNK> delta
[01:10] <Q-FUNK> typos r us
[01:10] <Fujitsu> Yes, that'd be really great.
[01:10] <crimsun> That's quite probable, and I'd like to make that a reality.
[01:10] <LaserJock> me too
[01:11] <crimsun> I also encourage you to do sustained Ubuntu work so you can upload directly to the Ubuntu repository.
[01:11] <Q-FUNK> here, I'm just amazed at how long it's taking to get what was a trivial fix on a package to finally get in.
[01:12] <crimsun> yes, it is quite shameful
[01:12] <crimsun> Just look at the backlog on REVU for a better idea
[01:12] <Q-FUNK> sure.  I'd love to do that.  mind you, I'm mostly focusing on advocacy and promotion.
[01:13] <Fujitsu> Ubuntu could really use more (active) MOTUs :(
[01:13] <crimsun> any and all help are welcome.
[01:13] <LaserJock> well, when you consider how many active MOTUs there are ...
[01:13] <Fujitsu> LaserJock, count on two hands?
[01:13] <LaserJock> yep
[01:13] <Q-FUNK> Fujitsu: is it that bad?
[01:13] <Fujitsu> Q-FUNK, I believe so. I'm not a MOTU, though.
[01:13] <Fujitsu> So I'm not helping that statistic.
[01:13] <LaserJock> I'd say there are about 5 MOTUs that do most of the work
[01:14] <Fujitsu> Ouch.
[01:14] <Q-FUNK> what obstacles do you see that currently prevent more people from joining and from participating?
[01:14] <Fujitsu> That's 3000 packages each :P
[01:14] <crimsun> You just named one. There're also resource constraints.
[01:14] <LaserJock> Q-FUNK: more or less, getting people to commit to it and getting them to where they have the technical ability
[01:15] <LaserJock> I've hardly touched packaging for edgy
[01:15] <LaserJock> simply have too many things to do
[01:15] <Q-FUNK> what would be a good way to get e.g. people frustrated by Debian's NM process and yet who already have a few good packages at Debian to prove their worth to join in?
[01:16] <LaserJock> Q-FUNK: fixing bugs, doing merges and syncs
[01:17] <LaserJock> part of it right now is the fast release cycle and time commitment
[01:17] <Q-FUNK> erm... you read that backwards.  or well, maybe I write to long sentnces.  lemme rephrase:
[01:17] <LaserJock> if I just had to maintain 5-10 packages as I do in Debian
[01:17] <LaserJock> it wouldn't be a big problem
[01:17] <LaserJock> but I'm trying to keep track of 400+ packages
[01:18] <Q-FUNK> what would be a good way to get people, who proved their worth at debian with good packages and good maintenance habits, to have a painless motu membership?
[01:18] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Yes, there aren't many science MOTUs, unfortunately.
[01:18] <LaserJock> pretty much what I said + showing up here and proving you're a part of the team
[01:18] <crimsun> A few Ubuntu devs have gone that route, Q-FUNK, like StevenK and azeem to name two.
[01:19] <LaserJock> many NMs can become MOTUs in I'd say in 1-2 months if they work at it
[01:19] <Q-FUNK> I know many people who have had their packages sponsored for ages, some of them even having completed NM and yet without their DD account yet and who are going nuts with the bureaucracy at debian.
[01:19] <LaserJock> the Community Council and Technical Board do tack into account Debian maintainership activity
[01:19] <Nafallo> ajmitch! :-D
[01:20] <crimsun> ajmitch was in the Hoary exception group (where we gained both membership and MOTU) in one step.
[01:21] <Nafallo> hmm, I wonder if I was.
[01:21] <Q-FUNK> there's a lot of people losing motivation at debian right now and mjray was only the tip of the iceberg.
[01:21] <LaserJock> Q-FUNK: well it happens, but I know for sure that a 2-3 NM process is not something I feel like going through
[01:22] <Q-FUNK> some old experienced DDs but also a LOT of new faces with lots of motivation and plenty of afterschool time to spare.
[01:22] <Q-FUNK> LaserJock: a 2-3 NM ?
[01:22] <LaserJock> 2-3 year
[01:23] <Q-FUNK> ah
[01:23] <Q-FUNK> yes
[01:23] <Q-FUNK> well, it varies a lot.
[01:23] <LaserJock> however, it does weed out a lot of people I suppose
[01:23] <Q-FUNK> I've known peole to pass it within 1 month
[01:23] <Q-FUNK> yes and no
[01:23] <crimsun> Nafallo: I _think_ you were. Yeah, my memory's horrible, too.
[01:24] <Q-FUNK> the delay is completely arbitrary.  partly due on the AM's availabilty, but also sometimes due to the DAMnation of never getting the account created for personal vendeta.
[01:25] <LaserJock> crimsun: should I subscribe ubuntu-archive to the treeviewx sync?
[01:25] <Fujitsu> Thanks LaserJock :)
[01:25] <Q-FUNK> I've also noticed people who's approval was fast-tracked.
[01:25] <crimsun> LaserJock: please do
[01:25] <Q-FUNK> erm... whose
[01:25] <crimsun> geser: apologies for the delay; I'll process it tonight
[01:26] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: do you have a url for the matplotlib, etc. ?
[01:26] <Fujitsu> LaserJock, I mentioned it a while back... Wait a sec.
[01:26] <Nafallo> Q-FUNK: we already have the accounts on launchpad and just get approval to the right groups. that's mostly happening the moment you get approved in the meeting :-).
 LaserJock, http://people.ubuntu.com.au/~fujitsu/scipy_etc
[01:26] <LaserJock> I don't know, I sort of feel like we perhaps to a lot more non-packaging related stuff in Ubuntu
[01:27] <minghua> Q-FUNK: I think Keith Packard (fontconfig upstream and maintainer) got through NM pretty fast
[01:27] <Q-FUNK> LaserJock: localisation, documentation and marketing-related stuff such as artwork and the overall polish have a bigger importance at ubuntu.
[01:28] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: ok, I'll take a look soonish
[01:28] <Q-FUNK> minghua: could be
[01:28] <Fujitsu> Thanks, LaserJock.
[01:29] <Q-FUNK> that's actually a discussion we've had one too many times here at local LUGs.  we're all debian users and yet we have to admit that the ubuntu CD really is what 99% of this planet needs.
[01:30] <geser> while we are collect ACKs for Sync Requests bug 61955 needs also two, doesn't it?
[01:30] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 61955 in Ubuntu "[Sync Request]  sylpheed-claws-gtk2-extra-plugins 2.5.0~rc3-1 from Debian unstable (main)" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61955
[01:30] <LaserJock> ok, gota get home
[01:30] <Fujitsu> Bye.
[01:30] <Q-FUNK> mostly because that single CD contains exactly what a desktop user needs and the default settings are sane.
[01:30] <crimsun> geser: yes.
[01:31] <minghua> Q-FUNK: you can't be too sure :-)  in some area with different language and different economy, Debian may still has the advantage
[01:32] <Q-FUNK> minghua: how?
[01:33] <Q-FUNK> especially looking at the emphasis that ubuntu puts on localisation, which is something that just barely got taken care of at debian
[01:33] <minghua> Q-FUNK: I am from China.  I know a Ubuntu-derivative in China choose to start from Xubuntu, because (K)Ubuntu is a bit slow on the average machine in China
[01:33] <minghua> Q-FUNK: the emphasis on l10n, for sure, but it's not there yet
[01:33] <Q-FUNK> they've have denis and bubulle taking care of locales and coordinating the merging of trnaslations, but having a localisation infrastructure is soemthing quite recent at debian
[01:33] <minghua> at least not dapper
[01:34] <minghua> I know India's local language linux is a debian derivative
[01:35] <minghua> because debian has better language support
[01:35] <Q-FUNK> minghua: for that, I think that the main issue is that gnome and kde are complte DEs and have been localized for a long time.
[01:35] <minghua> things may start changing in edgy
[01:35] <minghua> but I know dapper is not there
[01:35] <Q-FUNK> what's missing?
[01:36] <minghua> I think the input method of quite a lot of languages in dapper is broken/half-broken
[01:36] <Q-FUNK> ah yes
[01:36] <minghua> e.g., you can't input in Qt apps if you install Ubuntu
[01:36] <minghua> nor GTK apps if you install Kubuntu
[01:37] <minghua> the input method support in dapper is quite rushed, IMHO
[01:37] <Q-FUNK> kmuto told me a bit about that.  the free desktop needs unified input tools
[01:37] <minghua> Q-FUNK: oh, so you were at the i18n Ex... meeting?
[01:37] <Q-FUNK> it's not dapper, mind you.  it's just that each DE exists in its own universe.
[01:38] <minghua> Q-FUNK: no, it's some simple oversight in the settings
[01:38] <Q-FUNK> no but kmuto was and we previously met at debconf5
[01:38] <minghua> Q-FUNK: trust me, I know this business, I am the maintainer of scim in debian
[01:38] <Q-FUNK> minghua: ok.  have those oversights been reported in malone? ;)
[01:38] <minghua> Q-FUNK: yes
[01:38] <Q-FUNK> ah :)
[01:38] <minghua> Q-FUNK: but nobody seems to care much
[01:39] <Q-FUNK> hm..
[01:39] <minghua> I am a MOTU myself, but I can't fix them because the packages are in main
[01:39] <AnAnt> what's the difference between preinst & postinst ?
[01:39] <chillywilly> geez, burning this data DVD is taking forever
[01:39] <chillywilly> I should've provided the -speed arg
[01:39] <Q-FUNK> minghua: tried mentioning it to the localisation and internationalistion teams?
[01:39] <minghua> that was a quite bitter experience, to be honest
[01:39] <minghua> Q-FUNK: where is said team?
[01:39] <chillywilly> and I am still at work :(
[01:40] <chillywilly> got 2 mnore full DVDs to go and then ~1.4GB on the last one
[01:40] <minghua> Q-FUNK: to be fair, most of the bugs reported are fixed in edgy
[01:41] <chillywilly> they're actually DVD isos of my Ubuntu mirror so I have all the software available when I upgrade the server tomorrowa
[01:41] <chillywilly> have to rebuild the sangoma card driver for the T1 so I'll be offline
[01:41] <AnAnt> geser: still there ?
[01:41] <chillywilly> should've made a deb package for it
[01:41] <minghua> Q-FUNK: but as dapper claims to emphasize on l10n, and is going to be supported for 5 years...
[01:41] <geser> AnAnt: yes
[01:41] <AnAnt> ping geser
[01:42] <AnAnt> geser: k, I think I fixed it
[01:43] <Nafallo> minghua: who cares about l10n on a server anyway? :-)
[01:43] <AnAnt> geser: so I will upload nspluginwrapper
[01:44] <geser> will try a rebuild as soon as it's there
[01:44] <minghua> Nafallo: true, but still, dapper is current up-to-date stable, and we released 6.06.2, but things didn't improve (although bugs were reported before that)
[01:45] <minghua> Nafallo: I admit I was exaggerating
[01:45] <chillywilly> bah, this DVD burner is slow...won't go any faster than 2x
[01:45] <AnAnt> geser: is linux32 used to run 32-bit apps on 64-bit Ubuntu ?
[01:45] <Nafallo> what? have there been another milestone released?
[01:45] <AnAnt> ping minghua
[01:45] <AnAnt> ping Mithrandir
[01:45] <minghua> or 6.06.1? sorry I don't know for sure
[01:45] <AnAnt> minghua: sorry, wrong tab completion !
[01:45] <geser> AnAnt: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/reference/ch-system.en.html#s-maintscripts (for preinst and postinst)
[01:46] <AnAnt> geser: thanks,
[01:46] <minghua> Nafallo: and actually when I think about it, maybe there are people care about l10n on server
[01:46] <Nafallo> minghua: ah, 6.06.1 indeed :-). I only run that on servers anyway, so I won't really know.
[01:47] <geser> AnAnt: linux32 is used to give the kernel a 32bit personality
[01:47] <Nafallo> minghua: oh, right! l10n != i18n.
[01:47] <AnAnt> geser: meaning ?
[01:47] <geser> e.g. uname -m returns x86_64 but linux32 uname -m return i686
[01:47] <tseng> meaning it tells the app "hey you are running on a 32-bit box, act accordingly"
[01:47] <geser> you can run 32bit apps without linux32, you only need 32bit libs
[01:47] <minghua> Nafallo: what about those accounting dept. in China?  they need a stable system for the payroll system and they need inputting Chinese names
[01:47] <Q-FUNK> minghua: https://launchpad.net/people/desktop-bugs
[01:48] <AnAnt> how can I know the name of the architecture I am on ?
[01:49] <AnAnt> I see that there is dpkg-architecture
[01:49] <tseng> dpkg-architecture
[01:49] <minghua> Q-FUNK: you mean l10n and i18n team?
[01:49] <Nafallo> minghua: yea, that's i18n. I don't really know that, since I'm from Sweden and we have quite working both i18n and l10n.
[01:49] <AnAnt> tseng: there are many, outputs, which should I use ?
[01:49] <tseng> you can also parse uname -a
[01:49] <Nafallo> or uname -m :-)
[01:50] <AnAnt> BUILD_ARCH, HOST_ARCH, HOST_ARCH_CPU , which ?
[01:51] <minghua> Nafallo: yeah, I hear sweden has good l10n.  you weird people having two scripts for one language :-)
[01:51] <Nafallo> hehe, do we? :-)
[01:51] <Q-FUNK> minghua: that's the only group I foudn that could remotely be interested
[01:51] <minghua> was I wrong?...
[01:51] <geser> AnAnt: what do you want to archieve?
[01:52] <Nafallo> i18n has UTF-8, iso-8859-1 and iso-8859-15. if that's what you mean with scripts :-)
[01:52] <minghua> Q-FUNK: yeah, thanks.  but I don't think it's really proper to bother all of them.  and I am busy anyway
[01:52] <Q-FUNK> minghua: I'm affraid that you were right.  wanna start a team called i18n and another called input-methods? ;)
[01:52] <AnAnt> geser: ok, I need to do a symlink in postinst
[01:53] <minghua> Q-FUNK: there is a developer (MOTU) working on the input methods in ubuntu, but one person is probably not enough
[01:53] <minghua> Q-FUNK: maybe not yet...
[01:53] <Q-FUNK> minghua: create a team with him.  generate momentum.
[01:53] <AnAnt> geser: but it seems that the file I need to symlink to is in /usr/lib/nspluginwrapper/<ARCH>/FILE
[01:53] <minghua> Q-FUNK: unfortunately we don't have a very good relationship
[01:53] <Q-FUNK> ah :(
[01:54] <Q-FUNK> minghua: blog about it?
[01:54] <minghua> I thought his pushing input methods into dapper was pre-mature, and obviously he doesn't agree
[01:55] <Q-FUNK> minghua: if all it takes is merging a few simple fixes, surely bloging about it on planet ubuntu will wake someone up to merge them?
[01:55] <minghua> Q-FUNK: Hmm, tempting.  But I am not aggregated in any planet.  And the problem is much smaller in edgy anyway
[01:55] <Q-FUNK> minghua: any other chinese ubuntu developer on the planet?  if not, might as well jump in. :)
[01:56] <geser> AnAnt: most likely DEB_HOST_GNU_CPU or DEB_HOST_ARCH_CPU
[01:56] <minghua> Q-FUNK: I don't really know the policy for dapper-updates
[01:56] <minghua> Q-FUNK: and my focus is on Debian currently (as etch release is close)
[01:57] <Q-FUNK> minghua: it's not that importnat.  blog something as simple as "I made a simple patch to harmonize the input methods on gnome and kde. it's already in debian. could someone be so kind as to merge in ubuntu?"
[01:57] <AnAnt> geser: what's the difference between the X & X_CPU
[01:57] <AnAnt> ?
[01:57] <minghua> Q-FUNK: not as far as I know (Chinese developer on planet)
[01:58] <minghua> Q-FUNK: sorry for being unclear.  The settings are ubuntu-specific, Debian is now doing it in etch, but in different way
[01:58] <Q-FUNK> ah
[01:59] <Q-FUNK> well, almost the same message, still.
[01:59] <Q-FUNK> it could work :)
[01:59] <minghua> Q-FUNK: and these two ways are probably also where I and the other Ubuntu input method developer have different opinions
[01:59] <Q-FUNK> oh.
[02:00] <minghua> my time is limited, so for now I'll concentrate on debian etch
[02:00] <Q-FUNK> ok
[02:00] <Q-FUNK> hopefully edgy will work
[02:00] <minghua> maybe post edgy, I'll write something (hopefully by then etch will have a working example to illustrate my points)
[02:01] <minghua> Q-FUNK: edgy works much better than dapper, for sure
[02:01] <Q-FUNK> although edgy release is before etch
[02:01] <geser> AnAnt: sorry, I don't know
[02:01] <minghua> yeah, let's just hope etch is before edgy+1 ;-)
[02:01] <AnAnt_> geser: sorry, I was d/c
[02:02] <Q-FUNK> minghua: well, hopefully something good will come up.  here, I count myself lucky enough that I only need UTF-8 and 2 keyboard maps.
[02:02] <geser> AnAnt: sorry, I don't know the difference
[02:02] <AnAnt> k
[02:03] <AnAnt> geser: I re-uploaded nspluginwrapper
[02:03] <minghua> Q-FUNK: 2 keyboard maps being English and Swedish?
[02:03] <AnAnt> it's still in the incoming dir
[02:03] <Q-FUNK> minghua: finnish (same as swedish, for now) and russian phonetic.
[02:04] <minghua> and talking about UTF-8, I hate those legacy encodings for Chinese
[02:04] <minghua> Q-FUNK: so you use the Finnish one to type English, I suppose?
[02:04] <Q-FUNK> thee's loose talks about makng the finnish keyboard diverge from scandinavian layouts and to make it closer to the estonian layout.
[02:05] <Q-FUNK> yup
[02:06] <AnAnt> geser: ok, it's there
[02:06] <Q-FUNK> well, it's mostly about altering the basic qwerty layout to insert frequenty used foreign letters to their own keys.
[02:07] <Q-FUNK> here, I have the 2 extra finnish vowels plus one swedish vowel on their own keys.
[02:08] <Q-FUNK> the rusian keymap is a different story altogether, since we use the cyrillic alphabet instead of the latin alphabet.
[02:09] <Q-FUNK>  on my 
[02:10] <Nafallo>  :-)
[02:10] <minghua> Q-FUNK: by the way, I was wrong, the weird people having two scripts are Norwegians :-)
[02:10] <minghua> sorry, Nafallo ^^^
[02:10] <Q-FUNK> 2 scripts?
[02:11] <Q-FUNK> you mean two national language variants?
[02:11] <Nafallo> Q-FUNK: nynorsk and bokml :-)
[02:11] <Q-FUNK> tought so
[02:11] <minghua> yeah, I don't know the details
[02:11] <Nafallo> or rather nn and nb :-)
[02:11] <minghua> they write differently but using the same script?
[02:12] <minghua> or are they just different languages?
[02:12] <Nafallo> I think the keyboard is NO for them
[02:12] <minghua> weird people either way :-)
[02:12] <Q-FUNK> nynorsk is tryng to receate old norse by making a compund languge from what remains of old slangs in northern villages.
[02:12] <AnAnt> geser: you testing it ?
[02:12] <geser> yes, it still fails with the same error
[02:12] <Q-FUNK> bokml is modernized danish, which is what was spoken in norway during danish alliance.
[02:12] <Nafallo> We have SE.{se,fi}
[02:12] <AnAnt> wierd
[02:13] <AnAnt> geser: in the compile, do you see a -fPIC ?
[02:13] <Nafallo> though I don't know the difference ;-)
[02:13] <Nafallo> s/SE/SV/
[02:13] <Q-FUNK> sv_NO
[02:13] <minghua> I see, thanks Q-FUNK
[02:13] <geser> AnAnt: yes, I see the -fPIC
[02:14] <Nafallo> right, sv_SE and sv_FI :-)
[02:14] <AnAnt> hmmm
[02:14] <AnAnt> and the error asks for -fPIC ?
[02:14] <Nafallo> Q-FUNK: _NO? :-P
[02:14] <geser> yes
[02:14] <AnAnt> geser: do you see -fPIC in compile & link or in one of them only ?
[02:14] <Q-FUNK> Nafallo: :-P
[02:15] <geser> compile and link
[02:15] <Q-FUNK> well, they say that norwegian is swedish spoken by a dane. :-P
[02:15] <AnAnt> geser: hmmm, dunno then, you got any ideas ?
[02:15] <geser> AnAnt: inside the objs32 dir do you try to build 32bit?
[02:15] <Nafallo> Q-FUNK: haha! :-)
[02:16] <Q-FUNK> hence sv_NO
[02:16] <AnAnt> geser: dunno, I just followed the steps in README
[02:17] <Nafallo> ah, that's what you where doing ;-)
[02:17] <AnAnt> geser: but it seems so ( I think )
[02:17] <Q-FUNK> Nafallo: say, tehcnically, that would mena that you guys speka skne? ;)
[02:18] <Nafallo> Q-FUNK: naah, that's more sv_DK :-)
[02:18] <AnAnt> got to sleep
[02:18] <Q-FUNK> or would it be dk_SE ?
[02:19] <Q-FUNK> and they we throw Vermlan into the equation...
[02:20] <Nafallo> haha
[02:20] <Nafallo> that can't even be compared to something else ;-)
[02:20] <Q-FUNK> kyllp
[02:21] <Q-FUNK> se on vanhaa suomee :D
[02:21] <Q-FUNK> with a lot of eally old swedish blended in
[02:22] <Q-FUNK> it's that odd language we speak speak east of land
[02:22] <Q-FUNK> vermlan is more of the same, only much older
[02:23] <Nafallo> hehe, oki :-)
[02:24] <Nafallo> and yes, that language is just odd :-P
[02:24] <Nafallo> we atleast stole some words from other langs ;-)
[02:24] <Nafallo> somehow you people managed not to do that ;-)
[02:24] <Q-FUNK> we did
[02:25] <Q-FUNK> not as much as estonians did, but we did
[02:25] <Nafallo> oh? from where? I've never heard something quite like finish anywhere else :-)
[02:25] <Q-FUNK> estonia.
[02:25] <Nafallo> s/ini/inni/
[02:26] <Nafallo> hmm, oki. I don't think I've heard that either though ;-)
[02:26] <Q-FUNK> to give you an idea, estonia is danish, finnish is swedish and hungarian is icelandic.
[02:27] <Nafallo> ah :-)
[02:28] <Nafallo> but then again. I don't understand either danish not icelandic, so you're probably pretty much on your own then ;-)
[02:28] <Nafallo> s/not/nor/
[02:28] <Q-FUNK> minghua: I purposely used an analogy that refers to the position of scandinavians in the linguistic tree.  estonian and danish are both the simplest in theirs, finnish and swedish the more formal, hungarian and icelandic the more far out.
[02:29] <Nafallo> danish is simple? :-P
[02:29] <Q-FUNK> much simpler than bokml
[02:29] <Nafallo> can't agree with that :-)
[02:29] <Q-FUNK> it's just that well, how should I put this nicely... they speak with a hot potato in their mouth after going to the dentist.
[02:30] <Nafallo> I can understand NO, but not the other langs up here :-)
[02:30] <minghua> Q-FUNK: I really appreciate the explanation.  I can imagine that's a analogy on linguistic relationship, it's just a bit hard to imagine what the relationship exactly is when you know none of the six languages involved :-)
[02:30] <Nafallo> lol! true that! :-)
[02:30] <Nafallo> minghua: hehe ;-)
[02:31] <Q-FUNK> minghua: I'm sure you could cook up something similar about all main chinese languages.
[02:31] <minghua> oh, Chinese languages are probably more convoluted
[02:31] <minghua> especially we have scripts involved as well
[02:32] <StevenK> Q-FUNK: I got through NM in 5 days, for what it's worth.
[02:33] <Q-FUNK> StevenK: that was really quick.
[02:33] <StevenK> Q-FUNK: Yes, and I didn't even know about all the crap that NM is really really slow until after I was a DD. :-)
[02:34] <Q-FUNK> StevenK: when was that, though?
[02:35] <StevenK> Q-FUNK: 2001
[02:35] <Q-FUNK> ok
[02:35] <Q-FUNK> right after NM was started?
[02:35] <StevenK> Um...
[02:35] <StevenK> Pretty soon after NM was re-opened.
[02:35] <Q-FUNK> ok
[02:36] <Q-FUNK> there was no backlog I guess
[02:36] <StevenK> There was an eight month break when NM was closed, so that the processes could be reviewed.
[02:36] <Q-FUNK> was that when dam threatened to leave the project?
[02:36] <StevenK> I don't remember that happening.
[02:37] <StevenK> However, I was not really involved when NM was closed.
[02:37] <Q-FUNK> ah
[02:38] <Q-FUNK> to me, you've been there forever.
[02:38] <Q-FUNK> at least, I remember your name from too far back to remember.
[02:40] <Nafallo> StevenK: you are :-)
[02:40] <Q-FUNK> signed your key at debconf5
[02:41] <StevenK> Ah ha
[02:41] <StevenK> Nafallo: Oh stop. ;-)
[02:42] <Nafallo> StevenK: I just did a /whois on you for the first time... so you are! :-)
[02:44] <StevenK> ajmitch and a few others went, "You're a DD!" *latch*
[02:44] <tseng> wasnt me
[02:45] <Nafallo> haha
[02:45] <Fujitsu> Haha.
[02:45] <Q-FUNK> heh.
[02:46] <Q-FUNK> omg! IT'S HIM!
[02:46] <Nafallo> :-)
[02:47] <StevenK> Q-FUNK: I've done that in real life when I saw Ted T'so at LCA 2002.
[02:47] <Nafallo> hehe
[02:49] <Q-FUNK> :D
[03:12] <bddebian> Heya gang
[03:16] <Fujitsu> Hi.
[03:23] <crimsun> Fujitsu: please respin your gnomebaker 0.6.0 diff.gz to include previous Ubuntu changelog history
[03:24] <Toadstool> re
[03:26] <crimsun> re Jrmie
[03:26] <Toadstool> :)
[03:33] <Fujitsu> crimsun, OK... But why? It would have lost it in the sync that would have happened otherwise. It's not based on the Ubuntu version.
[03:37] <crimsun> Fujitsu: currently Edgy's has a Ubuntu delta. You need to retain that if you're creating an updated Ubuntu source package.
[03:37] <crimsun> Fujitsu: if you want, simply drop in the relevant Ubuntu entries from debian/changelog
[03:37] <Fujitsu> crimsun, that delta is now nullified by Debian changes.
[03:37] <crimsun> gnomebaker | 0.5.1-0ubuntu1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com edgy/universe Sources
[03:38] <crimsun> we have a delta; you need to keep it.
[03:38] <crimsun> if it were 0.5.1-5 in Edgy, you wouldn't have to keep the changelog history
[03:38] <Fujitsu> Even though Debian has absorbed all of those changes?
[03:38] <crimsun> yes
[03:39] <Fujitsu> Why!?
[03:39] <crimsun> you /must/ maintain what Ubuntu changelog entries exist in the current source package if you go from -XubuntuFOO to -0ubuntu1
[03:40] <crimsun> you must do it because no sync will have occurred between when 0.5.1-0ubuntu1 and 0.6.0-0ubuntu1 were uploaded
[03:40] <Fujitsu> OK, I've added the changelog entries in... Rebuilding at the moment.
[03:41] <Fujitsu> I was presuming it would be possible/ideal to manually sync and get a new upstream version in in the same upload... I was obviously incorrect.
[03:42] <crimsun> that's not a sync in the sense we use
[03:42] <crimsun> a sync drops all Ubuntu changes once it hits the archive
[03:42] <Fujitsu> Well, I mean dropping all Ubuntu changes before uploading.
[03:42] <crimsun> you're not syncing because you're going from 0.5.1-0ubuntu1 -> 0.6.0-0ubuntu1
[03:42] <Fujitsu> But I know we can't do that now.
[03:43] <Fujitsu> I was attempting to achieve the same effect that would have been had if 0.5.1-5 had been synced, and a 0.6.0-0ubuntu1 based on that.
[03:44] <Fujitsu> Thus minimising the Ubuntu delta.
[03:45] <Fujitsu> Hi LaserJock.
[03:45] <LaserJock> hi Fujitsu
[03:45] <crimsun> yes, that's perfectly acceptable, but you must retain the Ubuntu changelog history since a current Ubuntu delta exists
[03:46] <Fujitsu> OK, I've uploaded a version with the changelog now.
[03:46] <Fujitsu> Thankyou for pointing that out :)
[03:46] <crimsun> np.
[03:46] <crimsun> thanks for working on 0.6.0
[03:47] <Fujitsu> No problem.
[03:47] <Fujitsu> Good riddance to Gstreamer 0.8!
[03:47] <Fujitsu> And this has nice libnotify support as well.
[03:47] <bddebian> heh
[03:49] <Fujitsu> I think the original Debian 11_add_raw_extension_support.dpatch had its logic around the wrong way...
[03:50] <Fujitsu> ... godwiki?
[03:50] <imbrandon> hehehe
[03:50] <Fujitsu> That page on the wiki?
[03:50] <bddebian> Yeah
[03:50] <Fujitsu> An interesting page, that is :P
[03:50] <Fujitsu> And I agree with it fully! Mr. God sir.
[03:51] <bddebian> I guess :-(
[03:51] <imbrandon> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BddebianIsAGod
[03:51] <LaserJock> thanks imbrandon
[03:51] <Fujitsu> Yes, I know that one :PHm.
[03:51] <Fujitsu> Oops.
[03:52] <Fujitsu> Debian's patch 11 does in fact have it's logic around the wrong way, and completely screws up the checking.
[03:52] <Fujitsu> I thought my working one was rather different.
[03:52] <Fujitsu> Thanks, crimsun :)
[03:52] <crimsun> np
[03:53] <Fujitsu> That closes a few bugs, I believe.
[03:55] <crimsun> collect your hobbsee hugs.
[03:56] <LaserJock> where is Hobbsee?
[03:56] <Fujitsu> Or Hobbsee proddings with long pointy DOOM sticks.
[03:56] <bddebian> heh
[03:57] <Toadstool> :D
[04:03] <LaserJock> is the universe list on merges.ubuntu.com right?
[04:03] <bddebian> I think so :-(
[04:03] <LaserJock> you gotta be kidding me
[04:04] <crimsun> nope.
[04:04] <crimsun> tbh, we're doing a lot better than we were last release
[04:04] <crimsun> in no small part thanks to our esteemed Aussies
[04:04] <Toadstool> grah! I must have accidently deleted my mldonkey debdiff for dapper-proposed... silly me :(
[04:05] <Fujitsu> Yeah, Hobbsee been doing a lot :)
[04:05] <LaserJock> I thought we got them all in dapper?
[04:05] <crimsun> not nearly
[04:05] <Fujitsu> LaserJock, a number of them are just rebuilds (I've filed sync requests for a number of them, but not all of them), and a few are fake syncs.
[04:06] <crimsun> oh wait, maybe bddebian did 'em for 6.06
[04:06] <crimsun> I kinda slept through universe stuff for 6.06 thanks to alsa
[04:06] <LaserJock> I know we had a big push at UVF
[04:06] <Fujitsu> crimsun, ALSA... What fun.
[04:06] <Fujitsu> Can MoM have a comments field added at some point?
[04:06] <LaserJock> anyway
[04:07] <LaserJock> I don't understand the new and updated lists
[04:07] <bddebian> What'd I do now?
[04:07] <Fujitsu> So notes like `fake sync', or `needs new stuff in main', or whatever can be added, so I don't keep trying to do things that have already been confirmed to not be possible for Edgy.
[04:07] <Fujitsu> LaserJock, Updated is stuff that's already got an edgy entry in the changelog.
[04:07] <LaserJock> and what are the manual list?
[04:08] <Fujitsu> I'm not sure about those, but maybe stuff that MoM choked on.
[04:08] <Fujitsu> Ah.
[04:08] <Fujitsu> I see.
[04:08] <bddebian> tarball issues most of them
[04:08] <bddebian> md5sums don't match
[04:09] <Fujitsu> Looks like new packages that have just appeared in Debian, but been in Ubuntu a while, most of them...
[04:09] <imbrandon> mostly stuff that was in ubuntu first then got put into debian later diffrently
[04:09] <bddebian> Usually just pull the Debian package but use the Ubuntu orig.tar.gz
[04:09] <bddebian> imbrandon: Aye
[04:09] <Fujitsu> imbrandon, exactly.
[04:09] <crimsun> we totally need to divide+wiki like the old days
[04:09] <Fujitsu> I really think that MoM needs a comment field for each row.
[04:09] <Fujitsu> crimsun, pardon?
[04:09] <crimsun> (well, except without the wiki)
[04:10] <crimsun> each of us took an alphabetical chunk and had at it, listing WIPs on a wiki page. The wiki stuff doesn't make sense now, but could probably push through a good portion in 5 days
[04:11] <Fujitsu> If everybody takes a chunk, it'll work better, yes.
[04:11] <LaserJock> well, I really liked the dapper system we had with the revu page
[04:11] <Fujitsu> There are 200 to go...
[04:11] <bddebian> Gads you folks are going to suck me back in damnit
[04:12] <LaserJock> :-)
[04:12] <LaserJock> I hope so
[04:12] <crimsun> ok, I'll lock lib* source packages.
[04:12] <Fujitsu> So, are we going to try to get them all done?
[04:12] <Fujitsu> I'll take that as a yes :P
[04:13] <crimsun> c'mon barry, you loved the transitions
[04:13] <Fujitsu> C++ ABI transitions?
[04:13] <crimsun> be a shining hero again!
[04:13] <crimsun> and X.Org and GL{u} and desktop and ...
[04:13] <Fujitsu> Oh, those.
[04:14] <crimsun> I lost count a year or so ago
[04:14] <bddebian> Hero? Heh, I'm a nobody
[04:14] <Fujitsu> Yes, they're lovely.
[04:14] <Fujitsu> Bad bddebian!
[04:15] <bddebian> Are some of them even worth it?  Things like foo-1.0-1ubuntu1 vs foo-1.0-1.1 ?
[04:15] <bddebian> I wanted to do azureus but doko has some concerns/thoughts and I can't get a hold of him
[04:15] <crimsun> bddebian: I'd say yep, even if they end up as sync requests
[04:15] <bddebian> libnss wasn't building last I checked
[04:15] <Fujitsu> bddebian, I've tried to prioritise new upstream versions, but I still do the little ones.
[04:15] <Fujitsu> bddebian, this is exactly why we need a comments field.
[04:16] <bddebian> Fujitsu: I Know, I agree
[04:16] <Fujitsu> And an `Oy! I'm doing this, hands off.' link.
[04:16] <imbrandon> lol
[04:18] <LaserJock> in dapper we filed a bug to lock in which one were working on
[04:18] <bddebian> I don't have an Edgy machine handy to test installs with though :-(
[04:18] <LaserJock> and a python webpage that listed all the merges to do and who was doing what
[04:18] <Fujitsu> That would be nice.
[04:20] <crimsun> you might to coordinate w/ Gauvain on those
[04:20] <Fujitsu> Yes, they look a little strange.
[04:22] <LaserJock> hmm, what is the best way to grab a sid source package?
[04:22] <bddebian> I usually use packages.qa.debian.org and wget :-)
[04:22] <LaserJock> ugg ;-)
[04:22] <Toadstool> bddebian: dget is more efficient :p
[04:22] <Fujitsu> LaserJock, I use my magical get-debian.py, which will even grab the relevant changelog entries if you give it the previous version.
[04:23] <Toadstool> otherwise I must have some sid chroot hidden on my harddrive and I use dchroot -d -c sid apt-get source :p
[04:24] <LaserJock> Toadstool: dget or debget?
[04:24] <Toadstool> dget
[04:25] <Toadstool> which in devscripts iirc
[04:25] <Toadstool> +is
[04:25] <imbrandon> dget rocks
[04:25] <imbrandon> i use it ALL the time
[04:26] <Toadstool> :)
[04:26] <crimsun> yep, devscripts rocks
[04:26] <crimsun> devscripts+patchutils == win
[04:26] <imbrandon> ;)
[04:26] <Toadstool> yay!
[04:27] <LaserJock> :(
[04:27] <LaserJock> I can't find it
[04:28] <Toadstool> hmm?
[04:29] <LaserJock> dget
[04:29] <Fujitsu> In devscripts.
[04:29] <LaserJock> I know that
[04:29] <LaserJock> it's not in there
[04:29] <Fujitsu> fujitsu@irranat:~/MOTUing/gnomebaker$ dpkg -S bin/dget
[04:29] <Fujitsu> devscripts: /usr/bin/dget
[04:30] <LaserJock> I did a dpkg -c on my devscripts .deb and it's not there
[04:31] <Fujitsu> What version of devscripts do you have?
[04:31] <crimsun> $ sha1sum /usr/bin/dget
[04:31] <crimsun> 37798a21cb3811392b29f449533a677003ed9e3f  /usr/bin/dget
[04:31] <LaserJock> 2.9.10
[04:31] <imbrandon> i thought it was in with dput
[04:31] <Toadstool> LaserJock: you should dist-upgrade your warty :p
[04:31] <Fujitsu> I've got 2.9.20
[04:31] <LaserJock> I'm running dapper
[04:31] <Fujitsu> I'd assume it'd be in Dapper as well...
[04:31] <Toadstool> yep
[04:32] <imbrandon> i thought it was in with dput
[04:32] <LaserJock> it's not there either
[04:32] <crimsun> it's not
[04:32] <imbrandon> hrm
[04:32] <crimsun> dget was added in 2.9.12
[04:32] <Fujitsu> Fantastic.
[04:32] <imbrandon> ahh
[04:33] <LaserJock> hmm
[04:33] <LaserJock> we that stinks, somebody backport it asap ;-)
[04:33] <imbrandon> dget http://url.to/some/package.dsc
[04:33] <Fujitsu> Silly old stable versions of Ubuntu.
[04:34] <Fujitsu> It's being really slow.
[04:39] <LaserJock> ok, so I'm creating a dapper pbuilder so I can backport devscripts so I can dget so I can grab sid source packages so I can upload Fujitsu's merges ;-)
[04:40] <Fujitsu> Oh dear. :P
[04:41] <imbrandon> lol
[04:42] <imbrandon> LaserJock: hold on
[04:42] <imbrandon> Fujitsu: do me a favor
[04:42] <Fujitsu> OK...
[04:42] <imbrandon> Fujitsu: download the source for devscripts and re-upload them to revu
[04:42] <imbrandon> please
[04:43] <Fujitsu> Erm... Why?
[04:43] <imbrandon> heh you'll see
[04:43] <imbrandon> but i'm on osx atm and cant
[04:43] <imbrandon> upload to revu
[04:43] <Fujitsu> OK, if you say so..
[04:43] <Fujitsu> Why REVU?
[04:44] <crimsun> he wants the pbuilder functionality
[04:44] <LaserJock> cause there is a dapper pbuilder there
[04:44] <imbrandon> exactly
[04:44] <Fujitsu> Haha.
[04:45] <bddebian> serpento done
[04:45] <Fujitsu> Currently filing sync request for dmraid...
[04:45] <imbrandon> Fujitsu: ....
[04:45] <Fujitsu> ?
[04:46] <imbrandon> you gonna upload ?
[04:46] <imbrandon> heh
[04:46] <Fujitsu> If you want me to, I shall...
[04:46] <LaserJock> I think I'll do it faster
[04:46] <Fujitsu> LaserJock, probably :P
[04:46] <LaserJock> my pbuilder is almost built
[04:46] <LaserJock> I'm on my "fast" machine at home
[04:47] <LaserJock> a whole 1800+ OCed to 2100+ :-)
[04:47] <Fujitsu> Fantastic.
[04:47] <imbrandon> hehe
[04:48] <bddebian> Damn, libnss-ldap has 5 release critical bugs :-(
[04:48] <LaserJock> building
[04:48] <Fujitsu> Yay :)
[04:49] <LaserJock> I need to figure out how to log into a pbuilder and do bindmounts
[04:49] <LaserJock> then I'd never need a chroot really
[04:50] <bddebian> You folks are killing my Hurd hacking
[04:50] <imbrandon> heh
[04:50] <LaserJock> excellent
[04:50] <Fujitsu> Hurd!
[04:51] <Fujitsu> Ubuntu GNU/Hurd. I like it.
[04:51] <imbrandon> bddebian: can you help me install flashplayer-nonfree on hurd ?!?
[04:51] <bddebian> heh
[04:53] <bddebian> Sync request for yum filed
[04:54] <Fujitsu> Urgh.
[04:54] <Fujitsu> Yuck.
[04:54] <crimsun> I've got this reflex action where I navigate to all sync requests. Thanks, Fujitsu. :P
[04:54] <Fujitsu> Hahah.
[04:54] <Toadstool> :)
[04:55] <Fujitsu> You have done about 70 of mine, I think :P
[04:56] <crimsun> I usually roll into work and have a half-dozen or so to process
[04:56] <imbrandon> you know if i had the money i would buy the IP to mp3 and gpl it
[04:56] <bddebian> Hmm, to fix scannerrlog properly or not..
[04:57] <crimsun> I think I uploaded that one already
[04:57] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: and why aren't we using a numpy that isn't in Debian yet?
[04:57] <Fujitsu> LaserJock, why are we, you mean? It's needed for Python 2.5 to not explode.
[04:57] <crimsun> it really just needs to be a python policy-compliant change
[04:58] <LaserJock> oh, so numpy will work on pyton 2.5 if we have the rc?
[04:58] <Fujitsu> Yes.
[04:58] <Fujitsu> Rather than beta 5.
[04:59] <bddebian> crimsun: Aye.  It has fix committed on LP
[04:59] <Fujitsu> matplotlib won't work in Python 2.5 at all, but numpy and scipy will with the new numpy.
[04:59] <LaserJock> ok, well I guess it's going to NEW no matter what, we might as well beat Debian to it ;-)
[04:59] <Fujitsu> :)
[05:00] <LaserJock> I guess we'll just want another MOTU *cough*bddebian or crimsun*cough* to ok so we have 2 acks
[05:00] <bddebian> LaserJock: On?
[05:00] <crimsun> url?
[05:00] <crimsun> like the might mouse?
[05:01] <LaserJock> numpy on http://people.ubuntu.com.au/~fujitsu/scipy_etc/
[05:01] <crimsun> you don't need ACKs on those
[05:01] <Fujitsu> Yes, two ACKs are just for new packages, aren't they?
[05:01] <crimsun> if they're already in the archive, and you're a MOTU, you can have at 'em
[05:01] <crimsun> Fujitsu: right
[05:02] <Fujitsu> New source packages, even.
[05:02] <crimsun> ->dinner
[05:03] <LaserJock> but numpy is NEW isn't it?
[05:03] <Fujitsu> python-numpy isn't.
[05:04] <LaserJock> oh, my bad
[05:04] <LaserJock> I could have sworn we didn't have it yet
[05:04] <imbrandon> python-numpy - Numerical Python adds a fast array facility to the Python language
[05:04] <imbrandon> python-numpy-dev - Numerical Python adds a fast array facility to the Python language
[05:04] <imbrandon> python-numpy-doc - Numpy documentation
[05:04] <LaserJock> I see it on LP now
[05:04] <imbrandon> python-numpy-ext - Numerical Python adds a fast array facility to the Python language
[05:04] <Fujitsu> We do, or scipy wouldn't have worked :P
[05:04] <imbrandon> ;)
[05:04] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: well, I thought we were still using the old scipy
[05:05] <LaserJock> that deped on scipy-core
[05:05] <LaserJock> anyway...
[05:05] <Fujitsu> Maybe...
[05:05] <imbrandon> man you sci guys have funny names for the programs, sounds like some of the 7 darwf names
[05:05] <Fujitsu> But it's not NEW.
[05:05] <Fujitsu> numpy and scipy?
[05:05] <imbrandon> heh yea
[05:06] <Fujitsu> My father is about to move from Tcl to Python, using numpy :)
[05:06] <imbrandon> ;)
[05:07] <LaserJock> imbrandon: scientific python and numerical python ;-)
[05:07] <imbrandon> ;)
[05:07] <LaserJock> I like scipy and numpy better
[05:07] <Fujitsu> Sigh-pie!
[05:07] <Toadstool> Alright, "my" updated merges -> done
[05:08] <imbrandon> gnight all
[05:08] <Fujitsu> I've got three listed, though two were fake syncs so don't actually need attacking.
[05:08] <Fujitsu> 'night, imbrandon.
[05:08] <Toadstool> g'night imbrandon
[05:08] <Fujitsu> Heya, Hobbsee.
[05:08] <Toadstool> haha, imbrandon knew Hobbsee was coming :)
[05:09] <Toadstool> hey Hobbsee
[05:10] <bddebian> Heya Hobbsee
[05:10] <Hobbsee> hey Fujitsu
[05:10] <Hobbsee> hi Toadstool :)
[05:10] <Hobbsee> oh, jabber
[05:10] <Hobbsee> hi bddebian
[05:11] <Toadstool> Hobbsee: never mind, this was supposed to be a joke... imbrandon went to bed just before you arrived :p
[05:11] <Hobbsee> Toadstool: ahh :P
[05:11] <Fujitsu> Like, 21 seconds before.
[05:11] <Toadstool> *nevermind even
[05:12] <Toadstool> hmm... /me not sure...
[05:12] <Hobbsee> never mind, i believe
[05:13] <Hobbsee> ie, two words
[05:13] <Toadstool> ok :)
[05:15] <LaserJock> oh drat, debian's got a newer scipy
[05:15] <Fujitsu> As of when?
[05:16] <Fujitsu> Hm...
[05:16] <Fujitsu> Why drat?
[05:16] <Fujitsu> Shall I merge that one now?
[05:17] <LaserJock> nah, I do it
[05:17] <LaserJock> I should do *something* around here
[05:18] <Fujitsu> :P
[05:19] <Fujitsu> This will take me up to a whole two new upstream versions. What a large number :P
[05:27] <Fujitsu> What a long reboot...
[05:34] <LaserJock> how odd
[05:35] <LaserJock> the version of scipy we have in edgy
[05:35] <LaserJock> isn't in the Debian changelog
[05:36] <bddebian> masqmail uploaded
[05:41] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: ping
[05:43] <LaserJock> crimsun: what happens if the md5sum of .orig.tar.gz files don't match?
[05:43] <bddebian> LaserJock: It probably matches the Ubuntu version
[05:44] <bddebian> Pull debian then use our orig.tar.gz
[05:44] <LaserJock> well, I know that our .orig.tar.gz is wrong
[05:45] <LaserJock> would it have to go through NEW again?
[05:46] <bddebian> You know our orig.tar.gz is wrong?
[05:46] <LaserJock> yeah
[05:46] <bddebian> How?
[05:46] <LaserJock> I'm the maintainer
[05:46] <bddebian> Oh, hehe
[05:46] <bddebian> cuetools sync requested...
[05:46] <LaserJock> and I screwed up my Ubuntu package and accidently left a build-stamp in the .orig.tar.gz
[05:46] <bddebian> LaserJock: Is it a new version?
[05:46] <LaserJock> nope
[05:46] <LaserJock> maybe I'll just wait for a new upstream version to get it right
[05:47] <bddebian> Add an epoch ;-P
[05:47] <LaserJock> oh heck no
[05:47] <bddebian> I was kidding :-)
[05:47] <LaserJock> bbiab guys
[05:47] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: how did you build scipy with the numpy you just built?
[05:49] <Fujitsu> Back.
[05:49] <Fujitsu> Laser_away, sudo pbuilder login, copy numpy debs and scipy source in, install numpy, build scipy.
[05:50] <Hobbsee> Laser_away: magic :P
[05:51] <Hobbsee> Laser_away: someone needs to put some stuff about pbuilder login in that guide
[05:51] <Fujitsu> They do, yes.
[05:51] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: volunteering :P
[05:56] <Toadstool> ls ~/debuntu/results/
[05:56] <Toadstool> uhuh
[06:17] <Fujitsu> Hi again, LaserJock.
[06:17] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: ok, so do you do bindmounts in the pbuilder?
[06:17] <Fujitsu> No.
[06:18] <LaserJock> how do you copy the debs in?
[06:18] <Fujitsu> I just copy them straight into the chroot's directory.
[06:18] <LaserJock> hmm, ok
[06:18] <LaserJock> and then how do you build once you are in there?
[06:18] <Fujitsu> Much easier.
[06:19] <Fujitsu> I grab the build-depends (install pbuilder package and run /usr/lib/pbuilder/pbuilder-satisfydepends if there are a lot, it handles build-deps for you), then just debuild.
[06:19] <LaserJock> ok
[06:20] <Fujitsu> (after installing the numpy debs, of course)
[06:20] <bddebian> wmtop uploaded
[06:20] <Fujitsu> bddebian, yay :)
[06:21] <Fujitsu> MoM says there's an unmergable conflict in a file in rtfm... Those two files are identical.
[06:22] <Fujitsu> And rtfm's diff is odd.. The only change is bumping debhelper and compat versions.
[06:24] <StevenK> Fujitsu: Bugger that then.
[06:24] <Fujitsu> Drop it?
[06:24] <StevenK> Fujitsu: I think so.
[06:24] <Fujitsu> As do I.
[06:24] <StevenK> Fujitsu: It seems pointless, to be honest.
[06:25] <StevenK> Fujitsu: Request a sync, tell me the bug number and I'll ACK it.
[06:25] <StevenK> Fujitsu: Or I can just do it?
[06:25] <Fujitsu> I'll file it..
[06:25] <StevenK> Kay.
[06:26] <StevenK> At least Malone is quicker than debbugs.
[06:26] <Fujitsu> ?
[06:27] <StevenK> Fujitsu: The Debian BTS is slower at assigning numbers and such, and uploads to Debian also take a day to hit mirrors - it seems quicker with Ubuntu.
[06:27] <Fujitsu> Ahah.
[06:27] <Fujitsu> Yay, this sync will close the only open bug about rtfm.
[06:28] <StevenK> Heh
[06:32] <Fujitsu> :O
[06:32] <Fujitsu> Impossible, Hobbsee has no cloak.
[06:32] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i'm ssh'd into StevenK's machine - i dont have passwords on there
[06:33] <Fujitsu> Aha... But with a username of user?
[06:34] <Fujitsu> StevenK, bug #61976
[06:34] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 61976 in rtfm "Please sync rtfm 2.0.3-1.1 (universe) from Debian Sid (main)" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61976
[06:35] <LaserJock> wow, this is fun
[06:35] <Fujitsu> ?
[06:35] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: yes
[06:35] <Hobbsee> and StevenK's not around, i suspect
[06:35] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: I just started build scipy
[06:36] <crimsun> he spoke 9 minutes ago?
[06:36] <Fujitsu> LaserJock, aha.
[06:36] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee, he was around 4 minutes before you arrived.
[06:36] <Hobbsee> awww...
[06:36] <StevenK> I was putting the shopping away.
[06:37] <Hobbsee> he is here :P
[06:37] <Fujitsu> No! You're not allowed to do real-life stuff! You're a DD, there's no such thing as real-life.
[06:37] <Hobbsee> haha
[06:37] <StevenK> Fujitsu: Hah
[07:07] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: heh, this is fun
[07:07] <Fujitsu> What? scipy and co.?
[07:08] <LaserJock> well, the pbuilder login stuff in particular
[07:08] <LaserJock> I haven't had a need to use it
[07:08] <LaserJock> although I knew you could do it
[07:08] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: please dont tell me how many merges you've done when not actually running the system
[07:08] <Fujitsu> Aha.
[07:09] <tuxmaniac> LaserJock> Sstill around?
[07:09] <LaserJock> yeah
[07:09] <tuxmaniac> LaserJock> How are you man
[07:09] <Fujitsu> This was my first need for it, I just worked out how to do it as I went along :)
[07:09] <tuxmaniac> Long time no see
[07:09] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: hm?
[07:09] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: how do you test if your merges are installable?
[07:09] <LaserJock> I install them :-)
[07:09] <Toadstool> Hobbsee: puiparts
[07:09] <Toadstool> :p
[07:10] <Fujitsu> Most people don't, Hobbsee.
[07:10] <LaserJock> puiparts?
[07:10] <LaserJock> it's a cool tool
[07:10] <LaserJock> I'd like to include it in the packaging guide if I get the time
[07:10] <Toadstool> piuparts even
[07:11] <Fujitsu> What is it?
[07:11] <LaserJock> it's like pbuilder for installs
[07:11] <Toadstool> yep
[07:11] <Fujitsu> Ah,
[07:11] <Fujitsu> There.
[07:11] <Toadstool> checks installation, upgrade paths etc
[07:11] <Fujitsu> I couldn't find a puiparts :P
[07:11] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: you do the install in a pbuilder?
[07:12] <Hobbsee_> LaserJock: yes
[07:12] <Hobbsee_> hey Kyral
[07:14] <Fujitsu> Ooh, a remote Hobbsee... Who would have thought!
[07:16] <Toadstool> hmm, got to go.. see you
[07:16] <Hobbsee> bye Toadstool
[07:16] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: my X is broken
[07:16] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: so i was connecting remotely while playing with ti
[07:16] <Fujitsu> Aha.
[07:17] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee, I am in -devel, you know :P
[07:17] <Hobbsee> point
[07:17] <Fujitsu> LaserJock, nothing's exploded yet?
[07:21] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: well, everything built
[07:21] <LaserJock> I'm going to unpack a fresh pbuilder and install them all
[07:24] <bddebian> OK, tulip sync requested.  Now it's bed time.  Gnight folks
[07:25] <LaserJock> cya bddebian
[07:25] <bddebian> Gnight LaserJock
[07:26] <Fujitsu> 'night.
[07:33] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: uploading :-)
[07:44] <LaserJock> nick Laser_away
[07:55] <joejaxx> Hobbsee: :)
[07:55] <joejaxx> what does this part mean?
[07:55] <Hobbsee> :)
[07:55] <joejaxx> the comment part
[07:55] <joejaxx> You need a user ID to identify your key; the software constructs the user ID
[07:55] <joejaxx> from the Real Name, Comment and Email Address in this form
[07:55] <Hobbsee> so you could include your irc name, or just leave it blank
[07:55] <joejaxx> ok
[07:57] <joejaxx> so
[07:57] <joejaxx> Comment: joejaxx
[07:57] <joejaxx> ?
[07:57] <Hobbsee> if you want
[07:57] <joejaxx> ok
[07:57] <Hobbsee> it doesnt really matter
[08:04] <joejaxx> wow now i have to find someone near me :\
[08:05] <joejaxx> Hobbsee: lol
[08:06] <joejaxx> Hobbsee: so now upload that key to the ubuntu keyserver?
[08:09] <Hobbsee> yes
[08:09] <joejaxx> ok i uploaded it
[08:09] <joejaxx> :)
[08:10] <joejaxx> so do i have to wait for someone to sign my key before i can sign this package?
[08:24] <joejaxx> Hobbsee: gpg: skipped "Joseph Jackson IV <jjacksoniv@fluxbuntu.org>": secret key not available
[08:24] <joejaxx> gpg: [stdin] : clearsign failed: secret key not available
[08:24] <joejaxx> :(
[08:36] <Hobbsee> joejaxx: is the email address you used in debian/changelog the same as the one that's on your key?
[08:37] <joejaxx> yes
[08:38] <Hobbsee> how are you building the package?
[08:38] <Hobbsee> add a -kyourkeyid to the end of the command you're using to build
[08:39] <joejaxx> no space between -kASDASDASSDAD
[08:39] <joejaxx> Hobbsee: dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot
[08:39] <Hobbsee> yep
[08:44] <Lathiat> grr to sudo having a cry when you change your time
[08:45] <Hobbsee> hehe, yeah
[08:47] <joejaxx> Hobbsee: when i run lintian
[08:47] <joejaxx> Hobbsee: it gives me warning about dh_make templates
[08:47] <joejaxx> :P
[08:48] <Hobbsee> you might want to fix that then :P
[08:49] <joejaxx> Hobbsee: this is my first non metapackage package
[08:50] <Hobbsee> oh, that means you've got a whole lot of *.ex and *.EX files in debian/?
[08:50] <joejaxx> Hobbsee: yes there are a whole bunch of those
[08:50] <Hobbsee> joejaxx: get rid of them - taht's what the error is referring to :)
[08:51] <joejaxx> Hobbsee: just delete them all? lol
[08:51] <Hobbsee> joejaxx: sure, have a look inside them
[08:51] <Hobbsee> they're just example files
[08:51] <Hobbsee> you're examining the packaging guide?
[08:51] <Hobbsee> also run linda thru your package
[08:52] <joejaxx> Hobbsee: yes i am going through it
[08:52] <Hobbsee> cool :)
[08:53] <joejaxx> W: fluxbox: binary-without-manpage fluxbox-generate_menu
[08:53] <joejaxx> :\
[08:53] <Hobbsee> ah yes, i hate that one
[08:53] <Hobbsee> there is a manpage example file
[08:54] <Hobbsee> adapt it :P
[08:54] <joejaxx> adapt?
[08:55] <joejaxx> Hobbsee: what do you mean?
[08:55] <Hobbsee> change/modify it
[08:55] <joejaxx> i did rm *.ex and rm *.EX in that directory lol
[08:56] <StevenK> I think some start with ex.
[08:56] <joejaxx> building the package once again :)
[08:56] <joejaxx> this is exciting
[08:57] <AnAnt_> ping Mithrandir
[08:57] <joejaxx> Hobbsee: what should i do aboutgetting my gpg key signed
[08:57] <joejaxx> i do not know anyone from my area to get it signed
[08:57] <AnAnt_> what is Malone ?
[08:57] <Hobbsee> joejaxx: you dont need it signed until you go for MOTU
[08:57] <Hobbsee> AnAnt_: the bug tracker
[08:57] <Hobbsee> AnAnt_: in launchpad
[08:58] <joejaxx> Hobbsee: what about signing the CoC?
[08:58] <Hobbsee> joejaxx: s/until/if/
[08:58] <Hobbsee> joejaxx: that's different.  you probably do want to do that
[08:58] <AnAnt_> oh
[08:58] <joejaxx> oh ok
[09:07] <joejaxx> Hobbsee: it is not letting me import mykey on launchpad :(
[09:07] <joejaxx> Hobbsee: and my key is on the keyserver
[09:07] <AnAnt> can anyone explain what linux32 does ?
[09:08] <pygi> joejaxx: wait like half an hour if you just synced it with keyserver
[09:08] <Hobbsee> pass?
[09:08] <StevenK> AnAnt: On sparc? Or what?
[09:08] <AnAnt> StevenK: on amd64
[09:09] <StevenK> I suspect that's an Edgy-ism
[09:09] <AnAnt> meaning what ?
[09:09] <Hobbsee> 32bit and 64bit systems?
[09:09] <Hobbsee> StevenK: you should upgrade your laptop
[09:10] <StevenK> It doesn't exist on my Dapper amd64
[09:10] <StevenK> Hobbsee: Later, hush. :-)
[09:10] <Hobbsee> StevenK: later is now :)
[09:10] <Hobbsee> later has come :)
[09:10] <Hobbsee> it's not that broken
[09:10] <StevenK> Hobbsee: Assignment....
[09:10] <Hobbsee> bah
[09:10] <StevenK> Heh
[09:11] <StevenK> AnAnt: I suspect it runs stuff linked against 32-bits libs and such like.
[09:11] <StevenK> {Multi,Bi}-arch stuff
[09:19] <joejaxx> pygi: i has been more than 30 minutes
[09:22] <joejaxx> Hobbsee: :(
[09:24] <joejaxx> what should i do?
[09:46] <joejaxx> Hobbsee: W: fluxbox: binary-without-manpage fluxbox-generate_menu
[09:46] <joejaxx> W: fluxbox: unknown-section main
[09:46] <joejaxx> :)
[09:47] <Hobbsee> probably should be X11
[09:47] <Hobbsee> you're packagign fluxbox?
[09:49] <joejaxx> yes
[09:49] <joejaxx> i wonder what to do about the man page
[09:49] <joejaxx> i do not know where it is located
[09:50] <Fujitsu> Fluxbox is already packaged... Is it a new version or something?
[09:50] <Hobbsee> i'm guessing you'd need to write one?
[09:50] <joejaxx> Fujitsu: 1.0rc2
[09:50] <joejaxx> freeflying: it is for my distro
[09:50] <Fujitsu> joejaxx, would it not be easier to just update the current package?
[09:50] <joejaxx> Fujitsu: *
[09:50] <joejaxx> Fujitsu: i do not know how to do that
[09:51] <Hobbsee> it would, yes
[09:51] <Fujitsu> Like, it took me less than an hour to update to gnomebaker 0.6.0, and that was with some pretty major changes.
[09:52] <freeflying> joejaxx: what?
[09:52] <Hobbsee> freeflying: i'd guess at bad tab completion
[09:53] <freeflying> Hobbsee: :)
[09:53] <joejaxx> freeflying: sorry about that
[09:53] <freeflying> joejaxx: :)
[09:53] <joejaxx> Fujitsu: i do not know how to update packages only build them
[09:54] <joejaxx> :\
[09:54] <joejaxx> and i also messed up my gpg key
[09:54] <Fujitsu> joejaxx, if you grab the old package, you can run `uupdate newversion.tar.gz', and it'll attempt to update the package.
[09:54] <joejaxx> it was made 605 seconds in the future
[09:55] <joejaxx> Fujitsu: oh ok
[09:55] <joejaxx> 6805*
[09:55] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: unless it dies.
[09:55] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee, true, but that's not overly common.
[09:55] <Hobbsee> in my experience it is, but i'll leave that to a lack of experience
[09:56] <Hobbsee> like, trying it for about 1 package, and seeing it dying.
[09:56] <Fujitsu> Like, my gnomebaker thing last night had one or two conflicts, and I needed to drop a few patches from debian/patches.
[09:57] <Fujitsu> Nothing too bad.
[10:00] <joejaxx> Fujitsu: where do i place this man page? and what to call it?
[10:00] <Fujitsu> joejaxx, I don't do manpages :P
[10:00] <joejaxx> Fujitsu: oh ok
[10:00] <joejaxx> hmm
[10:01] <joejaxx> oh goodue $AM GMT-5
[10:01] <joejaxx> 4AM
[10:01] <joejaxx> goodie*
[10:04] <joejaxx> i have officially been up for 5 days:(
[12:00] <azeem> Q-FUNK: what did you mean with mjray being the tip of the iceberg?
[12:05] <StevenK> azeem: Maybe that Debian is full of sanctamonius little &^^%(*'s like him?
[12:06] <StevenK> Present company and Ubuntu people excluded, of course. :-)
[12:06] <Fujitsu> :P
[12:17] <marcin_ant> hi guys
[12:17] <ivoks> hi
[12:17] <pygi> hey ivoks
[12:17] <marcin_ant> I would like to ask about eclipse 3.2 on ubuntu
[12:17] <ivoks> pygi: hi
[12:17] <marcin_ant> are there any plans to provide this package soon?
[12:17] <pygi> ivoks: I think Keybuk wanted to talk to you about wrong packages naming
[12:18] <ivoks> pygi: ok
[01:18] <Lathiat> wtf in bon echo theyve hidden the proxy settings right away
[01:18] <tseng> yeah
[01:18] <tseng> no one uses a proxy
[01:20] <geser> could a MOTU please add a second ACK to bug 61955? thanks
[01:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 61955 in Ubuntu "[Sync Request]  sylpheed-claws-gtk2-extra-plugins 2.5.0~rc3-1 from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61955
[01:52] <Fujitsu> Hey \sh
[01:56] <\sh> moins
[03:13] <AnAnt> ping Mithrandir
[03:14] <AnAnt> ping Gloubiboulga
[03:14] <pirast> please please have a look at bug 57360 (it's a debian multimedia sync report) it would be nice to have the new version of dvdrip in edgy
[03:14] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 57360 in video-dvdrip "[debian-multimedia]  Sync dvdrip" [Low,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/57360
[03:15] <pirast> or tell me how to get the debian multimedia packages to multiverse
[03:15] <pirast> :-)
[03:25] <phanatic> good afternoon
[03:25] <lfittl> hi phanatic
[03:25] <phanatic> hey lfittl
[03:25] <lfittl> raphink: cdpr seems to be stuck in the REVU upload queue, could you take a quick look at it?
[03:26] <raphink> sure I can
[03:26] <raphink> I'll have a look at it
[03:26] <lfittl> thanks :)
[03:35] <raphink> lfittl: please upload again, a source package this time ;)
[03:35] <lfittl> raphink: not my upload, but will redirect the message to the person who uploaded it ;)
[03:35] <raphink> ah oki :)
[03:36] <raphink> tell him too use "-S -sa"
[03:36] <lfittl> yep, will do :)
[03:48] <jsmidt> I maintian a few packages for Debian and I am slowly making the transition to wanting to help MOTU.  Right now I am exploring the ins and outs of Ubuntu to so how it functions.  Is there a Ubuntu version of incoming.debian.org so I can track incoming packages?
[03:49] <pygi> jsmidt: everything is on LP
[03:50] <jsmidt> Thanks, I will search launchpad and try to find it.
[03:55] <Hobbsee> jsmidt: they tend to be organised by source.  ie.  https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/debmirror/
[03:55] <Hobbsee> with associate bugs, overview, changelogs, etc
[03:56] <jsmidt> pygi, Hobbsee , thanks that is what I was looking for, an Ubuntu version of incoming.debian.org and pqackages.qa.debian.org.
[03:57] <Hobbsee> :)
[03:57] <imbrandon> jsmidt: also the edgy-changes ML has them as they come in, as they are processed as they come in not once a day also
[03:57] <Hobbsee> jsmidt: there are various other interesting features of launchpad, etc, about how to see the build queues, most of which are linked to the sources
[03:57] <Hobbsee> true
[03:58] <imbrandon> gnight Fujitsu
[03:58] <Hobbsee> night Fujitsu
[03:58] <Fujitsu> See ya, imbrandon, and thanks Hobbsee :)
[04:00] <jsmidt> Lastly,  initially I planned on packaging some of the packages in Debian but not Ubuntu, then uploading them too revu.  Would you reccommend that approach?  I do want to do what you guys currently feel would be most helpful.
[04:01] <imbrandon> well if its currently in debian, all it takes is a testbuild in edgy pbuilder and a sync request ( then acked by a MOTU )
[04:01] <bddebian> Heya gang
[04:02] <imbrandon> heya bddebian
[04:02] <lfittl> hey bddebian
[04:02] <Fujitsu> Hey bddebian.
[04:02] <bddebian> Wow, hi imbrandon, lfittl, Fujitsu
[04:02] <imbrandon> jsmidt: the only time it realy needs to goto revu is if its NEW to ubuntu and NOT in debian OR ...
[04:02] <Fujitsu> Good evening, Mr. God sir.
[04:02] <imbrandon> its in debian but needs changes to work on ubuntu
[04:03] <zakame> hi all
[04:03] <Hobbsee> or you just need someone to upload it :P
[04:03] <imbrandon> Hobbsee: hehe yea
[04:03] <bddebian> Heya zakame
[04:03] <imbrandon> heya zakame
[04:04] <jsmidt> imbrandon, thanks for the heads up.  So should I lay off the packages in Debian?  I was planning to upload them to revu since I don't have Upload privelages to Unviverse.  I will also track down some requested packages not in either distro.
[04:04] <geser> is a MOTU around who could add a second ACK to bug 61955?
[04:04] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 61955 in Ubuntu "[Sync Request]  sylpheed-claws-gtk2-extra-plugins 2.5.0~rc3-1 from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61955
[04:05] <imbrandon> jsmidt: yea the ones not in either distro are fine for revu , as for the ones in debian you can file sync req
[04:05] <bddebian> geser: Sure, give me a sec
[04:05] <imbrandon> jsmidt: honestly its easiest just to find a MOTU or core-dev ( depending on where the packages are ) and use them as a "mentor"
[04:06] <imbrandon> after a few days you'll catch the process, its fairly easy
[04:06] <imbrandon> specialy coming from debian
[04:06] <Fujitsu> It's pretty easy, yes :)
[04:06] <imbrandon> but one thing to note also we are LATE in the release cycle soo something might have to wait
[04:07] <jsmidt> imbrandon, thanks for the advice.  I will find a mentor.  I understand I may be too late for edgy, but hopefully I can be a big help for rdgy+1.
[04:07] <imbrandon> jsmidt: np , feel free to ping me too when i'm arround ;)
[04:08] <bddebian> geser: You don't need any more than crimsun man :-)
[04:08] <imbrandon> i dont have alot of time to 100% mentor someone but i'll be glad to help when i can
[04:08] <imbrandon> jsmidt: ^
[04:09] <geser> bddebian: doesn't new packages need two ACKs?
[04:09] <imbrandon> jsmidt: and as for packages.qa.debian.org we really dont have an quiv but here is a good link to start off https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
[04:09] <imbrandon> most everything else we have in some form or another
[04:10] <bddebian> geser: Not from Debian afaik
[04:10] <imbrandon> geser: not coming from debian
[04:10] <imbrandon> geser: only if its NEW NEW
[04:12] <geser> crimsun told me yesterday new packages need two acks
[04:13] <StevenK> geser: On REVU, yes.
[04:13] <imbrandon> if they are already in debian they arent considered new
[04:13] <imbrandon> and that only applies to REVU
[04:14] <imbrandon> hehe
[04:14] <geser> so I can subscribe ubuntu-archive to the bug?
[04:14] <bddebian> Didn't crimsun do that?
[04:14] <imbrandon> if a MOTU has ack'd it ( only one ) they should have subscribed u-a
[04:15] <geser> no because he thought a second ack was needed
[04:15] <bddebian> geser: Just did it
[04:15] <geser> see bug 61949 for comparison
[04:15] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 61949 in Ubuntu "Please sync treeviewx 0.5.1-1 from Debian Sid (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61949
[04:16] <geser> thanks
[05:30] <bintut> hello all..
[05:31] <bintut> anyone here running sparc32 ubuntu dapper?
[05:32] <bintut> i would like to request for anyone who has an ubuntu dapper running on sparc32 machine to build the ltsp-4.2.x related packages for sparc32 ubuntu dapper
[05:33] <bintut> i have some sun javastation jk thin clients but until now still of no use.  i want to make use of them using ltsp
[05:34] <zul> i dont think there is sparc32 support only sparc64
[05:35] <bintut> zul: i'm just hoping for anyone has an access to sparc32 to please build the LTSP 4.2 for ubuntu dapper sparc32
[05:37] <zul> last i heard spacr32 doesnt even have smp support for 2.6 so i dont think anyone is running sparc32 but good luck
[05:39] <bintut> zul: my sparc32 machines are thin clients.  i have some sun javastation jk (krups) thin clients and i want to make use of them using ltsp-4.2
[05:40] <bddebian> Ack, apt-listbugs has release critical bugs too :-(
[06:47] <bddebian> Hmm, why does gaim-meanwhile want gaim-dev << 1:2 ?
[06:48] <lophyte> I don't think its compatible with gaim 2
[06:48] <bddebian> lame
[06:48] <lophyte> I tried building it but it failed
[06:48] <bddebian> :-)
[06:48] <bddebian> lophyte: So fix it ;-P
[06:48] <lophyte> not sure how :P
[06:49] <ivoks> only thing you need is 'vim' :)
[06:50] <lophyte> vim fixes build errors?
[06:50] <lophyte> :p
[06:50] <Lathiat> bddebian: meanwhile was integrated into gaim2
[06:50] <ivoks> sure
[06:50] <Lathiat> lophyte:
[06:50] <lophyte> ahh
[06:50] <Lathiat> we should probably morgue it
[06:50] <Lathiat> that was on my todo list a while ago but it scaped somewhere
[06:51] <bddebian> Lathiat: Ah, OK, thx
[06:51] <Lathiat> ah, the thing is
[06:51] <Lathiat> its disabled in the gaim build
[06:51] <Lathiat> because libmeanwhile is in universe
[06:51] <Lathiat> but still the current package wont build against gaim2 so
[06:52] <Lathiat> someone may want to look attempoting to push meanwhile to main
[06:52] <Lathiat> gaim (1:2.0.0+beta3.1-1ubuntu1) edgy; urgency=low
[06:52] <Lathiat> is the appropriate changelog that disabled it
[07:03] <bmonty> bddebian: gaim-meanwhile is part of gaim 2.0
[07:03] <Nafallo> bmonty: old news ;-)
[07:03] <bddebian> bmonty: I heard that ;-)
[07:04] <Nafallo> backlog etc... :-)
[07:21] <xopher> How do I build the linux-restricted-modules for a specific kernel version?
[07:23] <Toadstool> hey everybody
[07:27] <bddebian> Heya Toadstool
[07:28] <Toadstool> hey bddebian
[07:39] <fdsd> Hey guys, I am taking apart my initrd file, I have a bunch of startup scripts and folders and I dont know what they are for, could anyone explain?  they are casper, casper-bottom casper-premount init-bottom init-premount init-top local-botttom local-premount local-top nfs-bottom etc..  Any idea?
[07:44] <nixternal> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3142  |  http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3148  |  http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3168
[07:44] <nixternal> ^^ need revu'ing and/or uploading, thanks!
[07:50] <Toadstool> wow
[07:52] <Toadstool> nixternal: in koverartist, what about the rosetta patch Tonio_ suggested?
[08:00] <Toadstool> nixternal: just tested, looks like you only have to copy the patch from klibido
[08:00] <Toadstool> (needs more testing though)
[08:00] <nixternal> roger that..i will work on that tomorrow...time to go be a best man, well at least get ready ;)
[08:00] <nixternal> thanks Toadstool!
[08:01] <Toadstool> no problem
[08:13] <lfittl> hrm, php-doc exists in debian non-free but not in ubuntu multiverse, does anybody know the reason?
[08:14] <lfittl> we seem to have dropped it as soon as it went into non-free
[08:16] <keescook> say, I'm playing with cdbs on a new package, and if I don't explicitly rm the debian/stamp-patch-* files, it won't rebuild.  (only happens on edgy, not dapper...)  is this a known bug?  should I just add a clean:: section for them?
[08:28] <bddebian> Can someone with an edgy machine check for libgnustep-gui-dev for me?
[08:39] <bddebian> Why is gnustep-gui a version behind but doesn't show up on the merges list?
[09:47] <LaserJock> any MOTUs about?
[09:47] <LaserJock> I swear I uploaded python-numpy last night
[09:47] <LaserJock> but I can't find it anywhere
[09:48] <Toadstool> hey LaserJock, did you receive the Accepted mail?
[09:48] <LaserJock> no
[09:48] <LaserJock> nothing
[09:48] <LaserJock> I didn't find it in NEW (it shouldn't be there anyway)
[09:48] <LaserJock> and I don't see it on the pthon-numpy LP page
[09:49] <Toadstool> hmm
[09:49] <Toadstool> maybe you forgot to change unstable to edgy or something like that...
[10:02] <LaserJock> Toadstool: but shouldn't I have gotten a rejected email?
[10:02] <bddebian> rejects fail sometimes
[10:03] <bddebian> Especially for unstable/edgy stuff
[10:05] <LaserJock> doh, that's what it was
[10:05] <LaserJock> but at least it was Fujitsu's fault ;-)
[10:10] <bddebian> Heh
[10:11] <LaserJock> ok, let's try it again
[10:36] <zul> LaserJock: ttps://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edgy-changes/2006-September/006290.html
[10:38] <LaserJock> mhm
[10:38] <LaserJock> now hopefully scipy and matplotlib will get built
[10:55] <keescook> ah, dang.  I was shooting for a 0-byte lintian on REVU.  I didn't realize it wasn't edgy-aware.  :P
[10:56] <LaserJock> heh
[10:56] <keescook> now I'll just sit here anxious awaiting comments!  ;)
[11:20] <bddebian> Who is William Grant?  Is that Fujitsu?
[11:21] <LaserJock> yep
[11:21] <bddebian> OK thx
[11:21] <LaserJock> did he mess something up?
[11:21] <LaserJock> :-)
[11:24] <bddebian> LaserJock: No, no, I was just looking at pcb then I realized he already requested a sync :-)
[11:24] <bddebian> I've been replaced :'-(
[11:24] <Nafallo> kik
[11:24] <Nafallo> lol
[11:24] <Nafallo> like that's ever going to happen :-P
[11:25] <bddebian> Nafallo: True, I guess you can't replace nothingness :-(
[11:26] <xopher> How do I build the linux-restricted-modules for a specific kernel version?
[11:27] <xopher> sorry if Im spamming this question, but Id really want to know ;)
[11:27] <bddebian> Build-depend on the specific kernel version source package?
[11:27] <xopher> Ive tried, doesnt work
[11:27] <xopher> still looks for the newer kernel even Ive set it not to
[11:28] <bddebian> xopher: Are you doing this in a clean envrionment like a pbuilder or chroot?
[11:29] <xopher> pbuilder
[11:29] <bddebian> Hmm, over my head, sorry
[11:33] <hikenboot> hello all---i removed all references to openoffice from ubuntu-meta then recompiled and installled it into a system running ubuntu 6.10 it installed ok...but when I try and remove openoffice it still trys and removes ubuntu-desktop which I was trying to avoid..any ideas?
[11:33] <LaserJock> hikenboot: hi
[11:34] <hikenboot> hi LaserJock
[11:34] <LaserJock> hikenboot: how did you install ubuntu-desktop?
[11:34] <hikenboot> this is getting frustraiting to say the least
[11:34] <hikenboot> using dpkg after compiling it
[11:34] <LaserJock> the first one?
[11:35] <hikenboot> I had a fresh installed system in a vm and tried replacing ubuntu-desktop with one compiled from ubuntu-meta with the references to openoffice taken out figuring this would solve the dependency on openoffice
[11:35] <LaserJock> edgy or dapper?
[11:36] <hikenboot> 6.10
[11:36] <hikenboot> edgy
[11:36] <LaserJock> I'm thinking that perhaps there is some "behind the scenes" stuff going on
[11:37] <LaserJock> is there a reason you want to keep ubuntu-desktop
[11:37] <hikenboot> because it screws up subsiquent package removals and installs
[11:38] <hikenboot> strange thing is I type apt-get install ubuntu-desktop and it still wants to install openoffice
[11:38] <LaserJock> right
[11:39] <hikenboot> somthing else must be referencing openoffice
[11:39] <LaserJock> hikenboot: run dpkg -I on your .deb
[11:40] <LaserJock> and look at the dependecies
[11:40] <hikenboot> ok
[11:46] <crimsun> can anyone reproduce bug 61943?
[11:46] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 61943 in acroread "adobe reader won't start" [Medium,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61943
[11:53] <Kream> I have a launchpad account, yet can't find ubiquity in launchpad. I want to translate ubiquity. How do I do this?
[11:53] <crimsun> translations would be rosetta
[11:53] <ryanakca> can someone please review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3098 , a KDE Iconset (kde-icons-crystal-diamond)
[11:53] <Kream> crimsun:  thanks. i think i'm on rosetta already.
[11:56] <bddebian> Well shit, osgcal FTBFSs
[12:06] <chillywilly> can anyone help? There's some error in the pre install script for lvm2 for amd64
[12:07] <crimsun> ->#-kernel
[12:07] <chillywilly>  #ubuntu-kernel?
[12:07] <crimsun> yep
[12:07] <chillywilly> k
[12:08] <ryanakca> chillywilly: I used to have that error... run update & dist-upgrade to fix it
[12:08] <chillywilly> I did
[12:08] <ryanakca> no clue then :)