[12:10] <AlinuxOS> jordi http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/i24720
[12:11] <jordi> ah, but this is at boot stage
[12:11] <jordi> I don't know then
[12:13] <AlinuxOS> Kamion, jordi http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/i24722
[12:13] <jordi> AlinuxOS: pretty cool
[12:14] <AlinuxOS> unifont is not installed....and iin terminal mode there is still font support...
[12:14] <jordi> so what's the problem with this?
[12:14] <AlinuxOS> so I don't know which one is it
[12:14] <jordi> aha
[12:14] <jordi> so I guess there's some console font that has this stuff
[12:15] <jordi> the fc-list thing I told you won't work, that's for true-type fonts
[12:15] <AlinuxOS> jordi, some years ago som non-georgian person designet that glypps
[12:15] <jordi> and they are bad, I guess :)
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[12:15] <AlinuxOS> that have horrible proportions...I with my friens have designet another one...so I would li to test fonts before and than substitute them.
[12:16] <AlinuxOS> jordi, exactly ;)
[12:16] <jordi> AlinuxOS: aha
[12:16] <AlinuxOS> so I'm little bit confused...
[12:16] <jordi> if the cd is using syslinux, you should be able to try replacing it
[12:16] <jordi> I don't know what's in use there tho
[12:16] <AlinuxOS> Kamion, (as I remeber) some time ago said that for debian-installer we need bitmap fonts...and so unifont georgian coverage...
[12:17] <AlinuxOS> jordi, in terminal mode (non X mode) I see them :)
[12:18] <AlinuxOS> so they are somewhere here :D
[12:18] <AlinuxOS> in my hd..without unifont package installed ;)
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[12:22] <jordi> AlinuxOS: was that in dapper too?
[12:22] <jordi> or is it new in edgy?
[12:23] <AlinuxOS> Edgy
[12:23] <AlinuxOS> not dapper :)
[12:23] <jordi> hrm, I have no edgy cd here
[12:23] <jordi> I wonder how colin builds cds
[12:23] <AlinuxOS> I'm working to make Edgy more Rocky :)
[12:23] <AlinuxOS> ah so you use dapper
[12:26] <jordi> I just upgraded my laptop, didn't use a CD
[12:27] <jordi> hmm, according to my "get good sleep plan" I should be in bed already.
[12:27] <jordi> good night!
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[12:30] <ajmitch> morning
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[01:05] <jono> hey all
[01:05] <ajmitch> hey jono 
[01:05] <jono> anything overtly broken in edgy right now? I am on vacation and would like to still be able to access the Internet :P
[01:05] <jono> hey ajmitch :)
[01:06] <ajmitch> nothing major that I know of, since it's beta freeze time 
[01:06] <zul> broken as in how?
[01:07] <zul> sorry...not really paying attention
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[01:08] <ajmitch> I haven't rebooted yet, but everything seems to be there 
[01:09] <jono> cool
[01:09] <jono> zul, just X b0rkage or kernel issues
[01:10] <zul> ah...just rebooted and havent seen anything on the i386 side
[01:10] <jono> cool
[01:10] <jono> will upgrade :)
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[01:12] <crimsun> jono: pong (sorry for the delay)
[01:12] <jono> crimsun, no worries
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[01:13] <slomo> Fujitsu: thanks for updating soundconverter to a gst0.10 version :)
[01:14] <slomo> crimsun: ping? (same question as always ;) )
[01:14] <Fujitsu> No problem, slomo. That eliminates python-gst in Sid.
[01:14] <Fujitsu> (and thus Ubuntu, I presume)
[01:14] <slomo> Fujitsu: yes :) unfortunately gst0.8 is still alive... and even one of my packages still needs it :(
[01:15] <Fujitsu> Noted, goobox, gstreamer-editor, etc.
[01:16] <Fujitsu> I didn't expect to be maintaining it in Debian, until the previous maintainer orphaned it the second he saw 0.9.1 was using autotools.
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[01:22] <ajmitch> hi mako 
[01:23] <mako> ajmitch: hey there
[01:23] <mako> i got there eventually
[01:27] <slomo> Fujitsu: i would've taken it too ;)
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[01:43] <Fujitsu> slomo, no, mine, gerrof :P
[01:44] <slomo> Fujitsu: ok, something less to worry about =)
[01:44] <ajmitch> posessive, isn't he?
[01:46] <HrdwrBoB> you're possessive.
[01:46] <HrdwrBoB> your possesive even
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[01:50] <Nafallo> hehe
[01:51] <Fujitsu> Yay, netsplit.
[01:54] <Nafallo> small one though :-P
[01:54] <Fujitsu> True.
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[01:55] <jono> is anyone seeing different fonts in Firefox and OpenOffice.org ?
[01:55] <zul> not me
[01:56] <jdong> jono: if you mean different hinting, yes
[01:56] <jono> jdong, right, so this is a known bug?
[01:56] <jdong> jono: bug 54776, I think you refer to
[01:56] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 54776 in openoffice.org "[Edgy]  font hinting does not work with libfreetype6 v. 2.2.1" [Untriaged,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/54776
[01:56] <jono> ok cool :)
[01:56] <jdong> cool in the irritating way? ;-)
[01:57] <jdong> the last comment has a workaround
[01:57] <jono> heh
[01:58] <jono> cool as in jono doesnt need to submit a bug report :)
[01:59] <Nafallo> hehe
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[02:39] <jdong> BenC: can I poke you about a puzzling usb-storage problem?
[02:43] <BenC> jdong: I might be a little lagged in responding, but sure
[02:43] <jdong> bug 61235
[02:43] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 61235 in linux-source-2.6.17 "USB mass storage stops working after a while" [Untriaged,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61235
[02:43] <jdong> see pastebin link, too
[02:46] <jdong> BenC: let me know if you need any other output... I've got the device handy
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[06:21] <fabbione> morning guys
[06:21] <Fujitsu> Hey fabbione.
[06:22] <Hobbsee> hey fabbione 
[06:23] <ajmitch> hi fabbione 
[06:23] <ajmitch> ready to warm up the sparc for the rebuild?
[06:24] <fabbione> ajmitch: almost
[06:24] <fabbione> ajmitch: there is a couple of bugs i need to get fixed first otherwise it won't work
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[06:57] <LaserJock> Burgundavia: you pinged me last night? anything important?
[06:58] <Burgundavia> LaserJock: my desktop was up for you to pbuilder on, but the machines has since died
[06:59] <LaserJock> hehe, ok
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[07:04] <Burgundavia> LaserJock: and I am in Colorado right now
[07:06] <minghua> it seems quite a lot of MOTUs are relying on Burgundavia's desktop?
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[07:07] <Fujitsu> I'm surviving on my 64kbps connection now, it's not great, but it'll do.
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[07:13] <ajmitch> this is where I need xen setup on my desktop
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[07:27] <crimsun> oh crap
[07:27] <Fujitsu> What?
[07:28] <crimsun> err, I just uploaded boost by mistake (though it's not a new upstream version)
[07:28] <ajmitch> ah, to main
[07:28] <crimsun> it does fix a crasher, though. Sorry about that.
[07:30] <lastnode> is there anyway to link a sf.net svn repo and a bzr account, so they sync?
[07:30] <lastnode> (id like bzr to sync off the sf.net svn)
[07:30] <lifeless> lastnode: what do you mean by bzr account ?
[07:30] <lastnode> sorry
[07:30] <lastnode> i mean branch
[07:31] <lastnode> i havent opened a branch yet for https://launchpad.net/products/upstream , we currently coordinate via sf.net svn. i was wondering if i open a bzr branch, is syncing possible?
[07:31] <lifeless> you can have launchpad sync a branch for you
[07:32] <lifeless> just set the RCS Details for your release series
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[07:40] <dholbach> good morning
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[07:44] <Seveas> mornin' dholbach 
[07:44] <dholbach> hey Seveas
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[07:59] <Kagou> morning
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[08:31] <pitti> Good morning
[08:31] <ajmitch> hey pitti 
[08:37] <Fujitsu> Mithrandir, hahahaha.
[08:38] <pitti> moin ajmitch 
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[08:42] <LaserJock> that is funny
[08:43] <Hobbsee> haha
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[09:07] <pitti> Kamion: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/edgy-alternate-amd64.jigdo is listed in the directory index, but leads to a 404
[09:08] <Hobbsee> hey pitti 
[09:08] <pitti> hey Hobbsee 
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[09:26] <pitti> Kamion: same for ppc, btw; i386 works
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[09:43] <seb128> Kamion, mdz: should the gnome-python split (for xubuntu) should be delayed to after beta or is that ok to upload it today?
=== seb128 grumpfs, linux 2.6.17-9 amd64 just crash to agp code on boot
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[09:46] <seb128> bug #62215
[09:46] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62215 in linux-source-2.6.17 "2.6.17-9.23 regression: crash at boot (amd64)" [High,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62215
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[10:11] <fabbione> Kamion: ping?
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[10:15] <poningru> quick question does the debian halting of ff name/artwork have impact on ubuntu?
[10:15] <poningru> or do we not know?
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[10:16] <Lathiat> debian halting?
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[10:17] <Fujitsu> poningru, there's a bug open against Firefox about it...
[10:17] <Treenaks> Lathiat: Debian is in a conflict with the Mozilla people about the 'firefox' name
[10:18] <poningru> in launchpad?
[10:19] <Fujitsu> poningru, yes.
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[10:20] <poningru> thanks
[10:23] <poningru> Fujitsu: mozilla-firefox? or firefox?
[10:23] <seb128> pitti: gdb 6.5 segfaults on gaim too
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[10:23] <Fujitsu> poningru, firefox, I think.
[10:24] <Fujitsu> There's only one of those two in LP..
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[10:24] <poningru> no lp still has m-ff and ff
[10:24] <Fujitsu> Hm, that's strange.
[10:24] <sivang> morning
[10:24] <pitti> seb128: :(
[10:25] <StevenK> poningru: Which was last updated with Hoary
[10:25] <StevenK> Hoary will hit OBSELETE next month anyway.
[10:25] <StevenK> I bet pitti is counting the days.
[10:25] <Fujitsu> True.
[10:25] <pitti> StevenK: I do :)
[10:26] <poningru> thanks
[10:26] <seb128> pitti: when I spoke about it with doko some time ago he said that could due to ssp maybe
[10:27] <ajmitch> pitti: going to celebrate? :)
[10:27] <pitti> seb128: ah, true
[10:27] <pitti> seb128: well, we could try building gcc without ssp and check again
[10:28] <pitti> ajmitch: yeah, by happily removing hoary from my mirror and by removing the hoary chroot :)
[10:28] <seb128> pitti: how do I do that?
[10:28] <pitti> seb128: add -fno-stack-protector to CFLAGS
[10:28] <Lathiat> wow thats an awesome mess
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[10:29] <seb128> pitti: for gcc? or you meant gdb?
[10:29] <pitti> seb128: gdb
[10:30] <seb128> k
[10:30] <seb128> trying
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=== seb128 hugs pitti back ;)
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[11:03] <seb128> pitti: segfaults with -fno-stack-protector too :/
[11:03] <pitti> seb128: ok, so that's not it
[11:04] <pitti> seb128: if you are at it, can you please apt-get source pkg-create-dbgsym and ./testsuite?
[11:04] <pitti> seb128: (with no SSP)
[11:04] <seb128> ok
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[11:06] <seb128> pitti: all PASS ok
[11:06] <pitti> seb128: right, but do you see some error messages about frame pointers in between?
[11:06] <pitti> seb128: I modified the latest version to work around the gdb bug, but you'll still see the messages
[11:07] <seb128> pitti: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/24757
[11:08] <pitti> seb128: oh, wow, that indeed doesn't seem to have that problem
[11:08] <pitti> seb128: thanks!
[11:08] <seb128> np
[11:08] <seb128> pitti: that's with gdb 6.5 upstream built with -fno-stack-protector
[11:17] <dholbach> jdub: you could write a Main Inclusion Report for libgalago and libgalago-sharp, then an Upstream Version Freeze exception for beagle - that's the only package using galago (apart from peekaboo applet from gossip)
[11:17] <ajmitch> beagle may already have UVF exception granted
[11:18] <ajmitch> I can't recall if it was granted for 0.2.9 or 0.2.10
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[11:26] <jdub> dholbach: wow, the peekaboo applet is surprisingly nothingish
[11:26] <jdub> oh, i see
[11:26] <jdub> it saves as favourites
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[11:36] <Kream> hi all. I've looked but I can't find the launchpad.net link to translate ubiquity-frontend-kde or -gtk. Can someone point me to it ?
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[11:37] <dholbach> Kream: better ask in #launchpad - didn't you just write a mail to  launchpad-users@  about that?
[11:38] <Kream> dholbach:  oh, i'm sorry, I didn't know there's #launchpad
[11:38] <Kream> my apologies, all
[11:38] <dholbach> Kream: not to worry :)
[11:38] <dholbach> can somebody please give back  opal  and  libgnomeuimm2.6 ?
[11:39] <Kamion> Kream: you should translate debian-installer - the ubiquity translations are merged in there
[11:39] <Kream> ahhhhhhh
[11:39] <Kream> Kamion: thanks :)
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[11:39] <cbx33> hi dholbach 
[11:40] <popey> lo cbx33 
[11:40] <Kamion> Mithrandir: we need a d-i upload - I'll work on it shortly if you haven't already
[11:40] <cbx33> hey popey 
[11:40] <cbx33> howz it going bud?
[11:40] <popey> tickety boo thanks :)
[11:40] <cbx33> excellent
=== cbx33 is another year older ;(
[11:40] <popey> you?
[11:40] <popey> today?
[11:40] <cbx33> yesterday
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[11:41] <popey> well they say life begins at 40
[11:41] <popey> :)
[11:41] <cbx33> heheh
[11:43] <cbx33> howz the "net"cast going
[11:43] <Kamion> pitti: it was probably just still syncing to mirrors
[11:43] <Kamion> seb128: can I see the diff or something?
[11:43] <Kamion> fabbione: pong
[11:44] <seb128> Kamion: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gnome-python/+bug/60615
[11:44] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 60615 in gnome-python "split out gconf bindings" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  
[11:44] <pitti> Kamion: indeed, works now; thanks
[11:44] <seb128> Kamion: cf "new debdiff"
[11:44] <Kamion> seb128: ok, I'll look in a bit, still catching up on the weekend's everything
[11:44] <cbx33> seb128: I'm sorry my pc has been up the shute recently, i'll get that patch for gconf to you for the scp integration as soon as I can
[11:45] <fabbione> Kamion: hey dude.. regarding that ppc/ruby1.8 bug.. i asked benh to look at it, but he would like to talk to you here in IRC (benh) later today. He can't reproduce the problem on his g5 and he might need some help from you. Also he thinks he might be a kernel bug and i am looking into getting a .17 kernel on davis for testing
[11:45] <Kamion> fabbione: I'm hardly an expert here ...
[11:45] <Kamion> relying on me being contactable at the moment is unfortunately not a good plan - moving house is making it very tricky
[11:45] <fabbione> Kamion: neither am I, but you are the one that did the best up till now
[11:46] <seb128> Kamion: ok, thank you. That has been discussed on the devel list too ("stuck" thread)
[11:46] <cbx33> Kamion: i may be doing the very same thing soon
[11:46] <seb128> yeah, not a nice mail subject :p
[11:46] <fabbione> Kamion: yes i am aware of that. Perhaps just add info to the bug? or something? he is subbed to it
[11:46] <fabbione> Kamion: it was not really clear to me what he wants to know from you (neither he really told me)
[11:46] <pitti> Mithrandir: cprov uploaded the new langpacks last night; can they be approved for the beta?
[11:48] <pitti> Mithrandir: oh, it seems they are already in, nevermind
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[11:51] <maswan> Mithrandir: heh. even when exploded, thinkpads seems to hold together good enough to be thwappable. also, in other things, is anyone still using ravel for real work?
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[11:57] <sivang> cbx33: hi
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[11:58] <dholbach> Mithrandir: ok to upload deskbar-applet? (just changed recommends and build-deps from python2.4-* to python-*)
[11:59] <Kamion> Mithrandir: new d-i on its way
[12:00] <Kamion> new ubiquity needed as well, on its way soon
[12:00] <cbx33> hi sivang 
[12:03] <Mithrandir> maswan: not that I know of atm, no.
[12:03] <Mithrandir> Kamion: ok, thanks.
[12:04] <Kamion> Mithrandir: oh, I think my fix for a beta-critical bug may have been wrong - occurred to me over the weekend. It's the one about automounting removable devices
[12:04] <Kamion> I did it in partman-target, but partman-basicfilesystems also sets up default mount points for everything
[12:05] <Mithrandir> hmm, true.
[12:05] <Mithrandir> I'm thinking about properly freezing the archive soonish and going into manual-approval mode.  Unless somebody has a complaint?
[12:05] <cbx33> Mithrandir: is that for main?
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[12:06] <Mithrandir> cbx33: yes.
=== ajmitch would think that a proper freeze would be a good thing
[12:06] <cbx33> I have two minor changes to push through, but they are just that, very minor....I'm getting them ready today.....I hope ogra will be able to approve them
[12:07] <maswan> Mithrandir: ok, we're thinking of making it do ACC:y thingies, if/when we get a network upgrade for ftp.acc we need more frontends
[12:07] <cbx33> Mithrandir: how soon is soon?
[12:08] <Kamion> Mithrandir: could you review http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/tmp/removable-mountpoints.diff?
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[12:10] <Kamion> it's bug 60552
[12:10] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 60552 in partman-basicfilesystems "adds removable devices to fstab by default" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/60552
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[12:10] <Mithrandir> Kamion: yeah, I'm just checking for the PATH thingy.  I think it needs to be *-usb-* as well, but I'm checking
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[12:12] <Kamion> Mithrandir: hmm?
[12:12] <Kamion> no problem with going to frozen
[12:13] <ogra> argh, who wrote the UWN this time ? 
[12:13] <ogra> Burgundavia, !
[12:13] <Mithrandir> Kamion: pci-[^-] *-usb|usb is what casper uses, at least.
[12:14] <cbx33> ogra: what's up with it?
[12:14] <carlos> seb128: hi, around?
[12:14] <ogra> cbx33, this article he links to is totally wrong ... 
[12:14] <seb128> carlos: hey
[12:14] <cbx33> oop
[12:15] <carlos> seb128: hi, about that problem I have with xchat
[12:15] <carlos> seb128: it's related with locales, but I didn't see anything obvious in the Spanish .po file
[12:15] <carlos> seb128: do you have any clue about where could I check it?
[12:15] <ogra> Burgundavia, would have been nice to have the http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/Ltsp5 article linked there, instead of being blamed for forking code and not giving it back :/
[12:16] <seb128> carlos: open a xchat-gnome bug on launchpad, some upstream guys read launchpad bugs and are nice and reply usually
[12:16] <carlos> ok, thanks
[12:17] <cassidy> carlos: what's the problem ?
[12:17] <Kamion> Mithrandir: I just nicked the code you wrote in partman-target a while back ;)
[12:17] <Kamion> Mithrandir: ok, I'll fix that, thanks
[12:17] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I probably just forgot to update that, then.  Feel free to fix that. ;-)
[12:17] <Kamion> Mithrandir: that's ID_PAT
[12:17] <Kamion> H
[12:17] <Kamion> I'm using ID_BUS ...
[12:18] <Kamion> (the code in partman-target doesn't exist any more - I resurrected it from bzr)
[12:18] <carlos> cassidy: my nick is not hilighted when someone pings me
[12:18] <carlos> cassidy: it works with LC_ALL=C but not with es_ES.UTF-8 so it's not a configuration problem
[12:18] <cassidy> carlos: rahh, yet another translation problem. GRRR
[12:19] <Mithrandir> Kamion: hmm; but won't ID_BUS sometimes be PCI for the case above?
=== cassidy dreams to use official GNOME translation team to translate x-g
[12:19] <cassidy> carlos: fill a bug
[12:19] <carlos> cassidy: I checked the Spanish .po file
[12:19] <carlos> cassidy: but I didn't find any obvious bug there
[12:20] <cassidy> we already have this kind of problem with /me messages
[12:20] <cassidy> but i don't know what's the cause
[12:20] <Kamion> Mithrandir: oh, hmmmm
[12:20] <Kamion> you know this crap better than I do, I'll defer
[12:20] <doko_> thom: hmm, why doesn't apache show files larger than 2GB
[12:20] <Kamion> Mithrandir: what about IEEE1394?
[12:20] <Kamion> do you know how that shows up in ID_PATH?
[12:21] <carlos> cassidy: that bug (/me one) is already fixed in my current version 0.13
[12:21] <cassidy> it should be fixed, yes
[12:22] <Mithrandir> Kamion: seems to be pci-$foo-ieee1394-$bar
[12:22] <Kamion> I think maybe egrep -q 'ID_PATH=(pci-[^-] *-)?(ieee1394|usb)'
[12:23] <Kamion> Mithrandir: BTW, are you ever going to fix casper to use egrep rather than grep for that? :)
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[12:23] <Mithrandir> Kamion: yeah, I should, I've just forgotten
[12:23] <thom> doko_: um, because 2.0 isn't LFS64 capable?
[12:24] <thom> (and nor is 1.3)
[12:24] <carlos> seb128, cassidy: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/xchat-gnome/+bug/62282
[12:24] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62282 in xchat-gnome "words hilight doesn't work" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  
[12:24] <seb128> carlos: thank you
[12:25] <cassidy> carlos: i think you should assign it to the spanish translation team
[12:25] <doko_> thom: thanks
[12:25] <cassidy> or assign a task to the translation pkg
[12:25] <Mithrandir> Kamion: bugs.debian.org/374539 seems to have some paths embedded.
[12:25] <carlos> cassidy: well, I'm a member and have rights to fix that, but I didn't find anything in the .po file that make me feel like I found the problem...
[12:26] <carlos> If you know the msgid that controls that in the .po file I will fix it right now
[12:26] <Kamion> Mithrandir: ah yes, thanks
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[12:27] <cassidy> carlos: i don't :\
[12:27] <carlos> ok
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[12:32] <Mithrandir> ok, main is frozen now
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[12:33] <pitti> Mithrandir: permission to upload a new xorg with a simple patch to fix bug 60448?
[12:33] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 60448 in xorg ".xsession_errors file grows out of control & saturates disk space" [High,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/60448
[12:33] <pitti> Mithrandir: http://librarian.launchpad.net/4376511/Xsession.patch
[12:33] <pitti> to avoid disk usage DoS
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[12:36] <Mithrandir> pitti: I'd like us to have a max-size for it rather than just blindly truncating it, really.  There's a bit of discussion around this on -devel, iirc and I'd like that to finish before doing something.
[12:37] <Mithrandir> pitti: feel free to disagree, obviously.
[12:38] <mvo> Mithrandir: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/tmp/python-central_0.5.5ubuntu3.debdiff <- fix upgrade issue when /usr/share/python/default_versions does not have any "old-versions" in it
[12:39] <Mithrandir> mvo: ok.
[12:39] <mvo> Mithrandir: thanks
[12:39] <pitti> Mithrandir: max-size isn't what we want, really; it would hide the most recent messages, which are usually the more interesting ones
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[12:40] <pitti> a logrotate approach might be better, but sounds like overkill for user's homes
[12:40] <Mithrandir> pitti: I was thinking about truncating it on login if it's bigger than a set size.
[12:40] <pitti> ah
[12:40] <Mithrandir> pitti: or even better, removing lines from the beginning of the file until it's smaller than said size.
[12:40] <Kamion> Mithrandir: can I upload installation-guide to document (a) Kickstart changes for %packages and keyboard and (b) console-setup preseeding?
[12:40] <Mithrandir> Kamion: yes
[12:41] <pitti> Mithrandir: ok, I'm fine with letting it sit until after the beta
[12:42] <Kamion> thanks
[12:44] <Mithrandir> pitti: something like f=.xsession-errors; if [ $(wc -c "$f") -gt $((1024*1024)) ] ; then tac $f | perl -lpe '$a += length; exit if $a > 1024*1024;' | tac | sponge $f ; fi
[12:44] <Mithrandir> but preferably slightly less hacky.
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[12:44] <Kamion> (stat)
[12:45] <Mithrandir> actually something like f=.xsession-errors; if [ $(wc -c "$f") -gt $((1024*1024)) ] ; then tac $f | head -c $((1024*1024)) | tac | sponge $f ; fi
[12:45] <Kamion> 'stat -c %s', that's the rune
[12:45] <pitti> s/sponge/a temporary file/ and tail?
[12:45] <Mithrandir> Kamion: true, that's probably better, but I started off trying to use shell-builtins.  As you see, I failed. :-)
[12:45] <Kamion> sponge is in moreutils
[12:46] <Mithrandir> pitti: sure; the point is the general idea, not my exact implementation. :-9
[12:46] <Mithrandir> s/9/)/
[12:46] <pitti> yeah, of course
[12:47] <ogra> grmbl ... why does my usplash artwork not work ...
[12:50] <Kamion> resolution?
[12:51] <cbx33> ogra: what did you alter on it?
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[12:53] <cbx33> did you get my message ogra about the png crushing? - I didn';t manage to get it to work on mine
[12:54] <cbx33> but then i did have troubles with usplash before if you recall
[12:55] <ogra> i didnt alter anything
[12:55] <cbx33> oh :(
[12:55] <ogra> the thing is that i kept the old name for the binary ... which worked well last week ... but seems to have stopped with a recent usplash upgrade 
[12:56] <ogra> i'll look into it ... no worries
[12:56] <cbx33> ok
[12:56] <cbx33> once I get this new vm machine I can test things out
[12:56] <ogra> should be the last beta critical thing left on my list 
[12:56] <cbx33> ogra: you rock dude
[12:56] <ogra> cbx33, use the qemu script we ship with ltsp ;)
[12:57] <cbx33> do you have a release critical list?
[12:57] <ogra> /usr/share/doc/ltsp-server/examples/qemu-ltsp
[12:57] <cbx33> ogra: is there a distinct advantage?
[12:57] <ogra> nope, not anymore 
[12:57] <cbx33> on the latest CD image today...i just got a filure
[12:57] <cbx33> failure
[12:57] <cbx33> in select and install software
[12:58] <ogra> apart from usplash, all should be in shape now ... there was a problem with loading the fuse module in the installer yesterday but that should be solved with the recent d-i upload from Kamion 
[12:58] <cbx33> configuring pkgsel failed
[12:58] <ogra> right
[12:58] <ogra> switch to console 4 
[12:58] <cbx33> ah is that the fuse thing
[12:58] <cbx33> ok
[12:58] <ogra> there should be ltspfs listed
[12:58] <cbx33> yes indeed
[12:58] <ogra> moaning about not finding modules.dep
[12:59] <cbx33> yeh
[12:59] <ogra> its caused by installing a -9 kernel but the installer only knows -8
[12:59] <ogra> (i hope :) )
[12:59] <cbx33> hehe.
[12:59] <cbx33> anyway to finish the installation?
[01:00] <ogra> just pick the next point in the menu
[01:00] <cbx33> ok
[01:00] <ogra> run dpkg-configure -a afetr your first login ...
[01:00] <cbx33> installing grub failed
[01:00] <ogra> luckily its only edubuntu-server and only that one package, so your install still works
[01:01] <ogra> oh
[01:01] <cbx33> calling apt-install grub failed
[01:01] <cbx33> in C4
[01:01] <ogra> that one worksed for me :/
[01:02] <Kamion> Mithrandir:    99737 | S- | python-central       | 0.5.5ubuntu3         | 22 minutes
[01:02] <Kamion> approved?
[01:02] <cbx33> ogra: do you want anymore information?
[01:02] <Mithrandir> doko_: I assume ^^ is yours?
[01:03] <mvo> Kamion, Mithrandir: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/tmp/python-central_0.5.5ubuntu3.debdiff
[01:03] <ogra> cbx33, i assume you dont have a menu.lst
[01:03] <ogra> no idea what to do here 
[01:03] <Mithrandir> doko_: sorry, no.
[01:03] <Mithrandir> Kamion: yes, approved.
[01:03] <cbx33> ogra: ok dude, not to worry
[01:03] <cbx33> I'll have to do those updates at home....I'll install with a knot3 and do the updates
[01:04] <cbx33> i was just wondering if you wanted more information in case it's a bug
[01:04] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I'll do an upload of foomatic-db with the linuxprinting.org-ppds demoted to recommends.  Sounds fine?
[01:05] <cbx33> ogra: it seems to have failed because of ltspfs and edubuntu-server
[01:05] <cbx33> because they were'n't configuerd
[01:06] <Kamion> Mithrandir: yeah
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[01:06] <cbx33> It gets to setting up grub......then errors encountered whilst processing ltspfs
[01:06] <cbx33> and edubutnu-server
[01:06] <Kamion> mvo: I don't get why that diff is needed
[01:06] <Kamion> oh, old was None
[01:06] <Kamion> mvo: if old is None: old = []  would be clearer, wouldn't it?
[01:06] <Kamion> accepted, anyway
[01:06] <doko_> Mithrandir, Kamion: not sure, if I need approval, like to upload a new python2.4 before the beta. upstream diff at http://people.ubuntu.com/~doko/p.diff
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[01:07] <Kamion> cbx33: right, the installer will get fairly hopelessly confused once something screws up in pkgsel
[01:07] <mvo> Kamion: right, probably. I just modeled it after the available code (the one for supported and default)
[01:07] <Kamion> a
[01:07] <Kamion> ah
[01:07] <cbx33> ah ok
[01:07] <cbx33> anyway I can tel it to skip those 
[01:07] <mvo> Kamion: but yeah, it would indeed be better :)
[01:07] <cbx33> just so I can finish the installation?
[01:08] <cbx33> would enable me to generate those patches I was on about a little quicker?
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[01:09] <Mithrandir> Kamion: re doko's python diff -- I don't know the code base well enough to be able to review the patch properly.  It doesn't _look_ too scary, though.  Ideas?
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[01:11] <Kamion> it should be in place for final, but I'd be inclined to defer it until after the beta unless there's a specific reason (i.e. a consequent beta-critical bug)
[01:11] <Mithrandir> doko_: is there such a bug?
[01:12] <Mithrandir> hmm, we seem to need a promotion of libvte2.0-cil to main.
[01:12] <ogra> Kamion, oh crap, you are right, my install set usplash to 640x480 which i dont have artwork for ... :/
[01:12] <cbx33> ogra: heh
[01:13] <cbx33> am I screwed with this install
[01:13] <cbx33> or can I enter the console and forge a few things?
[01:13] <Kamion> ogra: IMO all usplash themes should provide a 640x480 version
[01:13] <doko_> Kamion, Mithrandir: yes, there's another one: the patch for #56633 is included, but not applied
[01:13] <ogra> Kamion, ok ... i just looked at xubuntu, they dont have one either ...
[01:13] <cbx33> kubuntu doesn't either
[01:13] <Kamion> because that bug isn't going to be fixed for beta now, I suspect, so upgraders from the beta willl get 640x480
[01:13] <cbx33> or didn't
[01:13] <Kamion> yes, last I checked all themes had this bug
[01:13] <Kamion> it's still a bug :)
[01:13] <cbx33> I based mine on kubuntu
[01:14] <cbx33> ;)
[01:14] <ogra> is it likely to be fixed in usplash ? 
[01:14] <Kamion> ogra: it's an installer bug
=== segfault_ is now known as segfault
[01:14] <Kamion> yes, I have a plan to fix it
[01:14] <ogra> or do we release with 640x480 
[01:14] <cbx33> ;)
[01:14] <Kamion> but upgraders will still get the old configuration file
[01:14] <ogra> ah, fine then
[01:14] <cbx33> ogra: that'd push our size up afgain
[01:14] <Kamion> also I believe it only affects d-i installs
[01:14] <cbx33> :S
[01:14] <ogra> ok, i'll scale the image 
[01:15] <ogra> cbx33, we have one or two meg ... if the kernel doenst grow or something evil happens, we'll be fine
[01:15] <sladen> ogra: scaling is maybe not important, having usplash pick the largest that will fit and just plonking it in the middle would fix things acrossthe board
[01:15] <cbx33> no imeant the .so size
[01:15] <cbx33> you were concerned about size before
[01:15] <cbx33> we don;t want to make it any bigger
[01:15] <Kamion> Mithrandir: it's not in anastacia
[01:15] <Kamion> (libvte2.0-cil)
[01:16] <Kamion> sladen: that's what it does
[01:16] <ogra> sladen, right ...
[01:16] <Kamion> pretty much
[01:16] <pitti> thom: here by chance?
[01:16] <thom> pitti: yo
[01:16] <Mithrandir> Kamion: weird.  It does make gnome-sharp2 uninstallable according to ~cjwatson/testing/edgy_probs, though
[01:16] <ogra> sladen, but since thats not working yet, a smaller version will be fine as well 
[01:16] <Kamion> sladen: the problem is that a complicated interaction with the installer means that d-i installs set up usplash.conf for 640x480 by default
[01:16] <Kamion> sladen: so usplash can't find anything that fits
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[01:17] <Kamion> hmm
[01:17] <sladen> Kamion: so usplash should go "ooh, 640x400 is <= 640x480", and stick it centred
[01:18] <Kamion> sladen: I believe it does, but there's no 640x400 entry in the themes
[01:18] <Kamion> we're not talking about the testcard here
[01:18] <Mithrandir> dholbach,seb128: industrial-cursor-theme seems to need a MIR to make gtk2-engines-industrial installable again.
[01:18] <sladen> ah, so the themes are failing to provide a lowest-common-denominator
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[01:18] <Kamion> right
[01:19] <Kamion> Mithrandir: actually, anastacia wants to demote gnome-sharp2
[01:19] <Kamion> I can do that now?
[01:19] <Mithrandir> tseng: around?  Can we demote gnome-sharp2?
[01:19] <ajmitch> it's not used by anything
[01:19] <seb128> Mithrandir: we can change the Depends to a Recommends for now if you want?
[01:19] <ajmitch> all the apps should use the -cil packages
[01:20] <ajmitch> (about gnome-sharp2)
[01:20] <Mithrandir> ajmitch: ok, lets demote it then.
[01:20] <Mithrandir> Kamion: demote away. :-)
[01:20] <ogra> dholbach, the jimmac cursor moved to human-cursors-theme, right ? 
[01:20] <Mithrandir> seb128: that is fine with me, yes.
[01:20] <Mithrandir> seb128: or a MIR; I don't care either way.
[01:21] <seb128> Mithrandir: is that something that needs to be fixed quickly? the MIR is likely to be slower
[01:22] <Kamion> demoted
[01:22] <Mithrandir> seb128: nothing seems to depend on gtk2-engines-industrial, so it's not a blocker per se, but I'd like http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/testing/edgy_probs.html to be empty for beta.
[01:22] <Mithrandir> seb128: and it's showing up there..
[01:23] <seb128> Mithrandir: ok, I will take care of it
[01:23] <Mithrandir> seb128: thanks. :-9
[01:23] <Mithrandir> s/9/)/
=== Mithrandir should get a new keyboard soon -- this seems to be losing text.
=== ajmitch sees mono on the edgy_probs list - I'd guess that we don't want firebird2 in main at this stage
[01:26] <Mithrandir> dholbach: can you please do a new upload of libgnomeuimm2.6 since the previous version FTBFS-ed and infinity isn't around to give it back?
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[01:27] <dholbach> Mithrandir: same for opal, I suppose
[01:27] <dholbach> Mithrandir: (and for ekiga some time later)
[01:28] <Mithrandir> dholbach: yes, please.  And thanks.
[01:29] <dholbach> Mithrandir: no problem
[01:29] <ajmitch> sigh, firefox source package doesn't have binaries for the ldap sdk, not that it's a surprise
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[01:36] <ogra> dholbach, ^^^ ?
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[01:37] <ogra> hey sabdfl 
[01:38] <cbx33> hi sabdfl 
[01:38] <jsgotangco> hey sabdfl heh
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[01:44] <dholbach> ogra: it was just split out of ubuntu-artwork
[01:44] <ogra> dholbach, so its in there ? 
[01:44] <dholbach> ogra: it didn't change
[01:44] <ogra> i just want to know where it is ;)
[01:45] <ogra> split-> good :))
[01:45] <ogra> i can bear the 19k ;)
[01:46] <dholbach> :)
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[01:46] <_ion>  modified l-r-m to contain nvidia-beta in addition to nvidia and nvidia-legacy. Now it's easy to switch between the new beta driver (with AIGLX goodness) and the stable driver.
[01:46] <_ion> +"I "
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[01:48] <Mithrandir> pitti: you get to write a MIR for libdbd-pg-perl. :-)  (nagios-pgsql depends on it and is uninstallable)
[01:49] <pitti> heh, I wonder why we didn't need it earlier
[01:49] <pitti> sure, no problem
[01:49] <Mithrandir> yeah, and it's a useful package so I am at least happy to have it in main
[01:54] <Mithrandir> hmm, rhythmbox-applet/music-applet; should it be in main?  It's not seeded, it seems.
[01:56] <ogra> isnt RB's internal notification icon enough ? 
[01:57] <HiddenWolf> ogra: music-applet puts some buttons directly on the panel, play/pause/forward/mute etc
[01:57] <Mithrandir> well, r-a is in main, but is uninstallable ATM.
[01:57] <ogra> HiddenWolf, i know
[01:57] <ogra> HiddenWolf, but i'd still call it duplication
=== Kamion has an idea for saving CD space
=== ogra listens up :)
[01:58] <Mithrandir> Kamion: oh?  Let me hear.
[01:58] <Kamion> there are a bunch of udebs that are shipped on the CD but that are already in the d-i imag
[01:58] <Kamion> e
[01:58] <ogra> ohh :)
[01:58] <Kamion> might not save very much though, so don't get your hopes up just yet
[01:59] <Kamion> need to do some seed magic to exclude them
[01:59] <Mithrandir> slomo_: rhythmbox-applet/music-applet; should music-applet be in main or not?  If so, why is it not seeded?
[02:00] <Kamion> we'd be able to save more if there weren't a requirement established by past bug reports that the alternate install CD should be a repository you can mount on a server and netboot off
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[02:04] <Kamion> hmm, doesn't quite work right
[02:04] <Kamion> libc6-udeb is resolved wrongly
[02:04] <pitti> Mithrandir: libdbd-pg-perl looks good, feel free to have it promoted
[02:04] <pitti> Mithrandir: I'm writing the report now
[02:05] <Mithrandir> pitti: thanks.
[02:05] <Mithrandir> Kamion: if you could promote libdbd-pg-perl when you have time, that'd be nice.
[02:07] <Kamion> Mithrandir: done
[02:07] <Mithrandir> thanks a lot
[02:08] <pitti> Mithrandir: done
[02:08] <pitti> Kamion: I'll move the report to 'approved' section then
[02:10] <slomo_> Mithrandir: i have no idea about rhythmbox... ask seb128, he cares for it ;)
[02:10] <Kamion> pitti: ok
[02:11] <seb128> slomo_: music-applet is not rb specific ;)
[02:11] <seb128> Mithrandir: any reason it should be to main?
[02:11] <seb128> Mithrandir: rhythmbox has a notify icon and can be commanded from it
[02:12] <slomo_> seb128: ah i see... but afaik all music players already have a notification area icon for this kind of stuff anyway
[02:12] <seb128> right
[02:13] <Mithrandir> seb128: : tfheen@golem ..0.9.2/aspell6.pt-20060906 > apt-cache show rhythmbox-applet| grep Section
[02:13] <Mithrandir> Section: gnome
[02:13] <Mithrandir> seb128: it already _is_ in main; I was wondering why.
[02:14] <seb128> good question
[02:14] <Kamion> Mithrandir: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/tmp/ubiquity-1.1.23.diff - OK to upload? Most of it's d-i changes. Unfortunately I'm unable to test the ubiquity change at the moment due to my vmware installation being in a different house and off the network, but I know the current situation doesn't work (it was an erratum in a previous Knot)
[02:15] <Kamion> I'm pretty sure that moving the configuration file aside will "fix" console-setup to make it behave as if it were being configured in d-i
[02:15] <Kamion> or otherwise from scratch
[02:17] <Mithrandir> Kamion: ok, feel free to upload
[02:17] <StevenK> Kamion: You've had to move some of your machines and not others? Bugger.
[02:18] <Kamion> StevenK: right :(
[02:18] <Kamion> I'm on a minimal working environment here until the ADSL is installed at the new place
[02:19] <Kamion> router, server, and laptop
[02:19] <Kamion> Mithrandir: thanks
[02:19] <StevenK> Kamion: Ugh.
[02:20] <Kamion> oh, and no desk
[02:20] <StevenK> Just to make working more comfortable.
[02:21] <cbx33> heheh
[02:21] <cbx33> that sux Kamion 
[02:21] <cbx33> hope the new place is nice ;)
[02:21] <cbx33> we're going to look at a new place tonight......
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[02:23] <StevenK> Hrm. I'm trying to remember how long it took me for get ADSL at the new place.
[02:23] <StevenK> I think it was a matter of 2 days or something.
[02:24] <Lathiat> in .au it takes anywhere from 1-7 days
[02:24] <Lathiat> in some cases longer
[02:25] <cbx33> crikey
[02:25] <ajmitch> that's pretty quick
[02:25] <StevenK> I was moving within the same suburb, so I think it just a matter of moving one cable in the same exchange.
[02:26] <Lathiat> StevenK: thats less of an issue as the fact it takes a while for telstra to get out to an exchange
[02:26] <Lathiat> + the isps internal rpcoess etc
[02:26] <Lathiat> it depends theres like a roster
[02:26] <Lathiat> deends when you apply
[02:26] <Lathiat> compared to when theyre going there
=== StevenK nods.
[02:26] <Lathiat> sometimes your lucky, sometimes your unlucky
[02:26] <Lathiat> :)
[02:26] <tseng> Mithrandir: hi
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[02:27] <Mithrandir> tseng: hiya; I think we resolved the problem (and ended up demoting gnome-sharp2)
[02:27] <zul> heylo
[02:27] <tseng> Mithrandir: yes, how does that seem to be a good idea?
[02:27] <ajmitch> hi zul 
[02:28] <tseng> Mithrandir: that would demote tomboy, f-spot
[02:28] <Mithrandir> tseng: uh, don't they depend on the -cil packages?
[02:28] <Mithrandir> tseng: I'm talking about the binary package, not the source.
[02:28] <tseng> Mithrandir: OH
[02:28] <Mithrandir> sorry about that being unclear. :-)
[02:28] <tseng> Mithrandir: but they all rdepend on libgnome2.0-cil as well
[02:29] <tseng> one second
[02:29] <tseng> Mithrandir: you got it.. you can demote that
[02:29] <Mithrandir> tseng: done already, but it's always nice to get confirmation that you didn't do something stupid. :-)
[02:30] <slomo_> which problem was solved by demoting it to universe btw? :)
[02:30] <tseng> Mithrandir: yeah, meta package, sorry for lack of alertness
[02:30] <slomo_> it's only a metapacakge
[02:30] <Mithrandir> slomo_: it was uninstallable since libvte2.0-cil is in universe.
[02:30] <slomo_> ok
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[02:36] <seb128> Mithrandir: I don't get why rhythmbox-applet,music-applet are to main, they are not seeded and nothing Depends on it
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[02:38] <Mithrandir> seb128: maybe something used to depend on it?
[02:39] <Mithrandir> seb128: anyway, if it shouldn't be in main, we'll just demote it.  It's not like it's hard to promote it later if we want that.
[02:39] <seb128> right
[02:39] <seb128> Mithrandir: http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/08_uuid_mount.patch ... would it be ok to upload?
[02:39] <seb128> Mithrandir: that's a gnome-vfs patch to not duplicate devices and drives due to the new UUID format it doesn't understand
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[02:40] <seb128> Mithrandir: patch seems to work fine on my box and looks fine to pitti who had a look on it
[02:40] <Kamion> music-applet is in universe actually, it's just the source that's in main
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[02:41] <Kamion> er, in fact not even that
[02:41] <Mithrandir> Kamion: rhythmbox-applet is in main while the source is in universe, yes.
[02:41] <Mithrandir> (renamed source)
[02:41] <Kamion> for some reason the rhythmbox-applet binary is in main without its source - I guess it used to come from another source package
[02:41] <Kamion> yea
[02:41] <Kamion> yeah
[02:41] <Mithrandir> seb128: ok, feel free.
[02:41] <Kamion> demoted
[02:41] <seb128> Mithrandir: thank you
[02:42] <Tonio_> pitti: ping ?
[02:43] <seb128> Tonio_: I think he's taking a break, maybe better to give some ping context so he can reply when he's back
[02:44] <Tonio_> seb128: hehe yes :)
[02:44] <Tonio_> seb128: another personn can revue main inclusion reports appart from him ?
[02:45] <Kamion> pitti: don't you need to upload non-base language packs to match the -base ones?
[02:45] <Kamion> pitti: all the language packs are uninstallable at the moment
[02:45] <Tonio_> Kamion: just saw this yes....
[02:45] <seb128> Tonio_: not sure, pitti does them usually
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[02:45] <Tonio_> seb128: okay I'll wait a bit, thanks for the info
[02:45] <seb128> np
[02:45] <pitti> Kamion: sure, they all need to be in sync
[02:46] <pitti> Kamion: I asked to have all of them uploaded
[02:46] <Kamion> pitti: where are they? I can upload them for you
[02:46] <pitti> Kamion: I'll check with Celso
[02:46] <Kamion> ok
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[02:51] <Mithrandir> Kamion: hmm, can you approve my foomatic-db upload, please?
[02:51] <Kamion> Mithrandir: just did a few minutes ago
[02:51] <Mithrandir> ok, thanks
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[03:41] <dholbach> Kamion: can you approve my opal and libgnomeuimm2.6 uploads? (mere rebuilds, that will make them build and installable again) - the deskbar-applet upload is not that important, and if we want the ubiquity-aware gnome-orca on the beta cd, you could approve that too :)
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[03:57] <bddebian> Howdy folks
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[04:07] <jdong__> does the GDM prefetcher thingie actually work in ubuntu?
[04:07] <jdong__> /etc/X11/gdm/gdmprefetchlist
[04:08] <jdong__> is that actually prefetched by GDM?
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[04:20] <doko_> Mithrandir, Kamion: we do want a python2.4 upload for the beta. please see chinstrap:~doko/python2.4
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[04:22] <ogra> Mithrandir, edubuntu-artwork uplaod ok with you ? 
[04:23] <azeem> /W/ 5
[04:23] <azeem> yay.
=== thom blinks at azeem 
[04:24] <bddebian> heh
=== tseng winks at thom 
[04:24] <bddebian> doko_: Have a sec by any chance?
[04:25] <doko_> ?
[04:25] <azeem> thom: sorry
[04:25] <bddebian> doko_: I'm still trying to understand azureus a little and what your thoughts/concerns are
[04:25] <jdong__> bddebian: wow, still working on azureus?
[04:26] <bddebian> jdong__: Never really got a good start :-(
=== jdong__ seriously underestimated the amount of work involved then :-/
[04:26] <jdong__> bddebian: I personally thought taking our azureus package, replacing Azureus2.jar with 2.5.0.0's would've done the trick 
[04:26] <jdong__> as thatI's what i am doing on my systems
[04:27] <doko_> bddebian: what don't you understand?
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[04:28] <bddebian> doko_: The issue with the Debian package and using Redhat patches.  Is the major concern with the Debian package just that it uses a non-free compiler?
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[04:29] <doko_> bddebian: "just".
[04:29] <jdong__> do we really need to compile azureus instead of shipping the jars?
[04:29] <jdong__> azureus is virtually unusable with GCJ anyway
[04:29] <jdong__> it's ridiculously slow, and once every 30 minutes it goes on a 3GB memory rampage
[04:30] <doko_> bddebian: we are about free software; the Debian maintainer didn't look at the Fedora patches
[04:30] <doko_> jdong__: it works on Fedora, why shouldn't it work on Ubuntu?
[04:30] <jdong__> doko: have you tried it yourself under fedora? The last time I did, I was not impressed
[04:31] <doko_> jdong: done with FC6t3. works for me.
[04:31] <jdong__> ok, they must've fixed something since FC5's initial release then
[04:31] <jdong__> back then it was terrible
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[04:32] <bddebian> doko_: Part of the problem is that I don't know RedHats package/patch "system" well enough to break it down :-(
[04:33] <doko_> bddebian: what do you need to know? these are just diffs, already broken down
[04:33] <tseng> bddebian: there are a gazillion patches in the top level source, and the spec file lists the ones to be applied in order
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[04:35] <bddebian> But the patches from their cvs doesn't have the actual source and I don't know where to get their "source" package from
[04:36] <tseng> from their mirrors?
[04:36] <bddebian> I don't freakin' use Redhat :)
[04:36] <tseng> .srpm
[04:36] <tseng> neither do it
[04:36] <tseng> *I
[04:36] <jdong__> bddebian: go onto a fedora mirror
[04:37] <tseng> http://mirrors.kernel.org/fedora/core/development/source/SRPMS/
[04:37] <tseng> you can unpack that with rpm or file-roller
[04:38] <thom> rpm2cpio foo.srpm | cpio -i 
[04:38] <jdong__> http://mirrors.kernel.org/fedora/extras/development/SRPMS/azureus-2.5.0.0-6.fc6.src.rpm
[04:38] <thom> will give you a bunch of crap scattered over your current directory
[04:38] <jdong__> it's in fedora extras
[04:38] <jdong__> rpm -ivh it
[04:38] <tseng> http://mirrors.kernel.org/fedora/extras/development/SRPMS/azureus-2.5.0.0-6.fc6.src.rpm
[04:39] <realist> azuerus is a bloated pile of *expletives removed*
[04:39] <jdong__> that splits out everything to /usr/src/redhat
[04:39] <bddebian> I guess my question is, why the hell should I need to? :)
[04:39] <jdong__> realist: please, cut that out... not necessary
[04:39] <tseng> dont' rpm -i it that is the most assinine thing ever
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[04:40] <realist> jdong__: you said so yourself.
[04:40] <tseng> bddebian: you don't, do what thom said
[04:40] <jdong__> realist: no, that's a GCJ problem. with sun Java azureus stays well under 50Mb of memory usage for me
[04:40] <realist> bddebian: there's no guarantee fedora's compile will work with debians jvm, is there?
[04:40] <tseng> realist: no one is looking at fedoras "compile"
[04:41] <tseng> realist: its a source package
[04:41] <doko_> realist: why?
[04:41] <mjr> jdong__, is that to say that azureus works with gcj nowadays?
[04:41] <jdong__> mjr: yeah, it's supposed to
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[04:41] <jdong__> mjr: that's how fedora does it
[04:41] <realist> tseng: someone asked if it "really" needed to be compiled
[04:41] <jdong__> I asked that....
[04:42] <mjr> well, nice that it isn't completely in the java trap anymore then, even if there's some memory issues...
[04:42] <jdong__> mjr: I think the memory issue is resolved
[04:42] <tseng> realist: i don't see the connection to redhat in that particular line of logic
[04:42] <jdong__> mjr: I was going by my experience back when FC5 jusr released
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[04:42] <bddebian> Well apparently there is an issue with our monodevelop or something too, I have to get with welshbyte again about his issues
[04:43] <tseng> bddebian: eh?
[04:43] <realist> tseng: then why is everyone discussing FC5/6 etc?
[04:43] <jdong__> tseng: I think he's saying azureus from fedora might not build successfully in a ubuntu build environment?
[04:43] <tseng> realist: because they are looking for the patches in redhats source
[04:43] <jdong__> realist: because we're stealing fedora sources?
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[04:43] <tseng> sigh
[04:43] <bddebian> *SIGH*
[04:44] <realist> jdong__: only if shipping a working/usable version under debian/ubuntu's GCJ is a _requirement_
[04:44] <bddebian> tseng: I mean Eclipse, not mono sorry
[04:44] <tseng> bddebian: oh
[04:44] <realist> jdong__: not really theft?
[04:45] <tseng> bddebian: thanks
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[04:45] <jdong__> realist: stealing being used affectionately in the OSS development way ;-)
[04:45] <tseng> realist: please stop arguing silly things
[04:45] <Mithrandir> ogra: edubuntu-artwork: fine
[04:46] <Treenaks> 'Oh shit! Dat gebouw heeft een fundering, DAAR hadden we geen rekening mee gehouden, nu kost het graven 2 miljoen extra
[04:46] <Treenaks> 'Shit! NOG zo'n gebouw!'
[04:46] <Treenaks> etc.
[04:46] <Treenaks> uhr
[04:46] <ogra> Mithrandir, to late anyway, i'm impatient ;)
[04:46] <realist> tseng: my intention is not to argue.
[04:46] <Treenaks> (yay out-of-control building costs of the local metro line ;))
[04:46] <thom> Treenaks: wrong window maybe? :-)
[04:46] <tseng> realist: you started with an outright troll, and from there, you have questioned or argued every point. please stop now.
[04:46] <Treenaks> thom: yes
[04:47] <tseng> realist: (without reading and understanding completely)
[04:47] <mvo> Mithrandir: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/tmp/gnome-app-install_0.2.15.debdiff <- I would like to upload these changes + desktop file updates before the beta. is that ok? the most import fix is the one in Menu.py
[04:47] <Treenaks> thom: related to a broken keyboard config (my right alt broke!)
[04:47] <ogra> Kamion, i have hand copied some code in usplash-theme-edubuntu.c and added a 640x480 pic ... you probably want to grab that for ubuntu as quick interim for beta
[04:47] <realist> tseng: perhaps you could correct me then?
[04:47] <tseng> I have been, its tiring
[04:47] <tseng> I am putting you on ignore now
[04:48] <doko_> pitti: python2.4 update for dapper in chinstrap:~doko/python2.4
[04:48] <realist> tseng: rather than discouraging me from participating.
[04:48] <Kamion> dholbach: libgnomeuimm2.6 and opal done; gnome-orca is Mithrandir's decision
[04:48] <dholbach> Kamion: gracias
[04:48] <Mithrandir> mvo: ok.
[04:49] <jdong__> bddebian: just for the fun of it I'll see if I can build the fedora sources on edgy :)
[04:49] <Mithrandir> dholbach: gnome-orca is just a rebuild, right?  Have you tested it?
[04:49] <dholbach> Mithrandir: I uploaded gnome-orca, which has an added script that enables it to work with ubiquity
[04:49] <Kamion> ogra: I'd prefer it if somebody who normally does artwork did it
[04:49] <ogra> ok
[04:49] <Mithrandir> dholbach: while having that would be nice, I'm tempted to say "after beta".
[04:49] <Kamion> although I do think that we should grab it
[04:50] <ogra> i just wanted it "fixed" for edubuntu 
[04:50] <dholbach> Mithrandir: ok
[04:50] <ogra> but surely Seveas is the better bet for the code here
[04:50] <bddebian> jdong__: Enjoy, my head exploded about 30 minutes ago :-)
[04:50] <Seveas> ?
[04:50] <Kamion> coo, soyuz queue ids just hit six digits
[04:50] <ogra> Seveas, we need a 640x480 usplash theme 
[04:51] <Kamion> Mithrandir: there's a gnome-vfs2 upload here too
[04:51] <realist> jdong__: that's the spirit!
[04:51] <Seveas> ogra, I know, have been awfully busy
[04:51] <ogra> Seveas,  i created one by manually copying the 800x600 struct and adjusting the alues ... but thats surely not the proper way :)
[04:51] <Seveas> ogra, actually, it is
[04:51] <ogra> *values
[04:51] <ogra> oh, ok
[04:51] <Kamion> presumably you needed a 640x480 pixmap too
[04:51] <Seveas> yeah
[04:52] <Mithrandir> Kamion: gnome-vfs> approved, asssuming it's from seb and does UUID handling.
[04:52] <mvo> thanks Mithrandir
[04:52] <ogra> right ... i just scaled the indexed 800x600 which looks horrible
[04:52] <Seveas> I hope mjg59 wakes up one of these days, I want to change something in usplash to save a few MB on live filesystems
=== sladen slams head against wall
[04:52] <Seveas> ogra, scaling while preserving the colormap?
[04:52] <ogra> sladen, ?
[04:52] <ogra> Seveas, right
[04:52] <ogra> you can imagine the uglyness :)
[04:53] <Mithrandir> Seveas: oh, what?
[04:53] <Seveas> not really
[04:53] <sladen> ogra: when a file is already anti-aliased, it's not that ugly
[04:53] <Kamion> Mithrandir: correct
[04:53] <ogra> sladen, if its indexed .... 
[04:53] <Kamion> (bug 57701)
[04:53] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 57701 in gnome-vfs "[edgy]  gnome shows duplicated mounts" [Unknown,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/57701
[04:53] <sladen> ogra: when a file is already anti-aliased and has an indexed palette, it's not that ugly
[04:53] <Mithrandir> Kamion: yeah, that's the one.
[04:53] <Seveas> Mithrandir, storing the artwork.so bzipped and letting usplash_down and the initramfs creation hook extract it. example ubuntu theme goes from 2 mb to 45k
[04:53] <ogra> sladen, well, i assume our images are anti-aliased ...
[04:54] <Seveas> when the animations, which the art team worked on, are going to be used, this really becomes neccessary
[04:54] <sladen> Seveas: the initramfs is already gzip compressed
[04:54] <ogra> sladen, i would have to convert them back and forth 
[04:54] <Mithrandir> Seveas: it doesn't really matter, since the livefs is compressed.
[04:54] <ogra> indexed->RGB->scale->indexed
[04:55] <sladen> ogra: only ever do the conversion *once*
[04:55] <Seveas> sladen, that's why I said initramfs creation hook ;) the artwork.so is still uncompressed on the filesystem
[04:55] <Mithrandir> Seveas: gzip -9 (which isn't too far from what squashfs gives us) reduces usplash-theme-ubuntu to about 59k.
[04:55] <Seveas> Mithrandir, ah ok, that rules that out
[04:55] <Mithrandir> Seveas: nice idea, though. :-)
[04:55] <ogra> sladen, but i was promised to get a proper pic after beta anyway ... as interim its better than a black screen ;)
[04:55] <Seveas> (this is exactly why I wanted to talk to $someone_with_more_brains before hacking on it ;))
[04:56] <sladen> ogra: just use the gimp and do a linear scale in indexed-mode
[04:56] <ogra> didnt work, thats exactly what i did
[04:56] <sladen> ogra: excellent.  no converstion
[04:56] <sladen> ogra: s/conversation/conversion/
[04:57] <ogra> well, the screen looks horrible :)
[04:57] <ogra> but i dont care ... i'll get proper pics later .... *shrug* 
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[05:00] <jdong__> bddebian: well, first round through, only about 5000 build errors :)
[05:00] <bddebian> hehe
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[05:04] <jdong__> bddebian: whoo! down to 16 :)
[05:05] <pygi> jdong: nice ^_^
[05:05] <jdong__> anyone here know much about SWT?
[05:05] <jdong__> I'm getting random SWT errors here
[05:05] <jdong__> i suspect it's because SWT 3.1 is not new enough
[05:05] <tkamppeter> pitti, mdz, doko_: I am uploading a new foomatic-db currently, with linuxprinting.org-ppds split, so that only the most important pPDs get onto the CD, and OpenOffice.org can stay.
[05:05] <jdong__> Fedora builds against SWT 3.2
[05:05] <pygi> jdong: cant we get swt 3.2?
[05:05] <jdong__> pygi: I'd imagine so?
[05:06] <doko_> tkamppeter: "OpenOffice.org can stay"? lol ...
[05:06] <jdong__> SWT.Settings
[05:06] <jdong__> not defined?
[05:06] <Mithrandir> tkamppeter: how big is the new -ppds package?
[05:06] <tkamppeter> foomatic-db: 580KB, linuxprinting.org-ppds: 3577KB, linuxprinting.org-ppds-extra: 10MB.
[05:07] <jdong__> bddebian: so far the build looks very straightforward... minus these SWT failures
[05:07] <jdong__> bddebian: the spec file is virtually an instruction book for building :0
[05:07] <Mithrandir> tkamppeter: let's take a look at this after beta.
[05:07] <tkamppeter> I have split off all PPDs from Ricoh and partners and all non-english PPDs from Kyocera, Kyocera were the only ones who have delivered translated PPDs.
[05:08] <bddebian> jdong__: SWT becomes the problem with Eclipse vs swt Debian pacakages iirc
[05:08] <doko_> Mithrandir: err, currently it's *bigger* 
[05:08] <jdong__> bddebian: I'm gonna be unholy, and just download azureus.sf.net's bundled jars and see if I can build against them
[05:08] <jdong__> bddebian: would doing so make the package unsuitable for universe?
[05:09] <tkamppeter> Download address for everyone interested, as usual: http://www.freestandards.org/~till/tmp/ubuntu/edgy/foomatic-db/
[05:09] <jdong__> well let's try it as an experiment... see if swt 3.2 is really to blame
[05:10] <bddebian> jdong__: We can always just blame doko_ ;-P
[05:11] <jdong__> bddebian: alternate approach: swt-gtk 3.2 is in debian sid... I'll just build a quick deb of it
[05:11] <jdong__> bddebian: meanwhile, how about a sync of that to edgy? :)
[05:11] <bddebian> jdong__:  I think you will get conflicts with Eclipse?
[05:11] <doko_> jdong__: it won't help for an upload.
[05:13] <bddebian> doko_: Should it be built with Eclipse?
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[05:14] <doko_> bddebian: once eclipse-3.2 is in the archive, yes.
[05:14] <bddebian> doko_: Well get on it..
=== bddebian ducks
[05:14] <jdong__> lol
[05:14] <jdong__> so hold azureus until then, I guess
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=== jdong__ still tries building against prepared swt 3.2 jars, for fun
[05:16] <Mithrandir> doko_: no, currently it just recommends -ppds
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[05:17] <doko_> Mithrandir, Kamion: you'll get another 8MB on the CD, currently checking ...
[05:17] <Kamion> and it probably still should - from what I understand, it should be seeded when we want it, not be a depends of foomatic-db
=== ogra listens up 8MB ???
[05:18] <jdong__> doko, bddebian: builds cleanly with azureus's provided swt.jar.... which is just 3.2... so we need swt 3.2 :)
[05:19] <Kamion> ogra: you really need to relax sometimes ;)
[05:19] <ogra> Kamion, my CDs are so beautiful in shape atm :) 
[05:20] <tseng> ogra: rock
[05:20] <Mithrandir> doko_: 8MB from what?
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=== jdong|laptop gives up on azureus again
[05:28] <jdong|laptop> damn plugins fail to build
=== jdong|laptop hands job back to bddebian :)
=== bddebian runs away
[05:29] <jdong|laptop> come back you!
[05:29] <jdong|laptop> but seriously, it doesn't look all that bad
[05:29] <jdong|laptop> just my java knowledge is virtually zip
[05:29] <jdong|laptop> especially when it comes to all this swt stuff
[05:30] <jdong|laptop> maybe we should be starting with like FC5 srpms instead
[05:30] <jdong|laptop> which I hope are still against swt 3.1.1
[05:31] <bddebian> jdong|laptop: Well I have none either.  And I still don't know how to/don't know if I want to get source rpms
[05:32] <jdong|laptop> bddebian: install the rpm package, and file-roller unpacks them just fine
[05:32] <jdong|laptop> all the patches, sources, and the build script will be in one directory
[05:32] <bddebian> Install what rpm package?
[05:32] <jdong|laptop> follow the patching order as specified in the spec file
[05:32] <jdong|laptop> bddebian: apt-get install rpm
[05:33] <jdong|laptop> that gets you the rpm2cpio command for extracting rpms
[05:33] <bddebian> Aye, I'm talking about the rpm itself :)
[05:33] <jdong|laptop> bddebian: I put a link to the fc6 srpm a while up
[05:33] <jdong|laptop> http://mirrors.kernel.org/fedora/extras/development/SRPMS/
[05:36] <jdong|laptop> BenC: poke?
[05:37] <Trewas> jdong|laptop: btw fedora has some "inside knowledge" on azureus as green_ from redhat did the required work on fixing both azureus and gcj to work together
[05:37] <jdong|laptop> Trewas: well hopefully all the gcj magic got back upstream and more imprtantly to us :)
[05:38] <jdong|laptop> right now I'm pretty sure the fact the plugins don't build is a matter of me sucking at getting jars together
[05:38] <mdz> good morning
[05:38] <jdong|laptop> morning, mdz :)
[05:38] <ogra> morning mdeslaur 
[05:38] <ogra> bah
[05:38] <ogra> mdz
[05:38] <mdz> seb128: gnome-python split -> let's wait until after beta
[05:39] <mdz> tkamppeter: re: foomatic-db, let's talk about it first
[05:39] <mvo> good morning mdz
[05:39] <seb128> mdz: ok
[05:40] <doko_> Mithrandir: OOo dependencies
[05:40] <seb128> morning mdz ;)
[05:41] <pitti> hey mdz
[05:41] <BenC> jdong: hey, haven't had a chance to look at that bug report yet...I need to get this jmicron stuff done
[05:42] <jdong|laptop> BenC: k, do that first :0
[05:42] <jdong|laptop> :0
[05:42] <jdong|laptop> stupid shift key
[05:42] <seb128> BenC: do you require any debug information for bug #62215?
[05:42] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62215 in linux-source-2.6.17 "2.6.17-9.23 regression: crash at boot (amd64)" [High,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62215
[05:42] <bddebian> Heya mdz
[05:44] <jdong|laptop> hmm, is it just me or is ff 2.0b2 really crashy?
[05:44] <jdong|laptop> at least the ubuntu package
[05:45] <pitti> it works perfectly for me
[05:45] <pitti> but I only have few extensions
[05:45] <jdong|laptop> I have a clean profile here, too
[05:45] <jdong|laptop> I am suspecting nvidia drivers might be a part of the issue
[05:45] <jdong|laptop> as it works fine on my two other laptops, too
[05:45] <pitti> jdong|laptop: I use nvidia here, too
[05:45] <jdong|laptop> weird
[05:45] <jdong|laptop> heck right now gmail makes it crash
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[05:46] <jdong|laptop> The program 'Gecko' received an X Window System error.
[05:46] <tkamppeter> mdz, have you looked into my uploaded foomatic-db files? Is the splitting OK, or do I need to split off more?
[05:46] <BenC> seb128: No, I have that fixed
[05:47] <Kamion> Riddell: do you know why bug 61710 is assigned to you? it seems a bit odd to assign a GTK frontend bug to you
[05:47] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 61710 in ubiquity "Selected keyboard layout is not visible on-screen" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61710
[05:47] <BenC> seb128: Uploading tonight to fix it, but I need to get jmicron working too
[05:47] <BenC> and ich8
[05:47] <seb128> BenC: ok, nice
[05:47] <BenC> jmicron sent me an eval board, and it's not cooperating
[05:47] <BenC> I may have to beat it into submission
[05:48] <jdong|laptop> hehe
=== jdong|laptop wishes BenC luck
[05:48] <Riddell> Kamion: no idea
[05:48] <mdz> tkamppeter: I haven't, no.  I just got to the office
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[05:48] <jdong|laptop> thousands of people with too much money^H^H^H^H core 2 duos are counting on you , benc :)
[05:49] <iwj> janimo, dholbach: I'll deal with Frank's new theme package, unless one of you is already on the case.
[05:49] <mdz> tkamppeter: I'm not sure about the idea of shipping fewer drivers; what happens if a user connects a printer which isn't supported by the default set of drivers?
[05:49] <dholbach> iwj: super, thanks.
[05:49] <mdz> tkamppeter: I don't think we have the infrastructure to lead them to install the package yet
[05:49] <Kamion> mdz: hmm, apparently you assigned 61710 to Riddell?
[05:50] <ogra> iwj, does that induce any work for me i edubuntu ? 
[05:50] <ogra> *in
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[05:55] <mdz> bug 61710
[05:55] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 61710 in ubiquity "Selected keyboard layout is not visible on-screen" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61710
[05:55] <mdz> Kamion: yes, I only noticed it in the KDE frontend
[05:57] <ogra> doko_, i have a broken alternative in  a fresh install ...
[05:57] <ogra> doko_, Ubuntu Development (not support, even with edgy) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs | 6.06.1 released | Beta Freeze in effect
[05:57] <ogra> ergh
[05:57] <Riddell> oh, because united states is at the end of the list
=== ogra kicks xchat
[05:58] <ogra> doko_, lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 43 2006-09-25 04:00 /etc/alternatives/keytool.1.gz -> /usr/lib/jvm/java-gcj/man/man1/keytool.1.gz
[05:58] <Riddell> so how does gtk get around that?  u will always be near the end
[05:58] <doko_> ogra: yes, known
[05:58] <ogra> oki
[05:59] <Kamion> mdz: oh!
[05:59] <Kamion> mdz: that was not at all clear from the bug
[05:59] <mdz> Kamion: yes, I see that now
[05:59] <Kamion> I've clarified
[05:59] <mdz> as have I
[05:59] <Kamion> Riddell: I do scroll_to_cell in the gtk frontend to force it to move to near the selected item
[06:00] <iwj> ogra: I don't think so.  Why might it ?
[06:00] <Riddell> Kamion: right, I'll look into that
[06:00] <ogra> iwj, i mean, does it enable themeing for us via the -artwork package 
[06:00] <ogra> ?
[06:01] <ogra> (which would mean i'd try to have a gartoon theme ready after beta
[06:01] <ogra> )
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[06:06] <iwj> ogra: Err, you mean, does it move the default theme selection into ubuntu-artwork ?
[06:07] <ogra> well, your last statement was that its hardcoded in ff 
[06:07] <ogra> so i gave up trying to have a replacement theme for gartoon
[06:07] <iwj> What is gartoon ?
[06:07] <kristog> an icon theme
[06:07] <kristog> afaik
[06:08] <ogra> iwj, the theme edubuntu uses
[06:08] <iwj> Aha.
[06:09] <iwj> It's not hardcoded in ff any more.  The switch was going to be moved to ubuntu-artwork but it seems still to be in firefox-themes-ubuntu.
[06:12] <ogra> so i could make a firefox-themes-edubuntu package that replaces this one ? 
[06:12] <ogra> and adds the proper default icons ...
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[06:13] <iwj> Yes.
[06:13] <iwj> I assume you mean `replaces' rather than `Replaces:'.
[06:13] <iwj> It might be easier to modify the firefox-themes-ubuntu source to generate the other binary you want.
[06:15] <iwj> I don't know how the theme generation actually works - there's a bunch of php written by Frank.  You might want to talk to him about what you're trying to do.
[06:15] <iwj> Or feel free to arrange an ircmeeting with all three of us.
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[06:16] <iwj> ogra: The bzr is http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-art-pkg/firefox-themes-ubuntu/ubuntu if you want to take a look.
[06:17] <ogra> iwj, ta :)
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[06:29] <Kamion> Riddell: ensureItemVisible() seems to be the QListView equivalent of GTK's scroll_to_cell()
[06:29] <Kamion> http://doc.trolltech.com/3.3/qlistview.html#ensureItemVisible
[06:29] <Kamion> so it should be a one-liner to fix
[06:29] <tkamppeter> mdz, if a user connects a printer whose PPD file we do not ship, the printer is set up with a generic PostScript PPD file if it is in the Foomatic database. If it is not in the Foomatic database, it is shown as unknown.
[06:30] <tkamppeter> mdz, what do you mean with "I don't think we have the infrastructure to lead them to install the package yet"?
[06:30] <mdz> tkamppeter: it is worth the extra disk space to have it work out of the box; later on we can consider fetching extra driver packages automatically from the network if we need the space
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[06:30] <Viper550> I saw that Usplash theme on Xubuntu
[06:31] <tkamppeter> mdz, WDYT what is best:
[06:32] <tkamppeter> 1. No PPDs on CD, all of them in linuxprinting.org-ppds in Universe?
[06:32] <tkamppeter> 2. All PPDs in the package linuxprinting.org-ppds on the CD and removing apps to gain space?
[06:33] <tkamppeter> 3. Splitting linuxprinting.org-ppds (as I did now) and having the PPDs for most common printers on the CD and the less common in universe?
[06:33] <ogra> s/universe/main/ ?
[06:34] <tkamppeter> ogra, there are programs in main which are not on the CD?
[06:34] <ogra> sure, tons
[06:34] <tkamppeter> Then the PPDs which do not fit onto the CDs should at least be in main.
[06:34] <ogra> right
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[06:35] <elmo> mvo: can I reboot davis?
[06:35] <tkamppeter> Someone told that currently linuxprinting.org-ppds is in universe? This is strange, should it not be in main then?
[06:36] <ogra> nobody wrote a main inclusion report yet i guess
[06:39] <mdz> tkamppeter: I haven't reviewed the situation with CD space, but drivers are low on the list of things to remove to make space
[06:40] <mdz> tkamppeter: SeedManagement in the wiki explains some; also UbuntuMainInclusionQueue
[06:40] <mdz> tkamppeter: if the package is just a split of existing data and doesn't introduce anything new, then it can move into main quickly
[06:40] <ogra> (but please dont make the CDs grow ... edubuntu is at the edge)
[06:41] <mvo> elmo: yes
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[06:43] <Kamion> ogra: that's why it should be an explicit entry in the desktop seed, rather than pulled in by a dependency; that way you can just exclude it from edubuntu-desktop if that's the right thing to do
[06:44] <ogra> i'll wait for the final beta isos and see :)
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[06:45] <tkamppeter> mdz: foomatic-db was always on the CD, linuxprinting.org-ppds was not on the CD, and people complained about missing PPDs.
[06:45] <ogra> i386 says 699M on the cdimage website ... by experience that can go up to 702M before it breaks ...
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[06:45] <tkamppeter> linuxprinting.org-ppds is generated from the same source package as foomatic-db
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[06:47] <tkamppeter> I do not really know whether linuxprinting.org-ppds is in main or in universe, but for many PostScript printers it ships the manufacturer-supplied PPDs to make all the printer's functionality working. So it could be considered as a driver package.
[06:47] <mdz> ogra: it's broken when it says .OVERSIZED ;-)
[06:47] <ogra> haha
[06:47] <ogra> i'll regard that :)
[06:48] <mdz> tkamppeter: ok, so it is not a new package, but one which we have never shipped on the CD
[06:49] <ogra> and if its from foomatic-db source it likely has a MIR already
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[06:51] <Kamion> there's no problem promoting binaries from source that's already in main
[06:52] <Kamion> I've promoted linuxprinting.org-ppds; it'll appear in main when the next publisher run finishes, in about an hour
[06:54] <tkamppeter> What is a MIR?
[06:54] <tkamppeter> Thanks, Kamion, for promoting the PPDs to main.
[06:54] <ogra> tkamppeter, short for main inclusion report
[06:54] <Kamion> main inclusion report; see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMainInclusionRequirements
[06:55] <Kamion> formalisation of the earlier casual process that went "hmm, yeah, I guess we can/should support this one"
[06:55] <Kamion> tkamppeter: please take care not to restore the dependency of foomatic-db on linuxprinting.org-ppds, though
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[06:56] <Kamion> at the very least, not before beta
[06:57] <tkamppeter> My proposed foomatic-db with linuxprinting.org-ppds split does not introduce this dependency.
[06:58] <Kamion> ok, good
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[07:10] <neutrinomass> I hope this isn't offtopic: I've noticed a large number of access() system calls to check for the existence of /etc/ld.nohwcap.so, which doesn't exist. Although these aren't (according to strace anyway) time-consuming, couldn't they be avoided (given that one check is enough, and that it doesn't exist anyway) ? 
[07:11] <neutrinomass> Um, it's /etc/ld.so.nohwcap actually 
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[07:17] <doko_> Kamion: please really consider the python2.4 changes for the beta
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[07:27] <jdong> BenC: quick question poke
[07:27] <BenC> jdong: shoot
[07:27] <jdong> BenC: usb-storage, the max_sectors_128 blacklist, is that what unusual-devs is?
[07:28] <jdong> I think I got another device here that needs the 128 sector workaround
[07:28] <jdong> (read: I think I might be solving my bug report)
[07:29] <BenC> jdong: unusual-devs handles a lot of quirks, like maxsectors_128
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[07:29] <jdong> BenC: what advantage does the default 240 for maxsectors have over 128?
[07:29] <jdong> I've barely seen a performance difference between the two
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[07:31] <BenC> jdong: usually, not much
[07:31] <jdong> BenC: why do we go with 240 instead of 128 as the default then?
[07:31] <BenC> if the device falls into that category, then technically, there's difference :)
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[07:31] <BenC> jdong: for large high-speed USB devices, it gains performance
[07:32] <jdong> hmm, ok
[07:32] <jdong> well, I've got a usb device here that needs the max sectors 128 workaround
[07:33] <jdong> BenC: what info would you need in my bug report to add my device to the unusual-devs list
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[07:37] <BenC> jdong: lsusb -v output
[07:37] <jdong> BenC: will do, and I'll tack it on to that bug report, and let you get to that when you get your other stuff done :)
[07:38] <jdong> BenC: and would this kind of bugfix be suitable for backporting to dapper?
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[07:45] <BenC> jdong: yeah
[07:47] <yveslu> good evening, no news about this very very low hanging performance-fruit: :-) https://launchpad.net/products/fontconfig/+ticket/1773
[07:49] <thom> yveslu: it's long after upstream version freeze for edgy, fontconfig is right at the bottom of the desktop stack, there's no telling how much time and effort would be needed to integrate a new version
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[07:52] <rodarvus> yveslu: as thom said, unfortunately there is *no* chance fontconfig will be updated to 2.4 on edgy timeframe
[07:52] <yveslu> thom: ok, I see ur point... I can only mention that in sid the upgrade was seemless, as 2.4 is abi and api compatible to 2.3, thus no rebuilt of other packages which depend of fontconfig was necessary, maybe this information can be useful for edgy+1 for you guys :-)
[07:53] <jdong> BenC: I've uploaded my lsusb to bug 61235....
[07:53] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 61235 in linux-source-2.6.17 "USB mass storage stops working after a while" [Untriaged,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61235
[07:53] <rodarvus> yveslu: we understand, but fontconfig is a very basic package. thousands (literally) of packages depend on it, directly or indirectly
[07:53] <yveslu> and... thanks for ubuntu! nice evening!
[07:53] <rodarvus> *any* regression would be fatal
[07:54] <rodarvus> but you can rest assured edgy+1 will have it quite quickly  ;)
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[07:55] <yveslu> great :). at this place I have also to express all my respect to the ubuntu devs for their work. the pace of bugfixing and new feature-adding is astonishing!
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[08:09] <mvo> Mithrandir: I just uploaded a new gnome-app-install. mostly desktop file changes and stuff from the CommonCustomizations spec. I showed the actual code changes (~4 lines)  to you this afternoon
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[08:13] <Mithrandir> mvo: 'k.  
[08:14] <mvo> thanks
[08:15] <mdz> Mithrandir: the CD health check is pretty lengthy.  how many of those are still issues?
[08:18] <Mithrandir> mdz: the language packs were downloaded hours ago, I thought.  I think that fixes the kde-i18n ones too which leaves us with a couple of uninstallables.
[08:18] <mdz> Mithrandir: is the script set up to publish more up-to-date output somewhere?
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[08:19] <mdz> the latest one i have shows a whole slew of uninstallables
[08:19] <Mithrandir> mdz: the uninstallable is just a dump of http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/testing/edgy_probs.html, afaik
[08:19] <Mithrandir> mdz: I think the langpacks are either waiting for approval or something happened to the upload.
[08:20] <Mithrandir> cprov: you uploaded all the langpacks, didn't you?
[08:21] <cprov> Mithrandir: i did, this morning
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[08:21] <mdz> there are a couple of language-support uploads waiting for approval, but no langpacks
[08:23] <Mithrandir> mdz: seems to be in needs-build
[08:23] <Mithrandir> (at least language-pack-xh)
[08:24] <mdz> eek, 523 pending builds
[08:24] <Mithrandir> mdz: uh, the buildds are unhappy. NOT OK : <socket.error instance at 0x2aaab17c7680> (AUTO)
[08:24] <mdz> and zero in Building
[08:24] <Mithrandir> cprov: ^^ any idea about that?
[08:24] <mdz> cprov: help
[08:25] <elmo> I'll fix them
[08:25] <cprov> Mithrandir: mdz: I don't have login to the buildds.
[08:25] <cprov> elmo: ahh, you have, thanks ;)
[08:25] <elmo> cprov: don't be obtuse, you don't need a login
[08:26] <elmo> it's administered through the web interface
[08:26] <cprov> elmo: I'm assuming you already tried to to what you are enable to.
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[08:34] <mdz> Mithrandir: do you have access to check the output from the livefs builds and trigger new ones?
[08:34] <Mithrandir> mdz: yes.
[08:34] <Mithrandir> mdz: I can build new ones when *-desktop looks installable again.
[08:35] <mdz> ok, good
[08:35] <Mithrandir> assuming we get the right langpacks built before the hour, I can do it in about an hour, I think.
[08:36] <mdz> language packs are building now
[08:36] <mdz> thanks elmo, cprov
[08:36] <Keybuk> mdz: beta-blocker or not?  bug #62189
[08:36] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62189 in upstart "Typing Exit at Emergency Root Term does Nothing" [Untriaged,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62189
[08:40] <mdz> Keybuk: not a blocker but if it's low-risk to fix, I think it'd be worthwhile
[08:41] <Keybuk> yeah, it's an easy enough fix
[08:41] <tseng> Keybuk: do you have buildd powers?
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[08:42] <tseng> Keybuk: i know its a bad time but ive been trying to get infinity to clear beagle chroot problems and he is clearly not around
[08:42] <Keybuk> tseng: what do you mean by "clear beagle chroot" ?
[08:43] <tseng> Keybuk: build failure logged as "CHROOT PROBLEM"
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[08:43] <Keybuk> that implies that there's a chroot problem
[08:43] <Keybuk> E: Some index files failed to download, they have been ignored, or old ones used instead.
[08:43] <Keybuk> hmm
[08:43] <tseng> Failed to fetch http://ftpmaster.internal/ubuntu/dists/edgy/main/binary-powerpc/Packages.bz2  MD5Sum mismatch
[08:43] <Keybuk> Failed to fetch http://ftpmaster.internal/ubuntu/dists/edgy/main/binary-ia64/Packages.bz2  MD5Sum mismatch
[08:44] <Keybuk> yaeh
[08:44] <tseng> this was the problem.
[08:44] <Keybuk> LP bug that this is considered a chroot problem, I suspect
[08:44] <tseng> but its been stuck for some time
[08:44] <Keybuk> it may not be clearable
[08:44] <tseng> new upload?
[08:44] <Keybuk> I certainly can't
[08:44] <tseng> ok, thanks for looking
[08:45] <Keybuk> you may need a rubber duck
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[08:48] <elmo> I don't think you need a rubber duck, just someone with privs to reset builds - I don't know where that is in the web UI thought
[08:48] <Keybuk> I have the privs to reset builds
[08:48] <Keybuk> and I don't have a "Reset build" for that case
[08:48] <elmo> Keybuk: what UI?
[08:48] <elmo> URL
[08:48] <Keybuk> https://launchpad.net/+builds/+build/247137
[08:48] <Keybuk> Normally there's a "+ Reset Build" in the "Build details" portlet
[08:49] <elmo> I don't have one either
[08:49] <Keybuk> https://launchpad.net/+builds/+build/247137/+reset sez "Build can not be reset"
[08:49] <elmo> which means soyuz apparently won't let you in this case, which is pretty special
[08:49] <Keybuk> it may be that LP just cannot get out of this situation
[08:49] <ivoks> Keybuk: you needed me? i'm aware of libburn mistakes and sorry for that
[08:49] <elmo> I don't see why not, giving a build back is the same thing in any case
[08:49] <Keybuk> new package or chroot upload
[08:50] <tseng> new package is fine
[08:50] <elmo> (it deletes the build record [sic] )
[08:50] <Keybuk> ivoks: if you know the mistakes, and can fix them, then I don't need you ;)
[08:50] <Keybuk> elmo: indeed
[08:50] <ivoks> Keybuk: i will, tonight
[08:52] <elmo> filed as 62335
[08:52] <tseng> thanks elmo 
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[08:52] <bluefoxicy> Question.
[08:53] <bluefoxicy> LZO Layer FS has no real license statement, it just says something like "Copyrights reserved blah blah blah"
[08:53] <bluefoxicy> it uses liblzo2-2, which is licensed under the GPL
[08:53] <Keybuk> bluefoxicy: then LZO Layer FS has no licence
[08:53] <Mithrandir> bluefoxicy: then it's undistributable.
[08:54] <Keybuk> contact the original author to purchase a copyright licence from them
[08:54] <Keybuk> or prod them gently to include the licence they probably intended in their next tarball
[08:54] <bluefoxicy> does this thus require LZOlayerFS to be licensed under GPL?  (this is TrollTech's approach-- if you write a Qt app and try to not GPL it they try to sue you; but I think that's unenforcable because I can hypothetically produce a situation in which you would not be using the GPL'd Qt, which should knock this notion over in court)
[08:54] <Keybuk> bluefoxicy: varies depending on author opinion
[08:55] <Keybuk> contact authors of liblzo2-2 for their opinion
[08:55] <Keybuk> a safe option is assuming "yes, it requires that the linking program be GPL"
[08:55] <bluefoxicy> Keybuk:  Nods.  I'm actually about to send off an e-mail asking for GPL, LGPL, or BSD/MIT, since he doesn't seem to have any particular reason to want to hang onto the code
[08:56] <bluefoxicy> (I want to make /tmp lzo compressed eventually >:D)
[08:56] <bluefoxicy> (yes it works, I tried)
[08:56] <tseng> sounds less than useful
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[08:56] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  I crunched /tmp from 8.4 megs to 3.8 megs *shrug*
[08:57] <Keybuk> bluefoxicy: freak ;)
[08:57] <bluefoxicy> oh right, it links with zlib too, which is lgpl last I looked :)
[08:57] <Keybuk> zlib is not LGPL
[08:57] <bluefoxicy> it's not?
[08:57] <Keybuk> no
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[08:57] <Keybuk> it's vaguely BSD
[08:58] <jdub> bluefoxicy: /tmp is often assumed to be fast disk or ram; compressing it is not the best of ideas
[08:58] <bluefoxicy> oh right, it has its own license, forgot
[08:59] <bluefoxicy> jdub:  it's block based and pretty fast.  My /tmp seems to be full of stuff Firefox has downloaded for me; a couple pipe files; packages I'm working on; and the like
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[09:01] <Tonio_> Mithrandir: ping ?
[09:01] <keescook> wow.  nothing is quite as much fun as hunting down memory corruption bugs in a lisp interpreter.  ;)
[09:02] <Mithrandir> Tonio_: pong
[09:02] <micahcowan> keescook, :(   which one?
[09:02] <keescook> bug 62309
[09:02] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62309 in abuse-sdl "abuse segfaults if SIGINT is raised" [Low,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62309
[09:02] <keescook> abuse has a built-in lisp engine.  yeow
[09:02] <Tonio_> Mithrandir: just saw kdebase 0ubuntu27 needs approval to get in. the latest version of the patch updated resolves a bunch of critical issues in the media ioslave management
[09:03] <Tonio_> Mithrandir: any chance you approve it ?
[09:03] <bluefoxicy> jdub:  (where "pretty fast" ~= "1/6 the speed" but I'm getting 10 megs a second instead of 45 ;)
[09:03] <micahcowan> keescook, I seem to remember that. Yowza.
[09:03] <Mithrandir> Tonio_: I need to see a debdiff before I can answer that question.
[09:03] <doko_> Mithrandir, Kamion: the 8MB can be saved by dropping libgcj7-jar from the CD
[09:03] <Tonio_> Mithrandir: yes sure
[09:03] <Mithrandir> doko_: it's not needed any more?
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[09:04] <Mithrandir> doko_: java-gcj-compat seems to still depend on it?
[09:04] <doko_> Mithrandir: the only java application on the CD is OOo, which works fine without it.
[09:05] <Mithrandir> doko_: well, we can't drop it as long as java-gcj-compat pulls it back in.
[09:05] <doko_> yes, therefore my java-gcj-compat upload (which maybe not enough). what I need to do is to remove the java-gcj-compat dependencies from all *-java packages on the CD
[09:06] <Mithrandir> doko_: oh?  Why shouldn't, say, libhsqldb-java depend on java-gcj-compat any more?
[09:06] <Mithrandir> (or did I misunderstand you?
[09:06] <Mithrandir> )
[09:06] <jdong> uhh, is it just me, or is knot3 alternate i386 a bit oversized?
[09:06] <jdong> 702MB?
[09:06] <doko_> Mithrandir: yes, java-gcj-compat is uploaded, dropping the dependency. that's a bit ugly, because we have some dangling symlinks in java-gcj-compat, but works for OOo
[09:06] <Mithrandir> jdong: 700 MB CDs are slightly bigger than 700 MB.
[09:07] <jdong> Mithrandir: ok, I'll take your word for it
[09:08] <doko_> Mithrandir: because it's just a library, not an application. there was a discussion on debian-java to remove all these depencies for packages which just have a library.
[09:08] <doko_> Mithrandir: if you like it better, I could replace java-gcj-compat with gij-4.1 for these cases
[09:09] <Mithrandir> doko_: ok; can we wait with this new world order until after beta?  I'm fine with dropping the -jar dependency, but let's not shuffle all the java packages around.
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[09:09] <doko_> Mithrandir: fine with me, just tought in the case for problems with CD size
[09:10] <doko_> s/tought/thought/
[09:10] <doko_> Mithrandir: and please, really consider the uploaded python2.4 for the beta
[09:10] <Mithrandir> doko_: let's see how it works out size-wise first and go from there?
[09:10] <Mithrandir> doko_: do you have a debdiff somewhere?
[09:11] <Tonio_> Mithrandir: here is the debdiff http://paste.tonio.homelinux.org/17
[09:11] <doko_> Mithrandir: yes, already mentioned. chinstrap:~doko/python2.4
[09:12] <doko_> Mithrandir: the file p.diff are the upstream changes (the diff for the svn-updates diff is a bit unreadable)
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[09:14] <Mithrandir> Tonio_: Riddell is happy with this?  It looks ok to me, but I don't know the kdebase codebase.
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[09:14] <Mithrandir> doko_: are there any of the upstream fixes there we really want?  I don't see a point in the win32 fixes, for instance?
[09:17] <Tonio_> Mithrandir: yes Riddell asked me to upload this since he can't in dublin...
[09:17] <Mithrandir> Tonio_: ok; approved then.
[09:17] <Tonio_> Mithrandir: thanks
[09:17] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: can you approve kdebase 4:3.5.4-0ubuntu27, please?
[09:18] <mdz> jdong: the CD building scripts have a check for the appropriate size and output a .OVERSIZED file if it's too big
[09:19] <doko_> Mithrandir: it's harmless. it's inside "#ifdef MS_WINDOWS", we want all the other patches
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[09:47] <Amaranth> Oh damn, I just missed the deadline to request sponsorship for mountain view. :/
[09:49] <jdub> Keybuk: *headsmack* http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FCNewInit
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[09:52] <Amaranth> If I were to add myself to the list now would it be ignored?
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[10:00] <Keybuk> jdub: ?
[10:00] <Keybuk> oh, distrowatch and their UP TO THE MINUTE reporting
[10:00] <Keybuk> note the URL of the mail
[10:00] <Keybuk> https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2005-June/msg01390.html
[10:00] <jdub> ha ha
[10:01] <jdub> updated last month, too
[10:01] <jdub> to note upstart
[10:01] <Keybuk> yeah, the update last month was just adding a link to upstart as a consideration
[10:01] <jdub> and that's it
[10:01] <jdub> worth replying on sounder to mention that
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[10:03] <Keybuk> yeah, will do
[10:03] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: I don't see a kdebase to approve
[10:05] <ajmitch> morning
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[10:12] <bluefoxicy> /dev/loop0: [f6a0] :-1208031192 () offset -1208141016, xor encryption  <-- what the crap is this?
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[10:14] <Keybuk> sfllaw: which ubuntu-devel-announce post do you want approved?
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[10:19] <sfllaw> Keybuk: Yeah.  My e-mail client got confused.
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[10:23] <Tonio_> pitti: just pinging for https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportDigikam
[10:23] <Tonio_> pitti: would be nice if beta or RC could be shiped with digikam to get feedback :)
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[10:26] <Keybuk> Tonio_: beta freeze has already passed
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[10:28] <bluefoxicy> holy shit
[10:28] <bluefoxicy> I can't believe that worked.
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[10:32] <Tonio_> Keybuk: okay, so let's focus on it in rc :)
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[10:40] <ajmitch> Keybuk: fwiw, I'm trying to hack in selinux support into upstart - putting it in init/main.c doesn't really feel like the right place for it, where do you suggest?
[10:42] <Mithrandir> mdz: the uninstallable count seems to be improving at about 200 packages an hour, but it's getting late here, so I'll be off for a bit of sleep for a fresh start tomorrow rather than sitting up all night.
[10:42] <bluefoxicy> (security/selinux.c and then hook into other places...?)
[10:43] <ajmitch> bluefoxicy: in upstart..
[10:43] <Keybuk> ajmitch: what kind of support does selinux need?
[10:44] <bluefoxicy> ajmitch:  I heard, I was making a suggestion, i.e. keep the support functions separated out and call them from some other code
[10:44] <ajmitch> just loading the policy
[10:44] <ajmitch> the sysvinit patch was basically one load_policy function & the makefile hacks to link to the lib
=== bluefoxicy shrugs and goes back to doing unuseful but amusing things
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[10:44] <Keybuk> what does the policy do?
[10:44] <Keybuk> and what effect does loading the policy have?
[10:45] <ajmitch> loading the policy puts it into the kernel & affects all programs subsequently executed, all file accesses, etc
[10:45] <ajmitch> it was done in sysvinit so that the programs init spawns run with the right security context
[10:46] <Keybuk> could it not be loaded by a separate program that init invokves?
[10:46] <Keybuk> or does it have to be loaded by process #1 ?
[10:47] <ajmitch> afaik it should be loaded by init, but I'll check whether it's possible to set the context of init separately
[10:47] <Keybuk> it sounds like it's appropriate to do it in init/main.c; probably after the console has been reset, but before the signals are established?
[10:47] <Keybuk> if it's more than one function call, create a static function in that file
[10:48] <ajmitch> it's 1 static function in there at the moment
[10:48] <ajmitch> porting from the sysvinit patch
[10:48] <Keybuk> what kind of action does init need to take wrt to processes spawned?
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[10:48] <ajmitch> nothing new, the kernel handles everything after that
[10:48] <Keybuk> how come the kernel doesn't handle init then?
[10:48] <ajmitch> if selinux support isn't enabled in the kernel, it should silently skip loading policy
[10:49] <ajmitch> policy has to be loaded from userspace somehow
[10:49] <Keybuk> would initramfs not be a suitable place to do that?
[10:49] <Keybuk> how does the policy get updated when changed?
[10:50] <ajmitch> when changed, it gets reloaded via the /selinux interface, usually by libselinux
[10:50] <Keybuk> ok, so it's just an initial "kick the kernel" kind of thing?
[10:50] <ajmitch> pretty much
[10:51] <Keybuk> what does one do if loading the policy fails?
[10:51] <ajmitch> at the moment it throws up warnings, no more
[10:51] <Keybuk> what should one do?
[10:51] <crimsun> lwin 20
[10:51] <crimsun> err, sorry
=== Keybuk pushes crimsun's l over
[10:52] <ajmitch> preferably the system would keep booting, it would be good for that behaviour to be selectable
[10:52] <ajmitch> if initramfs is a better place than upstart, I'm all for it
[10:53] <Keybuk> well, initramfs is the kernel/userspace interface
[10:53] <Keybuk> so it seems logical to do it there
[10:54] <zul> later
[10:54] <Keybuk> perhaps in an init-bottom script where the root filesystem is accessible
[10:54] <ajmitch> bye zul 
[10:54] <Keybuk> doing it in init itself is a second-best option (as I understand the problem, I may not understand it fully)
[10:54] <Keybuk> just a thought also, what happens when init is re-exec'd ?
[10:54] <Keybuk> should the policy be reloaded or not?
[10:54] <ajmitch> no, policy would usually stay constant, reloading it wouldn't harm anything though
[10:55] <Keybuk> you'd probably want a if (! restart) in there
[10:56] <ajmitch> ok
=== ajmitch has to run off to work, will come back to it sometime later 
[10:56] <ajmitch> thanks for that
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[11:57] <BenC> is upload queue for edgy on lockdown?
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[11:58] <BenC> I just uploaded linux-source-2.6.17 10.24, and I need it pushed through (along with lrm and linux-meta behind it for ABI bump)
[11:59] <pitti> BenC: yes, it's locked; you need an archive master to wave it through
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[11:59] <jdong> BenC: you sure you don't want to help my laziness by sneaking in the unusual-devs entry? ;-)
[12:00] <BenC> jdong: I'll get it in, but I need this jmicron and amd64-agp fix in asap
[12:01] <jdong> mmmkay :)
[12:01] <BenC> pitti: any suggestions on who to ping?
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[12:01] <BenC> jdong: main reason being that amd64-agp fix caused an abi bump, but your stuff wont, so it'll be easier after this
[12:02] <jdong> k