[12:31] <LaserJock> Is somebody around that feels like helping me debug a networking problem (I'm not sure if it's a bug or just a screwy config)
[12:47] <zul> hey
[12:48] <Lathiat> LaserJock: whats the problem?
[12:48] <LaserJock> Lathiat: -motu
[12:56] <ajmitch> hey zul 
[01:02] <mdz> BenC: unless it's a showstopper for the beta, it should wait until after
[01:02] <mdz> the queue is in manual mode in order to keep the churn down so we can build and test CDs
[01:36] <bddebian> Howdy
[02:14] <BenC> mdz: The amd64-agp fix is a showstopper
[02:14] <BenC> mdz: And I need as many testers for the JMicron as possible too
[02:15] <BenC> mdz: Do you want me to push the bugs to ubuntu-6.10-beta?
[02:16] <BenC> mdz: JMicron users (read, most Core 2 Duo users) will get an oops on boot, and not even be able to use the CD's
[02:20] <BenC> mdz: The changelog is only three items btw, the two I mentioned, and enabling -generic udeb's on i386 (Kamion's request)
[02:45] <imbrandon> BenC, afaik jdong_ runs a coreduo edgy, might poke him to test
[02:46] <imbrandon> does it affect the am2 amdx2 proc too or just the intel ones ?
[02:46] <rodarvus> I run edgy on a core duo T2300, but edgy always worked there for me. (dapper needs 'noacpi', though)
[02:47] <rodarvus> BenC: this is the laptop I showed you at the developers sprint in Wiesbaden
[02:49] <mjg59> rodarvus: Core 2, not core duo
[02:51] <rodarvus> oh, I've read it wrong, disregard that, please
[02:58] <BenC> not core duo
[02:58] <BenC> core 2 duo
[02:58] <BenC> big difference
[06:07] <bluefoxicy> uh
[06:08] <bluefoxicy> If I suggested semi-cloning the Windows XP Pro Security tab to replace Permissions, and extending the interface to full POSIX ACL (multiple users, multiple groups) support, would anybody freak and try to burn me as a heathen?
[06:08] <Fujitsu> bluefoxicy, no, as that's in the GNOME bugtracker as of about 3 years ago.
[06:08] <Fujitsu> eiciel does a similar thing already, install that package.
[06:08] <bluefoxicy> Fujitsu:  3 years wow
[06:08] <bluefoxicy> they're slow as shit :|
[06:09] <Fujitsu> 2 or 3 years.
[06:09] <bluefoxicy> I've used eiciel, about 8 months ago; it does no where near the same thing.
[06:09] <bluefoxicy> well, it lets you do posix acl access; just in ugly mode
[06:11] <bluefoxicy> (wtf is participants?)
[06:25] <fabbione> morning
[06:25] <ajmitch> hi fabbione 
[07:03] <bluefoxicy> Fujitsu:  got a bug number?
[07:03] <Fujitsu> bluefoxicy, no, but I saw it ages ago.
[07:05] <Fujitsu> Gnoem #62817.
[07:05] <Fujitsu> 5 years.
[07:05] <Fujitsu> *Gnome #62817
[07:06] <bluefoxicy> you have an advantage over me I see (I couldn't find the damn thing)
[07:06] <Fujitsu> I searched for `nautilus eiciel'
[07:06] <bluefoxicy> ah, that's for posix ACLs
[07:06] <Ubugtu> Gnome bug 62817 in View as (Icons or List) "Support for POSIX ACLs" [Enhancement,New]  http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=62817
[07:07] <Fujitsu> Thanks Ubugtu.... How very slow.
[07:07] <bluefoxicy> Fujitsu:  I think I can justify opening another bug and using that and 40897 (which is implemented, never closed) as references
[07:07] <Fujitsu> Malone 40897?
[07:07] <bluefoxicy> mine is more "Change the interface" than "implement POSIX ACLs" although the two do roll straight together
[07:07] <bluefoxicy> GNOME 40897
[07:07] <Fujitsu> Ah, OK.
[07:08] <bluefoxicy> which describes the current Permissions tab
[07:08] <bluefoxicy> I remember when i first saw that, I was like, "Holy shit!  They made it take 15 times longer to set permissions!"
[07:08] <bluefoxicy> (because I could hit all the right check boxes in under a second, versus about 3-5 seconds of dropdowns and figuring out wtf...)
[07:08] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40897 in compiz "Gnome-Panel cannot get keyboard-focus" [Medium,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40897
[07:08] <Fujitsu> bluefoxicy, the new one is more intuitive, I think.
[07:08] <bluefoxicy> I find that debatable
[07:09] <bluefoxicy> you have to now hope a user can figure out what "read" "read and write" and this strange "execute" thing do
[07:09] <Fujitsu> Same as you did befoe.
[07:09] <bluefoxicy> versus a very symmetric "these three types of people" "these three permissions"
[07:10] <bluefoxicy> eh.. I dunno. I find isolating the permissions from each other easier to chew ("read and write"?)
[07:10] <Ubugtu> Gnome bug 40897 in Backgrounds Emblems and Themes "First Time Preferences "Wizard"" [Normal,Verified: fixed]  http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=40897
[07:10] <Fujitsu> What is up with Ubugtu at the moment!?
[07:10] <bluefoxicy> the file dialog is debatable
[07:10] <bluefoxicy> the folder dialog is confusing as shit, although its original form wasn't much better because users can't intuit what "read" "write" "execute" mean for folders
[07:11] <bluefoxicy> list files, access files, create and delete files?
[07:11] <bluefoxicy> and only one at a time
[07:11] <bluefoxicy> a user's gotta figure out they imply each other... and I've HAD setups where they don't (--x folders, you can traverse but not read or write)
[07:11] <Fujitsu> That's a little debatable, yes.
[07:12] <bluefoxicy> http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/5157/mocksecuritydirkn4.png
[07:12] <bluefoxicy> ACLs and a prettier interface in the same swing?
[07:13] <bluefoxicy> (will somebody please explain to me what in the heck "participants" are?)
[07:13] <Fujitsu> Unified term for users and groups, I suppose.
[07:13] <Fujitsu> Like in Windows, you have security `principals'.
[07:14] <bluefoxicy> http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/1421/mocksecurityof6.png  Debatable, a little empty...
[07:14] <bluefoxicy> Eicle has Access Control List ({User/Group}    [X]  [X]  [X] ) and then below it 'Participants" that seem to be me and "nobody"
[07:14] <bluefoxicy> also system participants, which is every other user on the machine
[07:15] <bluefoxicy> (yeah, I ripped chunks out of Eicle for the mock-ups)
[07:16] <Fujitsu> I like the idea of having a separate listbox with non-participating users/groups, so you can quickly and easily see who has permissions.
[07:17] <bluefoxicy> what are non-participating users/groups
[07:19] <bluefoxicy> http://blogs.sun.com/alvaro/resource/acl.png  whoa
[07:19] <bluefoxicy> this is where mainline nautilus is going?  o_o
[07:19] <Fujitsu> ie. users/groups which have no permissions set.
[07:20] <bluefoxicy> oh
[07:30] <Mithrandir> Riddell: kmplayer-doc needs demotion to universe or kmplayer needs promotion to universe.  Which of those is true?
[07:32] <Fujitsu> Mithrandir, promotion to main, you mean?
[07:32] <Mithrandir> Fujitsu: yeah.
[07:32] <Mithrandir> it's a bit early for me still. :-P
[07:34] <Mithrandir> doko__: libgtk-java has dependencies which aren't in main -- should it be demoted?  (It's not seeded and has no reverse deps)
[07:35] <Mithrandir> Riddell: if you could poke at why koffice is uninstallable on ppc, that'd be good.
[07:48] <Kagou> morning
[07:54] <Mithrandir> ajmitch: you're doing mono stuff, aren't you?
[08:20] <keebler> Does anyone know where I can obtain the new 256bit supporting usplash?
[08:21] <bluefoxicy> huh wtf.
[08:21] <bluefoxicy> seahorse starts seahorse-daemon
[08:21] <bluefoxicy> it then claims a "non-supported" passphrase caching daemon is running.... seahorse-daemon being it.
[08:23] <imbrandon> keebler, you mean 256 color ? umm its in edgy
[08:24] <keebler> yeah.. 
[08:24] <keebler> Would there be a way to adapt it to daper?
[08:25] <imbrandon> i'm sure one COULD if they had the time and was willing too, along with the artwork ( the old files wont work ) but it would take some doing and frankly there is more important things to be done for release
[08:26] <imbrandon> it would take alot of backporting afaik for svgalib etc etc etc, its not simple
[08:26] <keebler> Ok. Thats what I wanted to hear. 
[08:26] <keebler> joejaxx you read that. :)
[08:26] <pitti> Good morning
[08:27] <imbrandon> moins pitti
[08:27] <keebler> morning
[08:27] <imbrandon> Mithrandir, ping
[08:27] <Mithrandir> imbrandon: hi
[08:28] <imbrandon> heya koffice isnt installable on ppc becouse of ruby
[08:28] <imbrandon> ruby ftbs on ppc iirc 
[08:28] <Mithrandir> imbrandon: oh, yeah, I know.
[08:28] <Mithrandir> that still isn't fixed?
[08:28] <imbrandon> nope not afaik
[08:28] <imbrandon> benc was looking at it some days ago ( after the meeting )
[08:28] <Hobbsee> Riddell: and BenC i think were looking at it
[08:29] <imbrandon> but i dont think it got fixed
[08:29] <Mithrandir> grr, ok.
[08:30] <imbrandon> actualy i think what they came up with is it was something on the buildd's becouse it buildt localy
[08:30] <imbrandon> for them , if i rember right ( from a log in here )
[08:30] <imbrandon> Mithrandir, ^^
[08:31] <Mithrandir> imbrandon: Riddell could reproduce the problem on one of the porter machines, iirc.
[08:32] <imbrandon> yea it was something like that ( without going back and looking )
[08:32] <imbrandon> he should be arround shortly ( not sure what the hours at akademy are )
[08:33] <pitti> hi imbrandon 
[08:34] <pitti> hey Hobbsee 
[08:35] <imbrandon> heya pitti, when/if you get some time today can you look at the MIR for libmtp ( i'd like to build amarok with it after the freeze )
[08:35] <Mithrandir> is libmono-firebirdsql1.7-cil waiting for a MIR for firebird or something else?
[08:37] <imbrandon> pitti, wow , actualy scratch that , libmtp seems to still be in NEW ( unless you can look at it from there )
[08:37] <imbrandon> i thought it had gotten past that 
[08:39] <pitti> imbrandon: no, I cannot see the NEW queue
[08:40] <imbrandon> pitti, ok disregard then, sorry , i'll have to wait for Kamion or someone to process it
[08:40] <Mithrandir> pitti: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+queue
[08:41] <Mithrandir> imbrandon: libmtp is in binary-NEW so it'll be done later today.
[08:41] <imbrandon> Mithrandir, ahh ok
[08:43] <pitti> Mithrandir: well, sure, I can see what's in the queue, but I cannot download the packages from there, can I?
[08:43] <Mithrandir> pitti: no, you can't.  (naturally)
[08:43] <Mithrandir> pitti: I thought you meant you couldn't see the queue at all
[08:44] <imbrandon> ;)
[08:55] <stub> Launchpad will be going down in 15 minutes for a regular code update. Estimated down time is one hour. This is longer than usual to perform some extra database maintenance.
[08:55] <lastnode> thanks stub 
[08:55] <Fujitsu> Thanks for the warning.
[08:56] <bluefoxicy> bluefox@icebox:~$ echo $TMP
[08:56] <bluefoxicy> /tmp/user/1000
[08:57] <bluefoxicy> So far so good.
[08:57] <bluefoxicy> although ssh-* owned by me is in /tmp
[09:24] <dholbach> good morning
[10:03] <janimo> can someone let the recent  xubuntu-artwork upload through? thanks
[10:04] <fabbione> tfheen: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/lvm-common.debdiff and http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/mdadm.debdiff
[10:04] <fabbione> tfheen: i need permission to upload.
[10:04] <fabbione> mdadm is beta stuff..
[10:04] <fabbione> the lvm is to be consistent
[10:04] <tfheen> fabbione: 1800 is actually 30 minutes, not 15. :-P
[10:05] <fabbione> tfheen: it's not in seconds
[10:05] <fabbione> it's in 1/10 oif secs
[10:05] <fabbione> sleep 0.1 <-
[10:05] <fabbione> ;)
[10:05] <tfheen> then your changelog makes even less sense
[10:05] <tfheen> since 1800*0.1s = 180s = 3 minutes
[10:05] <fabbione> yes
[10:05] <fabbione> but i am using a sleep 0.5 for lvm
[10:05] <tfheen> or your diff is reversed
[10:06] <tfheen> ah, ok
[10:06] <fabbione> pvscan hogs CPU and I/O
[10:06] <fabbione> taking away time to the kernel to let the device to appear
[10:06] <fabbione> so i prefer to sacrifice 0.5 seconds
[10:06] <ajmitch> tfheen: I don't know of anyone using libmono-firebirdsql1.7-cil, it'd require promotion of firebird2 source - I'd say demote, but slomo_ or tseng may have some comments
[10:06] <fabbione> than waiting perhpas 2 for the kernel
[10:15] <tfheen> fabbione: have you tested the patch on raid-but-not-lvm systems too?
[10:16] <fabbione> tfheen: no, but that makes no difference from a raid point of view. The devices still need to show up for raid to run
[10:16] <fabbione> tfheen: note that the mdadm code has no calls to lvm whatsoever
[10:16] <tfheen> fabbione: ok, approved.
[10:16] <fabbione> tfheen: ok thanks.
[10:17] <fabbione> both of them or just mdadm?
[10:17] <tfheen> lvm doesn't look beta-critical.
[10:17] <tfheen> it's nice to have, but not necessary, agreed?
[10:17] <fabbione> tfheen: no, it's not beta critical. It might be very annoying to wait 15 minutes to get prompted that we can't find lvm volumes tho :)
[10:17] <fabbione> but it can wait
[10:18] <tfheen> thanks.
[10:18] <tfheen> afk for a little bit while I get vawad back up
[10:20] <janimo> tfheen: can you approve xubuntu-artwork as well? Only usplash images have changed. thanks
[10:25] <pitti> hi pygi 
[10:25] <pygi> hello pitti :)
[10:56] <doko_> pitti: java ping
[10:57] <pitti> doko_: pong?
[10:57] <doko_> pitti: your libxml-commons-resolver1.1-java sync
[10:58] <doko_> pitti b-d's: libjaxp1.3-java are missing completely, xerces-j is in universe
[10:59] <pitti> doko_: whoops, sorry. Will fix
[11:01] <doko_> pitti: libjaxp1.3-java is in unstable, maybe a UVF is enough
[11:02] <doko_> ... exception
[11:02] <pitti> doko_: I'll revert it to the dependencies as we had in the dapper version, that should be fine?
[11:04] <doko_> pitti: yes
[11:06] <sivang> morning
[11:06] <pitti> hi sivang
[11:08] <pygi> sivang: !!! morning !!!
[11:08] <sivang> hi pygi 
[11:08] <pygi> you back from vacation?
[11:08] <sivang> pygi: yep
[11:08] <pygi> nice :)
[11:17] <sivang> pygi: was great, UK is a very very cool place. (although it was quite hot when we were there)
[11:17] <pygi> sivang: nice :)
[11:19] <pygi> sivang: we also have libburn in repos :)
[11:20] <sivang> pygi: oh goody
[11:26] <pitti> tfheen: ok to upload a new libxml-commons-resolver1.1-java with b-dep changes to fix FTBFS?
[11:33] <tfheen> janimo: yeah, that's fine.
[11:34] <tfheen> pitti: approved
[11:34] <pitti> tfheen: alright, uploaded
[11:34] <pitti> doko_: thanks for spotting
[11:35] <doko_> pitti: just anastacia output wanting to promote classpath & co
[12:03] <tkamppeter> Now I have worked a lot with Launchpads bug tracker, but one thing I did not find out yet:
[12:04] <tfheen> Kamion: is there a kernel waiting to be accepted?
[12:04] <tkamppeter> How does one change the "Importance" of a bug? It is never a changeable field for me.
[12:04] <tkamppeter> Do I need special permissions for that?
[12:04] <tfheen> tkamppeter: you're probably not a member of the right group.  IIRC, only ubuntu members can do it.
[12:05] <dholbach> tkamppeter: I add you to the 'ubuntu-qa' team - just a sec
[12:06] <dholbach> tkamppeter: done - please reload the page see if it works now.
[12:06] <Fujitsu> tfheen, it's ubuntu-qa that can do that.
[12:06] <Fujitsu> (which ubuntu-{,core-}dev is a member of)
[12:06] <tkamppeter> Thanks, now I can change the importance of bug 49111 ...
[12:06] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 49111 in gs-gpl "Printing from evolution into an HP Deskjet 3650 completely hang the printer" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/49111
[12:06] <dholbach> tkamppeter: excellent.
[12:07] <tkamppeter> ... and of the other bugs, too.
[12:07] <doko_> tfheen: do you know why libgtk-java should be in main? at least it's listed for universe at the moment
[12:08] <tfheen> doko_: it might have been a dependency of something in the past?
[12:08] <doko_> tfheen: no, I can't think of anything
[12:09] <tkamppeter> And I can assign Milestones now, but there is no Edgy.
[12:09] <tfheen> doko_: strange, then.  Do we want it in main?
[12:09] <tfheen> tkamppeter: ubuntu-6.10
[12:09] <tfheen> (or -beta)
[12:09] <doko_> tfheen: no
[12:10] <tkamppeter> Thanks.
[12:10] <doko_> tfheen: please lets followup on python2.4 from yesterday
[12:10] <tfheen> doko_: as I said yesterday, I'm reluctant to take it, it doesn't seem beta-critical?
[12:12] <doko_> tfheen: if you consider a build without any patches as fine for the beta, fine; I'd like to see it fixed sooner than later, even in the beta.
[12:13] <tfheen> doko_: rather than argue, can you point me at any beta-critical bugs it fixes?  If not, I don't think it's appropriate for beta.  We're too close to release to just include patches because they might be useful.
[12:14] <tfheen> .. or fix bugs or whatever.
[12:15] <doko_> tfheen: I did point you to the bugs yesterday, here again
[12:15] <doko_> - Overflow checking code in integer division ran afoul of new gcc
[12:15] <doko_> - Patch #1541585: fix buffer overrun when performing repr() on
[12:15] <doko_>    a unicode string in a build with wide unicode (UCS-4) support.
[12:16] <pitti> ^ (security relevant, FYI)
[12:16] <dholbach> stub: some weeks ago you added a telepathy project - could you add a galago project too?
[12:16] <stub> dholbach: You the owner of that too?
[12:17] <doko_> tfheen: - doesn't look in /usr/share/locale-langpack for translations anymore
[12:17] <dholbach> stub: sounds good - I'm in contact with the upstream guy, so if he intended to change things, he'll be happy to route it through me
[12:17] <ogra-thin> Sep 26 11:56:43 in-target: Setting up cupsys-driver-gutenprint (5.0.0-2ubuntu1) ...
[12:17] <ogra-thin> Sep 26 11:56:45 in-target: can't close cups-genppd pipe:  at /usr/sbin/cups-genppdconfig.5.0 line 418.
[12:17] <ogra-thin> Sep 26 11:56:45 in-target: dpkg: error processing cupsys-driver-gutenprint (--configure):
[12:17] <ogra-thin> Sep 26 11:56:45 in-target:  subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 1
[12:17] <ogra-thin> pitti, tkamppeter ^^^^ known ?
[12:18] <pitti> not to me
[12:18] <Kamion> tfheen: there's a kernel there, yes. want it waved through?
[12:18] <ogra-thin> pitti: also i noticed the gstreamer autosink doesnt work if i log in on the server first, log out again and re-login on a thin client 
[12:19] <tfheen> Kamion: can you pastebin the changelog somewhere?  I think I want it through, but eyeballing changelogs is always good
[12:19] <ogra-thin> huh ?
[12:19] <ogra-thin> pitti: i also noticed the gstreamer autosink doesnt work if i log in on the server first, log out again and re-login on a thin client 
[12:19] <pitti> ogra-thin: can we track down the autosink thing after beta together?
[12:19] <ogra-thin> yep
[12:19] <pitti> ogra-thin: twice? :)
[12:19] <tkamppeter> ogra-thin, No, I could install gutenprint without any problems on my Edgy, and I did not modify anything in the post-inst script.
[12:19] <ogra-thin> seems its only run on first login and keeps the setting
[12:20] <ogra-thin> pitti: xchat-gmone is sooo weird :)
[12:20] <ogra-thin> *gnome too
[12:20] <ogra-thin> tkamppeter: probably it behaves differntly in the installer ?
[12:21] <Kamion> tfheen: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/24866
[12:21] <stub> dholbach: https://launchpad.net/projects/galago/
[12:21] <tkamppeter> pitti, WDYT about patching CUPS to use the Error Policy "Retry Job" by default, to fix bug 41313?
[12:21] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 41313 in cupsys "printer always goes to pause and cannot be resumed" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41313
[12:21] <dholbach> stub: thanks a lot!
[12:21] <ogra-thin> tkamppeter: or i'm missing a dependency in edubuntu either of these two could cause it
[12:22] <tkamppeter> ogra-thin, yes I did not try during installation
[12:22] <pitti> tkamppeter: is that fixed upstream?
[12:22] <pitti> tkamppeter: (btw, I plan to upgrade edgy's cups to 1.2.4 after beta, we are only missing 8 uncritical patches)
[12:23] <tkamppeter> pitt, CUPS has upstream the old "Stop Queue" error policy, as Mike Sweet is more looking at enterprise environments (who pay him).
[12:23] <pitti> tkamppeter: for 41313, if there's a safe patch with upstream blessing, sure
[12:24] <tkamppeter> In Mandriva I have printerdrake as default printer setup tool, there I do not patch CUPS, I simply let printerdrake set an appropriate default.
[12:24] <tfheen> Kamion: kernel> approved.
[12:24] <tkamppeter> But here in Ubuntu we have only this unmaintained gnome-cups-manager, should we really do changes, esp. add functionality there?
[12:25] <fabbione> Kamion: are you uploading a kernel???
[12:25] <tfheen> fabbione: no, he's approving one.
[12:25] <fabbione> tfheen: ah ok
[12:25] <pitti> tkamppeter: BTW, I agree that it is a very annoying bug that we shuold fix
[12:25] <pitti> tkamppeter: is that simply a matter of a default configuration change?
[12:26] <tkamppeter> I think, changing a default for making a distro more end-user friendly is not dangerous.
[12:26] <pitti> tkamppeter: depends on what the change is
[12:26] <pitti> tkamppeter: I agree
[12:26] <tfheen> dholbach: you've done ubuntu-docs updates in the past; could you do one now as well?  Make sure it doesn't say 6.06 and dapper, please.
[12:26] <pitti> tkamppeter: I just don't know what we have to do to fix this - patch or conf change?
[12:26] <dholbach> tfheen: i did one for doc freeze
[12:26] <tkamppeter> CUPS must choose a certain error policy internally if the user does not supply any, currently it is "Stop Queue".
[12:27] <dholbach> tfheen: it shouldn't have changed much
[12:27] <tkamppeter> Probably this choice is made in a .h file somewhere in CUPS.
[12:27] <tfheen> dholbach: my system still says "6.06" and "dapper". I hope that's changed.
[12:27] <pitti> tkamppeter: ah, it must be configured in printers.conf?
[12:27] <dholbach> tfheen: ok, i'll check
[12:27] <pitti> tkamppeter: ok; so the default is changed with a patch, and printers.conf could override it, if desired?
[12:27] <Fujitsu> Oh almighty release manager (aka. tfheen)... At what time on the 28th does universe drop below 0 degrees celsius?
[12:27] <tkamppeter> Yes, when a queue is created, it gets set in printers.conf.
[12:28] <dholbach> Fujitsu: it won't drop below 0
[12:28] <pitti> tkamppeter: I agree that hacking g-c-m would both be much more intrusive and pretty pointless
[12:28] <tfheen> Fujitsu: heh; I'm aiming for something like 1400 UTC or so, but please don't quote me on that.
[12:28] <Fujitsu> tfheen, OK.
[12:28] <dholbach> Fujitsu: there will be still bug fixes, etc
[12:28] <dholbach> and exceptions of course
[12:29] <pitti> tkamppeter: if you happen to know the exact know we have to turn, can you please add a comment to the bug?
[12:29] <Fujitsu> dholbach, of course, but it's UniverseFreeze.
[12:29] <pitti> tkamppeter: I mark it in a way that I'll fix it post-beta
[12:29] <tkamppeter> But if you enter "lpadmin -p x -E -v /dev/usb/lp0 -P <my-manufacturers-ppd>" a queue is created with "Stop Queue" policy.
[12:29] <dholbach> "universe freeze exceptionS" :-p
[12:29] <tfheen> mvo: update-manager apparently has "edgy" in it; can you get that changed to "6.10 beta", please?
[12:29] <ogra-thin> Fujitsu: we usually pick the start of teh developer meeting as freeze point
[12:30] <Fujitsu> ogra-thin, has a meeting been announced this week?
[12:30] <tfheen> mvo: synaptic seems to say "edgy" as well, please make that "6.10 beta"
[12:30] <tkamppeter> Thanks, pitti.
[12:31] <ogra-thin> Fujitsu: its every thursday ...
[12:31] <Fujitsu> ogra-thin, but it hasn't been announced yet :P
[12:31] <tkamppeter> ogra-thin, the post-inst script of the Gutenprint CUPS drivers package is only for updating the PPD files of installed print queues.
[12:32] <tkamppeter> Can the installer do updates? Or does it only install into a virgin partition? Can print queues exist during installation?
[12:32] <ogra-thin> tkamppeter: then it should probably do a no-op in d-i
[12:33] <ogra-thin> there are no print queues in a default install, dunno if expert offers something like that, but i doubt it
[12:33] <tkamppeter> Perhaps it should have some "if" around the updating command or it should simply send error messages to /dev/null and then do "exit 0".
[12:33] <Kamion> tkamppeter: no, yes, no
[12:34] <pitti> tkamppeter: definitively not in the alternate install; I'm not sure whether print queues defined in the live system are retained in the ubiquity installed system
[12:34] <Kamion> updates are the job of the package management system, not the installer
[12:34] <Kamion> pitti: they aren't
[12:34] <pitti> Kamion: thanks
[12:34] <Kamion> they could be, but it seems like a rather exotic thing to preserve
[12:34] <pitti> no, I don't think they should
[12:35] <tkamppeter> pitti, on the Mandriva One live CDs all config including print queues is conserved. I do not know but it would be great if Ubuntu live installers would do that, too.
[12:36] <pitti> well, depends on how we consider the live CD - as throwaway playground or as a means to preconfigure your install
[12:36] <tfheen> we copy a little bit, but most changes are not copied.
[12:36] <tfheen> that's by design, really.
[12:36] <pitti> currently we do the former (no user files, no user configuration, etc.)
[12:36] <Kamion> we intentionally chose to copy the read-only filesystem on the CD, not the live session, because otherwise the result is difficult to support
[12:37] <Kamion> I'm pretty set on that; however, it is possible to add individual items of configuration to copy over
[12:37] <Kamion> please file a wishlist bug on ubiquity with a rationale to get me to do that
[12:37] <tkamppeter> I think the Mandriva CDs run the live system in UnionFS, the installer then partions the hard disk, mounts the partitions and copies the whole UnionFS, after that it only sets the boot sector and exits.
[12:37] <Kamion> (and preferably with instructions on what files to grab; I'm not necessarily familiar with every bit of the system)
[12:37] <ogra-thin> btw apart from that cupsys breakage edubuntu seems beta ready :)
[12:37] <Kamion> tkamppeter: we considered that option, but we intentionally chose not to do that
[12:38] <Kamion> (we do run the live system in unionfs - we just don't copy the unionfs)
[12:38] <tseng> tfheen: ajmitch no worries here over libmono-firebirdsql1.7-cil
[12:38] <tfheen> tseng: what does that mean?  I want the uninstallable list to be empty on thursday.
[12:38] <tseng> tfheen: demote
[12:40] <tfheen> tseng: ok, thanks
[12:40] <tfheen> tseng: why is it even in main?  Nothing in main depends on it
[12:41] <Kamion> demoted
[12:41] <Kamion> I think we may have stuck all of mono in main when it was split out
[12:41] <Kamion> since I didn't know which bits were needed
[12:41] <tfheen> ok
[12:42] <Kamion>  o libmono-bytefx0.7.6.1-cil libmono-bytefx0.7.6.2-cil libmono-c5-1.0-cil libmono-cairo2.0-cil libmono-cscompmgd7.0-cil libmono-cscompmgd8.0-cil libmono-firebirdsql1.7-cil libmono-ldap1.0-cil libmono-ldap2.0-cil libmono-microsoft7.0-cil libmono-microsoft8.0-cil libmono-npgsql1.0-cil libmono-npgsql2.0-cil libmono-oracle1.0-cil libmono-oracle2.0-cil libmono-relaxng2.0-cil libmono-sharpzip2.6-cil libmono-sqlite2.0-cil libm
[12:42] <Kamion> is there a problem with me demoting all those binaries?
[12:42] <fabbione> tfheen: can you please let mdadm in too?
[12:42] <tseng> tfheen: because the entire source was promoted before the split
[12:42] <tfheen> Kamion: if you'd be so kind as to let Fabio's mdadm upload in?
[12:43] <tseng> Kamion: i dont see a problem with any of those
[12:43] <tfheen> Kamion: openoffice.org-l10n-sh-yu is NBS, right?
[12:43] <ajmitch> some will get re-promoted in edgy+1, but that's no real concern now
[12:44] <Kamion> tseng: ok, thanks, I've dropped the lot
[12:44] <Kamion> yeah
[12:44] <Kamion>       but no longer builds:
[12:44] <Kamion>         o 2.0.2-2ubuntu5: openoffice.org-l10n-as-in openoffice.org-l10n-mr-in openoffice.org-l10n-or-in openoffice.org-l10n-sh-yu openoffice.org-l10n-ur-in
[12:44] <Kamion>         o 2.0.3-3ubuntu5: openoffice.org-l10n-ti-er
[12:44] <Kamion> shall I remove all those? I wasn't sure
[12:44] <tfheen> at least sh-yu is uninstallable.
[12:44] <tfheen> doko_: ^^ those can be removed?
[12:45] <Kamion> tfheen: mdadm hasn't landed yet
[12:46] <Kamion> tfheen: currently in unapproved: deskbar-applet gnome-orca kdebase python2.4 firefox-themes-ubuntu gnome-app-install
[12:46] <tfheen> fabbione: slacker. :-P
[12:46] <fabbione> Kamion: i uploaded it a few hours ago!
[12:46] <tfheen> Kamion: kdebase is ok.
[12:47] <tfheen> what does the ff-t-u contain?
[12:48] <fabbione> oh wanna bet LP did eat it during the downtime?
[12:48] <fabbione> anyway.. reuploading now
[12:49] <dholbach> tfheen: I fixed the occurrences of dapper, drake, 6.06, etc in the browser startpage (not the other occurences of dapper in the docs, as they require review by the team) - good to go?
[12:49] <slomo_> tfheen: can be demoted... same as everything else from mono that nothing from main depends on
[12:49] <mvo> Kamion, tfheen: anything that needs to be discussed about g-a-i? I uploaded it yesterday
[12:49] <fabbione> Kamion, tfheen: reuploaded...
[12:49] <dholbach> tfheen: what did you do to "Mithrandir"?
[12:50] <fabbione> dholbach: Mithrandir was bad and hugly :P
[12:50] <Fujitsu> dholbach, I was wondering the same.
[12:50] <simira> dholbach: he took a ride through the city
[12:50] <dholbach> simira: and never came back? I refuse to believe that - it's Mithrandir! maybe he's on vacation
[12:51] <Kamion> -kdebase (4:3.5.4-0ubuntu26) edgy; urgency=low
[12:51] <Kamion> +debase (4:3.5.4-0ubuntu26) edgy; urgency=low
[12:51] <Kamion> Tonio_: classy
[12:51] <simira> dholbach: he took a ride, I didn't say he's not expected back
[12:51] <Kamion> accepted anyway
[12:52] <doko_> tfheen: yes, there's a report open for openoffice.org-l10n-sh-yu
[12:53] <doko_> Kamion: the other -l10n packages can be removed as well; we durrently cannot build them.
[12:54] <Tonio_> Kamion: yeah I now I didn't upload the good *.changes, sorry
[12:54] <tfheen> dholbach: yes, good to go.
[12:54] <tfheen> dholbach: mithrandir is when vawad is back up again.
[12:54] <Kamion> doko_: thanks, done
[12:54] <Tonio_> Kamion: but I reuploaded 0ubuntu27 which mithrandir approved yesterday.....
[12:54] <dholbach> tfheen: it's up
[12:54] <Kamion> er, or not, WTF
[12:54] <Kamion> Tonio_: that was part of the diff from 0ubuntu27
[12:54] <Kamion> i.e. you accidentally dropped a character from the start of the next changelog entry down
[12:54] <Tonio_> Kamion: hu ?
[12:55] <tfheen> dholbach: thanks.
[12:55] <Kamion> doko_: ok, er, sorry, I apparently can't remove packages as lp_archive any more (!)
[12:55] <tfheen> mvo: my server.  Or, one of them, anyway.
[12:55] <Tonio_> Kamion: okay, I see this... sorry for the inconvenience... I remember having done this indeed..
[12:58] <janimo> Kamion: can you accept xubuntu-artwork (uploaded a couple of hours ago, approved by tollef)
[12:58] <Kamion> janimo: no, it's not there
[12:59] <Kamion> OH
[12:59] <fabbione> a bunch of uploads have been lost (THANKS LP!) during their downtime
[12:59] <Kamion> fabbione: no, they aren't lost
[12:59] <Kamion> please don't reupload
[12:59] <fabbione> they aren't?
[12:59] <fabbione> i already did
[12:59] <Kamion> somebody forgot to turn the cron job back on, that's all
[12:59] <Kamion> fabbione: then a random one will be accepted, probably
[01:00] <fabbione> Kamion: i uploaded the exact same version
[01:00] <fabbione> so that shouldn't be an issue
[01:00] <Tonio_> Kamion: in fact I had to rewrite the latest 2 entries of the changelog since due to my broken locales, there was something going wrong with the changelog... I certainly removed the character then... will be more carefull in the future
[01:02] <Kamion> Tonio_: you can generally avoid this by reading the diff before upload
[01:02] <Kamion> in my experience anyway :)
[01:03] <Tonio_> Kamion: hehe, indeed :)
[01:24] <carlos> pitti: hi, I just moved my scripts to start the lang pack exports 6 hours earlier than usual
[01:24] <carlos> pitti: just in case you want to move yours too
[01:24] <pitti> carlos: oh, nice
[01:24] <pitti> carlos: yes, I'll do that
[01:24] <carlos> or wait until tomorrow to see when are they exported
[01:25] <pitti> carlos: ok, changed back; can you ping me tomorrow again?
[01:25] <carlos> pitti: sure, but you can see it anyway from the website, the timestamp is not changed, I use rsync to push them to rookery
[01:30] <Kamion> doko_: ok, really removed those binaries now
[01:32] <fabbione> Kamion: 
[01:32] <fabbione> Rejected:
[01:32] <fabbione> mdadm 2.4.1-6ubuntu5 was REJECTED.
[01:32] <fabbione> 	Component: main Section: admin
[01:32] <fabbione>  ??
[01:32] <Kamion> fabbione: that was the duplicate
[01:32] <fabbione> ah ok
[01:32] <Kamion> I've just accepted the other one
[01:32] <fabbione> thanks
[01:33] <Kamion> janimo: accepted
[01:35] <Kamion> tfheen: firefox-themes-ubuntu changelog is http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/24868 - should fix the very wide Go button I think
[01:38] <fabbione> siretart: ping?
[01:38] <siretart> fabbione: pont
[01:38] <fabbione> simira: openal and freealut split mess... 
[01:38] <fabbione> ops
[01:38] <fabbione> siretart: ^^
[01:39] <fabbione> siretart: apparently openal apps expect openal to be linked with freealut
[01:39] <siretart> fabbione: should have been sorted out in dapper already
[01:39] <fabbione> siretart: what's the plan for that?
[01:39] <fabbione> ./X-Plane-i586: symbol lookup error: ./X-Plane-i586: undefined symbol: alutInit
[01:39] <siretart> fabbione: upstream decided that some parts of openal should go to a separate lib, called alut.
[01:40] <fabbione> alutInit is referenced by libopenal in other distros
[01:40] <siretart> fabbione: thats similar to GL and GLUT for graphics
[01:40] <fabbione> hmm ok
[01:40] <siretart> fabbione: thats history. since openal 0.0.8, alut sits on its own
[01:40] <siretart> fabbione: fix the app to link against both -lalut and -lopenal
[01:41] <fabbione> siretart: ok.. i will need to talk to upstream.. an LD_PRELOAD works, but i hate that stuff
[01:41] <siretart> fabbione: yes. tell upstream that they must not assume that alut is in libopenal. this isn't true for I think 6 months or even more
[01:42] <fabbione> siretart: ok thanks a lot
[01:42] <siretart> fabbione: and btw, this seems to be the same in the other openal implementations like the creative one or the apple one
[01:43] <siretart> one of the reasons might be that alut has a different release schedule as openal
[01:43] <fabbione> suse is still using the old openal somehow
[01:43] <siretart> thats surprising
[01:43] <fabbione> yeah i understand the reasons. no big deal
 lele@rivendell:~/X-Plane/X-Plane 8.40> grep alutInit /usr/lib/*
 Binary file /usr/lib/libopenal.so.0 matches
 Binary file /usr/lib/libopenal.so.0.0.8 matches
[01:43] <siretart> there seem to be suse developers at openal upstream
[01:44] <siretart> yes, openal in breezy also hat alut in libopenal
[01:44] <siretart> s/hat/had/
[01:44] <fabbione> that's one of the very latests suse
[01:44] <siretart> that surprises me
[01:44] <fabbione> anyway.. thanks for the explanation
[01:44] <fabbione> i will try to talk to upstream and see what they say
[01:44] <siretart> no wonder why upstream always tell their users to use a selfcompiled openal
[01:45] <siretart> fabbione: btw, thats the reason why dapper has the package 'libopenal0a'. other distributions ship libopenal0, with soname libopenal.0.0.8.  so the debian/ubuntu openal is in fact incompatible with them
[01:46] <siretart> fabbione: I'm waiting for months for upstream to release a new openal, which will have another soname
[01:46] <siretart> fabbione: maybe thats the reason why suse hasn't updated yet
[01:46] <fabbione> ok
[01:47] <mvo> tfheen: I still have no confirmation about the gnome-app-install upload? anything I can do to help ?
[01:53] <cbx33> ping seb128
[01:53] <cbx33> I need a big favour ;)
[01:53] <seb128> cbx33: hi
[01:54] <cbx33> seb128: can I pm you?
[01:54] <seb128> cbx33: if you want
[02:24] <tkamppeter> pitti, the CUPS patch for changing the default error policy is harmless (CUPS seems to be cleanly programmed), I have attached it to bug 41313.
[02:24] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 41313 in cupsys "printer always goes to pause and cannot be resumed" [Medium,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41313
[02:24] <sivang> mvo: hi, around ?
[02:24] <mvo> hello sivang! yes
[02:25] <pitti> tkamppeter: splendid, thanks
[02:26] <tkamppeter> I have tested it on my Mandriva test box with "lpadmin" and the web interface (not printerdrake), and with both methods I get "Retry Job" as error policy now. And it can be overridden as usual (supply option to "lpadmin" or choose another value on options page of web interface).
[02:26] <tfheen> Kamion: firefox-theme-ubuntu> approved.
[02:27] <zul> hey
[02:27] <tfheen> Kamion: gnome-app-install > changelog is update .desktop files or similar?  If so, approved.
[02:27] <zul> hey pitti 
[02:27] <ajmitch> wb zul
[02:27] <sivang> mvo: hey :-) I just wanted to ask if you could send me the link to your branch of home user backup that you sent me 2 weeks ago, I've been to a vacation and am now catching up resuming works.
[02:30] <mvo> sivang: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/bzr/hubackup--mvo/ <- just minor stuff and some tests/. I didn't had a lot of time
[02:30] <Kamion> tfheen: yeah, also:
[02:30] <Kamion> +  * hide python-apt future warnings
[02:30] <Kamion> +  * update available information on refresh()
[02:30] <Kamion> +  * changed the "applications-proprietary" icon
[02:31] <Hobbsee> tfheen: are we in an absolute hard freeze, or could i push thru a couple of small fixes?  (havent done them yet)
[02:31] <Kamion> tfheen: is my finish-install upload to fix serial console handling for upstart ok?
[02:31] <tfheen> Kamion: yeah, that's the one.
[02:31] <tfheen> Kamion: yes.
[02:32] <tfheen> Hobbsee: ice hard.  If your fixes fix beta-critical bugs, they can go in, else not.  Universe is open for business as usual, though.
[02:32] <Kamion> tfheen: ubuntu-docs ok? it's dapper->edgy
[02:32] <tfheen> Kamion: yes.
[02:32] <Kamion> tfheen: shall I take care of base-files and stuff?
[02:33] <tfheen> Kamion: yes, please.
[02:33] <Hobbsee> tfheen: okay, i'll wait then.  and it's in main.
[02:33] <sivang> mvo: everything is appriciated, am now going to work it up to make sure it will hit edgy+1 as early as repos open, thank again. 
[02:33] <Hobbsee> tfheen: thanks
[02:33] <tfheen> Kamion: if you'd add "and stuff" to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CodeNamesToVersionNumbers, that'd be good
[02:34] <Kamion> tfheen: what where?
[02:35] <mvo> sivang: cheers! 
[02:35] <jdong> hmm, are either Ubuntu installers meant to be able to install to a USB mass storage device?
[02:35] <tfheen> Kamion: you said'd you'd update base-files.  If there's anything more which needs updating, putting those on the list of apps which needs to be updated.
[02:36] <tfheen> uh, ".. please put those on the list of apps which need to be updated"
[02:36] <tfheen> jdong: yes.
[02:36] <Kamion> tfheen: oh, I see. I said that because I wasn't sure :)
[02:36] <jdong> tfheen: awesome. That just made my day :) *hug*
[02:36] <tfheen> jdong: at least it worked last time I tried back (and wrote the support) in February.
[02:37] <tfheen> unsure about ubiquity, but I don't see why it wouldn't work.
[02:37] <jdong> tfheen: the only glitch I could finally think of is with grub
[02:37] <jdong> tfheen: but that's more of a BIOS issue than a ubuntu issue
[02:38] <Kamion> tfheen: actually, I suppose it could just keep on saying (development branch)
[02:38] <Kamion> changelog records suggest that we haven't changed it for beta before
[02:38] <jdong> are USB Mass Storage installs a supported setup? Should I file bugs if it doesn't work?
[02:38] <tfheen> Kamion: ok.  Care to note it in the list anyway?
[02:38] <tfheen> jdong: yes
[02:39] <jdong> k
[02:39] <tfheen> at least afaik.
[02:39] <Kamion> tfheen: it's there, under "Files that refer Dapper" [sic] , also in ReleaseChecklist
[02:39] <tfheen> there's a reason why I spent a day or two writing that support, it wasn't purely for the excercise.
[02:39] <tfheen> Kamion: true.  I'd like that list to list packages rather than files.
[02:39] <jdong> tfheen: does the installer properly recognize that when booting from usb, the device is always known as hd0?
[02:39] <Kamion> tfheen: I think I'll update debian-cd now though
[02:40] <tfheen> jdong: it should, yes.
[02:40] <tfheen> jdong: just try it, if it doesn't work, file bugs, if it works, be happy.
[02:40] <jdong> lol, ok
[02:41] <Kamion> tfheen: ok, I've updated it slightly
[02:47] <Kamion> tfheen: debian-cd bumped to say edgy's beta
[02:48] <tfheen> thanks
[02:49] <Hobbsee> tfheen: sorry to be a pain, but when does this freeze end, sorry?
[02:50] <Hobbsee> eh.  my brain's gone again
[02:50] <tfheen> Hobbsee: when beta's out.  Thursday.
[02:50] <Hobbsee> ah
[02:50] <Hobbsee> thanks
[02:51] <ajmitch> just queue up some fixes to get in after beta release
[02:51] <Kamion> you can upload them, they'll be queued
[02:51] <Hobbsee> yeah, well
[02:51] <Hobbsee> one's for gaim.  i think i must be ill
[02:52] <ajmitch> yes, quite sick
[02:52] <ajmitch> hm, 1AM snuck up on me again
[02:52] <Treenaks> Hobbsee: Step away from the source code!
[02:54] <Hobbsee> Treenaks: :P
[02:55] <Treenaks> uh?!
[02:55] <Hobbsee> my apologies
[03:03] <pitti> ugh, everything is so brown here... Seeing breezy has become a rare occasion :)
[03:03] <bluefoxicy> hi pitti
[03:13] <pitti> hi blue
[03:13] <pitti> hi bluefoxicy 
[03:16] <tfheen> pitti: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/apache2/+bug/62242 ; this seems to be your bug?
[03:16] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62242 in apache2 "[Edgy]  No binaries for Apache 2 2.0.55-4ubuntu3 for CVE-2006-3747" [High,Confirmed]  
[03:17] <pitti> tfheen: yes, I chased and discussed it with thom for one and a half hour yesterday; I'm still pretty clueless unfortunately
[03:17] <pitti> tfheen: but yes, eventually I'll look into it
[03:17] <tfheen> pitti: it's beta-targeted
[03:18] <pitti> yeah, I hoped it would be something trivial
[03:18] <pitti> however, neither thom nor I actually know the source of the bug
[03:18] <pitti> (yet)
[03:19] <thom> pitti: there's no chance i'll have time to look at it today
[03:19] <thom> sorry
[03:19] <pitti> thom: oh, wasn't meant to be a blame at all, don't worry 
[03:20] <thom> i know. i'm just making sure you know :-)
[03:31] <tkamppeter> I have a problem with the daily Debian morning gymnastics.
[03:32] <tfheen> pitti: can we reasonably claim it's not beta-critical?
[03:32] <ogra> tkamppeter, this is not a support channel :P
[03:32] <tkamppeter> If I enter "sudo apt-get update; sudo apt-get dist-upgrade" it tells me that it cannot find the python-central package:
[03:32] <tkamppeter> Err http://fr.archive.ubuntu.com edgy/main python-central 0.5.5ubuntu3
[03:32] <tkamppeter>   404 Not Found
[03:32] <tkamppeter> Failed to fetch http://fr.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/p/python-central/python-central_0.5.5ubuntu3_all.deb  404 Not Found
[03:32] <tkamppeter> and the update fails.
[03:33] <ogra> tkamppeter, mirror issue with the fr mirror  ?
[03:33] <pitti> tfheen: well, it's an FTBFS, but apache2 is not on the CD
[03:33] <tkamppeter> Adding "--fix-missing" also did not help, it takes ages after the error message, installs the other packages and ready.
[03:34] <tkamppeter> ogra, can I suppress the fr mirror somehow?
[03:34] <ogra> tkamppeter, http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/p/python-central/ has it
[03:34] <tfheen> pitti: it's on the server cd.
[03:34] <ogra> tkamppeter, http://fr.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/p/python-central/ doesnt
[03:34] <ogra> you can change your /etc/apt/sources.list
[03:34] <ogra> or use the software preferences gui to do that
[03:35] <pitti> tfheen: well, I can stop fiddling with the firefox security update and care for apache now if you want me to
[03:36] <tfheen> pitti: please do fix firefox. :-)
[03:37] <pitti> tfheen: (... for breezy, not for edgy)
[03:38] <tkamppeter> Thanks, ogra, I am trying it now.
[03:40] <Znarl> ogra : I'll contact the admin of fr.archive.ubuntu.com and ask them to look into this issue.
[03:41] <ogra> Znarl, thanks :)
[03:41] <terlmann> is the beta release process proceeding as planned?
[03:45] <tkamppeter> Thanks, ogra, and Znarl, my update has completed now.
[04:04] <dholbach> could it be that the binaries of telepathy-qt were never liberated from binary new? (libqttelepathy0 and libqttelepathy-dev)
[04:07] <cbx33> ping popey
[04:09] <BenC> For anyone that was still wondering. the ruby1.8 build failure is caused by kernel 2.6.15...it builds if you boot to 2.6.17
[04:10] <dholbach> WOW
[04:13] <infinity> BenC: Ugh.  Seriously?
[04:13] <infinity> elmo: ^^^
[04:14] <mvo> doko, doko_: ping?
[04:14] <infinity> elmo: Will you hit me if I ask for the PPC buildds to get upgraded to 2.6.17+?
[04:14] <doko_> infinity: I'll hit you, if you don't check before that OOo still builds
[04:15] <doko_> mvo: pong
[04:15] <mvo> doko_: the upgrade from g++-4.1 (4.1.1-13ubuntu2) to 4.1.1-13ubuntu3 broke synaptic build! it FTBFS now
[04:16] <doko_> mvo: bug number?
[04:16] <BenC> infinity: Can you tell me why linux-source-2.6.17 10.24 is needs-build for everything?
[04:16] <dholbach> do universe uploads need "approval by a distro manager" too?
[04:17] <dholbach> and why is 'Component' for telepathy-python 'main'?
[04:17] <infinity> BenC: slight soyuz breakage.  Working on it.
[04:17] <mvo> doko_: not reported yet, I just wanted to ask if you have a idea. the changelog has nothing in it that explains why the build suddenly starts to fall appart
[04:17] <BenC> infinity: OK, I'm going to upload lrm/linux-meta now and just get them pushed through the queue when linux-source is done
[04:17] <infinity> BenC: Sounds fair.
[04:22] <ogra> infinity, ! alive !
[04:23] <infinity> ogra: Alive, and going to bed.  I'll be back all day tomorrow, though.  For my core hours and yours. :)
[04:23] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62407 in seahorse "seahorse-daemon broken" [Undecided,Rejected]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62407
[04:24] <ogra> infinity, wb and sleep well :)
[04:26] <mvo> doko_: interessting side-note. the problem with synaptic seems to appear only on i386)
[04:27] <elmo> infinity: I have a test kernel installed on davis
[04:27] <elmo> infinity: if that works out, I'm happy to upgrade the others
[04:28] <infinity> elmo: Spiffy.
[04:28] <infinity> doko_: Can you test-build OOo on davis to make sure it still works and let elmo know?
[04:29] <doko_> infinity: the machine runs 2.6.15
[04:30] <fabbione> elmo: did you actually reboot davis in .17?
[04:30] <cbx33> does anyone here actually live in the UK?
[04:30] <elmo> fabbione: not yet, still needs CMOS battery replaced, which should happen this evening/afternoon
[04:30] <fabbione> elmo: ok great! thanks
[04:36] <mvo> doko_: bug #62461
[04:36] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62461 in gcc-4.1 "synaptic no longer buils after g++-4.1 (4.1.1-13ubuntu2) to 4.1.1-13ubuntu3 upgradae" [High,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62461
[04:37] <keescook> okay, I dug around the wiki, and I know I've seen it before, but where do I find the build queue page again?
[04:38] <pitti> keescook: https://launchpad.net/+builds
[04:39] <carlos> doko_: OO.org is imported
[04:39] <carlos> doko_: I'm going to prepare the export and send you the link
[04:39] <pitti> keescook: or, for builds of a particular source package, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/bash
[04:39] <doko_> carlos: thanks!
[04:39] <pitti> keescook: and then click on the version you want
[04:39] <keescook> pitti: ahha, thanks!
[04:41] <bddebian> Heya folks
[04:43] <dholbach> do universe uploads need "approval by a distro manager" too?
[04:44] <herzi> does ubuntu provide a tool that can be called from an aplpication if it encounters sigsegv? (something like bug buddy, but for launchpad)
[04:44] <tseng> herzi: yes
[04:44] <tseng> herzi: apport
[04:44] <herzi> thanks
[04:44] <tseng> the app doesnt need to call it
[04:45] <tseng> the kernel does
[04:45] <tseng> I believe
[04:45] <carlos> pitti: hi, do you have some time?
[04:49] <pitti> carlos: well, what's up?
[04:50] <carlos> pitti: I would like to know how are you fixing the packages in the backports pocket to include translations
[04:50] <carlos> pitti: do you have a list of packages affected?
[04:50] <pitti> carlos: no, I don't have a list; we can't do anything else than rebuild them, I think
[04:50] <carlos> right, but I guess you are forcing such rebuild, right?
[04:51] <pitti> carlos: forcing in the sense of doing a new backport, yes
[04:51] <carlos> so you should have a list of packages that need a new backport....
[04:52] <pitti> right
[04:53] <carlos> pitti: could you send me that list? I need to restore the original dapper template in Rosetta
[04:53] <Kamion> cbx33: yes, quite a few of us
[04:53] <pitti> well, I don't have it
[04:53] <carlos> pitti: ?
[04:53] <pitti> carlos: I have to check all existing dapper backports and sort out which don't have translations
[04:53] <Kamion> dholbach: yeah, the frozen state isn't per-component
[04:54] <Kamion> dholbach: I wave through universe/multiverse uploads whenever I notice them
[04:54] <carlos> pitti: so you didn't prepare a list but fix them from time to time....
[04:54] <dholbach> Kamion: oh ok - thanks a lot
[04:54] <carlos> pitti: is it too difficult for you to get such list?
[04:54] <cbx33> but my gpg key hasn't been signed
[04:54] <dholbach> Kamion: I also noticed that 'telepathy-python' had component 'main' - which looked a bit worrying - it was never intended to be there
[04:55] <pitti> carlos: no, it's easy, but takes time; I just didn't find the time yet
[04:55] <carlos> pitti: is it something I can do?
[04:55] <Kamion> dholbach: yeah, it's a mistake, I'll fix it
[04:55] <dholbach> Kamion: thanks a lot.
[04:55] <Kamion> only the source is in main
[04:55] <carlos> without having the rights you have in our servers
[04:56] <cbx33> no one who lives close to southampton though ;)
[04:56] <pitti> carlos: sure; all sources in http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/dapper-backports/main/source/Sources.gz which have translations
[04:57] <Kamion> not that close, no ...
[04:57] <carlos> pitti: ok, I will try to do it today or tomorrow and I will send you the list
[05:15] <elmo> how hard is it to rebuild the liveCD with a simple package added - and/or is the process documented somewhere?
[05:16] <tseng> elmo: you basically unpack the image, chroot in, apt-get install, recompress the image and rebuild the iso
[05:16] <tseng> elmo: finding link
[05:17] <tseng> elmo: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveCDCustomization
[05:18] <elmo> tseng: sweet, thanks
[05:18] <elmo> how much space is usually free on the Live CD?
[05:18] <tseng> about 0mb
[05:19] <elmo> doh
[05:19] <elmo> ok
[05:19] <tseng> after all the apps are in its filled  up with langpacks
[05:19] <tfheen> elmo: 50MB or so if you remove winfoss, etc.
[05:19] <bluefoxicy> wow no wonder layerfs is so slow
[05:20] <bluefoxicy> for open, it generates a file handle
[05:20] <tfheen> you should be able to just mount the squashfs,  unionfs an empty directory on top, install the stuff, mksquashfs the directory and put that in casper/local.squashfs on the ISO too, but that's not documented anywhere.
[05:20] <bluefoxicy> for read, it opens the actual file; seeks; reads the requested block; and then closes the file.
[05:20] <bluefoxicy> Every.  Freakin'.  Time.
[05:22] <elmo> tfheen: will the instructions on https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomization/6%2e06 work with edgy?
[05:23] <tfheen> elmo: yes.
[05:23] <tfheen> obviously with kernel versions and such replaced.
[05:25] <elmo> tfheen: cool, thanks
[05:29] <Riddell> BenC: did you make any progress on ruby?
[05:31] <BenC> Riddell: ruby needs to build on a .17 kernel machine
[05:32] <BenC> segv only happens when running 2.6.15
[05:33] <Riddell> BenC: so we need to grovel to a sysadmin to set up a buildd with .17?
[05:41] <mvo> tfheen: permission to upload http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/tmp/synaptic-segfault-fix.diff (fixes easily triggerable segfault in synaptic)
[05:41] <BenC> Riddell: yep
[05:41] <Riddell> elmo: would a ppc buildd with linux .17 be possible?
[05:42] <fabbione> Riddell: i did ask elmo to upgrade davis for testing first
[05:42] <fabbione> Riddell: it's in the bug comments
[05:42] <Riddell> oh, cool
[05:47] <tfheen> mvo: what about https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gcc-4.1/+bug/62461 and https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/synaptic/+bug/59673 ?
[05:47] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62461 in gcc-4.1 "synaptic no longer builds after g++-4.1 (4.1.1-13ubuntu2) to 4.1.1-13ubuntu3 upgradae" [High,Unconfirmed]  
[05:47] <tfheen> (they are marked as beta blockers)
[05:48] <ogra> you and your drugs ... tsk
[05:48] <tfheen> mvo_: did your connection drop?
[05:49] <mvo_> tfheen: sorry, network. 
[05:49] <mvo_> tfheen: I did some debugging with doko and it seems that a rebuild of apt is enough to make synaptic build again
[05:49] <tfheen> 17:47 < tfheen> mvo: what about https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gcc-4.1/+bug/62461 and
[05:49] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62461 in gcc-4.1 "synaptic no longer builds after g++-4.1 (4.1.1-13ubuntu2) to 4.1.1-13ubuntu3 upgradae" [High,Unconfirmed]  
[05:49] <tfheen> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/synaptic/+bug/59673 ?
[05:49] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 59673 in synaptic "Synaptic shows a description in incorrect language for korean" [High,In progress]  
[05:49] <tfheen> mvo_: ok, and the other?
[05:49] <mvo_> so the severity of the bug may be lowered
[05:49] <tfheen> mvo_: it's marked as a beta blocker.
[05:50] <tfheen> (both of them are, actually)
[05:50] <mvo_> tfheen: the language one is not really a blocker but something I want to get fixed for beta. it requires a new ddtp upload for lp
[05:50] <tfheen> mvo_: ok, so it's not actually a bug in synaptic?
[05:50] <mvo_> tfheen: its just anoying for the korean people to see russian translations :P
[05:50] <mvo_> tfheen: no, that one is a incorrectly labeld file on the archive server
[05:50] <mvo_> tfheen: and the other one is a bug in g++
[05:51] <tfheen> mvo_: ok,  go ahead with your other fix, then.
[05:51] <mvo_> tfheen: thanks!
[05:53] <elmo> are we getting all variants for beta?  particularly server
[05:55] <tfheen> elmo: yes.
[05:55] <elmo> tfheen: thanks
[05:55] <elmo> (sorry for all the questions :)
[05:56] <tfheen> np.
[05:56] <fabbione> hey Keybuk 
[05:56] <Keybuk> fabbione: hey
[05:56] <fabbione> Keybuk: we solved the raid issue with some black magic
[05:57] <fabbione> Keybuk: we need to plan a session in MountainView to fix it at udev level
[05:57] <Keybuk> oh, what did you do?
[05:57] <Keybuk> I've already registered specs :p
[05:57] <fabbione> Keybuk: voodoo magic :)
[05:57] <Keybuk> https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/udev-evms
[05:57] <Keybuk> https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/udev-lvm
[05:57] <fabbione> Keybuk: there is still one annoying bug in udev but give me 5 minutes and i will explain that to you
[05:57] <Keybuk> https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/udev-mdadm
[05:57] <Keybuk> https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/udev-device-mapper
[05:57] <Keybuk> -- 
[05:57] <fabbione> ehhe
[05:58] <Keybuk> registered them a few weeks ago :p
[05:58] <fabbione> Keybuk: basically mdadm on install creates a config with raid(s) uuid(s)
[05:58] <fabbione> we copy that config in the initramfs and we wait for uuid(s) to show up 
[05:58] <fabbione> with a timeout of course
[05:59] <Keybuk> *nods*
[05:59] <Keybuk> reasonable kludge
[05:59] <Keybuk> what was the bug?
[05:59] <fabbione> the problems are 2 left in udev/volume_id
[05:59] <fabbione> 1) lvm on install are still converted to UUID=
[06:00] <fabbione> 2) volume_id sets a symlink from disk/by-uuid to the first device that is part of the raid and not on the raid itself...
[06:00] <fabbione> (or whatever is used to create that symlink)
[06:00] <fabbione> so basically
[06:00] <fabbione> i had /boot on /dev/md0 UUID=foo 
[06:00] <fabbione> md0 being on top of sda2 and sdb2
[06:01] <fabbione> in disk/by-uuid i saw foo -> sdb2
[06:01] <fabbione> sometimes sda2
[06:01] <fabbione> that makes baby jesus cry, because raid will lock sda2 and sdb2 (since it's running) and the mount will fail
[06:01] <Keybuk> I can well believe that is broken
[06:02] <fabbione> i am just not sure what approach to use for that
[06:02] <fabbione> i could hack more in the md script to fix that symlink, but it sounds wrong to me
[06:02] <Keybuk> it's the upstream "persistant storage" stuff that needs fixing
[06:03] <fabbione> ok.. considering we don't have time to wait for upstream....
[06:03] <fabbione> what's your suggestion?
[06:03] <fabbione> should i hack more in there?
[06:03] <fabbione> or should we avoid transitioning raid and lvm?
[06:03] <fabbione> (to UUID that's it)
[06:03] <Keybuk> for edgy, avoid it
[06:04] <fabbione> the hack for me it's really easy
[06:04] <fabbione> it's a 3 lines in shell
[06:04] <Keybuk> and the persistant storage rules are very complex
[06:04] <Keybuk> I really don't want to go changing them this close to a release
[06:04] <fabbione> ok
[06:05] <fabbione> there is still the issue that the check on install fails and convert lvm to UUID that IIRC it was already fixed
[06:05] <fabbione> i wonder if it's something to do with /dev being mounted in /target
[06:07] <Keybuk> shouldn't think so, the postinst is run in the chroot, so wouldn't see /target
[06:07] <Keybuk> oh
[06:07] <Keybuk> I bet it's not the conversion
[06:07] <Keybuk> I bet it's that the installer just writes UUIDs :)
[06:08] <Keybuk> while we excluded lvm, md, etc. from the convert code, I bet Kamion never changed the installer to not write UUID=* for those!
[06:09] <Kamion> ah, quite possibly
[06:09] <Kamion> can somebody file a partman-target bug about that?
[06:10] <fabbione> Keybuk: can you please take care of that? i am completing a silo test for bet
[06:11] <Keybuk> fabbione: can you please?  I don't have any detail other than "probably doesn't work" -- you have the example fstab, etc.
[06:11] <fabbione> o
[06:11] <fabbione> k
[06:12] <fabbione> Keybuk: will you take care to disable raid conversion in udev? or do you also need a bug?
[06:12] <Keybuk> disable raid conversion?
[06:12] <fabbione> on upgrades?
[06:12] <fabbione> from dapper -> edgy
[06:13] <Keybuk> is it not already disabled?
[06:13] <fabbione> who/what does convert to UUID?
[06:13] <fabbione> only LVM afaik
[06:13] <Keybuk> what do raid devices look like?
[06:13] <fabbione> we did fix the UUID on raid, but now we are hitting this
[06:13] <fabbione>  /dev/md*
[06:13] <Keybuk> ok, those aren't converted currently
[06:13] <fabbione> ok
[06:13] <Keybuk> uh, I mean, those ARE
[06:13] <fabbione> thanks
[06:14] <fabbione> eh ok
[06:14] <fabbione> so we need to stop converting them
[06:14] <Keybuk> *nods* please file a bug (on udev)
[06:14] <Keybuk> you'll also need another on partman-target to stop them being written as UUIDs in the first place
[06:14] <Keybuk> and probably another on grub, etc. to stop them being converted for root=
[06:15] <Kamion> tfheen: ^-- is this a pre-beta thing?
[06:15] <Kamion> my inclination is probably yes
[06:15] <Kamion> at least the partman-target side
[06:16] <fabbione> Kamion, Keybuk: #62476
[06:16] <Kamion> thanks
[06:16] <Kamion> fabbione: I'd like an example fstab or something
[06:17] <Kamion> something to get hold of
[06:17] <fabbione> Kamion: sure thing
[06:18] <fabbione> Kamion: there.. added
[06:18] <fabbione> Keybuk: for you too
[06:19] <fabbione> Kamion, tfheen: if this is beta candidate, all the 3 packages will have to be fixed.. otherwise it won't help too much
[06:19] <fabbione> at least i think it's best to either get it all in
[06:19] <fabbione> or all after beta with a releasenote
[06:33] <BenC> hmm, sorting by status on the milestone page seems broken
[06:34] <froud> Can anyone tell me the month and year in which LTS ends?
[06:35] <Kamion> 2009/06 on the desktop, 2011/06 on the server
[06:36] <Kamion> at least, that was the original announcement
[06:36] <Amaranth> I'd imagine June 2011
[06:53] <adolson> hi. if I want to make a derivative of Ubuntu, is Reconstructor the way to go?
[07:05] <LaserJock> adolson: it's *a* way to go, but not the only way. Depends on what you want to do I suppose, and if you like a GUI tool to do it
[07:06] <adolson> LaserJock: I don't figure it's the appropriate way to create a distro like kubuntu, correct?
[07:07] <LaserJock> something as different as Ubuntu->Kubuntu I would probably want to do CLI
[07:09] <LaserJock> adolson: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomization/6.06 seems to be a good resource
[07:09] <adolson> LaserJock: am I right in thinking that the first step should really be creating a meta-package? in our case, mubuntu-desktop
[07:10] <LaserJock> I certainly think it's a good idea
[07:11] <kristo> hello *
[07:12] <gardengnome> hello adolson. i'd also like to create a derivative distro :). my first step will be understanding the build process of the official CD images so i can add new packages and modify the seeds.
[07:13] <adolson> gardengnome: I don't even know what a seed is, so you're ahead of me
[07:13] <LaserJock> are you guys looking at doing LiveCDs?
[07:14] <gardengnome> adolson: ah well. let me power up my main computer and i'll pass ya some urls.
[07:14] <gardengnome> LaserJock: no. a derivate distro including all the bells and whistles. at least that's what i'm gonna do :)
[07:14] <LaserJock> gardengnome: what I mean is, based on the Desktop CD or alternate CD?
[07:14] <gardengnome> adolson: give me a few minutes please.
[07:15] <LaserJock> and do you plan to have your own repos or use Ubuntu's?
[07:15] <adolson> LaserJock: a whole bunch of people wanted to work on a multimedia distro..
[07:15] <gardengnome> LaserJock: based on ubuntu and its seeds :) hehe. i'd like to create my own seeds so i can have all kinds of CDs i want.
[07:15] <adolson> I think 3rd-party repositories are from the devil
[07:15] <gardengnome> LaserJock: both.
[07:15] <LaserJock> adolson: ;-)
[07:16] <LaserJock> I would suggest you talk to raphink (Raphael Pinson)
[07:16] <gardengnome> thanks!
[07:17] <LaserJock> we've been working on an Kubuntu-based flavor
[07:17] <LaserJock> using LP, seeds, etc.
[07:17] <LaserJock> he can give you a fair amount of advice
[07:18] <LaserJock> I would encourage you guys to create metapackages and do you packaging work within the Ubuntu repos as much as possible
[07:18] <adolson> I absolutely agree
[07:19] <adolson> better would be into debian's repos
[07:19] <adolson> but they dont' have a nice system like REVU
[07:19] <adolson> (last I checked)
[07:19] <LaserJock> debian mentors
[07:19] <LaserJock> mentors.debian.net
[07:20] <LaserJock> luckily with our project we have several DDs so we will be pushing packages into Debian as well
[07:20] <LaserJock> but much of the desktop stuff is pretty Ubuntu specific
[07:21] <adolson> ah, that looks better than it did before
[07:21] <adolson> you remember me, right LJ?
[07:22] <adolson> I remember you... :(
[07:23] <gardengnome> i've gotten the impression that launchpad can also be used by ubuntu derivates to coordinate their work
[07:24] <imbrandon> gardengnome, sure see https://launchpad.net/distros
[07:24] <gardengnome> adolson: it's a lot of URLs. query?
[07:24] <adolson> sure
[07:24] <gardengnome> imbrandon: i've already found that. it looks very cool.
[07:25] <LaserJock> adolson: of course I remember you ;-)
[07:26] <adolson> LaserJock: I didn't work on anything for Edgy, unfortunately
[07:26] <LaserJock> launchpad can be used for bug tracking, specs, all kinds of goodnes ;-)
[07:26] <LaserJock> +s
[07:27] <mvo_> tfheen: could you please accept my recent synaptic upload?
[07:28] <gardengnome> LaserJock: i'm already registered there but i didn't want to create a project till i understand how i can build a CD, for example. that would be embarrassing IMHO. ;)
[07:29] <mvo_> iwj: still here?
[07:29] <LaserJock> gardengnome: we use https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomization/6.06 with modification
[07:30] <gardengnome> LaserJock: thanks, but i'd like to do it from sratch.
[07:30] <LaserJock> gardengnome: good luck with that ;-)
[07:31] <LaserJock> It can be done, but it is pretty difficult and if you aren't modifying the packages much it's probably not worth it
[07:31] <gardengnome> LaserJock: thanks, i'll need it
[07:31] <LaserJock> but it would be a learning experience for sure
[07:32] <iwj> mvo: Yes.
[07:32] <iwj> mvo_: What can I do for you ?
[07:34] <mvo> iwj: see the last comment on bug #54234
[07:34] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 54234 in update-manager "update-manager for edgy needs to upgrade dpkg/apt before calculating the upgrade to support the new "breaks" - otherwise the upgrade may fail" [High,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/54234
[07:35] <iwj> Yes, from mdz, I saw :-/.
[07:35] <mvo> iwj: I was going to talk to you about the Plan B. what needs to be done to emulate the brekas for the packages that use it currently ?
[07:35] <iwj> To _emulate_ it ?
[07:36] <mvo> iwj: well, to make sure that stuff does not break whitout breaks (sorry for the clumsy way to express it)
[07:36] <iwj> The workaround is usually to turn the Breaks into Conflicts and hope that this doesn't make things too badly unupgradeable
[07:36] <gardengnome> LaserJock: you bet.
[07:36] <iwj> Another option is to leave out the dependency entirely.  Very rarely it's feasible to do some approximation with Depends.
[07:39] <mvo> iwj: right. if we go without breaks, we should try to get this done for the beta and change the package + the upgrader. what do you think?
[07:42] <iwj> I don't understand.
[07:42] <iwj> Get what done for the beta ?  Change which package ?  Change the upgrader in which way ?
[07:45] <mvo>  iwj: well, if we don't want Breaks in main we need to change the current packages that use them. and the upgrader would not use the backports 
[07:45] <iwj> Yes.
[07:45] <iwj> That seems to be the plan now.
[07:46] <iwj> Do you mean you want to push those changes into the beta ?
[07:47] <iwj> I'm very tempted to say `for these packages, just leave the Breaks alone'.
[07:47] <iwj> Because putting back the Conflicts will regress the bugs that were fixed by adding Breaks and probably won't really help anything very much.
[07:48] <iwj> But everyone else seems to think I'm mad for suggesting that it might be better to have a dependency relationship not actually represented and acted on.
[07:49] <mvo> iwj: well, with the apt in dapper things will break badly because dpkg is not run with --auto-deconfigure
[07:49] <mvo> iwj: so we need at least this backported if we leave them in
[07:50] <iwj> Oh, damn.
[07:51] <iwj> Well, that's still no good, is it, because that implies the whole arch-any tarball thing.
[07:52] <mvo> iwj: well, the current solution works, its just ugly and it fails without network. 
[07:53] <mvo> iwj: so its either a) remove the breaks entirely b) keep the things as they are but break non-network installs c) try to implement the full solution
[07:53] <mdz> I expect that all of the Breaks we currently have can be converted to conflicts without major issues
[07:53] <mdz> we can hint them in the upgrader if necessary
[07:54] <rodarvus> Kamion, mdz: I'd like to request beta freeze exception for xorg. The only change is the addition of a 'Replaces: xutils' to x11-common
[07:54] <iwj> mdz: Yes, but do we mind doing that now, two days before the beta ?
[07:55] <rodarvus> leaving it as is is harmless, just for reference, but leaves an outdate xutils package on your system
[07:55] <rodarvus> the (very small) debdiff is available at http://people.ubuntu.com/~rodarvus/patches/xorg-7.0.22ubuntu10-7.0.22ubuntu11.patch
[07:55] <mvo> iwj: well, the alternatives seems to be equaliy problematic
[07:55] <mdz> iwj: I mind that a lot less than trying to implement the necessary bits to do it correctly in the same span of time
[07:56] <mdz> rodarvus: does this affect upgrades from dapper?
[07:56] <rodarvus> yes.
[07:57] <mdz> rodarvus: go ahead and upload (it'll be held for manual approval) and set the beta milestone on the bug
[07:57] <iwj> mdz: OK then.
[07:57] <rodarvus> mdz, will do, thanks!
[07:57] <iwj> mvo: Do you want me to deal with these ?
[07:57] <iwj> I mean, the packages with Breaks ?
[07:57] <iwj> I'll leave the upgrader to you.
[08:02] <mvo> iwj: I'm having a look now at the packages
[08:06] <mdz> Kamion: ping
[08:07] <tfheen> Kamion: please approve mvo's synaptic upload
[08:07] <iwj> mvo: Just doing gnumeric now.
[08:07] <mvo> iwj: thanks! 
[08:07] <tfheen> Kamion: lvm-raid-uuid-partman-target-crack-thingabob> yes, beta.
[08:08] <iwj> Do you want the rest or shall I do them ?
[08:08] <Keybuk> tfheen: accepted
[08:08] <tfheen> Keybuk: thanks.
[08:08] <iwj> I should do m-f-l-all as it has a weird template thing.
[08:10] <iwj> mvo: hpijs is the one that I didn't breaksify, so if you fancy like looking at one do that one.  Let me know.
[08:14] <LaserJock> dholbach: ping?
[08:15] <mdz> mvo: tell me about bug 62461
[08:15] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62461 in gcc-4.1 "synaptic no longer builds after g++-4.1 (4.1.1-13ubuntu2) to 4.1.1-13ubuntu3 upgradae" [High,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62461
[08:15] <mdz> LaserJock: dog walk
[08:15] <LaserJock> mdz: ah ;-)
[08:18] <mvo> mdz: well, after the upgrade synaptic does not build anymore. rebuilding/reinstalling apt and rebuild synaptic again fixes it. my suspicion is a abi problem with the latest g++, but I havent investigated further yet
[08:18] <dholbach> LaserJock: pong
[08:18] <iwj> mvo: So are you doing hpijs or am I ?
[08:18] <mvo> iwj: I can do it if you want
[08:18] <LaserJock> dholbach: you fixed bug 61825 with your lates upload, right?
[08:18] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 61825 in ubuntu-docs "Firefox start page still says '6.06 Dapper Drake'" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61825
[08:19] <dholbach> LaserJock: oh yeah
[08:19] <dholbach> LaserJock: you can close it, if you like
[08:20] <LaserJock> dholbach: will do, thanks
[08:20] <iwj> mvo: I don't mind, I just want not to duplicate the effort.
[08:21] <mdz> mvo: has doko seen it?
[08:21] <mvo> mdz: I discussed it earlier with him. I'm not sure if it is release critical because it can be worked around
[08:22] <mvo> iwj: I just turn it into a conflict and make sure that the upgrader knows about those package to avoid accidental removal
[08:24] <iwj> Right.  OK, I'll leave it to you.
[08:24] <iwj> You need to make a similar note in the upgrader about gnumeric.
[08:25] <iwj> New gnumeric and gnumeric-doc conflict with the old ones.
[08:25] <mvo> iwj: gnumeric and the various ff-locale packages it seems
[08:26] <iwj> Yes, but the ff-locale packages are dependencies of language-support-foobar so should be OK anyway, right ?
[08:26] <mdz> mvo: yes, doesn't it already treat those specially because they're metapackages?
[08:28] <mvo> iwj: yeah, they should
[08:29] <mvo> mdz: not strictly, they are section: translations so no special handling (only section metapackages)
[08:29] <mdz> mvo: it should
[08:31] <mvo> mdz: *nod* I will fix that
[08:44] <mdz> Riddell: is the koffice/powerpc issue on edgy_probs the result of the ruby breakage?
[08:47] <mvo> bye iwj
[08:48] <mhb> hello... can someone direct me to a person who's responsible for the files in /lib/firmware/ that get shipped with Edgy?
[08:52] <LaserJock> mhb: I think most of that (if not all) comes from linux-restricted-modules
[08:52] <LaserJock> and or linux-image
[08:52] <LaserJock> anyway, the kernel packages
[08:53] <zul> mhb: try #ubuntu-kernel
[08:53] <mhb> ok, thanks
[08:53] <mhb> I'll try it
[09:03] <segfault> ho.
[09:40] <blue-frog> hi can someone help me provide you with necessary info concerning ubiquity problems
[09:54] <LaserJock> blue-frog: I'm not sure exactly, I'd just look at other ubiquity bug reports
[09:55] <slomo_> Keybuk: hm, shouldn't cryptsetup work correctly with upstart now? i saw you closed the bug but it's still silently ignored at startup
[09:56] <Keybuk> "silently ignored" ?
[09:56] <slomo_> it's just not started and i have to start it by hand later
[09:57] <Keybuk> "just not started" ?
[09:57] <Keybuk> do you mean that the init script itself is not run?
[09:57] <slomo_> yes
[09:58] <Keybuk> you use cryptsetup ?
[09:58] <Keybuk> can you confirm taht for me.  put "touch /dev/CRYPTSETUP.WAS.RUN" at the top of the init script for me
[09:58] <Keybuk> and reboot
[09:59] <ajmitch> morning
[09:59] <bddebian> Heya ajmitch
[09:59] <slomo_> Keybuk: ok, one moment :)
[10:07] <slomo> Keybuk: ok, it's started but it doesn't ask for a passphrase or something
[10:08] <Keybuk> right
[10:09] <Keybuk> you are running 2:1.0.3-3ubuntu3 ?
[10:09] <slomo> yes
[10:12] <Keybuk> interesting
[10:12] <Keybuk> could you put a set -x at the top
[10:12] <Keybuk> see if you get any output anywhere
[10:13] <Keybuk> should be on /dev/console (which will be tty8 if usplash is running, under usplash -- so don't boot with "splash")
[10:14] <elmo> BenC: ping/help?
[10:15] <slomo> Keybuk: ok, one moment
[10:16] <BenC> elmo: pong
[10:17] <mvo> mdz: because of #62461 my latest synaptic bugfix upload is FTBFS. a workaround would be a apt upload with no changes to rebuild it. after that synaptic should build again. is that ok for beta? the synaptic upload fixed a rather frequent segfault (lp: #62298)
[10:18] <elmo> BenC: edgy's kernel isn't finding the root fs on davis :(
[10:18] <BenC> elmo: which kernel version?
[10:18] <Keybuk> elmo: what is the root fs?
[10:18] <Keybuk> if it's /dev/md[0-9] * then fabbione fixed that a few hours ago
[10:19] <elmo> Keybuk: this is edgy's kernel on dapper
[10:19] <elmo> BenC: dunno, let me reboot into dapper
[10:19] <Keybuk> elmo: ok, I'll shut up and sit in the corner then ;)
[10:19] <BenC> elmo: needs at least 9.23
[10:20] <slomo> Keybuk: ok, something more usefull now... it prints some stuff and if i looked fast enough it said "key reading error" while running cryptsetup which would ask for the passphrase then
[10:20] <Keybuk> ok
[10:20] <Keybuk> so that's your problem
[10:21] <Keybuk> errrrrr......
[10:21] <Keybuk> my soundcard just randomly played some crap
[10:22] <slomo> Keybuk: caused by? and all the stuff was on tty1, not 8 :/
[10:22] <Keybuk> which was from an ogg I listened to a few days ago
[10:22] <Keybuk> creepy
[10:22] <Keybuk> slomo: tty1 with usplash running or not running?
[10:22] <mvo> Keybuk: do you run the python testsuit?
[10:22] <Keybuk> slomo: no idea what it's caused by ... I don't care about cryptsetup, some cryptsetup bug
[10:22] <Keybuk> mvo: ECONTEXT
[10:22] <mvo> Keybuk: last time I got random crap from my soundcard it was from it
[10:22] <mdz> mvo: no reason not to upload it
[10:22] <elmo> argh, oh my good yaboot is SO MUCH SUCK
[10:22] <Keybuk> mvo: nope, just sitting on IRC
[10:22] <mdz> mvo: so long as the bug isn't forgotten
[10:22] <slomo> Keybuk: without usplash running
[10:22] <Keybuk> slomo: that's normal
[10:23] <Keybuk> /dev/console is tty1 when no usplash
[10:23] <mvo> mdz: I can assure you I will keep naging doko about it ;)
[10:23] <Keybuk> and tty8 when usplash
[10:23] <ogra> is theer any reason why my usplash switches to tty1 ?
[10:23] <ogra> *there
[10:23] <slomo> Keybuk: ok, but what in cryptsetup could cause this? it works when running the script by hand and doesn't when running from upstart
[10:24] <ogra> it sits there quite longish ...
[10:24] <Keybuk> ogra: tty1 ?  you see a getty?
[10:24] <ogra> i see my login prompt
[10:24] <Keybuk> slomo: no idea, cryptsetup is something I officially don't know anything about
[10:24] <Keybuk> ogra: you run gdm?
[10:24] <ogra> i first thought its a ltsp issue ... but i see it on the server as well
[10:24] <ogra> gdm and ldm
[10:24] <Keybuk> ogra: it does it with the gdm box?
[10:25] <ogra> bot run /etc/init.d/usplash start in their initscripts
[10:25] <ogra> no, before gdm starts up
[10:25] <ogra> its sitting on tty1 for 1-2secs
[10:26] <Keybuk> do both just run usplash start
[10:26] <Keybuk> or do they run DO_NOT_SWITCH_VT=yes usplash start
[10:26] <Keybuk> ? :p
[10:26] <neutrinomass> Kamion: Sorry to ping but there's a person in #ubuntu-bugs with 2 ubiquity issues and for some reason /var/log/installer/syslog doesn't exist (and his /var/log/syslog doesn't contain a traceback) 
[10:28] <ogra> Keybuk, they only run usplash start
[10:29] <Keybuk> ogra: that would be why then
[10:29] <Keybuk> update your gdm :)
[10:29] <ogra> ok, and i have to add that to ldm too i guess :)
[10:29] <ogra> thanks !
[10:29] <Keybuk> yeah
[10:29] <Keybuk> the switch is done when usplash is terminated on vt8
[10:30] <Keybuk> obviously if it's being terminated to start a display manager, you don't want it to switch
[10:30] <ogra> is there any chance we dont need to call start to stop it at some point ?
[10:31] <ogra> dapper has an evil ltsp bug because i ddint know i had to call start ... :/
[10:33] <Keybuk> not while we're using sysv-rc
[10:34] <ogra> ok, so only unitl edgy+1 :)
[10:35] <Keybuk> we should fix the fact that you can't run setupcon while usplash is running
[10:35] <Keybuk> then we wouldn't need to stop usplash at all
[10:35] <Keybuk> it'd die because of the VT flip
[10:39] <ogra> heh
[10:39] <AlinuxOS> After CD boot, Edgy shows messages like: Installer in text mode, Install in OEM mode. I woul like to translate them...but I think that these strings are not present in debian-installer...
[10:41] <slomo> Keybuk: in general it does fd = 0; if(isatty(fd)) { .... foo = getpass("blabla"); if (! foo) explode (); }
[10:41] <AlinuxOS> so which module is that ?
[10:41] <Keybuk> slomo: that should be called with </dev/console ...
[10:41] <Keybuk> which should be a tty
[10:41] <elmo> BenC: yeah, it is 9.23
[10:44] <BenC> elmo: What driver is it using for the disks?
[10:44] <Kamion> mdz: hello
[10:45] <elmo> BenC: sata_nv I think
[10:45] <Kamion> (catching up on scrollback, be right with you)
[10:45] <elmo> BenC: I'm just coming out of rescude mode and into real disk
[10:46] <Kamion> AlinuxOS: gfxboot-theme-ubuntu
[10:47] <AlinuxOS> thank!
[10:47] <AlinuxOS> you
[10:59] <BenC> elmo: can you get dmesg and see if it mentions sata_nv?
[11:05] <Kamion> tfheen: there's no synaptic upload there; do you mean apt?
[11:05] <Kamion> tfheen: partman-target uploaded
[11:06] <tfheen> Kamion: Keybuk did it already.
[11:06] <tfheen> Kamion: is there an apt upload waiting for approval?
[11:06] <tfheen> if so, could you pastebin the changelog?
[11:06] <tfheen> (I can't remember having approved it, and mvo usually doesn't upload without asking, but maybe I'm forgetful)
[11:07] <Kamion> +  * no-changes upload to make apt rebuild against latest g++ and
[11:07] <Kamion> +    fix synaptic FTBFS (see bug: #62461 for details)
[11:07] <tfheen> please accept that, yes.
[11:07] <tfheen> with that, I'm off to bed.  It'll be a long day tomorrow.
[11:09] <elmo> BenC: from edgy kernel?  it doesn't
[11:09] <elmo> [   26.790032]  sata_svw 0001:05:0c.0: version 1.07
[11:10] <elmo> ^-- is dapper
[11:10] <mvo> Kamion: yeah, no changes, just some g++ oddness
[11:10] <BenC> elmo: Ok, svw is what I expected
[11:10] <elmo> BenC: yeah, sorry about the nv thing, that was crack
[11:10] <BenC> elmo: svw was fixed in 9,23...it was crashing on my G5, and jbailey's
[11:10] <mvo> tfheen: anything I can do to help with the livefs script? so that it gets useful auto-install information via apt-get install task^?
[11:11] <BenC> it's working for both of us now
[11:11] <Kamion> apt accepted
[11:11] <elmo> BenC: davis' cdrom had come loose, so it was seeing any IDE drives - could that be relevant?
[11:11] <mvo> thanks Kamion!
[11:12] <BenC> elmo: Probably not, but who knows what kind of crack those ppc64's are on
[11:12] <elmo> BenC: ah, yes, it is
[11:13] <elmo> I put the disks in a machine with a working cdrom and it boots first time
[11:13] <BenC> so edgy kernel is working now?
[11:13] <elmo> so.  much.  crack.
[11:13] <elmo> BenC: yes
[11:13] <BenC> excellent
[11:13] <elmo> well, not so much
[11:13] <elmo> but details
[11:15] <elmo> BenC: is there any point in filing a bug about that?
[11:15] <elmo> BenC: (needing IDE for SATA to work)
[11:17] <BenC> elmo: I'll leave that up to you
[11:17] <mjg59> Kamion: So I picked UK in ubiquity and it's given me dvorak
[11:17] <mjg59> Which I can deal with, but I'm sure others would be less happy :)
[11:18] <Kamion> mjg59: current daily?
[11:18] <Kamion> didn't happen last time I tried
[11:19] <mjg59> Kamion: I just booted an old daily and then did apt-get install ubiquity
[11:19] <Kamion> how old?
[11:19] <Kamion> you might need to upgrade console-setup too
[11:19] <mjg59> Ah
[11:19] <mjg59> What's the easiest way to tell?
[11:20] <Kamion> dpkg -l console-setup
[11:21] <mjg59> 1.7ubuntu8
[11:22] <Kamion> mjg59: hmm, it might be just too old but it might be something else
[11:23] <Kamion> mjg59: would you mind going through the install again with a bit of debugging for me?
[11:23] <mjg59> Kamion: I'll let the install complete and then reboot into the CD
[11:24] <Kamion> ok, just note I'm not here much longer tonight
[11:24] <mjg59> I'm at 62%
[11:24] <mjg59> Oh, also, if it lets partitions get mounted, they seem to end up on my desktop twice
[11:24] <Kamion> known and fixed gnome-vfs2 bug
[11:24] <mjg59> Cool
[11:24] <mjg59> I'll ignore that, then
[11:24] <Kamion> it duplicated anything that was mounted by UUID, I believe
[11:25] <mjg59> Hm.
[11:25] <mjg59> Oh, recovery partitions still don't seem to be added to grub automatically
[11:25] <mjg59> Though I thought I sent patches for several of them
[11:25] <mjg59> Not sure if that was to Debian or Launchpad
[11:25] <exarkun> I can't get limits.conf to work.  There doesn't seem to be a manpage, either.  Also the comments in the file seem to be wrong.  Can someone point out the existing documentation that I have overlooked which explains this?
[11:27] <bddebian> Limits are Evil(tm) and should not be used :-)
[11:27] <exarkun> I want to change the file limit to unlimited, instead of 1024 :)
[11:27] <Kamion> mjg59: I think you did, but I also don't think I ever applied them
[11:27] <Kamion> hassle me next week and I'll check
[11:28] <bddebian> exarkun: Then don't use the macro
[11:28] <mjg59> Kamion: Ok, no problem
[11:28] <mjg59> Kamion: What debugging do you want on the install?
[11:28] <exarkun> bddebian: You've lost me.
[11:28] <mjg59> This is about to finish, so I'll restart it
[11:29] <bddebian> exarkun: You want to globally change MAXPATHLEN or something?
[11:29] <Kamion> mjg59: edit /var/lib/dpkg/info/console-setup.config and stick 'set -x' near the top; then start the installer using 'sudo env UBIQUITY_DEBUG ubiquity'
[11:29] <Kamion> bddebian: doesn't sound like you know what limits.conf is ...
[11:29] <Kamion> /etc/security/limits.conf, to expand a little
[11:29] <exarkun> bddebian: Sorry, the open file descriptor limit, not the maximum path length.
[11:29] <Kamion> this is ulimit, not sysconf stuff
[11:29] <bddebian> Ohh, limits.conf, I thought you said limits.h, sorry
[11:29] <mjg59> Kamion: With or without updated console-setup?
[11:29] <exarkun> bddebian: 'ulimit -Hs unlimited'
[11:29] <exarkun> er
[11:29] <exarkun> Hn :)
[11:29] <Kamion> mjg59: exactly the same as you did before
[11:30] <Kamion> mjg59: er, obviously the command should have been 'sudo env UBIQUITY_DEBUG=1 ubiquity'
[11:30] <Kamion> mjg59: make sure to use a throwaway password - with debconf debugging turned on, it shows up in syslog
[11:31] <Kamion> mjg59: then I need /var/log/syslog
[11:31] <Riddell> mdz: yes, ruby is blocking koffice on ppc
[11:31] <mjg59> Kamion: No problem
[11:31] <mjg59> Restarting now
[11:31] <Kamion> thanks
[11:32] <Kamion> I *think* 1.7ubuntu8 should be enough, although 1.7ubuntu12 should give better defaults
[11:32] <Kamion> but that shouldn't matter in this case
[11:33] <Kamion> mjg59: the syslog from right after you hit next on the keyboard page should be enough, btw
[11:33] <exarkun> So, any ideas?
[11:34] <Kamion> exarkun: what limits.conf line are you trying exactly?
[11:34] <Kamion> and what comments are you taking issue with?
[11:34] <Kamion> (I'm not quite an expert here, though I can sometimes play one on TV)
[11:35] <LaserJock> Kamion: really? I don't even get to do that :/
[11:35] <LaserJock> ;-)
[11:35] <exarkun> Kamion: "www-data        hard    nofile          8192" (with tabs)
[11:36] <Kamion> apache probably doesn't start a PAM session
[11:36] <exarkun> Kamion: the comments seem to indicate this is an appropriate line, my only issue with them is that it does not change my open file limit :)
[11:36] <Kamion> limits.conf only takes effect so
[11:36] <Fade> this'd prolly be for twisted
[11:36] <Kamion> er
[11:36] <Kamion> for stuff that starts a PAM session
[11:36] <Fade> :)
[11:36] <exarkun> Kamion: Login doesn't?  I thought it defined baseline defaults :/
[11:36] <Kamion> which is typically only things that correspond roughly to user logins
[11:37] <Kamion> exarkun: your web server surely isn't invoked from login though?
[11:37] <exarkun> I'm hoping to affect the limits applied to a new login shell, as provided by sshd.
[11:37] <elmo> can someone try the test ruby program on davis please?
[11:37] <Kamion> oh, well that should work, but why are you logging in directly as www-data?
[11:37] <exarkun> Hmm
[11:37] <elmo> ^benc/riddell/fabbione/whoeverelse was looking at this
[11:37] <exarkun> Okay, that was not quite true.
[11:37] <exarkun> I am logging in as my user and then sudo'ing to www-data... I suppose that might be the problem
[11:37] <zjohnson> hmmm
[11:38] <exarkun> I shall attempt to log in as www-data directly
[11:38] <Kamion> yes, sudo doesn't start a PAM session - it only uses PAM for authentication and account management
[11:39] <mjg59> Kamion: http://www.codon.org.uk/~mjg59/tmp/keyboard_syslog
[11:39] <exarkun> What do you know, that worked.  Thank you :)
[11:39] <mjg59> Kamion: Works fine in the test field, breaks on the next page
[11:39] <Riddell> elmo: I get connection refused sshing to davis
[11:40] <Kamion> exarkun: pam_limits only provides a session component, so there's probably no easy way to make it work with sudo
[11:40] <Kamion> The requested URL /~mjg59/tmp/keyboard_syslog was not found on this server.
[11:40] <mjg59> Kamion: http://www.codon.org.uk/~mjg59/tmp/keyboardvsyslog
[11:40] <mdz> Kamion: were you able to learn more about the ruby issue?
[11:40] <mjg59> Kamion: http://www.codon.org.uk/~mjg59/tmp/keyboard.syslog
[11:41] <Kamion> mdz: I think BenC is already way ahead of me
[11:41] <mjg59> (Argh, swapping between qwerty and dvorak makes me hurt)
[11:41] <mdz> BenC says we can work around it by upgrading the kernel, but somehow I don't think elmo will be too thrilled with that suggestion
[11:41] <Kamion> I just found that it worked if I turned threading support off
[11:41] <Kamion> but that's not actually viable
[11:41] <Kamion> mdz: elmo already seems to be on the case though?
[11:41] <mdz> so he is
[11:42] <Kamion> but no, I didn't get any further than what I posted to the bug
[11:42] <Kamion> mjg59: that's a 403
[11:42] <mjg59> Kamion: Nngh. Hang on...
[11:42] <mjg59> Kamion: Ok, now
[11:42] <Kamion> right, better ...
[11:44] <elmo> Riddell: ah, excellent point
[11:44] <elmo> Riddell: it'd help if it wasn't fscking, sorry
[11:45] <zjohnson> ok
[11:46] <zjohnson> I am trying to add --enable-ssl in the debian/rules of the mutt pkg
[11:46] <zjohnson> (to the configure command)
[11:48] <elmo> Riddell: up now
[11:49] <Kamion> mjg59: ok, I think I see what's happening - console-setup/variant is marked seen (it probably shouldn't be) and then console-setup SUBSTs in a list of choices none of which are the preseeded value, so debconf picks the first one which (incorrectly, probably) is dvorak
[11:49] <Riddell> thanks elmo, trying now
[11:51] <mjg59> Kamion: Ok
[11:51] <Kamion> mjg59: could you do 'mount -o loop -t squashfs /cdrom/casper/filesystem.squashfs /mnt; chroot /mnt debconf-show console-setup | grep variant:; umount /mnt' for me?
[11:56] <mjg59> * console-setup/variant: U.S. English
[11:56] <mjg59>   console-setup/variantcode:
[11:56] <Kamion> right
[11:57] <Kamion> I think putting this just before the return in /usr/lib/ubiquity/ubiquity/components/console_setup.py:prepare() should do it:
[11:57] <Kamion>         self.db.fset('console-setup/layout', 'seen', 'false')
[11:57] <Kamion>         self.db.fset('console-setup/variant', 'seen', 'false')
[11:57] <elmo> Riddell: that seemed to work?
[11:57] <Kamion> probably the quickest workaround, anyway
[11:57] <Riddell> elmo: yep, does indeed
[11:57] <elmo> ok, well the buildds are on the same kernel now too
[11:58] <elmo> please have whoever can give back the appropriate builds
[11:58] <elmo> I'm going home
[11:58] <Riddell> elmo: great, thanks
[11:58] <Riddell> Kamion: could you give back ruby1.8 on ppc then
[11:58] <Kamion> Riddell: no, I'm not in launchpad-buildd-admins
[11:59] <Riddell> oh, sorry
[11:59] <Riddell> tfheen or Keybuk or infinity about?
[11:59] <mjg59> Kamion: Doesn't /seem/ to have made any difference
[11:59] <mjg59> But I may have screwed up - I don't know python
[11:59] <mjg59> Would I need to reboot?
[12:00] <mjg59> Again, it's fine in the keyboard layout window
[12:00] <mjg59> But breaks after I hit forward there
[12:04] <Kamion> mjg59: could you update the debug log?
[12:04] <mjg59> Kamion: Yup, give me a sec
[12:04] <zjohnson> blar =)
[12:05] <mjg59> Kamion: Done - same URL