[08:36] <Laifen> Bonjour
[03:09] <rodarvus> @now Sao_Paulo
[03:09] <Ubugtu> Current time in America/Sao_Paulo: September 26 2006, 10:09:27 - Next meeting: Technical Board in 6 hours 50 minutes
[05:39] <Toadstool> @schedule Los_Angeles
[05:39] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Los_Angeles: 26 Sep 13:00: Technical Board | 27 Sep 13:00: Edubuntu | 28 Sep 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Sep 09:00: Ubuntu Desktop Effects Team | 03 Oct 10:00: Community Council | 04 Oct 05:00: Edubuntu
[05:45] <sharms> @schedule chicago
[05:45] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 26 Sep 15:00: Technical Board | 27 Sep 15:00: Edubuntu | 28 Sep 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Sep 11:00: Ubuntu Desktop Effects Team | 03 Oct 12:00: Community Council | 04 Oct 07:00: Edubuntu
[06:14] <nixternal> almost did a chicago sched until i seen ya already did it sharms ;)
[06:28] <sharms> :)
[07:12] <Laifen> re
[07:19] <GNAM> @schedule rome
[07:19] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 26 Sep 22:00: Technical Board | 27 Sep 22:00: Edubuntu | 29 Sep 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Sep 18:00: Ubuntu Desktop Effects Team | 03 Oct 19:00: Community Council | 04 Oct 14:00: Edubuntu
[07:29] <cbx33> @schedule GMT
[07:29] <cbx33> @schedule london
[07:29] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/London: 26 Sep 21:00: Technical Board | 27 Sep 21:00: Edubuntu | 29 Sep 00:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Sep 17:00: Ubuntu Desktop Effects Team | 03 Oct 18:00: Community Council | 04 Oct 13:00: Edubuntu
[08:10] <lguerra> Ubugtu calendar paris
[08:17] <zul> @schedule montreal
[08:17] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 26 Sep 16:00: Technical Board | 27 Sep 16:00: Edubuntu | 28 Sep 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Sep 12:00: Ubuntu Desktop Effects Team | 03 Oct 13:00: Community Council | 04 Oct 08:00: Edubuntu
[09:00] <Laifen> Bonne nuit  tous
[09:00] <Laifen> A demain
[09:48] <mc44_> @now
[09:48] <Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: September 26 2006, 19:48:51 - Next meeting: Technical Board in 11 minutes
[09:59] <Keybuk> $(appropriate greeting for your timezone)
[09:59] <cbx33> heh
[09:59] <mjg59> Evening
[09:59] <Fujitsu> Hi Keybuk.
[09:59] <bddebian> $(appropriate grumble)
[10:00] <cbx33> hey bddebian 
[10:00] <Fujitsu> Early morning here... I don't do 5:30am :S
[10:00] <bddebian> Hi cbx33
[10:00] <Keybuk> so let's get started
[10:00] <cbx33> Fujitsu, yikes...Iget up at that time every day
[10:00] <Keybuk> a few ubuntu-dev candidates today
[10:00] <Fujitsu> Where a few == 3, I believe.
[10:00] <Keybuk> q-funk, Fujitsu, cbx33 
[10:00] <mdz> morning
[10:00] <ajmitch> morning
[10:00] <Keybuk> though it seems Martin isn't around
[10:01] <zul> afternoon
[10:01] <Keybuk> if anyone can ping him via other means, do so
[10:01] <Keybuk> Fujitsu: that means you're up first;  please introduce yourself
[10:01] <dholbach> q-funk is not on irc.gnome.org either
[10:01] <Fujitsu> OK.
[10:02] <Fujitsu> I'm William Grant, from Melbourne, Australia.
[10:02] <Fujitsu> I've been hanging out with the MOTU for a few months now, and started helping out about 3 months ago.
[10:02] <Fujitsu> In that time, I've handled a lot of syncs and merges, as well as a few new upstream versions, and some bugfixes.
[10:02] <Fujitsu> In the future I'd like to mainly help LaserJock and co. with MOTU Science, and help with Debian collaboration.
[10:03] <Fujitsu> Er, that's the end :P
[10:03] <Keybuk> tell us about MOTU Science
[10:03] <Keybuk> what kinds of thing is that aiming to bring to Ubuntu
[10:04] <mdz> Fujitsu: who has been uploading your changes for you?
[10:04] <Fujitsu> Well, there are already quite a few new science packages in Ubuntu that aren't yet in Debian.
[10:04] <Fujitsu> mdz: Primarily crimsun, but Hobbsee, LaserJock, Gloubiboulga to start.
[10:05] <Fujitsu> And MOTU Science aims to make Ubuntu a viable alternative for scientists
[10:05] <dholbach> people from ubuntu-universe-sponsors know his mail address quite well - although crimsun is always quicker.
[10:05] <Keybuk> crimsun can't be here today, but has mailed in his advocation for you
[10:05] <bddebian> hmm
[10:05] <Fujitsu> Goodo, Keybuk.
[10:06] <Keybuk> how do you think Debian collaboration can be improved?
[10:06] <bddebian> Boy, that's a loaded question ;-)
[10:06] <Fujitsu> Well, I was talking with a Debian developer just yesterday, I hadn't spoken to him before.
[10:07] <Fujitsu> He said that he didn't really like the automated Ubuntu patch submission, and that he'd generally handle patches only when a bug had been filed.
[10:07] <Fujitsu> I think this needs to be worked on.
[10:07] <Fujitsu> Because I believe a lot of DDs have the same attitude.
[10:07] <Fujitsu> (although some obviously have a much more negative one)
[10:07] <Keybuk> do you think DDs would be happy about adding a further 65,000 bugs to their BTS?
[10:08] <Keybuk> how would they react to those that are clearly Ubuntu specific, or clearly duplicates?
[10:08] <Fujitsu> I'm not quite sure, but I know most aren't happy to just have a big monolithic patch...
[10:08] <Fujitsu> Keybuk, that's what needs to be figured out.
[10:08] <Fujitsu> At the moment, MoM just sends everything.
[10:08] <Fujitsu> Even if it's Ubuntu-specific, or a duplicate, whatever.
[10:09] <Fujitsu> And some of the deltas are /gigantic/, and DDs are unlikely to work through those.
[10:09] <Fujitsu> I'm not sure exactly the best way to go about improving collaboration, but it needs to be done.
[10:10] <Keybuk> arguably the difficulty in sending useful patches back is a fault of Debian for having a fucking-stupid(tm) source package format and manager ... but I won't digress further :p
[10:11] <Fujitsu> Maybe true.
[10:11] <Fujitsu> For example, the guy I was talking to yesterday maintains 915resolution.
[10:11] <Keybuk> as a MOTU, all the work you will be doing in universe increases this divergence from Debian
[10:11] <Fujitsu> I know, yes.
[10:11] <Keybuk> how will you balance this with your desire to improve collaboration?
[10:11] <LaserJock> Keybuk: "all"?
[10:12] <Keybuk> LaserJock: anything that's not a sync request
[10:12] <Fujitsu> Divergence isn't mutually exclusive with collaboration.
[10:12] <LaserJock> Keybuk: pushing patches back is part of MOTU work as well
[10:12] <Fujitsu> I would, where feasible, submit appropriate bugs in the bug tracker for the package in Debian, if the fixes indeed applied to Debian too.
[10:12] <Fujitsu> LaserJock, exactly.
[10:12] <ogra> LaserJock, ++
[10:12] <Fujitsu> (just not a whole lot of people push them back)
[10:12] <bddebian> Bite your tongue
[10:12] <LaserJock> minimizing and maintaining divergence is the MOTUs work
[10:13] <Keybuk> ok
[10:13] <Keybuk> mjg59, mdz : any questions?
[10:14] <mdz> he'll brb
[10:14] <Keybuk> oops
[10:14] <cbx33> heh
[10:14] <Fujitsu> Yes, oops :P
[10:15] <mdz> LaserJock: what do you think is the most important area where Ubuntu needs improvement today, technically speaking?
[10:15] <mjg59> LaserJock: How do you think we can encourage scientific users to use Ubuntu?
[10:15] <bddebian> Tell him he can't get in unless he does azureus ;-)
[10:15] <Fujitsu> Er, me, you mean?
[10:15] <mjg59> (Oops - go with mdz first)
[10:15] <mjg59> Erm
[10:15] <mjg59> Yes, Fujitsu
[10:15] <LaserJock> heh,  I'm not the one going for MOTU today ;-)
[10:15] <mdz> Fujitsu: yes, sorry
[10:15] <Fujitsu> Aha, good...
[10:15] <ogra> LaserJock, say education :P
[10:16] <LaserJock> ogra: of course ;-)
[10:16] <ogra> *g*
[10:16] <Fujitsu> Well, actually, I agree with ogra. There is an enormous lacking of educational Free software. gcompris is one thing, but there's an enormous void in the education sector.
[10:16] <Fujitsu> But science is also lacking.
[10:16] <mdz> Fujitsu: there is a lack of such software, or a lack of it in Ubuntu?
[10:17] <Fujitsu> mdz, there is a lack of such software in the FOSS community in general.
[10:17] <LaserJock> mdz: lack of good software with good licenses :/
[10:17] <cbx33> Fujitsu, ++
[10:17] <Fujitsu> LaserJock, exactly.
[10:17] <Keybuk> how is that solvable by the MOTU?
[10:17] <LaserJock> MOTU Science keeps track of 400+ packages
[10:17] <mdz> Fujitsu: while we occasionally develop new software in-house, Ubuntu as a project is primarily about integration, bringing together the software which is available
[10:17] <Fujitsu> Well, there are some things that are not yet packaged (in science moreso).
[10:18] <Fujitsu> mdz, noted, but there is some more stuff we can package, especially in science.
[10:19] <minghua> there is always chance to introduce some software unavailable in debian into ubuntu multiverse first
[10:19] <pygi> minghua, multiverse??!
[10:19] <pygi> why would you put free/open source stuff in multiverse?
[10:19] <mdz> Fujitsu: that is what MOTU science is doing today, yes?
[10:19] <LaserJock> because it isn't free
[10:19] <minghua> pygi: yes, some scientific software has non-DFSG-free licenses
[10:19] <Fujitsu> mdz, yes.
[10:20] <Fujitsu> mdz, as well as maintaining well over 400 packages.
[10:20] <minghua> pygi: and there are just no alternatives
[10:20] <pygi> minghua, ah, then somebody should make sure alternatives are produced :)
[10:20] <mdz> Fujitsu: that is a lot of packages. how do you keep track of them all?
[10:20] <LaserJock> mdz: me ;-)
[10:20] <mdz> there are only about 10 members of motuscience
[10:20] <cbx33> heheh LaserJock's brain holds the key ;)
[10:21] <Fujitsu> mdz, yeah, LaserJock does a lot, but I keep track of quite a number.
[10:21] <Fujitsu> mdz, most of them aren't MOTUs.
[10:21] <mdz> LaserJock: how do you track bugs for them?
[10:21] <Fujitsu> mdz, the subscribed bugs page.
[10:21] <mdz> I noticed that motuscience isn't a bug contact for any packages
[10:21] <Fujitsu> mdz, yes we are...
[10:21] <mdz> ah, never mind, wrong page
[10:21] <LaserJock> for all 400+
[10:21] <mdz> it's not a *maintainer* of any packages, but it is a bug contact
[10:21] <Fujitsu> Otherwise it would just be impossible to manage :P
[10:21] <Fujitsu> mdz, yes.
[10:21] <LaserJock> I also maintain a list using lucas's scripts
[10:22] <mdz> LaserJock: lucas's scripts?
[10:22] <Fujitsu> MultiDistroTools.
[10:22] <ogra> m-science is a very valuable source for information for edubuntu btw ...
[10:22] <LaserJock> http://tiber.tauware.de/~laserjock/motuscience/all.html for instance
[10:22] <minghua> yes, we track a lot of packages, and from what I see, motu-science is very responsive to bug reports
[10:22] <minghua> and a lot of credits goes to Fujitsu 
[10:22] <Fujitsu> Yes, LaserJock's lists are incredibly useful, and make managing the large number of packages sane.
[10:22] <LaserJock> but we need MOTUs in MOTU Science
[10:22] <LaserJock> :-)
[10:22] <Fujitsu> Thanks, minghua :)
[10:22] <Fujitsu> LaserJock, there are 3 at the moment, no?
[10:22] <LaserJock> minghua, tritium, and myself
[10:23] <LaserJock> although bddebian is an honorary member
[10:23] <mdz> LaserJock: it looks a bit like packages.qa.debian.org
[10:23] <minghua> (and I am not active during edgy release, that should change for edgy+1)
[10:23] <LaserJock> mdz:mhm
[10:23] <LaserJock> mdz: I also track the difference between Ubuntu and Debian in terms of packages they don't have
[10:24] <LaserJock> mdz: we tend to loose a lot of new Debian packages
[10:24] <LaserJock> http://tiber.tauware.de/~laserjock/motuscience/ud_diff.html
[10:24] <mdz> ok, thanks for satisfying my curiosity, though we're digressing a bit
[10:24] <rodarvus> LaserJock: you really mean 'loose' or lose?
[10:24] <mdz> anything further for Fujitsu?
[10:24] <Keybuk> nothing from me
[10:24] <Keybuk> mjg59: ?
[10:24] <Fujitsu> Like, I went through the list of packages in Debian and not Ubuntu a couple of days ago, and there are 32 new ones, though 12 are in contrib/non-free.
[10:25] <mjg59> I'm happy
[10:25] <LaserJock> rodarvus: one of the 2 ;-)
[10:25] <Keybuk> ok votes
[10:25] <mdz> +1 from me
[10:25] <mjg59> +1
[10:25] <Keybuk> +1 from me, have seen a fair bit from Fujitsu 
[10:25] <Keybuk> Fujitsu: congrats
[10:25] <Fujitsu> Yay :)
[10:25] <Fujitsu> Thanks :)
[10:25] <dholbach> congratulations Fujitsu
[10:25] <bddebian> w00t, congrats Fujitsu
[10:25] <lfittl> congrats Fujitsu
[10:25] <cbx33> congratulations Fujitsu 
[10:25] <rodarvus> Fujitsu, congratulations!
[10:25] <YukiCuss> \o/ Fujitsu
[10:25] <ogra> congrats Fujitsu !
[10:25] <mjg59> cbx33: Want a go?
[10:25] <cbx33> mjg59, sure
[10:25] <cbx33> I'm Pete Savage, aka cbx33, I'm currently working as an IT manager at a school in Southampton UK.  I became an Ubuntu/Edubuntu Member about a month after helping out in the Edubuntu community.  Originally working on a few bug fixes and documentation.
[10:25] <cbx33> Recently I have been working a lot more on developing applications and completing specifications.  I recently completed the Student Control Panel spec, as well as writing gisomount, and working on development of grasynco and gallium
[10:25] <cbx33> I would love to get into more packaging, and hope to attend the UDS, where I can gain a better insight into the development process.  I would like to develop and package more educational applications for Edubuntu and would one day hope to become a core-dev.
[10:26] <mjg59> cbx33: So who have you been working with in Ubuntu so far?
[10:26] <cbx33> ogra, LaserJock, rodarvus, pygi 
[10:26] <mdz> cbx33: are you the same pete savage who contributed the sound theme, or a different one?
[10:26] <cbx33> many many people 
[10:26] <cbx33> mdz, I am indeed
[10:26] <ogra> cbx33, was the greatest edubuntu developer in the edgy cycle ... he started learning pythion and basic packaging at the beginnign of the cycle and actually finished student-control-panel and packaged it ...
[10:27] <ogra> as well as his other stuff (gisomount etc)
[10:27] <Keybuk> cbx33: who has been doing uploads for you so far?
[10:27] <Keybuk> have you done many?
[10:27] <cbx33> ogra, mainly
[10:27] <pygi> cbx33 did a marvelous job really....
[10:27] <cbx33> and LaserJock too
[10:27] <ogra> it was very very impressing seeing him getting to speed so fast
[10:28] <cbx33> Keybuk, total number of pacakges?
[10:28] <cbx33> 4
[10:28] <LaserJock> He was also my first proofreader *cough*victim*cough* for the Ubuntu Packaging Guide
[10:28] <ogra> (on a sidenote the new edubuntu artwork and the ubuntu sounds are also from him, done aside the development he did for us)
[10:28] <rodarvus> cbx33 has contributed code, new packages, ideas for edubuntu, and is very helpful & interested, generally speaking
[10:28] <pygi> rodarvus, don't forget sounds and artwork :)
[10:28] <rodarvus> pygi, yes, that too
[10:29] <mjg59> cbx33: So what would yo
[10:29] <mjg59> Oops
[10:29] <mdz> cbx33: is Ubuntu the first free software project you've been involved with?
[10:29] <cbx33> mdz, I tried to get involved with Fedora at one point
[10:29] <cbx33> but found the community to be rather eliteist
[10:29] <cbx33> after using ubuntu for about 2months I decided to give the ubuntu community a try
[10:30] <cbx33> as Edubuntu fitted in so well with my work
[10:30] <cbx33> I also started try ing to create a distro, Devenix
[10:30] <cbx33> which was goign to be an entire php development studio on a USB stick....bootable anwhere....
[10:31] <cbx33> but this has taken a backseat as Ubuntu is so much fun to work on ;)
[10:31] <mdz> cbx33: what made the Ubuntu community different?
[10:31] <cbx33> (incidentlt Devenix started as a knoppix prototype but will now be Ubuntu)
[10:31] <cbx33> mdz, primarily the attitude
[10:32] <cbx33> you can get to speak to the "real" people developing things.....not just people using them
[10:32] <cbx33> and people are very ready to help you out
[10:32] <cbx33> I remember first going into the motu channel after wanting to find out more about creating a customized live CD, bddebian and dholbach were the first two people I spoke to in ther
[10:33] <mdz> cbx33: what kind of difficulties did you have trying to do the same in fedora?
[10:33] <mdz> was it harder to locate the right people?
[10:33] <cbx33> for a start the activity was low, and the technical knowledge seemed lacking
[10:33] <cbx33> people here either know the answer, can point you to the right doc....or ask you to write the doc when youre done ;)
[10:34] <cbx33> and if people don;t know the answer they tell you
[10:34] <cbx33> as opposed to just ignoring you
[10:34] <cbx33> I don;t feel like a little fish here.....I feel like I actually contribute :D
[10:34] <mjg59> cbx33: So you're planning on continuing in much the same way that you currently are?
[10:34] <mdz> cbx33: in what way do you feel that joining MOTU will help you in your work?
[10:35] <cbx33> mjg59, yes, but getting much more involed in pacakging
[10:35] <mjg59> cbx33: Have you done much packaging so far?
[10:35] <cbx33> hopefully helping LaserJock out more in MOTU science
[10:35] <mjg59> Rather than simply working on existing packages?
[10:36] <cbx33> mjg59, I have done a small amount of pacakging, but I hope people find my pacakges well presented and compelte
[10:36] <ogra> mjg59, he did some from scratch and took over student-control-panel from me which i sponsor for him for main
[10:36] <ogra> the quality was excellent, even the amount wasnt big yet 
[10:36] <LaserJock> mjg59: I also helped him learn how to package with is own upstream product gisomount
[10:36] <cbx33> LaserJock, ++
[10:36] <LaserJock> mjg59: but I found I really didn't need to help him
[10:36] <mjg59> Ok, sounds good
[10:37] <cbx33> hehe
[10:37] <cbx33> LaserJock, it was your great docs ;)
[10:37] <mdz> Keybuk: anything further?
[10:37] <Keybuk> nothing from me
[10:37] <ogra> cbx33, btw a good comunity doesnt only consist of people helping you, its also a matter how you ask your questions ;)
[10:37] <cbx33> ogra, noted
[10:37] <ogra> its a two way thing ;)
[10:38] <cbx33> of course ;)
[10:38] <mdz> ok, votes
[10:38] <mjg59> +1 based on testimony and impressive contributions so far
[10:38] <mdz> +1, thanks for your contributions
[10:39] <Keybuk> +1, I think in any circumstance where you haven't got skills so far, you know where and who to ask and how to help others learn after you
[10:39] <pygi> congrats cbx33 :)
[10:39] <rodarvus> cbx33, congratulations!
[10:39] <cbx33> w00t....thank you everyone
[10:39] <dholbach> congratulations cbx33
[10:39] <Fujitsu> Congratulations, cbx33!
[10:39] <ogra> well deserved !
[10:39] <bddebian> w00t go cbx33
[10:39] <Keybuk> I don't believe q-funk has arrived
[10:39] <mdz> cbx33: congratulations and welcome
[10:39] <cbx33> thank you mdz 
[10:39] <mjg59> Do we have any other business?
[10:39] <Keybuk> and I'm not aware of any people pending ubuntu-core-dev membersjip
[10:40] <mdz> we need to clear out the ubuntu-dev proposed members list
[10:40] <Keybuk> what's the procedure for doing that?
[10:40] <mdz> what's needed is to email each applicant and find out what their status is
[10:41] <Keybuk> get dholbach to mail them?
[10:41] <dholbach> I mailed each and everyone of them
[10:41] <dholbach> (that had a public mail address)
[10:41] <dholbach> and notified mdz of everyone of them mailing me back
[10:41] <mdz> dholbach: so these are the ones who did not respond?
[10:41] <dholbach> yes
[10:42] <Keybuk> shall we decline them all, they will get a mail as a result
[10:42] <mdz> dholbach: if you can confirm the dates when you mailed them, I'll expire the applications
[10:42] <dholbach> I usually do it the day or the next day I work, but yeah - I can compile a list and double-check
[10:42] <Keybuk> mdz: there's a mass-decline facility now
[10:42] <LaserJock> heh
[10:42] <Keybuk> we should do the same for core-dev
[10:44] <mdz> dholbach: it would be good form to note the date of the mail in the message when they're declined; I wouldn't want to accidentally decline someone inapporpriately
[10:44] <dholbach> ok, i'll mail you the list tomorrow
[10:44] <mdz> dholbach: no big hurry, it can wait until after beta
[10:44] <mdz> sometime before the next TB meeting
[10:44] <dholbach> ok
[10:45] <bddebian> Yeah, whack me :-)
[10:45] <ogra> just dont wipe sbalneav, he just applied ;)
[10:45] <sbalneav> :)
[10:45] <mdz> ok, I think we're done
[10:46] <mc44_> I just had a quick question; re: mozilla/debian trademark business, I gather some ubuntu people are talking to Mozilla about this, would it be possible for someone to send a mail to -devel about whats happening/or when a decision is made, to clarify the situation?
[10:46] <mdz> mc44_: I have a dialog with Mike Connor at Mozilla on this issue
[10:46] <mdz> that's all there is to say so far; if there's news, I'll mail -devel
[10:46] <mc44_> mdz, great, thanks
[10:46] <mdz> last email was yesterday
[10:47] <mdz> ok, thanks everyone
[10:47] <mdz> adjourned
[10:47] <mc44_> mdz, yeah, i would have waited to ask but as it was TB today.. :)
[10:47] <mdz> such a lively crowd tonight if I may say
[10:47] <ogra> :)
[10:47] <LaserJock> :-)
[10:47] <ogra> compared to the last three meetings for sure 
[10:47] <pygi> :-D
[11:21] <Tonio_> Riddell: knetworkmanager tested and working, I'm responding to timo
[11:23] <sabdfl> evening all
[11:23] <Fujitsu> Hi sabdfl :)
[11:23] <pygi> evening
[11:24] <sabdfl> am i too late for the TB action?
[11:24] <ajmitch> yes, it finished awhile ago
[11:25] <sabdfl> ah. well, i was busily writing up sponsorships for UDS Mountain View :-)
[11:25] <ajmitch> we'll know by monday, I take it? 
[11:26] <sabdfl> in your case, sooner if you want
[11:28] <Toadstool> that's so frustrating, for UDS Paris I was 400kms away from the summit but it was during my exams and now I am a few hundreds miles away from Moutain View but I'll be working :/
[11:28] <bddebian> Toadstool: Me too :-(
[11:29] <pygi> Toadstool, bddebian :'(
[11:29] <Toadstool> (and I am supposed to be working now :p)