[01:36] <Hobbsee_> @now sydney
[01:36] <Ubugtu> Current time in Australia/Sydney: September 27 2006, 21:36:41 - Next meeting: Edubuntu in 8 hours 23 minutes
[01:45] <fabbione> @schedule Rome
[01:45] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 27 Sep 22:00: Edubuntu | 29 Sep 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Sep 18:00: Ubuntu Desktop Effects Team | 03 Oct 19:00: Community Council | 04 Oct 14:00: Edubuntu | 05 Oct 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team
[01:45] <fabbione> hmm something is wrong
[01:45] <fabbione> shouldn't the Devel meeting be the 28th?
[01:45] <flint> @now
[01:45] <Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: September 27 2006, 11:45:54 - Next meeting: Edubuntu in 8 hours 14 minutes
[01:46] <Fujitsu> @schedule
[01:46] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 27 Sep 20:00: Edubuntu | 28 Sep 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Sep 16:00: Ubuntu Desktop Effects Team | 03 Oct 17:00: Community Council | 04 Oct 12:00: Edubuntu | 05 Oct 07:00: Ubuntu Development Team
[01:46] <fabbione> hey flint !
[01:46] <Fujitsu> fabbione, there.
[01:46] <Fujitsu> fabbione, you're just in a silly timezone.
[01:47] <fabbione> hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
[05:53] <zul> @schedule montreal
[05:53] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 27 Sep 16:00: Edubuntu | 28 Sep 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Sep 12:00: Ubuntu Desktop Effects Team | 03 Oct 13:00: Community Council | 04 Oct 08:00: Edubuntu | 05 Oct 03:00: Ubuntu Development Team
[06:59] <rodarvus> @schedule Sao_Paulo
[06:59] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Sao_Paulo: 27 Sep 17:00: Edubuntu | 28 Sep 20:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Sep 13:00: Ubuntu Desktop Effects Team | 03 Oct 14:00: Community Council | 04 Oct 09:00: Edubuntu | 05 Oct 04:00: Ubuntu Development Team
[07:36] <sharms> @schedule Chicago
[07:36] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 27 Sep 15:00: Edubuntu | 28 Sep 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Sep 11:00: Ubuntu Desktop Effects Team | 03 Oct 12:00: Community Council | 04 Oct 07:00: Edubuntu | 05 Oct 02:00: Ubuntu Development Team
[08:12] <lguerra> @calendar Bogota
[08:12] <lfittl> @schedule vienna
[08:12] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Vienna: 27 Sep 22:00: Edubuntu | 29 Sep 18:00: Ubuntu Desktop Effects Team | 03 Oct 19:00: Community Council | 04 Oct 14:00: Edubuntu | 05 Oct 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Oct 22:00: Technical Board
[08:13] <lguerra> @schedule bogota
[08:13] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Bogota: 27 Sep 15:00: Edubuntu | 29 Sep 11:00: Ubuntu Desktop Effects Team | 03 Oct 12:00: Community Council | 04 Oct 07:00: Edubuntu | 05 Oct 02:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Oct 15:00: Technical Board
[09:53] <sbalneav> Present
[09:59] <ogra> past
[09:59] <sbalneav> Future ahoy!
[09:59] <ogra> :)
[10:00] <rodarvus> hi there
[10:00] <ogra> so do we want to start ? 
[10:01] <AliasVegas> Hi rodarvus
[10:01] <cbx33> hey RichEd 
[10:01] <RichEd> hello all
[10:01] <RichEd> hey cbx33 :)
[10:01] <willvdl> Hey cbx33
[10:01] <sbalneav> Is hedgemage going to be here?
[10:01] <cbx33> I hope so
[10:01] <rodarvus> hii AliasVegas!
[10:01] <ajmitch> ooh, edubuntu
[10:02] <cbx33> hehe
[10:02] <rodarvus> (double "i" on "hii" accidental ;) )
[10:02] <willvdl> Amaranth, you can't hide from us!
[10:02] <cbx33> does it mean something different ?
[10:02] <cbx33> :p
[10:02] <willvdl> only if you have hiccups
[10:03] <cbx33> willvdl, heheh
[10:03] <ogra> sooo
[10:03] <cbx33> beta ready?
[10:03] <ogra> tech :
[10:03] <ogra> beta still in testing ...
[10:04] <ogra> i386 is golden ... apart from a bug that hangs the machine on reboots instead of restarting it properly
[10:04] <Amaranth> heh, really "golden" :)
[10:04] <cbx33> oh
[10:04] <ogra> but that might also be my amd64 
[10:04] <cbx33> ogra, want me to check it out in a VM?
[10:04] <ogra> i have no real i386 around so i hope to get some more results on that bug from someone else
[10:04] <cbx33> I can start the download now if you want?
[10:04] <Amaranth> a vm is the worst place to test a potential hardware bug, it's too clean
[10:05] <ogra> powerpc finally finished rsyncing ... i'll start testing after the meeting
[10:05] <cbx33> Amaranth, true
[10:05] <ogra> amd64 the same
[10:05] <cbx33> I could possibly test on my lappie tomorrow
[10:05] <ogra> but all in all its looking very good
[10:05] <cbx33> excellent
[10:05] <ogra> actually its the first release that achieves all goals i had set myself when i started with edubuntu
[10:05] <lucasvo> hi
[10:05] <ogra> it doesnt need to hide from k12ltsp ;)
[10:05] <rodarvus> unless the bug is due to bootsplash (ie, not hardware related) it is hard to even get it on some/most i386
[10:06] <AliasVegas> hi lucasvo
[10:06] <ogra> it worked with the builds i tested with the -8 kernel 
[10:06] <ogra> currently we are at -10
[10:06] <ogra> so i suspect an acpi/kernel bug
[10:06] <cbx33> ahhh
[10:06] <cbx33> would make sense
[10:06] <rodarvus> s/hardware/kernel/ on my last sentence (thinko)
[10:07] <Amaranth> -7 and -8 are the last versions that work for a lot of people on the forums, i wouldn't be surprised
[10:07] <ogra> apart from that all autoconfig is working fine ... if you install on a machine with two network cards you have a running edubuntu ltsp server after 1h with no manual work involved
[10:07] <Amaranth> ogra: hawt
[10:07] <ogra> even my mother could install it ;)
[10:07] <Amaranth> Why does it take an hour? :)
[10:07] <ogra> including printing on clients, local devices, sound etc
[10:08] <ogra> because the installer takes that long
[10:08] <cbx33> because it's so awesome you sit in awe for 30 mins ;)
[10:08] <Amaranth> daaamn
[10:08] <Amaranth> I guess I'm spoiled by the ubuntu desktop cd
[10:08] <ogra> 45mins for a usual ubuntu alternate install ... 10 mins for the ltsp setup 
[10:08] <Amaranth> 20 minutes from boot to done :)
[10:08] <pips1> hi all
[10:08] <LaserJock> Amaranth: heh, it's like 2hr on my computer
[10:08] <ogra> yes, the desktop CDs are way faster 
[10:09] <RichEd> hi pips1 :) thanks for the mail earlier today ...
[10:09] <cbx33> it was less than an hour on my new machine ;)
[10:09] <ogra> i'll look into the possibility of using the liveCD in edgy+1
[10:09] <Amaranth> edubuntu is really exciting  now :)
[10:09] <ogra> there are some options you can use for nfs to make it work with unionfs ... 
[10:09] <ogra> so it might move into the range of possibilities
[10:09] <ollis> just wanted to say thanks to you guys; lab up an running in 2hours; great on old machines
[10:09] <ogra> i.e. liveCD with running ltsp server ... 
[10:10] <ogra> ollis, thats good news :)
[10:10] <ogra> so all i can say ... test test test guys !
[10:10] <ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/current/
[10:10] <ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily-live/current/
[10:10] <lucasvo> will do
[10:10] <ogra> and note results here 
[10:11] <ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Current?action=show
[10:11] <ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Current indeed
[10:11] <cbx33> ogra, will do
[10:11] <ogra> thast all from the tech side for now ... next week we should start discussing the edgy+1 specs 
[10:12] <ogra> especially the liveCDs need testing ... my isos are heavily otdated and i have bandwidth probs over here
[10:12] <ogra> i have all install isos around now and wont go to sleep before i'm done with them all
[10:12] <LaserJock> I think it's also worth mentioniing cbx33's MOTU ship
[10:12] <cbx33> I'll try and test one tomorrow
[10:13] <ogra> oh, right 
[10:13] <ogra> cbx33 is a motu now ;)
[10:13] <ogra> approved in yesterdays TB meeting 
[10:13] <rodarvus> \o/
[10:13] <cbx33> yup was touch and go fro a while
[10:13] <ogra> cbx33, make sure thats mentioned in te meeting notes ;)
[10:13] <cbx33> ok will do
[10:13] <cbx33> I hope to have those done tomorrow this time round
[10:14] <ogra> take your time ... testing isos is more important ;)
[10:14] <cbx33> ok
[10:14] <ogra> we'll release beta tomorrow during the day 
[10:14] <cbx33> I'll download live now, well after 10pm and then test tomorrow morning
[10:14] <LaserJock> ogra: any pressing non-LTSP issues that MOTU or core-dev wannabes can look at?
[10:14] <ogra> thats the time every iso should have been installed at least once 
[10:14] <ogra> heh
[10:15] <ogra> someone could fix gnome-screensaver for me :)
[10:15] <ogra> no, not really ... at least i'm not aware of any
[10:15] <rodarvus> oh, I also have many bugs worth looking at! :D
[10:15] <cbx33> what's up with it?
[10:15] <rodarvus> if you're looking for fun
[10:15] <ogra> do we have any bugs on the edubuntu-bugs team list ?
[10:15] <rodarvus> not edubuntu bugs in my case, though
[10:16] <cbx33> heheh
[10:16] <ogra> cbx33, its giving me headaches :) i'll try to get rid of it in edgy+1
[10:16] <cbx33> ah ok np
[10:16] <ogra> i was always the screensaver/power-manager guy ...
[10:16] <cbx33> heheh
[10:16] <ogra> but both packages havent seen much love from my side this release ... simply because time was so short
[10:17] <cbx33> C?
[10:17] <ogra> and mdz wasnt happy about my bugcount last release already 
[10:17] <ogra> if i cant cope with it i need to hand it over to someone
[10:18] <ogra> power-management is a critical part  ... it deserves someone with some time for it
[10:18] <cbx33> ogra, I'd offer to take that up
[10:18] <willvdl> and is a dark art to my mind
[10:18] <cbx33> but I know little about it at the moment
[10:18] <ogra> (not that i suspect to have as much to do next release, since we have 6 months again)
[10:19] <rodarvus> edgy was a bit hectic on this regard - the release cycle was even shorter than usual
[10:19] <cbx33> ogra, that's true
[10:19] <ogra> edgy was surely the release that got the biggest development bump in edzbuntu and ltsp yet
[10:19] <rodarvus> and a huge flux of new features was expected
[10:19] <cbx33> ogra, totally
[10:19] <ogra> but it was also the shortest one we ever did
[10:19] <cbx33> well if you guys want a hand with anything next releease instead of me looking for things to do
[10:19] <rodarvus> (but its 'edgy' after all)
[10:19] <cbx33> just shout
[10:19] <ogra> cbx33, would be nice if we could get perfection into SCP ;)
[10:20] <cbx33> ogra, it's on my To Do list
[10:20] <ogra> to make it *the* preferred admin tool at some point
[10:20] <cbx33> with 6 months I should have much more time
[10:20] <ogra> yeah
[10:20] <cbx33> w00t
[10:20] <cbx33> and I'll start earlier
[10:20] <ogra> and i expect to have some nice specs next release ...
[10:20] <cbx33> ooooh
[10:20] <ogra> more detailed than just "finish the carp"
[10:21] <LaserJock> yeah, I'm excited about the edgy+1 specs
[10:21] <cbx33> all laid out for you
[10:21] <cbx33> ;)
[10:21] <ogra> yep
[10:21] <cbx33> it's gonna be fun
[10:21] <cbx33> hope i get to UDS 
[10:21] <ogra> but lest keep that for next release
[10:21] <ogra> we'll likely know next week ...
[10:21] <ogra> (who is coming etc)
[10:21] <cbx33> yeh monday apparently
[10:22] <cbx33> I overheard ajmitch and sabdfl talking yesterdya :p
[10:22] <ogra> so that should give us some time to focus on the preparation
[10:22] <rodarvus> will be nice to have this time in advance to prepare for UDS
[10:22] <ogra> right
[10:22] <rodarvus> I'll likely take the next two or three weeks preparing for UDS
[10:22] <ogra> i will likely be travelling from end of oct already ...
[10:22] <rodarvus> instead of the one or two days I had for UDS Paris :P
[10:22] <cbx33> phew always on the go eh ogra 
[10:23] <ogra> and it seems i wont get home for the whole november
[10:23] <ogra> cbx33, yes, sadly :(
[10:23] <Amaranth> monday?
[10:23] <cbx33> ogra, :(
[10:23] <Amaranth> woo, the suspense is already killing me :)
[10:23] <ogra> it gets to much travelling for my taste ... but i cant help it ...
[10:24] <ogra> i'm invited by the skolelinux people to hold a talk and talk about collaboration on the weekend of oct 15th btw ...
[10:24] <LaserJock> ogra's the Edubuntu super star
[10:24] <ogra> RichEd, ^^^^
[10:24] <cbx33> I'm hoping to pop up to the linux conf in london after UDS
[10:24] <RichEd> great ...
[10:24] <ogra> the have their development lab ~300km from me
[10:24] <RichEd> that's the german branch ?
[10:25] <rodarvus> Amaranth, did you apply for sponsorhip? (couldn't find your nick on the wiki page)
[10:25] <LaserJock> ogra: is that debian jr. or debian edu?
[10:25] <mjg59> cbx33: Which linux conf in London?
[10:25] <Amaranth> rodarvus: yeah
[10:25] <ogra> and wanted me last year already, but it clashed with release
[10:25] <Amaranth> rodarvus: Travis Watkins, last one on the list
[10:25] <rodarvus> ah!
[10:25] <ogra> LaserJock, skolelinux
[10:25] <cbx33> the big one
[10:25] <ogra> the greman branch
[10:25] <cbx33> 25-26ths isnt it?
[10:25] <ogra> *german
[10:25] <rodarvus> I expected to find an email with 'amaranth' on it :)
[10:25] <Amaranth> hehe
[10:25] <mjg59> cbx33: October - that's before UDS, isn't it?
[10:25] <cbx33> oh yeh
[10:25] <cbx33> of coruse
[10:25] <cbx33> silly me
[10:25] <cbx33> I keep getting these months mixed up
[10:26] <sivang> cbx33: which linux conf in london ?
[10:26] <LaserJock> ogra: but aren't don't they come from a CDD? maybe not
[10:26] <mjg59> sivang: Linuxworldexpolala
[10:26] <RichEd> good stuff ogra : we must nework with Knut to see if we can help with more / wider relationship
[10:26] <RichEd> *network
[10:26] <ogra> LaserJock, they are a CDD of debian-edu
[10:26] <ogra> RichEd, right
[10:26] <sivang> mjg59: ohh, I should have know then I would have prepare my vacation properly, but then gf would have killed me ;-)
[10:26] <pips1> sorry, I missed the beginning of the meeting... when is beta release exactly ? (what time?) until when do we have to test the cds?
[10:26] <sbalneav> I can speak a bit to the handbook when the time comes.
[10:27] <RichEd> ogra: I'll send you his recent mail .. he had a wish list for us
[10:27] <cbx33> http://www.linuxworldexpo.co.uk/
[10:27] <ogra> sivang, i know how that feels ... i get killed frequently here
[10:27] <sivang> ogra: heh
[10:27] <ogra> RichEd, great
[10:27] <ogra> right, lets get back on track
[10:27] <ogra> DOCUMENTATION !
[10:27] <ogra> scottie 
[10:27] <rodarvus> pips1, beta release is as soon as its finished. its well underway for a few days
[10:27] <ogra> tell us about your plans :)
[10:28] <rodarvus> (beta freeze is in place since last developers meeting, actually)
[10:28] <ogra> pips1, we try to release tomorrow ...
[10:28] <lucasvo> hi pips1 
[10:28] <sbalneav> Well, about 3 weeks ago, I offered to HedgeMage to update/improve the LTSP section of the handbook.
[10:28] <ogra> i cant tell any time 
[10:28] <ogra> everybody listen to sbalneav :)
[10:28] <cbx33> I'm listening
[10:28] <pips1> hi lucasvo
[10:29] <sbalneav> I asked jammcq, who offered to let us yank whatever was relevant from his 40+ pages of docs on ltsp.org
[10:29] <ogra> sbalneav, did you go through whats already there ? 
[10:29] <sbalneav> w/ attribution, of course.
[10:29] <sbalneav> ogra: Yes, fixed up some of it.
[10:29] <ogra> (on our side i mean)
[10:29] <ogra> cool !
[10:29] <sbalneav> I'm in the process of updating the stuff.  I've got the "Theory of operation" section 1/2 done, and when ogra gets a bit of time....
[10:30] <sbalneav> I'll fully document all the lts.conf entries.
[10:30] <ogra> sbalneav, you know that we have an offer from a german group that would like to translate and release a printed version (for bookstores) ?
[10:30] <cbx33> sbalneav, if you need a proofer
[10:30] <cbx33> just ask
[10:30] <sbalneav> The ltsp section has tripled in size in the last 2 weeks.
[10:30] <ogra> they are just waiting for my go 
[10:30] <ogra> WOW !
[10:31] <sbalneav> I can easily add more.  Now that most of the code stuff is done, I'm planning on put about 2 hours/day work on it.
[10:31] <ogra> yeah
[10:31] <ogra> there is a bunch
[10:31] <Amaranth> sbalneav: Rock!
[10:31] <sbalneav> But that's only the ltsp section of the book, you'd have to ask hedgemage for progress on the rest.
[10:31] <ogra> sbalneav, WOW ... not to say WOW !!!
[10:31] <ogra> right
[10:32] <ogra> we'll need docs for things like student-control-panel
[10:32] <cbx33> ogra, I'm going to work on those
[10:32] <ogra> and probably steal some parts from the ubuntu documentation
[10:32] <ogra> for the general stuff
[10:32] <rodarvus> how active is documentation on Ubuntu?
[10:32] <LaserJock> the edubuntu section of the doc team repo is still pretty scarce
[10:33] <LaserJock> I'd like to get stuff in there
[10:33] <ogra> even i'd like to just use that ubuntu parts, we'll get space probs if we ship two big -doc packages
[10:33] <pips1> what about documentation that goes onto the installer cds? (firefox greeting page? desktop help text (yelp)?)
[10:33] <ogra> right, that needs updates 
[10:33] <sbalneav> At the moment, we're working off of hedgemages svn repo, and when it's done, it'll all be submitted to the master bzr doco repo.
[10:33] <ogra> but for the ff age bumping the version number is enough worst case
[10:34] <ogra> *page
[10:34] <LaserJock> well, the doc team hasn't heard anything from Edubuntu for a while, it'd be nice to see a little activity there
[10:34] <ogra> i can do that last day with the last CD build if we dont get anything better ...
[10:34] <ogra> yes
[10:35] <cbx33> willvdl, anything further on ESA?
[10:36] <willvdl> not yet. I'm out of town on NEPAD stuff at the mo
[10:36] <cbx33> ah ok
[10:36] <RichEd> cbx33: I can give you some other supporting info ...
[10:36] <cbx33> RichEd, that's fine....just I rmember you saying it was quite a tight deadline
[10:36] <willvdl> I do think we need to look closely at what happens with larger edubuntu advocacy etc.
[10:37] <cbx33> wondering when I will start having to put the hours in ;)
[10:37] <willvdl> that's the spirit :)
[10:37] <RichEd> ChrisK (Business Development) and Christina (MARketying) have promised some completed case studies this coming week. So the tempalte doc moves from a mock up to a reality.
[10:38] <willvdl> RichEd, do they have a case study template?
[10:38] <RichEd> So we will try to piggy back off their momentum.
[10:39] <RichEd> The one ChrisK showed you ... I've forwarded it on to you now ?
[10:39] <sbalneav> ogra: getting close to the end of the day for you.  Why don't I get a rough draft of the lts.conf doco together tonight, you can yelp the xml file tomorrow, and let me know what I'm either missing, or have mistakenly included.
[10:39] <willvdl> okie. terminology error on my part
[10:39] <ogra> me, yelp ???
[10:39] <sbalneav> yeah, the help browser
[10:39] <ogra> sbalneav, i'm doing a beta release tomorrow :)
[10:39] <RichEd> We should have a real populated one from them and not just a template in the next week or so.
[10:39] <sbalneav> ok, later in the week then :)
[10:40] <ogra> we ca go through the lts.conf parameters after the meeting 
[10:40] <ogra> *can
[10:40] <sbalneav> Ah, k, if you've got the time.
[10:40] <ogra> i can do ppc testing aside ...
[10:40] <RichEd> I'll keep probing them for any actual print runs.
[10:40] <willvdl> ok, that's good news.
[10:40] <ogra> i only need this lappie for amd64 tests later this night
[10:40] <willvdl> cbx33, with that we can get artwork going nicely in the print version
[10:40] <ogra> but i have not much clue about the yelp xml format ...
[10:41] <ogra> jsgotangco would be our man there
[10:41] <ogra> or probably LaserJock 
[10:41] <willvdl> and populate with info from what is there already
[10:41] <cbx33> willvdl, yup
[10:41] <sbalneav> no worries, we'll go it in irc.
[10:42] <willvdl> will also have use cases by then, or at least a template mockup
[10:43] <pips1> ogra: I got A) amd64, B) powerpc G5 and C) i386 hardware, what are the priorities for testing?
[10:44] <ogra> pips1, two NICs would be good
[10:44] <pips1> ok
[10:44] <pips1> amd64 then
[10:44] <ogra> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuKnot3LTSPTesting has a list of things to test
[10:45] <ogra> you can keep your dhcp server on the router running now ;)
[10:45] <ogra> but attach the thin clients to the second NIC
[10:45] <cbx33> ogra did you want to add to that page about the SCP bugs
[10:45] <lucasvo> ogra: btw, what if one has 3 nics?
[10:45] <pips1> \o/
[10:45] <ogra> you get a selection menu
[10:45] <lucasvo> nice
[10:45] <ogra> (that needs some improvement though)
[10:45] <lucasvo> I'll try to test tomorrow
[10:45] <ogra> keep the names of the devices in mind from the first network page in the installer 
[10:46] <ogra> it oly asks about ethX, no name attached ...
[10:46] <lucasvo> it's kinda hard to determin which one is which. because they are the same model
[10:46] <ogra> the first installer net page actually says ethX (broadcom blah)
[10:46] <ogra> just keep in mind which you select in the first page ...
[10:47] <ogra> it will only offer unused devices
[10:47] <ogra> (in the second)
[10:48] <ogra> so, are we done with docs ? 
[10:48] <cbx33> sounds like it
[10:49] <willvdl> bit of both
[10:49] <ogra> ok, lets keep it fr community then if someone has to say something about it
[10:50] <cbx33> ok
[10:50] <pips1> well, the current website is mostly doc, but the new website will be mostly community :)
[10:50] <ogra> artwork ...
[10:50] <RichEd> well there is technical documentation and information documentation ... maybe we should split the agenda point for future ?
[10:50] <ogra> usplash suddenly needed a 640x480 theme ... 
[10:50] <ogra> RichEd, makes sense
[10:51] <ogra> so i just quickly scaled the 800x600 one we have ... which looks pretty awful
[10:51] <mjg59> ogra: It's needed one for weeks...
[10:51] <AliasVegas> i can get that done for you, when do you need it by?
[10:51] <ogra> mjg59, no other theme even has the code for it 
[10:51] <ogra> edubuntu is the only one yet
[10:51] <ogra> AliasVegas, after bea 
[10:51] <cbx33> w00t
[10:51] <ogra> *beta
[10:51] <AliasVegas> ok thats fine :)
[10:51] <mjg59> ogra: The code has been that way since the beginning of August
[10:51] <ogra> for beta the ugly one is fine for now
[10:52] <cbx33> is the 640x480 default?
[10:52] <ogra> mjg59, i looked into it when i cam back from detroit and didnt notice it before ...
[10:52] <mjg59> ogra: *shrug*. 
[10:52] <ogra> the code is in the edubuntu artwork package now, others know about it and can grab it
[10:52] <mjg59> Since the move to svgalib, we've needed 640x480
[10:52] <mjg59> The artwork team knows that
[10:52] <ogra> right
[10:53] <ogra> but the artwork packages are lacking some lines of code to handle/convert the pngs
[10:53] <ogra> its not beta critical imho
[10:53] <cbx33> ok
[10:53] <ogra> there are still some weeks to move it in every other artwork package
[10:53] <ogra> and since the artteam knows there should be artwork as well :)
[10:54] <ogra> afaik it wasnt planned that this mode is used at all ... might be that this is the prob
[10:55] <ogra> i have also some fixes pending to change edubuntu to te right cursor afetr beta and to fix some uglyness with the progressbar on thin clients (ltsp-client isnt respected as display manager yet, so the bar onyl is a thrd of its usual length)
[10:56] <ogra> and the gdm theme screenshot in the gdmsetup review window is missing ... aslo post beta stuff 
[10:56] <ogra> *preview
[10:57] <ogra> oh, and apparently gnome themes support default wallpapers now, i'll make sure they are used in the desktop theme selector as well ...
[10:57] <ogra> thats all from the tech side of artwork ...
[10:57] <cbx33> ogra, which wallpaper are we using for default
[10:57] <cbx33> the one on there was i thought the higher ed one
[10:57] <ogra> anything from the artistic side ? 
[10:57] <ogra> cbx33, the others are way to saturated ...
[10:58] <cbx33> AliasVegas, has just popped out
[10:58] <ogra> the higer edu one is the least intrusive ...
[10:58] <cbx33> but she was keen to start to get together the team for edgy + 1 art
[10:58] <cbx33> ogra, ok
[10:59] <ogra> thats would be cool
[10:59] <cbx33> we were very pushed this release
[10:59] <ogra> we once had a big artteam in breezy ... 
[10:59] <cbx33> albeit a short release anyway
[10:59] <ogra> in fact most contributions were art back then 
[10:59] <ogra> but somehw that died out over time 
[10:59] <ogra> getting that reactivated would be a major thing
[10:59] <cbx33> so please, if anyone is interested in art, let AliasVegas or join the eubuntu art...team.....do we have our own LP team?
[11:00] <cbx33> ogra, totally
[11:00] <ogra> yes
[11:00] <ogra> i think she even leads it
[11:00] <ogra> if not we should change that
[11:00] <cbx33> I'll check that now
[11:01] <AliasVegas> I'm really keen to get some people contributing to the artwork side of edgy +1
[11:01] <ogra> AliasVegas, that would be soo cool
[11:01] <cbx33> can we mail a LP group?
[11:01] <LaserJock> AliasVegas: maybe you could come up with some specific tasks, etc.
[11:01] <ogra> nope, i dont hink you can mail them
[11:01] <willvdl> what kind of contributions are the most needy
[11:02] <AliasVegas> we did have that this release..
[11:02] <cbx33> willvdl, all !
[11:02] <ogra> we need gdm theme, gnome splash, wallpapers
[11:02] <AliasVegas> but there were too few people
[11:02] <RichEd> AliasVegas: pips1 and I would also like some graphics help with web / portal / communityi
[11:02] <ogra> the icons could be anhanced
[11:02] <ogra> *en*
[11:02] <RichEd> we need to get a sub-comunity group going  ... and recruit some people to help
[11:02] <willvdl> ew, hate making icons :)
[11:02] <cbx33> willvdl, me too
[11:02] <ogra> ldm has a very low level theme (only plain colors and a logo)
[11:03] <AliasVegas> RichEd what is required?
[11:03] <ogra> well, if you make icons they should also fit into the theme ;)
[11:03] <RichEd> ? there must be people with skills who would love to have their art work on a few 100,000 installs of Edubuntu s/w or web pages.
[11:03] <willvdl> what are thoughts on leveraging ubuntu-artwork team as opposed to seperate edubuntu-art team?
[11:03] <cbx33> willvdl, we did try mailing out to the artwork, but reponse was small
[11:03] <RichEd> willvdl: there are some issues that are being thrashed out in a meeting soon around that
[11:04] <ogra> willvdl, ubuntu-artwork is the ubuntu team as the xubuntu.artwork team works focused on xubuntu etc
[11:04] <RichEd> it would be better to wait for ubuntu to get themselves sorted out ...
[11:04] <willvdl> cool.
[11:04] <ogra> willvdl, untl now every artteam has its focus and is vastly run by peope who also use the specific distro thesy desing for
[11:05] <willvdl> keeps own identity clear
[11:05] <willvdl> etc.
[11:05] <cbx33> willvdl, ++
[11:05] <ogra> i dont think that should change ... but thats my personal view
[11:05] <cbx33> ogra, I agree totally
[11:05] <willvdl> yeah, I see
[11:05] <ogra> dunno what sabdfl is planning 
[11:05] <willvdl> Well, I guess regardless of structure, folks will contribute to the product of their choice
[11:06] <ogra> yep
[11:06] <LaserJock> or all of them :-)
[11:06] <cbx33> hehehe
[11:06] <ogra> and if they do so they have to bear what they submitted one release ;)
[11:06] <ogra> (if its selected)
[11:06] <RichEd> As far as I know, there is also a brand identity pesdon who looks over all of the flavours ... so their is some cohesion.
[11:06] <ogra> so the quality should better be good ;P
[11:07] <cbx33> ogra, yes
[11:09] <ogra> ok, thats all about art ? 
[11:09] <cbx33> we'll get a bigger team for edgy + 1 I just know it
[11:09] <ogra> right, we need to be a bit louder ... and draw some attention ;)
[11:09] <Amaranth> is that it?
[11:09] <RichEd> I'll do a bridge topic between art & community then ... and answer AliasVegas's question above
[11:10] <RichEd> pips1 and I are working on a Community Site / Portal / User Space ... name still undecided. We're probably going to use Drupal and will need some help with colours and a site theme and a general look & feel.
[11:10] <ogra> great .. take over :) i'll go installing :)
[11:10] <RichEd> okay ... done ... g'luck
[11:10] <Amaranth> hey, before people take off
[11:10] <Amaranth> where should i send http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=1551927&postcount=1 to?
[11:10] <ogra> i'm not going away :)
[11:10] <Amaranth> don't ignore it just because it's a forum link :)
[11:11] <RichEd> The look & feel needs to fit nicely with all of the following:
[11:11] <RichEd> ubuntu.com
[11:11] <RichEd> edubuntu software
[11:12] <ogra> Amaranth, silbs i guess ...
[11:12] <RichEd> edubuntu.org - but this can evolve forwards
[11:12] <willvdl> Amaranth, that is a bizarre post
[11:12] <ogra> define edubuntu software 
[11:12] <RichEd> The desktop ... LTS & Edgy & Edgy+1
[11:12] <willvdl> ogra, colour schemes etc presumably
[11:13] <ogra> like student-control-panel or the planned ltsp-manager app ? my plans were rather to debrand them for wider usage
[11:13] <willvdl> icon styles
[11:13] <ogra> well, we wont look violet like kubuntu does
[11:13] <willvdl> ogra, are they not themeable?
[11:13] <RichEd> Well this is just broad brushstroke stuff to raise the topic, but it will probably be an item for some debate ...
[11:13] <ogra> willvdl, they are gnome apps and pick up the gnome theme 
[11:14] <willvdl> exactly. not sure I understand what you mean by debranding?
[11:14] <ogra> we use the gnome theme ubuntu uses currently ... but with a different colorset
[11:14] <RichEd> The intended site / space must fit a user who runs Ebuntu and comes in for support / community but also an Education user of Ubuntu (Education Tech Services) person looking for the same sort of support.
[11:14] <ogra> student-contol-panel has a header thats a png with the edubuntu logo in it
[11:15] <cbx33> ogra, want me to remove that with my last patch?#
[11:15] <willvdl> ah. gotcha
[11:15] <ogra> i'm planning to drop that for a toolbar or a menubar later
[11:15] <ogra> cbx33, no
[11:15] <LaserJock> argg, I'm totally lost
[11:15] <ogra> as long as we dont have something in replacement it will look odd
[11:15] <cbx33> ok
[11:16] <ogra> the ui needs s lot of love still i dont like the buttons etc ... we'll need to look into that in edgy+1
[11:16] <RichEd> It needs to also be able to hive off from a landing page into a kids area look & feel ... young person support ...
[11:16] <ogra> no
[11:16] <ogra> it should work for all ages (remember its a tool for teaches)
[11:16] <ogra> *teachers)
[11:16] <RichEd> As well as a grey hair decision maker reading about Eduation Advocacy
[11:16] <ogra> right
[11:17] <RichEd> I'm talking about the user space ... with categories of areas for user types
[11:17] <willvdl> but the option could be there for different solution spaces within the product
[11:17] <RichEd> So we need a happy middle ground.
[11:17] <ogra> exactly
[11:17] <RichEd> we'll need to look into that in edgy+1 <- this is a good comment ...
[11:17] <ogra> it must work for lower grades as well as for unis
[11:17] <ogra> if that doesnt work we need an easy opportunity to change it
[11:17] <RichEd> pips1 and I said we would like to design the look & feel to look like edgy+1 when it comes out
[11:17] <ogra> and ship two or more themes
[11:18] <willvdl> by default and then themes that can be applied at wim?
[11:18] <cbx33> RichEd, sounds like you guys need to be on the artwork team
[11:18] <ogra> yep
[11:18] <RichEd> *don't forget I am talking user space*
[11:18] <ogra> thats what we do currently already btw
[11:18] <ogra> it could need improvement, but the base is there
[11:18] <RichEd> if we can get the user spaces l&f for each category agreed by consensus for the web site ... it provides a way forward for the software
[11:19] <willvdl> thought so. sorry, I'm losing the thread a bit :)
[11:19] <LaserJock> is there a relatively straightforward way to switch themes?
[11:19] <LaserJock> like young, school, uni themes
[11:19] <RichEd> cbx33: yep ... we'd like to see if we can help rectruit to expand the art team
[11:19] <LaserJock> are there tools out ther for that?
[11:20] <pips1> LaserJock: do you mean a tool for switching the edubuntu desktop theme? 
[11:20] <pips1> ?
[11:20] <ogra> LaserJock, the theme selector in the desktop offers plain and default currently
[11:20] <RichEd> with AliasVegas being the coordinator :) and having lost of sub-input / sub-designs sent to her for nice finishing & wrapping
[11:20] <RichEd> *lots not lost
[11:20] <ogra> default is a tad younger ... plain should be rather for unis
[11:21] <LaserJock> ogra: that's at install?
[11:21] <LaserJock> or after?
[11:21] <AliasVegas> that sounds good
[11:21] <ogra> LaserJock, the theme selector of GNOME
[11:22] <RichEd> ogra & LaserJock : we should link the l&f theme swop to a dynamic menu swop for edgy+1 ?
[11:22] <ogra> you can also run sudo dpkg-reconfigure edubuntu-artwork ...
[11:22] <pips1> LaserJock: System > Preferences > Theme
[11:22] <pips1> ?
[11:22] <ogra> but thats rather for admins to reset the theme defaults
[11:22] <LaserJock> well, but I'm thinking you should be able to select from 2-3 themes
[11:23] <cbx33> peronsaly themes?
[11:23] <LaserJock> that change wallpaper, icons, gtk, etc.
[11:23] <cbx33> personal themes
[11:23] <LaserJock> no, I'm just saying, if I put an Edubuntu CD to show my profs they are going to laugh at the theme
[11:23] <LaserJock> we need to have a better way of dealing with the huge age range
[11:24] <pips1> ah
[11:24] <LaserJock> and  doing so as early as we can
[11:24] <pips1> are you talking about the live cd default theme?
[11:24] <LaserJock> well, we don't really use the live cd much
[11:24] <sbalneav> ogra: I have to head home for the day.  I'll go through the source tonight, and send a draft to you tomorrow.  Whenever you get done with the beta-ing, (i'll test tonight as well), let me know.
[11:25] <LaserJock> but if I were a uni sysadmin and I wanted to set up a LTSP lab
[11:25] <LaserJock> I'd be a little turned off by the default theming
[11:25] <RichEd> pips1 and I are currently profiling the User & Stakeholder sets and will soon have a short list of the significant target audience categories
[11:25] <LaserJock> now *I* know that there's more to Edubuntu and you can pretty easily change that stuff
[11:25] <LaserJock> but somebody trying it out probably won't
[11:26] <RichEd> we will create a space on the web area for each significant category of user and ask them more about what *they* want
[11:26] <ogra> sbalneav, k, thanks  ... i'll surely have some idle hours waiting for new isos tomorrow
[11:27] <RichEd> if we can then get the web area looking like a nice comfy fit for their needs, this can guide the themes / editions whatever we need to produce for the desktop
[11:28] <willvdl> market survey as such?
[11:28] <RichEd> yes ... community feedback ...
[11:29] <RichEd> pips1 told me the other day that the Ubuntu artwork goes out for a selection through a drupal driven poll 
[11:29] <willvdl> Melissa Draper did some work on surveys
[11:29] <RichEd> So we can do the same thing in principle.
[11:29] <willvdl> The ubuntu-marketing team has some raw data we could use
[11:30] <RichEd> The background feeling is that we (as people with a techie bent) can only guess what the teacher / pupil / student wants ...
[11:30] <pips1> what I told RichEd is that http://art.ubuntu.com/ allows uploaded art to be rated/voted on
[11:31] <RichEd> If we want to get a better understanding, we need to ask the actual target audience, or else watch them debating with each other in end-user topic forums
[11:32] <RichEd> If anyone is interested, you can see the initial list of stakeholders / users here:
[11:32] <RichEd> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/education/planning/profiling
[11:33] <ogra> pips1, i thought that was shot down 
[11:33] <RichEd> Note that this is a work in progress ... it has a huge number of categories .. and some are of little or no signifcance at the moment.
[11:33] <pips1> ogra: what do you mean by "that was shot down"? huh?
[11:34] <ogra> the artteam asked for it
[11:34] <willvdl> but the main categories are quite good
[11:35] <RichEd> We want to list all possible people who have an interest in Education and Ubuntu or Edubuntu ... and then decide how to lump them into manageable categories, and prioritise them for engagement in a community space.
[11:35] <RichEd> 1st priority is people we can satisfy now, with existing edubuntu product.
[11:36] <RichEd> 2nd priority is people we can satisfy now, with existing ubuntu product.
[11:36] <RichEd> and then we will look at who else is a significant target sector, and relate against how much work is needed to get them happy
[11:36] <ogra> pips1, the artteam asked that it should be shot down and replacesd with something different soe day
[11:36] <ogra> *some
[11:38] <RichEd> so, for example, if we added an easy way to change the "young scholar" look & feel to a "teenage student" look & feel, without much dev work, that would appear to be a good focus. Just an example for now.
[11:38] <pips1> ogra:  ah, you mean 'art.ubuntu.com' should be replaced some day?
[11:39] <LaserJock> RichEd: exactly, that's what I'm after
[11:39] <ogra> pips1, nope, they asked for it to get shot down first ... *then* later they want a replacement ...
[11:41] <RichEd> Any futher comments / questions ... anyone ?
[11:42] <RichEd> Or else I will take it offline with LaserJock ... and we can wrap in here for tonight.
[11:42] <willvdl> Drupal should be able to theme quite easily
[11:42] <willvdl> not too sure about moin moin
[11:43] <RichEd> Yep. Drupal is our first choice. We're hoping for an independent hosted box we can play on without restriction.
[11:44] <RichEd> We need web, and forums, and blog options, all able to be created on the fly ... and with pips1 as the owner of editor author permission set.
[11:44] <cbx33> I'm over and out guys
[11:44] <AliasVegas> me too
[11:44] <pips1> cu cbx33
[11:44] <RichEd> okay ... if that's all ... going once ...
[11:44] <AliasVegas> see you guys later
[11:44] <willvdl> ciao
[11:44] <RichEd> okay ... if that's all ... going twice ...
[11:44] <pips1> bYE AliasVegas willvdl
[11:44] <LaserJock> cya all
[11:45] <RichEd> done. thanks all. 
[11:45] <willvdl> woop
[11:45] <pips1> thanks
[11:45] <RichEd> pips1: thanks for the emails today. I am 80% done with the initial profile page, and will dig into them tomorrow
[11:45] <pips1> ok