[12:20] <ogra> sigh
[12:20] <ogra> Keybuk, uploads are queued, right ? 
[12:27] <mdz> mvo: back
[12:28] <mdz> ajmitch: yes, I think MOTU should take responsibility for that but I'm happy to advise
[12:28] <mvo> how did it went?
[12:28] <mdz> mvo: so what are we doing about 61684?
[12:28] <mdz> mvo: clean bill of health, my teeth are lovely
[12:28] <mvo> mdz: great! congrats :)
[12:29] <ogra> mdz, i found a bug that breaks my ppc and amd64 builds ... do you know if its safe to upload a new ltsp (can tollef cherrypick that package if i do that) to get new isos in the morning ?
[12:29] <ajmitch> mdz: ok, we have a team of dholbach, slomo & siretart to handle exceptions for universe now
[12:29] <ogra> i know they are queued ...
[12:29] <jdong> mjg59: http://pastebin.com/795775
[12:29] <mvo> mdz: we have two options (well, three): a) empty /var/lib/apt/extended_states b) upload new apt with a single line patch c) ignore the thing [I don't like c)] 
[12:30] <mdz> ogra: uploads are queued
[12:30] <mdz> mvo: b)
[12:30] <ogra> mdz, right, but can he cherrypick it (or does he need to accept all of the queue)
[12:30] <mdz> ogra: they are processed individually
[12:31] <ogra> ok, then i'll upload and send him a mail to ask for new isos ...
[12:31] <ogra> its so silly ... grmbl
[12:33] <mdz> ogra: what's the bug# for your issue?
[12:33] <ogra> just filing it ... 
[12:33] <ogra> i moved mknbi for early packages to ltsp-client arch specific deps (i thought) but missed to remove it from early  packages
[12:36] <ogra> mdz, bug 62690
[12:36] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62690 in ltsp "mknbi dependency breaks powerpc and amd64 installs" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62690
[12:36] <mdz> ok, 62690 and 61684 are the only issues I am aware of for beta
[12:36] <mdz> if there's anything further I ought to know about, please yell (and get a bug filed with the beta milestone)
[12:37] <ogra> sure, i will ... but there should be none ... if i remove mknbi for the early_packages variable it even finishes the install
[12:37] <mjg59> jdong: Ha. That's the code I just added. Hang on.
[12:37] <mdz> mvo: is there any way you can confirm whether the livefs build script is doing the right thing?
[12:37] <mdz> mvo: if it isn't, your fix won't correct the problem
[12:37] <ogra> i would have catched it this afternoon already if i had the isos ... damn telekom
[12:38] <mdz> sfllaw: any problems uncovered in the lab?
[12:39] <mdz> you reference bug 62689 in the wiki...
[12:39] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62689 in debian-installer "Hangs at 2% of "Select and install software"" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62689
[12:39] <doko_> think, I found the cause for the OOo build failure. we'll see tomorrow, if the build succeeds
[12:40] <doko_> good night
[12:40] <mdz> mvo: you may want to have a look at 62689; it seems to be apt which is stalled
[12:42] <mvo> mdz: hfsutils is installed on recent live-cds. that is a indicator that the livefs build uses the new apt taskinstall-code (becaue hfsutils is no direct dependency of ubuntu-standard on i386 but has a task header)
[12:44] <jdub> ha ha ha ha ha
[12:44] <jdub> ESR -> Freespire Leadership Board
[12:44] <Fujitsu> ... really?
[12:44] <jdong> ha crap mjg59, that usplash crash might not be valid... I just realized it built in a dapper pbuilder
[12:44] <tseng> jdub: can't wait for the cartoon
[12:44] <Burgundavia> Fujitsu: yep
[12:44] <jdub> http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/09-27-2006/0004440536&EDATE=
[12:45] <Fujitsu> Ow.
[12:45] <jdub> so, apparently it's true: they really *don't* have anyone there who knows anything about how the floss world works
[12:45] <Burgundavia> jdub: did you see the review by the Free Agent of Freespire. He was not impressed and thought that Ubunut (and OpenSUSE) were just as good
[12:45] <jdub> just reading it
[12:45] <jdub> but he was an ubuntu fanboy way back
[12:45] <Fujitsu> Darn.
[12:45] <mvo> sfllaw: is #62689 reproducable? or do you have the machine with that failure still runing?
[12:46] <mvo> mdz: I would like to upload a ddtp tarball bug #59673. is that acceptable for the beta? its not critial though
[12:46] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 59673 in synaptic "Synaptic shows a description in incorrect language for korean" [High,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/59673
[12:47] <ijuz> jdub: when you buy freespire consulting from ESR you get a free gun ;)
[12:48] <jdub> "When you get right down to it, there's really no comparison: Ubuntu's package management is easier and more attractive."
[12:48] <jdub> ^ on click'n'run
[12:48] <jdong> that's right, let the egos fly free :)
[12:49] <jdong> mjg59: false alarm; usplash still segfaults
[12:50] <mjg59> jdong: Yeah, working on it now
[12:50] <jdong> cool
[12:53] <Ng> is it too late to get a wireless driver regression looked at for the beta release? just found it when I booted a beta from earlier today
[12:53] <mjg59> Ng: Almost certainly, I'm afraid
[12:53] <mjg59> Ng: What driver?
[12:53] <Ng> atheros, but only some versions
[12:53] <Ng> my desktop is fine (upgraded from dapper), my laptop complains of missing symbols from the live cd
[12:53] <mjg59> jdong: Amusingly, I can't reproduce here
[12:54] <Ng> it's bug 60938
[12:54] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 60938 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.17 "Atheros Chipset Not Detected; Unknown Symbol" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/60938
[12:54] <jdong> rideout: please don't do that.... it gives me headaches :)
[12:54] <mdz> mvo: let's only fix what's needed for the beta at this point
[12:55] <mvo> *nod*
[12:55] <jdong> mjg59: hmm interesting.... this time I am confident that I built usplash in an edgy pbuilder....
[12:55] <mjg59> jdong: But the bug is clearly that the ds passed to gl_getpalette is NULL
[12:55] <mdz> mvo: great, thanks for confirming that
[12:55] <mdz> mvo: is the fact that hfsutils has a task header on i386 a bug?
[12:55] <Ng> actually no I don't know that it works on my desktop machine, that's still on -8 which had previously fixed the bug
[12:56] <mjg59> jdong: Which shouldn't be possible :)
[12:56] <jdong> mjg59: yay! that's always good :)
[12:56] <mjg59> jdong: Can you check that usplash_svga_init contains a call that mallocs initial_palette?
[12:57] <jdong> mjg59:         initial_palette = malloc(sizeof(char) * 768);
[12:57] <mdz> ogra,mvo: notify me when your uploads are in the queue
[12:57] <Ng> mjg59: are there release notes for the beta? it might be worth mentioning that atheros chipsets won't work?
[12:57] <ogra> mdz, its in, but i also mailed tollef
[12:57] <mjg59> Ng: That may have been version skew in the linux-restricted-modules used in the daily image
[12:57] <mvo> mdz: it looks like the generated task headers are not arch-specific - so there is a bug there
[12:57] <mdz> ogra: tollef has gone to sleep
[12:57] <mvo> mdz: apt is uploaded
[12:58] <mjg59> Ng: It's quite possible the beta will work
[12:58] <mdz> I'll be driving
[12:58] <ogra> cool, thanks
[12:58] <mjg59> jdong: can you throw a printf after that to check that the malloc succeeded?
[12:58] <jdong> mjg59: doing that right now :)
[12:58] <mdz> ogra,mvo: apt and ltsp accepted, should be in time for this cron.daily
[12:59] <mjg59> jdong: usplash_init is certainly called before usplash_setpalette ever is...
[12:59] <Ng> mjg59: if I reboot into -10 on my desktop and it's still doing it, since no edgy cd has been near that machine, that would suggest not, right?
[12:59] <ogra> nice :)
[12:59] <mjg59> Ng: Probably, yes
[01:02] <mvo> thanks mdz!
[01:05] <Ng> mjg59: phew, the desktop is ok, thanks :)
[01:05] <mdz> mvo: please file a bug about the task header
[01:05] <mdz> mvo: subscribe ubuntu-archive
[01:07] <jdong> mjg59: uhh, is usplash_vga_init() ever called?
[01:08] <jdong> mjg59: I don't see it in the backtrace
[01:08] <jdong> and none of my printfs in that function show up :)
[01:08] <mjg59> jdong: It won't be in the backtrace - it's not in the call chain
[01:08] <mjg59> usplash_init is called at line 353 of libusplash,c
[01:09] <mjg59> That returns usplash_operations->usplash_init, which is set to usplash_svga_init earlier on
[01:09] <mjg59> Oh!
[01:09] <mjg59> printfs won't show up - stdio has been closed
[01:09] <mjg59> (sorry)
[01:09] <mjg59> Hm
[01:09] <jdong> interesting
[01:09] <jdong> well, off to file IO then :)
[01:09] <mjg59> gdb it, break on usplash_svga_init?
[01:09] <mjg59> Then step through that
[01:11] <mvo> mdz: bug #62699
[01:11] <mdz> Ubugtu: bug 62699
[01:11] <mdz> Ubugtu: scoundrel
[01:12] <ogra> Seveas, ?? ^^^ 
[01:13] <mdz> Ng: are you sure you have the new restricted-modules installed?
[01:13] <Seveas> @whoami
[01:13] <Ubugtu> I don't recognize you.
[01:13] <Seveas> hmm
[01:13] <Seveas> bug 6666
[01:13] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 6666 in malone "visited links on bug page have insufficient contrast" [Medium,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/6666
[01:13] <Seveas> right....
[01:13] <Seveas>  bug 62699
[01:13] <Seveas> -Ubugtu- Error: Error getting Malone bug #62699: Bug does not exist
[01:13] <Fujitsu> Nice.
[01:13] <Seveas> so he was working after all ;)
[01:14] <jdong> mjg59: I set a breakpoint on usplash_svga_init, it segfaults before reaching the breakpoint
[01:14] <mjg59> jdong: Bongtastic
[01:15] <Ng> mdz: I have several versions installed on the desktop it would seem, the broken one (laptop) was using whatever was in the .2 live cd from 20060927
[01:15] <mjg59> jdong: No, I genuinely can't see any way that can happen
[01:15] <jdong> :(
[01:15] <mjg59> jdong: And I can't reproduce it here at all
[01:16] <jdong> hmm
[01:16] <Ng> mdz: I was just in the middle of putting a comment with some more info on the bug, is there anything I can include to make it more useful? or is it likely not a bug as mjg's suggestion and it working on my desktop suggets?
[01:16] <mdz> Ng: you could answer the question I asked in the bug
[01:17] <Ng> mdz: sure. I know the result, which is a weird error about symbol -1 not being found, but I think that was because that module isn't really available, there was a ath_hal.mod.o afair, but I'll check
[01:18] <mjg59> jdong: Oh, hm.
[01:19] <mdz> Ng: note that I said ath_hal, not ath_pci
[01:19] <mjg59> jdong: Ok, now I can reproduce it
[01:19] <Ng> mdz: yeah, when I noticed ath_pci failing to load I tried it by hand, then ath_hal, but I will double check
[01:19] <mjg59> Nnngh.
[01:20] <mvo> sfllaw: please ping me about #62689 as soon as you can, that concerns me somewhat
[01:20] <mdz> mvo: sfllaw has left the building, call his mobile
[01:20] <mvo> mdz: right, missed that. will do
[01:21] <mdz> mvo: that's because he didn't mention it
[01:22] <neuralis> mdz: i have a confidential matter to discuss. do you prefer irc or mail?
[01:22] <mjg59> jdong: Oh crap, i see
[01:23] <mdz> neuralis: if it isn't about the beta release, then email is better
[01:23] <neuralis> mdz: it's not; i'll mail you.
[01:23] <slomo_> Remenic: ping? (short question and maybe a bug about clearlooks)
[01:24] <mjg59> jdong: It's in bzr now, but you may need to wait for http to catch up
[01:24] <jdong> mjg59: ok, thanks
[01:24] <mjg59> Oh, hang on, that's not going to work
[01:25] <mjg59> No, wait, it should do
[01:25] <mjg59> Meh
[01:25] <jdong> lol
[01:25] <jdong> I'll let you know :P
[01:25] <mjg59> jdong: Move the call to gl_getpalette to just underneath the malloc
[01:27] <jdong> mjg59: where's that?
[01:27] <jdong> I'll just wait till launchpad catches up
[01:28] <mjg59> jdong: In usplash_svga.c
[01:28] <jdong> mjg59: alright, let's see if thist works... :)
[01:31] <joejaxx> Kamion: may i pm you?
[01:31] <Ng> mdz: done
[01:32] <mdz> joejaxx: colin is not online
[01:33] <jdong> mjg59: that fixes it
[01:33] <mjg59> jdong: All works ok?
[01:33] <joejaxx> mdz: ?
[01:33] <joejaxx> mdz: colin?
[01:33] <jdong> mjg59: yeah, finally the logo's not in inverted colors :)
[01:33] <zul> joejaxx: kamion is not online
[01:34] <joejaxx> zul: oh alright i was not aware
[01:56] <jdong> mjg59: fix your bzr whoami on vaio :P
[01:56] <neuralis> mdz: sent, and rather time-sensitive, though i'm aware of your current preoccupation with the beta.
[01:57] <mdz> apt and ltsp built successfully
[01:58] <mdz> publishing
[01:59] <mjg59> jdong: Mm?
[02:00] <jdong> mjg59: committer: Matthew Garrett <mjg59@vaio>
[02:00] <mjg59> Oh
[02:00] <mjg59> Heh
[02:00] <jdong> mjg59: set a real e-mail address
[02:00] <mjg59> I don't usually commit from there
[02:26] <ogra> mdz, did you already trigger new edubuntu isos ? else i will do that before i go to bed now 
[02:26] <mdz> ogra: I did
[02:26] <ogra> (ltsp 0.115 is up )
[02:26] <ogra> oh, wow
[02:26] <ogra> thanks 
[02:26] <mdz> all alternates are building now; I'll do desktop after that
[02:26] <tseng> are we there yet?
[02:26] <tseng> :)
[02:27] <ogra> ok, i'll strt my rsyncs then and will test tomorrow morning ...
[02:27] <ogra> *start
[02:35] <Viper550> I have an interesting installer idea for Edgy+1
[02:37] <mdz> doko_: that's great news, let me know what you find
[02:39] <Viper550> What the heck just happened?
[02:39] <tseng> its called a netsplit
[02:39] <Fade> netsplit
[02:40] <tseng> one or more servers loose their connection to the network
[02:40] <Fade> usually caused by routing flaps in transit networks, but also caused by DDoS attacks. :)
[02:40] <Fade> it almost reminds you of the halcyon days of efnet. 
[02:41] <ogra> or by mindless server admins that sumble over a power cable ;)
[02:41] <Lathiat> most of the time its just somethign dying
[02:41] <Lathiat> ogra: hehe
[02:41] <Lathiat> or even network rerouting
[02:41] <tseng> ogra: that would never happen
[02:41] <ogra> haha
[02:41] <Lathiat> no ones built redundant paths into an ircd yet :)
[02:41] <Fade> largely because of the way the irc rfc is layed out.
[02:41] <Viper550> oh...
[02:42] <Fade> anyhow, bed for me. 'nite
[02:42] <Viper550> Well, anyway, here is my idea...You know how the new Desktop CD for Dapper uses that new Casper installer system?
[02:43] <ogra> tseng, i worked for a cble company in another life where they had the most expensive redundant systems i've ever seen ... one day a colleague of mine worked in the DC and wanted to pick up something ... he touched a switch with his butt in an open server cabinet ... the whole TV for the region was down for some hours
[02:43] <tseng> ogra: i forgot </sarcasm>
[02:43] <ogra> right :)
[02:43] <ogra> he got fired for that btw ... even he wasnt the guy who left the door open
[02:45] <tseng> ogra: similarly we had a contractor from Siemans lift the glass covering and push the big red emergency power shutoff button
[02:45] <Viper550> Uhh, did anyone pay attenton to my comment?
[02:45] <ogra> tseng, haha ...
[02:45] <neuralis> Viper550: casper is not an installer. do you mean ubiquity?
[02:45] <LaserJock> and "
[02:45] <Viper550> Well, whatever, the new system where it copies files instead of packages
[02:46] <tseng> Viper550: you could finish your thought at least
[02:46] <LaserJock> "new" WRT to Dapper is a little... old ;-)
[02:47] <Viper550> Well, why don't we try and make a text-based installer using that system, so we can also use the new faster system on older systems
[02:47] <LaserJock> Viper550: go for it!
[02:47] <tseng> because the text-based installer doesnt have the filesystem with all the files on it
[02:47] <tseng> it has a set of packages
[02:47] <tseng> and is very tied to this assumption
[02:48] <tseng> ubiquity, the new installer, was written from scratch with completely different assumptions at its core
[02:48] <LaserJock> tseng: I'm assuming he was offering to write us a new text installer :-)
[02:48] <Viper550> I know, I meant make a new installer by scratch, using Ubiquinty's design
[02:48] <tseng> LaserJock: oh, fantastic
[02:48] <Viper550> I'm not a coder, but still: A text based Ubiquinty-based installer would be awesome!
[02:48] <tseng> Viper550: to shave 5 minutes off installs?
[02:49] <Viper550> Yes.
[02:49] <jdong> Viper550: honestly... :)
[02:49] <ogra> wouldnt help me in edubuntu ... nor would it help the xubuntu people 
[02:50] <ogra> which leaves you with kubuntu and ubuntu ... which both are fine for installing in graphical mode ...
[02:50] <tseng> saving 5 minutes on "alternate" installs isnt worth the burden of building and maintaining a new installer
[02:50] <ogra> so where is the advantage ? 
[02:50] <Viper550> Yes, giving everyone a chance to have a faster install is a great idea. I hate how you need 256 MB ram to use the Desktop CD, not everyone has that powerful of a system!
[02:50] <LaserJock> Viper550: you are talking about 2 different things
[02:51] <ogra> right
[02:51] <tseng> Viper550: please understand the huge ammount of effort
[02:51] <LaserJock> speed of install isn't the same a lowering install requirements
[02:51] <tseng> Viper550: that needs to be weighed against any possible gains
[02:51] <LaserJock> I think the desktop takes much more resources then the installer itself, I think
[02:51] <ogra> well, or just provide the code :)
[02:52] <Viper550> Yeah...or maybe a boot option on the desktop CD that only loads a minimal window manager and the installer
[02:53] <tseng> that sounds a more worthwhile development effort
[02:53] <tseng> go for it
[02:53] <Fujitsu> Yes, that's not a bad idea, actually.
[02:53] <tseng> yeah
[02:53] <Fujitsu> That's a very very good idea.
[02:53] <jdub> i think that's already on the plans
[02:53] <jdub> for edgy+1
[02:53] <Viper550> Maybe just setup a Openbox desktop with the Ubuntu wallpaper in it...
[02:54] <ogra> why bother with a window manager and a wallpaper ? 
[02:54] <ogra> just run the installer fullscreen
[02:54] <LaserJock> yep
[02:54] <jdub> ogra: because the installer opens windows, which need managing
[02:55] <ogra> ah, right 
[02:55] <ogra> ion
[02:55] <ogra> :)
[02:55] <jdub> metacity is small enough
[02:55] <Fujitsu> ogra, I love ion, but it's not exactly suitable :P
[02:55] <ogra> jdub, btw, will we see you in mountainview ?
[02:55] <Fujitsu> jdub, if you remove Gnome from the equation, it is.
[02:55] <Viper550> Hmm, what does Anaconda use for stuff like that?
[02:56] <jdong> the casper live system itself uses a lot of RAM on low-ram systems
[02:56] <tseng> Viper550: do you recall it opening any windows?
[02:56] <jdong> I don't think even an openbox/fvwm would do it
[02:56] <jdong> Viper550: suse's installer uses fvwm; I'm not sure what anaconda uses
[02:57] <Viper550> Yeah, the "Please wait while the install begins, this may take several minutes" and some other screens like in partitioning
[02:58] <ogra> anyway
[02:58] <Fujitsu> Goodnight!
[02:58] <Viper550> I mean like this: http://shots.osdir.com/slideshows/original.php?release=596&slide=9
[02:59] <jdub> Fujitsu: that's what the proposal was
[02:59] <jdub> ogra: not afaik
[03:00] <ogra> jdub, sad :/
[03:25] <jdong_> wow, uswsusp has a progress bar
[03:48] <Seq> i've created my own package repository, and when building packages have the .dsc and .changes file signed (via debuild). I've also imported my public key with apt-key. Does anybody know how to get it to stop warning me about my packages being unverified?
[03:51] <mdz> infinity: ping
[03:51] <infinity> mdz: pong
[03:51] <mdz> infinity: bug 62712
[03:51] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62712 in Ubuntu "Language support packages are marked as automatically installed" [Medium,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62712
[03:52] <infinity> mdz: That's because *-live aren't tasks currently.
[03:52] <mdz> infinity: tasks don't exist for them at all?
[03:52] <infinity> Nope.
[03:52] <mdz> I think we have to live with this for beta then
[03:53] <infinity> I'd have been more concerned about it, except that the first thing we do on a ubiquity install is to remove all the -live depedencies anyway.
[03:53] <infinity> Though, we don't remove the langpack stuff (or re-add it in a suboptimal fashion), which would be leading to this.
[03:53] <infinity> Pain.
[03:54] <mdz> I don't suppose mvo added a "pretend all the dependencies are manually installed" flag...
[03:54] <infinity> That would be awfully clever, but I don't think so.
[03:55] <mdz> we could release beta with this bug, but if we can fix it in the livefs build, I think that's worth it
[03:56] <mdz> any better idea than hardcoding the lists of *ubuntu-live deps?
[03:56] <infinity> Well, there are a few ways to fix it, and all seem resonably trivial.  Could be fixed in apt (with a new flag), in the archive (adding tasks), or in ubiquity itself by reordering how it does some things.
[03:56] <mdz> fixing it in apt is a 4-hour process
[03:56] <mdz> once the fix is uploaded
[03:57] <infinity> Fixing it for beta would mean me pulling the seed output and parsing it to manually install the lot.
[03:57] <infinity> I already do that for the OpenCD builds, so the code exists.
[03:57] <mdz> oh, interesting
[03:57] <mdz> I'm also thinking of ways we could correct this with an update
[03:58] <mdz> unfortunately the extended status doesn't say which package pulled it in, so it's tricky to say
[03:58] <infinity> I can certainly do the ugly livefs.sh hack for now, and we can discuss with Kamion and mvo the "right" way to fix it later.
[03:58] <infinity> Should be about 10 minutes of cut-n-waste and another 10-20 mins to test locally and make sure I didn't bugger it up.
[03:59] <mdz> I don't think anything acts on the autoremove data as yet, so this arguably isn't a very big deal
[04:00] <mdz> if we can fix it cleanly in an update
[04:00] <infinity> Well, fixing it cleanly would mean magically marking all that stuff as manually installed later... Which sounds tricky.
[04:00] <mdz> the marking is easy; it's the test for whether we should mark it which I'm unsure about
[04:00] <mdz> the livefs approach seems worth a try
[04:01] <mdz> btw, please disable the cron jobs if you haven't already
[04:01] <infinity> They've been disabled for a couple of days, since Tollef requested it.
[04:02] <mdz> ok
[04:02] <mdz> the cdimage builds weren't for some reason
[04:02] <infinity> They are now, I assume?
[04:02] <mdz> I have disabled them now, yes
[04:03] <infinity> Well, most of them.
[04:03] <infinity> I assume you left ports and xubuntu enabled for a reason?
[04:03] <mdz> had no reason to disable them
[04:03] <mdz> I don't know if they're even succeeding, but they weren't in my way
[04:03] <infinity> Fair enough.
[04:04] <mdz> I haven't seen jani and have no idea if there will be a xubuntu beta
[04:04] <mdz> so I haven't been poking at it
[04:04] <infinity> I think I must misunderstand how ubiquity works.
[04:04] <crimsun> mdz: there are plans, yes
[04:04] <infinity> I assumed it removed all of the *-live stuff, then installed langpacks.
[04:04] <infinity> But obviously not, or this wouldn't happen.
[04:05] <mdz> right, it filters the langpack stuff
[04:05] <infinity> Ahh, pain.
[04:05] <infinity> Makes more sense for speed, I guess, just exposes this.
[04:05] <mdz> we could fix this by hacking up /var/lib/apt/extended_status at the end of the livefs build
[04:05] <infinity> Okay, I'll hack livefs.sh to just install it all manually for now.
[04:05] <mdz> fixing extended_status is arguably more correct
[04:06] <mdz> since if they later remove the langpack, it'll DTRT
[04:06] <mdz> it's pretty easy to parse
[04:06] <infinity> Hrm, so just make language-support-en be marked manual, but leave the rest auto?
[04:06] <mdz> a perl one-liner would do the job I expect
[04:06] <mdz> support and pack
[04:06] <mdz> let me try it in a live boot
[04:07] <infinity> Well, if you drop support, you might want to auto-remove pack, no?
[04:10] <mdz> infinity: they're both explicitly seeded, and selecting the installer language should make them both manual
[04:12] <mdz> infinity: perl -i.old -nle '$dec=3 if /^Package: language-(pack|support)/; print unless $dec-- > 0;' /var/lib/apt/extended_states
[04:13] <mdz> infinity: or the more correct perl -i.old -nle 'print unless /^Package: language-(pack|support)/ .. /^$/;' /var/lib/apt/extended_states
[04:13] <mdz> should do the trick
[04:14] <infinity> Kay, let me do a test build here.
[04:16] <mdz> would be nice if "apt-get install <thing it thinks was autoinstalled>" would DTRT
[04:16] <mdz> but it doesn't
[04:16] <mdz> nor does --reinstall
[04:29] <gnomefreak> these jobs for ubuntu, does that mean we are losing these people that do it now or they just dont want to do that project anylonger?
[04:31] <infinity> gnomefreak: Some of it's increased workload, some is getting specialists on board to take over specific tasks from currently overworked people.
[04:31] <gnomefreak> ah ok
[04:31] <gnomefreak> i was like oh crap not ben and keybuk 
[04:34] <mdz> gnomefreak: "growth" in a word
[04:34] <gnomefreak> ty 
[04:34] <gnomefreak> growth is a good word :)
[04:49] <mdz> infinity: joy?
[04:49] <infinity> mdz: Yup, tested okay, rolling it out nowish.
[04:50] <mdz> infinity: ok, please build them all (well, the ones with langpacks) once it's ready
[04:51] <infinity> Will do.
[04:59] <nictuku> gnomefreak, so are you applying too?
[04:59] <gnomefreak> nictuku: i was gonna apply to one of them but i cant move to canada
[05:00] <nictuku> why not? www.canadianalternative.com
[05:01] <gnomefreak> nictuku: my son and is mother
[05:03] <infinity> mdz: I'll just statr pumping out ISOs as the livefs images become available.
[05:04] <infinity> start, too.
[05:18] <mdz> infinity: thanks
[05:31] <infinity> mdz: ubuntu/desktop 20060928.2 is ready, if you want to test the hack.
[05:31] <mdz> I will
[05:39] <mdz> hmm, my rsync is stalling
[05:40] <Hobbsee> yours too? pitti and ogra were complaining about similar things last night
[05:45] <mdz> worked the second time
[05:46] <infinity> I wonder if I should donate out-of-pocket to get faster disks on king and royal.
[05:47] <infinity> I suppose I could file an RT request with my credit card details and see how that goes. :)
[05:54] <Fujitsu> mdz, may I recommend some/more context in future emails such as the `Beta release status' one to -devel? It's very out of place.
[05:57] <infinity> kubuntu/desktop 20060928.1 built and mirrored
[05:57] <mdz> Fujitsu: pardon?
[05:57] <mdz> it doesn't get much more on-topic than that
[05:57] <LaserJock> mdz: I was confused as to what you were really saying
[05:58] <Fujitsu> mdz, not off-topic...
[05:58] <mdz> it was primarily a brief note to the release team letting them know what happened while they were asleep
[05:58] <LaserJock> sure, I know
[05:58] <mdz> but I figured it might be of interest to the development team in general as well, so sent to -devel
[05:59] <mdz> in crunches like this, I'm not likely to have time to write a detailed progress report, and the situation changes quickly anyway.  however, it's important to keep the development team informed
[05:59] <mdz> what do you think could be done differently to improve it?
[06:00] <Fujitsu> I don't know, but it looks very much like it was indeed addressed to just the release team, and is going to confuse people who don't know everything about the current status.
[06:01] <Fujitsu> I don't know how it could have been improved, though...
[06:01] <crimsun> it seems a few initial impressions were "huh? Is the beta still scheduled for release [today] ?"
[06:02] <minghua> mdz: I think saying that it's mainly for the release team, but others on -devel may be interested would be good
[06:02] <minghua> that way if I don't understand, I know it's not mainly intended to me
[06:03] <Fujitsu> minghua, yes, as it's obviously very directed to the release team. It's just going to confuse everybody else if they think they should be able to understand it.
[06:03] <minghua> mdz: but I sure appreciate the update, it's definitely better than nothing
[06:06] <mdz> Fujitsu: appearances aside, it really is a developer-oriented list and we should be able to have this type of conversation on it
[06:06] <mdz> I'll try to remember to add a one-liner at the top if I do it again
[06:06] <Fujitsu> mdz, that'd be good.
[06:06] <mdz> [warning! actual development content inside, please open carefully]  ;-)
[06:07] <Fujitsu> It may be a development-oriented list, but a whole lot of people on it aren't developers, and a lot of the discussion isn't as developer oriented...
[06:07] <Fujitsu> Haha, exactly
[06:08] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: that's more a problem with how the list has drifted off topic lately
[06:08] <Fujitsu> ajmitch, of course.
[06:09] <infinity> I'd like to think that people reading a devel list will apply "If I don't understand it, it's not for me" to each message, as a general rule.
[06:09] <infinity> I certainly don't understand (or care to understand) half of what I read on lkml, for instance.
[06:09] <ajmitch> and I appreciated having the release update on -devel
[06:13] <Burgundavia> mdz: does LP allow anybody to target a spec at Edgy?
[06:14] <mdz> Burgundavia: I believe it allows anyone to propose a spec for edgy, but only privileged users can approve it
[06:14] <Burgundavia> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-6.10 <-- the spec list here looks really odd
[06:14] <Burgundavia> oh, and deferred should remove a spec from the targetting
[06:16] <mdz> Burgundavia: oh, a milestone, not a release
[06:16] <mdz> I have no idea, maybe
[06:17] <mdz> that might not require any special privileges
[06:17] <Burgundavia> that is a bit of an issue, because being on that list implies it is being included
[06:17] <fabbione> morning guys
[06:17] <mdz> infinity: workaround confirmed in the current build
[06:17] <fabbione> how are we doing?
[06:17] <mdz> fabbione: I sent an update to -devel (of all places! ;-) )
[06:18] <infinity> mdz: Excellent.
[06:18] <fabbione> mdz: reading.. thanks
[06:18] <infinity> mdz: edubuntu is almost there.  Do we care about xubuntu for beta?  (I'm building it anyway, out of the kindness of my heart, but if it's not urgent, I can go grab some lunch and pay my rent before I spin the xubuntu ISOs)
[06:19] <mdz> infinity: crimsun seemed to be in the loop on xubuntu, I know nothing
[06:19] <infinity> crimsun: ?
[06:20] <crimsun> infinity: it's not urgent but would be greatly appreciated
[06:20] <mdz> infinity: I don't think anyone is present who is actively working on xubuntu beta, so I don't think there's any hurry
[06:20] <infinity> crimsun: Okay, I'll spin the xubuntu ISOs when I get back from lunch/rent, then, since paying rent before my real estate agent closes is somewhat time-sensitive. :/
[06:21] <crimsun> infinity: many thanks!
[06:22] <mdz> infinity: the edubuntu desktop build will be 20060928.1?
[06:22] <infinity> mdz: Should be, yeah.
[06:22] <mdz> infinity: and you're only building desktop/live, right?
[06:22] <infinity> mdz: Right.
[06:23] <mdz> I'm posting a list of candidate build numbers 
[06:24] <fabbione> hmmm
[06:24] <fabbione> 62712 might affect netinstalls too
[06:25] <fabbione> mdz: what was the workaround you used?
[06:25] <infinity> Won't affect netinstalls.
[06:25] <infinity> Since netinstalls won't install ubuntu-live and then remove it.
[06:25] <fabbione> ah right
[06:25] <fabbione> ok
[06:26] <infinity> mdz: edubuntu/desktop 20060928.1 published.
[06:26] <infinity> And really, really, really big on powerpc.
[06:27] <infinity> I can only assume that ogra's already aware of that, mind you, since he's got his finger on the pulse of all things CD-size-related.
[06:27] <Burgundavia> mdz: https://launchpad.net/products/blueprint/+bug/62717
[06:27] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62717 in blueprint "Anybody can target specs at milestones" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
[06:28] <mdz> edubuntu on powerpc is academic
[06:28] <mdz> literally
[06:28] <Amaranth> Yeah who has the money to spend on an Apple server?
[06:28] <infinity> *rimshot*
[06:29] <Amaranth> Or even an apple machine as a client, seeing how it's targeted at schools
[06:29] <mdz> Amaranth: server and a bunch of thin clients, even
[06:30] <LaserJock> I've seen a few ppc thin client questions in #edubuntu
[06:30] <LaserJock> but ususally with x86 servers
[06:31] <infinity> An beefy Xserve and a mess of old, used candy-coloured iMacs wouldn't be so bad.
[06:31] <infinity> s/An/A/
[06:32] <infinity> Anyhow, off to go pay my rent, since I'm not fond of eviction.  Back in an hour or two, public transit depending.
[06:56] <solomakhin> is it safe to upgrade to edgy?
[06:59] <Hobbsee> solomakhin: no.   it could all break.
[06:59] <jdong> solomakhin: if you're asking that, the answer is probably no.
[06:59] <solomakhin> Hobbsee: what breaks?
[06:59] <solomakhin> jdong: ok
[06:59] <Hobbsee> solomakhin: i'm not quite sure at the moment
[06:59] <Hobbsee> but i agree with jdong 
[07:00] <jdong> solomakhin: Almost everything works ok for me right now; a few gnome apps still are a tad unstable...
[07:00] <solomakhin> alright, thanks guys
[07:00] <jdong> solomakhin: but with a development release at anytime the situation can drastically change
[07:00] <jdong> I wouldn't rule out data loss, corruption, etc
[07:00] <Hobbsee> the world blowing up
[07:01] <solomakhin> wow, pretty scary
[07:01] <solomakhin> do you do this to all n00bs? ;)
[07:01] <jdong> solomakhin: just an example, it was recently discovered that the knot3 live installer goes on formatting rampages
[07:01] <jdong> solomakhin: there's been at least 2 people reporting complete data loss on their NTFS partitions
[07:01] <Hobbsee> jdong: so did one of the kubuntu dapper ones.  :D
[07:01] <jdong> so again, I wouldn't rule out something like that happening
[07:02] <Hobbsee> jdong: i tried to convince Riddell that this was part of a bugfix for bug 1
[07:02] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 1 in ubuntu-meta "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/1
[07:02] <jdong> hobbsee: hehe :)
[07:02] <solomakhin> hahaha
[07:02] <Hobbsee> solomakhin: no - but most of the time they dont come into -devel and ask - they ask in #ubuntu+1, and  usually ask "how do you  upgrade too"
[07:03] <jdong> solomakhin: so, personally I'd recommend either setting aside a test _computer_ / vmware or wait till edgy's release :)
[07:03] <Hobbsee> then get really shirty when you answer "if you have to ask that, you shouldnt upgrade to the development release" with "oh, i should be able to make that choice for myself" yada yada yada...
[07:03] <jdong> hobbsee: ugh, we had a guy on the forums wanting to upgrade to edgy...
[07:03] <Hobbsee> jdong: only one?  *g*
[07:03] <jdong> hobbsee: after 22 replies, he was unable to edit his sources.list
[07:03] <jdong> lol
[07:03] <solomakhin> hahaha
[07:03] <LaserJock> ouch
[07:04] <Hobbsee> yes.  remind me why they stay on the forums, and why the bugtracker is slightly complex
[07:04] <jdong> that's a pretty good sign you shouldn't use edgy :)
[07:04] <jdong> hobbsee: we're like your noob filter :)
[07:04] <Hobbsee> i think i'm going to start saying in edgy+1 "sure, it's fine to upgrade.  try it and see"  and then watch them go back to dapper when it all breaks, and tell their friends
[07:05] <solomakhin> good job, ``team n00b filter!''
[07:05] <Hobbsee> with a proper /topic of course, so that those observant people would notice that they shouldnt install it
[07:05] <Hobbsee> er, then go back to edgy.  or dapper.
[07:05] <Hobbsee> jdong: *grin*
[07:07] <Hobbsee> solomakhin: it's safer than usual, due to the beta, but you're still likely to experience lots of breakage, so it's safer to wait
[07:08] <solomakhin> Hobbsee: thanks for advice
[07:08] <Hobbsee> solomakhin: :)
[07:09] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: your X isn't working?
[07:10] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: indeed.  i'm still booted to 2.6.17-7-generic, as the later versions dont work
[07:10] <Hobbsee> https://launchpad.net/bugs/61979
[07:11] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 61979 in xserver-xorg-video-i810 "[Regression]  2.6.17-8-generic makes X crash if DRI is enabled in xorg.conf" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
[07:15] <jdong> hobbsee: have you tried starting x without kdm?
[07:15] <jdong> kdm's a bit kooky with how it uses X... fglrx doesn't like it either
[07:15] <Hobbsee> jdong: of course.  still dies.
[07:16] <jdong> k
[07:16] <Hobbsee> i'm not *that* shocking at debugging X crashes
[07:17] <jdong> btw, not to be naggy/annoying/etc, but where are we on the road to beta iso's? :)
[07:19] <Hobbsee> jdong: i think we're on the road to testing them, actually
[07:19] <Hobbsee> ubuntu alternate was oversized
[07:20] <jdong> are the 928.2 daily-lives the ones?
[07:21] <Hobbsee> yeah, i would think so
[07:32] <fabbione> brb
[07:53] <infinity> crimsun: xubuntu has new images up, and I've disabled the xubuntu cdimage cronjobs so they don't get regenerated out from under you.
[08:04] <pitti> Good morning
[08:04] <Hobbsee> hey pitti!
[08:04] <mempf> hey guys
[08:06] <infinity> Hey pitti.
[08:06] <infinity> Someone should email me some food.
[08:06] <Hobbsee> heh
[08:07] <Hobbsee> i dont think it'd work very well
[08:07] <pitti> hey Hobbsee, hello infinity, moin mempf 
[08:07] <mempf> arrg
[08:07] <mempf> cant get edgy installed on my pc
[08:07] <mempf> i want to try that new nvidia driver
[08:10] <mempf> why would the setup hang at: Retrieving file 819 of 819
[08:14] <pitti> mempf: wait a bit
[08:14] <pitti> mempf: look at VT3 or VT4 for what's going on
[08:14] <mempf> il try that
[08:15] <pitti> whoa, do today's desktop images really differ from yesterday's?
[08:15] <pitti> sent 189602 bytes  received 108425 bytes speedup is 2459.11
[08:17] <tfheen> pitti: not very much, but yeah, a bit
[08:17] <pitti> tfheen: how does it look so far?
[08:17] <pitti> I'll continue the powerpc testing now
[08:18] <mempf> is the beta release soon/
[08:19] <tfheen> pitti: I woke up 19 minutes ago, I've just skimmed my inbox. :-)
[08:22] <pitti> tfheen: I'll bump the desktop CD date on T/Current and mark the results as obsolete
[08:23] <infinity> pitti: mdz sent a list of candidates to -devel, if you need exact numbers.
[08:26] <infinity> Should be the same, I've not changed them since then. :)
[08:26] <tfheen> pitti: thanks. :-)
[08:26] <tfheen> infinity: the -server one isn't the latest, iirc
[08:26] <infinity> Ahh, we didn't respin -server this morning, we were just doing desktop/live mangling.
[08:30] <pitti> Riddell: I updated the CD timestamps for Kubuntu on T/Current, but did not obsolete the previous test results since I don't know which ones you tested already
[08:34] <Hobbsee> pitti: i'm not sure if any official testing notice has gone out for kubuntu based cds yet
[08:40] <fabbione> pitti: ping?
[08:40] <geser> could someone please giveback pstngw? it failed to build because of chroot problems. thanks
[08:40] <pitti> fabbione: pong
[08:41] <fabbione> pitti: see /msg
[08:41] <fabbione> i am having some locales issues
[08:41] <fabbione> perhaps you know what's wrong
[08:46] <tfheen> pitti: which one of them?  The desktop one or the alternate one?
[08:46] <pitti> tfheen: desktop (sorry, 'live' is still in my fingers)
[08:46] <pitti> the one I previously got no feedback for
[08:47] <tfheen> pitti: oh, sorry, I can't read, you wrote live there.
[08:47] <geser> infinity: hello. I'm trying to rebuild php4 but it fails to build as the build-deps need both libdb4.3-dev and libdb4.4-dev and both can't be installed at the same time. have you an idea how to resolve it?
[08:50] <Kagou> morning
[08:50] <bluefoxthing> well shit.
[08:50] <bluefoxthing> wine freezes, then crashes X
[08:50] <bluefoxthing> twice I tried, then I couldn't log in
[08:50] <HrdwrBoB> er
[08:50] <bluefoxthing> (gdm just hangs on log-in)
[08:50] <HrdwrBoB> wrong channel
[08:50] <bluefoxthing> on Edgy
[08:51] <Fujitsu> bluefoxthing, so what? This is for development, not complaining about development releases?
[08:52] <bluefoxthing> Fujitsu: is part of development recognizing potential problems?
[08:52] <Fujitsu> bluefoxthing, no, that's the bug-tracker's job.
[08:52] <pitti> arrrrgh
[08:52] <Fujitsu> pitti, what's up?
[08:52] <bluefoxthing> i'm waiting for that machine to reboot so I can figure out wtf is breaking it
[08:52] <infinity> geser: It'll be fixed post-beta.
[08:52] <pitti> removing ubuntu-desktop *still* kills 983248329 packages
[08:52] <pitti> I thought mdz said that was fixed now
[08:53] <Fujitsu> pitti, and I see that bug is marked fixed.
[08:53] <bluefoxthing> meanwhile, can anyone else run wine without it crashing X?  (i.e. is this a video driver problem?)
[08:53] <infinity> pitti: Erk.  It was meant to be fixed in the most recent images.  I blame mvo.
[08:53] <bluefoxthing> (mplayer was doing this to X a while ago too)
[08:53] <pitti> infinity: I just did 'sudo apt-get remove --auto-remove ubuntu-desktop -s' and it killed everything
[08:53] <pitti> infinity: ^ in the ppc live session
[08:54] <infinity> pitti: *sigh*.. Not good.
[08:54] <infinity> pitti: What version of apt is on that livefs?
[08:54] <pitti> infinity: 0.6.45ubuntu13
[08:54] <infinity> pitti: It was meant to be fixed with 0.6.45ubuntu14 ...
[08:54] <bluefoxicy> system functionality restored, damn.  Now how do I figure out why it's breaking
[08:55] <infinity> pitti: Err.  D'oh.  I thought 0.6.45ubuntu14 got into the latest images.  Feh.
[08:55] <pitti> new images?
[08:55] <infinity> Oh, yeah, it is in the latest..
[08:55] <infinity> 20060928.2
[08:55] <bluefoxicy> oh screw it I'll just file a bug and let somebody else figure it out
[08:56] <infinity> pitti: 20060928.2 has the right apt version, I'm not sure what you're testing..
[08:57] <pitti> infinity: ugh, seems that this morning's rsync picked the wrong one, sorry
[08:58] <tfheen> i386 seems good wrt auto-remove.
[09:02] <crimsun> infinity: thanks!
[09:14] <sivang> morning
[09:16] <bluefoxicy> *slight anger*
[09:16] <bluefoxicy> my hard disk is cranking, nothing intensive is running
[09:22] <Fujitsu> *slight anger*
[09:22] <Fujitsu> You're ranting in a development channel, not advisable.
[09:26] <Fujitsu> Thankyou for uploading those tor fixes, pitti.
[09:27] <pitti> Fujitsu: oh, the thanks is your's for preparing them :)
[09:27] <Fujitsu> It didn't take very long :)
[09:28] <Kagou> shawarma: i open 2 bugs for rastudio Bug #62734 and  Bug #62733 
[09:28] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62734 in rawstudio "Close Button don't work in About dialog" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62734
[09:28] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62733 in rawstudio "Can't open a file" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62733
[09:29] <Kagou> s/rastudio/rawstudio 0.4.1 released today (one is High)
[09:43] <ogra> infinity, ?
[09:44] <ogra> infinity, what did you do to the ppc cds ? 
[09:44] <poningru> how much longer till beta is released?
[09:44] <poningru> tommorow
[09:44] <poningru> err today I guess in some places
[09:46] <ogra> infinity, they were ~672M for the last *weeks* and i didnt change anything ... there must be something gone wrong
[09:46] <ogra> mdz, ^^^
[09:56] <ogra> infinity, the edgy-live-powerpc.list of edubuntu 20060927 and  20060928.1 are identical, there must be something *very* wrong with the builds if there are 70MB difference
[10:01] <raphink> hmmm
[10:01] <raphink> hi
[10:02] <raphink> is it normal that nothing seems to be approved in the NEW queue for 9 days?
[10:02] <raphink> when universe freeze is tonight :s
[10:03] <Fujitsu> raphink, this is what happens when the archive admins get busy with other stuff.
[10:03] <Fujitsu> :(
[10:03] <raphink> well we're overtaking a lib transition
[10:04] <raphink> I uploaded the new lib 3 days ago, hoping to have the time to upload the new apps building on it in time
[10:04] <raphink> but it has been stuck since
[10:05] <raphink> :(
[10:07] <pitti> mvo: does the amd64/desktop boot for you? it's totally busted for me
[10:07] <pitti> mvo: it just sits around with a black screen forever
[10:08] <mvo> pitti: it did yesterday, let me recheck
[10:08] <pitti> and since we did a very thorough job ob eliminating all possibilities of debugging, I can't say what's wrong
[10:09] <mvo> the nvidia problem maybe?
[10:09] <tfheen> pitti: not even the first boot menu?
[10:10] <ogra> hmm, seems infinity is asleep ... 
[10:11] <ogra> after making my ppc live CD explode ... :/
[10:12] <tfheen> pitti: -desktop seems to boot correctly for me on amd64 (vmware) at least.
[10:12] <ogra> tfheen, do you have any idea what can cause a 70MB oversizedness between two builds with identical .list files ? i have no clue where to start searching here 
[10:13] <tfheen> ogra: that sounds.. special.
[10:13] <ogra> yes
[10:13] <tfheen> ogra: -live?
[10:13] <ogra> they have been ~670M for the last weeks
[10:13] <pitti> tfheen: I get gfxboot
[10:13] <ogra> and suddenly i get >740M
[10:13] <ogra> yes, ppc only
[10:14] <pitti> tfheen: if you have nvidia, maybe you can try a real boot?
[10:14] <infinity> ogra: I didn't "do" anything to them.
[10:14] <pitti> tfheen: I don't see anything since uslpash does not work and upstart is absolutely quiet
[10:14] <mvo> ogra: the list of files is identical you say?
[10:14] <ogra> mvo, yes
[10:15] <tfheen> pitti: remove "quiet" from the boot options?
[10:15] <ogra> infinity, but there must have something changed :)
[10:15] <tfheen> ogra: rsync is on crack
[10:15] <mvo> ogra: my suspicion was the new install-task method abecause of bug #62696
[10:15] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62696 in soyuz "Task headers in Packages files do not match seeds exactly" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62696
[10:15] <ogra> ah !
[10:15] <ogra> phew
[10:15] <pitti> tfheen: ah, in the expert menu, right
[10:16] <tfheen> ogra: hmm, no, actually not.
[10:16] <ogra> no, the size on lithium is the same
[10:17] <infinity> Err, the manifests aren't even close to identical.
[10:17] <dholbach> good morning
[10:17] <pitti> hey dholbach 
[10:17] <mvo> dholbach!
[10:17] <mvo> dholbach!
[10:17] <dholbach> hey pitti, hey mvo, hey heno!
[10:17] <tfheen> hi Henrik
[10:17] <mvo> pitti: blank screen for me too :/ with nvidia 
[10:17] <pitti> mvo: alternate install still has the desktop removal problem
[10:17] <mvo> hi heno
[10:18] <heno> hi all!
[10:18] <pitti> mvo: does it start anyway?
[10:18] <dholbach> hi tfheen, infinity, ogra :)
[10:18] <pitti> mvo: I'm used to the black screen, we have that usplash bug for months, but so far it at least started fine
[10:18] <mvo> pitti: it is still starting, but I see progress
[10:18] <pitti> ok, may be hw specific then
[10:19] <infinity> ogra: gcompris* and tuxpaint* look like good candidates for the extra usage, though other stuff has changed too.
[10:19] <ogra> infinity, argh, how did all the excluded packages end up there 
[10:19] <pitti> mvo: do you still know the desktop removal bug number? I need to reopen it for alternate installs
[10:19] <ogra> yes, i'm just diffing the manifest 
[10:19] <infinity> mvo: And yes, I suspect ogra's issue is due to the task/metapackage mismatch bug.
[10:19] <ogra> neither was included on ppc since dapper
[10:19] <mvo> pitti: #61684
[10:19] <BringZten> hello
[10:19] <BringZten> I love fucking ubuntu
[10:20] <BringZten> I'm concerned about the state of linux
[10:20] <Hobbsee> BringZten: why are you here?
[10:20] <BringZten> Vista is amazing and I hate microsoft
[10:20] <infinity> ogra: Anyhow, mdz's already stated that he's perfectly happy to ignore edubuntu/powerpc for beta, so it's not the end of the world, as long as we get the archive bug fixed soon.
[10:20] <Hobbsee> and how were you allowed back in?
[10:20] <mvo> infinity: I guess its missing support in germinate? the extraoverrides support arch-dependant tags
[10:20] <ogra> infinity, i'm not yet sure my amd64 install CDs are ok ...
[10:20] <mvo> pitti: amd64/desktop is up
[10:20] <ogra> the only thing thats really shiny is i386 ... 
[10:21] <mvo> pitti: the auto-install problem is fixed on live at least :)
[10:21] <ogra> infinity, my users will complain a lot ... if i can avoid that that would be nice :)
[10:21] <infinity> mvo: Well, germinate obviously works right for the metapackages. :)  It's the germinate->archive glue that's obviously lacking smarts, though.
[10:21] <infinity> ogra: I doubt we'll fix the archive today.
[10:22] <infinity> I can look into it, though.
[10:22] <ogra> right, if its the archive i cant do much
[10:22] <mvo> infinity: eh, that was what I meant. the soyuz guys told me that the generation of the overrides was part of germinate 
[10:23] <Hobbsee> BringZten: *eyebrow raise*
[10:23] <BringZten> Hi
[10:23] <Hobbsee> are you going to behave, or are you out to create trouble, yet again?
[10:23] <BringZten> behave.
[10:23] <Hobbsee> good.
[10:23] <BringZten> I was serious but this isnt the right channel.
[10:23] <BringZten> =)
[10:23] <pitti> mvo: confirmed, works fine on live
[10:25] <mvo> pitti: so its the way the install installs stuff on the disk :/
[10:25] <pitti> mvo: yes
[10:26] <mvo> pitti: I added a comment
[10:26] <pitti> ok, re-trying to boot this amd64 desktop with some expert options, bbl
[10:26] <tfheen> so, do we need new alternates due to the apt bug?
[10:27] <mvo> tfheen: it seems more like a problem the way the installer works right now
[10:27] <ogra> tfheen, could you wait a while until i tested amd64 ... i have a weird report for it ... and my isos finished only this morning to rsync
[10:28] <ogra> so if there is a chance for rebuilds i'd like to have some fix in if possible ...
[10:28] <tfheen> ogra: 'k
[10:29] <ogra> i just have to finish the ppc install here to be able to get on IRC if the worls explodes ... 
[10:34] <pitti> indeed, without 'splash quiet' the amd64/desktop boots for me
[10:34] <ogra> ok, at least my ltsp bug on ppc install is fixed ....
[10:35] <pitti> mvo: ugh, no more German translations on the desktop CD :/
[10:35] <mvo> pitti: yeah, I noticed that too :/
[10:35] <ogra> pitti, that should only affect the panel 
[10:35] <pitti> ogra: how do you mean?
[10:35] <ogra> i never had germany transaltions on edubuntu 
[10:36] <ogra> but the menu entries etc are usually in german ...
[10:36] <ogra> its only parts that are missing their translations (usually)
[10:36] <pitti> mvo: hm, I got U.S. keyboard although I selected German; can you confirm this?
[10:37] <mvo> pitti: yes
[10:37] <pitti> mvo: I usually choose U.S. keyboard anyway, but for the sake of testing I had German keyboard this time
[10:37] <mvo> pitti: and the installer defaults to US keyboard even if you select german as language
[10:38] <ogra> phew ... ppc install looks fine ... (yet)
[10:39] <pips1> testing german keyboard is much appreciated :)
[10:39] <ogra> pips1, arent you a de_CH type  ? 
[10:40] <pips1> yeah, but even de testing is good in my book :)
[10:40] <ogra> :)
[10:41] <pitti> mvo: did you already file bugs about that or shall I?
[10:42] <mvo> pitti: I haven't yet, I just wanted to confirm this again first (I have seen it last night when I was *very* tired)
[10:42] <mvo> pitti: but now amd64/live is not booting
[10:42] <mvo> oh well
[10:45] <ogra> pips1, did your amd64 get over the base install and did you get that "invalid release file" error in ltsp or even before ? 
[10:45] <pitti> mvo: bug 62738?
[10:45] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62738 in Ubuntu "amd64 desktop does not start" [High,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62738
[10:46] <pitti> mvo: anyway, when I noticed the keyboard thingy, I was already in ubiquity's keyboard chooser, so it was too late
[10:48] <mvo> pitti: right, I will report it when I can reproduce it again
[10:55] <pips1> ogra: erm, how can I tell?
[10:56] <ogra> well, did it break in "installing ltsp chroot" ?
[10:56] <pips1> I got it when it was trying to build ltsp chroot
[10:56] <ogra> or even before
[10:56] <ogra> ok
[10:56] <pips1> "half way" through
[10:56] <ogra> nope... thats only the progressbar
[10:57] <pips1> righty
[10:57] <ogra> its lying
[10:57] <pips1> :)
[10:58] <ogra> that error you describe must be at the very beginning ... i just wonder why the release file might be considered broken (the "installing base system" step does exactly the same)
[10:59] <pips1> hmm
[11:00] <ogra> i'll test soon ... ppc is nearly done ...
[11:01] <mvo> pitti: bug #62743
[11:01] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62743 in Ubuntu "US keyboard on the livecd when selecting german in the boot-menu" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62743
[11:01] <seb128> tfheen: hum, mono is still broken on the desktop CD :/
[11:02] <seb128> and I still get a qwerty layout when I pick french
[11:02] <mvo> seb128: qwerty is probably #62743 too
[11:02] <ogra> seb128, see mvo's bug :)
[11:03] <pitti> mvo: ah, so I wasn't hallucinating (I confirmed the bug)
[11:04] <pitti> ok, amd64/ubiquity install finished, let's look into it :)
[11:04] <ogra> woah, that 640x480 usplash picture looks so bad ...
[11:04] <ogra> but edubuntu ppc install works :)
[11:04] <fabbione> bah...
[11:05] <Kamion> morning
[11:05] <fabbione> ogra: can you try switching from X to console on ppc?
[11:05] <mvo> good morning Kamion
[11:05] <ogra> fabbione, will do ...
[11:05] <fabbione> morning Kamion
[11:05] <Kamion> mvo: it's not really part of germinate as such - it's a wrapper script built on top
[11:05] <ogra> waaahhh ... the sounds is way to loud
[11:05] <fabbione> X crashes badly here
[11:05] <fabbione> full machine hangs
[11:05] <ogra> dont we set it to 80% anymore ?
[11:05] <ogra> fabbione, works for me ... on the ibook
[11:05] <fabbione> meh
[11:06] <mvo> Kamion: in what repository is it? do I need to talk to cprov about it?
[11:06] <infinity> Kamion: How many minutes/hours of hack time would it take you to make the wrapper generate arch-dependant overrides?
[11:06] <Kamion> mvo: it's part of launchhpad
[11:06] <Kamion> launchpad
[11:06] <Kamion> infinity: not sure, will investigate
[11:06] <Kamion> is it beta-urgent?
[11:06] <infinity> Only if ogra wants ppc/desktop CDs.  Otherwise, not really.
[11:06] <infinity> But if it's a 5-minute hack, may as well.
[11:07] <infinity> If not, then it can wait.
[11:07] <elmo> if you're talking about the tasks, you'd have to change how launchpad writes it's apt.conf for apt-ftparchive
[11:07] <elmo> and do per architecture sections
[11:07] <Kamion> yeah, I thought it might be something like that ...
[11:07] <infinity> Oh, feh.
[11:07] <elmo> (which doesn't sound 5-minute to me...)
[11:07] <infinity> I thought it was just cron.germinate to blame here.
[11:08] <infinity> Yeah, the apt.conf mangling in the publisher is less obvious.
[11:08] <Kamion> do you happen to know how the file needs to change?
[11:08] <elmo> infinity: no - both dak and soyuz use one section per distro-release/suite, that covers all architectures -> on extra override file for all arches
[11:08] <Kamion> I don't know that bit of apt-ftparchive
[11:08] <ogra> infinity, since the install cd for ppc is ine i can live with broken live ones
[11:08] <ogra> *fine
[11:08] <elmo> only way to have per-architecture extra override files without hacking apt-ftparchive would be to write different 'tree' sections for each distro-release+architecture
[11:09] <Kamion> I thought apt-ftparchive already got hacked to support per-arch fields
[11:09] <elmo> btw, this is hand-waving speculation based on what I'd do in/for dak if we were still using it.  I am not team soyuz and I do not speak for them
[11:09] <mvo> elmo: can't we use the pkg/arch syntax? or is the apt-ftparchive too old for this?
[11:09] <Kamion> of course drescher is still using *hoary*'s apt-ftparchive
[11:09] <elmo> Kamion: in extra overrides? news to me, and we're still using hoary's apt-ftparchive
[11:10] <Kamion> can we please upgrade that at some point?
[11:10] <mvo> yeah apt-ftparchive has it, but not in hoary :/
[11:10] <infinity> Well, we want edgy's ideally anyway.
[11:10] <Kamion>   * Support architecture-specific extra overrides
[11:10] <Kamion>     (closes: #225947). Thanks to  Anthony Towns for idea and
[11:10] <Kamion>     the patch, thanks to Colin Watson for testing it.
[11:10] <infinity> For a variety of reasons.
[11:10] <Kamion> in 0.6.41
[11:10] <elmo> Kamion: I've had that discussion to death - please feel free to convince them of that
[11:10] <elmo> they seem more interested in rewriting apt-ftparchive
[11:11] <elmo> but i would say upgrading from hoary to later is not something you'd want to do before-preview
[11:11] <mvo> the new version would be much faster as well ..
[11:11] <infinity> elmo: No, doing it right after beta would be nice though.
[11:11] <fabbione> also because hoary is close to EOL
[11:11] <infinity> Kamion: Anyhow, ogra's said he can live with his breakage, so looking at this immediately post-beta would be nice to put on our TODO.
[11:12] <infinity> Kamion: And edgy's apt would be the ideal one to backport, since mvo's given us some other archive-related fixes recently.
[11:12] <Kamion> elmo: last I heard they were going to keep using apt-ftparchive for the distro for edgy, and trial the replacement on PPAs
[11:12] <Kamion> so there's a worthwhile window
[11:12] <mvo> infinity: when this gets started, please ping me so that I can double check again that we have everything etc
[11:13] <elmo> Kamion: I'd certainly hope so - given the replacement will be generating Packages/Sources for the entire distro including d-u and d-s
[11:13] <Kamion> indeed
[11:14] <Kamion> infinity: I can create *-live tasks fairly easily, but after beta
[11:14] <infinity> Kamion: I'm unconvinced that *-live as tasks is the correct solution anyway.
[11:15] <Kamion> why?
[11:15] <infinity> Kamion: That bug magically goes away completely if I'm allowed to roll out stacked-livefs post-beta.
[11:15] <Kamion> I thought we discussed that the other week
[11:15] <Kamion> it would be nice to have *-live as tasks anyway because rolling new metapackages for late changes is time we don't need to waste
[11:15] <infinity> Though it doesn't *hurt* to have *-live as tasks, I guess, it just feels like unnecessary cruft.
[11:15] <Kamion> tasks are less cruft than metapackages, honestly
[11:15] <infinity> Oh, fair point on the "screw metapackages" front.
[11:16] <infinity> I forgot baout that conversation.
[11:16] <Kamion> anyway, time to clear up universe syncs
[11:16] <infinity> I'm losing it in my old age.
[11:16] <carlos> Riddell: hi, did you imported already new kopete translations from upstream? Could I move it from kdenetwork to kopete in Rosetta?
[11:16] <Fujitsu> Kamion, yay :)
[11:17] <infinity> Kamion: Would you object to having -minimal as a task too, then, even if we never actually use it (cause we debootstrap it)?
[11:17] <infinity> Kamion: I find it moderately handy to check Task headers in the Packages files sometimes.
[11:19] <Kamion> infinity: I guess not
[11:20] <ogra2> argh
[11:21] <ogra2> amd64 is broken :(
[11:21] <ogra2> creap
[11:22] <ogra2> THANK YOU DEBIAN for disabling amd64 in ltsp !!!! 
[11:22] <ogra2> gah, how did i merge that  
[11:26] <pips1> ogra2: :/
[11:26] <mvo> Kamion:  would it be possible to change the way packages are installed via the alternate installer? to fix #61684? post-beta, but we should put it into the known-issues section 
[11:29] <pygi> morning all
[11:30] <Kamion> mvo: yeah, should be
[11:30] <Kamion> it'd just be a tasksel change
[11:31] <mvo> cool, thanks!
[11:33] <tfheen> seb128: mono> known, didn't make it for beta.
[11:34] <pygi> sivang: ping?
[11:35] <dholbach> what do I need to include in a bug report about ubiquity hanging in after the timezone configuration?
[11:35] <Kamion> dholbach: /var/log/syslog
[11:36] <seb128> dholbach: there is a g-s-t bug opened, time-admin crash when selecting a timezone if no timezone is set before
[11:36] <seb128> dholbach: is your issue time-admin crashing?
[11:36] <dholbach> I can't click 'next'
[11:36] <dholbach> no, there was not crash message
[11:36] <Kamion> dholbach: could you cancel ubiquity, and try again with 'sudo env UBIQUITY_DEBUG=1 ubiquity' please?
[11:37] <dholbach> sure
[11:37] <Kamion> then (a) there should be debconf debug output on stderr, which I'd like, and (b) /var/log/syslog should be more informative
[11:37] <Kamion> I must arrange for the debconf debug output to go to syslog
[11:37] <dholbach> urg, now it worked
[11:38] <dholbach> i'll do all the installations with UBIQUITY_DEBUG=1 now
[11:38] <mvo> I'm adding a "Known issues" to the EdgyEft/Beta page. I add mono, nvidia usplash-amd64, apt-auto-install/alternate. anything else?
[11:38] <seb128> mvo: the keyboard layout thing?
[11:38] <dholbach> seb128: already there
[11:38] <dholbach> ah no
[11:38] <mvo> seb128: right
[11:38] <dholbach> different page
[11:38] <ogra2> mvo:  no amd64 install CD for edubuntu
[11:38] <Kamion> dholbach: might want to reboot and try again, same procedure
[11:38] <ogra2> and no ppc live
[11:39] <Kamion> except this time start with UBIQUITY_DEBUG=1
[11:39] <dholbach> Kamion: right-p
[11:39] <dholbach> right-o
[11:39] <mvo> ogra2: do you have a bugnumber?
[11:40] <ogra2> mvo: not yet ... let me get my grub back on my main machine ... 
[11:40] <mvo> ok
[11:41] <heno> Kamion: are the AT casper settings supposed to work now or is it still pending (in beta freeze perhaps)? I doesn't work in my tests
[11:41] <heno> #58836
[11:41] <\sh> I know this question is not suitable for this channel, but does anyone know someone who installed an oracle server 10g on dapper?
[11:45] <Kamion> heno: the casper accessibility script is broken
[11:45] <Kamion> I found that last night and SMSed it to tfheen
[11:45] <heno> Kamion: ok, thanks
[11:45] <heno> you SMSed the script? :)
[11:45] <Kamion> let me make sure my fixes are committed
[11:45] <heno> ok, cool
[11:45] <Kamion> no, it was just an extra "fi" so describable in an SMS
[11:45] <heno> right
[11:45] <tfheen> Kamion: it's not set -e, so it doesn't matter, though
[11:46] <Kamion> tfheen: sh bails out on the syntax error, I believe
[11:46] <tfheen> Kamion: gnr, ok.
[11:46] <tfheen> silly sh.
[11:46] <tfheen> :-P
[11:46] <Kamion> I'm going to make casper run 'sh -n' over everything on build
[11:46] <tfheen> thanks
[11:47] <ogra> mvo, bug #62750
[11:47] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62750 in ltsp "merge oversight, not possible to build amd64 chroots anymore" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62750
[11:48] <dholbach> Kamion: still works - I'll let you know as soon as I dig something up
[11:48] <Kamion> ok
[11:48] <Kamion> argh
[11:48] <Kamion> bzr: ERROR: Lock was broken while still open: LockDir(sftp://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Eubuntu-core-dev/casper/trunk/.bzr/repository/lock) - check storage consistency!
[11:48] <Kamion> tfheen: were you committing at the same time?
[11:49] <tfheen> Kamion: I committed a minute ago, but bzr errored out:
[11:49] <tfheen> bzr: ERROR: rmdir failed
[11:49] <Kamion> we obviously clashe
[11:49] <Kamion> d
[11:49] <tfheen> try to run bzr update?
[11:49] <Kamion> this is a known bzr bug; mdz and I ran into it with the seeds
[11:49] <ogra> does that mean we'll get a rebuild ? 
[11:49] <mvo> ogra: thanks, added
[11:50] <Kamion> update works, but I bet the lock is still hanging around. I'll prod via sftp
[11:50] <Kamion> ogra: does what mean that we'll get a rebuild?
[11:50] <ogra> Kamion, what you guys are doing there 
[11:50] <tfheen> ogra: at least my fix isn't beta-critical
[11:50] <ogra> if so i'll try to fix the amd64 ltsp bug 
[11:50] <ogra> ok
[11:50] <ogra> then i'll go without amd64 for beta
[11:51] <ogra> (i dont want to cause a rebuild, but if you do one anyway, please ping)
[11:52] <seb128> Kamion: on what package should the "desktopCD set a qwerty keymap instead of the one corresponding to the locale picked" bugs be assigned?
[11:53] <Kamion> seb128: ubiquity
[11:53] <Kamion> seb128: same directions as for dholbach
[11:53] <seb128> Kamion: but ubiquity is not running at that stage, is it?
[11:53] <Kamion> oh, that
[11:53] <seb128> Kamion: the issue is on the desktopCD environment
[11:53] <Kamion> seb128: gfxboot-theme-ubuntu then, please; describe exactly what you did at the boot prompt
[11:53] <tfheen> possibly casper too
[11:54] <Riddell> Kamion: trying a netboot I end up with a dapper install, is that likely to be a bug or me having done something stupid?
[11:54] <tfheen> seb128: please include /proc/cmdline too
[11:54] <seb128> I pressed F2 and picked french
[11:54] <Kamion> describe it in the bug, not here :)
[11:54] <seb128> german guys (mvo, pitti,) have the same issue
[11:54] <seb128> k ;)
[11:54] <Kamion> Riddell: where did you get the netboot image from?
[11:54] <dholbach> ok, Kamion: got the bug again: http://daniel.holba.ch/temp/ubiquity-debug.log  - especially the last line is weird
[11:55] <Riddell> Kamion: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/edgy/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/
[11:55] <dholbach> Kamion: any of your ubiquity bug tags you'd like me to use?
[11:56] <Kamion> Riddell: sounds like a bug - I'd like /var/log/installer/cdebconf/questions.dat
[11:56] <Kamion> dholbach: er, WTF
[11:56] <Kamion> I have no idea where that message comes from; do you have any idea?
[11:56] <Kamion> dholbach: no, none of the tags are suitable
[11:56] <Kamion> mark it high importance though please
[11:57] <dholbach> ok
[11:57] <dholbach> anything I could try to debug?
[11:57] <Kamion> you could grep your system for bits of that message, I guess ...
[11:57] <dholbach> ok
[11:57] <Kamion> or see what processes are running?
[11:57] <Kamion> also /var/log/syslog would still be helpful
[11:57] <dholbach> ok, i'll attach that too
[11:57] <Kamion> thanks
[12:00] <seb128> Kamion, tfheen: bug #61050
[12:00] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 61050 in gfxboot-theme-ubuntu "[Edgy]  Knot-3 Live CD sets up keyboard in English instead of Spanish" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61050
[12:00] <seb128> updating title too now :p
[12:02] <dholbach> Kamion: bug 62752 - grep is still running
[12:02] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62752 in ubiquity "timezone selection in ubiquity hangs, when just proceeding and clicking next" [High,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62752
[12:02] <ogra2> eeek ... who translates "install commandline system" to "einen server installieren"
[12:02] <ogra2> +thats evil
[12:04] <Kamion> ogra2: I fuzzied that translation when I renamed server to command-line
[12:04] <Kamion> ogra2: did you actually see it on the boot menu?
[12:04] <ogra2> yes
[12:04] <ogra2> right now 
[12:04] <Kamion> ogra2: please file a gfxboot-theme-ubuntu bug saying that it isn't properly ignoring fuzzy translations, then
[12:04] <ogra2> the english version is fine ...
[12:04] <ogra2> willdo
[12:04] <Kamion> it obviously wasn't deliberately translated that way
[12:09] <dholbach> Keybuk: do you have any idea, why this could happen on edgy amd64:  http://daniel.holba.ch/temp/edgy-20060927-1.png ?
[12:15] <dholbach> Kamion: that's something in dbus
[12:15] <Kamion> what the hell's using dbus anyway
[12:15] <dholbach> Kamion: dbus-daemon, lidbus-1.so seem to contain that string
[12:15] <Kamion> gnome-screensaver-command is the only candidate I can think of
[12:16] <dholbach> how does the timezone-map-thingie work? which piece of code are you re-using there?
[12:16] <seb128> gnome-system-tools uses dbus too
[12:16] <Kamion> from evolution via g-s-t
[12:16] <Kamion> but it doesn't use dbus
[12:16] <seb128> g-s-t communicates to the backend over dbus
[12:16] <Kamion> seb128: ubiquity doesn't invoke g-s-t unless you press the "Set Time" button
[12:16] <seb128> s/to/with
[12:16] <seb128> ok
[12:17] <Kamion> the map widget is just gtk drawing code
[12:18] <dholbach> I added that bit of information to the bug report too, in any case
[12:20] <Keybuk> dholbach: isn't that the nvidia bug?
[12:20] <Kamion> ubiquity calls gnome-screensaver-command --poke every 30 seconds to stop the screensaver kicking in
[12:21] <dholbach> Keybuk: oh, does that happen with the 'nv' driver too?
[12:21] <dholbach> Keybuk: this amd64 box does has an nvidia card
[12:22] <Keybuk> I don't know, mjg59 would know more
[12:22] <Keybuk> I think it's a card bug
[12:22] <dholbach> aha?
[12:22] <dholbach> it used to work before ;-)
[12:22] <Keybuk> svgalib not friends, or something
[12:22] <dholbach> ah right
[12:22] <dholbach> ok - thanks
[12:24] <dholbach> Kamion: do we have a bug about choosing to partition  /dev/sdb  manually, then gparted showing  /dev/sda ?
[12:26] <guyo> Hi all. Should I file a bug with ubuntu to request support for "E_CONTACT_PHONE_HOME_2" and "E_CONTACT_PHONE_BUSINESS_2" in contact-lookup-applet ? if this is not a case, what should i do ? I have a (laughably simple) patch for it already
[12:27] <dholbach> guyo: could you file a bug with the patch at  http://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/contact-lookup-applet/+filebug  ?
[12:29] <guyo> dholbach: sure, i didn't know if i had to file a "bug" since it was more an enhancement and there were no switches in launchpad to specify what kind of "bug" it was
[12:30] <dholbach> guyo: bugs with patches are fine
[12:30] <guyo> dholbach: thanks, will do
[12:30] <dholbach> guyo: thanks a lot
[12:31] <Kamion> dholbach: yes, there's a bug about gparted not managing to deal with more than one hard disk at the moment
[12:31] <Kamion> I can't look at it until I have my vmware setup available again
[12:32] <dholbach> Kamion: ok, I'll try to find it and follow up on it and attach my ubiquity log
[12:32] <seb128> tfheen, Kamion: I just uploadaed a new gnome-utils package revisions with a Build-Depends on liblaunchpad-integration-dev, fixing the build issue it has. The previous version which didn't build fixed some patches (lpi, menu changes) dropped and make the "Applications,System Tools" category not been listed by default again
[12:32] <seb128> dunno if the menu cleanup matters for beta, probably not
[12:33] <dholbach> and I have a edgy-wallpapery upload pending fixing the "artwork preview" text not to be under the panel - if that is deemed important enough (visible it is :-)), I'd prepare and upload that one too
[12:35] <mvo> could someone let me know if we rebuild alternate again? I have a trivial patch pending for the cdromupgrade script then
[12:36] <ogra> i just uploaded a fixed ltsp version ... if we could rebuild that would be cool (at least edubuntu amd64)
[12:37] <mvo> ogra: if that is fixed, please update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyEft/Beta (KnownIssues)
[12:37] <ogra> mvo, well, the beta CD will still be broken ...
[12:37] <pitti> seb128: ping?
[12:37] <seb128> pitti: pong
[12:37] <pitti> seb128: on the powerpc desktop, gnome-settings-daemon consistently fails to start
[12:37] <pitti> seb128: do you have some hints how to debug that?
[12:38] <seb128> pitti: is your clock correctly set?
[12:38] <ogra> mvo, so unless we'll have an alternate rebuild its still true
[12:38] <tfheen> pitti: can you start i manually?
[12:38] <seb128> pitti: one frequent cause is 'year is 1904' or something like that
[12:38] <pitti> seb128: ah, heh, right
[12:38] <ogra> yes, thats typical
[12:39] <pitti> seb128: no, date is correct
[12:39] <seb128> :/
[12:39] <seb128> pitti: can you try running it from a command line ?
[12:40] <pitti> (bah, something is DoSing my hard disk, gimme a minute)
[12:40] <Fujitsu> Thanks Kamion.
[12:41] <pitti> seb128: yep, I started it, now I get the ubuntu theme instead of the blue one
[12:41] <seb128> bah
[12:41] <seb128> so it fails from the session but starts correctly by hand :/
[12:41] <seb128> anything useful to ~/.xsession-errors?
[12:41] <pitti> seb128: this does not happen on the ubiquity-installed system either
[12:42] <dholbach> Kamion: found it: bug 61350
[12:42] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 61350 in ubiquity "[edgy knot 3]  Manual Partitioning does not allow editing of second drive" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61350
[12:42] <dholbach> i'll follow up there
[12:42] <seb128> pitti: that happens on desktopCD boot every time?
[12:42] <Kamion> dholbach: please look at gparted
[12:42] <tfheen> pitti: if you get the "could not start" dialog, it's probably dbus activation timeout being too low.
[12:42] <pitti> seb128: only on powerpc
[12:42] <tfheen> pitti: I've seen that before, but on amd64.
[12:42] <pitti> yeah, sounds like a race condition
[12:42] <pitti> since on the installed system it works
[12:42] <Kamion> because I'll be marking that ubiquity bug as a duplicate when I get round to it
[12:42] <pitti> but the CD is slow ion my laptop
[12:43] <seb128> mdz got a similar issue once
[12:43] <ogra> seb128, i heard about it on ltsp, but didnt see it myself yet 
[12:43] <seb128> but with no data and no way to reproduce it that's no fun to debug
[12:43] <dholbach> Kamion: right - I'll look for upstream patches that might fix that
[12:43] <ogra> i think sbalneav told me about it, i'll try to get him reproducing it
[12:43] <tfheen> seb128: it's because we're using dbus activation and the timeout by default is 15s or something.
[12:43] <pitti> seb128: hm, nothing helpful in .xsession-errors
[12:43] <tfheen> seb128: I've talked with you about it before. :-P
[12:44] <seb128> tfheen: right ;)
[12:44] <pitti> ok
[12:44] <seb128> workaround: extend the 15s
[12:44] <pitti> seb128: shall I file a bug?
[12:44] <seb128> pitti: on dbus? ;)
[12:44] <pitti> it's not a big deal, live goes on without it
[12:44] <pitti> seb128: well, if the timeout is in dbus, sure
[12:45] <seb128> pitti: I'm not sure that's a gnome-settings-daemon issue, it depends on dbus working
[12:45] <Kamion> dholbach: don't bother, I think it's edgy-specific
[12:45] <Kamion> dholbach: I'm happy to deal with it, just next week
[12:45] <tfheen> dbus should really have a longer timeout.
[12:45] <Kamion> dholbach: somebody already went upstream
[12:45] <pitti> tfheen: ok, I'll file a dbus bug then
[12:46] <dholbach> Kamion: Ok - I'll try some more installations then and plug out the other disk. :)
[12:49] <pitti> seb128: I filed bug 62736, I'll look into it after beta
[12:49] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62736 in gnome-volume-manager "Volume Manager unresponsive in Gnome and command line" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62736
[12:49] <ogra> could someone approve my ltsp upload so that in the unlikely case of an alternate rebuild the binaries are there ?
[12:49] <pitti> bug 62763 even
[12:49] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62763 in dbus "dbus activation timeout too short" [Low,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62763
[12:49] <seb128> pitti: ok, thank you
[12:50] <infinity> tfheen: You're fine with ogra's ltsp upload?
[12:51] <infinity> mvo: Is your dist-upgrade upload beta-critical?
[12:51] <tfheen> ogra: do you have your ltsp diff somewhere?
[12:51] <ogra> err, tfheen wait a sec ... bzr disagrees with debdiff ...
[12:51] <mvo> infinity: no, but *if* alternate would be rebuild again it would be a trivial fix that should be in too
[12:52] <infinity> tfheen: Same for mvo's dist-upgrader, then.
[12:52] <tfheen> I'm really, really, really hoping we won't rebuild at this point.
[12:53] <infinity> So am I, but I can push this stuff through quickly, "just in case".
[12:53] <ogra> tfheen, but *if* it would be nice to have the fixes there :)
[12:53] <infinity> If that's wanted.
[12:53] <ogra> infinity, not for me yet, i need to find out why bzr export didnt export the full patch
[12:53] <mvo> tfheen: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/tmp/dist-upgrader-20060928.1238.diff <- the diff
[12:55] <lastnode> infinity, i keep pinging you on the weekend. is it still the weekend over there? ;-)
[12:55] <infinity> lastnode: Doesn't appear to be.
[12:56] <lastnode> infinity, got a second? you may not recall but we spoke a little about a project when i first came in here a few months back
[12:56] <tfheen> mvo: there's no changelog.  What does it fix?
[12:56] <infinity> lastnode: I have a vague recollection of discussing something or other with you.
[12:57] <lastnode> infinity, is now a good time? i can always ping you later.
[12:57] <infinity> lastnode: After beta is out would be better.
[12:57] <lastnode> sure infinity, cheers
[12:58] <mvo> tfheen: it fixes the cdromupgrade script. it assumes it gets a absolute path later but mktemp -d bla gives a relative one
[12:59] <pygi> hello, could somebody please kick libburn 0.2.2-0ubuntu2 from NEW for me, thank you :)
[01:00] <ogra> ah, silly me ... i have a wrong package around i debdiff against ...
[01:00] <infinity> pygi: Why is libburn-doc arch:any instead of arch:all?
[01:00] <pygi> infinity: dunno, I haven't packaged it
[01:01] <tfheen> mvo: what happens if we don't include it?
[01:01] <ogra> tfheen, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/ltsp-debdiff.txt
[01:01] <slomo_> pitti: regarding bug #62763... might this be the bug that seb128 told me about yesterday that's fixable with libxt-dev as dbus build-dependency or the correct fix i have locally (i.e. regenerating the autotools patch with a non-broken autoconf)?
[01:01] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62763 in dbus "dbus activation timeout too short" [Low,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62763
[01:01] <infinity> pygi: Care to prod ivoks about it?
[01:02] <pygi> infinity: uh, then it would take a lot of time, he isn't online much
[01:02] <infinity> pygi: Or fix it.  Your choice.
[01:02] <pygi> infinity: ok, I'll fix it
[01:03] <ajmitch> better chance of getting brasero done that way :)
[01:03] <pygi> ajmitch: indeed, we don't have much time
[01:03] <infinity> pygi: Other curious oddities about the package: libisofs and libburn don't have an SOVER in the package name.  That's a bit wrong.
[01:03] <slomo_> ajmitch: brasero is in NEW currently btw... but the non-libburn version ;)
[01:04] <infinity> pygi: Oh, wait, that was an old version.  The current one does.
[01:04] <ajmitch> slomo_: right, I didn't know it was done, I can move onto more important stuff then
[01:04] <pygi> slomo_: I don't want non-libburn version :)
[01:04] <dholbach> one of my power cables just died
[01:04] <infinity> pygi: So, yeah, my only complaint is the doc package.
[01:04] <dholbach> how weird is that
[01:05] <infinity> pygi: When you change it to arch:all, make sure the package still builds properly with "dpkg-buildpackage -B" and "dpkg-buildpackage -b"
[01:05] <ogra> dholbach, get a cable with cooling ;)
[01:05] <slomo_> pygi, ajmitch: was a "sync" from pkg-gnome svn... but it's the non-libburn version because the one with libburn support is called "unstable development version" or something similar ;)
[01:05] <ajmitch> slomo_: figures
[01:05] <pygi> slomo_: it's stable :P
[01:06] <dholbach> ogra: right - I'll set that on my list next to the new dvd drive
[01:06] <ogra> dholbach, but avoid water cooled ones ;)
[01:06] <ajmitch> slomo_: how confusing, your last changelog said sync with pkg-mono svn ;)
[01:06] <dholbach> ogra: I hope I learnt the lesson about water and computers
[01:07] <dholbach> and a broken harddisk... nice
[01:07] <dholbach> this feels like hardware spring cleanup
[01:07] <ogra> phew .. you had a lot of trouble recently
[01:07] <slomo_> ajmitch: oops :)
[01:07] <pygi> slomo_: so even if I package libburn version we cant get it in?
[01:08] <ogra> infinity, disregard my mumbling about the ltsp package ... what i uploaded is fine ... the local old package i had here was wrong ...
[01:08] <tfheen> ogra: I'm fine with approving it, but I don't want to rebuild for beta..
[01:08] <ogra> tfheen, ok 
[01:08] <tfheen> ogra: so it's kinda irrelevant
[01:08] <infinity> I'll aprove it and push it through, on a "just in case" basis.
[01:08] <infinity> Deal?
[01:08] <ogra> deal :)
[01:09] <infinity> (But I doubt we'll find any showstoppers at this point)
[01:09] <tfheen> infinity: please do.
[01:09] <infinity> tfheen: Same with mvo's dist-upgrader?
[01:09] <tfheen> infinity: I'm still waiting for an answer to what's broken if it's not approved, so not yet.
[01:09] <infinity> mvo: ?
[01:10] <slomo_> dholbach: when exactly does universe freeze start? now, 23:59 or when? :)
[01:10] <dholbach> slomo_: I doubt it's me deciding that - bug 23:59 UTC would make everybody happy, I guess ;-)
[01:10] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 23 in baz "baz redo should use merge3 for conflicts like most other commands do." [Medium,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/23
[01:10] <infinity> slomo_: When Kamion's done processing universe syncs. :)
[01:10] <dholbach> s/bug/but
[01:10] <slomo_> dholbach: ok ;) 23:59 UTC sounds ok ;)
[01:11] <ajmitch> and then poor kamion has the backlog of new source packages
[01:11] <slomo_> pygi: well, the libburn versions are called development releases... no idea... if you want i can give you the package that's currently in NEW and you update it to the libburn version ;)
[01:11] <ajmitch> that rate of new uploads has gone up in the last week or so
[01:12] <mvo> infinity: yes please
[01:12] <mvo> (within the 2min :)
[01:12] <infinity> mvo: 05:09 < tfheen> infinity: I'm still waiting for an answer to what's broken if it's not approved
[01:13] <pitti> tkamppeter: I did some digging for bug 40795; do you have an idea about that?
[01:13] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40795 in cupsys "cannot create printers in live system" [High,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40795
[01:13] <pitti> tkamppeter: (brb for discussion, rebooting)
[01:13] <mvo> tfheen: if we don't include it, please won't be able to easily test the cdromupgrade. they will require a backport of update-notifier
[01:14] <ogra> tfheen, oh, wouldnt a edubuntu amd64 install only rebuild be possible ? 
[01:14] <tfheen> ogra: it would, but do you have time to test it properly?
[01:14] <ogra> you mentioned something like that yesterday 
[01:14] <mvo> tfheen: the backport is required anyway so its not that bad. it would be a nice-to-have though
[01:14] <ogra> tfheen, well, it will take me ~2h to test
[01:14] <tfheen> mvo: so it doesn't really matter, then?
[01:14] <tfheen> ogra: including soyuz + cd building time?
[01:15] <tfheen> and rsync
[01:15] <ogra> so it depends somewhat on the tsp package build speed
[01:15] <ogra> *ltsp
[01:15] <infinity> soyuz turnaround is going to be about 70 mins from when I push the button.
[01:15] <mvo> tfheen: its not worth a rebuild no (as I said earlier)
[01:15] <tfheen> mvo: ok.
[01:15] <ogra> the rsync works fine today, should be done in a minute for that change
[01:15] <tfheen> mvo: I'll hold it off, then.
[01:15] <tfheen> infinity: thanks.
[01:16] <mvo> ok
[01:16] <mvo> thanks
[01:16] <slomo_> pygi: so what do you think? :)
[01:16] <pygi> slomo_: lemme solve the libburn first :)
[01:16] <pygi> ok? :)
[01:17] <slomo_> pygi: ok ;) but only ~12 hours left until universe freeze
[01:17] <pygi> slomo_: yes, I know that :(
[01:17] <ogra> slomo_, it would be nice to have something that uses libburn in the archive ... so it gets user testing ... we plan to do some stuff with libburn in edgy+1 with ltsp
[01:18] <slomo_> ogra: yes, agreed... but on the other hand brasero is a really nice application and i would hate it if it's broken for edgy :(
[01:18] <ogra> right
[01:20] <pygi> slomo_: don't see why would it be broken?
[01:22] <ajmitch> libburn package needs some love before use, I'd say
[01:24] <slomo_> pygi: imho development release sounds scary and libburn support is rather new and nothing used libburn before so we don't really know how well libburn behaves... one month earlier or something we would've enough testing and time to fix anything that might show up but now it's really late ;)
[01:24] <pygi> slomo_: actually cdrskin uses libburn :) If you want I can show you how to burn cd using k3b over libburn :)
[01:25] <ajmitch> slomo_: I'm just looking at the libburn package, it makes me sad
[01:25] <slomo_> ajmitch: why?
[01:25] <pygi> slomo_:  a lot of packaging issues
[01:26] <ajmitch> very loose shlibs, explicit depends on libc6, -dev packages don't require any specific libburn-1 version, etc
[01:26] <ajmitch> and the SONAME is libburn.so.2, while the package is libburn-1
[01:26] <slomo_> ajmitch: is this the package in the archive?
[01:27] <ajmitch> the package in binary NEW
[01:27] <ajmitch> which infinity hasn't quite let through, afaik
[01:27] <ajmitch> I haven't looked at 0.2-2 in the archive
[01:27] <slomo_> probably should be rejected then and fixed before imho
[01:27] <ajmitch> yeah
[01:27] <tfheen> ogra: haven't you tested any of your live CDs and only i386 installs?
[01:27] <infinity> I'm rejecting it anyway.
[01:27] <slomo_> pygi: ok but how many users are using this already? but i guess for edgy+1 it would make sense to move everything to libburn very early
[01:27] <infinity> pygi: The SONAME and package name don't match still, apparently.  Fix that too, please. :)
[01:27] <ajmitch> infinity: thanks, I'll look at overhauling it
[01:28] <pygi> infinity: obviously I should create a new package :)
[01:28] <infinity> ajmitch: The SONAME thing and the "doc package is arch:any, not arch:all" things are the two blockers for me.
[01:28] <infinity> ajmitch: You and pygi can fight over who gets to fix it.
[01:28] <pygi> slomo_: true, but we don't get edgy audience then
[01:28] <ogra> tfheen, i tested i386 live ..its fine 
[01:28] <pygi> infinity: perhaps just that two blockers for you, but there are more issues
[01:28] <ogra> tfheen, i'm just a bit behind on the wiki, sorry
[01:28] <pygi> we can't let it in like that
[01:28] <ajmitch> I've got plenty enough to do, pygi can fix it if he can get everything sorted by freeze :)
[01:29] <tfheen> ogra: ok.  What about amd64 and powerpcs?
[01:29] <infinity> pygi: Oh, I'm sure there are lots.  Those are the two obvious "I don't want to ACCEPT this" blockers.
[01:29] <pygi> right :)
[01:29] <ogra> tfheen, powepc live is exploded due to an archive bug
[01:29] <ajmitch> tfheen: fyi I've got xen userspace headers, and libvirt built
[01:30] <tfheen> ajmitch: you're aware of the git repo zul and I are using for xen (the kernel bits)?
[01:30] <ajmitch> tfheen: yep, I've got that checked out
[01:31] <ajmitch> while zul is off sorting 2.6.17 I'm helping him with the userspace parts
[01:31] <tfheen> coolie
[01:31] <dholbach> Kamion: did you already get a bug about gparted showing no partitions and harddisks, but a "next" button, which brings you to a screen where I can choose the 3 existing partitions and assign mountpoints?
[01:32] <pygi> slomo_: dunno what to do with Brasero. Would be great if we could squeeze it in Edgy, but if you really think it'll break something...
[01:33] <ogra> ARGH
[01:33] <ogra> who didnt respect my lock
[01:33] <ogra> grmbl
[01:33] <Kamion> dholbach: no
[01:33] <Kamion> dholbach: well, maybe, but hard to say :)
[01:33] <slomo_> pygi: yes... but i would prefer no edgy audience over one million bugs that we can't fix anymore for edgy after release... i don't think it _will_ break but it _might_ break and we could get no chance to fix it for edgy
[01:33] <pitti> hi rodarvus 
[01:33] <Kamion> dholbach: that's usually because gparted crashed; please attach /var/log/syslog
[01:33] <dholbach> Kamion: alright - i'll try to find it, then file it on my own
[01:33] <rodarvus> hi pitti!
[01:34] <dholbach> Kamion: I'm sorry to pester you like that
[01:34] <slomo_> pygi: on another topic... are there n-c-b patches to use libburn? :)
[01:34] <Kamion> dholbach: no, please don't ever attach information to an existing ubiquity bug that somebody else filed
[01:34] <pygi> slomo_: ah, ok then
[01:34] <dholbach> Kamion: alright
[01:34] <pygi> slomo_: translate "n-c-b" for me pls :)
[01:34] <Kamion> it's much more work to untangle multiple problems from one bug than it is to mark bugs as duplicates
[01:34] <slomo_> pygi: nautilus-cd-burner
[01:34] <pygi> slomo_: oh, no, not really
[01:35] <slomo_> pygi: and please don't get me wrong, i would love to change everything from using cdrecord to something sane... but not now :)
[01:35] <slomo_> pygi: hmm, did you already talk with n-c-b upstream about this?
[01:35] <pygi> slomo_: no
[01:37] <pygi> slomo_: I'm not sure who exactly n-c-b people are as first point, and as second I'd like to approach them once libburn 1.0 is out
[01:37] <pygi> which at our current development speed with two and a half developers shouldn't take too much really
[01:38] <pygi> slomo_: is n-c-b based on cdrecord currently?
[01:38] <slomo_> pygi: ok, that's good :) well, look at /usr/share/doc/nautilus-cd-burner/copyright ;)
[01:38] <pygi> slomo_: if so, you could easily talk it into using libburn (if it's based on cdrecord)
[01:38] <slomo_> in edgy, yes... in debian it uses the debian cdrecord fork (forgot it's name)
[01:38] <tfheen> wodim
[01:38] <pygi> right, wodim
[01:39] <pygi> slomo_: well, you can easily change it to use libburn without source code changes :)
[01:40] <pygi> slomo_: want instructions? :P
[01:42] <dholbach> Kamion: bug 62772
[01:42] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62772 in ubiquity "gparted shows no partitions, but a next button (which brings you to the partition-mountpoint screen)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62772
[01:44] <Kamion> dholbach: http://librarian.launchpad.net/4536398/syslog gives a 403
[01:44] <dholbach> uh?
[01:44] <Kamion> interesting though, that's a gparted bug - gparted is starting up fine, just not displaying anything
[01:44] <ogra> did you change the premissions before uploading ? 
[01:45] <dholbach> Kamion: i'll try to add it again
[01:45] <gnomefreak> what kernel is default in the 386 installer now?
[01:46] <ogra> -10
[01:46] <gnomefreak> i meant 386 486 586 -generic?
[01:46] <slomo_> pygi: sure
[01:46] <ogra> 386
[01:46] <gnomefreak> ty
[01:46] <ajmitch> slomo_: ok, I think I got most of the libburn issues :)
[01:47] <pygi> slomo_: install cdrskin and just link "cdrecord" binary to "cdrskin" binary
[01:47] <mvo> Kamion: have you seen something #62644 before? I have seen this yesterday on a friends system
[01:47] <seb128> bug 62644
[01:47] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62644 in ubiquity "Various freezes with ubiquity on AMD64 Edgy" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62644
[01:47] <dholbach> Kamion: attached a new one
[01:48] <slomo_> pygi: ok, that's what i expected :) i'll test that later... but i guess when using libburn directly you don't have to exec another app for burning?
[01:48] <pygi> slomo_: ofcourse not. libburn is a library :P
[01:49] <infinity> ogra: Will this new ltsp require an amd64/live rebuild too, or just amd64/install?
[01:49] <pygi> infinity: livecd doesn't have ltsp I think
[01:49] <pygi> but ogra will tell
[01:50] <ogra> infinity: only install ... live doesnt ship ltsp
[01:50] <Kamion> mvo: no, sorry
[01:51] <pygi> I was even correct :P
[01:51] <infinity> ogra: Alright.  I'll respin that image for you as soon as the publisher's done.
[01:51] <ogra> infinity: wowie, thanks a lot !
[02:16] <infinity> ogra: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/20060928.2/
[02:16] <ogra> yay, thanks :)
[02:23] <bddebian> Howdy folks
[02:28] <slomo_> Remenic: ping? :)
[02:30] <Kamion> jdong: could you or one of the other backporters confirm the backport request for xmoto 0.2.1-1 in bug 57754, please?
[02:30] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 57754 in Baltix "Please backport xmoto" [Undecided,Rejected]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/57754
[02:34] <bddebian> Hmm, someone is cleaning out the queue this morning
[02:47] <ogra> oh nooo 
[02:47] <ogra> there is no linux-image-amd64-generic package anymore ? not even as transitional package ?
[02:48] <ogra> oh crap ...
[02:48] <pitti> that will hurt us for dapper upgrades, right?
[02:49] <ogra> and for my ltsp rebuild 
[02:49] <ogra> infinity: sorry, it didnt help ....
[02:49] <ogra> now its failing on teh kernel install ... even the other bug is fixed
[02:51] <AnAnt> did Ubuntu remove the ability to set hardware clock to GMT while system clock to some timezone ?
[02:51] <AnAnt> in Edgy that is
[02:52] <seb128> AnAnt: no, edit /etc/default/rcS, the UTC= option
[02:53] <AnAnt> seb128: thanks, why can't I find it in time-admin 
[02:54] <seb128> AnAnt: because there is no option for it, and there was no option for it before neither
[02:54] <AnAnt> seb128: I remember I configured it somewhere before without having to edit that file
[02:55] <seb128> where?
[03:02] <sfllaw> Kamion: Ping?
[03:05] <ogra> pitti: hmm, that package seems to exists ... its just not on the CDs
[03:05] <ogra> (the transitional one)
[03:05] <ogra> so it will probably break on CD upgrades
[03:05] <infinity> Hrm, yeah, probably needs to be in ship for CD upgrades.  Good point.
[03:05] <ogra> yep ...
[03:06] <sfllaw> Kamion: I was wondering if there are any switches to up d-i's verbosity.  Specifically for "in-target".
[03:06] <ogra> well at least one positive outcome of the rebuild then :)
[03:22] <ogra> dholbach_: oh, since when are you with alice ? 
[03:23] <pygi> infinity: ping
[03:23] <pygi> infinity: kick the libburn if it suits you pls :)
[03:24] <pitti> can I upload a new openssl? I'm fine with having it stalled until after beta, but I'd like to get it into edgy ASAP
[03:42] <tfheen> ogra: You're happy (as it goes) with the current state?
[03:42] <tfheen> Riddell: you too happy with your current ISOs?
[03:43] <Riddell> tfheen: i am yes
[03:43] <tfheen> Riddell: ok, thanks.
[03:44] <infinity> pitti: You can upload whatever you like, I'll just not approve it until after beta.
[03:44] <Riddell> matthewrevell: your presenkse has reminded me, did the lugradio episode go out?
[03:44] <ogra> tfheen: well, happy is something else ... but i'm ok with it
[03:44] <matthewrevell> Riddell: It's due to go out on Monday.
[03:44] <tfheen> ogra: you have to have something to improve on for release, you know.
[03:44] <tfheen> ogra: feel free to update http://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyReleaseNotes 
[03:45] <matthewrevell> Riddell: Sorry, that's Monday 9th October
[03:45] <tfheen> Riddell: if you have problems in your release, feel free to update ^^ too
[03:45] <ogra> tfheen: i'm more coincerned about people upgrading from dapper on amd64 without the transitional kernel package on teh CD
[03:45] <tfheen> ogra: add it to the list of release notes, then.
[03:45] <tfheen> ogra: I guess telling you "you should have tested upgrades before" doesn't help? :-P
[03:45] <ogra> tfheen: will do ... fixing it is trivial for me either way
[03:45] <pygi> infinity: looks nice or?
[03:46] <ogra> tfheen: did *you* test upgrades, its not edubuntu specific
[03:46] <Riddell> tfheen: there's no changes to the ISOs I want for the beta.  should I be testing DVDs?
[03:46] <ogra> tfheen: linux-image-amd64-generic is not on any of teh CDs
[03:46] <ogra> tfheen: but all dapper users have it ...
[03:47] <tfheen> Riddell: if you had done so, it would have been useful, yes.
[03:47] <Riddell> tfheen: should we not make new DVDs to match today's CDs?
[03:47] <tfheen> Riddell: we could, sure.
[03:49] <Riddell> tfheen: I'll do that now
[03:50] <tfheen> thanks
[03:50] <tfheen> care to do ubuntu and edubuntu ones too?
[03:50] <Riddell> tfheen: will do
[03:50] <tfheen> thanks.
[03:50] <ogra> Riddell: thanks
[04:04] <sivang> pygi: pong
[04:05] <maswan> tfheen: you gyus going to want a beta iso push soon:ish? I'm [VAC] :ing, so I won't be online after the conference sessions end
[04:06] <tfheen> maswan: yes, I'm writing the release announcement now.
[04:06] <tfheen> I guess I should publish and push to you guys first.
[04:06] <maswan> tfheen: ah, ok. let me know when I should hit the mirror sync
[04:13] <Kamion> sfllaw: what sort of verbosity do you mean?
[04:14] <Kamion> sfllaw: in-target just fiddles about with a bunch of environment variables, fds, and other misc. setup stuff, and then runs a subsidiary command in /target; the stdout and stderr of that command are logged in their entirely
[04:14] <Kamion> entirety
[04:15] <azeem> anybody know about the "Headphone jack sense" option (or similar) in gnome-volume-control's Switches panel?
[04:15] <azeem> it was enabled on my supervisor's X40, which resulted in no sound (neither speakers nor headphones) at all
[04:16] <azeem> on dapper
[04:16] <tfheen> maswan: apparently, we trigger you?
[04:16] <mjg59> azeem: It's not enabled by default
[04:16] <tfheen> maswan: note that this is releases.u.c, not cdimage.u.c
[04:17] <azeem> mjg59: ok, so maybe his sound was muted somewhere, he pushed some buttons and then didn't get anywhere
[04:17] <tfheen> Gloubiboulga: how is xubuntu, release-wise?
[04:17] <Hobbsee> azeem: i've had that problem too.  with breezy, i think
[04:17] <elmo> tfheen: yeah, we don't trigger anyone for cdimage
[04:17] <mjg59> azeem: The Thinkpad mixers are wired up differently to most - the headphone sense stuff is done in hardware outside the sound chip
[04:17] <elmo> tfheen: and maswan is one of the few people who has a full cdimage (and thus DVD) mirror
[04:17] <azeem> mjg59: though he claims he never heard any sound at all (not even the login jingle)
[04:17] <mjg59> azeem: His system was probably muted when he first installed
[04:17] <azeem> well, problem solved, but with some luck I guess
[04:18] <azeem> yeah
[04:18] <azeem> he upgraded from hoary and breezy
[04:18] <maswan> tfheen: ah, ok. releases you trigger, cdimage is cron:ed (and I usually manually trigger that when you don't want to wait until 09:00 CET)
[04:18] <mjg59> The fact that we have this "break me" button is irritating, but hard to get right
[04:18] <ogra> meh, is LP down ? 
[04:18] <tfheen> maswan: can you set up an at job to trigger cdimage at 2100 CEST?  That should leave us plenty of time.
[04:19] <maswan> tfheen: sure, I can do that
[04:19] <Nafallo> maswan: ooh. does that mean you have se.cdimage.ubuntu.com now? :-)
[04:19] <tfheen> maswan: excellent, thanks.
[04:20] <maswan> tfheen: now we sync at 09,21
[04:20] <tfheen> maswan: thanks a bunch
[04:20] <maswan> Nafallo: well, it's not a _full_ mirror, just the "release" directories. but that's the reason ftp.acc.umu.se is often listed in release anncouncements for knot-Ns and betas etc
[04:21] <Nafallo> ah, oki :-).
[04:25] <jdong> Kamion: more recent versions of xmoto no longer backport; wants newer dpkg-dev
[04:25] <Kamion> jdong: ok; could you reject that bug then?
[04:26] <Kamion> jdong: since the rest of it should be done
[04:26] <jdong> Kamion: sure thing
[04:28] <Kamion> ta
[04:28] <jdong> so how's the beta release going?
[04:28] <Kamion> nearly there
[04:28] <jdong> cool
[04:28] <Kamion> I've not been much involved, Tollef has been heroic this time
[04:30] <jdong> well, fixing that nasty NTFS ubiquity bug was a huge contribution in my books :)
[04:30] <Kamion> yeah, sorry about that, I should have noticed that bug ages ago
[04:30] <Kamion> I believe it was present in dapper, in fact
[04:30] <Kamion> if there's another dapper point release, I'll take the fix
[04:30] <jdong> yeah, hobbsee was telling me that last night... she claims it's a fix for bug 1 :)
[04:30] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 1 in ubuntu-meta "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/1
[04:31] <Kamion> it wasn't actually NTFS-specific at all, AFAIK
[04:31] <azeem> 5
[04:31] <azeem> uh.
[04:31] <thom> 6!
[04:32] <ogra> tfheen: just for your pleasure, TestingCurrent for edubuntu is complete now ... i even retested the i386 install to carch possible regressions ...
[04:33] <Kamion> I feel like lamont
[04:33] <sivang> Kamion: heh
[04:33] <ogra> Kamion: wearing glasses now ?
[04:33] <ogra> or a fireman outfit ?
[04:34] <thom> Kamion: as long as you're not toting a large gun it's fine
[04:34] <ogra> thom: well, depends if his laughing changed as well ;)
[04:34] <tfheen> ubuntu-6.10-beta-alternate-amd64.iso
[04:35] <tfheen> if that don't look good, I wouldn't know
[04:35] <ogra> just dont call them like that for edubuntu :P
[04:35] <ogra> we still have -install-
[04:35] <tfheen> publish-release won't let me, so that's fine
[04:36] <ogra> do you exclude ppc-live and amd64-install from teh released ones ? 
[04:36] <ogra> or do i need to warn users ?
[04:37] <tfheen> I could, sure
[04:37] <ogra> that would be nice :)
[04:38] <tfheen> shame I don't take bribes or I could get rich doing this job. :-P
[04:38] <ogra> well, ask for a beer in california, i'll surelay pay you one :)
[04:38] <jdong> lol
[04:38] <tfheen> if they have something which isn't like having sex in a canoe, sure.
[04:39] <ogra> heh
[04:39] <ogra> i had some nice ones in detroit
[04:50] <tfheen> ogra: happy with /srv/cdimage.ubuntu.com/www/simple/edubuntu now?
[04:51] <ogra> ergh ... i have no ssh id on this machine ...
[04:52] <ogra> so i cant log in to lithium ...
[04:52] <ogra> give me 10 mins
[04:52] <tfheen> you seem to be in getent passwd..
[04:52] <ogra> but i have no password on any DC machines
[04:53] <tfheen> oh, in that respect.  Sure
[04:53] <ogra> i'll just need to reboot teh amd64 ... takes a moment ...
[04:53] <tfheen> http://rafb.net/paste/results/ugG1EB68.html
[04:54] <ogra> yep, looks right
[04:54] <sfllaw> rodarvus: How does Edgy detect monitor resolutions?
[04:54] <sfllaw> rodarvus: This is regarding bug 49115.
[04:54] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 49115 in xorg-server "Max resolution not detected properly for IBM G78" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/49115
[04:54] <ogra> sfllaw: dccprobe
[04:54] <sfllaw> ogra: Thanks.
[04:55] <mjg59> ogra: Not entirely
[04:55] <mjg59> sfllaw: xresprobe
[04:55] <ogra> well, which calls dccprobe internally, no ?
[04:55] <tfheen> ogra: sometimes.
[04:55] <sfllaw> mjg59: Found that package.
[04:56] <mjg59> ogra: Depends on the hardware
[04:56] <ogra> ah, i thought you made it multiarch in dapper
[04:56] <mjg59> ogra: No, I mean ddcprobe does nothing useful on laptops
[04:56] <ogra> hmm, it does for me here ...
[04:56] <sfllaw> It must depend on the laptop's monitor hardware.
[04:56] <sfllaw> You know, whether it supports DDC.
[04:56] <mjg59> ogra: Almost no laptops implement ddc. You have to query the graphics hardware.
[04:57] <mdz> morning
[04:57] <mjg59> Which is what xresprobe does
[04:57] <Nafallo> morning mdeslaur 
[04:57] <ogra> mjg59: on my amd64 i just tested it ... 
[04:57] <sfllaw> mdz: Top of the morn.
[04:57] <mdz> how are we doing?
[04:57] <ogra> mjg59: worked perfectly
[04:57] <Nafallo> ehrm... s/mdeslaur/mdz/
[04:57] <Hobbsee> hi mdz 
[04:58] <mjg59> ogra: Your laptop may be some weird freaky exception, but in general laptops do not do ddc for the internal panel
[04:58] <ogra> it even recognizes teh difference between internal (ldc) and external (crt) modes
[04:58] <tfheen> hi mdz.
[04:58] <jdong> so does it look like 0928.2 will become beta?
[04:58] <ogra> mjg59: i tested it on another amd64 lappie for tfheen when he hacked on it in dapper and it worked there as well
[04:58] <ogra> probably it improved ? 
[04:58] <tfheen> mdz: I've started running publish-release now.
[04:59] <mjg59> ogra: Whereas on mine, it just gives a set of modes the video hardware can support - there's no edid block
[04:59] <mjg59> ogra: Dude. No. Most laptops do not provide any useful ddc content for the internal panel.
[04:59] <mdz> tfheen: great. do we have an announcement draft?
[04:59] <seb128> Keybuk: I've uploaded slab to edgy yesterday if you fancy accepting some new crack from NEW ;) (the package comes from Debian so it should be fine)
[05:00] <ogra> hmm
[05:00] <dholbach> seb128: don't forget the telepathy packages ;)
[05:00] <seb128> dholbach: I've not uploaded one of those to NEW yet :p
[05:00] <Nafallo> dholbach: does that include farsight? :-)
[05:01] <dholbach> Nafallo: yes
[05:01] <dholbach> Nafallo: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Telepathy/Modules
[05:01] <Nafallo> yay :-)
[05:01] <Nafallo> oh, everything is ready? :-)
[05:01] <Kamion> I'm working on NEW
[05:01] <Nafallo> ah, not sharp and wilde :-)
[05:01] <pygi> Kamion: ok, I guess you'll kick libburn if it's fine now then? :)
[05:01] <rodarvus> sfllaw, as mjg59 mentioned, xresprobe is the main responsible
[05:01] <rodarvus> for resolution detection
[05:01] <dholbach> Nafallo: wilde was too hard to do - if you fancy java stuff - give it a try
[05:02] <mdz> Kamion: if you're doing archive stuff, please sync cpio per 59228
[05:02] <dholbach> Nafallo: and -sharp is too broken
[05:02] <Kamion> pygi: I guess so, but I haven't got there yet
[05:02] <pygi> Kamion: ok, no worries
[05:02] <Kamion> mdz: I thought I should wait until after beta for that one
[05:02] <Nafallo> hehe, will not start with java now. I
[05:02] <Kamion> I did all the non-main syncs
[05:02] <Kamion> well, all the correct ones
[05:02] <Nafallo> I'll happily dodge is as long as possible :-P
[05:02] <lfittl> Kamion: I added another bunch of non-main syncs some hours ago, sry ;)
[05:03] <Nafallo> I'm not main
[05:03] <Kamion> lfittl: no worries
[05:03] <Nafallo> damn enter key! doesn't sit there on the other keyboard...
[05:04] <mdz> Kamion: ah, right, syncs wouldn't stop in unapproved, would they
[05:04] <Kamion> indeed
[05:04] <Kamion> they sail through
[05:04] <mdz> Kamion: that one should be first on the list when the time comes though
[05:04] <Kamion> yep, it will be
[05:09] <tfheen> mdz: http://err.no/tmp/beta.txt
[05:10] <sabdfl> what's the kde equivalent to gksu?
[05:10] <Riddell> sabdfl: kdesu
[05:10] <sabdfl> and update-manager?
[05:11] <joejaxx> Kamion: may i pm you?
[05:11] <\sh> adept
[05:11] <Riddell> sabdfl: adept_updater
[05:11] <tfheen> EVERYBODY: please help fill in the beta release announcement http://err.no/tmp/beta.txt
[05:11] <sabdfl> Riddell: is there an equivalent to update-manager -c -d ?
[05:12] <Seveas> (tfheen: put it in a gobby session for real collaborative editing :))
[05:12] <Riddell> sabdfl: what does that do?
[05:12] <seb128> tfheen: maybe a "known issues" would be useful?
[05:12] <tfheen> Seveas: My head feels like it's going to blow up any minute, so I'd prefer not having to fight gobby today.
[05:12] <carlos> doko_: http://people.ubuntu.com/~carlos/language-packs/ooo-edgy-2006-09-28.tar.bz2
[05:12] <sivang> hey sabdfl 
[05:12] <ogra> tfheen, sabdfl,  i wonder if we should annonce that we ship an ltsp5 prerelease ;)
[05:12] <pygi> tfheen: shouldn't we put "New Init System - Upstart" or something? :)
[05:12] <\sh> Riddell: -c check dist-upgrades , -d devel-releases
[05:13] <carlos> doko_: I checked it with md5sum
[05:13] <crispin__> hmm, ubuntu thong on bbc news ... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/5388182.stm
[05:13] <mdz> tfheen,EVERYBODY: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyBetaAnnouncement
[05:13] <mdz> tfheen: do we have release notes from knot 3 to be the basis for the beta release notes?
[05:13] <doko_> carlos: thanks, will prepare the package
[05:13] <mdz> tfheen: or better, something newer from the marketing team?
[05:13] <Kamion> joejaxx: it always helps to say what it's about
[05:13] <tfheen> mdz: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyEft/Beta
[05:14] <sabdfl> Riddell: the upgrade assistant, and includes pre-release upgrades
[05:14] <sabdfl> so, dapper -> edgy offered
[05:14] <carlos> Riddell: is there any chance to get https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kde-i18n/+bug/60049 fixed?
[05:14] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 60049 in kdebluetooth "Import of translations for KDE's desktop-* failed" [Undecided,Confirmed]  
[05:14] <tfheen> ogra: please add ltsp 5 to the list.
[05:14] <mdz> tfheen: great
[05:14] <sabdfl> ogra: has jammcq made an official announcement of ltsp5?
[05:14] <joejaxx> Kamion: livecd-alternative install hybrid cd
[05:15] <sabdfl> if not, please don't mention it here, that's stealing their thunder
[05:15] <mdz> mvo: what does the -c flag to update-manager do?
[05:15] <ogra> sabdfl: only the wikipage you saw that says that they'll base on our existing code
[05:15] <sabdfl> then i don't think we can claim it
[05:15] <ogra> ok
[05:15] <ogra> was just an idea :)
[05:15] <mvo> tfheen:  shouldn't the announcement  mention https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyEft/Beta?
[05:16] <tfheen> mvo: it should, please change it on the wiki
[05:16] <Riddell> sabdfl: no, you have to edit the repository in Adept Manager and do a Full Upgrade (i.e. dist-upgrade)
[05:16] <sivang> mdz: there is no mention of the python version, I would include something about moving to pycentral and stuff
[05:16] <mvo> mdz: it means "check for upgrades". we decided back in dapper that it shouldn't offer dapper->edgy upgrades by default
[05:16] <Kamion> joejaxx: sure, I guess so
[05:16] <Riddell> carlos: yes, I'll look at that after beta
[05:17] <Riddell> tfheen: are we doing separate announcements?  (my preference)
[05:17] <sivang> mdz: for "under the hood" section, given python is now a big part of what's under it.
[05:17] <\sh> is there any reason, why ca-certficates packages installs the whole world of ssl certs into /etc/ssl/certs and updates them, to make ldap clients (e.g. ldap-pam etc.) very slow for user lookup etc. Thing is, the ldap clientlb looks up every cert for authentication with the ldap server
[05:17] <mvo> tfheen: thanks, done
[05:18] <sabdfl> Riddell: so there is no smart update, which gets rid of deprecated packages etc?
[05:18] <carlos> Riddell: thanks
[05:18] <Kamion> sivang: python-central isn't a user-focused change; it's there to make maintaining the system easier for us
[05:18] <mdz> mvo: I see, I'll clarify in the announcement
[05:19] <mvo> mdz: thanks
[05:19] <sivang> Kamion: okay.
[05:19] <Riddell> sabdfl: sadly no, a broken embedded console in pykde has been the main blocker for porting the tools from ubuntu but upstream told me it was fixed last week so I want it to be done in edgy+1
[05:20] <sabdfl> Riddell: ok :-/
[05:20] <mvo> Riddell: oh? its fixed now? that is good news!
[05:20] <tfheen> mdz: my head is utterly exploding (second day of flu-ish sickness), so I'm going to get a bit of rest.  Colin knows what I've done wrt publishing and is fixing the .htaccess and HEADER.html files.
[05:20] <Riddell> mvo: well he sent me an e-mail asking me to check it, which I'll do after beta
[05:20] <tfheen> mdz: if there's anything urgent, I have my phone, so just call or SMS me.
[05:21] <mvo> Riddell: sure :) feel free to CC/forward me
[05:21] <mdz> tfheen: ok, thanks much
[05:21] <Nafallo> tfheen: take care mate
[05:23] <joejaxx> sabdfl: it is nice to meet you
[05:23] <mdz> Kamion: is there a bug open about this mono issue mentioned in the release notes?
[05:24] <ogra> could someone look over the formulation for the ltsp part, i know my english grammar sucks today
[05:25] <seb128> mdz: bug #62756
[05:25] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62756 in squashfs "mono confused by the desktopCD" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62756
[05:25] <mdz> thanks
[05:25] <Kamion> sorry, seb beat me to it
[05:26] <seb128> mdz: I think Tollef said that was a squashfs issue, feel free to reassign if that's not the correct package
[05:27] <joejaxx> well bbl all
[05:28] <mdz> seb128: just wanted a bug ref for the release notes
[05:28] <seb128> ok
[05:28] <mdz> sabdfl: thoughts about mentioning known issues in the announcement vs. only linking to the release notes?
[05:28] <ogra> sabdfl: see pm :D
[05:30] <mdz> seb128: looks like either unionfs or casper; I've cleared the package field for now
[05:30] <seb128> mdz: ok, thank you
[05:30] <doko_> dholbach: time for OOo hicontrast icons?
[05:31] <sabdfl> mdz: very serious known issues in announcement, anything else in the release notes i'd say
[05:31] <dholbach> doko_: righto
[05:32] <dholbach> heno: did you ever have a look at the locolor icons that are shipped with openoffice? /usr/share/icons/locolor? which of the themes would they fit to?
[05:32] <mdz> sabdfl: if they were very serious, we wouldn't release with them ;-)
[05:32] <dholbach> doko_: might make sense to split them out into a different package
[05:32] <mdz> sabdfl: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyEft/Beta#head-5468d6dc677b5eca2e68d93411f74c6135c9de28
[05:32] <doko_> dholbach: maybe
[05:33] <infinity> mdz: If we're past the point of no return and pretty much published, shall I thaw edgy again, and clear unapproved?
[05:33] <dholbach> doko_: we wouldn't want gnome-accessibility-themes to pull in openoffice.org-common :-)
[05:33] <mdz> infinity: kamion is at the helm
[05:33] <mdz> Kamion: was that pre-publishing or publishing-publishing?
[05:33] <infinity> Kamion: Ditto. :)
[05:34] <Kamion> mdz: the latter
[05:34] <mdz> elmo: ping
[05:34] <ogra> mdz: i have jammcq's approval for calling our ltsp ltsp5-prerelease ... how do i formulate that best ? suggestions ?
[05:34] <Kamion> tfheen decided to just blat it straight through ;-)
[05:35] <Kamion> we haven't put the DVDs and such anywhere yet
[05:35] <Kamion> what am I doing with Xubuntu?
[05:35] <mdz> Kamion: have you or tfheen been in touch with elmo?
[05:35] <sabdfl> mdz: looks really good! who put that together?
[05:35] <mdz> sabdfl: marketing team, I believe
[05:36] <Kamion> mdz: tfheen talked with him earlier since elmo wanted to know if he could steal a machine back from emergency buildd duties
[05:36] <heno> dholbach: not having seen it in action, I would think they would fit with High Contrast and possibly High Contrast Inverse
[05:36] <Kamion> so he's aware that beta is nowish
[05:36] <slomo_> mdz: wasn't LPI affected by the mono problem too?
[05:37] <heno> dholbach: how can I select them so I can test them with the themes?
[05:37] <dholbach> heno, doko: ok, maybe it's best to split it out with an added index.theme file, then try it with different themes
[05:37] <dholbach> heno: we're not able to put it into action yet :-)
[05:37] <crimsun> Kamion: janimo, Gloubiboulga are testing atm
[05:37] <dholbach> heno: I'll ping you again at that time, sorry - I thought you had a peek at /usr/share/icons/locolor/ already :)
[05:38] <Kamion> crimsun: ok, thanks, let me know as soon as there's an answer
[05:38] <Kamion> if you could
[05:38] <crimsun> Gloubiboulga: ^^
[05:38] <Hobbsee> sabdfl: mdz: @ who did that page - marketing or doc team, i suspect
[05:38] <heno> dholbach: I'm looking at the icons now. I guess I can imagine what they look like on the OOo widgets :)
[05:38] <Gloubiboulga> hi Kamion, hi crimsun
[05:39] <Gloubiboulga> Kamion, alternate image failed for me (bug 62770)
[05:39] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62770 in debian-installer "debootstrap: cannot execute mount (Xubuntu daily 20060928)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62770
[05:40] <Gloubiboulga> I've re-burnt the image, and am off for an other test right now...
[05:40] <dholbach> doko: seems they are not so many
[05:40] <dholbach> doko: 62? is that about right?
[05:40] <Kamion> Gloubiboulga: !
[05:41] <Kamion> Gloubiboulga: definitely smacks of a bad CD
[05:41] <Gloubiboulga> Kamion, I hope so :)
[05:41] <mdz> slomo_: LPI and mono -> dunno
[05:42] <ogra> Gloubiboulga, note that amd64 ltsp is broken due to a missing transitional kernel package on the CD 
[05:42] <ogra> will hit you too
[05:42] <Gloubiboulga> ogra, ok
[05:42] <seb128> slomo_: bug #60071
[05:42] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 60071 in launchpad-integration "Gets confused when using --translate --pid $pid on the live cd" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/60071
[05:42] <slomo_> seb128: thanks
[05:42] <seb128> slomo_: np
[05:44] <dholbach> Kamion: thanks a lot for the  green  spots on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Telepathy/Modules :-)
[05:44] <Kamion> np
[05:51] <mdz> lifeless: say, what happened to your conflict checker?  did your work in progress get handed off to anyone?
[05:52] <lfittl> Kamion: any idea why nvidia-cg-toolkit got removed from Ubuntu?
[05:54] <Kamion> lfittl: I can't find any record of it ever having been there
[05:55] <elmo> can I claim lock on lithium:~cdimage/bin/sync-mirrors ?
[05:55] <Kamion> elmo: yes
[05:56] <lfittl> Kamion: huh, interesting, sry for bothering you then
[05:56] <Kamion> hmm, we never rebuilt kubuntu and edubuntu dvds
[05:58] <ogra> well, according to the daily report there are a bunch of uninstallables on the DVDs 
[05:58] <Kamion> haven't cared about that for the beta
[05:58] <mdz> elmo: some of the releases mirrors have the files, but don't honor our header or .htaccess
[05:59] <mdz> elmo: can we make that a requirement for new mirrors, so it looks consistent?
[05:59] <mdz> elmo: and are we concerned about bandwidth enough to list them anyway, even though they're ugly?
[05:59] <elmo> mdz: err, we could, but it could cost us mirrors
[06:00] <elmo> mdz: I've really no way of predicting how much bandwidth we'll end up using, but if you want to drop the ugly ones, I'm sure it won't hurt us too much
[06:01] <mdz> elmo: as long as the first one listed for each region looks right, I'll keep it
[06:02] <mdz> we should probably be more strict for final
[06:02] <mdz> beta users are expected to know more or less what they're doing, but a lot of folks would be lost with a directory listing
[06:02] <doko_> Riddell: ping
[06:03] <mdz> ouch, the australian mirror has nothing
[06:03] <Riddell> hi doko_ 
[06:03] <elmo> mdz: the trigger hung, I've just fixed that, and the remaining ones should be syncing now
[06:03] <mdz> elmo: oh, I guess I should wait before trimming the list then?
[06:04] <mdz> elmo: can you give me a shout when they're as good as they're likely to get for now?
[06:04] <elmo> mdz: yes pleasse and  will do
[06:04] <doko_> Riddell: please could you run a strace -f -e trace=file oowriter 2>&1 | grep 'images.*zip'   and tell me which zip file is accessed in KDE?
[06:07] <Riddell> doko_: /home/jr/.openoffice.org2/user/config/images_crystal.zip
[06:07] <Riddell> and /usr/lib/openoffice/share/config/images_crystal.zip
[06:07] <sfllaw> mvo_: I'm attempting to reproduce bug 62689...
[06:08] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62689 in Ubuntu "Hangs at 2% of "Select and install software"" [Undecided,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62689
[06:08] <sfllaw> mvo_: Is there any particular thing I should do to get you a good logfile?
[06:08] <doko_> Riddell: thanks
[06:10] <mvo_> hello sfllaw!
[06:11] <mvo_> sfllaw: if you can reproduce it I would like to know about the ps ax stuff that is going on. I had a similar issue were it appeared to be hanging but it turned out that it was just apt-extracttemplate runing
[06:12] <sfllaw> Is there an strace udeb somewhere?
[06:13] <sfllaw> mvo_: Locked up.
[06:13] <Kamion> sfllaw: you can udpkg -i strace.deb
[06:13] <sfllaw> On 20060928 alternate amd64.
[06:13] <Kamion> (not in general, but it works in that case)
[06:14] <sfllaw> Kamion: Oh.  You mean the _normal_ package.
[06:15] <mvo_> sfllaw: oh, hard lock up? or can you still switch consoles?
[06:15] <Kamion> sfllaw: yeah, it's simple enough that you can just slam it into the installer environment without adverse consequences
[06:19] <sfllaw> mvo_: I can switch consoles.
[06:22] <Kamion> seb128: slab accepted
[06:22] <seb128> Kamion: great, thank you!
[06:22] <seb128> Kamion: will make some users happy ;)
[06:26] <jdong> out of pure curiousity, why on earth do we have reiser4progs in the default system?
[06:27] <Kamion> jdong: we don't any more
[06:27] <sjoerd> pitti: pling
[06:27] <pitti> sjoerd: hey
[06:27] <pitti> sjoerd: (busy with talking to three other people, but go ahead :) )
[06:28] <Kamion> elmo: would you mind eyeballing this quickly? it actually looks ok - there's just a patent termination clause I'd like to check
[06:28] <jdong> Kamion: hmm, you're right. Now why doesn't autoremove flag it? :D
[06:28] <sjoerd> pitti: i was wondering, does the current pmount encrypted device mount magic ensure in some way that only the one that unlocked the device can actually mount it ?
[06:28] <Kamion> jdong: autoremove may not work well for packages that used to be in minimal and aren't any more
[06:28] <elmo> Kamion: sure?
[06:28] <Kamion> due to the way minimal is installed
[06:28] <jdong> hmm
[06:28] <Kamion> elmo: drescher:/tmp/cjwatson/queue/ironpython-1.0/License.html
[06:29] <jdong> ooh, ironpython :)
[06:30] <elmo> Kamion: where's this aimed at?  universe or multiverse?
[06:30] <pitti> sjoerd: hm, not right now, I think, good point; I think there's a race condition between two simultaneious pmounts, but I have to check
[06:31] <sjoerd> pitti: i'm looking at moving over to gnome-mount and stuff.. but at least hal doesn't do that yet so..
[06:31] <Kamion> elmo: don't know yet
[06:31] <Kamion> elmo: I note that the licence claims to apply to use of the software (not merely distribution)
[06:32] <elmo> Kamion: I don't think that's a problem per se
[06:32] <elmo> Kamion: and I think this kind of patent termination is fine, it's the weakest form, and there are plenty of existing examples of stronger ones in main
[06:32] <Kamion> yeah, I think it's a licence bug in that it goes beyond copyright, but it doesn't seem to impose anything obnoxious on userss
[06:32] <Kamion> users
[06:33] <Kamion> it does leave me wondering what patents apply to ironpython
[06:33] <elmo> yeah :(
[06:34] <Kamion> and the package could be considered a derivative work, not the original, so per the licence wouldn't acquire patent rights
[06:34] <jdong> oh, it's not like it's from microsoft or anything </sarcasm>
[06:34] <sfllaw> mvo_: Sorry, computer died.
[06:35] <sfllaw> It looks like dpkg-preconfigure --apt is stuck on wait(-1)
[06:35] <sfllaw> Is there anything I can poke at specifically?
[06:36] <Tonio_> hum, is that a launchpad bug ? http://tonio.homelinux.org/tmp/capture13.png
[06:36] <Kamion> elmo: so having thought about it I can see why Keybuk was scared and left it in NEW. OTOH I don't want to leave it there forever
[06:36] <Tonio_> 84% translated and no untranslated strings ?
[06:38] <Tonio_> hum, sorry #launchpad is the place for this
[06:41] <pepsiman> Tonio_: try the "needs review" filter
[06:42] <Tonio_> pepsiman: yeah seen that too, but that should be indicated somehow. that's a bit confusing, since something that needs review is already tranlated :) should appear as 100% then...
[06:43] <mvo> sfllaw: hm, not right now. I haven't seen something like this yet, but if you could add your findings to the bugreport that would be cool. I will have to leave soonish for some sports ./
[06:44] <sfllaw> mvo: Is there some set -x I can do somewhere?
[06:44] <sfllaw> It looks like there's a bunch of shell here.
[06:44] <sfllaw> Or Perl.
[06:45] <Kamion> sfllaw: /var/lib/dpkg/info/pkgsel.postinst and /target/usr/bin/tasksel would probably be places to look
[06:46] <sfllaw> Kamion: Yes, those are the scripts that are running.
[06:46] <sfllaw> I will poke at them.
[06:46] <mvo> sfllaw: is apt runing at all at this point?
[06:48] <sfllaw> mvo: aptitude is.
[06:48] <sfllaw> It's STOPped.
[06:50] <mjg59> http://www.valleywag.com/tech/linux/moments-in-um-bbc-news-snaps-an-ubuntu-thong-203935.php
[06:50] <mjg59> Excellent
[06:51] <Gloubiboulga> Kamion, same issue with an other CD
[06:51] <Kamion> I can't understand why this would only affect Xubuntu
[06:51] <Gloubiboulga> and the iso md5sum is correct
[06:51] <Kamion> have you tried in a different drive?
[06:52] <jdong> whoa, beta dvd's?
[06:52] <Gloubiboulga> Kamion, nop, I have only 1 drive
[06:52] <Kamion> you might want to try cleaning the lens ...
[06:52] <Gloubiboulga> jdong, no, aternate xubuntu image
[06:53] <jdong> Gloubiboulga: no, I was just noticing how releases/edgy/beta is full of DVD ISO's
[06:53] <jdong> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/edgy/beta/
[06:53] <Gloubiboulga> jdong, oops, sorry 
[06:53] <Kamion> they're kind of sub-beta quality in that they've not had much testing, but we're throwing them out along with the beta
[06:54] <jdong> Kamion: oh, ok, cool
[06:57] <pips1> mjg59: :-D
[06:57] <mjg59> Kamion: Thanks for NEWing
[06:59] <jdong> Kamion: I couldn't help but notice the PPC dvd is 1/3 the size of the other DVD's?
[07:01] <Kamion> jdong: interesting point
[07:02] <Kamion> I can't say I know what's up there
[07:04] <Kamion> I think I'll purge it
[07:04] <Kamion> the build from the previous day was fine
[07:04] <doko_> Kamion: found anothet 15MB to save on the CD
[07:04] <doko_> another even
[07:04] <Kamion> doko_: cool, where?
[07:05] <doko_> OOo :-)
[07:05] <Kamion> bonus
[07:06] <HiddenWolf> jdong: got a link to the torrent? I can sync 10mbit.
[07:06] <doko_> so now I'm at about 23MB, for edgy+1 we should check the duplicate files and move huge upstream changelogs into -dev packages
[07:06] <HiddenWolf> jdong: seed, that is.
[07:06] <Kamion> doko_: if that's in your next OOo upload, that will be fantastic
[07:06] <Kamion> thanks for finding that
[07:07] <Nafallo> jdong, HiddenWolf: amd64-desktop? :-)
[07:07] <doko_> Kamion: I'll split it out in extra packages; if I overlooked something, then we can just add dependencies on these extra packages
[07:07] <HiddenWolf> Nafallo: is that needed most?
[07:08] <Nafallo> HiddenWolf: that's where I look for peers ATM ;-)
[07:08] <HiddenWolf> Nafallo: sorry, I've got an i386 rsynced. :)
[07:08] <Nafallo> heh
[07:09] <Spads> jdong: Ng and I are sitting on ubuntu-6.10-beta-alternate-i386.iso and see each other but no seeds
[07:09] <jdong> HiddenWolf: http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/
[07:09] <jdong> HiddenWolf: the 6.10 ones are towards the bottom
[07:10] <jdong> Spads: I'm sitting on the livecd, no other seeds/peers
[07:10] <Spads> ahhh
[07:10] <jdong> Spads: ah, two leechers now :)
[07:11] <HiddenWolf> There, seeding i386-desktop
[07:11] <jdong> :)
[07:11] <Nafallo> jdong: I'm one of them ;-)
[07:11] <jdong> this should be baptism by fire for my newly patched ktorrent :)
[07:12] <jdong> 83.227.x.x of sweden is slurping from me right now :)
[07:12] <Nafallo> haha
[07:12] <Nafallo> me :-)
[07:12] <jdong> hehe
[07:12] <LaserJock> hmm, can you seed torrents without actually downloading the whole thing first?
[07:12] <HiddenWolf> jdong: heh, Last knot I managed to upload 60g in a weekend
[07:12] <Nafallo> LaserJock: you seed the parts you have while you download :-)
[07:13] <jdong> LaserJock: the beta's apparently the most recent daily-live build, which I leeched last night via HTTP
[07:13] <LaserJock> hmm, what if I already have the .iso? will it seed that ok?
[07:13] <jdong> LaserJock: yeah, it'll seed fine
[07:13] <jdong> LaserJock: just coax your torrent client into accepting it
[07:13] <LaserJock> I was thinking I could rsync a knot3 .iso real quick and seed it
[07:14] <LaserJock> I don't really use torrent as it is incredibly slow for me, but I'm sure the uni won't mind me contributing to the open source world ;-)
[07:14] <HiddenWolf> LaserJock: just rename your iso to the torrent-name. IE ubuntu-6.10-desktop/alternate-$arch.iso
[07:15] <Nafallo> and beta in the middle somewhere ^ :-)
[07:15] <HiddenWolf> Nafallo: ssht. ;)
[07:24] <rodarvus> mjg59, ping
[07:24] <mjg59> rodarvus: Hi
[07:24] <rodarvus> I noticed you uploaded a package called 'xserver-xorg-video-intel' a few minutes ago - is this package based on the modesetting branch of -intel git repo?
[07:25] <mjg59> rodarvus: Yup
[07:25] <rodarvus> oh, nice
[07:25] <mjg59> It's rather flaky right now
[07:26] <rodarvus> I considered doing this some time ago but it was not top priority so I just ended postponing this package
[07:27] <rodarvus> yup, I didn't had much success with this package either, but it was helpful in at least one case (for a guy with a LFP panel which was not working with the standard driver)
[07:27] <rodarvus> s/package/branch/
[07:28] <sladen> excellent.  I thought we were too late for that in edgy
[07:29] <rodarvus> as we would say in Brazil, mjg59 scored this goal at the 49 minutes of the second half
[07:30] <rodarvus> universe beta freeze starts either at 23:59 UTC, or earlier, at dholbach's discretion >:-)
[07:31] <dholbach> rodarvus: thanks for upsetting everybody when I refuse to go to bed at 1:59 local time ;-)
[07:33] <rodarvus> dholbach, so you're actually sleeping at night? tsc tsc.
[07:33] <LaserJock> haha
[07:33] <dholbach> :-)
[07:33] <dholbach> i'll quit working late today, so you have some hours to play still
[07:34] <dholbach> -> break
[07:35] <Nafallo> dholbach: good :-)
[07:35] <LaserJock> anybody know if releases.u.c has rsync?
[07:35] <LaserJock> server that is
[07:37] <elmo> LaserJock: of course it does
[07:38] <LaserJock> elmo: ok, I wasn't sure if I was just doing the rsync command right or if on cdimages.u.c was supposed to be rsyncable
[07:38] <LaserJock> s/right/wrong/
[07:40] <HiddenWolf> LaserJock: rsync --progress rsync://cdimage.ubuntu.com/cdimage/daily-live/current/beta.iso beta.iso
[07:41] <LaserJock> HiddenWolf: yeah, I just wanted to get it from releases.u.c to make sure I got the right .iso
[07:42] <HiddenWolf> LaserJock: this worked for me for live i386
[07:51] <doko_> iwj: ping
[07:55] <keescook> working on building an edgy chroot, but I'm getting an error about missing linux-kernel-headers.  Is this my fault or the archive's fault?
[07:55] <elmo> kamion/tfheen/riddell/ogra/whoever: cdimage.u.c space usage jumped by 130Gb or so ...
[07:56] <ogra> elmo, i suspect a lot of temporary builds can go ...
[07:56] <ogra> we usually keep only 3 past builds 
[07:56] <geser> does somebody know why the Contents file for edgy doesn't get updated since 07-Jun-2006?
[07:58] <rodarvus> keescook, linux-kernel-headers was replaces by linux-libc-dev some time ago (and should be 'provided' by it)
[07:59] <rodarvus> but its hard to say whos at fault without more details
[07:59] <keescook> I just did a straight debootstrap
[07:59] <keescook> (but I'm on a Dapper system, trying to debootstrap an Edgy...)
[07:59] <ogra> how ? 
[08:00] <ogra> using the edgy debootsrap ? 
[08:00] <ogra> *debootstrap
[08:00] <rodarvus> might be an outdated mirror (linux-libc-dev was uploaded just a few days ago)
[08:00] <keescook> I think so, ah...yes, I see what I did
[08:00] <iwj> doko_: pong
[08:00] <keescook> ogra: yeah, I think I pulled the edgy debootstrap.
[08:00] <keescook> so I need to update it.  cool.
[08:01] <doko_> iwj: if you care about FF, could you have a look at bug 61104? not sure if it's a troll ...
[08:01] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 61104 in gcc-4.1 "Build process of firefox trunk is broken using gcc 4.1.1 with some "undefined reference" related to gcc bug #26905 ?" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61104
[08:04] <iwj> doko_: What a pleasant submitter.
[08:05] <mdz> keescook: sounds like you're using an old debootstrap
[08:05] <keescook> mdz: yeah, though updating it didn't help.  s'okay, it worked in the past, I was just trying to have both and amd64 and i386 edgy.  I'll still amd64 edgy for the moment, as I have i386 edgy running okay
[08:06] <keescook> s/still/skip/
[08:06] <doko_> iwj: yeah, can't pull everything from fc, there must be an option to build without the -fvisibility options?
[08:09] <iwj> doko_: We're not using some GCC prerelease, are we ?
[08:09] <doko_> iwj: we do, but from the 4.1 branch; 4.2 isn't released yet.
[08:11] <iwj> It seems to me that the submitter should get a workaround put into the firefox tree.  I assume that this bug is present in stock gcc 4.1 ?
[08:13] <_ion> I posted a patch. https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/preload/+bug/62827
[08:13] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62827 in preload "parses /proc/N/maps incorrectly, renders whole program nonfunctional" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
[08:14] <doko_> iwj: it's not in 4.1.0, but in 4.1.1
[08:15] <iwj> doko_: That's lovely then, isn't it.  Will there be a 4.1.2 in time for edgy release ?  I assume not.
[08:16] <iwj> Seems like just one of those things, really.
[08:16] <doko_> iwj: no, but it won't be fixed in 4.1.2 at all, as jason explains
[08:16] <ogra> hey, its edgy ... its supposed to have the latest cracks ... 
[08:16] <ogra> or was it crack ?
[08:19] <iwj> doko_: Err, I must have missed that.  As Jason explains where ?  (Jason who?)
[08:19] <doko_> http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=26905
[08:19] <Ubugtu> gcc.gnu.org bug 26905 in c++ "default-visibility class symbol improperly resolved as hidden-visibility" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]  
[08:20] <iwj> Oh, yes, comment #6.
[08:20] <doko_> heh, Ubugtu became more intelligent?
[08:20] <iwj> Well, I think we should do nothing about this and tell the submitter `sorry'.
[08:21] <iwj> If they want to go and use Fedora, fine.
[08:21] <iwj> There seems from these transcripts to be some attempts to workaround this by mozilla people but not successfully.  Clearly their configure script is buggy.
[08:22] <iwj> I think that's where the effort should go.  Having every distro randomly backport patches isn't the answer.
[08:23] <iwj> doko_: Did you want anything more concrete out of me ?
[08:24] <doko_> iwj: just knowing, if there's an option to build without the visibility stuff
[08:24] <iwj> I don't know, I'm afraid.  I think that's what the configure script is probably trying to do.
[08:33] <pitti> mdz: do you think bug 62542 is annoying enough to be fixed for edgy final? or rather edgy+1? it could be considered feature work and it would break the UI
[08:33] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62542 in apport "Apport should not do its expensive bits without user confirmation" [Low,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62542
[08:33] <pitti> mdz: I'm leaning towards edgy+1, but I'd like to collect some opinions
[08:35] <mdz> pitti: I think that if it notifies the user that it's doing the work, it will be ok
[08:36] <pitti> mdz: ok, so you want that update-notifier icon for edgy?
[08:38] <mdz> pitti: also, I noticed ionice in schedutils which might be worth a look
[08:38] <mdz> pitti: yes, I think we should do something for edgy.  the system gets very sluggish when it's running and the user can't tell why
[08:39] <_ion> I agree.
[08:40] <Treenaks> Stuff like firefox might look like it's frozen too... with white pieces on it from where you've moved windows
[08:40] <pitti> mdz: so we can either move the sluggish parts into the frontend, or change u-n to display an icon/notification/whatever while apport is grinding
[08:40] <Treenaks> that might look weird..
[08:41] <pitti> mdz: we cannot do anything while the kernel dumps core, apport isn't yet called at that time (with the current kernel interface, this will get better in edgy+1)
[08:41] <pitti> mdz: but the gdb and dpkg parts are the major culprits, and they could be done in the frontend, too
[08:42] <mdz> pitti: firefox dumping core takes a long time
[08:42] <pitti> (it's just a matter of moving collect_static_information() from apport to apport-gtk
[08:42] <pitti> mdz: I agre
[08:42] <pitti> e
[08:42] <mdz> but if that's before apport is called, we can't do much for edgy
[08:42] <pitti> mdz: but as I said, ATM the kernel dumps core and then calls apport
[08:42] <pitti> right
[08:43] <mdz> gdb and dpkg in the frontend would address bug 62542 as well
[08:43] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62542 in apport "Apport should not do its expensive bits without user confirmation" [Low,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62542
[08:43] <pitti> In Wiesbaden, BenC and I developed a better approach, but it's fairly different and not really appropriate to change at that time
[08:43] <mdz> since you could easily only do them if the user wants to make a full report
[08:43] <pitti> mdz: right, therefore my question whether you want to see it in edgy
[08:44] <jdong> is gutenprint safe to backport to dapper?
[08:44] <pitti> mdz: I can work on it today and tomorrow if desired (it's not intrusive, I just want to do a proper test suite check for it)
[08:44] <mdz> pitti: I'm less concerned about that than about the visibility to the user, but it sounds like they could both be solved at once, so that's fine with me
[08:44] <pitti> ok, great
[08:45] <pitti> ... milestone, rather
[08:45] <BenC> pitti: So you want me to implement my end?
[08:45] <pitti> BenC: I'd rather not for edgy
[08:45] <pitti> BenC: it took enough time to get the current patch right :)
[08:45] <pitti> BenC: I'll just move stuff within apport
[08:46] <BenC> ok
[08:51] <lucas> Riddell: any news on the ruby issue ?
[08:52] <Riddell> lucas: on ppc?  it should all work now
[08:53] <lucas> Riddell: was it uploaded ?!
[08:53] <tkamppeter> Is there an Ubuntu development team meeting today?
[08:53] <trappist> I'm subscribed to that bug but I don't remember seeing that update
[08:53] <Riddell> lucas: no, the buildds were changed to have a different linux build on them
[08:53] <lucas> oh, there are inconsistancies in the build logs
[08:54] <lucas> Riddell: could you fix ruby1.9 too then ?
[08:54] <seb128> tkamppeter: no, cf mail from Matt on the list
[08:55] <lucas> "Checking for sin() in C library m... no" interesting build failure: http://librarian.launchpad.net/4537345/buildlog_ubuntu-edgy-i386.xmms2_0.2DrFeelgood-6_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[08:55] <lucas> (builds fine locally)
[08:56] <Keybuk> lucas: building on ubuntu christian edition?
[08:56] <tkamppeter> seb128: Which list, to which lists should I subscribe in general as Ubuntu developer? I have only communicated by IRC and personal e-mail up to now.
[08:57] <lucas> Keybuk: non :)
[08:57] <lucas> no
[08:58] <lucas> why would I do that ?
[08:58] <lucas> ahh
[08:58] <lucas> :-)
[08:58] <Keybuk> lucas: no sin in the C library
[08:58] <Nafallo> lol
[08:58] <lucas> I'll have to ask infinity ;)
[08:58] <seb128> tkamppeter: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-announce
[08:59] <seb128> tkamppeter: it has been on the ubuntu-devel list too
[08:59] <Seveas> Keybuk, LOL
[09:00] <lucas> Keybuk: you should blog it
[09:01] <seb128> tkamppeter: ubuntu-devel-announce has useful informations usually, discussions happen on ubuntu-devel (a good part of the discussions being user noise though)
[09:02] <pitti> mdz: argh, that would mean that we would not get gdb and packaging information for system process crashes
[09:03] <jdong> tkamppeter: do you keep track of gutenprint?
[09:03] <pitti> mdz: however, it's still a good compromise for edgy then
[09:04] <mdz> pitti: hmm
[09:04] <mdz> pitti: if they know enough to file a crash dump without apport-gtk, they can probably choose the right package too ;-)
[09:04] <pitti> hm, and we need to determine whether the program was packaged nevertheless
[09:04] <mdz> but losing gdb is unfortunate
[09:05] <pitti> mdz: it's not that unfortunate
[09:05] <mdz> pitti: is gdb really that slow? can we continue to do gdb in the backend and dpkg in the frontend?
[09:05] <tkamppeter> jdong: Yes, I am subscribed to the developer list of Gutenprint, but I have no Epson inkjet printer handy for tests.
[09:05] <pitti> mdz: we can easily generate our own stacktrace with the core dump
[09:05] <jdong> tkamppeter: I've got a backport request here for edgy gutenprint to dapper...
[09:05] <pitti> mdz: in fact, that's what apport-retrace does
[09:05] <jdong> tkamppeter: I know nothing about gutenprint, so I thought I'd get your expert opinion on whether or not that's a good idea
[09:05] <pitti> mdz: but yes, I agree for the package
[09:06] <pitti> mdz: I can also wrap this function into a 10-line CLI tool to add gdb and packaging information
[09:06] <mdz> pitti: oh, we would still get a stack trace, just not decoded?
[09:06] <mdz> if so, that would be ok
[09:07] <pitti> mdz: *if* the user sends us a core, yes
[09:07] <pitti> mdz: but for non-user processes, there is no apport-gtk offering to remove it anyway :)
[09:07] <tkamppeter> jdong: It is probably a simple rebuild under Dapper, I have also always rebuilt all printing packages which I made on Mandriva 2007 also on 2006 because of Mandriva's Corporate server, and 2006 is 1 year old.
[09:07] <Ubugtu> Mandriva bug 2007 in Installation "Switching to alternate screens during install crashes X" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]  http://qa.mandriva.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2007
[09:07] <pitti> mdz: since non-user apport report submission is pretty much an advanced task for now, I think that's acceptable
[09:07] <jdong> tkamppeter: it builds in a dapper builder, but I have no idea how to test it :)
[09:07] <tkamppeter> Gutenprint has rebuilt there straight forward, only in CUPS 1.2.x I had to de-activate D-BUS.
[09:08] <jdong> tkamppeter: I'll post the rebuilt debs back on the launchpad ticked and have the OP test it
[09:08] <tkamppeter> Testing is easy: Install it, including the cupsys-driver-gutenprint package.
[09:09] <slomo_> hm is there any reason why uploads still need manual accepting?
[09:09] <tkamppeter> Hook an Epson inkjet (best solution) or at least some HP inkjet, older Canon inkjet, or an arbitrary PCL 3/4/5/5e laser.
[09:10] <jdong> tkamppeter: I've got two printers; not enough data to determine if there are any potential regressions from dapper's version to edgy's
[09:11] <tkamppeter> Jdong, should we wait for some week then to see how Edgy bug reports on the final Gutenprint develop? I think if a printer prints correctly under Edgy it should print correctly under Dapper with the same driver.
[09:12] <jdong> tkamppeter: right; I'm considering keeping that bug report open for a bit longer
[09:12] <tkamppeter> jdong, which model are your two printers?
[09:12] <jdong> HP deskjet 722C, HP laserjet 5P
[09:13] <tkamppeter> jdong: DJ 722C tests only pnm2ppa and not Gutenprint (does it print under Edgy?), LJ 5P is a test candidate for Gutenprint, but not for the color-correctness.
[09:14] <tkamppeter> Anyone here who has a recent photo inkjet from Epson and a Dapper box?
[09:24] <HiddenWolf> Can someone poke a fridge admin and put Edgy on?
[09:26] <Seveas> HiddenWolf, #ubuntu-fridge
[09:26] <HiddenWolf> doh
[09:43] <zyga> hello
[09:43] <pradeep> hi zyga 
[09:47] <jdong> BenC: unusual_dev nudge? ;-)
[09:48] <BenC> jdong: ok, thanks
[09:48] <jdong> BenC: also, a while back I asked/filed about tifm21xx for Dapper... have you had a chance to see if there's any hope for that?
[09:51] <tfheen> mdz: I got the list of mirrors on that announce from James
[09:53] <BenC> jdong: not yet...probably be after release before I give dapper any love
[09:53] <jdong> BenC: sounds good. edgy all the way!
[10:00] <ajmitch> morning
[10:01] <appelza> I know this isnt a support channel, but my question could possibly be a bug, as I have had no help with it in over a week of googling and #ubuntu chats
[10:02] <appelza> My amd dual core opteron has ubuntu server 64bit installed, and only 2gb of its 4gb gets detected..its a tyan thunder board, and the smp k8 64bit kernel
[10:03] <ijuz> appelza: is the memory working with other kernels?
[10:03] <appelza> ive tried the smp and the normal 64bit-server kernel
[10:03] <zyga> python2.4-doc is broken
[10:03] <appelza> neither detect the full 4gb
[10:05] <ijuz> appelza: can memtest86 see the memory? you may also try a new kernel
[10:05] <appelza> which other kernels should I try? I havent done the memtest check
[10:06] <jdong> appelza: try some 32-bit ubuntu's, try some other distro livecd's.... try to see if it's ubuntu-specific or amd64-specific or linux-specfic
[10:07] <appelza> Ok, makes sense.  Thanks
[10:08] <mdz> tfheen: right, that was the list of triggered mirrors.  they didn't all get the release in time though
[10:09] <icecrash> hi
[10:12] <tfheen> mdz: ok
[10:12] <mdz> tfheen: how are you feeling?
[10:12] <tfheen> mdz: I took a painkiller so I no longer feel the need to chop my head off, but I have a bit of a fever and such.
[10:13] <tfheen> mdz: I suspect I won't be very effective tomorrow, though.  We'll see.
[10:14] <mdz> tfheen: the only thing I need from you soonish is for you to review those process docs I emailed about; it's important to do that while it's fresh in your mind
[10:15] <slomo_> mdz: will uploads be auto-accepted later again?
[10:16] <geser> does somebody know why the Contents file for edgy doesn't get updated since 07-Jun-2006?
[10:17] <tfheen> mdz: sure, I'll get to that tomorrow
[10:20] <AlinuxSOS> Hello, mjg59 Ubuntu Edgy Beta is realised but https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/ttf-bpg-georgian-fonts/+bug/55966 still remains a big problem for us (Georgian users). Sorry if I continue disturbing you...but I hope that you solve this problem before final realise. Thank You!
[10:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 55966 in ttf-bpg-georgian-fonts "ttf-bpg-georgian-fonts.conf problem." [Undecided,Confirmed]  
[10:32] <AlinuxSOS> Hello, unifont package has a very crappy Georgian glyphs  https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/unifont/+bug/62849 Here is a bug + solution...maybe somone package it for me so I can test unifont package with georgian fonts ? Thank You.
[10:32] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62849 in unifont "Georgian (ka) letters are very crappy!" [Undecided,Fix committed]  
[10:34] <lifeless> mdz: its still there in hiatus, I didn't have anyone specific to hand it off to, nor have I done more work on it.
[10:34] <lifeless> mdz: we can hand it off to someone at UDS MV perhaps
[10:34] <AlinuxSOS> people is there somone who maintains unifont pacakge ?
[10:35] <AlinuxSOS> mdz, sorry for disturbing...maybe you can help me ?
[10:35] <LaserJock> AlinuxSOS: I'm guessing that would be the Maintainer
[10:36] <AlinuxSOS> LaserJock, who is unifont mantainer ?
[10:36] <doko_> Keybuk, Kamion: wsdl4j and axis ping
[10:36] <LaserJock> AlinuxSOS: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/unifont/
[10:37] <AlinuxSOS> LaserJock, so what do you suggest me ?
[10:37] <AlinuxSOS> I've a solution for unifont, how can I commit it ?
[10:37] <LaserJock> AlinuxSOS: is it a bug fix?
[10:38] <icecrash> short question on configuration settings for apache2 suexec
[10:38] <AlinuxSOS> yes, practically it's new redesigned glyphs for Georgian (ka) range.
[10:38] <LaserJock> AlinuxSOS: then attach a patch
[10:38] <LaserJock> to the bug report
[10:39] <AlinuxSOS> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/unifont/+bug/62849 maybe it's enough ?
[10:39] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62849 in unifont "Georgian (ka) letters are very crappy!" [Undecided,Fix committed]  
[10:39] <icecrash> the compiled defaults in ubuntu version don't let reach you any cgi in apache's default cgi-folder /usr/lib/cgi-bin
[10:39] <AlinuxSOS> but I don't know who the maintainer is...so I don't know to whom assign it.
[10:39] <LaserJock> AlinuxSOS: don't assign it
[10:40] <AlinuxSOS> ok
[10:40] <bluefoxicy> ...
[10:40] <bluefoxicy> most awesome idea ever.
[10:40] <bluefoxicy> OK how does this sound, hypothetically
[10:40] <icecrash> in debian bug #312252
[10:40] <bluefoxicy> 1:  LiveCD is booted
[10:40] <Ubugtu> Debian bug 312252 in thus "SuExec FHS compilance" [Normal,Open]  http://bugs.debian.org/312252
[10:40] <mdz> AlinuxSOS: I'm sure we talked about this around the same time near the Dapper release, but you need to raise these issues earlier in the deveolpment cycle
[10:40] <mdz> AlinuxSOS: don't wait for beta before testing Georgian
[10:40] <bluefoxicy> 2:  LiveFS is mounted (compressed squashfs for Live environment)
[10:41] <LaserJock> AlinuxSOS: on the left side of that bug report the Creator and Maintainer of the package
[10:41] <mdz> AlinuxSOS: it makes it very difficult for us
[10:41] <bluefoxicy> 3:  tmpfs is mounted
[10:41] <LaserJock> AlinuxSOS: if you can attach a patch or debdiff that would also be helpful, I would guess
[10:41] <bluefoxicy> 4:  LayerFS gets mounted with zlib encryption overtop the tmpfs; files written to the RAM-backed temporary file system will be compressed
[10:41] <AlinuxSOS> mdz, it another issue, it'f for unifont, not ttf-bpg-georgian-fonts.
[10:41] <icecrash> Ubugtu: only temp solution AP_DOC_ROOT=/ which makes security settings obsolete?
[10:41] <mdz> AlinuxSOS: bug 62849
[10:41] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62849 in unifont "Georgian (ka) letters are very crappy!" [Undecided,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62849
[10:42] <bluefoxicy> 5:  Continue as normal, unionFS compressed tmpfs overtop LiveFS and pivoting root as needed
[10:42] <mdz> AlinuxSOS: unifont hasn't changed since Dapper
[10:42] <mdz> AlinuxSOS: neither has ttf-bpg-georgian-fonts
[10:42] <AlinuxSOS> mdz, it's unifont. but 55966 Bug is not solved too.
[10:43] <icecrash> ups bot
[10:43] <AlinuxSOS> mdz, Edgy has for the first time Georgian range for georgian fonts.
[10:44] <AlinuxSOS> so they are crappy and not proportional. So I provided a new, redesigned fonts.
[10:46] <AlinuxSOS> 24 September I've mailed Matej Vela, about this... who told me that is better if I mail to: debian-user@lists.debian.org (solution included, I mean georgian glyps hex code), but still no answer or something similar.
[10:47] <mdz> I don't know who Matej Vela is or why debian-user would be a good place to discuss it
[10:48] <AlinuxSOS> mdz, mjg59 promised me a solution for ttf-bpg-georgian-fonts too, but there is no changes...Ubuntu Dapper or Edgy still contain an old 0.2 verison of pacakge.
[10:48] <mdz> AlinuxSOS: I will make a deal with you
[10:48] <AlinuxSOS> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/ttf-bpg-georgian-fonts/+bug/55966
[10:48] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 55966 in ttf-bpg-georgian-fonts "ttf-bpg-georgian-fonts.conf problem." [Undecided,Confirmed]  
[10:48] <mdz> AlinuxSOS: I will help you to work on these problems
[10:48] <mjg59> Fontconfig needs work to fix this
[10:48] <mdz> AlinuxSOS: if you will commit to doing this before feature freeze next time
[10:49] <AlinuxSOS> Arne Goetje, provided a solution, but it's not enough...
[10:49] <mdz> AlinuxSOS: do we have a deal?
[10:49] <mjg59> AlinuxSOS: Arne's config stuff is broken - it doesn't validate
[10:49] <AlinuxSOS> mdz, you are developer and boss here..Matthew too is boss for me..So I must deal with you guys...
[10:50] <mdz> AlinuxSOS: I don't think we're understanding each other
[10:50] <AlinuxSOS> I'm really work a lot for creat Ubuntu's Georgian community...but as I'm not a programmer..I need some help...
[10:50] <mdz> AlinuxSOS: Ubuntu uses a time-based release schedule, which means that certain work needs to be done on time
[10:50] <mdz> AlinuxSOS: you can read more about this here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeBasedReleases
[10:51] <mdz> AlinuxSOS: we are grateful for your help and would like to work together, but it is essential to consider this
[10:51] <AlinuxSOS> mdz, I understand you, I'm sorry that all the time I disturbed Matthew too...
[10:51] <mjg59> mdz: Strictly, this isn't a feature. We've got broken config parsing.
[10:53] <AlinuxSOS> guys, the situation for Dapper or Edgy for Georgian users is critical... people installs http://packages.debian.org/unstable/x11/ttf-bpg-georgian-fonts 0.3 verison of pacakge...that is provided for Debian and not Ubuntu.
[10:53] <mdz> mjg59: I agree
[10:53] <mdz> mjg59: but testing can't wait until after beta
[10:54] <mjg59> mdz: I discussed this with Keith Packard over the weekend. The correct behaviour is now implemented in fontconfig upstream
[10:54] <mjg59> I'm looking at the extent of the code change now
[10:55] <AlinuxSOS> Arne Gotje said to me that it's very difficuld to have something universal...so fontconfig can't be universal configuration...
[10:55] <mdz> AlinuxSOS: that's why we implemented per-locale settings for fontconfig
[10:56] <AlinuxSOS> I've searched a lot about this issue...I'm not really last minute this time..
[10:56] <mjg59> mdz: They don't really work
[10:56] <mdz> that would be unfortunate
[10:57] <mjg59> mdz: At lesat, as far as I can tell. Where are they implemented? They're not mentioned in the fontconfig changelog
[10:58] <mdz> mjg59: language-selector, /etc/fonts/language-selector.conf, all that jazz
[11:00] <AlinuxSOS> I remmeber Dapper realise verison 0.2 of bpg font...that package was without fonts.config file...and I was really last minute, but now I've worked a lot(Font design, testing, best fontconfig searching,testing again..., bugging Matthew all the time!,searching other similar fonts with similar problem, finding Arnje Gotje...)that's my maximum, I've done a lot... and no results :/ I'm simply sad about it..I'm not angry or something simi
[11:00] <AlinuxSOS> lar...I'm only a little bit sad.
[11:01] <mdz> AlinuxSOS: it sounds like mjg59 has already been working on this.  what would you like for me to do?
[11:01] <mjg59> mdz: Ah, I see. This is all a bit of a hack.
[11:01] <mdz> mjg59: yes, it is.  but it's *our* hack!
[11:01] <mjg59> mdz: Fontconfig supports doing this based on user locale
[11:02] <AlinuxSOS> mdz, nothing just complaining... I'm really adore your job and the way of doing...but you should understand me...I'm simple mortal man :)
[11:02] <AlinuxSOS> now I'm working with debian-translation :) + GNOME :D
[11:02] <mdz> mjg59: not quite, that's why we have this hack
[11:03] <mjg59> mdz: Upstream does. It was broken in the version we have.
[11:03] <mdz> mjg59: I asked Keith about it at the time and he said that was not what it did, and not what it should do
[11:03] <AlinuxSOS> I'm really multifuncitonal...and I should care about all :)
[11:03] <mjg59> mdz: Ah. He appears to have changed his mind.
[11:03] <mjg59> How irritating :)
[11:04] <mjg59> Ok, let me see what I can do with this...
[11:04] <AlinuxSOS> mjg59, if you need a tester for Georgian, I'm ready to help you !(If you need my help of course)
[11:05] <mjg59> mdz: I still don't really understand this. language-selector.conf is empty.
[11:07] <joejaxx> anyone know what the usbstick path is ?
[11:07] <joejaxx> /media/usbstick?
[11:07] <mjg59> joejaxx: /media/something
[11:07] <mjg59> It'll depend on whether there's a label or not
[11:07] <jdong> joejaxx: is that really a #ubuntu-devel question?
[11:07] <joejaxx> mjg59: hmm
[11:07] <joejaxx> jdong: oh sorry
[11:07] <joejaxx> i though i was in *-offtopic
[11:07] <joejaxx> sorry to disturb
[11:07] <jdong> joejaxx: that's ok. I thought you were working your way towards a bug report or something :-)
[11:08] <joejaxx> jdong: :)
[11:08] <AlinuxSOS> mdz, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/unifont/+bug/62849 are we still in time ?
[11:08] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62849 in unifont "Georgian (ka) letters are very crappy!" [Undecided,Fix committed]  
[11:08] <mdz> AlinuxSOS: what do you want from me?
[11:09] <AlinuxSOS> mdz, accepting a patch for Georgian range in hex for unifont.
[11:09] <mdz> AlinuxSOS: that patch says that you received some glyphs from someone else and need to test them.
[11:09] <mdz> AlinuxSOS: they need to be tested *before* being accepted, not after
[11:10] <AlinuxSOS> mdz, my problem is that I need someone who could package them for me...afterwards I test..If there is errors I correct them and send a patch again.
[11:11] <AlinuxSOS> but seems that unifont is orphan package :/
[11:11] <mdz> AlinuxSOS: why do you believe that your bug has to do with unifont?
[11:12] <mdz> AlinuxSOS: we already have a font for georgian, why not use that instead of unifont?
[11:12] <AlinuxSOS> mdz, because it contains bitmap fonts, that we need for debian-installer
[11:12] <AlinuxSOS> for debian-installer ?
[11:12] <mdz> AlinuxSOS: you already marked your bug fixed
[11:12] <crimsun> mdz: Hi, does the debdiff linked from bug 62855 look ok for dapper-updates? Jeff and I spoke earlier in -motu about it.
[11:12] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62855 in alsa-lib "Stereo line-in capture broken in alsa-lib 1.0.10 for "simple mixer" cards." [High,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62855
[11:13] <mdz> crimsun: please use the guidelines and process at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
[11:13] <crimsun> mdz: ok, thanks
[11:13] <mjg59> mdz: Do we have docs for the langpack/fontconfig integration anywhere?
[11:13] <mdz> mjg59: I doubt it; mvo would be the authority on the language-selector bits
[11:14] <AlinuxSOS> we already have a font for georgian, why not use that instead of unifont? Which one ?You mean bpg font ?
[11:15] <mjg59> Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh
[11:15] <mjg59> I see
[11:17] <mjg59> Right, I can do this
[11:21] <AlinuxSOS> mdz, http://img353.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scr3la3.png  I mean this font. And if it's not unifont...so which package provides that horrible glyphs ? (It's not bpg fonts 100% sure)
[11:22] <mdz> AlinuxSOS: which ones are horrible?  I can't tell
[11:23] <AlinuxSOS> mdz, :)just trust me, I know how georgian font must be.
[11:24] <AlinuxSOS>  letter "e" is too long :)
[11:24] <mdz> AlinuxSOS: that is a screenshot of gfxboot
[11:24] <AlinuxSOS> 1.  
[11:24] <mdz> AlinuxSOS: gfxboot gets its fonts from the theme
[11:24] <mdz> AlinuxSOS: the theme gets them from X
[11:24] <AlinuxSOS> mdz, yes... so I need to know which font is used for gfxboot ?
[11:25] <mdz> (usually)
[11:26] <AlinuxSOS> it's bitmap font, unifont contains bitmap fonts. BPG fonts are .ttf type...so gfxboot dosen't use them.
[11:26] <mjg59> mdz: Ok, this actually ought to be trivial to fix (at least, to the extent that it's fixed in Chinese, for instance)
[11:27] <mjg59> mdz: Needs one file adding to language-selector-common
[11:27] <mdz> AlinuxSOS: the gfxboot theme, when it is built, looks for an X font which matches certain characteristics
[11:27] <mdz> AlinuxSOS: and converts it into the format it needs
[11:27] <AlinuxSOS> so I don't really know origin of this font.
[11:27] <mdz>         getx11font -v -l 18 -p 2,4 \
[11:27] <mdz>         -c ISO-8859-15 -c ISO-8859-2 -c koi8-r \
[11:27] <mdz>         `$(KEYMAPCHARS) keytables.inc` \
[11:27] <mdz>         -t tmp.txt \
[11:27] <mdz>         -t install/log -t boot/log \
[11:27] <mdz>         -t langlist -t langnames.inc \
[11:27] <mdz>         -f -gnu-unifont-medium-r-normal--16-160-75-75-c-80-iso10646-1 \
[11:27] <mdz>         --fsize 16,5 \
[11:27] <mdz> like so
[11:27] <AlinuxSOS> unifont-medum? 
[11:27] <AlinuxSOS> gnu-unifont!
[11:28] <mdz> AlinuxSOS: !
[11:28] <AlinuxSOS> What because I said It
 AlinuxSOS: why do you believe that your bug has to do with unifont?
[11:28] <mdz> AlinuxSOS: will you answer the question now?
[11:29] <mdz> AlinuxSOS: someone told you to look at unifont, and it wasn't me
[11:29] <AlinuxSOS> mdz, which question sorry me ?
[11:29] <AlinuxSOS> mdz, yes It was Kamion or CollinWatson :) but I'm not sure...
[11:29] <AlinuxSOS> not you of course :)
[11:29] <givre> Kamion, others : nobody to accept ntfs-3g ? it's still in new
[11:30] <mdz> givre: tomorrow is archive day
[11:30] <mdz> givre: Kamion's day, if I'm not mistaken
[11:30] <mdz> givre: he does it on Fridays, Keybuk on Tuesdays
[11:30] <givre> mdz: ok, thanks for the info
[11:31] <AlinuxSOS> who packages unifont for ubuntu ?
[11:31] <mdz> AlinuxSOS: no one. we use the unifont package from Debian
[11:31] <mdz> AlinuxSOS: which, as you've learned, is unmaintained
[11:32] <AlinuxSOS> mdz, and how can I submit my glyps range for Georgian ?
[11:32] <AlinuxSOS> test & realise.
[11:33] <mdz> AlinuxSOS: I think you mean the word "release" when you say "realise"
[11:33] <AlinuxSOS> I don't know howto build a .deb :( Or howto repackage unifont with new fonts ?
[11:33] <mdz> AlinuxSOS: there are a couple of things you could do
[11:33] <AlinuxSOS> mdz, ? what things ? :/
[11:33] <mdz> AlinuxSOS: one would be to work with the upstream maintainer of unifont, the other would be to work with a Debian or Ubuntu developer
[11:33] <mdz> AlinuxSOS: you could also learn how to modify and build the package
[11:34] <AlinuxSOS> mdz, is it difficult to buld a unifont package ?
[11:34] <mjg59> AlinuxSOS: If I show you a screenshot, can you tell me whether the right fonts are being used?
[11:34] <mdz> AlinuxSOS: it looks like a pretty simple package
[11:35] <AlinuxSOS> I can collaborate with people...I need only someone who realises testing verison..and afterwards I confirm a final .deb without errors.
[11:35] <AlinuxSOS> mdz, simple :) for you! :D
[11:35] <AlinuxSOS> mjg59, right fonts ?
[11:35] <mjg59> AlinuxSOS: Does http://www.codon.org.uk/~mjg59/tmp/georgian.png look right to you?
[11:35] <AlinuxSOS> What do you mean ? (sorry my English is not perfect)
[11:36] <AlinuxSOS> mjg59, just a moment.
[11:36] <mdz> AlinuxSOS: what is Gia Shervashidze's email address?
[11:36] <AlinuxSOS> mdz, yes great.
[11:36] <mjg59> AlinuxSOS: Was that to me?
[11:36] <mdz> AlinuxSOS: yes great is not a valid email address
[11:36] <mjg59> mdz: Mixed up nicks, I think
[11:36] <AlinuxSOS> mdz, Gia Shervashidze <giasher@telenet.ge>
[11:37] <mjg59> mdz: Ok. Can I add one file to language-selector-common ?
[11:37] <AlinuxSOS> mjg59, which file ? BPG font 0.3 ?
[11:37] <mjg59> It's just a fontconfig fragment that instructs it to use the correct fonts in the ka_GE locale
[11:37] <mjg59> Like the existing zh_CN and so on
[11:38] <AlinuxSOS> http://www.codon.org.uk/~mjg59/tmp/georgian.png For me it's super! 
[11:38] <AlinuxSOS> It's a solution that I so desire...
[11:38] <mdz> AlinuxSOS: so if I gave you a .deb of unifont, you could test it?
[11:38] <AlinuxSOS> mdz, yes of course
[11:39] <mdz> AlinuxSOS: how?  does something other than gfxboot use it?
[11:39] <AlinuxSOS> mdz, in terminal mode, when I doo ctrl + alt + F1 system goes in terminal mode..I've text file with entire alphabet and text.
[11:40] <mjg59> AlinuxSOS: That's not likely to be the same font
[11:40] <mdz> AlinuxSOS: your console uses unifont?
[11:40] <mdz> that seems unlikely since it is an X font
[11:41] <AlinuxSOS> mdz, gnome-terminal uses fixed width font,courier like. but in terminal(non X)it uses that crappy georgian font...that you see on gfxboot
[11:41] <mjg59> mdz: Can you take a look at http://www.codon.org.uk/~mjg59/tmp/language-selector.debdiff ?
[11:41] <mdz> AlinuxSOS: perhaps it uses a font which looks very similar
[11:41] <mjg59> AlinuxSOS: It's likely that they're the same glyphs but from different files
[11:42] <mjg59> The terminal doesn't accept X fonts directly
[11:42] <mdz> AlinuxSOS: I don't see how you can test this unless someone builds a CD for you, which is a lot of work
[11:42] <AlinuxSOS> mdz, no I recorgines them because I've worked a lot with BPG font designer.
[11:43] <AlinuxSOS> mdz I think that I we correct unifont we correct everything..because in terminal mode there is the same font.
[11:43] <mdz> AlinuxSOS: I am highly confident that if I give you a unifont .deb and you install it, your console font will not change.
[11:45] <AlinuxSOS> mdz, I can test it right now...
[11:45] <mdz> AlinuxSOS: if you would like to see who is right: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/temp/unifont_1.0-3ubuntu1_all.deb
[11:45] <AlinuxSOS> I install unifont and restart system.
[11:45] <mdz> I will wait with bated breath
[11:46] <AlinuxSOS> mdz, ;)
[11:46] <mjg59> mdz: That language-selector change should fix the issue for Georgian, though I may need to add a couple of fonts to the ttf-bpg-georgian-fonts package for full effect
[11:46] <mjg59> Either way, I think they're correct - it mimics the config that people have been setting up manually and has no effect on non-Georgian setups
[11:48] <mdz> mjg59: I am not familiar with that stuff to judge at a glance whether it is correct, but it seems perfectly reasonable
[11:49] <mjg59> mdz: The code will only be used if Georgian is selected by language selector
[11:49] <mjg59> So the very worst it could do would be to have no effect, and the likely cause is that Georgian users stop complaining that their fonts look bad :)
[11:50] <mdz> mjg59: I think we have only one georgian user and he is very noisy
[11:50] <mjg59> mdz: No, I've got reports from at least two more
[11:50] <mjg59> Any objection to me uploading that, in any case?
[11:50] <mdz> mjg59: are they any more personable?
[11:51] <mdz> mjg59: if you tested it and it did what you expected, it's ok with me
[11:51] <mjg59> mdz: Ok. Doing so now.
[11:51] <mc44> its harder for people whos first language isnt English :p
[11:52] <mjg59> Right, uploaded
[11:52] <AlinuxOS> mdz, there is still that crappy font :(
[11:52] <mdz> AlinuxOS: !
[11:53] <mjg59> AlinuxOS: As mdz said, it's unlikely that an X font will make any difference on the Linux console
[11:54] <AlinuxOS> you think that it's some BPG's font bitmap deformation ?
[11:54] <mdz> AlinuxOS: no, it is exactly as I said before. they are two  different fonts.
[11:54] <mjg59> mdz: Oh, hm, one problem.
[11:54] <AlinuxOS> it really looks so crappy.
[11:54] <mjg59> mdz: The language-selector.conf link doesn't seem to get regenerated on reconfigure.
[11:55] <mjg59> Argh, fontconfig-voodoo
[11:55] <mjg59> What could possibly go wrong
[11:55] <AlinuxOS> mdz, I should investigate about that differen font...In Dapper there was white cubes instead of letters.
[11:56] <AlinuxOS> I think it somewhere here: /usr/share/fonts/X11/misc
[11:56] <mjg59> AlinuxOS: No
[11:57] <mjg59> AlinuxOS: X fonts are not used for the console
[11:57] <AlinuxOS> and where is console fonts location ?
[11:57] <AlinuxOS> I'll start remove one-per-one before I get white cubes...
[11:58] <AlinuxOS> so maybe I can find that crappy thing...
[11:58] <mdz> AlinuxOS: is your goal to fix the console or to fix the CD boot screen?
[11:58] <mjg59> mdz: I believe that fontconfig-voodoo has behaviour that is less than optimal
[11:59] <mjg59> mdz: In that it won't replace a link to /usr/share/language-selector/fontconfig/none even if there's now a locale-specific entry available
[11:59] <AlinuxOS> mdz, both (because they are the same font). I'l show you debian-installer portion.
[11:59] <mjg59> AlinuxOS: They are *not* the same font
[11:59] <mjg59> AlinuxOS: gfxboot comes from an X font. The console comes from a console font.
[11:59] <AlinuxOS> mjg59, not the same physically...but the same design...
[11:59] <mjg59> AlinuxOS: They may look the same, but that doesn't mean that they're in the same package
[12:00] <mjg59> AlinuxOS: Right. The fact that they're the same design is entirely irrelevent
[12:00] <AlinuxOS> mjg59, exaclty I mean that design is the same..but not package.
[12:00] <mjg59> AlinuxOS: So they're not the same font
[12:01] <mdz> AlinuxOS: I've spent over an hour trying to help you, but you won't listen to me
[12:01] <mdz> AlinuxOS: I'm going to have to get back to my work shortly
[12:01] <mjg59> crimsun: Uh, did you mean to send that to mdz rather than me?
[12:01] <mjg59> mdz: The stuff I've uploaded should make this work for new installs, but not for updates. I'll talk to mvo about the best way to deal with that.
[12:01] <mjg59> It involves Python, so I'm not going to try to fix it myself
[12:02] <mdz> mjg59: would be a good plan to file a bug for him
[12:02] <crimsun> mjg59: er?
[12:02] <mjg59> mdz: Yeah, doing that now
[12:02] <mjg59> crimsun: Oh, erm. Who did you mail your SRU to?
[12:02] <mjg59> Oh, it's from Launchpad
[12:02] <mjg59> Never mind
[12:03] <mdz> mjg59: will the X server reread its font directories to pick up new fonts, or does it need a restart?
[12:03] <AlinuxOS> mdz, http://img181.imageshack.us/my.php?image=debianinstalleryk5.png see here
[12:03] <mjg59> mdz: fontconfig should deal
[12:04] <AlinuxOS> it's the same:  ...letter "" is the same (other letter too) of gfxboot.
[12:04] <mjg59> AlinuxOS: They are *not* the same font
[12:04] <AlinuxOS> mjg59, yes I understand :)
[12:04] <mjg59> AlinuxOS: So showing us that they're both broken doesn't help
[12:05] <AlinuxOS> mjg59, yes they are broken in the same way..they have the same design.
[12:05] <mjg59> AlinuxOS: Yes. We know that. That doesn't help us fix them in any way.
[12:07] <mdz> mjg59: xset fp rehash is what I want, but it doesn't work
[12:07] <mdz> it seems to bail out because some of the font path elements don't exist
[12:07] <mdz> what a piece of junk
[12:07] <mjg59> mdz: xset fp rehash will only work with X core fonts
[12:07] <AlinuxOS> mjg59, so I must find both. Console one and Menu font too...cause both fonts need the same correction.
[12:07] <mjg59> mdz: We don't even get our bitmap fonts from there now, unless you're using a legacy application
[12:07] <mdz> mjg59: like xterm?
[12:07] <mjg59> mdz: Yeah
[12:08] <mdz> mjg59: that's the only way I can see to access this font
[12:08] <mdz> it doesn't use defoma or any of that jazz
[12:08] <dholbach> good night
[12:08] <mjg59> mdz: dpkg-reconfigure -plow fontconfig and enable bitmap fonts
[12:08] <mdz> it just drops it in an X font dir and runs mkfontdir