[02:30] <nixternal> hey...where are the "Marketing Team Goals" listed?
[02:31] <nixternal> whats up johnlittle_mobil!
[02:31] <johnlittle_mobil> Working from the cafe
[02:31] <nixternal> hehe
[02:32] <nixternal> im in class right now...we are going over "Marketing Failures" in todays world
[02:32] <nixternal> we did all the dot com crap last week...
[02:32] <johnlittle_mobil> I do some of that analysis for my clients
[02:32] <johnlittle_mobil> better than working :)
[02:32] <nixternal> right now we are talking about linux
[02:33] <johnlittle_mobil> hah
[02:33] <nixternal> opensource, and how it is a failure, and why it will never be
[02:33] <johnlittle_mobil> You must have raised it. Marketing ppl dont think about linux often
[02:33] <nixternal> we have some lady from the FSB and the LISP crap here
[02:33] <nixternal> this is a lady from the opensource community
[02:33] <johnlittle_mobil> Ah
[02:33] <nixternal> she is with the Free Software Foundation
[02:33] <nixternal> she is way to damn smart for me
[02:34] <nixternal> this is all based in the US of course..as she just asked, you have 10 seconds to name me a commercial on Linux or OSS that you have seen
[02:35] <johnlittle_mobil> the IBM series
[02:35] <nixternal> IBM is the only ones I remember with Red Hat
[02:35] <nixternal> hehe
[02:35] <nixternal> ya
[02:35] <johnlittle_mobil> very well known
[02:35] <nixternal> and over with as well
[02:36] <johnlittle_mobil> Hmm well millions of installs with no centralized marketing effort isn't so much of a failure imo
[02:36] <nixternal> but it isn't main stream
[02:36] <nixternal> and those installs aren't here in the US
[02:36] <nixternal> she is hitting all of that..there is no accurate number of installations
[02:36] <johnlittle_mobil> Sure there are millions here..mainly server installs but I dont think the desktop is the only measure of success
[02:37] <johnlittle_mobil> oh and devices..bazillions
[02:38] <nixternal> ya, server installs, but still that only accounts for about 30% of the servers in the US, which they say more than 20% is Red Hat..that is interesting
[02:38] <johnlittle_mobil> I just think the premise is flawed
[02:39] <nixternal> woohoo she is talking about Ubuntu
[02:39] <nixternal> these people in htis class are like, wth is she talking about
[02:39] <johnlittle_mobil> If she believes the ubuntu project is failure because she hasnt seen a superbowl ad...well youre in the wrong class
[02:39] <nixternal> she is talking highly of us now ;)
[02:39] <johnlittle_mobil> companies would kill for ubuntus wom
[02:39] <nixternal> not bad
[02:40] <nixternal> she is a fan of it and it is her desktop, she says RMS isn't fond, but truthfully i could care less about that idiot
[02:41] <johnlittle_mobil> Theres a need for an RMS..but just one please :)
[02:41] <nixternal> ya, RMS Titanic
[02:41] <johnlittle_mobil> lol
[02:41] <nixternal> RMS is an idiot
[02:42] <nixternal> his antics in the UN kill any opportunities the open source world has
[02:42] <nixternal> he screwed up big time..when the army rebuilt their network, they looked at Linux, and the community sent RMS to do the sale...well low and behold, the army uses microsoft and apple now
[02:43] <nixternal> he was good 10 years ago..the but the direction is different then "take over the world" agenda
[02:43] <nixternal> the but the, i have no idea
[02:43] <johnlittle_mobil> He isn't the guy that will take linux places. His ideas are important. But some like mark, more pragmatic, is going to get the jobdone
[02:43] <nixternal> his direction rather ;)
[02:43] <johnlittle_mobil> someone
[02:44] <nixternal> good to know that novell is hurting really bad right now...the bad thing is they could possibly take suse with them in the damage they are doing
[02:45] <johnlittle_mobil> Yeah its unfortunate. I like suse. I'm not sure if we can grab that market either. I'm afraid Redhat will absorb it
[02:45] <nixternal> ya, she is talking about that now...i knew it was a matter of time, and the reason i stopped working with the suse project years ago
[02:46] <nixternal> it isn't the first time novell messed up..and truthfully this isn't the worst, but it is giving bud publicity to the linux community right now, because it is the only "Linux" thing you see/hear on tv
[02:46] <nixternal> a 3.5mil dollar default ain't squat, but this time Microsoft isn't bailing them out
[02:46] <nixternal> 350mil rather ;)
[02:47] <johnlittle_mobil> I still think the US will only change significantly once we are a microsot island in a linux world..thats happening
[02:47] <johnlittle_mobil> we will continue to lag
[02:47] <johnlittle_mobil> novell might be delisted too
[02:47] <nixternal> there really needs to be an OSS Marketing Agency
[02:48] <nixternal> Novell got delisted i thought, or did they just get notified of it?
[02:48] <johnlittle_mobil> that could be done but its a foundation type effort..
[02:48] <johnlittle_mobil> they got notified
[02:48] <nixternal> ahh
[02:48] <johnlittle_mobil> most companies avoid it but its never good.
[02:48] <nixternal> the FSF is the current foundation, but their retoric isn't correct
[02:48] <johnlittle_mobil> Although i bought tons of cray at under 2 bucks when they got the notice...and went to 12 shortly after :)
[02:49] <nixternal> wow, it was a $600m default
[02:49] <nixternal> heh
[02:49] <johnlittle_mobil> Thats tough
[02:49] <nixternal> i did the same with Sun
[02:50] <nixternal> i wish i would have done it with kmart though
[02:50] <johnlittle_mobil> I have been accumulating sun for a while
[02:50] <nixternal> if they would get above 5 i would love it
[02:50] <johnlittle_mobil> they were last week
[02:50] <nixternal> that would triple the price of 10k shares
[02:50] <nixternal> heh
[02:50] <johnlittle_mobil> I like sun longterm
[02:51] <nixternal> i have had them for years
[02:51] <johnlittle_mobil> yeah but its only in the last 2 that they pulled their heads out
[02:51] <nixternal> they are at 5 even right now
[02:51] <johnlittle_mobil> yeah they are bouncing around in the low to mid 5s
[02:52] <nixternal> http://today.reuters.com/news/articleinvesting.aspx?view=PR&symbol=SUNW&storyID=263310+27-Sep-2006+PRN&type=qcna
[02:52] <nixternal> thats cool right there
[02:52] <johnlittle_mobil> any idea how i get my member cloak and stuff?
[02:53] <nixternal> i had to go through lilo
[02:53] <nixternal> talk to seveas
[02:53] <nixternal> but i think that stuff is on hold currently, although im not 100% sure
[02:53] <johnlittle_mobil> elk got hers setup
[02:54] <nixternal> whoa..in the United States, there are 4 Business Plans w/ Marketing Bi-Laws listed for Linux companies
[02:54] <Bassetts> did someone want me?
[02:54] <elkbuntu> johnlittle_mobil, i tried asking.. didnt get any response
[02:54] <nixternal> Red Hat, Novell, Caldera, and VA
[02:54] <johnlittle_mobil> ah thanks elk
[02:54] <johnlittle_mobil> is your radio interview online yet?
[02:54] <elkbuntu> johnlittle_mobil, try asking nalioth if seveas gave te go-ahead for you to get a cloak yet
[02:55] <nixternal> does nalioth have the cloaking powah now?
[02:55] <elkbuntu> he is staff
[02:55] <johnlittle_mobil> Ive been out of lately. I'm int he planning stages of a new marketing company.
[02:57] <johnlittle_mobil> elkbuntu ive been offline a lot. is your podcast up yet?
[02:57] <nixternal> ya, but not all staff has cloak priviledges, especially the "ubuntu" ones..but that could h ave all changed recently
[02:57] <elkbuntu> johnlittle_mobil, dont think so
[02:57] <johnlittle_mobil> elkbuntu You recorded it though right?
[02:58] <elkbuntu> johnlittle_mobil, no
[02:58] <johnlittle_mobil> Oh :)
[03:05] <nixternal> oh
[03:05] <nixternal> elkbuntu: i am trying to get you cloak and they are like, she already has one
[03:05] <nixternal> haha
[03:05] <nixternal> johnlittle_mobil: you don't have one yet right?
[03:05] <elkbuntu> nixternal, lol
[03:05] <nixternal> im a moron
[03:05] <elkbuntu> nixternal, nope, just a confused fool: P
[03:06] <nixternal> no, im retarded for real ;)
[03:07] <elkbuntu> heh
[03:07] <poningru> naah
[03:07] <poningru> so can someone fix all the screenshots?
[03:07] <poningru> they do not have the shadow thing
[03:07] <nixternal> you just grab my butt?
[03:08] <nixternal> haha
[03:08] <poningru> ...
[03:08] <nixternal> a night at the roxberry owns
[03:08] <poningru> ?
[03:08] <poningru> oh
[03:08] <poningru> rofl
[03:08] <nixternal> you seen that movie?
[03:08] <nixternal> haha
[03:08] <poningru> bwhahahaha
[03:08] <nixternal> where he keeps asking the one guy...he is like, im 100 miles away, i could have i grabbed your ass
[03:08] <nixternal> lol
[03:09] <poningru> Burgundavia: dude is that possible?
[03:09] <johnlittle_mobil> nixternal nope
[03:09] <poningru> to have the screenshots fixed?
[03:09] <Burgundavia> elkbuntu did mine
[03:09] <elkbuntu> screenshots for what?
[03:10] <Burgundavia> the Beta page
[03:11] <elkbuntu> i only did the translation shots for you
[03:11] <poningru> well we need to have shadows behind them
[03:11] <nixternal> has there been a lot of Ubuntu changes in the past week?
[03:11] <poningru> the screenshots otherwise are good
[03:11] <poningru> I have no clue how to do it
[03:11] <nixternal> i know for Kubuntu, only differences are some minor artwork
[03:11] <poningru> grr
[03:12] <nixternal> kde-guidance
[03:12] <nixternal> oem-config is broke for all of us though, which stinks, as nobody has yet to document it
[03:12] <elkbuntu> poningru, my email is melissa@meldraweb.com, send em to me and i'll work on them when i can
[03:12] <poningru> elkbuntu: can you do them?
[03:12] <poningru> ok
[03:13] <poningru> will links be ok?
[03:14] <elkbuntu> sure, direct to the images. be as explicit as possible as i have woken up unwell :(
[03:14] <poningru> :(
[03:15] <poningru> oh yeah, yep
[03:15] <elkbuntu> dont come too close, you'll get sick too :(
[03:15] <poningru> meh its all good
[03:16] <poningru> woo making up words
[03:16] <elkbuntu> aww
[03:19] <poningru> grr 2.8 evolution doesnt have whats new on their website
[03:22] <nixternal> evolution is horrid...i remember when that first came out years ago..i thought it was going to become awesome...i just started using it with my Edubuntu install
[03:22] <poningru> thunderbird ftw
[03:22] <nixternal> Kontact is by far the best the Linux world has for PIM/Mail/Cal all in one
[03:22] <poningru> :p
[03:23] <nixternal> simian, that was the name of the original setup that evolution was spawned from correct?
[03:23] <nixternal> they had a monkey for a logo if i remember correctly
[03:24] <poningru> Burgundavia: by the time beta is out ff 2.0 rc1 will make it to the repos right?
[03:24] <Burgundavia> no
[03:25] <Burgundavia> but it is coming
[03:25] <poningru> :(
[03:25] <nixternal> beta is out in 24 hours, when is the new ff out?
[03:25] <poningru> nixternal: yesterday
[03:25] <poningru> err as in official
[03:26] <nixternal> ahh
[03:27] <nixternal> ya, beta freeze has been in effect, except for security and high rated bugs
[03:27] <poningru> ah...
[03:28] <poningru> when does it go back down?
[03:29] <poningru> the freeze I mean
[03:33] <poningru> our ff has phishing protection stuff right?
[03:33] <poningru> can someone verify http://en-us.www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/2.0/releasenotes/
[03:34] <poningru> that stuff is in our ff?
[03:39] <nixternal> ll
[03:39] <nixternal> ..
[03:39] <poningru> ll?
[03:39] <nixternal> ok..i meant .. to see if i was still alive
[03:39] <nixternal> ;)
[03:40] <Flannel> poningru: 1.99+2.0b2+dfsg-1ubuntu2 is edgy FF, so, at least beta2, I have no idea what dfsg means, but new upstream version was from -1ubuntu1 then ubuntu2 had a bugfix
[03:40] <Flannel> that was Sept 13, 2006 by the way.  the upstream release, so at the very least you can check to see if RC1 was released by then
[03:41] <Flannel> to rule out that RC1 is in edgy ;)
[03:41] <poningru> right but can you run through the features to see if its all there
[03:41] <poningru> please?
[03:41] <elkbuntu> title of firefox on my edgy machine still says beta2
[03:42] <elkbuntu> as does 'about'
[03:45] <poningru> just need to know if the features are all there though
[03:46] <elkbuntu> not a clue.. all i've noticed is the diff theme/icons and the session management
[03:49] <Flannel> what's the internal version number for the one in edgy?
[03:51] <poningru> Flannel: why?
[03:51] <poningru> Flannel: there is a search right there
[03:51] <poningru> what are you trying to look for?
[03:51] <Flannel> because it's impossible to find ANYTHING youre looking for that hasn't traveled through the PR machine
[03:52] <poningru> not true
[03:52] <Flannel> Ok, give me a REAL changelog
[03:52] <poningru> for that you gotta go to wiki.mozilla.org
[03:52] <Flannel> for RC1
[03:52] <poningru> bugzilla fu
[03:52] <Flannel> bugzilla is convoluted
[03:52] <Flannel> and one of the crappiest things in the world
[03:52] <Flannel> or, maybe just for a project the size of firefox
[03:53] <Flannel> but its stretched well beyond its means
[03:53] <poningru> ok dude dont make me resort to violence again :p
[03:54] <Flannel> no.  It's horrid.  Try finding a bug regarding... well, almost anything.  You need to know EXACTLY what youre looking for, meaning all the correct terms and the time of day has to be right.  It's almost entirely impossible to verify whether you're the first finding a bug
[03:54] <Flannel> reporting, rather, but you knew that
[03:55] <Flannel> and still, I'm waiting for a REAL changelog for RC1, not a sales pitch
[03:55] <poningru> burning edge
[03:56] <poningru> iirc jesse puts out that blog
[03:56] <poningru> http://www.squarefree.com/burningedge/
[03:57] <Flannel> Ah.  So, I rest my case, It's IMPOSSIBLE to successfully find anything on the firefox/mozilla website.
[03:59] <Flannel> and, do you happen to know which trunk build is RC1?
[03:59] <poningru> oh thats current branch
[04:00] <poningru> trunk is all 3.0 work
[04:00] <Flannel> ... we're talking about your RC1 question, why you bringing in random other links? ;)
[04:00] <Flannel> oh right.  mozilla switched trunk and branch.
[04:01] <poningru> yeah
[04:02] <Flannel> so, a real changelog for RC1?
[04:03] <poningru> well... you have to wait 2.0 is released
[04:03] <Flannel> I see.  So, in otherwords, the question you originally posed is unanswerable
[04:04] <poningru> :p
[04:04] <poningru> wait what question?
[04:04] <Flannel> the stuff about 18:34 < poningru> can someone verify http://en-us.www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/2.0/releasenotes/
[04:05] <poningru> Flannel: btw dfsg is the debian free software guideline
[04:05] <poningru> Flannel: just look through that stuff and verify that our ff has each of those features
[04:05] <poningru> I am about to do it...
[04:08] <Flannel> shrug.  I don't have edgy, so I was going to go the changelog, to verify we're using RC1, at the least, we're using B2, which has all those features
[04:08] <poningru> oh.. well that makes sense.. dude you dont have edgy
[04:09] <poningru> I wasnt sure debian/ubuntu kept all the changes... they might have taken something out
[04:11] <nixternal> i haven't even seen rc1 come across revu either
[04:11] <nixternal> it definitely won't be in the first Beta
[04:35] <elkbuntu> poor poningru :(
[06:48] <elkbuntu> poningru, http://meldra.no-ip.info:8080/betapics
[06:48] <poningru> awesome
[06:50] <poningru> looking fine
[08:40] <elkbuntu> poningru, how did you go with the beta page?
[08:42] <poningru> actually studying for an exam
[08:42] <poningru> will start working again
[08:42] <poningru> soonish
[08:42] <poningru> just added gnome 2.16 stuff
[08:42] <poningru> havent done the firefox stuff
[09:48] <poningru> http://developer.mozilla.org/devnews/
[09:48] <poningru> btw
[09:48] <poningru> :p
[09:49] <poningru> Kamping_Kaiser
[09:50] <Kamping_Kaiser> yes, but does it auto-remove flash if detected? ;)
[09:51] <Kamping_Kaiser> oh, new artwork in FF, wonder if thats rc - *checks*
[10:01] <poningru> hmm I wonder
[10:02] <poningru> who do I talk to regarding the default theme in firefox?
[10:02] <Burgundavia> poningru: art team
[10:02] <elkbuntu> i would assume it to be the arts team
[10:02] <poningru> since the icons are released under the trilicense we can mess around with it as much as we want
[10:02] <poningru> hmm
[10:02] <Burgundavia> ubuntu has its own FF theme
[10:02] <poningru> thanks
[10:02] <poningru> right
[10:03] <elkbuntu> 'cause we're cool
[10:03] <poningru> I am gonna whip up a new theme based on the ff2.0 mofo theme
[10:03] <poningru> but with ubuntu colors
[10:04] <poningru> cause I really like some of the icons
[10:09] <Burgundavia> I hate how the GIMP, OO.o and FF insist on using their own themese
[10:09] <Burgundavia> they should be using the system icon set, dammit
[10:11] <jenda> yeppers
[10:12] <jenda> And teh recent trademark incident shows the mofo guys in a very 'Free as in speech' light...
[10:13] <poningru> waah?
[10:14] <elkbuntu> Burgundavia, agreed
[10:15] <Burgundavia> jenda: it was actually the moco people, not the mofo people
[10:15] <jenda> aha... well, that makes it a bit better, I'll admit.
[10:18] <poningru> and mofo > moco
[10:19] <poningru> as in its just a legalese thing
[10:19] <poningru> the people remained the same
[10:19] <poningru> except for the new people
[10:19] <jenda> agreed.
[10:19] <jenda> I'll bbl
[10:20] <poningru> Burgundavia: is it Beta or Beta 1?
[10:20] <Burgundavia> just Beta
[10:21] <poningru> k
[10:31] <elkbuntu> http://meldra.no-ip.info:8080/betapics
[10:31] <poningru> thanks :)
[10:38] <poningru> :(
[10:38] <poningru> I just figured out I have no clue how to attach a file
[10:38] <poningru> err a image
[10:38] <Burgundavia> poningru: drop down menu
[10:38] <poningru> nm
[10:38] <poningru> thanks
[10:38] <poningru> grr /me is a dolt
[10:44] <poningru> Burgundavia, elkbuntu do you guys think we should shrink the evolution screeny a bit/
[10:44] <elkbuntu> it could do with a cropping or a re-shoot
[10:45] <elkbuntu> re-shoot would be great.. i would do it, except you'd have to pay me to load evolution up to do it
[10:45] <poningru> hehe same here
[10:45] <elkbuntu> let alone download mail to it
[10:45] <Kamping_Kaiser> lol
[10:47] <poningru> also for the firefox pics, there are just too many features to showcase
[10:47] <poningru> and plus the theme is being shown down below
[10:56] <elkbuntu> do you have a screeny of firefox  'restore previous session' stuff?
[10:57] <elkbuntu> poningru, --^
[11:00] <poningru> sure yeah
[11:00] <poningru> err... I have to crash mine
[11:00] <poningru> crap
[11:01] <poningru> and its all the wrong color
[11:01] <poningru> hold on this will take a sec
[11:01] <elkbuntu> sec
[11:01] <elkbuntu> ive got it done
[11:01] <poningru> arr?
[11:01] <elkbuntu> poningru, well almost
[11:01] <elkbuntu> just shadowifying it now
[11:01] <poningru> no need for me to change my theme?
[11:01] <elkbuntu> noe
[11:01] <poningru> w00t
[11:02] <elkbuntu> for future reference, open firefox, log out, log in, launch firefox ;)
[11:02] <poningru> sorry just I have like 20 tabs open
[11:02] <poningru> yeah but its the changing of the theme
[11:02] <elkbuntu> hehehe
[11:02] <poningru> and then loading up like 20 tabs takes like an entire min
[11:04] <elkbuntu> yeah lol
[11:05] <elkbuntu> hmmm.. actually, gimme an extra min and i'll do this properly.. and get just the message window
[11:05] <poningru> doh
[11:05] <poningru> I should have done that
[11:05] <poningru> oh nm same amount of work
[11:05] <poningru> no wait I could have just have that called from the console
[11:05] <poningru> doh
[11:20] <elkbuntu> poningru, http://meldra.no-ip.info:8080/betapics/BonEcho_RestoreSession.png
[11:26] <poningru> nice
[11:26] <poningru> hmm you know what frack this I am switching to a 640x480 and am gonna start taking screenies
[11:27] <poningru> we need a bunch of ff screenies
[11:27] <poningru> like the opensearch is something I wanna showoff
[11:29] <poningru> frack we cant use the old ff screeny cause it says knot2 on it
[11:29] <poningru> or maybe shrink it
[11:30] <poningru> hmm i think I will do that
[11:30] <poningru> Burgundavia: when does this have to go out?
[12:01] <poningru> elkbuntu: how does one add the shadow effect to the pics?
[12:01] <poningru> in gimp I mean
[12:04] <elkbuntu> poningru, expand the canvas so there's a reasonable margin around the layer that is the picture. duplicate the picture layer, fill the layer with black before expanding the layer to be the size of the canvas, add gaussain blur filter at 15px, move things aaround and crop off extra white
[12:08] <poningru> elkbuntu: I added the unedited once
[12:08] <elkbuntu> hehe
[12:08] <poningru> ;) ;) nod nod
[01:56] <poningru> Burgundavia: I am done with the beta page
[01:56] <poningru> the grammer seems horrible though
[01:57] <poningru> so need someone to have a look through with fresh eyes
[02:13] <poningru> woo
[02:13] <poningru> studying+adding crap goes hand in hand it seems
[02:15] <poningru> shower time so brb
[05:31] <Bassetts> johnlittle, are you around?