/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2006/09/29/#ubuntu-meeting.txt

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LaifenBonjour  tous :o)07:24
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SeveasLaifen, could you please not do automated on-join messages in here09:38
Laifen?09:38
FujitsuLaifen, every time you join, you send a message to here.09:39
Laifenand ?09:39
Seveaswhich is annoying09:39
Seveasso don't09:39
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LaifenBon aprs midi  tous a++12:16
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stgraber@schedule Zurich05:09
UbugtuSchedule for Europe/Zurich: 29 Sep 18:00: Ubuntu Desktop Effects Team | 03 Oct 19:00: Community Council | 04 Oct 14:00: Edubuntu | 05 Oct 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Oct 22:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 22:00: Edubuntu05:09
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gnomefreak@schedule new_york05:29
UbugtuSchedule for America/New_York: 29 Sep 12:00: Ubuntu Desktop Effects Team | 03 Oct 13:00: Community Council | 04 Oct 08:00: Edubuntu | 05 Oct 03:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Oct 16:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 16:00: Edubuntu05:29
rodarvus@schedule Sao_Paulo05:37
UbugtuSchedule for America/Sao_Paulo: 29 Sep 13:00: Ubuntu Desktop Effects Team | 03 Oct 14:00: Community Council | 04 Oct 09:00: Edubuntu | 05 Oct 04:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Oct 17:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 17:00: Edubuntu05:37
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DBO2hey guys05:46
gnomefreakgood morning05:47
DBO2im going to be using this name and IP, Im not at home or work05:47
DBO2kinda stopped off at a friends to make this05:47
gnomefreakok05:47
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DBO2how many we got so far gnomefreak?05:48
gnomefreakanyone here from the desktop-effects-team?05:48
gnomefreakDBO2: i havent seen anyone05:49
DBO2ok05:50
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Ubuntu Desktop Effects Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 03 Oct 17:00 UTC: Community Council | 04 Oct 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 05 Oct 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Oct 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 11 Oct 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu
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DBO2hey Camus_SoNiCo =)05:51
Camus_SoNiCohey05:52
Camus_SoNiCo:d05:52
Camus_SoNiCoHello, everybody05:52
Camus_SoNiCoarrived onn time?05:52
DBO2eh we are still waiting05:52
Camus_SoNiCogreat then05:53
DBO2gnomefreak, has the meeting been pimped in -xgl?05:54
gnomefreaki just said meeting in 15 minutes 15 minutes ago05:54
DBO2ok, pimp it again =)05:55
gnomefreakpimped05:55
gnomefreaki cant find this persons issue :(05:56
stgraberhi05:56
gnomefreakhi stgraber 05:56
=== Hawkwind Waves
gnomefreakhi Hawkwind 05:56
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Hawkwindgnomefreak: Mornin :)05:57
gnomefreakDBO2: give it a bit longer?05:57
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gnomefreakhi iXce 05:57
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iXcehi05:57
gnomefreakhi Quinn_Storm 05:57
gnomefreakhi lupine_85 05:57
Quinn_Stormhi05:57
lupine_85hi :)05:57
DBO2gnomefreak, I went a pimped some other channels =P05:57
gnomefreak:)05:57
=== lupine_85 is never late
gnomefreakok brb gonna run outside for a minute05:58
gnomefreaklupine_85: your late05:58
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gnomefreak:)05:58
lupine_85not according to my clock ;)05:58
lupine_8514:5805:58
lupine_85erm, 16:5805:58
DBO2yeah people still got some time05:58
stgraberalso :58 here :)05:58
lupine_85ntp++05:58
Camus_SoNiCo12:58 here, GMT-3 :P05:58
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Quinn_Storm:52 here...I must have weird ntp servers05:59
lupine_85BST here, I think... despite it being freezing september05:59
iXce:59 here05:59
lupine_85ooh the suspense05:59
Camus_SoNiCohehehheh06:00
DBO2ok ladies and gents, shall we begin?  despite our team of atomic powered super men not being present06:01
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Camus_SoNiCobefore we start, are the "results" of the current meeting gonna be placed somewhere? so anyone can read them06:01
DBO2yes06:02
stgraberThere is a page in the wiki06:02
DBO2this channel is logged06:02
gnomefreakthis channel is logged06:02
DBO2i win06:02
gnomefreak:)06:02
Camus_SoNiCook, great06:02
givrehttp://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ ;)06:02
=== gnomefreak is JOhn Vivirito
=== Camus_SoNiCo is Camus SoNiCo :P
DBO2ok, first off, who all do we have here that is a member of the team that is NOT a beryl dev?06:03
gnomefreaklol06:03
gnomefreakyeah me06:03
DBO2gnomefreak, I think we need to beat them...06:04
gnomefreakis joel here?06:04
lupine_85me :)06:04
stgraberme :)06:04
Camus_SoNiCome too, but i'm willing to develop06:04
gnomefreakrouben here?06:04
lupine_85(well, I'm downloading beryl-plugins source right now)06:04
gnomefreakhenrickomma here?06:04
DBO2Camus_SoNiCo, ok we will get to that06:05
Camus_SoNiCoOk06:05
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gnomefreakwho is a beryl devel other than Quinn_Storm  and DBO2 06:05
DBO2im not devel06:05
cyberorg<- sort of06:05
gnomefreakDBO2: your working on themes arnt you?06:05
DBO2but the team thats here is iXce, Quinn_Storm and cyberorg is a packager06:06
gnomefreakah ok06:06
DBO2iXce is perhaps one of the most important members of beryl (IMHO) next to Quinn_Storm 06:06
gnomefreakok other than dev. who here helps in #ubuntu-xgl (other than DBO2)06:06
DBO2lupine_85 is a big help06:07
DBO2hes there a lot06:07
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lupine_85am I?06:07
gnomefreakwe are in need of people helping in there06:07
gnomefreaklupine_85: yes06:07
lupine_85cor06:07
DBO2lifeless, here for the desktop effects meeting?06:07
gnomefreakit seems so06:07
DBO2gnomefreak, ok lets get some structure going =)06:07
DBO2First order of business is the wiki pages06:07
DBO2those need an entire overhaul06:08
DBO2beryl 0.1 has been pre-released06:08
DBO2and the wiki needs to reflect that as well as how to install compiz-git06:08
gnomefreakmyself and DBO2  have been starting on them but we are gonna have alot of pages hopfully all linked but need people willing to help on them06:09
DBO2I have some experience writing these walkthroughs06:09
gnomefreakDBO2: is there a main beryl repo? other than amaroths?06:09
iXcegnomefreak : official one :o)06:09
DBO2so if there are no objections, I would like to head up the wiki project06:09
gnomefreakiXce: there is?06:10
DBO2gnomefreak, yes just today06:10
gnomefreakok good06:10
lupine_85amaranth is closing his repo once the beryl official one gets up06:10
Quinn_Stormthe same repos that used to cover compiz-quinn06:10
gnomefreaklets use that for the wikis than06:10
DBO2yeah06:10
DBO2we will also need a wiki for switching to beryl from compiz06:10
DBO2which will be fairly easy06:11
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gnomefreakis this going to be in universe.multiverse at all for edgy or edgy+!?06:11
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DBO2thats the hope06:11
iXceedgy+1 i think, it sounds pretty impossible to get it into edgy, but edgy would be great :)06:11
DBO2I am hoping to work the MOTU on this06:11
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gnomefreakiXce: its pretty late for edgy06:12
lupine_85are we going to have transitional packages for compiz-quinn -> beryl?06:12
gnomefreakuniverse freeze started yesterday06:12
DBO2and I know Quinn_Storm is going to Mountain View, which means that we have a good shot at it06:12
shawarmagnomefreak: UVF was yesterday.06:12
cyberorgI guess as beryl and compiz can coexist, beryl-manager can become common tool for switching to and from beryl06:12
Quinn_Stormedgy+1 is a sensible goal, not edgy06:12
DBO2for edgy+1 that is06:12
DBO2cyberorg, I agree with that06:12
DBO2Quinn_Storm, I know you dont want to06:12
DBO2but it really is my opinion that beryl-manager should support compiz-git06:13
cyberorgmakes helping users easier - just tell them to use beryl manager06:13
Quinn_Stormwell if you guys want, we can work that in06:13
Quinn_Stormbut...it'll just be supported like any other WM is06:13
DBO2thats fine06:13
Quinn_Stormunless you guys want to take a crack at it06:13
cyberorgthats all is needed06:14
gnomefreakso to use compiz you install beryl-manager?06:14
cyberorgi can look into it06:14
DBO2gnomefreak, no its just an option06:14
gnomefreakoh ok06:14
DBO2and it adds consistancy to how they are launched06:14
gnomefreakok that sounds good than06:14
Quinn_Stormyeah, beryl-manager is fairly extensible06:15
DBO2makes walkthroughs easier too06:15
DBO2ok so that covers with wiki and that segway06:15
=== lupine_85 would like a "start automatically" option in beryl-manager.. . rather than adding it to sessions manually
gnomefreakQuinn_Storm: are your repos gonna be used for compiz/xgl?06:15
Quinn_Stormfor now06:15
gnomefreaklupine_85: how about a login option?06:15
Quinn_Stormwait06:15
cyberorglupine_85: put that on bugtracker06:15
Quinn_Stormcompiz?06:15
Quinn_StormI guess if someone wants to compile compiz-git pkgs06:16
DBO2Quinn_Storm, he wants to know if you will have compiz-git?06:16
DBO2we can get a packager for that06:16
Quinn_Stormwell I won't personally handle it but yeah we can package it06:16
DBO2would you be willing to add it in?06:16
gnomefreakQuinn_Storm: in other words are people only gonna be able to use the compiz in repos?06:16
Quinn_Stormgnomefreak: we'll package compiz-git, I just won't be doing it myself06:16
DBO2ok thats good06:17
DBO2I will begin searching for someone to do packaging06:17
iXcereggaemanu?06:17
DBO2perhaps06:17
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gnomefreaklol speaking of06:17
DBO2speak of the turkey =)06:18
gnomefreakok can we get the repos on the ML when ready to be used for either/both06:18
DBO2the repo is the same as the old compiz repo06:19
gnomefreakthat way we can build the wiki's around them06:19
DBO2xgl.compiz.info I believe06:19
reggaemanuhi06:19
Quinn_Stormwell as you know we're already ready w/ beryl06:19
Quinn_StormI pushed 0.1.0 packages thismorning06:19
Quinn_Stormand nigel pushed amd64 edgy pkgs06:19
gnomefreakQuinn_Storm: ah06:19
iXcehttp://ubuntu.beryl-project.org06:19
DBO2do we have someone doing 64 dapper?06:19
lupine_85Quinn_Storm: I'm still mirroring that as compiz-mirror. Should I change my beryl-mirror. over to it instead?06:20
reggaemanuDBO, we should use beryl-project.org no compiz.info ;) but the repo is the same yeah06:20
reggaemanuoops, it was for DBO2 :p06:20
lupine_85actually, I should point them both to the same one...06:20
DBO2reggaemanu, yeah sorry about the name, not on my normal PC06:20
lupine_85that we we update all the old compiz users, and all the ones using the unofficial repo as well06:20
DBO2lupine_85, thats not a bad idea06:21
lupine_85it's running now06:21
gnomefreakberyl = edgy and up only right?06:21
DBO2no06:21
DBO2it runs on dapper too06:21
Quinn_Stormno it was backported to dapper w/ the same stuff as compiz06:21
gnomefreakok06:21
DBO2mostly just libxcomposite06:21
Quinn_Stormyeah06:21
DBO2those backports should stay in place please =)06:22
DBO2ok, to recap gnomefreak06:22
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DBO2we need packagers for compiz-get, beryl 64bit dapper, beryl 32 edgy-dapper06:22
DBO2we want to remove the packaging duty from quinn all together06:23
DBO2so she is free to develop06:23
gnomefreakok i like that06:23
DBO2nigel_c is already taking care of 64bit edgy06:23
DBO2and once edgy is released we can stop packaging dapper06:23
reggaemanui can do it for compiz-git and beryl 3206:23
DBO2edgy or dapper?06:23
reggaemanu(edgy)06:23
gnomefreakk06:24
DBO2gnomefreak, can you take notes, I am not able to where I am06:24
reggaemanudapper too with a pbuilder but since i can't test it that's useless06:24
gnomefreakyeah give me a sec06:24
lupine_85I have 32 and 64 edgy06:24
=== Quinn_Storm pbuilders dapper too anyway
DBO2yeah but you are stopping that =P06:25
xopherI could do beryl 64bit dapper I guess06:25
lupine_85I meant for packaging official: [17:22]  <DBO2> we need packagers for compiz-get, beryl 64bit dapper, beryl 32 edgy-dapper06:25
gnomefreakDBO2: what is nigel_c packaging for 64bit?06:25
DBO2gnomefreak, beryl edgy06:25
gnomefreakk06:26
lupine_85unofficial beryl-mirror is now pointing to official beryl. unofficial beryl-64 is gone.06:26
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gnomefreakso reggaemanu and nigel are the only packagers we have for this so far?06:27
DBO2officially yes06:27
DBO2we  want to replace quinn06:27
DBO2we can see if Amaranth wants the job06:28
iXceahem06:28
DBO2he was already packaging06:28
reggaemanuwe need someone else for dapper06:28
DBO2iXce, did we miss you?06:28
iXcewhat's the problem with quinn doing some packages?06:28
DBO2iXce, she shouldnt have to06:28
DBO2it takes time that she can better spend elsewhere06:28
iXceyeah06:28
iXcethat's right :)06:29
Camus_SoNiColet her to some magic :P06:29
DBO2her time is far too valuable to have her packaging06:29
iXceand maybe should svn be less distro-specific06:29
DBO2thats really up to the dev team06:30
DBO2but you will find no qualms here06:30
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iXcebbl06:30
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gnomefreakok so far i have " 2 packagers listed" and notes for taking Quinn_Storm off packaging and see if amarath wants it. 06:30
gnomefreakand we need some more06:30
lupine_85Amaranth will be continuing with the l-r-m stuff, IIRC - I think I'm lending her an ssh session to do the compilation and upload whenever necessay06:31
lupine_85erm, him"06:32
stgraberI'm interested but I just don't know how to do so :), so if someone explain me what to do and how (I also have 2-3 howtos in my bookmarks), I can help with packaging06:32
DBO2gnomefreak, note down that we may hit up Amaranth for info06:32
gnomefreakinfo on what?06:32
DBO2packaging06:33
gnomefreaknoted06:33
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gnomefreakwecome Xnix 06:33
DBO2ok next06:33
gnomefreakwelcome even06:33
Xnixhowdy06:33
DBO2as far as bug reports go06:33
DBO2all team member should be made aware of the bug tracker06:34
gnomefreakDBO2: got a handy link?06:34
DBO2bugs.beryl-project.org06:34
=== lupine_85 bookmarks
DBO2on a related note I think team members should be subscribed to the svn commit emails06:35
gnomefreakagreed06:35
Xnixhow do we get on those?06:35
Xnixi keep up with it, but didnt know there was email06:35
gnomefreakDBO2: are we using LP for beryl buggs?06:35
Quinn_Stormwe're in the process of fixing that06:36
gnomefreakk06:36
DBO2gnomefreak, yes and no06:36
gnomefreakDBO2: we can get together later about that06:36
DBO2gnomefreak, anything that is not in ubuntu repos should not go in launchpad I dont think...06:36
reggaemanuthe login still don't work06:36
DBO2we will have to talk on that later06:36
gnomefreakDBO2: agreed06:36
gnomefreakbrb phone06:36
DBO2Quinn_Storm, is there any chance beryl might end up on launchpad itself?06:37
Quinn_StormGenerally...probably not...I hate their interface06:37
reggaemanuanyway, what is in ubuntu repos isn't package like it should, some patchs missed for xgl -_-06:37
DBO2Quinn_Storm, ok06:37
reggaemanugnome-session need some patch too06:37
mjg59reggaemanu: The package in the Ubuntu repos works fine with the X server we ship06:38
DBO2reggaemanu, have bugs been submitted to launchpad?06:38
DBO2mjg59, what about the gnome-session issue06:38
reggaemanumjg59, the java patch is missing, so java app can't work on compiz git or beryl 06:38
mjg59reggaemanu: Patch in launchpad plskthxbi06:39
reggaemanuand there is no possibility to disable the grabscreen in gnome-session so it doesn't work with aiglx or nvidia beta driver06:39
reggaemanuso you cant say that it works with the x server you ship :p06:39
mjg59I've used it extensively with the X server we ship06:39
DBO2are you using xgl or aiglx?06:39
mjg59aiglx06:39
mjg59That is, the X server we ship06:39
iXcereggaemanu : yeah we know, we're wroking on that with coling right now06:39
DBO2iXce, ok thats fine then06:40
DBO2Camus_SoNiCo, you wanted to know how you could help06:40
reggaemanumjg59, and you are able to logout with aiglx and the official gnome-session package?06:40
reggaemanuthat's impossible, the grab break the logout dialog06:40
mjg59reggaemanu: Please. File. A. Bug.06:40
Camus_SoNiCoyes, but first i'd like to cover Xgl vs AIGLX, not sure about diffs06:41
iXcemjg59 : we already did06:41
reggaemanueverybody is aware of that since around 6 month...06:41
Xnixreggaemanu i can log out sometimes, usuing unpatched gnome-session with beryl06:41
Xnixin Xgl06:41
DBO2Xnix, thats xgl06:41
DBO2doesnt have the issue06:41
reggaemanuXnix, it's ok in xgl, i'm talking about aiglx...06:41
Xnixahh ok06:41
mjg59Oh, that's interesting06:41
DBO2its on aiglx and nvidia beta drivers that have the issue06:41
mjg59Why don't I get compiz bugs?06:41
reggaemanu(adn it is the same with the new nvidia drivers now)06:41
lupine_85logout works here (edgy+nvidia beta)06:41
reggaemanus/adn/and06:41
mjg59I used to06:42
lupine_85erm, but KDE06:42
iXcebut it's not a high priority bug since there's no compositing manager included by default06:42
iXceand it's a gnome-session bug06:42
reggaemanulupine_85, we are talking about gnome-session so if you use KDE... ^^06:42
lupine_85yep - noticed that after $13$1006:42
lupine_85;)06:42
DBO2ok, so bug has been filed, its out of our hands for now06:43
reggaemanulibwnck need some patch too, i must repackage it every time there is an update in the official repo, that's boring06:43
=== Camus_SoNiCo wants to know de diff between Xgl and AIGLX
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DBO2Camus_SoNiCo, different arch, while Xgl runs on top of Xorg, AIGLX is part of Xorg06:43
DBO2both however provide a means to get TFP06:43
DBO2(amoung other things)06:44
gnomefreakok sorry about htat06:44
givremjg59:  https://launchpad.net/bugs/24221 https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gnome-session/+bug/5924406:44
UbugtuMalone bug 24221 in gnome-session "GNOME logout screen doesn't appear when the composite is enabled" [Unknown,Unconfirmed]  06:44
Camus_SoNiCoDBO2, thanks06:44
DBO2the primary difference is aiglx allows for direct rendering Camus_SoNiCo 06:44
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Camus_SoNiCoah, great for games ;)06:44
DBO2and videa06:44
DBO2video06:44
mjg59givre: Thanks06:45
Camus_SoNiCoDBO2, i should switch then :P06:45
DBO2Camus_SoNiCo, there are video card support issues06:45
stgraberIf the driver can work with AIGLX ...06:45
DBO2guys06:45
Camus_SoNiCoDBO2, it has issues with nvidia?06:45
DBO2I got to run06:45
DBO2Camus_SoNiCo, yes06:46
Camus_SoNiCoups :S06:46
gnomefreaki have seen a few compiz/xgl bugs on LP recently. not sure if reported than or traiged than06:46
DBO2gnomefreak, can you handle it from here? =)06:46
gnomefreakDBO2: where are we?06:46
DBO2gnomefreak, the differences between Xgl/AIGLX/compiz/beryl06:46
reggaemanuthe patchs to make libwnck compiz/beryl aware should really go to official ubuntu repo06:47
DBO2ill be back later tonight gnomefreak 06:47
=== lupine_85 knows what he would like to see in the (any) repos... http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=46021 : kicker-compiz
gnomefreakok but shouldnt that have been with JoelStanley here?06:47
gnomefreakDBO2: ok go for it06:47
gnomefreaki +1 lupine_85 idea if it is possible to add it in06:48
mjg59Oh06:48
mjg59No, we're not going to be including that gnome-session patch06:48
mjg59It's mad06:48
mjg59There has to be a better way to fix that06:49
reggaemanumjg59, that's just a workaround yeah, anyway others distrib just disable the grab for everybody06:49
lupine_85it doesn't deal with normal KDE desktops properly, so I think it's not appropriate for official ubuntu06:49
mjg59reggaemanu: That would be one solution, yes. It would be preferable to find another one.06:49
reggaemanumjg59, make the grab a gconf option by example ;)06:49
mjg59reggaemanu: Let's just make it work...06:49
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lupine_85won't work for default dapper, though - kde 3.5.206:50
lupine_85it#'s 3.5.4 I think06:50
iXcewow Matthew Garett is here :)06:50
gnomefreakiXce: he is06:50
reggaemanu:)06:50
iXcethat's great :)06:50
mjg59The bug could do with a better description of what the problem actually is06:51
gnomefreakis gconf still in compiz in ubuntu repos?06:51
mjg59Yes06:51
gnomefreakk06:51
reggaemanugnomefreak, yeah06:51
reggaemanuthat's the last release before it has been removed06:51
gnomefreakwould it be any benifit to just leave the compiz to ubuntus repos instead of opening Quinn_Storm's for it?06:52
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Quinn_Stormgnomefreak: well, compiz-git is still such a moving target...and besides, for ubuntu, we're trying to move toward Beryl (at least that's the opinion I got from Mark)06:53
mjg59As Seb points out in that bug, setting LTSP_CLIENT will do what you want to do here in any csae06:53
iXceQuinn_Storm : even though beryl is full of "dirty" code and "hackish" workarounds? ^^06:53
lupine_85hehe06:54
iXcemjg59 : any hint on how to activate that LTSP thing please?06:54
lupine_85it will be if I start on it!06:54
reggaemanu^^06:54
gnomefreakiXce: im sure cleaning up would be a requirment befor eubuntu takes it06:54
mjg59iXce: Just make sure that LTSP_CLIENT is set in your environment06:54
mjg59Putting it in .gnomerc should do06:54
iXceand if i've got no .gnomerc?06:54
mjg59iXce: Create one? :)06:54
lupine_85.bashrc? .xsession ?06:54
mjg59I believe it's used by default06:54
gnomefreakcompiz will have to stay around for a while anyway06:54
iXcemjg59 : great idea :p06:55
iXcegnomefreak : that's already one of the main goals of beryl06:55
mjg59In the end, it's likely that we'll go with whichever solution works best06:55
iXcedocumentation, debugging, code cleanup, usability ^^06:55
XnixiXce what do you mean?06:55
reggaemanuso that's pretty like the hackish gandalfn patch, we have to put a line in .gnomerc06:55
XnixiXce ahh k06:55
mjg59That's not really going to be a decision we make before part-way through the Edgy+1 cycle06:56
mjg59Mark's quite clearly keen on whatever gives us the most bling possible, but we'll see what's most effective for our users by then06:56
mjg59Bling's not going to come at the expense of reliability06:56
gnomefreakif we add beryl to ubuntu repos in future is it possible to get a login option in gdm/kdm/xdm?06:57
Quinn_Stormwhat he seems to like is the community aspect...he's not big on davidr's development model06:57
iXcemjg59 : i fully agree with that :)06:57
reggaemanugnomefreak, that should be possible06:57
gnomefreakreggaemanu: that way people without much hacking can log in and out06:58
reggaemanugnomefreak, we can also update gnome-wm to prefer beryl if composite is available and use metacity if not06:58
gnomefreakk06:58
reggaemanuthat's what i use currently, and that's what it is done on suse06:58
mjg59So why doesn't gnome-session just check whether the compositing manager selection atom is set?06:58
mjg59That would seem the sensible thing to do06:59
iXce+106:59
gnomefreaki agree also06:59
reggaemanumjg59, on suse gnome-session is patched for that06:59
mjg59reggaemanu: Ok. Can you point me at the patch?06:59
reggaemanuit checks for the tfp extension06:59
reggaemanumjg59, yeah, 2 seconds06:59
mjg59reggaemanu: Thanks06:59
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mjg59I'd rather have functionality depend on what's running, rather than a user-set environment variable06:59
=== Camus_SoNiCo will leave soon and wants to know how to help on development
iXcethat's much more sensible :)07:00
Xnixyes07:00
reggaemanui don't find where it was, i will jst upload them somewhere07:00
gnomefreakCamus_SoNiCo: i can get up with dbo and others and get a mail out to the ML on how to contribute/develop and who to talk to about it if people are willing to help07:01
Camus_SoNiCognomefreak, that will do for me but i think we should have wiki pages also07:02
gnomefreakCamus_SoNiCo: even motu can help you with packaging if that is what you really want help with07:02
gnomefreakCamus_SoNiCo: we will07:02
iXcehmm07:02
mjg59Ok07:02
mjg59By the way:07:02
gnomefreakCamus_SoNiCo: alot of wiki's will be poping up07:02
iXceis there a skilled web designer/programmer willing to help with beryl page?07:02
mjg59I'm not ideally suited to deal with bugs in compiz/beryl themselves07:03
mjg59But07:03
Camus_SoNiCognomefreak, great then07:03
Xnixwiki sounds good Camus_SoNiCo 07:03
Xnixgnomefreak awesome (abouth the wikis)07:03
mjg59If people have issues with the integration of these packages with other packages in main, feel free to talk to me07:03
lupine_85one question - currently the unofficial beryl thread (in Edgy) is full of <random-hack-to-get-beryl-working-with-whatever>... is there any sane way to get some of them dealt with automagically?07:03
mjg59Like this gnome-session issue, for example07:03
mjg59Oh, yeah, while I'm at it07:03
lupine_85e.g. in #ubuntu-xgl ust now, someone missed out enabling the composite extension07:03
reggaemanumjg59, here are all the patchs related to compiz/xgl they use, and the .src.rpm for gnome-session if you want to see the specs http://www.compiz.info/.gnome-session/07:04
Camus_SoNiCoXnix, i think wikis can attract "isolated" devs...07:04
Xnixyeah07:04
mjg59reggaemanu: Ok, they don't seem to be doing this the way I want to do it07:05
mjg59Give me a minute and I'll test07:05
=== Camus_SoNiCo leaves and says bye to all. Nice meeting :D
mjg59Does the new nvidia stuff need --strict-binding?07:05
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lupine_85mjg59: where would I check that? I've never *Set* it...07:06
gnomefreaklupine_85: i dont know but if so soon is good (i have added a crap load of stuff to xorg.conf to get it working07:06
iXceoh yeah, about packaging, aceracer24 was ok to deal with amd64 packages07:06
reggaemanumjg59, no that work with or without --strict-binding07:06
mjg59Ok07:07
mjg59So why does --indirect not imply --strict-binding?07:07
lupine_85it's stuff like setting composite "true" | composite "0" for nvidia | fglrx that i'm thinking of... people generally expect packages to do all the hard work for them ;)07:08
mjg59If you've got free drivers, you don't need to edit anything in xorg.conf07:08
Xnixyeah07:08
iXcemjg59 : even for intel chips?07:08
mjg59It would be nice if the proprietary vendors would deal with that07:08
mjg59iXce: That's what I use07:08
iXceoh :)07:09
iXceno XAAOffscreenPixmap then?07:09
reggaemanulupine_85, composite is set to true by default now, and that works for nvidia/ati/intel aiglx/xgl/xorg so there's no need to change that07:09
mjg59iXce: That's handled magically07:09
lupine_85oh, right... I must be out of date ;)07:10
iXcegreat :)07:10
Xnixlupine_85 edgy?07:10
lupine_85yes07:10
lupine_85I meant in the knowledge stakes though07:10
rodarvusXAAOffscreenPixmap is handled automatically since version 1.6.1 (?) of the i810 driver07:10
Xnixhmm strange, mine was set by default07:10
Xnixlupine_85 ahh07:10
lupine_85but doesn't fglrx need it off?07:10
lupine_85erm, ignore me. 0=true, of course07:10
mjg59It's done in the X server07:10
mjg59Through a foul hack07:11
reggaemanumaybe we will have a good free nvidia driver soon :) ("nouveau" driver)07:11
Xnixalright i gotta head out guys, class over :P later07:11
reggaemanui gotta buy cigarettes and eat something, see you after07:12
iXcecigarette killed everyone ^^07:14
rodarvusmjg59, ahn, you added this patch on 1:1.1.1-0ubuntu807:14
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mjg59rodarvus: Yeah07:15
ThiefOfBaghdadErr.. am i late for the u-d-e meeting07:15
rodarvus(I was under the impression this was turned on by default on the intel driver recently, though)07:15
gnomefreak@schedule07:15
UbugtuSchedule for Etc/UTC: Current meeting: Ubuntu Desktop Effects Team | 03 Oct 17:00: Community Council | 04 Oct 12:00: Edubuntu | 05 Oct 07:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Oct 20:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 20:00: Edubuntu07:15
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tuxmaniacclear07:16
tuxmaniacbah.. terminal07:16
tuxmaniacgnomefreak> hi. is it still on?07:16
gnomefreakok i gotta go i will send DBO notes and we will see where we are07:17
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tuxmaniacgnomefreak> ok. good07:17
iXcenot so much notes ^^07:17
=== tuxmaniac blames his manager for being late
tuxmaniac:(07:18
gnomefreakiXce: i have a few notes :)07:18
iXce:)07:18
tuxmaniacgnomefreak> one small question07:18
gnomefreaktuxmaniac: yes?07:18
tuxmaniacCan the IRC Channel be changed to ubuntu-desktop-effects07:18
tuxmaniacrather than having it as ubuntu-xgl07:18
tuxmaniacwas this discussed?07:18
tuxmaniacI mean ubuntu-xgl does not (atleast by name) consider the other ones that are around07:19
tuxmaniacJust a suggstion07:19
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gnomefreaktuxmaniac: that is something ive been meaning to get up with DBO about there will be a post to the ML after i talk to him07:20
tuxmaniacgnomefreak> great!07:20
iXcewhat's the ml?07:21
Quinn_StormI've gotta head out guys07:21
tuxmaniaciXce> Mailing list07:21
iXcei mean, where is it?07:21
Quinn_Stormsleeptime07:21
iXcetuxmaniac : yeah i know :)07:21
iXcenight quinn07:21
iXcearg07:21
tuxmaniaciXce> :P07:21
stgraberiXce: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop-effects07:21
tuxmaniacstgraber> you are quicker than me :D07:22
stgraber:)07:22
iXcethanks07:22
stgrabernp07:22
henoare we still on the agenda somewhere?07:27
mjg59For reference, I've got a patch to gnome-session that I'm happy with now07:29
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Laifenre07:31
iXcehi Laifen 07:31
LaifenHi iXce07:32
henomjg59: any idea how complicated it would be to pump AT-SPI info into compiz? (to allow cursor tracking say)07:32
henocurrently the magnifier seems fairly static07:33
mjg59I'm not really sure how that's meant to work07:33
mjg59Keith Packard talked about it for a while and then found some other shiny thing07:34
henoas in the fuctionality or the implementation?07:34
henoright07:34
mjg59I honestly can't remember how much functionality at-spi has in this respect07:34
henois that who I should poke about it?07:34
mjg59It's worth asking him07:34
henoanyone on this team deep enough into the code to manage that?07:35
henoor anyone likely to be at Mountain View?07:35
iXceQuinn_Storm and onestone07:36
henoiXce: thanks I'll try them too07:36
iXceit's about beryl, right?07:37
henoiXce: any sort of accelerated graphics will do07:37
henoit's about making a better magnifier for visually impaired people07:37
henoHas anyone here tried gnome-mag?07:38
henoin gnopernicus or Orca07:38
henoYou'll see that it's very inferior to the compiz magnifier07:38
henoon performance07:38
henoBut has a few crucial features07:39
henosee: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Specs/compiz-mag for more info07:39
mjg59reggaemanu: Uploaded07:43
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reggaemanumjg59, gnome-session patched? :)07:45
mjg59Yes07:45
reggaemanucool07:45
givr1mjg59: great07:45
reggaemanuthere is still libwnck and add the java patch to xgl-xserver :p07:46
reggaemanu^^07:46
mjg59I thought we didn't have a working patch for libwnck yet?07:47
reggaemanuwe have07:47
reggaemanuthere is already a patched package in xgl.compiz.info repo07:47
reggaemanubut i have to repackage every time there is an update in ubuntu's repo, that's pretty boring07:47
mjg59reggaemanu: Didn't somebody say something about it not working properly in some cases?07:48
mjg59And can you point me to the bug/patch?07:48
reggaemanumjg59, www.compiz.info/patches/libwnck07:48
reggaemanuand no there is definitively no problem07:48
mjg59reggaemanu: Those patches are large and undocumented07:49
reggaemanuit change nothing for non compiz users07:49
mjg59Have you got a pointer to the bug discussing the issue and why each of those is required?07:49
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reggaemanumjg59, the above patch fix the on top menu entry for compiz (by default it is greyd since libwnck don't have a above hint)07:50
reggaemanumjg59, viewport add viewport entries like workspaces ones with metacity07:51
reggaemanuwindow move is needed for the viewport patch07:51
mjg59reggaemanu: Wait. Why do we need viewport support?07:51
iXcemjg59 : because the so-great davidr choosed that :/07:51
mjg59I'm not going to be responsible for reintroducing this distinction into wnck07:52
mjg59We have desktops.07:52
reggaemanumjg59, compiz/beryl don't have workspace, it is vewports (as in freedesktop specs)07:52
mjg59What's the difference between desktops and viewports?07:52
reggaemanua workspace can contain many viewports07:52
mjg59Will this ever actually happen?07:53
mjg59I mean, will anyone we actually care about ever have a setup where there's a meaningful distinction between the two?07:53
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reggaemanucompiz use only one workspace with many viewport, like it should be (e.g. freedesktop specs), metacity and kde don't follow fdo specs07:54
mjg59No, that doesn't answer my question07:54
mjg59Is there any situation in which a user is going to have both workspaces and viewports?07:54
mjg59(As in, more than one of each)07:54
reggaemanuwe don't care about the distinction, the fact is that with compiz, there is no entry to move the window on another workspace/viewport since it handle only workspace and there is only one workspace07:55
mjg59So remove all references in user-visible strings to "viewport" and replace them with "workspace"07:55
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mjg59"Viewport" is an utterly meaningless term to users07:55
lupine_85the distinction is important if you run KDE :(07:56
mjg59Oh argh.07:56
lupine_85standard kicker works with workspaces, not viewports07:57
mjg59Ok. I am not uploading anything that will make the term "viewport" appear in the UI.07:57
lupine_85sensible :). meant nothing to me until I looked it up07:57
mjg59So the distinction is that a workspace is a logically distinct thing, and viewports are segregated on-screen areas of a workspace. Windows can overlap different viewports, but not workspaces.07:58
mjg59Is that right?07:58
reggaemanumjg59, the original threads where david reveman have post theses patch http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/compiz/2006-April/000117.html07:59
reggaemanu(those i have sent to you are the originals ones ported to libwnck 2.16, except the apperance patch that replace the opacity one, more complete)07:59
mjg59Ridiculous hatred07:59
mjg59What does the appearance one actually do?08:00
mjg59Set opacity with wnck?08:00
mjg59Neat toy. So not getting in :)08:01
iXceappearance is for opacity, saturation and brightness i think08:01
reggaemanumjg59, it add this menu entrie if the wm support the opacity hint ://static.flickr.com/65/199540689_00b3dfbb74.jpg08:01
reggaemanuhttp://static.flickr.com/65/199540689_00b3dfbb74.jp08:02
reggaemanuerf08:02
reggaemanuhttp://static.flickr.com/65/199540689_00b3dfbb74.jpg08:02
reggaemanu_08:02
mjg59Ok08:03
mjg59I'm reasonably happy with most of them other than the appearance one08:03
mjg59I'll see if I can sneak them in08:04
reggaemanuthere is an opened bug (by a libwnck dev) on bugzilla.gnome.org about these patchs but there is no reply08:05
reggaemanuthat should be great, although if you don't add the apperance patch people will continu to use the non official package :)08:05
reggaemanueverybody use it since before dapper08:05
reggaemanuand i'm tired to re-package it everytime08:06
reggaemanuit's not a really important patch that's true08:07
reggaemanubut users like that :/08:07
reggaemanuanyway, i'm gotta eat, be back later08:07
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=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 03 Oct 17:00 UTC: Community Council | 04 Oct 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 05 Oct 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Oct 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 11 Oct 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
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Xnixreggaemanu so edgy gnome-sessios shold be patched now?08:38
mjg59Xnix: Yes08:38
Xnixmjg59 awesome :D08:39
Xnixand those libwnck except the appearance one? or not yet08:39
mjg59Not yet08:40
Xnixalright08:40
Xnixthanks08:41
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