[07:24] <Laifen> Bonjour  tous :o)
[09:38] <Seveas> Laifen, could you please not do automated on-join messages in here
[09:38] <Laifen> ?
[09:39] <Fujitsu> Laifen, every time you join, you send a message to here.
[09:39] <Laifen> and ?
[09:39] <Seveas> which is annoying
[09:39] <Seveas> so don't
[12:16] <Laifen> Bon aprs midi  tous a++
[05:09] <stgraber> @schedule Zurich
[05:09] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Zurich: 29 Sep 18:00: Ubuntu Desktop Effects Team | 03 Oct 19:00: Community Council | 04 Oct 14:00: Edubuntu | 05 Oct 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Oct 22:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 22:00: Edubuntu
[05:29] <gnomefreak> @schedule new_york
[05:29] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/New_York: 29 Sep 12:00: Ubuntu Desktop Effects Team | 03 Oct 13:00: Community Council | 04 Oct 08:00: Edubuntu | 05 Oct 03:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Oct 16:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 16:00: Edubuntu
[05:37] <rodarvus> @schedule Sao_Paulo
[05:37] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Sao_Paulo: 29 Sep 13:00: Ubuntu Desktop Effects Team | 03 Oct 14:00: Community Council | 04 Oct 09:00: Edubuntu | 05 Oct 04:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Oct 17:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 17:00: Edubuntu
[05:46] <DBO2> hey guys
[05:47] <gnomefreak> good morning
[05:47] <DBO2> im going to be using this name and IP, Im not at home or work
[05:47] <DBO2> kinda stopped off at a friends to make this
[05:47] <gnomefreak> ok
[05:48] <DBO2> how many we got so far gnomefreak?
[05:48] <gnomefreak> anyone here from the desktop-effects-team?
[05:49] <gnomefreak> DBO2: i havent seen anyone
[05:50] <DBO2> ok
[05:51] <DBO2> hey Camus_SoNiCo =)
[05:52] <Camus_SoNiCo> hey
[05:52] <Camus_SoNiCo> :d
[05:52] <Camus_SoNiCo> Hello, everybody
[05:52] <Camus_SoNiCo> arrived onn time?
[05:52] <DBO2> eh we are still waiting
[05:53] <Camus_SoNiCo> great then
[05:54] <DBO2> gnomefreak, has the meeting been pimped in -xgl?
[05:54] <gnomefreak> i just said meeting in 15 minutes 15 minutes ago
[05:55] <DBO2> ok, pimp it again =)
[05:55] <gnomefreak> pimped
[05:56] <gnomefreak> i cant find this persons issue :(
[05:56] <stgraber> hi
[05:56] <gnomefreak> hi stgraber 
[05:56] <gnomefreak> hi Hawkwind 
[05:57] <Hawkwind> gnomefreak: Mornin :)
[05:57] <gnomefreak> DBO2: give it a bit longer?
[05:57] <gnomefreak> hi iXce 
[05:57] <iXce> hi
[05:57] <gnomefreak> hi Quinn_Storm 
[05:57] <gnomefreak> hi lupine_85 
[05:57] <Quinn_Storm> hi
[05:57] <lupine_85> hi :)
[05:57] <DBO2> gnomefreak, I went a pimped some other channels =P
[05:57] <gnomefreak> :)
[05:58] <gnomefreak> ok brb gonna run outside for a minute
[05:58] <gnomefreak> lupine_85: your late
[05:58] <gnomefreak> :)
[05:58] <lupine_85> not according to my clock ;)
[05:58] <lupine_85> 14:58
[05:58] <lupine_85> erm, 16:58
[05:58] <DBO2> yeah people still got some time
[05:58] <stgraber> also :58 here :)
[05:58] <lupine_85> ntp++
[05:58] <Camus_SoNiCo> 12:58 here, GMT-3 :P
[05:59] <Quinn_Storm> :52 here...I must have weird ntp servers
[05:59] <lupine_85> BST here, I think... despite it being freezing september
[05:59] <iXce> :59 here
[05:59] <lupine_85> ooh the suspense
[06:00] <Camus_SoNiCo> hehehheh
[06:01] <DBO2> ok ladies and gents, shall we begin?  despite our team of atomic powered super men not being present
[06:01] <Camus_SoNiCo> before we start, are the "results" of the current meeting gonna be placed somewhere? so anyone can read them
[06:02] <DBO2> yes
[06:02] <stgraber> There is a page in the wiki
[06:02] <DBO2> this channel is logged
[06:02] <gnomefreak> this channel is logged
[06:02] <DBO2> i win
[06:02] <gnomefreak> :)
[06:02] <Camus_SoNiCo> ok, great
[06:02] <givre> http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ ;)
[06:03] <DBO2> ok, first off, who all do we have here that is a member of the team that is NOT a beryl dev?
[06:03] <gnomefreak> lol
[06:03] <gnomefreak> yeah me
[06:04] <DBO2> gnomefreak, I think we need to beat them...
[06:04] <gnomefreak> is joel here?
[06:04] <lupine_85> me :)
[06:04] <stgraber> me :)
[06:04] <Camus_SoNiCo> me too, but i'm willing to develop
[06:04] <gnomefreak> rouben here?
[06:04] <lupine_85> (well, I'm downloading beryl-plugins source right now)
[06:04] <gnomefreak> henrickomma here?
[06:05] <DBO2> Camus_SoNiCo, ok we will get to that
[06:05] <Camus_SoNiCo> Ok
[06:05] <gnomefreak> who is a beryl devel other than Quinn_Storm  and DBO2 
[06:05] <DBO2> im not devel
[06:05] <cyberorg> <- sort of
[06:05] <gnomefreak> DBO2: your working on themes arnt you?
[06:06] <DBO2> but the team thats here is iXce, Quinn_Storm and cyberorg is a packager
[06:06] <gnomefreak> ah ok
[06:06] <DBO2> iXce is perhaps one of the most important members of beryl (IMHO) next to Quinn_Storm 
[06:06] <gnomefreak> ok other than dev. who here helps in #ubuntu-xgl (other than DBO2)
[06:07] <DBO2> lupine_85 is a big help
[06:07] <DBO2> hes there a lot
[06:07] <lupine_85> am I?
[06:07] <gnomefreak> we are in need of people helping in there
[06:07] <gnomefreak> lupine_85: yes
[06:07] <lupine_85> cor
[06:07] <DBO2> lifeless, here for the desktop effects meeting?
[06:07] <gnomefreak> it seems so
[06:07] <DBO2> gnomefreak, ok lets get some structure going =)
[06:07] <DBO2> First order of business is the wiki pages
[06:08] <DBO2> those need an entire overhaul
[06:08] <DBO2> beryl 0.1 has been pre-released
[06:08] <DBO2> and the wiki needs to reflect that as well as how to install compiz-git
[06:09] <gnomefreak> myself and DBO2  have been starting on them but we are gonna have alot of pages hopfully all linked but need people willing to help on them
[06:09] <DBO2> I have some experience writing these walkthroughs
[06:09] <gnomefreak> DBO2: is there a main beryl repo? other than amaroths?
[06:09] <iXce> gnomefreak : official one :o)
[06:09] <DBO2> so if there are no objections, I would like to head up the wiki project
[06:10] <gnomefreak> iXce: there is?
[06:10] <DBO2> gnomefreak, yes just today
[06:10] <gnomefreak> ok good
[06:10] <lupine_85> amaranth is closing his repo once the beryl official one gets up
[06:10] <Quinn_Storm> the same repos that used to cover compiz-quinn
[06:10] <gnomefreak> lets use that for the wikis than
[06:10] <DBO2> yeah
[06:10] <DBO2> we will also need a wiki for switching to beryl from compiz
[06:11] <DBO2> which will be fairly easy
[06:11] <gnomefreak> is this going to be in universe.multiverse at all for edgy or edgy+!?
[06:11] <DBO2> thats the hope
[06:11] <iXce> edgy+1 i think, it sounds pretty impossible to get it into edgy, but edgy would be great :)
[06:11] <DBO2> I am hoping to work the MOTU on this
[06:12] <gnomefreak> iXce: its pretty late for edgy
[06:12] <lupine_85> are we going to have transitional packages for compiz-quinn -> beryl?
[06:12] <gnomefreak> universe freeze started yesterday
[06:12] <DBO2> and I know Quinn_Storm is going to Mountain View, which means that we have a good shot at it
[06:12] <shawarma> gnomefreak: UVF was yesterday.
[06:12] <cyberorg> I guess as beryl and compiz can coexist, beryl-manager can become common tool for switching to and from beryl
[06:12] <Quinn_Storm> edgy+1 is a sensible goal, not edgy
[06:12] <DBO2> for edgy+1 that is
[06:12] <DBO2> cyberorg, I agree with that
[06:12] <DBO2> Quinn_Storm, I know you dont want to
[06:13] <DBO2> but it really is my opinion that beryl-manager should support compiz-git
[06:13] <cyberorg> makes helping users easier - just tell them to use beryl manager
[06:13] <Quinn_Storm> well if you guys want, we can work that in
[06:13] <Quinn_Storm> but...it'll just be supported like any other WM is
[06:13] <DBO2> thats fine
[06:13] <Quinn_Storm> unless you guys want to take a crack at it
[06:14] <cyberorg> thats all is needed
[06:14] <gnomefreak> so to use compiz you install beryl-manager?
[06:14] <cyberorg> i can look into it
[06:14] <DBO2> gnomefreak, no its just an option
[06:14] <gnomefreak> oh ok
[06:14] <DBO2> and it adds consistancy to how they are launched
[06:14] <gnomefreak> ok that sounds good than
[06:15] <Quinn_Storm> yeah, beryl-manager is fairly extensible
[06:15] <DBO2> makes walkthroughs easier too
[06:15] <DBO2> ok so that covers with wiki and that segway
[06:15] <gnomefreak> Quinn_Storm: are your repos gonna be used for compiz/xgl?
[06:15] <Quinn_Storm> for now
[06:15] <gnomefreak> lupine_85: how about a login option?
[06:15] <Quinn_Storm> wait
[06:15] <cyberorg> lupine_85: put that on bugtracker
[06:15] <Quinn_Storm> compiz?
[06:16] <Quinn_Storm> I guess if someone wants to compile compiz-git pkgs
[06:16] <DBO2> Quinn_Storm, he wants to know if you will have compiz-git?
[06:16] <DBO2> we can get a packager for that
[06:16] <Quinn_Storm> well I won't personally handle it but yeah we can package it
[06:16] <DBO2> would you be willing to add it in?
[06:16] <gnomefreak> Quinn_Storm: in other words are people only gonna be able to use the compiz in repos?
[06:16] <Quinn_Storm> gnomefreak: we'll package compiz-git, I just won't be doing it myself
[06:17] <DBO2> ok thats good
[06:17] <DBO2> I will begin searching for someone to do packaging
[06:17] <iXce> reggaemanu?
[06:17] <DBO2> perhaps
[06:17] <gnomefreak> lol speaking of
[06:18] <DBO2> speak of the turkey =)
[06:18] <gnomefreak> ok can we get the repos on the ML when ready to be used for either/both
[06:19] <DBO2> the repo is the same as the old compiz repo
[06:19] <gnomefreak> that way we can build the wiki's around them
[06:19] <DBO2> xgl.compiz.info I believe
[06:19] <reggaemanu> hi
[06:19] <Quinn_Storm> well as you know we're already ready w/ beryl
[06:19] <Quinn_Storm> I pushed 0.1.0 packages thismorning
[06:19] <Quinn_Storm> and nigel pushed amd64 edgy pkgs
[06:19] <gnomefreak> Quinn_Storm: ah
[06:19] <iXce> http://ubuntu.beryl-project.org
[06:19] <DBO2> do we have someone doing 64 dapper?
[06:20] <lupine_85> Quinn_Storm: I'm still mirroring that as compiz-mirror. Should I change my beryl-mirror. over to it instead?
[06:20] <reggaemanu> DBO, we should use beryl-project.org no compiz.info ;) but the repo is the same yeah
[06:20] <reggaemanu> oops, it was for DBO2 :p
[06:20] <lupine_85> actually, I should point them both to the same one...
[06:20] <DBO2> reggaemanu, yeah sorry about the name, not on my normal PC
[06:20] <lupine_85> that we we update all the old compiz users, and all the ones using the unofficial repo as well
[06:21] <DBO2> lupine_85, thats not a bad idea
[06:21] <lupine_85> it's running now
[06:21] <gnomefreak> beryl = edgy and up only right?
[06:21] <DBO2> no
[06:21] <DBO2> it runs on dapper too
[06:21] <Quinn_Storm> no it was backported to dapper w/ the same stuff as compiz
[06:21] <gnomefreak> ok
[06:21] <DBO2> mostly just libxcomposite
[06:21] <Quinn_Storm> yeah
[06:22] <DBO2> those backports should stay in place please =)
[06:22] <DBO2> ok, to recap gnomefreak
[06:22] <DBO2> we need packagers for compiz-get, beryl 64bit dapper, beryl 32 edgy-dapper
[06:23] <DBO2> we want to remove the packaging duty from quinn all together
[06:23] <DBO2> so she is free to develop
[06:23] <gnomefreak> ok i like that
[06:23] <DBO2> nigel_c is already taking care of 64bit edgy
[06:23] <DBO2> and once edgy is released we can stop packaging dapper
[06:23] <reggaemanu> i can do it for compiz-git and beryl 32
[06:23] <DBO2> edgy or dapper?
[06:23] <reggaemanu> (edgy)
[06:24] <gnomefreak> k
[06:24] <DBO2> gnomefreak, can you take notes, I am not able to where I am
[06:24] <reggaemanu> dapper too with a pbuilder but since i can't test it that's useless
[06:24] <gnomefreak> yeah give me a sec
[06:24] <lupine_85> I have 32 and 64 edgy
[06:25] <DBO2> yeah but you are stopping that =P
[06:25] <xopher> I could do beryl 64bit dapper I guess
[06:25] <lupine_85> I meant for packaging official: [17:22]  <DBO2> we need packagers for compiz-get, beryl 64bit dapper, beryl 32 edgy-dapper
[06:25] <gnomefreak> DBO2: what is nigel_c packaging for 64bit?
[06:25] <DBO2> gnomefreak, beryl edgy
[06:26] <gnomefreak> k
[06:26] <lupine_85> unofficial beryl-mirror is now pointing to official beryl. unofficial beryl-64 is gone.
[06:27] <gnomefreak> so reggaemanu and nigel are the only packagers we have for this so far?
[06:27] <DBO2> officially yes
[06:27] <DBO2> we  want to replace quinn
[06:28] <DBO2> we can see if Amaranth wants the job
[06:28] <iXce> ahem
[06:28] <DBO2> he was already packaging
[06:28] <reggaemanu> we need someone else for dapper
[06:28] <DBO2> iXce, did we miss you?
[06:28] <iXce> what's the problem with quinn doing some packages?
[06:28] <DBO2> iXce, she shouldnt have to
[06:28] <DBO2> it takes time that she can better spend elsewhere
[06:28] <iXce> yeah
[06:29] <iXce> that's right :)
[06:29] <Camus_SoNiCo> let her to some magic :P
[06:29] <DBO2> her time is far too valuable to have her packaging
[06:29] <iXce> and maybe should svn be less distro-specific
[06:30] <DBO2> thats really up to the dev team
[06:30] <DBO2> but you will find no qualms here
[06:30] <iXce> bbl
[06:30] <gnomefreak> ok so far i have " 2 packagers listed" and notes for taking Quinn_Storm off packaging and see if amarath wants it. 
[06:30] <gnomefreak> and we need some more
[06:31] <lupine_85> Amaranth will be continuing with the l-r-m stuff, IIRC - I think I'm lending her an ssh session to do the compilation and upload whenever necessay
[06:32] <lupine_85> erm, him"
[06:32] <stgraber> I'm interested but I just don't know how to do so :), so if someone explain me what to do and how (I also have 2-3 howtos in my bookmarks), I can help with packaging
[06:32] <DBO2> gnomefreak, note down that we may hit up Amaranth for info
[06:32] <gnomefreak> info on what?
[06:33] <DBO2> packaging
[06:33] <gnomefreak> noted
[06:33] <gnomefreak> wecome Xnix 
[06:33] <DBO2> ok next
[06:33] <gnomefreak> welcome even
[06:33] <Xnix> howdy
[06:33] <DBO2> as far as bug reports go
[06:34] <DBO2> all team member should be made aware of the bug tracker
[06:34] <gnomefreak> DBO2: got a handy link?
[06:34] <DBO2> bugs.beryl-project.org
[06:35] <DBO2> on a related note I think team members should be subscribed to the svn commit emails
[06:35] <gnomefreak> agreed
[06:35] <Xnix> how do we get on those?
[06:35] <Xnix> i keep up with it, but didnt know there was email
[06:35] <gnomefreak> DBO2: are we using LP for beryl buggs?
[06:36] <Quinn_Storm> we're in the process of fixing that
[06:36] <gnomefreak> k
[06:36] <DBO2> gnomefreak, yes and no
[06:36] <gnomefreak> DBO2: we can get together later about that
[06:36] <DBO2> gnomefreak, anything that is not in ubuntu repos should not go in launchpad I dont think...
[06:36] <reggaemanu> the login still don't work
[06:36] <DBO2> we will have to talk on that later
[06:36] <gnomefreak> DBO2: agreed
[06:36] <gnomefreak> brb phone
[06:37] <DBO2> Quinn_Storm, is there any chance beryl might end up on launchpad itself?
[06:37] <Quinn_Storm> Generally...probably not...I hate their interface
[06:37] <reggaemanu> anyway, what is in ubuntu repos isn't package like it should, some patchs missed for xgl -_-
[06:37] <DBO2> Quinn_Storm, ok
[06:37] <reggaemanu> gnome-session need some patch too
[06:38] <mjg59> reggaemanu: The package in the Ubuntu repos works fine with the X server we ship
[06:38] <DBO2> reggaemanu, have bugs been submitted to launchpad?
[06:38] <DBO2> mjg59, what about the gnome-session issue
[06:38] <reggaemanu> mjg59, the java patch is missing, so java app can't work on compiz git or beryl 
[06:39] <mjg59> reggaemanu: Patch in launchpad plskthxbi
[06:39] <reggaemanu> and there is no possibility to disable the grabscreen in gnome-session so it doesn't work with aiglx or nvidia beta driver
[06:39] <reggaemanu> so you cant say that it works with the x server you ship :p
[06:39] <mjg59> I've used it extensively with the X server we ship
[06:39] <DBO2> are you using xgl or aiglx?
[06:39] <mjg59> aiglx
[06:39] <mjg59> That is, the X server we ship
[06:39] <iXce> reggaemanu : yeah we know, we're wroking on that with coling right now
[06:40] <DBO2> iXce, ok thats fine then
[06:40] <DBO2> Camus_SoNiCo, you wanted to know how you could help
[06:40] <reggaemanu> mjg59, and you are able to logout with aiglx and the official gnome-session package?
[06:40] <reggaemanu> that's impossible, the grab break the logout dialog
[06:40] <mjg59> reggaemanu: Please. File. A. Bug.
[06:41] <Camus_SoNiCo> yes, but first i'd like to cover Xgl vs AIGLX, not sure about diffs
[06:41] <iXce> mjg59 : we already did
[06:41] <reggaemanu> everybody is aware of that since around 6 month...
[06:41] <Xnix> reggaemanu i can log out sometimes, usuing unpatched gnome-session with beryl
[06:41] <Xnix> in Xgl
[06:41] <DBO2> Xnix, thats xgl
[06:41] <DBO2> doesnt have the issue
[06:41] <reggaemanu> Xnix, it's ok in xgl, i'm talking about aiglx...
[06:41] <Xnix> ahh ok
[06:41] <mjg59> Oh, that's interesting
[06:41] <DBO2> its on aiglx and nvidia beta drivers that have the issue
[06:41] <mjg59> Why don't I get compiz bugs?
[06:41] <reggaemanu> (adn it is the same with the new nvidia drivers now)
[06:41] <lupine_85> logout works here (edgy+nvidia beta)
[06:41] <reggaemanu> s/adn/and
[06:42] <mjg59> I used to
[06:42] <lupine_85> erm, but KDE
[06:42] <iXce> but it's not a high priority bug since there's no compositing manager included by default
[06:42] <iXce> and it's a gnome-session bug
[06:42] <reggaemanu> lupine_85, we are talking about gnome-session so if you use KDE... ^^
[06:42] <lupine_85> yep - noticed that after $13$10
[06:42] <lupine_85> ;)
[06:43] <DBO2> ok, so bug has been filed, its out of our hands for now
[06:43] <reggaemanu> libwnck need some patch too, i must repackage it every time there is an update in the official repo, that's boring
[06:43] <DBO2> Camus_SoNiCo, different arch, while Xgl runs on top of Xorg, AIGLX is part of Xorg
[06:43] <DBO2> both however provide a means to get TFP
[06:44] <DBO2> (amoung other things)
[06:44] <gnomefreak> ok sorry about htat
[06:44] <givre> mjg59:  https://launchpad.net/bugs/24221 https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gnome-session/+bug/59244
[06:44] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 24221 in gnome-session "GNOME logout screen doesn't appear when the composite is enabled" [Unknown,Unconfirmed]  
[06:44] <Camus_SoNiCo> DBO2, thanks
[06:44] <DBO2> the primary difference is aiglx allows for direct rendering Camus_SoNiCo 
[06:44] <Camus_SoNiCo> ah, great for games ;)
[06:44] <DBO2> and videa
[06:44] <DBO2> video
[06:45] <mjg59> givre: Thanks
[06:45] <Camus_SoNiCo> DBO2, i should switch then :P
[06:45] <DBO2> Camus_SoNiCo, there are video card support issues
[06:45] <stgraber> If the driver can work with AIGLX ...
[06:45] <DBO2> guys
[06:45] <Camus_SoNiCo> DBO2, it has issues with nvidia?
[06:45] <DBO2> I got to run
[06:46] <DBO2> Camus_SoNiCo, yes
[06:46] <Camus_SoNiCo> ups :S
[06:46] <gnomefreak> i have seen a few compiz/xgl bugs on LP recently. not sure if reported than or traiged than
[06:46] <DBO2> gnomefreak, can you handle it from here? =)
[06:46] <gnomefreak> DBO2: where are we?
[06:46] <DBO2> gnomefreak, the differences between Xgl/AIGLX/compiz/beryl
[06:47] <reggaemanu> the patchs to make libwnck compiz/beryl aware should really go to official ubuntu repo
[06:47] <DBO2> ill be back later tonight gnomefreak 
[06:47] <gnomefreak> ok but shouldnt that have been with JoelStanley here?
[06:47] <gnomefreak> DBO2: ok go for it
[06:48] <gnomefreak> i +1 lupine_85 idea if it is possible to add it in
[06:48] <mjg59> Oh
[06:48] <mjg59> No, we're not going to be including that gnome-session patch
[06:48] <mjg59> It's mad
[06:49] <mjg59> There has to be a better way to fix that
[06:49] <reggaemanu> mjg59, that's just a workaround yeah, anyway others distrib just disable the grab for everybody
[06:49] <lupine_85> it doesn't deal with normal KDE desktops properly, so I think it's not appropriate for official ubuntu
[06:49] <mjg59> reggaemanu: That would be one solution, yes. It would be preferable to find another one.
[06:49] <reggaemanu> mjg59, make the grab a gconf option by example ;)
[06:49] <mjg59> reggaemanu: Let's just make it work...
[06:50] <lupine_85> won't work for default dapper, though - kde 3.5.2
[06:50] <lupine_85> it#'s 3.5.4 I think
[06:50] <iXce> wow Matthew Garett is here :)
[06:50] <gnomefreak> iXce: he is
[06:50] <reggaemanu> :)
[06:50] <iXce> that's great :)
[06:51] <mjg59> The bug could do with a better description of what the problem actually is
[06:51] <gnomefreak> is gconf still in compiz in ubuntu repos?
[06:51] <mjg59> Yes
[06:51] <gnomefreak> k
[06:51] <reggaemanu> gnomefreak, yeah
[06:51] <reggaemanu> that's the last release before it has been removed
[06:52] <gnomefreak> would it be any benifit to just leave the compiz to ubuntus repos instead of opening Quinn_Storm's for it?
[06:53] <Quinn_Storm> gnomefreak: well, compiz-git is still such a moving target...and besides, for ubuntu, we're trying to move toward Beryl (at least that's the opinion I got from Mark)
[06:53] <mjg59> As Seb points out in that bug, setting LTSP_CLIENT will do what you want to do here in any csae
[06:53] <iXce> Quinn_Storm : even though beryl is full of "dirty" code and "hackish" workarounds? ^^
[06:54] <lupine_85> hehe
[06:54] <iXce> mjg59 : any hint on how to activate that LTSP thing please?
[06:54] <lupine_85> it will be if I start on it!
[06:54] <reggaemanu> ^^
[06:54] <gnomefreak> iXce: im sure cleaning up would be a requirment befor eubuntu takes it
[06:54] <mjg59> iXce: Just make sure that LTSP_CLIENT is set in your environment
[06:54] <mjg59> Putting it in .gnomerc should do
[06:54] <iXce> and if i've got no .gnomerc?
[06:54] <mjg59> iXce: Create one? :)
[06:54] <lupine_85> .bashrc? .xsession ?
[06:54] <mjg59> I believe it's used by default
[06:54] <gnomefreak> compiz will have to stay around for a while anyway
[06:55] <iXce> mjg59 : great idea :p
[06:55] <iXce> gnomefreak : that's already one of the main goals of beryl
[06:55] <mjg59> In the end, it's likely that we'll go with whichever solution works best
[06:55] <iXce> documentation, debugging, code cleanup, usability ^^
[06:55] <Xnix> iXce what do you mean?
[06:55] <reggaemanu> so that's pretty like the hackish gandalfn patch, we have to put a line in .gnomerc
[06:55] <Xnix> iXce ahh k
[06:56] <mjg59> That's not really going to be a decision we make before part-way through the Edgy+1 cycle
[06:56] <mjg59> Mark's quite clearly keen on whatever gives us the most bling possible, but we'll see what's most effective for our users by then
[06:56] <mjg59> Bling's not going to come at the expense of reliability
[06:57] <gnomefreak> if we add beryl to ubuntu repos in future is it possible to get a login option in gdm/kdm/xdm?
[06:57] <Quinn_Storm> what he seems to like is the community aspect...he's not big on davidr's development model
[06:57] <iXce> mjg59 : i fully agree with that :)
[06:57] <reggaemanu> gnomefreak, that should be possible
[06:58] <gnomefreak> reggaemanu: that way people without much hacking can log in and out
[06:58] <reggaemanu> gnomefreak, we can also update gnome-wm to prefer beryl if composite is available and use metacity if not
[06:58] <gnomefreak> k
[06:58] <reggaemanu> that's what i use currently, and that's what it is done on suse
[06:58] <mjg59> So why doesn't gnome-session just check whether the compositing manager selection atom is set?
[06:59] <mjg59> That would seem the sensible thing to do
[06:59] <iXce> +1
[06:59] <gnomefreak> i agree also
[06:59] <reggaemanu> mjg59, on suse gnome-session is patched for that
[06:59] <mjg59> reggaemanu: Ok. Can you point me at the patch?
[06:59] <reggaemanu> it checks for the tfp extension
[06:59] <reggaemanu> mjg59, yeah, 2 seconds
[06:59] <mjg59> reggaemanu: Thanks
[06:59] <mjg59> I'd rather have functionality depend on what's running, rather than a user-set environment variable
[07:00] <iXce> that's much more sensible :)
[07:00] <Xnix> yes
[07:00] <reggaemanu> i don't find where it was, i will jst upload them somewhere
[07:01] <gnomefreak> Camus_SoNiCo: i can get up with dbo and others and get a mail out to the ML on how to contribute/develop and who to talk to about it if people are willing to help
[07:02] <Camus_SoNiCo> gnomefreak, that will do for me but i think we should have wiki pages also
[07:02] <gnomefreak> Camus_SoNiCo: even motu can help you with packaging if that is what you really want help with
[07:02] <gnomefreak> Camus_SoNiCo: we will
[07:02] <iXce> hmm
[07:02] <mjg59> Ok
[07:02] <mjg59> By the way:
[07:02] <gnomefreak> Camus_SoNiCo: alot of wiki's will be poping up
[07:02] <iXce> is there a skilled web designer/programmer willing to help with beryl page?
[07:03] <mjg59> I'm not ideally suited to deal with bugs in compiz/beryl themselves
[07:03] <mjg59> But
[07:03] <Camus_SoNiCo> gnomefreak, great then
[07:03] <Xnix> wiki sounds good Camus_SoNiCo 
[07:03] <Xnix> gnomefreak awesome (abouth the wikis)
[07:03] <mjg59> If people have issues with the integration of these packages with other packages in main, feel free to talk to me
[07:03] <lupine_85> one question - currently the unofficial beryl thread (in Edgy) is full of <random-hack-to-get-beryl-working-with-whatever>... is there any sane way to get some of them dealt with automagically?
[07:03] <mjg59> Like this gnome-session issue, for example
[07:03] <mjg59> Oh, yeah, while I'm at it
[07:03] <lupine_85> e.g. in #ubuntu-xgl ust now, someone missed out enabling the composite extension
[07:04] <reggaemanu> mjg59, here are all the patchs related to compiz/xgl they use, and the .src.rpm for gnome-session if you want to see the specs http://www.compiz.info/.gnome-session/
[07:04] <Camus_SoNiCo> Xnix, i think wikis can attract "isolated" devs...
[07:04] <Xnix> yeah
[07:05] <mjg59> reggaemanu: Ok, they don't seem to be doing this the way I want to do it
[07:05] <mjg59> Give me a minute and I'll test
[07:05] <mjg59> Does the new nvidia stuff need --strict-binding?
[07:06] <lupine_85> mjg59: where would I check that? I've never *Set* it...
[07:06] <gnomefreak> lupine_85: i dont know but if so soon is good (i have added a crap load of stuff to xorg.conf to get it working
[07:06] <iXce> oh yeah, about packaging, aceracer24 was ok to deal with amd64 packages
[07:06] <reggaemanu> mjg59, no that work with or without --strict-binding
[07:07] <mjg59> Ok
[07:07] <mjg59> So why does --indirect not imply --strict-binding?
[07:08] <lupine_85> it's stuff like setting composite "true" | composite "0" for nvidia | fglrx that i'm thinking of... people generally expect packages to do all the hard work for them ;)
[07:08] <mjg59> If you've got free drivers, you don't need to edit anything in xorg.conf
[07:08] <Xnix> yeah
[07:08] <iXce> mjg59 : even for intel chips?
[07:08] <mjg59> It would be nice if the proprietary vendors would deal with that
[07:08] <mjg59> iXce: That's what I use
[07:09] <iXce> oh :)
[07:09] <iXce> no XAAOffscreenPixmap then?
[07:09] <reggaemanu> lupine_85, composite is set to true by default now, and that works for nvidia/ati/intel aiglx/xgl/xorg so there's no need to change that
[07:09] <mjg59> iXce: That's handled magically
[07:10] <lupine_85> oh, right... I must be out of date ;)
[07:10] <iXce> great :)
[07:10] <Xnix> lupine_85 edgy?
[07:10] <lupine_85> yes
[07:10] <lupine_85> I meant in the knowledge stakes though
[07:10] <rodarvus> XAAOffscreenPixmap is handled automatically since version 1.6.1 (?) of the i810 driver
[07:10] <Xnix> hmm strange, mine was set by default
[07:10] <Xnix> lupine_85 ahh
[07:10] <lupine_85> but doesn't fglrx need it off?
[07:10] <lupine_85> erm, ignore me. 0=true, of course
[07:10] <mjg59> It's done in the X server
[07:11] <mjg59> Through a foul hack
[07:11] <reggaemanu> maybe we will have a good free nvidia driver soon :) ("nouveau" driver)
[07:11] <Xnix> alright i gotta head out guys, class over :P later
[07:12] <reggaemanu> i gotta buy cigarettes and eat something, see you after
[07:14] <iXce> cigarette killed everyone ^^
[07:14] <rodarvus> mjg59, ahn, you added this patch on 1:1.1.1-0ubuntu8
[07:15] <mjg59> rodarvus: Yeah
[07:15] <ThiefOfBaghdad> Err.. am i late for the u-d-e meeting
[07:15] <rodarvus> (I was under the impression this was turned on by default on the intel driver recently, though)
[07:15] <gnomefreak> @schedule
[07:15] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: Current meeting: Ubuntu Desktop Effects Team | 03 Oct 17:00: Community Council | 04 Oct 12:00: Edubuntu | 05 Oct 07:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Oct 20:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 20:00: Edubuntu
[07:16] <tuxmaniac> clear
[07:16] <tuxmaniac> bah.. terminal
[07:16] <tuxmaniac> gnomefreak> hi. is it still on?
[07:17] <gnomefreak> ok i gotta go i will send DBO notes and we will see where we are
[07:17] <tuxmaniac> gnomefreak> ok. good
[07:17] <iXce> not so much notes ^^
[07:18] <tuxmaniac> :(
[07:18] <gnomefreak> iXce: i have a few notes :)
[07:18] <iXce> :)
[07:18] <tuxmaniac> gnomefreak> one small question
[07:18] <gnomefreak> tuxmaniac: yes?
[07:18] <tuxmaniac> Can the IRC Channel be changed to ubuntu-desktop-effects
[07:18] <tuxmaniac> rather than having it as ubuntu-xgl
[07:18] <tuxmaniac> was this discussed?
[07:19] <tuxmaniac> I mean ubuntu-xgl does not (atleast by name) consider the other ones that are around
[07:19] <tuxmaniac> Just a suggstion
[07:20] <gnomefreak> tuxmaniac: that is something ive been meaning to get up with DBO about there will be a post to the ML after i talk to him
[07:20] <tuxmaniac> gnomefreak> great!
[07:21] <iXce> what's the ml?
[07:21] <Quinn_Storm> I've gotta head out guys
[07:21] <tuxmaniac> iXce> Mailing list
[07:21] <iXce> i mean, where is it?
[07:21] <Quinn_Storm> sleeptime
[07:21] <iXce> tuxmaniac : yeah i know :)
[07:21] <iXce> night quinn
[07:21] <iXce> arg
[07:21] <tuxmaniac> iXce> :P
[07:21] <stgraber> iXce: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop-effects
[07:22] <tuxmaniac> stgraber> you are quicker than me :D
[07:22] <stgraber> :)
[07:22] <iXce> thanks
[07:22] <stgraber> np
[07:27] <heno> are we still on the agenda somewhere?
[07:29] <mjg59> For reference, I've got a patch to gnome-session that I'm happy with now
[07:31] <Laifen> re
[07:31] <iXce> hi Laifen 
[07:32] <Laifen> Hi iXce
[07:32] <heno> mjg59: any idea how complicated it would be to pump AT-SPI info into compiz? (to allow cursor tracking say)
[07:33] <heno> currently the magnifier seems fairly static
[07:33] <mjg59> I'm not really sure how that's meant to work
[07:34] <mjg59> Keith Packard talked about it for a while and then found some other shiny thing
[07:34] <heno> as in the fuctionality or the implementation?
[07:34] <heno> right
[07:34] <mjg59> I honestly can't remember how much functionality at-spi has in this respect
[07:34] <heno> is that who I should poke about it?
[07:34] <mjg59> It's worth asking him
[07:35] <heno> anyone on this team deep enough into the code to manage that?
[07:35] <heno> or anyone likely to be at Mountain View?
[07:36] <iXce> Quinn_Storm and onestone
[07:36] <heno> iXce: thanks I'll try them too
[07:37] <iXce> it's about beryl, right?
[07:37] <heno> iXce: any sort of accelerated graphics will do
[07:37] <heno> it's about making a better magnifier for visually impaired people
[07:38] <heno> Has anyone here tried gnome-mag?
[07:38] <heno> in gnopernicus or Orca
[07:38] <heno> You'll see that it's very inferior to the compiz magnifier
[07:38] <heno> on performance
[07:39] <heno> But has a few crucial features
[07:39] <heno> see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Specs/compiz-mag for more info
[07:43] <mjg59> reggaemanu: Uploaded
[07:45] <reggaemanu> mjg59, gnome-session patched? :)
[07:45] <mjg59> Yes
[07:45] <reggaemanu> cool
[07:45] <givr1> mjg59: great
[07:46] <reggaemanu> there is still libwnck and add the java patch to xgl-xserver :p
[07:46] <reggaemanu> ^^
[07:47] <mjg59> I thought we didn't have a working patch for libwnck yet?
[07:47] <reggaemanu> we have
[07:47] <reggaemanu> there is already a patched package in xgl.compiz.info repo
[07:47] <reggaemanu> but i have to repackage every time there is an update in ubuntu's repo, that's pretty boring
[07:48] <mjg59> reggaemanu: Didn't somebody say something about it not working properly in some cases?
[07:48] <mjg59> And can you point me to the bug/patch?
[07:48] <reggaemanu> mjg59, www.compiz.info/patches/libwnck
[07:48] <reggaemanu> and no there is definitively no problem
[07:49] <mjg59> reggaemanu: Those patches are large and undocumented
[07:49] <reggaemanu> it change nothing for non compiz users
[07:49] <mjg59> Have you got a pointer to the bug discussing the issue and why each of those is required?
[07:50] <reggaemanu> mjg59, the above patch fix the on top menu entry for compiz (by default it is greyd since libwnck don't have a above hint)
[07:51] <reggaemanu> mjg59, viewport add viewport entries like workspaces ones with metacity
[07:51] <reggaemanu> window move is needed for the viewport patch
[07:51] <mjg59> reggaemanu: Wait. Why do we need viewport support?
[07:51] <iXce> mjg59 : because the so-great davidr choosed that :/
[07:52] <mjg59> I'm not going to be responsible for reintroducing this distinction into wnck
[07:52] <mjg59> We have desktops.
[07:52] <reggaemanu> mjg59, compiz/beryl don't have workspace, it is vewports (as in freedesktop specs)
[07:52] <mjg59> What's the difference between desktops and viewports?
[07:52] <reggaemanu> a workspace can contain many viewports
[07:53] <mjg59> Will this ever actually happen?
[07:53] <mjg59> I mean, will anyone we actually care about ever have a setup where there's a meaningful distinction between the two?
[07:54] <reggaemanu> compiz use only one workspace with many viewport, like it should be (e.g. freedesktop specs), metacity and kde don't follow fdo specs
[07:54] <mjg59> No, that doesn't answer my question
[07:54] <mjg59> Is there any situation in which a user is going to have both workspaces and viewports?
[07:54] <mjg59> (As in, more than one of each)
[07:55] <reggaemanu> we don't care about the distinction, the fact is that with compiz, there is no entry to move the window on another workspace/viewport since it handle only workspace and there is only one workspace
[07:55] <mjg59> So remove all references in user-visible strings to "viewport" and replace them with "workspace"
[07:55] <mjg59> "Viewport" is an utterly meaningless term to users
[07:56] <lupine_85> the distinction is important if you run KDE :(
[07:56] <mjg59> Oh argh.
[07:57] <lupine_85> standard kicker works with workspaces, not viewports
[07:57] <mjg59> Ok. I am not uploading anything that will make the term "viewport" appear in the UI.
[07:57] <lupine_85> sensible :). meant nothing to me until I looked it up
[07:58] <mjg59> So the distinction is that a workspace is a logically distinct thing, and viewports are segregated on-screen areas of a workspace. Windows can overlap different viewports, but not workspaces.
[07:58] <mjg59> Is that right?
[07:59] <reggaemanu> mjg59, the original threads where david reveman have post theses patch http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/compiz/2006-April/000117.html
[07:59] <reggaemanu> (those i have sent to you are the originals ones ported to libwnck 2.16, except the apperance patch that replace the opacity one, more complete)
[07:59] <mjg59> Ridiculous hatred
[08:00] <mjg59> What does the appearance one actually do?
[08:00] <mjg59> Set opacity with wnck?
[08:01] <mjg59> Neat toy. So not getting in :)
[08:01] <iXce> appearance is for opacity, saturation and brightness i think
[08:01] <reggaemanu> mjg59, it add this menu entrie if the wm support the opacity hint ://static.flickr.com/65/199540689_00b3dfbb74.jpg
[08:02] <reggaemanu> http://static.flickr.com/65/199540689_00b3dfbb74.jp
[08:02] <reggaemanu> erf
[08:02] <reggaemanu> http://static.flickr.com/65/199540689_00b3dfbb74.jpg
[08:02] <reggaemanu> _
[08:03] <mjg59> Ok
[08:03] <mjg59> I'm reasonably happy with most of them other than the appearance one
[08:04] <mjg59> I'll see if I can sneak them in
[08:05] <reggaemanu> there is an opened bug (by a libwnck dev) on bugzilla.gnome.org about these patchs but there is no reply
[08:05] <reggaemanu> that should be great, although if you don't add the apperance patch people will continu to use the non official package :)
[08:05] <reggaemanu> everybody use it since before dapper
[08:06] <reggaemanu> and i'm tired to re-package it everytime
[08:07] <reggaemanu> it's not a really important patch that's true
[08:07] <reggaemanu> but users like that :/
[08:07] <reggaemanu> anyway, i'm gotta eat, be back later
[08:38] <Xnix> reggaemanu so edgy gnome-sessios shold be patched now?
[08:38] <mjg59> Xnix: Yes
[08:39] <Xnix> mjg59 awesome :D
[08:39] <Xnix> and those libwnck except the appearance one? or not yet
[08:40] <mjg59> Not yet
[08:40] <Xnix> alright
[08:41] <Xnix> thanks