[12:18] <LaserJock> hi cbx33 
[12:19] <ubuntu> hello folks
[12:20] <ubuntu> 3 tries of fresh beta install, 3 different set of problems
[12:20] <ubuntu> first: installations breaks on broken cups package
[12:20] <ubuntu> second: the user isn't created
[12:20] <ubuntu> third: no X && GDM existance
[12:21] <LaserJock> heh, fun
[12:21] <cbx33> hey LaserJock 
[12:22] <ubuntu> LaserJock: indeed, fun :)
[12:22] <LaserJock> I think perhaps 1) is  a known thing perhaps
[12:22] <cbx33> LaserJock, I just managed to get CounterStrike Source running on linux ;)
[12:22] <LaserJock> heh, good for you
[12:22] <ubuntu> LaserJock: I think 1) was supposed to be fixed :P
[12:23] <ubuntu> LaserJock: and howcome on second and third try it didn't happen? :P
[12:23] <LaserJock> I've been spending the day avoiding a nervous breakdown ;-)
[12:23] <cbx33> whaaa>?
[12:23] <cbx33> y?
[12:23] <LaserJock> ubuntu: not sure, odd
[12:24] <LaserJock> cbx33: oh, the usual. Very tired today, plus lots and lots of "stuff"
[12:26] <cbx33> yeh?
[12:26] <cbx33> server still doing good?
[12:26] <LaserJock> I think so
[12:27] <LaserJock> ubuntu: ask #ubuntu+1
[12:27] <LaserJock> I really don't know
[12:27] <ubuntu> this is edubuntu :P
[12:27] <LaserJock> sure
[12:27] <ubuntu> ahm, oki 
[12:27] <LaserJock> but the installation is the same
[12:28] <LaserJock> pretty much
[12:28] <LaserJock> I don't think you're issues are edubuntu specific
[12:28] <ubuntu> will do
[12:49] <cbx33> LaserJock, sorry dude I'm here now
[12:49] <cbx33> howz it all going
[12:51] <glasswalkertheur> hello all
[12:53] <glasswalkertheur> I am having lockup problems, now on lots of apps (poor trouble shooting I think)
[12:53] <glasswalkertheur> A friend mentioned via chipset problems, anyone have any ideas?
[01:00] <glasswalkertheur> possible via chipset problem
[01:01] <LaserJock> glasswalkertheur: you could check launchpad to see if a bug has been filed about it
[01:01] <glasswalkertheur> how would I do that
[01:01] <LaserJock> http://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bugs
[01:02] <glasswalkertheur> thanks, I will take a look
[01:03] <glasswalkertheur> is their any way to identify the actual chipset, w/o firing up BartPE?
[01:03] <LaserJock> lspci?
[01:03] <glasswalkertheur> cosole app?
[01:03] <LaserJock> yeah
[01:04] <glasswalkertheur> console :-)
[01:04] <glasswalkertheur> worked great, many thanks
[03:51] <axl000> where is mhz??
[03:53] <LaserJock> not here apparently
[03:53] <LaserJock> :/
[03:54] <cafuego> axl000: All 2000 of them are currently in my PC.
[04:05] <axl000> hola mhz
[04:05] <axl000> estaba preguntndo por ti
[04:14] <axl000> mhz?
[05:06] <mhz> ooops
[05:06] <mhz> re
[06:33] <P3L|C4N0> greetings
[09:22] <HedgeMage> hi Burgundavia 
[09:38] <pygi> eh, this was bad
[09:38] <HedgeMage> what was?
[09:38] <pygi> HedgeMage: using beta install cd
[09:39] <HedgeMage> ahh
[09:40] <pygi> it isn't usable
[09:41] <LaserJock> I just upgraded tonight
[09:42] <pygi> LaserJock: I tried doing fresh installation from beta install cd
[10:53] <HedgeMage> Guess not.
[10:54] <pygi> HedgeMage: you read the post? :)
[10:54] <pygi> morning all
[10:54] <HedgeMage> What post?
[10:55] <pygi> HedgeMage: the one on planet I told you to read? :P
[10:56] <HedgeMage> reading now... it's hard to read because it's missing a couple of newlines
[10:57] <HedgeMage> ahh, cool... good of you to mention the Handbook stuff.
[10:59] <pygi> HedgeMage: :)
[10:59] <pygi> HedgeMage: yes, sorry about newlines, my fault again :P
[10:59] <HedgeMage> np
[11:00] <HedgeMage> probably wouldn't have bugged me if I weren't half asleep
[11:00] <pygi> hehe :) 
[11:04] <pygi> HedgeMage: monday very early morning I'm outta hear
[11:04] <pygi> here*
[11:04] <pygi> HedgeMage: you can try contacting me by mail. hopefully I'll visit some internet caffe's so I could respond to everyone
[11:05] <pygi> dunno how long before I'm done moving & with internet access
[11:11] <HedgeMage> understood
[11:11] <HedgeMage> good luck!
[11:12] <pygi> yay, thanks :)
[12:08] <LaserJock> umm, hi Pete
[12:22] <skwashd> hi all
[12:22] <skwashd> i decided to restart with using the edgy beta
[12:22] <skwashd> but i can't find the ppc live cd
[12:22] <skwashd> is there not meant to be done ?
[12:23] <lucasvo> skwashd: I think you can find it at archive.ubuntu.com/ubunt/ but I don't know the exact path.
[12:24] <lucasvo> no sorry
[12:25] <lucasvo> skwashd: I meant cdimage.ubuntu.com
[12:25] <skwashd> lucasvo: i couldn't find it there, on my ISP's mirror or releases.ubuntu.com
[12:26] <lucasvo> skwashd: I actually donn't seea beta at all.
[12:26] <lucasvo> are you sure it's already released?
[12:26] <skwashd> got a daily live
[12:26] <skwashd> http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily-live/current/
[12:26] <lucasvo> that's not bad 
[12:26] <skwashd> lucasvo: the others have been
[12:26] <lucasvo> I'd take this as well
[12:27] <skwashd> lucasvo: i suppose that will have to do then
[12:34] <juliux> hi lucasvo 
[12:41] <lucasvo> hi juliux 
[01:11] <ogra> skwashd, the ppc livecd was oversized (apparently still is) due to a bug with the archive software ... so we couldnt release it
[01:12] <ogra> it should still work if you use 800MB media or a DVD to brun it to
[01:12] <skwashd> ogra: larger than 700M ?
[01:12] <ogra> yes
[01:12] <skwashd> hmmm ok
[01:12] <skwashd> thanks
[01:12] <ogra> launchpad had (has) a hiccup :/
[01:12] <ogra> edgy-live-powerpc.iso         30-Sep-2006 00:58  744M 
[01:13] <ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily-live/20060928.1/ has the iso that *would* have been released without that big
[01:13] <ogra> *bug
[01:13] <ogra> its identical to the other betas
[01:14] <skwashd> ogra: ok ... i think i will wait for the size issue to be resolved then
[01:14] <ogra> do you actually need a live version ? the install CD is fine
[01:14] <ogra> http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/edgy/
[01:15] <skwashd> ogra: for doing a multi arch install
[01:15] <ogra> ah, right :/
[01:16] <skwashd> ogra: :)
[01:16] <skwashd> for now i think i will just go with xubuntu on the laptop
[01:56] <cbx33> what's the bug?
[01:56] <cbx33> ohi see
[01:56] <cbx33> archive software
[03:34] <Malcolm_> I'm using ubuntu at the moment, but I'm planning to set up one computer as a server and others as workstations(at least one development/web server, and one for educational and gaming purposes).  what're the advantages to edubuntu?  does edubuntu have everything ubuntu has?  and should I install all edubuntu or all but 1 ubuntu or kubuntu and 1 worksation /w edubuntu?
[03:35] <Kamping_Kaiser> edubuntu has ltsp out of the box, and more 'educational/kiddie' apps
[03:35] <Kamping_Kaiser> if those are advantages, there you go :)
[03:35] <Kamping_Kaiser> edubuntu doesnt have the same package selection as ubuntu
[04:03] <KeeN> ahoy
[04:04] <KeeN> hey
[04:06] <KeeN> I need help ... I just installed Ubuntu and I'm trying to configure my graphic card ...
[04:33] <bddebian> Howdy
[04:55] <highvoltage> howdy mr bddebian!
[04:56] <bddebian> Heya highvoltage
[04:58] <dibs> hello everyone
[04:59] <dibs> hi i'm new to linux and am currently doing my final year dissertation on open/free software for education
[05:01] <dibs> does anybody know how to get the root password
[05:02] <dibs> anyone here?
[05:04] <dibs> ?
[05:09] <highvoltage> egh. just missed dibs. I wish people were a bit more patient :)
[05:38] <pygi> highvoltage: ping, have a sec?
[05:39] <highvoltage> pygi: yep
[05:40] <highvoltage> if all goes well I'll have Internet at home again from Wednesday
[05:40] <highvoltage> that will make my life so, so much easier
[05:40] <pygi> highvoltage: do you know do we have to ship entire KDE language packs because of KDE-Edu?
[05:41] <pygi> highvoltage: or do we have them separated?
[05:41] <highvoltage> I don't know the exact details, I know that the language packs we do ship for the kde apps are bigger than the gnome ones
[05:42] <highvoltage> pygi: oh, sorry, I understand your question now, the anser is yes :)
[05:42] <highvoltage> it's because of KDE-edu
[05:43] <pygi> highvoltage: thank you :)
[05:43] <highvoltage> pygi: how is it going?
[05:44] <pygi> highvoltage: good and busy :) Preparing for moving :)
[05:44] <pygi> highvoltage: what about you?
[05:45] <highvoltage> going good. had a hectic week, was at an expo so didn't get to do much work
[05:45] <highvoltage> next week I'll be playing catchup again
[05:45] <pygi> nice :)
[05:45] <highvoltage> but things are getting more organised for me, so I'm glad
[05:45] <pygi> Let's see how I will go :) Dunno how long will I be without internet :P
[05:45] <highvoltage> there's less and less times where I have to get frustrated because of delays, etc
[05:46] <pygi> nice :)
[05:46] <highvoltage> pygi: well, I've been without internet at home for nearly a year now. IT SUX!
[05:46] <pygi> highvoltage: right, indeed
[05:46] <highvoltage> next week I'm getting a high-speed wireless connection, I can't wait :)
[05:46] <pygi> highvoltage: but being without internet in time for UDS and Hungarian conference is bad :P
[05:46] <pygi> RichEd-1: ping, could I grab you for a second?
[05:48] <highvoltage> i doubt he's there :)
[05:48] <pygi> right, ergh, dunno if I'm allowed to say something :)
[05:48] <pygi> ah, nevermind then :)
[05:55] <pygi> highvoltage: trying to write sensful mail to Anne-Marie
[05:55] <pygi> that is a joy :P
[06:00] <highvoltage> who is Anne-Marie?
[06:02] <lucasvo> !restrictedformats
[06:02] <ubotu> For multimedia issues, this page has useful information: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats  -  See also http://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/common-tasks-chap.html  -  But please use free formats if you can: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FreeFormats
[06:03] <pygi> highvoltage: founder of KDE-Edu :P
[06:03] <highvoltage> aaah :)
[06:08] <lucasvo> I wonder how she found out about Gallium
[06:09] <pygi> lucasvo: Gallium is not a secret
[06:09] <pygi> this is FOSS world
[06:10] <lucasvo> pygi: but for example google gives me only the launchpad hit
[06:10] <pygi> lucasvo: You would except KDE-Edu founder to be interested in Edubuntu ;)
[06:10] <lucasvo> pygi: what will you write? 
[06:10] <lucasvo> it won't be hard
[06:10] <pygi> lucasvo: I wrote it already
[06:11] <lucasvo> just got it while I was typing
[06:11] <pygi> it's a compromise beetween what I really wanted to write
[06:11] <pygi> I cannot talk about some things :)
[06:13] <lucasvo> pygi: you mean some sort of: Get real and becoma a gnome user. KDE s**** that's why we made gallium? ;)
[06:14] <highvoltage> I don't quite understand, why is there so much hostility against the creation of gallium?
[06:15] <lucasvo> highvoltage: usually I am also against creating things twice. but in this case, I don't see a better solution
[06:15] <lucasvo> it's a huge amount of work being done twice. which could also be invested in other edu apps
[06:16] <highvoltage> it's not as much as creating it from scracth though, since gallium will use the data from kalzium, so it's a very small part of the work that's being duplicated
[06:16] <lucasvo> highvoltage: keeping bug free, creating packages, making publicity... 
[06:17] <lucasvo> maintainaning the chemical data is not that big, since most of it is already well known and not in research anymore
[06:19] <Laser_away> gallium was metioned on planet by pygi
[06:20] <highvoltage> i think publicity and creating packages are minor compared to the CD space problem
[06:21] <highvoltage> I think in the end it comes down to is priorities
[06:21] <highvoltage> unforunately you always have to make some sacrifice
[06:21] <highvoltage> hi LaserJock 
[06:21] <LaserJock> highvoltage: I can understand the problem if you look at it as "Edubuntu ships KDEEdu, Edubuntu is also developing a GTK port of Kalzium"
[06:22] <LaserJock> but I don't feel like "Edubuntu" is developing Gallium
[06:22] <LaserJock> it's not speced
[06:22] <highvoltage> yep
[06:22] <highvoltage> LaserJock: you're developing it, right?
[06:22] <LaserJock> well, I started it
[06:22] <LaserJock> I haven't done any of the code yet
[06:22] <LaserJock> but I feel like I'm the guy in charge, I think ;-)
[06:23] <highvoltage> ok
[06:24] <LaserJock> I guess I'll send a reply
[06:24] <LaserJock> I kinda feel bad, because it's kinda like "Yeah, we want to drop KDE Edu
[06:26] <lucasvo> LaserJock: isn't that true?
[06:26] <LaserJock> yes, but that's not really nice to say to the KDEEdu founder
[06:27] <pygi> LaserJock: I haven't said we wanna drop KDE Edu
[06:27] <pygi> lucasvo: and no, ofcourse I dont think that everyone should become Gnome user
[06:27] <pygi> lucasvo: that kind of attitude sucks heavily dude
[06:28] <lucasvo> pygi: this is not my attitude however it's quite similar. 
[06:28] <LaserJock> but being able to drop KDEEdu *is* a part of why gallium was started
[06:28] <LaserJock> so I want to be careful
[06:28] <pygi> LaserJock: ups, you are right, might be that she saw my blog post where I mentioned Gallium
[06:28] <pygi> LaserJock: ah
[06:29] <lucasvo> pygi: Too bad gnome and kde do the same stuff and don't collaborate. I think it should be possible to develop something that pleases both users. 
[06:29] <lucasvo> pygi: so I think, one should merge them.
[06:29] <pygi> lucasvo: Free (libre) world is about a choice
[06:29] <lucasvo> pygi: yes.
[06:29] <pygi> we're don't want to become Windows!!
[06:29] <pygi> we*
[06:29] <lucasvo> pygi: how comes that still major distributions all look the same?
[06:30] <pygi> lucasvo: you don't how wrong you are
[06:30] <lucasvo> pygi: ?
[06:30] <lucasvo> pygi: I don't see much difference in fedora, suse and ubuntu
[06:30] <pygi> I do, a lot of difference
[06:30] <lucasvo> what? 
[06:30] <pygi> why aren't you part of fedora or suse community then?
[06:31] <pygi> why have you choosen the Ubuntu/Edubuntu?
[06:31] <lucasvo> because it used apt
[06:31] <pygi> lucasvo: do you know how & why Gnome was created?!
[06:31] <lucasvo> no
[06:31] <pygi> Because KDE was built on top of then propietarity (not free) QT
[06:31] <pygi> It was started to offer the user a freedom!
[06:32] <pygi> lucasvo: FYI, fedora & suse can also use apt
[06:32] <pygi> apt-rpm
[06:32] <lucasvo> so actually there is no reason anymore not to merge 
[06:32] <pygi> there are reasons!
[06:33] <lucasvo> pygi: that the community has different taste?
[06:33] <highvoltage> LaserJock: I think 'drop' is also a strong word
[06:33] <pygi> lucasvo: uh, you don't understand :-/
[06:33] <highvoltage> 'not included by default' is probably more accurate
[06:33] <lucasvo> highvoltage: not rely on it 
[06:33] <pygi> highvoltage: I believe if we had space on cd, we'd include anything we can :P
[06:33] <highvoltage> since it would still be just an apt-get install away
[06:33] <highvoltage> pygi: that's probably true
[06:34] <pygi> highvoltage: one partial solution probably might be separating lang packs just for apps we ship
[06:34] <pygi> if that is possible
[06:34] <lucasvo> pygi: what big difference is there (for the user, not the developer) between QT and GTK?
[06:35] <LaserJock> there was/is some speed differente, and the look is just different
[06:35] <pygi> lucasvo: but it's not about the toolkits
[06:35] <LaserJock> yes
[06:36] <lucasvo> pygi: starting by having one toolkit would make portability between gnome and kde much easier.
[06:37] <pygi> highvoltage: KDE-Edu and edubuntu
[06:37] <lucasvo> LaserJock: if that is your reason she'll say: Why didn't you just enhance kalzium?
[06:37] <pygi> the mail subject :)
[06:37] <highvoltage> pygi: read it :)
[06:37] <lucasvo> which is true
[06:37] <pygi> highvoltage: yay :)
[06:37] <highvoltage> well, it's a great way to work with a good upstream project
[06:37] <pygi> lucasvo: uh, uh, you have some fundamental thinking errors
[06:37] <pygi> about F/OSS world
[06:38] <lucasvo> I wouldn't call it errors.
[06:38] <LaserJock> lucasvo: because I want a GTK port of Kalzium, not kalzium
[06:39] <highvoltage> lucasvo: there are many others that feel the same
[06:39] <LaserJock> pygi and lucasvo: let's keep it civil
[06:39] <pygi> LaserJock: yes, I'll stop :)
[06:39] <highvoltage> lucasvo: we've come under fire in tuxlabs a bit for running kalzium on Xfce in tuXlabs
[06:39] <lucasvo> highvoltage: I lost track, feel the same than what?
[06:40] <highvoltage> people tell us it's inefficient to run apps that require different frameworks, wasting memory and resources
[06:40] <LaserJock> yeah
[06:40] <highvoltage> lucasvo: people who want a GTK port of Kalzium
[06:40] <LaserJock> it's not *only* a disk space issue
[06:40] <highvoltage> lucasvo:don't get me wrong, I *love* the KDE-edu project, and I think we can support them whatever happens in the future
[06:41] <LaserJock> as highvoltage has said, running a KDE app in Gnome is slower and more memory intensive than running it in KDE
[06:41] <highvoltage> perhaps the Kubuntu team could even work on a edubuntu-kubuntu-desktop, that could include the kde-edu tools instead of edubnuntt(ehatever)-tools
[06:41] <lucasvo> kedubuntu?
[06:41] <highvoltage> perhaps
[06:42] <highvoltage> who kows?
[06:42] <highvoltage> perhaps we could even work on an edubuntu-add-on cd. I've been wanting to work on something like that for a while.
[06:42] <lucasvo> that sounds like a good idea
[06:42] <highvoltage> when I have my internet connection back next week, that would be possible again
[06:43] <lucasvo> highvoltage: however that "only" solves the space issue, not performance issue
[06:43] <highvoltage> that way you can make it easy for users to distribute kde-edu and it's libs, and even more additional tools that we'd like to see there.
[06:43] <lucasvo> btw, anyone contacted gperiodic and told them about gallium?
[06:43] <highvoltage> lucasvo: you're completely right, but it's at least a compromise and a temporary solution
[06:43] <lucasvo> highvoltage: of course it's not a bad idea. I'd like to have more edu software as well
[06:44] <lucasvo> mostly academic software, since edubuntu is not very useful for me anymore
[06:45] <pygi> lucasvo: is gperiodic developed anymore even?
[06:45] <lucasvo> pygi: don't think so
[06:45] <lucasvo> 1.3.3 Fri Jan 18 10:34:38 EST 2002
[06:45] <lucasvo> last changelog entry
[06:45] <pygi> lucasvo: that's why I asked
[06:46] <lucasvo> pygi: but having the owner put a link onto the page that one should use gallium since it's more up to date would be nice
[06:47] <LaserJock> gperiodic is basically dead and I looked at the code
[06:48] <LaserJock> It's written in C and has a bad storage format for the data
[07:00] <LaserJock> umm
[07:00] <LaserJock> did somebody forward an email to ?
[07:00] <LaserJock> me
[07:05] <highvoltage> LaserJock: I don't know. we don't have access to your inbox :p
[07:06] <LaserJock> well, I just all of a sudden got an email about gallium
[07:10] <highvoltage> ah, from ogra?
[07:10] <LaserJock> no
[07:10] <LaserJock> apparently pygi started more then he intended
[07:11] <LaserJock> gallium is not a thread topic
[07:11] <LaserJock> as "hidden" port of Kalzium
[07:11] <LaserJock> http://cniehaus.livejournal.com/
[07:13] <nixternal> somebody offered me $25 for an Edubuntu CD today
[07:13] <LaserJock> http://cniehaus.livejournal.com/
[07:13] <highvoltage> nixternal: wow!
[07:13] <nixternal> I had told a couple of people about Ubuntu, and they were teachers, so I brought up Edubuntu, and I pulled a CD from my trusty bag, and I had them, hook-line-and-sinker
[07:14] <LaserJock> http://hardly.cubic.uni-koeln.de/pipermail/blue-obelisk/2006-September/000862.html
[07:14] <highvoltage> nixternal: our local lug had a stand at a big local show this week, and people had a tough time believeing that we didn't want to sell them stuff :)
[07:14] <nixternal> The lady asked, how much do  those go for, after I explained "Free"...so i did a salesman, "well...ummm.."
[07:14] <nixternal> and she goes, I will give you $25
[07:14] <nixternal> I said, $25 is to low, way to low
[07:14] <nixternal> but I will give you a few for free ;)
[07:15] <nixternal> i either have a couple new possible clients, or dates
[07:15] <nixternal> don't know yet
[07:15] <highvoltage> hmmm... so is blue obelisk essentially the same as gallium in concept?
[07:15] <nixternal> highvoltage: that rocks right there...we did the same and got the same reaction...so we started selling the CDs for $1 each, and donated to a Children's fund
[07:17] <highvoltage> nixternal: we sold some ubuntu cd's that we made ourselves (shipit couldn't get it here in time) for R10 (about US$2) and we're going to make t-shirts for everyone that volunteered on the stand
[07:17] <nixternal> ooh...you know what...that isn't that bad of an idea...i ahve the entire Ubuntu Chicago team hounding me for t-shirts
[07:17] <highvoltage> heh :)
[07:18] <nixternal> i can get nice embroidered Ubuntu Chicago Polo shirts displaying all 4 logos for $18/ea
[07:18] <nixternal> awesome work...this lady did the shirts for a company i used to own when we did a golf outing
[07:18] <highvoltage> sounds cool
[07:18] <nixternal> I need about 50 ;(
[07:18] <nixternal> thats a lot of CDs at $1
[07:18] <LaserJock> arrrggg
[07:19] <highvoltage> our t-shirts are simple blue golf shirts with the CLUG logo on... I think I can find a pic somewere...
[07:19] <nixternal> LaserJock: it is saturday, you better be with the wife, otherwise i think you will need to redecorate that dog-house
[07:19] <LaserJock> she's here and sick still :/
[07:19] <nixternal> you better tend to her then ;)
[07:20] <highvoltage> http://photos.jonathancarter.co.za/futurex2006/pict0196 <--- that's about the only one that I have
[07:20] <LaserJock> but this stupid gallium thing is going to give me a headache today :(
[07:20] <highvoltage> still have to upload the good photos I took :)
[07:20] <nixternal> now that would actually work right there
[07:20] <highvoltage> LaserJock: in free software, whenever you're going to take on something worth while you're ultimately going to make some people angry
[07:21] <highvoltage> LaserJock: don't let some dumb comments get to you, gallium is a good idea
[07:21] <LaserJock> oh freaking heck
[07:22] <LaserJock> http://cniehaus.livejournal.com/27154.html#comments
[07:22] <nixternal> ahhh, talking about the kde-edu comments i take it
[07:22] <LaserJock> no, I got an email, a few actually
[07:22] <LaserJock> a little "WTF are you doing?"
[07:23] <highvoltage> geez
[07:23] <LaserJock> all from one sentence on planet.ubuntu.com
[07:23] <nixternal> ouch..i never seen that post right there
[07:23] <highvoltage> well, that's being uncollaborative, and not in line with any kind of good CoC
[07:24] <nixternal> i can understand the frustration though, i mean we work hand in hand with debian, and most of the time with the WM's as well
[07:24] <LaserJock> well, they don't have any facts
[07:24] <LaserJock> they didn't ask me or any gallium dev
[07:25] <LaserJock> we are not writing it from scratch
[07:25] <highvoltage> geez, some people we really nasty
[07:26] <highvoltage> the anger that powers those blog comments aren't backed by facts either
[07:26] <LaserJock> well, there aren't any facts
[07:26] <highvoltage> they even call canonical evil. what's so evil about them? they're just another random company.
[07:26] <LaserJock> we haven't even published any code
[07:26] <LaserJock> all we have is an LP page
[07:28] <highvoltage> they seem to have gfound some code on cbx33's website
[07:29] <highvoltage> (gfound being a very strange typo in this case :) )
[07:29] <LaserJock> argg
[07:30] <LaserJock> they went trolling around for stuff, they took a lot of effort
[07:34] <nixternal> you know, that started off as a legit "grief" they had, over soemthing they really hadn't researched, which we know is stupid for one...and second, all it takes is for one idiot to start an anti-ubuntu/canonical flame war...jealous people are ignorant ;)
[07:34] <LaserJock> I don't even know where to begin
[07:38] <nixternal> truthfully, i wouldn't respond to the blog
[07:38] <nixternal> i would do it the professional way, as that blog is loaded with "nonsense" from people to scared to let the world know who they are
[07:38] <LaserJock> well, I just added myself to planet.u.c so maybe I could start a blog war ;-)
[07:39] <nixternal> if you are going to complain about something. let us know who you are, so we can contact you and talk it over
[07:39] <highvoltage> hehe
[07:39] <LaserJock> nixternal: I'm not so worried about the blog as the 2 mailing lists it's on right now
[07:39] <nixternal> thats the saem as someone who complains about the government, and then during elections, they don't vote
[07:39] <nixternal> i seen it ont he dev list earlier
[07:39] <highvoltage> Anne-Marie did the decent thing, at least
[07:39] <highvoltage> I think it was big of here to send that message to edubuntu-devel
[07:40] <highvoltage> perhaps it's better to work with her as the leader instead, she can deal with all the kde-edut minions who are misbehaving.
[07:40] <nixternal> watch that tone of voice towards KDE*
[07:40] <nixternal> ;)
[07:40] <highvoltage> I meant it in the kindest possible way :)
[07:40] <nixternal> im off the leash today
[07:41] <nixternal> hehe
[07:41] <nixternal> i do however have a new saying for gnome users and c++
[07:41] <nixternal> lol
[07:42] <LaserJock> well, the blog was from the Kalzium author
[07:43] <LaserJock> and there is a Blue Obelisk thread
[07:43] <LaserJock> where the emailed the author of another project called gallium
[07:44] <LaserJock> I've never heard of Blue Obelisk and they are mad at me for not joining their organization
[07:44] <highvoltage> LaserJock: I can't find that blog entry
[07:44] <highvoltage> LaserJock: do you have a link for me?
[07:44] <highvoltage> I can't find it on laserjock.us
[07:44] <LaserJock> what?
[07:44] <LaserJock> I haven't done anything on laserjock.us
[07:44] <LaserJock> I just woke up
[07:44] <LaserJock> to this
[07:45] <highvoltage> ah ok. where i the blog entry where you said something about galium?
[07:45] <LaserJock> I didn't
[07:45] <highvoltage> aah, I see
[07:45] <highvoltage> ok, I thought this was sparked by a blog entry of yours.
[07:45] <LaserJock> pygi had *1* sentence about it on planet.u.c
[07:45] <highvoltage> geez, then the kde-edu people are even more touchy than I though
[07:45] <highvoltage> *thought
[07:46] <LaserJock> "ravis, Pete, and some more people started their work on Gallium, replacement for Kalzium, and we can already see some usable results."
[07:46] <highvoltage> Just found it :)
[07:47] <highvoltage> i think he should perhaps have said 'developing a GTK front-end to kalzium', instead of using the word 'replacement'
[07:47] <LaserJock> yes
[07:47] <highvoltage> people get touchy when they hear that word :)
[07:47] <LaserJock> but that's all it took
[07:47] <highvoltage> hectic
[07:47] <LaserJock> the thing is, I think I'm the one in Edubuntu that likes KDE the most
[07:48] <highvoltage> I might be second or third
[07:48] <highvoltage> I like KDE a lot, but not to the degree that I'm on any level passionate enough to fight for it
[07:49] <LaserJock> I have no problem with it and I'm very impressed with Kalzium
[07:49] <highvoltage> everytime the kalzium issue comes up, people in edubuntu have acknowledged hoe great kde and kalzium is.
[07:50] <highvoltage> even ogra, who isn't a fan of KDE, acknowledged the achievements of Kalzium and talked about all the awards that it has won, etc.
[07:50] <LaserJock> I just wanted to have an app in Gnome to be maybe as good
[08:04] <LaserJock> oh man, I actuall read the blog comments
[08:04] <LaserJock> I totally just want to cry right now
[08:04] <pygi> bleh, now go ahead and attack me for mentioning gallium :)
[08:06] <pygi> LaserJock: what comments? /me doesn't see any comments
[08:08] <nixternal> i will fight for KDE ;)
[08:08] <nixternal> I say we have a GNOME vs. KDE Wrestlemania!
[08:08] <nixternal> actually, that is a bad idea, i recently seen an image of the KDE hackers, and it was quite scary
[08:09] <LaserJock> pygi: I don't blame you. It was a pretty innocent comment.
[08:09] <LaserJock> pygi: http://cniehaus.livejournal.com/27154.html#comments
[08:10] <nixternal> ya, pygi isn't to blame at all, they took everything out of context in the blog, and instead of contacting us, they decided to start a flame war..more than likely just a feeble attempt to get people to visit their blog
[08:10] <pygi> LaserJock: bleh, won't even read that. I hate that Gnome VS. KDE stuff
[08:10] <pygi> I develop for both platforms, so what, go ahead and kill me now :P
[08:10] <nixternal> it seems that, that is the intention of many of these types of blog posts in the first place..if i can get you to visit my site and get upset about something with ubuntu, I have won, because you will keep checking back to see the comments
[08:11] <LaserJock> well, I wouldn't bother if it was just some guy
[08:11] <LaserJock> but that's *the* Kalzium developer
[08:11] <pygi> whatever, lemme comment
[08:12] <LaserJock> pygi: tbh, I'd rather you stay low, if you don't mind. It's not your project and you didn't do anything wrong
[08:12] <nixternal> Edubuntu-folks prefere to rewrite Kalzium from scratch instead of packaging Kalzium.
[08:13] <nixternal> so, this version of kalzium on my machine, how did it get there?  if we didn't package it?
[08:13] <pygi> LaserJock: but this was my mess
[08:14] <nixternal> alrighty all...i need to get a life and back away from the keyboard for a little while
[08:14] <nixternal> i shall return later to devulge in my life as a Kubuntu & Edubuntu junky!
[08:14] <nixternal> ttyl
[08:16] <pygi> LaserJock: so should probably be my responsability to clean it up
[08:16] <pygi> LaserJock: but ok, will stop
[08:17] <LaserJock> pygi: well, it's really my mess
[08:17] <LaserJock> you just helped ;-)
[08:17] <pygi> LaserJock: heh, thanks for comforting me
[08:17] <pygi> :P
[08:18] <LaserJock> well
[08:18] <LaserJock> I guess so
[08:18] <LaserJock> I'm writing edubuntu-devel now
[08:18] <LaserJock> hopefully clarify that one
[08:18] <LaserJock> and then I'll email this Blue Obelisk group
[08:19] <LaserJock> and leave the blog alone, although it has a huge amount of misinformation
[08:19] <pygi> LaserJock: please cc me if possible
[08:19] <LaserJock> pygi: ok, I probably won't on edubuntu-devel since I assume you get it ;-)
[08:20] <pygi> LaserJock: right
[08:23] <pygi> this is particulary idiotic:
[08:23] <pygi> The guys who started that project seem to be religious butt heads that are living in their small narrow world (like the maintainer of Edubuntu whom I know personally).
[08:23] <pygi> I mean wth?!
[08:26] <highvoltage> ogra definately doesn't live in a narrow little world
[08:26] <highvoltage> neither does anyone else I can think of in Edubuntu
[08:26] <LaserJock> yeah, can you imagine seb128 adding KDE-Edu to Ubuntu? ;-)
[08:27] <highvoltage> :)
[08:30] <Amaranth> I seem to remember the whole point of gallium being getting rid of the massive i18n packages pulled in for a few small apps
[08:31] <LaserJock> *cough*
[08:32] <LaserJock> well, for me it was a little more lofty goal
[08:32] <highvoltage> lofty?
[08:32] <LaserJock> I find Gnome sorely lacking in educational apps
[08:32] <LaserJock> we can speak some decent English... if we want to
[08:33] <highvoltage> hehe :)
[08:34] <LaserJock> ok, edubuntu-devel email sent
[08:34] <LaserJock> on to Blue Obelisk
[08:35] <LaserJock> I feel bad because they sent those emails to the other gallium project
[08:35] <pygi> LaserJock: uhm, really? :-/
[08:36] <LaserJock> yeah, I found out after I made the LP product that there is a gallium project for a Carbon emulator
[08:36] <LaserJock> which is soooo totally different then our project that I didn't think it'd be a big problem
[08:36] <pygi> o joy
[08:36] <LaserJock> but apparently they didn't read the project homepage before the blasted email to the poor guy
[08:37] <LaserJock> no, dude, really
[08:37] <pygi> ah, well, two months without internet should settle everything :P
[08:37] <LaserJock> in a way it's good to have this now
[08:37] <LaserJock> rather then when we actually *had* a release :-)
[08:38] <Amaranth> The other gallium project is dead
[08:38] <Amaranth> starting in 01 and has no code available
[08:39] <pygi> Amaranth: some guy in comments is talking about some personal branch or whateva
[08:39] <pygi> http://www.progbox.co.uk/gallium/
[08:40] <Amaranth> that's my code
[08:40] <Amaranth> back later
[08:44] <pygi> will brb, soon hopefully
[08:48] <LaserJock> hmm
[08:51] <LaserJock> why isn't my email showing up :/
[08:55] <LaserJock> heh
[08:56] <cbx33> Hey Mr Late Night
[08:56] <jbrefort> LaserJock, I read carsten's blog and ca'nt understand why he is so agressive, he is much more kind usually
[08:57] <jbrefort> LaserJock, I'd like to have some discussion about Gallium with you, since the wiki page does not says a lot
[08:58] <cbx33> oooh gallium talk
[08:58] <LaserJock> jbrefort: let's go to #gallium
[08:58] <jbrefort> ok
[09:04] <highvoltage> hey cbx33 
[09:24] <littlepaul> ping ogra :)
[09:27] <littlepaul> hi mdz
[09:31] <LaserJock> Amaranth do you have a minut in #gallium?
[09:55] <pygi> hello from fresh beta installation :)
[09:56] <LaserJock> cool
[09:58] <pygi> LaserJock, care to point me again to that comment page?
[09:58] <LaserJock> do I have to? ;-)
[09:58] <LaserJock> I'm trying to stay calm ;-)
[09:58] <LaserJock> http://cniehaus.livejournal.com/27154.html#comments
[09:58] <pygi> not really, no :)
[09:59] <pygi> thanks
[10:21] <LaserJock> ok, well we sort of fixed that one
[10:46] <pygi> HedgeMage :)
[10:47] <HedgeMage> hi pygi 
[10:47] <HedgeMage> I thought you were moving?
[10:53] <pygi> HedgeMage, early Monday
[10:54] <HedgeMage> ahh okay
[10:56] <cbx333> hi all
[10:59] <pygi> hey cbx33 
[10:59] <cbx33> hey pygi
[11:00] <pygi> cbx33, auth yourself pls :P
[11:00] <cbx33> heard about gallium
[11:01] <HedgeMage> hi cbx33 
[11:02] <cbx33> hi hedgemage
[11:06] <LaserJock> hi cbx33 
[11:06] <LaserJock> cbx33: do you know c++?
[11:07] <cbx33> little
[11:08] <cbx33> and only in windows environment 
[11:08] <LaserJock> well, gallium is no more
[11:08] <LaserJock> we had a good talk
[11:09] <LaserJock> and the periodic table in gchemutils is more developed
[11:09] <cbx33> ok, i'll delete my repo
[11:09] <LaserJock> and is pretty well established in the chemistry software world
[11:09] <LaserJock> I do think we should continue working on this idea though
[11:10] <cbx33> why didn't we know about it?
[11:10] <LaserJock> well
[11:10] <LaserJock> I knew of gchemutils
[11:10] <LaserJock> but I didn't know they had a full periodic table
[11:10] <LaserJock> and they've had a hard time getting it in the repos
[11:10] <cbx33> in what way continue
[11:11] <LaserJock> because of various deps, etc.
[11:11] <cbx33> ahhhh
[11:11] <LaserJock> it's in now
[11:11] <LaserJock> but it was a bit of a process
[11:11] <cbx33> cooool
[11:11] <LaserJock> so I didn't look into it much
[11:11] <cbx33> ok
[11:11] <LaserJock> but it is a more complete chemistry package
[11:11] <LaserJock> which I think would be really good for Edubuntu
[11:12] <LaserJock> and apparently it is done by on that one dev
[11:12] <cbx33> ok
[11:12] <LaserJock> http://gchemutils.nongnu.org/ is the homepage
[11:12] <cbx33> i'm gonna remove my branch
[11:12] <LaserJock> so I'm going to learn some C++
[11:12] <LaserJock> and try to help out
[11:13] <cbx33> ok
[11:13] <pygi> LaserJock, gtkmm is used for GTK period table?
[11:13] <LaserJock> and hopefully Edgy+1 will have a cool chemistry suite
[11:13] <LaserJock> not sure
[11:14] <LaserJock> I'll bbiab
[11:14] <Laser_away> got to run a couple errands
[11:47] <lucasvo> by any chance, is it possible, that edubuntu install didn't ask me which hostname I want to use?