[12:09] imbrandon, only thing I found was to make a new pbuilder image with the option --arch=architecture.. is this correct? [12:10] xopher, looks to be also checkout /DebootstrapChroot [12:10] pretty much does it step by step [12:10] ok [12:12] anyway, I don't have a 64-bit machine so I can't do much. maybe I should ask him if he'd donate one for development ;-) [12:13] see i would try to help IF he wasent such an ass, if that is the stance of the developers , this his has to be the stance of the users, and i dont see most users acting like this ..... [12:13] Thanks for proving that all my points were true. It seems Ubuntu dosnt care [12:13] about new users at all, or at least you dont. The next time someone tells me [12:13] they do Ill remember these posts, and the link to them in the archives. [12:13] They should be a hoot on my blog and on groklaw. [12:13] ^^ that is totaly un called for [12:14] but alas ubuntu wont be the favorite of everyone , to each their own, and i'll keep working on what i work on === nixternal_ [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-motu === imbrandon is suprised he isnt "angry" at microsoft for not releasing a 64bit OS yet, would make as much since, even more since they are paid to do it [12:17] Windows has a 64Bit OS out already === cbx33 [n=pete@ubuntu/member/cbx33] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:17] imbrandon: http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/64bit/default.mspx [12:18] I didn't know that was a 64bit OS ;-) [12:18] yea but you cant get that on a new 64bit pc at compusa ;) [12:18] they atill install 32bit windows xp [12:25] imbrandon: microsoft has in fact 2 64 bit windows ports: one for itanium and one vor em64t/amd64 [12:25] I don't know how the situation with 64bit drivers for win xp x64 is now but when I tried the beta versions I had to search them [12:25] I hope it has improved till now [12:25] imbrandon: the main problem with the ports is, that all drivers need to be rewritten. [12:27] yea [12:27] oh i feel the pain but i dont whinge about it unless i can or plan to help [12:27] no one even things about these things on a ppc ;) [12:34] imbrandon: I was going to mention ppc java on that thread but though better of it === Fujitsu [n=Fujitsu@ubuntu/member/fujitsu] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:37] oh man, that "64-bit users" thread on u-d is a great exercise for maildrop, yay [12:38] Yeah, it is. [12:39] woooo [12:42] maildrop? [12:44] e.g. send to /dev/null [12:44] (or procmail or whatever; this shell just happens to run maildrop) [12:46] weeping and gnashing of teeth --> 'One of the 64bit users, kuja has started work on a automatrix type of program called simple64.' [12:47] Nooooooo. [12:47] I can't /wait/ til bug reports start hitting LP [12:47] Can we search out and stamp all over them, please? [12:47] That's just bad. [12:47] crimsun: perfect, that will make everybody happy ;) [12:47] And the moral of the story is: [12:48] Appease the users or they'll go out and make shoddy scripts that break things and fill your bugtracking system. [12:48] So we must bend to our users' every whim. === nixternal_ [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:48] It'd be nice if we could convince a few such users to join our ranks [12:48] Yeah. [12:48] Agreed. [12:49] But no, they prefer to write shoddy breaking scripts. === minghua [n=minghua@danube.mems.rice.edu] has joined #ubuntu-motu === givre [n=flo@APuteaux-152-1-81-91.w86-205.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:54] Who is this Kilz_ character anyway? === gnomefreak [n=gnomefre@ubuntu/member/gnomefreak] has joined #ubuntu-motu === xopher [n=xopher@dyn226-120.lpok.dnainternet.fi] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:55] Fujitsu: he has a couple 64-bit howto's and almost 2,000 posts [12:56] I've said my peace [12:56] So /that's/ why the forum is insane. [01:01] I hope crimsun appreciates my pony reference [01:02] hahaha yea i just seen that [01:02] classic man, right on the money [01:02] he dident pick up on my no flash for ppc either [01:03] and ppc has been arround alot longer than x86_64 [01:04] oh well enough of that, time to get the 38 amarok bugs below 10 if i can today ( thats my self made goal ) [01:04] anyone here still have a dapper install ? [01:04] but make sure nothing works on amd64 [01:04] ;-) [01:04] LaserJock, hahah [01:05] imbrandon: does pre-RC dapper count? ;-) [01:05] heh , is it upto date ? [01:05] imbrandon: no, haven't touched it for 4 months [01:05] my home machines are both dapper [01:05] work is edgy [01:06] ahh okie no biggie, i just wanted someone to test the amarok backport, can you do that when you get home LaserJock ? [01:06] probably [01:06] it installed and ran fine in a chroot but i want a real world test [01:06] cool thanks [01:06] I'll let you know when I'm home etc/ [01:06] etc. [01:06] kk [01:07] its just a matter of enabling dapper-backports and installing amarok [01:07] ( or upgrading it )\ [01:07] it's in dapper-backports already? [01:07] yea [01:07] ah === givre [n=flo@APuteaux-152-1-81-91.w86-205.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #ubuntu-motu [] [01:07] will do [01:07] kk thanks [01:11] LaserJock! [01:11] hi [01:11] hello chillywilly [01:11] heya ajmitch and chillywilly [01:11] foooooood time [01:12] ajmitch: what? [01:12] LaserJock: just saying hello [01:12] and wading through u-devel threads [01:13] I want a pony as well [01:14] ajmitch: hello [01:14] ;-) [01:14] that 64-bit thread is just annoying [01:14] more specifically, one demanding person on it === ajmitch wonders why he hasn't been slapped down with the CoC === minghua only read replies from the developers in that thread [01:17] minghua: a wise decision [01:17] minghua, thats ok you still get the whole picture asd he replys with the same thing over and over [01:17] amazingly so many developers replied to him though [01:17] Sadly I'm beginning to see that the whole warm fuzzy feeling of the [01:18] community tends to disappear once off the forums." [01:18] yes, forums are so warm & fuzzy [01:18] lol [01:18] and then he rants on about how ubuntu is lies, all lies, etc ;) [01:21] yep, it is [01:21] and we like it that way ;-) [01:21] on this side of the fence, we're the mean & nasty community ;) [01:22] I try to be mean to new people as often as possible [01:22] so that I can control the Universe and rule the world! [01:22] ajmitch, yeah, very very fuzzy, those forums. [01:22] mwuahahahaha === imbrandon waits for someone to make a howto about installing the 32bit version from a 64bit rpm using alien [01:22] checkinstall baby [01:22] imbrandon: get out [01:23] hahahaha [01:23] imbrandon: Out! Now! You are forever shamed. [01:23] autopackage === Fujitsu puts in a request to the CC to have imbrandon banished from Ubuntu forever. That's wrong wrong wrong. [01:23] it would fit right along with the oo.o one [01:23] or installing xen from RPMs :) [01:23] lol [01:23] hahah yea [01:23] Fujitsu knows who I'm talking about :) [01:24] ajmitch, that was good. [01:24] quick versioning question [01:24] imbrandon, we had a guy in -au wanting to install Xen using the RPMs from xensource. [01:24] heh [01:24] nice [01:24] is ubuntuX ok for a native package [01:24] LaserJock, yes. [01:24] LaserJock: sort of [01:25] ajmitch, how else would it be done? [01:25] umm if its native why not just [01:25] if its not -0ubuntu1 [01:25] because what happens if Debian and Ubuntu aren't the same [01:25] if it's definitely for ubuntu, then drop the ubuntu suffix [01:25] it's Ubuntu but will probably go in Debian at some point [01:25] if it's for debian also, the ubuntu version ends up higher [01:25] LaserJock: should be ok then [01:25] without the - [01:26] 0.3ubuntu1 is what I'm looking at [01:26] if it's not in debian yet, why not drop the ubuntuX [01:26] i thought ifd it wasent in debian yet ( but could be ) it needed -0ubuntu1 [01:26] imbrandon: well, native packages are stupid that way ;-) [01:27] I think it's wrong to add -anything to native package [01:27] ah -0 would imply a non-native package to me [01:27] Native package is versioning is generally a little strange/stuffed. Like when somebody does an NMU and adds -0.1. [01:27] LaserJock, -0 means not in debian [01:28] imbrandon: it means a little more then that though [01:28] imbrandon, not in Debian, but also non-native. === Hawkwind [n=SoS@ulteo/community-leader/Hawkwind] has joined #Ubuntu-MOTU [01:29] anywho, if 0.3ubuntu1 is ok I'll do that as I want to show it's an Ubuntu package and native [01:29] but then the developer's reference seems to say NMU for native package should add -0.1, so whatever [01:30] yeah, but what do they know? ;-) [01:30] haha i can see it now 0.3ubuntu1-0.1debian [01:31] haha [01:31] maybe it could be backported [01:31] if it's a Ubuntu package and native, why add "ubuntu1"? [01:31] 0.3ubuntu1-0.1debian~stable [01:31] crimsun: because it might also end up in Debian [01:31] with little modification [01:31] but probably some === Hawkwind [n=SoS@ulteo/community-leader/Hawkwind] has joined #Ubuntu-MOTU [01:31] LaserJock, so don't add ubuntu1. [01:31] LaserJock: then just bump the version number and upload 0.4 to debian [01:32] we've already had issues with native packages getting autosynced [01:32] they could use 0.4 or something [01:32] eg initramfs-tools [01:32] because of ubuntu1 ? [01:32] because it didn't have ubuntuX [01:32] and so got autosynced & overwritten [01:32] oh [01:32] good point actually [01:32] but the package LaserJock is talking about isn't in Debian yet, is it, LaserJock? [01:33] no [01:33] but if it does and we have just 0.3 [01:33] initramfs-tools wasn't initially in debian either, iirc [01:33] it'll get auto synced [01:33] I see ajmitch's point now [01:33] so maybe 0.3ubuntu1 is better (if just ugly) [01:34] mostly I just hate native packages, or at least that the versioning doesn't seem to be consistent a lot of the time === ajmitch files urgent UVF exception [01:35] .oO( native packages by definition are not supposed to exist in two distros ) [01:35] yes [01:35] which is hard for Ubuntu [01:35] minghua: theory & reality don't always see eye-to-eye [01:36] since it's almost one distro [01:36] but not exactly [01:36] you should checkinstall it for great forum justice. === crimsun goes to wash out his brain [01:36] troll [01:36] me goes off to slit his wrists [01:36] ajmitch: true, true. but who cares about reality anyway? ;-) [01:37] crap [01:38] hmm [01:40] just kidding. that's what we sometimes say in a theoretical physics research group :-) [01:40] heh === ajmitch watches #d-d with interest [01:41] Hahah, yeah. [01:41] oftc ? [01:41] why did they move to oftc? [01:42] 'cause it's better. [01:42] imbrandon: yes === Fujitsu ducks. [01:42] nah [01:42] freenode is still the happening place to be :) [01:42] well tbh they really dident move, they just opened another channel [01:42] still more users on freenode [01:43] all the devel action is on oftc [01:43] true, but thats one reason i see not to move ubuntu ( as in its really not a move but more of a split ) [01:43] it IS a move, by pointing irc.debian.org to OFTC instead of freenode [01:44] minghua, yea but look at the user count in #debian on both networks [01:44] freenode rocks, no need to move :) [01:44] imbrandon: that's unfortunate, but hopefully people can move eventually [01:45] most channels moved completely though === doko_ [n=doko@dslb-088-073-125-064.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:46] yup it would be unfortunate for me to as 99% of the upstream i deal with is on freenode to stay ( kde* ) [01:46] why would it be unfortunate? [01:46] if ubuntu moved [01:46] most clients can handle being on more than one network [01:46] yea but it sucks [01:47] heh === ajmitch doesn't notice problems with it === chillywilly notices that levin.freenode.net revolves [01:47] i'm on 4 networks atm , and hate every minute of it [01:47] & i'm usually on 3 or more networks === chillywilly is on 3 [01:47] er, 4 === ajmitch can't remember how many [01:47] imbrandon: why so? [01:47] freenode, oftc, gimpnet, undernet are the 4 I know I'm connected to right now [01:47] freenode stratics oftc and bitlbee ( if that can be considered a network ) === Fujitsu informs imbrandon of /quit [01:48] crimsun, mostly just a pain to me not to all be in one place [01:48] freenode, our work ircd that I maintain, a freind's ircd, and irc.mozilla.org [01:49] users, always complaining about something... [01:49] hahaha true /me == user of irc === Gervystar [n=alessand@2001:1418:1ce:0:20e:a6ff:fea4:4ab5] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:49] wow ipv6 addr ? [01:49] does freenode have a ipv6 server ? [01:50] Freenode has multiple [01:50] nice , i never knew that [01:50] i thought about trying to get a ipv6 network going here at home just to learn it [01:50] has had it for years === ajmitch goes through the aarnet tunnel broker [01:51] but i dont think my cheap router does ipv6 [01:51] My cheap router does. [01:51] Of course, it's a Dapper server. [01:51] heh [01:51] My cheap router is a Sarge Pentium II. [01:52] It was a Sarge PII 500 or something, now it's a Dapper PIII 800. [01:52] mine is a netgear wireless something, i guess i could make the fileserver a router [01:52] StevenK++ [01:52] but i have a linksys [01:52] unhacked now even [01:52] no patience for all the dicking around [01:52] hehe [01:54] StevenK: I have the same, iirc [01:54] whay change what works? === StevenK is pondering reinstalling his file server as Dapper. [02:00] if I cared enough I'd probably upgrade as well [02:01] My file server is also my print server, running CUPS 1.1, which is quite useless for my Dapper desktop and laptop. [02:02] hum ok i got an issue ( please dont make me search the forums LOL ) i have a huge osx partition ( hfs+ ) i want to oblitorate and have my reiserfs linux partion absorb the free space WITHOUT reinstalling linux, is this possible ? [02:02] Yes. [02:02] hints ? [02:02] imbrandon: Reinstall using ext3 === StevenK smirks [02:03] imbrandon: gparted? [02:03] How to shrink and grow reiser filesystems, I have no idea. === Yagisan [n=Yagisan@doomsday/developer/Yagisan] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:05] heh [02:05] i might just reinstall beta, i really dident want to though [02:06] but stupid me put osx on a 25gig partition and linux ( with swap ) on a 5 gig or a 30 gig drive [02:06] can you grow a non-LVM partition? [02:06] s/or/on [02:06] minghua, ext3 you can [02:07] i just wasent sure about reiser [02:07] imbrandon: that's growing a filesystem, isn't it? [02:07] right but its trickery with ext2 [02:07] I've done growing a LVM-partition and then growing the ext3 fs on it [02:07] you delete the partition table and recreate it larger but taking up the same spot [02:07] but have no idea about non-LVM partitions [02:08] oh okay [02:08] its trickery but works [02:08] for ext3 that is [02:08] I think I've see FAT32 partitions worked that way [02:08] I wouldn't dare to do that without a proper backup though [02:08] imbrandon: Or use gparted which has a resize command. [02:09] StevenK, even for reiser ? or are you talking about ext3 [02:09] hum i guess i could just format it resier and move /home onto it [02:10] that would save a reinstall [02:10] have a 5 gig / and 25gig /home ;) [02:11] or 5g / 10g /var and 15g /home , hum [02:12] might be interesting trying to move /var though [02:14] imbrandon: That's what single-user mode is for. [02:14] ;) === tuxmaniac [n=aanjhan@unaffiliated/tuxmaniac] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:19] ReiserFS can be resized using a utility from the reiserfsprogs package I think. [02:19] It can even be resized while mounted. [02:19] From what a quick google brought up for me at least. [02:20] wow nice TheMuso i'll take another look at google [02:21] imbrandon: man resize_reiserfs [02:21] hmmm [02:21] according to the manpage, the filesystem has to be unmounted [02:22] IMO that would be safer. [02:22] yea [02:22] XFS and JFS have to be resized while mounted however. [02:22] i have allt he inportant info backed up anyhow [02:22] but still [02:22] yeah === TheMuso uses JFS [02:24] TheMuso, I use resize_resierfs very regularly when mounted. [02:25] ahh the man page says the same way as doing it with ext3 [02:25] imbrandon, Fujitsu, what made you guys choose reiserfs? [02:25] TheMuso, I've just always liked it, dunno why... [02:25] faster on my box than ext3 [02:25] Well, it supports online resizing for one thing. [02:25] you wish to enlarge a filesystem, you must make sure [02:25] you expand the underlying device first. This can be done using cfdisk(8) for partitions, by deleting the partition and recreat [02:25] ing it with a larger size (assuming there is free space after the partition in question). Make sure you re-create it with the [02:25] same starting disk cylinder as before! Otherwise, the resize operation will certainly not work, and you may lose your entire [02:26] filesystem. [02:26] wont help, the partition is at the end of the drive ;( [02:26] I tried reiserfs a few years ago, and was badly burnt by it [02:26] imbrandon: You will have to re-create the filesystem then. [02:26] imbrandon, you can also always copy the entire filesystem off to another system, delete the partitions, recreate a big one, copy the filesystem back, and run grub. [02:27] SO used ext3 until I found out what other filesystems were ok. [02:27] Then I was told about jFS> [02:27] Fujitsu, you mean ybin ;) [02:27] Well, yes. [02:27] hehe [02:28] hum i'm thinking a format / reinstall will do it some good anyhow , gives me an excuse to test a clean beta install [02:28] Yeah, that's true. [02:29] And it's not bad to do that on a *nix, because once you've got /home you've really got most of the important stuff. [02:30] Yeah. [02:30] my /home is normaly on a nfs share , but i keep a local account on the lappy just in case i'm on the road [02:30] I reckon if Windows allowed one to mount Documents and Settings on another partition, things would be a lot better. [02:30] TheMuso, well you /can/ its just a pita [02:31] imbrandon: I know that, but it really should be possible from the word go. [02:31] yea [02:31] but who would reinstall windows over and over ? [02:31] hehe === TheMuso goes to see if a different netboot image will allow him to get debian re-installed on his alpha box. [02:32] imbrandon, who would install Windows full stop? [02:32] heh [02:34] I love learning about non-x86 hardware. [02:34] TheMuso, heehee. [02:35] This alpha is a little old however. [02:35] HAHAH. [02:35] mdz's response to the warm-fuzzy-forums thin. [02:35] *thing [02:35] Ah y eah. I saw that. [02:35] Damn. Still panics in the same spot. === RedKrieg [n=RedKrieg@ip68-10-83-27.hr.hr.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:38] forgive me father for i have sin'd http://www.imbrandon.com/misc/vista.jpg ( had to try it on the amd64 over the last weekend ) [02:39] heh [02:40] its kinda funny how there is no start button though, just a logo ( kinda like ummmm the K logo anyone !?! ) [02:41] and the windeco is very kwin-style-crystal-ish [02:41] Egads it looks more like MockOS all the time [02:41] har har bddebian [02:42] bddebian, heh playing with it its more like kde all the time actualy ( in the way it works ) [02:42] Heya tseng and imbrandon :-) [02:42] hi [02:42] heya === Amaranth [n=travis@ubuntu/member/amaranth] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:52] imbrandon: THing about Vista is you probably had to go to much greater lengths to obtain it. === Marsmensch [n=daniel@dslb-084-056-088-031.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === GreyStar [n=SoS@ulteo/community-leader/Hawkwind] has joined #Ubuntu-Motu [03:01] moin, is this the right channel to suggest a package for the reps? [03:02] Marsmensch: Unfortunately, we have just past universe freeze, so unless there is a good reason why the package should be included, it will have to wait till edgy+1. [03:05] so in summary, right channel, but unfortunate timing [03:06] TheMuso: Yeah, i understand. I found the site https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Candidates and will put it on. So doesn't matter at all :) [03:07] Hmm, I wonder if any other MOTU read that page regularly? I sure don't === lastnode [n=lastnode@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:08] minghua: Nope I don't. [03:12] hmmmm, so you have any ideas where to put it on? [03:13] Marsmensch: sorry, that's probably the best place if you don't want to work on it yourself [03:14] Marsmensch: I am just saying putting it there doesn't increase much its chance to get into ubuntu [03:15] hmmm, ok, ... i'm to unskilled to work on it myself === lritter [n=paniq@port-212-202-50-112.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:16] so i can say it here any maybe and you make a notice about it? [03:16] hey there. i can't find anything related to changes in the font rendering past 6.06, but i know it happened [03:16] i can't seem to use bci hinting anymore, no matter how much i try [03:16] i have pointed this out in the bugtracker but nobody seems to be interested [03:17] i really wonder whats going on. it works with the live cd, for example. [03:17] Marsmensch: sorry, that page is the place we make notice for such requests [03:17] Marce: not much more I can do [03:18] uh, hilight :> === zul [n=chuck@CPE0006258ec6c1-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:18] Marsmensch: ^^^ [03:18] Marce: sorry === Amaranth [n=travis@ubuntu/member/amaranth] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:18] minghua: no problem :) === GreyStar [n=SoS@ulteo/community-leader/Hawkwind] has joined #Ubuntu-Motu [03:23] ok a few minutes ago i read in the benq mobile developer newsletter, that finaly the mobile phone mager for linux available is (LMPM). whis this software you can connect your siemens benq mobile phone to the pc and synchronise it. the software is available for ubuntu 5.10, suse 10 and madriva [03:24] Is it open source? [03:24] more detailed information about itnhttp://www.benq-siemens.com/cds/frontdoor/0,2241,hq_en_0_130289_0_xcp%253A140777_xcs%253A130989,00.html === Arrogance [n=aks@ottawa-hs-209-217-96-133.d-ip.magma.ca] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:25] no idea, why? [03:25] has it to be for adding to reps? [03:26] Marsmensch, it must be open source, and it's not. [03:26] ohhh ok :-( [03:28] thx for help [03:30] Marsmensch: well, it doesn't HAVE to be open source [03:30] Marsmensch: it has to have a license that would allow us to put it in the repos [03:30] Marsmensch: and it has to be of high enough of "quality" package-wise that it doesn't threaten the existing system [03:30] so [03:30] nobody has an idea? [03:31] lritter, this isn't the right channel... [03:31] what is the right channel then [03:31] thank you jdong, makes sense :) [03:31] Fujitsu: what is the right channel then [03:31] lritter: you should ask in #ubuntu-devel on Monday. Most of the developers are off on the weekend. [03:31] i see [03:31] good point [03:32] thank you === dooglus [n=dooglus@rincevent.net] has left #ubuntu-motu [] [03:32] lritter: what is bci hinting? [03:32] byte code interpreted hinting [03:32] some fonts contain information on how to correct pixels on lower resolutions [03:32] such as the ms core fonts [03:32] and other people are right, let's move to #ubuntu-devel [03:32] lritter: isn't that what dpkg-reconfigure fontconfig-config asks? [03:33] jdong: funny enough, it doesn't ask me anything. [03:33] jdong: it just runs without any interactive dialogue. [03:33] lritter: sudo dpkg-reconfigure -plow fontconfig-config [03:33] lritter: it asks me just fine.... [03:34] plow :) [03:34] okay, i guess its that. [03:35] let me see. [03:35] but IIRC the default debconf choice is bytecode hinting [03:35] ooh :) === cr3 [n=marc@pdpc/supporter/bronze/cr3] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:37] okay, i turned it on, still no change [03:37] anyway, i'm moving this to ubuntu-devel === Hawkwind [n=SoS@ulteo/community-leader/Hawkwind] has joined #Ubuntu-Motu === Hawkwind [n=SoS@ulteo/community-leader/Hawkwind] has joined #Ubuntu-Motu [03:50] wow, 1444 packages to download [03:50] this may take a little while [03:51] that's quite a few [03:51]