[02:06] <Ubugtu> New bug: #63463 in soyuz "firefox crashes" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63463
[03:00] <mpt> Gooooooooooooooood afternoon Launchpadders!
[08:25] <SteveA> good morning
[08:27] <carlos> morning
[08:32] <fabbione> hmmm
[08:32] <fabbione> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/vlan/+bug/50460
[08:32] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 50460 in vlan "Please install this package by default" [Wishlist,Fix released]  
[08:32] <fabbione> this bug has been fixed in edgy and marked as such
[08:33] <fabbione> but +distrotask doesn't allow me to open a new task for dapper-updates
[08:33] <fabbione> it claims there is an error
[08:33] <fabbione> This bug has already been reported on vlan (ubuntu).
[08:33] <fabbione> so how am i supposed to do that?
[08:34] <Fujitsu> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/vlan/+bug/50460/+backport ?
[08:34] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 50460 in vlan "Please install this package by default" [Wishlist,Fix released]  
[08:36] <fabbione> Fujitsu: no, it's not a backport, it's a task
[08:49] <BjornT> fabbione: for now, i think using +backport is the right thing to do. there has been work done on improving release targeting, but it hasn't landed yet.
[08:49] <jordi> carlos: have a look at the additions to the KDE page
[08:50] <jordi> and tell danilo and I how it looks from your side
[08:50] <fabbione> BjornT: point is that i am not requesting a backport of the package. It's a "bug" in the seeds that should include the package on dapper-updates CD
[08:53] <BjornT> fabbione: i know. the ui is a bit unclear here, "backport" refers to the fix, not to the package. "backport" is still the wrong word to use, though, and it will be changed in a few weeks.
[08:54] <fabbione> BjornT: ok
[09:57] <SteveA> _thumper_: good morning
[10:01] <_thumper_> SteveA: morning
[10:01] <_thumper_> my icon wasn't flashing
[10:01] <SteveA> you officially start today, right?
[10:01] <_thumper_> yep
[10:01] <SteveA> excellent!
[10:01] <_thumper_> going throught the new starter wiki page now
[10:02] <SteveA> okay
[10:02] <SteveA> you ought to get launchpad set up on your machine today too
[10:02] <SteveA> lifeless: ping
[10:02] <_thumper_> they are all on holiday aren't they?
[10:02] <SteveA> lifeless will need to tell PQM about your GPG key
[10:03] <SteveA> hmm... yeah that's a point.  Queen's birthday and labour day
[10:03] <_thumper_> labour day I think
[10:03] <_thumper_> my folks live in Perth
[10:03] <SteveA> and the usual bzr meeting that is normally on a monday has been put off to tomorrow
[10:03] <_thumper_> yeah, I saw the email
[10:04] <_thumper_> that's going to be fun from NZ
[10:04] <SteveA> we can try renegotiating the times
[10:04] <SteveA> in the past, we've had bzr-launchpad meetings a bit earlier
[10:04] <_thumper_> nah, I'll just do it late
[10:04] <SteveA> although, DST ends soon in the northern half of the world
[10:04] <SteveA> and that makes times more difficult
[10:05] <_thumper_> where is the wiki mentioned in the cannel heading?
[10:05] <_thumper_> s/cannel/channel/
[10:06] <SteveA> https://launchpad.canonical.com/
[10:06] <SteveA> the internal launchpad development wiki
[10:06] <SteveA> although, I should move the meeting agenda to a public wiki really
[10:07] <_thumper_> ok, I was looking at the other canonical wiki
[10:07] <SteveA> seeing as it is a public meeting
[10:07] <SteveA> what's your user id in Launchpad  ?
[10:07] <_thumper_> I'll just check
[10:08] <_thumper_> tim-penhey
[10:09] <carlos> jordi: ok, let me see...
[10:10] <SteveA> ok.  I added you as a member of the 'launchpad' team (Launchpad Developers)
[10:10] <_thumper_> ok
[10:11] <SteveA> this means, among other things, that you'll see tracebacks when launchpad OOPSes in production
[10:12] <carlos> jordi, danilos: I think that document is good enough to send it to KDE and GNOME people
[10:12] <SteveA> is also means you get a cute rocketship emblem on your homepage
[10:12] <_thumper_> SteveA, ok - that happen often?
[10:13] <SteveA> depends what pages you go to
[10:13] <SteveA> technically speaking it happens on every 404 page
[10:13] <_thumper_> no doubt things will become clear with time
[10:13] <SteveA> we're getting about 10 application errors per day, of those 3-4 distinct errors
[10:13] <SteveA> most of which have branches ready to be reviewed or rolled out
[10:14] <carlos> jordi, danilos: And publish it somewhere in our wiki so we can point future questions addressed by that document
[10:14] <SteveA> so, I'm looking forward to when we're consistently getting 0 application errors per day
[10:14] <carlos> jordi, danilos: also, I guess that Steve and/or kiko should read it before sending it
[10:14] <SteveA> we also get time-outs occassionally, mainly from rosetta pages right now.  carlos, danilo and kiko are working on fixing those.
[10:21] <SteveA> morning ddaa 
[10:22] <ddaa> Hello SteveA
[10:24] <SteveA> ddaa: Tim started work today.
[10:24] <ddaa> Right
[10:24] <_thumper_> ddaa, morning
[10:25] <ddaa> I have a call with mpt scheduled in 35 mins about the 1.0 UI
[10:25] <ddaa> _thumper_: hello buddy
[10:26] <SteveA> ddaa, _thumper_: let's set up shop on #launchpad-meeting, for discussing getting Tim set up with launchpad etc. and starting to look through the bzr-launchpad stuff.
[10:26] <SteveA> that way we won't be totally spamming #launchpad :-)
[10:26] <ddaa> ack
[11:49] <_Nightwish_> how to close/delete an launchpad account?
[11:51] <_Nightwish_> anyone?
[11:51] <_Nightwish_> !help
[11:58] <Burgundavia> any malone people up?
[12:00] <BjornT> Burgundavia: yeah, i'm here.
[12:03] <Burgundavia> BjornT: I need to the bugs from a product redirected to another product
[12:03] <Burgundavia> basically baobob has been subsumed into gnome-utils
[12:11] <BjornT> Burgundavia: we don't have any mass-change interface yet, so if there are many bugs stub is needed to modify the db directly. but how many bugs are there? i can't find any bugs for the product itself, and the source package has 5 bugs. are there more?
[12:12] <BjornT> if not, it's probably easiest to re-assign the bugs manually, one by one.
[12:32] <Burgundavia> BjornT: will do. What about making certain new bugs go to gnome-utils?
[12:35] <jamesh> Burgundavia: given that there is an Ubuntu release with another 2.5 years of desktop support which has a baobab package, why would you want to do that?
[12:35] <Burgundavia> jamesh: because baobob no longer exists as an idependent project
[12:36] <jamesh> ... but there is a baobab package that'll need to be maintained for another 2.5 years, right?
[12:36] <jamesh> so it makes sense to be able to file bugs against it
[12:36] <Burgundavia> hmm, interesting
[12:37] <BjornT> Burgundavia: that's a bit harder, i don't think it's possible to do today. and as jamesh points out, it might make sense to let people file bugs against the old package.
[12:37] <Burgundavia> right
[12:49] <jordi> carlos: alright
[12:50] <jordi> SteveA: kiko-zzz: our reply to the recent GNOME/KDE debates about rosetta: https://launchpad.canonical.com/RosettaKdeCollaboration
[12:51] <jordi> SteveA: if you could have a quick look and see if you have any comments
[12:57] <lifeless> _thumper_: please email me your gpg key in ascii armoured form
[12:58] <lifeless> review team meeting in 2 minutes
[12:58] <_thumper_> lifeless, sure as soon as I figure out how
[12:58] <lifeless> gpg --export -a keyid
[01:03] <lifeless> ok review meeting time
[01:03] <carlos> jordi: please, use email so they don't forget it
[01:03] <lifeless> spiv and jamesh are on leave
[01:03] <carlos> jordi: with a copy to launchpad@
[01:03] <lifeless> that leaves bjornt and SteveA at regular attendance
[01:03] <BjornT> hi
[01:03] <lifeless> (on leave == public holidays)
[01:04] <lifeless> and I'm technically on public holiday
[01:04] <lifeless> so I'd like to move that we skip the meeting unless there is urgent business, just ahve it next week
[01:04] <lifeless> all in favour ?
[01:04] <BjornT> skipping the meetings sounds good
[01:05] <lifeless> the ayes have it
[01:05] <lifeless> later y'all
[01:06] <jordi> carlos: yup
[01:07] <carlos> jordi: thanks
[01:07] <jordi> done
[01:23] <SteveA> jordi: I'll look after lunch.
[01:23] <jordi> SteveA: thanks
[02:06] <Ubugtu> New bug: #62668 in language-pack-gnome-es "[Edgy]  Some strings can't be translated" [Undecided,Rejected]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62668
[02:32] <zwnj> kiko-zzz: ping
[02:40] <Ubugtu> New bug: #63557 in rosetta "In a filtered view, Rosetta skips messages when saving" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63557
[02:51] <ddaa> SteveA: is there some policy thing about when launchpad devs should start dogfooding edgy?
[02:52] <ddaa> (that is reaction to the announce of edgy beta)
[03:10] <Znarl> Oh yeah, screen would have been a good idea too.  *slaps head*
[03:10] <Znarl> Opps, sorry.
[03:41] <SteveA> ddaa: I haven't received a particular request from the distro team this time around.  Usually, I recommend people start at the code freeze at the latest.
[03:41] <SteveA> If you don't try edgy on your own hardware, then it's possible that it won't work well.
[03:43] <ddaa> Well, I have a pretty standard T42p with very large screen (I think iwj has the same). So I am not really concerned about compatibility. Also I do not have my disk set up for running multiple OSes.
[03:43] <zwnj> ping kiko-zzz
[03:43] <ddaa> So it's just a matter of launchpad development. I usually wait for a little bit after the gold release, just to avoid any unecessary downtime.
[04:13] <kiko> hy zwnj 
[04:13] <zwnj> kiko: hi
[04:13] <zwnj> kiko: may i ask some questions?
[04:15] <kiko> you may, but not exactly right now as I have a phone call to take
[04:19] <kiko> carlos, did you see jane's reply?
[04:19] <carlos> kiko: yeah, thanks
[04:19] <carlos> I just sent an email to Rafa
[04:19] <carlos> asking for more info
[04:19] <kiko> carlos, if you need any more info from me, ping me!
[04:20] <carlos> kiko: sure, I will do it! ;-)
[04:27] <matsubara> hey carlos, could you take a look at: https://launchpad.net/products/rosetta/+ticket/1930? I don't know if that is something that you can do or that needs some DB powers.
[04:27] <carlos> ok
[04:28] <carlos> matsubara: DBA needs to do that
[04:28] <carlos> matsubara: I will handle that request
[04:28] <carlos> (I need to provide Stuart with the SQL query to do it)
[04:28] <matsubara> carlos: all right. thanks a lot!
[04:53] <SteveA> kiko: yo
[04:54] <kiko> phone
[04:58] <SteveA> jordi, carlos, danilos; I have some comments on that wiki page
[04:58] <SteveA> who should I talk with?
[04:58] <carlos> SteveA: jordi and danilo prepared it
[05:02] <SteveA> carlos: are you using carbon for langpack generation ?
[05:02] <carlos> yes
[05:03] <carlos> is it causing problems?
[05:03] <SteveA> no, but karl wants to take the machine offline for 30 mins or 1hr sometime this week
[05:04] <SteveA> is there anything special we should do about that?
[05:04] <carlos> well, if it's running, I would need to execute it later or just skip that daily snapshot
[05:04] <SteveA> when does it run?
[05:05] <carlos> anyway, the process ends around 8:00 London time
[05:05] <SteveA> am?
[05:05] <carlos> it starts at 4:45
[05:05] <carlos> yes
[05:05] <carlos> AM
[05:05] <SteveA> ok, that's fine then
[05:05] <carlos> SteveA: thanks for checking it
[05:11] <SteveA> danilos, jordi: ping me when you want to talk about the announcement
[05:15] <danilos> SteveA: sure, I can do it right away
[05:18] <jordi> SteveA: I'm ready
[05:23] <SteveA> jordi: I'm talking to danilo
[05:23] <SteveA> he can show you the changes in the wiki later
[05:24] <jordi> okay
[05:25] <jordi> if you want to move to #cm just say
[05:26] <SteveA> we're done
[05:27] <danilos> jordi: I'll be doing some changes in the wiki right now, and will let you handle the rest ;)
[05:31] <jordi> danilos: always remember that if you want to handle everything, I'll be happy to let you do the task.
[05:32] <danilos> jordi: I don't doubt it, but I hate to take destroy your fine work :P
[05:32] <jordi> danilos: so, are there many changes to do?
[05:33] <danilos> jordi: not too many, let me get you informed
[05:33] <jordi> k
[05:38] <jordi> SteveA: okay. Sorry about the "insider" language in some sentences. The text once was directed to launchpad@, not the actual KDE/GNOME people
[05:38] <jordi> so some things have escaped the rewrites
[05:38] <SteveA> it's fine
[05:38] <SteveA> I think it's clearly written overall
[05:42] <SteveA> salgado: ping, sometime, not urgent
[05:48] <salgado> SteveA, pong
[05:55] <jordi> kiko: where is the KIKO!?
[05:55] <kiko> on drugs
[05:56] <jordi> kiko: the KDE thingy is ready for your review. Do you want me to mail you about it so you don't forget?
[05:56] <jordi> it's been reviewed by danilo/steve already
[05:56] <kiko> no
[05:56] <jordi> we want your ok too
[05:56] <jordi> danilos: I'm thinking getting jonathan's view could be good too
[05:57] <danilos> kiko: we want your announcement-foo over it, and I've heard your announcement-foo is this big: >------------------<
[05:57] <kiko> oh ,am
[05:59] <jordi> heh
[05:59] <kiko> I'm in the middle of 5 convos
[06:08] <Riddell> jordi, danilos: can I show that to toma for feedback?  (author of the KDERosettaCollaboration wiki page)
[06:08] <jordi> Riddell: we were going to send this to the relevant KDE and GNOME list I guess
[06:09] <Riddell> ok
[06:09] <jordi> but sure, it'll be public very soon
[06:09] <jordi> so go ahead if you want
[06:10] <jordi> Riddell: wait before we have the final version though
[06:10] <jordi> we're waiting for a final review
[06:11] <Riddell> sure
[06:19] <kristog> hello *
[06:22] <flacoste> kiko, salgado: ping
[06:23] <kiko> flacoste, can it be a bit later?
[06:23] <flacoste> kiko: it could be, it's about the ticket expiration script, i need some pointers
[06:24] <flacoste> kiko: i'll ping you a little bit later, maybe after lunch
[06:24] <kiko> k
[06:28] <kristog> i have a question for you: i wanted to have a commit-mailing-list for some pkg-team; people told me that LP can deliver bzr-commit-messages to people that are part of the team, i was wonderig if it is a good idea add fake accounts to the team (so fake LP user) with mail-address a ML address (something like team-commit@google...) as (at the moment) LP hasn't support for ML. 
[06:29] <kiko> kristog, you can create teams that have mailing lists as their contact addresses, no problem.
[06:30] <kiko> however, we don't send commit emails out yet
[06:30] <kiko> ddaa can perhaps fill you in on more of that.
[06:30] <ddaa> well
[06:31] <ddaa> actually, we'd love to have that feature
[06:31] <kristog> yes :)
[06:31] <ddaa> we've been planning to do it since early this year
[06:31] <ddaa> but unfortunately we never had the round tuits to do it
[06:31] <kristog> ddaa: uhm why not add the bzr-mail-plugin to the bzr repo?
[06:32] <ddaa> kristog: we'll almost certainly have to something different
[06:32] <ddaa> for example, to handle teams that do not have an explicit email address
[06:33] <ddaa> and because which-team-to-which-repo is not explicit in the disk layout we use internally
[06:33] <ddaa> and because anyway the host that contains the repos is generally considered compromised and would not be able to send mails
[06:33] <ddaa> the list could go on like that for a long tim
[06:35] <kristog> ddaa: why not create by defaults standard set of mailaddress for team? like pkg-telepathy-bugs, pkg-telepathy-commits..
[06:35] <kristog> what you mean with "generally considered compromised" ?
[06:36] <LarstiQ> sounds distro centric?
[06:41] <ddaa> I mean the system that hosts the branch is considered a low-security system, with little privileges
[06:42] <ddaa> kristog: we cannot make the existence of a mailing list a prerequisite for creating a team
[06:43] <ddaa> besides, most branches in launchpad have nothing to do with packages
[06:44] <kristog> ddaa: probably you are right, but i hope people will start use pkg-team for do package maintanance, at last for things like galago or telepathy which are not part of main and that have a lot of packges
[06:44] <DANIELIT> HI
[06:45] <kristog> and in the end, all teams should have a Ml for coordination...
[06:45] <DANIELIT> I have a question, in the Galician TEAM what distro i must translate?
[06:45] <DANIELIT> UBUNTU 5.10 6.06 or 6.16
[06:45] <DANIELIT> ?
[06:45] <ddaa> kristog: I have only the fuzziest idea of what you are talking about
[06:47] <ddaa> I think launchpad should provide a mailing list functionality, but I do not think it's considered a priority. Ubunu-related MLs are done with mailmain at lists.canonical.com, and there are good third party services for upstreams.
[06:54] <kristog> ddaa: sorry, someone rebooted this machine..
[06:55] <ddaa> kristog: in summary, yes we would like to do that, I think that would be an extremely useful feature. But it requires some doing to integrate in Launchpad. On the other hand you should be able to tie something up with a cronjob that looks on http://bazaar.launchpad.net to do the job in the meantime.
[06:56] <ddaa> kristog: I'm not very up to date with the status of the various bzr plugins, but you could get help on #bzr
[07:00] <kristog> ddaa: there is a mail plugin written by (let me search), it do what i need, but i guess it should be installed on the main bzr repo
[07:00] <ddaa> what do you mean "installed on the main bzr repo"?
[07:02] <kristog> Installing a plugin is very easy! One can either install a plugin systemwide or on a user by user basis. Both methods involve create a "plugins" directory. Within this directory one can place plugins in subdirectories. For example, "plugins/bzrtools/".
[07:02] <kristog> taken from the bzr website
[07:02] <ddaa> well, yes, but what is relation with the location of the branch you want to watch for commits?
[07:03] <ddaa> it's all designed so you can get full functionality without installing anything on a server
[07:03] <kristog> i guess it should be installed in ~team/.plugins
[07:03] <ddaa> on which system?
[07:04] <kristog> on bazaar.lp.net
[07:04] <kristog> as all people want know what is changed
[07:04] <ddaa> there's no place, and no need, to install plugins on bazaar.lp.net
[07:04] <ddaa> I think you have some misconceptions.
[07:04] <kristog> yes.
[07:05] <LarstiQ> installing the plugin on bazaar.lp.net will do nothing
[07:06] <sivang> re folks
[07:06] <ddaa> What I'm thinking of is setting a cronscript on any machine on the internet with a good enough uptime. That script will look for new commits on the branch on bazaar.lp.net, and send emails when it sees something new.
[07:06] <LarstiQ> it is run locally on commit, there is no commit going on on launchpad, unless I severely misjudge the lp architecture.
[07:06] <ddaa> It's, you know, decentralised.
[07:06] <kristog> LarstiQ: https://launchpad.net/people/telepathy/+branch/cohoba/ubuntu
[07:06] <ddaa> Having the feature on LP would make that user-run cronscript uncessary, and would allow for lower latency, but it's not necessary to get the feature.
[07:07] <kristog> LarstiQ: no, you are right. sorry
[07:07] <kristog> LarstiQ: on lp you can find only the commit messages..
[07:07] <ddaa> bazaar.launchpad.net IS launchpad
[07:08] <ddaa> it's just one of the non-web services, but it's the same application
[07:13] <sivang> hmm, is there any bug reported or any plans to fix the odd feedback to LP name display on a spec's details page, in the left facelet ?
[07:14] <sivang> for instance, if we take a look at https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/make-free-space-wizard , there a feedback request there, but I have no idea whom it came from and it's aligned and attached to my name in $NAME:$FEEDBACK manner, which really confuses.
[07:29] <LarstiQ> kristog: I meant a commit action having a possible post_commit action. Of course, lp could scan on push.
[07:53] <jordi> kiko: I'm leaving
[07:53] <jordi> kiko: tell us something about that doc
[07:55] <kiko> hmm
[07:56] <kiko> jordi, point 4 is badly justified.
[07:56] <kiko> justify it by pointing out that people depend on online services which are also not open source, without qualms
[07:57] <kiko> justify it also by pointing out that we have an open specification process, and that people that are willing to put in time to help us design good features can contribute
[08:01] <kiko> jordi, should I send these in through email?
[08:02] <jordi> kiko: er
[08:02] <jordi> probably, because I don't have the time to fix it now
[08:02] <kiko> ok.
[08:02] <jordi> tia
[08:29] <flacoste-lunch> kiko: ping
[08:29] <kiko> flacoste, I don't think I will have time to chat today -- can it be tomorrow? or alternatively, can SteveA or salgado help you?
[08:29] <flacoste> kiko: they sure can, i need instruction on how to setup a celebrity for the expiration script
[08:30] <kiko> cool
[08:30] <flacoste> salgado, SteveA: ^^^
[08:37] <carlos> see you tomorrow!!!
[08:39] <SteveA> jordi: around still?
[08:39] <SteveA> flacoste: you want to make a new celebrity?
[08:40] <flacoste> SteveA: yes, i'm adding an expire-tickets.py script
[08:40] <SteveA> what would the celebrity be?
[08:41] <flacoste> SteveA: 'Support Tracker Janitor' or 'Support Request Expirer' or whatever 
[08:41] <SteveA> so that a "Person or Team" is responsible for the actions of the script?
[08:41] <flacoste> SteveA: exactly
[08:41] <SteveA> ok
[08:42] <SteveA> the first question to ask yourself is, do we have a Team that fits this role well already
[08:42] <SteveA> if so, then use that team
[08:42] <SteveA> if not, we need a new Person/Team for this
[08:43] <flacoste> SteveA: apart from the admin Team, I don't see any of the existing celebrities meaningful in that context
[08:44] <kiko> malcc, cprov: can I get an opinion up at https://launchpad.net/products/soyuz/+bug/50399 -- ?
[08:44] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 50399 in soyuz "Broken links at /people/$person/+packages" [High,In progress]  
[08:44] <kiko> malcc, cprov: I'm not sure what the right fix is -- should distro release pages exist for the removed packages?
[08:45] <SteveA> flacoste: not just celebrities, but Teams that exist already
[08:45] <SteveA> for example, the shipit admins team is used for some particular things in shipit
[08:45] <flacoste> SteveA: you mean on Launchpad?
[08:45] <SteveA> yes, in production
[08:45] <cprov> kiko: yes, I've fixed the base methods sometime ago
[08:45] <SteveA> if you know of any, that's fine
[08:45] <SteveA> if you don't, that's fine too.  we'll create a new one.
[08:46] <cprov> kiko: but, there is a space constraint in that page that we should consider
[08:46] <flacoste> SteveA: you think it should be a team?
[08:46] <kiko> cprov, cool comment on the bug
[08:46] <cprov> kiko: yup
[08:48] <SteveA> flacoste: yes.  we don't have an explicit distinction between a person, a team and a robot
[08:48] <SteveA> I think we should do but we haven't thought it through yet
[08:48] <SteveA> so our convention is that scripts that need a personality in launchpad get a team
[08:49] <SteveA> and perhaps, the person responsible for the script should be in the team
[08:49] <SteveA> I think we'll have robots eventually
[08:49] <flacoste> SteveA: some simple searches didn't turn out any team that suits the purpose
[08:49] <mhb> hm ... (this is really not the best place to ask, but) how can you add a Wiki: URL  entry in your LP team account? I can't seem to find the right place where to do that ...
[08:49] <SteveA> to add the celeb, you need a name for the team, get it added to sample data, add it manually to production (saves a DB patch)
[08:50] <kiko> mhb, that's good ole bug 2369!
[08:50] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 2369 in launchpad "Some people don't have a Ubuntu WikiName" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/2369
[08:50] <SteveA> and then add it as a celebrity
[08:51] <flacoste> SteveA: ok, what do you think of Support Tracker Administrators? we already have Rosetta Administrators, Bounty Administrators, etc.
[08:51] <SteveA> sure, that's a good precedent to follow
[08:51] <SteveA> unless we have a new name for the support tracker :-)
[08:51] <SteveA> is it "the answer machine" or something now?
[08:52] <kiko> we don't have a name for it, though questions and answers was good...
[08:52] <SteveA> QandA
[08:52] <SteveA> Quanda
[08:52] <flacoste> we have Answers and Questions, but the discussion never reached a conclusion, although most people thought that Support was fine
[08:52] <kiko> stop brandifying
[08:52] <kiko> I think support is a no-go 
[08:52] <SteveA> Que?
[08:53] <kiko> because of the confusion with commercial services
[08:53] <kiko> right now the code has some bent towards "tickets", btw.
[08:53] <kiko> there is precedent
[08:53] <kiko> and people are even using it to place requests on launchpad admins!
[08:53] <kiko> scary
[08:53] <flacoste> kiko: i know, but the thing is that the plan is to turn the thing in a support market eventually, we'll have to rename it again at that time
[08:53] <SteveA> what does google call these things...?
[08:53] <SteveA> google answers I think
[08:53] <kiko> flacoste, I am not sure the plan will pan out like that.
[08:54] <BjornT> SteveA, flacoste: fwiw, i don't think a team is always a good choice for "script personalities". for example, if the UI will show that this person/team changed a ticket, then it looks really weird if a team did the change.
[08:54] <mhb> kiko: and the best workaround for that is?
[08:54] <flacoste> BjornT, SteveA: in that case, it will
[08:54] <SteveA> BjornT: what will look weird?
[08:54] <kiko> mhb, add the wikilink to the team's homepage content.
[08:54] <mhb> ok
[08:55] <flacoste> we will see a message from the Support Tracker Team
[08:55] <SteveA> Support tracker admins ?
[08:55] <flacoste> SteveA: right
[08:55] <BjornT> SteveA: if a ticket was closed by the Suppport Tracker Team, with a few members. who did the change? why did the team end up as the "changer", and not the one who did the change?
[08:55] <SteveA> I think it meakes sense that the support tracker admins are administring the support tracker
[08:56] <SteveA> the homepage text can explain that it's a robot
[08:56] <SteveA> that closes old tickets or whatever it needs to do
[08:56] <SteveA> but I don't mind either way.
[08:56] <SteveA> as I said, I think we'll have explicit robots in not so long anyway
[08:57] <BjornT> but if it's called Support Tracker Admins, it should have members that can admin the support tracker, shouldn't it?
[08:57] <flacoste> BjornT: that makes sense, but is outside of the scope of the current requirement
[08:57] <kiko-zzz> BjornT, we could add launchpad admins to that team!
[08:58] <flacoste> BjornT, SteveA: maybe I should use a person named 'Support Tracker Janitor'
[08:58] <BjornT> flacoste: yeah. my point was that if that team has real members, it can't really have a description explaining that it's a robot. and it it's named like a robot, it doesn't really make sense to have it as a team.
[08:59] <flacoste> BjornT: i'll go with the Janitor then, it's more specific and to the point
[09:02] <SteveA> flacoste: that's fine
[09:02] <SteveA> thanks for the discussion flacoste, BjornT 
[09:02] <flacoste> yeah, thank you both!
[09:02] <flacoste> SteveA: btw, did you receive my email regarding UDS?
[09:04] <SteveA> flacoste: just seen it now
[09:04] <SteveA> I've highlighted it, and I'll reply tomorrow
[09:05] <flacoste> SteveA: ok, thanks
[09:26] <_Nightwish_> hi
[09:27] <_Nightwish_> danilos, jel si prisutan?
[09:27] <danilos> _Nightwish_: jesam, al' te nista ne razumem ;)
[09:28] <_Nightwish_> odlicno
[09:28] <_Nightwish_> a ja ne mogu da ti saljem private
[09:28] <_Nightwish_> jel nisam regovan
[09:28] <_Nightwish_> kako da ugasim nalog na launchpadu?
[09:28] <_Nightwish_> ne vredi
[09:28] <LarstiQ> what language is that?
[09:28] <_Nightwish_> ja tebi ne mogu da saljem
[09:29] <_Nightwish_> Serbian
[09:29] <danilos> _Nightwish_: hm, da li si bilo sta radio na launchpad.net?
[09:29] <_Nightwish_> ne
[09:29] <LarstiQ> _Nightwish_: haven't seen it before, not sure how it would sound
[09:29] <danilos> _Nightwish_: pa otkud ti nalog? uvezen iz Debiana, neke Bugzille ili?
[09:30] <_Nightwish_> mozda sam se regovao, davno
[09:30] <_Nightwish_> negde
[09:30] <_Nightwish_> ali nisam koristio
[09:30] <_Nightwish_> i juce se regujem i vidim da sad imam dva naloga
[09:30] <danilos> LarstiQ: you might get a chance to hear it on AllHands2006 if you're coming ;)
[09:30] <_Nightwish_> pa bih jedan da ugasim
[09:30] <danilos> _Nightwish_: onda koristi +mergeaccounts
[09:30] <LarstiQ> danilos: I'm not a Hand, so no ;)
[09:30] <danilos> time ces spojiti oba, odnosno ugasiti drugi
[09:30] <_Nightwish_> kako to da izvedem?
[09:31] <danilos> LarstiQ: ah, ok, I've seen you around a lot, so I just guessed you are :P
[09:31] <_Nightwish_> sta je allhands 2006?
[09:32] <LarstiQ> danilos: nope, just an active bzr user :)
[09:32] <danilos> _Nightwish_: cek da pogledam tacno
[09:32] <_Nightwish_> ok
[09:33] <_Nightwish_> LarstiQ, where are U from?
[09:33] <danilos> _Nightwish_: https://launchpad.net/people/+requestmerge i launchpad.net/faq
[09:34] <_Nightwish_> thx
[09:34] <_Nightwish_> danilos, are u busy?
[09:35] <danilos> _Nightwish_: sort of, why do you wonder; btw, lets keep Serbian in #launchpad-serbian
[09:35] <_Nightwish_> ok
[09:35] <LarstiQ> _Nightwish_: The Netherlands.
[09:36] <SteveA> LarstiQ: hey, cool.  I'm moving there soon.
[09:36] <LarstiQ> SteveA: you are? Cool!
[09:36] <LarstiQ> SteveA: which part?
[09:37] <SteveA> LarstiQ: Amsterdam
[09:38] <LarstiQ> ok, that's decently visitable for me.
[09:38] <bradb> anywhere with a red light district is!
[09:38] <bradb> er
[09:38] <LarstiQ> bradb: I could stay in Den Haag if I wanted that :P
[09:39] <bradb> heh
[09:40] <SteveA> There are more straightforward and cheaper ways of shopping for groceries.
[09:40] <SteveA> LarstiQ: where in NL are you?
[09:40] <_Nightwish_> danilos, i did ti. thx!
[09:40] <LarstiQ> SteveA: Den Haag / The Hague.
[09:40] <danilos> _Nightwish_: no problem, glad you made it ;)
[09:41] <_Nightwish_> danilos, could you check something for me? i started to translate wiki page, could u look at it?
[09:41] <danilos> _Nightwish_: sure, but I don't really understand where do you want me to help?
[09:41] <_Nightwish_> just to see if all is ok
[09:42] <_Nightwish_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DialupModemHowto_sr
[09:44] <flacoste> BjornT, SteveA: ping
[09:45] <danilos> _Nightwish_: looks fine to me ;)
[09:46] <danilos> _Nightwish_: except that it should be Cyrillic :P
[09:46] <_Nightwish_> ql, thx again
[09:46] <_Nightwish_> yea, i forgoted, u are from gnome team? right?
[09:47] <SteveA> flacoste: yep?
[09:47] <flacoste> SteveA: should I give a password, email address to the celebrity?
[09:47] <SteveA> LarstiQ: sure, then when I am actually there, we should meet up and experience gezelligheid
[09:48] <LarstiQ> haha :)
[09:48] <LarstiQ> SteveA: sure, I'd like that.
[09:48] <LarstiQ> SteveA: where did you learn 'gezelligheid' from?
[09:48] <SteveA> originally , martijn faassen
[09:50] <SteveA> ik auk spreek een klein bitje nederlands
[09:50] <SteveA> (althoiugh I can't spell it)
[09:50] <SteveA> flacoste: I don't know.  The minimum necessary not to break things, I think
[09:53] <LarstiQ> SteveA: we'll get you up to speed, don't worry :)
[09:53] <LarstiQ> SteveA: might I ask why you're moving over?
[09:57] <SteveA> lots of reasons :-)
[09:57] <SteveA> and cute girls who ride bicycles everywhere might be one of them
[09:58] <danilos> _Nightwish_: right, among other things ;)
[09:58] <_Nightwish_> danilos, kako placaju ovi iz kanonikala?
[09:59] <danilos> _Nightwish_: samo forinte, kao vole madjare i tako to ;)
[09:59] <BjornT> flacoste: i think you should give the celebrity a confirmed email address, but not a password.
[09:59] <_Nightwish_> danilos, lol
[09:59] <danilos> _Nightwish_: inace, sasvim solidno :)
[09:59] <flacoste> BjornT: what's the best way to create such a person? INSERT INTO or use an API method in make harness?
[10:01] <SteveA> you'll need to prepare a database patch for production
[10:02] <SteveA> that inserts that item
[10:02] <SteveA> or at least a thing for stu to do
[10:02] <SteveA> and also to update the sample data to include that record
[10:02] <flacoste> SteveA: once I've got the person in sample data, it is easy to do the DB patch, it's just the initial records in sample data that I'm wondering how to create?
[10:02] <BjornT> flacoste: the safest way is probably to create a script that creates the person using PersonSet. but INSERT statements would work as well.
[10:03] <BjornT> flacoste: you can't to it as a real db patch, though. you have to leave it in schema/pending, and make sure that stub runs it when rolling out the revision.
[10:04] <flacoste> BjornT: ok, i'll update sample data using PersonSEt and create a SQL script in pending for that
[10:04] <SteveA> it can be done on production immediately your code passes review
[10:04] <SteveA> so, it doesn't need to be synchronized exactly with the rollout
[10:05] <BjornT> flacoste: you should talk to salgado about this person creation, though. he is currently adding a creation rationale to all Persons, and this celebrity would need a creation rationale as well.
[10:06] <flacoste> BjornT: thanks for reminding me of that
[10:10] <salgado> BjornT, flacoste, I guess we need a new item in PersonCreationRationale to use in entries like the bugzilla importer and this one the support tracker janitor. what do you guys think?
[10:10] <flacoste> salgado: something like ROBOT?
[10:11] <BjornT> salgado: yeah, i think so too.
[10:11] <salgado> flacoste, I was thinking of something like LAUNCHPAD_REQUIRED
[10:12] <salgado> so that we can use it for other things that are not actual robots, if we ever have any of them
[10:12] <flacoste> salgado: more generic, indeed
[10:14] <flacoste> BjornT: do you have a suggestion for the email address?
[10:14] <flacoste> BjornT: more precisely, should it be a valid email address?
[10:14] <BjornT> salgado: if we don't have any other use cases for LAUNCHPAD_REQUIRED, i think it doesn't hurt to be more specific.
[10:16] <flacoste> support-tracker-janitor(at)launchpad.net?
[10:16] <salgado> BjornT, agreed. but I don't like ROBOT because it doesn't make much sense as a rationale. do you have any idea on what to call it?
[10:16] <BjornT> flacoste: how about janitor@tickets.lp.net?
[10:17] <flacoste> BjornT: i prefer yours! should I file a RT to make than address work, currently, it will be dropped by our incoming processor
[10:18] <flacoste> BjornT: actually, the current domain for incoming support email is support.launchpad.net
[10:19] <BjornT> flacoste: not sure if it's worth making a special mailbox for it yet. it's a valid address, emails sent to it will end up in the launchpad-error-reports list.
[10:19] <BjornT> flacoste: right. it should be on the support domain.
[10:19] <flacoste> BjornT: ok, I'll use janitor@support.launchpad.net 
[10:21] <BjornT> salgado: i don't like ROBOT as a creation rational either. can't think of anything better atm, though.
[10:25] <SteveA> it is really funny to use robot actually
[10:25] <SteveA> because that means "traffic light" in south africa
[10:26] <bradb> I, Traffic Light
[10:26] <flacoste> BjornT: why is is_valid_person still False after createPersonAndEmail and validateAndEnsurePrefferedEmail?
[10:27] <LarstiQ> bradb: heh
[10:27] <BjornT> flacoste: because it doesn't have a password. i don't think you want it to be a valid person, do you? i.e. do you want it to be possible for example assign tickets or bugs to it?
[10:27] <flacoste> BjornT: no
[10:28] <BjornT> ok, so that it's good that it's not a valid person.
[10:28] <flacoste> BjornT: fine, I was just afraid that something might break if that wasn't the case
[10:30] <flacoste> to what DB, make harness connects to?
[10:30] <salgado> launchpad_dev
[10:31] <flacoste> hmm, ok
[10:31] <flacoste> so i should see my changes after a transaction.commit()
[10:32] <salgado> I guess you need transactionmgr.commit()
[10:32] <BjornT> flacoste: not sure transaction.commit() works in make harness. if not, use transactionmgr.commit() instead.
[10:32] <kiko-zzz> I don't think it does so yes
[10:32] <flacoste> transactionmgr? from where does this comes from?
[10:33] <BjornT> flacoste: if you look in canonical/database/harness.py you see that it's the result from a initZopeless call
[10:34] <flacoste> i see, it is a globs 
[10:34] <flacoste> i don't need to import it
[10:38] <kiko-zzz> you don't need to import anything in harness.py!
[10:39] <kiko-zzz> it comes with battery included
[10:39] <kiko-zzz> it is "the future" as salgado likes to say
[10:40] <sivang> kiko-zzz: you could reimport some of the stuff just to make the test probably clearer. Python will disregard it anyways if it's already in IIRC.
[10:45] <kiko-zzz> sivang, shh, don't bring facts into this discussion
[10:45] <sivang> HAHA
[10:57] <ddaa> as a matter of fact
[10:58] <ddaa> lifeless once told me he wanted to hack python so it would automatically try to imports names that are not found in the global scope
[10:58] <ddaa> so maybe it is _indeed_ the future :)
[11:01] <LarstiQ> what happened with explicit is better than implicit?
[11:02] <LarstiQ> already there are lookup rules people not familiar with python will trip over.
[11:02] <ddaa> that was back when lifeless had not had enough Python Kool-Aid, I presume
[11:03] <lifeless> well
[11:03] <lifeless> the point was that if there was a single explicit name in the namespace
[11:03] <lifeless> then bringing in names is predictable
[11:03] <lifeless> and the '4 billion' imports problem goes away
[11:04] <lifeless> in fact, I was given some good advice on how to make it happen as a module. Perhaps I should just get around to it
[11:04] <ddaa> yeah, I can imagine you could make it work using the right black magic
[11:05] <lifeless> oh yeah, good morning $folk
[11:08] <LarstiQ> hi lifeless :)