=== minghua [n=minghua@ppp-70-128-94-236.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === vorbote [n=camael@unaffiliated/vorbote] has joined #ubuntu-devel === doko_ [n=doko@dslb-088-073-126-081.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:19] fabbione: will edgy have a supported sparc release? [12:19] morning jdub [12:20] <_ion> or m68k? === Mik3 [i=moviez79@ool-4577797b.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ogra [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Gman [i=gman@nat/sun/x-c3abad95c6a2a82a] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ivoks [n=ivoks@ubuntu/member/ivoks] has joined #ubuntu-devel === givre [n=flo@APuteaux-152-1-13-179.w82-120.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:41] god praise backups! [12:43] siretart: what did you destroy? === MikeJS [n=mike@24.151.112.174] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:43] ajmitch: my desktop workstation by trying to upgrade to edgy [12:43] ouch [12:44] ajmitch: /sbin/discover decided to hang in state D :/ as well as mdadm [12:45] while trying to restore my backups, I fell over #63398 (and filed it afterwards) [12:45] bug 63398 [12:45] Malone bug 63398 in Ubuntu "[regression] live cd doesn't support lvm/md (software raid) devices" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/63398 [12:46] hm, serious === ajmitch needs access to lvm+raid for those times he breaks things [12:47] oh, it's quite handy [12:47] espc. when the desktop cd can actually access them in case of emergency and for restore purposes. [12:48] I'm a bit angry about myself for giving my last dapper desktop cd away only a few hours before :/ [12:48] so I had to redownload it [12:48] ajmitch: just get some old disks and stick them in an md/lvm setup [12:50] HrdwrBoB_: that' [12:50] that's fine [12:50] assuming that there are some old disks around [12:50] but the bug should still be fixed if possible === max_ [n=max@dialup-4.235.241.182.Dial1.Orlando1.Level3.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === givre [n=flo@APuteaux-152-1-13-179.w82-120.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === jinty [n=jinty@42.Red-83-49-48.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === max_ [n=max@dialup-4.235.241.182.Dial1.Orlando1.Level3.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:03] how ready is edgy? === vorbote [n=camael@unaffiliated/vorbote] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:03] as ready as pie === HrdwrBoB_ is now known as HrdwrBoB === shackan [n=shackan@host168-12-dynamic.17-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:05] pie before you place in oven :) === mbiebl [n=michael@dslb-084-057-248-025.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === AlinuxOS [n=alinux@d83-184-200-179.cust.tele2.it] has joined #ubuntu-devel === tormod [n=tormod@80-219-112-71.dclient.hispeed.ch] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Ex-Chat"] === max_ [n=max@dialup-4.254.141.160.Dial1.Orlando1.Level3.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mdke [n=matt@ubuntu/member/mdke] has joined #ubuntu-devel === pvanhoof [n=pvanhoof@d54C18260.access.telenet.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Fujitsu [n=fujitsu@203.23.49.35] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jldugger [n=jldugger@adsl-71-149-200-224.dsl.tpkaks.sbcglobal.net] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] === Weirdbro [n=Weirdbro@pool-151-197-183-37.phil.east.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:15] You devs going to go along with the Debian Firefox renaming? === Weirdbro [n=Weirdbro@pool-151-197-183-37.phil.east.verizon.net] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Ex-Chat"] === licio [n=licio@ubuntu/member/licio] has joined #ubuntu-devel === gort [n=jgbiggs@cpe-24-175-15-146.houston.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflying [n=freeflyi@ubuntu/member/freeflying] has joined #ubuntu-devel === trickie_ [n=nick@basesoft.demon.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflying [n=freeflyi@ubuntu/member/freeflying] has joined #ubuntu-devel === minghua is now known as ming|away === ne78 [n=ne@cust-179-151.dsl.versateladsl.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel === TomB| [n=ownthebo@host217-44-6-189.range217-44.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === bmonty [n=bmontgom@ubuntu/member/bmonty] has joined #ubuntu-devel === dark [i=deviled_@microsoft.gotrooted.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jdong [n=jdong@ubuntu/member/jdong] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jdong_ [n=jdong@d192-24-235-141.try.wideopenwest.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === FliesLikeALap [n=Ryan@vpnwl-229-34.net.rpi.edu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mempf-edgy [n=mempf@S0106000129f69144.vs.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === minghua [n=minghua@danube.mems.rice.edu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Yagisan [n=Yagisan@doomsday/developer/Yagisan] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Arrogance [n=aks@ottawa-hs-209-217-96-133.d-ip.magma.ca] has joined #ubuntu-devel === zul_ [n=chuck@CPE0006258ec6c1-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lastnode [n=lastnode@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ogra [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:26] jdub: yes [05:26] morning btw === MikeJS [n=mike@24.151.112.174] has joined #ubuntu-devel === rideout [n=rideout@c-67-172-142-46.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === serris [n=serris@host-87-74-127-87.bulldogdsl.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mempf [n=mempf@S0106000129f69144.vs.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === stub [n=stub@ppp-58.8.1.194.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:59] ajmitch: why is f-spot not built on sparc? [05:59] isn't f-spot mono stuff? [06:03] yes, it is [06:04] it's Arch: any, so I'll check it out === abattoir [n=abattoir@cm61.omega22.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ajmitch guesses it or mono were blavklisted on sparc at some point [06:05] infinity: are you able to check if that's the case? [06:06] edgy sparc Successfully built [06:06] ^^ mono [06:06] no good reason why f-spot shouldn't build then [06:06] infinity: ^^ [06:07] I suspect launchpad is still using an ancient copy of P-a-s - they've had a lot of issues re-implementing P-a-s support, not sure if they're resolved yet or not [06:07] elmo: ok thanks.. [06:08] right === j_ack [n=rudi@p508DA117.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:13] fabbione: rock :-) === User75 [n=root@202.87.217.146] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:24] jdub: of course we are talking about -server only [06:24] not desktop yet === j_ack_ [n=rudi@p508D8A5B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:27] Hi, I need help, I want to change the data of some UDP packet passing through my linux router === User75 [n=root@202.87.217.146] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] [06:28] wow. [06:28] heh [06:31] impressive patience === Xoff [n=mas01cr@158.223.59.22] has joined #ubuntu-devel === pradeep [n=pradeep@59.92.86.137] has joined #ubuntu-devel === j_ack [n=rudi@p508D8A5B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === sfllaw [i=sfllaw@debian/developer/coleSLAW] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:52] fabbione: ah [06:53] jdub: assuming that for edgy+1 i will have more time and sparc/desktop gears, i might be able to get it done in the next 6 months [06:54] but it's an assumption [06:57] Hmm. WHat is to be expected out of Normal User interaction with our LP bugs? [06:57] From a customer/non-customer service POV. === slomo [n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Amaranth [n=travis@ubuntu/member/amaranth] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lastnode_ [n=lastnode@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === stu1 [n=stub@ppp-58.8.3.98.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflying [n=freeflyi@61.190.64.118] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:18] elmo: I have P-a-s auto-updating now, actually, but that doesn't mean f-spot isn't still blacklisted in Debian. We'll see. [07:18] ajmitch: I'll look into it. [07:20] elmo: Yeah, actually, looks like P-a-s being implemented correctly finally is the cause of the problem, since Debian's P-a-s still exclused sparc from mono stuff. === infinity fixes. === robitaille [n=daniel@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Seveas [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:25] whould anyone mind explaining to me in privmsg how to generate the cd isos from seeds? there seems to not be any documentation on the process === `anthony [n=anthony@ekorp-218-185-9-170.eoff.ekorp.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:32] infinity: that's because Debian rejected our mono/sparc patches waiting for an upstream release [07:33] but we know we work there === lastnode__ [n=lastnode@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:50] Oh, feh. So the fact that I just updated Debian's P-a-s to allow mono on sparc is wrong? Great. [07:50] I guess I might have to fork/branch P-a-s at some point, if they won't take those patches. [07:51] Anyhow, it works for now. [07:51] ajmitch: It'll build when OOo and gcc-snapshot stop plugging up the buildds. [07:52] infinity: afaik the new mono upstream release has sparc [07:52] not sure if the debian/mono maintainer did care to tell buildd admins to update Pas [07:52] just let it there and see what happens :) === orion2012 [n=orion201@cpe-70-114-30-76.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Fujitsu [n=fujitsu@203.23.49.35] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jlj [n=agp@adsl-69-104-142-228.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === pitti [n=pitti@ubuntu/member/pitti] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:58] Good morning [07:58] hey pitti [07:59] infinity: thanks for that [07:59] morning pitti === Fujitsu_ [n=Fujitsu@c58-107-60-250.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Fujitsu_ [n=fujitsu@203.23.49.35] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lastnode_ [n=lastnode@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:09] hey Hobbsee [08:09] moin ajmitch === ming|away is now known as minghua [08:11] wth is P-a-s? :P [08:12] Chipzz: a file that tells the buildd that package foo should build or not on a certain architecture === nags [n=nags@125.22.100.59] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Norgz [n=eroux@maisel-gw.enst-bretagne.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:17] pitti: bug #62972 [08:17] Malone bug 62972 in linux-source-2.6.17 "leaves core files behind after calling crashdump-helper" [High,Fix committed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/62972 [08:17] fabbione: I saw BenC's upload [08:17] pitti: kernel side has been done by Ben with 10.25 [08:17] ok [08:17] fabbione: and that I have to clean up in apport now [08:18] fabbione: thanks [08:18] pitti: perfect [08:18] fabbione: strange, it's nontrivial to unlink a file in the kernel? === stub [n=stub@ppp-58.8.3.98.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Lure [n=lure@ubuntu/member/lure] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:20] pitti: so it seems.. i didn't check code or anything.. just going trough the bug list for release [08:20] ok, fine; I adapted the bug accordingly === pitti reboots, brb === pitti [n=pitti@ubuntu/member/pitti] has joined #ubuntu-devel === carlos [n=carlos@180.Red-88-18-199.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === shenki [n=shenki@ppp108-134.lns4.adl4.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === glatzor [n=sebi@ppp-82-135-74-159.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:37] fabbione: oh, I was thinking some kind of abbrevation like g-p-m or stuff like that [08:40] Chipzz: yes, packages-arch-specific === martink_ [n=martin@c-71-198-1-147.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mempf [n=mempf@S0106000129f69144.vs.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === marilize [n=marilize@196.36.161.235] has joined #ubuntu-devel === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #ubuntu-devel === seb128 [n=seb128@ubuntu/member/seb128] has joined #ubuntu-devel === NthDegree [n=IDENT@194-247-239-162.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === givre [n=flo@APuteaux-152-1-13-3.w82-120.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Zdra [n=zdra@61.167-247-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lukketto [n=lukketto@host100-158-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:14] I see that the Server Install CD installs kernel -server, but the Server installation from the Alternate CD does not, instead it installs -386. Is there a reasoning for this? [09:15] froud, the server CD is for installing servers. The alternate CD isn't. [09:15] froud: No room on the alternate CD for extra kernels, and we expect people to do server installs form the server CD. [09:16] froud: That installation method on the alternate CD will be renamed to something like "minimal" (undecided currently) for edgy to reflect the fact that it's not "the server install" [09:17] infinity: uh it's called a "Command line install" AFAIK on the new edgy Alternate CDs [09:17] Man, I could work nearly fulltime on queue/new alone some days.. [09:17] NthDegree, yes, it was renamed a couple of days back. [09:17] NthDegree: Ahh, yes. Though there was still some contention about that. :) [09:17] NthDegree: It may stick, though. [09:17] I like it personally [09:17] and the CD was the 1st one that actually worked in ages [09:18] Well, anything's better than "server", which doesn't do what people expect. [09:18] people think RHEL when they hear "server" and Linux [09:18] so they assume they get a GUI too :| [09:19] infinity: did you look at http://librarian.launchpad.net/4565707/buildlog_ubuntu-edgy-i386.xffm-proc_4.5.0-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz ? [09:19] tfheen: Cute. [09:20] it works in a normal system here, so I'm at a bit of a loss to understand what's happening === lukketto [n=lukketto@host100-158-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has left #ubuntu-devel [] [09:21] tfheen: Err, wait. procps isn't {Build-,}Essential. [09:21] tfheen: Just a missing build-dep. [09:22] tfheen: (Or need to preseed configure with /bin/ps, if it's not actually going to use it, but just wants to know you have it) === infinity notes that sparc succeeded, and goes to clean out the sparc chroot a bit. [09:26] Fujitsu: infinity: "Command Line Install"is about as misleading as "Install Text Mode". Alternate CD should provide basic installation of server (sans LAMP) and text mode should provide user ability to install with desktop or without. The OEM installation should enable preseed possabilities for desktop and server. Just a thought [09:28] Ugh, apt's autoremove does some Very Bad Things in the face of transitional packages. [09:28] I wonder if there's a way around that at all... === lfittl [n=lfittl@194.50.115.210] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lastnode [n=lastnode@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:29] The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required: [09:29] upstart-compat-sysv pkgbinarymangler startup-tasks system-services upstart [09:29] All obviously BS. [09:29] What? You don't need those. They're not system critical at all. [09:30] infinity: isn't that in buildd chroot? [09:30] Actually, I'm curious how upstart got in that list, since it wasn't the product of a transitional package update... [09:30] infinity: if so why would you need upstart? [09:31] fabbione: sysvinit used to be Essential: Yes. If upstart isn't, I can remove it, and will. [09:31] Perhaps apt's trying to be smart there. [09:31] It's is clearly wrong about pkgbinarymangler, however, which was installed as a result of a transition from pkgstriptranslations. === lucas [n=lucas@ubuntu/member/lucas] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:31] Oh well. [09:31] i thought upstart was Essential: yes ? [09:31] Doesn't appear to be. [09:31] It was made Essential, then that was reverted, I guess. === infinity removes. [09:33] Hrm, but sysv-rc kinda wants /sbin/runlevel, and that is Essential: Yes, so I suspect a missing dep here... [09:39] infinity: it's priority: required, though [09:39] but that might not count? [09:39] tfheen: Doesn't matter. [09:39] tfheen: Lots of stuff is required that isn't build-essential. [09:40] 'k [09:40] Toadstool: ^^^ [09:41] tfheen: Anyhow, looking at what configure does with it (checks for valid switches to ps, etc), the build-dep would be needed, since it'll actually use it. [09:41] infinity: yeah, hence why I didn't just say "oh, just preseed it" [09:43] "Applications can not close shared connections. Please fix this in your app. Ignoring close request and continuing." [09:43] ^^ who the hell is spawning this message? [09:43] (when playing dvd with xine) [09:45] fabbione: could be dbus [09:45] fabbione: yup, confirmed, that string is in libdbus [09:46] hmmm === Keybuk [n=scott@syndicate.netsplit.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:46] so why didn't we see this before and it is coming out all of a sudden? === givre [n=flo@APuteaux-152-1-60-114.w82-120.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lastnode_ [n=lastnode@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === NthDegree [n=IDENT@194-247-239-162.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lastnode__ [n=lastnode@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mvo [n=egon@p54A66650.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === dholbach [n=daniel@i577B33A5.versanet.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:05] good morning [10:05] hi === shenki [n=shenki@ppp108-134.lns4.adl4.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:06] mvo: you up yet? === Gman [i=gman@nat/sun/x-5c91331bbec6cb82] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:12] Burgundavia: yes, hello [10:14] mvo: does the language support tool still ask users to reload the language pack info? [10:15] mvo: So, is there anything magical we can do to make transitional packages not completely confuse apt's autoremove DB? === tkamppeter [i=till@nat/mandriva/x-c6cda8525bb40290] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:16] good morning tkamppeter [10:16] hey infinity [10:16] Burgundavia: yes it does [10:17] mvo: Take the classic case where fileutils depended on coreutils, if you removed fileutils, you'd then end up with apt helpfully telling you that coreutils was no longer useful. :) [10:17] mvo: perfect, thanks [10:17] mvo: A contrived example, sure. I just saw it with pkgstriptranslations->pkgbinarymangler, and it annoyed me. :) [10:18] mvo: I also saw it with upstart and friends, and I'm not sure why there. I think perhaps because it was Essential:yes for a while, so technically "auto-installed", then stopped being Essential, so was deemed expendable. [10:18] infinity: you would have to use "apt-mark unmarkauto pkgbinarymangler" (or synaptics gui). currently apt has no idea about transition packages unfortunately [10:19] infinity: essential packages are automatically considered manual installed (wanted) :) [10:19] dholbach, good morning [10:20] infinity: but upstart depends on ubuntu-minimal, so apt shouldn't think it can remove it [10:20] mvo: Are they? Then how the heck did I get "upstart-compat-sysv pkgbinarymangler startup-tasks system-services upstart" in my removal list? [10:20] mvo: buildd chroots don't have ubuntu-minimal installed. :) [10:21] infinity: heh :) that would explain this one [10:21] mvo: What I was guessing was that, for the few days that upstart was Essential, I upgraded, which forced installation, but also marked it auto. Internally, apt ignores that auto (because it's essential), but when we demoted them, it started paying attention again. Sound about right? [10:22] ogra: new gnome-power-manager! [10:22] mvo: If that's what happened, I can live with that, cause it was a mistake for us to mark it Essential in the first place, and in general, demoting something from Essential should make it removeable. [10:23] mvo: It just seemed kinda weird. :) === HiddenWolf [n=HiddenWo@136.4.dynamic.phpg.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:23] infinity: yeah, that totally makes sense :) [10:23] infinity: just use apt-mark to get rid of it then === sabdfl [n=sabdfl@ubuntu/member/pdpc.silver.sabdfl] has joined #ubuntu-devel === trickie [n=nick@basesoft.demon.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Huahua [n=hua_@123.49.239.84] has joined #ubuntu-devel === thekorn [n=markus@a81-14-182-46.net-htp.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === givr1 [n=flo@APuteaux-152-1-50-116.w82-120.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Keybuk wonders how you run a program with a controlling tty === Xoff is now known as Xof [10:30] pitti, doko_: biff [10:30] hi tkamppeter [10:31] tkamppeter: can do. will take 12h anyway until it hits the archive [10:32] hi pitti === giftnudel [n=mb@p54B29E76.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflying [n=freeflyi@61.190.64.118] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jinty [n=jinty@42.Red-83-49-48.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === _human_blip_ [n=mike@220.157.65.29] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflying [n=freeflyi@ubuntu/member/freeflying] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lmanul [n=manu@dan75-4-82-239-58-38.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:43] mvo: ping? [10:43] fabbione: pong === freeflying [n=freeflyi@ubuntu/member/freeflying] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:45] doko_: OK, go ahead. [10:46] pitti: around for a moment? [10:46] Keybuk: yes, I am [10:46] you've dealt with a few of the daemons that needed a /proc/bus/usb -> /dev/bus/usb conversion [10:46] can you remember off-hand which way they check? [10:46] I've suddenly had a bad thought that something might check for /proc before /dev [10:47] so when we enable usbfs again, they'll break because those devices can only be read by root === seb128 [n=seb128@ubuntu/member/seb128] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:53] Keybuk: can't say in general, but for libgphoto in particular I made sure that it checks /dev first [10:55] do you remember what cups does? === pitti checks [10:57] Keybuk: ah, cups uses /dev/usblp or /dev/usb/lp [10:57] Keybuk: it doesn't use the raw devices at all === thekorn [n=markus@a81-14-182-46.net-htp.de] has left #ubuntu-devel [] [10:59] cool === givre [n=flo@APuteaux-152-1-50-116.w82-120.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Hadaka [i=naked@naked.iki.fi] has left #ubuntu-devel [] [11:03] tkamppeter, doko_: I'll test the new foomatic-db-engine and upload === givre [n=flo@APuteaux-152-1-50-116.w82-120.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:05] tkamppeter: interesting, since a few days, cups autodetects a 'HP Fax' device for me, although I don't have anything resembling such a thing [11:08] tkamppeter, doko_: uploaded; works great === fabbione [i=fabbione@gordian.fabbione.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Gman [i=gman@nat/sun/x-7621ebc8bad73587] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lastnode_ [n=lastnode@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Spads [n=spacehob@217.205.109.249] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Tonio__ [n=tonio@94.8.100-84.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mbiebl [n=michael@dslb-084-056-249-084.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lastnode [n=lastnode@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Kamion [n=cjwatson@xenophobe.extern.relativity.greenend.org.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:49] Kamion: Connected from the new place? [11:49] StevenK: not quite yet - working from iwj's today [11:49] should be connected by tomorrow [11:49] Ah [11:49] But you've been kicked out of the old place? [11:50] not quite that either, but I've moved all the computers === StevenK shakes his head. [11:51] Moving is complicated enough, but that seems *too* complicated. :-) [11:51] it's got to be done at some point [11:52] hi Colin [11:53] Kamion: I went through the moving fun one year ago, and I don't want to again for quite some time. === stub [n=stub@ppp-58.8.3.98.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #ubuntu-devel === heno [n=henrik@ti200720a080-6108.bb.online.no] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:57] tfheen: mind if I upload the pending casper stuff? [11:58] Kamion: please. I'm fighting with the expenses system. [11:58] iwj_: fontconfig ping (about the rendering for the UI fonts in firefox and openoffice.org) [12:00] doko_: Err, hello. [12:00] But I'm afraid I don't know what you're referring to ... [12:01] iwj_: can you see the difference in how the UI elements are rendered in gedit/gnome-terminal and firefox/OOo? === Gloubiboulga [n=gauvain@ubuntu/member/gloubiboulga] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:02] I can see a difference which I think is to do with kerning. [12:03] Hmm, also, the firefox one is a touch smaller. [12:03] Is that what you mean ? [12:03] do you have a gnome desktop running? [12:03] Not normally :-) but I will have one in just a moment ... [12:05] dholbach, i was fearing you would say that today :) [12:05] iwj: http://librarian.launchpad.net/4542766/Screenshot.png [12:05] ogra: "fear" - it's not that bad, is it? [12:08] It doesn't look quite the same here, but I can still see a difference. [12:09] dholbach, nah ... :) [12:10] I much prefer the OOo rendering in that screenshot [12:10] seb128: does gnome uses it's own pango settings for the kerning/rendering? ^^^ [12:10] <_ion> keybuk: Re: the OpenOffice discussion at ubuntu-devel@, IMO even WYSIWYG is a feature that has better alternatives. :-) [12:10] doko_: it uses what you configure with gnome-font-properties [12:11] doko_: What exactly is your complaint/question/opinion/... ? [12:11] doko_: that looks just like the difference between autohinting and bytecode-hinting to me [12:11] pitti, the auto-detection of a fax device comes from HPLIP 1.6.7, this bug is fixed in 1.6.9. They have fixed it after my upstream bug report and I have already tested on Mandriva that it is fixed now. [12:11] doko_: my debian unstable has the same problem (since OO.o 2.0rc3 I think) [12:11] Currently I am waiting for Debian picking up HPLIP 1.6.9. [12:11] tkamppeter: ah, good to know [12:12] tkamppeter: is mdz fine with 1.6.9 for edgy? [12:12] doko_: if you turn off the bytecode hinting and turn on autohint I believe OO.o and abiword will look the same [12:12] pitti, I did not post an UVF ER yet. [12:13] minghua: will have to check ... [12:13] pitti, but there is already a Ubuntu bug report about this: bug 62506 [12:13] Malone bug 62506 in gnome-cups-manager "Incorrectly Detects HP Fax device" [Medium,Needs info] http://launchpad.net/bugs/62506 [12:14] ah, nice === twilight [n=twilight@ubuntu/member/twilight] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:14] doko_: you know how to do it, right? if ubuntu's fontconfig is the same as debian's, dpkg-reconfigure fontconfig-config should do it [12:16] TheMuso: Hey Luke, did you notice festival spinning CPU like mad in edgy recently? [12:16] pitti, perhaps we must overgo Debian here, as they seem not to be much interested in HPLIP 1.6.9. They have still only 1.6.7. [12:17] tkamppeter: I don't see a problem with that === lfittl [n=lfittl@81-223-149-226.rasumofskygasse.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:18] minghua: hmm, doesn't make a difference [12:18] doko_: hmm, strange === tortoise_ [n=tortoise@194.164.140.64] has joined #ubuntu-devel === RicardoPerez [n=A@84-122-157-132.onocable.ono.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:18] but beta's hinting is strange [12:18] pitti: ping [12:19] hi RicardoPerez [12:19] pitti: hi! i have a question... mmmm.... [12:19] doko, doko_: shall we upgrade pysupport to 0.5.2 for edgy? a user had a problem with dbus-python which disappeared after upgrading pysupport and from the changelog it looks rather sane [12:19] there is also bug #60760 about hinting [12:19] Malone bug 60760 in freetype "turning off autohinting has no effect" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/60760 [12:19] pitti: what is the package (or Rosetta's template) which contains the volume & drive names? [12:19] slomo: yes please [12:20] RicardoPerez: 'contains'? [12:20] pitti: the volumes that appears in Places->Computer [12:20] RicardoPerez: that's gnome-vfs2 [12:20] doko_: ok, i'll care for it, thanks :) [12:20] doko_: sorry I don't have edgy to test, but that screenshot looks exactly the same at my unstable (I also use arial as interface font there) [12:20] pitti: mmmmm I can't find that template in Rosetta... [12:20] carlos: ^ ? [12:20] pitti: can you send me the link? [12:21] s/at/as/ [12:21] RicardoPerez: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+source/gnome-vfs2/+translations [12:21] carlos: (nevermind) [12:21] minghua: we use DejaVu, not Arial, but both are ttf fonts [12:21] doko_: Is that screenshot DejaVu extra light? [12:21] pitti: oh, great, thanks! it's related to bug 62502 [12:21] Malone bug 62502 in hal "[Edgy] Volume names appears untranslated" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/62502 [12:22] doko: that screenshot definitely is not dejavu sans (regular) [12:22] pitti: ok [12:22] pitti: the volumes appears untranslated, but the gnome-vfs2 template is fully translated in Rosetta [12:22] minghua: fc-match show DejaVu-Sans for Sans [12:23] RicardoPerez: did you try the current daily edgy langpacks? [12:24] RicardoPerez: please check the mo files in them [12:24] doko_: for the machine that took the screenshot http://librarian.launchpad.net/4542766/Screenshot.png ? [12:24] yes, I just installed it, but doesn't works... [12:25] pitti: yes, the .mo file contains the translation, as I said in the bugreport [12:25] doko_: then I have no idea, it looks just like Arial to me. if you want, I can even show screenshots [12:25] RicardoPerez: hm, then this must be a bug in gnome-vfs2 itself [12:25] pitti: then I'll change the bugreport from hal to gnome-vfs2, is right? [12:26] RicardoPerez: right, I just did that [12:26] pitti: oh, great :) === pitti takes the bug [12:26] doko_: maybe gnome-font-settting is different? [12:26] pitti: thanks === olemke [n=olemke@193.10.130.160] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lastnode [n=lastnode@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === `anthony [n=anthony@220-253-50-7.VIC.netspace.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jinty [n=jinty@205.Red-83-56-149.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lastnode_ [n=lastnode@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:37] doko_: I found another way to test the hinting: use the gnome "desktop -> preference -> font" dialog, go to "details", and try different choices in the hinting section, which gives quite different effects [12:38] doko_: and the change is instant, also I believe OO.o is not affected by this gnome setting === lastnode [n=lastnode@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:40] minghua: right, but firefox is affected as well (therefore the question to iwj_ about our change/hack to fontconfig/pango) === lloydinho [n=andreas@stop.codon.org.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:42] doko_: What question ? [12:42] I mean, what is your question/comment/complaint/... ? [12:42] doko_: I see. [12:43] iwj: maybe you can look at bug #60760, too? I suspect it's related to doko's question [12:43] Malone bug 60760 in freetype "turning off autohinting has no effect" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/60760 [12:43] iwj: the problem in 60760 is a user sees font rendering changes after upgrading to edgy === iwj looks. [12:44] iwj: and ignore my comments there, it may be off-base [12:44] They upgrade and the behaviour of the software changes. That doesn't seem to me a sufficient condition for a bug ... [12:44] iwj: sorry, i meant they upgrade from pre-beta to beta [12:45] iwj: it's just some people prefer bytecode hinting to freetype autohinting [12:45] iwj: and according to the user, bytecode hinting is now not available in edgy beta [12:45] iwj: that sound a bug to me [12:46] Err, yes, probably. Has anyone debugged it properly ? [12:46] It's definitely nothing to do with the firefox/fontconfig/pango FC_ANY_METRICS patches. [12:47] iwj: not as far as I know. and I don't have time to debug it now, sorry [12:47] Right. === Lure_ [n=lure@external-7.hermes.si] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Gman is now known as GmanAFK === Kamion [n=cjwatson@chiark.greenend.org.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === RicardoPerez [n=A@84-122-157-132.onocable.ono.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === pirast [n=martin@p508B219F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === givre [n=flo@APuteaux-152-1-50-116.w82-120.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel === rodarvus [n=rodarvus@ubuntu/member/rodarvus] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mbiebl [n=michael@dslb-084-056-214-119.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === cr3 [n=marc@pdpc/supporter/bronze/cr3] has joined #ubuntu-devel === pitti [n=pitti@ubuntu/member/pitti] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:33] carlos: is it possible to put kcmlocale near the top of items to be translated? it's needed to be able to select the language in kde's system settings === RicardoPerez [n=A@84-122-157-132.onocable.ono.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:34] Riddell: sure, we can raise its priority [01:34] Riddell: edgy and dapper ? or just edgy? [01:35] I've worked out why my computer every now and then says "And we're going to interview Bob Plums..." === eggauah [n=daniel@201.72.60.231] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:36] it's not some random ogg buffer problem, or sound card driver bug [01:36] eh? [01:36] it's nautilus [01:36] Keybuk: lugradio [01:36] if you point the mouse at a sound file, it starts playing it [01:36] Keybuk: hover sample? [01:36] and there's a sound file on my desktop [01:36] yeah === Hobbsee [n=user@14.5.233.220.exetel.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:37] Oh, that's just wrong. [01:37] and if I switch desktops, sometimes the mouse briefly hovers over it on the way between them :) [01:37] Hover sample for audio is just plain dumb. [01:37] pepsiman: aye, it's the episode I was in, innit [01:37] Keybuk: :) [01:37] <_ion> I like the feature. [01:37] I like the feature so much, I'm about to write a patch disabling it, and upload it without telling seb :) [01:38] carlos: both would be nice [01:38] Riddell: done for Edgy and Dapper, it has the same priority as kdelibs [01:38] carlos: you should have all needed .desktop translation files now, some I've renamed to be the same as upstream [01:38] <_ion> keybuk: Why not just change the setting? ;-) [01:38] carlos: Where do manpages, doc and help translations done in Rosetta end up? They're not in the langpacks [01:38] _ion: "the setting" ? [01:39] <_ion> keybuk: The setting. [01:39] what's the setting? [01:39] <_ion> The "Preview sound files" setting in nautilus preferences. [01:39] Riddell: ok, I will rename the ones we already imported and import the new ones. Thank you! [01:39] <_ion> (surprisingly) [01:39] Nautilus properties -> Preview. === Keybuk can't see anything in the right mouse properties thing [01:39] But having it on by default still feels wrong to me. [01:39] uh [01:39] how do I get to the nautilus preferences? [01:39] Keybuk: open a nautilus window, Edit->Preferences. [01:39] it's not in my Preferences Menu [01:40] gah === gnomefreak [n=gnomefre@adsl-221-54-152.rmo.bellsouth.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:40] that's broken [01:40] Keybuk: Say, Places->Home, for instance. [01:40] pepsiman: atm they stay in Rosetta, I got already the approve to stop importing them into Rosetta until we have an automatic way to publish them in Ubuntu like we do with language packs [01:40] you should be able to change the desktop preferences without opening some random indow [01:40] pepsiman: so I'm going to hide them from the UI so people don't expend time on them [01:40] <_ion> keybuk: Something opened from the context menu of a directory would be a wrong place to put program's global preferences into. [01:40] _ion: agree, it should be under System->Preferences [01:41] System->Preferences->File Manager would be nice, yeah. [01:41] didn't we used to have that? [01:41] No idea. === Keybuk bets jdub removed it in one of his culls [01:41] well, I have a desktop->preference->file management on debian [01:41] Could have been cleaned out due to someone's fascist "you can get there from elsewhere, and that menu is cluttered" thing. [01:41] carlos: I see, that's a shame, when translating them into en_GB I get to proofread them [01:42] minghua: Guess that answers that. [01:42] the same facism that leaves dozens of users hunting for the button on the login screen that accepts their username [01:42] Yeah, File Management is there in the Menu Editor, it's just invisible by default. [01:44] yeah, I remember now, ubuntu hides all nautilus entries in the menu [01:44] also the applications->system tools->file brower one [01:44] ogra: have you seen this "Applications can not close shared connections" error from 'gnome-screensaver-command --poke'? [01:45] Kamion: I've seen that === Gloubiboulga [n=gauvain@ubuntu/member/gloubiboulga] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:45] which means it's very hard to get a browser nautilus window [01:45] Kamion, nope ... [01:45] sounds like a dbus message [01:46] it is [01:46] pepsiman: Well, with every Ubuntu release, we get something else implemented to add support for this kind of things so I hope it will not take too much time until we implement something to support documentation in a way quite similar as language packs [01:46] just running 'gnome-screensaver-command --poke' from a terminal reproduces it for me, but this is a live CD from late last week [01:46] Kamion: someone was talking about that earlier [01:46] (as in the actual bug cause) === fatal__ [i=gem@gamezone.fjortis.info] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:47] carlos: decent man page translation is going to have to wait for groff Unicode support to be finished up [01:47] infinity: why do you need it, nautilus preferences are available from any nautilus window [01:48] seb128: How many poeple know what that means? [01:48] seb128: If your desktop is doing weird things (say, playing sounds when you hover over stuff), is it intuitive to open your "home folder" to fix it? [01:48] opening preferences of the program you use is common behaviour? [01:48] seb128: It may be to you and I, cause we know that it's "all nautilus", but "normal users" would have no clue. [01:48] you want gedit preferences to the panel menu too? :p [01:48] Kamion: well, anyway, we are not able to ship them as part of language packs so it's not an issue right now [01:49] seb128: I only care about gedit preferences when I'm running gedit, it doesn't affect my "desktop", which users don't really assign an application to. [01:49] infinity: I doubt people will go to system, preferences, file browser to change that anyway [01:49] seb128: I think a lot of users don't realize their desktop is a part of nautilus [01:49] seb128: I dare you to find 1 out of 10 non-nerd users who know that their desktop is a nautilus window. [01:49] I've missed the start of the conversation [01:49] seb128: I just tried to [01:49] I didn't know it was about the desktop :p [01:49] my desktop was behaving oddly [01:50] and I _know_ that it's nautilus [01:50] if sound preview is confusing maybe it should be off by default [01:50] it never occurred to me to open a nautilus window to change how the desktop behaved [01:50] seb128: Oh, I think it should be off by default, but that's orthoganal to the "how do I make my desktop behave differently when I don't know it's nautilus" thing. [01:50] it never occured to me that you had to change the way the desktop behaves [01:50] that's about the only setting for the desktop [01:51] Alternately, adding "Preferences" (or even "Nautilus Preferences", as a bit of education that the desktop is nautilus) exclusively to the Desktop context menu, but not to any other folders, might be nice. [01:51] seb128: single vs. double-click too [01:51] Keybuk: that's not desktop specific though [01:51] neither is hover-sound-preview [01:51] carlos: Is bug 62668 a rosetta problem? [01:51] Malone bug 62668 in language-pack-gnome-es "[Edgy] Some strings can't be translated" [Undecided,Confirmed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/62668 [01:51] right [01:51] but it DOES change the way the desktop behaves [01:52] and it's totally non-obvious to open a file manager window to change that [01:52] it would be misleading to call that "desktop preferences" [01:52] System -> Preferences -> Icon Behaviour [01:52] seb128: No, hence my suggestion of "Nautilus Preferences", but only on the desktop context menu, not for any other folders. [01:52] context menu is not discoverable [01:52] I like infinity's idea [01:52] seb128: For other folders, it's obvious you're in a nautilus window, and you can get at Edit->Preferences, but not on the desktop. [01:52] right [01:53] then we need a simplier dialog with those preferences [01:53] I don't think the nautilus preferences one is good to expose to the menu [01:53] pepsiman: yes, it is, but I just fixed it. Thanks for noting it to me [01:53] with the list of columns, etc [01:53] Well, "Preview Preferences" could open the Nautilus pref window, but paged to the Preview page. [01:54] I tend to think it's good education to clue people in to the fact that Nautilus==Desktop==FileManager, but in a friendly way. [01:54] right, but Scott just mentionned the "simple/double click" is useful too [01:54] Reusing the same dialog, but paging to a different page by default helps that. [01:54] Microsoft tends to do that all over Windows, to clue you in that "Time and Date" and "International Settings" and such are all tied together, etc. === mat|work [n=mat@igoan/mat] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:55] Just page to the one they asked for, but you start to get the idea that, hey, all these pages might relate. === Hobbsee_ [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:55] anyway I've no strong opinion about it [01:56] we masked it because the preferences menu is already too long [01:56]