[12:19] <jdub> fabbione: will edgy have a supported sparc release?
[12:19] <ajmitch> morning jdub 
[12:20] <_ion> or m68k?
[12:41] <siretart> god praise backups!
[12:43] <ajmitch> siretart: what did you destroy?
[12:43] <siretart> ajmitch: my desktop workstation by trying to upgrade to edgy
[12:43] <ajmitch> ouch
[12:44] <siretart> ajmitch: /sbin/discover decided to hang in state D :/ as well as mdadm
[12:45] <siretart> while trying to restore my backups, I fell over #63398 (and filed it afterwards)
[12:45] <siretart> bug 63398
[12:45] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 63398 in Ubuntu "[regression]  live cd doesn't support lvm/md (software raid) devices" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63398
[12:46] <ajmitch> hm, serious
[12:47] <siretart> oh, it's quite handy
[12:47] <siretart> espc. when the desktop cd can actually access them in case of emergency and for restore purposes. 
[12:48] <siretart> I'm a bit angry about myself for giving my last dapper desktop cd away only a few hours before :/
[12:48] <siretart> so I had to redownload it
[12:48] <HrdwrBoB_> ajmitch: just get some old disks and stick them in an md/lvm setup
[12:50] <ajmitch> HrdwrBoB_: that'
[12:50] <ajmitch> that's fine
[12:50] <ajmitch> assuming that there are some old disks around
[12:50] <ajmitch> but the bug should still be fixed if possible
[01:03] <max_> how ready is edgy?
[01:03] <HrdwrBoB_> as ready as pie
[01:05] <gnomefreak> pie before you place in oven :)
[02:15] <Weirdbro> You devs going to go along with the Debian Firefox renaming?
[05:26] <fabbione> jdub: yes
[05:26] <fabbione> morning btw
[05:59] <fabbione> ajmitch: why is f-spot not built on sparc?
[05:59] <fabbione> isn't f-spot mono stuff?
[06:03] <ajmitch> yes, it is
[06:04] <ajmitch> it's Arch: any, so I'll check it out
[06:05] <ajmitch> infinity: are you able to check if that's the case?
[06:06] <fabbione>  edgy sparc   Successfully built
[06:06] <fabbione> ^^ mono
[06:06] <ajmitch> no good reason why f-spot shouldn't build then
[06:06] <fabbione> infinity: ^^
[06:07] <elmo> I suspect launchpad is still using an ancient copy of P-a-s - they've had a lot of issues re-implementing P-a-s support, not sure if they're resolved yet or not
[06:07] <fabbione> elmo: ok thanks..
[06:08] <ajmitch> right
[06:13] <jdub> fabbione: rock :-)
[06:24] <fabbione> jdub: of course we are talking about -server only
[06:24] <fabbione> not desktop yet
[06:27] <User75> Hi, I need help, I want to change the data of some UDP packet passing through my linux router
[06:28] <desrt> wow.
[06:28] <Lathiat> heh
[06:31] <ajmitch> impressive patience
[06:52] <jdub> fabbione: ah
[06:53] <fabbione> jdub: assuming that for edgy+1 i will have more time and sparc/desktop gears, i might be able to get it done in the next 6 months
[06:54] <fabbione> but it's an assumption
[06:57] <wasabi> Hmm. WHat is to be expected out of Normal User interaction with our LP bugs?
[06:57] <wasabi> From a customer/non-customer service POV.
[07:18] <infinity> elmo: I have P-a-s auto-updating now, actually, but that doesn't mean f-spot isn't still blacklisted in Debian.  We'll see.
[07:18] <infinity> ajmitch: I'll look into it.
[07:20] <infinity> elmo: Yeah, actually, looks like P-a-s being implemented correctly finally is the cause of the problem, since Debian's P-a-s still exclused sparc from mono stuff.
[07:25] <joejaxx> whould anyone mind explaining to me in privmsg how to generate the cd isos from seeds? there seems to not be any documentation on the process
[07:32] <fabbione> infinity: that's because Debian rejected our mono/sparc patches waiting for an upstream release
[07:33] <fabbione> but we know we work there 
[07:50] <infinity> Oh, feh.  So the fact that I just updated Debian's P-a-s to allow mono on sparc is wrong?  Great.
[07:50] <infinity> I guess I might have to fork/branch P-a-s at some point, if they won't take those patches.
[07:51] <infinity> Anyhow, it works for now.
[07:51] <infinity> ajmitch: It'll build when OOo and gcc-snapshot stop plugging up the buildds.
[07:52] <fabbione> infinity: afaik the new mono upstream release has sparc
[07:52] <fabbione> not sure if the debian/mono maintainer did care to tell buildd admins to update Pas
[07:52] <fabbione> just let it there and see what happens :)
[07:58] <pitti> Good morning
[07:58] <Hobbsee> hey pitti 
[07:59] <ajmitch> infinity: thanks for that
[07:59] <ajmitch> morning pitti 
[08:09] <pitti> hey Hobbsee 
[08:09] <pitti> moin ajmitch 
[08:11] <Chipzz> wth is P-a-s? :P
[08:12] <fabbione> Chipzz: a file that tells the buildd that package foo should build or not on a certain architecture
[08:17] <fabbione> pitti: bug #62972
[08:17] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62972 in linux-source-2.6.17 "leaves core files behind after calling crashdump-helper" [High,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62972
[08:17] <pitti> fabbione: I saw BenC's upload
[08:17] <fabbione> pitti: kernel side has been done by Ben with 10.25
[08:17] <fabbione> ok
[08:17] <pitti> fabbione: and that I have to clean up in apport now
[08:18] <pitti> fabbione: thanks
[08:18] <fabbione> pitti: perfect
[08:18] <pitti> fabbione: strange, it's nontrivial to unlink a file in the kernel?
[08:20] <fabbione> pitti: so it seems.. i didn't check code or anything.. just going trough the bug list for release
[08:20] <pitti> ok, fine; I adapted the bug accordingly
[08:37] <Chipzz> fabbione: oh, I was thinking some kind of abbrevation like g-p-m or stuff like that
[08:40] <ajmitch> Chipzz: yes, packages-arch-specific
[09:14] <froud> I see that the Server Install CD installs kernel -server, but the Server installation from the Alternate CD does not, instead it installs -386. Is there a reasoning for this?
[09:15] <Fujitsu> froud, the server CD is for installing servers. The alternate CD isn't.
[09:15] <infinity> froud: No room on the alternate CD for extra kernels, and we expect people to do server installs form the server CD.
[09:16] <infinity> froud: That installation method on the alternate CD will be renamed to something like "minimal" (undecided currently) for edgy to reflect the fact that it's not "the server install"
[09:17] <NthDegree> infinity: uh it's called a "Command line install" AFAIK on the new edgy Alternate CDs
[09:17] <infinity> Man, I could work nearly fulltime on queue/new alone some days..
[09:17] <Fujitsu> NthDegree, yes, it was renamed a couple of days back.
[09:17] <infinity> NthDegree: Ahh, yes.  Though there was still some contention about that. :)
[09:17] <infinity> NthDegree: It may stick, though.
[09:17] <NthDegree> I like it personally
[09:17] <NthDegree> and the CD was the 1st one that actually worked in ages
[09:18] <infinity> Well, anything's better than "server", which doesn't do what people expect.
[09:18] <NthDegree> people think RHEL when they hear "server" and Linux
[09:18] <NthDegree> so they assume they get a GUI too :|
[09:19] <tfheen> infinity: did you look at http://librarian.launchpad.net/4565707/buildlog_ubuntu-edgy-i386.xffm-proc_4.5.0-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz ?
[09:19] <infinity> tfheen: Cute.
[09:20] <tfheen> it works in a normal system here, so I'm at a bit of a loss to understand what's happening
[09:21] <infinity> tfheen: Err, wait.  procps isn't {Build-,}Essential.
[09:21] <infinity> tfheen: Just a missing build-dep.
[09:22] <infinity> tfheen: (Or need to preseed configure with /bin/ps, if it's not actually going to use it, but just wants to know you have it)
[09:26] <froud> Fujitsu: infinity: "Command Line Install"is about as misleading as "Install Text Mode". Alternate CD should provide basic installation of server (sans LAMP) and text mode should provide user ability to install with desktop or without. The OEM installation should enable preseed possabilities for desktop and server. Just a thought
[09:28] <infinity> Ugh, apt's autoremove does some Very Bad Things in the face of transitional packages.
[09:28] <infinity> I wonder if there's a way around that at all...
[09:29] <infinity> The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required:
[09:29] <infinity>   upstart-compat-sysv pkgbinarymangler startup-tasks system-services upstart
[09:29] <infinity> All obviously BS.
[09:29] <Fujitsu> What? You don't need those. They're not system critical at all.
[09:30] <fabbione> infinity: isn't that in buildd chroot?
[09:30] <infinity> Actually, I'm curious how upstart got in that list, since it wasn't the product of a transitional package update...
[09:30] <fabbione> infinity: if so why would you need upstart?
[09:31] <infinity> fabbione: sysvinit used to be Essential: Yes.  If upstart isn't, I can remove it, and will.
[09:31] <infinity> Perhaps apt's trying to be smart there.
[09:31] <infinity> It's is clearly wrong about pkgbinarymangler, however, which was installed as a result of a transition from pkgstriptranslations.
[09:31] <infinity> Oh well.
[09:31] <fabbione> i thought upstart was Essential: yes ?
[09:31] <infinity> Doesn't appear to be.
[09:31] <infinity> It was made Essential, then that was reverted, I guess.
[09:33] <infinity> Hrm, but sysv-rc kinda wants /sbin/runlevel, and that is Essential: Yes, so I suspect a missing dep here...
[09:39] <tfheen> infinity: it's priority: required, though
[09:39] <tfheen> but that might not count?
[09:39] <infinity> tfheen: Doesn't matter.
[09:39] <infinity> tfheen: Lots of stuff is required that isn't build-essential.
[09:40] <tfheen> 'k
[09:40] <tfheen> Toadstool: ^^^
[09:41] <infinity> tfheen: Anyhow, looking at what configure does with it (checks for valid switches to ps, etc), the build-dep would be needed, since it'll actually use it.
[09:41] <tfheen> infinity: yeah, hence why I didn't just say "oh, just preseed it"
[09:43] <fabbione> "Applications can not close shared connections.  Please fix this in your app.  Ignoring close request and continuing."
[09:43] <fabbione> ^^ who the hell is spawning this message?
[09:43] <fabbione> (when playing dvd with xine)
[09:45] <pitti> fabbione: could be dbus
[09:45] <pitti> fabbione: yup, confirmed, that string is in libdbus
[09:46] <fabbione> hmmm
[09:46] <fabbione> so why didn't we see this before and it is coming out all of a sudden?
[10:05] <dholbach> good morning
[10:05] <Treenaks> hi
[10:06] <Burgundavia> mvo: you up yet?
[10:12] <mvo> Burgundavia: yes, hello
[10:14] <Burgundavia> mvo: does the language support tool still ask users to reload the language pack info?
[10:15] <infinity> mvo: So, is there anything magical we can do to make transitional packages not completely confuse apt's autoremove DB?
[10:16] <dholbach> good morning tkamppeter
[10:16] <dholbach> hey infinity
[10:16] <mvo> Burgundavia: yes it does
[10:17] <infinity> mvo: Take the classic case where fileutils depended on coreutils, if you removed fileutils, you'd then end up with apt helpfully telling you that coreutils was no longer useful. :)
[10:17] <Burgundavia> mvo: perfect, thanks
[10:17] <infinity> mvo: A contrived example, sure.  I just saw it with pkgstriptranslations->pkgbinarymangler, and it annoyed me. :)
[10:18] <infinity> mvo: I also saw it with upstart and friends, and I'm not sure why there.  I think perhaps because it was Essential:yes for a while, so technically "auto-installed", then stopped being Essential, so was deemed expendable.
[10:18] <mvo> infinity: you would have to use "apt-mark unmarkauto pkgbinarymangler" (or synaptics gui). currently apt has no idea about transition packages unfortunately
[10:19] <mvo> infinity: essential packages are automatically considered manual installed (wanted) :)
[10:19] <tkamppeter> dholbach, good morning
[10:20] <mvo> infinity: but upstart depends on ubuntu-minimal, so apt shouldn't think it can remove it
[10:20] <infinity> mvo: Are they?  Then how the heck did I get "upstart-compat-sysv pkgbinarymangler startup-tasks system-services upstart" in my removal list?
[10:20] <infinity> mvo: buildd chroots don't have ubuntu-minimal installed. :)
[10:21] <mvo> infinity: heh :) that would explain this one
[10:21] <infinity> mvo: What I was guessing was that, for the few days that upstart was Essential, I upgraded, which forced installation, but also marked it auto.  Internally, apt ignores that auto (because it's essential), but when we demoted them, it started paying attention again.  Sound about right?
[10:22] <dholbach> ogra: new gnome-power-manager!
[10:22] <infinity> mvo: If that's what happened, I can live with that, cause it was a mistake for us to mark it Essential in the first place, and in general, demoting something from Essential should make it removeable.
[10:23] <infinity> mvo: It just seemed kinda weird. :)
[10:23] <mvo> infinity: yeah, that totally makes sense :)
[10:23] <mvo> infinity: just use apt-mark to get rid of it then
[10:30] <tkamppeter> pitti, doko_: biff
[10:30] <pitti> hi tkamppeter 
[10:31] <doko_> tkamppeter: can do. will take 12h anyway until it hits the archive
[10:32] <tkamppeter> hi pitti
[10:43] <fabbione> mvo: ping?
[10:43] <mvo> fabbione: pong
[10:45] <tkamppeter> doko_: OK, go ahead.
[10:46] <Keybuk> pitti: around for a moment?
[10:46] <pitti> Keybuk: yes, I am
[10:46] <Keybuk> you've dealt with a few of the daemons that needed a /proc/bus/usb -> /dev/bus/usb conversion
[10:46] <Keybuk> can you remember off-hand which way they check?
[10:46] <Keybuk> I've suddenly had a bad thought that something might check for /proc before /dev
[10:47] <Keybuk> so when we enable usbfs again, they'll break because those devices can only be read by root
[10:53] <pitti> Keybuk: can't say in general, but for libgphoto in particular I made sure that it checks /dev first
[10:55] <Keybuk> do you remember what cups does?
[10:57] <pitti> Keybuk: ah, cups uses /dev/usblp or /dev/usb/lp
[10:57] <pitti> Keybuk: it doesn't use the raw devices at all
[10:59] <Keybuk> cool
[11:03] <pitti> tkamppeter, doko_: I'll test the new foomatic-db-engine and upload
[11:05] <pitti> tkamppeter: interesting, since a few days, cups autodetects a 'HP Fax' device for me, although I don't have anything resembling such a thing
[11:08] <pitti> tkamppeter, doko_: uploaded; works great
[11:49] <StevenK> Kamion: Connected from the new place?
[11:49] <Kamion> StevenK: not quite yet - working from iwj's today
[11:49] <Kamion> should be connected by tomorrow
[11:49] <StevenK> Ah
[11:49] <StevenK> But you've been kicked out of the old place?
[11:50] <Kamion> not quite that either, but I've moved all the computers
[11:51] <StevenK> Moving is complicated enough, but that seems *too* complicated. :-)
[11:51] <Kamion> it's got to be done at some point
[11:52] <tfheen> hi Colin
[11:53] <StevenK> Kamion: I went through the moving fun one year ago, and I don't want to again for quite some time.
[11:57] <Kamion> tfheen: mind if I upload the pending casper stuff?
[11:58] <tfheen> Kamion: please.  I'm fighting with the expenses system.
[11:58] <doko_> iwj_: fontconfig ping (about the rendering for the UI fonts in firefox and openoffice.org)
[12:00] <iwj_> doko_: Err, hello.
[12:00] <iwj_> But I'm afraid I don't know what you're referring to ...
[12:01] <doko_> iwj_: can you see the difference in how the UI elements are rendered in gedit/gnome-terminal and firefox/OOo?
[12:02] <iwj_> I can see a difference which I think is to do with kerning.
[12:03] <iwj_> Hmm, also, the firefox one is a touch smaller.
[12:03] <iwj_> Is that what you mean ?
[12:03] <doko_> do you have a gnome desktop running?
[12:03] <iwj_> Not normally :-) but I will have one in just a moment ...
[12:05] <ogra> dholbach, i was fearing you would say that today :)
[12:05] <doko_> iwj: http://librarian.launchpad.net/4542766/Screenshot.png
[12:05] <dholbach> ogra: "fear" - it's not that bad, is it?
[12:08] <iwj_> It doesn't look quite the same here, but I can still see a difference.
[12:09] <ogra> dholbach, nah ... :)
[12:10] <Kamion> I much prefer the OOo rendering in that screenshot
[12:10] <doko_> seb128: does gnome uses it's own pango settings for the kerning/rendering? ^^^
[12:10] <_ion> keybuk: Re: the OpenOffice discussion at ubuntu-devel@, IMO even WYSIWYG is a feature that has better alternatives. :-)
[12:10] <seb128> doko_: it uses what you configure with gnome-font-properties
[12:11] <iwj_> doko_: What exactly is your complaint/question/opinion/... ?
[12:11] <minghua> doko_: that looks just like the difference between autohinting and bytecode-hinting to me
[12:11] <tkamppeter> pitti, the auto-detection of a fax device comes from HPLIP 1.6.7, this bug is fixed in 1.6.9. They have fixed it after my upstream bug report and I have already tested on Mandriva that it is fixed now.
[12:11] <minghua> doko_: my debian unstable has the same problem (since OO.o 2.0rc3 I think)
[12:11] <tkamppeter> Currently I am waiting for Debian picking up HPLIP 1.6.9.
[12:11] <pitti> tkamppeter: ah, good to know
[12:12] <pitti> tkamppeter: is mdz fine with 1.6.9 for edgy?
[12:12] <minghua> doko_: if you turn off the bytecode hinting and turn on autohint I believe OO.o and abiword will look the same
[12:12] <tkamppeter> pitti, I did not post an UVF ER yet.
[12:13] <doko_> minghua: will have to check ...
[12:13] <tkamppeter> pitti, but there is already a Ubuntu bug report about this: bug 62506
[12:13] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62506 in gnome-cups-manager "Incorrectly Detects HP Fax device" [Medium,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62506
[12:14] <pitti> ah, nice
[12:14] <minghua> doko_: you know how to do it, right?  if ubuntu's fontconfig is the same as debian's, dpkg-reconfigure fontconfig-config should do it
[12:16] <dholbach> TheMuso: Hey Luke, did you notice festival spinning CPU like mad in edgy recently?
[12:16] <tkamppeter> pitti, perhaps we must overgo Debian here, as they seem not to be much interested in HPLIP 1.6.9. They have still only 1.6.7.
[12:17] <pitti> tkamppeter: I don't see a problem with that
[12:18] <doko_> minghua: hmm, doesn't make a difference
[12:18] <minghua> doko_: hmm, strange
[12:18] <minghua> but beta's hinting is strange
[12:18] <RicardoPerez> pitti: ping
[12:19] <pitti> hi RicardoPerez 
[12:19] <RicardoPerez> pitti: hi! i have a question... mmmm....
[12:19] <slomo> doko, doko_: shall we upgrade pysupport to 0.5.2 for edgy? a user had a problem with dbus-python which disappeared after upgrading pysupport and from the changelog it looks rather sane
[12:19] <minghua> there is also bug #60760 about hinting
[12:19] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 60760 in freetype "turning off autohinting has no effect" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/60760
[12:19] <RicardoPerez> pitti: what is the package (or Rosetta's template) which contains the volume & drive names?
[12:19] <doko_> slomo: yes please
[12:20] <pitti> RicardoPerez: 'contains'?
[12:20] <RicardoPerez> pitti: the volumes that appears in Places->Computer
[12:20] <pitti> RicardoPerez: that's gnome-vfs2
[12:20] <slomo> doko_: ok, i'll care for it, thanks :)
[12:20] <minghua> doko_: sorry I don't have edgy to test, but that screenshot looks exactly the same at my unstable (I also use arial as interface font there)
[12:20] <RicardoPerez> pitti: mmmmm I can't find that template in Rosetta...
[12:20] <pitti> carlos: ^ ?
[12:20] <RicardoPerez> pitti: can you send me the link?
[12:21] <minghua> s/at/as/
[12:21] <pitti> RicardoPerez: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+source/gnome-vfs2/+translations
[12:21] <pitti> carlos: (nevermind)
[12:21] <doko_> minghua: we use DejaVu, not Arial, but both are ttf fonts
[12:21] <minghua> doko_: Is that screenshot DejaVu extra light?
[12:21] <RicardoPerez> pitti: oh, great, thanks! it's related to bug 62502
[12:21] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62502 in hal "[Edgy]  Volume names appears untranslated" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62502
[12:22] <minghua> doko: that screenshot definitely is not dejavu sans (regular)
[12:22] <carlos> pitti: ok
[12:22] <RicardoPerez> pitti: the volumes appears untranslated, but the gnome-vfs2 template is fully translated in Rosetta
[12:22] <doko_> minghua: fc-match show DejaVu-Sans for Sans
[12:23] <pitti> RicardoPerez: did you try the current daily edgy langpacks?
[12:24] <pitti> RicardoPerez: please check the mo files in them
[12:24] <minghua> doko_: for the machine that took the screenshot http://librarian.launchpad.net/4542766/Screenshot.png ?
[12:24] <RicardoPerez> yes, I just installed it, but doesn't works...
[12:25] <RicardoPerez> pitti: yes, the .mo file contains the translation, as I said in the bugreport
[12:25] <minghua> doko_: then I have no idea, it looks just like Arial to me.  if you want, I can even show screenshots
[12:25] <pitti> RicardoPerez: hm, then this must be a bug in gnome-vfs2 itself
[12:25] <RicardoPerez> pitti: then I'll change the bugreport from hal to gnome-vfs2, is right?
[12:26] <pitti> RicardoPerez: right, I just did that
[12:26] <RicardoPerez> pitti: oh, great :)
[12:26] <minghua> doko_: maybe gnome-font-settting is different?
[12:26] <RicardoPerez> pitti: thanks
[12:37] <minghua> doko_: I found another way to test the hinting: use the gnome "desktop -> preference -> font" dialog, go to "details", and try different choices in the hinting section, which gives quite different effects
[12:38] <minghua> doko_: and the change is instant, also I believe OO.o is not affected by this gnome setting
[12:40] <doko_> minghua: right, but firefox is affected as well (therefore the question to iwj_ about our change/hack to fontconfig/pango)
[12:42] <iwj> doko_: What question ?
[12:42] <iwj> I mean, what is your question/comment/complaint/... ?
[12:42] <minghua> doko_: I see.
[12:43] <minghua> iwj: maybe you can look at bug #60760, too?  I suspect it's related to doko's question
[12:43] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 60760 in freetype "turning off autohinting has no effect" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/60760
[12:43] <minghua> iwj: the problem in 60760 is a user sees font rendering changes after upgrading to edgy
[12:44] <minghua> iwj: and ignore my comments there, it may be off-base
[12:44] <iwj> They upgrade and the behaviour of the software changes.  That doesn't seem to me a sufficient condition for a bug ...
[12:44] <minghua> iwj: sorry, i meant they upgrade from pre-beta to beta
[12:45] <minghua> iwj: it's just some people prefer bytecode hinting to freetype autohinting
[12:45] <minghua> iwj: and according to the user, bytecode hinting is now not available in edgy beta
[12:45] <minghua> iwj: that sound a bug to me
[12:46] <iwj> Err, yes, probably.  Has anyone debugged it properly ?
[12:46] <iwj> It's definitely nothing to do with the firefox/fontconfig/pango FC_ANY_METRICS patches.
[12:47] <minghua> iwj: not as far as I know.  and I don't have time to debug it now, sorry
[12:47] <iwj> Right.
[01:33] <Riddell> carlos: is it possible to put kcmlocale near the top of items to be translated?  it's needed to be able to select the language in kde's system settings
[01:34] <carlos> Riddell: sure, we can raise its priority
[01:34] <carlos> Riddell: edgy and dapper ? or just edgy?
[01:35] <Keybuk> I've worked out why my computer every now and then says "And we're going to interview Bob Plums..."
[01:36] <Keybuk> it's not some random ogg buffer problem, or sound card driver bug
[01:36] <zul> eh?
[01:36] <Keybuk> it's nautilus
[01:36] <pepsiman> Keybuk: lugradio
[01:36] <Keybuk> if you point the mouse at a sound file, it starts playing it
[01:36] <jdub> Keybuk: hover sample?
[01:36] <Keybuk> and there's a sound file on my desktop
[01:36] <jdub> yeah
[01:37] <infinity> Oh, that's just wrong.
[01:37] <Keybuk> and if I switch desktops, sometimes the mouse briefly hovers over it on the way between them :)
[01:37] <infinity> Hover sample for audio is just plain dumb.
[01:37] <Keybuk> pepsiman: aye, it's the episode I was in, innit
[01:37] <pepsiman> Keybuk: :)
[01:37] <_ion> I like the feature.
[01:37] <Keybuk> I like the feature so much, I'm about to write a patch disabling it, and upload it without telling seb :)
[01:38] <Riddell> carlos: both would be nice
[01:38] <carlos> Riddell: done for Edgy and Dapper, it has the same priority as kdelibs
[01:38] <Riddell> carlos: you should have all needed .desktop translation files now, some I've renamed to be the same as upstream
[01:38] <_ion> keybuk: Why not just change the setting? ;-)
[01:38] <pepsiman> carlos: Where do manpages, doc and help translations done in Rosetta end up?  They're not in the langpacks
[01:38] <Keybuk> _ion: "the setting" ?
[01:39] <_ion> keybuk: The setting.
[01:39] <Keybuk> what's the setting?
[01:39] <_ion> The "Preview sound files" setting in nautilus preferences.
[01:39] <carlos> Riddell: ok, I will rename the ones we already imported and import the new ones. Thank you!
[01:39] <_ion> (surprisingly)
[01:39] <infinity> Nautilus properties -> Preview.
[01:39] <infinity> But having it on by default still feels wrong to me.
[01:39] <Keybuk> uh
[01:39] <Keybuk> how do I get to the nautilus preferences?
[01:39] <infinity> Keybuk: open a nautilus window, Edit->Preferences.
[01:39] <Keybuk> it's not in my Preferences Menu
[01:40] <Keybuk> gah
[01:40] <Keybuk> that's broken
[01:40] <infinity> Keybuk: Say, Places->Home, for instance.
[01:40] <carlos> pepsiman: atm they stay in Rosetta, I got already the approve to stop importing them into Rosetta until we have an automatic way to publish them in Ubuntu like we do with language packs
[01:40] <Keybuk> you should be able to change the desktop preferences without opening some random indow
[01:40] <carlos> pepsiman: so I'm going to hide them from the UI so people don't expend time on them
[01:40] <_ion> keybuk: Something opened from the context menu of a directory would be a wrong place to put program's global preferences into.
[01:40] <Keybuk> _ion: agree, it should be under System->Preferences
[01:41] <infinity> System->Preferences->File Manager would be nice, yeah.
[01:41] <Keybuk> didn't we used to have that?
[01:41] <infinity> No idea.
[01:41] <minghua> well, I have a desktop->preference->file management on debian
[01:41] <infinity> Could have been cleaned out due to someone's fascist "you can get there from elsewhere, and that menu is cluttered" thing.
[01:41] <pepsiman> carlos: I see, that's a shame, when translating them into en_GB I get to proofread them
[01:42] <infinity> minghua: Guess that answers that.
[01:42] <Keybuk> the same facism that leaves dozens of users hunting for the button on the login screen that accepts their username
[01:42] <infinity> Yeah, File Management is there in the Menu Editor, it's just invisible by default.
[01:44] <minghua> yeah, I remember now, ubuntu hides all nautilus entries in the menu
[01:44] <minghua> also the applications->system tools->file brower one
[01:44] <Kamion> ogra: have you seen this "Applications can not close shared connections" error from 'gnome-screensaver-command --poke'?
[01:45] <Keybuk> Kamion: I've seen that
[01:45] <minghua> which means it's very hard to get a browser nautilus window
[01:45] <ogra> Kamion, nope ...
[01:45] <ogra> sounds like a dbus message
[01:46] <Kamion> it is
[01:46] <carlos> pepsiman: Well, with every Ubuntu release, we get something else implemented to add support for this kind of things so I hope it will not take too much time until we implement something to support documentation in a way quite similar as language packs
[01:46] <Kamion> just running 'gnome-screensaver-command --poke' from a terminal reproduces it for me, but this is a live CD from late last week
[01:46] <Keybuk> Kamion: someone was talking about that earlier
[01:46] <Keybuk> (as in the actual bug cause)
[01:47] <Kamion> carlos: decent man page translation is going to have to wait for groff Unicode support to be finished up
[01:47] <seb128> infinity: why do you need it, nautilus preferences are available from any nautilus window
[01:48] <infinity> seb128: How many poeple know what that means?
[01:48] <infinity> seb128: If your desktop is doing weird things (say, playing sounds when you hover over stuff), is it intuitive to open your "home folder" to fix it?
[01:48] <seb128> opening preferences of the program you use is common behaviour?
[01:48] <infinity> seb128: It may be to you and I, cause we know that it's "all nautilus", but "normal users" would have no clue.
[01:48] <seb128> you want gedit preferences to the panel menu too? :p
[01:48] <carlos> Kamion: well, anyway, we are not able to ship them as part of language packs so it's not an issue right now
[01:49] <infinity> seb128: I only care about gedit preferences when I'm running gedit, it doesn't affect my "desktop", which users don't really assign an application to.
[01:49] <seb128> infinity: I doubt people will go to system, preferences, file browser to change that anyway
[01:49] <minghua> seb128: I think a lot of users don't realize their desktop is a part of nautilus
[01:49] <infinity> seb128: I dare you to find 1 out of 10 non-nerd users who know that their desktop is a nautilus window.
[01:49] <seb128> I've missed the start of the conversation
[01:49] <Keybuk> seb128: I just tried to
[01:49] <seb128> I didn't know it was about the desktop :p
[01:49] <Keybuk> my desktop was behaving oddly
[01:50] <Keybuk> and I _know_ that it's nautilus
[01:50] <seb128> if sound preview is confusing maybe it should be off by default
[01:50] <Keybuk> it never occurred to me to open a nautilus window to change how the desktop behaved
[01:50] <infinity> seb128: Oh, I think it should be off by default, but that's orthoganal to the "how do I make my desktop behave differently when I don't know it's nautilus" thing.
[01:50] <seb128> it never occured to me that you had to change the way the desktop behaves
[01:50] <seb128> that's about the only setting for the desktop
[01:51] <infinity> Alternately, adding "Preferences" (or even "Nautilus Preferences", as a bit of education that the desktop is nautilus) exclusively to the Desktop context menu, but not to any other folders, might be nice.
[01:51] <Keybuk> seb128: single vs. double-click too
[01:51] <seb128> Keybuk: that's not desktop specific though
[01:51] <Keybuk> neither is hover-sound-preview
[01:51] <pepsiman> carlos: Is bug 62668 a rosetta problem?
[01:51] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62668 in language-pack-gnome-es "[Edgy]  Some strings can't be translated" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62668
[01:51] <seb128> right
[01:51] <Keybuk> but it DOES change the way the desktop behaves
[01:52] <Keybuk> and it's totally non-obvious to open a file manager window to change that
[01:52] <seb128> it would be misleading to call that "desktop preferences"
[01:52] <Keybuk> System -> Preferences -> Icon Behaviour
[01:52] <infinity> seb128: No, hence my suggestion of "Nautilus Preferences", but only on the desktop context menu, not for any other folders.
[01:52] <seb128> context menu is not discoverable
[01:52] <minghua> I like infinity's idea
[01:52] <infinity> seb128: For other folders, it's obvious you're in a nautilus window, and you can get at Edit->Preferences, but not on the desktop.
[01:52] <seb128> right
[01:53] <seb128> then we need a simplier dialog with those preferences
[01:53] <seb128> I don't think the nautilus preferences one is good to expose to the menu
[01:53] <carlos> pepsiman: yes, it is, but I just fixed it. Thanks for noting it to me
[01:53] <seb128> with the list of columns, etc
[01:53] <infinity> Well, "Preview Preferences" could open the Nautilus pref window, but paged to the Preview page.
[01:54] <infinity> I tend to think it's good education to clue people in to the fact that Nautilus==Desktop==FileManager, but in a friendly way.
[01:54] <seb128> right, but Scott just mentionned the "simple/double click" is useful too
[01:54] <infinity> Reusing the same dialog, but paging to a different page by default helps that.
[01:54] <infinity> Microsoft tends to do that all over Windows, to clue you in that "Time and Date" and "International Settings" and such are all tied together, etc.
[01:55] <infinity> Just page to the one they asked for, but you start to get the idea that, hey, all these pages might relate.
[01:55] <seb128> anyway I've no strong opinion about it
[01:56] <seb128> we masked it because the preferences menu is already too long
[01:56] <infinity> I have no really strong opinion about the solution, just that the current situation is suboptimal. :)
[01:56] <seb128> and we estimated few people want to go there change something
[01:56] <infinity> And turning off audio preview by default may also be sane.
[01:56] <seb128> and it's available from somewhere else
[01:57] <infinity> Anything that makes a computer act haunted freaks out my mom.
[01:57] <infinity> And me.
[01:57] <infinity> And Keybuk.
[01:58] <seb128> what, audio preview?
[01:58] <seb128> we have that since warty
[01:59] <seb128> I don't think anybody complained before now
[01:59] <infinity> I don't keep audio on my desktop, which is why I've never noticed.
[01:59] <seb128> it's weird you are freaking now :p
[01:59] <infinity> "Close a window, and have your computer sing to you cause your moise pointer is in the wrong place" is freaky.
[01:59] <infinity> mouse, too.
[02:00] <jdub> it's been in nautilus since < 1.0
[02:00] <Keybuk> I don't think it's bad in nautilus windows
[02:00] <Keybuk> it's just downright silly on the desktop
[02:00] <Keybuk> because your mouse will cross or hover over audio as part of its normal business
[02:00] <infinity> But there's no pref to differentiate the two, so... <shrug>
[02:01] <infinity> jdub: Old features can still be wrong.  Y'know, like modal editors. :)
[02:01] <seb128> what an idea to put audio on your desktop :p
[02:01] <Keybuk> non-spatial file manager
[02:01] <Keybuk> seb128: why not?  I stick anything I download or don't really intend to keep forever on my desktop
[02:02] <Kamion> and our browser will download stuff to the desktop by default, so ...
[02:03] <seb128> Keybuk: no reason, was sort of a non-funny joke :p
[02:03] <pepsiman> Kamion: but lugradio is a podcast, use a podcast app to download it
[02:03] <infinity> The French excel at those.
[02:03] <seb128> I've some video on my desktop myself ;)
[02:03] <Keybuk> pepsiman: ITYM "zunecast"
[02:03] <Kamion> pepsiman: that's not really the point anyway
[02:03] <dholbach> New:  Ubuntu 6.10  "without Media Player^W^WAudio Preview" edition
[02:03] <Keybuk> seb128: your response was a bit of an LP-esque "your use case is meaningless to us"
[02:03] <seb128> I think we should just turn off audio preview by default
[02:04] <seb128> it requires mpg123 and ogg123 to work anyway
[02:04] <seb128> which means it doesn't work by default
[02:04] <seb128> it's broken on non-local locations
[02:04] <minghua> maybe that's why nobody complained
[02:04] <minghua> because it never worked :-P
[02:04] <seb128> and it seems to be annoying rather useful for people who get it working ;)
[02:04] <infinity> Yeah, my "mom" wouldn't have CLI audio players installed.
[02:04] <infinity> That does kill the scary for "average users", but also makes the feature nearly useless.
[02:13] <ogra> Kamion, there is a change mentioned in src/gs-listener-dbus.c in the gnome-screensaver changelog ... lets wait for the 2.16.1 tarball and see if it fixes the issue
[02:14] <Kamion> ogra: thanks
[02:16] <infinity> tfheen: Hidden files don't show up on the desktop, therefor can't be hovered over. :P
[02:17] <tfheen> infinity: darn!
[02:17] <tfheen> :-)
[02:17] <tfheen> bad Hobbsee!
[02:17] <slomo> ogra: which issue with g-s and dbus?
[02:18] <ogra> slomo, _dbus_warn ("Applications can not close shared connections.  Please fix this in your app.  Ignoring close request and continuing.");
[02:18] <ogra> thats triggered by gnome-screensaver-command --poke
[02:18] <slomo> ogra: ah... does it break something? it shouldn't anymore with latest dbus but the older versions just closed the shared connection and that could break afaik
[02:19] <ogra> dunno if it breaks something, Kamion just reported there is that message
[02:19] <Kamion> it doesn't break anything AFAIK, but I've had people getting confused by it in ubiquity bug reports
[02:19] <Kamion> (because ubiquity periodically runs the above)
[02:20] <ogra> will also get noisy in .xsession-errors
[02:20] <ogra> slomo, if its a dbus issue, could we make it more silent ? 
[02:21] <ogra> ("Please fix this in your app" does rather sound like its g-s-s' fault)
[02:21] <slomo> ogra: it's an application bug about which dbus now warns and makes it not break anymore... i would prefer to just fix g-s instead of making the warning go away
[02:21] <ogra> right
[02:21] <ogra> so i'm waiting for the new g-s-s tarball ...
[02:22] <_ion> All of https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/preload/+bugs would be fixed by syncing to the Debian version of preload.
[02:23] <_ion> Ubuntu has 0.4-1, Debian has 0.4-3
[02:23] <slomo> ogra: you mean version 1.41 of gs-listener-dbus.c? i don't think this will fix it
[02:24] <pitti> _ion: changelog looks nice, I filed a sync request
[02:24] <elmo> ehm
[02:24] <elmo> does dapper not have the "resize my windows partition to free up some space" option or am I being really stupid?
[02:24] <ogra> slomo, hmm ...
[02:24] <_ion> pitti: Thanks.
[02:25] <elmo> or is it only available on the alternate installer?
[02:25] <pitti> elmo: it should have it, but at least I do not always get that option
[02:25] <slomo> ogra: fix would/could be just removing the dbus_connect_close() at the end of gnome-screensaver-command.c... if necessary the connection to the socket should be closed automatically by the application terminating
[02:25] <_ion> Bug #62827 still applies to dapper, though. The attached patch probably applies cleanly to the dapper version as well.
[02:25] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62827 in preload "parses /proc/N/maps incorrectly, renders whole program nonfunctional" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62827
[02:26] <ogra> slomo, ok, i'll try that ... 
[02:26] <elmo> pitti: meh, ok, I'll try edgy beta
[02:27] <Keybuk> oh, what a shame, preload doesn't work
[02:28] <elmo> Team CD: /dev/cciss/c0d0p2     1.1T 1004G   82G  93% /
[02:28] <elmo> kamion/tfheen: ---^
[02:29] <tfheen> elmo: ack, thanks.
[02:29] <slomo> ogra: otherwise there was a recent commit in dbus cvs to fix some aspects of handling shared connections... not sure what exactly is the effect of that change
[02:29] <tfheen> infinity: oh, so I don't need to nuke that full-tree hardlink tree I have lying about then? :-P
[02:29] <infinity> tfheen: Heh, you do that too, eh? :)
[02:29] <ogra> well, if dropping dbus_connect_close() doesnt break anything its an easy fix
[02:29] <infinity> tfheen: Last time elmo screamed, a hardlink tree was my "pr0n", yes.
[02:29] <tfheen> given that nothing seems to have blown up badly after beta went out, I presume it should be safe to rm the hardlink tree.
[02:29] <infinity> tfheen: Your turn. :)
[02:34] <slomo> ogra: if possible i would like to get dbus 1.0rc2 aka 0.94 or even 1.0 into edgy
[02:35] <ogra> ah, sounds cool ... but i'll also have to get g-s-s 2.16.1 in ;)
[02:35] <ogra> so doing that minor change to the package while building it isnt a biggie
[02:54] <Spads> mdke: ping
[03:01] <Tonio_> mdz: ping ?
[03:07] <HiddenWolf> jsDgx2Daishei3
[03:07] <HiddenWolf> sorry
[03:08] <elmo> Kamion: ping?
[03:08] <ogra> HiddenWolf, i hope that was only your IRC pw :)
[03:09] <HiddenWolf> ogra: *sigh*
[03:09] <elmo> Kamion: this laptop seems to be insistent on using 'New York' for a timezone - I select London, hit Forward, get 'US Keyboard'.  Click back, it's still on London, but the timer's going and when it finishes, it resets to New York
[03:09] <elmo> known bug? (this is with edgy beta)
[03:14] <tfheen> elmo: the US keyboard thing is known, yes.
[03:15] <elmo> tfheen: if I select UK, and go back, it still flicks back to New York
[03:15] <HiddenWolf> ogra: no, that was me thinking I had locked my session, like always, and typing my password blind. 
[03:15] <HiddenWolf> ogra: which is now changed, obviously. :)
[03:15] <elmo> tfheen: should I bother to look any further, or just suck up the US timezone and move on?
[03:16] <tfheen> elmo: it sounds like a bug, I guess Colin would like to see a bug about it.
[03:17] <elmo> tfheen: k, thx
[03:18] <seb128> ogra, slomo:
[03:18] <seb128> " mccann * gnome-screensaver/ (ChangeLog src/gnome-screensaver-command.c): 
[03:18] <seb128>  * src/gnome-screensaver-command.c (main):
[03:18] <seb128>  Don't close a shared bus connection."
[03:19] <ogra> oh !
[03:19] <ogra> seb128, thanks ! :)
[03:19] <Treenaks> oh, so _that_ was complaining in xine-ui!
[03:19] <seb128> np ;)
[03:19] <slomo> seb128: thanks :)
[03:21] <elmo> whine
[03:21] <elmo> edgy beta doesn't have a "resize my windows partition" option either
[03:24] <Riddell> Kamion: bzr branch at http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/bzr/ubiquity/ubuntu/ adds the ensureItemVisible fix
[03:24] <pitti> Keybuk: in case it helps your morale: the same way that you now get all boot problems filed against upstart, I get a lot of program crashes filed against apport :/
[03:24] <ogra> dholbach, how do you set the X cursor theme in ubuntu-artwork, do you ship an /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/icons/default/index.theme ?
[03:25] <Keybuk> pitti: heh
[03:25] <Keybuk> *hugs*
[03:25] <tfheen> pitti: "apport made this program crash"?
[03:25] <pitti> 'don't shoot the messenger'
[03:25] <pitti> tfheen: yeah, it's eeeevil
[03:25] <ogra> oh, thats not its intention ? 
[03:25] <tfheen> ogra: I'm sure I get more crashes now than before. Must blame apport for them
[03:25] <tfheen> ;-)
[03:25] <ogra> right 
[03:26] <Mirv> sorry, urgent need! is there someone else than newz2000 that can admin ubuntu-xx servers?
[03:26] <pitti> but it's simple - sudo killall apport-random-kill-daemon
[03:26] <Mirv> something wrong, I can't upload a PHP file put it got deleted to 0 bytes -> nothing works on the site
[03:27] <seb128> ogra: cat /var/lib/dpkg/info/human-theme.postinst
[03:27] <seb128> ogra: it's an alternative
[03:28] <ogra> ah, cool, thanks ... my bandwith is eaten by other stuff else i'd have pulled -artwork already and looked myself
[03:29] <seb128> ogra: human-theme is the package you want
[03:29] <Mirv> disk quota is exceeded. anyone?
[03:29] <Mirv> or is there any other way to contact anyone at Canonical?
[03:30] <ogra> seb128, ok
[03:30] <seb128> Mirv: what machine is that?
[03:30] <seb128> Mirv: maybe ping elmo
[03:31] <Mirv> 69.60.114.112 , ubuntu-fi.org
[03:32] <Mirv> or actually forum.ubuntu-fi.org's account. 
[03:33] <Mirv> ok it's either newz2000 or smurf, neither of which are around
[03:34] <Mirv> by deleting the file I was able to bring the forum up, albeit with an ugly mix of the default theme and the ubuntu theme
[03:34] <Mirv> (I tried uploading a new version of the SMF theme php file)
[03:40] <Kamion> elmo: yeah, it's a bug, don't think I had a report about it before
[03:40] <Mirv> ok, I grabbed newz2000 <5 seconds after him logging on. problem solved.
[03:40] <Kamion> Riddell: thanks, will merge
[03:40] <Kamion> elmo: if you show me /var/log/partman (or /var/log/installer/partman if you've rebooted), then I can diagnose why it isn't giving you the resize option
[03:41] <bddebian> Howdy folks
[03:42] <Kamion> elmo: timezone> I just tried one approach to fixing it, but unfortunately that broke other things - I'll keep trying
[03:42] <elmo> Kamion: ok, will get you installer when I get networking
[03:43] <elmo> s/installer/logs/
[03:54] <elmo> Kamion: shall I put it in a bug?  (if not: http://people.ubuntu.com/~james/tmp/partman )
[03:57] <Kamion> elmo: in that case, it's only arguably a bug
[03:57] <Kamion> elmo: you have three primary partitions, and no extended partition
[03:58] <elmo> Kamion: so resizing would be excessively non-trivial?
[03:58] <Kamion> elmo: partman always wants to create / as a primary partition (which is a known issue, but I believe it's required on some older BIOSes)
[03:58] <pitti> iwj: \o/ I finally released the firefox/breezy update from hell
[03:58] <elmo> ah I see
[03:58] <Kamion> elmo: then it also needs a partition for swap - which adds up to 4 primary + 1 extended
[03:58] <Kamion> which is over the limit
[03:59] <Kamion> summary: the PC partition table format sucks walruses through a leaky oil pipeline
[04:03] <elmo> Kamion: ho hum - what's the easiest way forward in terms of non-destructively getting Ubuntu onto a machine with this kind of brain damaged partition layout then? 
[04:06] <iwj> pitti: Yay!  Thank god for that.  etc.
[04:07] <iwj> Thanks for your effort and forbearance.
[04:07] <pitti> iwj: thanks for porting and crash fixing :)
[04:08] <Kamion> elmo: partition manually and put everything in logical partitions; your BIOS probably isn't actually stupid enough to care about that, it's just that I know that there are some that do care
[04:09] <Kamion> (e.g. seb128's laptop gets upset about not having an active partition, and I'm willing to bet that that BIOS check doesn't look at logical partitions)
[04:09] <Riddell> mvo: any way of finding out why something is kept back during a dist-upgrade?
[04:10] <dholbach> ogra: ubuntu-artwork is split up
[04:11] <dholbach> ogra: ubuntu-theme ships it and sets it in .postinst (iirc)
[04:11] <ogra> dholbach, yes, i noticed ... 
[04:11] <ogra> i didnt know its an alternative ...
[04:11] <ogra> i like alternatives, very cool :)
[04:12] <dholbach> ogra: that's something Jeff and Nathaniel set up in the early days - I never changed it
[04:13] <ogra> i never had to care for it until now :)
[04:13] <ogra> btw, g-p-m uploaded
[04:14] <smurf> Mirv: you want newz2000 -- I have no access to that box
[04:14] <dholbach> ogra: nice
[04:16] <mvo> Riddell: run it with "-o Debug::pkgProblemResolver=true" 
[04:24] <Keybuk> foo2zjs: /etc/udev/rules.d/11-hplj10xx.rules
[04:24] <Keybuk> where did that come from?!
[04:34] <tepsipakki> pitti: Hi, do you plan to backport the fix for #44196 to dapper?
[04:36] <pitti> tepsipakki: if you think it's appropriate, please add a dapper task
[04:38] <Seveas> Kamion, which sourcepackage should bug 62950 be assigned to?
[04:38] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62950 in Ubuntu "Isolinux error message refers to non-existant CD2, needs changing" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62950
[04:39] <tepsipakki> pitti: from "backport fix to releases"?
[04:41] <seb128> doko, doko_: around?
[04:41] <seb128> doko, doko_:do you have any idea on
[04:41] <seb128> $ python2.5 -c "import gobject"
[04:41] <seb128> Traceback (most recent call last):
[04:41] <seb128>   File "<string>", line 1, in <module>
[04:41] <seb128> ImportError: No module named gobject
[04:41] <seb128> $ dpkg -L python-gobject | grep so
[04:41] <seb128> /usr/lib/python-support/python-gobject/python2.5/gtk-2.0/gobject/_gobject.so
[04:41] <seb128> /usr/lib/python-support/python-gobject/python2.4/gtk-2.0/gobject/_gobject.so
[04:43] <doko_> seb128: interesting
[04:44] <seb128> doko_: that's breaking gnome-python and pygtk builds because they try doing a 2.5 build and chock on it
[04:45] <slomo> seb128: at least for me it has the wrong sys.path with python2.5
[04:45] <seb128> slomo: what do you mean?
[04:46] <slomo> seb128: for 2.4 sys.path contains "/var/lib/python-support/python2.4/gtk-2.0", for 2.5 it doesn't contain the 2.5 variant of this
[04:47] <slomo> seb128: >>> import sys
[04:47] <slomo> >>> sys.path.append("/var/lib/python-support/python2.5/gtk-2.0")
[04:47] <slomo> >>> sys.path.append("/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/gtk-2.0")
[04:47] <slomo> >>> import gobject
[04:48] <seb128> ah, k
[04:48] <doko_> seb128: should be fixed with the sync which slome requested
[04:48] <slomo> seb128: can you please retry with latest python-support from debian? it has a ton of bugfixes
[04:49] <seb128> slomo: I trust doko on it, will wait for the sync
[04:49] <Kamion> Seveas: syslinux
[04:49] <seb128> did you get the UVF approval?
[04:49] <slomo> seb128: bug #63527  (no uvf approval yet)
[04:49] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 63527 in python-support "UVF exception & sync request: python-support 0.5.2 from debian/unstable (main)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63527
[04:49] <Seveas> Kamion, merci
[04:50] <seb128> Kamion: maybe you can approval that sync which unbreaks python modules using python-support now? ;)
[04:50] <Seveas> Kamion, also, I'd appreciate it if you could look at bug 63043 -- I marked 2 similar bugs as duplicates of the old hw-detect bug but that may have been incorrect
[04:50] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 63043 in ubiquity "ubiquity HwDetect failed with code 10" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63043
[04:55] <seb128> doko_, slomo: no, doesn't fix it ... or do I need to rebuild pygobject then?
[04:55] <seb128> it adds /var/lib/python-support/python2.5 to sys.path with it
[04:55] <seb128> but the .so is to /usr/lib/python-support/python-gobject/python2.5
[04:56] <seb128> and the .py to /usr/share/python-support/python-gobject
[04:56] <seb128> hum
[04:56] <doko_> seb128: reinstalling python-gobject?
[04:57] <seb128> doko_: k, fix it
[04:57] <seb128> that's going to be fun
[04:57] <seb128> like we are going to ask users to reinstall their package?
[04:57] <doko_> seb128: no, I'll have to go over the list, after the new one is synced
[04:58] <seb128> ok
[04:58] <seb128> gnome-python split is blocked on that now
[05:01] <Toadstool> tfheen, infinity: thanks for the explanations about xffm-proc build failure :)
[05:02] <tucoz> I have written a bug report that is targeted towards the 2.6.17-10 kernel. However, malone can not find this package, so the package is unknown at the moment although i think i know what package it is.
[05:03] <dholbach> heya keescook
[05:03] <keescook> hi dholbach!
[05:03] <dholbach> how's it going?
[05:04] <elmo> Kamion: cute - when I create a logical partition, the "Resize partition #1" option appears
[05:04] <keescook> goin' good.  having fun with security patches, played a little with apport too
[05:04] <dholbach> keescook: rock on! :-)
[05:06] <tucoz> I wonder if i should leave it as unknown or what package i should select so that the bug report ends up in the right place.
[05:06] <Toadstool> infinity: hmm, by the way, how are we, poor MOTUs, supposed to test a package build when even a pbuilder created with --variant=buildd includes packages not installed on an actual buildd? ;)
[05:08] <pitti> hi keescook 
[05:08] <keescook> hi pitti, just reading through your emails now.  :)
[05:23] <Seveas> !sdfsgda
[05:23] <Seveas> (oops, wrong channel)
[05:23] <doko_> Kamion, infinity: please process in NEW: openoffice.org (and with lower priority all the *-java packages, plus hsqldb and bsh)
[05:36] <jdong> slomo: poke
[05:36] <slomo> jdong: yes?
[05:36] <jdong> bug 62323 , is the library safe to backport, compatibility wise?
[05:36] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62323 in dapper-backports "[dapper]  libsgutils1-dev should depend on libsgutils1" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62323
[05:37] <Riddell> mvo_: fancy helping me debug some upgrade issues?
[05:38] <slomo> jdong: imho yes... and would be nice to backport this, there are a lot people that have problems compiling banshee from source because of this bug
[05:38] <slomo> jdong: but i didn't test building it in dapper. both versions are compatible though
[05:38] <jdong> slomo: yeah, I have a prevu user experiencing problem with banshee backporting
[05:38] <jdong> slomo: I'll test building now
[05:39] <slomo> jdong: you want to backport banshee? good luck... will be hard without backporting complete mono ;) and there is already an inofficial repository containing everything... and it looks fairly sane
[05:40] <jdong> slomo: no, I'm not trying to backport banshee.... users are :)
[05:40] <jdong> slomo: what do you think happens when I give them an auto-backporting tool :D
[05:40] <slomo> jdong: they will update to edgy without even knowing it? ;)
[05:41] <jdong> slomo: the 3rd question I got was if it was possible to backport gnome 2.16 :D
[05:41] <slomo> jdong: "deb http://apebox.org/badgerexplosion ./" <--- give this to users wanting to backport banshee... everything is in there at least for x86
[05:41] <jdong> k, will do
[05:41] <slomo> what was your answer? s/dapper/edgy/ in sources.list and dist-upgrade? :)
[05:42] <jdong> slomo: my answer was that he'd save time by just upgrading to edgy; by the time he gets all the dependencies, he'll basically have a 75% edgy box 
[05:43] <mdz> Tonio_: yes?
[05:44] <slomo> jdong: i remember you working on the azureus package... are you familiar with java packaging in general?
[05:44] <jdong> slomo: not at all. I suck at java packaging ,and packaging in general :)
[05:45] <slomo> ok :(
[05:45] <jdong> eventually I gave up on azureus, too
[05:45] <jdong> didn't know if it was my fault or GCJ's, but fedora's sources simply don't compile on ubuntu's java stack
[05:46] <slomo> did you talk to doko about it?
[05:46] <jdong> slomo: no, I gave the package back to bddebian and ran in the opposite direction
[05:46] <jdong> we need eclipse 3.2 before we can even consider azureus 2.5.0.0 though
[05:46] <jdong> and that's plenty to keep doko occupied :)
[05:47] <jdong> besides, who needs azureus with a properly working ktorrent anyway
[05:47] <bddebian> jdong: Well I certainly don't need it ;-P
[05:56] <jordi> Riddell: ping
[05:57] <Riddell> hi jordi 
[05:59] <gnomefreak> doko_: can you ping me when you get a minute please
[05:59] <doko_> gnomefreak: no. just start typing
[05:59] <gnomefreak> oh ok
[06:00] <gnomefreak> take a look at bug 45705 is it safe to close? 
[06:00] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 45705 in ia32-libs "Error in Dist-upgrade on Dapper" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/45705
[06:00] <gnomefreak> come to think about it dholbach asked about that on another bug this morning
[06:01] <Kamion> Seveas: yes, that was incorrect, it's a different exit code
[06:01] <gnomefreak> i was under the impression that is too dangerous to update on a stable system
[06:02] <doko_> gnomefreak: look, who's the assignee and ask him. maybe it should be closed, because it was only a problem in dapper, and not one with the upgrade from earlier releases
[06:02] <gnomefreak> k
[06:04] <elmo> hmm, a package diff between default dapper install and default edgy install is fascinating
[06:04] <Kamion> slomo,doko_: can you identify the exact fix in the python-support changelog that fixes bug 59775?
[06:04] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 59775 in dbus-python "dbus-python is broken" [Undecided,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/59775
[06:04] <Kamion> elmo: yeah, gparted is like that
[06:05] <slomo> Kamion: i can't... i never had the problem myself but the user said that upgrading fixed it for him
[06:05] <Kamion> that's not very acceptable for a UVF exception
[06:05] <slomo> apart from that upgrading fixed the python-gobject breakage seb128 saw earlier today
[06:05] <Kamion> I need to be sure that that change is required, and that it's not some other mystical voodoo that fixed the problem
[06:06] <seb128> a python-support fix is required for sure
[06:06] <Kamion> WHICH python-support fix?
[06:06] <Kamion> there's a changelog in the UVF exception request bug - if somebody can point me to the lines of the changelog describing the fix, that would help me
[06:06] <seb128> dunno, doko said it's fixed by one of the new versions from Debian, looking at it
[06:06] <Kamion> doko_: help :)
[06:07] <seb128> Kamion: might be http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=383799
[06:07] <Ubugtu> Debian bug 383799 in bittornado "ImportError: No module named BitTornado" [Serious,Closed]  
[06:07] <seb128> "   * update-python-modules: check for .path presence when checking for
[06:07] <seb128>      newly installed python versions, otherwise stuff might not be
[06:07] <seb128>      compiled for it (closes: #383799, medium-urgency fix)."
[06:07] <seb128> from the changelog
[06:09] <Kamion> ok, that looks plausible, thanks
[06:09] <seb128> np
[06:10] <doko_> Kamion: and we need a rebuild (done with the sync as well) to add python2.5 support (didn't look at it)
[06:11] <doko_> Kamion: can I bribe you with CD space, if you process openoffice.org in NEW? ;)
[06:11] <Kamion> doko_: there are several dependency generation fixes in that python-support changelog; after the new python-support is available, could you please scan through the archive for breakage due to that and upload anything that needs to be fixed?
[06:11] <Kamion> doko_: give me a minute dude, I was away for the last hour doing urgent bank stuff
[06:12] <Kamion> I've only been back for <10 minutes
[06:12] <doko_> Kamion: yes, already said to seb128, that I will do it
[06:12] <doko_> Kamion (didn't realize that you were away)
[06:13] <doko_> Riddell: ping
[06:14] <Riddell> hi doko_ 
[06:16] <Kamion> doko_: OOo accepted
[06:17] <doko_> Kamion: thanks :)
[06:17] <ogra> Kamion, remind me, why did we default to a fixed hostname in edubuntu ?
[06:17] <doko_> Kamion: you just got 17MB on the CD
[06:18] <ogra> doko_, ??
[06:18] <ogra> doko_, you are joking, right ? you dont introduce 17MB extra on the CDs after beta
[06:19] <slomo> i guess he means -17MB 
[06:19] <ogra> i hope so :)
[06:19] <_ion> Does anybody really use the Windows software on the Live-CDs? :-)
[06:19] <ogra> windows users ?
[06:20] <Kamion> ogra: I honestly can't say I remember any more
[06:20] <_ion> Nah, they either download newer versions of the software, or burn whatsitsname... OpenCD?
[06:20] <Kamion> _ion: yes - it's a fantastic easy first step for new users
[06:20] <Kamion> _ion: Eben Moglen will enthuse about this approach if you let him - he had great success converting several people to free software using it
[06:21] <_ion> Perhaps someone could do some evil hack to make e.g. Linux and Windows versions of Firefox and OOo on the Live-CD use the same data files. ;-)
[06:21] <Kamion> you get them using the Windows software first, then you say "hey, if you liked that, just boot from the CD and try out the rest"
[06:22] <ogra> Kamion, it somehow appears silly to me ... we should probably change it ... veven though i'm sure it was my decision ...
[06:22] <Kamion> ogra: it'd be worth searching through IRC logs to find out the reason first
[06:22] <Kamion> ogra: FWIW I made the change on 2005-07-29
[06:23] <Kamion> doko_: thanks!
[06:23] <Kamion> doko_: the -gcj variants seem larger than the non-gcj variants, as a general rule ... do the -gcj variants end up on the CD?
[06:23] <doko_> Kamion: no
[06:23] <Kamion> ok
[06:24] <doko_> Kamion: if they are found, they are used (native code), if not, the code is interpreted
[06:26] <Kamion> doko_: ok, processed all the GCJ stuff
[06:27] <doko_> great!
[06:31] <jdong> doko_: is eclipse 3.2 planned for edgy or edgy+1?
[06:31] <doko_> jdong: there's nothing planned; doing eclipse in my free time.
[06:32] <jdong> doko_: ok, just curious
[07:03] <sivang> re all
[07:07] <Riddell> tfheen: the accessiblity changes in kubuntu beta don't seem to work, is there a way to debug that at all?
[07:25] <Tonio_> mdz: just wanted to know if the informations on bug bugs 62544 are enough or if you need more ?
[07:25] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62544 in kaffeine "0.8.1 -> 0.8.2 UVF Exception Request" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62544
[07:28] <mdz> Tonio_: I received your email and will review it with the other freeze exceptions in my queue
[07:28] <Tonio_> mdz: thanks
[07:29] <LaserJock> mdz: is it possible to remove the latest version of a package from edgy Universe, or do you have to upload a new package over it?
[07:30] <heno> Riddell: Kamion said there was a small bug in the a11y scripts. I guess the fix is on its way
[07:31] <Riddell> heno: so it doesn't work for ubuntu either?
[07:31] <heno> Riddell: correct
[07:32] <Riddell> heno: ok, makes it nicer for me :)
[07:33] <pitti> BenC: new kernel&apport combo works nicely now :)
[07:34] <mjg59> Who's supposed to be looking after gnome-power-manager at the moment?
[07:34] <bluefoxicy> png_pov.cpp:(.text+0x358f): undefined reference to `png_write_finish_row'
[07:35] <bluefoxicy> hrm.... why is that symbol not in libpng12?  ... ah well.
[07:36] <kristog> mjg59: ?
[07:36] <mjg59> kristog: Who's supposed to be dealing with gnome-power-manager bugs at the moment?
[07:37] <kristog> whoa 130 bugs, debian only 14.
[07:37] <mjg59> Right
[07:38] <Kamion> heno: I uploaded the fix this morning
[07:39] <heno> Kamion: cool, I'll give it a test 
[07:47] <_ion> mjg59: Hi
[07:49] <dholbach> hey _ion!!!
[07:49] <_ion> Hi dholbach 
[07:49] <dholbach> _ion: how are you! good to see you again!
[07:50] <_ion> dholbach: Good to see you. :-) I've managed to debug a problem with loudmouth a bit. Seems like it doesn't support STARTTLS at all. My jabber server requires using it, and loudmouth crashes when connecting. I haven't yet been able to fix the crash.
[07:51] <_ion> dholbach: I.e. both telepathy-gabble and gossip crash.
[07:51] <dholbach> _ion: urg
[07:51] <dholbach> _ion: would you please file a bug with debug backtrace in LP for that?
[07:51] <jdong|laptop> there's probably not a chance that we can get squash 3.1 in edgy, right?
[07:52] <dholbach> _ion: I'm happy to forward it to the (somewhat obscure) upstream bug tracker
[07:54] <_ion> dholbach: Yeah, i'm going to file the bug. I've thought i'd submit a patch that fixes the problem at the same time, but i haven't been able to fix it yet. I'll probably file the bug today anyway.
[07:54] <dholbach> _ion: thanks a lot for that
[07:54] <_ion> dholbach: There's some strange stuff going on with function callbacks. :-)
[07:55] <ogra> jdong|laptop, i wouldnt oppose a gcompris backport ... if it builds and doesnt crash 
[07:56] <seb128> mjg59: no real maintainer, ogra is doing updates usually, I don't think he looks at bugs for it though
[07:57] <seb128> jdong: you are doing backports? Any reason there is rhythmbox 0.9.5 bakports for dapper done?
[07:57] <ogra> well, roughly ... as time permits ... i'd appreciate to give away maintenance to someone who can put in more time 
[07:57] <ogra> mjg59, ^^
[07:58] <_ion> mjg59: Have you noticed this patch? https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/usplash/+bug/62865/comments/1
[07:58] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62865 in usplash "1024x768 with nVidia GeForce4 Ti 4800 SE: "screen init failed"" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
[07:58] <kristog> seb128: ogra mjg59 i will take a look on gpm bugs.
[07:58] <ogra> kristog, very much appreciated ... if we ever meet remind me to pay you a barrel of beer ;)
[07:59] <kristog> ogra: ahahah thank you :)
[08:01] <seb128> kristog: thank you, you rock!
[08:01] <jdong> ogra / seb128: ok, I'll look at those two backports soon
[08:01] <seb128> jdong: thank you
[08:01] <seb128> np, we know "too much too do" feeling too ;)
[08:03] <ogra> right, totally ... :)
[08:03] <seb128> s/too do/to do
[08:03] <seb128> any, dinner time
[08:03] <jdong>  -> Considering  libnautilus-burn-dev (>= 2.15.3)
[08:03] <seb128> bbl
[08:03] <pitti> seb128: enjoy
[08:03] <seb128> jdong: hum, k, better to close the backport task opened for some time then
[08:04] <jdong> k
[08:04] <seb128> bah, new n-c-b is not required
[08:04] <seb128> the Build-Depends has been bumped to catch a soname change I think
[08:04] <seb128> I'll have a look after dinner
[08:06] <jdong> I'll leave the ticket open then
[08:18] <pitti> slomo: liferea approved
[08:18] <slomo> pitti: woohoo :)
[08:20] <pitti> imbrandon, Riddell, seb128, Tonio_: FYI, I'm processing MIR now and approved some (not yet finished)
[08:20] <pitti> please tell me if you need something urgently, I won't process the whole queue
[08:20] <BenC> pitti: good news (re apport+kernel)
[08:21] <pitti> BenC: interesting that unlink() was the culprit...
[08:22] <slomo> pitti: now what's the process to get it into main but not installed by default? asking an archive admin or is there something else now?
[08:22] <pitti> slomo: it needs to be seeded to 'supported'
[08:22] <pitti> slomo: once that happened, anastacia will demand promotion, and the archive guys will do it
[08:23] <BenC> pitti: vfs_unlink() in the kernel was just not being nice
[08:23] <slomo> pitti: ok, thanks :) is there a FF exception or something needed at this point?
[08:23] <BenC> pitti: so I tried to use sys_unlink() (which is the userspace syscall function for unlink()), but it didn't want to actually unlink the files
[08:23] <pitti> slomo: not FF, but I'm not sure whether mdz is happy with new main packages at this point; better ask him
[08:24] <pitti> BenC: I think I got it pretty solid now in apport, but of course I can't guarantee that cores are deleted in all circumstances
[08:24] <slomo> mdz: are you fine with adding liferea to the supported seed for edgy? or better wait for next release?
[08:24] <pitti> BenC: like, if apport itself segfaults (happened recently with python-apt, for example)
[08:25] <BenC> pitti: in those cases, it may be nice to keep the core around any way to help reproduce the apport bug
[08:33] <seb128> pitti: meanwhile would be nice
[08:33] <pitti> seb128: already done
[08:33] <seb128> cool
[08:48] <siretart> pitti: do you know why cryptsetup isn't in main?
[08:48] <siretart> I wonder why I don't find any report or request about it
[08:48] <pitti> siretart: mainly because noone bothered hard enough to ask for it
[08:48] <siretart> ah
[08:48] <slomo> siretart: i want it in main ;) but it currently breaks very bad with upstart (at least for me)
[08:49] <Tonio_> pitti: hehe, thanks, good to ear this :)
[08:49] <siretart> slomo: I see it the other way round: upstart breaks cryptsetup very hard. it doesn't give the cryptsetup init script a controlling tty
[08:49] <Tonio_> pitti: urgency for kubuntu is digikam, but it requires 2 libs to be approved aswell...
[08:49] <pitti> Tonio_: all done
[08:49] <slomo> siretart: or that... but keybuk said it's cryptsetup bug and i didn't look too hard yet because of no time ;)
[08:49] <Tonio_> pitti: fabulous !
[08:50] <siretart> slomo: well. he is obviously a bit biased, no? ;)
[08:50] <slomo> siretart: if you want to fix the part that does it wrong you'll get a beer from me when we meet some day ;)
[08:50] <siretart> slomo: its quite hard to input a passphrase without an tty, no?
[08:50] <slomo> well, i trusted him :P
[08:50] <pitti> slomo, siretart: oh, you didn't meet so far?
[08:51] <siretart> no only irc so far
[08:51] <slomo> siretart: it gets an tty according to Keybuk
[08:51] <siretart> oh
[08:51] <mjg59> _ion: Yeah, I've been ill
[08:51] <mjg59> I'll get to it
[08:51] <siretart> hm. I'm just on my 2nd try to upgrade my workstation to edgy. lets see if it succeeds today
[08:52] <slomo> siretart: or at least should.... it should be called with < /dev/console > /dev/console but iirc the init script does this already
[08:52] <mjg59> seb128: That's rather less than ideal
[08:53] <seb128> mjg59: right, the issue is that everybody from the team is already overloaded so nobody is wanting to step for it
[08:53] <_ion> mjg59: Sad to hear it. :-( I hope you get well soon.
[08:54] <mjg59> seb128: At the moment there are several regressions over dapper
[08:54] <_ion> The fsck script contains something like 'exec </dev/console >/dev/console 2>&1' IIRC
[08:54] <mjg59> I don't have time to do anything about it right now
[08:54] <_ion> Oh, i missed slomo's last line.
[08:54] <slomo> _ion: cryptsetup's init script has this too
[08:55] <seb128> mjg59: if you find regressions mark them as high importance, we will try to have a look to them before edgy
[08:56] <siretart> if I understood Keybook correctly, cryptsetup requires a controlling tty. I don't think these redirections do support them
[08:57] <siretart> I was told today by a collegue that cryptsetup was broken with sysvinit too: he got asked his passphrase, but every letter he typed was echoed on the console
[08:57] <siretart> didn't get to check that yet
[08:58] <slomo> if we want it in main this definitely has to be fixed first though ;)
[09:03] <slomo> siretart: i had the echo-passphrase-to-console bug in the past too... but this happened only short before upstart broke it completely ;)
[09:04] <Ng> mjg59: about?
[09:05] <Ng> mjg59: a while back I mentioned having to enable the softled option for the atheros in my X40 and you suggested filing it as a bug, but I forgot which package you suggested filing it against
[09:11] <elmo> deskbar applet == teh buggy
[09:11] <mjg59> Ng: linux-restricted-modules
[09:11] <Ng> k
[09:11] <Kamion> linux-restricted-modules-2.6.15 or linux-restricted-modules-2.6.17, in fact
[09:11] <Kamion> I doubt Malone knows about linux-restricted-modules as such ...
[09:13] <froud> how is a modules update performed if modules-update is meant to be obsolete ... although it is still installed and works in dapper
[09:13] <froud> is there an alternative?
[09:16] <Ng> Kamion: technically the bug applies to both, since I had to do this in dapper too, but presumably it's not likely to be fixed there? ;)
[09:24] <Kamion> Ng: doesn't sound serious enough, at a first hearing
[09:25] <Ng> Kamion: I have absolutely nothing by way of a case for it for dapper, it's just an LED blinkying or not :)
[09:28] <jdong> !seen keybuk
[09:29] <jdong> *grumble*
[09:30] <siretart> ah, hi jdong 
[09:30] <Kamion> Ng: thought not :)
[09:30] <siretart> jdong: I've seen that you tried backporting libxine, did you also compile the extracodecs package?
[09:31] <jdong> siretart: yes, both do backport cleanly
[09:31] <jdong> siretart: I was talking to slomo about it yesterday, and he wants it to build against internal ffmpeg though
[09:31] <siretart> oh
[09:31] <jdong> he said that dapper's ffmpeg is too old, and he'd rather use the internal ffmpeg
[09:31] <siretart> well, this is indeed a valid point
[09:31] <slomo> siretart: because the ffmpeg in dapper is fairly old and i expect regressions
[09:31] <siretart> right
[09:32] <siretart> jdong: do backports build in dapper or in dapper-backports chroots?
[09:32] <jdong> siretart: dapper-backports
[09:32] <jdong> backports do build against themselves correctly
[09:32] <siretart> slomo: in this case, how about backporting ffmeg as well?
[09:33] <slomo> siretart: shouldn't break anything directly... but maybe stuff can't be rebuild anymore against newer ffmpeg
[09:33] <slomo> has to be tested
[09:33] <siretart> slomo: stuff in dapper or in dapper-backports?
[09:34] <slomo> both
[09:35] <siretart> slomo: stuff in dapper doesn't matter, imo. stuff in dapper-backports is indeed a valid point. but I don't think we have anything else backported which b-d on ffmpeg. I may be wrong, of course
[09:35] <jdong> slomo: so libavcodec isn't necessarily compatible with dapper's version?
[09:35] <slomo> jdong: yes but that doesn't matter much, we linked statically in dapper
[09:35] <jdong> slomo: oh, ok
[09:35] <slomo> can only happen that stuff from dapper is not buildable anymore with the backported ffmpeg
[09:36] <jdong> that seems like it's not the end of the world :)
[09:36] <siretart> jdong: remember, ffmpeg is always a royal pain in the ass :/
[09:37] <jdong> siretart: yeah, I'm noticing that
[09:37] <jdong> I'm sending an ffmpeg through pbuilder right now
[09:37] <jdong> it looks like it'll do fine
[09:37] <keescook> joy, I've been working on ffmpeg/xine-lib security patches too.
[09:37] <jdong> testing it is another story though :D
[09:37] <siretart> great. 2nd. upgrade to edgy, now to screen remains black after booting the new kernel
[09:37] <siretart> any ideas or pointer how to debug?
[09:37] <jdong> siretart: take off quiet?
[09:38] <jdong> keescook: oh boy... fun... that shouldn't be affected by dapper-backports work though
[09:38] <jdong> keescook: dapper-backports (i'd expect) has a much narrower audience than dapper-update/dapper-security
[09:39] <keescook> jdong: yup, I agree.
[09:39] <keescook> just figured I'd raise my hand and share the ffmpeg pain with you
[09:39] <jdong> i386/dsputil_mmx.c:630: error: can't find a register in class 'GENERAL_REGS' while reloading 'asm'
[09:39] <jdong> it doesn't look like ffmpeg will build with dapper's gcc?
[09:40] <slomo> jdong: -fomit-frame-pointer fixes this on x86 ;)
[09:40] <slomo> or newer gcc
[09:41] <jdong> slomo: oh. but I can't frickin fomit-frame-pointer backports packages :D
[09:44] <siretart> jdong: interesting. without splash and quiet, now I noticed that linux-restricted-modules. in fact, there are many package upgrades missing.. hmmm. anyway, good tip
[09:45] <jdong> siretart: hmm, did you pull in ubuntu-desktop?
[09:46] <siretart> jdong: I trusted update-manager to do its job. previously, ubuntu-desktop was installed
[09:46] <jdong> ah, ok
[09:46] <jdong> siretart: I just got word back from jenda that update-manager worked like a charm for him
[09:47] <siretart> jdong: I made good experiences with update-manager until this upgrade
[09:47] <jdong> hmm, maybe update-manager bug then...
[09:48] <siretart> already filed as bug #63617
[09:48] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 63617 in upgrade-system "crash while removing packages" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63617
[10:02] <smurf> Kamion: ping
[10:03] <siretart> which package is responsible for breaking my /etc/fstab by trying to mount my filesystems via UUID?
[10:03] <Kamion> smurf: hi
[10:03] <smurf> siretart: why is that broken?
[10:04] <Kamion> volumeid
[10:04] <Kamion> (source package udev)
[10:04] <siretart> smurf: mount -a; \n result: mount: special device /dev/disk/by-uuid/9c9cfasdfa-waef-d234-235 does not exist
[10:04] <Kamion> that's the default in edgy though, and it works for most people, so your claim is a bit too broad ...
[10:04] <siretart> hrmpf
[10:04] <Kamion> "w" doesn't sound like a character that should be in a UUID
[10:04] <siretart> I cheated
[10:05] <Kamion> in fact that UUID is entirely broken
[10:05] <smurf> Kamion: I'm just installing the beta from the alternate CD and note that the "no support for your language on the CD. do you want to download?" question shows up very late.
[10:05] <slomo> siretart: is this your encrypted partition?
[10:06] <smurf> Kamion: if I were a sysadmin, I'd have wandered off by now, and would be rather annoyed upon coming back that the installation hasn't progressed much ... might it be possible to ask that somewhat earlier?
[10:06] <Kamion> smurf: no later than in dapper ...
[10:06] <smurf> Kamion: I didn't try that in dapper ;-)
[10:06] <siretart> I don't have X on that machine yet
[10:06] <siretart> slomo: no, I have only cryptoswap on that machine
[10:07] <slomo> siretart: ok, no idea then
[10:07] <siretart> Kamion: well, the special thing I use here is lvm on software raid
[10:07] <Kamion> smurf: tricky - the obvious place would be a base-installer hook, but I don't think those get to talk to debconf
[10:07] <Kamion> siretart: IIRC that's fixed in current udev, so a dapper->edgy upgrade won't suffer this problem
[10:07] <Kamion> udev (093-0ubuntu16) edgy; urgency=low
[10:07] <Kamion>   * Don't convert software RAID (/dev/md[0-9] *) devices to UUID as there's
[10:07] <Kamion>     something nasty in that woodshed.  Ubuntu: #62476.
[10:07] <Kamion>  -- Scott James Remnant <scott@ubuntu.com>  Tue, 26 Sep 2006 17:17:05 +0100
[10:07] <siretart> interestingly, it works for /, but not for other filesystems on that vg
[10:08] <JB[away] > hey guys, when does you want to fix the mod_proxy bug -> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/apache2/+bug/62820 ???
[10:08] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62820 in apache2 "RPC over HTTP" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
[10:08] <siretart> Kamion: I upgraded from dapper 15min ago. so I can confirm that bug is not fixed
[10:08] <smurf> Kamion: OK -- I translate your answer to "we should think about that after Edgy".
[10:08] <Kamion> siretart: ok, file a bug on udev then, attaching /etc/fstab.pre-uuid
[10:09] <cbx33> is there news on MV
[10:10] <smurf> Kamion: ... alternately, is there a reason why somebody might answer "no" to that question? Otherwise we could just prioritize it away
[10:10] <Kamion> smurf: yeah, I can't think of an easy way to do it unfortunately without shunting questions around to packages where they don't belong
[10:10] <zul> cbx33: heh good im not the only wondering
[10:10] <Kamion> smurf: absolutely - downloading language-support-* takes a lot of bandwidth
[10:11] <Kamion> smurf: I added that question because I was fed up of having to wait for language-support-ja or whatever to download during tests
[10:11] <cbx33> zul, heheh
[10:11] <Kamion> and it seemed likely that people doing a custom install might not necessarily care about input methods
[10:12] <smurf> Kamion: fair enough
[10:12] <JB[away] > hihoooo :)
[10:12] <siretart> Kamion: filed as bug #63626
[10:12] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 63626 in udev "udev did convert my lvm on raid filesystems in /etc/fstab" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63626
[10:14] <Kamion> followed up
[10:14] <Kamion> JB[away] : if nobody's answering, it's because nobody here knows about / is interested in your bug
[10:15] <Kamion> JB[away] : perhaps a mailing list post would be more fruitful
[10:15] <JB[away] > :(
[10:15] <JB[away] > but it is important
[10:15] <Kamion> Many bugs are important, but we have limited resources.
[10:16] <Kamion> That sounds like the sort of bug we generally rely on upstream to fix.
[10:16] <JB[away] > sure, but i thought that ubuntu dapper is very stable
[10:16] <Kamion> Yes, it doesn't change much :-)
[10:16] <JB[away] > but have a important bug :(
[10:16] <Kamion> If there is a *known* patch for this issue, then it can be backported
[10:16] <Kamion> but the patch needs to be identified
[10:17] <JB[away] > apache havent relaesed e patch
[10:17] <JB[away] > :(
[10:17] <JB[away] > they fixed the bug on the version 2.0.56 without a patch
[10:17] <pitti> JB[away] : then it's a matter of finding the patch in their cvs
[10:18] <Kamion> Apache use revision control; there's no need for them to release individual patches when anyone can extract them from the revision control system
[10:18] <Kamion> night all
[10:18] <kristog> night
[10:18] <zul> later Kamion 
[10:18] <pitti> bye Kamion 
[10:18] <JB[away] > pitti i have speak with the apache developer
[10:19] <JB[away] > and a patch would't released
[10:19] <pitti> JB[away] : well, if they fixed the bug upstream, they must have a patch :)
[10:19] <pitti> JB[away] : it's just not separately distributed/announced
[10:20] <JB[away] > sure why not?
[10:20] <JB[away] > apache fixed it on 2.0.56
[10:20] <JB[away] > but my distri (ubuntu) have only 2.0.55
[10:21] <zul> then its just a matter of finding the fix
[10:21] <JB[away] > i cant find :(
[10:22] <pitti> also, for edgy, requesting an UVF exception for apache2 sounds generally reasonable
[10:22] <pitti> their stable branches have a good reputation
[10:28] <JB[away] > http://issues.apache.org/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=16744
[10:28] <JB[away] > is this the patch?
[10:30] <pitti> looks very much like it
[10:30] <JB[away] > and now?
[10:30] <pitti> please add a comment to the ubuntu bug with the link to the bug
[10:30] <pitti> s/bug/patch/
[10:33] <JB[away] > https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/apache2/+bug/62820
[10:33] <JB[away] > :)
[10:33] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62820 in apache2 "RPC over HTTP" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
[10:36] <tfheen> Riddell: break=casper-bottom and step through 30accessibility by hand?
[10:37] <JB[away] > duoble post @ pitti ? :)
[10:37] <pitti> JB[away] : no, a link to the upstream patch is prefered to an attachment
[10:38] <JB[away] > oo sorry, 
[10:39] <pitti> JB[away] : alright, I marked the bug appropriately, will get fixed for edgy
[10:39] <JB[away] > for edgy?
[10:39] <JB[away] > i need them for dapper :(
[10:39] <pitti> that's considerably more effort: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
[10:39] <pitti> and I don't have the time to pursue that
[10:40] <pitti> and it's not the kind of bug we fix in stable releases
[10:40] <JB[away] > i cant use so ubuntu on my server
[10:40] <gnomefreak> infinity: if you are here, i would like to know if ia32-lib was fixed with breezy > dapper upgrade
[10:41] <JB[away] > ok i degraded to debian sarge, the apache works fine
[10:51] <froud> I read somewhere that Ubuntu Kernels provide modules to support IPSec out the box. Is this so?
[10:52] <joejaxx> JB[away] : do you know how is responsible for the generation of the ubuntu cd images?
[10:52] <joejaxx> or froud*
[10:53] <JB[away] > no
[10:53] <mc44> joejaxx, you probably want tfheen
[10:54] <mc44> joejaxx, if you mean the live cds
[10:54] <joejaxx> mc44: thank you 
[10:54] <tfheen> joejaxx: hmm?
[10:54] <joejaxx> tfheen: may i pm you?
[10:54] <tfheen> joejaxx: sure.
[10:56] <_ion> froud: The problem with IPsec is different implementations being bug-incompatible with each other. I'd recommend openvpn. (Offtopic, sorry.)
[10:58] <froud> _ion: openvpn and openswan in universe. Regardless of which solution, shouldn't Ubuntu kernels ship with support for IPSec, I mean it is IETF and practically the defacto std.
[11:03] <sivang> pitti: you have an idea how to workaround the fact that under a chroot, programs cannot access mount points etc? have youever run into this?
[11:03] <sivang> pitti: (I need to be able to install DB2 under a chroot, but installer failes when attempting to access physical mount points)
[11:09] <pitti> sivang: bind mounts usually help
[11:09] <sivang> pitti: but /home is already bind mounted
[11:09] <sivang> pitti: do you like bind mount /dev/sda1 to somewhere ?
[11:10] <pitti> sivang: do you want to access physical device nodes or mount points? /dev/sda1 is not a mount point :)
[11:11] <sivang> pitti: i would say mount points
[11:11] <sivang> :-)
[11:18] <seb128> ogra: new gnome-screensaver 2.16.1 available
[11:19] <sivang> pitti: I should probably mount bind /
[11:19] <pitti> sivang: you most probably do not want that...
[11:19] <sivang> pitti: but then I wouldn't it be actually putting stuff into / of my non chroot environment, making the chroot useless?
[11:20] <sivang> pitti: right then