Tonio_Riddell: it looks like I can't connect sftp://bazaar.launchpad.net12:19
Tonio_Permission denied (publickey).12:19
Tonio_Riddell: I used id "tonio" as it is supposed to be this one, am I missing something ?12:20
RiddellTonio_: have you uploaded your public ssh key to launchpad?12:26
=== Riddell beds
Tonio_Riddell: bah, I think so yes....12:26
Tonio_Riddell: I couldn't dput to ubuntu without this......12:26
Tonio_Riddell: We'll see this tomorrow :)12:27
RiddellTonio_: that's gpg12:27
Riddellthey're different12:27
Tonio_Riddell: ah... here is the problem then... will do that and finish to read the wiki12:27
Tonio_Riddell: good ight12:28
ryanakca_Tonio_: yes, it depends on unrar-nonfree12:28
Tonio_ryanakca_: I changed this to unrar-free and suggested only unrar-nonfree12:29
Tonio_ryanakca_: we don't that to go in multiverse right ?12:29
ryanakca_ok, well, as long as it has some form of 'unrar'...12:29
gnomefreakis anyone running edgy with nvidia-glx (one in repos) working in the -10-generic kernel?12:31
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ryanakca_mhb: hey, what's the feedback about that kubuntu testers group?01:10
Hawkwindryanakca_: It's already been formed and has an LP page01:11
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LathiatRiddell: pong02:04
jjessehmm anyone alive here?02:15
bddebian"I'm getting better.."02:17
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DaSkreechHey Hobbsee05:13
Hobbseehey DaSkreech 05:13
DaSkreechWhat's up?05:13
DaSkreechHung up the Stick yet?05:13
Hobbseei've discovered that my uni exam timetable is pretty horrible05:14
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DaSkreech<imbrandon> ...06:30
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nixternal*** qt_plugins_3.3rc (Y/I/N/O/D/Z) [default=N]  ?    06:30
nixternalgo with the default i take it? 06:30
nixternalthats the first i can remember seeing that during and upgrade06:30
DaSkreechYes Ignore No Oops Default ZapSystem?06:33
nixternalwho knows, i went with the default though06:33
nixternalthis is twice in a week we had tornadoes and junk again06:34
nixternalit is almost fall here and we are getting the worst storms of the year06:34
Tm_Tnixternal: I'm waiting snow06:34
nixternalooh i can't wait for snow06:35
nixternali need to get the snowboard out of the shed and get ready for the powder06:35
Tm_TI hope we get more snow than just ~50 cm this year06:35
imbrandonhum 06:36
imbrandonheya nixternal 06:36
nixternalwasabi homey06:36
nixternalpower comes back on and i faced with updates ;)06:36
nixternalman, hear comes some more thunder06:37
imbrandonhoked up my mouse and junk to the lappy to make my "stay" a little better ;)06:37
imbrandondid some mythtv junk06:37
imbrandonhrm whatelse06:37
imbrandonoh a acidrip fix for jdong06:37
imbrandonin other words bored06:37
zphouhi all06:38
imbrandonheya zphou 06:38
imbrandonzphou, why the new nick ?06:38
zphouimbrandon: this morning  :)06:38
zphouimbrandon: too many nick like mine, so I changed  :)06:39
imbrandonahh yea06:39
zphouimbrandon: have u tried beryl on your ppc?06:40
imbrandonzphou, not yet, i was thinking about it06:40
imbrandonbut i dont have aiglx setup atm06:41
zphouimbrandon: I've built them, do you need them 06:41
imbrandondebs ?06:41
zphouI can not use tookhem on my poor ib06:41
zphouimbrandon: ya06:41
nixternalheh, didn't know that was freeflying in disguise06:41
imbrandonnixternal, i reconised it becouse oh his real name is close to the nice06:42
imbrandonzphou, sure06:42
nixternalbrb, reboot..but you won't notice since i rock bip! ;)06:42
zphounixternal: :)06:42
zphouimbrandon: upload to your server?06:43
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imbrandonzphou, yea thats fine06:44
zphouimbrandon: but the passwd and accound are on the desktop in my office, and now I'm on my vacation  :)06:46
imbrandonzphou, i dont know your password heh, but anywhere is fine06:48
imbrandonhow big are they ?06:48
zphouimbrandon: not too big  :)06:49
imbrandonheh you can email them then06:49
zphouimbrandon: i upload to http://www.ubuntu-zh.org/~freeflying/beryl-deb/06:52
zphouimbrandon: just a moment06:52
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zphouimbrandon: done06:55
imbrandonnice , ok i'll grab it here in a bit06:59
imbrandontonio ping07:03
imbrandonerr no tonio07:03
nixternaldon't mess with the wiki at all, it is garbage and will cause you to loose all of your work07:07
nixternallike the UWN issue 16 went from almost done to gone07:07
nixternalhiya Hobbsee!07:08
zphouHobbsee: hey07:08
DaSkreechHey Hobbsee :)07:10
DaSkreechYour Uni is forcing you to get up in the morning?07:11
Hobbseeif i want to be at class, yes.07:11
nixternali hate hplip07:11
DaSkreechPfft class is overrated07:11
Hobbseeyeah, well...07:11
zphouHobbsee: universe freeze now?07:23
Hobbseezphou: yep07:24
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DaSkreechGood night all07:38
Hobbseenight DaSkreech 07:40
Hobbseehey raphink 07:40
raphinkhi Hobbsee07:40
zphouraphink: hi 08:18
zphouimbrandon: how about beryl on your ppc? :)08:18
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raphinkhi zphou08:33
nixternalbug 6133108:49
Ubug2Malone bug 61331 in xorg "[edgy]  extremely bold ttf fonts in kubuntu (edgy)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/6133108:49
Hobbseenixternal: by installing msttcorefonts, i expect09:02
nixternalTahoma isn't in there09:04
nixternali made that a "needs more info bud" ;p)09:05
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Hobbseehey Tonio__ :)09:54
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Tonio_Riddell: ping ?10:52
imbrandonTonio_, ping10:56
Tonio_imbrandon: hi ! 10:56
imbrandonTonio_, sorry i dident get your query last night in time, but no i havent heard from canonical yet10:56
imbrandoni was kinda wondering what was up myself10:56
imbrandonhave you ? i guess not or you wouldent be asking me hehe10:57
Tonio_imbrandon: oups, okay I have your response :)11:03
imbrandonTonio_, maybe today ? dunno11:04
Tonio_imbrandon: I don't know11:04
imbrandonTonio_, i dont even know whom to ask about it11:04
imbrandoni would imagine they just got busy though11:05
Tonio_imbrandon: pv11:05
seaLnehas anyone seen this:11:06
seaLneapt-get: error while loading shared libraries: /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6: invalid ELF header11:06
imbrandonwow , nope11:07
imbrandonseaLne, ^11:07
seaLnethis is on a machine that hadn't been updated for about a week, dist-upgrade failed and now that11:08
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RiddellTonio_: hi11:52
Tonio_Riddell: hey :)11:55
Tonio_Riddell: yesterday you told me to :11:55
Tonio_1/ update the seeds -> done11:55
Tonio_2/ update kubuntu-meta -> doesn't work11:55
Tonio_3/ contact elite person to promote the packages to main11:56
Tonio_Riddell: shouldn't I invert 2/ and 3/ ? ;)11:56
Tonio_Riddell: looks like I need the packages in main to update the metapackage11:56
RiddellTonio_: mm, yes11:57
Tonio_Riddell: okay I'm preparing the mail for the elite guys11:57
Riddelljust ping on irc is the usual way11:58
Tonio_Riddell: ah okay, will do then12:02
imbrandonmoins Riddell 12:09
Tonio_Riddell: keybuk will do that today, and then I'll update kubuntu-meta12:12
Tonio_it makes sense how the seeds are managed now... I spent half of the night looking at this12:13
Tonio_Riddell: ho and you were right concerning my ssh keys :)12:13
RiddellTonio_: putting sftp://bazaar.launchpad.net/ into konqueror is interesting12:14
Tonio_Riddell: yes, I've done that and checked the structure...12:15
Tonio_Riddell: I don't understand everything of course, but it globally makes sense12:15
Tonio_Riddell: I'll improve mimetypes integration concerning video formats today12:22
Tonio_kaffeine misses a few of them12:23
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Tonio_the point is do I patch kaffeine.desktop, or should I do that in kds..... I'm unsure at the moment12:23
RiddellTonio_: if the new mimetypes are useful to anything but kaffeine they should go into kdelibs12:24
RiddellTonio_: talk to danimo, he said something about new mimetypes recently12:24
Tonio_Riddell: no it is only kaffeine12:24
Tonio_there are a few video formats that kaffeine recognizes but that aren't associated to kaffeine currently12:24
Tonio_I'll probably patch kaffeine.Desktop12:25
Riddellthen kaffeine is the package to patch12:25
Tonio_kmplayer has them but not kaffeine, which is a nonsense since they use the same engine :)12:25
Tonio_Riddell: okay, will do that way then12:25
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Tonio_Riddell: ho and I saw your comment on kmplayer, sorry for the "s/ship/shit" hehe :)12:26
Tonio_it was late :)12:27
Riddellt and p are quite far apart on my keyboard :)12:27
Tonio_Riddell: on mine too, that's the problem hehe :)12:27
Tonio_imbrandon: see bugs 6255412:28
UbugtuMalone bug 62554 in kmplayer "0.9.2a -> 0.9.3 UVF Exception Request" [Undecided,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/6255412:28
imbrandonTonio_, well if kmplayer and kaffeine both use them would it not be better to put in kdelibs for both ? just asking as i dont deal with those packages much at all12:28
=== imbrandon looks
Tonio_imbrandon: kdelibs has the mimetypes, but I need to change kaffeine to be associated to them, here is the point12:29
imbrandonahhh ok12:29
=== imbrandon misunderstood
imbrandonTonio_, hahaha @ the bug boo boo12:33
Tonio_imbrandon: as I said, it was *very* late ;)12:34
imbrandonhehe yea ;)12:34
Tonio_but yes, I've been 0wn3d, as young people would way :)12:35
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imbrandonRiddell, p0wnd j0012:35
Tonio_those keys are closed this time :)12:36
Tonio_hum, I read yesterday that kde 3.5.6 might use beryl or an improved kwin with effects....12:38
Tonio_that's cool news, since it would be a pain to wait for kde4 to do the same than metacity already has12:38
imbrandonTonio_, zphou made some ( ppc only ) beryl packages i was looking into trying sometime today12:41
imbrandonRiddell, compiz fork12:41
Riddellsounds gtkish12:41
imbrandonbut beryl works with kde better afaik12:42
imbrandonthan plain compiz12:42
Tonio_Riddell: beryl is a fork of compiz, to remove gconf deps etc.......12:42
imbrandonbut i dont have alot of experince with eithert other than just playing with them12:42
Tonio_Riddell: beryl should be independant from gtk stuff, that's why certain kde guys suggest to consider this waiting for a new kwin12:43
Tonio_imbrandon: I wanted to test, but there are no beryl + aiglx packages for edgy at the moment12:44
Tonio_imbrandon: only xgl, and I don't want xgl on my laptop :)12:44
Tonio_Riddell: in case you're interested : http://wiki.beryl-project.org/index.php/Install/Ubuntu12:45
imbrandonTonio_, no aiglx ?12:45
Tonio_imbrandon: nope12:45
imbrandonahh yea the aiglx page is empty12:45
Tonio_works for dapper but no packages for edgy......12:45
imbrandonshouldent be hard to adapt then12:46
imbrandoni wouldent imagine12:46
Tonio_Riddell: talking about that do you actually know why aiglx isn't in ubuntu ? I though it was one of the main goals of edgy......12:46
imbrandonTonio_, it is afaik12:46
imbrandonTonio_, xorg 7.1 has aiglx by default afaik12:47
Tonio_imbrandon: then why do we have to install another X from compiz repos to use it ?12:47
imbrandonummm we dont compiz and everything is in edgy12:47
imbrandonajmitch did alot of work in that area not long ago with quin12:48
Riddellberyl is just a themable compiz without the gconf dependency12:48
imbrandonRiddell, basicly12:48
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imbrandonTonio_, http://www.ubuntu-zh.org/~freeflying/beryl-deb/   you might ask zphou for the /debian12:50
imbrandonif you wanna build for non-ppc12:50
imbrandon( those are for edgy )12:50
RiddellTonio_: because most people can't use it with free drivers12:51
Tonio_Riddell: yeah, because of nvidia, once again.......;12:51
imbrandonyea nvidia free driver dosent work with it ;(12:52
Tonio_imbrandon: it should change in the near future12:52
ajmitchimbrandon: hm?12:53
imbrandonajmitch, talking about third party repos shouldent be needed for compiz in edgy12:53
imbrandon( not beryl )12:53
Tonio_hum works pretty well :)12:54
ajmitchimbrandon: oh right12:54
Tonio_imbrandon: I just installed beryl from the dapper repo, and it works like a charm :)12:54
ajmitchpeople will still use them12:54
imbrandonyea something about new crack but since quins broke my install i'm leary about repos i dont trust ;)12:55
Tonio_well the issue is still that we really miss kwin then.... I'll still wait I think :)12:55
imbrandonTonio_, yea with kwin it will be nicer for kde but it will be a while i'm thinking12:56
imbrandonkde 3.5.6 or kde 412:56
Tonio_I read 3.5.612:56
imbrandonTonio_, rember the link?12:58
Tonio_imbrandon: it was a french kde developper on a french forum :)12:58
Tonio_imbrandon: don't think that would help you a lot :)12:58
imbrandonahh ok12:59
imbrandoni was thinking it was on a ML or dot12:59
RiddellI think I'd remember if I'd published a story like that on the dot :)01:01
imbrandonheheh true01:02
imbrandonRiddell, you run dot ?01:02
imbrandonoh wow , i dident know that01:02
Tonio_hum, even yakuake works :)01:05
Tonio_I'm impressed ;)01:06
imbrandonyou just used the dapper debs ?01:06
imbrandonno rebuild ? cool01:06
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RiddellTonio_: I'm removing your kubuntu_54_mouse_scroll_speed.diff from kde 3.5.501:30
HobbseeRiddell: we have 3.5.5 now?01:30
RiddellI do01:31
Hobbseenice :)01:31
HobbseeRiddell: so you're in need of testers, i take it?01:31
imbrandonRiddell, is it tagged yet ? or early stuff01:31
=== imbrandon needed a reason to rid the lappy of gnome ;)
RiddellI assume it's tagged since there are tars01:31
imbrandon2.5.5 going in edgy ? 01:31
imbrandonerr s/2/301:31
RiddellHobbsee: not yet, I've only compiled arts01:32
HobbseeRiddell: ahh okay01:32
Riddellimbrandon: I've no idea01:32
Hobbseemay as well.  saves us supporting 2 versions.01:32
imbrandonRiddell, cool , man i wish i had my fast box to help 01:32
=== imbrandon looks at a xine-lib patch
ajmitchimbrandon: trying to build the world?01:33
Tonio_Riddell: is there any reason you removed it ?01:34
Tonio_Riddell: I though the patch had gone to the svn no ?01:34
imbrandonheh ajmitch nah just to fix *.shn files in amarok01:35
imbrandonajmitch, but yea lots of things depend on xine-lib soooo01:35
=== imbrandon contemplates it
RiddellTonio_: it doesn't apply, there's been a change to that file but I'm not sure if it's the same as your patch01:35
ajmitchimbrandon: you could use my box if you could stand the lack of bandwidth01:35
imbrandonajmitch, that would be rockin01:36
ajmitchimbrandon: what do you need?01:36
ajmitchI found that only 1 of the 2 power supply fans has stopped01:37
imbrandonjust pbuilder really01:37
imbrandonahh nice01:37
imbrandonwell kinda nice01:37
imbrandonbetter than none01:37
ajmitchso it still has some airflow01:37
ajmitchplus there are a bunch of other fans in the case which I haven't hooked up but still can01:38
=== ajmitch is just digging to get the cables out now
Tonio_Riddell: remove the patch, I'll have a look later.... but toma confirmed me that the patch had been merged in svn01:46
RiddellTonio_: ok, so that'll be why it doesn't apply :)01:48
sebasRiddell: What's the status of the meeting minutes?01:52
sebasnevermind, I see they're published.01:53
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jitahow much time it takes to boot the system completely?01:56
Riddellsebas: planning any sort of publicity for it?01:57
Riddelljita: that depends on 50 different things01:57
jitaits takes too much time on my machine amd athlon 2.0 with 512MB ram01:58
jitaaround 1 min 20 secs01:58
jitais it normal?01:59
imbrandonjita, yea a minute and a half is about right02:01
jitaand whats the proper way of disabling the services i dont need from the boot?02:02
imbrandonjita, more approperate for a support channel but afaik you can install "bum" ( boot up manager ) and do it from there02:08
imbrandonor just do it the "debian" way of thinking and uninstall what you dont need02:08
RiddellTonio_: hmm, kubuntu_75_kicker_taskbar_resize.diff also doesn't apply02:10
Riddellin kdebase02:10
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imbrandonwas that the one to make it 48px by default? with 3.5.5 we could probably reengerre that OR set it in k-d-s02:15
Hobbseeimbrandon: yeah, i twould have been02:16
jitahow do i disable some partitions frm auto mounting from boot?02:17
imbrandonedit /etc/fstab and add the option "noauto" , again more suited to a support channel like #kubuntu02:18
jitacould anyone please look at this bug? https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/mesa-utils/+bug/6346102:21
UbugtuMalone bug 63461 in mesa-utils "Xlib:  extension "GLX" missing on display ":0.0"" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  02:21
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imbrandonheya bddebian 02:38
bddebianHi imbrandon02:38
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mhbhello everyone02:53
imbrandonmoins mhb 02:53
imbrandonRiddell, how are simes patches holding up in 3.5.5 ?02:54
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Riddellimbrandon: fine, just one indentatio change needed03:03
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gnomefreakis there a testing repo for 3.5.5 yet?03:24
Tonio_Riddell: kubuntu_75_kicker_taskbar_resize.diff is not from me03:26
Tonio_Riddell: you added it to close kde bug 12855203:28
UbugtuKDE bug 128552 in taskbarapplet "REGRESSION: "Length" has no effect if External TaskBar is at the side of the screen" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]  http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12855203:28
RiddellTonio_: oh, oops :)03:32
RiddellTonio_: ok, guess that's been fixed upstream then03:32
Tonio_Riddell: hehe :)03:32
Tonio_Riddell: probably yes03:32
Riddellthat'll be digikam in main then03:33
Tonio_Riddell: yes, I'm just waiting for the information to refresh on the repos and I'll upgrade kubuntu-desktop03:33
Tonio_Riddell: thanks for letting me do, that helps to learn ;)03:33
gnomefreakbtw is there anyway to stop kubuntu usplash from overwriting the settings? and kubuntu adds a grub splash also but doesnt work.03:38
Tonio_gnomefreak: as long as your theme isn't called "kubuntu", settings aren't overwritten03:39
gnomefreakTonio_: i use the ubuntu usplash and any update to kubuntu usplash changes it to kubuntu usplash03:40
Tonio_ah oups........ usplash :)03:40
gnomefreakits overwriting update-alternatives03:40
Tonio_gnomefreak: yes, we did that to force changing the settings since there was an error03:40
Tonio_gnomefreak: that should be removed from kde before edgy is out03:41
gnomefreakok cool03:41
Tonio_gnomefreak: but we need to keep it for the moment03:41
imbrandongnomefreak, well not atm they arent really designed to be installed side by side , but i'll work on a way to make that not happen as i was the one that added it in03:41
gnomefreakthats fine i just wasnt sure if you were aware of it03:41
Riddellaware of what?03:41
Tonio_gnomefreak: in fact we renamed the usplash so we have to for the removal and reinstalling of the old one03:41
gnomefreakusplash being overwriten03:41
Tonio_Riddell: yes, that's what we had to force in kds03:42
imbrandonwhen you have all the usplashes installed , kubuntu is defaulted ever time k-d-s is updated ( that last bit of --set i added is doing it ) but i need to find another solution03:42
imbrandonRiddell, ^^03:42
Tonio_the problem is that since we renamed since dapper, I wonder what is the impact for people migrating from dapper to edgy without the force........03:42
Tonio_maybe we will have to let it, I'm unsure03:42
imbrandonTonio_, exactly , i'll figure it out before today is over, i was just looking at that infact03:43
gnomefreakimbrandon: no rush03:43
gnomefreaki just wasnt sure if it was meant to do that03:43
Tonio_imbrandon: the problem is that certain people have a "manual" alternative for an unknown reason03:43
Tonio_imbrandon: if it is not "auto" for everyone, we don't have another choice than forcing the deletion and reinstallation03:43
imbrandonTonio_, yea , its a race 03:43
Tonio_which sets it by default03:43
Tonio_gnomefreak: so here is the problem......03:44
imbrandonTonio_, right right, yea thats why i made it that way, but i wasent thinking of if people have two -desktops installed03:44
Tonio_gnomefreak: if we remove that, it'll work for 90% of the users, but potentially about 10% will have the issue03:44
Riddellgnomefreak: what's this about a grub splash?03:44
imbrandonTonio_, i have another solution i think ;) slow up buddy hehe03:44
imbrandonRiddell, usplash 03:45
Tonio_imbrandon: can you explain please ?03:45
gnomefreakRiddell: kubuntu install sets up a grub theme but before grub comes up it says it cant be found  03:45
Tonio_gnomefreak: are we really installig this ?03:45
Tonio_gnomefreak: never seen that03:45
gnomefreakTonio_: maybe03:45
gnomefreakTonio_: i install a buch of things with kubuntu03:45
imbrandonTonio_, where the packages use the rank in updatealternative instead of -set03:45
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Riddellgnomefreak: we have kubuntu-grub-splashimages but that certainly shouldn't be installed by default03:46
Tonio_kubuntu-grub-splashimages - grub splashimages for Kubuntu03:46
gnomefreakTonio_: but i think even installing the grub-themes package but still should let the person config it03:46
Tonio_Riddell: yeah it isn't... but maybe it doesn't work with grub updates, since raphink didn't maintain it recently afaik03:46
imbrandonwe have splash images for grub? i though those were turned off intentionaly becouse it broke on most video cards03:47
Tonio_imbrandon: yes, but there is a package, raphink did it03:47
Tonio_imbrandon: we don't ship it by default, of course03:47
imbrandonTonio_,  as far as the usplash thing, i have it fixed localy i think testing after bit and i'll upload it tonight or in the morning03:48
raphinkTonio_: my package doesn't work?03:48
Tonio_imbrandon: well if you find a better way to fix the alternative even when set to manual, would be nice :)03:48
imbrandonbasicly using the update-alternatives in the usplash to determine not the -set03:48
Tonio_raphink: don't know, but gnomefreak reports it doesn't03:48
gnomefreaki know i installed the kubuntu-grub-splash package now. but since its not pointing to right place (maybe due to dualbooting) it tells me to hit a key to continue than grub comes up. i dont think its that bad personally cause i can easily stop it but im thinking newusers may not know how to edit /boot/grub/menu.lst03:48
imbrandongnomefreak, new users also wont install that package ;)03:49
imbrandonbut good point03:49
gnomefreakimbrandon: alot of people look to change the grub screen03:49
Tonio_gnomefreak: nope, a lot of geeks do :)03:50
gnomefreakok us too ;)03:50
Tonio_gnomefreak: and geeks generally now how to edit menu.lst03:50
Tonio_as you and me in fact03:50
imbrandonthat and its as easy as adding a splash.xpm.gz to /boot/grub/03:50
Tonio_my sister will never install kubuntu-grub-splash03:50
imbrandonno "package" needed ;)03:50
imbrandonwell that + update-grub03:51
Tonio_the point is I wouldn't let a package touching to menu.lst03:51
Tonio_first because it is hard to make it automatic, since the file depends on the machine config03:51
Tonio_and secondly, because if we miss an upgrade, that is way to dangerous :)03:52
imbrandonTonio_, packages dont have to , grub looks for a specific image name e.g. splash.xpm.gz unless its specified in the config03:52
gnomefreak# Splashimage line added by kubuntu-grub-splashimages package03:53
Tonio_imbrandon: yeah but that's a pain to manage too, since if we have packages providing this, we have to maintain the conflicts btween all of them03:53
gnomefreakthat is default in grub03:53
imbrandonso cp myimage.xpm.gz to /boot/grub/ && update-grub works03:53
gnomefreakwhent he package is installed03:53
imbrandonTonio_, thats what the alternatives system is for ;)03:53
Tonio_but I agree that's another possibility03:53
Tonio_imbrandon: I don't say it is not fesable ;)03:54
imbrandonmay not be "easy" but its right03:54
Tonio_just that it is long to do03:54
Tonio_imbrandon: we can think about it for edgy +103:54
imbrandontrue 03:54
Tonio_too late for edgy and mdz would kill us if we even think to touch to something relative to grub ;)03:54
Tonio_and honnestly, I don't want to loose my upload rights ^_^03:55
imbrandonok , i'm gonna go grab some food, gnomefreak / Tonio_ i'll try to get the usplash stuff figured out tonight 100% but for now you have to use kubuntus gnomefreak ;)03:55
Tonio_imbrandon: very cool :) have a good meal03:55
imbrandonTonio_, agreed03:56
imbrandon( on the grub )03:56
Tonio_imbrandon: can "don't use gnome, that sucks" be an alternative solution to the bug ? ;)03:56
imbrandoni wish03:56
Tonio_hehe ^^03:56
Tonio_gnomefreak: kidding of course :)03:56
imbrandonRiddell, did we ever talk kwwii into putting a color behind the usplash ? imho i'm with you and thing it would rock03:57
gnomefreakimbrandon: thats fine ;)03:58
imbrandongnomefreak, tbh it was a hack to the postinst i added that causes that to make upgrades from dapper to edgy work smooth, but i have a better solution now i'll try tonight03:59
gnomefreakimbrandon: ok03:59
Tonio_imbrandon: yeah I did, he suggested one..... we should give a try03:59
imbrandonbecosue when i was doing it i dident think about gnome uspalshers with both desktops installed03:59
imbrandonTonio_, ohh he made one ?04:00
imbrandonok welp i'm off to some food, bbiab04:00
Tonio_imbrandon: no but he suggested a color :) we should give a try04:00
imbrandonahh ok04:00
Tonio_we should re-ask him04:00
imbrandonright, hopefully he will pop in today04:00
Tonio_imbrandon: hopefully :)04:01
Tonio_imbrandon: just received this : Invitation to UDS Mountain View04:02
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HobbseeTonio_: nice!  congrats!04:04
Tonio_hehe thanks :)04:05
zphouimbrandon: how about the beryl on your ppc?04:06
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imbrandonTonio_, whoohoo , me too "Subject: Invitation to UDS Mountain View"04:11
imbrandonzphou, i havent installed it yet, i have it downloaded04:11
imbrandonbut not installed yet, have a few more things to get finished, moving my /var and /home to a new partition and stuff04:11
imbrandonbut i will before today is done04:11
zphouimbrandon: cool, you got invitation to UDS :)04:13
Hobbseeimbrandon: congratulations04:19
Hobbseeoh good, i didnt get an email04:19
imbrandonhehe thanks04:19
DaSkreechIt's open to the public?04:21
DaSkreechOh Wow it's @ google :)04:22
=== DaSkreech pokes imbrandon
DaSkreechGrab me a copy of Goobuntu :)04:22
marseillai_Riddell: shouldn't you add a blank repository for edgy in amarok-latest and koffice-latest before the release? it will perhaps avoid problems ....04:22
zphouDaSkreech: giibuntu?04:23
DaSkreechgilbuntu is more like it04:23
Hobbseemarseillai_: for people upgrading?04:25
Hobbseefrom dapper?04:25
marseillai_Riddell: people who change every "dapper" by "edgy" in there sources.list and have errors when upgrading04:25
marseillai_Hobbsee: yes04:25
RiddellI see, I suppose I could do that04:26
imbrandonmarseillai_, well if there is nothing in the repo ( e.g. blank Packages.gz ) then apt will complain just as much afaik04:28
Riddellimbrandon: shouldn't do04:28
marseillai_are you sure that an empty repos is not better than a non existing repo imbrandon ? 'im not sure ....04:29
imbrandonahh ok i was thinking it would maybe its just if one arch is missing but the Releases says its there04:29
RiddellTonio_: I'm removing kubuntu_13_downgrade_kwallet.diff too since it doesn't apply, we can re-do the patch if we still have kwallet problems04:29
Tonio_Riddell: yes04:30
freeflyingRiddell: do you think we really needd kwallet?04:30
Riddellfreeflying: of course04:30
RiddellI can't live without it, all those passwords04:30
Tonio_Riddell: we can think about replacing it eventually ;)04:30
Tonio_kde-pwmanager is a kwallet emulator, and is by far more complete04:31
marseillai_pwmanager ?04:31
DaSkreechAnd Riddell is we :)04:31
RiddellTonio_: more complete in what way?04:31
freeflyingRiddell: but all passwd stored in it are plain text04:31
Tonio_Riddell: you can use it as password generator too04:31
Riddellfreeflying: they are not, they're strongly encrypted04:31
Tonio_Riddell: and its UI to store and read the pawsswords is more "clear" to me04:32
freeflyingRiddell: anyone can read the passwd from it04:32
Riddellfreeflying: it's definately encrypted, ~/.kde/share/apps/kwallet/kdewallet.kwl04:33
Tonio_freeflying: yeah there is no security issue with it04:33
freeflyingRiddell: but when you happen left your desktop, then anyone can read your passwds using kwallet04:33
Tonio_freeflying: and can do many more.......04:34
Tonio_freeflying: first security is the user....04:34
marseillai_freeflying: right click and lock session04:34
freeflyingmarseillai_: I see :)04:35
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Riddellfreeflying: only if you have given kwallet manager permission to read the wallet always 04:35
imbrandonfreeflying, you shouldent walk away from the computer without locking the screen anyhow04:36
freeflyingheh, seems I'd give up  :)04:36
Riddellhttp://wiki.debian.org/DebianDesktopArtwork/WallpapersEtch  interesting bunch, I'd go for 1 or 204:37
Riddellfabo: is there going to be a common default wallpaper between gnome and kde in etch?04:37
imbrandonyea i like #104:38
Tonio_hum, yes, #1 is cool04:39
faboRiddell: we'll try but etch is too close ... so i don't think it will be the same04:45
gnomefreaki like 604:49
Tonio_Riddell: kubuntu-desktop uploaded05:03
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imbrandonRiddell, ping05:11
Riddellhi imbrandon 05:11
imbrandonhey , i'm i reading this wrong or is there a messup in the dates05:11
imbrandonfor UDS05:11
imbrandon Dates - Please arrange to arrive by the evening of Saturday 4th 05:11
imbrandonNovember.  The event will start at 09.00 on Monday 5th November05:11
imbrandon5th is Sunday05:11
RiddellSunday 5th to Friday 10th November 200605:11
Riddellsays https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UbuntuDeveloperSummitMountainView05:12
imbrandonok so she just mistyped and said monday05:12
imbrandonjust makin sure05:12
Riddellcurious day to start on sunday, not surprised she got confused05:12
RiddellTonio_: "Removed kmplayer-konq-plugins" ?05:12
Tonio_Riddell: hu ?05:13
Tonio_what's that ?05:13
RiddellTonio_: your upload of kubuntu-meta05:13
Tonio_Riddell: I just performed ./update05:13
Riddellit's still in the seeds05:13
Tonio_Riddell: hum......05:14
Tonio_yeah, I missed that in the changelog......05:14
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Tonio_what's this ?05:14
Tonio_Riddell: it went back to universe........05:15
Tonio_Riddell: who did this ?05:15
Riddellyes, it has05:15
Riddellno idea05:15
Tonio_Riddell: could my upgrade cause this ?05:15
imbrandoni dident touch it .... heh05:15
Tonio_Riddell: maybe someone though it was a frontend to mplayer and thus it couldn't be in universe05:15
Riddellthat does seem to be a common misunderstanding05:16
Tonio_yeah no issues in the seeds, I was *very* carefull when I touched this05:16
Tonio_Riddell: yes, kmplayer name is stupid........05:16
imbrandonmdz commented on a bug reciently thinking it was a mplayer frontend05:16
Tonio_Riddell: I'm pinging on #ubuntu-devel05:16
Riddellthat's why goldenear is changing it :)05:16
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Tonio_I'm pretty sure it is this.....05:18
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goldenearactualy kmplayer will stay kmplayer for kde 3.505:21
Tonio_goldenear: yeah we know ;)05:21
goldenearit will become oskar for kde 4 :)05:21
Tonio_just that it confuses the "masters" of ubuntu since they generally use gnome :)05:21
Tonio_I'm pretty sure it has been removed because of its name......05:22
goldenearI can't see an other reason...05:23
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goldenearkmplayer is fully gpl and not mplayer or any closed source codec dependent05:23
goldenearbtw Tonio_, I've switched to edgy now :)05:24
Tonio_goldenear: we know :) just that the name is historic :)05:24
Tonio_goldenear: and your feedback ?05:24
goldenearIt was really a pain to install it !!!05:24
goldenearthe desktop cd doesn't work for me (I report the bug)... It fails during hardware detectection05:25
goldenearthe alternate cd works, but it doesn't recognise my network card (missing r1000 module, "bug" reported)05:26
goldenearI had to install the fr language pack after install (when r1000 module is loaded)05:26
goldenearAlso I don't know if it's normal, but I don't have a splash screen during the boot process05:27
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RiddellTonio_: did we add foomatic-cleanupdrivers to k-d-s?05:29
Tonio_Riddell: yes05:30
Tonio_Riddell: so if I understand correctly, keybuk removed it by mistake ?05:30
RiddellTonio_: seems to be the case, lets poke him in a few hours if it hasn't gone back in05:32
Riddellhttps://launchpad.net/bugs/42965 suggests foomatic should be fixed, but lets leave foomatic-cleanupdrivers in k-d-s anyway for now05:32
UbugtuMalone bug 42965 in foomatic-db-engine "Can't add a printer in KDE: parser error?" [High,Fix released]  05:32
Tonio_Riddell: yes, I'll reupdate kubuntu-desktop05:32
Tonio_hum, interesting, so can remove the foomatic stuff from kds then......05:33
Tonio_in the future I mean :)05:33
Tonio_Riddell: let's keep it for edgy, as it doesn't have any consequences, and we'll try to remove it for edgy+1 and see if we get bugs during the dev cycle05:34
Tonio_that sounds reasonnable05:34
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goldenearTonio_: also about feedback, I'm happy to see that acpi/hibernate is now working (except the wifi has to be ifdown and up to be working after resume) :)05:41
Tonio_goldenear: knetworkmanager is the key for this ;)05:41
goldenearThe big problem is that suspend doesn't work properly: the screen stay blank when the computer wakes up :(05:41
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goldenear<Tonio_> goldenear: knetworkmanager is the key for this ;) <- I don't agree, under windows wifi is working after resume... this is a bug!05:42
Tonio_goldenear: yes, true, but knetworkmanager is a good workarround waiting for the acpi support to improve :)05:43
goldenearI like the automatic mp3 codec install from amarok also... this will avoid many questions on the irc and in the forums :D05:43
Tonio_goldenear: we now have the same for flash in konqueror too :)05:44
goldenearyes I also see this... but it's still the same old flash pluggin with the sound delay issue :(05:45
goldenearI hope gnash will be ready soon :)05:45
Tonio_goldenear: yes, we haven't been able to develop flash9 on our own :)05:45
freeflyingTonio_: I've nerver setup my wireless network using knetworkmanager  :)05:45
Tonio_goldenear: the good news is that the structure of that konq plugin allow to make it compatible with any external lib05:46
Tonio_goldenear: that will be used too with flash9 when it's out05:46
Tonio_freeflying: well if you like to connect with the shell :) that's your problem ^^05:47
goldenearyou mean in 2010 ? ;)05:47
Tonio_goldenear: first months of 200705:47
Tonio_that's not that far :)05:47
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freeflyingTonio_: knetworkmanager always tell me that I have not any wireless devices  :)05:47
goldenearsure .... they already promise flash 8 for last year :)05:48
goldenearwait and see...05:48
Tonio_freeflying: yeah that can happen with certain drivers that are uncompatible05:48
Tonio_freeflying: that can be resolved in wpasupplicant configuration05:48
Tonio_freeflying: simply start the good driver and that should be okay05:48
goldenearknetworkmanager is not very user friendly for wifi configuration (no way to list available network and no way to use wpa)05:49
Tonio_knetworkmanager by default uses wext05:49
Tonio_goldenear: hu ????????05:49
freeflyingTonio_: good driver?05:49
Tonio_goldenear: that kwifimanager, not knetworkmanager :)05:49
Tonio_freeflying: look at wpa_supplicant man page05:50
Tonio_freeflying: it starts with a 'driver' parameter05:50
freeflyingTonio_: i see, thanks05:50
Tonio_by default knm uses wext, which is generic, but you can change this05:50
goldenearkwifimanager ??? is that installed by default ?05:50
Tonio_goldenear: no, by default we have wireless-assistant, which is nice, but no wpa05:51
Tonio_goldenear: then you can install knetworkmanager, which does everything, as long as your wifi driver is 'wext compatible'05:51
Tonio_most are, except madwifi for example, but that's on the way to be resolved05:51
=== Tonio_ has learned the lesson !
goldenearwireless-assistant had never worked for me... it detects network around, but always report it can't connect (even if it actualy do it).05:52
Tonio_I think ndiswrapper is now compatible with wext for example05:52
goldenearI almost alway use the command line to set up my wifi :)05:53
Tonio_goldenear: btw it is now unmaintained.... only knetworkmanager really works05:53
Tonio_except aseigo, I don't know any person using kfiwimanager too :)05:53
goldenearkwifimanager you mean ?05:53
Tonio_goldenear: no, only knetworkmanager really works05:54
Tonio_kwifimanager sucks, and same for wireless-assistant05:54
gnomefreakwhat is the dialog run by when you install mp3 support for amarok?05:54
goldenearI used kwlan is dapper05:54
Tonio_gnomefreak: depending the desktop used05:54
goldenearis worked pretty well and has wpa support05:54
gnomefreakTonio_: it loops05:54
Tonio_gnomefreak: I scripted to use gtk under gnome, kde under kde and xterm for the rest05:55
gnomefreakbut the bug is under amarok i was gonna change it but i cant think of it05:55
Tonio_gnomefreak: there was an issue, but that is supposed to work now no ?05:55
gnomefreakbug 6378305:55
UbugtuMalone bug 63783 in amarok "Insists on installing mp3 codec" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/6378305:55
mhbdoes someone work on Kubuntu package installer? (like gdebi)05:55
gnomefreakTonio_: it keeps going as of yesterday 05:55
Tonio_gnomefreak: lemme check05:55
gnomefreakmhb: i dont think there is one for kubuntu yet05:56
Tonio_gnomefreak: hum.... using kde ?05:56
gnomefreakim not he might be i was using gnome at the time05:56
Tonio_mhb: there is one, in the form of a service menu05:56
jdong_mhb: use gtk-qt engine and then mv gdebi kdebi? :D05:56
Tonio_right click on a deb file and you'll see05:56
jdong_Tonio_: the service menu is nothing more than dpkg -i in an xterm05:57
Tonio_mhb: that's limited but it works05:57
Tonio_jdong_: true that05:57
jdong_Tonio_: that's not a very compelling replacement to gdebi :)05:57
jdong_which actually does effective dependency resolution05:57
=== jdong_ just installs gdebi on kubuntu and calls it a day
gnomefreaki think we should have one05:57
Tonio_well that can be scripted....05:57
=== mhb votes for one too
gnomefreakjdong_: too many gtk libs i think for some users to do that05:58
Riddellmhb: it's blocked on pykde supporting an embedded konsole, which will happen in the next release with luck05:58
jdong_gnomefreak: pfft.... most people won't have a problem with that05:58
jdong_gnomefreak: I think it pulls in like 10MB->55MB of packages altogehter05:58
jdong_from fresh kubuntu05:59
jdong_and if people install firefox, gdebi hitches almost for free05:59
gnomefreakjdong_: doesn gnome-base get inclueded?05:59
Tonio_gnomefreak: concerning the loop, I'll try to have a look at that toonight......05:59
jdong_Depends: python (>= 2.4), python (<< 3), python-gtk2 (>= 2.6.3-2), python-glade2 (>= 2.6.3-2), python-apt (>=, python-vte (>= 1:0.11.15-4), gksu (>= 1.3.6-1), gnome-icon-theme (>= 2.14.0-1)05:59
gnomefreaklooking at the depends for it most are python05:59
=== gnomefreak looking at them :)
gnomefreakty Tonio_ 06:00
jdong_Depends: hicolor-icon-theme, librsvg2-common06:00
jdong_that's it06:00
jdong_other than gtk2, it doesn't ask for anything else06:00
jdong_and many kubuntu users will have gtk2 needed by their other favorite apps anyway06:00
jdong_unless you're a kde purist :)06:00
gnomefreaksadist maybe ;)06:00
Riddellkubuntu is indeed kde pure06:01
Tonio_jdong_: which apps ? ^^06:01
gnomefreakTonio_: gdebi06:01
jdong_Tonio_: firefox is probably the biggest one06:01
Tonio_gnomefreak: no ! I was talking about gtk apps kubuntu users should use :)06:01
jdong_Tonio_: konq is an awesome browser06:01
jdong_but it isn't always a replacement for firefox06:01
Tonio_jdong_: my real battle is to convince people that firefox sucks :)06:01
Tonio_that's my first battle06:01
jdong_Tonio_: you're gonna have a tough time with that06:01
jdong_I'm pulling up konq to digg.com, the icons are distorted06:02
jdong_and ther'es overlapping text06:02
gnomefreakit has its good points and bad points but i think its the most widely used06:02
jdong_I pull it up to gmail and get sent back to static html world06:02
jdong_those two alone are enough to make lots of users run back to firefox06:02
Tonio_jdong_: those are IE6 users arguments06:02
jdong_anti-flame disclaimer: I use konq in kde for most of my kde browsing06:02
Tonio_"I use IE6 because all websites work"06:02
jdong_Tonio_: still... I could care less about the standards when I need to pay my bills and the site doesn't like it06:03
Tonio_the point is I consider firefox doesn't do what it has been designed to06:03
jdong_I'm not saying firefox is elegant06:03
jdong_it really isn't06:03
jdong_but a lot of the times linux has few other alternatives06:03
Tonio_firebird has been annouced to be a fast/simple reimplementation of mozilla06:04
jdong_even opera is not up-to-par with the whole websites working ordeal06:04
Tonio_the result is something that is even slower and much more complicated06:04
Tonio_that's a bad result06:04
jdong_I agree...06:04
Tonio_opera and konqueror have generally the same "bugs"06:04
jdong_yes, because of their strict standards compliance06:04
Tonio_the reason is simple, they are the closests to the standards06:04
Tonio_I prefer to avoid a stupid website than browsing with a diplodocus that takes 30 seconds to start, like firefox06:05
jdong_I've got a few sites that are unavoidable06:05
jdong_for academic purposes and for banking06:06
jdong_and pulling up firefox is less evil than pulling up IE6/WINE06:06
Tonio_jdong_: I generally send an email describing the ugly code, and most of the time, except for big websites, the webmaster is pleased to correct it a bit06:06
jdong_(ahem, big sites, proprietary homework  submitting solutions)06:07
Tonio_jdong_: but yes, I use firefox (shame on me) on very rare circumstances06:07
jdong_where webmasters ignore me for the simplest requests06:07
jdong_(allowing +'s in e-mail addresses)06:07
Tonio_the french train company for example -> website uncompatible with opera or konq06:07
Tonio_I don't have another choice than using firesox06:07
jdong_Tonio_: you got a CD handy to help me reproduce yet another kubuntu-media bug?06:07
Tonio_jdong_: so cd there, sorry.... what is the issue ?06:08
jdong_Tonio_: when you insert a cd, you get the kde deamon dialog, right?06:08
marseillai_<jdong_> I pull it up to gmail and get sent back to static html world ----------->> you must change konqueror identity for this page06:08
Tonio_jdong_: yes06:08
jdong_marseillai_: faking identity still ends up with quirky ajax. buttons don't work... I've lost e-mails to that06:09
jdong_Tonio_: select do nothing or X it out06:09
jdong_(use case: I'm inserting a DVD to acidrip it. no mounting is needed)06:09
Tonio_okay, and then what happens ?06:09
marseillai_jdong_: for me it works fine. i use it all days and it's exactly the same interface with konqueror and firefox06:09
jdong_Tonio_: now, kubuntu has no idea about the cd, and you never get the chance to mount it again06:09
jdong_Tonio_: to make matters worse, press the eject button on the cd drive..06:10
jdong_Tonio_: and kioslaves pops up with an ugly error that it doesn't know about /dev/scd006:10
Tonio_jdong_: interesting.......; let me test06:10
jdong_and if you used acidrip or other block-device-accessing programs, you now have a locked cd tray06:10
=== Tonio_ goes taking a cd
jdong_so you're down to a terminal issuing eject commands :)06:10
=== Goldenear_ [n=goldenea@vol75-4-82-225-33-186.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel
Goldenear_Tonio_: about the wifi not working after hibernate, shouldn't this simply be fixed but ifdown any working network interface before hibernate/suspend and ifup them after resume ?06:11
jdong_Tonio_: the no-second-chance-to-mount-if-you-don't-take-your-first gotcha also applies to USB sticks06:11
jdong_but the CD/DVD one is extra annoying06:11
jdong_yesterday when I was acidripping 12 dvd's, it got so annoying to the point that I had to go to GNOME to finish my work06:12
Tonio_jdong_: works here06:12
LureRiddell: ping06:12
Tonio_I can discard, eject, and I'm prompted again06:12
jdong_Tonio_: if you cancel the mount dialog, you can still mount?06:12
Tonio_jdong_: yes06:13
Riddellhi Lure 06:13
jdong_Tonio_: without ejecting it?06:13
Tonio_I can manually eject and mount it06:13
jdong_well, you have to eject it06:13
jdong_but /media does not recognize the cd as a cd06:13
marseillai_i agree with jdong! when you unmount a CD or an usb disk he disappear from desktop or kicker applet and you must use command line to mount it.06:13
jdong_if you cancel and don't eject06:13
Tonio_jdong_: true too, you simply go to /media using system menu06:13
Tonio_double click and it mounts06:13
=== oofus [n=chris@oofus.demon.co.uk] has joined #kubuntu-devel
jdong_Tonio_: brb, let me check if a recent kde update changed the situation06:13
marseillai_Tonio_: why we can't show unmount device on desktop since edgy ?06:14
marseillai_now only mount device are shown06:14
=== jdong [n=jdong@ubuntu/member/jdong] has joined #kubuntu-devel
gnomefreakTonio_: your gonna hurt me :(06:14
Tonio_gnomefreak: why ?06:15
gnomefreakamarok has no splash screen for me anymore06:15
Tonio_jdong: simply go in /media using konq06:15
=== DaSkreech finds out that Ctrl+L clears in Konversation :-(
Tonio_you can mount and eject from there06:15
jdongok, back06:15
jdongtest 1: inserting cd....06:15
jdongcanceled mount dialog06:15
Tonio_gnomefreak: I didn't touch this :)06:15
jdongno desktop icon....06:15
jdonggoing to media...06:15
jdongok, nvm, cdrom is fixed06:15
Tonio_gnomefreak: default amarok has been changed, that's all :)06:15
jdongmount is availabe from right click06:15
gnomefreakoh ok06:15
jdongTonio_: though clicking the drive (opening the link) opens a blank folder06:16
DaSkreechmy friend gets mediamanager not started when he types media:/06:16
Tonio_jdong: yes, that's a known issue, _Sime will fix it06:16
jdongTonio_: ok06:16
jdonglet me play with usb sticks then06:16
Tonio_jdong: but that's the only known issue on that point06:16
LureRiddell: what is you plan with shortcuts for suspend/hhibernate/battery (that sebas mentioned in mail)?06:16
gnomefreakah nevermind i didnt know there was a setting :(06:16
jdongTonio_: with the cd unmounted, open a terminal06:17
Tonio_jdong: the issue was probably that you had cdrom0 hidden, and you used the symlink cdrom06:17
Tonio_jdong: I fixed kds on that point06:17
jdongTonio_: run dd if=/dev/cdrom of=/dev/null06:17
RiddellLure: pykde has a bug which means we use kglobalaccelarator in guidance power manager06:17
jdongTonio_: to simulate ripping a cd or some other block device activity06:17
RiddellLure: so best place to add them would be to your ksmserver patch06:17
jdongTonio_: then press the eject button06:17
LureRiddell: so ksmserver would just display the dialog?06:17
Tonio_jdong: hum, yes, I can see this06:17
jdongTonio_: kioslaves returns the cryptic unknown-device error06:17
jdongTonio_: a "disk in use" is much more friendly than that :)06:18
LureRiddell: I could also add battery key support in kmilo (call powermanager->showTip over dcop)06:18
jdongTonio_: and if a program leaves the tray locked... it's even worse06:18
jdongTonio_: dd don't keep the tray locked. Some cd ripping programs do. in that case, you're off to eject-land06:18
RiddellLure: well it could directly just hiberate/suspend.06:18
RiddellLure: yes, that would be cool06:18
marseillai_Tonio_: before we had the possiblity to show or not the unmount device on desktop. why remove this possiblity?06:19
jdongmarseillai_: imo that was a regression introduced by sime's patches06:19
jdong(which btw are wonderful in every other way!)06:19
jdongI love the streamlined /media06:19
jdongjust there's still a few quirks06:19
marseillai_jdong: i can understand to not show them by default06:19
LureRiddell: problem is that I do not know what users would prefer - typically laptops have only one key (standby and sleep) and they might assigne different action06:19
jdongmarseillai_: no, as in the option no longer functions correctly.....06:20
RiddellLure: ah, tricky06:20
jdongmarseillai_: due to the patches06:20
marseillai_and imo kicker applet for removable device is largely better than desktop icons ......06:20
RiddellLure: well showing the dialogue is fine then.  or we could see what gnome does06:20
Tonio_jdong: I'm wondering if that not the same issue than the "blank page" when you go in using konq06:20
Tonio_jdong: maybe it just doesn't mount while it is supposed to06:20
jdongTonio_: it might be06:20
LureRiddell: I will check gnome again, but I think they have gconf entry...06:20
jdongTonio_: well, I don't always want to mount06:20
Tonio_jdong: better discuss this with _Sime since he has all keys concerning this06:20
jdongok, will try to catch him06:21
Tonio_jdong: the point is that's different from the kde base06:21
Tonio_he has patched this widely, so only him can understand what happens in fact06:21
RiddellLure: the gnome solution to everything :)06:22
jdongTonio_: if I plug in a usb stick and tell it to do nothing, I don't ever get the chance to mount it again06:22
jdongmedia is devoid of usb devices06:23
Tonio_jdong: looking06:23
jdongTonio_: and do nothing actually mounts the device (!)06:23
jdongTonio_: while cancel does what I just complained about06:24
Tonio_do nothing should mount the device06:24
Tonio_that "normal"06:24
Tonio_it means "mounts and do no action after this"06:24
Tonio_that makes sense06:24
jdongTonio_: maybe that should be stated then06:24
jdongTonio_: I always thought do nothing means leave it unmounted06:24
jdong(with an unmounted usb stick icon, etc)06:25
jdongI'm liable to yank it out assuming it was unmounted06:25
Tonio_hum, that probably just string issue in kde, should say "mount and don't perform anything else"06:25
jdongthat's better06:26
jdongeven Mount instead of "do nothing"06:26
Tonio_true that :) feel free to report on kde bts :)06:26
=== marseillai_ is now known as marseillai
jdongTonio_: you know how much I hate to touch that site :D06:27
Tonio_jdong: that's why I'm telling you "free free to do it" ;) I won't lol06:27
Tonio_the messiest website I've ever seen.......06:27
jdongTonio_: at least cancel should = do nothing in action06:27
jdongTonio_: that's a _Sime issue, right?06:28
jdongwasn't a kdebase upload yesterday supposed to effect that?06:28
Tonio_jdong: yes it is06:28
Tonio_and yes, I agree with you06:28
Tonio_cancel should "do nothing"06:28
Tonio_the problem is still there with the close button :)06:28
jdongwhy not just have do nothing DO NOTHING :)06:28
jdongcurrently 2 of 3 buttons think that's the case06:29
jdongand that's a majority vote of buttons :)06:29
Tonio_jdong: hum, because I think the "mount/unmount" doesn't have to be let to the user06:29
Tonio_it is complicated and doesn't have any reason to exist06:29
jdongTonio_: it should be exposed because it dictates whether or not it's safe to yank the device06:30
Tonio_do you "mount" on windows or osx ? the system deals with that on its own, and that's I think the goal of sime, making it automatic06:30
jdonguntil linux has another way around that issue, KDE should not cover up that aspect06:30
Tonio_jdong: I agree on that point06:30
jdongand OSX and Windows both have vfat drivers that are MUCH more resilient to yahnking corruption06:30
jdongthat's an aspect we cannot compete with06:30
jdongas much as I hate to admit it06:30
jdongI've done plenty of linux yanking tests06:31
jdongboth sync and async06:31
jdonglinux corrupts the fat structures far more often than windows or OSX06:31
Tonio_hum, that's true, yes06:31
jdongeither way, I have no issue with automounting, like what gnome does06:32
jdongit does make the user's life easier06:33
jdongbut don't give me the impression that you didn't ;-)06:33
jdong(s/Do Nothing/mount/ is probably our best solution)06:33
jdongeven if upstream doesn't do it, we should06:33
Tonio_jdong: too late to change the strings now06:33
=== serzholino [n=serzholi@16x.zp.ua] has joined #kubuntu-devel
Tonio_btw, we'll probably make a point with _Sime concerning the known bugs and resolved problem, and decide if we finally include his patches or not06:34
Tonio_maybe if there are too many issues we can had them for edgy + 1 so that _Sime has more time to polish the work06:35
jdongto be perfectly honest, if I were reviewing kubuntu today, I would come down very harshly on the kubuntu media issues I've noted06:35
jdongboth today and the other days06:35
jdongbut fortunately I don't have that kind of free time :D06:35
Tonio_jdong: take note on the issues, and be there when we debate this :)06:35
jdongTonio_: that's why I'm trying to brainwash you to take my side for me :D06:36
Tonio_jdong: I'm taking notes, don't mind :)06:36
LureRiddell: gpm by default does nothing, but there is gconf entry to be able to change it - not sure if some postinst updates it...06:36
jdongI'd love to have free time for kubuntu/ubuntu on my command, but sadly that's not the case06:36
jdongand murphy's law states that I'll be busy whenever an important debate like that happens06:36
Tonio_Riddell: isn't there a meeting on thursday ?06:36
Tonio_Riddell: that was discussed last week06:37
LureRiddell, Tonio_: I think we should really add gdb as dependancy to kubuntu-desktop06:38
Tonio_Lure: true06:38
Lureis there any reason why this is not done (sorry - I could not attend last meeting where I have put this to agenda :-( )06:39
=== raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #kubuntu-devel
Tonio_Lure: I don't see any, but maybe Riddell has its reasons......06:39
RiddellLure: we don't have space on the CD for developers tools is the general reason.  plus would we then need the -dbg packages?06:41
RiddellLure: I presume that the gnome apport crash handler thing installs gdb for you, we should look at doing something similar in future06:41
LureRiddell: there is now depo for dbg packages, but also w/o, stack dump is usable as binaries are not stipped06:42
LureRiddell: problem is that we have a crash dialog on crash that when Stack trace is selected throws another error :-(06:42
Lurenot very nice to user :-(06:43
Riddellany idea how much it adds to the CD?06:44
LureRiddell: gdb package is 2.3-3.7MB (depends on platform) + not so many depends06:44
LureRiddell: all depends are probably already in: libc6 libncurses5 libreadline506:44
LureRiddell: yep, all dependancies are already in06:46
LureRiddell: are CDs oversized/on the edge?06:46
RiddellLure: they're getting close and digikam was just added06:46
Riddellamd64 already has no language-support-en06:47
LureRiddell: I still think we can drop something else  (openoffice ;-)06:47
Lurejust kidding06:48
Tonio_Riddell: talking about that, what is the priority ? provide the maximum softwares or provide windows applications.......; because that takes space too06:48
LureRiddell: krita is maybe not too useful for general public though06:48
Riddellprovide the maximum software isn't a priority, we just provide an operating system06:48
Riddelland winfoss kicks arse06:48
Tonio_Riddell: but if we miss space can we think about removing the windows stuff on the cd ?06:49
Riddelllots of people need graphics apps06:49
LureRiddell: yes, but we should have usable desktop with photo mgmt and proper crash reporting ;-)06:49
RiddellTonio_: no, winfoss is great stuff06:49
LureRiddell: we could drop konversation as all users of IRC have internet connection ;-)06:49
imbrandonyea winfoss is great but no lang-en isnt 06:49
Riddellimbrandon: that's on amd64, which has no winfoss06:50
LureRiddell: true regarding winfoss, but if I am deciding on 3.7MB gdb for crash reports or 17 MB windows/scribus I know what I would choose06:50
imbrandonLure, WHA!?! no konversation ?!? 06:50
Tonio_Lure: especially when projects like the opencd already exist...06:51
imbrandoni think we need more install-mp3 type scripts 06:51
Lureimbrandon: I would also like to keep it (as it needs promotion), but fact is that IRC is not used by all users and all IRC users have internet connection - and do not depend on shipit CD only06:51
imbrandonnot all computer users have cameras either by that definaition06:52
imbrandonor music collections ... or .... we could name alot of things06:52
Lureimbrandon: true, but I would suspect digital photos are more likely than irc 06:53
Lureimbrandon: but anyway, we need to find something that we all agree can be dropped06:53
=== beligum [n=beligum@d54C49278.access.telenet.be] has joined #kubuntu-devel
RiddellI wonder what seed gdb should be added to06:54
raphinkgdb vs. exe debate?06:54
imbrandoni'm with keybuk tbh and say we make a dvd + alternate cd base install ;) but thats a whole nother conversation06:55
LureRiddell: same as kde...06:55
LureRiddell: desktop...06:55
=== raphink just wants to say that in Ichthux his choice was very fast too... the first things I removed were all the .exe and such
Tonio_raphink: hehe, yes, a bit :)06:55
imbrandonraphink, heh06:56
raphinkI needed 60MB and I didn't need 10seconds to choose where to find them06:56
imbrandonok i got to run for a while, bbiab06:56
raphinkI'm not distributing an open-source OS to encourage people to use the apps on Windows06:56
Lureimbrandon: I would drop krita (maybe replace it with simple kpaint) as first choice - when we finally replace openoffice with koffice, we get it back06:56
=== raphink is also against porting KDE to Windows anyway, but well it's FLOSS so no way to prevent it
imbrandon+1 on the office change06:56
Lureraphink: problem is that on amd64 there is no winfoss06:57
Tonio_well in my opinion winfoss is nice, but should remain "optional", in the way that "we had it if we have the space for"06:57
Tonio_Lure: yeah, that's another problem indeed06:57
Tonio_Lure: let's switch to koffice !!!!!!!!06:57
imbrandonRiddell, why do we use oo.o over koffice ?06:57
Tonio_-> keep space and promote kde apps, 2 in 106:57
insanekaneimbrandon: because it is better ?06:57
imbrandoninsanekane, hahah ok06:57
raphinkkoffice powa :)06:58
imbrandoninsanekane, that why its always the first thing to get uninstalled right ?06:58
=== raphink is for koffice, too
Tonio_insanekane: depends on the point of view.... for my needs, koffice is enough and BY FAR better integrated.....06:58
insanekaneTonio_: good for you06:58
raphinkkubuntu is considered the most KDE-based distro in a way06:58
imbrandonTonio_, exactly intergration and for the avg JOE it works great06:58
raphinkwe focus on KDE more than most distros06:58
raphinkand I think koffice just fits with that choice06:58
insanekanetheres good integration between OOo apps as well06:59
Riddellimbrandon: koffice is too buggy06:59
Tonio_imbrandon: true that, people that need more feature can install oo.o06:59
imbrandonTonio_, exactly06:59
Tonio_Riddell: hum, that's really better with latest versions06:59
raphinkprograms get debugged when they're used in FLOSS06:59
insanekaneTonio_: being able to type text and render it on screen is a big feature of OOo06:59
imbrandonRiddell, it isnt any more buggy than oo.o , and crashes ALOT less06:59
raphinkRiddell: weren't systemsettings and adept too buggy when we added them?06:59
Tonio_imbrandon: the problem is communicating with msoffice06:59
raphinkand yet they are far more important parts of the system than office07:00
Tonio_imbrandon: switching will probably be possible when opendoc plugins for mso are available07:00
imbrandonraphink, +107:00
raphinkwe all know that systemseting is what it is today _because_ it was integrated07:00
raphinkand the same for adept07:00
raphinkI would like to give its chance to koffice today07:00
raphinkit deservesit07:00
Tonio_okay let's remove winfloss, replace oo.o, everything after beta, and let mdz have an heart attack :)07:00
=== imbrandon wispers "edgy"
Tonio_but seriously, all of this can be discussed for edgy+107:01
=== imbrandon wispers "edgy" one more time then slips out the door
imbrandonyea i think we need to give koffice a serouis look for edgy+107:01
raphinkwhen is koffice 2 to be released?07:01
Riddellafter kde 407:01
Tonio_insanekane: talking about oo.o integration, did you notice the bug with fonts on oo.o menus on kde ?07:02
Tonio_they look ugly07:02
beligumHi all, I'm looking for someone who wants to take over the ScreenKast packaging...07:03
Tonio_fuzzy, for a reason I can't explain07:03
insanekaneTonio_: those issues are of a very low priority07:03
insanekaneTonio_: most users in the world cannot use Koffice because of the lack of support for their language07:04
LureTonio_: ugly as hell07:04
Tonio_insanekane: for me (since I focus on polishing), they are important :)07:04
=== [niceday] [n=daniel@] has joined #kubuntu-devel
Goldenear_I'm pretty sad to see that nothing has been done for firefox kde intergration in edgy :(07:04
Goldenear_firefox still have the ugly gtk file dialog :(07:04
LureGoldenear_: me to, but this is one more reason to reconsider konqueror07:05
imbrandonGoldenear_, mostly becouse firefox isnt stable enough even on gnome atm , it still crashing all the time 07:05
Tonio_Goldenear_: true that, because the patch to get kde dialog is an evil hack07:05
raphinkLure: reconsider konqueror?07:05
raphinkkonqueror is great07:05
Riddellhi [niceday]  07:05
Goldenear_I mostly use konqueror... but many sited doesn't work in konq :(07:05
Riddellimbrandon: did you add the kubuntu meeting to fridge?07:05
raphinkI can't do a tenth of what I do with konqueror with firefox07:05
Goldenear_so firefox is a must07:05
Tonio_beligum: that's on my plans but for "after edgy is out"07:05
Lureraphink: I have still some issues to use it at work, but it seems that I will have to fix these intranet apps ;-)07:06
[niceday] Riddell: hi. i'm just taking a tour through some channels (adding them to my list)07:06
imbrandonRiddell, pretty sure, lemme make sure , one sec07:06
raphinkGoldenear_: so let's fix konqueror07:06
raphinkor rather, adapt it07:06
Goldenear_ <Tonio_> Goldenear_: true that, because the patch to get kde dialog is an evil hack <-- is there a better solution ? (existing)07:06
Lureraphink: other reason is that I am used to firefox and some of extentions...07:06
raphinkcause konqueror is about the only browser to really respect the standards07:06
Tonio_Goldenear_: using firefox "because it display bad coded websites" is encouraging what made IE that popular.......07:07
Tonio_Goldenear_: that's not a solution07:07
raphinkyes Tonio_07:07
raphinktotally agreed07:07
Goldenear_also I would like to see konqueror (or a kthml based broswer) for windows...07:07
beligumTonio_: allright, thx. My time runs out to spend a lot of time on it07:07
Tonio_the more konqueror there are, the more websites will be corrected07:07
Tonio_same with opera07:07
Goldenear_this way we could have a multiplateform browser ligther than firefox07:07
LureTonio_: exactly - this is why I plan to try to switch again 07:07
raphinkI am for adding a firefox spoofing id on konqueror, that says as commentary "I'm just pretending to use Firefox because your website is a mess"07:07
raphinkso people will get it in their stat07:08
Goldenear_<Tonio_> the more konqueror there are, the more websites will be corrected <- most problem I have are not from websites but from konq... eg ajax support07:08
raphinkso we can watch these websites using the spoofing (works most of the time) while still lettting people know that they should care about standards07:08
Tonio_Goldenear_: ajax support issues are due to websites07:08
raphinkGoldenear_: konqueror was one of the first browsers to have good ajax support07:09
Tonio_Goldenear_: on vbulletin, which has good code, ajax works nicelly, even with konqueror07:09
raphinkactually the first one to pass the ajax test properly iirc07:09
raphinkjust because people talk SMS all the time, we aren't going to adapt our doc and make itt horrible07:09
raphinkand all the same for code imo07:10
imbrandonRiddell, ugh i did but i forgot to tick the "published" box, its published now07:10
raphinkwe aren't going to lower our standards because people don't mind about theirs07:10
Tonio_Goldenear_: what do we want ? a kde based operating system or a kde based with gnome apps, like suse or mandriva ?07:10
Tonio_Goldenear_: no need to do something that already exists07:10
raphinkTonio_: I've made my choice :)07:10
Goldenear_I have a more pragmatic approch to the problem... many websites are not konqueror compatible... I need to use them now and I don't thing their webmasters are ready to fix them...07:10
raphinkthe whole point about KDE is integration07:10
Tonio_that's the reason I think we should on using kde apps only07:10
Goldenear_so the only solution is at the moment to use firefox...07:11
raphinkno Goldenear_ I do not agree07:11
Goldenear_(And I don't even talk about ie only compatible sites)07:11
Tonio_Goldenear_: and if firefox fails on certain websites ? (that happens)07:11
Tonio_and if mozilla decided to respect the standards, then there would be no issues07:11
Tonio_since the websites would be made compatible07:11
Tonio_if firefox continues to go out of the standards, like IE is, I would shit on it the same way I shit on IE07:12
Goldenear_I didn't find a site not working with firefox since a pretty long time...07:12
Tonio_Goldenear_: why ?07:12
Tonio_because the websites have been made compatible with it07:12
Tonio_because it is widely used07:12
Tonio_so there are 2 solutions :07:12
Tonio_- people are using konqueror and the same thing happens07:13
raphinkit's because more and more people use FF07:13
=== toma [n=toma@84-53-90-221.wxdsl.nl] has joined #kubuntu-devel
raphinkthat websites are compatible07:13
raphinkand it's because more and more people use open document 07:13
Tonio_- mozilla is making a good gecko that respects the standards, and that'll correct the issues for ALL BROWSERS in the world07:13
raphinkthat the next version of MS Office will understand it07:13
raphinknot the other way round07:13
Goldenear_95% of people are using Windows... Konqueror doesn't work on windows...07:13
RiddellGoldenear_: yet...07:14
raphinkGoldenear_: yet07:14
Goldenear_that's the point :D07:14
Tonio_Goldenear_: yet07:14
raphinkkonqueror is being ported on windows07:14
Riddell** for the brave   deb http://kubuntu.org/packages/kde-355/ edgy main07:14
Tonio_Goldenear_: using firefox on kde is a temporary solution, but the consequences will be a dirty web at the end07:14
Goldenear_But I want to use the sites now !!!07:14
Tonio_and konqueror will have even more compatibility issues07:14
imbrandonRiddell, whoo hoo , upgrading now07:15
Tonio_Goldenear_: how did the first firefox users do ? they were boycotting the crappy websites07:15
Tonio_Goldenear_: that's the only way to get a clean web07:15
Riddellimbrandon: note I havn't tested them yet myself 07:15
imbrandonhehe ok07:15
Tonio_Goldenear_: your point is the same than people saying "I'll use linux when drivers are available"07:16
Tonio_reasonnable opinion, but if everyone says this, we will NEVER get the drivers :)07:16
raphinkopen-source exists because people have made the choice to loose technical options to gain freedom07:17
Tonio_the first people creating the change have to accept compromise for the future07:17
raphinkif you choose technical stuff over freedom07:17
raphinkyou'll lose your freedom07:17
raphinkand you'll never get more07:17
Goldenear_Tonio_: let me ask you a question: Why companies such as SNCF, Grosbill, or Le mistere des finances would make their website konqueror compatible ?07:17
mhbit seems today is discussion day here :o) 07:17
raphinkGoldenear_: companies need money07:17
raphinkkonqueror is a great navigator07:17
Tonio_Goldenear_: because it is used by the masse07:17
raphinkeven safari is based on KHTML07:17
mhbRiddell: I'll set up a virtual Edgy machine and test the packages, after all, I'm in Kubuntu Testers now :o)07:18
raphinkif konqueror begins to be used by many07:18
raphinkthey will have to adapt07:18
Riddellmhb: ah hah, yes :)07:18
Tonio_Goldenear_: when grosbill doesn't sell anymore because all konqueror users are going to another website, they'll change it07:18
Goldenear_of core konq is great... that's why I mostly use it !07:18
Goldenear_But I can't reserve a train ticket of pay my taxes with it !07:18
Tonio_Goldenear_: you know what I'm doing ?07:18
Tonio_I'm sending an email to the webmaster saying the code sucks, and I'm phoning to get the bill07:19
Tonio_when the guy will receive 500 mails a week, maybe the code would get cleaned a bit07:19
Goldenear_<Tonio_> Goldenear_: when grosbill doesn't sell anymore because all konqueror users are going to another website, they'll change it <-- all konqueror users ? you mean 0,1 % of their customers ? ;)07:19
Goldenear_please, be more realistic07:19
Tonio_that's what happened with firefox at the begening07:19
Tonio_actually, the issue for me is with mozilla07:20
Goldenear_but firefox is working on linux ...07:20
Goldenear_AND WINDOWS !!!!07:20
Tonio_if mozilla decides to go back to the standards, then the websites will not have another choice than beeing standard compatible07:20
Goldenear_the OS used by 95% of people!07:20
Goldenear_that makes the difference07:20
marseillaiTonio_: you've package kxmame it's so great but it doesn't depend on xmame .......07:21
Tonio_Goldenear_: and konqueror soon will07:21
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Tonio_marseillai: bah.......; it does no ?07:21
Goldenear_Tonio_: you mean konqueror will be a native Windows app ?07:21
Tonio_Goldenear_: yes07:21
Tonio_as koffice, and as all kde07:21
marseillaiTonio_: j'ai install kxmame, il me demande aucune dpendance, se lance et me dis ; t'as pas xmame!07:21
Tonio_marseillai: je regarde07:22
raphinkGoldenear_: qt4 is ported on windows, nativelly07:22
Goldenear_but konqueror is kde dependent07:22
marseillainot all kde will be port mais a big part of it will 07:22
raphinkGoldenear_: how so?07:22
Goldenear_many people won't use it under windows if they also need to install kde07:22
raphinkGoldenear_: many GNOME users use konqueror only07:22
Tonio_marseillai: Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 5), kdelibs-dev, cdbs, docbook2x, libxine-dev, xmame-common07:23
marseillaiGoldenear_: every kde library wich not depend too much on unix system will be port.07:23
Tonio_tricky it is not added as a dep...... marseillai I'm changing this07:23
imbrandonGoldenear_, not really have a look at this http://www.imbrandon.com/misc/kde4-osx.png07:23
marseillaiTonio_: jdis pas le contraire hein. jdis juste que ca ne marche pas07:23
Tonio_marseillai: I'm fixing this07:23
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Goldenear_imbrandon: but konqueror won't run on OSX with (at least some part of) kde installed on it :/07:25
imbrandonkdelibs, big deal, vb6 apps wont run on windows without vb6 libs either , and point ?07:25
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Goldenear_I think there should 3 broswers sharing the same basis (mostly khtml): Konqueror on Linux, Safari on os X and a new one on Windows...07:26
raphinkSafari is more or less a port of Konqueror Goldenear_07:27
Goldenear_This is the only way I see to have a real alternative to ie and ff07:27
LureRiddell: installing kde355 now...07:27
raphinkalthough they have dirty patches in it ;)07:27
Goldenear_<raphink> Safari is more or less a port of Konqueror Goldenear_ <-- I know that, but the SNCF website is working on Safari ;)07:27
Tonio_Goldenear_: because osx users are using safari, there is a chance that websites get compatible in the future07:28
Tonio_that's the point07:28
Riddellthere's a lot of differences between KHTML and safari07:28
raphinklots of patches07:28
raphinkthat won't get in KDE 07:28
Tonio_konqueror, compared to one year ago, as fair less compatibility issues07:28
Riddellhopefully kde 4 will use the port of safari webkit to qt07:28
Goldenear_indeed.... and a sync between the two would be nice :)07:28
mhbis there a grub configuration tool for KDE?07:29
imbrandonRiddell, is there ppc packages there ?07:30
imbrandon( for 355 )07:30
mhbI'd like that in Kubuntu because I edit menu.lst almost every time I install K.07:30
Riddellimbrandon: no07:30
imbrandonahh ok, no wonder i was having issues07:31
Riddellmhb: I'd like one too, but nobody has stepped up to do one.  I dont think it would be very hard to make a guidance tool for it07:31
=== abattoir is tempted to raise his hand :P
Riddellabattoir: you're already doing smart!07:32
=== mhb too
Riddellmhb: do it!07:32
abattoirRiddell: well, i could do this too, edgy+1 target?07:32
Goldenear_<Riddell> hopefully kde 4 will use the port of safari webkit to qt <-- so the only missing thing will be a win32 webkit base browser :)07:32
abattoiror maybe mhb and me could work on it together ;)07:32
Tonio_rahhhhhhhhhhhh ! /usr/include/linux/joystick.h:131: error: '__s64' does not name a type07:32
Tonio_the error is back.........07:32
Riddellabattoir: sure, just be careful not to work on too much stuff at once07:33
abattoirRiddell: ok, ok :P07:33
RiddellTonio_: it never went away07:33
RiddellGoldenear_: konqueror on win32 :)07:33
mhbI think edgy+1 target is possible07:34
Tonio_Riddell: since kxmame compiled one day, I can tell you it had went away :)07:34
Tonio_Riddell: ftbfs now, but working a moment ago07:34
mhbabattoir: how's smart doing, btw?07:34
abattoirmhb: i'm working on a Qt UI for it07:35
goldenearRiddell: I mean a browser not needing kde :)07:35
LureRiddell: no errors with upgrade to kde355, now rebooting to see the difference... ;-)07:38
=== Riddell waits nervously for Lure to return
HawkwindIs 3.5.5 for Edgy or Dapper ?07:43
abattoirHawkwind: edgy07:44
Hawkwindabattoir: Wait!  You're sleep typing :P07:44
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=== Lure is running kde355
RiddellLure: and?  anarchy?  world peace?07:45
LureRiddell: session manager started my apps in wrong desktops, and it looks like I cannot move them between desktops (drag&drop)07:45
Riddelluh oh07:45
LureRiddell: even switching desktop does not work from panel ;-(07:46
=== goldenear is trying to install kde4
Riddellso kwin go foobar07:46
LureRiddell: will try new profile (my is old from hoary times with some customization07:46
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LureRiddell: it switches desktops if I click the app in taskbar, just the Desktop Pager seems to be broken07:47
Riddellso control-F2 is broken?07:49
LureRiddell: kdesu also does not work - "Conversation with su failed."07:49
Luremy desktop is shadded 07:49
Riddell"to check: sudo, printing, kicker height, scroll wheel, kwallet, desktop changing"07:49
Lurelike if I would select logout, just without the logout dialog... ;-)07:50
LureRiddell: big todo... :-(07:50
LureRiddell: it is really funny - whole screen is shadded (I can barely read), just my mouse cursor is shinny white ;-)07:51
LureRiddell: actually it is a bit lighter than logout shade - just tried it...07:51
LureRiddell: maybe it is caused by Start New Session I used couple of seconds before...07:52
Lureit looks like I will use Dapper tommorow at work ;-)07:52
LureRiddell: "kdesu (kdelibs): ERROR: su has exited while waiting for pwd." on console when running kdesu07:53
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=== Lure logout/login to get rid of this shade
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=== Lure is back to edgy shine ;-)
Riddellso hmm, a few bugs then I guess07:56
nixternalwoohoo, my display config is back!! thank you! ;)07:57
nixternalRiddell: about the gwenview translation stuff, is there a doc i can read to show me how to create the .pot file the correct way? an easy way maybe? I am new to creating package translations07:58
Riddellnixternal: there is a gwenview-i18n tar that needs to be packaged07:59
nixternalroger that08:00
=== nixternal finds it
nixternalgot it08:01
LureRiddell: kontact/kmail/karm/akregator looks ok08:03
nixternalok..how do i go about packaging it?  do i add it to the gwenview package, or is it seperate?08:03
RiddellLure: they havn't been packaged yet08:03
LureRiddell: will have to run now, but will keep you posted if I notice something else08:03
RiddellLure: thanks08:04
LureRiddell: ok, this is the reason they work ;-)08:04
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HawkwindIs webmin not available for Kubuntu anywhere ?08:47
jdongwebmin is mysteriously MIA for a while now08:50
=== jdong never bothered to ask/investigate
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marseillai_Sime: tonio told me that you are the "master" for device gestion in kubuntu. So i ask you if it is possible to select if we want to see or not unmount device on desktop or in "support de stockage" kicker applet ?09:02
_Simemarseillai: Showing Unmounted is no longer supported for the simple reason that the user doesn't need to know about details like mounting/unmounting. It should work automatically.09:04
marseillai_Sime: yes of course09:04
jdong_Sime: then please change the string "Do Nothing" to something more accurate....09:04
_Simethat's the idea09:04
_Simejdong: like what?09:04
jdongDo Nothing gives me the impression it's safe to yank out the drive09:04
jdong_Sime: well, you don't want to use mount.... hmm....09:04
jdongTonio_ and I were talking about this earlier09:05
jdongat that time, I liked the term Mount09:05
jdongeven "Don't open in new window" is better09:05
_SimeI know. That problem with the Close button is fixed btw.09:05
jdongthx for that bugfix09:05
marseillaibut i can understand the fact that you disable it by default! but you should leave the option for those who want see it! for example when my usb hard drive crash i now need to mount it manually or in /media. and worse than it now i need to use command line to mount nfs instead of simply doing mount on kicker applet with dapper ....09:06
jdong_Sime: is there some way to show an icon for unmounted usb sticks?09:06
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jdong_Sime: sometimes I'd unmount but realize I still need to do something09:06
jdong_Sime: or in the case of my 3 partition USB HD, I can't yank out all 3 without linux panicking (root on USB)09:07
_Simemarseillai: kicker applet for unmounted NFS,  _should_ be the same as before.09:07
marseillaiit isn't _Sime 09:07
marseillaiand it isn't for usb key too ....09:07
marseillaiand option to show unmount device have disappear09:07
_Simejdong: short answer no. How do you "accidently" unmount it?09:09
_Simemarseillai: usb keys are either inserted and ready, or removed//ready to be removed. That is model that we are trying to achieve.09:10
jdong_Sime: I unmount it with the intent to remove it, but later decided not to remove it, but continue using it09:10
_Simemarseillai: if you want to remount you usb key, remove it and insert it. That seems simple and logical.09:10
jdong_Sime: my usb slots are hard to reach09:10
jdongand I'd rather not go for re-inserting09:10
jdongand for my external, I prefer to keep the fat32 partitions unmounted except when needed09:11
jdongI've lost a lot of data before due to linux's flaky vfat09:11
_Simeexternal what exactly?09:11
jdongusb hd09:11
jdongit has 3 partitions09:11
jdong1 ntfs, 1 fat32 , 1 linux root09:11
jdongI boot off of it for linux on one of my systems09:11
_Simejdong: but if you say "Safely remove" in KDE, can you then actually safely remove you USB drive?09:12
jdong_Sime: not technically. I can safely remove that partition if I can perform surgery on 7200rpm platters :)09:12
_Simejdong: I mean the whole drive?09:13
jdongno, linux is mounted on that drive09:13
jdongif I remove it, linux will crash09:13
jdongkubuntu/hal/ubuntu treats partitions 1 and 2 as usb removable devices, 3 as a linux system device09:14
_Simejdong: you've kind of a got an extreme case there. :-/09:15
jdongI know I do09:16
mhbhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/ is a bit incomplete for Kubuntu09:16
_Simejdong: I'm not sure how that can be beter handled..... a toughie.09:16
jdongbut it's one use case that at least somewhere there needs to be the mount/unmount notion.....09:16
jdongmaybe in the panel applet or something09:16
jdongor keep the unmounted device icons around09:16
_SimeI'll have to have a good think about that one. I'm afraid that it doesn't really fit the model very well. Maybe I can find some sort of compromise / middleground.09:18
_Simejdong: have you got any easier bugs? 8-)09:20
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Tonio_Riddell: how do you workarround the joystick.h error in kdebase ?09:27
Tonio_Riddell: I can't seem to find a solution for the kxmame package09:27
Tonio_Riddell: you should theorically get the same issue in kcontrol, unless there is a fix in the code.....09:27
Tonio__Sime: I have an easier one :)09:28
Tonio__Sime: blank folder when browsing a cd in konq :)09:28
Tonio__Sime: still waiting :)09:28
tvoTonio_: maybe s/__s64/long long/ as a fix?  (assuming the devs want signed 64 bit integer)09:28
Tonio_and yes, jdong has very complicated issues, I agree :)09:28
_SimeTonio_: cd = audio cd or CDROM?09:29
RiddellTonio_: I just don't compile it09:29
Tonio_Riddell: ah........ hehe :)09:29
Tonio_tvo: that's an idea, I'll investigate.09:29
Tonio_Riddell: heh, that's not possible in my case, but I'll search ;)09:30
Tonio__Sime: audiocd09:30
Tonio__Sime: when I insert an audio cd and wanna browse it with konq, I just get an empty folder, when audiocd:/ protocol works09:30
_SimeTonio_: browsing in the FS with konq?09:30
Tonio__Sime: yes, browsing /media/cdrom009:31
_SimeTonio_: step by step, explain?09:31
Tonio__Sime: I just insert an audio cd, then get the screen to choose action, and I choose "open with konqueror"09:31
Tonio_that opens /media/cdrom0, but the folder is empty09:31
_Simeok, gotcha09:31
Tonio_same if I browse with the system applet, of course :)09:31
Tonio_tvo, Riddell: found a topic with a kde dev suggesting to build without -ansi09:33
Tonio_seems to work, but I need to test the app deeply09:33
tvoah probably __s64 is some sort of gcc extension then09:35
Tonio_tvo: probably....09:36
Tonio_Riddell: shouldn't we ping benC concerning this issue ?09:36
Tonio_hum, yes building without -ansi works perfectly...... I'm just wondering the potential consequences.....09:37
_SimeTonio_: ok, I've just those things up on the wiki (=TODO list).09:37
Tonio__Sime: you already had that bug no ?09:38
Tonio__Sime: I already reported to you a few weeks ago09:38
_SimeTonio_: yes, but I forget things a lot.09:38
Tonio__Sime: hehe :)09:38
_Simeit's not that funny actually :-|09:41
_Simejust kidding. :) I do forget a lot though... out of sight, out of mind with me09:41
jdongTonio_ / _Sime: hehe, funny :)09:42
jdongI'll think of some easier bugs for you09:42
_Simehas anyone had any luck with pluging in digital cameras on dapper?09:44
_SimeI tried yesterday with a couple and it just did not work properly.09:45
Hawkwind_Sime: I plug mine in all the time.  However, I don't use KDE so it doesn't automount which is how I like it actually09:45
jdong_Sime: is it a libgphoto camera or USB mass storage camera?09:46
jdongthat makes a big difference09:46
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jdongdapper's libgphoto is a bit antiquated....09:46
jdongI've wanted to backport, but didn't dare to :)09:46
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marseillai<_Sime> marseillai: usb keys are either inserted and ready, or removed//ready to be removed. That is model that we are trying to achieve. ------->> yes but some computer don't have front usb port so it can be hard to unplug/plug usb devices. and more than that i don't see the problem that can be cause by enable the possibility to show that if it's not the default setting ?09:49
marseillaisorry for the delay09:49
RiddellTonio_: I did submit a bug09:56
RiddellTonio_: he says it's KDE's fault (and KDE says it's linux's fault)09:57
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Tonio_Riddell: well everyone on the web says it is kernel-header issue10:00
Tonio_Riddell: could be interesting to build kde without -ansi, since it helps building correctly.... I just wonder the consequences of this.....10:00
_Simejdong: libgphoto I think. I has working the past using KDE's camera:/10:02
jdongmy camera was quite buggy with dapper's libgphoto10:02
jdongsvn builds helped :D10:02
_Simejdong: is libgphoto updated in edgy?10:03
jdong_Sime: considerably, yes10:04
jdongI've not used my camera's usb cable in a while though10:04
jdong(sd card reader now works in edgy. yay)10:05
marseillai_Sime: i'm wondering. is it due to your patch on kio media:/ that several option has disappear from this configuration windows : ftp://marseillai.homelinux.org/kicker1.png for "support de stockage" kicker applets ?10:18
Tonio__Sime: I was wondering concerning the "icons to show on the desktop", did you touch this to only give the possibility to check "mounted devices" ?10:22
Tonio__Sime: half of the icons have dissapered10:22
_SimeTonio_: yes, and I would have removed the string "mounted" from the titles if the freeze wasn't no.10:23
Tonio__Sime: see this : http://tonio.homelinux.org/tmp/capture13.png10:24
Tonio__Sime: that can cause a few issues concerning usability10:24
Tonio_imagin I create an nfs mount point10:25
Tonio__Sime: Then I want to see it unmounted, so that I can double click on it and it mounts automatically10:25
Tonio__Sime: how to do this if I can't display this ?10:25
Tonio__Sime: shouldn't we configure this in kde, but let the possibility for the user to display it if he wants ?10:26
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_SimeTonio_: you should be able to mount it in /media using a right-mouse menu. But yeah, I need to have a closer look at that w.r.t. nfs and paritions.10:26
Tonio__Sime: I personnally don't use this, I browse nfs with kios10:26
_SimeTonio_: I might have removed too much..10:27
Tonio__Sime: how to mount it in /media ?10:27
Tonio_I don't see the point10:27
Tonio_another solution is to use nfs:/ ioslave10:27
Tonio__Sime: note that I agree to remove "unmounted floppy, cdrom dvd" etc......10:30
Tonio_I just think that partitions and network shares should appear :)10:30
_Simeright click on the mount point in /media.10:31
Tonio__Sime: if you create a NFS mountpoint on kde desktop, via right click, create new, blabla, will it appear in /media ?10:33
_SimeTonio_: don't know, I don't think I've ever done that. :)10:33
Tonio__Sime: hehe, that's why :)10:34
Tonio_those don't appear in /media :)10:34
Tonio__Sime: that's why we should remove those options in kdesktop config concerning NFS and partitions10:34
Tonio__Sime: another option is to remove the possibility to create a NFS peripherical10:45
Tonio__Sime: kio smb doesn the trick10:45
Tonio_kio nfs, sorry10:45
Tonio__Sime: I must say that if I had to vote, I would vote to remote the possibility to create this too....10:50
Tonio_that's even more simple10:50
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goldenearI can't install the kde 4 package in edgy... some packages are reported to be corrupted (wrong size)...11:51
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goldenearkde4libs-data_3.80.1-0ubuntu1_all.deb and kdepim libs are reported to have wrong size by apt-get install :(11:54
goldenearRiddell: do you manage the deb http://kubuntu.org/packages/kde4-3.80.1/ . repository ?11:54
Ingmar^was there any recent change to the xv extension that would cause me to have dropped frames in all video players I installed (vlc, kaffeine & mplayer ) ??12:02
Ingmar^or am I facing a config issue12:02

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