[12:21] <Q-FUNK> what nick does Dennis Kaarsmaker use on IRC?
[12:21] <tseng> Seveas
[12:21] <tseng> wait
[12:21] <tseng> yes.
[12:21] <Seveas> correct 
[12:21] <tseng> there he is.
[12:22] <Seveas> Q-FUNK, it's Kaarsemaker by the way :
[12:23] <Q-FUNK> oh, sorry :)
[12:24] <Q-FUNK> Seveas: I just wanted to know what's going on with usplash-theme-ubuntu
[12:24] <Seveas> not much atm
[12:24] <Seveas> I'm not on the art team, so can't tell
[12:25] <Q-FUNK> Bug #61126
[12:25] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 61126 in usplash-theme-ubuntu "fails to set the alternative to replace the testcard" [Undecided,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61126
[12:25] <Seveas> that's solved in usplash -31
[12:25] <Q-FUNK> ah
[12:26] <Q-FUNK> Seveas: weren't you on Atari before, btw?
[12:26] <Seveas> no
[12:43] <Q-FUNK> Seveas: ok, I indeed get something that spalshes.  no boot messages at all, though.
[12:43] <Seveas> Q-FUNK, that's expected behaviour
[12:43] <Q-FUNK> then if i remove the quiet boot option, I get messages, but the message box is over where the progress bar is, so they both try to paint over each other
[12:43] <Q-FUNK> it wasn't the behavior until usplash 0.3 :)
[12:45] <Seveas> that's not normal -- they should be confined to their own space. COuld you perhaps make a photo of it?
[12:45] <Q-FUNK> i wished, but no digi cam here
[12:46] <Q-FUNK> however, I got a call from one user today thta he sees the same thing
[12:46] <Q-FUNK> it's only now that i realized what he was describing
[12:46] <Q-FUNK> his host runs in 1024x768,  while mine runs in 800x600
[12:47] <Q-FUNK> the message box is off-center and partialy overlaps the progress bar
[12:49] <Seveas> ah
[12:49] <Seveas> that's my bad - but I won't fix it
[12:49] <Seveas> the theme will change drastically
[12:51] <Q-FUNK> how so?
[12:52] <Q-FUNK> isn't it just  a metter of changing the positioning of the box in the .h file that defines the theme settings?
[12:53] <jdong> bddebian: would you like to help me with acidrip again?
[12:53] <jdong> I'll also extend this offer to any free MOTU :D
[12:53] <sivang> sladen: what just happend ? :-)
[12:53] <sivang> sladen: suddenly DNS was lost
[01:12] <Seveas> Q-FUNK, .c file actually, but yes
[01:12] <Seveas> I don't want to make a pointless upload though
[01:14] <Q-FUNK> Seveas: why?  the theme is expected to change again soon?
 the theme will change drastically
[01:14] <Seveas> I just said that ;)
[01:14] <Seveas> the current theme is a 3-minute rushjob
[01:15] <Q-FUNK> Seveas: ambiguous sentence. :)  it could have meant thta fixing the C file would have wreaked havoc :)
[01:15] <Seveas> heh, ok
[01:22] <imbrandon> moins all
[01:27] <jdong> imbrandon: can I borrow your upload rights for a sec :)
[01:28] <jdong> imbrandon: I've already made a debdiff for your convenience....
[01:28] <jdong> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/acidrip/+bug/63582
[01:28] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 63582 in acidrip "Crop detection fails" [Undecided,Confirmed] 
[01:30] <imbrandon> jdong, sure i'll take a look, one sec
[01:34] <imbrandon> jdong, i have no issue with the upload but i'm gonna do it a tad diffrent
[01:34] <imbrandon> instead of patching the source directly i'm gonna make it a dpatch ( as thats what the package uses already )
[01:35] <imbrandon> jdong, ^^
[01:49] <jdong> imbrandon: sure, that sounds good
[01:49] <jdong> imbrandon: I had bddebian do another one-liner patch earlier, and he just patched the source
[01:49] <jdong> so I was going by his example :D
[01:52] <imbrandon> hehe jdong no worries, depends on the package, if there is a patch system in place the prefered method is to use it rather than patching the source
[01:52] <jdong> imbrandon: one of these days I'll take the time to read up on dpatch....
[01:52] <imbrandon> so the one bddebian did earlier might have been correct
[01:52] <imbrandon> for that package
[01:53] <jdong> meh, I doubt a new upstream release of acidrip is coming anytime soon anyway
[01:53] <jdong> :)
[01:54] <imbrandon> well it makes it easy to send upstearm too, and if it will be a while untill the new version all the better as the longer it is the more likely you'll forget the changes and a patch is easy to isolate ;)
[01:54] <imbrandon> anyhow no worries, i already did it, just was letting ya know ;)
[01:58] <cahuez> hiya there; looking for re-config the xorg server..
[01:59] <imbrandon> cahuez, "sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg" but #ubuntu is for support
[02:01] <NthDegree> or #kubuntu or #xubuntu ;)
[02:01] <cahuez> you mean this is the right place for troubleshooting..? :)
[02:01] <imbrandon> ;)
[02:02] <NthDegree> cahuez: this is NOT the right place for troubleshooting
[02:02] <imbrandon> no this is the right place for package management of the universe repo
[02:02] <NthDegree> #ubuntu, #kubuntu and #xubuntu are for troubleshooting cahuez
[02:02] <cahuez> i see, let me move ahead there, thanks nth..
[02:03] <NthDegree> ;-)
[02:15] <mat> could anyone have a look at https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/scite/+bug/61033 ? if a newer scite is not put in edgy (or a patch added) tabs won't work at all in it...
[02:15] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 61033 in scite "Tabs don't function properly under edgy" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] 
[02:44] <imbrandon> ok jdong uploaded
[02:48] <Viper550> I have a nice Usplash theme that I think would make good universe material
[02:49] <Viper550> (for edgy)
[02:51] <imbrandon> Viper550, we are in universe freeze atm , you are more than welcome to file  UFe though
[02:51] <imbrandon> url is in the topic
[02:51] <imbrandon> bbiab
[02:52] <Viper550> I meant for after the freez
[02:52] <ajmitch> the freeze lasts until release
[02:52] <imbrandon> ahh ok , sure, get it all ready and remind us about decembe then
[02:52] <Viper550> uh oh...
[02:52] <imbrandon> december*
[02:52] <ajmitch> at which point the distro is properly frozen
[02:52] <ajmitch> and only critical things get put into updates
[02:53] <imbrandon> heya ajmitch
[02:53] <ajmitch> hi
[02:53] <imbrandon> foooooooood
[02:54] <Viper550> if you are wondering, it's this: http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=46645 (I ported Dapper's usplash theme to Edgy)
[03:55] <Toadstool> good evening
[03:57] <Fujitsu> Hey Toadstool.
[03:57] <Toadstool> hey Fujitsu
[04:00] <bddebian> Heya Toadstool, Fujitsu
[04:00] <imbrandon> heya bddebian and Toadstool
[04:00] <bddebian> Fujitsu: Fixed all Universe bugs yet? :)
[04:00] <bddebian> Heya imbrandon
[04:02] <Toadstool> hey imbrandon, bddebian
[04:06] <bddebian> Doh
[04:06] <Toadstool> :)
[04:08] <Fujitsu> bddebian, not quite :P
[04:10] <Toadstool> I need to squash some bugs to relax or I am going to throw my laptop through the window
[04:10] <bddebian> Squashing bugs is relaxing?  Since when? :)
[04:10] <Toadstool> hehe
[04:38] <zakame> hi all
[04:38] <Fujitsu> Hi zakame.
[04:40] <bddebian> Heya zakame
[04:40] <Toadstool> hey zakame
[04:42] <minghua> what is the current procedure for syncing a new version from debian now (no upstream change)?
[04:43] <minghua> I am talking about bug #63548
[04:43] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 63548 in bandwidthd "Please update to the latest version from Debian Unstable - Edgys -6 version is miserably broken." [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63548
[04:43] <bddebian> minghua: Unless something has changed you need to request a UVF exception on Launchpad with the appropriate details
[04:44] <minghua> bddebian: even there is no upstream changes (only a -6 to -9 Debian version bump)
[04:44] <minghua> ?
[04:44] <Fujitsu> minghua, just a normal sync request.
[04:44] <bddebian> Oh, if it's just a release bump no, just a sync request, sorry
[04:45] <minghua> okay, cool, I'll do that then, thanks bddebian and Fujitsu
[04:45] <minghua> slomo subscribed ubuntu-universe-sponsors which completely confused me
[04:54] <minghua> eww, upstream tarball with autom4te.cache/ directory...
[04:56] <Fujitsu> Urgh, minghua. Please keep this channel friendly. That's just not good.
[04:56] <bddebian> heh
[04:56] <bddebian> Fujitsu: Finish up that azureus yet? ;-P
[04:56] <Fujitsu> You little.
[04:56] <bddebian> Little?  heh, I wish, I'm a fat old bastard :'-(
[04:57] <bddebian> :-)
[04:57] <Fujitsu> We've got 1.5 months to nominate somebody to do Azureus next cycle...
[04:57] <Fujitsu> Hrm...
[04:58] <bddebian> hehe
[04:59] <minghua> Fujitsu: You are serious?  I apologize if I offended anyone.  But which part is not friendly?
[04:59] <Fujitsu> Back here!
[04:59] <Fujitsu> minghua, that bit about autom4te.cache being in the upstream tarball :P
[04:59] <Fujitsu> That's just bad bad bad :P
[04:59] <Fujitsu> Not serious, no.
[05:00] <minghua> Fujitsu: oh I see.  so it's okay for me to report a bug about that autom4te.cache in upstream tarball (it's a cvs snapshot), isn't it?
[05:00] <minghua> I am just confused :-)
[05:01] <minghua> you see, English is not my first language
[05:01] <Fujitsu> I don't think it should be there, no. That's not ideal.
[05:01] <Fujitsu> minghua, aha, that'd do it.
[05:03] <Toadstool> Fujitsu: I run too fast :)
[05:04] <bddebian> Heya Hobbsee
[05:04] <Toadstool> everybody hide ! :)
[05:05] <Hobbsee> hey bddebian
[05:05] <Hobbsee> indeed!
[05:05] <Toadstool> hi Hobbsee
[05:06] <Hobbsee> hey Toadstool
[05:06] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee!!
[05:06] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu!
[05:06] <imbrandon> whoop the AU crew is wakin up
[05:07] <imbrandon> ;)
[05:07] <Hobbsee> it's 1pm :P
[05:08] <Hobbsee> my exam timetable is truly evil
[05:08] <Toadstool> haha
[05:08] <Hobbsee> glad i didnt apply for sponsorship, looking at this
[05:08] <Hobbsee> MATH136 - Mathematics IB  	Wednesday 15 November  	13:50  	3 hrs	
[05:08] <Hobbsee> ELEC166 - Introduction to Electronic Systems 	Thursday 16 November 	13:50 	3 hrs	
[05:08] <Hobbsee> COMP165 - Fundamentals of Computer Science (Advanced) 	Tuesday 21 November 	09:20 	3 hrs	
[05:08] <Hobbsee> PHYS143 - Physics IB 	Tuesday 21 November 	13:50 	3 hrs	
[05:09] <imbrandon> heh
[05:09] <superm1> hey imbrandon
[05:09] <imbrandon> hum speaking of we should hear about that i think
[05:09] <imbrandon> heya superm1
[05:10] <Toadstool> Hobbsee: wow! fun :p
[05:10] <Hobbsee> indeed.
[05:10] <superm1> you going to need to open a UVFe for that patch I left for myth?  Or should the normal process of just leaving a debdiff suffice?
[05:11] <Toadstool> superm1: bug number?
[05:11] <superm1> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/mythtv/+bug/62909
[05:11] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62909 in mythtv "MythTV Frontend 0.20-0.0ubuntu2 not compiled with MMX enabled" [Undecided,Confirmed] 
[05:11] <imbrandon> superm1, nah the debdiff is fine, i'll upload it here in a few minutes
[05:11] <superm1> mkay sweet
[05:12] <Toadstool> superm1: UVFe is for new upstream versions, no need to ask for an exception when it's just a tiny patch ;)
[05:12] <superm1> okay wasnt too sure
[05:12] <superm1> okay well i'm gonna cut out early tonite.  got my flight back early tomorrow morning.  imbrandon, see you tomrorow at the CC meeting right?
[05:13] <imbrandon> yup yup superm1 ;)
[05:13] <superm1> okay night then all :)
[05:14] <Toadstool> g'night
[05:20] <ajmitch> to the people in the team of sponsors
[05:20] <Hobbsee> minghua: to the people on the team
[05:21] <minghua> everybody?  I see.  thanks
[05:21] <imbrandon> yea everyone on the team
[05:21] <imbrandon> ( as with any LP team afaik )
[05:21] <minghua> (and I can't unsubscribe it from a bug because I am not a member)
[05:22] <Hobbsee> you should be able to
[05:22] <Hobbsee> i thought
[05:22] <minghua> so god bless those with email filters
[05:22] <imbrandon> what bug ?
[05:22] <minghua> imbrandon: bug #63578
[05:22] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 63578 in ubiquity "detects two harddisks, but can only choose one harddisk in "manually edit partition table"" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63578
[05:23] <minghua> and if anyone can show me how to unsubscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors, I'll appreciate that too
[05:23] <imbrandon> ubuntu sponsors isnt subscribed to that bug
[05:23] <imbrandon> universe*
[05:24] <minghua> oops
[05:24] <minghua> bug #63548 instead
[05:24] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 63548 in bandwidthd "Please sync bandwidthd (universe) 2.0.1+cvs20050208-9 from Debian (main)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63548
[05:24] <minghua> imbrandon: sorry
[05:24] <imbrandon> no /me looks
[05:24] <imbrandon> s/no/np
[05:24] <minghua> ajmitch: and I think motu-science's bug mail goes to the list instead of everyone on the team
[05:25] <imbrandon> done: "Ubuntu Sponsors for universe has been unsubscribed from this bug."
[05:30] <Fujitsu> minghua, yeah, I'm not sure how that works... LP is a strange beast.
[05:34] <minghua> indeed.  I never tries to understand LP
[05:34] <minghua> be back soon
[05:34] <Fujitsu> Bye
[05:34] <zakame> bye
[05:42] <TheMuso> Hey MOTUs.
[05:45] <Fujitsu> Hi TheMuso.
[05:49] <imbrandon> heya TheMuso
[05:49] <TheMuso> Hey imbrandon.
[05:49] <TheMuso> How goes it?
[05:51] <imbrandon> good good, just munchin ;)
[05:51] <imbrandon> tollin on LP a bit
[05:51] <imbrandon> trollin'
[05:51] <TheMuso> heh
[05:55] <ajmitch> hm
[05:55] <imbrandon> wb ajmitch
[05:55] <ajmitch> thanks
[05:55] <ajmitch> I guess DSL went away for a few minutes
[05:55] <imbrandon> heh
[05:56] <zakame> wb minghua
[05:57] <minghua> hi zakame, haven't seen you for quite a while
[06:01] <minghua> hmm, yahoo apparently doesn't like the LP bug mail from myself, and throws them in spam folder frequently
[06:01] <imbrandon> heh
[06:16] <Fujitsu> Yay! NZer is back in -devel!
[06:19] <Plug> If you'd asked we could have thrown in another NZer? :)
[06:19] <Plug> now Fujitsu, aren't you meant to be at TAFE?
[06:27] <Fujitsu> Plug, not for 3.5 hours.
[06:28] <Plug> Right.  Crazy timezones. :)
[06:45] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: NZer in devel? we have some of them?
[06:48] <Fujitsu> ajmitch, that troll.
[06:48] <ajmitch> oh fun
[06:50] <jldugger> does the wiki have a log of who deletes or moves pages?
[06:51] <ajmitch> wiki emails probably do
[07:05] <imbrandon> ajmitch, hum did canonical send out the emails about the dev summit ? ( just makin sure my spam filter dident catch it )
[07:05] <imbrandon> or are they late
[07:06] <ajmitch> imbrandon: no idea
[07:06] <jldugger> cuz someone appears to have moved and or deleted the LaptopTestingTeam page, but I can't find any record of it
[07:06] <ajmitch> jldugger: I'll look
[07:07] <ajmitch> jldugger: last change I see on it was yours, and that was no move/delete
[07:08] <imbrandon> hum it does seem to be gone
[07:34] <imbrandon> ajmitch / jldugger : looks like there might be a python / database problem on the wiki atm ( w.r.t. the laptoptestingteam page ) https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2006-October/003320.html
[08:27] <jldugger> ok, well as long as i didnt break it
[08:58] <phanatic> morning
[09:02] <Hobbsee> hey phanatic
[09:02] <phanatic> hey Hobbsee
[09:39] <tomv> Hi. I'm kind of concerned about the ubuntu universe versions of some packages I maintain for Debian. Is there someone in the MOTU team who wants to look at libaqbanking and libchipcard2?
[09:41] <ajmitch> what problems are there? I see they're a few versions behind in edgy, but we've hit freeze time now - need to get approval to update
[09:47] <tomv> ajmitch: the problems are a couple of Debian bugs ranging from important to RC, a memory leak, problems with accessing a class of USB chipcard readers and several bugs that concerning iTAN-based online banking.
[09:49] <ajmitch> sounds reasonable, can you look at the last wiki page in the topic & file bugs about these? I'd hate to ship your packages with RC bugs
[09:49] <tomv> ajmitch: The problem is that these bugs, while no RC in the Debian sense (makes packages useless for everyone), make the packages completely dysfunctional for people affected, often with opaque error messages.
[09:50] <ajmitch> that's still serious enough to get them into edgy
[09:51] <ajmitch> & we tend to trust the debian maintainer's word on this
[09:51] <tomv> ajmitch: Sorry, but I do believe that unless someone really wants online banking in edgy and will subscribe to the upstream mailing list, this project is doomed to fail.
[09:51] <tomv> ajmitch: That's very nice, but I'm not that trustworthy. :)
[09:51] <ajmitch> 'this project' being?
[09:51] <ajmitch> I've seen some of your packaging :)
[09:51] <tomv> The project "having consistently good packages is Ubuntu".
[09:51] <ajmitch> s/seen/inherited/
[09:52] <tomv> Hey, I'm only responsible for the diff. :)
[09:52] <tomv> (the interdiff, that is...)
[09:53] <tomv> ajmitch: Really, I'm not in a too good position to summarize all problems either, because I don't have a lot of bank accounts to transfer money around. :)
[09:53] <ajmitch> hehe
[09:53] <jldugger> i wouldn't mind online banking, but i think my bank does
[09:53] <jldugger> god bless america
[09:53] <ajmitch> trying to track bugs in all the universe packages is always a challenge, true
[09:54] <tomv> ajmitch: and I'm not envying you for the task, either...
[09:54] <ajmitch> tomv: just join us :)
[09:55] <tomv> ajmitch: OK, so I can try to make the changelog of upstream available in a more ready format, they're pretty good at documenting their fixes.
[09:56] <ajmitch> we need to get that list of bugs that are closed in debian & waiting for us to grab - keybuk did generate them at some point
[09:56] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: ping
[09:56] <tomv> ajmitch: I don't want to make Ubuntu Debian. Whatever that means.
[09:56] <ajmitch> layers & layers of bureaucracy?
[09:56] <tomv> ajmitch: Every package cared for. :)
[09:56] <tomv> :p
[09:56] <Burgundavia> ajmitch: pong
[09:57] <ajmitch> heh, debian has MIA maintainers as well
[09:57] <Burgundavia> ajmitch: those lists are still available
[09:57] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: is there some way you can redirect those MoM reports by keybuk?
[09:57] <Burgundavia> yes, manually
[09:57] <ajmitch> so we have to pester keybuk to get him to change the address?
[09:57] <tomv> ajmitch: OK, I'll be off filing ubuntu bugs. :)
[09:57] <ajmitch> I'd rather not write my own code to grab the BTS
[09:58] <ajmitch> tomv: thanks very much :)
[09:58] <Burgundavia> ajmitch: no, I can redirect large numbers in a single batch
[09:59] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: maybe to universe-bugs or similar
[09:59] <ajmitch> I know this was discussed briefly
[09:59] <ajmitch> ah, keybuk is alive as well
[09:59] <Burgundavia> yes, it was discussed recently
[10:13] <tomv> ajmitch: sorry, you thanked me too early. It's not going to happen after all. Blame it all on launchpad. I thought, well, if you can do it via mail, but they want to make me complete my launchpad profile before that...
[10:15] <ajmitch> surely not?
[10:17] <tomv> no. I'll just read a book instead. Hopefully, it's not good, so I can complain.
[10:28] <jldugger> C14LIS! BUY NOW
[10:42] <berent> can anyone tell me how to upgrade to dapper - i have currently 2.6.12
[10:43] <berent> anyone here
[10:43] <Gloubiboulga> berent, please ask on #ubuntu
[10:43] <berent> ok
[11:05] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: so where in the world are you this week? :)
[11:05] <ajmitch> hi azeem
[11:05] <Burgundavia> ajmitch: at home
[11:05] <azeem> heya
[11:06] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: great, how long were you out on the road?
[11:06] <Burgundavia> a week
[11:06] <Burgundavia> off to boston at the end of this week
[11:07] <ajmitch> of the boston trip, not the rest
[11:08] <imbrandon> hehe
[11:08] <ajmitch> hey imbrandon
[11:09] <ajmitch> up early?
[11:09] <imbrandon> yea a bit
[11:09] <imbrandon> went to sleep early ;)
[11:09] <ajmitch> I was worried you were about to reply 'up late' instead
[11:09] <imbrandon> hahaha
[11:09] <imbrandon> nah , not /this/ time
[11:09] <imbrandon> hehe
[11:10] <imbrandon> lol
[11:11] <imbrandon> heya gnome deity , i have a quick question ( probably should be support but its slow in here shhhh ) can i make the clock in the gnome pannel show me times for other timezones when i hove the mouse over it ( i got used to this in KDE )
[11:11] <imbrandon> hover*
[11:11] <ajmitch> I doubt it
[11:11] <ajmitch> that would be a 'feature'
[11:11] <imbrandon> heh
[11:12] <StevenK> imbrandon: Shhh, if you talk about the clock applet, they'll remove it
[11:12] <imbrandon> hahaha
[11:12] <imbrandon> ok so umm how do you all easily check times in other zones ?
[11:13] <imbrandon> or do you hehe
[11:13] <imbrandon> "you all" as in normal gnome users
[11:13] <ajmitch> I always convert in my head :)
[11:13] <shawarma> imbrandon: like so: TZ=Europe/London date
[11:13] <imbrandon> heh ok, figures ;)
[11:15] <StevenK> imbrandon: Hah, try debian-devel sometime
[11:15] <imbrandon> lol no thanks
[11:16] <imbrandon> thats one of the main reasons i will probably never be a DD
[11:16] <imbrandon> sadly
[11:17] <ajmitch> you don't have to read that
[11:17] <ajmitch> oh, Hobbsee is here
[11:17] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: indeed
[11:17] <imbrandon> heh, heya Hobbsee
[11:17] <Hobbsee> good reason not to use gnome
[11:17] <Hobbsee> then again, if i talk about gnome, will they remove it too?
[11:17] <ajmitch> no
[11:17] <Hobbsee> :P
[11:18] <Hobbsee> awww
[11:18] <imbrandon> Hobbsee, yea but since horatio died and my laptop was already loaded with gnome i dident want to reinstall
[11:18] <ajmitch> they'll just laugh at you
[11:18] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: they seem to do that anyway, so...
[11:18] <ajmitch> imbrandon: why would you reinstall?
[11:18] <imbrandon> well install -kubuntu-desktop and remove gnome
[11:18] <imbrandon> etc etc etc
[11:18] <imbrandon> not /really/ "reinstall" link windows
[11:18] <imbrandon> like*
[11:19] <imbrandon> gives me a nice view of the "other side" so when i get kde back i'll love it that much more ;)
[11:19] <imbrandon> sides gnome runs on my lappy faster ;)
[11:19] <imbrandon> shhhh i dident say that
[11:20] <ajmitch> no surprise
[11:20] <imbrandon> it lacks a few minor things i'm used to , but nothing major ( little stuff like the clock etc )
[11:21] <imbrandon> and i'm sure most of it is i just dont have it 100% configured the way i would like yet
[11:22] <imbrandon> i do have it KDEized alot ( as in one pannel at the bottom, the application menus replaced with the main menu , pannel applet placings etc )
[11:22] <imbrandon> heh
[11:22] <ajmitch> we chased her away again
[11:22] <imbrandon> heh
[11:26] <sivang> heh
[11:27] <imbrandon> i guess not for long
[11:28] <minghua> imbrandon: since you tweak your KDE a lot, GNOME probably doesn't suit you after all
[11:28] <minghua> imbrandon: as for the clock thing, I am not aware there's anyway to do that
[11:29] <imbrandon> minghua, very true, there isnt alot of the "options" i'm used to , but for simplisity, its ok i guess
[11:29] <minghua> imbrandon: but if you want to poke hidden features of gnome stuff, install gconf-editor and look at those cryptic values
[11:29] <ajmitch> hi Yagisan
[11:29] <Yagisan> G'day ajmitch
[11:30] <imbrandon> hehe minghua maybe someday , that wont be this morning though , /me whinces at the thought of the windows registry ( gconf editor )
[11:31] <minghua> hey, gconf-editor still has fewever things to click than KDE preference dialog :-P
[11:31] <imbrandon> hahahaa
[11:32] <imbrandon> yea but "simple" in some cases is "simply not what i need it to do"
[11:32] <imbrandon> ;)
[11:32] <minghua> true, gnome is definitely not for everybody
[11:32] <imbrandon> but alas it is a good DE just not good for _me_ ;)
[11:32] <ajmitch> so many bugs to try & keep up with...
[11:32] <minghua> fortunately I like it very much
[11:32] <imbrandon> ;)
[11:33] <Hobbsee> COOL!  I have a fully working edgy again!
[11:33] <ajmitch> hm, *crap*
[11:33] <imbrandon> ajmitch, ?
[11:33] <ajmitch> seems that my power supply fan is not spinning
[11:33] <imbrandon> Hobbsee, yay \o/
[11:34] <NthDegree> kaboomy in not long then ajmitch
[11:34] <imbrandon> ajmitch, ouch , get it fixed asap so you dont end up like me heh
[11:34] <ajmitch> it's a fairly new power supply, too
[11:34] <imbrandon> not good
[11:34] <NthDegree> yeah we all like Hobbsee don''t we ;)
[11:34] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: you broke kde again?
[11:35] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: X broke from -8-generic onwards.  was the toshiba hotkeys
[11:35] <ajmitch> fun
[11:35] <imbrandon> wow
[11:35] <Hobbsee> indeed
[11:35] <TheMuso> Hobbsee: How did that cause problems?
[11:35] <imbrandon> speaking of X is aiglx built into the edgy X ? as in i just need to load compix/beryl and go ?
[11:35] <imbrandon> ajmitch, ^^
[11:36] <ajmitch> imbrandon: yes, what drivers do you use?
[11:36] <imbrandon> this lappy has an ati card
[11:36] <ajmitch> hm, inside of my case is fairly warm
[11:36] <imbrandon> ajmitch, ouch , icepacks
[11:36] <imbrandon> heh
[11:36] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: kernel oops
[11:36] <TheMuso> oooo
[11:37] <ajmitch> imbrandon: it's a large case, but I might shut down in a bit :)
[11:37] <TheMuso> Reported?
[11:37] <imbrandon> ajmitch, 0000:00:10.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc Radeon Mobility M7 LW [Radeon Mobility 7500] 
[11:37] <ajmitch> imbrandon: right, so uses the r200/r300 drivers?
[11:37] <imbrandon> and the opensource ati driver afaik
[11:37] <imbrandon> what ever edgy defaulted to
[11:38] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: yep
[11:38] <imbrandon> is there a way to check ?
[11:38] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: that's how it got diagnosed :P
[11:38] <imbrandon> err "whats the way to check"
[11:38] <TheMuso> Hobbsee: I guess you reported it?
[11:38] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: yeah, and others
[11:39] <TheMuso> Right.
[11:39] <ajmitch> I wonder if my box will come back up easily...
[11:39] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: the guy saw my syslog, found the cause, then found that others had reported the same bug.  with the solution.
[11:39] <imbrandon> ajmitch, well only one way to find out, heh make sure its upto date and pray ;)
[11:39] <ajmitch> imbrandon: not rebooted for > 2 months
[11:40] <ajmitch> so before the UUID changes, upstart, etc
[11:40] <imbrandon> wow , on a desktop
[11:40] <imbrandon> yea
[11:40] <imbrandon> big changes
[11:40] <ajmitch> & this is LVM+RAID
[11:40] <imbrandon> oh nice, yea i'll pray too ;)
[11:40] <imbrandon> ( with you ) heh
[11:41] <ajmitch> going down...
[11:41] <imbrandon> can-of-air dident help the psu fan ?>
[11:41] <imbrandon> ajmitch, good luck
[11:44] <ajmitch> it could be the knob on front to control fan speed
[11:44] <ajmitch> I'll plug it directly onto the motherboard to see
[11:44] <imbrandon> ahh
[11:44] <ajmitch> irssi is on another box, of course :)
[11:44] <TheMuso> StevenK: You running the latest at-spi etc?
[11:44] <imbrandon> right , i figured as much ;)
[11:45] <imbrandon> brb gonna grab some soda
[11:46] <ajmitch> this gives me a chance to try out xen on amd64, of course :)
[11:46] <imbrandon> how do i check what driver X is using , my xorg.conf says "ati" so i'm guessing thats not the r200/2300 you spoke of
[11:46] <imbrandon> ajmitch, very true
[11:46] <minghua> am I the only one find it annoying that dapper-backports package update mails are sent to dapper-changes list?
[11:46] <imbrandon> minghua, where else would they be sent , i mean it is a dapper-update
[11:47] <imbrandon> err dapper-change
[11:47] <minghua> imbrandon: I am not sure about the official policy, but I won't put dapper-backports in my sources.list, and I don't want to see dapper-backports mails
[11:48] <minghua> if there is another list for dapper-updates, maybe I should subscribe to that instead
[11:48] <imbrandon> nope all one list afaik
[11:48] <minghua> oh, and I would suggest them sent to ubuntu-backports instead
[11:49] <imbrandon> they are sent to ubuntu-backports ( along with the bug info ) but its a dapper change also so its sent there as well iirc
[11:49] <minghua> well, it look like it's just a pet peeve of mine, so never mind
[11:50] <imbrandon> i wouldent imagine it would be hard to filter them from the X- headers
[11:50] <imbrandon> wouldent
[11:50] <imbrandon> err nvm
[11:51] <StevenK> TheMuso: Well, it was both me and Bart.
[11:52] <minghua> imbrandon: no, probably not X- headers, but it's always parseable by Distribution: in the body
[11:52] <StevenK> TheMuso: I forcibly downgraded Bart's machine to 1.7.11, I'll see if it helps.
[11:52] <imbrandon> minghua, true
[12:00] <minghua> hmm, mailman sends out a privacy alert when you try to subscribe to a list that you are already subscribed, interesting
[12:01] <ajmitch> hm
[12:02] <ajmitch> yet it's going fine with a live cd
[12:02] <StevenK> ajmitch: Stupid question. NZ phone numbers are 2 numbers for the area code and 7 numbers?
[12:03] <ajmitch> StevenK: yes, except for mobile numbers
[12:05] <minghua> good for NZers, small country can afford 2 digit area code
[12:06] <StevenK> Australia is huge and has 2 digits.
[12:08] <tseng> except that no one lives there
[12:09] <StevenK> Um
[12:09] <tseng> you missed
[12:09] <ajmitch> heh
[12:12] <minghua> you define small and big countries by population instead of area when talking about phone numbers :-)
[12:12] <ajmitch> ok, with the right (non-xen) kernel I'm back with a desktop
[12:33] <TheMuso> StevenK: The latest versions for me both on an install and live CD seem to be fine.
[12:33] <TheMuso> I am not getting any bubbles showing up reporting a crash at least.
[12:34] <TheMuso> Nope, nothing in there.
[12:35] <StevenK> TheMuso: I managed to kill it on my laptop. Try and bring up the Desktop Background Preferences, that killed it everytime on Bart's machine.
[12:36] <StevenK> TheMuso: My main problem is I can't strace or gdb at-spi-registryd.
[12:38] <TheMuso> Yeah I know. I tried that myself as well.
[12:39] <StevenK> I haven't read the code, but I can't see why it would. Unless it has fucked signal handlers or something.
[12:41] <TheMuso> Seems fine here.
[12:41] <TheMuso> This is on an HD install.
[12:42] <TheMuso> With latest updates, at least from an .au mirror.
[12:42] <StevenK> This is an upgrade from Dapper, done today.
[12:42] <TheMuso> Ok, couldbe an upgrade regression then.
[12:43] <TheMuso> I need to do a Linux install on my laptop, might do that later tonight and upgrade to see for myself.
[12:43] <StevenK> TheMuso: Kay.
[12:43] <StevenK> TheMuso: I just get lost with all this accessibility stuff. It doesn't help that Bart keeps asking me for help with it.
[12:44] <TheMuso> Understandable.
[12:45] <StevenK> TheMuso: Oh yes, Bart and I solved the orca problem.
[12:45] <TheMuso> What was it?
[12:45] <StevenK> TheMuso: We're not sure to be honest. :-)
[12:45] <TheMuso> Right.
[12:45] <StevenK> TheMuso: We killed the Gnome and Orca configs and it's fine.
[12:46] <TheMuso> Why does that not surprise me? :)
[12:47] <minghua> Bart, obviously :-)
[12:47] <StevenK> Hah
[12:50] <TheMuso> StevenK: Nobody.
[12:50] <StevenK> TheMuso: Heh, okay
[01:07] <ajmitch> dapper live cds are great
[01:07] <ajmitch> they can be used to check all kinds of things, like using it as a mirror to check if a fan is going
[01:08] <TheMuso> heh
[01:41] <TheMuso> Can anybody remember the URL of that site that allowed one to generate a vmware player config?
[01:45] <TheMuso> nvm
[01:47] <imbrandon> siretart, ping
[01:57] <siretart> imbrandon: po
[01:57] <siretart> ng
[01:58] <imbrandon> heh
[01:59] <imbrandon> siretart, xine-lib is patched a little funny, wanted to ping you about the patch attached to bug https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/xine-lib/+bug/63130
[01:59] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 63130 in xine-lib "Amarok does not play *.shn files" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] 
[01:59] <imbrandon> seems ok to me but thought you might like to eyeball it before i added it to the ubuntuX.diff
[02:00] <imbrandon> ( it was originaly reported as a amarok bug but really xine-lib )
[02:03] <siretart> imbrandon: feel free to branch from my packaging branch
[02:03] <siretart> I'll look at it
[02:03] <imbrandon> ok siretart thanks
[02:38] <bddebian> Heya gang
[02:39] <Fujitsu> bddebian!
[02:39] <bddebian> Hi Fujitsu
[02:50] <zul> anyone know whats going on with sponsorship stuff
[03:02] <imbrandon> zul, afaik from what i've heard they are just late getting the emails out
[03:02] <zul> ah ok
[03:02] <imbrandon> still might not hurt to poke them for "official" word
[03:03] <imbrandon> ;)
[04:24] <imbrandon> zul, check you email ( if you havent already ;P )
[04:25] <imbrandon> s/you/your
[04:25] <zul> imbrandon: i know happy happy joy joy
[04:25] <imbrandon> ;)
[04:25] <imbrandon> kinda funny she dident bcc: them
[04:25] <imbrandon> heh
[04:28] <gnomefreak> are there any plans to upgrade enlightenment to E17 for edgy+1 or is it something that needs to be more stable?
[04:29] <gnomefreak> congrats zul and imbrandon
[04:29] <zul> thanks..
[04:29] <TheMuso> Congrats guys.
[04:29] <imbrandon> thanks ;)
[04:30] <TheMuso> Welcome. You'll have fun.
[04:30] <TheMuso> Tis an awesome experience.
[04:30] <imbrandon> gnomefreak, probably as there are alot of people seeming to use svn snapshots although a release would be nice
[04:30] <imbrandon> TheMuso, you not makin this one ?
[04:31] <gnomefreak> imbrandon: i dont remember a release in site (i think thats normal for them though)
[04:31] <TheMuso> Very likely not. Haven't received an email yet
[04:31] <imbrandon> ahh
[04:31] <imbrandon> ;(
[04:31] <TheMuso> Since I went to the last one as well. :)
[04:31] <TheMuso> Ah well.
[04:31] <imbrandon> true , from what i've been told the dont sponsor 2 times in a row afaik
[04:31] <imbrandon> only like ever other time or somethign
[04:31] <TheMuso> Thats what I've heard as well
[04:32] <imbrandon> i dunno for sure though
[04:32] <gnomefreak> Hawkwin^d  has a great repo for it and its updated alot i was trying to get into source-o-matic
[04:32] <TheMuso> Worth a shot anyway
[04:32] <imbrandon> TheMuso, definately
[04:32] <imbrandon> gnomefreak, yea i'm aware, honestly i am in hopes Hawkwind will do the MOTU thing and keep it upto date in edgy+1 universe
[04:33] <imbrandon> ;)
[04:33] <TheMuso> And I'm not very geographically close.
[04:33] <imbrandon> ahh very true
[04:33] <TheMuso> As long as there is a good way people outside the conference can participate, I'm happy.
[04:33] <TheMuso> Although I still don't like how the the schedules will be done from day to day.
[04:33] <gnomefreak> imbrandon: i think that sounds like a great idea if he will accept. he still hasnt got a edgy repo yet and its not installible on edgy yet
[04:33] <imbrandon> i'll definately try to keep on peoples minds i rember the hardships from last time
[04:35] <TheMuso> Well, perhaps next time, Hobbsee can go for sponsorship as well. I reckon she'd get it.
[04:36] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: yeah, maybe.
[04:36] <StevenK> TheMuso: There might be other factors.
[04:36] <TheMuso> StevenK: I am well aware of that
[04:37] <imbrandon> StevenK, UDS ;)
[04:37] <StevenK> I suspect my wife will incredibly dislike the answer.
[04:37] <TheMuso> Anyway, I really must get to bed.
[04:37] <imbrandon> StevenK, you cringe when we ask you about DD stuff ;)
[04:37] <imbrandon> so UDS ;)
[04:37] <imbrandon> TheMuso, gnight bro
[04:37] <StevenK> TheMuso: Night
[04:37] <TheMuso> Night guys.
[04:39] <Hobbsee> night TheMuso
[04:39] <Hobbsee> StevenK: UDS :P
[04:39] <StevenK> imbrandon: The problem is that Debconf 7 is in Edinburg. Where my wife *really* wants to visit, since her fathers family hail from around there.
[04:41] <StevenK> imbrandon: I feel, like Keybuk does, that I'm not a part of the DD community any more, which is sad. This makes me reconsider Debconf 7
[04:42] <Riddell> but but... Edinburgh!
[04:42] <imbrandon> hehe
[04:43] <StevenK> The next UDS needs to happen in July 2007 :-P
[04:43] <StevenK> In Edinburgh
[04:43] <imbrandon> heh
[04:45] <Riddell> too right, my flat has about 6 times the bandwidth of certain other ubuntu conferences
[04:46] <imbrandon> hahaha
[04:46] <imbrandon> i am thinking googleplex will have plenty o bandwidth though
[04:46] <Riddell> plus that would mean having 100% of the interesting free software community conferences in Britain
[04:46] <imbrandon> maybe by that time i will have moved to the EU also ;)
[05:06] <phanatic> good afternoon
[05:08] <bddebian> Heya phanatic
[05:08] <phanatic> heya bddebian
[05:40] <Hawkwind> gnomefreak: You around ?
[05:43] <gnomefreak> yeah kind of
[05:44] <Hawkwind> gnomefreak: Edgy E17 packages will be built tomorrow, and the SoS Edgy repo will go into effect no later than this weekend
[05:44] <gnomefreak> Hawkwind: ok cool
[05:45] <gnomefreak> ty
[05:45] <Hawkwind> No problem.  Just been really busy with a lot of things so the Edgy thing has been kind of pushed off
[05:45] <Hawkwind> But I know it's in high demand right now as we are nearing the release
[05:45] <gnomefreak> i understand
[05:46] <gnomefreak> Hawkwind: this is just a thought atm that was thrown around but how would you feel about maintaining edgy+1 packages in universe for e17?
[05:47] <Hawkwind> Heh.  I saw that convo earlier.  It's something I'm thinking about.  Just building packages for Mandriva for my repo and Ubuntu take a lot of time.  But definitely something I enjoy doing.
[05:48] <gnomefreak> cool
[05:48] <Hawkwind> I feel I've still got some learning to do when it comes to building debs and doing them good enough to get approved for REVU.  I'm curious if the E17 debs would pass or not currently
[05:49] <Hawkwind> Only running Ubuntu for 3 months now I'm still relatively new in some areas, packaging being one I feel
[06:36] <lfittl> PART
[06:53] <sivang> re folks
[06:54] <sivang> will it be possible to include a NEW package in unverse at that time given a good enough reason for exception is given?
[06:56] <LaserJock> sivang: maybe
[06:56] <sivang> LaserJock: who are the folks who are responsible for approve such?
[06:56] <LaserJock> sivang: I'm not sure what the policy is for a FF exception
[06:56] <LaserJock> slomo, siretart, and dholbach
[06:57] <sivang> LaserJock: ah cool
[06:57] <LaserJock> sivang: what I would do is right an email to ubuntu-motu
[06:57] <LaserJock> explaining your case, so people can comment, etc.
[06:57] <sivang> LaserJock: okay, cool
[06:58] <sivang> but first to produce the package
[06:58] <sivang> LaserJock: how are you're little molecules doing btw?
[06:59] <LaserJock> heh
[06:59] <LaserJock> I'm hitting them all right ;-)
[07:02] <beligum> Hi all, I'm looking for someone who wants to take over the ScreenKast packaging...
[07:04] <LaserJock> dholbach: can I get a second of your time before the meeting starts?
[07:04] <dholbach> LaserJock: you might try
[07:05] <LaserJock> dholbach: I was wondering what your reasoning behind getting goffice from Debian experimental was
[07:05] <LaserJock> dholbach: does gnumeric really require that version?
[07:05] <dholbach> LaserJock: when? where?
[07:05] <LaserJock> sorry
[07:05] <LaserJock> edgy's gnumeric depends on libgoffice-0-3
[07:06] <LaserJock> but that is a Debian experimental package
[07:06] <LaserJock> that i've been told is quite unstable
[07:06] <dholbach> it needs it
[07:06] <dholbach> that's why
[07:06] <dholbach> 1.7.0 is the gnumeric "unstable" branch, it needs that version of goffice
[07:06] <LaserJock> ok
[07:06] <dholbach> and the only change in goffice was afaik a change in arguments of a function
[07:06] <dholbach> which brought a soname change
[07:07] <dholbach> so there are no huge differences
[07:07] <dholbach> iirc
[07:07] <dholbach> it's been a while since we did that
[07:07] <LaserJock> heh, except I'm trying to get a package in that FTBFS with that version of goffice
[07:07] <LaserJock> oh well, edgy+1 I think ;-)
[07:07] <dholbach> Mon,  3 Jul 2006
[07:08] <dholbach> I'm sure it's a change in arguments
[07:08] <LaserJock> I just wondered if gnumeric's dependency was strict on that version of goffice
[07:08] <dholbach> where is the build log?
[07:08] <LaserJock> I don't have one
[07:08] <LaserJock> we were trying to get a package from Debian in last minute
[07:08] <dholbach> how do you know it ftbfs?
[07:08] <LaserJock> anyway, it's a little late
[07:08] <LaserJock> because the author and Debian maintainer told me so
[07:09] <dholbach> well
[07:09] <dholbach> it'd be nice to see the last messages from the ftbfs
[07:09] <LaserJock> sure
[07:09] <LaserJock> it could be a small thing
[07:09] <dholbach> i'm sure there's not much required to fix it again
[07:09] <LaserJock> but it's past Universe Freeze
[07:09] <LaserJock> so I'll probably defer it to Edgy+1
[07:09] <LaserJock> I just wish I  found out sooner
[07:09] <LaserJock> as I would have tried to fix it
[07:10] <LaserJock> dholbach: ok, I'll leave you alone now
[07:10] <LaserJock> ;-)
[07:10] <dholbach> LaserJock: if we can fix it with a UVF we should do it
[07:10] <dholbach> LaserJock: but I'm not keeping you here - have a nice day
[07:11] <LaserJock> dholbach: it would be a NEW package
[07:11] <dholbach> get it reviewed, file a uvf for it
[08:01] <LaserJock> my goodness
[08:01] <LaserJock> a 14MB diff to a 7MB .orig.tar.gz
[08:01] <slomo> woah
[08:01] <slomo> which package is this? :)
[08:01] <superm1> lol what to?
[08:01] <LaserJock> gcl
[08:02] <slomo> that's even worse than ikvm with almost 1:1 diff.gz and orig.tar.gz
[08:04] <LaserJock> and debdiff chokes
[08:05] <lfittl_> wtf, why is ChanServ giving me channel operator status? (just playing around innocently with irssi)
[08:12] <LaserJock> is there a good place to get older debian source packages?
[08:13] <crimsun> snapshot.debian.net
[08:19] <LaserJock> crimsun: is that an official  debian project?
[08:20] <crimsun> LaserJock: not afaik, but I've been away for some time
[08:20] <LaserJock> I never really know with debian.org vs debian.net
[08:29] <LaserJock> my goodness
[08:30] <LaserJock> the fix for maxima
[08:30] <LaserJock> is 1 missing "else" in gcl
[08:32] <lfittl> hmm, do MOTUs automatically have op rights in this channel? (just wondering)
[08:33] <LaserJock> not sure
[08:33] <crimsun> it's open, anyone can get ops.
[08:34] <crimsun> brandon stated as much a couple months ago
[08:34] <lfittl> ah, ok
[08:34] <amachu> Og
[08:54] <sharms> anyone know anything about the libogre package?
[08:57] <LaserJock> grrrr
[08:57] <LaserJock> I hate gcl
[08:57] <superm1> thanks LaserJock :)
[08:58] <LaserJock> np dude, congrats
[08:59] <superm1> could you by chance put me in contact with the people holding the multimedia conference nov 5-10?
[08:59] <LaserJock> stupid thing bails out on debuild
[08:59] <superm1> i'd for sure like to look more into it
[08:59] <LaserJock> it's not a multimedia conference
[08:59] <LaserJock> its the Ubuntu Developer Summit
[08:59] <superm1> oh
[08:59] <LaserJock> at Google Headquarters
[08:59] <superm1> wow
[09:00] <LaserJock> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperSummitMountainView
[09:00] <crimsun> superm1: e-mail jono bacon (jono@ubuntu.com)
[09:00] <superm1> Ok.  will do
[09:01] <superm1> thanks again. I'm gonna get going then
[09:01] <crimsun> superm1: please mention that you're involved w/ a/v
[09:01] <superm1> k
[09:01] <LaserJock> oh, I wonder if this is a bashism
[09:02] <LaserJock> crimsun:  rm -f ${debian/control.rm%.rm}
[09:02] <LaserJock> that's not a bashism is it? I didn't think it was
[09:09] <geser> I'm looking at the packages with unmet deps and need now an advise how to resolve the gnustep packages
[09:09] <geser> a simple rebuild won't fix it
[09:10] <geser> as far as I tracked it back two packages from debian are needed to be synced (new upstream versions)
[09:11] <geser> then can the induvial packages be synced to get rid of this unmet dep
[09:11] <LaserJock> k
[09:12] <geser> should sync request + uvf exceptions be filed for these packages?
[09:13] <LaserJock> are they new upstream versions?
[09:14] <lfittl> sharms: what do you need to know about ogre?
[09:14] <sharms> lfittl: oh the current package just seems like a huge mess and is out of date, I think we just sync it straight from debian.  I would like to make a more up to date one, but don't even know the first place to start
[09:15] <lfittl> sharms: I already have a almost finished one here, just need to clean some stuff up and test it ;)
[09:15] <lfittl> but as there are some issues that I want to resolve (samples can't be shipped because of media file license issues), it probably won't make it into edgy
[09:16] <sharms> lfittl: yeah I was thinking edgy + 1
[09:16] <sharms> lfittl: I looked at it one day but it was a little to big for me to handle yet
[09:17] <lfittl> sharms: I see, problem is that I already did most work on it, so there is little to do, sry for that
[09:18] <sharms> lfittl: I take that as a gift for sure :)  Do you have a repository up?
[09:18] <sharms> or svn
[09:19] <lfittl> sharms: not yet, will put one up this weekend if you are interested
[09:19] <sharms> lfittl: sharms@nospam__ubuntu.com
[09:19] <ajmitch> morning
[09:20] <sharms> lfittl: and that would be great if you could
[09:21] <lfittl> sharms: still, the package is not yet in a shape that is working (I just cleaned up the rules file and so on) so I will mail you the next days as soon as it is working ;)
[09:22] <sharms> lfittl: yeah and if you cant I will give it a shot too
[09:22] <lfittl> sharms: sure :)
[09:23] <geser> LaserJock: yes, gnustep-make 1.13.0-1 (ubuntu:  1.12.0-2) is needed for gnustep-base 1.13.0-3 (ubuntu: 1.11.2-3) which is needed for gnustep-gui 0.11.0-2 (ubuntu: 0.10.2-1) which is needed for gnustep-back 0.11.0-2 which currently FTBFS
[09:24] <LaserJock> sounds good, make it so ;-)
[09:24] <geser> gnustep-back produced gnustep-back0.10 which is now missing
[09:25] <geser> how are the chances to get the exceptions for these packages approved?
[09:25] <LaserJock> not sure
[09:25] <LaserJock> you don't know unless you try it ;-)
[09:25] <geser> currently some gnustep-packages can't get installed
[09:26] <LaserJock> joejaxx: congrats
[09:27] <joejaxx> LaserJock: thanks
[09:27] <joejaxx> LaserJock: thank you for your support also
[09:27] <lfittl> dholbach: ping
[09:32] <crimsun> imbrandon: ping
[09:32] <dholbach> lfittl: pong
[09:36] <LaserJock> I've not seen this ahod person around
[09:36] <slomo> me neither
[09:36] <slomo> but someone caring about ifolder would be nice ;)
[09:40] <ajmitch> surely not
[09:41] <slomo> why?
[09:44] <ajmitch> isn't it meant to be this package that everyone hates & noone tries to get in?
[09:45] <slomo> well, that guy is an ex-novell employee and libflaim upstream or something
[09:45] <slomo> i would assume that he could be the right person to care about this stuff
[09:45] <hub> heya
[09:45] <ajmitch> oh that's a bit more use
[09:45] <sharms> last I read I thought ifolder was basically abandonded by novell?
[09:46] <sharms> atleast current development
[09:46] <slomo> no idea... would be bad, at least the idea was nice
[09:46] <geser> dholbach: how are the chances to get UVF exceptions for gnustep-{make,base,gui}? they are needed to get the gnustep libs in sync to be able to resolve the unmet deps of several gnustep apps
[09:47] <dholbach> geser: file the bugs with the info on it and we'll have a look at it
[09:47] <dholbach> I can't judge it just by the package name - but making stuff installable again is cool
[09:47] <geser> ok, will do
[09:48] <dholbach> thanks a lot
[09:48] <ajmitch> of course sabdfl asked about how good we are at following up with REVU...
[09:49] <dholbach> I hope we find some good ideas to get things rolling
[09:49] <ajmitch> ideas are fine, but we need more people reviewing
[09:50] <ajmitch> the *first* upload I see from ahod on revu for libflaim is about 1 or 2 days ago
[09:51] <dholbach> *nod*
[09:51] <crimsun> how large is the core dedicated MOTU group, anyway? It always seems to be a resource issue for REVU.
[09:51] <LaserJock> I wanted to tell him that if he hired some more MOTUs and bought us a pbuilder farm we'd get it done faster ;-)
[09:51] <ajmitch> maybe 5-10 people if we're lucky
[09:51] <LaserJock> yeah
[09:52] <ajmitch> and of those 5-10 people, I'd say < 5 regularly review stuff
[09:52] <crimsun> We simply can't scale; all the MOTU who are paid Canonical employees are tied up with other things
[09:52] <dholbach> I should review some more :-/
[09:52] <ajmitch> and that will continue
[09:52] <ajmitch> dholbach: you shouldn't have to
[09:52] <LaserJock> right
[09:52] <dholbach> I'd like to
[09:53] <LaserJock> haha
[09:53] <slomo> dholbach: we should re-invent the revu days... and make them more often
[09:53] <dholbach> I very much liked the telepathy experiment
[09:53] <dholbach> we had people committing their packaging and improved it together
[09:54] <dholbach> it was real quick and brought good results
[09:54] <dholbach> (packaging in bzr on launchpad)
[09:57] <bddebian> What MOTU's are paid canonical employees? :)
[09:57] <crimsun> oliver and daniel
[09:57] <bddebian> Ah
[09:57] <LaserJock> perhaps building on the MOTU teams more
[09:58] <ajmitch> LaserJock: we still need more active & competent MOTUs
[09:58] <hub> doesn't daniel also package gnome with seb128?
[09:58] <LaserJock> yes
[09:58] <bddebian> Yeah, so I had better quit now
[10:01] <sharms> how about another motu-school?
[10:02] <LaserJock> sure
[10:02] <bddebian> LaserJock: Yeah, why not give a class on How to be a Raging MOTU-Aholic? ;-P
[10:02] <LaserJock> heh
[10:02] <LaserJock> subtitle: "How to kill yourself and burn out in 12 easy steps"
[10:02] <bddebian> hehe
[10:03] <hub> motu for dummies
[10:03] <hub> "sorry your application failed"
[10:03] <LaserJock> we have really 2 problems that we need to attack
[10:03] <LaserJock> 1) we need more people
[10:03] <LaserJock> 2) we need more quality people
[10:03] <bddebian> 3) We need leadership
[10:04] <ajmitch> bddebian: you can solve 3)
[10:04] <LaserJock> perhaps
[10:04] <crimsun> then get sabdfl to employ barry
[10:04] <bddebian> ajmitch: Howso?
[10:04] <ajmitch> bddebian: step up & do it
[10:04] <ajmitch> same goes for anyone
[10:04] <LaserJock> what we might want to think about is using the Teams more for leadership
[10:04] <LaserJock> it's a bit overwhelming to try to lead MOTU as a whole
[10:04] <bddebian> ajmitch: 1) I don't believe I have the skillz.  2) I'm a little screwed for time ATM.  Possibly after November
[10:05] <bddebian> crimsun: Haha, core-dev wouldn't even have me, you think Canonical would? :-)
[10:05] <LaserJock> I don't know, maybe jono would have some ideas
[10:05] <LaserJock> he's supposed to be the community guru ;-)
[10:06] <crimsun> I'm devoting essentially all my free time to ubuntu, but this pace simply is not sustainable
[10:06] <LaserJock> exactly
[10:06] <LaserJock> mine is neither
[10:06] <LaserJock> I'm pretty close to taking an extended Ubuntu holiday
[10:06] <bddebian> I was too until work picked up :-(
[10:07] <bddebian> And I don't feel like I even make a freakin' dent
[10:07] <LaserJock> we simply can't put all of MOTU on 5-10 people
[10:07] <robitaille> then you need to attract new fresh blood :)
[10:08] <LaserJock> robitaille: thanks for the insight ;-)
[10:08] <bddebian> I had two contact me for "sponsorship" but seem to have lost them.. :-(
[10:08] <crimsun> fresh blood is only part of the issue. We need people can /pour time/ into motu.
[10:08] <amachu> hi
[10:08] <bddebian> Sometimes it's hard to give direction when feeling chaotic yourself
[10:08] <crimsun> who can , even
[10:08] <ajmitch> I swore that I wasn't going to be doing ubuntu until 2AM last night
[10:08] <LaserJock> or at least a lot that can give a little ;-)
[10:08] <ajmitch> but I ended up doing it anyway
[10:08] <robitaille> I'm pointing a finger at myself here....but lack of time keep getting into the way of expanding my ubuntu partipation in things like MOTU
[10:09] <LaserJock> I think the big thing is
[10:09] <ajmitch> but work needs me for more
[10:09] <LaserJock> right now it seems to be a truly active and good MOTU takes virtually a full time commitment
[10:10] <bddebian> Aye
[10:10] <LaserJock> that's not a sustainable volunteer model,  IMO
[10:10] <ajmitch> to really get into it, it does
[10:10] <ajmitch> mostly because there's little way that someone can just spend an hour or two a week
[10:10] <crimsun> (to point we anticipated this back in hoary and even mused about paying people to do maintenance)
[10:11] <LaserJock> so I think we might have to put our thinking caps on
[10:11] <LaserJock> and look at ways we can lower the required time commitments while still keeping good MOTUs
[10:11] <crimsun> lowered time commitments isn't going to happen imo
[10:12] <bddebian> Aye, I was just going to say that
[10:12] <LaserJock> why not?
[10:12] <LaserJock> right now we just burn people up and the go away
[10:12] <bddebian> Well the NEW crap to maintaining existing crap grows exponentially to my point of view
[10:12] <LaserJock> one thing I've found, is that if you go away for even a couple weeks
[10:13] <LaserJock> it takes quite a bit to get back in the game
[10:13] <bddebian> The more stuff we review means the more stuff to maintain the next "go-round"
[10:13] <LaserJock> yes
[10:13] <bddebian> LaserJock: Agreed, that's where I think we need leadership / direction to set "priority"
[10:13] <LaserJock> I really wish we could focus less on NEW packages
[10:13] <lophyte> why not split the MOTU up into teams?
[10:13] <lophyte> like subteams.. have one that only works on new packages
[10:13] <bddebian> Based on what?  There is some of that now
[10:14] <LaserJock> it is, sorta
[10:14] <lophyte> ah
[10:14] <LaserJock> I don't think the teams are used effectively though
[10:14] <crimsun> the problem is that you need a team of experienced MOTU to handle new candidate packages
[10:15] <LaserJock> yes, I think it is a mistake to push MOTU hopefuls at REVU and new packages
[10:15] <crimsun> the opportunity cost of shifting existing MOTU to that solely is quite high
[10:16] <slomo> LaserJock: completely agreed
[10:16] <lophyte> well, I'm wanting to get involved.. and I contributed a package.. but my problem is the fact that I'm not exactly sure how to fix broken packages
[10:16] <LaserJock> people certainly get a lot of satisfaction of seeing their package getting uploaded
[10:16] <bddebian> Why have we lost so damn many? :-(
[10:16] <slomo> LaserJock: but people come here with the will to package something
[10:16] <LaserJock> I think we need to push maintainership more
[10:17] <bddebian> LaserJock: I don't disagree but I'm not sure that's possible given the ratio of packages to MOTUs
[10:17] <slomo> LaserJock: maintainership as in build teams that care for a specific set of packages? like the telepathy example?
[10:17] <LaserJock> perhaps we could even have a basic REVU freeze for one cycle
[10:17] <lophyte> LaserJock: you mean like a dedicated person to a certain number of packages?
[10:17] <crimsun> geser: are you planning to apply for membership + MOTU anytime soon?
[10:17] <LaserJock> no uneccesary NEW packages
[10:17] <LaserJock> just focus on the packages we have
[10:18] <BazziR> LaserJock: that produces bad reputation imo
[10:18] <LaserJock> why?
[10:18] <geser> crimsun: yes
[10:18] <crimsun> geser: excellent
[10:18] <LaserJock> we are doing Debian+
[10:18] <BazziR> "ubuntu does not want new packages"
[10:18] <LaserJock> Debian doesn't have a bad rep for it's number of packages
[10:19] <slomo> but in debian someone specifically cares for one package
[10:19] <lophyte> well, if you guys would like a newbies PoV... I've read the packaging docs and I have a general idea of how packaging works, but I'm still not exactly sure how to fix packages.. I've downloaded a couple and looked at them and really had no idea where to go from there.. perhaps others are having the same problem and thus there isn't a great number of volunteers
[10:19] <crimsun> honestly, we need to reimplement a release-exception "fast track" as we did during hoary where membership + MOTU were gained in one step. People like Fujitsu_ (if he weren't already a MOTU) and geser would be my candidates.
[10:19] <LaserJock> I think it's a little insane to think we can put in packages Debian doesn't, *and* manage our existing divergence
[10:19] <BazziR> lophyte: yes I've got the same problem...
[10:19] <geser> crimsun: have I already the requirements for membership fulfilled or do I need to do more?
[10:20] <crimsun> geser: imo you certainly have
[10:20] <slomo> imho we should get a bunch of teams for specific sets of packages ready to care at least for the important parts of universe... and then we can care about getting NEW packages in and forming teams around them...
[10:20] <slomo> geser: with your number of syncs, merges, whatever you definitely have
[10:21] <bddebian> But that still comes back to my question.  Who says what Universe packages are "important"?
[10:21] <ajmitch> ok, back at keyboard
[10:21] <lophyte> I've got a suggestion...
[10:21] <ajmitch> bddebian: I pick & choose
[10:21] <LaserJock> bddebian: I do darn it! ;-)
[10:21] <bddebian> Sweet
[10:21] <ajmitch> like the science team does
[10:21] <slomo> bddebian: packages that people care about are important
[10:21] <bddebian> slomo: And you know which ones those are?
[10:21] <lophyte> the current MOTU "mentorship".. how exactly does it work? is it just a matter of a newbie having contact with a certain MOTU?
[10:21] <ajmitch> crimsun: I still see quality problems ahead
[10:21] <BazziR> wouldn't it be possible to track the popularity? and if you see "hey 50,000 people want X" you mark it as vital?
[10:22] <LaserJock> it's not as easy as one might think
[10:22] <slomo> bddebian: i guess you have a number of packages that you like... or a specific area of packages. these are the important packages (for you)
[10:22] <bddebian> BazziR: It's tough unless you have something like popcon but that requires user effort
[10:22] <ajmitch> BazziR: popcon is opt-in
[10:22] <crimsun> ajmitch: intractable, yes
[10:23] <bddebian> slomo: Right but that is just or "you" or "me" not the user community who is supposed to be who we are supporting isn't it?
[10:23] <LaserJock> bddebian: got a better way?
[10:23] <LaserJock> forums! ;-)
[10:23] <bddebian> heh
[10:23] <bddebian> LaserJock: No, unfortunately I don't
[10:24] <LaserJock> ok, some here are some ideas:
[10:24] <LaserJock> 1) get good people into MOTU faster
[10:24] <LaserJock> 2) utilize teams more
[10:24] <LaserJock> 3) provide better decision making information (unmet deps, etc.)
[10:25] <bddebian> Sounds great, make it so #1 ;-P
[10:25] <LaserJock> 4) let the uberMOTUs focus on UVFe and things like that
[10:25] <LaserJock> and reviewing NEW
[10:25] <bddebian> Who are the uberMOTUs?
[10:25] <LaserJock> we'll have to figure that out
[10:26] <slomo> reviewing NEW is critical
[10:26] <crimsun> the ones handling UVF atm
[10:26] <slomo> especially considering license and copyright stuff...
[10:26] <bddebian> slomo: Why?  More stuff to maintain?
[10:26] <LaserJock> 5) less focus on REVU and NEW packages and more on maintaining what we have
[10:27] <bddebian> LaserJock: Sounds like we have dissenting opinions on that point :-)
[10:27] <slomo> oh i thought with reviewing NEW you meant reviewing the NEW queue and deciding which stuff can go into the archive etc ;)
[10:27] <LaserJock> on 5)
[10:27] <crimsun> bddebian: packaging and licensing intricacies.
[10:27] <LaserJock> slomo: sorry, I was thinking more of REVU
[10:27] <bddebian> Aye, that is what I thought you meant
[10:27] <LaserJock> my point being
[10:28] <LaserJock> that if we have good teams
[10:28] <lophyte> LaserJock: I've got a suggestion for #1
[10:28] <bddebian> crimsun: Yeah and that's tough even for me.  I don't, no do I want to, know/care much about licensing stuff unfortunately :-(
[10:28] <LaserJock> then any NEW packages that come out of those teams will be easier to handle
[10:28] <LaserJock> I'll give a for instance,
[10:29] <LaserJock> as MOTU Science lead, I'd be willing to review science apps
[10:29] <LaserJock> and I'd be more so if the NEW packages came from the team
[10:29] <LaserJock> bddebian: please do
[10:30] <LaserJock> my problem with REVU is there are a lot of packages and it's rather disorganized
[10:30] <LaserJock> I think reviewers are often spending more time on a package then the packagers
[10:31] <slomo> LaserJock: you should become some kind of MOTU manager... your ideas and thoughts are good :)
[10:31] <LaserJock> slomo: I would be willing to be a part of a MOTU manager team
[10:31] <ajmitch> LaserJock: do it
[10:32] <LaserJock> but I think it's going to kill use if we only look to 1 person to do these things
[10:32] <ajmitch> we don't want rule-by-committee
[10:32] <LaserJock> part of a community volunteer model, IMO, would be having enough redundancy that if a person goes on vacation
[10:32] <LaserJock> or has to work on some RL stuff for a few weeks
[10:32] <LaserJock> everything doesn't fall apart
[10:33] <LaserJock> ajmitch: we are more or less ruled by commitee's, aka CC and TB
[10:34] <LaserJock> but perhaps we need a bit of a sabdfl figure ;-)
[10:34] <ajmitch> LaserJock: do it!
[10:34] <LaserJock> haha
[10:35] <bddebian> Or if we lose them to main, we don't go downhill :)
[10:36] <lophyte> LaserJock: I think it would be beneficial, if this isn't happening already, for MOTU "mentoring" to go a step further than what I've seen, and actually have a MOTU and a newbie sit down together for an hour on IRC or something, and work on the same package
[10:37] <LaserJock> yes, that can be helpful
[10:37] <LaserJock> however
[10:37] <LaserJock> that can lead to a fair amount of time
[10:37] <LaserJock> if we even had 10 MOTUs for that
[10:37] <lophyte> true.. but its time invested in bringing more people in
[10:38] <LaserJock> sure
[10:38] <lophyte> and then those people can train the next wave of hopefuls
[10:38] <LaserJock> but will we really be gaining that much?
[10:38] <LaserJock> if I sit down with someone for 1 hr
[10:38] <LaserJock> and perhaps they get a package done in that time
[10:39] <LaserJock> I haven't magically created a MOTU
[10:39] <crimsun> superm1: uploaded your fix for #737, thanks.
[10:39] <superm1> crimsun, thanks
[10:39] <lophyte> well, no of course not
[10:39] <cbx33> LaserJock, ++
[10:39] <LaserJock> do you think it'd be enough
[10:39] <LaserJock> cbx33 is an exception of course ;-)
[10:39] <crimsun> mentoring is on-going
[10:39] <cbx33> *bah* - i agree with you
[10:39] <lophyte> not for them to be full-fledged MOTUs, no, but it'd be enough to start them in the right direction, rather than being kinda lost
[10:39] <cbx33> lophyte, hmmm
[10:40] <LaserJock> lophyte: ok, but we are all here
[10:40] <nixternal> AND NO I WILL NOT KISS ON THE FIRST DATE!
[10:40] <cbx33> whilst i agree with you in some respects
[10:40] <nixternal> ;D
[10:40] <ajmitch> it only took about about 5-6 years to learn how to package
[10:40] <cbx33> and this is just my opinion here
[10:40] <crimsun> nixternal: I see you've aready hooked up with imbrandon
[10:40] <ajmitch> nixternal: tkae your medicine..
[10:40] <nixternal> whoa whoa
[10:40] <LaserJock> haha
[10:40] <Plug> nixternal: you're going to explode one day, I'm sure of it ;)
[10:40] <nixternal> imbrandon has hooked up with everyone, that cheater ;)
[10:40] <cbx33> but kinda knowing how and where to get the help......is more important than being shown how to pacakge
[10:40] <superm1> haha
[10:41] <nixternal> ajmitch: im waiting for you to ship me a new batch of that medicine ;)
[10:41] <crimsun> lophyte: mentoring is on-going
[10:41] <LaserJock> ok, so here is something we need to also consider
[10:41] <lophyte> I agree
[10:42] <LaserJock> mentoring and MOTU creation seems to be taking a rather large part of our time
[10:42] <nixternal> Plug: i think i already have exploded...now there are bits and pieces of me trying to pick up more stuff ;)
[10:42] <LaserJock> for some MOTUs is virtually all they do
[10:42] <LaserJock> for other not
[10:42] <LaserJock> but the question is, are we being efficient in our efforts
[10:42] <cbx33> LaserJock, whilst i'd love for someone to sit and have someone teach me
[10:42] <Plug> Something I'm not quite sure of - in Debian, its common to become a developer just to package your own stuff
[10:43] <Plug> but if you're a MOTU, it seems you're expected just to be one of the big group working on syncs, etc
[10:43] <cbx33> i think leanring on my own has been a great expereince
[10:43] <Plug> is that because no new development is supposed to happen in Ubuntu - it should be in Debian?
[10:43] <ajmitch> morning Plug
[10:43] <cbx33> brb
[10:43] <ajmitch> Plug: we try & encourage people to get stuff into debian
[10:44] <ajmitch> which a whole other world of pain
[10:44] <LaserJock> Plug: much of that comes from our team maintenance strategy
[10:44] <crimsun> cbx33: one is never confined to the mentoring process. In fact, you would be ideal for mentoring others.
[10:44] <cbx33> crimsun, true....but if I started I'd be worried that I'd rely on the mentoring
[10:44] <ajmitch> I'd love for someone to have taught me :)
[10:44] <cbx33> because I "know it's right"
[10:44] <dholbach> night fellas
[10:44] <crimsun> night daniel
[10:45] <LaserJock> cya dholbach
[10:45] <cbx33> rather than trying and learning from my mistakes ;)
[10:45] <cbx33> and I made a fair few
[10:45] <LaserJock> some people learn differently too
[10:45] <LaserJock> some people only learn by doing it themselves
[10:45] <LaserJock> other's learn by reading a book
[10:45] <dholbach> you guys rock!
[10:45] <crimsun> right, that's the point I'm making. Of course mentoring isn't the only way.
[10:45] <LaserJock> mentoring in a way though can fulfill all that
[10:45] <nixternal> cbx33: i hear you..im sick of NOT learning from my mistakes, and im sick of making mistakes others did when Linux was just a dream ;)
[10:46] <LaserJock> if the mentor identifies the learning still of the mentee and then directs them to the right place
[10:46] <Plug> LaserJock: LaserJock see, I'd be interested in joining MOTU for a small number of packages I maintained, but I'm not sure either how quickly I'd be up to speed, or if I have the time, for the general super syncing/revuing/etc that the wonderful MOTUs here do
[10:46] <LaserJock> Plug: that's fine
[10:46] <LaserJock> we have teams
[10:46] <LaserJock> that's nothing new
[10:47] <LaserJock> ok, so quickly, can we identify a few key problems we are having in MOTU land
[10:48] <LaserJock> I see maybe:
[10:48] <LaserJock> 1) reviewing
[10:49] <LaserJock> 2) lack of prioritized general task lists
[10:49] <LaserJock> 3) people fall throw the cracks too easily
[10:49] <LaserJock> s/throw/through/
[10:49] <ajmitch> (too much crack)
[10:49] <LaserJock> heh
[10:49] <Plug> (plumber's crack)
[10:50] <LaserJock> anybody want to add more?
[10:50] <ajmitch> bad image
[10:50] <ajmitch> people expect MOTUs to 'do it all'
[10:50] <lophyte> I think #2 is a big one, and that might be one of the reasons that hopefuls are discouraged
[10:50] <ajmitch> so that new MOTUs are expected to jump on REVU & start reviewing, for example
[10:51] <crimsun> #2 subsumes #1 and #3
[10:51] <LaserJock> ajmitch: so maybe 4) lack of MOTU definition and skill sets
[10:51] <nixternal> #5 nixternal is always in the way
[10:51] <lophyte> I think the task lists would be a big help...
[10:52] <lophyte> I wanna help, but I'm not exactly sure where or how to help
[10:52] <nixternal> look at lophyte go, he gets a sip of the membership drug on now he is on a rampage ;)
[10:52] <ajmitch> blame me
[10:52] <lophyte> I was told to play around with Edgy packages w/unmet deps and try to fix them, but I'm not exactly sure how.. that's the problem for me
[10:52] <ajmitch> I was meant to setup the merge list but didn't get to it
[10:52] <Plug> ajmitch: you do far too much already.  lets blame someone else for a change! :)
[10:53] <ajmitch> Plug: no, I barely do anything
[10:53] <lophyte> nixternal: nah, I've been a bit involved with MOTU.. just been busy lately :P
[10:53] <LaserJock>  ajmitch I think that's a symptom, but not the problem ;-)
[10:53] <Plug> you had me fooled
[10:53] <superm1> so when you guys are saying task lists - why not integrate more into REVU, its a good central location?  Like a page listing all bugs with MOTU on the list to CC or assign to?
[10:54] <LaserJock> superm1: because we are trying to move to LP
[10:54] <superm1> oic
[10:54] <LaserJock> we actually did have a nice task list python script on revu for merge/sync for dapper
[10:54] <bddebian> Yeah
[10:54] <ajmitch> LaserJock: what I was talking about ~2 min ago
[10:55] <LaserJock> I know
[10:55] <bddebian> ajmitch: Who needs to teach you, when you already know everything? :)
[10:55] <ajmitch> bddebian: I said taught, and I don't know everything
[10:56] <LaserJock> ok, how's this for a plan:
[10:57] <LaserJock> I'll try to take on an interim role of MOTU manager, work up (with help ;-) ) some stuff on identifying problems and solutions, maybe talk with jono a bit
[10:57] <LaserJock> and by UDS Mountain View have an actionable plan
[10:58] <ajmitch> ah, LaserJock the MOTU celebrity
[10:58] <LaserJock> I sooo don't want that
[10:58] <crimsun> we can set priorities based on the release cycle. At the beginning of the release cycle, we need to focus on: 1), 2), 3) in descending priority. After autosync stops, we shift to this order: 2), 3), 1). After main UVF, we shift to ... After upstream UVF, we shift to... and so on.
[10:58] <LaserJock> yep
[10:58] <ajmitch> crimsun: yes, I was thinking of writing up a general release schedule earlier
[10:58] <ajmitch> 'earlier' only being about 2 hours ago :)
[10:59] <LaserJock> I think it's most confusing for people when they come in mid release
[10:59] <lophyte> that's me
[10:59] <lophyte> :P
[10:59] <LaserJock> once you've seen it done once, you get a feel for it, IMO
[10:59] <LaserJock> I doubt the old
[10:59] <LaserJock> but I'm sure you're right about the rest ;-)
[10:59] <ajmitch> thanks
[11:00] <LaserJock> haha
[11:00] <lophyte> is there anywhere in particular that I could help out with?
[11:00] <LaserJock> fix bugs
[11:00] <LaserJock> ;-)
[11:01] <LaserJock> that's the usual line
[11:01] <superm1> oh thats what they always say around here....
[11:01] <LaserJock> it'd be nice to turn that into something more helpful
[11:02] <ajmitch> with ~16K bugs open, it's a bit hard to point at some & say go for it
[11:02] <lophyte> so just pick one and go for it?
[11:02] <ajmitch> I just end up selecting things I know about & want working
[11:02] <LaserJock> teams
[11:02] <geser> lophyte: I've started with looking at packages with unmet deps (apt-cache unmet -i)
[11:02] <Plug> ajmitch: is it your birthday?
[11:03] <LaserJock> I really think it might be the way to go
[11:03] <ajmitch> Plug: out by several months
[11:03] <lophyte> geser: yeah, that's where I was told to start.. but a lot of them I couldn't figure out
[11:03] <Plug> people normally feel most old & cynical on their birthday :)
[11:03] <LaserJock> lophyte: did you ask about them in here?
[11:03] <ajmitch> Plug: then every day is my birthday!
[11:03] <crimsun> lophyte: perhaps you can work w/ geser (if he's willing to mentor you)
[11:03] <lophyte> hmm.. no.. I didn't, actually
[11:03] <ajmitch> aren't I lucky? :)
[11:03] <Plug> every day is a winding road
[11:04] <LaserJock> lophyte: we can't help if you don't ask ;-)
[11:04] <lophyte> good point :P
[11:04] <LaserJock> and mine has derailed
[11:04] <lophyte> geser: would you mind working with me on that?
[11:04] <ajmitch> I don't think people would want me mentoring them
[11:05] <geser> lophyte: I will help you
[11:05] <LaserJock> ajmitch: you can be the MOTU QA, making sure these silly Hopefuls are in line ;-)
[11:05] <ajmitch> I'll scare too many away
[11:06] <LaserJock> np, as long as the ones that stay sign over their life to MOTU
[11:06] <ajmitch> Plug: ready to sign?
[11:06] <lophyte> geser: cool :)
[11:07] <geser> lophyte: packages still depending on gnustep-back0.10 should be easy once gnustep-back0.11 is there (see bug 63839 for an overlook about the gnustep situation)
[11:07] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 63839 in gnustep-make "[UVF Exception]  Sync to gnustep-make 1.13.0-1 from Debian unstable" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63839
[11:08] <superm1> lophyte, I'll work at helping resolve unmet deps too
[11:08] <lophyte> superm1: cool
[11:08] <superm1> i'm sure we can make that list very small in a week or two
[11:08] <lophyte> we can be the unmet deps team or something :P
[11:08] <superm1> hehe
[11:09] <ajmitch> geser: sounds like a tangle of dependencies
[11:09] <ajmitch> resolving unmet deps is nearly always just a rebuild
[11:09] <ajmitch> last time I went through the whole list & threw them all at pbuilder to see what broke
[11:09] <lophyte> speaking of which...
[11:09] <lophyte> where do we toss the fixed packages?
[11:10] <superm1> attach debdiffs to bugs
[11:10] <lophyte> ah, alright
[11:10] <ajmitch> oh goody, I still have the script to automate the build
[11:10] <LaserJock> ok, well I think I'm off
[11:10] <superm1> cya LaserJock
[11:10] <LaserJock> I wasn't supposed to get on IRC today
[11:11] <LaserJock> and now I've 2 hrs past lunch
[11:11] <LaserJock> *I'm
[11:11] <LaserJock> I'll try to work up some stuff from our conversation
[11:12] <LaserJock> thanks for the input lophyte geser superm1 et al.
[11:14] <ajmitch> heh
[11:14] <ajmitch> irc addicts...
[11:16] <geser> while looking at the unmet deps list, are packages which aren't build from source anymore removed (semi-)automatically?
[11:17] <bddebian> Sorry, vacuuming, can you all start all over? ;-P
[11:17] <Plug> ajmitch: what am I signing?
[11:17] <ajmitch> Plug: your life over to MOTU
[11:18] <bddebian> heh
[11:18] <Plug> maaaaaaaaaaybe
[11:18] <Plug> I have to ask too many quesitons of too many people atm.  I don't mind packaging but I dont like programming or Autoconf ;)
[11:18] <superm1> ajmitch, when you finish up that unmet dep list, can you most it somewhere so we know whats really broken without having to do our own large pbuilder runs?
[11:18] <geser> while looking at the unmet deps list, are packages which aren't build from source anymore removed (semi-)automatically?
[11:18] <lophyte> question...
[11:18] <bddebian> geser: no, they need to be requested to be removed afaik
[11:19] <lophyte> er, nm
[11:20] <ajmitch> superm1: sure
[11:20] <lophyte> I'm looking at the first on the list.. postgresql-8.0-pljava-gcj
[11:20] <ajmitch> :0:> wc -l unmet.edgy.20061003
[11:20] <ajmitch> 178 unmet.edgy.20061003
[11:20] <ajmitch> any bets on how long it'll take me to rebuild those?
[11:20] <superm1> woah
[11:21] <superm1> u have several build boxes i hope :)
[11:21] <lophyte> or not
[11:21] <lophyte> :P
[11:21] <sivang> ajmitch: need a hand with the unmet deps stuff?
[11:21] <ajmitch> superm1: just one
[11:21] <superm1> well i'm going to be gone for the night, if you want to distribute your script, we can all run portions of the list
[11:21] <lophyte> okay, so once we have a really-broken list from ajmitch.. shall we start then?
[11:21] <superm1> and report back the results
[11:21] <ajmitch> superm1: it should be done in a few hours :)
[11:22] <ajmitch> sivang: everyone will need to be fixing packages
[11:22] <geser> lophyte: when you look https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+source/postgresql-pljava you will see that  postgresql-8.0-pljava-gcj isn't build from this source anymore
[11:22] <superm1> Ok, i'm running off to dinner.  i'll catch up with you guys later tonite in that case.
[11:22] <ajmitch> I'll need to rewrite my script to handle my new pbuilder config
[11:23] <lophyte> geser: ahh.. its 8.1 now
[11:23] <geser> lophyte:  postgresql-8.0-pljava-gcj was build from this source package in dapper
[11:23] <lophyte> I see
[11:23] <sivang> ajmitch: where's the list posted?
[11:24] <lophyte> geser: so what happens to the 8.0 package, then?
[11:24] <lophyte> does someone need to remove it?
[11:26] <geser> as far as I see it yes, but I'm hestitant to request removal of packages
[11:26] <lophyte> ah
[11:27] <lophyte> ajmitch: are you gonna post up that list of broken packages when you're done?
[11:27] <geser> I didn't find out the right procedure yet
[11:28] <ajmitch> lophyte: sure
[11:28] <ajmitch> sivang: not there yet, be patient
[11:28] <lophyte> ajmitch: cool
[11:28] <lophyte> I'll be back shortly
[11:28] <sivang> ajmitch: sorry, was just asking
[11:35] <ajmitch> heh
[11:36] <ajmitch> "Continued failure to grasp simple boolean logic. Pick up a penalty card.
[11:36] <ajmitch> "