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zul@schedule montreal01:54
UbugtuSchedule for America/Montreal: 04 Oct 08:00: Edubuntu | 05 Oct 03:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 05 Oct 17:00: Kubuntu | 10 Oct 16:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 16:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team01:54
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=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Edubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 05 Oct 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 05 Oct 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 10 Oct 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 11 Oct 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
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RichEdhello ... coffee ... back in a flash01:58
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ogrado we have quorum for EC ?02:04
ogra(doesnt look like)02:04
=== ogra counts two EC members
ograone more and we can make decisions :)02:05
=== ogra waits for others to show up ...
highvoltagejsgotango is having connectivity problems after their bad weather02:05
highvoltageand LaserJock is probably sleeping?02:06
=== cbx33 makes himself honerary EC member ;)
cbx33damn it I can't even spell02:06
ograsad, it would be nice if we could approve sbalneav ... 02:08
ograand willvdl 02:08
highvoltagerodarvus: cool hair02:08
rodarvusogra: I'll approve sbalneav and willvdl, let me just hack your LP account02:08
ograbut they both havent added themselves to the agenda anyway02:08
rodarvushighvoltage, those are not hair but evil wings ;)02:08
highvoltageI wish they would02:08
rodarvusargh, not wings, horns02:09
highvoltagerodarvus: they look cool nontheless :)02:09
ograand RichEd is also outstanding ...02:10
highvoltagesbalneav is probably also sleeping, so it would probably suite him better to go for membership at the 20:00 meeting.02:10
ograwell, jammcq just showed up in #ltsp 02:10
rodarvusJaneW once mentioned passing her EC membership to RichEd, do we have any news on this subject?02:10
ogramigth be sbalneav shows up during the meeting, they share the same TZ02:10
rodarvus(or if something like this is going to happen any time in the future)02:10
ograrodarvus, thast something the EC should vote on ... and RichEd needs to be member first02:11
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RichEdrodarvus: I'm applying through the normal channels ... don't want to do any family pass the baton ...02:11
ograi'm not opposed to you taking that over, but we need an EC vote for it i assume02:11
ograand indeed membership is a requirement02:11
=== sivang is here as an observer
rodarvusRichEd, the fact that you two are on the same family is not relevant to what I'm saying, actually. I'm mentioning you because you are Education Manager at Canonical, and thus, on a position where you spend 100% of your work time on related subjects02:12
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RichEdyes ... but to avoid any "favouritism becuase he is sleeping with the other communtiy member" I'd rather apply normally and disjointed from JaneW02:12
willvdland me because I'm special02:12
rodarvusbut of course, I don't want it to be --forced, I'd like to see this voted through EC02:12
willvdland bigger than you02:13
RichEdI'll call JaneW now to see what her thoughts are on keeping or resigning ... will let you know ...02:13
highvoltagerodarvus, RichEd: rest assured, we will do everything properly, I think it's only natural for RichEd to be EC, but we will follow the proper procedures to make sure it happenens properly02:13
ograto sad she cant come ... we'd have quorum then ;)02:14
RichEdLet's postpone the EC until the top of the hour and see if we have any sign of LaserJock or others.02:14
rodarvushighvoltage, exactly02:14
highvoltagethe problem is that JaneW can't make the meeting anymore because of her new job, and making the meetings is a bit of a requirement, no?02:14
rodarvusI don't expect LaserJock to come, I think his timezone is UTC-7 or such02:14
highvoltageogra: could she vote by e-mail?02:14
RichEdCan someone give me a web service irc link and I can get her to try that now ?02:14
ograwe could do a pre-votin now02:14
rodarvus(aka, about 5:14 AM there ;) )02:15
Fujitsurodarvus, yeah, about that, he's well and truly asleep :)02:15
ograRichEd --> cbx33 should be able02:15
ograrodarvus, thast why we have 5 members ;)02:15
willvdlI've been looking into that with no luck02:15
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cbx33willvdl what was that one you found yesterday02:16
cbx33sorry monday02:16
willvdlfreenode seems to ban the public cgi:irc channels so you need your own server02:16
willvdlcbx33, they didn't work.02:16
cbx33unfortunately the person who I use this one from would repfer if I didn;t tell anyone the address, they have limited server bandwidth02:17
cbx33I used to have my own but my new server company dissallows it02:17
cbx33is there any possibility of getting one set up02:17
RichEdokay ... let me call JaneW and see if she can respond to an email voting request ...02:17
RichEdogra: do you want to do tech in the meanwhile ?02:17
willvdlwant to try ssh port forwarding02:18
ograthere is not much on the plate for tech02:18
cbx33willvdl: that's against TOS here :(02:18
=== highvoltage organises a cgi irc service quickly
ograbeta is out ... i sent testing procedures to -devel for it 02:18
cbx33highvoltage: you rock02:18
rodarvuswillvdl, ask elmo to see if he can setup cgi:irc for you (maybe on a temporary fashion)02:18
ograi have some outstanding issues on my plate:02:18
=== rodarvus raises his hand to talk after ogra
ograldm switches to console before switching to X ... thats a moinor uglyness i have a patch for already02:19
willvdlbrill. HP needs it internally02:20
ograthe installer was set to always set edubuntu as hostname at one time, i want to revert it and make it a user choice, but Kamion asked me to first inspect why we did it first place ...02:20
ograthats on my todo (lots of log diggin)02:20
ograthe german translation for the console mode in the installer defaults to "install a server" in the translation02:21
highvoltageCGI-IRC for #ubuntu-meeting: http://duke.za.net/cgi-bin/cgiirc/irc.cgi02:21
ogra(which is totally wrong indeed)02:21
=== highvoltage tests
ograapart from that a pessulus/SCP fix is waiting ...02:21
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cbx33pessulus is patched02:21
cbx33SCP is waiting for you to patch with the line I gave you02:22
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ogradid you send me the SCP pastch already ?02:22
=== ogra look through mail
cbx33and we just need the gconf patch after that which seb128 is going to do02:22
cbx33ogra: the tiny tiny one02:22
ograyes, i remember it ... must be in my mail somewhere02:22
ograi think thats it ...02:23
cbx33ogra: ok I'll leave that one with you02:23
ograwhat i didnt test yet is upgradeability from dapper ... for ltsp02:23
cbx33it's a /user/  -   /" + user + "/ replacement02:23
ograthats on my list for this weekend (have no dapper around currently)02:23
cbx33soemthing like that02:23
cbx33hmmm I have a dapper02:23
cbx33want me to upgrade it at somepoint?02:23
ograwould be cool to know if that works ...02:24
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ogra(without regenerating the chroot, but upgrading it)02:24
cbx33ogra: so I upgrade one the nthe other?02:24
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cbx33want me to do it today or tomorrow?02:24
ograas you have time ... i just need to know about upgrade bugs before RC02:25
cbx33well tomorrow will be better02:25
cbx33as I said I'm off home soon02:25
=== rodarvus raises his hand t(different subject)
ograapart from that, the kalzium issue seems gotten more quiet again ...02:26
ograRiddell wanted to invite the kdeedu coordinator to MV02:26
ograso we can talk about such stuff in person there02:27
RiddellI don't know if she can come, she's still investigating02:27
ograi think thats it from my side about tech ... 02:27
ograrodarvus, ?02:27
rodarvusWhat I'm going to talk is not news, but its important we all are fully aware of this as soon as possible.02:27
rodarvusNext month we'll be holding the next Ubuntu Developers Summit, on Mountain View.02:27
rodarvusI'd like to ask *everyone* to take some moments/hours to think about the features they like to see worked on during edgy+1 development cycle, and add them to the spec list for discussion. (here -> https://features.launchpad.net/)02:27
rodarvus*NOW*  is the right time to start writing down the features you'd like to see implemented. Please plan how much time you'll be able to donate to Edubuntu for the next development cycle, and plan what you'll be doing accordingly. If you need any help with that, please do not hesitate contacting us on #edubuntu.02:27
rodarvusFinally, when adding new specifications to features.launchpad.net, don't forget marking it for discussion on 'UDS Mountain View', so it gets a chance at being discussed there.02:27
=== rodarvus was holding the enter key for a few minutes ;)
ograright 02:28
ograi can give a shoprt list for edubuntu/ltsp stuff i plan02:28
ogra- ldap/kerberos server 02:29
ogra- CD writing on clients02:29
rodarvus*cough* avahi *chough*02:29
ogra- mic input and volume control on clients02:29
RichEdJaneW is trying the web 'face and if not, will vote via email.02:29
ogra- more output in the ltsp installer part02:29
sivangogra: that mesan libburn first :-)02:29
ograthats what i'm planning02:29
ograsivang, right ...02:30
ograthats why i hope pygi can come to MV02:30
rodarvuswould you like to consider moving Edubuntu installation to the Live CD? (I mean, at least have a session on this subject at MV)02:30
cbx33pygi isn't here at the moment and won't be for a while will he02:30
cbx33he's without net for like 2 months02:30
ograbut i didnt hear back yet about sopnsorships and who has his invitation mails ...02:30
sivangcbx33: he said he'll be checking emails02:30
cbx33ah ok02:30
sivangogra: I hope we can do some libburn specification from remote02:30
ogra(and that rather belongs to the community topic02:31
rodarvusogra, I'd like to have a session on this subject, and also (with you and RichEd, if he confirms his tickets for UDS) about the "extra cd on top of ubuntu" idea02:32
ograsivang, pygi was suggested for sponsoring, but i havent heard back yet ...02:32
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ograrodarvus, right02:32
=== highvoltage hugs JaneW
ograJaneW, !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!02:32
cbx33ogra: mails for sponsorship have gone out02:32
cbx33JaneW: 02:32
=== ogra hugs JaneW
=== cbx33 gives JaneW a big hug
rodarvushi JaneW!02:32
=== RichEd hugs janeW
sivangogra: ah I see, so I guess he will be there if he realizes he got the email02:33
cbx33sivang: heheh02:33
sivangI suggest someone calling him if has his phone number02:33
cbx33oooh i have his phone02:33
cbx33I'll just txt him02:33
RichEdrodarvus: I'm in ... we need to chat to Matt as well ... Mark was not opposed to the idea (yesterday) but wants to make sure that our upstream is happy with the concept.02:34
sivangcbx33: thank you :)02:34
sivangRichEd: is this about libburn ?02:34
ograrodarvus, i'll only vote for it if i dont have to do additional 48h shifts for testing02:35
RichEdsivang: nope about "seeing Edubuntu as an add-on pack install on top of a standard Ubuntu install base"02:35
sivangRichEd: ah, I see. sorry for getting into the discussion then, opps :-/02:36
ograit will require us to start testing of milestones a week before instead of two / three days (and nights)02:36
rodarvusogra, yes, thats why it needs discussion. Overloading you is *really* not on the plans :)02:36
=== cbx33 is up for testing
ograRichEd, eeek02:36
RichEdnote the "apostrophes" this is just a suggestion and we need to assess impact !02:36
ograRichEd, that wont work, we need the install CD in any case02:36
ograsince we do some special stuff with the installer02:37
ograbut i'm not opposed to a second CD 02:37
ograif i'm not the only one who is qable to build/change and test it02:37
RichEdyes ... there would still be a single CD edition of Edubuntu ... with the Ubuntu base and Edubuntu add-on pack shipping as an easy install02:37
ograand a add on CD ... for extra SW02:38
willvdlI don't get it. a one CD and a two CD version?02:38
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ograi'm not sure d-i is intelligent enough to work with only one CD then 02:38
ograafaik you cant force any packages onto one of the CDs02:38
ograso it will ask for the second CD if a package isnt on the first02:39
ograwhich could break installs if you dont have the second one02:39
RichEdwillvdl: conceptually - Edubuntu Desktop Edition = ubuntu base install package + edubuntu desktop add-on02:39
ograbut Kamion is surely the better guy to explain the capabilities02:39
RichEdwillvdl: conceptually - Edubuntu Server Edition = ubuntu base install package + edubuntu LTSP add-on02:39
ograwell, no need to split server/desktop02:40
ograthe server parts are minor (space wise)02:40
RichEdFor space ? Otherwise we are back to the 1CD problem ?02:40
highvoltageyou would be able to fit on a lot of edubuntu on one cd, if edubuntu itself was an add-on to Ubuntu. the problem is that you loose the turn-key factor :/02:40
ograi'd rather say base CD for server/workstation install (as we have it now) and add on CD for additional software02:40
RichEdThat's why we are saying that there should still be the turnkey "Edubuntu product CD"02:41
=== highvoltage nods
ograbut please dont make two installer CDs02:41
ograthast not doable from a tester perspective02:41
RichEdBut conceptually, to separate them. also in the mind of the user ... so that there is an undertsnading that we have an ubuntu base.02:42
rodarvuslets discuss this outside the meeting, please :)02:42
ograthe CD as we have it now is fine ... lets just move some parts over to the second one in favor of language packs on the first CD02:42
ograRichEd, i dont think there is do8ubt of our ubuntu base on the user side02:42
RichEdrodarvus: fine ... just allaying fears of any attempt to force a decision ... we are raising a topic, not making a change.02:42
rodarvusRichEd, exactly02:43
rodarvuswell said02:43
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ograbut dont raise the requirement of manpower for the first CD please ...02:43
ograadd-on is fine02:43
willvdlon the subject of language packs, do we officially support mozilla (firefox) language packs?02:43
ograok, tech done ?02:43
RichEdogra: all your concerns will be on the table :) that's why we have & respect your expertise :)02:43
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highvoltageogra: one thing on tech02:44
ograwillvdl, they are required by the langpacks, yes02:44
willvdland locale switching?02:44
highvoltageI wanted to bring this up last time, but ran out of time02:44
ograwillvdl, thats why i vote for xulrunner inclusion since dapper02:44
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ograhighvoltage, shoot02:44
highvoltageogra: for testing, what can we do to take load off of you?02:44
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highvoltageI'm having trouble testing myself because of lack of bandwidth, but there are many people out there that are willing to test.02:45
ograhighvoltage, be aware of the release schedule, have spare HW to test 02:45
ograand keep your isos up to date (rsync daily with a cron script)02:45
ogratwo or three days before a scheduled milestone start testing and report bugs02:46
ograthats simply it ...02:46
highvoltageok, so we'll work around milestones?02:46
ograpips1 was a big help for beta ... 02:47
highvoltageok, np. great.02:47
highvoltageJaneW_: ping02:47
ograhighvoltage, well, milestones, beta and RC ... as well as the final release02:47
cbx33I'll test the dapper -> edgy upgrade02:47
ogra(everything that talks about CD in the release schedule is valiud)02:47
ograand testing the final Cd needs indeed the most effort02:48
ogra(i usually test everything twice there at least)02:49
highvoltageok, it seems like October 18/19 will be critical times for testing. we can work around that then.02:49
ograthat would be a major help02:49
=== cbx33 will do my usualy all night install test ;)
ograrodarvus, it would also be nice if you were able to do CD builds etc in an emergency (i.e. i get hit by the potential bus) we should see that we get you up to speed for edgy+1 on that02:50
rodarvusogra, yes, I'd like to be up to date on this02:50
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rodarvusactually I planned to spend some hours learning how to do that on Wiesbaden, but due to, hmm, some circunstances, I was unable :)02:51
ogralets do it in MV then :)02:51
ograits easy ...02:51
ograouch ... evil JaneW ... already approved RichEd 02:52
rodarvusI'd like to do one or two milestone cds for edubuntu on edgy+1 too02:52
rodarvus(when the new name is going to be public? :D )02:52
ograrodarvus, that'd be really cool, seems i'll be travelling a lot next release02:53
=== RichEd has signed code of conduct, applied for membership, created a wiki page with contributions
rodarvusanyhow, were are we on the meeting, I'm lost?02:53
=== RichEd is now retroactively adding himself to the agenda
ogradocumentation :02:53
ograanyone up for some doc talk ?02:54
cbx33I've done SCP docs02:54
cbx33will put them up on the wi8ki02:54
ogracool !02:54
RichEdthis section is now : documentation techical :)02:54
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ograwe should have a help button in edgy+1 ;)02:54
ograand yelped docs ....02:54
ografor now wiki will do (unless half done docs get synced to help.ubuntu.com again like the ltsp multiarch one)02:55
ograRichEd, we'll do EC at the end (usually)02:55
RichEdogra : great :) tx02:56
ograanything else for docs ?02:57
ogratech docs, sorry :)02:57
RichEdogra: perhaps explain about LTSP and sbalneaves helping us out there ? just to get the group informed ?02:58
=== ogra copy pastes
ogra<ogra> sbalneav is working on that02:58
ogra<ogra> ltsp.org will also soon have our docs02:58
ogra<ogra> and we'll have theirs 02:58
ogra<ogra> he's merging them02:58
ograas you probablky might have seen in the beta announcement, we're allowed to call our ltsp the ltsp 5 prerelease in edgy ;)02:59
RichEdSo we'll have the best LTSP documentation, direct from the source :)02:59
ograjammcq explicitly approved that 02:59
RichEdWe'll make sure that it is in form that can be integrated into the cookbook / handbook.03:00
RichEdSpeaking of which, Hedgemage has given me pre-warning that her days as a Cookbook leader are numbered.03:00
ograwill she vaniush completely ?03:01
RichEdShe feels it is time to pass the baton to fresh blood, and she wants to move back into more dev work. 03:01
ograshe wanted to move on to development once she drops docs she said ...03:01
ograYAY !03:01
RichEdShe will still be a strong Edubuntu community member, just wants to change her badge.03:01
=== ogra is looking forward to that
ograyep, she talked about it before03:01
RichEd(She is also helping pips1 and myself with drupal skills for the "education user community space")03:02
ograbut with pygi moving on to more ltsp stuff and her moving on to development in general out doc team is quite dead03:02
ograwe'll need fresh blood03:02
cbx33right I'm off see ya later guys03:02
RichEdSo we have a general call for anyone who feels inspired to get invovled with documentation !03:03
ograprobably a point we should raise with the k21 guys03:03
RichEdWe can send a mail to the list, and post an announcement, and make use oour blogging people to put the word out.03:03
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highvoltageNuffing: ping03:03
ogra(sorry there is a drill rumbling near my left ear, my concentration is dropping a bit)03:03
willvdlI'm keen to look into docs but will need to brush up some skills03:03
RichEd*of our03:03
RichEdCan I suggest then Will that you offer to be the Doc team Project Manager ? and then we look for people to assist ?03:04
highvoltageNuffing: if you can read this, but can't reply, please stand by, we might have to accept your answer via e-mail03:04
willvdlRichEd, I'll need to spend some time on the process and platform but I could I suppose03:05
RichEdIt will be a big help if we have one head (brain) looking at all documentation ... with the handbook being a sub-section. We can then get a clearer view and cohesive material.03:05
RichEdi.e. across web, & print, and handbook ...etc.03:06
rodarvusRichEd, willvdl: that would be *great*!03:06
RichEdNote that for web, pips1 and I would do the majority of the work, it would require Will to manage the cohesion, not put in the edit time.03:06
ografrom JaneW by mail: Sorry I 'approved' RichEd's member status with a proviso note saying pending EC majority vote. It was the only way I could see to show my vote without having IRC access. I can not connect properly but seem to be getting 20 lines of text retrospectively and then disconnecting.03:07
highvoltageRichEd: that sounds good03:07
ograPlease over-rule my approval as required.03:07
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RichEdSame thing for the handbook ... Will you and I can take it offline for when you get back to Cape Town.03:07
highvoltagecrazypurple: we received your message sent to ogra, thanks03:08
highvoltageogra: over-rule?03:08
ograhighvoltage, if its required, yes :)03:09
highvoltageok. I don't know what it means :)03:09
highvoltageoh ok, nm!03:09
ograwe are allowed to revert it if needed03:09
highvoltagecut and paste it in teh notepad03:10
highvoltageheh, sorry, that was supposed to be a joke in another channel03:10
=== highvoltage blushes
ograare we done with tech/doc ?03:11
ograartwokr !03:11
ogra(or art work)03:11
willvdlthe art of woks03:11
ogracbx33 is gone ... but i got the last piece for the usplash ... yesterday ...03:12
ogradid everybody see the new artwork in edgy already ?03:12
willvdlhaven't had a chance yet03:13
willvdljust bits03:13
ograi'll do some screenshots before the next meeting03:13
ograits pertty consistent ... everything fits this time ... 03:13
ograand we turn quite yellow this time03:13
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willvdlyellow = colour of intelligence03:14
ograand it doesnt look as young as the last ones03:14
highvoltagewillvdl: like a 7-11?03:14
willvdlthey're green & yellow03:14
ograi.e. it will fit for most ages 03:14
ograi'd say 7-18 for the default ...03:14
willvdlogra,what are the icons like?03:15
ogra(i'm working daily with it and it doesnt feel disturbing)03:15
ograthe ones we always used ... there were no changes in the icons03:15
highvoltageogra: still gartoon, right?03:15
RichEdwe've already had this positive feedback on the mail list: The new wallpaper is more suitable for "older" students. Also the login- and the logout-sound is a ear candy.03:15
highvoltagecbx33++ :)03:15
ogramany thanks to cbx33 :)03:15
ograande aliasVegas indeed03:16
ograbut we'll need a bigger artteam in edgy+103:16
ograwe cant put everything on their sholders03:16
willvdlyeah, we spoke about this last week03:16
RichEdAnd not to forget: It is now very comfortable to use the local devices of a client, especially usb-sticks. Thanks for the work, specially for ltsp-work03:16
RichEdogra: pete and lisa and I are discussing a larger team03:16
RichEdwe raised it at the meeting, and also have had quite a detailed offline discussion.03:17
ograthat and the doc team need a lot of care taking in edgy+103:17
RichEdTo summarise briefly:03:17
ograthe dev side seems to grow on its own now ...03:17
RichEdWe proposed making Lisas role "Education Art Director" - the coordinator across Web & Wiki & Community & OS03:18
RichEdi.e. responsible for a consistent look & feel across the whole experience03:19
ograbut dont forget we'll need a team first for a team lead ;)03:19
RichEdWe then need to rectruit for biger community.03:19
RichEd*recruit * bigger03:19
ograi'm setting my hopes into k12 people that might consider coming over or joining efforts03:19
highvoltageI believe that is likely to happen.03:20
ograi hope so03:20
RichEdNote that recruitement is an important part of the End User Community Space goals ! 03:20
RichEdPete said to me last week that even Lisa says she does not understand most of what we are talking about in the meetings ...03:21
ograwell, she can run her own artteam meeting if she likes :)03:21
ograand just paste a link to the outcome here :)03:21
RichEdWe need a space for people who are "afraid of technical stuff / people" but who still have great skills to offer.03:21
willvdlat the risk of diluting our channels03:22
RichEdSo it is not only a community space to serve thier needs, but also to act as a space for us to interact with the "human beings".03:22
ograwe're to small yet to make a big split03:22
ograelse i'd vote for an edubuntu-artwork ML03:22
ograbut for now the -users list should do03:23
RichEdI don't expect the techncial people here to go anywhere ! I see myself as standing with one leg on each side of the divide ... with tech people as we have at the moment, and people like Lisa and the end users on the other side.03:23
RichEdWe must not do anything to dilute the spirit and energy that is here. That is a fundamental given.03:24
ograif we *have* a team we should also have a channel and a mailing list for them 03:24
ograbut for now i think its better to keep them in one place still03:24
RichEdYep. I am working on making the new space and interfaces. We must not use the new until the all the benefits of the existing can be linked in and supported.03:25
ogralook at the edubuntu-es/-de channels they are unused ... we did it in the wrong order03:25
ograsame for the edubuntu-es ML i think03:25
RichEdI've created a new channel for general education discussions: #ubuntu-education03:25
highvoltageaccording to mhz edubuntu-es has quite a strong community behind it, although I must admit I don't know what's happening on the -es mailing list03:26
RichEdWhere we can have the non-technical people feeling free to chat ... but will not move any of our existing stuff there.03:26
rodarvushighvoltage, non technical people are just not fond of mailing lists.03:26
RichEdrodarvus: yep ... that's been a big topic of debate03:27
rodarvusthey just have a different culture03:27
highvoltagerodarvus: true.03:27
ograhighvoltage, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-devel-es/ looks like there are only 5 ppl posting at all03:27
ograand its nearly a year old03:27
RichEdthat's why we will probably be going with drupal for the user space ... forums are more the novice user style03:27
ogra#edubuntu-de has nearly turned into my private chatroom03:28
highvoltagepity pips1 isn't here today03:28
ograso lets not split the community premature03:28
RichEdpips1 is on leave with his wife, but he has being doing some sterling research.03:28
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RichEdHe was at a general "Education Conference" last week, and has been looking at communities very seriously, and in depth.03:29
RichEdSo we will:03:29
RichEd1. NOT dilute the enrgy and people here03:29
RichEd2. NOT replace anything here unless it is proved better03:29
RichEd3. NOT make bold announcements until we have actual traffic and real people supporting us03:30
ogra4. not split until we have some momentum ?03:30
RichEdAnd all final decisions will be decided by the edubuntu meeting ... there is no unilateral action :)03:30
finalbetaEspecially for graphics people, forums are more there way of doing things. beter integration of the community forums with groups. forums for art team or something, where they can organise contests. Will get people that normally are not involved, involved. Just a wild idea tho. 03:30
RichEdHedgemage also has a lot of FOSS and Education experience, and has:03:31
RichEd1. drupal skills03:31
ograwell, the ubuntu/kubuntu/xubuntu artteams operate only via the ubuntu-art ML03:31
RichEd2. sensitivity to the tech personality profile and the user personality profile03:31
RichEdand 3. knows of how not to do it from some train smashes she has witnessed03:32
RichEd:) So there is a wide and varied and considered input before action.03:32
ograit would be cool to have a forum gateway for tech issues to the edubuntu-devel list03:32
ograso support could be given through the ML ... and we dont have weird workarounds in the forumks like in the ubuntu forums03:33
ograsince most developers wont read forums03:33
RichEdogra, we can look at that for sure. bridges between the two worlds will make it easier03:33
finalbetaTo me, the forums seems to be where you can best attract people to other concepts, like mailing lists. (since it is the first place users go when the get involved)03:33
willvdland if you're looking for a solution that has been solved03:34
RichEdYep. The habit of the newbie users seem to be: browse the forums anonymously, lok for answers, post queastions only when comfortable03:34
ografinalbeta, yep, i agree, but the fact that most devs dont read forums and most users do brings up weird solutions that can be avoided by getting the dev expetise into the forums somehow ...03:34
RichEd*look *questions03:34
ograa forum/ML GW is one way to solve that03:34
RichEdWe are also looking at a model where the users can debate in loose language ... and a moderator looks for good solutions which then become sticky posts, and make their way across to the wiki pages for FAQs.03:35
RichEdThe GW ogra suggests will help with that. Even if ogra say corrects to me via email, and I then go fix the forum.03:36
RichEdSo we preserve quality and accuracy from 100% accurate core (www.ubuntu.com www.edubuntu.org) outwards through wiki towards user space03:37
RichEdWe know the user space will not be 100% accurate ... but we will reference only the www and wiki as officialy approved information03:38
ograwe're 40 mins over time ... and somehow slipped from art into community :)03:38
ogra(just a reminder)03:38
RichEdIt was a more or less natural shift. And I think we are more or less done with both ?03:39
ograme too03:39
ograManagement and Planning ?03:39
RichEdAnd Management is really about moving this stuff forwards. To avoid repeating, I'll give you the links on the wiki.03:40
RichEdhttps://wiki.edubuntu.org/education/planning <- this is the start of the plannig exercise ...03:40
ograhighvoltage, next meeting is no EC meeting ;)03:41
RichEdA lot of it is draft, and incomplete, but it is being used as a living document as we buld the actual resources.03:41
yarddogi am yarddog, and i would like introduce myself, i have started a new ubuntu irc channel in #ubuntu-newmexico, i look forward to sharing any info in this group. thanks.03:41
RichEdGreat yarddog : pop me an email riched@edubuntu.com03:41
highvoltageogra: right :)03:42
highvoltageyarddog: great to meet you :)03:42
RichEdComments welcome at any stage ... volunteers also.03:42
RichEdI'm also pulling together a page of all the potential resources we have available: wiki, web, mail lists, forums, bloggers etc.03:43
ograok, are we dont with the general agenda ?03:43
RichEdlocos etc.03:43
ogra(can we move on to Edubuntu Council stuff ?)03:44
RichEdYep. I'm done.03:44
yarddogRichEd, sent03:45
RichEdthanks yarddog :)03:45
ograok, we have one applicant on the meeting agenda 03:45
ograRichEd, please introduce yourself with a three liner :)03:45
RichEdRichard Weideman: Education Programme Manager : Appointed by Mark July 12 - Full Time Canonical Employee03:46
RichEdRole: 1st line contact for all Education issues across all Ubuntu Products03:47
RichEdAIm: To produce a unified software solution and approach and support for Ubuntu's biggest niche sector : Education03:47
=== RichEd sits down
=== rodarvus cheers for RichEd
ograwhats the "habit change" point you list on your wikipage about ?03:48
ogracan you outline that a bit ?03:49
RichEdOh ... how to make people practically change behavior: The Golden Rule : People will only change one habit at a time03:49
ograhabit of ?03:49
RichEdSo if you need them to make a big change, you have to work out intermediate steps.03:49
ogra(which habits of whom do you want to change ?)03:49
highvoltageogra: the habits of those who use outlook and IE! (I hope)03:50
willvdland those who ask too many questions03:50
RichEdAny human habits ... established ways of doing things.03:50
ograquestions are never wrong ;)03:50
RichEdFor example online grocery shopping ... is 2 changes for most people ... ordering online + get delivery of perishable goods at home ...03:51
ogra(the planning7overview link is broken btw)03:51
highvoltageMy first encounter with RichEd was ~2 years ago when the HP country managers came to South Africa and did a tuXlab installation as team building.03:51
yarddogRichEd, the message returned, <riched@edubuntu.com>:03:51
yarddog82.211.81.145 does not like recipient03:51
RichEdSo if you can break into 2 smaler steps, you have more chance of success03:51
RichEdriched@ubuntu.com <- sorry03:52
highvoltageI was already impressed by RichEd's organisational skills back then, I think he is a great asset for Ubuntu, and I think he's put his weight into it quite well recently.03:52
ograright, but do you have specific habits and specific people in mid with that ? 03:52
RichEdThat sort of thing.03:52
rodarvusits riched@ubuntu.com or riched@edubuntu.org (the second one, after this meeting, hopefully ;) )03:52
ograi assume you dont want to change the habit of my mother how she buys milk for example :)03:52
RichEdUnless she is buying Microsoft Milk which uses Child Labour ;)03:53
RichEdrodarvus: I need oliver to approve my desired email addresses on edubuntu.org - the ubuntu.com people won't listen to requests in this area ;)03:54
highvoltageRichEd: log a ticket on RT, it seems to work quite well03:54
rodarvusRichEd is my (and ogra's) manager at Canonical, as everyone knows. He has been doing an amazing organizational work Edubuntu, and Ubuntu Education in general. He also contributed (and is contributing) great plans and general work for the community. I agree with highvoltage, and consider him a great asset for Edubuntu!03:54
ograright, that should work already, since JaneW already approved you :)03:54
=== highvoltage needs to leave in about a minute :(
RichEdjaneW knows what's good for her ;)J03:55
ograok, i think we're all aware of RichEd contributions so far anyway 03:55
ograthe wikipage lists a bunch of efforts as well03:55
rodarvusogra, testimonials are good & important. new members need to be accepted in a very transparent manner03:55
ograso a +1 from my side here 03:55
highvoltagea +1 from my side once again03:55
rodarvus(and I believe this is the case here, as it always was)03:55
ograok, JaneW gave her approval already 03:56
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ograwelcome RichEd !03:56
highvoltageRichEd: congrats :)03:56
rodarvusRichEd, welcome!03:56
RichEdThank you very much ... it is not something I take lightly !03:56
RichEdOnwards and upwards towards a better future for global education.03:57
ograi'd also like to propose that RichEd takes JaneW's place in the council03:57
sivangogra: is an ubuntu memeber automatically an edubunu member? :-)03:57
ograbut i think that should be agreed on by the whole council03:57
ograsivang, yes03:57
sivangogra: ah, cool03:57
rodarvusI thought an edubuntu member is automatically an ubuntu member, but not the other way03:58
ograno the other way around indeed03:58
ograrodarvus is right03:58
sivangah, I see03:58
RichEdI second Oliver's proposal ...03:58
RichEdI think the naming is quite confusing ... can we dicuss quickly ?03:58
rodarvusI second ogra's proposal too (though I can't vote as I'm not EC member)03:58
ograi propose we'll have an separate EC meeting to vote on that, i'll try to get the EC members together for that03:59
RichEdYou all refer to it as the Edubuntu Council .. but the group is just Edubuntu-Members  ?03:59
ogra(else we'd have to wait 4 weeks again)03:59
ograRichEd, the EC are the admins of Edubuntu-Members04:00
sivangogra: what if stuff I'm doing for ubuntu is used for Edubuntu as well? for eample hubackup and systemclean up tool ?04:00
ograwe'll need to revoke Jane there and add you to the list of admins04:00
sivangogra: can I use this as to claim Edubuntu membership?04:00
RichEdquote: There are 12 direct members of the "Edubuntu Members" team.04:00
sivang(well, actually, I hope they will be adopted by Edubuntu :-) )04:00
ograsivang, if you have special interest to become edubuntu member, indeed 04:01
sivangogra: I see, cool, thanks for the clarification.04:01
yarddogi have read the wiki some, how may one become a member of ubuntu?04:01
RichEdIs that the whole and entire Edubuntu Team ? of normal members ? 12 people ?04:01
ograyes :/04:01
ogranote that many of the people helping edubuntu have already been ubuntu members before04:02
ograso they didnt bother to apply for edubuntu membership specifically04:02
RichEdShouldn't we have a seperate group: Edubuntu Council or Education Council and then oush for a sign-up drive for Edubuntu Members ?04:02
ograwell, the plan was that people active in edubuntu apply for membership in the edubuntu-members team04:03
ograthat move was only made to get the community council less busy04:03
RichEdEven if they are Ubuntu members, we need to get them to sign up for our group as well if they are intersted in education so that we can bang out mail shots to the people that care.04:04
ograyou cant mail launchpad teams04:04
RichEdyes, but you can at least find a member list ... we can take this offline, but it may be a good time to take a look from a step back04:04
ograits really initally only to take load off the CC and make the CC meetings more quiet04:04
RichEdOkay ... I'm done for now ... any other matters ?04:05
ograok, so lets close that meeting now ... i'll care for a special EC meeting to make RichEd a EC member04:05
willvdlFolks, I must run. Need to wrap up some things before the close of business here04:05
ogragoing once04:05
ogragoing twice04:06
ograthanks all04:06
ogra(that was 66 mins over time)04:06
RichEdthanks all ...04:06
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RichEdogra: it was scheduled for 2 hours ?04:06
ograwe really need to cut down the general chatter more ....04:06
ograwe usually only schedule for 1h04:07
ograor did someone change that ?04:07
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RichEdit says 12:00-14:0004:07
ograoh, thats news to me 04:07
ograwho asked for that ?04:08
UbugtuSchedule for Etc/UTC: Current meeting: Edubuntu | 05 Oct 07:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 05 Oct 21:00: Kubuntu | 10 Oct 20:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 20:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team04:08
ograright, Ubugtu thinks as well its 2h ... all fine then04:08
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RichEdrexbron: cutting down, we can look at moving some of the meeting points into a general meeting ... like the artwork etc. where we use the #edubuntu meeting for a reportback, but move discussions out to their own forum.04:08
RichEdsorry rexbron : no idea how autocomplete got to your nick ! ignore04:09
ograwell, we just need to not drift away in general chatter :)04:09
RichEdogra:  cutting down, we can look at moving some of the meeting points into a general meeting ... like the artwork etc. where we use the #edubuntu meeting for a reportback, but move discussions out to their own forum.04:09
ograwe managed to hold our meetings in less than 1h before04:09
RichEdChatter is good sometimes, but not too much in the tech space :)04:10
ograso why shouldnt we be able to do that now :)04:10
ograthe topics didnt change 04:10
ograi think i should lead more strict ... :)04:10
RichEdPoint taken, but there will be growth in people and topics, so we may need to expand / divide.04:10
ograi'll try that in the future04:11
RichEdI'm sure that the stuff that I am raising acounts fior a lot of the chatter :)04:11
RichEdThe softer the issues, the more debate there seems to be.04:11
ograwell, lets try to get the general meeting time to 1h and a bit and then as we grow slowly extend it to 2h04:11
RichEdOkay :)04:11
ograi'll try to stop the sidetracking in the next ones ... :)04:12
RichEdPerhaps we can make a back-to-back meeting arrangement ... 1 hour + 1 hour and people can decide if they want ot be in both ... I'll give it some thought.04:12
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RichEdWhen you said the overview link above was broken ... from the page link or a direct load ?04:12
ografrom your page 04:13
=== ogra takes a break now ...
RichEdokay ... will check them all now ... still getting the hang of wiki syntax04:13
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finalbetaWhat actually happens with the above conversion now, have decisions been made, will stuff be implemented? hehe04:17
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=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 05 Oct 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 05 Oct 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 10 Oct 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 11 Oct 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 12:00 UTC: Community Council
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=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubug2] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 05 Oct 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 05 Oct 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 06 Oct 10:00 UTC: Accessibility Team | 10 Oct 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 11 Oct 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
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sharms@schedule chicago06:05
Ubug2Schedule for America/Chicago: 05 Oct 02:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 05 Oct 16:00: Kubuntu | 06 Oct 05:00: Accessibility Team | 10 Oct 15:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 15:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team06:05
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GNAM@schedule rome06:30
Ubug2Schedule for Europe/Rome: 05 Oct 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 05 Oct 23:00: Kubuntu | 06 Oct 12:00: Accessibility Team | 10 Oct 22:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 22:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team06:30
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GNAM@schedule rome11:07
UbugtuSchedule for Europe/Rome: 05 Oct 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 05 Oct 23:00: Kubuntu | 06 Oct 12:00: Accessibility Team | 10 Oct 22:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 22:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team11:07
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