seb128nautilus? ;:)12:08
illovaebut i know it is working, but i think it's depends of the coreutils devel12:08
illovaei know it is working on mandrivia12:08
illovaelol seb128 12:08
seb128what coreutils version is shipped with mandriva?12:09
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illovaehehe, good question12:10
illovaelook at this, 3 years ago > http://www.mail-archive.com/bug-coreutils@gnu.org/msg00610.html12:11
illovaewell i don't know the version on mandrivia i don't have it, i just saw a screenshot from it, on linuxfr.org12:11
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seb128illovae: according to http://linuxfr.org/~pascalscl/13847.html that was a Mandriva patch12:13
seb128they stopped using it apparently12:13
seb128the current spec has no such patch12:13
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illovaeerf... i was thinking that this patch wasn't added on coreutils in debian or ubuntu12:14
illovaebut was available on other distribution12:14
seb128doesn't look like12:14
illovaewhat do you think of this patch ? a good idea, or the end-users don't want it ?12:15
illovaei mean, maybe the devels can integrate it on the next rlz of coreutils12:15
seb128I think it would have been accepted upstream or Mandriva would still be shipping it if it was good12:17
seb128they probably stopped using it for a reason12:17
illovaei'm really sorry i don't have any knowledge about how do i can demand that for a future version, maybe it's not the good place12:17
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jdongillovae: file a bug report agains the package12:18
seb128usual way to ask to get a change is the bug tracker12:18
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illovaeyeah, it appears that the shellusers don't care about a fonction like this12:18
illovaeoki jdong thx :)12:18
illovaek seb128 12:18
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desrtis the decision for mountainview sponsorship delayed or does no answer = negative?12:21
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illovaethank you all for answering me with taking on your own time, i hope i wasn't too disturbing12:22
illovaeand again sorry for my english :D12:22
seb128np ;)12:23
seb128your english is good enough, don't worry12:23
zuldesrt: its been announced already12:23
illovaek thanks but it's difficult lol, i write in english with the speed of a child12:23
desrtso last time i think they sent out a "sorry, tough luck" email...12:24
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LaserJockI don't know that they are completely done though12:24
LaserJockdesrt: so maybe they haven't sent the "tough luck" emails yet12:24
sivangI've received it already :-)12:26
sivangthis mid-day12:26
ajmitchLaserJock: I got mine12:27
ajmitchjust this morning12:27
sivangmaybe it was this morning,12:27
sivangI got delusinal and started drinking the minute I saw it so can't recall >;-)12:27
illovaesorry again, just a question for security : 'cp' and 'mv' are parts of coreutils right ?12:28
illovae(for my bug report)12:28
desrtajmitch; did you get a tough-luck one or a friendly-love one?12:29
sivangdesrt: there are friendly-love ones as well? :)12:29
desrtthe "please come and we'll pay" ones :)12:29
ajmitchdesrt: tough luck, I suck, etc :)12:29
desrtwow.  they actually said you suck?12:29
desrtthat's tough indeed :p12:30
ajmitchit was implied :)12:30
sivangin mine as well ;)12:30
desrti guess failing SoC makes you a bit of a lepper :(12:30
seb128illovae: they are12:30
illovaethank a lot seb128 :)12:31
desrtseb128; did you ever see my gdm hackery?12:31
desrtseb128; i was sort of wondering if you could help me out with something12:32
seb128desrt: I don't think so12:32
ajmitchdesrt: I expect that12:32
seb128what is that about? ;)12:32
=== sivang is happily selecting and manipulating DB2 Viper data from Python, joy!
desrtwhen you successfully login the login screen stays on12:32
desrtand the 'enter your password' area is replaced by a progress bar12:32
desrtwhich slides along as you login12:32
desrtand the gdm window disappears only after the desktop is completely ready12:33
ajmitchdesrt: enlightenment-like bling?12:33
desrtso you don't get all sorts of flickering when logging it12:33
desrtit looks extra nice if the gdm background is similar to the desktop background12:33
seb128desrt:  http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=32205612:33
UbugtuGnome bug 322056 in general "allow to set background image when using graphical greeter" [Normal,Assigned]  12:33
desrtseb128: more like http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=35519012:34
UbugtuGnome bug 355190 in general "[rfe]  gdmgreeter continues to run during login process" [Enhancement,Unconfirmed]  12:34
seb128desrt: that is what Mandriva do, that avoid jumping by a transitional uni-color background12:34
desrtsee the screenshot for an idea -- http://bugzilla.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=72465&action=view12:35
desrt'cept it's no longer a pulsed progress bar -- it's a real one12:35
seb128right, those are 2 different ways to make the transition gdm to desktop smoother12:35
desrtin any case i'm catching a fair amount of resistance from upstream on the issue12:35
desrtand "distro X does it this way already" is sometimes good leverage :)12:35
seb128I'm not convinced I would prefer your way to the bug I pointed12:36
desrthmm.  ok.12:36
seb128switching directly to the desktop background with the splash is good too12:36
seb128I would need to try12:36
desrtyou need some gnome-session love in order for it to work properly12:36
seb128I just think it would feel weird to have the gdm screen staying for the time of the session startup12:37
desrtbut i think there's some stuff attached to the bug that lets you emulate it with appropriate shellscrpts12:37
desrtseb128; i hate to say it, but "see also: macos, windows"12:37
desrtanyway.  friend is here.  gotta run.12:37
seb128see you later12:37
sivanglaters desrt 12:37
seb128almost time to sleep here ;)12:37
sivangseb128: do you follow Paris time?12:38
sivangso we have now have same time :)12:39
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crimsunLaserJock: pong01:29
LaserJockI pinged you in here?01:29
crimsunprobably in -motu, migrating.01:30
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bddebianHowdy folks02:02
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fossa i'd like to talk to a software developer or someone familiar with the field about what kind of salary i can expect as a member of a development team.04:21
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nictukufossa, if you know, please tell me04:29
nictukuif you find out, I mean04:29
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fossanictuku, no one seems to have any idea.  it could range anywhere from $45-80K04:36
bluefoxicygimme some help here04:36
bluefoxicywhat happens on the initrd04:37
bluefoxicyor more specifically what happens between executing /linuxrc and getting to readahead04:37
bluefoxicyI believe it may be possible to improve readahead efficiency massively, but this is based on a couple big assumptions04:37
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bluefoxicyprimarily, I am making the assumption that the boot order is initrd->linuxrc->load a bunch of hardware modules->mount and pivot root->pass control to upstart->load some more hardware->mount some essential file systems->bring up readahead04:38
bluefoxicyin which case, initrd->linuxrc->load modules for rootfs and underlying hardware->activate read-ahead process in the background->continue as normal would take advantage of the time other hardware is being probed for and initialized04:39
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wasabiHmm. Where's teh "reopen" button in LP?04:44
wasabiOn a bug.04:44
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infinitywasabi: Edit the bug and change the status from Fix Released to something else?04:45
wasabiDon't have a status option anywhere I can find.04:45
infinityBug number?04:46
wasabibug 4346504:46
UbugtuMalone bug 43465 in libpam-krb5 "Unable to unlock." [Medium,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/4346504:46
wasabioh there04:46
wasabiyou have to click on the "affects"04:46
wasabiHeh. I got it.04:46
infinityYeha. :)04:46
infinityThere used to be a little arrow there that made it more obvious it was expandable.04:46
infinityNot sure why that went away.04:46
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bluefoxicythe initrd has 176 modules on it?04:51
HrdwrBoBit has all modules in it04:51
bluefoxicyHrdwrBoB:  isn't that counterproductive04:52
ajmitchwasabi: we could probably drag in new libpam-krb5 from debian, if you can test it & get back with some info on it04:52
bluefoxicyHrdwrBoB:  that being, you have to load those all, unpack them into memory, modprobe them each, they have to be stored on disk in the initrd image...04:52
ajmitchsince it's still in universe04:52
infinitybluefoxicy: Yes, it's inefficient, but it's the safest approach.  You can choose to have your initrd built with "MODULES=dep" to try to guess which modules to include and make it smaller, but it's less safe.04:54
bluefoxicyinfinity:  ah.04:54
infinitybluefoxicy: See initramfs.conf(5)04:54
bluefoxicyinfinity:  is there a reason it's technically infeasible to detect rootfs file system type and the hardware it runs on?04:54
infinityMODULES=dep also, of course, means that upgrading your motherboard or moving the hard drive to another box will leave you with an unbootable system.04:54
HrdwrBoBsince there is no modules for that system04:55
infinityIf you only include the driver for your specific disk controller, you get a new controller...?04:55
bluefoxicyThe PCI drivers aren't generic.. the IDE interface should be generic except it won't have DMA (I've run without the IDE controller driver before, it's slow)04:55
infinitySomething an "expert" could deal with fine, but not robust for the ideal user.04:55
bluefoxicyinfinity:  the SATA controller I use will probably not work04:56
HrdwrBoBeven for an expert it's a PITA04:56
bluefoxicyyou _NEED_ the driver for the specific SATA you have04:56
infinitybluefoxicy: Yes, that's my point.04:56
infinitybluefoxicy: Hence why we build the "fat" initrd by default.  Much safer and easier for users to not break.04:56
bluefoxicyfor me when I had Gentoo I could never figure out my IDE controller until the last year of using it04:56
bluefoxicyso I never had DMA04:56
bluefoxicybut the generic IDE support got me actual access to the disk04:57
bluefoxicyinfinity:  nods, good points anyway.  But... NETWORK card drivers?04:57
infinitySimilar argument.  Fat initrds for thin (or chubby) clients.04:57
infinityWe don't actually load/probe them unless you're booting from a network, so it's just a bit of wasted space.04:58
bluefoxicyinfinity:  alright.  Is it safe to attempt to get the rootfs access immediately and get rootfs mounted early from the initrd, in its fat form?04:58
infinityThat's pretty much the whole point of initramfs anyway.04:59
infinityI'm not sure how much more quickly we can get there.04:59
infinityIt's not like it does anything ELSE. :)04:59
bluefoxicywhat about the other hardware?  That's loaded from rootfs, even when it's got duplicate modules in initramfs?04:59
infinity(Well, except for cute stuff like usplash and bootchart and thins)04:59
bluefoxicyinfinity:  about when does readahead come into play?05:00
infinityHardware loading is pretty much just done by udev, in two passes.05:00
infinitySo, what modules you have available determines what gets loaded.05:00
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infinity(I lied about the network driver thing, still thinking of pre-udevplug days)05:01
infinitySo, yeah, your NIC driver will probably get loaded in the initramfs.  No big deal.05:01
infinityI don't have any NICs that actually take time to settle.05:01
infinityOr, wait.  Maybe Scott calls udevplug with an argument to only load storage class stuff.05:01
infinityOkay, I should go read the code again. :)05:01
infinityAhh, yeah, it just loads storage class stuff if you're booting local.  I was right the first time.05:02
infinitySo your NIC won't get loaded until we switch to the real root.05:02
bluefoxicyinfinity:  Well my endpoint is that I want to back readahead to when it's immediatly feasible to begin reading files off the rootfs, especially before drivers start getting loaded; drivers need to initialize hardware, and if readahead is running in the background while hardware is initting you have a CPU bound problem in parallel with an IO bound problem and they both parallel quite nicely.05:02
bluefoxicybut I don't entirely understand what's happening at boot05:03
infinityWe tossed around the idea of two readahead invocations (one for rootfs, one for the full fs), but we don't really read enough from the rootfs before mounting /usr to make it worthwhile.05:03
infinitySo, we do readahead pretty much as soon as /usr is mounted.05:04
bluefoxicywhat about moving the mount of /usr back earlier, say as soon as you can satisfy access to its device05:04
infinityIt's already as early as it can get.05:05
infinityCheck /etc/rcS.d, and tell me what you think could happen after /usr is mounted.05:06
bluefoxicyoh, rcS is always started?  (couldn't figure that part out on my own)05:06
infinityOh, hey, Scott did give us that second readahead invocation.05:07
infinitySo, even that's happened.05:07
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infinityYeah, rcS is the "boot" runlevel.05:07
infinityYou go from initramfs to rcS to whatever default runlevel you have (usually rc2)05:07
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bluefoxicythe only other thing I can think of is that readahead is not adaptive; but preload is too much of a nightmare to me05:10
wasabiajmitch: Sorry. I don't think it's libpam-krb5's fault.05:10
ajmitchwasabi: oh well, I'll look at reasons to get it updated anyway :)05:11
wasabiWe're going to be doing directory integration stuff at the summit.05:11
wasabilibpam-krb5 will be a part of that. ;)05:11
jdongbluefoxicy: preload is indeed a nightmare05:11
jdongbluefoxicy: on my box, it tends to cause extra disk IO more than anything else05:11
bluefoxicyjdong:  I think it c.. yeah, thrashing.05:11
ajmitchwasabi: yes, I'm really hoping to get there if at all possible05:12
jdongbluefoxicy: personally I'd like to see more work in the readahead department05:12
jdongI like readahead05:12
bluefoxicyjdong:  How early can I get inotify up05:12
jdongif prefetchers are made for GNOME, firefox, etc...05:12
jdongall I think are necessary are launcher wrapper scripts05:12
ajmitchwasabi: I have a few things to bring up..05:13
wasabiajmitch: Hope ya make it. Planning on it?05:13
bluefoxicyjdong:  preload is probably dumb enough to read-ahead entire libraries05:13
jdongbluefoxicy: I don't think preload has any level of intelligence :D05:14
ajmitchwasabi: looking at how I can get there05:14
bluefoxicyI would read-ahead their headers only first and then go back and read their .data  and let .text be05:14
bluefoxicy(dynamic linking ONLY cares about headers...)05:14
bluefoxicyjdong: I would tie the read-ahead into init mainly; just-in-time read-ahead is pretty pointless, except maybe reading in library headers to make dynamic linking more IO bound05:16
jdongbluefoxicy: jit readahead reduces disk seeking05:17
bluefoxicyI mean, you start loading Gnumeric.  It's going to immediately start picking up libraries.  Possibly faster than you can read them in.05:17
jdongbluefoxicy: that's a pretty big deal for something like GNOME startup05:17
bluefoxicyjdong:  I could make the dynamic linker do it.05:17
jdongmy GNOME startup is clearly IO bound05:17
bluefoxicyno, seriously, ld.so could be hacked to do it05:17
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bluefoxicyit reads the needed library section (DT_NEEDED?) and loads libraries one by one, it could easily fork() and set up a readahead() call to each in their header area (and then exit) while it goes and dynamic links05:19
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bluefoxicyi'm severely unmotivated to try to hack glibc05:31
bluefoxicyI know drepper and friends will just be like "that sucks fuck off" and then show up 3 weeks later with a slightly altered patch "we wrote this, some other guy tried to do something like this but his was stupid ours is much cooler"05:31
mjg59bluefoxicy: We've heard this before05:32
bluefoxicymjg59:  oh, right, yeah.  I've seen it too many times.05:32
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nictukuinfinity, maybe NWU will enter Debian experimental soon, I believe. Will you still be able to review its security, as you offered months ago?05:44
infinitynictuku: If I have time, I can look at it sometime, sure.05:44
nictukuinfinity, thank you. I'll let you know when it gets to the next milestone05:46
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whiprushmjg59: when you refer to docks in your post to the list, do you mean things like resuming in the dock?06:07
whiprushor just having the dock work?06:07
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nixternalxorg-driver-fglrx broken?  can't get it to work here now..was working until i reboote =/06:34
HrdwrBoBlooks like kernel has been updated and fglrx hasn't06:34
nixternalok..whew ;)06:34
infinityErr, but the kernel didn't have an ABI change...06:34
infinityAt least, wasn't meant to.06:35
infinityOh well, I'll be uploading a new LRM later anyway, so maybe the problem will just go away.06:35
nixternalas long as i get my 1600x1200 back soon, i don't care ;)06:35
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freakabcdhi all06:57
freakabcdcrimsun, err.. i believe this guy did a _working_ sample implementation _before_ dapper was released!06:57
freakabcdand its suddenly edgy+1 material?06:58
freakabcddon;t tell me you guys decided even before dapper was released that binary deltas will be edgy+1 material? heck somehow i think it might even be edgy+2 material :(06:58
crimsunfreakabcd: "suddenly" is a bit far flung07:01
freakabcdsorry, it is indeed.07:01
freakabcdbut could you elaborate on the idea that it was pre-conceived waay back that its edgy+1 material?07:01
tfheenfreakabcd: was there an implementation in the archive before feature freeze?07:02
freakabcdtfheen, i dunno about dapper. but surely before even edgy opened for devel07:02
freakabcdits somewhere in the mailing list archives.07:03
tfheenfreakabcd: oh?  Can you point me to the spec?07:03
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freakabcdthere might be another main thread somewhere else. but thats the one i found byt looking just now07:05
tfheenthat's not a spec, though.  Our development process is spec-focused where all features should have a spec before they are implemented07:06
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freakabcderr.. what i meant was. if you read that thread: theres not much interest in even writing a spec.07:07
freakabcdyou can;t expect 1 person to do all the work of writing the spec and implementing a proof-of-concept07:07
freakabcdthe guy wrote a proof-of-concept that works. now write a spec and a proper implementation (i guess by committee). this never happened07:07
tfheenif there's no interest in the feature, nobody will write the spec.07:08
tfheenit's quite simple, really07:09
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freakabcdreally, people just underrate bandwidth.07:09
Treenaksreally, some people overrate it07:09
freakabcdupdating huge megabytes of packages for few kb of changes07:09
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tfheenthat might be, but somebody needs to write the spec and make sure it gets targetted for a release.  That requires somebody to push for it, not just write a sample implementation and hope it all works out in the end.07:10
Hobbseetfheen: no magic wand waving?  no fun!07:11
tfheenHobbsee: heh. :-)07:11
tfheenHobbsee: good morning07:11
ajmitchafternoon Hobbsee 07:12
tfheenfreakabcd: and complaining about missing features after feature freeze is a bit late.07:12
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freakabcdapologies, my objective was not to engage in an 'include this feature or die' conversation.07:13
tfheenhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeatureSpecifications tells a bit about how the process works07:14
Hobbseehey tfheen, ajmitch :)07:19
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bluefoxicyboot chart says things are a mess I/O wise.  Hrm.07:27
bluefoxicyHow early can I get inotify up07:27
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pittiGood morning08:17
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Hobbseehey pitti 08:23
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dholbachgood morning08:54
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seb128mdz_: I think I didn't get a reply to the mail I sent you where I suggested seeding avahi-daemon, is that still pending reply on your side?09:46
mdz_seb128: I don't think it's in my inbox; please resend09:46
seb128mdz_: it was a reply to your mail about avahi-daemon activated by default (following on the debian thread about it)09:48
seb128mdz_: ok, will do09:48
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tfheenmdz_: any chance you can nag LP people to get https://launchpad.net/products/malone/+bug/62495 fixed or worked around?  RC will be painful without it fixed.10:01
UbugtuMalone bug 62495 in malone "Milestone bug list doesn't sort properly" [Undecided,Confirmed]  10:01
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cbx33ping mvo10:02
mvohello cbx3310:02
henotfheen: when shall we set the WinFOSS freeze at? I'm easy, the remaining work is trivial anyway10:03
cbx33preffered method for upgrading a dapper machine to edgY?10:03
seb128update-manager -d 10:03
cbx33I need to do an upgrade test for edubuntu for ogra10:03
henoThis page doesn't actually have an RC FREEZE data AFAICS https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyReleaseSchedule10:03
tfheenheno: personally, I like to get stuff done early rather than late, so either ten or seven days before RC?10:03
cbx33seb128 i get nothing10:04
cbx33just the normal update10:04
mvocbx33: update-manager -c -d, please let me know about the result 10:04
cbx33will try again10:04
cbx33mvo got it with that command, but only if I export my proxy details first10:05
cbx33this was raised as a bug last time10:05
henotfheen: ok, monday is 10 days before, we can do that10:05
mvocbx33: do you use gnome-terminal? is your proxy configured via gconf?10:05
cbx33hmmm lemme check not sure on this machine10:06
cbx33it is certainly configured in apt10:06
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tfheenheno: if that's not enough time, do tell me, though10:06
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cbx33i just set it up in the gnome network proxy 10:07
cbx33using the auto config script option10:07
cbx33and it still doesn't work10:07
henotfheen: the only thing is if Firefox put out a very important fix late in the process, but I can ask for a special exception for that10:08
henoSo we'll go with monday10:08
cbx33doesn't seem to work at all mvo10:09
mvocbx33: this is probably a transient failure, this whole thing works by using http_proxy. that is passed via gksu and gnome-terminal. if you use the gnome-terminal that is still open it will fail unfortunately10:09
tfheenheno: sure.10:09
cbx33ah ok10:09
cbx33I'll try not using gnome terminal10:09
mvocbx33: *but* please file a bug about this, so that I can fix it properly 10:09
cbx33nope still doesn't work even if I run from the menu10:10
cbx33only way I can get it to successfully run is to export the proxy details first10:10
mvocbx33: oh, plesae file a bug then, I will fix it with the next upload (fix should be straight-forward)10:11
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cbx33mvo no problem10:12
Burgundaviacbx33: do you not have an LP account?10:13
ograBurgundavia, https://launchpad.net/people/petesavage10:14
Burgundaviaogra: odd, because mdz commented on that bug that he couldn't find pete10:14
ograwhich bug ?10:14
cbx33mvo - https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/update-manager/+bug/4062610:15
UbugtuMalone bug 40626 in update-manager "Update manager ignores proxy settings when attempting to download upgrade tool for Dapper." [Medium,Needs info]  10:15
cbx33Burgundavia: I know but I do have an account else I wouldn't have been able to do a lot of things ;)10:15
cbx33that was created ages ago10:15
mvocbx33: ok, updated10:15
cbx33ty dude10:15
ograBurgundavia, he's edubuntu member and motu ... 10:15
cbx33ogra starting the upgrade now10:15
Burgundaviaogra: yes, that is what I thought10:16
ogracbx33, thanks, and apparently you identified a bug already ;)10:16
cbx33maybe it's because I'm PeteSavage and not Pete Savage10:16
cbx33I reported it back in the breezy -> dapper10:16
cbx33but then I think before I could LP it, someone else had10:17
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seb128cbx33: dunno if you read the comments, your gconf change is not good10:18
cbx33I havn't had a chance to read yet10:18
cbx33seb128 oh?10:18
cbx33I'll go read10:18
seb128cbx33: it breaks login in some cases apparently10:18
seb128cbx33: I got gconfd complaining than /var/....USER directory can't be created10:19
seb128cbx33: and session exiting on that10:19
cbx33any ideas?10:19
seb128no, nothing trivial10:19
seb128either look at gconfd-2 code and make it handle that fine10:20
cbx33ogra anything from your end?10:20
seb128or make something create those directories, not sure on where to plug that though10:20
cbx33seb128 sure - hmm10:20
seb128it would be easy to create them for existing users10:20
seb128the issue is if you create a new user it would need to create the directory too10:21
ograi'd add it to users-admin then ...10:21
seb128and I don't fancy try to change adduser, etc for that10:21
Kamionargh no10:21
Kamionusers-admin <- wrong place10:21
ograoh, why ?10:21
seb128because it's a gconf directory10:21
ograadditional groups are added there as well10:21
ograah, k10:21
Kamionogra: people add users with useradd, adduser, or hell they create them on a totally different machine using NIS or whatever10:21
seb128and some people add users who don't use GNOME :p10:22
Kamionthere's no way to do this correctly by patching the user creation tools10:22
cbx33ok ogra I'm going for the upgrade....ok?10:22
Kamionif you want a per-user directory you need a component running as root to create it10:22
cbx33Kamion: yup10:22
cbx33but it's too late for that now10:22
seb128the way is probably to make gconfd-2 not complain when the directory doesn't exist10:23
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cbx33again too late for that now10:23
seb128probably yep10:23
cbx33damn it10:23
cbx33it worked fine here10:23
seb128it doesn't here10:23
ogracbx33, we have a component running as root ...10:23
Kamioncbx33: if it's too late for that now, then the patch surely needs to be reverted10:23
ograwhy cant S-C-P create it if needed ?10:23
Kamiontoo late to do it at all correctly => don't do it at all ...10:24
seb128ogra: I'm not going to change gconf in a way which makes it break if you root component is not running10:24
cbx33ogra: sure 10:24
cbx33but scp isn't runnign all the time10:24
seb128Kamion: I didn't upload the patch since I faced the issue with my test user on my desktop10:24
cbx33and the dir is created in pessulus10:24
ograi thought its only about creating the dir ... (didnt know it breaks without it)10:24
Kamionseb128: ah right, good10:24
cbx33ogra: no....that's the issue10:24
cbx33pessulus creates it......10:24
cbx33when you first load it for a specific user10:25
seb128(in fact I uploaded the patched version and a next one reverting it but both had wrong targets and were refused)10:25
ogracbx33, it would be nice if you could CC me in the conversation about such issues next time ...10:25
cbx33ogra this is the first I've heard of it10:25
ograsince i only understand half of what you guys are talking about atm10:25
cbx33we have a dir created to allow per user mandatory keys10:26
cbx33but if that dir doesn't exists - some machine fail to login10:26
seb128ogra: cbx33 asked me to add "xml:readonly:/var/lib/gconf/users/$(USER)/gconf.xml.mandatory" to the gconf path10:26
seb128ogra: I did the change yesterday10:26
seb128started gdmflexiserver --xnest and logged in with my test user10:27
ograthat was the patch discussed with vuntz right ?10:27
cbx33he suggested that dir for it10:27
seb128and gconf complained that /var/lib/gconf/users/USER can't be created and doesn't exist10:27
ograwhere he said that *could* work but would need testing10:27
seb128and the session exit10:27
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seb128so it's no go from me10:27
cbx33it "does" work10:27
ogralets postpone that for edgy+1 then10:28
cbx33for me10:28
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seb128it works when I log in with gdmflexiserver and not when I use gdmflexiserver --xnest10:28
seb128for a reason I don't explain yet :p10:28
cbx33argh !10:28
ograto get more testing and a proper solution for gconf ...10:28
cbx33ogra we can put that line in a howto on the wiki10:29
cbx33I've never used gdmflexiserver - so 10:29
cbx33I generally test on real machines :(10:29
seb128right, that's one a conffile change10:29
seb128no need to rebuild a package for it10:29
cbx33and per user mandatory keys is a "advanced" feature anyway10:29
seb128cbx33: better to test such changes with all sort of situations10:29
cbx33seb128 - I need more info then :010:30
cbx33i don;t know all the weird and wonderful ways you guys test yet10:30
cbx33so I'm updating now ogra10:30
ogracbx33, are you coming to MV btw ?10:30
ograif so, lets put up a spec and invite seb128 to the table ;)10:31
ograSCP will need more enhancements anyway ... 10:32
pittimjg59: on my ibook, resuming from STR causes the hard drive spindown time to be reset to 5 seconds; that's destroying the disk (besides being annoying), so I always have to manually reset it to some sane value (15 minutes); do you know which part causes this?10:40
giftnudelpitti: laptop-mode10:43
pittigiftnudel: it's not installed10:43
pittithat's universe10:43
pittiit's a standard edgy beta installation10:43
giftnudelbut there is something which does this kind of thing10:43
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giftnudelpitti, so you don't have /etc/laptop-mode/laptop-mode.conf ?10:44
pittigiftnudel: I do, it's from laptop-mode-tools10:45
giftnudelit's in that file10:45
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pittigiftnudel: argh, indeed: CONTROL_HD_IDLE_TIMEOUT=1, TIMEOUT_SECONDS=510:45
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pittiso that kills hard disks on all arches10:45
pittieven for AC power10:46
giftnudelwell, no, it's not active for ac10:46
pittigiftnudel: it is, I am on AC10:46
pittiLM_AC_HD_IDLE_TIUMEOUT_SECONDS=5 <= default10:46
giftnudelyes, but there is still a setting to disable it on ac10:47
pittiit should be off for AC and something like 15 minutes for battery10:47
giftnudelyes, this sounds reasonable10:47
pittigiftnudel: do you know the difference between LM_ and NOLM_?10:48
giftnudellaptop-mode and no laptop-mode10:48
pittiah, thanks10:48
pittigiftnudel: so, the AC timeout for NOLM is 7200, and for LM 510:48
pittimjg59: do you agree to raising the default timeouts?10:49
giftnudel"laptop-mode stop" uses the no l-m thing, and ac and batt are for l-m on10:50
giftnudelpitti: it is explained at the start of the file10:50
pittigiftnudel: ok, thanks for your help!10:50
giftnudelthis is also an important option10:51
giftnudelyes, no problem10:51
pittigiftnudel: then this one obviously does not work on the ibook10:51
giftnudelit seems so, but I really suggest a complete review of all options10:52
pittiI'll file a bug about it for discussion10:52
giftnudeltarget it to 6.10, it's easy fixable, but I think we should reach a consensus before that10:52
giftnudeland backport it to dapper after that, since it really spins down the disc after 5 secs which is a lot!10:53
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giftnudeloh, I think laptop-mode is not enabled on edgy atm (it gets switched off and on on a regular basis due to some bug reports)10:55
tonfapitti: ping10:55
pittihi tonfa 10:56
tonfapitti: is there some channel for apport related discussion ?10:57
tonfaor /query ?10:57
pittigiftnudel: ah, bug 29529, was already filed10:58
UbugtuMalone bug 29529 in laptop-mode-tools "HDD powerdown every 2 seconds in Dapper" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/2952910:58
pittitonfa: /query is fine for me, or use this channel10:58
giftnudelpitti: thanks, I found that too10:59
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tepsipakkipoking with a stick here, but couldn't 'uname -r' in Ubuntu tell something about the OS version as well?11:08
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thomchanging uname is badness11:09
Kamionthat'd be out of spec for uname -r and would break things11:09
Kamionuse lsb_release11:09
pittitepsipakki: try lsb_release -a11:09
tepsipakkiok, that looks nice11:09
Kamionlots of code parses uname -r (or the equivalent kernel structure) to work out the kernel version it's running on11:10
tepsipakkiyeah, I see11:10
tepsipakkiit's just that lsb_release isn't available on other unices ;)11:10
Kamionthat's easily checked ...11:11
tepsipakkisolaris and tru64 seem to be the ones that output something sensible with uname -r, macosx outputs the kernel version (8.7.0 on 10.4), aix just "2" on 5.2 etc11:12
Kamionthe commercial Unixes often sync up the kernel version with the distribution release11:14
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tepsipakkibut I understand that it isn't trivial to change uname in linux.. especially if lsb_release is the standard way to tell the distro in linux11:15
Kamionbut given a known flavour of Unix, uname -r should be considered to have a fixed format11:15
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tepsipakkiyes, maybe I won't file a bug about it, instead inform the unix-punks to use lsb_release in linux ;)11:17
tepsipakkiuname works too, if you know which kernel is in wich11:17
Keybukogra: sysvinit, you about to do it?11:19
Keybukif not, I have a quick upload11:19
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ograKeybuk, then do it11:23
Keybukogra: should ldm not also be in that list?11:24
ograKeybuk, nope11:24
ograldm doesnt have an initscript11:24
ograltsp-client starts the screen scripts for ltsp, one of them is ldm11:24
ograbut there isd for example also the startx screenscript that starts an XDMCP session11:25
ogradepending on what you select in your lts.conf file11:25
ogra(ldm is just the default)11:25
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ograi had two reports now that there is a conffile prompt for login.defs during upgrades11:44
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givrepitti: #35354 , David Zeuthen has just commit a fix for that bug which is actually in git : http://gitweb.freedesktop.org/?p=hal.git;a=commit;h=2ea340399bf8cf3d2bb6bd1b5c4ecbc2042e93d411:47
pittibug 3535411:47
UbugtuMalone bug 35354 in nautilus "hal does not recognize NTFS-FUSE mounted devices as mounted" [Medium,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/3535411:47
pittigivre: ah, sweet11:47
givrepitti: tested it and it works great11:47
pittigivre: could't you have told me 30 minutes ago? I just uploaded a new hal :)11:48
givrepitti: i saw, yeah ;)11:49
ograhrm, 2what apart from shadow touched /etc/login.defs ?11:49
TreenaksUpload the pod bay doors HAL11:49
ograKamion, ^^^ ? any idea ?11:50
ograi see you merged it ...11:51
givrepitti: there is still a possible issue about the right options to allow11:51
givrepitti: ntfs-fuse & ntfs-3g use locale= instead of iocharset=11:51
givrepitti: it's could be good to add it11:53
pittigivre: that's an entirely separate bug, isn't it?11:54
givrepitti: separate ? the option stuff ?11:55
givrepitti: i'll forward you the email i get from David Zeuthen if you want11:57
givrepitti: there is too change in the commit, one for autofs, which is in any not in edgy hal, and one for fuse11:58
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givrepitti: the right change to do is add at the bug, http://librarian.launchpad.net/4667871/support-fuse.patch12:00
Kamionogra: shadow's within its rights to change /etc/login.defs (and it did). The question is more: what other script changed /etc/login.defs?12:03
Kamionand that I don't know12:03
Kamionconffile prompts are only a bug if a script changed the conffile12:03
Kamionthey aren't a bug in general12:03
ograi cant find anything touching it by grepping through /var/lib/dpkg/info/*12:03
Kamionthen quite possibly those users changed it and forgot about it12:03
ogracbx33, installed a plain dapper and did an edubuntu upgrade test for me12:04
ograso its untouched12:04
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ograand i had a report from pips1 during a beta upgrade 12:04
ograintrestingly *my* /etc/login.defs in edgy has 12:05
ogra-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 11K 2006-09-22 03:36 /etc/login.defs12:05
Kamion482803f5fcf4df8ad4f99fb8b0ee3ff1  /etc/login.defs12:05
ograi'm pretty sure i didnt get a new login package since i installed ... so something touched it as well on 2006-09-2212:06
ogra1f6b6a6190933f3a324db770df21e1a7  /etc/login.defs12:06
Kamionmy timestamp matches the last login12:06
Kamionogra: could you diff yours against http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/tmp/login.defs, please?12:06
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ograogra@edubuntu:~/packages$ diff login.defs /etc/login.defs 12:07
ogra< UID_MIN                        100012:07
ogra< UID_MAX                       6000012:07
ogra> UID_MIN 100012:07
ogra> UID_MAX 6000012:07
ograwhitespace :(12:08
esputohello, I would like to create a dapper server iso with updated packages, I've been reading arround but I get stuck on the creation of "Packages" files under /dists/ directory, is there any tool for that?12:08
pittigivre: thanks, I'll read the mail12:11
pittiesputo: apt-ftparchive does that normally12:11
esputothak's pitti I'll give it a look12:11
pittiesputo: also, take a look at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InstallCDCustomization12:12
Kamionogra: it's not gnome-system-tools or something messing with that file?12:12
givrepitti: better : http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/hal/2006-October/006308.html12:12
ograKamion, ah, that could be i think i added a testuser around that time12:13
ograi'll add another one12:13
pittigivre: thanks; I added that to the bug trail12:14
ograogra@edubuntu:~/packages$ ls -lh /etc/login.defs 12:14
ogra-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 11K 2006-10-05 12:14 /etc/login.defs12:14
ograKamion, yep, it is12:14
ograwow, that was a good guess :)12:15
ogradholbach, ?? ^^^12:15
ograwhy is it touching it ?12:15
givrepitti: thanks12:15
dholbachwhat is touching what?12:15
ogradholbach, g-s-t rewrites /etc/login.defs12:15
dholbachah, g-s-t12:15
ograand adds whitespace12:16
cbx33ogra: ok I have another12:16
ograerr, right12:16
Kamionthat's not so much the point though - it shouldn't touch the file if the values it wants to write are the same as those that are already there12:16
ograi dont see a reason to touch it at all though12:17
ogracbx33, hmm12:17
cbx33the RESUME field setting has been altered12:17
cbx33that's the only thing12:17
KamionRESUME should live in a separate file now, typically /etc/initramfs-tools/conf.d/resume12:17
Kamionthere may be some glitchiness in that upgrade12:18
cbx33is the only diff on that file12:18
dholbachogra: system-tools-backends, /usr/share/system-tools-backends-2.0/scripts/Users/Users.pm, line 65512:18
cbx33got enough info on that one? - chall I continue with a replace?12:18
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cbx33that's /etc/initramfs-tools/initiramfs.conf12:19
ogracbx33, yep12:19
dholbachogra: it's used since you can change that for example in the g-s-t UI - but I guess it could be a tad more careful with preserving whitespaces *shrug*12:20
ograit should12:21
cbx33it wasn't just whitespace12:21
dholbachcalled from UsersConfig.pm, line 7712:21
cbx33sorry I've missed some of the convo12:21
cbx33and cgi-irc makes it difficult to scroll back up12:21
ograthe system breaks apparently if you don5t let the package overwrite it with the package file12:21
ograpips1 had that case12:21
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ograhe couldnt log in anymore12:21
cbx33i replaced so unfortuantely I can't tell you on that score :(12:22
cbx33shall I replace with this initramfs?12:22
ogra(i'll ask him for details if he's around)12:22
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ogracbx33, yes, thats apparently known12:22
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seb128dholbach: what is used?12:23
KamionRiddell: so, assuming that I fix the DCOP calling problem in ubiquity (which I'm working on now), how do I disable the kded medianotifier?12:23
dholbachseb128: s-t-b seems to touch /etc/login.defs and somethin in edubuntu land (not sure if i understood correctly) doesn't cope with whitespace changes12:23
cbx33can I ask...is it necessary to regenerate the suaplsh so many times12:23
seb128dholbach: ah, k12:24
Kamiondholbach: nothing to do with Edubuntu - /etc/login.defs is a conffile owned by shadow12:24
Kamioner, login12:24
dholbach&Utils::Replace::split ($file, $login_defs_prop_map{$key}, "[ \t] +", $$config{$key});12:24
cbx33on slower machines it takes a long time to regenerate 3-4 times12:24
Kamiondholbach: you have to be very careful when editing conffiles to avoid unnecessary changes12:24
Kamionmaking sure to replace with the same amount of whitespace would help12:25
ograurgh !12:25
ograthe craftsmen need to shut down my power12:25
ograno, we get a solar power system and they are doing the final wiring12:25
cbx33ahhhhh yes your solar power12:26
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seb128carlos: around?12:28
seb128carlos: any reason https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/yelp/ has no "translation" link working?12:28
cbx33is it a known one about exports ?12:30
cbx33I have a debconf popup12:30
carlosseb128: translations need a distrorelease as a context12:30
KamionRiddell: HAH, fixed the DCOP problem - just need to use kdesu --nonewdcop12:30
carlosseb128: for instance, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+source/yelp/12:30
seb128carlos: ok, thank you12:30
carlosseb128: please, file a bug about that, I think is quite easy to add links to the prefered distrorelease12:31
seb128carlos: bug on what product?12:31
RiddellKamion: for logout?12:32
dholbachsladen: thanks for taking care of fschoep's patch12:33
Riddellah, medianotifier12:33
KamionRiddell: well, I fixed it so that we can make reboot work now12:33
Kamion(properly, that is)12:33
RiddellKamion: you're a genius12:33
cbx33dudes this debconf thing is horrid12:33
KamionRiddell: still don't know how to disable the medianotifier though12:34
RiddellKamion: turning off medianotifier is "dcop kded kded unloadModule medianotifier"12:34
cbx33it popped up so I asked it to show me changes12:34
seb128carlos: https://launchpad.net/products/rosetta/+bug/6415412:34
UbugtuMalone bug 64154 in rosetta "package page should have a link to current translation" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  12:34
Kamionthat's not debconf's fault, it's ucf12:34
cbx33which it did in the update manager windows text consoly thing12:34
Kamiondebconf is just the framework, don't blame it12:34
carlosseb128: thanks12:34
cbx33and i tried pressing space enter, eventually it's q i needed to press12:34
cbx33Kamion sorry I'm not blaming12:34
cbx33I'm just end usering on this one ;)12:34
givrepitti: i was thinking that adding the right options to volume.mount.valid_options is only needed when you use a solution like gnome-mount, isn't it ?12:35
KamionRiddell: oh, dcop kded kded unloadModule maybe?12:36
RiddellKamion: that's what I said :)12:36
Riddell11:34 < Riddell> Kamion: turning off medianotifier is "dcop kded kded unloadModule medianotifier"12:36
KamionRiddell: oh, I totally missed it12:36
KamionRiddell: and guessed it myself ;-)12:37
Kamionok, cool, I'll try to wire that in12:37
cbx33btw guys - http://www.progbox.co.uk/finals/RC/exportUB2.ogg12:37
cbx33shorter login sound12:37
KamionRiddell: do I have to unload the mediamanager too?12:37
RiddellKamion: don't think so, that just means KDE uses HAL instead of reading fstab, but medianotifier should be the annoying popup boxes part12:39
pittiKamion: if you have some seconds, can you please take a look at bug 61092?12:40
UbugtuMalone bug 61092 in mozilla-firefox-locale-all "mozilla-firefox-locale-en-gb contains incorrect translations of "disk" (both dapper and edgy)" [Low,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/6109212:40
pittiKamion: I think the current Firefox en-GB translation is correct, but I'd appreciate your opinion12:41
Kamion"disc" is a somewhat ... fanatic British English approach, IMHO12:41
Kamionmost computer-literate British English speakers I know use disk in the manner described by the reporter (i.e. not for CDs, but for practically everything else)12:42
Ngyeah, disc is something flat and round12:42
Ngotherwise disk12:42
=== Keybuk agrees
KamionI do know a few people who'd say "hard disc", but they also spell "font" as "fount"12:42
KeybukI violently dislike people who do s/disk/disc/12:42
Kamionand other such archaisms12:42
KeybukKamion: computer programme ?12:43
NgI'd guess it's from discus12:43
KamionKeybuk: right12:43
pittiok, then I do The Big Sed to fix that; thanks, guys12:43
KeybukI just consider "disk" to be jargon, short for "diskette"12:43
tfheenKamion: fount?  Is that legal?12:44
=== pitti has major trouble with keeping apart AE and BE spellings
pittiI can never quite remember whether grey/gray or -ize/-ise is AE or BE12:45
Kamiontfheen: very very old12:46
KamionI can never remember grey/gray myself12:46
KamionI use grey, but then I also used to use -ize before I got bored of it and switched to -ise12:47
KamionRiddell: hmm, well that worked, but for some reason the subsequent loadModule didn't seem to work12:47
KamionRiddell: do you care? I think it's probably more important to get it unloaded to avoid the annoying popups12:47
Keybukpitti: -ize/-ise is different depending which BE dictionary you use12:47
KeybukOxford prefer -ize, Cambridge prefer -ise12:48
RiddellKamion: no, I don't care about loading it back12:48
=== pitti guesses his writing is a wild mixture of both
KamionRiddell: righto, done then, I'll hope it's just a glitch12:48
tfheenI guess grey is british since it's Gandalf the Grey, not Gandalf the Gray.12:48
Riddellpitti: grey, -ise.  ignore the silly Oxford people12:49
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pittiRiddell: I'll get gray hear while thinking about that :)12:49
Keybukpitti: Cambridge says grey ...12:50
KeybukDavid appears to have hidden my OED12:50
tfheenalso, HTML only allows gray, which is annoying.  At least, it used to back in 1996.12:50
Ngtfheen: and center :(12:50
tfheengrey tended to be interpreted as green, which left me dumbfounded for a bit.12:50
RiddellI'm pretty sure CSS allows grey12:51
tfheenRiddell: HTML, not CSS.  This was back before CSS.12:51
Kamionhttp://www.w3.org/TR/html4/types.html says it's still only gray in HTML12:51
Keybukpitti: OED says grey too12:51
tfheenwhen HTML 2.0 was the new and shiny thing.12:51
Keybukso gray must be American12:51
Keybukthough both note that gray is a colour for horses12:51
ograKeybuk, meh, ltsp-client is the first service started in rc2 ... so num_services is still 012:51
Keybukogra: ?12:52
tfheenapart from the pink overload, I liked the explanation in http://www.bernzilla.com/item.php?id=23212:52
ograKeybuk, sorry, num_steps12:52
ograKeybuk, num_steps is initially set to 0, and the case condition breaks without adding 1 to it12:53
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ograso if ltsp-client is the first service in a runlevel num_steps is still zeroed ... and i dont get progressbar steps at all12:53
=== Keybuk is still failing to see your point
Keybukif ltsp-client is the first service, you don't want progress steps?12:54
ograi want them12:54
Keybukwell, you can't have them12:54
Keybukso there12:54
ograbut the code prevents me from getting them12:54
ograwell, it should add 1 to num_steps before the break12:54
Keybukthe code doesn't count the step that stops usplash, for obvious reasons12:54
Keybukno, it shouldn't12:54
Keybukotherwise the users will never *see* it hit 100% cause usplash gets stopped12:55
ograwell, if i make it the second service, i see a gap at the end of the progressbar12:55
Keybukit's zero based so it hits 100% then usplash stops12:55
ograit never gets to the full end12:55
Keybukthat's wrong12:55
Keybukif you make it the second service, then num_steps = 112:55
ograbut it gets to 90%12:55
Keybukso it would reach 100% after the end of the first step12:55
Keybukand you wouldn't see a gap12:55
ograi can live with that for now and will make ltsp-client the second service, but i think num_steps should be at least 12:56
Keybukno, it shouldn't12:56
ogralets talk about it in MV :)12:56
Keybukotherwise you'd never see the end of the progress bar12:56
Keybukit has to hit 100% before usplash it stopped12:56
Keybukhave you bothered to read rc?12:56
pittitfheen: wrt. bug 60448 you had some thoughts, too; I would rotate the current .xsession-errors to .xsession-errors.prev and create a fresh .x-e on login; is that fine for you?12:57
UbugtuMalone bug 60448 in xorg ".xsession_errors file grows out of control & saturates disk space" [High,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/6044812:57
Keybukit tells usplash to change the progress when the script run *FINISHES*12:57
Keybuknot before it starts12:57
Keybukso it's entirely correct that num_steps=0 if the display manager is the first thing12:57
Keybukbecause you want no steps for that entire runlevel12:57
KeybukI could believe there's a bug simply because it divides the progress bar up12:58
ograanyway, i'll make it the second service for now 12:58
Keybukit leaves the last third for the rc212:58
Keybukbut because there's nothing in rc2, it never actually fills that final third12:58
ograanother prob (with udev i guess)12:59
Keybukwith udev?!12:59
tfheenpitti: I'd prefer to have the file be resized in-place to not put random junk files in ~12:59
ograsince i added DO_NOT_SWITCH_VT i get a long delay for usb devices12:59
Keybukwhat the frak has udev got to do with anything?12:59
Keybukshow me a bootchart12:59
ograno keyboard or moouse input for quite some time (20-30secs)12:59
Keybukand /var/log/udev12:59
ograoh, there is an error on console ...01:00
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ograKeybuk, usb 4-1.2: device descriptor read/64, error -11001:01
=== Keybuk points at BenC
Keybukiz kernel boog01:02
Keybukor probably dodgy usb cable or something01:02
ograhmm, the client still uses -9 ... i should probably update first :)01:02
=== pitti boggles
pittitfheen: hm, weird - in my current edgy .x-e is cleaned already on login01:03
ograpitti, 01:04
ograogra@edubuntu:~/devel/edgy-ltsp$ ls -lh /home/ogra/.xsession-errors 01:04
ogra-rw------- 1 ogra ogra 652K 2006-10-05 12:49 /home/ogra/.xsession-errors01:04
ograi logged in a minute ago ...01:04
ograhere its not cleaned01:04
pittihm, for a fresh user it is for me01:04
pittimy own is 6.9KB and looks fresh, too01:05
ograwhat should clean it (note i'm not using gdm)01:05
tfheenpitti: hmm, weird.  The code doesn't look like it cleans it.01:05
pittiogra: that's what I'm wondering, too; /etc/X11/Xsession appends only01:05
dholbachheno: replaced gok with onboard01:05
pittimaybe gdm cleans it, I'll look01:05
ograthats wrong then :)01:06
ograXsession should clean it01:06
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pittia grep -r xsession-errors in /etc/ revealed nothing else01:06
RicardoPerezcarlos: ping01:06
carlosRicardoPerez: pong01:06
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KeybukKamion: do you have a moment to check over some code for me01:11
KamionKeybuk: sure01:11
pittiI don't get it -- modifying /etc/X11/Xsession doesn't seem to have any effect 01:11
pittiseb128: does gdm do some black magic which circumvents /etc/X11/Xsession?01:12
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seb128pitti: what do you mean?01:12
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ograpitti, how about adding the cleanup code to /etc/X11/Xsession.d in a separate script ?01:12
Keybukkamion: http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/migrate-inittab.pl.txt01:12
tucozHi, i am trying to track down this bug: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-ati/+bug/5269501:13
UbugtuMalone bug 52695 in xserver-xorg-video-ati "xorg-driver fglrx interferes with r300 dri" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  01:13
seb128pitti: do you pick the GNOME or the default system session from gdm?01:13
tucozI noticed that LIBGL_DRIVERS_PATH is set to the wrong path in my case. it is set to /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/dri/. do you know where to go from here, to see where that is exported?01:14
pittiogra, tfheen: so this seems to affect Kubuntu/Edubuntu only (the bug report is from a Kubuntu user, too)01:14
pittiseb128: hm, whatever is the default for a fresh user01:15
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ograpitti, i think Xsession.d is the right place ... probably one of the xorg_common scripts should do it01:15
pittiogra: I'm fine with changing the Xsession script, but I'd like to test it :)01:15
pittiseb128: I mean that changing /etc/X11/Xsession does not have *any* effect; it seems to be ignored when logging into gdm01:15
ograright, if it breaks gdm that would indeed be wrong ...01:16
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pittiogra: .d is too late01:16
KamionKeybuk: reading01:16
ograpitti, ok01:16
pittiogra: Xsession first creates/appends .xsession-errors and then executes .d01:16
KamionKeybuk: I'd use an arrayref for the elements of %gettys, rather than joining them with : and having to split them up again01:16
pittiogra: changing it won't break gdm, since gdm doesn't seem to use it in the first place :)01:17
KeybukKamion: yeah, I couldn't remember how to do those ;)01:17
KamionKeybuk: $gettys{$1} = [$rlevel, $process] ;01:17
Keybukoh, [ ]  01:18
pittiseb128: I suspect that it executes /etc/gdm/Xsession, but then I wonder who cleans up ~/.xsession-erros on login?01:18
KamionKeybuk: my ($rlevel, $process) = @$gettys{$_};01:18
Keybukhow do get stuff back out?01:18
=== Keybuk was trying ( )
tfheenajmitch: regarding the mono problem on the desktop cd, if f-spot is happy from a terminal, everything's fine, right?01:18
Keybuktoo much Python01:18
KamionKeybuk: or $gettys{$_}[0]  to access single elements01:18
KamionKeybuk: er, sorry, I think that should be @{$gettys{$_}}01:18
ograpitti, well, if gdm would choke because the files doesnt exists or something ... was my fear01:18
StevenKKamion: I think either work.01:19
Kamion{} binds less tightly than sigils01:19
Keybukmy brain rememberd it once you showed the example01:19
seb128pitti: hum, not sure, I'm finishing lunch and I'll have a look01:19
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tfheenKamion: or $gettys{$_}->[0] , iirc01:20
Kamiontfheen: yes; $gettys{$_}[0]  is syntactic sugar for that01:20
funmando you know if gcc SSP made some regressions ?01:21
=== tfheen has taken to preferring -> for dereferencing references in perl.
funmanlike packages working without the SSP, i.e. no segfaults , and triggering a stack smashing with SSP01:21
KamionStevenK: no, only @{...} works01:21
tfheenfunman: yes, sure.  emacs21, for instance.01:21
StevenKKamion: Yes, sorry, I just checked.01:22
torkelpitti: iirc "Gnome" does not run /etc/X11/Xsession, but "Default System Session" does01:22
funmantfheen: so what's wrong in that case, emacs or gcc ?01:22
pittiogra, seb128: gdm-2.16.1/./daemon/slave.c:wipe_xsession_errors (struct passwd *pwent,01:22
tfheenfunman: emacs.  One of the functions have a wrong parameter list.01:22
pittiso, gdm has its own code to wipe01:22
KamionStevenK: otherwise it's "dereference $foo to get a list, then get the first element of that ... hold on, why does this expression start with a @?"01:22
tfheenfunman: I Just Haven't Found Time To Fix It Yet.01:22
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ograpitti, ugh, even in .c01:22
StevenKKamion: *nod*01:22
tfheenfunman: how so?01:23
funmansorry ?01:23
tfheenfunman: any particular reason for you asking your question?01:23
funmanyes, problems with vlc01:23
tfheenfunman: I'm not aware of SSP breaking any correct C code, though, but I haven't investigated it closely; pitti might know better.01:23
funmani couldn't reproduce on a system without SSP, and a backtrace of the stack smashing learned me nothing01:24
pittiI don't ATM, sorry01:24
norberhello, mi name is norber and i asked a question in a ubuntu-es and they don know. my english is very bad, sorry.  i have a laptop and i buy a card audio usb. I want listen a song (example dover) by the two cards audio. Is possible?01:24
funmani have little debugging experience so i may not look correctly01:24
KamionKeybuk: ... need to get breakfast before reading the rest of this01:24
funmani emailed crimsun about that, he's the vlc package maintainer01:24
KeybukKamion: ok01:24
pittitorkel: doesn't seem to work for me; 'default system session' also uses the gdm one01:24
KeybukI need to run to Tesco to get bagels, so we'll discuss it after lunch-time:)01:24
=== pitti installs kdm for testing this
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sivangah Tesco.. if only they had that cinemon malt loaf so I could take some with me back :)01:30
sivangKeybuk: how are their bagles? the garlic bread rolls for heating up in the oven are quite nice01:30
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pittiseb128: ok, nevermind then; I use xdm for testing now, it works there01:31
ograpitti, wonderful :)01:31
ogranext time use ldm :P01:31
doko_smurf: ping01:32
seb128pitti: is gdm doing something wrong? I've not really followed on the issue I was having lunch ;)01:32
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ograseb128, its doing something on its own that should be done in Xsession01:33
pittitfheen: ok, I'll do the truncating then for {k,edu}buntu01:33
seb128any reason why it should be done in Xsession?01:33
ograso it was broken for non gdm users01:33
tfheenpitti: cheers.01:33
ograseb128, for (k,x,l)dm, yes01:34
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pittiseb128: well, not exactly wrong, but we cannot control the ~/.xsession-errors handling in /etc/X11/Xsession[.d]  scripts01:40
seb128pitti: should I patch the gdm code out?01:40
StevenK% head -n 1 debian/dbmail.init01:43
StevenK#!/bin/sh --posix01:43
pittiseb128: not for my sake, I don't mind deleting the previous session's .xsession-errors; tfheen might do, though01:43
=== StevenK reloads his shotgun.
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tfheenpitti: it's not "OH MY GOD THE SKY IS FALLING"-bad, but I'd prefer if we didn't, yes.01:43
_ionstevenk: Wow. :-)01:44
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StevenKseb128: Stupid question, if you have a second?01:44
pittitfheen: what do you think of that:01:45
pitti# truncate ERRFILE if it is too big to avoid disk usage DoS01:45
pittiif [ "`stat -c%s \"$ERRFILE\"`" -gt 500000 ] ; then01:45
pitti  F=`tail -c 500000 "$ERRFILE"` && echo "$F" > "$ERRFILE"01:45
tfheenpitti: I'd prefer if we saved the last N bytes.01:45
pittiwith N == ?01:45
pittiI thought 0.5MB is more than enough01:46
seb128StevenK: don't ask to ask just ask01:46
pepsimanwhat would truncate it if I never log out?01:46
tfheenoh, but your solution will truncate it to 0 bytes when it's bigger than 500k?01:46
tfheenoh, sorry01:46
tfheenmea culpa, I can't read.01:46
pittitfheen: no, it takes the last half MB01:46
StevenKseb128: Are you aware of any issues of font colors in progress bars?01:46
pittiI just need the F=`` echo F juggling to avoid a temporary file01:47
tfheenpitti: then it's fine; I'm obviously blind. :-)01:47
tfheenpitti: or you could just use sponge01:47
pittitfheen: ok, great; I tested it with xdm, works fine01:47
seb128StevenK: there is a bug open on ubuntulooks about not enough contrast between text and font color01:47
pittitfheen: sponge is in universe01:47
tfheenpitti: that's easily fixed, though.01:47
pittitfheen: and essentially it doesn't do much else than F=``; echo $F>, does it?01:47
pittibut in general yes, sponge is useful01:48
StevenKseb128: I'm seeing strangeness on my Edgy machine - the color under the "done" part of the progress bar is white and gray.01:48
=== pitti appends || true for robustness' sake
tfheenit doesn't do much else in this particular case, no.  Shells aren't too fond of null bytes and such, though01:48
pepsimanseb128: in qemu I couldn't see the edgy progress bar move at all01:49
pittitfheen: true; well, I better use a temporary file then01:49
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imbrandondoko ping01:58
imbrandonmoins pitti and tfheen01:59
pittihi imbrandon 01:59
Seveasmjg59, did you know usplash currently is rather broken? writing text and usplash_put_part generate weird-colored output02:01
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pittiKeybuk: can you please approve hal (bug 56484) and cupsys (bug 54277) uploads to dapper-proposed02:06
UbugtuMalone bug 56484 in hal "hal does not detect non-ATAPI CD-ROM drives" [Unknown,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/5648402:06
UbugtuMalone bug 54277 in cupsys "cupsd can't access /var/log/cups/error_log permission denied" [High,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/5427702:07
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tfheenheno: what's happening with https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/casper/+bug/58836 ?  Is it still valid?02:18
UbugtuMalone bug 58836 in casper "F5 options need to be linked to the right casper options" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  02:18
raphinkanyone has seen/worked on http://www.kde-apps.org/content/show.php?content=14779 ?02:22
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pittiRiddell: bug 58636, isn't that actually a langpack issue? or are kcmlocale.mo files not shipped in the langpacks for some reason?02:26
UbugtuMalone bug 58636 in language-pack-kde-ka "language-support-kde-ka - even then installed georgian users can't see georgian KDE UI." [Undecided,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/5863602:26
pittiRiddell: i. e. that should fix itself with the next langpack update, right?02:26
Riddellpitti: they havn't translated kcmlocale, or hadn't at the last langpack update02:27
pittiRiddell: it seems to be translated in Rosetta02:27
Riddellpitti: so it does, so yes it'll be fixed with the next langpack update02:28
pittibut daily edgy langpacks do not have kcmlocale.po, hmm02:28
Riddellpitti: for ka or all?  I'm sure I've seen it in other languages02:28
pittiI looked in -ka-base02:28
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pittiRiddell: I cannot find such a file; maybe 'kcmlocale' is not the correct domain name02:29
pittioh, silly me, it's there for other languages02:30
Riddellit was only translated for ka three days ago02:30
pittiRiddell: ok, then Rosetta probably just lags behind a bit02:31
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_ionIs there a plan to move ntfs-3g to main?02:36
tfheenRiddell: Have you tried to reproduce https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/casper/+bug/62693 with a current daily?  IIRC, it's fixed now.02:37
UbugtuMalone bug 62693 in casper "kubuntu accessibility features don't run" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  02:37
Riddelltfheen: no I havn't, I'll give it a shot when I find a minute02:37
tfheenRiddell: cool, thanks.  I had a silly syntax error which probably broke it.02:38
tfheen(which is now fixed)02:38
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cucohi, i am building a package for ubuntu, which needs to create some mysql tables. on debian, i used the extra file: debian.cnf. this does not work on ubuntu. any ideas whay can i do...?02:41
cucothe question is, how do i install sql tables from postinst scripts ...?02:42
tfheenrodarvus: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/casper/+bug/59618 ; should casper preseed xorg's config or should xorg look at /proc/cmdline?02:42
UbugtuMalone bug 59618 in casper ""Safe graphics mode" doesn't use VESA" [Undecided,Confirmed]  02:42
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rodarvustfheen, I think preseeding xorg config would be a a more generic solution (as other options could be forced in the same way) - also making xorg look into /proc/cmdline would make us diverge from upstream (debian)02:46
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tfheenrodarvus: ok.  Do you remember offhand what I need to preseed it with?02:46
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rodarvusnot from the top of my mind, I'm sorry :/02:47
tfheennp, I'll poke it myself, then02:47
tfheen      if [ -n "$XFORCEVESA" ]  || [ -n "$(grep xforcevesa /proc/cmdline)" ] ; then02:48
tfheen        DEFAULT_DRIVER=vesa02:49
tfheenis there already.02:49
tfheen      fi02:49
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jdongaah! what on earth!03:08
jdongsince when did ich8 stop working?03:08
jdongyikes... isn't kernel freeze today?03:08
tfheenit is03:09
jdonglooks like bug 63516....03:09
UbugtuMalone bug 63516 in linux-source-2.6.17 "ICH8 doesn't work" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/6351603:09
jdongthat's a pretty serious regression... will it get fixed after freeze?03:10
zulafaik ben is working regressions03:10
StevenKPhew, I have an ICH603:10
zuler...workin on regressions03:10
tfheenjdong: it's targetted for 6.1003:11
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Keybukpitti: they're on my list03:14
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tfheenhmm, why is usplash dark blue on black?  It's not the most readable colour choice possible.03:36
Keybukblack on black?03:37
tfheenno, dark blue on black.03:37
tfheenit's possible to read, but hard.03:37
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dholbachiwj: hello! can I tempt you to have a look at bug 63814? it's about a breakage of epiphany, which gives upstream a bit of pain (lots and lots of edgy users complain about crashes at bugs.gnome.org). I tried to apply the patch he was referring to, but didn't have much luck.03:44
UbugtuMalone bug 63814 in firefox "please include patch for a highly visible crash in epiphany" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/6381403:44
sivangKeybuk: lol:03:45
sivang * Undo Sivang's evil, evil, evil patching of things in the debian03:45
sivang    directory and just apply the patch, damnit!03:45
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KeybukKamion: did you get a further look at my Perl?03:45
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iwjdholbach: Looking at it now.03:46
dholbachiwj: Gracias.03:47
iwjThe patch looks reasonable to me.03:49
sivangiwj: have you seen an issue in which everytime you run firefox it thinks the previous session was abruptly interruped and thus want sto "resotre session || ignore and start new||03:49
iwjDo you need this fixing urgently ?  If not I'll just assign myself the bug and apply the patch next time I'm fiddling with firefox.03:49
sivangiwj: ?03:49
iwjsivang: Yes, but only once when my whole system was completely hosed.03:49
sivangiwj: also, bookmarks are for some reason not working on my firefox, that is I can click 'add' but nothing happens form the add bookmark dialog03:50
sivangiwj: it's constantly reproduciable here03:50
iwjObviously there's something wrong with your profile.03:50
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dholbachiwj: the count of dups at http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=354790 is still bearable, I think03:51
UbugtuGnome bug 354790 in Mozilla interaction "crash on plugin native window destruction [@gtk_widget_destroy - ~nsPluginNativeWindowGtk2] " [Critical,Resolved: notgnome]  03:51
sivangiwj: any info I can provide to help fix the two issues?03:51
dholbachiwj: I wanted to let you know, because my own attempts failed.03:51
iwjsivang: TBH, given that I'm probably not going to have time to debug this, your best bet is to make a new profile and just copy the bookmarks across.  You could also try deleting stuff semirandomly from your profile directory.  (Take a copy of the bookmarks first.)03:51
iwjdholbach: You tried to apply that patch and failed ?03:51
sivangiwj: I already lost the bookmarks , so that's going to be easy ;-)03:52
dholbachiwj: yeah, see my last comment on the bug03:52
sivangiwj: (4-5 dist upgrades ago)03:52
dholbachiwj: but it FTBFS at another place (so it seemed to me).03:52
iwjdholbach: Oh, yes.03:52
iwjdholbach: How odd.03:52
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iwjsivang: :-/03:52
dholbachiwj: maybe chpe will know what to do about it03:52
smurfdoko_: pong03:52
iwjdholbach: That doesn't seem related at all.03:52
dholbachiwj: I built it in an up-to-date edgy amd64 pbuilder.03:53
iwjdholbach: Are you able to build the unpatched source ?  (I wouldn't recommend messing with this without ccache and a huge buffer cache, though.)03:53
dholbachi'll try - I'm doing bug triage in the meantime - so that's going to be fine ;-)03:53
iwjdholbach: No, don't try.03:53
iwjLet me do it.  I know all the tricks.03:54
dholbachiwj: Thanks a lot - I knew you'd be way cleverer about it. ;-)03:54
iwjI've just been through the pain and know how to avoid about half of it ...03:54
=== iwj reconfigures the bug.
dholbachYooohoo. :-)03:55
iwjChase me if it gets too bad and I'll push it up my todo list.03:56
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KamionKeybuk: I'd use 'if ($idx < @job)' rather than 'if ($job[$idx] )'03:56
dholbachiwj: chpe will be happy.03:57
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Kamionstill looking over the rest of it03:57
=== iwj checks that 1ubuntu3 built on amd64. Yes. Hmm.
Kamionsivang: IIRC moving sessionstore.js aside fixed that for me03:58
Kamionas far as I can tell firefox doesn't delete that file after restoring the session, so after one crash it bugs you about it evermore03:58
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sivangKamion: did you experience lost bookmarks as well? 03:59
Kamionsivang: n03:59
Kamionthis is for the bug where "restore session" appears all the time04:00
sivangKamion: k, thank you04:00
smurfWould anybody like to figure out why the Live CD no longer works on an old iBook? :-/04:00
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KamionKeybuk: what's the open/close pair at the end for? could do with a comment at least04:01
Keybukjust to touch the file so upstart reloads it04:02
KamionKeybuk: if it's just to touch the file, 'my $time = time; utime $time, $time, "/etc/event.d/$_"' is more usual04:02
Keybukthat won't cause an inotify CLOSE_WRITE event?04:03
Kamionoh, silly inotify04:03
KamionKeybuk: do you plan to migrate stuff like sulogin, rcS, rc configuration?04:03
KeybukI really don't see how that's possible04:03
Keybukit would be too much of a headache to get right04:03
KamionKeybuk: also, %ids appears to be unused apart from checking for duplicates04:03
Kamionfair enough04:04
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sivangKamion: thanks, that worked.04:06
=== tfheen kicks gksu in ze nuts
KamionKeybuk: otherwise, looks fine to me ...04:13
simiratfheen: behave!04:13
sivangnice, after removing the profile firefox tells me to restart ubuntu04:14
tfheensimira: it started!04:14
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webbenI've noticed that gnome-orca is marked as "Low urgency" on Launchpad. Is there a mechanism for expressing a desire that a04:47
webbenit should be higher urgency?04:47
seb128gnome-orca is a package?04:49
seb128what does the urgency mean for the package? where do you read that?04:49
StevenKseb128: It's probably the upload details04:49
webbenseb128, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gnome-orca04:49
webbenon the lefthand side under "Maintainer defaults"04:49
seb128ah, that's the upload04:50
seb128the urgency setting is of no use with launchpad04:50
webbenwhat does it mean then?04:50
seb128it's useful for Debian to determinate of fast the package has to move to testing04:50
webbenthat isn't related to how important the package is?04:50
seb128maybe launchpad should not display that info04:51
seb128packages have no "importance"04:51
seb128they are to main or universe basically04:51
webbenthen what does determine how fast a package moves to testing?04:51
seb128there is no testing04:52
seb128dapper is stable04:52
seb128nothing migrate to stable04:52
seb128and next one is edgy04:52
seb128and we upload without delay to edgy04:52
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webbenyou mean this urgency stuff has no relevance to how ubuntu does things at all?04:54
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webbenah okay then :)04:56
seb128it's used by Debian04:56
seb128and we have no interest to change the format for Ubuntu04:56
seb128so it's around, just not useful04:56
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webbeni see04:56
seb128have to run for half an hour, bbl04:56
webbenseb128, thanks for explaining that; bye for now :)04:57
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kristogdo you know if a people.ubuntu.org service is planned?05:00
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ograKamion, i pm'd you the logs from our conversation about the edubuntu name change ...05:05
ograi think you can revert it safely05:07
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Fadehrmn. known bug that python upgrade breaks in pycentral?05:09
janimopitti: hi, can you review system-config-printer and python-cups in time for RC?05:18
pittijanimo: erm, you do not seriously want that for edgy??05:18
janimopitti: of course I do. why?05:18
pittiwe are past UVF and FF and approaching RC freeze and such05:18
janimothat was the whole point of it05:18
janimowell it's not an UVF as it sat in universe for a while05:19
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pittithat's indeed bold05:19
janimowell since there;s no other printer add gui in xubuntu there;s not much to break :)05:19
pittijanimo: I'd like to get mdz's blessing for turning our printer GUI upside down at that point05:19
janimoand it's one of the most requested pieces05:19
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janimopitti:  uhm, for xubuntu only05:19
tfheenI thought pitti enabled the web interface now?05:19
pittitfheen: I did05:20
janimoit is not for ubunt obviously05:20
pittijanimo: hmm05:20
janimonot edgy anyway05:20
janimopitti: did you think I want to replace gnome-cups-manager :) ?05:20
pittijanimo: well, I didn't test it at all so far (I postponed that to feisty on my personal list)05:20
ograpitti, are we allowed to leak f-f already ? 05:21
janimopitti: ok, I did not ever think of having that in ubuntu edgy that;s for sure. We may have had some miscommunication05:21
tfheenjanimo: hard freeze is in seven days, jfyi.05:21
janimopitti: it;s strictly for xubuntu, as right now the only way to add aprinter is via the web ui05:21
janimotfheen: I know, but if this app is not there there's nothning in its place05:22
janimoso the risk is low05:22
janimoit is one of the most impiortant edgy xubuntu specs05:22
funmancrimsun: till not there?05:22
janimoI specifically chose this route as opposed to patching gnome-cups0-manager to gtk onlyness, to avoid interfeering with ubuntu desktop05:22
pittijanimo: the point is, if we put it in main now and it screws something up, we have to support it05:22
=== tfheen is leaning towards pitti's stance here -- we're _way_ past FF.
janimopitti: AIUI, the xubuntu bits are not 'reaaly' supported even if in main05:23
janimothere for easy CDing05:23
janimopitti: that tool is shipped by FC6 next week by the way05:23
pittijanimo: how do you mean? we support all main things, and if there is a grave bug past release in the printer config app, we have to deal with it in -updates and such05:23
janimoso it cannot be that bad, but admittedly it may expect something else in debian05:24
tfheenthat's a slippery slope once edubuntu starts to have a xubuntu ltsp modes as well, too.05:24
janimoanyway myself gauvain and others on xubuntu-devel tested it and it worked fine05:24
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pittiwell, I do not have a good feeling about it TBH05:24
janimotfheen: I hope that for edgy+1 xubuntu and ubuntu printer tools will be the same05:24
pittiI'm fine with taking a look at it, but I cannot judge the releasability quality and compatibility with printer models and access modes in a short time05:25
janimobut I would not like to go another cycle without graphical 'add new printer'05:25
pittijanimo: I hope that, too05:25
pittiI so much want to get rid of g-c-m05:25
pittithat's why I really appreciated geting printer-config05:25
pittibut I never imagined it for edgy05:25
janimopitti: so either this fedora tool or till's drake can take over in edgy +105:25
pittijanimo: ok, as I said, I'll review it, but promotion should get past mdz05:26
janimopitti: I thought it was clear from the start that I uploaded for wide testing for ubuntu edgy+1 but also for xubuntu edgy05:26
janimoafter all it was speccied in paris :)05:26
janimopitti: as for supported, jbailey said they are not staffed for xubuntu support05:26
janimoso it is in main but not supported for customers05:26
janimothe annuncements also specify community supported05:27
pittioh, I wasn't aware that we make that kind of distinction05:27
janimopitti: well, not written anywhere as far as I can tell, it's just the way it is AIUI05:27
ogratfheen, thats still at least one release away ...05:27
janimoI do not mind as long as CDs can be rolled05:28
tfheenjanimo: which spec would that be?  I can't see any edgy-targeted specs which are relevant?05:28
tfheenogra: hence "slippery slope"05:28
pittiseb128: I'd appreciate your comment on u-devel wrt. 'Edgy "Crash Reports"'05:28
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ograpitti, just point at edubuntu, "they're rewriting kdeedu so why should we support non gnome apps" :P05:29
seb128pitti: I was going to reply05:29
janimotfheen: https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-printer-config05:29
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pittiseb128: ah, thank you05:30
seb128pitti: does apport still limit the dump to 100M?05:30
pittiseb128: I'm not sure at that point what to do TBH05:30
pittiseb128: no, the default is 200 MB now05:30
tfheenjanimo: it's not targeted for any release, though05:31
seb128pitti: my main issue with apport is that bugzilla get over 500 ubuntu bugs a week atm and we are already cracking under bug flood without those05:31
pittiseb128: right05:31
seb128pitti: there is no way we would cope with that amount of bug05:31
pittiseb128: if gnome is happy with getting b-b reports, can cope with it, and the workflow works fine, there's little reason to change it at that point05:32
tfheenjanimo: in the future, _please_ make sure that anything you want in is actually targetted.  Stuff which isn't targetted (be it bugs, features, whatever) fall off our radar and we end up using lots of time rescuing it.05:32
tfheenjanimo: also, implementation status "unknown" at this point is, well, not useful.05:32
janimotfheen: ok, I somehow thought in parsi that accepted means targeted at edgy05:32
janimoand then forgot about the  issue05:33
tfheenjanimo: and it's not approved either?05:33
pittiseb128: I guess we need an one-click gnome upstream bug reporting and automatic symbolic stack traces before we switch that?05:33
pittiok, I'm off for a bit05:33
janimotfheen: I guess I should have kept track of the specs closer05:33
tfheenjanimo: I'm not trying to pick on you; it's just that those seemingly-minor things end up causing us lots of grief.05:33
janimofor this specific one imlementation meant, package fedora tool and m,assage ot work without some deps, and wait to get on the CD05:34
seb128pitti: right05:34
ogratfheen, and that specs needed to be implemented before FF05:34
tfheenjanimo: wouldn't the web UI be acceptable for edgy and we can get this into edgy+1?05:34
janimotfheen: I know you are not. nevertheless I am sorry for not being more disciplined about it :)05:34
ograbut as long as its xubuntu only i dont mind ...05:34
janimotfheen: the web interface scred people in dapper05:34
tfheenjanimo: also, you not being an employee means I can't shout that loudly at you for not following procedures. :-P05:35
tfheenjanimo: ok, so you have something you're _confident_ that works which is just now working except for it being in universe, is that the situation?05:35
janimotfheen: right05:36
tfheenjanimo: ok, let's hear what pitti says when he's back, then.05:37
tfheenpitti: ^^05:37
janimohe said he'll wait on matt's approval IIRC05:37
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janimoGloubiboulga: ping05:39
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KeybukOH, WOW05:41
KeybukI HAVE A GEM OF A BUG05:41
Keybuktfheen: are you listening? :)05:41
tfheenKeybuk: loud and clear.05:41
Keybukyou use the usplash TEXT_URGENT thing on the Live CD so that when it shuts down/restarts, it says "Press ENTER" ?05:41
Keybukwell, imagine for a moment that the user is a bit lazy05:41
Keybukand left the install sitting there for, oh, a few minutes05:42
Keybukwhat do you think happens? :)05:42
tfheenKeybuk: I change the timeout to a day, iirc.05:42
Keybukusplash definitely timed out05:42
Keybukand I was sitting at a little _ cursor05:42
tfheenlet me see05:42
henoI've seen that too05:42
tfheenheno: did you see me asking you about accessibility status?  If you could look at the casper bug about it, that'd be good05:43
henotfheen: I'll look05:43
tfheen    /sbin/usplash_write "TIMEOUT 86400"05:44
tfheen    /sbin/usplash_write "TEXT-URGENT Please remove the disc, close the tray (if any)"05:44
tfheen    /sbin/usplash_write "TEXT-URGENT and press ENTER to continue"05:44
Keybukcould the console blanker kill usplash?05:44
tfheenhmm, maybe.05:44
NgI have  abug I need to report that we've noticed on pretyt much all of our server tests of the live CD where rebooting just leaves us at a blinking _05:44
Keybukno, I see what happened05:44
Keybukyou rolled a 32-bit int :)05:45
Ngis that likely to be the same thing?05:45
tfheenKeybuk: 86400 should fit comfortably into a 32 bit int.05:45
Keybuk86,400,000,000 is rather bigger than INT_MAX05:45
Keybuktimeout is stored internally in usex05:45
Keybukuh sec!05:45
Keybukbecause it uses usleep() ?05:45
tfheenand seriously, it needs a way to say "don't time out, ever"05:45
tfheentimeout 0 used to do that05:46
Keybukyeah, timeout 0 did that, until Seveas broke it05:46
Kamionusplash_down still sends TIMEOUT 005:46
Seveaswhat did I break?05:46
KeybukKamion: no it doesn't, I fixed that05:46
Kamionah, my checkout is out of date05:46
KamionKeybuk: "fixed"05:46
Kamionsurely usplash_down was correct and usplash was wrong :)05:46
Keybukseb128: GNOME Setting Daemon fuckage on fresh edgy install - known?05:47
KeybukKamion: one was easier to fix ;P05:47
seb128Keybuk: depending05:47
Keybukseb128: on?05:47
ograreligious usplash wars 05:47
SeveasI'm more worried about color b0rkage in usplash since r8205:47
seb128Keybuk: there is a bug happening one time every 40 boots05:47
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Seveasit breaks all themes 05:47
Keybukseb128: this was the second boot05:47
tfheenKeybuk: we could just make it use a long and only lesser arches would have to care.  Or fix timeout 005:47
Kamionusplash is so much the village bike05:47
Kamionor the core-dev bike05:48
seb128Keybuk: mdz got it once on desktopCD boot and never since05:48
Keybuktfheen: <g> "lesser arches" being anything not amd64?05:48
tfheenKamion: we should build it a shed.05:48
Keybukseb128: I just got it on a vmware install05:48
tfheenKeybuk: hey, ia64 will make do as well05:48
seb128Keybuk: do you have anything useful to the logs? is it reproducible?05:48
Keybukseb128: which logs?05:48
seb128Keybuk: ~/.xsession-errors05:48
ogra.xsession-errors ?05:48
Keybuknothing in there05:48
Kamionor make it a uint64_t; we have C9905:48
Keybukwell, just some C chatter05:49
Kamionint64_t rather05:49
ograseb128, i've seen it too on ltsp ... 05:49
KeybukKamion: not unless you compile -std=c99 ?05:49
Keybukor has that changed now05:49
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seb128Keybuk: we have one bug being that gst_init() seem to fail sometimes, I'm going to look at that one soon05:49
Kamionand hope it doesn't overflow the long in struct timeval tv_sec05:49
tfheenKamion: sure, that's fine, but I'd actually rather just have us fix timeout 0 or timeout -1 to work.05:49
ograbut only very rarely and not reproducable05:49
Kamiontfheen: yeah05:49
KamionKeybuk: we could do that if necessary05:49
tfheen(either's fine, but both blow up ATM, iirc)05:49
henotfheen: could you give me a bug # ? I can't see anything obvious05:49
KeybukKamion: I agree with tollef here05:49
Kamionyeah, so do I really05:50
Seveasis there anyone besides mjg59 with an svgalib fetish around?05:50
NgKeybuk: tfheen: sorry, not intending to pester, but did you see what I said above? should I still file it?05:50
Keybuk(though I never understood why that timeout 0 was in splash_down to start off with)05:50
giftnudeltfheen: not -1, so that you can use unsigned numbers, you don't need negative timeouts05:50
tfheenheno: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/casper/+bug/5883605:50
UbugtuMalone bug 58836 in casper "F5 options need to be linked to the right casper options" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  05:50
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tfheengiftnudel: seriously, we only care about timeouts which are in the range of "seconds" to "a couple of minutes" or "never".05:51
tfheenit's not like we're strained for bits.05:51
tfheenNg: it's mostly fixed already, apart from usplash being silly.05:52
tfheenNg: it's actually the same bug we're talking about.05:52
Ngtfheen: that's fine, thanks :)05:52
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henotfheen: there are no recent updates on that bug. I need more context. I was off IRC for a bit, testing, rebooting, etc.05:53
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Keybukseb128: seems to be intermittent, yes05:53
giftnudelseb128: gnome-settings-daemon doesn't start after logout, is that known?05:53
seb128giftnudel: yeah, nothing is supposed to start after logout05:53
seb128things are supposed to stop on logout05:54
giftnudelseb128: ;) , I mean on second logon05:54
seb128I have the issue sometimes, not every time though05:54
giftnudelhmm, I have it everytime ...05:54
funmanare there any deadline for update packages of universe ?05:54
seb128Keybuk, giftnudel: I'll patch gnome-settings-daemon to have some verbose log and will ping you back then to get a log about the issue05:55
funmani just fixed a serious bug in vlc05:55
seb128funman: one week ago05:55
seb128funman: ah? bug fixing, still plenty of time05:55
funmannice :)05:55
giftnudelseb128: ok, I have time ...05:55
elmoseb128: do you know offhand what package the network properties dialog comes from?05:55
seb128giftnudel: have time for?05:55
funmani'm waiting for crimsun to come back and i'll inform him05:55
giftnudelseb128: for testing05:55
seb128elmo: gnome-system-tools05:55
elmoseb128: danke schoen05:56
seb128de rien ;)05:56
giftnudelseb128: (the next few days)05:56
seb128giftnudel: a few min, I finish that reply on ubuntu-devel about GNOME bugs05:56
seb128k, cool, thank you05:56
giftnudelI have that too05:56
eraccHi folks. I asked this in #ubuntu but never saw an answer so decided I'd ask people more likely to know. Why are there no webmin packages in Dapper nor in Edgy?05:56
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tfheenheno: is it still valid?  If so, what needs to be fixed?05:57
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Kamioneracc: 'cos they were removed from Debian05:57
eraccOuch. I'm looking to switch our servers to ubuntu server but I rely on webmin a lot. :-(05:58
Kamioneracc: see http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=34389705:58
UbugtuDebian bug 343897 in ftp.debian.org "ftp.debian.org: Please remove all webmin related packages" [Wishlist,Closed]  05:58
henotfheen: I haven't tested a CD since you fixed that syntax bug a few days ago. I saw it in the changelog now though so I'll DL and test05:59
tfheenheno: thanks.05:59
eraccI guess I can get the package from webmin.com then. Thanks, Kamion.05:59
tfheenheno: RC freeze is in a week and I would hate us to not have good accessibility because of some stupid bug somewhere, hence me pestering you now rather than in a week. :-)05:59
henotfheen: yes, please pester about this stuff!06:00
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henoIt sort of balances out my pestering :)06:00
tfheenheno: if you could get kubuntu accessibility tested too, that'd be excellent.06:00
henoyep, will do06:01
tfheenheno: it's also so I don't become a blocking point -- I'm starting to do full-time RM work on monday or so, and won't have time to hack casper then06:01
Gloubiboulgajanimo, quick pong06:03
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Kamioneracc: I believe that's the best and recommended approach at the moment, yes06:06
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tfheenseb128: http://librarian.launchpad.net/2924235/casper-1.56-no-eject-hotkey.patch should work for disabling the "eject" hotkey, right?06:08
janimoGloubiboulga: sent you a mail 06:08
seb128tfheen: I think so06:09
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janimoGloubiboulga: the idea is to get multibuild.mk in as it is, and polish afterwards06:09
seb128tfheen: keyboard key you mean, right?06:09
tfheenseb128: yes.06:09
janimoGloubiboulga: or we can miss RC06:09
tfheenseb128: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/casper/+bug/34643 is the bug06:09
UbugtuMalone bug 34643 in Baltix "Live CD can be inadvertently ejected via hotkey" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  06:09
seb128tfheen: because if you press on the drive button it's going directly to g-v-m06:09
Gloubiboulgajanimo, ok06:09
tfheenseb128: can we turn that off?  Having people eject the live cd while it's running is.. bad.06:09
funmancrimsun: i hope you'll be happy to know that the vlc bug is know fixed in svn repository06:10
Gloubiboulgajanimo, I'm away for a moment, I'll ping Martin & Seb when I'll be back06:10
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janimoGloubiboulga: it does not affect other packages and the ones that could use it wll have a few extra lines no?06:10
janimoat least until a cleaner way is found06:10
Gloubiboulgajanimo, right06:10
seb128tfheen: ask pitti about that one he probably knows better, it's hal,g-v-m magic06:10
tfheenseb128: ok, thanks.06:10
seb128the patch you pointed should work fine for the keyboard multimedia key06:10
tfheenyeah, understood.06:10
tfheenpitti: how can I make pressing the hardware eject button not do anything?  Having people eject the live cd while it's running makes the world blow up.06:11
janimoGloubiboulga: sure, thanks06:11
tfheenhmm, should we mail u-d-a about the string freeze?06:11
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seb128tfheen: should the drive be locked while something is using it?06:19
seb128tfheen: I mean, eject usually doesn't work if you are using the CD06:20
tfheenseb128: yes, it has lots of stuff mounted from it.06:20
tfheenseb128: it's just for the desktop CD.06:20
ogratfheen, you can force lock it from casper 06:20
ograi can give you some python snippet06:20
tfheenogra: casper can't use python.06:20
tfheenC or shell, please.06:21
tfheenand it won't help if something unlocks it..06:21
ograhmm, no idea how that works in shell or C though 06:21
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tfheenwhat does the python code look like?06:21
ograwe use it for the opposite in ltsp clients to force unlock it06:21
ografcntl.ioctl(f, CDROM.CDROM_LOCKDOOR, 0)06:22
ogravery simple 06:22
kristogtfheen: do you have time for speak about bluetooth?06:22
ograits locked if you set it to 106:22
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funmanor cat /proc/sys/dev/cdrom/lock06:22
tfheenkristog: I don't know much about bluetooth, but sure.06:22
tfheenogra: 'k, thanks.06:23
ogratfheen, it might be that pitti just sets the sysctl bit for it now06:23
pittitfheen: hm, funny; it took two releases to make the CD eject button work properly, and all sorts of people complain that it didn't :)06:23
tfheenpitti: haha. :-)06:23
pittitfheen: in fact I find that quite useful - I often eject the CD and just reboot, instead of shutting down :)06:23
kristogthom: ah sorry, i saw your name in the changelog of bluez-utils :(06:24
kristogtfheen: ^06:24
tfheenkristog: well, I uploaded it for something or another, I can't remember.  Anyway, what's your question?06:24
pittitfheen: well, if there's a good reason to disable the button, we can certainly hack a gconf key into g-v-m to inhibit ejection06:25
pittibut frankly, it's a hardware button, why shouldn't it work?06:25
tfheenpitti: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/casper/+bug/34643 is the bug.06:25
UbugtuMalone bug 34643 in Baltix "Live CD can be inadvertently ejected via hotkey" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  06:25
kristogtfheen: ATM bt-suite in ubuntu edgy is useless, if you try to scan for devices nothing will discover06:26
kristogtfheen: 59222, https://launchpad.net/bugs/5665106:27
UbugtuMalone bug 56651 in bluez-utils "Missing passkey-agent binary" [Undecided,Confirmed]  06:27
tfheenkristog: oh, that.  I've been meaning to fix that, actually.06:27
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kristogtfheen: ah ok, so you are working on them :) cool06:27
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tfheenSeveas: Ubugtu is buggy.  When it gets URLs like the one above it shouldn't say "baltix", it should pick the ubuntu one.06:28
tfheenkristog: so many bugs so much time.. That I am intending to fix it doesn't mean I'll get around to it06:28
ogratfheen, i asked for that ages ago ... Seveas just likes balitx :P06:28
_ionHmm, apport-retrace -d fails with KeyError. I'll check Malone a bit later.06:28
kristogtfheen: uh :) ehhee :)06:28
pitti_ion: I bet I know the reason06:29
pitti_ion: and I also bet that you didn't yet upgrade to 0.2606:29
AstralJavaSheesh, devs, I'm sorry to burst into this like I didn't know you're busy enough, but what have you done to Edgy?! It's insanely fast, and still manages to use less battery than Dapper did! Thank you for making protable computing so much more enjoyable! :)06:29
_ion    needed_deps.add((pkg, dependency_versions[pkg] ))06:29
_ionii  apport         0.26           automatically generate crash reports for deb06:29
tfheenkristog: send me a mail about it and I'll try to get it tomorrow?06:29
tfheenkristog: tfheen@ubuntu.com06:29
pitti_ion: you didn't click on 'report bug', but ignored the crash and then tried to apply apport-retrace to it, right?06:29
AstralJavaprotable == portable06:29
kristogtfheen: ok, thank you06:30
pitti_ion: oh, ok, then I lost my bet, sorry :)06:30
_ionpitti: I clicked report bug, and then ran apport-retrace -s -d /var/crash/_bin_sh.1005.crash06:30
pittiAstralJava: oh, sorry, we'll get that fixed :-P06:30
pitti_ion: yeah, there's probably a bug in that function which figures out the dependencies06:30
_ion(I tested it with sh -c 'kill -SEGV $$', /bin/sh hasn't actually crashed. )06:30
kristogtfheen: i will try to send you patches for them.06:31
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pitti_ion: ugh, I bet there's a realpath() missing somewher06:31
pitti_ion: can you please file a bug? I cannot care for it right now06:31
_ionpitti: Yes, as i said, will do it a bit later.06:31
AstralJavapitti: Hands off!! :)06:32
Seveastfheen, launchpad changed again and I haven't yet modified the bots06:32
Seveaslaunchpad devs should stop doing that06:32
ograSeveas, liar ... youre a secret balix dev ... admit !06:33
_ionDo the bots screenscrape the launchpad website?06:33
Seveas_ion, no06:33
Seveasthere is a nice rfc822 version of bug overviews06:34
Seveas(after I repeatedly and loudly complained that screenscraping broke all the time)06:34
Seveasbut changing Unknown to Undecided confuses ubugtu06:35
mdzpitti: printer stuff -> if it only affects Xubuntu, it's janimo's call06:37
pittimdz: ok, if we can have something potentially badly broken in main06:37
mdzBurgwork,cbx33: cbx33 has a launchpad account but the name on it didn't match the name used in the changelog06:37
Burgworkmdz, ah06:38
mdztfheen: I've been working around bug 62495 using advanced search, and now I don't even notice (just changed my bookmark)06:38
UbugtuMalone bug 62495 in malone "Milestone bug list doesn't sort properly" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/6249506:38
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mdztfheen: this also has the advantage of not showing the spec noise06:38
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bddebianHeya folks06:45
ograKamion, the fuzzy translation bug with server/console mode was gfxboot-theme ? 06:47
ograor was it d-i i should file against ?06:47
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pittihmm, is the announcement of the new apport-retrace with super powers something appropriate for u-d-announce?06:56
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Kamionogra: gfxboot-theme-ubuntu06:58
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Kamionoh, dear lord, it's a hand-rolled po file parser, no wonder07:00
ograoh, youre already looking at it ?07:02
ograso should i not file the bug ?07:02
Kamionogra: nope, no need now, I've got it fixed07:04
Kamionogra: thanks for the reminder07:04
ogracool,. thanks 07:04
ograso i declare edubuntu free of known bugs !07:04
ogralets see about the unknown ones :P07:04
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sivangjanimo: it works like a charm07:13
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janimosivang: nice, one less reason to use win07:18
sivangjanimo: indeed. However the bank site uses popups, and it won't work :-/07:19
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Kamionok, first cut at the tasksel fixes for usplash complete07:22
Kamionbut I have to go out now before testing it; night all07:22
ogranight Kamion and thanks for all the fixes today :)07:24
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Ngout of interest, when is the next dapper langpack release likely to be? I read something earlier about it being embargoes atm?08:10
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pittiNg: I uploaded them to -proposed today, Keybuk or Kamion have to approve them08:11
Ngah cool08:11
pittiNg: after they do, they'll be uploaded to -updates 7 days after08:11
Ngsomeone accosted me earlier about dd segfaulting and I was a bit confused until I tracked down the bugreport on a language pack08:11
Ngthanks :)08:11
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givr1pitti: do you think that the David Zeuthen patch to support Fuse could meet edgy ? 08:18
bSONis there any reason why https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlwaysEnableUniverseMultiverse is in review so long?08:18
givr1pitti: i could understand that it could be considerate as a feature, just wanting to know08:23
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JB[away] moin08:35
dholbachTreenaks: I made some changes to your bluetooth/todo suggestion08:35
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Treenaksdholbach: ok, great :)08:51
dholbachTreenaks: I saw too many items like that on "TODO lists" already08:52
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Treenaksdholbach: Whatever it takes to get it done ;)08:53
Treenaksdholbach: I want to browse in the train ;)08:53
Treenakss/browse/irc/ :P08:53
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dholbachI just meant to say "don't dump an item like that on a todo list, if you mean to get it done". :-)08:53
S0me1hi everyone08:54
S0me1how i can send an idea to ubuntu team?08:54
funmanjust write it down08:55
LaserJockputting it on the wiki (wiki.ubuntu.com) is good08:56
S0me1i see ok thanks 08:56
Treenaksdholbach: oh, sorry then :)08:56
Kamionfunman: because obviously we read everything that is written everywhere? :-)08:57
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funmanat least you did08:57
desrtKamion; aren't you supposed to be sleeping?08:57
Kamiondesrt: at 8pm?08:57
funmanwell nice Kamion, will you fill it ?08:57
desrtKamion; oh.  i see what happened.  nevermind :)08:57
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desrtKamion; in that case, do you know why usplash flickers on shutdown?08:58
Kamiondesrt: nope, no idea I'm afraid08:58
desrti wonder if init is whacking the process when it does the "sending SIGTERM/KILL to everyone"08:58
Kamionmy guess for somebody who would know would be Keybuk08:59
desrtnod.  i've been meaning to ask him but he hasn't been around much08:59
desrtthen i saw you were talking about usplash last night so i thought you might know :)08:59
dholbachiwj: you had any luck with the rebuilding of firefox on edgy amd64?09:01
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tfheenmdz: using an advanced search doesn't give me the option of reordering the columns though09:11
mdztfheen: you mean multicolumn sort?09:23
mdzyou can sort on one column using the drop-down09:23
tfheenmdz: oh, true, that's so not-obvious that changing that and pressing "search" just changes the already-present search result.09:23
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feAR`First of all, I am sorry for my English. 09:23
dholbachKamion, Keybuk: can you promote python-virtkey to main? it's a dependency of onboard (which is in main and seeded already).09:23
tfheenit also doesn't display assignee, which is useful.09:23
feAR`Am...Who is responsible for Ubuntu cd's autorun?09:23
mdzfeAR`: mvo09:23
feAR`where could I find him? :}09:23
Kamiondholbach: done09:23
dholbachKamion: thanks!09:23
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mdzfeAR`: what do you want to ask him?09:24
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feAR`mdz, we are creating free software cd (something like theopencd.org) but just for Lithuanians, and I am the project coordinator.09:26
feAR`I would like to ask how to change the size of k-meleon window09:26
feAR`I can't find where to set the window size..09:26
mdzfeAR`: oh, that's a completely different thing09:26
mdzyou're talking about the Windows autorun09:26
mdzfeAR`: that's heno09:26
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mdzfeAR`: https://launchpad.net/people/henrik09:27
bluefoxicy...... my ~/.evolution/addressbook directory is 419 megs09:27
bluefoxicyI never even used the addressbook.09:27
feAR`gh, how to find him09:29
_ionbluefoxicy: You know how Evolution's UI somewhat resembles Microsoft Outlook? Well, that's another feature they're imitating.09:29
bluefoxicy_ion:  lol09:29
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wasabi_Hmm. Some people need to make cups printing programs connect directly to remote printers, and store queues in ~/.printers.conf09:41
wasabi_With the obvious entries for ipp://localhost/printer residing in there.09:41
wasabi_So authentication to the printer happens appropiatly.09:42
=== wasabi_ adds that to a list of things to do that will never get done.
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ajmitchwasabi_: good, someone else put in a request for libpam-krb5 updates :)09:49
wasabi_What's changed anyways?09:49
ajmitchbug 6418909:49
UbugtuMalone bug 64189 in libpam-krb5 "UVF: please sync from debian" [Medium,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/6418909:49
wasabi_I submitted a patch for that, almost a year ago, heh09:49
wasabi_For something.09:49
wasabi_Dunno if it ever made it in, since it seems to have no upstream.09:49
ajmitchbug fixes, mainly09:49
ajmitchapparantly there is an upstream still09:50
wasabi_Yeah, 3 of em.09:50
wasabi_RedHat maintains their own fork.09:50
ajmitchthat's extra-special09:50
wasabi_Wonder if anybody fixed the service_err result.09:50
wasabi_So I can do service_err=1 auth_err=209:50
wasabi_Used to return auth_err when the KDC was unreachable.09:51
ajmitchright, 2.x has plenty of changes for caching & realm-specific stuff09:51
wasabi_I use pam_ccreds.09:51
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ajmitchso we can hopefully get this in09:51
wasabi_It's nice to have processing jump to it when service_err is returned from krb5, and jump to invalidate the cache when it returns auth_err09:52
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jdong|laptoptseng: do you know where that dapper mono repository is?09:54
ajmitchwasabi_: we can always try & get a patch into edgy09:55
wasabi_I'll have to review the state it's in currently.09:55
wasabi_I'll check it out when I get home.09:55
tfheeniwj: what's happening with 57161?09:58
geserdoes bug 52803 qualify to be fixed for edgy?10:01
UbugtuMalone bug 52803 in gsfonts-x11 "insufficient dependency on xfonts-utils" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/5280310:01
tfheenseb128: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/control-center/+bug/22876 is targetted for 6.10, but you say "probably won't be fixed for edgy".  Which one is correct?10:02
UbugtuMalone bug 22876 in control-center "There is no way to control which sound device or mixer the keyboard shortcuts use" [Unknown,Confirmed]  10:02
seb128tfheen: I didn't remember about the patch when I added the comment, I'll have a look at the patch for edgy10:03
tfheenseb128: thanks.10:04
seb128tfheen: no need to bother with the desktop them, there is about 10 of them and I've then in control ;)10:04
seb128s/desktop them/desktop bugs10:04
Nghmm, does anyone happen to know how rhythmbox identifies usb devices as music players?10:04
tfheenseb128: ok, thanks, I won't then. :-)10:04
tfheenseb128: but I'll roar at you if they're not all gone in six days. :-P10:04
seb128Ng: probably the hal informations about the device10:04
seb128tfheen: fine with me ;)10:04
tfheenseb128: thanks10:05
Ngseb128: ok thanks, I'll poke around the device manager to see why my new mp3 player isn't showing up ;)10:05
Ngaha, there's a portable_audio_player capability and category10:06
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jdong|laptopzul: with ubuntu's xen, can you change the distribution of RAM while the system/VM's are running?10:18
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jdong|laptop(smack me if I'm asking retarded questions  about Xen010:18
zulno i think you have to restart it but try it out10:18
jdong|laptopso you have to specify how much RAM you give to dom0 ahead of time?10:18
jdong|laptopthe last time I used Xen I found that real irritating10:18
jdong|laptopmmkay, I'll set aside a test box10:18
jdong|laptopcan amd64 hosts run i386 guests?10:18
ajmitchyou can shrink dom0's ram usage10:19
LaserJockhehe, that reminds me of a certain thread in -devel10:19
ajmitchbut you can't increase beyond what it was booted with10:19
jdong|laptopajmitch: ah, so I can boot dom0 to use all available RAM then shrink it as I need to boot children?10:20
ajmitchit just happens10:20
funmandom0 just can access all RAM anyway10:20
zulright time to go home10:21
funmanand then you'll allocate some dom0's free RAM to domUs10:21
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jdong|laptopah ok10:23
jdong|laptopand are the wiki's documents on how to use Xen still valid for Dapper?10:23
funmani don't know if ubuntu changed xen tools10:24
ajmitchprobably similar enough10:24
=== ajmitch goes off to upload new xen-3.0
jdong|laptopfinal question, will Xen process and close 120 outstanding backports requests for me while I take my nap? :D10:26
ajmitchjdong|laptop: no10:27
jdong|laptophave a nice day, everyone10:27
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AnAntI was just running apt-get dist-upgrade, and it told me that will install some indian & far eastern fonts, why is that ?10:36
AnAntwhat will a non asian do with all those fonts ?10:37
funmanwatch, not read, asian texts10:38
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AnAntfunman: and ?10:38
funmanand nothing, that's all10:38
AnAntfunman: 50 extra MB to watch asian text that I won't understand ?10:39
funmancan you see what will make these fonts install ?10:40
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AnAntubuntu-desktop I think10:40
AnAntbecause when I chose to do upgrade instead of dist-upgrade, it told me that it will hold ubuntu-desktop & ubuntu-minimal back10:41
sbalneavIf you're browsing the internet, and get directed to an Asian site, with asian characters, the proper thing to do would be to display the characters correctly, as opposed to a web page full of gibberish characters.  Therefore, to do the correct thing, you need the fonts.  This isn't really a development question though, is it?10:42
funmanAnAnt: i don't know if you already experienced10:43
funmanbut it's very funny to let a friend use your computer, and make that he can use his native language10:43
AnAntk, I just found that it is less than 50 MB10:44
AnAntmaybe even half that size10:44
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geserKamion: do I still need an ACK from a MOTU for a sync request in universe when I already have a confirmed UVF exception?11:15
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