[12:08] nautilus? ;:) [12:08] but i know it is working, but i think it's depends of the coreutils devel [12:08] i know it is working on mandrivia [12:08] lol seb128 [12:08] ^^ [12:09] what coreutils version is shipped with mandriva? === kylem [n=kyle@cabal.ca] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:10] hehe, good question [12:11] look at this, 3 years ago > http://www.mail-archive.com/bug-coreutils@gnu.org/msg00610.html [12:11] well i don't know the version on mandrivia i don't have it, i just saw a screenshot from it, on linuxfr.org === jdong [n=jdong@ubuntu/member/jdong] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:13] illovae: according to http://linuxfr.org/~pascalscl/13847.html that was a Mandriva patch [12:13] they stopped using it apparently [12:13] the current spec has no such patch === mbiebl [n=michael@dslb-084-056-253-084.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:14] erf... i was thinking that this patch wasn't added on coreutils in debian or ubuntu [12:14] but was available on other distribution [12:14] doesn't look like [12:15] what do you think of this patch ? a good idea, or the end-users don't want it ? [12:15] i mean, maybe the devels can integrate it on the next rlz of coreutils [12:17] I think it would have been accepted upstream or Mandriva would still be shipping it if it was good [12:17] they probably stopped using it for a reason [12:17] i'm really sorry i don't have any knowledge about how do i can demand that for a future version, maybe it's not the good place === haggai_ [n=halls@i-83-67-59-194.freedom2surf.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:18] illovae: file a bug report agains the package [12:18] usual way to ask to get a change is the bug tracker === doko__ [n=doko@dslb-088-073-079-174.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:18] yeah, it appears that the shellusers don't care about a fonction like this [12:18] oki jdong thx :) [12:18] k seb128 [12:20] oki === robitaille [n=daniel@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:21] is the decision for mountainview sponsorship delayed or does no answer = negative? === KaiL_ [n=KaiL@p548F57AF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:22] thank you all for answering me with taking on your own time, i hope i wasn't too disturbing [12:22] and again sorry for my english :D [12:23] np ;) [12:23] your english is good enough, don't worry [12:23] desrt: its been announced already [12:23] k thanks but it's difficult lol, i write in english with the speed of a child [12:24] so last time i think they sent out a "sorry, tough luck" email... === TomB| [n=ownthebo@host217-44-6-189.range217-44.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:24] I don't know that they are completely done though [12:24] desrt: so maybe they haven't sent the "tough luck" emails yet [12:24] nod. [12:26] I've received it already :-) [12:26] this mid-day [12:27] LaserJock: I got mine [12:27] just this morning [12:27] maybe it was this morning, [12:27] I got delusinal and started drinking the minute I saw it so can't recall >;-) [12:28] sorry again, just a question for security : 'cp' and 'mv' are parts of coreutils right ? [12:28] (for my bug report) [12:29] ajmitch; did you get a tough-luck one or a friendly-love one? [12:29] desrt: there are friendly-love ones as well? :) [12:29] the "please come and we'll pay" ones :) [12:29] desrt: tough luck, I suck, etc :) [12:29] wow. they actually said you suck? [12:30] no [12:30] that's tough indeed :p [12:30] it was implied :) [12:30] yes [12:30] in mine as well ;) [12:30] i guess failing SoC makes you a bit of a lepper :( [12:30] illovae: they are [12:31] thank a lot seb128 :) [12:31] np! [12:31] seb128; did you ever see my gdm hackery? [12:32] seb128; i was sort of wondering if you could help me out with something [12:32] desrt: I don't think so [12:32] maybe [12:32] desrt: I expect that [12:32] what is that about? ;) === sivang is happily selecting and manipulating DB2 Viper data from Python, joy! [12:32] when you successfully login the login screen stays on [12:32] and the 'enter your password' area is replaced by a progress bar [12:32] which slides along as you login [12:33] and the gdm window disappears only after the desktop is completely ready [12:33] desrt: enlightenment-like bling? [12:33] so you don't get all sorts of flickering when logging it [12:33] it looks extra nice if the gdm background is similar to the desktop background [12:33] desrt: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=322056 [12:33] Gnome bug 322056 in general "allow to set background image when using graphical greeter" [Normal,Assigned] [12:34] seb128: more like http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=355190 [12:34] Gnome bug 355190 in general "[rfe] gdmgreeter continues to run during login process" [Enhancement,Unconfirmed] [12:34] desrt: that is what Mandriva do, that avoid jumping by a transitional uni-color background [12:35] see the screenshot for an idea -- http://bugzilla.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=72465&action=view [12:35] 'cept it's no longer a pulsed progress bar -- it's a real one [12:35] right, those are 2 different ways to make the transition gdm to desktop smoother [12:35] in any case i'm catching a fair amount of resistance from upstream on the issue [12:35] and "distro X does it this way already" is sometimes good leverage :) [12:36] right [12:36] I'm not convinced I would prefer your way to the bug I pointed [12:36] hmm. ok. [12:36] switching directly to the desktop background with the splash is good too [12:36] I would need to try [12:36] cool [12:36] you need some gnome-session love in order for it to work properly [12:37] I just think it would feel weird to have the gdm screen staying for the time of the session startup [12:37] but i think there's some stuff attached to the bug that lets you emulate it with appropriate shellscrpts [12:37] seb128; i hate to say it, but "see also: macos, windows" [12:37] :) [12:37] anyway. friend is here. gotta run. [12:37] see you later [12:37] laters desrt [12:37] almost time to sleep here ;) [12:38] seb128: do you follow Paris time? [12:38] correct [12:39] so we have now have same time :) === sivang read the last sentence and realizes he needs to go to sleep === robertj [n=robertj@66-188-74-161.dhcp.athn.ga.charter.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === hunger_ [n=tobias@p54A6196D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === HrdwrBoB_ is now known as HrdwrBoB === haggai [n=halls@i-83-67-59-194.freedom2surf.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Ckenyon [n=chrisken@host81-154-0-54.range81-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:29] LaserJock: pong [01:29] I pinged you in here? [01:30] probably in -motu, migrating. === Tonio_ [n=tonio@94.8.100-84.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === beuno [n=martin@68-155-114-200.fibertel.com.ar] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Ckenyon [n=chrisken@host81-154-0-54.range81-154.btcentralplus.com] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === licio [n=licio@ubuntu/member/licio] has joined #ubuntu-devel === bddebian [n=bdefrees@71.224.172.103] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:02] Howdy folks === Tonio___ [n=tonio@40.8.100-84.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === shawarma [n=sh@vega.linux2go.dk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Fujitsu [n=fujitsu@203.23.49.35] has joined #ubuntu-devel === shawarma_ [n=sh@vega.linux2go.dk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === dark [i=deviled_@microsoft.gotrooted.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === shawarma [n=sh@vega.linux2go.dk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === dark [n=dark@microsoft.gotrooted.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === theCore [n=alex@modemcable106.200-70-69.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Fujitsu_ [n=Fujitsu@203.23.49.35] has joined #ubuntu-devel === nixternal [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-devel === shawarma_ [n=sh@vega.linux2go.dk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Tonio_ [n=tonio@40.8.100-84.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === quail [n=quail@unaffiliated/quaillinux/x-000001] has joined #ubuntu-devel === gnomefreak [n=gnomefre@ubuntu/member/gnomefreak] has joined #ubuntu-devel === shawarma [n=sh@vega.linux2go.dk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === shawarma [n=sh@vega.linux2go.dk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === nixternal [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-devel === shawarma [n=sh@vega.linux2go.dk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === nictuku [n=yves@ubuntu/member/nictuku] has joined #ubuntu-devel === didymo [n=ashley@CPE-61-9-197-223.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === stub [n=stub@ppp-58.8.12.209.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #ubuntu-devel === rodarvus_ [n=rodarvus@201.22.18.70.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #ubuntu-devel === shawarma_ [n=sh@vega.linux2go.dk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === abattoir [n=abattoir@cm62.omega21.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lastnode [n=lastnode@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === cr3 [n=marc@pdpc/supporter/bronze/cr3] has joined #ubuntu-devel === shawarma [n=sh@vega.linux2go.dk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === shawarma_ [n=sh@vega.linux2go.dk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === theCore [n=alex@modemcable106.200-70-69.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-devel === gnomefreak [n=gnomefre@ubuntu/member/gnomefreak] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflying|away [n=freeflyi@ubuntu/member/freeflying] has joined #ubuntu-devel === TheBearded1_ [n=cyle@CPE-24-163-150-201.kc.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === chris38-home [n=Christia@mut38-4-82-233-119-151.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Burgundavia [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflying|away [n=freeflyi@ubuntu/member/freeflying] has joined #ubuntu-devel === wasabi [n=wasabi@ubuntu/member/wasabi] has joined #ubuntu-devel === cr3 [n=marc@pdpc/supporter/bronze/cr3] has joined #ubuntu-devel === vuntz [n=vuntz@fennas.vuntz.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === orion2012 [n=orion201@cpe-70-114-30-76.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === shawarma [n=sh@vega.linux2go.dk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === poolie [n=mbp@ozlabs.org] has joined #ubuntu-devel === fossa [n=fossa@cpe-066-056-130-130.triad.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:21] i'd like to talk to a software developer or someone familiar with the field about what kind of salary i can expect as a member of a development team. === shawarma [n=sh@vega.linux2go.dk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === shawarma_ [n=sh@vega.linux2go.dk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === WaterSevenUb [n=WaterSev@c-65-96-188-198.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:29] fossa, if you know, please tell me [04:29] if you find out, I mean === shawarma [n=sh@vega.linux2go.dk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === wasabi [n=wasabi@ubuntu/member/wasabi] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:36] nictuku, no one seems to have any idea. it could range anywhere from $45-80K [04:36] gimme some help here [04:37] what happens on the initrd [04:37] or more specifically what happens between executing /linuxrc and getting to readahead [04:37] I believe it may be possible to improve readahead efficiency massively, but this is based on a couple big assumptions === j_ack [n=rudi@p508DAA46.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:38] primarily, I am making the assumption that the boot order is initrd->linuxrc->load a bunch of hardware modules->mount and pivot root->pass control to upstart->load some more hardware->mount some essential file systems->bring up readahead [04:39] in which case, initrd->linuxrc->load modules for rootfs and underlying hardware->activate read-ahead process in the background->continue as normal would take advantage of the time other hardware is being probed for and initialized === fossa [n=fossa@cpe-066-056-130-130.triad.res.rr.com] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === shawarma [n=sh@vega.linux2go.dk] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:44] Hmm. Where's teh "reopen" button in LP? [04:44] On a bug. === crispin__ [n=crispin@grotto.flowerday.cx] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:45] wasabi: Edit the bug and change the status from Fix Released to something else? [04:45] Don't have a status option anywhere I can find. [04:46] Bug number? [04:46] bug 43465 [04:46] Malone bug 43465 in libpam-krb5 "Unable to unlock." [Medium,Fix released] http://launchpad.net/bugs/43465 [04:46] oh there [04:46] you have to click on the "affects" [04:46] Heh. I got it. [04:46] Yeha. :) [04:46] There used to be a little arrow there that made it more obvious it was expandable. [04:46] Not sure why that went away. === j_ack [n=rudi@p508DAA46.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:47] Thanks! === ogra [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:50] whaaaa.... [04:51] the initrd has 176 modules on it? [04:51] it has all modules in it [04:52] HrdwrBoB: isn't that counterproductive [04:52] wasabi: we could probably drag in new libpam-krb5 from debian, if you can test it & get back with some info on it [04:52] HrdwrBoB: that being, you have to load those all, unpack them into memory, modprobe them each, they have to be stored on disk in the initrd image... [04:52] since it's still in universe [04:54] bluefoxicy: Yes, it's inefficient, but it's the safest approach. You can choose to have your initrd built with "MODULES=dep" to try to guess which modules to include and make it smaller, but it's less safe. [04:54] infinity: ah. [04:54] bluefoxicy: See initramfs.conf(5) [04:54] infinity: is there a reason it's technically infeasible to detect rootfs file system type and the hardware it runs on? [04:54] MODULES=dep also, of course, means that upgrading your motherboard or moving the hard drive to another box will leave you with an unbootable system. [04:55] ...? [04:55] since there is no modules for that system [04:55] If you only include the driver for your specific disk controller, you get a new controller...? [04:55] The PCI drivers aren't generic.. the IDE interface should be generic except it won't have DMA (I've run without the IDE controller driver before, it's slow) [04:55] Something an "expert" could deal with fine, but not robust for the ideal user. [04:56] s/ideal/average/ [04:56] infinity: the SATA controller I use will probably not work [04:56] even for an expert it's a PITA [04:56] you _NEED_ the driver for the specific SATA you have [04:56] bluefoxicy: Yes, that's my point. [04:56] bluefoxicy: Hence why we build the "fat" initrd by default. Much safer and easier for users to not break. [04:56] for me when I had Gentoo I could never figure out my IDE controller until the last year of using it [04:56] so I never had DMA [04:57] but the generic IDE support got me actual access to the disk [04:57] infinity: nods, good points anyway. But... NETWORK card drivers? [04:57] Similar argument. Fat initrds for thin (or chubby) clients. [04:58] We don't actually load/probe them unless you're booting from a network, so it's just a bit of wasted space. [04:58] infinity: alright. Is it safe to attempt to get the rootfs access immediately and get rootfs mounted early from the initrd, in its fat form? [04:59] That's pretty much the whole point of initramfs anyway. [04:59] I'm not sure how much more quickly we can get there. [04:59] It's not like it does anything ELSE. :) [04:59] what about the other hardware? That's loaded from rootfs, even when it's got duplicate modules in initramfs? [04:59] (Well, except for cute stuff like usplash and bootchart and thins) [05:00] infinity: about when does readahead come into play? [05:00] Hardware loading is pretty much just done by udev, in two passes. [05:00] So, what modules you have available determines what gets loaded. === iwj [n=ian@xenophobe.extern.relativity.greenend.org.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:01] (I lied about the network driver thing, still thinking of pre-udevplug days) [05:01] So, yeah, your NIC driver will probably get loaded in the initramfs. No big deal. [05:01] I don't have any NICs that actually take time to settle. [05:01] Or, wait. Maybe Scott calls udevplug with an argument to only load storage class stuff. [05:01] Okay, I should go read the code again. :) [05:02] Ahh, yeah, it just loads storage class stuff if you're booting local. I was right the first time. [05:02] So your NIC won't get loaded until we switch to the real root. [05:02] infinity: Well my endpoint is that I want to back readahead to when it's immediatly feasible to begin reading files off the rootfs, especially before drivers start getting loaded; drivers need to initialize hardware, and if readahead is running in the background while hardware is initting you have a CPU bound problem in parallel with an IO bound problem and they both parallel quite nicely. [05:03] but I don't entirely understand what's happening at boot [05:03] We tossed around the idea of two readahead invocations (one for rootfs, one for the full fs), but we don't really read enough from the rootfs before mounting /usr to make it worthwhile. [05:04] So, we do readahead pretty much as soon as /usr is mounted. [05:04] what about moving the mount of /usr back earlier, say as soon as you can satisfy access to its device [05:05] It's already as early as it can get. [05:06] mm. [05:06] Check /etc/rcS.d, and tell me what you think could happen after /usr is mounted. [05:06] oh, rcS is always started? (couldn't figure that part out on my own) [05:07] Oh, hey, Scott did give us that second readahead invocation. [05:07] So, even that's happened. [05:07] cool === jdong [n=jdong@ubuntu/member/jdong] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:07] Yeah, rcS is the "boot" runlevel. [05:07] You go from initramfs to rcS to whatever default runlevel you have (usually rc2) [05:08] hmm === j_ack [n=rudi@p508DAA46.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:10] the only other thing I can think of is that readahead is not adaptive; but preload is too much of a nightmare to me [05:10] ajmitch: Sorry. I don't think it's libpam-krb5's fault. [05:11] wasabi: oh well, I'll look at reasons to get it updated anyway :) [05:11] Heh. [05:11] We're going to be doing directory integration stuff at the summit. [05:11] libpam-krb5 will be a part of that. ;) [05:11] bluefoxicy: preload is indeed a nightmare [05:11] bluefoxicy: on my box, it tends to cause extra disk IO more than anything else [05:11] jdong: I think it c.. yeah, thrashing. [05:12] wasabi: yes, I'm really hoping to get there if at all possible [05:12] bluefoxicy: personally I'd like to see more work in the readahead department [05:12] I like readahead [05:12] jdong: How early can I get inotify up [05:12] if prefetchers are made for GNOME, firefox, etc... [05:12] all I think are necessary are launcher wrapper scripts [05:13] wasabi: I have a few things to bring up.. [05:13] ajmitch: Hope ya make it. Planning on it? [05:13] jdong: preload is probably dumb enough to read-ahead entire libraries [05:14] bluefoxicy: I don't think preload has any level of intelligence :D [05:14] wasabi: looking at how I can get there [05:14] I would read-ahead their headers only first and then go back and read their .data and let .text be [05:14] (dynamic linking ONLY cares about headers...) [05:16] jdong: I would tie the read-ahead into init mainly; just-in-time read-ahead is pretty pointless, except maybe reading in library headers to make dynamic linking more IO bound [05:17] bluefoxicy: jit readahead reduces disk seeking [05:17] I mean, you start loading Gnumeric. It's going to immediately start picking up libraries. Possibly faster than you can read them in. [05:17] bluefoxicy: that's a pretty big deal for something like GNOME startup [05:17] jdong: I could make the dynamic linker do it. [05:17] my GNOME startup is clearly IO bound [05:17] no, seriously, ld.so could be hacked to do it === freeflying|away [n=freeflyi@61.190.64.118] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:19] it reads the needed library section (DT_NEEDED?) and loads libraries one by one, it could easily fork() and set up a readahead() call to each in their header area (and then exit) while it goes and dynamic links === j_ack [n=rudi@p508DAA46.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:31] i'm severely unmotivated to try to hack glibc [05:31] I know drepper and friends will just be like "that sucks fuck off" and then show up 3 weeks later with a slightly altered patch "we wrote this, some other guy tried to do something like this but his was stupid ours is much cooler" [05:32] bluefoxicy: We've heard this before [05:32] mjg59: oh, right, yeah. I've seen it too many times. === bluefoxicy shrugs and curls up. [05:44] infinity, maybe NWU will enter Debian experimental soon, I believe. Will you still be able to review its security, as you offered months ago? [05:44] nictuku: If I have time, I can look at it sometime, sure. [05:46] infinity, thank you. I'll let you know when it gets to the next milestone === nixternal [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:07] mjg59: when you refer to docks in your post to the list, do you mean things like resuming in the dock? [06:07] or just having the dock work? === mruiz [n=mruiz@pc-134-66-104-200.cm.vtr.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mruiz [n=mruiz@pc-134-66-104-200.cm.vtr.net] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Bytes!"] === zenrox [n=zenrox@pool-71-120-226-54.spknwa.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:34] xorg-driver-fglrx broken? can't get it to work here now..was working until i reboote =/ [06:34] yeah [06:34] looks like kernel has been updated and fglrx hasn't [06:34] ok..whew ;) [06:34] Err, but the kernel didn't have an ABI change... [06:35] At least, wasn't meant to. [06:35] Oh well, I'll be uploading a new LRM later anyway, so maybe the problem will just go away. [06:35] as long as i get my 1600x1200 back soon, i don't care ;) === crispin_ [n=crispin@grotto.flowerday.cx] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mempf [n=mempf@S0106000129f69144.vs.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === j_ack [n=rudi@p508DAA46.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === besonen2_ [n=besonen2@dsl-db.pacinfo.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === quail [n=quail@unaffiliated/quaillinux/x-000001] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freakabcd [n=freakabc@gn01.quakes.uq.edu.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:57] hi all [06:57] crimsun, err.. i believe this guy did a _working_ sample implementation _before_ dapper was released! [06:58] and its suddenly edgy+1 material? [06:58] don;t tell me you guys decided even before dapper was released that binary deltas will be edgy+1 material? heck somehow i think it might even be edgy+2 material :( [07:01] freakabcd: "suddenly" is a bit far flung [07:01] sorry, it is indeed. [07:01] but could you elaborate on the idea that it was pre-conceived waay back that its edgy+1 material? [07:02] freakabcd: was there an implementation in the archive before feature freeze? [07:02] tfheen, i dunno about dapper. but surely before even edgy opened for devel [07:03] its somewhere in the mailing list archives. [07:03] freakabcd: oh? Can you point me to the spec? [07:05] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2006-May/017602.html === nags [n=nags@125.16.129.16] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:05] there might be another main thread somewhere else. but thats the one i found byt looking just now [07:06] that's not a spec, though. Our development process is spec-focused where all features should have a spec before they are implemented === minghua [n=minghua@ppp-70-132-145-160.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:07] err.. what i meant was. if you read that thread: theres not much interest in even writing a spec. [07:07] you can;t expect 1 person to do all the work of writing the spec and implementing a proof-of-concept [07:07] the guy wrote a proof-of-concept that works. now write a spec and a proper implementation (i guess by committee). this never happened [07:08] if there's no interest in the feature, nobody will write the spec. [07:09] it's quite simple, really === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:09] really, people just underrate bandwidth. [07:09] really, some people overrate it [07:09] updating huge megabytes of packages for few kb of changes === freeflying_ [n=freeflyi@61.190.64.118] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:10] that might be, but somebody needs to write the spec and make sure it gets targetted for a release. That requires somebody to push for it, not just write a sample implementation and hope it all works out in the end. [07:11] tfheen: no magic wand waving? no fun! [07:11] wang! [07:11] Hobbsee: heh. :-) [07:11] Hobbsee: good morning [07:12] afternoon Hobbsee [07:12] freakabcd: and complaining about missing features after feature freeze is a bit late. === stub [n=stub@ppp-58.8.15.178.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:13] apologies, my objective was not to engage in an 'include this feature or die' conversation. [07:14] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeatureSpecifications tells a bit about how the process works [07:19] hey tfheen, ajmitch :) === robitaille [n=daniel@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-devel === kristog [n=ballio@energ63.energ.polimi.it] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:27] boot chart says things are a mess I/O wise. Hrm. [07:27] How early can I get inotify up === Xnix [n=xnix@n157s046.ntc.blacksburg.shentel.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflying [n=freeflyi@ubuntu/member/freeflying] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mvo [n=egon@p54A6537B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflying [n=freeflyi@61.190.64.118] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Lure [n=lure@ubuntu/member/lure] has joined #ubuntu-devel === giftnudel [n=mb@p54A94C80.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === crispin__ [n=crispin@grotto.flowerday.cx] has joined #ubuntu-devel === pitti [n=pitti@ubuntu/member/pitti] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Fujitsu [n=Fujitsu@ubuntu/member/fujitsu] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:17] Good morning === mdz_ [n=mdz@12.170.226.2] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mdz__ [n=mdz@12.170.226.2] has joined #ubuntu-devel === iwj [n=ian@xenophobe.extern.relativity.greenend.org.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mdz__ [n=mdz@12.170.226.2] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:23] hey pitti === mempf-edgy [n=mempf@S0106000129f69144.vs.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === _human_blip_ [n=mike@220.157.65.29] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Lure [n=lure@ubuntu/member/lure] has joined #ubuntu-devel === dholbach [n=daniel@i577B3C82.versanet.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:54] good morning === olemke [n=olemke@193.10.130.160] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Kamion [n=cjwatson@82-69-40-219.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === seb128 [n=seb128@ubuntu/member/seb128] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Keybuk [n=scott@quest.netsplit.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === carlos [n=carlos@180.Red-88-18-199.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Zdra [n=zdra@247.225-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel === poolie [n=mbp@ozlabs.org] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === Kamion_ [n=cjwatson@82-69-40-219.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === crispin_ [n=crispin@grotto.flowerday.cx] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Gloubiboulga [n=gauvain@ubuntu/member/gloubiboulga] has joined #ubuntu-devel === _human_blip_ [n=mike@220.157.65.29] has joined #ubuntu-devel === malcc [n=malcolm@host86-135-237-55.range86-135.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === iwj [n=ian@xenophobe.extern.relativity.greenend.org.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === givre [n=flo@APuteaux-152-1-3-114.w82-120.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel === viviersf [n=cain@196.44.1.98] has joined #ubuntu-devel === human_blip [n=mike@220.157.65.29] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:46] mdz_: I think I didn't get a reply to the mail I sent you where I suggested seeding avahi-daemon, is that still pending reply on your side? [09:46] seb128: I don't think it's in my inbox; please resend [09:48] mdz_: it was a reply to your mail about avahi-daemon activated by default (following on the debian thread about it) [09:48] mdz_: ok, will do === mbiebl [n=michael@dslb-084-057-251-043.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === heno [n=henrik@ti200720a080-3150.bb.online.no] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:01] mdz_: any chance you can nag LP people to get https://launchpad.net/products/malone/+bug/62495 fixed or worked around? RC will be painful without it fixed. [10:01] Malone bug 62495 in malone "Milestone bug list doesn't sort properly" [Undecided,Confirmed] === giftnudel [n=mb@p54A94C80.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === cbx33 [n=c2df514b@84-45-197-14.no-dns-yet.enta.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:02] ping mvo [10:02] hello cbx33 [10:03] tfheen: when shall we set the WinFOSS freeze at? I'm easy, the remaining work is trivial anyway [10:03] preffered method for upgrading a dapper machine to edgY? [10:03] update-manager -d [10:03] I need to do an upgrade test for edubuntu for ogra [10:03] hmmm [10:03] This page doesn't actually have an RC FREEZE data AFAICS https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyReleaseSchedule [10:03] heno: personally, I like to get stuff done early rather than late, so either ten or seven days before RC? [10:04] seb128 i get nothing [10:04] just the normal update [10:04] cbx33: update-manager -c -d, please let me know about the result [10:04] ok [10:04] will try again [10:05] mvo got it with that command, but only if I export my proxy details first [10:05] this was raised as a bug last time [10:05] tfheen: ok, monday is 10 days before, we can do that [10:05] cbx33: do you use gnome-terminal? is your proxy configured via gconf? [10:06] hmmm lemme check not sure on this machine [10:06] it is certainly configured in apt === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:06] heno: if that's not enough time, do tell me, though === lastnode [n=lastnode@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:07] i just set it up in the gnome network proxy [10:07] using the auto config script option [10:07] and it still doesn't work [10:08] tfheen: the only thing is if Firefox put out a very important fix late in the process, but I can ask for a special exception for that [10:08] So we'll go with monday [10:09] doesn't seem to work at all mvo [10:09] cbx33: this is probably a transient failure, this whole thing works by using http_proxy. that is passed via gksu and gnome-terminal. if you use the gnome-terminal that is still open it will fail unfortunately [10:09] heno: sure. [10:09] ah ok [10:09] I'll try not using gnome terminal [10:09] cbx33: *but* please file a bug about this, so that I can fix it properly [10:10] nope still doesn't work even if I run from the menu [10:10] only way I can get it to successfully run is to export the proxy details first [10:11] cbx33: oh, plesae file a bug then, I will fix it with the next upload (fix should be straight-forward) === human_blip [n=mike@220.157.65.29] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:12] mvo no problem [10:12] thanks [10:13] cbx33: do you not have an LP account? [10:14] Burgundavia, https://launchpad.net/people/petesavage [10:14] ogra: odd, because mdz commented on that bug that he couldn't find pete [10:14] which bug ? [10:15] mvo - https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/update-manager/+bug/40626 [10:15] Malone bug 40626 in update-manager "Update manager ignores proxy settings when attempting to download upgrade tool for Dapper." [Medium,Needs info] [10:15] Burgundavia: I know but I do have an account else I wouldn't have been able to do a lot of things ;) [10:15] that was created ages ago [10:15] cbx33: ok, updated [10:15] ty dude [10:15] Burgundavia, he's edubuntu member and motu ... [10:15] ogra starting the upgrade now [10:16] ogra: yes, that is what I thought [10:16] cbx33, thanks, and apparently you identified a bug already ;) [10:16] maybe it's because I'm PeteSavage and not Pete Savage [10:16] I reported it back in the breezy -> dapper [10:17] but then I think before I could LP it, someone else had === Fujitsu [n=Fujitsu@ubuntu/member/fujitsu] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:18] cbx33: dunno if you read the comments, your gconf change is not good [10:18] I havn't had a chance to read yet [10:18] seb128 oh? [10:18] I'll go read [10:18] cbx33: it breaks login in some cases apparently [10:19] cbx33: I got gconfd complaining than /var/....USER directory can't be created [10:19] grr [10:19] cbx33: and session exiting on that [10:19] *&%$ [10:19] hmm..... [10:19] any ideas? [10:19] no, nothing trivial [10:19] shute [10:20] either look at gconfd-2 code and make it handle that fine [10:20] ogra anything from your end? [10:20] or make something create those directories, not sure on where to plug that though [10:20] seb128 sure - hmm [10:20] it would be easy to create them for existing users [10:21] the issue is if you create a new user it would need to create the directory too [10:21] i'd add it to users-admin then ... [10:21] yeh [10:21] and I don't fancy try to change adduser, etc for that [10:21] argh no [10:21] users-admin <- wrong place [10:21] oh, why ? [10:21] because it's a gconf directory [10:21] additional groups are added there as well [10:21] ah, k [10:21] ogra: people add users with useradd, adduser, or hell they create them on a totally different machine using NIS or whatever [10:22] true [10:22] and some people add users who don't use GNOME :p [10:22] there's no way to do this correctly by patching the user creation tools [10:22] right [10:22] ok ogra I'm going for the upgrade....ok? [10:22] if you want a per-user directory you need a component running as root to create it [10:22] Kamion: yup [10:22] but it's too late for that now [10:23] the way is probably to make gconfd-2 not complain when the directory doesn't exist === thekorn [n=markus@a81-14-188-11.net-htp.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:23] again too late for that now [10:23] probably yep [10:23] damn it [10:23] it worked fine here [10:23] it doesn't here [10:23] cbx33, we have a component running as root ... [10:23] cbx33: if it's too late for that now, then the patch surely needs to be reverted [10:23] why cant S-C-P create it if needed ? [10:24] too late to do it at all correctly => don't do it at all ... [10:24] ogra: I'm not going to change gconf in a way which makes it break if you root component is not running [10:24] ogra: sure [10:24] but scp isn't runnign all the time [10:24] right [10:24] Kamion: I didn't upload the patch since I faced the issue with my test user on my desktop [10:24] and the dir is created in pessulus [10:24] i thought its only about creating the dir ... (didnt know it breaks without it) [10:24] seb128: ah right, good [10:24] ogra: no....that's the issue [10:24] pessulus creates it...... [10:25] when you first load it for a specific user [10:25] (in fact I uploaded the patched version and a next one reverting it but both had wrong targets and were refused) [10:25] cbx33, it would be nice if you could CC me in the conversation about such issues next time ... [10:25] ogra this is the first I've heard of it [10:25] since i only understand half of what you guys are talking about atm [10:26] we have a dir created to allow per user mandatory keys [10:26] yep [10:26] but if that dir doesn't exists - some machine fail to login [10:26] ogra: cbx33 asked me to add "xml:readonly:/var/lib/gconf/users/$(USER)/gconf.xml.mandatory" to the gconf path [10:26] ogra: I did the change yesterday [10:26] ah [10:27]