[12:14] <jdong> does bug 63274's last comment indicate UVFe granted?
[12:14] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 63274 in wine "UVF exception request wine 0.9.22" [High,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63274
[12:16] <geser> jdong: you need another vote (2 of 3)
[12:16] <ajmitch> it needs signed off by 2 people on the UVF team, who'll then set it to confirmed
[12:16] <jdong> oh, ok, thanks geser / ajmitch... I'm new to the procedure
[12:44] <YokoZar> \sh_away: new bug on wine by me
[12:48] <ajmitch> YokoZar: the UVF request?
[12:49] <YokoZar> ajmitch: no, actually, a real bug (missing build depends)
[12:56] <LaserJock> hmm
[12:56] <LaserJock> where is Fujitsu today?
[12:57] <ajmitch> asleep or busy
[12:57] <ajmitch> hi LaserJock :)
[12:58] <lophyte> back
[12:58] <LaserJock> hi ajmitch
[12:59] <LaserJock> well, I was going to try to do some dapper-updates uploading
[12:59] <LaserJock> but got sucked into MOTU Management ;-)
[01:01] <zul> oh you know you like it
[01:02] <LaserJock> I do
[01:02] <LaserJock> but it takes time away
[01:02] <LaserJock> from other things
[01:02] <zul> thank god the week is nearly over
[01:02] <zul> i agree
[01:22] <LaserJock> zul: you going to be around for a little bit?
[01:23] <zul> LaserJock: ill be in and out there is a hockey game on tv
[01:24] <LaserJock> heh, ok
[01:24] <LaserJock> I'm working on a wiki page that I'd like a little MOTU feedback on
[01:24] <LaserJock> I'm waiting for ajmitch to get back
[01:24] <zul> sure ill havea look hen its done
[01:29] <zul> damn it i dont get that channel...yeah ill be around :)
[01:30] <LaserJock> heh
[01:30] <zul> but at 9 im gone...lost is one
[01:30] <zul> er..on even
[01:30] <LaserJock> crimsun: I think I asked if we have a -updates policy for MOTU like StableReleaseUpdates
[01:31] <crimsun> LaserJock: not that I'm aware, but it would be in our best interest to mimick it
[01:31] <LaserJock> yes
[01:32] <LaserJock> ok, have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JordanMantha/MotuManagement
[01:33] <LaserJock> I'd like to pick out specific problems/issues
[01:33] <LaserJock> I know there are some pretty general ones
[01:33] <crimsun> (attempting. My connection is horrible atm wrt jitter.)
[01:37] <crimsun> the list looks good. Imo concentrating on prioritised tasks based on the development cycle [timetable]  would be most fruitful. Doing so would help resolve the policy documentation issue, and it would play nicely with a 'management infrastructure.'
[01:39] <zul> i think the motu school sessions and the recruiting goes hand in hand
[01:39] <LaserJock> well
[01:40] <zul> but thats just me
[01:40] <LaserJock> I really need to split up the recruiting
[01:40] <LaserJock> as there are several issues there
[01:40] <zul> true
[01:40] <LaserJock> I'm going to try to get as many specific problems/solutions as I can
[01:40] <zul> also i think people might be intimitated by the steep learning curve
[01:40] <LaserJock> and then categorize and prioritize them
[01:41] <zul> otherwise looks good to me so far
[01:41] <LaserJock> any specific things you guys would like to add/subtract?
[01:42] <zul> im not really for the focused teams bit
[01:42] <LaserJock> yeah, that's why I'm trying to put pros and cons
[01:42] <LaserJock> so we can look at the potential solutions
[01:42] <LaserJock> and se what we want to go for
[01:42] <zul> i think there might be too much for one manager maybe a commitee
[01:43] <LaserJock> I personally have liked having the MOTU Science
[01:43] <crimsun> I think teams are useful; we tend to gravitate toward team-based maintenance, but I concur teams aren't necessarily the most dire point(s).
[01:43] <LaserJock> but I'd be really concerned about sort of splitting up of MOTU and what happens to packages that don't belong to a particular team
[01:44] <LaserJock> bottom line, I feel like teams should play a definate role in MOTU but they should grow naturally and not be forced
[01:45] <zul> whatever happened to the mentoring?
[01:45] <LaserJock> initially I got 3 or 4
[01:45] <LaserJock> and then they dropped off
[01:45] <LaserJock> and I haven't gotten any since
[01:45] <zul> ah
[01:46] <LaserJock> I think we need to really figure out what we want to do there
[01:46] <LaserJock> we didn't really push MOTU Mentoring
[01:46] <LaserJock> and perhaps I didn't do a very good job of it ;-)
[01:47] <crimsun> the reservation I have concerning mentoring is that it tends to reinforce 'MOTU know everything'
[01:47] <LaserJock> yep
[01:47] <LaserJock> I'm really struggling with that
[01:47] <LaserJock> just because I'm a MOTU doesn't mean I know everything about package XYZ
[01:48] <lophyte> no, but you could definitely point a mentee in the right direction to find out info about package XYZ
[01:48] <lophyte> I'd assume anyway
[01:48] <LaserJock> sure
[01:48] <crimsun> our MOTU pool is essentially the active forum folks
[01:49] <LaserJock> lophyte: but in that case, why have a Mentor when #ubuntu-motu or ubuntu-motu ML works for that
[01:49] <crimsun> if people will assist us in identifying those folks [who are actively creating their own packages] , we also make some headway into recruiting
[01:50] <crimsun> I think people have worked with quinn-storm, for instance
[01:50] <LaserJock> yes
[01:50] <LaserJock> I find there are a lot of people that are mantaining 3rd party repos/packages
[01:51] <lophyte> ubuntu-motu ML?
[01:51] <lophyte> oh
[01:51] <lophyte> nm
[01:51] <LaserJock> heh, sorry
[01:51] <lophyte> took me a sec to get the acronym :P
[01:51] <LaserJock> I'm not opposed to MOTU Mentors by any means
[01:51] <lophyte> I think having mentors are a good idea because then you have one person who gets to know you...
[01:51] <LaserJock> but I think we need to look at various "building MOTUs" projects
[01:52] <LaserJock> and look at effectivness and efficiency
[01:52] <lophyte> I mean, if I use the channel and ML to point me in the right direction.. I might ask person A something today, and a week later ask person B.. and person B will have no idea about my previous experience
[01:52] <lophyte> whereas with mentors... the mentor knows what the mentee has done in terms of MOTU work
[01:52] <LaserJock> right, and they might also give you a different answer
[01:52] <lophyte> yeah
[01:52] <zul> maybe look at recruiting in the forums
[01:53] <LaserJock> I did a little of that with my MOTU School session
[01:53] <LaserJock> got a few people to show up
[01:53] <lophyte> I personally like the idea of the teams as well
[01:53] <lophyte> I feel more motivated when I know there's others working with me on something.. like yesterday when a few of us said we wanted to tackle unmet deps together
[01:53] <LaserJock> but to be honest. I don' think I've had a single MOTU Hopeful come out of my MOTU Mentoring or MOTU School sessions
[01:54] <lophyte> what's the definition of hopeful, anyway?
[01:54] <lophyte> like, what differs a hopeful from someone who's interested in becoming a MOTU but doens't have any experience
[01:54] <LaserJock> somebody who is working there way towards MOTUship
[01:54] <lophyte> ah
[01:54] <LaserJock> some people really have no intention of becoming a MOTU
[01:55] <LaserJock> I  would call them contributors in general
[01:55] <LaserJock> Hopefuls are saying, I want to seriously become a MOTU and am working in that direction
[01:55] <lophyte> I'd call myself a hopeful by a longshot, but a hopeful nonetheless
[01:58] <LaserJock> sure
[01:58] <lophyte> I think you're right when you (or whoever it was) said that newcomers will be most confused when they join mid-release
[01:58] <LaserJock> so the question is, how effective is MOTU Mentors and MOTU School in producing MOTUs
[01:59] <LaserJock> they are both pretty time intensive so if they aren't working we shouldn't be wasting effort
[01:59] <lophyte> no idea, actually
[02:00] <lophyte> heya
[02:01] <crimsun> it might be more effective, actually, to consider podcasting school sessions
[02:01] <lophyte> that's a good idea
[02:01] <LaserJock> hmm
[02:01] <lophyte> and if there's any questions, people can contact whoever gave the session
[02:02] <ajmitch> LaserJock: MOTU stuff requires a lot of practice, sadly
[02:02] <bddebian> Heya gang
[02:02] <ajmitch> hi
[02:03] <bddebian> Heya ajmitch
[02:03] <LaserJock> ajmitch: maybe that's a key thing
[02:03] <LaserJock> maybe we aren't giving people enough practice
[02:04] <bddebian> Or maybe they just don't have the drive? :)
[02:04] <LaserJock> part of this push on REVU
[02:04] <LaserJock> is that you aren't going to get much practice packaging NEW apps very fast
[02:05] <LaserJock> it's good practice
[02:05] <LaserJock> but you don't get a whole lot of it
[02:06] <LaserJock> bddebian and ajmitch: please check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JordanMantha/MotuManagement
[02:06] <LaserJock> if you haven't already
[02:08] <ajmitch> LaserJock: yes I just took a quick look
[02:09] <bddebian> Wow, go LaserJock
[02:09] <minghua> LaserJock: I appreciate your work on this, for sure
[02:10] <LaserJock> minghua: well, first the problems, then the solutions ;-)
[02:10] <LaserJock> if we had all the solutions we wouldn't have problems ;-)
[02:10] <ajmitch> LaserJock: biggest issue that crops up everywhere - time
[02:11] <ajmitch> LaserJock: don't we have you as our new motu manager now? ;)
[02:11] <LaserJock> ajmitch: yes, time is the biggest constraint really
[02:11] <LaserJock> hi Fujitsu
[02:12] <Fujitsu> Hi LaserJock.
[02:12] <Fujitsu> maxima works, yay.
[02:12] <crimsun> excellent
[02:12] <Fujitsu> I had a look at the gcl fixes since Dapper...
[02:12] <Fujitsu> They're absolutely enormous.
[02:12] <crimsun> I think lj found a missing if () or something
[02:13] <LaserJock> yeah, it was a missing "else"
[02:13] <LaserJock> I think
[02:13] <zul> what the hell is maxima
[02:13] <Fujitsu> That was a regression from Dapper, I believe.
[02:13] <Fujitsu> zul, a Computer Algebra System.
[02:14] <zul> ah
[02:14] <Fujitsu> The diff for -21 (I think that was the version of the socket error fix) doesn't apply to the Dapper version, that line of code was completely rewritten. The bug was introduced when that code was rewritten.
[02:14] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: hmm, well I looked at that line and the only difference was a missing "else"
[02:15] <Fujitsu> Dapper has -14, right?
[02:15] <LaserJock> right
[02:16] <Fujitsu> What is with maxima? The .orig.tar.gz is 7.8MB, the diff.gz is like 14MB!
[02:16] <LaserJock> yeah
[02:16] <minghua> heh
[02:17] <minghua> some autotools stuff, I suppose
[02:17] <minghua> ?
[02:17] <Fujitsu> I don't believe so
[02:18] <LaserJock> ah
[02:18] <LaserJock> it's almost entirerly from a binutils dir
[02:18] <Fujitsu> The socket write error fix was -20 -> -21... A single line change, adding an else.
[02:18] <LaserJock> right
[02:18] <Fujitsu> However, that line has been rewritten since -14.
[02:18] <LaserJock> how so?
[02:19] <zul> grr...i should stop reading the forum
[02:20] <Fujitsu> I'll be back in a sec, got to go to form assembly...
[02:20] <LaserJock> zul: oh no
[02:23] <LaserJock> oh, I see it
[02:23] <LaserJock> hmm
[02:24] <ajmitch> LaserJock: pain & suffering
[02:24] <LaserJock> so I wonder if putting gcl -21 into -updates would make archive-admin throw a fit
[02:25] <ajmitch> why would it?
[02:25] <LaserJock> it's a rather large diff
[02:25] <LaserJock> and we only want a small fix I think
[02:25] <Fujitsu_> LaserJock, it would make everybody collapse and die, I think.
[02:25] <LaserJock> I just don't see how we are going to seperate that out
[02:26] <LaserJock> finding a fix for -14 that happened in -21
[02:26] <Fujitsu_> It's really non-trivial to locate, the diff is gargantuan.
[02:26] <LaserJock> the tracking of -14 to -20 is the problem
[02:26] <Fujitsu_> The fix in -21 ONLY affects the code from after -14.
[02:26] <Fujitsu_> That bug was introduced when the line was rewritten.
[02:27] <minghua> if that's the case, why doesn't dapper work already?
[02:27] <Fujitsu_> There must be another bug.
[02:27] <LaserJock> oh man
[02:27] <LaserJock> how do you know it only affects the code after -14?
[02:27] <Fujitsu_> The issue fixed in -21 is that the second bit was ALWAYS executed.
[02:28] <LaserJock> k, that makes sense
[02:28] <LaserJock> so it was after they rewrote that line?
[02:28] <Fujitsu_> Yes.
[02:29] <Fujitsu_> That bug isn't in -14, there must be another one.
[02:29] <LaserJock> yucky yucky yucky
[02:29] <LaserJock> hmm, maybe we should just shoot for > -21
[02:30] <LaserJock> edgy seems to find it ok
[02:30] <Fujitsu_> Anybody up for wading through 53881 lines of diff?
[02:30] <LaserJock> not I
[02:30] <minghua> LOL
[02:30] <LaserJock> if it was just maxima I wouldn't have a problem with grabing the edgy version
[02:30] <ajmitch> Fujitsu_: that's a bit of a silly question
[02:31] <LaserJock> all maxima frontends are completely useless at the moment
[02:31] <Fujitsu_> LaserJock, exactly... But it's not :(
[02:31] <LaserJock> so it can only get better ;-)
[02:31] <LaserJock> but gcl might effect other things
[02:31] <LaserJock> I'd hate for us to introduce a regression
[02:31] <LaserJock> although ...
[02:32] <LaserJock> the packages in dapper would actually have to be rebuilt to have a problem with a new gcl
[02:32] <LaserJock> although ...
[02:32] <LaserJock> having a different version of gcl than what the packages were built on is a little creepy
[02:33] <ajmitch> & is quite usual
[02:33] <LaserJock> but it is -updates so people can still have the gcl version that was shipped with Dapper easily enough too
[02:33] <LaserJock> bah, this stinks
[02:35] <Fujitsu_> I'm looking through the diff.
[02:35] <Fujitsu_> Most of it is CVS meta-data.
[02:36] <LaserJock> well, I suppose we could work it up with gcl -22 and rebuild of Maxima and see if it goes through
[02:44] <LaserJock> ok, I'm heading home
[02:44] <LaserJock> I'll bbiab
[02:46] <Fujitsu> Bye.
[02:46] <Fujitsu> Only 29387 lines of non-CVS-metadata diff. Great.
[02:49] <crimsun> I think that was about half of the alsa backporting work I did for dapper ;)
[02:49] <Fujitsu> Ouch.
[02:49] <crimsun> (it wasn't nearly as bad as it sounds)
[02:49] <ajmitch> crimsun: but how many lines of that was structures, PCI ids, etc?
[02:50] <crimsun> ajmitch: probably a good 3/5
[02:50] <ajmitch> not so bad
[02:50] <ajmitch> still a lot of code to go through
[02:54] <minghua> Hmm, maxima is not in Debian testing, interesting
[03:02] <imbrandon> moins all
[03:03] <Fujitsu> Hi imbrandon.
[03:04] <imbrandon> heya Fujitsu
[03:04] <ajmitch> hi imbrandon
[03:04] <imbrandon> hiya ajmitch
[03:04] <imbrandon> howd the script run , good results ?
[03:05] <imbrandon> ( i realize your probably still wadeing though it )
[03:05] <imbrandon> s/good/expected/
[03:05] <ajmitch> caught a few, haven't had much time at my machine to do any wading
[03:05] <imbrandon> ;)
[03:06] <imbrandon> cool
[03:08] <ajmitch> imbrandon: I'll try & upload a few more rebuilds tonight
[03:09] <imbrandon> sweet, if you give me ( or post ) a list somewhere i can do some too
[03:09] <imbrandon> awe man
[03:09] <imbrandon> i just got the amarok 1.4.4 schedule, its to be released one day before edgy
[03:10] <imbrandon> looks like that will be edgy+1
[03:10] <crimsun> snarf cvs/svn ;)
[03:10] <imbrandon> hehe
[03:10] <imbrandon> heya crimsun
[03:10] <crimsun> hi
[03:11] <imbrandon> feature / string freeze is in 10 days , so i could scavage svn after that for fixes
[03:31] <Toadstool> 'evening
[03:31] <Plug> 'earlyafternoon
[03:31] <Toadstool> :)
[04:01] <imbrandon> wow room droped off
[04:04] <crimsun> ($time_of_day , probably)
[04:17] <ehazlett> hey all, im not sure if im in the right place, but i was looking for some info on creating an alternate install cd
[04:21] <Plug> Oooh. I can help you there
[04:23] <ehazlett> Plug: i saw in debian a package for building cd
[04:23] <ehazlett> cds with scripts, but i can't find the same for ubuntu...
[04:23] <Plug> Do you want to build a CD or modify one?
[04:24] <ehazlett> i would like to take a list of packages and generate an alternate install disc
[04:24] <ehazlett> from scratch
[04:24] <Plug> https://launchpad.net/products/ubuntu-cdimage
[04:24] <Plug> I've never done that
[04:24] <ehazlett> awesome...  thanks.
[04:24] <Plug> I've customised a build CD regularly though
[04:24] <Plug> in fact I'm updating mine now :)
[04:24] <ehazlett> have you heard of reconstructor?
[04:26] <Plug> nope
[04:27] <ehazlett> ok...  just thought i would ask  :)  thanks for the help...
[04:28] <Plug> it makes Live CDs?
[04:28] <ehazlett> customizes the ubuntu Live cd
[04:28] <ehazlett> yeah, and generates them...
[04:29] <_MMA_> http://reconstructor.aperantis.com/
[04:30] <_MMA_> I use it for Mubuntu.
[04:31] <Plug> Cool.
[04:31] <_MMA_> I just got off the phone with its dev. Hes planning on adding "Alt" cd creation.
[04:31] <Plug> Cool.
[04:31] <Plug> Servers don't get GUI setup discs :)
[04:32] <Fujitsu_> :O
[04:32] <Fujitsu_> I think I isolated the gcl patch!!!
[04:39] <LaserJock> Fujitsu_: !?!
[04:39] <Fujitsu> Currently rebuilding -14 to check that it wasn't just my rebuilding.
[04:41] <Plug> Anyone got a script that goes through a dir of .debs and keeps on the most recent version of each (based on filename)?
[04:42] <LaserJock> Plug: heh, I was just thinking the same thing
[04:43] <ajmitch> Plug: nope, I just fill up my disk :)
[04:43] <Plug> it'd take a bit of bash and dpkg --compare-versions
[04:43] <Plug> but I'm lazy
[04:43] <Plug> and am sure someone has written this already
[04:43] <ajmitch> partly because I can't be bothered writing a script to cleanup, even though it'd be fairly simple
[04:44] <Plug> my problem exactly!
[04:44] <Plug> I should pose it as a 5 min Python problem for Isomer
[04:44] <Plug> he loves those
[04:45] <minghua> it's written for your APT cache, called "apt-get autoclean", but I don't know how for an arbitrary dir
[04:45] <StevenK> apt-get autoclean uses its lists to determine which versions to keep.
[04:45] <Plug> "apt-get autoclean removes only package files that can no longer be downloaded."
[04:46] <minghua> yeah, apt-get autoclean is actually different
[04:46] <minghua> it uses the Release file instead of looking which one is the newest
[04:47] <Plug> What's apt-smartclean, then?
[04:47] <minghua> so I suppose there is market for a new script :-)
[04:47] <Plug> sounds like its for apt4rpm
[04:47] <ajmitch> Plug: even better, I've got a python module that means you don't need to call out to dpkg & slow everything down
[04:47] <StevenK> Linda has one, too.
[04:47] <ajmitch> it sped up a script that took 10 minutes to run down to a few seconds
[04:47] <ajmitch> StevenK: I borrowed it from britney
[04:48] <Plug> looking good here
[04:48] <StevenK> You could use python-apt, too.
[04:48] <Plug> http://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/linux/suse/apt/SuSE/9.2-i386/RPMS.suser-oc2pus/rpmkey-suser-oc2pus-0.1-0.noarch.rpm
[04:48] <StevenK> Except python-apt sucks.
[04:48] <ajmitch> that's just boring
[04:48] <Plug> wonder if I have RPM anywhere? :)
[04:48] <ajmitch> you probably do
[04:48] <Plug> well, I could install it
[04:50] <Plug> woop!  I can run alien on it and treat it like a package :)
[04:50] <ajmitch> Plug: and be outcast
[04:50] <Plug> I'm just trying to extract the script
[04:50] <Plug> I dont want the package
[04:51] <Plug> you thought i was goign to ask you to sponsor an alien'd rpm into universe? :)
[04:51] <ajmitch> that's like people coming to us & asking if we can upload checkinstall-created .debs to universe
[04:51] <ajmitch> no, I know you're not that stupid
[04:51] <StevenK> Someone said the c word
[04:51] <Fujitsu> StevenK, you missed the kick/ban button.
[04:52] <Plug> I can't remember (or be bothered looking) how to manually unpack an RPM!
[04:52] <StevenK> Plug: rpm2cpio
[04:52] <Fujitsu> It's like so:
[04:52] <StevenK> cpio -i
[04:52] <Fujitsu> shred -u whatever.rpm
[04:53] <StevenK> Just like 'rm -rf' is read mail, really fast.
[04:53] <bddebian> haha
[04:53] <crimsun> the best lossy compression there is
[04:54] <Plug> i'm a dick
[04:54] <StevenK> Hard to beat 100% compression.
[04:54] <Plug> i got the RPM with his GPG key
[04:54] <Plug> not the RPM with the script :)
[04:55] <Fujitsu> That's the spirit, Plug!
[04:55] <StevenK> Hrm.
[04:55] <Plug> never you mind Fujitsu, i've been hating on RPM for many years ;)
[04:55] <StevenK> It looks like Edgy unmounts removeable media before suspending
[04:56] <ajmitch> StevenK: probably a wise move for usb devices
[04:56] <ajmitch> I don't know if they'll be powered at all when the system is suspended
[04:56] <Plug> so, after all that, I actually found the home page for the program in the RPM
[04:56] <Plug> http://home.tiscali.cz:8080/~cz210552/aptsmartclean.html
[04:57] <Fujitsu> ...........
[04:57] <Fujitsu> aptsmartclean in an... RPM!?
[04:57] <ajmitch> Plug: right, a 5 minute python job..
[04:57] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: yes?
[04:57] <StevenK> ajmitch: Point.
[04:57] <ajmitch> we have a centos box here, with apt
[04:58] <StevenK> ajmitch: Dapper didn't do that.,
[04:58] <StevenK> s/,//
[04:58] <Toadstool> hi! I prepared a rpm with checkinstall and converted to a .deb with alien, can anyone upload it to universe? :p
[04:58] <ajmitch> Toadstool: sure!
[04:58] <Plug> Toadstool: those belong in 'main'
[04:58] <Plug> you need to go ask in #ubuntu-devel :)
[04:58] <Toadstool> :)
[04:58] <ajmitch> Toadstool: what's the forum URL?
[04:58] <Toadstool> ajmitch: heh
[04:58] <StevenK> Toadstool: Sure, I'll just use the new upload tool, 'rm' instead of 'dput'
[04:59] <Fujitsu> We need a plugin for Ubugtu to do that.
[04:59] <Toadstool> Seveas: ^
[04:59] <Toadstool> ;)
[04:59] <bddebian> heh
[05:16] <Fujitsu> gcl really does take a while to compile...
[05:16] <imbrandon> mv *.exe *.deb
[05:17] <imbrandon> heh
[05:17] <Fujitsu> TRAITOR!
[05:17] <Plug> <3
[05:17] <Fujitsu> On two counts!
[05:17] <Plug> this is exactly what I needed
[05:17] <imbrandon> heh
[05:18] <imbrandon> wonder if it works for osx .pkg files to .deb too
[05:18] <imbrandon> ;)
[05:20] <LaserJock> imbrandon: dude, you might be getting seriously close to being the first person to have their core-dev privilages removed
[05:20] <LaserJock> ;-)
[05:20] <Fujitsu> HAHAHA.
[05:20] <imbrandon> hahhahahaha
[05:20] <bddebian> hah
[05:21] <Fujitsu> *eternal
[05:21] <Fujitsu> +1 LaserJock
[05:22] <imbrandon> heh
[05:22] <Fujitsu> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
[05:23] <Fujitsu> *gets
[05:23] <Fujitsu> Ooh, gcl finally finished rebuilding.
[05:24] <Fujitsu> I don't know how I can possibly do any Debian packaging from inside a Solaris package, but meh.,
[05:24] <ajmitch> StevenK: that is cruel
[05:25] <LaserJock> I need him
[05:25] <LaserJock> sorry guys
[05:25] <Fujitsu> Thanks, LaserJock :)
[05:25] <Fujitsu> Currently rebuilding maxima with the rebuild -14 gcl...
[05:28] <Fujitsu> HAHAH!
[05:28] <Fujitsu> It doesn't work!
[05:28] <Fujitsu> I've isolated the patch!
[05:29] <LaserJock> what doesn't work?
[05:29] <minghua> Fujitsu rocks
[05:29] <Fujitsu> LaserJock, I isolated the patch, build gcl whatever-14ubuntu1, built maxima with it, it worked. I just rebuilt -14, rebuild maxima with it, and it doesn't work.
[05:30] <Plug> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RemovingOldPackageVersions
[05:30] <Fujitsu> So it's this nice patch here which makes it work.
[05:31] <ajmitch> Plug: fancy
[05:32] <Plug> its exactly what I needed.  I love when the Internet does that.
[05:35] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: how big is the patch
[05:36] <Plug> I should learn Python.
[05:37] <ajmitch> hg has some nice features
[05:37] <ajmitch> Plug: I agree
[05:43] <Plug> someone recommend me a good learning Python book.
[05:43] <crimsun> diveintopython.
[05:44] <ajmitch> and I thought you claimed to not be a coder
[05:45] <Plug> ajmitch: I do
[05:46] <Plug> thing is, I don't program enough to remember syntaxes or APIs
[05:46] <Plug> and I don't hugely -enjoy- it
[05:46] <Plug> but I do enough scripting that I bang my head against the bash wall.
[05:47] <ajmitch> python tends to be much nicer for anything substantial
[05:49] <Plug> wonder if anyone in .nz will have diveintopython in dead-tree
[05:49] <Plug> might be time for an Amazon order
[05:49] <imbrandon> Plug, it should be on your hdd
[05:50] <ajmitch> as he says, dead tree is easier reading
[05:51] <imbrandon> ahh ;)
[05:54] <ajmitch> yay, new xen-3.0 built
[05:54] <ajmitch> I wonder if we can get a UVF exception for this
[05:57] <minghua> but it seems nobody updates diveintopython anymore
[05:57] <minghua> and while I agree it's good, I still don't have a clear idea about python after reading it
[05:59] <crimsun> I recommend Apress's Beginning Python or Practical Python, then
[05:59] <crimsun> the former is really something nice.
[06:01] <minghua> Beginning Python has 5 stars on amazon, I think I'll try that
[06:01] <minghua> crimsun: thanks
[06:01] <crimsun> np
[06:03] <minghua> crimsun: so those two books are essentially two editions of the same book, aren't they?
[06:04] <crimsun> minghua: the former is distilled from the latter, so they're not really two editions of the same book, no
[06:05] <minghua> okay
[06:05] <crimsun> I think the former is ... well, if I can say it, more readable
[06:09] <LaserJock> cb2_Simw
[06:09] <LaserJock> well, that stinks
[06:15] <imbrandon> tar -cf brandon.home.tar brandon
[06:15] <imbrandon> gah
[06:16] <Plug> Password:
[06:16] <Plug> ;)
[06:17] <imbrandon> heh
[06:20] <FunnyLookinHat> Got this error when trying to install gnomesword with synaptic on edgy:
[06:20] <FunnyLookinHat> gnomesword:
[06:20] <FunnyLookinHat>  Depends: libsword5c2a (>=1.5.8-7) but it is not installable
[06:21] <FunnyLookinHat> I didn't pastebin b/c it wa sjust a line, srry for spam
[06:21] <LaserJock> FunnyLookinHat: yep, it's broke
[06:21] <FunnyLookinHat> How would I go about fixing it?
[06:22] <ajmitch> build-deps need updated
[06:22] <LaserJock> figure out why it's broken ;-)
[06:22] <ajmitch> needs a rebuild
[06:22] <ajmitch> may need API changes
[06:22] <FunnyLookinHat> ooh ok
[06:22] <LaserJock> yes
[06:22] <LaserJock> it's broken
[06:22] <FunnyLookinHat> I'm close to the dev team for project, so I'll talk with them
[06:23] <LaserJock> FunnyLookinHat: that's me
[06:23] <ajmitch> heh
[06:23] <LaserJock> we uploaded libsword6
[06:23] <FunnyLookinHat> errr
[06:23] <FunnyLookinHat> : )
[06:23] <LaserJock> but gnomesword is FTBFS
[06:23] <FunnyLookinHat> I'm so not with it tongith
[06:23] <LaserJock> with libsword6
[06:24] <ajmitch> LaserJock: isn't glasseyes maintainer of gnomesword in debian?
[06:24] <LaserJock> yes
[06:25] <ajmitch> sweet, upstream of gktools got back to me & has hopefully resolved licensing issues
[06:26] <imbrandon> cool
[06:27] <imbrandon> sometimes upstream can be slow
[06:27] <ajmitch> he initially replied within an hour or two of my first mail
[06:27] <ajmitch> I was impressed
[06:27] <imbrandon> wow , nice
[06:27] <imbrandon> yea
[06:28] <ajmitch> whereas other upstreams, I have their home phone numbers :)
[06:28] <imbrandon> haha ;)
[06:30] <LaserJock> I have one of my upstream cell number
[06:30] <LaserJock> although I don't know why I'd call myself
[06:31] <imbrandon> heh i have one too, my own ;( lol
[06:31] <ajmitch> that hardly counts
[06:31] <imbrandon> lol
[06:32] <imbrandon> well i have a ubuntu/canonical emplyee's number ( although like LaserJock i dunno why i would ever use it, err for that matter where i stuck it )
[06:32] <ajmitch> sure, they hand them out on their business cards
[06:33] <imbrandon> heh well i've never met anyone else ( other than my lug ) that uses ubuntu soooo
[06:33] <LaserJock> yeah, well I got to use a Canonical employees phone so :p
[06:33] <imbrandon> haha
[06:33] <ajmitch> but you're a raging MOTU-holic
[06:33] <ajmitch> and so being far above us mortals ;)
[06:33] <crimsun> :D
[06:33] <LaserJock> haha
[06:34] <imbrandon> i actualy had my number and mobile on my blog for a long time, but then when i redid it i took it off, as there isnt ever really a reason to call
[06:34] <nixternal> i have imbrandon's phone number, and anyone who visits the Bloomingdales in downtown Chicago, and uses the bathroom will have it too ;)
[06:34] <ajmitch> haha
[06:34] <imbrandon> sides if there is a emergency i'm sure its not hard to whois imbrandon.com ;)
[06:34] <LaserJock> lol
[06:34] <imbrandon> hahahaha
[06:35] <imbrandon> i forgot i gave it to nixternal for a wakeup call the day of the MOTU tb meeting
[06:35] <imbrandon> heh
[06:35] <imbrandon> but like i said its not har to whois a domain i own ;)
[06:35] <nixternal> no...you gave me your number for a wakeup call for the paris sprint i thought
[06:35] <ajmitch> I remember \sh calling here at about 5AM one morning since I was meant to give a MOTU school session
[06:36] <LaserJock> hah
[06:36] <imbrandon> nixternal, err yea it was a wakeup call for something
[06:36] <nixternal> it has been in kontact for a long time
[06:36] <ajmitch> of course I never heard nor answered the phone
[06:36] <ajmitch> so my flatmate wondered why foreign people were calling at that hour
[06:36] <nixternal> i will tell them the truth..it wasn't a wakeup call...crimsun called it the other night ;)
[06:36] <imbrandon> lol ajmitch
[06:37] <imbrandon> huh ?
[06:37] <nixternal> oh sweety, don't play all innocent now ;)
[06:38] <LaserJock> oh man
[06:38] <nixternal> im going to stop
[06:38] <LaserJock> I'm leaving
[06:38] <nixternal> cutiecoder is in offtopic and imbrandon will get something started
[06:38] <whiprush> hi guys!
[06:38] <whiprush> hi ajmitch!!
[06:38] <nixternal> wasabi whip!
[06:38] <ajmitch> hey whiprush
[06:38] <nixternal> how are the storms in ohio right now?
[06:38] <ajmitch> how's it going?
[06:39] <whiprush> nixternal: I am back in michigan
[06:39] <imbrandon> heya whiprush
[06:39] <nixternal> i will be in michigan in 2 weeks visiting my granny
[06:39] <whiprush> ajmitch: good good, man, I ran into some serious directory people at ohiolinux
[06:39] <whiprush> hi brandon
[06:39] <ajmitch> whiprush: I envy you
[06:39] <whiprush> nixternal: oh yeah, where at?
[06:39] <nixternal> benton harbor area
[06:39] <ajmitch> whiprush: got everything sorted for UDS as well?
[06:39] <whiprush> ajmitch: they asked all the tough questions.
[06:39] <whiprush> ajmitch: yep, I think so.
[06:40] <nixternal> <voice style="icecube">southwest side</voice>
[06:40] <whiprush> I wish my more technical friends would be more involved though, they'd do a better job than have me bumbling around trying to figure this out.
[06:42] <imbrandon> heh
[06:44] <LaserJock> hmm, we need a "MOTU Wants You!" poster with dholbach on it ;-)
[06:44] <imbrandon> hehe
[07:01] <LaserJock> what the guy saying in -devel?
[07:02] <Fujitsu> LaserJock:
[07:02] <Fujitsu>  1 file changed, 15 insertions(+), 10 deletions(-)
[07:02] <LaserJock> excelllent
[07:02] <Fujitsu> The file in question is file.d.
[07:03] <Fujitsu> And the patch can be reduced even further I believe.
[07:03] <Fujitsu> As there are two distinct parts....
[07:03] <Fujitsu> One of them is just changing the variable holding a PID from an int to a long, which can easily be obliterated :)
[07:05] <Fujitsu> I can reduce the patch to 3 modifications and 5 additions trivially.
[07:07] <Fujitsu> But I'm off home now, I'll be back in about 45 minutes.
[08:18] <LaserJock> hi Fujitsu
[08:18] <Fujitsu> Hi LaserJock.
[08:20] <Fujitsu> Ah fsck. The two external machines I use for build-testing are... not connectable.
[08:22] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, nother 2 days give or take i'll have mine back up for ya ( and Hobbsee )
[08:22] <Fujitsu> Ah, OK, thanks :)
[08:22] <imbrandon> ;)
[08:22] <Fujitsu> Is that the one with the hard drive failure?
[08:22] <imbrandon> yea
[08:22] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: yay :)
[08:22] <Fujitsu> Aha.
[08:23] <Fujitsu> Unfortunately, Burgundavia's machine also seems to not be too responsive at this time.
[08:23] <imbrandon> i can build test something if you wish though on my ppc, its just slow for large builds
[08:23] <imbrandon> but horatio only runs a dapper livecd atm heh
[08:24] <Fujitsu> Heheh.
[08:24] <Fujitsu> No, I'll just build it here, hopefully...
[08:24] <imbrandon> ;)
[08:24] <Fujitsu> This build generally takes about two hours, unfortunately.
[08:24] <imbrandon> wow
[08:24] <imbrandon> for what ?
[08:24] <Fujitsu> Or well over one hour.
[08:24] <Fujitsu> gcl
[08:25] <Fujitsu> It is gigantic.
[08:25] <imbrandon> koffice takes about 3.5 on horatio
[08:25] <StevenK> I remember vtk taking an hour on liquified
[08:25] <imbrandon> thats the bigest thing i build on any kinda normalk basis
[08:25] <Fujitsu> Simply extracting the source archive takes more than a minute (14MiB .diff.gz)
[08:25] <StevenK> (Which is nothing to sneeze at, being a 3GHz amd64)
[08:25] <Fujitsu> imbrandon, but that's KDE.
[08:26] <imbrandon> heh kde its self ( kdebase and kdelibs ) dont take that long to build
[08:26] <imbrandon> ~30 minutes or so
[08:26] <imbrandon> its koffice and gcc that takes forever ( for me )
[08:26] <Fujitsu> Yeah..
[08:27] <imbrandon> never timed gcc but it take a good while
[08:27] <LaserJock> well, I did gcl on my 1.3GHz P4
[08:27] <LaserJock> that took a bit
[08:28] <imbrandon> and funny enough, i have no idea why but kvirc take longer to build than kdebase
[08:28] <imbrandon> kvirc takes FOREVER , like 1+ hours
[08:29] <imbrandon> for just an irc client
[08:29] <Fujitsu> Useless.
[08:30] <Fujitsu>  1 file changed, 8 insertions(+), 3 deletions(-)
[08:30] <Fujitsu> That's my final patch.
[08:30] <StevenK> Oh, nice.
[08:30] <imbrandon> yea useless considering there is like 1 whole user of kvirc i think
[08:30] <Fujitsu> Now, this had better work...
[08:30] <StevenK> ia64 build of vtk 5.0.1-1 in ubuntu edgy RELEASE
[08:30] <StevenK> Build finished:   2006-09-02 10:42:40 EST (2 hours 30 minutes)
[08:30] <imbrandon> and its not even me
[08:30] <Fujitsu> StevenK, nice.
[08:30] <imbrandon> wow
[08:31] <StevenK> It's nice having a machine quicker than an Itantic buildd
[08:31] <imbrandon> heh yea
[08:31] <imbrandon> itaniums are slow but stable from what i've seen ( stable only becouse most of the time they only run mission critical software that would make a 286 stable )
[08:32] <imbrandon> i've only seen 1 or 2 , and that was at my old job, they got sold and phased out pretty fast
[08:33] <StevenK> It managed to heat up the outside of my bag from 2 metres away.
[08:33] <imbrandon> hahaha
[08:34] <Burgundavia> Fujitsu: my machine is currently off, that is why
[08:34] <Fujitsu> Burgundavia, that'd do it :)
[08:35] <imbrandon> heya Burgundavia
[08:35] <Burgundavia> Fujitsu: it will be back on as of tomorrow, for a few days while I am in boston. I need to buy a quieter power supply so I can sleep with it on
[08:36] <Burgundavia> hey imbrandon
[08:36] <Fujitsu> LaserJock, thanks for that response to 37169. I was about to say the same thing when I noticed your comment :)
[08:36] <Fujitsu> Burgundavia, aha.
[08:36] <StevenK> Burgundavia: I solved that problem - I put the computers in another room.
[08:36] <Burgundavia> StevenK: I don't have another room
[08:38] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: mhm
[08:42] <Fujitsu> As you probably noticed, I got fed up with the Thiloisms, so reversed a number of them.
[08:42] <LaserJock> heh
[08:43] <Laser_away> night everybody
[08:43] <Fujitsu> It'd be nice to have a visible indication as to the upstream state of a bug (ie. whether it isn't known to affect, affects, or has been forwarded).
[08:43] <Fujitsu> 'night, Laser_away.
[08:44] <Fujitsu> O_o
[08:44] <Fujitsu> This Pentium M 1.6 is compiling a lot faster than the P4 2.8 I was on before.
[08:47] <imbrandon> heh
[08:55] <dholbach> good morning
[08:57] <imbrandon> heya dholbach
[08:57] <dholbach> heya imbrandon
[08:57] <crimsun> these forum posts are bewildering
[08:58] <Fujitsu> crimsun, which?
[08:59] <crimsun> jdong pointed me to http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=270676 , saying the bugfix wasn't correct (?)
[08:59] <crimsun> one of lodp and jdong is clearly misled
[08:59] <laska> hello room. I'm looking for help with installing something for FF in ubuntu to watch live radio
[08:59] <crimsun> it can't simultaneously work and /not/ work
[09:00] <crimsun> 'morning dholbach
[09:00] <dholbach> hey guys
[09:00] <dholbach> hey crimsun
[09:00] <laska> is  anyone have any suggestions
[09:01] <dholbach> :)
[09:01] <crimsun> you've got the crazy desktop boogs :)
[09:01] <imbrandon> boogs hehe
[09:01] <dholbach> hehe :)
[09:20] <imbrandon> heh
[09:20] <Lathiat> 'karma' :)
[09:20] <imbrandon> yea but i dont think you can see actual bugs
[09:39] <ajmitch> StevenK: not enough
[09:40] <StevenK> ajmitch: Pfff
[09:42] <StevenK> steven@liquified:~/ubuntu/firebird2/firebird2-1.5.3.4870% wc -l debian/patches/* | tail -n 1 57275 total
[09:42] <StevenK> Oooh, now I have a warm and cosy feeling, too.
[09:42] <Lathiat> haha
[09:42] <Lathiat> class
[09:44] <ajmitch> special
[09:44] <StevenK> # Initialize k to one
[09:44] <StevenK> k=0
[09:44] <ajmitch> haha!
[09:44] <ajmitch> that's an interesting definition of 1
[09:44] <StevenK> Indeed.
[09:45] <imbrandon> lol
[10:04] <minghua> there are so many old dapper bugs that only have me, the reporter, and ubuntu-bugs as subscriber :-(
[10:06] <ajmitch> hello Hobbsee
[10:07] <Gloubiboulga> dholbach, the new Xffm (4.5.0) is now modular and all its modules are in edgy, but I'd like to update the xffm4 (currently 4.3.3.1) package to move it into a metapackage. Do I need to fill an UVF bug for this?
[10:07] <dholbach> Gloubiboulga: that's main, no?
[10:07] <Hobbsee> hey ajmitch
[10:08] <Gloubiboulga> dholbach, no, universe
[10:08] <dholbach> oh?
[10:08] <Gloubiboulga> yep, it's the old file manager
[10:08] <ajmitch> thunar replaced it, didn't it?
[10:08] <Gloubiboulga> which can browse samba network (thunar can't)
[10:09] <Gloubiboulga> ajmitch, yes, but a lot of users want to use samba, and there's no plugin for thunar yet
[10:10] <dholbach> Gloubiboulga: i trust your judgement and I know that you will fix bugs that are introduced by the update, but i'd still like to see a changelog - does that make sensen?
[10:11] <Gloubiboulga> dholbach, well, everything is in the repos already, but it's split in 8 packages
[10:12] <dholbach> oh, now I understand
[10:12] <dholbach> sure that's fine - go ahead
[10:12] <Gloubiboulga> thanks
[10:12] <ajmitch> which is a little hard :)
[10:15] <ajmitch> dholbach: I've got xen-3.0 here - update is from rc1 to rc2, but they don't really supply any changelog
[10:16] <dholbach> ajmitch: hrm, any NEWS file? any git log or something?
[10:17] <ajmitch> hg log, I'll attach that
[10:17] <ajmitch> I've got the diffstat now after filtering out the .hg stuff
[10:17] <dholbach> super
[10:17] <dholbach> gracias
[10:18] <ajmitch> the package is also much much smaller since I exported it from hg, rather than including all the hg metadata :)
[10:20] <dholbach> oh :-)
[10:21] <dholbach> ajmitch: did you chat with zul about the update?
[10:21] <ajmitch> yes
[10:21] <ajmitch> 11:28 <ajmitch> is there an rc2 tarball released, or just hg?
[10:21] <ajmitch> 11:28 <zul> i think there is a tarball have to check
[10:21] <ajmitch> 11:28 <zul> if you want to upload it go ahead
[10:22] <dholbach> ok cool
[10:30] <ajmitch> dholbach_: ok, assigned to uvf team now :)
[10:31] <dholbach_> super
[10:36] <StevenK> ajmitch: Does that mean you can approve your own UVF exception?
[10:36] <ajmitch> StevenK: no, I don't think I would
[10:36] <ajmitch> there needs to be 2 approvals anyway
[10:37] <ajmitch> more that "it wouldn't be fair for others"
[10:43] <Fujitsu> How likely is it that a backported fix for gcl will get into Dapper, fixing the (w)xmaxima-doesn't-work-at-all bug? I believe it comes under the `severe regressions' category on StableReleaseUpdates, and a large number of people have asked for it to be fixed...
[10:44] <ajmitch> ask dholbach when he's back - we don't have a set policy at the moment for universe updates
[10:44] <Fujitsu> OK.
[10:45] <ajmitch> I'll happily support it if the fix is small & sane
[10:45] <Fujitsu> I've finally isolated the gcl patch... Death to all 58000-line diffs!
[10:45] <Fujitsu> Yeah, 3 modifications, 5 insertions.
[10:45] <ajmitch> it may be that the uvf team ends up handling -updates as well
[10:45] <Fujitsu> And we finally get maxima working!
[10:45] <ajmitch> we'll try & arrange something :)
[10:46] <Fujitsu> dholbach!
 How likely is it that a backported fix for gcl will get into Dapper, fixing the (w)xmaxima-doesn't-work-at-all bug? I believe it comes under the `severe regressions' category on StableReleaseUpdates, and a large number of people have asked for it to be fixed...
[10:46] <Fujitsu> (ajmitch said you're the person to ask)
[10:47] <ajmitch> dholbach: apparantly mdz is fine with MOTUs sorting out something amongst ourselves for -updates
[10:47] <Fujitsu> ajmitch, that's a good idea.
[10:47] <ajmitch> we've just not really had anything formal in place, like the UVF team
[10:47] <dholbach> ajmitch: anything specific you're referring to?
[10:47] <ajmitch> dholbach: pushing stuff to dapper-updates
[10:47] <dholbach> yeah... anything specific?
[10:47] <ajmitch> gcl, as Fujitsu is asking
[10:47] <dholbach> ah ok
[10:48] <dholbach> ajmitch: it'd be nice if we'd get stuff tested
[10:48] <ajmitch> yep
[10:48] <ajmitch> that's somewhat critical
[10:48] <Fujitsu> Of course.
[10:48] <ajmitch> 07:47 < LaserJock> mdz: ^^? or do you want MOTUs to decide that?
[10:48] <ajmitch> 07:48 < mdz> LaserJock: the latter
[10:48] <ajmitch> 07:49 < mdz> though I strongly recommend using StableReleaseUpdates or something very close to it
[10:48] <ajmitch> in response to a question about the SRU policy
[10:49] <Fujitsu> It'd be nice if StableReleaseUpdates actually said it was for main/restricted only.
[10:49] <dholbach> we should decide on a workflow
[10:50] <dholbach> and add notes to wiki/SRU once we decided it
[10:50] <ajmitch> I think Laser_away is calling for a MOTU meeting sometime soon
[10:50] <Fujitsu> Anyway... gcl needs a very small (3 modifications, 5 insertions) patch backported, and maxima needs a rebuild, and (w)xmaxima's unworkiness is fixed.
[10:52] <dholbach> do -updates build against -updates?
[10:53] <ajmitch> afaik they do
[10:54] <Fujitsu> I'd presume they would.
[10:54] <ajmitch> but I don't know how many libs or similar we've had through updates to test that
[10:54] <Fujitsu> Sounds like a #-devel question.
[11:25] <ajmitch> wow
[11:25] <ajmitch> about 50 packages on the unmet deps list are gnustep related
[11:26] <azeem> call for a gnustep team :)
[11:26] <ajmitch> nah
[11:26] <ajmitch> there are UVF exceptions being looked at which will fix all these
[11:26] <ajmitch> so it's a good justification to get the UVF done
[11:28] <imbrandon> gnustep ? litestep like ?
[11:28] <ajmitch> like nextstep, or openstep :)
[11:28] <imbrandon> ahh
[11:29] <imbrandon> heh how ironic
[11:29] <ajmitch> how so?
[11:30] <imbrandon> cuz my i386 is livecd only atm heh
[11:30] <ajmitch> you're still working on that
[11:30] <imbrandon> well i quit the other day when my hdd died
[11:30] <ajmitch> you're 'braver' than I thought ;)
[11:30] <imbrandon> but i made a 386 chroot on the amd64 and decided to start over
[11:30] <imbrandon> as long as this compiles this time its the last step
[11:31] <imbrandon> and /should/ all work
[11:31] <ajmitch> heh
[11:31] <imbrandon> everything else i have done afaik
[11:31] <ajmitch> famous last words
[11:31] <imbrandon> lol yea
[11:32] <imbrandon> the last thing before my hdd crashed i got to was gcc compiled but once it got to the making of the deb it complained about striping or soemthing
[11:32] <imbrandon> and only made one of the debs, but i was tired and went to sleep and then woke to a broken puter ;(
[11:32] <imbrandon> sooo i'm back to that point now
[11:32] <ajmitch> masochist
[11:33] <imbrandon> heh
[11:35] <imbrandon> this person "Nikita Youshchenko <yoush@cs.msu.su>" dosent happen to hang on irc do they ?
[11:36] <azeem> imbrandon: https://launchpad.net/people/yoush doesn't indicate they are
[11:36] <imbrandon> hum ok thanks
[11:36] <imbrandon> guess i'll just patch it and send them a email
[11:37] <imbrandon> one of the dpkg-cross scripts needed a cupple additions and had this comment in it ....
[11:37] <imbrandon> # This list is far from being complete ...
[11:37] <imbrandon> # Please send additions to Nikita Youshchenko <yoush@cs.msu.su>
[11:37] <imbrandon> ;)
[11:37] <imbrandon> couple*
[11:39] <dholbach> what about having a MOTU meeting soon
[11:39] <dholbach> Uni/Multiverse SRU and edgy release-prep should be on the agenda
[11:39] <dholbach> ... at least ...
[11:39] <imbrandon> dholbach, i'm all for it , just name a time as far as i'm concerned
[11:41] <dholbach> monday 14 UTC?
[11:43] <imbrandon> looks ok to me , nothing else is on the schedule on the fridge for that time
[11:43] <imbrandon> but i'm just one person ;)
[11:44] <Fujitsu> I am ,yes.
[11:45] <dholbach> ^ :)
[11:45] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: midnight monday, isnt it?
[11:45] <Hobbsee> @now utc
[11:45] <Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: October 05 2006, 09:45:25
[11:45] <Hobbsee> @now sydney
[11:45] <Ubugtu> Current time in Australia/Sydney: October 05 2006, 19:45:30
[11:45] <Fujitsu> Yeah, 2400...
[11:45] <Fujitsu> Midnight Monday.
[11:45] <Hobbsee> ah, yeah.
[11:45] <Hobbsee> that's doable.  ish.
[11:46] <dholbach> cool, I thought so ;)
[11:46] <Fujitsu> Yeah, it is doable, just.
[11:46] <ajmitch> imbrandon: what you want?
[11:46] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: nasty for you, with school the next day :P
[11:46] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: will find it horrible
[11:46] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee, yeah, owwwww.
[11:46] <imbrandon> ajmitch, input from dholbach time for a MOTU meeting
[11:46] <ajmitch> dholbach: no chance I'll be there at 1400UTC
[11:46] <Fujitsu> Year 12 exams in two weeks! Yay!
[11:46] <dholbach> ajmitch: what time would you prefer?
[11:46] <ajmitch> little chance you'll find a time that suits everyone though
[11:47] <dholbach> 14:00 utc is 7:00 for the east coast of the us
[11:47] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: fun.
[11:47] <dholbach> west coast
[11:47] <ajmitch> & it's 3AM for the single kiwi MOTU
[11:47] <dholbach> maybe I miscalculated
[11:47] <dholbach> oh well
[11:47] <dholbach> pick another time ;-)
[11:47] <Fujitsu> And midnight for us three eastern Aussies. Poor ajmitch :(
[11:47] <ajmitch> you don't need me for the meeting
[11:48] <ajmitch> anytime that's convenient for me will be very inconvenient for people in the US
[11:48] <dholbach> ok, let's go with 14 then
[11:48] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: 3am?  why not 2am?
[11:48] <ajmitch> ok, I'll read the logs :)
[11:48] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: because I'm at work at 9AM
[11:49] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: i realise that.  i thought you were 2 hours out from us
[11:49] <ajmitch> 3 at the moment
[11:49] <ajmitch> daylight savings started on sunday
[11:49] <imbrandon> dholbach, want me to add it to the fridge calendar ( i'm sure you will email -motu )
[11:49] <dholbach> imbrandon: I'll mail fridge-devel also
[11:50] <imbrandon> dholbach, i can add it right now
[11:50] <ajmitch> I know that Laserjock was wanting a meeting - make sure that it's an OK time for him
[11:50] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: ahhh...
[11:51] <ajmitch> as long as the active MOTUs are there, it'll be ok :)
[11:53] <dholbach> mailed
[11:55] <ajmitch> dholbach: thanks
[11:56] <ajmitch> if I'm really brave, I might go to bed early that night & get up for the meeting
[12:09] <esputo>  hello, I would like to create a dapper server iso with updated packages, I've been reading arround but I get stuck on the creation of "Packages" files under /dists/ directory, is there any tool for that?
[12:10] <dholbach> esputo: no need to ask in several channels - I'd try #ubuntu+1 for support questions like that.
[12:11] <ajmitch> time for me to sleep
[12:11] <sivang> night ajmitch
[12:11] <imbrandon> gnight ajmitch, maybe tomarrow gcc will be done ;)
[12:12] <sivang> ajmitch: got the list , just before you drop? :-)
[12:12] <TheMuso> How long is the meeting expected to go for?
[12:12] <esputo> Ok dholback, I'll do that
[12:13] <imbrandon> TheMuso, i put it on the fridge for an hour since one wasent specified
[12:13] <TheMuso> Right.
[12:13] <dholbach> TheMuso: we try to be brief - that's what i wrote in the mail
[12:13] <TheMuso> dholbach: Yeah I saw that.
[12:13] <dholbach> super
[12:14] <Fujitsu> I will too... I hope the parents won't kill me for it :)
[12:14] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, flashlight + laptop under the covers like a kid with a book ;)
[12:15] <Fujitsu> Heheh.
[12:15] <Fujitsu> They weren't particularly happy when I got up at 0530 for the TB meeting, of course.
[12:15] <TheMuso> Fujitsu: Have you explained Linux/Ubuntu/free software to them at all?
[12:16] <Fujitsu> Oh, of course.
[12:16] <TheMuso> Why weren't they happy?
[12:16] <Fujitsu> My father introduced me to it, several years ago...
[12:16] <Fujitsu> I got up too early, apparently.
[12:16] <TheMuso> Ah right.
[12:17] <TheMuso> hehe. I have all my computer stuff in my room, which is enough to keep people out, as it can get noisy when I have everything on, and the alpha makes enough noise on its own. :)
[12:19] <ajmitch> sivang: before I sleep, I'm working on it :P
[12:22] <Fujitsu> TheMuso, ooh... An Alpha! Nice.
[12:24] <sivang> ajmitch: heh :)
[12:24] <sivang> ajmitch: you can work on it tomorrow as well
[12:25] <sivang> ajmitch: there's no rush ;-)
[12:25] <ajmitch> sivang: except release
[12:25] <ajmitch> just to keep some notes
[12:25] <ajmitch> now I really need sleep
[12:25] <Fujitsu> See ya, ajmitch.
[12:34] <TheMuso> imbrandon: Did you see the dreamhost bonus?
[12:39] <TheMuso> Fujitsu: Yeah it is nice. I use it for IRC/DNS/DHCP.
[12:39] <TheMuso> But the debian install on it is somewhat screwed atm, so it needs a re-install. :)
[12:41] <StevenK> Re-install Debian?
[12:41] <StevenK> Who does such a thing?
[12:42] <TheMuso> StevenK: When one experiments with stuff so much as it screws critical parts of the os. :p
[12:42] <TheMuso> And a majorly corrupt filesystem.
[12:42] <StevenK> Whee
[12:46] <xopher> TheMuso, how can I obtain a cloak like yours for my hostname?
[12:48] <TheMuso> xopher: Are you an Ubuntu member?
[12:49] <xopher> Well how do I register if Im not? Ive registered at launchpad and at the forums..
[12:50] <minghua> xopher: http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/newmember
[12:50] <xopher> thank you
[12:54] <imbrandon> TheMuso, yea sorry eating dinner
[12:54] <TheMuso> imbrandon: Sounds like a late dinner.
[12:54] <imbrandon> TheMuso, yea they gave me 200GB space and 4TB transfer now
[12:54] <imbrandon> hehe yea i keep weird hours ;)
[12:54] <TheMuso> I'll bet a dreamhost user or two will try and use that.
[12:54] <imbrandon> TheMuso, haha yea i was thinking of putting a rsync of the ubuntu archive
[12:55] <imbrandon> or atleaste the cdimage
[12:55] <imbrandon> thats 110GB ;)
[12:55] <imbrandon> but i run a local apt-mirror so i'll probably only mirror the cdimage and torrents
[12:56] <imbrandon> anyhow back to dinner bbiab
[12:57] <Adri2000> dholbach: ping
[12:57] <dholbach> Adri2000: pong
[12:58] <Adri2000> you assigned bug 63964 to me
[12:58] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 63964 in xmoto "UVF exception request: xmoto 0.2.2-1" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63964
[12:58] <dholbach> yeah, as motu-uvf no longer "has anything to do with it"
[12:58] <Adri2000> what do you want me to do? I can't upload :p
[12:58] <dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/FAQ explains how to get that done
[12:58] <dholbach> :-)
[01:01] <Adri2000> ok
[02:44] <cuco> hi, i am building a package for ubuntu, which needs to create some mysql tables. on debian, i used the extra file: debian.cnf. this does not work on ubuntu. any ideas whay can i do...?
[02:44] <cuco> the question is, how do i install sql tables from postinst scripts ...?
[02:45] <freeflying> cuco: debconf?
[02:45] <cuco> debconf is just the way to ask the user some questions. it does not help me in this place.
[02:45] <cuco> ..right...?
[02:45] <kristog> cuco: right! use postinst
[02:45] <cuco> yes, i am doying this on the post install...
[02:46] <cuco> but... if the user has a root password for the mysql server this will fail..
[02:46] <kristog> could you paste it somewhere
[02:46] <lionelp> cuco: it is not nice to use the debian.cnf file
[02:46] <cuco> this is why (at least on debian etch and sarge) you have an extra configuration file, which can be used to override the permissions
[02:46] <lionelp> cuco: you should ask a root password in your postinst with debconf
[02:47] <cuco> lionelp: that ugly ... :(
[02:47] <kristog> cuco: uhm ok, you have 2 solution 1) use debconf for know the pw 2) write a script and put it in /doc
[02:47] <lionelp> why ?
[02:47] <lionelp> your package is not necessary on the mysql server
[02:48] <cuco> what do you mean, not on the mysql server...?
[02:48] <cuco> just be be sure: the debian.cnf files does not work on ubunut
[02:48] <kristog> your package is useful without the mysql server?
[02:48] <cuco> no
[02:48] <lionelp> your application is not always set up on the machine that run the mysql server ?
[02:49] <cuco> the application,works best on the server which runs the mysql server
[02:49] <cuco> the application,works best on the machine running the mysql server (not native english speaker, sorry)
[02:50] <lionelp> why best ?
[02:50] <lionelp> What kind of application it is ? Most of applications that use mysql can use it through the network
[02:50] <cuco> freepbx
[02:51] <cuco> this is an asterisk configuration web interface
[02:51] <lionelp> cuco: okay, I know it
[02:52] <cuco> lionelp: the packages i wrote, work on sarge and etch. now i am trying to install them on ubuntu.
[02:52] <cuco> (mc is in universe...? wow...)
[02:52] <lionelp> In that case, I see no reason why the system where freepbx is installed should have the privilege to create a database on the server
[02:53] <lionelp> (yes mc is in universe)
[02:53] <cuco> then how will it work..? this means that the package (by default) will depend on an external mysql server
[02:53] <kristog> cuco: if you don't need the server i guess you will need the client
[02:54] <kristog> (at last)
[02:54] <lionelp> no nee for the server absolutely
[02:54] <lionelp> you only depends on php*-mysql module
[02:55] <lionelp> s/nee/need/
[02:56] <cuco> lionelp: that is a package dependency. the gui still needs to store it's data.
[02:57] <lionelp> cuco: a package dependance on mysql-server ?
[02:57] <cuco> yes, a virtual-mysql-server is supported, which means you don't have to install the sql server on trhe same machine.
[02:57] <cuco> but i want to support the trivial scenario, in which a user "apt-get install freepbx" - and evrything works.
[02:58] <lionelp> cuco: it is only for your needs or for distributing ?
[02:58] <cuco> anyway, only the grant command fails. all other commands (create, and the newinstall.sql) work.
[02:58] <cuco> lionelp: lets start with the easy scenario, me
[02:58] <lionelp> cuco: ok, you better know your needs than me ;)
[02:59] <cuco> ok, lets ask again, a more specific question:
[02:59] <lionelp> cuco: the user in debian.cnf has no right to do the grant
[02:59] <lionelp> that is absolutely right
[02:59] <cuco> ok, how do i workarround this...?
[03:00] <cuco> (asking the root password via debconf)
[03:00] <lionelp> cuco: or change the rights for the user in debian.cnf (i would not do) or ask the password via debconf
[03:01] <cuco> changing the rights of the user in debian.cnf is non standard, not a good idea. debconf seems the best way...
[03:01] <lionelp> cuco: agree
[03:02] <cuco> ok, cool. lets say i have the packages working, what should i do to get them into ubuntu...?
[03:03] <lionelp> cuco: hum... wait Edgy+1 :)
[03:03] <lionelp> we are now in Freeze due to the proximity of the release
[03:03] <cuco> ok. not a problem for me.
[03:04] <lionelp> when Edgy+1 is opened, put your package on REVU
[03:04] <lionelp> You will find some documentation on the wiki (see URL in the topic)
[03:06] <lionelp> cuco: there is an ITP on Debian, are you the one who have done it ?
[03:07] <cuco> lionelp: i don't have an official ITP, but the package is already on pkg-voip's svn.
[03:07] <cuco> lionelp: the package will not get into etch.
[03:07] <lionelp> cuco: ok
[03:07] <lionelp> cuco: if your package is uploaded in Debian, it will be automaticaly included in Ubuntu
[03:08] <cuco> lionelp: apparently upstream is going to handle the packaging as well, as it seems they do not like what happened to trixbox
[03:08] <lionelp> trixbox is the old asterisk@home right ?
[03:11] <cuco> yes
[03:12] <cuco> lionelp: sorry, konversation crashed. first time i seen it :)
[03:12] <cuco> did you get my "yes"?
[03:13] <lionelp> cuco: yes
[03:14] <cuco> ok, i will work on this probably next week
[03:20] <cuco> how do i check out if a script is runing on ubuntu or debian...?
[03:29] <kristog> cuco: why not 2 build?
[03:30] <kristog> cuco: or check sources.list
[03:30] <cuco> kristog: that is 3 different package versions, not 2.
[03:30] <cuco> kristog: sarge, etch (and sid) and then also ubuntu
[03:30] <cuco> checking sources.list is not smaty, what if people from the other distro add a secondary apt source...?
[03:31] <cuco> dpkg -l base-files| grep ubuntu ...?
[03:31] <kristog> why build a package for sarge and for etch?
[03:31] <cuco> kristog: no, the same package for both distros
[03:32] <Hobbsee> cuco: cat /etc/lsb-release
[03:32] <cuco> Hobbsee: not available on sarge, etch. (also not in centos). might be a good idea...
[03:33] <cuco> Hobbsee: but still not deterministic enough for my taste
[03:33] <StevenK> if [ -f /etc/lsb-release ] ; then ...
[03:33] <cuco> it's debian? or ubuntu...? what if debian add this file sometime...?
[03:33] <StevenK> It won't contain Ubuntu in it.
[03:34] <Hobbsee> cuco: ahh
[03:34] <cuco> if grep ubuntu /etc/lsb-release; then echo "ubuntu"; else echo "debian"; di
[03:34] <StevenK> grep -q
[03:34] <cuco> of course.
[03:34] <StevenK> Ubuntu, too
[03:35] <cuco> says debian here, works as expected.
[03:35] <cuco> if grep -q -i ubuntu /etc/lsb-release; then echo "ubuntu"; else echo "debian"; di
[03:35] <StevenK> s/di/fi/
[03:35] <cuco> if grep -q -i ubuntu /etc/lsb-release 2> /dev/null; then echo "ubuntu"; else echo "debian"; fi
[03:35] <StevenK> steven@liquified:~% if grep -q -i ubuntu /etc/lsb-release; then echo "ubuntu"; else echo "debian"; fi
[03:35] <StevenK> ubuntu
[03:36] <cuco> ok, this does seem to work, but dam ugly.
[03:36] <StevenK> Why do are you trying to determine it, anyway?
[03:36] <StevenK> s/do //
[03:38] <cuco> StevenK: for the freepbx package. on ubuntu it should ask for a mysql root password, but on debian it's not needed.
[03:39] <StevenK> I can't think of why.
[03:39] <cuco> sorry, i am not following you
[03:40] <StevenK> Why do you need to prompt on Ubuntu, and not Debian?
[03:40] <realist> Isn't the mysql root passwd usually left blank?
[03:40] <cuco> because on ubuntu i cannot grant permission on a mysql database without any passowrd
[03:40] <cuco> realist: that's lame no...?
[03:41] <realist> Otherwise most packages will ask you for it
[03:41] <StevenK> cuco: You shouldn't be able to do that on Debian either.
[03:41] <cuco> realist: look half an hour ago, me and lionelp were talking about it
[03:41] <realist> I always set one, doesn't mean you *have* to
[03:41] <thom> cuco: um, i'd be shocked if there was any difference between ubuntu and debian
[03:41] <cuco> StevenK: works on sarge and etch
[03:41] <cuco> thom: cool.
[03:43] <Tonio_> hi
[03:43] <Tonio_> StevenK: may I take 3 minutes of your time ?
[03:44] <StevenK> Um.
[03:44] <StevenK> Probably
[03:44] <Tonio_> StevenK: I'm intended to package wengophoneNG since version 2.0 is out since yesterday
[03:44] <Tonio_> Hobbsee told me you already played with it
[03:44] <StevenK> Tonio_: A new package, or a new version?
[03:45] <Tonio_> StevenK: well as 2.0 is very different from classic, I would probably suggest a new package
[03:45] <StevenK> Tonio_: Then I have no problems.
[03:45] <StevenK> Tonio_: Since it doesn't affect the work I just did.
[03:46] <Tonio_> StevenK: what are you working on ? I don't wanna duplicate your stuff
[03:46] <StevenK> Tonio_: 0.99+svn4511-4ubuntu3 FTBFS, I was fixing it
[03:46] <Tonio_> StevenK: ah okay
[03:47] <Tonio_> StevenK: thanks for the info
[03:48] <StevenK> Tonio_: I can send you my debian/rules patch - the same problems may bite you.
[03:49] <Tonio_> StevenK: yes, definitly
[03:49] <Tonio_> StevenK: tonio@ubuntu.com
[03:50] <StevenK> Tonio_: Aye, I'll just finish checking that my build is sane.
[03:51] <Tonio_> StevenK: okay
[03:54] <StevenK> Tonio_: Sent
[03:54] <Tonio_> StevenK: perfect, thanks a lot
[03:54] <StevenK> No problems
[04:12] <lophyte> morning everyone
[04:15] <AnAnt> anyone here ?
[04:15] <AnAnt> I have a question
[04:15] <azeem> just ask
[04:16] <AnAnt> I was packaging tss (terminal screen saver)
[04:16] <AnAnt> the problem is that it includes artwork that the author of doesn't know their license
[04:16] <AnAnt> his screen saver is GPL since he did it
[04:16] <AnAnt> but the artwork is the problem
[04:17] <AnAnt> what should I do about that ?
[04:17] <AnAnt> shall I remove them from orig tarball or what ?
[04:17] <AnAnt> or ask him to do so ?
[04:17] <AnAnt> for example ask him to provide a tarball for tss & tarball for the Ascii art (ie the artwork)
[04:19] <AnAnt> azeem: ?
[04:19] <azeem> azeem: I just suggested you should just ask your question, I didn't say I could answer it or would even have the time to look at it :)
[04:19] <azeem> eh, s/azeem/AnAnt/
[04:19] <AnAnt> k
[04:20] <azeem> I don't know how Ubuntu handles artwork licenses, really
[04:20] <azeem> sorry
[04:20] <thom> i'd remove them from the tarball and recommend that he do the same
[04:20] <thom> azeem: same as debian in general, but without the "help" of debian-legal
[04:21] <azeem> thihi
[04:21] <azeem> thom: before or after the current GR? ;)
[04:21] <thom> i am pretending that GR doesn't exist in the hopes it'll go away
[04:22] <thom> i find debian works much better when i take the "fingers in ears and whistle" approach
[04:22] <azeem> totally
[04:22] <azeem> just watch out you stay next to Sledge, or you'll get lost like keybuk
[04:25] <AnAnt> k , thanks
[04:25] <thom> heh
[04:25] <tepsipakki> could someone sync libpam-krb5 from debian? edgy has the same version as dapper
[04:26] <tepsipakki> arf
[04:26] <tepsipakki> freeze
[04:30] <AnAnt_> is the MOTU meeting about Edgy or Edgy+1 ?
[04:31] <Hobbsee> both, probably
[04:32] <AnAnt_> will the result of that meeting be published on web ?
[04:32] <AnAnt_> at 14:00 GMT I will be in the bus going home !
[04:33] <Hobbsee> it'll likely go for a while
[04:33] <Hobbsee> of course it will
[04:34] <AnAnt_> k
[04:34] <AnAnt_> thanks
[04:59] <tepsipakki> ok, I filed #64189 against libpam-krb5. hopefully it makes it in, works fine also with dapper ;)
[05:46] <lophyte> hey superm1
[05:46] <superm1> hey
[05:46] <lophyte> how's it going?
[05:46] <superm1> well i've been working at this bug with myth
[05:46] <superm1>  bug 63485
[05:46] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 63485 in rhythmbox "Rhythmbox's cover art plugin should support cover.jpg files like other GNOME music players" [Unknown,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63485
[05:46] <superm1>  bug 63486
[05:46] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 63486 in mythplugins "mythphone causes mythfrontend seg fault on amd64" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63486
[05:46] <lophyte> ah
[05:47] <lophyte> I've never used myth before
[05:47] <superm1> while i was working at it, I've been struggling to fix the packaging to generate mythtv-debug again
[05:47] <superm1> since when we merged to 0.20, those pieces were lost
[05:48] <superm1> but i'm not sure that dh_strip will properly do it anymore since myth actually has a compile target for debug
[05:49] <superm1> but i've been away from the web, so i've been stuck doing this offline for now
[05:49] <superm1> hows -motu been treating you the last two days?
[05:50] <lophyte> I've been wanting to work on some unmet deps.. ajmitch rebuilt all the packages and I figured he'd post up a list of packages that are really broken and not just in need of rebuilding
[05:50] <superm1> did he ever post that list?
[05:51] <lophyte> he said he hasn't gone through it yet
[05:51] <superm1> well it was a fairly large list, is he still building?
[05:51] <lophyte> nope.. only took him a couple of hours apparentl
[05:51] <superm1> oh hm
[05:52] <sistpoty> hi folks
[05:52] <superm1> hi sistpoty
[05:52] <lophyte> other than unmet deps, though, I'm not quite sure what to do
[05:52] <lophyte> hey sistpoty
[05:52] <sistpoty> hi superm1, lophyte
[05:54] <superm1> sistpoty, perhaps you could help with a question for me.  The old myth packaging produced a mythtv-debug package by using dh_strip on all the libraries.  I'm reluctant to bring this up to the newer packaging because the newer packaging has a --compile-type=debug option which I'm thinking does more then just leave debugging symbols.  What is the appropriate thing to do in this case?
[05:56] <sistpoty> superm1: the -dbg package only contains (and should contain) the debug symbols, however you can drop this, since lp should produce debug symbols itself now
[05:56] <superm1> oh it does?  how can I obtain the symbols from lp then?
[05:57] <sistpoty> superm1: haven't tried myself yet... there should be some info in the ubuntu-devel ml (or ubuntu-devel-announce ml), from Martin Pitt (pitti)
[05:57] <superm1> Okay. i'll take a look around
[05:57] <superm1> how do we phase out the current mythtv-debug package then?
[05:58] <superm1> its a version behidn the version of the rest of the suite and un-necessary at this point
[05:59] <sistpoty> superm1: just drop it in debian/control and remove the --dbg from dh_strip (or s.th. like that)... that should imo do the trick
[06:00] <superm1> well its not currently listed in debian/control, but it is still available through apt, just the old version shows up
[06:01] <sistpoty> superm1: ah, ok. then you should file a bug and subscribe ubuntu-archive, to remove that very binary package
[06:02] <superm1> Ok then
[06:03] <sistpoty> hey dholbach: great to have a motu-meeting again :)
[06:03] <sistpoty> not quite sure, if I'll make it though... final exam on next wednesday :/ (and I really should be learning right now *g*)
[06:04] <dholbach> hey sistpoty
[06:04] <dholbach> sistpoty: great to have you here :-)
[06:05] <sistpoty> :)
[06:09] <LaserJock> oh nice
[06:09] <LaserJock> 7am for me :-)
[06:10] <LaserJock> sistpoty and dholbach: can I get you guys to look over https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JordanMantha/MotuManagement
[06:10] <sistpoty> hey LaserJock
[06:11] <sistpoty> LaserJock: give me a few minutes ;)
[06:11] <superm1> sistpoty, I found the email Martin mentioned if you were curious to read thru it again http://archives.free.net.ph/message/20060705.101916.8b92c5c8.en.html
[06:11] <sistpoty> :)
[06:12] <dholbach> LaserJock: who and what is the document intended for?
[06:14] <dholbach> i'm out for a quick walk now - brb
[06:18] <superm1> after reading about this automatic debug symbol building, I gotta say it looks very promissing, especially if LP already knows about it
[06:21] <sistpoty> LaserJock: just read through this... nice work!
[06:22] <sistpoty> LaserJock: I like the idea of a motu manager
[06:22] <LaserJock> well, right now I'm looking a just identifying problems we are facing
[06:23] <LaserJock> and potential solutions
[06:23] <LaserJock> probably a MOTU Manager can alleviate a lot of the problems simply by  doing a bit of leg work to generate task lists
[06:23] <LaserJock> and make sure everybody is aware of policies and deadlines
[06:24] <sistpoty> LaserJock: not just that... sometimes I feel that we motu's are a kind of headless crowd :)
[06:24] <LaserJock> sistpoty: do you have anything to add to the list?
[06:24] <LaserJock> yes
[06:25] <LaserJock> like a bunch of ants busily running around ;-)
[06:25] <sistpoty> LaserJock: not currently... but I'll think about it ;)
[06:25] <sistpoty> yes
[06:25] <LaserJock> the thing I think would be important though
[06:26] <LaserJock> is to seperate the MOTU Manager from the higher level technical stuff (UVFe team, etc.)
[06:26] <LaserJock> what tends to happen is really good MOTUs get more and more put on them
[06:26] <LaserJock> and then they have to choose between the technical work and the community work
[06:27] <sistpoty> LaserJock: that
[06:27] <sistpoty> +'s true
[06:27] <LaserJock> so more of a CC and TB style
[06:27] <superm1> having a MOTU Manager would be quite a time commitment for someone to take up
[06:28] <LaserJock> yes, it would
[06:28] <LaserJock> although it perhaps wouldn't be too bad
[06:28] <superm1> but in their definition, it better be posted what they are for and arent for to guarantee that things stay working smoothly
[06:29] <superm1> like you said choosing between community and technical work is probably what gives the most stress
[06:30] <superm1> would MOTU hopefuls be joining these focused teams, or just hovering where needed?
[06:31] <LaserJock> well, the Teams already exist
[06:31] <LaserJock> and are certainly open to Hopefuls
[06:31] <LaserJock> the proposal was to use the more
[06:31] <superm1> I hadn't even realized there was any teams other then the MOTU-Media team and the uvfe team
[06:31] <LaserJock> heh
[06:32] <LaserJock> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Teams
[06:32] <superm1> yea good to see :)
[06:34] <superm1> with only having 55 MOTUs though, will adding more teams help that much?
[06:36] <LaserJock> no, the proposal is not to add more teams
[06:36] <LaserJock> but to *use* teams
[06:36] <superm1> ah
[06:42] <LaserJock> I wonder if dholbach is back yet
[06:44] <LaserJock> Mr. Barry!
[06:45] <bddebian> Heya gang
[06:45] <bddebian> Hi LaserJock
[06:46] <sistpoty> hey bddebian
[06:46] <bddebian> Heya sistpoty
[06:50] <LaserJock> tuxmaniac: haha, that's got to be one of my favorite logout messages
[06:50] <LaserJock> "A patch in time saves kill -9"
[06:50] <tuxmaniac> LaserJock> heh
[06:51] <tuxmaniac> LaserJock> Dont you feel the bug list for Ubuntu-Science packages on Edgy has been very less?? :D
[06:51] <bddebian> I like Casanova's too
[06:52] <tuxmaniac> LaserJock> Infact most of them that are ingering around are dapper
[06:54] <dholbach> LaserJock: he is
[06:58] <LaserJock> ah
[06:59] <LaserJock> dholbach: this wiki page is something we thought of the other day. I'm listing MOTU problems and potential solutions
[06:59] <LaserJock> dholbach: I'd like to present this at a MOTU Meeting and perhaps get some input from Jono
[07:00] <dholbach> Ok nice
[07:00] <dholbach> it's all perfectly valid
[07:00] <LaserJock> dholbach: my first goal was to simply list problems in as much detail
[07:01] <LaserJock> then get a set of solutions together
[07:01] <LaserJock> and prioritize
[07:01] <dholbach> Ok nice
[07:01] <dholbach> :)
[07:01] <LaserJock> so at the moment I'm wanting to check with other MOTUs to see if they want to add/substract or flame me ;-)
[07:01] <dholbach> no, not flame
[07:02] <dholbach> i think it might be good to have a documentation like that for a meeting after edgy release
[07:02] <LaserJock> yes
[07:02] <LaserJock> I'd like to work on it more and not distract too much from the issue at hand (getting Edgy out the door)
[07:04] <LaserJock> tuxmaniac: yes, the number of bugs is going down a bit. and many that are left are upstream bug watches
[07:04] <tuxmaniac> :)
[07:05] <LaserJock> haha, i'm a raging Ubuntu-holic MOTU, I'm wearing my flame-retardent underweard
[07:05] <bddebian> heh
[07:08] <Bazzi> ah crap
[07:09] <Bazzi> there's a package I'd like to see in edgy but I haven't checked debian unstable in time :(
[07:16] <Toadstool> hey everybody
[07:16] <Bazzi> hi Toadstool :)
[07:16] <Toadstool> great! a meeting!
[07:17] <Toadstool> hi Bazzi
[07:20] <Toadstool> uhuh, meeting at 07:00am...
[07:21] <bddebian> Heya Toadstool
[07:22] <sistpoty> ok, gotta continue learning... cya
[07:24] <Toadstool> hey bddebian
[07:24] <LaserJock> Toadstool: yep, you're in my TZ now ;-)
[07:24] <bddebian> Who the hell is up at 7:00am?
[07:24] <bddebian> Anyone know how I disregard char input when doing something like:  scanf ("%d", &foo); ?
[07:30] <LaserJock> bddebian: apparently Toadstool and I will be up at 7:00am ;-)
[07:30] <Toadstool> bddebian: scanf("%s", ...); strtol(...); ? :p
[07:30] <Toadstool> LaserJock: yep I'll be up
[07:32] <bddebian> pshaw :-)
[07:43] <thom> ok, anychance we could have an installable valgrind-callgrind on edgy?
[07:51] <geser> thom: valgrind 1:3.2.0-2ubuntu1 provides valgrind-callgrind
[07:51] <geser> the seperate package isn't needed anymore
[07:54] <thom> ah
[07:55] <thom> then the others should be removed right?
[07:57] <lophyte> hi geser
[07:57] <geser> hi lophyte
[08:03] <jdong> any Media team folks in here?
[08:04] <jdong> since Dapper's LTS, I'd like to discuss the possibility of an updated multimedia stack in dapper-backports
[08:27] <phanatic> evening
[08:29] <LaserJock> hi phanatic
[08:29] <phanatic> hey LaserJock
[08:33] <superm1> hey guys, how would I add an app into an edgy pbuilder that I dont want the package normally depending on?
[08:33] <superm1> just for some local testing
[08:33] <LaserJock> hmm, you want it to depend on it now though?
[08:34] <superm1> well its pkg-create-dbgsym
[08:34] <superm1> it creates debug symbols
[08:34] <superm1> it will eventually be active in LP, but packages dont need to depend on it
[08:34] <superm1> it diverts dh_strip to do so
[08:34] <LaserJock> ok, so you just want it installed in your pbuilder?
[08:34] <superm1> right
[08:35] <LaserJock> well, you could do a pbuilder login
[08:35] <superm1> so i can change the base.tgz from that login then huh?
[08:35] <LaserJock> cp the pkg-create-dbgsym .deb into the chroot and the source package you want to build
[08:36] <LaserJock> then build it inside the chroot
[08:36] <superm1> oh interesting
[08:37] <superm1> didn't realize you could actually chroot into a pbuilder
[08:39] <superm1> is there a way to make that more permanent, so that if I wouldn't have to chroot to do my builds, but could just queue them up with pbuilder build and still have pkg-create-dbgsym installed in the pbuilder?
[08:40] <LaserJock> you could cp the pbuilder base.tgz
[08:40] <LaserJock> then do a login
[08:41] <LaserJock> hang on a sec
[08:41] <jdong> superm1: make a backup of the base.tgz, then do pbuilder login --save-after-login
[08:42] <jdong> superm1: install the package, exit, and now base.tgz will be recreated with the changes you made
[08:42] <superm1> changes will only be lost then after pbuilder update right?
[08:42] <jdong> superm1: no, changes will not be lost until you restore your backed up base.tgz!
[08:42] <jdong> it permanently taints your pbuilder
[08:42] <superm1> oh
[08:42] <superm1> hence why to back it up :)
[08:42] <jdong> :)
[08:44] <LaserJock> yeah, that's what I was going to say
[08:44] <LaserJock> ;-)
[08:44] <superm1> hehe
[08:44] <LaserJock> I was just reading man pbuilder
[08:44] <LaserJock> to make sure I had it right
[08:44] <LaserJock> and then somebody called the lab
[08:45] <superm1> so when pkg-create-dbgsym goes active on LP, will it become part of the base package then possibly?
[08:45] <LaserJock> --extrapackages
[08:45] <LaserJock> might be cool too
[08:46] <superm1> oh --extrapackages would probably be the good way to do it, especially if i can just throw it in a pbuilderrc
[08:46] <jdong> hmm, yeah, if it's in apt already, extrapackages mgiht be a better plan
[08:46] <jdong> I thought it was a self-rolled deb
[08:46] <LaserJock> yes
[08:46] <superm1> yea pitti pushed to get this finished up by edgy time
[08:47] <superm1> supposed to make debugging a lot easier
[08:47] <LaserJock> for self-rolled --save-after-login seems better
[09:23] <dholbach> have a nice evening! see you tomorrow!
[09:23] <tseng> bye dholbach
[09:23] <dholbach> bye tseng
[09:23] <tseng> hugs
[09:23] <bddebian> Hey tseng, you never hug me?? :'-(
[09:23] <bddebian> gnight dholbach
[09:23] <tseng> bddebian: you're not as pretty
[09:23] <bddebian> heh
[09:23] <tseng> i hug dholbach is real life
[09:57] <jdong|laptop> are there irc logs for this channel?
[09:58] <ajmitch> yes, somewhere
[09:59] <jdong|laptop> heh
[09:59] <jdong|laptop> that's roughly what I told the forum poster about where his monodevelop packages are :D
[09:59] <zul> people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs
[10:36] <LaserJock> grrrrrr
[10:36] <ajmitch> LaserJock?
[10:36] <LaserJock> bug 64242
[10:36] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 64242 in maxima "ship working maxima for ppc" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/64242
[10:36] <ajmitch> btw are you able to make it to the MOTU meeting?
[10:36] <LaserJock> I suppose
[10:36] <LaserJock> it's 7am for me
[10:36] <ajmitch> LaserJock: don't you love maxima bugs?
[10:36] <LaserJock> but I can manage
[10:37] <ajmitch> ah, I thought it might be 8am
[10:37] <ajmitch> it'll be 3am for me
[10:37] <LaserJock> well, that's not just a maxima bug
[10:37] <ajmitch> that's a truly offensive bug report
[10:37] <LaserJock> it's a bug to report that bugs aren't being fixed and Ubuntu is the suxor
[10:38] <LaserJock> I'll handle it
[10:38] <ajmitch> good :)
[10:38] <ajmitch> you don't want me to..
[10:43] <LaserJock> I know
[10:43] <LaserJock> that's why I'm doing it
[10:45] <jdong> hehe
[10:45] <jdong> it was... uhh... this morning.... :)
[10:48] <geser> could a motu please ACK the sync request in bug 64036, bug 64035 and bug 63839?
[10:48] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 64036 in gnustep-gui "[UVF Exception]  Sync gnustep-gui 0.11.0-2 from Debian unstable" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/64036
[10:48] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 64035 in gnustep-base "[UVF Exception]  Sync gnustep-base 1.13.0-3 from Debian unstable" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/64035
[10:48] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 63839 in gnustep-make "[UVF Exception]  Sync to gnustep-make 1.13.0-1 from Debian unstable" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63839
[10:53] <LaserJock> ok
[10:53] <LaserJock> I rejected it with a pleasant little note
[10:55] <LaserJock> that's really irritating
[10:55] <LaserJock> those maxima bugs have plauged me since right before dapper was released
[10:56] <LaserJock> and then they say "What do you ignore us, you suck", it really motivates me to fix it that's for sure ;-)
[10:57] <bddebian> heh
[10:58] <bddebian> geser: Go man, go.. I was wondering why gnustep* was all jacked up in Edgy
[10:59] <ajmitch> LaserJock: just say 'you want it, you fix it'
[10:59] <ajmitch> ah, I see you basically did :)
[10:59] <ajmitch> good response
[11:00] <LaserJock> oh man
[11:00] <LaserJock> I just found directions to checkinstall maxima/wxmaxima on the wiki
[11:00] <Toadstool> well done LaserJock
[11:00] <LaserJock> uggg
[11:01] <geser> ajmitch: do I need an ACK from a MOTU if I have a confirmed uvf exception?
[11:01] <geser> for a sync request
[11:01] <jdong> LaserJock: that is what happens when ubuntu packages don't work, or ubuntu doesn't provide up to date packages :)
[11:02] <Toadstool> LaserJock: you should add your comment to the Bug/Responses wiki page :)
[11:04] <LaserJock> hah
[11:04] <LaserJock> jdong: you? a rant? I can't imagine ;-)
[11:04] <ajmitch> geser: I don't know, depends on what the archive admins say
[11:05] <LaserJock> well, a UVFe team ack I would assume would count as a MOTU ack
[11:05] <ajmitch> jdong: almost as great as those *wonderfully* tested backports :)
[11:06] <bddebian> Frick, I hate not being able to do any Ubuntu work.. :'-(
[11:07] <LaserJock> oh whatever
[11:07] <LaserJock> take a break then
[11:07] <LaserJock> write the packaging guide for me
[11:07] <LaserJock> add to the MotuManagement wiki I started
[11:07] <ajmitch> bddebian: triage bugs
[11:08] <LaserJock> we still have unmet deps I think
[11:08] <ajmitch> 'still'
[11:08] <bddebian> I mean RL work getting in the way :-(
[11:08] <ajmitch> we have about 180
[11:08] <superm1_away> ajmitch, did you ever get that list put together
[11:08] <superm1> hehe
[11:08] <LaserJock> bddebian: bah, I know how that dude
[11:08] <superm1> sorry havent seen you around
[11:08] <LaserJock> bddebian: don't worry, just do what you can
[11:09] <theCore> does someone is working one bug 46428, if not I would like to try to fix it
[11:09] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46428 in libming "python-ming is misnamed and basically empty" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46428
[11:09] <theCore> on*
[11:11] <LaserJock> theCore: go for it
[11:12] <theCore> ok :)
[11:34] <jdong> ajmitch: oh come on, I screwed up one.... :)
[11:35] <jdong> and I learned to not call my edgy chroots dapper ones
[11:35] <LaserJock> haha
[11:35] <LaserJock> poor jdong
[11:35] <jdong> and speaking of drive-by malone prodding, what about my wine and x264 UVFe's? :D
[11:37] <LaserJock> well, it's not like you broke X or anything ;-)
[11:37] <jdong> LaserJock: hehe... I was afraid to say that, else I'd get the pitchfork mob after me :D
[11:37] <ajmitch> jdong: just one?
[11:38] <ajmitch> jdong: what happens when you backport stuff to dapper, but not subsequent bugfixes to the package? :)
[11:39] <jdong> ajmitch: urgh, launchpad really needs a better way to track that
[11:39] <jdong> ajmitch: any such outstanding bugs I should direct my attention to?
[11:39] <ajmitch> yes
[11:39] <ajmitch> bug 61783
[11:39] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 61783 in phpgroupware "package should depend on php5-imap | php4-imap" [Undecided,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61783
[11:40] <ajmitch> jdong: about your uvf request, probably because you subscribed motu-uvf :)
[11:40] <ajmitch> x264 is approved if you looked
[11:41] <jdong> ajmitch: bah... mixed up backports and motu conventions....
[11:50] <theCore> is it possible to sync packages from Debian past the freeze?
[11:50] <ajmitch> theCore: new packages?
[11:50] <theCore> no
[11:51] <ajmitch> anything new or that has a new upstream revision needs the UVF team's approval
[11:51] <ajmitch> if it's just a new debian revision, go ahead
[11:51] <jdong> ajmitch: wrt x264, who should I bug to do the actual sync and avidemux patch?
[11:52] <theCore> the debian version is newer than the one in Ubuntu
[11:52] <ajmitch> preferably one of the motu media people
[11:52] <superm1> does a new debian revision need a UVFe then, or just a debdiff?
[11:52] <ajmitch> theCore: that's expected if it's a sync
[11:52] <ajmitch> superm1: I just said, you don't need UVF exception for debian revisions, just upstream versionss
[11:52] <superm1> oh sorry i misread
[11:52] <superm1> thats good to know
[11:53] <theCore> ajmitch, so, how I would process to sync the package?
[11:53] <ajmitch> theCore: file a bug, subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors
[11:53] <ajmitch> process for filing a sync is on the DeveloperResources wiki page
[11:53] <theCore> the bug is already filled
[11:53] <LaserJock> ajmitch: don't do it
[11:54] <ajmitch> LaserJock: aw why not?
[11:54] <ajmitch> on the forums, noone knows who I am :)
[11:55] <theCore> ajmitch, "If we're in UpstreamVersionFreeze, syncs of a newer upstream version require explicit UVF exception approval."
[11:55] <theCore> -- from the Wiki
[11:55] <ajmitch> theCore: exactly as I said
[11:55] <theCore> ok, then it's me that misunderstood
[11:56] <theCore> python-ming hadn't been updated since 2005
[11:56] <theCore> it's a bit old ...
[11:57] <ajmitch> a version is x.y.z-a
[11:57] <ajmitch> x.y.z is upstream version
[11:57] <ajmitch> a is the debian revision
[11:58] <ajmitch>    libming | 0.3beta1+cvs20051127-1 | http://apt-proxy edgy/universe Sources
[11:58] <ajmitch>       ming |  1:0.3.0-7 | http://apt-proxy sid/main Sources
[11:58] <ajmitch> it appears to be a new upstream version
[11:58] <ajmitch> oops, messed up the changelog entry slightly for xen-3.0
[11:58] <ajmitch> 1 missing )
[12:09] <theCore> ajmitch, so, if want to fix the bug I need to patch Ubuntu?
[12:09] <theCore> Ubuntu's version*