[03:53] <cpk2> hi, I am curious if you guys do billboard ads?
[03:54] <jenda> cpk2: Probably out of our scope.
[03:54] <jenda> cpk2: but who knows :)
[03:55] <jenda> I started out with stickers, now I'm doing posters...
[03:55] <cpk2> hrmm, just wondering because I saw an ubuntu billboard ad the other day and wondering how it happened
[03:55] <jenda> hehe :)
[03:55] <jenda> It's a big secret, they didn't tell us much about it.
[03:55] <jenda> You live in California, right?
[03:55] <cpk2> yeah, it was on the way into san francisco
[03:55] <jenda> yep
[03:56] <cpk2> just wondering how the ubuntu team managed to get the resources for it =P
[03:56] <jenda> It's Canonical's work, AFAIK.
[03:56] <popey> canonical has a benevolent dictator at the helm :)
[03:56] <cpk2> ooohh
[03:56] <cpk2> yeah i cant imagine billboard space on the main freeway into san francisco being cheap =)
[03:58] <cpk2> does canonical rely solely on donations?
[03:58] <popey> canonical does, yes, from one person
[03:59] <popey> but ubuntu has quite a community behind it
[03:59] <popey> people who do things for the good of ubuntu off their own back
[04:01] <cpk2> oh, some more reading at canonical reveals that they sell support
[04:01] <jenda> well... canonical has profits too :)
[04:01] <jenda> exactly
[04:01] <jenda> canonical is a commercial company like any other...
[04:01] <jenda> ...except it pours insane cash into Ubuntu.
[04:01] <jenda> 
[04:01] <popey> :)
[04:01] <popey> oo unicode smiley
[04:02] <popey> 
[04:02] <jenda> 
[04:02] <popey> \o/
[04:02] <popey> so where can i get these posters then ? :)
[04:02] <cpk2> hehe
[04:03] <jenda> hehe... from me, of course.
[04:03] <popey> what do they look like and how do I get them?
[04:03] <cpk2> why doesnt ubuntu have an "ubuntu gear" webpage? =)
[04:03] <jenda> They will look like this: http://doc.ubuntu.com/~marketing/DIY%20Material/Batch%201,%20Posters/HanZo/poster-v01.jpg
[04:03] <jenda> (approx)
[04:03] <popey> cpk2: they do - cafepress
[04:03] <jenda> cpk2: I'm working on one :)
[04:03] <jenda> rigth
[04:04] <popey> nice, like it
[04:04] <cpk2> oh cool
[04:04] <jenda> different - I'm working on a website with community supplied marketing material.
[04:04] <jenda> and marketing howto's
[04:05] <cpk2> jenda: so a webpage that is kinda like a howto spread the ubuntu word? and some tools to help people with that I guess?
[04:05] <jenda> In any case, just drop an email to jenda at ubuntu dot com if you want a poster. They should be ready in about two weeks, and a good rule of thumb on the price is between $1 and 1 per poster + 2/$3 shipping.
[04:05] <jenda> cpk2: yep
[04:05] <jenda> the posters will be A3
[04:08] <jenda> ok, guys... it's 4 AM here, so I think it's a suitable time for bed :)
[04:08] <popey> :)
[04:08] <jenda> Good night.
[04:08] <popey> nn
[04:08] <cpk2> night, reading your wiki atm =)
[04:13] <jenda> (It's probably very outdated... but it reminds me to check it from time to time... :) )
[04:14] <cpk2> some cool ideas, I had no idea ubuntu was trying to be such a force
[04:15] <jenda> 
[04:15] <popey> "trying" :D
[04:16] <cpk2> well I feel like it already is as easy to install as windows, which helps, its just after you install it getting all those windows things you did before to work  (media being the biggest problem)
[04:16] <cpk2> i think thats probably one of the biggest marketing problems =\
[04:17] <unstable> cpk2: You can thank american patent law for those problems. imho
[04:17] <unstable> And the lame trend of non-free proprietary standards, ie wmv/ram/mov.
[04:18] <cpk2> yes, but once people are used to using those standards they dont want to have to switch to ogg and stuff when they already have stuff in non-free format
[04:18] <popey> and drivers - nvidia/wireless
[04:18] <unstable> I think once open document format starts to gain momentum, people will realize the benefits of open standards. and things might change
[04:18] <unstable> Look how great html can be as an open standard.
[04:18] <jenda> Just one sencence before I leave... :) If you consider the huge amount of effort and manpower that has to be mustered to create something as complex as an OS at Ubuntu's quality level, you must reach the conclusion that the people have strong motivation... and when you assume that there must be a certain number of people who have the same motivation, but not the capabilities to actually improve the SW itself, you inevitably have a huge amount
[04:18] <jenda>  of non-tech workforce, and thus Ubuntu becomes a 'force'.
[04:18] <cpk2> yeah, open office is really great
[04:18] <jenda> I'm one of those people :) I find other ways to support the cause.
[04:19] <popey> no cpk2 not open office, open document formats..
[04:19] <popey> not the same
[04:19] <jenda> And as for the media stuff, cpk2, please check easyubuntu.freecontrib.org
[04:19] <unstable> ogg(theora+vorbis) is awesome
[04:19] <jenda> 
[04:19] <popey> heh
[04:19] <unstable> A lot of video game manufacturers(most of them) use this video for playing videos in their games.
[04:20] <unstable> Since it's an open standard/patent free
[04:20] <popey> o/
[04:20] <unstable> But real player / windows media player / quicktime all want to push their proprietary non-free standards and usually don't support ogg(theora+vorbis) by default.
[04:21] <cpk2> popey: I see, but wow odf is really new
[04:21] <unstable> things will change, hopefully people will realize their data is in non-free proprietary formats and will want them to be in free(libre) open formats. for better interoperability
[04:21] <popey> yeah, we have had some experience of making videos in our Linux User Group, making ones that play on everything is impossible
[04:21] <popey> you have to have multiple formats
[04:21] <popey> one for windows, one for everyone else
[04:21] <unstable> popey: Or just do what my lug does, only release ogg(theora+vorbis)
[04:21] <unstable> And link to codecs for win32 and mac.
[04:21] <popey> yeah, but lots of potential lug members are on windows
[04:22] <popey> and using desktops they don't control
[04:22] <popey> like in a corporate environment
[04:22] <unstable> popey: so, they can watch ogg(theora+vorbis) on windows.
[04:22] <unstable> popey: So portable apps vlc
[04:22] <popey> not if they don't control the desktop
[04:22] <unstable> They don't need to install it, just run it.
[04:22] <popey> some people just flat can't do that
[04:22] <popey> we want to be as accessible as possible
[04:23] <popey> I don't want to cut out people because we're too bloody-minded to make videos available for them
[04:23] <unstable> eh, I like pushing open standardized formats.
[04:23] <popey> we had very lengthy heated discussions about this
[04:23] <popey> yeah, and we do
[04:23] <unstable> I don't want to release non-free formats and encourage them.
[04:23] <popey> we do stuff in ogg
[04:23] <popey> we aren't encouraging them
[04:23] <popey> we are making it accessible
[04:23] <popey> anyway, that's what we do
[04:23] <unstable> People will just pick what is easy.
[04:23] <popey> yea
[04:24] <popey> and then they get to watch our video
[04:24] <unstable> which is probably the non-free format for the windows users
[04:24] <popey> that's the key point
[04:24] <popey> that's fine
[04:24] <popey> I just flat don't care
[04:24] <popey> I want them to watch the video
[04:24] <Plug> flv is interesting
[04:24] <Plug> it's 'winning'
[04:24] <Plug> cos people don't want to care about codecs, players, etc
[04:24] <popey> yeah, we upload to google video too :)
[04:24] <unstable> yea, looks like flv will be big
[04:24] <unstable> I hope gnash does a good job reverse engineering flv
[04:25] <popey> or *HAH!* adobe opens up flash

[04:25] <unstable> hehe
[04:25] <unstable> They opened PDF
[04:26] <unstable> It's got some patents, but it's royalty free(gratis) and they call it an open standard.
[04:26] <unstable> hence xpdf/gpdf/kpdf using it.
[04:27] <unstable> But big media regimes have a lot of money. So I doubt Adobe will open flash considering it's purpose.
[04:29] <unstable> You can upload ogg(theora+vorbis) to Google video?
[04:29] <Flannel> if <canvas> or MS's... um, whatever it's called, gain much ground, I imagine adobe will open flash.  They'd rather keep a format monopoly
[04:29] <unstable> XPS
[04:29] <unstable> yea, that sucks
[04:29] <unstable> damn Microsoft is going to go and kill pdf so their proprietary XPS can win
[04:29] <Plug> I don't think PDF was ever closed?
[04:29] <Plug> Who invented PostScript?
[04:29] <unstable> yea, it was
[04:32] <unstable> Xeros Plug
[04:32] <unstable> Xerox*
[04:32] <unstable> Adobe calls "pdf" and open standard. But there are patents.
[04:32] <unstable> So they can sue ANYONE who uses pdf and didn't pay them/contract with them.
[04:33] <unstable> Which includes xpdf/gpdf/kpdf users. NOT just the developers. But users of patent infringment are also at risk.
[04:33] <unstable> At least those who fall under the silly silly american patent law system.
[04:33] <unstable> Europe is fine. since their courts don't enforce software idea patents
[04:33] <popey> hehe
[04:33] <popey> they try
[04:33] <unstable> Plug: sorry Adobe did postscript
[04:34] <unstable> But they based it off some xerox crap
[04:34] <popey> "Portable Document Format (PDF) is a file format proprietary to Adobe Systems for representing two-dimensional documents in a ...."
[04:34] <unstable> ..."Adobe holds a number of patents relating to the PDF format and claims that it is an open standard, licensing them on a royalty-free basis for use in developing software that complies with its PDF specification.[1] "
[04:34] <unstable> So that's like Microsoft's MSXML Office 2007 format.
[04:34] <unstable> It's the "we won't sue you don't worry...we're your friend" type of promise
[04:34] <unstable> heh
[04:35] <unstable> They want their format to spread and be widely adopted.(hence no royalty fees) but anytime there is an entity with lots of money using the format they got you by the balls.
[04:35] <unstable> Hence MS Office 2007 isn't going to support exporting to pdf.
[04:36] <unstable> But OpenOffice.org has exported to pdf for a long time.
[04:37] <unstable> Since they have no money. heh
[04:38] <unstable> gif(lzw/unisys) patents expired 5 days ago
[04:38] <unstable> We can all use gif freely(libre) now.
[04:38] <unstable> mp3 patents will expire in 2009
[04:38] <popey> no more burnallgifs
[04:38] <unstable> mpeg-2 is a bitch
[04:38] <popey> can they be renewed?
[04:38] <unstable> There are like 700+ patents on mpeg-2
[04:38] <unstable> popey: no
[04:38] <unstable> They can add new crap though, and patent that.
[04:38] <unstable> But gif won't be changed.
[04:39] <popey> \o/ png
[04:39] <unstable> Here is a sad fact...
[04:39] <unstable> mpeg-2 patent licensing/negotiations took longer to do, then actually created the mpeg-2 standard.
[04:39] <popey> :(
[04:39] <unstable> then actually creating the mpeg-2 standard*
[04:42] <unstable> I wonder...I'm not a lawyer, but Canonical is based on that island between Ireland and Britian...
[04:42] <unstable> I would think Ubuntu could just distribute anything that has been software idea patented...and not worry aboutit.
[04:43] <popey> Isle Of Man
[04:43] <unstable> since european courts don't enforce software idea patents
[04:43] <unstable> yea, Isle of Man
[04:43] <unstable> which is a great name, considering the context
[04:43] <unstable> Ubuntu(Isle Of Man)
[04:43] <popey> Canonical isn't based there
[04:44] <popey> they just are registered there for tax purposes
[04:44] <popey> their office is in London
[04:44] <unstable> ahh
[04:45] <unstable> I wonder how they are allowed to have libdvdread3 in ubuntu.com repos
[04:45] <unstable> Europe has a DMCA type act, iirc
[04:46] <popey> EUCD
[04:46] <unstable> popey: Is it less ridiculous compared to DMCA and it allows such technologies like libdvdread3?
[04:46] <popey> I don't know enough about it to be honest
[04:46] <popey> but the DMCA blows goats
[04:46] <popey> I have proof
[04:46] <unstable> Is there an ubuntu-legal mailing list?
[04:46] <unstable> Does Ubuntu use SPI?
[04:47] <unstable> popey: I agree.
[04:47] <popey> there's not a public legal list I don't think
[04:47] <popey> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/
[04:47] <unstable> Kind of sucks to go to the video store pop a disc into my computer and commit a criminal offense everytime I watch a movie.(since I'm a GNU/Linux user)
[04:48] <unstable> Does Ubuntu use SPI? Or do they use someone else or other entity?
[04:48] <popey> no idea
[04:49] <popey> ubuntu probably uses canonicals resources
[04:49] <popey> whatever they may be - canonical is a private comapny so
[04:49] <popey> *shrug*
[12:19] <jenda> Huzzah, MenZa
[12:20] <jenda> amazing... a moderation request comes and before I can handle it, it's done :) Much better than before.
[12:26] <MenZa> Hello :)
[12:26] <MenZa> Would anyone have any clue how to unlock a Sony Ericsson K800i?
[12:27] <jenda> Got the key?
[12:27] <jenda> There's gotta be a keyhole somewhere.
[12:27] <MenZa> heh
[01:27] <jenda> beep... beep... bip ... quit ... bip... quit...
[02:41] <poningru> arr?
[02:46] <MenZa> again?
[02:46] <MenZa> O.o
[04:51] <poningru> crap uh... ignore what I said
[06:38] <MenZa> /ignore poningru_work___ all
[06:38] <MenZa> ;)
[08:33] <BHSPitLappy> hey MenZa
[08:33] <MenZa> harro.
[08:33] <BHSPitLappy> weren't you involved with some case badge stickers
[10:28] <poningru> yarr