[12:33] <rowanjl> I've got a question, I'm not familiar with how Linux boots so be warned:
[12:33] <rowanjl> What controls the output during the boot?
[12:33] <Keybuk> various different pieces
[12:33] <rowanjl> mm
[12:33] <Keybuk> obviously init is initially responsible for setting stdout of the scripts it runs
[12:33] <rowanjl> yeah
[12:33] <Keybuk> the scripts are then responsible for actually outputting stuff
[12:34] <Keybuk> often they use the LSB functions for that
[12:34] <Keybuk> and those functions may know that a graphical splash screen is running
[12:34] <rowanjl> Which gives it the uniform look?
[12:34] <rowanjl> I mean
[12:34] <Keybuk> or that the script's stdout is not /dev/console, so write to /dev/console explicitly
[12:34] <Keybuk> the LSB functions
[12:34] <rowanjl> Item name...     [OK|FAILED|...
[12:34] <Keybuk> /lib/lsb/init-functions
[12:34] <rowanjl> hmm
[12:35] <Keybuk> often overriden by /etc/lsb-base-logging.sh
[12:35] <rowanjl> You ever notice how the image overlay often disappears to early?
[12:36] <Keybuk> yes, usplash times out if it doesn't receive something in a certain time period
[12:36] <rowanjl> ahh, I see
[12:37] <rowanjl> I guess that makes sense, untill my mother uses it ;)
[12:37] <rowanjl> She was scared the first time that happened... pretty sad
[12:38] <Keybuk> yeah
[12:38] <Keybuk> mostly it's when your disk gets checked that it disappears
[12:38] <Keybuk> so you can see the disk check output underneath
[12:39] <rowanjl> On my computer it happens while X is loading
[12:39] <rowanjl> Or just before
[12:40] <Keybuk> yeah, there's a brief blank before it switches to X
[12:40] <Keybuk> has to be, as it has to clear up the console
[12:40] <Keybuk> sadly the Linux VT layer sucks
[12:40] <Keybuk> it's not possible to change VT settings unless it's the current VT
[12:40] <rowanjl> Hmm
[12:41] <Md> Keybuk: are you sure? I remember using e.g. setleds ... < /dev/tty2
[12:41] <rowanjl> I worry about these things sometimes, how can they be polished...
[12:42] <rowanjl> There's all this fuss about Linux for Desktops, but is that really what we need?
[12:42] <rowanjl> A desktop OS is better off booting right into its graphical layer
[12:42] <Keybuk> Md: some bits work, most don't -- see setupcon for some hacks
[12:43] <Keybuk> we can't change the console font and keymap while usplash is running without chvt'ing to a text screen
[12:43] <Keybuk> rowanjl: why?  no other desktop OS boots directly into graphical
[12:43] <rowanjl> No major ones
[12:43] <rowanjl> ;)
[12:44] <Keybuk> name one
[12:44] <rowanjl> Syllable
[12:44] <Keybuk> at what point does it start the full graphical?
[12:45] <Keybuk> an x86 doesn't boot into graphical
[12:45] <Keybuk> so at some point, you have to do a flip
[12:45] <rowanjl> No your right, but it IS different to Linux
[12:45] <rowanjl> because it was never indented to have a console
[12:45] <Keybuk> the Linux console is just hysterical
[12:46] <rowanjl> pardon? :/
[12:46] <Keybuk> we could get rid of it easily, and just start X on the framebuffer on the first VT, etc.
[12:46] <Keybuk> sorry, historical ;)
[12:46] <rowanjl> heh
[12:47] <rowanjl> I know I'd miss the console, but I guess a real desktop Linux variant would replace it
[12:49] <Keybuk> there isn't anything to gain from getting rid of t
[12:49] <Keybuk> sure, it makes you feel fluffy, but there's no improvement
[12:49] <Keybuk> and it means that there's no quick escape to a login prompt when you break X :)
[12:50] <rowanjl> true :P
[12:50] <rowanjl> but it also means people will pay us to fix their Linux boxes :P
[12:50] <Keybuk> we have to have a text VT when we boot, because that's what the host architecture gives us
[12:50] <rowanjl> You could do what Windows does, have a Safe Boot option.
[12:50] <Keybuk> sure, we can have all that
[12:51] <Keybuk> but there's still no reason to get rid of a text console
[12:51] <rowanjl> Most of us do now anyhow
[12:51] <rowanjl> Well, there is, Users like polish, textmode isn't polished
[12:51] <Keybuk> but users won't even know it's there
[12:52] <rowanjl> but there are probably better ways to hide it
[12:52] <Keybuk> "hide" ?
[12:52] <rowanjl> hide the console
[12:52] <Keybuk> why does it need to be hidden?
[12:52] <rowanjl> like I was saying before, it is often visible when it doesn't really need to be
[12:52] <rowanjl> because end users are not geeks.
[12:52] <Keybuk> at the moment, it does need to be visible at those moments
[12:52] <Keybuk> we slowly, but surely, fix those
[12:53] <rowanjl> yeah
[12:53] <Keybuk> ideally when X starts, the splash screen would just be replaced by X
[12:53] <rowanjl> yep
[12:53] <Keybuk> but we can't do that right now, because we can't reset the console underneath
[12:53] <Keybuk> that's a code limitation, that should be fixable in the long term
[12:54] <rowanjl> mm
[12:54] <rowanjl> now that was pretty bad
[12:54] <rowanjl> everythings come a long way since