=== mbiebl [n=michael@dslb-084-056-226-121.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #upstart === j_ack_ [n=rudi@p508D8C38.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #upstart === Ingmar^ [n=ingmar@37.161-201-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #upstart === j_ack [n=rudi@p508D8C38.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #upstart === johnnybuoy [n=void@unaffiliated/johnnybuoy] has joined #upstart === Seveas [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #upstart === j_ack [n=rudi@p508DA2D8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #upstart === j_ack_ [n=rudi@p508D9C0B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #upstart === j_ack__ [n=rudi@p508D9C87.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #upstart === j_ack [n=rudi@p508D9CE5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #upstart === j_ack [n=rudi@p508D97F2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #upstart === j_ack [n=rudi@p508D97F2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #upstart === juergbi [n=juerg@80-219-26-249.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #upstart === nibil [n=bil@adsl-static-3-105.uklinux.net] has joined #upstart === Md [i=md@freenode/staff/md] has joined #upstart === Keybuk [n=scott@quest.netsplit.com] has joined #upstart === rowanjl [n=rowan@d220-238-217-48.dsl.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #upstart [12:33] I've got a question, I'm not familiar with how Linux boots so be warned: [12:33] What controls the output during the boot? [12:33] various different pieces [12:33] mm [12:33] obviously init is initially responsible for setting stdout of the scripts it runs [12:33] yeah [12:33] the scripts are then responsible for actually outputting stuff [12:34] often they use the LSB functions for that [12:34] and those functions may know that a graphical splash screen is running [12:34] Which gives it the uniform look? [12:34] I mean [12:34] or that the script's stdout is not /dev/console, so write to /dev/console explicitly [12:34] the LSB functions [12:34] Item name... [OK|FAILED|... [12:34] /lib/lsb/init-functions [12:34] hmm [12:35] often overriden by /etc/lsb-base-logging.sh [12:35] You ever notice how the image overlay often disappears to early? [12:36] yes, usplash times out if it doesn't receive something in a certain time period [12:36] ahh, I see [12:37] I guess that makes sense, untill my mother uses it ;) [12:37] She was scared the first time that happened... pretty sad [12:38] yeah [12:38] mostly it's when your disk gets checked that it disappears [12:38] so you can see the disk check output underneath [12:39] On my computer it happens while X is loading [12:39] Or just before [12:40] yeah, there's a brief blank before it switches to X [12:40] has to be, as it has to clear up the console [12:40] sadly the Linux VT layer sucks [12:40] it's not possible to change VT settings unless it's the current VT [12:40] Hmm [12:41] Keybuk: are you sure? I remember using e.g. setleds ... < /dev/tty2 [12:41] I worry about these things sometimes, how can they be polished... [12:42] There's all this fuss about Linux for Desktops, but is that really what we need? [12:42] A desktop OS is better off booting right into its graphical layer [12:42] Md: some bits work, most don't -- see setupcon for some hacks [12:43] we can't change the console font and keymap while usplash is running without chvt'ing to a text screen [12:43] rowanjl: why? no other desktop OS boots directly into graphical [12:43] No major ones [12:43] ;) [12:44] name one [12:44] Syllable [12:44] at what point does it start the full graphical? [12:45] an x86 doesn't boot into graphical [12:45] so at some point, you have to do a flip [12:45] No your right, but it IS different to Linux [12:45] because it was never indented to have a console [12:45] the Linux console is just hysterical [12:46] pardon? :/ [12:46] we could get rid of it easily, and just start X on the framebuffer on the first VT, etc. [12:46] sorry, historical ;) [12:46] heh [12:47] I know I'd miss the console, but I guess a real desktop Linux variant would replace it [12:49] there isn't anything to gain from getting rid of t [12:49] sure, it makes you feel fluffy, but there's no improvement [12:49] and it means that there's no quick escape to a login prompt when you break X :) [12:50] true :P [12:50] but it also means people will pay us to fix their Linux boxes :P [12:50] we have to have a text VT when we boot, because that's what the host architecture gives us [12:50] You could do what Windows does, have a Safe Boot option. [12:50] sure, we can have all that [12:51] but there's still no reason to get rid of a text console [12:51] Most of us do now anyhow [12:51] Well, there is, Users like polish, textmode isn't polished [12:51] but users won't even know it's there [12:52] but there are probably better ways to hide it [12:52] "hide" ? [12:52] hide the console [12:52] why does it need to be hidden? [12:52] like I was saying before, it is often visible when it doesn't really need to be [12:52] because end users are not geeks. [12:52] at the moment, it does need to be visible at those moments [12:52] we slowly, but surely, fix those [12:53] yeah [12:53] ideally when X starts, the splash screen would just be replaced by X [12:53] yep [12:53] but we can't do that right now, because we can't reset the console underneath [12:53] that's a code limitation, that should be fixable in the long term [12:54] mm === rowanjl remembers Red Hat 5.2 booting... [12:54] now that was pretty bad [12:54] everythings come a long way since === Keybuk just made sure that there was a spec for that for uds-mv === cortana [n=sam@62-31-146-25.cable.ubr12.azte.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #upstart === Keybuk [n=scott@quest.netsplit.com] has joined #upstart === nibil [n=bil@adsl-static-3-105.uklinux.net] has joined #upstart === juergbi [n=juerg@80-219-26-249.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #upstart === trappist [i=trappist@tra.ppi.st] has joined #upstart === zorglub [n=zorglub@wahe.diwi.org] has joined #upstart === rowanjl [n=rowan@d220-238-217-48.dsl.vic.optusnet.com.au] has left #upstart ["Quick] === adam_vollrath [n=adam@pc152.BISonline.com] has joined #upstart === wasabi [n=wasabi@ubuntu/member/wasabi] has joined #upstart === j_ack [n=rudi@p508D8079.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #upstart === j_ack [n=rudi@p508D8079.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #upstart === cortana [n=sam@62-31-146-25.cable.ubr12.azte.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #upstart === gebi [n=gebi@85-124-42-35.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #upstart === madduck [n=madduck@debian/developer/madduck] has joined #upstart === zx64 [n=zx64@freecnc/zx64] has joined #upstart === Md [i=md@freenode/staff/md] has joined #upstart === Keybuk [n=scott@quest.netsplit.com] has joined #upstart === nibil [n=bil@adsl-static-3-105.uklinux.net] has joined #upstart === juergbi [n=juerg@80-219-26-249.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #upstart === trappist [i=trappist@tra.ppi.st] has joined #upstart === zorglub [n=zorglub@wahe.diwi.org] has joined #upstart === mjg59 [n=mjg59@cavan.codon.org.uk] has joined #upstart === wasabi [n=wasabi@ubuntu/member/wasabi] has joined #upstart === adam_vollrath [n=adam@pc152.BISonline.com] has joined #upstart === Seveas [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #upstart === thom [n=thom@195.54.228.42] has joined #upstart === vvl [i=vvl@leviathan.hellfish.org] has joined #upstart === _ion [i=johan@kiviniemi.name] has joined #upstart === Artanicus [i=kuitunej@lehtori.cc.tut.fi] has joined #upstart === okto [n=okto@203.81.186.207] has joined #upstart === adam_vollrath [n=adam@pc152.BISonline.com] has left #upstart [] === x4NothinKx [n=stefan@p57A2D933.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #upstart === wasabi_ [n=wasabi@ubuntu/member/wasabi] has joined #upstart === j_ack [n=rudi@p508D8079.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #upstart === nibil [n=bil@adsl-static-3-105.uklinux.net] has left #upstart ["wibble"] === j_ack [n=rudi@p508D8079.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #upstart === j_ack [n=rudi@p508D8079.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #upstart === Ingmar^ [n=ingmar@d51A48598.access.telenet.be] has joined #upstart === Ingmar^ [n=ingmar@d51A48598.access.telenet.be] has joined #upstart === j_ack [n=rudi@p508D8079.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #upstart === Amaranth [n=travis@ubuntu/member/amaranth] has joined #upstart === j_ack [n=rudi@p508D8079.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #upstart === Ingmar^ [n=ingmar@d51A48598.access.telenet.be] has joined #upstart === j_ack [n=rudi@p508D8079.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #upstart === mbiebl [n=michael@dslb-084-057-242-221.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #upstart === Ingmar^ [n=ingmar@d51A48598.access.telenet.be] has joined #upstart