[04:46] <LjL> ompaul, hi
[04:46] <ompaul> how do :)
[04:47] <LjL> ompaul: better than a few days ago...
[04:47] <LjL> i've made a few (not really radical) changes to DialupModemHowto, mainly putting all the repeated instructions on "how to download stuff from another machine", "how to install gcc", "how to install gcc 3.4" into a single place
[04:48] <LjL> what would be the best way to reference that sort of thing from inside the page? -- in other words, whenever a step is mentioned that involves setting up GCC (etc), i'd like to have a link to the relevant section
[04:49] <ompaul> why 3.4 
[04:49] <ompaul> gcc version 4.0.3 (Ubuntu 4.0.3-1ubuntu5)
[04:49] <ompaul> that is for dapper
[04:49] <LjL> ompaul: i don't know... it's mentioned on the page several times, as something you need to install for compiling certain drivers
[04:49] <ompaul> that was true up to breezy 
[04:49] <LjL> ompaul: i didn't investigate whether that's really necessary, or gcc 4.0 is fine
[04:50] <LjL> i basically just changed the layout
[04:50] <ompaul>  s/gcc 3.4/gcc :)
[04:50] <ompaul> back in a few mins
[04:50] <LjL> ompaul: *shrug* i know that page's a mess, and a lot of the advice in it is probably doubtful, but what should i do
[04:51] <LjL> i don't *have* all those modems, so i can't just scrap everything that is there and rewrite it differently ;)
[04:51] <LjL> all i can do i make the page a little more structured...
[04:52] <LjL> ompaul: also, have a look at https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/winmodem-support , and in "Read more", go to the "Discussion" section, where i've just added a suggestion... what do you think?
[04:53] <LjL> after all, DialupModemHowto is a mess, but that's partially because making those modems works *is* a mess, i'm afraid =)
[04:56] <ompaul> been a long time since I did one
[04:58] <LjL> ompaul: me too... actually, i *never* had to deal with that stuff, since when i was using a modem, it was a real one. ;)
[04:59] <LjL> ompaul: anyway, the question at hand is... was is the way (if any) in the wiki to make (long) footnotes? -- i think all that GCC stuff would be much better formatted as footnotes
[05:00] <LjL> you know, having whole sections at the top of the page, and then making links such as DialupModemHowto#head-e2fda33ea2fad3f2139a25629c62504fbbbd6abe , is not what i consider particularly elegant
[05:00] <ompaul> LjL, when I could not use real internal I got external serial one
[05:00] <ompaul> :)
[05:00] <ompaul> sorry dude I am running around like a headless chicken 
[05:01] <LjL> ompaul: i've got too external 56K modems, but i never really used them... i always went with my internal (but real) 33.6K modem, then switched to fiber
[05:01] <ompaul> LjL, the bug is nuts - then we have to get licences and check against 
[05:02] <ompaul> LjL, 200+ modems
[05:02] <ompaul> in my personal opinion much better if people are told that they are being cheated out of good hardware cos this one wants to rob your cpu cycles for modem work :)
[05:02] <LjL> ompaul: you mean that proposal for auto-installing drivers? well yeah, that's one of the reason i suggested that we just *check* for unsupported modems, and inform the user
[05:03] <ompaul> yeap
[05:03] <ompaul> it seems to me that the "open cd" aspect of our CD should give way to being something that rocks more 
[05:04] <LjL> ompaul: well, you could make the "friendly dialog window" i proposed a bit different if you want to convey that message... like, "Your modem is software-defined and only comes with software for the Windows operating systems, thus ...."
[05:04] <LjL> ompaul: like what?
[05:05] <ompaul> LjL, well to accomidate the "your hardware is not supported out of the box here is a page with the steps that get it rocking"
[05:06] <ompaul> then after that they get a "Some hardware gives pain, WHY?" links
[05:06] <ompaul> sorry my english is broken as is my brain today 
[05:06] <LjL> ompaul: uhm, yeah, but doesn't necessarily have to be an "Open CD" sort of feature imho... it could just be a [prominent]  topic in the Help system
[05:07] <ompaul> LjL, sorry, you misread my intention
[05:07] <LjL> ompaul: but the foundamental aspect in my opinion is that the system should *automatically* detected undetected hardware (err... sorry for the pun) and tell the user. you know, users just *don't* reach for the documentation, unless you force them to
[05:08] <ompaul> LjL, the Open CD aspect, should be replaced with CODE that does what you say 
[05:08] <ompaul> three penguins sitting on the edge of an iceberg and they see a killer whale circling just off the shore, one of them mutters, "guess it is just fries again this evening"
[05:09] <LjL> ...
[05:10] <LjL> ompaul: oh by the way, i installed Ubuntu on a relative's computer with a WiFi network... *and it worked out of the box* ;-) i'd never have expected that, given the quantity of people coming and complaining about ndiswrappers and whatever it is
[05:11] <LjL> well, didn't really work out of the box because i didn't know the various machine IP, gateway address, SSID, and all that... but that was definitely a user problem
[05:11] <ompaul> penguin home on a linksys
[05:12] <LjL> ah honestly i don't even know what that Wifi PCI card's brand was
[05:12] <LjL> i was already having enough trouble trying to mount the wrong fan on the wrong dissipator of the wrong processor, to bother looking at hardware specs :\
[05:13] <LjL> ever heard the noise from a 7500RPM fan? i hope i won't again
[09:22] <mdke> it's high time we branched for edgy
[09:49] <nixternal> woohoo
[10:05] <mdke> nixternal: how are you placed for the next few days? I'm going to need some help with edgy translations
[10:05] <nixternal> im open
[10:05] <nixternal> i can help you out
[10:06] <mdke> good news :)
[10:06] <mdke> I'll do some testing first then give you a shout
[10:06] <nixternal> no..the good news is "i just a ton of money by switching to geico"
[10:06] <nixternal> hmm..i wonder if geico commercials are as great in the UK as they are in the US :)
[10:06] <mdke> saved?
[10:07] <mdke> I'm not sure we have em in the UK
[10:07] <nixternal> that should have said "i just SAVED a ton of 
[10:07] <nixternal> hahaha
[10:07] <nixternal> you got the idea though...there is a lizard that speaks with a brit accent...great stuff
[10:07] <nixternal> ya, just let me know when you need a hand, and i will hop in
[10:08] <mdke> lizards are good
[10:08] <nixternal> hehe
[10:08] <mdke> thanks, I will mail ya
[10:09] <nixternal> sounds good to me
[10:09] <mdke> damn jobs, taking up too much Ubuntu time
[10:09] <nixternal> i have noticed
[10:09] <mdke> yeah?
[10:09] <mdke> no, that was me being on holiday.
[10:10] <nixternal> you have been rather idle around the channel since you got back...see, i switched from working to go back to school..only reason i am here as much as i am
[10:10] <mdke> ah
[11:02] <FireRabbit> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CompositeManager i updated this entire secure with information about Edgy and Beryl, if anyone wants to look it over
[11:14] <pepsiman> FireRabbit: "You may just want to put export XLIB_SKIP_ARGB_VISUALS=1 in your ~/.bashrc if this fixes the problems. It is probably better to do it just for the programs that break with Composite, so new problems don't appear."  Is "so new problems don't appear" supposed to be in the first sentence?
[11:15] <FireRabbit> ah i didnt write (or read) that
[11:16] <FireRabbit> ill just get rid of that bit
[11:16] <pepsiman> yeah
[11:16] <FireRabbit> yipes that whole thing is horribly written
[11:18] <FireRabbit> if someone encounters a program that goes bonkers when run along with a composite manager, they should file a bug with that program
[11:21] <pepsiman> yes, but a workaround is still useful
[11:21] <FireRabbit> yes, i am rewriting it, it will still include the workaround
[11:22] <pepsiman> good
[11:28] <FireRabbit> pepsiman: reload
[11:28] <FireRabbit> doh, s/is/are/
[11:29] <FireRabbit> fixed :P
[11:30] <pepsiman> the & has gone from the command line
[11:32] <FireRabbit> hm i suppose i could put that back
[11:33] <theCore> Burgundavia, ping