[12:11] <minghua> azeem: I suspect something is wrong during the build, like without -rfakeroot or something
[12:13] <azeem> hrm, maybe
[12:26] <TheMuso> Hey all.
[12:30] <theCore> is there different policies in Ubuntu debian/rules than Debian?
[12:31] <Laser_away> nope
[12:32] <theCore> ok, thanks
[12:34] <theCore> in the install rule should I test for root, with dh_testroot?
[12:35] <theCore> or I just do a distclean
[12:35] <Laser_away> dh_testroot is fine I think
[12:36] <theCore> nevermind, I just misread my diff
[12:39] <theCore> while I trying to fix a bug, is it correct to merge some the changes from Debian?
[12:40] <theCore> or, should I just keep it the minimum
[12:40] <Laser_away> try to keep divergence to a minimum, but if we need it, we need it
[12:41] <theCore> what if there's some real ugliness in the rules file?
[12:42] <theCore> like calling ln -s twenty times
[12:43] <theCore> instead of calling dh_installman
[12:46] <azeem> theCore: does the package Build-Depend on debhelper?
[12:46] <theCore> azeem, yes
[12:48] <jdong> aw crap, missed nafallo
[12:49] <theCore> I don't know why but I find packaging quite fun
[12:50] <crimsun> jdong: I respectfully disagree regarding backporting being managed by one person. Although I definitely encourage you to seek ubuntu-dev membership to alleviate the bottleneck in processing backports, backports really need to be confirmed by a majority of the team members.
[12:51] <jdong> crimsun: me too... there used to be a more active backporting team, but they've all gone their directions
[12:51] <jdong> the whole way backports is done needs to be re-hashed
[12:51] <jdong> maybe I'll add that to TB instead
[12:53] <crimsun> currently core-dev can upload to dapper-backports, so that's not a bottleneck
[12:53] <gnomefreak> is there a how to for nackports
[12:53] <crimsun> I'm happy to elide the team into a sort of de facto ubuntu-backports-sponsors
[12:53] <gnomefreak> backports*
[12:56] <jdong> gnomefreak: take an edgy package, add "~dapper1" to the version, and send it through a dapper pbuilder
[12:56] <jdong> gnomefreak: the hours and hours of work is in making sure those packages work
[12:56] <jdong> and even with those hours one person can still let things slip through
[12:56] <jdong> *cough* flashplayer *cough* :(
[12:57] <crimsun> ...which should /not/ have been backported. It should have gone into -security.
[12:57] <Laser_away> is there a way to use something like -proposed?
[12:57] <Laser_away> or is that adding too many layers
[12:57] <jdong> Laser_away: unofficial backports had a proposed (staging) repo
[12:57] <jdong> official backports doesn't
[12:57] <Laser_away> there's unofficial backports?
[12:58] <crimsun> unofficial? sure. hello ch*kinstall?
[01:00] <Laser_away> crimsun: if it's good enough for a distro it's got to be good enough for -backports ;-)
[01:00] <crimsun> :-)
[01:10] <gnomefreak> jdong: all i need is a dapper pbuilder for backports or building dapper packages/patches
[01:10] <theCore> what is the syntax for debian/package.manpages?
[01:17] <ajmitch> gnomefreak: that's deserving of a ban in here :)
[01:18] <gnomefreak> ;) it was what i learned im building pbuilder atm so maybe no more using it ;)
[01:18] <gnomefreak> brb dinner
[01:20] <ajmitch> sigh
[01:21] <ajmitch> from someone coming in to upstream's channel asking a question, to leaving because they think the project is dead.. 3 minutes
[01:21] <ajmitch> that has to be a new record
[01:25] <TheMuso> whaa! Another kernel.
[01:26] <ajmitch> yay!
[01:32] <joejaxx> anyone know anything here about gpgkeys? i cannot build packages until i solve this gpg issue
[01:32] <theCore> TheMuso, there's a new kernel everyday
[01:48] <bddebian> Heya gang
[01:52] <ajmitch> hi
[01:56] <bddebian> Heya ajmitch
[02:01] <gnomefreak> pbuilder doesnt like to build on edgy :(
[02:05] <keescook> whee.  anyone want to sponsor my inkscape fix for bug 63644?  I've attached a debdiff for it.
[02:05] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 63644 in inkscape "Annoying error pop up when saving for first time." [Unknown,Unknown]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63644
[02:31] <gnomefreak> can i skip this step? sudo pbuilder build *.dsc  its tell me no pbuilderrc file
[02:31] <gnomefreak> and *.dsc is bad
[02:31] <bddebian> That is just a warning
[02:31] <chillywilly> yea
[02:31] <chillywilly> just a warning
[02:31] <gnomefreak> ok so im ok on both of those?
[02:32] <bddebian> I don't think you can specify *.dsc
[02:32] <bddebian> But I could be wrong
[02:32] <chillywilly> sure you can
[02:33] <StevenK> gnomefreak: "pdebuild" in the source tree
[02:33] <chillywilly> if you have 1 .dsc file in the cwd
[02:36] <joejaxx> anyone here works with meta packages?
[02:39] <theCore> what does dh_install -s ?
[02:39] <chillywilly> man dh_install
[02:40] <theCore> chillywilly, -s isn't documented
[02:40] <theCore> that's why I ask
[02:41] <Toadstool> theCore: there are common options for all the dh_* scripts and they are documented in man debhelper
[02:41] <theCore> Toadstool, thanks
[02:41] <joejaxx> Toadstool: do you build meta-packages?
[02:41] <Toadstool> joejaxx: er, why?
[02:41] <joejaxx> i have built one but i have a question about it
[02:42] <Toadstool> just ask :)
[02:42] <joejaxx> ok
[02:42] <joejaxx> well i was looking at the ubuntu-meta package
[02:42] <joejaxx> and i followed the same format for the fluxbuntu-meta package
[02:42] <joejaxx> but during build time i get warning
[02:43] <joejaxx> like that
[02:43] <joejaxx> dpkg-gencontrol: warning: unknown substitution variable ${fluxbuntu-desktop:Depends}
[02:43] <joejaxx> like this*
[02:43] <Toadstool> hmm, wait, having a look at ubuntu-meta
[02:45] <joejaxx> instead of putting that variable there should i just put the depends?
[02:45] <theCore> where does dh_installman should be called?
[02:46] <theCore> in install or binary-arch?
[02:46] <Toadstool> joejaxx: look at how the ubuntu-$$package:Depends substitution vars are generated in ubuntu-meta debian/rules
[02:46] <joejaxx> ok
[02:46] <Toadstool> the for loop in build-stamp: target
[02:48] <joejaxx> oh
[02:49] <joejaxx> so now i have to create fluxbuntu-* seeds?
[02:50] <joejaxx> or should i just replace the variables with the real depends?
[02:50] <Toadstool> hmm... dunno
[02:51] <Toadstool> do you know exactly what Depnds you want?
[02:51] <joejaxx> yeah
[02:51] <joejaxx> but it seems that that build-stamp way is better
[02:51] <joejaxx> because it pulls from the seed list
[02:52] <joejaxx> so all you have to do is update the seed list
[02:53] <Toadstool> and use germinate
[02:54] <Toadstool> which is done by the update script in ubuntu-meta afaik
[02:55] <joejaxx> well there is no such thing as fluxbuntu-* seeds right now
[02:57] <joejaxx> so i think it whould just be better to manually have the depends in there
[03:01] <Toadstool> joejaxx: seeds are just text files in a bzr branch -> http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/seeds/
[03:02] <theCore> what the recommended optimization flag? -Os or -O2
[03:02] <theCore> what is*
[03:03] <joejaxx> Toadstool: yeah i know those are the official ubuntu seeds though
[03:07] <joejaxx> Toadstool: it is not like i can create fluxbuntu seeds and have them put there lol
[03:07] <Toadstool> no but you can put them somewhere else
[03:08] <joejaxx> but how do i change where the os looks for the seeds?
[03:09] <Toadstool> dunno, there must be some kind of option for germinate
[03:09] <joejaxx> oh ok
[03:09] <joejaxx> actually i think there is
[03:10] <joejaxx> where is germinate called in this process?
[03:11] <Toadstool> joejaxx: it's not automatically called
[03:12] <Toadstool> it's explained in README
[03:12] <Toadstool> and you can configure where update look for seeds in update.cfg ;)
[03:12] <Toadstool> *looks
[03:13] <joejaxx> boom found it
[03:13] <joejaxx> Toadstool: i did not see that README other wise i whould have read it
[03:13] <joejaxx> sorry about that
[03:13] <Toadstool> np
[03:13] <joejaxx> seed_base = 'http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/seeds/%s/ :D
[03:53] <theCore> is there a cleaner way to do this? http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/25866/
[03:55] <theCore> I'm thinking using a variable with a for loop
[04:21] <theCore> any ideas?
[04:22] <theCore> I am not lucky today; 3 questions, 0 answer :/
[04:22] <theCore> I guess I will be on my own for this one
[04:38] <bddebian> OK, I am learning to fucking hate scanf()
[04:39] <bddebian> theCore: Sorry, I just don't know
[04:39] <theCore> bddebian, it's alright, I found out myself
[04:45] <Toadstool> bddebian: still on your I-want-to-ignore-non-numeric-chars-with-scanf issue?
[04:46] <bddebian> Toadstool: No, now I'm trying to restrict the number of chars in a string
[04:47] <Toadstool> oh, ok
[04:52] <micahcowan> bddebian, I think all expert C users have learned to hate scanf().
[04:55] <micahcowan> scanf() isn't very good for restricting input characters in a string. To do it, you have to specify the limiting number of characters... as a string. So when that upper limit needs to be dynamic... well, it kinda sucks.
[04:55] <bddebian> micahcowan: What's a better way? gets(), getch()?
[04:56] <micahcowan> bddebian, gets() is evil. Never use it for anything.
[04:56] <micahcowan> Probably fgets() or similar. I'll typically use fgets() or something, and then I might use sscanf() if I wanted more interesting conversions...
[04:56] <bddebian> What is the diff between scanf() and sscanf()?
[04:57] <micahcowan> sscanf() scans a string instead of stdin.
[04:57] <theCore> how much changes I'm allowed to do in debian/ past the freeze?
[04:58] <theCore> bddebian, I saw an article once about using scanf() securely
[04:59] <theCore> maybe I could find it
[05:00] <micahcowan> I've very few uses for scanf(), actually: strtol() and the like give much better error-handling for numeric conversions, and most of the time I can just search for the end of whatever other token I might want. the character classes can occaisionally be handy, though.
[05:00] <micahcowan> *I've found very few...
[05:01] <theCore> hmm, it seems a better solution is using fgets with sscanf
[05:02] <theCore> but, then you still need to check for malicious input
[05:03] <bddebian> micahcowan: So what do you use to get user input?
[05:04] <pschulz01> G'day...
[05:05] <micahcowan> bddebian, usually fgets(), and then process the resulting string. If I can assume GNU, then I might use getline() instead.
[05:05] <Toadstool> bddebian: users?! since when do C programmers care about users? :)
[05:06] <micahcowan> readline() if I want fancier capabilities
[05:06] <pschulz01> I am looking at libgphoto2-2.2.1 documentation. I would like to submit a patch, but there are three different documentation types present (lyx,sgml,txt). Anyone have any idea what the 'real' documentation is?
[05:07] <pschulz01> The 'sgml' file says that it was generated by lyx.
[05:08] <pschulz01> I'm guessing that it's the lyx file then,
[05:08] <theCore> bddebian, how about this? char buffer[21] ; fgets(buffer, 20, stdin); if (strchr(buffer, '\n')) {(*(strchr(buffer, '\n'))) = '\0';}
[05:09] <bddebian> What happens if I input 22 chars?
[05:09] <theCore> it will only read the first 20
[05:10] <theCore> including the \n
[05:10] <theCore> so, only 19 will be read
[05:10] <bddebian> Are you sure?  I did a similar thing with scanf() and it overflows the buffer
[05:10] <theCore> pretty much
[05:10] <micahcowan> scanf() is built that way. Note that fgets() specifically takes a size argument.
[05:11] <bddebian> So does scanf() supposedly, if I use scanf( "%10s", foo )
[05:11] <micahcowan> However, whatever's left over will still be left in stdin, so you have to flush it out (/not/ with fflush()) by reading until the newline.
[05:11] <micahcowan> That shouldn't have overflowed the buffer if foo was size 11 or more...
[05:11] <bddebian>  foo = malloc (sizeof (char) * 11)
[05:12] <micahcowan> sizeof (char) is always 1
[05:12] <bddebian> Yes
[05:12] <bddebian> I know that was a stupid way to do it :)
[05:12] <micahcowan> How did you detect overflow?
[05:14] <bddebian> I'm dumping it all to a "stack".. I'll post the code is a sec
[05:14] <bddebian> s/is/in/
[05:17] <bddebian> micahcowan: No laughing: http://www2.bddebian.com:8000/junk/ams/learn3.c :)
[05:20] <Toadstool> GNU/Hurd? :)
[05:22] <theCore> nice a calculator
[05:22] <theCore> bddebian, do you know about function pointers?
[05:24] <theCore> is it a reverse-polish calc?
[05:26] <theCore> uptime: 3.8 months. that's a lot
[05:26] <bddebian> Toadstool: But of course :)
[05:26] <bddebian> theCore: For Hurd it is :)
[05:27] <theCore> bddebian, you're not doing kernel update often, for sure
[05:27] <bddebian> theCore: Yes I know about function pointers, I'm just playing/learning
[05:28] <Toadstool> bddebian: I am playing with Pistachio and other microkernels at work :)
[05:28] <theCore> I got Steven's APUE just beside me, I think I will play/learn a little bit too
[05:29] <bddebian> Toadstool: Sweet, finish porting that sucker to GNU/Hurd will ya? ;-P
[05:29] <ajmitch> bddebian: you still persist with that hurd stuff?
[05:29] <Toadstool> bddebian: haha
[05:29] <bddebian> ajmitch: Yep, got 5 of them running now :-)
[05:29] <ajmitch> bddebian: port mach to xen kthx
[05:29] <bddebian> ajmitch: youpi is doing that
[05:30] <ajmitch> oh good, then it might be remotely useful to work on :)
[05:30] <ajmitch> I saw the task open on savannah, didn't know someone was doing it
[05:31] <theCore> a herd of Hurd!
[05:31] <ajmitch> theCore: no, a hird
[05:32] <LaserJock> anybody know of some web pased project managment software?
[05:33] <theCore> ajmitch, :)
[05:34] <bddebian> So the one guy I ask to look at my shitty code doesn't answer :-(
[05:35] <ajmitch> bddebian: maybe he's recovering
[05:35] <bddebian> :'-(
[05:35] <LaserJock> it's your code bddebian?
[05:36] <bddebian> yep
[05:37] <LaserJock> can  you do that in C++?
[05:37] <LaserJock> :-)
[05:38] <bddebian> Not a freakin' chance but I'm going to try it in assembler next :-)
[05:38] <theCore> ugh!
[05:38] <LaserJock> hmm, how about python?
[05:38] <bddebian> Possibly
[05:38] <bddebian> I did a similar thing in postscript a while back
[05:39] <LaserJock> I'm wanting to learn C++
[05:39] <LaserJock> that's why I asked
[05:39] <bddebian> Me too eventually
[05:40] <theCore> LaserJock, maybe you should with C
[05:40] <bddebian> Gah micahcowan left :-(
[05:41] <theCore> LaserJock, C++ is a big-hairy beast
[05:41] <bddebian> I didn't think it was THAT bad :-(
[05:41] <LaserJock> well, I have a project I want to help with that is written in C++
[05:43] <bddebian> The L4 microkernel? ;-)
[05:43] <theCore> "C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot; C++ makes it harder, but when you do, it blows away your whole leg." -- Bjarne Stroustrup
[05:43] <bddebian> haha
[05:43] <theCore> that's my favourite quote about C++
[05:45] <LaserJock> it's a gnome chemistry project
[05:45] <bddebian> cool
[05:46] <LaserJock> it really is a sweet project
[05:46] <LaserJock> actually several
[05:46] <LaserJock> all done by one guy
[05:47] <theCore> LaserJock, what the name of the app?
[05:47] <theCore> what's*
[05:47] <bddebian> Oh, the guy with the website for bkchem and all that?
[05:49] <LaserJock> not bkchem, I don't think
[05:49] <LaserJock> he does
[05:50] <LaserJock> chemical-mime-data
[05:50] <LaserJock> gnome-chemistry-utils
[05:50] <LaserJock> gchempaint
[05:50] <LaserJock> by himself
[05:50] <LaserJock> and also works on goffice and abiword
[05:50] <bddebian> Oh aye, the chemical-mime-data stuff
[05:54] <theCore> what does I do when I'm done with my package?
[05:55] <LaserJock> put it on REVU
[05:55] <theCore> LaserJock, it is not a new package
[05:56] <theCore> I just post my patch on Launchpad?
[05:58] <imbrandon> yea if its not new, post a debdiff on the LP bug it fixes and subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors
[05:58] <imbrandon> theCore, ^
[05:58] <imbrandon> moins all
[05:58] <theCore> and what if it does not just fix the bug
[05:59] <theCore> I cleaned up the whole debian/rules file
[05:59] <imbrandon> well its got to fix /something/ otherwise it wouldent be needed heh, so make a bug of the problem you fixed and attach it
[06:00] <imbrandon> only cleaned up the debian/rules ?
[06:00] <bddebian> Heya imbrandon
[06:00] <imbrandon> heya bddebian
[06:00] <imbrandon> theCore, is the package in debian ?
[06:03] <theCore> I think I will adopt the package
[06:03] <theCore> it haven't been updated since 2005
[06:03] <ajmitch> is it orphaned in debian?
[06:04] <imbrandon> heya ajmitch
[06:04] <theCore> imbrandon, I made the package conform with the latest debian-policy, corrected the python extension problem, and made the rules file more readable
[06:04] <ajmitch> hello imbrandon
[06:04] <theCore> ajmitch, I don't think so
[06:05] <imbrandon> theCore, ahh well thats a bit more than "cleaned up the rules" heh
[06:05] <theCore> ajmitch, I used debian version as a reference for fixing the bug
[06:05] <ajmitch> so you plan to fork the packaging from what debian has?
[06:05] <theCore> imbrandon, I'm not done yet, though
[06:06] <theCore> imbrandon, I still have to correct debian/*.{dirs,files}
[06:06] <imbrandon> theCore, ok i'm missing something here, its not orphaned in debian but your changing it from debian ?
[06:06] <theCore> imbrandon, it's orphaned in Ubuntu
[06:07] <theCore> the package is libming
[06:07] <ajmitch> I see
[06:07] <imbrandon> theCore, there is no sense of orphaning in Ubuntu, we all maintain all packages as a group, and if its maintained in debian it cant be orphaned as we sync from them
[06:07] <ajmitch> theCore: have you looked at the 'ming' source package in debian?
[06:07] <theCore> there also errors in the Debian version
[06:07] <theCore> ajmitch, yea
[06:08] <theCore> *yes
[06:08] <ajmitch> we strongly discourage people from doing random forks of debian packaging
[06:08] <imbrandon> theCore, great , this is one of the times then you make a patch and send it upstream to the debian maintainer
[06:08] <ajmitch> it duplicates work & causes friction
[06:08] <imbrandon> yea what ajmitch said
[06:08] <theCore> imbrandon, that's what I want to
[06:08] <ajmitch> theCore: you said it hasn't been updated for a year - ming was last updated about 8 weeks ago in debian
[06:09] <theCore> ajmitch, do you know why it haven't been sync'ed?
[06:09] <ajmitch> because we have upstream version freeze early in the edgy cycle which applies across the whole distro for stopping of autosyncs
[06:10] <ajmitch> hence anything from the main UVF until universe freeze had to be manually synced
[06:11] <theCore> ajmitch, well, it been a year, that's before edgy started...
[06:11] <imbrandon> he just said it was updated 8 weeks ago
[06:11] <imbrandon> thats not
[06:12] <joejaxx> ajmitch: man i hope i have no missed the feature freeze
[06:12] <joejaxx> not*
[06:12] <imbrandon> joejaxx, yea by quite a bit
[06:12] <ajmitch> joejaxx: oh we're well past feature freeze for edgy
[06:12] <imbrandon> the release schedule is in the topic bro
[06:13] <joejaxx> oh nevermind
[06:13] <joejaxx> universe has nothing to do with the feature freeze
[06:13] <ajmitch> no, but we have universe freeze as of a week ago
[06:13] <imbrandon> yea but universe freeze is here too
[06:13] <theCore> the other problem is that Debian changed the name of the package
[06:14] <theCore> in Debian, libming is called just ming
[06:14] <joejaxx> imbrandon: so i should be compiling for edgy+1?
[06:14] <imbrandon> joejaxx, yea but edgy+1 is edgy atm
[06:14] <imbrandon> same toolchain
[06:14] <joejaxx> i guess i waited to long
[06:15] <theCore> that is back to oct. 15 2005
[06:15] <theCore> that's probably why it haven't been sync'ed
[06:15] <joejaxx> imbrandon: i guess i am going to have to keep fluxbuntu-* in the fluxbuntu repos until edgy+1
[06:16] <theCore> ajmitch, does auto-sync handle name changes?
[06:17] <bddebian> Gnight folks
[06:17] <imbrandon> theCore, what 2 packages are you talking about
[06:17] <imbrandon> gnight bddebian
[06:17] <joejaxx> goodnight bddebian
[06:17] <theCore> imbrandon, libming
[06:18] <theCore> imbrandon, in Debian, it's `ming'
[06:18] <theCore> since the name change, it haven't been updated
[06:19] <ajmitch> theCore: again, the name change was after the syncs stopped
[06:19] <imbrandon> [2006-07-05]  Accepted 1:0.3.0-6 in unstable (low) (Stuart R. Anderson)
[06:19] <imbrandon> thats AFTER the syncs stoped
[06:19] <imbrandon> it will go next sync round
[06:19] <ajmitch> probably only just aftre
[06:21] <theCore> so, what should I do?
[06:22] <joejaxx> imbrandon: may i pm you?
[06:22] <imbrandon> joejaxx, i dont mind
[06:22] <imbrandon> theCore, file a sync request and have a MOTU ack it or wait till auto syncing starts again
[06:24] <theCore> is there a place that explains how to do that?
[06:24] <imbrandon> theCore, last url in the topic
[06:25] <theCore> imbrandon, thanks
[06:26] <ajmitch> nice
[06:26] <ajmitch> autopkgtest in the NEW queue
[06:27] <ajmitch> seems that iwj has some xen/lvm magic going for it
[06:31] <theCore> does posix regex is allowed in debian/*.files
[06:42] <theCore> ok, I think I will send the patch to upstream, then request a sync
[06:42] <theCore> but for now, I need to sleep
[06:42] <theCore> cya all
[06:47] <LaserJock> hmm, I really need learn how to blog  :/
[06:49] <ajmitch> LaserJock: ?
[06:50] <LaserJock> they're really long and boring
[06:50] <ajmitch> nah, they're not boring
[06:50] <ajmitch> put it on planet already
[06:50] <ajmitch> oh good, it is :)
[06:54] <imbrandon> yea ajmitch where is yours , finaly got LaserJock on it;)
[06:54] <ajmitch> imbrandon: I'm too boring to blog
[06:55] <LaserJock> bah
[06:55] <imbrandon> heh
[06:55] <LaserJock> you're not boring at all
[06:57] <ajmitch> I have nothing to blog about, at least :)
[06:57] <LaserJock> hmm, I think I've often got too much to blog about
[06:57] <LaserJock> I have to watch it
[06:58] <LaserJock> especially after the whole gallium thing
[06:58] <LaserJock> people actually take these planet posts seriously
[06:58] <imbrandon> gallium ?
[06:58] <ajmitch> another reason why I avoid blogging
[06:59] <imbrandon> did you read the last post from ian basicly saying joey was full of sh*t
[07:01] <ajmitch> hm, good post by SynRG about ichthux & ubuntu CE
[07:01] <LaserJock> I thought so
[07:01] <LaserJock> imbrandon: I saw that
[07:02] <LaserJock> imbrandon: last weekend there was a little "incident" with Edubuntu and KDE-Edu over a little project a few of us were working on
[07:02] <ajmitch> imbrandon: no, I didn't see it
[07:02] <imbrandon> ajmitch, its still on p.d.o i think
[07:02] <imbrandon> LaserJock, ahh
[07:03] <LaserJock> it was rather intense there for a couple days
[07:03] <ajmitch> imbrandon: ian murdock?
[07:03] <imbrandon> ajmitch, yea
[07:04] <LaserJock> isn't he the guy who started Debian? or am I thinking of somebody else
[07:04] <imbrandon> ajmitch, http://ianmurdock.com/?p=358
[07:04] <imbrandon> LaserJock, yea is is the deb"ian" in debian
[07:05] <imbrandon> his better half is debbie , e.g the "deb"ian ;)
[07:05] <LaserJock> right, that's what I thought
[07:05] <LaserJock> what does he do these days on Debian?
[07:05] <imbrandon> he works on LSB alot iirc
[07:05] <imbrandon> just like any other maintainer afaik
[07:06] <imbrandon> heh
[07:07] <joejaxx> yipee fluxbuntu was mentioned on planet.ubuntu.com
[07:07] <ajmitch> http://ajmitch.net.nz/~ajmitch/img_0110.jpg
[07:07] <ajmitch> small photo
[07:07] <joejaxx> for not keeping up with ubuntu development haha
[07:08] <LaserJock> where? I didn't see anybody say that :-)
[07:08] <joejaxx> LaserJock: look at the first blog
[07:08] <ajmitch> heh
[07:08] <ajmitch> joejaxx: you mean that shady jordan mantha person?
[07:08] <LaserJock> joejaxx: LaserJock == Jordan Mantha
[07:08] <imbrandon> joejaxx, that IS LaserJock
[07:09] <imbrandon> heh
[07:09] <joejaxx> LaserJock: :)
[07:09] <ajmitch> still shady :)
[07:09] <joejaxx> lol
[07:09] <LaserJock> ajmitch: that's a rather nice view
[07:09] <joejaxx> i wish we could keep up with ubuntu development
[07:09] <joejaxx> :\
[07:09] <ajmitch> LaserJock: that's the view from my bedroom
[07:09] <joejaxx> lol
[07:09] <LaserJock> I didn't say you were not keeping up
[07:09] <ajmitch> those 'large buildings' are the centre of the city
[07:09] <LaserJock> very nice
[07:10] <ajmitch> you can just make out the harbour on the left, and the pacific ocean beyond
[07:11] <joejaxx> LaserJock: well i am going to be making the seeds so that fluxbuntu-meta can pull from them tomorrow
[07:12] <LaserJock> excellent
[07:12] <LaserJock> good progress
[07:13] <joejaxx> thanks
[07:13] <imbrandon> cool pic ajmitch
[07:14] <joejaxx> ajmitch: yeah that looks nice
[07:14] <ajmitch> cheap but effective digital camera
[07:14] <imbrandon> lol
[07:14] <ajmitch> dodgy
[07:14] <joejaxx> lol
[07:16] <LaserJock> hmm, I have stock artwork :-)
[07:17] <LaserJock> I usually never have an install around long enough to care about the background
[07:19] <imbrandon> http://federation.imbrandon.com/ss108.png
[07:20] <LaserJock> argg
[07:20] <imbrandon> thats a good one ;)
[07:20] <LaserJock> darn this european date format
[07:20] <LaserJock> I thought something was dated July 10th
[07:23] <LaserJock> I don't know how that came about but it's really odd to me
[07:24] <imbrandon> heh
[07:24] <LaserJock> "I know, lets transpose the month and the year!" I bet it was some trick to confuse the stupid Americans ;-)
[07:24] <LaserJock> s/year/day/
[07:24] <LaserJock> see, now I'm all confused
[07:25] <ajmitch> sigh
[07:25] <ajmitch> just got an f-spot bug in debian for a rather outdated version
[07:26] <LaserJock> you maintain f-spot in debian?
[07:28] <LaserJock> I think I'd like being a DD if it didn't take so long to go through the NM process
[07:28] <StevenK> LaserJock: ajmitch is just glutton for punishment.
[07:29] <ajmitch> StevenK: same goes for you :P
[07:29] <LaserJock> I like how you get to know a package, and it's more about packaging and less about the next freeze
[07:29] <imbrandon> LaserJock, exactly
[07:29] <ajmitch> since with 2-3 years between releases, who needs to freeze?
[07:29] <joejaxx> lol
[07:30] <LaserJock> If you can avoid the politics I think Debian is a rather nice place to be
[07:30] <ajmitch> it's somewhat depressing seeing what happens in debian at times
[07:30] <StevenK> ajmitch: Agreed.
[07:32] <TheMuso> I'd apply for DD too if it didn't take as long
[07:32] <LaserJock> how long?
[07:32] <imbrandon> haha StevenK but we all not demi gods
[07:32] <StevenK> LaserJock: A week from applying to getting my account.
[07:32] <imbrandon> StevenK, got it in what 5 days ?
[07:33] <TheMuso> StevenK: Hooooow?
[07:33] <joejaxx> StevenK: lol
[07:33] <StevenK> TheMuso: Just lucky, I guess.
[07:33] <ajmitch> nowadays you'd be lucky to get it under a year
[07:33] <StevenK> TheMuso: It was a combination of a lot of factors - I can list them if you like.
[07:33] <TheMuso> StevenK: Nah its fine.
[07:34] <StevenK> TheMuso: It's quicker to explain in person, remind me next time I see you.
[07:34] <TheMuso> um ok
[07:34] <LaserJock> I've never hear of doing it that fast
[07:35] <StevenK> What I hate is how Ubuntu has to change to suit Debian.
[07:36] <LaserJock> I'd rather make changes in Debian in the first place and not have to worry about it again in Ubuntu
[07:36] <ajmitch> TheMuso: it involves money & beer
[07:36] <TheMuso> LaserJock: Ideally that would be great.
[07:36] <StevenK> ajmitch: It does not.
[07:36] <chillywilly> mmmm, beeer
[07:37] <ajmitch> StevenK: close enough
[07:37] <ajmitch> that's why 2 monitors are useful
[07:38] <ajmitch> I can keep the distraction of IRC on one
[07:38] <ajmitch> night LaserJock
[07:38] <imbrandon> gnight LaserJock
[07:38] <chillywilly> night
[07:38] <TheMuso> Night LaserJock.
[07:38] <StevenK> Launchpad needs a "Repeat the current search" button.
[07:38] <LaserJock> I've done enough damage on planet for one night ;-)
[07:38] <ajmitch> LaserJock: time to duck the flames?
[07:38] <TheMuso> StevenK: I don't blame you for avoiding asp.
[07:39] <LaserJock> ajmitch: I doubt flames. I'm thinking more "What the heck is he saying?"
[07:39] <StevenK> TheMuso: Heh. It's for a uni assignment, so I really ought to do it.
[07:41] <joejaxx> goodnight Laser_away :)
[07:42] <joejaxx> imbrandon: i am going to try and start releasing developmental releases in sync with the ubuntu ones
[07:44] <joejaxx> imbrandon: is there a way to know when the ubuntu developmental releases will be released?
[07:44] <ajmitch> joejaxx: it's in the topic
[07:44] <imbrandon> first url in the topic joejaxx
[07:44] <ajmitch> EdgyReleaseSchedule
[07:45] <joejaxx> no not that
[07:45] <joejaxx> i mean future wise :)
[07:45] <joejaxx> that has a list of the current ones
[07:45] <imbrandon> other than that just hang out and learn the way, the next release schedule will be worked out dirring UDS Moutain View
[07:45] <ajmitch> generally every 6 months
[07:46] <joejaxx> ajmitch: imbrandon i mean the developmental releaases
[07:46] <joejaxx> like knots
[07:46] <joejaxx> or flights like there were in dapper
[07:46] <ajmitch> that will be worked out in the future
[07:46] <imbrandon> those are on the release schedule, but thats worked out in UDS
[07:47] <joejaxx> so there is no way to know when edgy beta 2 is coming so i can prepare to release in sync?
[07:48] <ajmitch> there won't be a beta 2
[07:48] <imbrandon> there is no beta 2, but RC is on the schedule for the 19th
[07:48] <joejaxx> imbrandon: ok that is what i meant
[07:48] <joejaxx> :)
[07:52] <joejaxx> so that is a week and a half
[07:52] <joejaxx> ok
[07:52] <joejaxx> bbl
[08:00] <imbrandon> hrm i wonder how hard it would be to make a ubuntu seed and livefs from scratch the "ubuntu way"
[08:00] <imbrandon> somehow i dont think there is doc's about it online
[08:01] <TheMuso> imbrandon: What do you want to do?
[08:01] <imbrandon> TheMuso, just learn how to make a proper deritive ( not just customize a already made cd )
[08:02] <imbrandon> no real "goal"
[08:02] <TheMuso> Fair enough.
[08:02] <TheMuso> It would be nice to know.
[08:02] <imbrandon> yea, at leaste the process behind it all
[08:15] <LaserJock> imbrandon: what do you want to know?
[08:15] <LaserJock> and how "from scratch" do you want to go?
[08:16] <imbrandon> from bootstraping the base install on up
[08:16] <imbrandon> but anystart would be good
[08:16] <LaserJock> hmm, well from scratch you can as Kamion for some scripts they use
[08:17] <LaserJock> the ones I've been involved with started with an existing .iso and then changed it from within
[08:17] <imbrandon> yea i planned to once i got a little more edgucated about it so i dident goto him and say "duh duh can you .,.,. blah blah blah"
[08:17] <nixternal> people are alive this late at night?
[08:17] <LaserJock> as you already have the casper stuff
[08:17] <imbrandon> LaserJock, yea i have customized the iso before
[08:18] <LaserJock> well, there is customized as in change some artwork
[08:18] <nixternal> ya, and he wanted me to go buy a dvd burner so i could try his iso out
[08:18] <LaserJock> and then there is customized like we do with Ichthux
[08:18] <imbrandon> no as in removed oo.o , all the default settings, more packages etc
[08:19] <imbrandon> i did a imbrandon version of kubuntu with no oo.o and koffice instead with all the meadia codecs etc
[08:19] <imbrandon> ;)
[08:19] <imbrandon> plus new artwork ;)
[08:19] <LaserJock> in Icthux we have -deskto, -docs, -default-settings
[08:19] <nixternal> and he tried to burn it to LP
[08:19] <imbrandon> LaserJock, yea but how do you then generate the isos
[08:19] <imbrandon> from those
[08:20] <LaserJock> ok, the basic idea is:
[08:20] <LaserJock> get the .iso
[08:20] <LaserJock> unpack it
[08:20] <imbrandon> oh so the custom way
[08:20] <LaserJock> chroot into the unpacked squashfs
[08:20] <imbrandon> not the ubuntu way
[08:20] <imbrandon> right , yea thats how i did it
[08:20] <LaserJock> well, sort of
[08:20] <LaserJock> it's somewhat in between
[08:20] <imbrandon> ahh
[08:20] <LaserJock> we then change the initrd
[08:21] <LaserJock> the scripts that set up the livecd user
[08:21] <LaserJock> install -desktop, etc. meta packages
[08:21] <LaserJock> in the future though I think we are going to the Ubuntu way
[08:21] <imbrandon> right i'm with you so far
[08:21] <LaserJock> it's more complicated
[08:22] <imbrandon> ok yea i have done that ( the way your doing it now )
[08:22] <LaserJock> but it's a little more satisfying
[08:22] <imbrandon> hehe yea
[08:22] <imbrandon> i'm at the same point
[08:22] <LaserJock> I believe Kamion gave raphink a script
[08:22] <LaserJock> for doing it the Ubuntu way
[08:23] <LaserJock> but there is still quite a bit that uses the Ubuntu infrastructure
[08:23] <imbrandon> cool
[08:23] <ajmitch> the s3kr3t sauce
[08:23] <LaserJock> so it's not easy to just "do it the Ubuntu way"
[08:23] <ajmitch> kamion has stuff in his bzr branches for this
[08:23] <LaserJock> as they use a fair amount of Soyuz magic I think
[08:23] <ajmitch> debian-cd & related stuff
[08:24] <LaserJock> apparently sometime "soon" Soyuz might start supporting derivatives
[08:24] <imbrandon> do they use make-live ?
[08:24] <ajmitch> LaserJock: 'soon' has been said for awhile now
[08:24] <LaserJock> yes
[08:25] <LaserJock> well, it sounded like early 2007
[08:25] <LaserJock> I think Ichthux might be a test derivative
[08:25] <LaserJock> at least the LP guys were interested in that
[08:26] <imbrandon> ;)
[08:26] <imbrandon> well i wouldent mind helping out joejaxx get on his feet ( i dont think i could make a long term commitment to it ) but i dont want to put the time into customizing the iso , it seems to hackish to me
[08:27] <imbrandon> thats one reason for me to learn BUT i would also just liek to "know"
[08:27] <imbrandon> like*
[08:27] <LaserJock> yeah, I know what you mean
[08:27] <LaserJock> we get questions about .iso customization all the time
[08:27] <LaserJock> it'd be nice to have a least some clue
[08:27] <imbrandon> although i do know what you mean, i did do that for my own dapper kubuntu live cd
[08:28] <imbrandon> as far as unpacking the squashfs , the initrd , the package changes etc etc
[08:28] <TheMuso> Then there is the fun of casper.
[08:29] <imbrandon> but thats not really a /good/ solution for repition as i'm sure your finding out with itc*
[08:29] <imbrandon> ( sorry for got the name heh )
[08:30] <LaserJock> actually, it isn't too bad
[08:30] <LaserJock> we have a lot of it automated
[08:30] <imbrandon> cool
[08:31] <LaserJock> we have a standard initrd and a script that updates the manifest files
[08:31] <imbrandon> nice
[08:31] <LaserJock> you spend more time unpacking and packing
[08:32] <imbrandon> yea , that takes a while
[08:32] <LaserJock> and transferring the .iso to mirrors
[08:32] <imbrandon> well not tooooo long but a good while
[08:32] <imbrandon> mostly the repacking
[08:32] <imbrandon> torrents ;)
[08:32] <LaserJock> bah
[08:33] <imbrandon> i thought about making the codec enhanced kubuntu avail via torrent
[08:33] <imbrandon> since its kinda iffy in some places ;)
[08:34] <imbrandon> brb
[08:34] <LaserJock> bah, who needs codecs :-)
[08:34] <LaserJock> people shouldn't be listening to music or watch movies anyway
[08:34] <LaserJock> they should be fixing bugs and contributing packages to REVU
[08:34] <ajmitch> or to Debian
[08:34] <imbrandon> hehe
[08:35] <ajmitch> although I do listen to music while packaging ;)
[08:35] <TheMuso> I listen to music, but its from my own CDs in FLAC format.
[08:35] <imbrandon> yea i dont think i could sit at the computer without tunes cranked
[08:35] <imbrandon> about 70% is from my own cd's 10% from itunes , and the rest from "arround"
[08:36] <imbrandon> heh
[08:36] <LaserJock> I have a lot of .mp3s ripped from CDs
[08:36] <LaserJock> but I convert them to ogg if I play them in linux usually
[08:40] <ajmitch> scary stuff - vista RC2 in vmware
[08:40] <ajmitch> will my computer be powerful enough ? ;)
[08:40] <LaserJock> yucky
[08:41] <ajmitch> oh that's wonderful
[08:41] <ajmitch> it doesn't have a driver for the vmware cd drive
[08:41] <imbrandon> heh
[08:42] <imbrandon> somehow that seems interntional
[08:42] <ajmitch> wouldn't surprise me in the least
[08:42] <ajmitch> I don't really feel like installing it on a real system
[08:42] <LaserJock> yeah, it's like these silly bootcamp people that got all excited when you could dual boot Windows and OS X
[08:43] <imbrandon> i have rc1 on the computer upstairs dualbooting
[08:43] <LaserJock> I couldn't belive you'd want to go down in OS quality ;-)
[08:43] <ajmitch> LaserJock: MS do have some useful ideas
[08:43] <LaserJock> I guess, I just find things work a whole lot better in Ubuntu
[08:44] <ajmitch> of course
[08:44] <ajmitch> I don't plan to use it for any real work
[08:44] <imbrandon> ;)
[08:44] <LaserJock> if I was more into different areas of computing I'm sure I could see more uses
[08:45] <LaserJock> but mostly I want ssh, web browser, good printing, laptop support, and good music/video stuff
[08:45] <LaserJock> all of which Ubuntu does much better
[08:47] <LaserJock> my wife even seems to like it after I got here FF bookmarks back and the form completion set up
[08:47] <LaserJock> *her
[08:49] <imbrandon> ;)
[08:50] <LaserJock> I wonder what the vista hardware requirements are
[08:51] <LaserJock> I read about it a long time ago for longhorn
[08:51] <LaserJock> yes, well
[08:51] <LaserJock> I took my shower and the wife went to bed
[08:51] <LaserJock> I'm supposed to be working
[08:51] <StevenK> IRC is work, isn't it?
[08:51] <StevenK> Isn't it?!
[08:52] <ajmitch> yes, StevenK, of course it is...
[08:52] <StevenK> Heh
[08:52] <LaserJock> have any of you used dak?
[08:53] <ajmitch> not that brave
[08:53] <LaserJock> do you see it as really very useful for the normal user/sys admin?
[08:53] <LaserJock> it seems a bit overkill to me
[08:54] <imbrandon> LaserJock, falcon is alot easier for normal every day repos ( less than 300 packages )
[08:54] <LaserJock> falcon? I've not heard of that
[08:54] <LaserJock> I've seen reprepo and mini-dinstall
[08:55] <imbrandon> Seveas made it for his repos but me and a few others use it now, its really nice, handles mirrors auto etc etc etc
[08:55] <StevenK> LaserJock: No. dak is .... hardcore
[08:55] <StevenK> reprepro and mini-dinstall both suck, I've tried to use both of them.
[08:56] <StevenK> We use apt-move at work, and that's a little archaic.
[08:56] <LaserJock> StevenK: what do you suggest to people then?
[08:56] <LaserJock> or do they all just suck ;-)
[08:56] <StevenK> dpkg-scanpackages
[08:56] <imbrandon> falcon you just make your /pool and run falcon update sync, all done
[08:56] <imbrandon> ;)
[08:57] <LaserJock> imbrandon: is that publically available?
[08:57] <Lathiat> apt-cache show falcon
[08:57] <imbrandon> LaserJock, yea check any of Seveas's mirros ( http://seveas.imbrandon.com ) in the extras component , or in edgy+1 universe hehe
[08:57] <imbrandon> mirrors*
[08:57] <LaserJock> hmm
[08:58] <imbrandon> http://seveas.imbrandon.com/pool/dapper-seveas/extras/falcon_1.5.4-0ubuntu1_all.deb
[09:00] <imbrandon> supports multi arch,multi components ( even one for each app if you want )
[09:00] <imbrandon> etc etc etc, and a good doc
[09:00] <imbrandon> to get ya going, but it takes a whole 5 minutes to setup
[09:00] <imbrandon> real simple to setup and maintain ( and its python heh )
[09:01] <imbrandon> and if you find bugs its easy to poke seveas to fix it hehe
[09:10] <imbrandon> LaserJock, have you seen http://live.debian.net/wiki/ISO_Howto
[09:13] <LaserJock> hmm, interesting
[09:13] <imbrandon> hrm and it links to http://live.debian.net/wiki/live-package telling howto do the casper and all
[09:14] <ajmitch> ok, I think I've got the cdrom driver needed - apparantly it's partly a vmware problem
[09:14] <ajmitch> :)
[09:14] <imbrandon> hehe
[09:15] <ajmitch> we'll see if I can use it ;)
[09:15] <ajmitch> hello Hobbsee
[09:16] <imbrandon> heya Hobbsee
[09:16] <LaserJock> Hobbsee!
[09:16] <Hobbsee> heya ajmitch
[09:17] <Hobbsee> hi imbrandon
[09:17] <Hobbsee> LaserJock!
[09:18] <siretart> morning
[09:19] <Hobbsee> hi siretart
[09:19] <imbrandon> moins siretart
[09:19] <siretart> huhu Hobbsee, hi imbrandon. heyho ajmitch :)
[09:20] <ajmitch> hey siretart, how are you?
[09:21] <siretart> thanks, fine
[09:21] <siretart> and you
[09:21] <siretart> currently doing my email
[09:22] <siretart> ajmitch: we still need 2 UVF members agreeing for requests, no?
[09:22] <TheMuso> Hey Hobbsee.
[09:22] <Hobbsee> hi TheMuso
[09:22] <TheMuso> How goes it?
[09:23] <Hobbsee> it goes to work soon :(
[09:23] <TheMuso> Ah that sucks.
[09:24] <siretart> does Martin Juergens irc? do anyone know him?
[09:25] <ajmitch> siretart: yes, we need 2 approvals afaik
[09:26] <siretart> I was a bit puzzled if we require 2 advocates for complete new packages from marillat as well
[09:27] <ajmitch> hm
[09:27] <ajmitch> probably yes
[09:27] <siretart> I assume so. and this martin juergens has filed quite some request for such packages
[09:27] <ajmitch> gtk2-formfactory, etc?
[09:28] <siretart> yepp
[09:29] <siretart> + anyevent + eventrpc
[09:29] <ajmitch> right, I saw them on my wade through unmet deps
[09:45] <StevenK> ajmitch: Where's your list of unmetdeps?
[09:45] <LaserJock> in his vast brain
[09:45] <StevenK> Heh
[09:46] <StevenK> Probably stored in a text file in his tmpfs
[09:46] <highvoltage> hi. it /opt/ltsp could be placed somewhere else, with FHS in mind, where would you put it? /usr/share/ltsp?
[09:46] <highvoltage> s/FHS/FSH
[09:46] <LaserJock> hmm, I might actually go with /var perhaps
[09:47] <highvoltage> as in, /var/lib/ltsp?
[09:47] <LaserJock> maybe just /var/ltsp
[09:47] <ajmitch> http://ajmitch.net.nz/debuild/ubuntu/unmet/unmet.txt
[09:48] <ajmitch> it hasn't been updated today
[09:48] <LaserJock> the thing with ltsp is that it changes, right?
[09:48] <ajmitch> & wsa annotated with a few comments
[09:48] <highvoltage> LaserJock: usually, with Ubuntu, the LTSP chroot is build from scratch at installation
[09:48] <highvoltage> LaserJock: but for tuXlabs I want to make a prebuild chroot and put it into a package
[09:49] <highvoltage> LaserJock: I think once the chroot exists it won't change much
[09:49] <LaserJock> if it's static it could go in /usr/share I suppose
[09:50] <highvoltage> a user might chroot into the environment and add/remove stuff though
[09:50] <LaserJock> that's not so good for /usr/share/
[09:50] <LaserJock> or a package for that matter
[09:50] <Yagisan> highvoltage, from experience users do chroot in to change things
[09:51] <LaserJock> dpkg likes to keep track of files
[09:51] <Yagisan> highvoltage, considering it could even be a differnet distro - perhaps /opt really is the best place for it
[09:51] <highvoltage> /opt is nice because then it is also consistent with upstrem ltsp
[09:52] <highvoltage> but I remember ogra once saying that's it's not the ideal place to have it
[09:52] <StevenK> Policy forbids packages to touch /opt.
[09:52] <highvoltage> he mentioned where it would have been if we had a choice but I've forgotten :)
[09:52] <highvoltage> yes, I did that previously and lintian gave lots and lots of warnings for each file :)
[09:52] <Yagisan> StevenK, policy doesn't consider a package might install a distro - which is what ltsp does
[09:53] <StevenK> Of course not, there's no precedent for it
[09:53] <Yagisan> there is now ...
[09:53] <StevenK> Then bugs against Policy should be filed
[09:53] <highvoltage> what if I put a tarball in the package, and the postinst would extract it?
[09:53] <highvoltage> that's a terrible hack, isn't it?
[09:54] <Yagisan> highvoltage, it is. your ltsp - is it Ubuntu based ? if so - perhaps script it to download and install in the postinst ?
[09:55] <LaserJock> where will the tarball extract to?
[09:55] <highvoltage> LaserJock: I guess that could safely extract to /opt?
[09:56] <LaserJock> yeah
[09:56] <LaserJock> are you packaging it to avoid bandwith usage, i.e. computers without internet or bad internet connections?
[09:57] <highvoltage> that, and to save installation time
[09:57] <highvoltage> builting the ltsp chroot is quite time consuming atm
[09:58] <highvoltage> I'd also like a nice and quick way for users to add ltsp, and remove it again
[09:58] <highvoltage> well, more for our technicians in the end than the end-users, I suppose
[10:03] <Yagisan> highvoltage, takes about 5-10 minutes to build the ltsp chroot here (all packages are in the cache so doesn't include download time)
[10:04] <highvoltage> can you currently build a chroot from the live cd install too?
[10:04] <highvoltage> extracting the tarball only takes about 2 minutes here :)
[10:05] <highvoltage> I think I'll take the approach of using a tarball, extracting to /opt, and when upgrading LTSP, the old /opt/ltsp will just be removed before a new tarball is extracted there.
[10:06] <highvoltage> or not... sorry, I think I'll think about it and ask around some more :)
[10:06] <highvoltage> Yagisan, LaserJock, StevenK: thanks for your input and insight
[10:06] <LaserJock> so you wipe out people's existing chroot upon upgrade?
[10:06] <LaserJock> it's not a simple problem that's for sure
[10:08] <highvoltage> LaserJock: that's what I thought about just after pressing enter after I mentioned that
[10:08] <highvoltage> the best way really seems to be how ubuntu currently does it, but this will be a problem that red hat, suse, etc will have to deal with too while they use the ubuntu ltsp chroot, until they have their own meukow sorted out.
[10:09] <highvoltage> I don't expect our users to /really/ change the chroot
[10:10] <highvoltage> those who add packages could perhaps do a --get-selections and do a dselect-upgrade in the new chroot
[10:10] <highvoltage> I'm sure ogra will also have some useful insight :)
[10:11] <LaserJock> yes
[11:38] <ajmitch> \sh_away: wine UVF approved, you going to do the update?
[11:40] <tepsipakki> ajmitch: libpam-{heimdal,krb5}_2.4-1 is now in sid ;)
[11:42] <ajmitch> ok
[11:42] <ajmitch> update the bug reports, reject the sync request if it hasn't gone through
[11:44] <tepsipakki> ie. make a new UVF-request?
[11:45] <ajmitch> you'd need to
[11:49] <tepsipakki> okay
[11:56] <ktinga> Ey?
[11:57] <ktinga> Hellor?
[12:37] <sladen> liatm: yup!
[02:37] <sivang> ajmitch: you're recent changes to libburn now made it usable? :)
[02:37] <sivang> ajmitch: (been just reading teh changlog)
[03:28] <bddebian> Heya gang
[03:50] <matid> Hello. Any MIT student here?
[05:04] <bddebian> Heya Yagisan
[05:05] <Yagisan> bddebian, how have you been ?
[05:05] <bddebian> OK thx, you?
[05:08] <Yagisan> not too bad. had some interesting experiences
[05:08] <Yagisan> right now I'm researching how to convert my package from a single binary into a multiple binary
[05:08] <StevenK> Add more stanzas to debian/control and brutally hack debian/rules
[05:09] <tseng> dh_install woo
[05:10] <Yagisan> cool thanks. should be easier then it was shoving my CFLAGS down Cmakes throat when I updated earlier today
[05:12] <Yagisan> do we have a policy on plugin names ? libXYZ or baseapp-XYZ ?
[05:12] <tseng> yes
[05:13] <tseng> its very strict, look it up
[05:13] <Yagisan> I'm looking. probably in the wrong place, but I'll find it.
[05:14] <tseng> http://dancer.debian.net/~dancer/column/libpkg-guide/libpkg-guide.html
[05:14] <tseng> enjoy
[05:16] <Yagisan> tseng, thank you. I was indeed not looking at the right file
[05:17] <jekil> hi
[05:22] <Yagisan> tseng, thanks. looks like I have a bit to digest to see how to best apply that. O_o
[05:23] <tseng> yes.
[05:23] <tseng> its serious business
[05:24] <Yagisan> tseng, I do know that nothing else will use the plugins, so that at least makes it easier for me
[05:33] <Yagisan> tseng, none of the plugins have a SONAME version. Will that be a problem ?
[05:36] <tseng> Yagisan: possibly
[05:37] <tseng> if yo uwant to treat them as libraries
[05:37] <tseng> if they are plugins to a single app, I guess it doesnt matter
[05:38] <Yagisan> tseng, they are for a single application (no one yet has taken the challenge of writing another engine for them). Thanks for your advice.
[05:39] <tseng> i wouldnt package them as libraries if they are not
[05:39] <tseng> i would package them as things that happen to be shared objects
[05:39] <tseng> yeah?
[05:41] <Yagisan> yeah - that looks best for now
[06:20] <Toadstool> good morning everybody
[06:27] <crimsun> 'morning Toadstool
[06:27] <joejaxx> goodmorning Toadstool
[06:27] <joejaxx> hey crimsun
[06:28] <crimsun> hi joejaxx
[06:30] <Toadstool> hey crimsun, joejaxx
[06:31] <joejaxx> you know what i found out?
[06:32] <joejaxx> the debian way of packaging is not necessarily easy
[06:33] <joejaxx> but i realy like it
[06:33] <joejaxx> really*
[06:33] <joejaxx> doing everything manually
[06:33] <joejaxx> instead of having a script do it
[07:17] <superm1> joejaxx, there is a limited about of automation you can get for your packaging via debhelper or cdbs
[07:17] <superm1> if you haven't read the ubuntu packaging guide, you should take a look
[07:18] <joejaxx> superm1: i do not want the automation
[07:18] <superm1> well debhelper just helps to build a skeleton
[07:18] <superm1> for the packaging
[07:18] <superm1> its a good start
[07:18] <joejaxx> i am happy with the debian new maintainer's method :)
[07:20] <Laser_away> they use debhelper I believe
[07:20] <superm1> Hi LaserJock
[07:20] <joejaxx> i do not remember ever running that command
[07:20] <joejaxx> :\
[07:20] <superm1> moot point then if that was the case
[07:21] <LaserJock> what command?
[07:21] <LaserJock> dh_make?
[07:21] <kristog> yes the new maintainer  guide uses debhelper
[07:22] <joejaxx> it does?
[07:22] <LaserJock> yes
[07:22] <joejaxx> interesting
[07:23] <LaserJock> you really do want to use debhelper at least
[07:23] <kristog> http://www.us.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/ch-dreq.it.html#s-rules
[07:23] <LaserJock> otherwise you are making too much work for yourself
[07:23] <kristog> joejaxx, http://www.us.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/ch-dreq.en.html#s-rules
[07:24] <joejaxx> kristog: ahh ok
[07:24] <joejaxx> pbuilder?
[07:25] <kristog> pbuilder is another tool
[07:25] <joejaxx> kristog: that is not on the DNMG is it?
[07:25] <kristog> LaserJock, the ubuntu pkg differs to the debian guide?
[07:25] <kristog> what you mean with DNMG?
[07:25] <joejaxx> Debian New Maintainers Guide
[07:26] <kristog> yes it is
[07:26] <superm1> it has a few ubuntu specific things in it
[07:26] <LaserJock> kristog: no, I wrote an Ubuntu Packaging Guide
[07:26] <superm1> and explains how to use revu
[07:26] <superm1> oh LaserJock you wrote it?  Didn't realize that.  props, great guide
[07:26] <kristog> LaserJock, cool :) url?
[07:27] <JohnnyMast> whats the revu site again ?
[07:27] <kristog> (i don't see it in the topic)(sorry)
[07:27] <LaserJock> well, I had help and pulled from many sources
[07:27] <LaserJock> !packagingguide
[07:27] <ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
[07:27] <LaserJock> !REVU
[07:27] <ubotu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
[07:27] <LaserJock> hmm
[07:27] <JohnnyMast> thaks laser :_
[07:27] <LaserJock> that should also point to revu.tauware.de
[07:27] <joejaxx> ahh it ok
[07:27] <joejaxx> is*
[07:27] <joejaxx> -ok
[07:29] <LaserJock> the packaging guide is also shipped with Dapper and Edgy in the help system
[07:30] <LaserJock> for the occasions you aren't online ;-)
[08:24] <lupine_85> are there any plans to package IceWeasel?
[08:24] <lupine_85> http://www.gnu.org/software/gnuzilla/
[08:58] <imbrandon> YESS !! new hdd just showed up, no more laptop only for me !!!
[08:58] <ryanakca> lol
[08:59] <gnomefreak> hey guys im using cdbs and during the dbuild im getting secret key not available but the key and all files are in ~/.gnupg
[08:59] <gnomefreak> how can i get it to sign the package
[09:00] <gnomefreak> im assuming importing my key again wont work
[09:00] <crimsun> are you using seahorse?
[09:01] <gnomefreak> no
[09:01] <gnomefreak> i dont think i installed it
[09:01] <gnomefreak> it is installed
[09:02] <gnomefreak> is this a bad thing?
[09:03] <crimsun> "this" being...?
[09:03] <kristog> no
[09:03] <kristog> gnomefreak, i use seahorse
[09:03] <gnomefreak> seahorse
[09:03] <kristog> use it :)
[09:04] <gnomefreak> debuild -S -sa  how do i use it with that command
[09:04] <gnomefreak> lol
[09:05] <kristog> you don't have to use it directly
[09:05] <gnomefreak> http://gnomefreak.pastebin.com//802055 is the full eror
[09:05] <gnomefreak> error
[09:26] <ajmitch> morning
[09:26] <kristog> morning ajmitch
[09:28] <Adri2000> there is no archive admin here? :/
[09:28] <tseng> its a weekend
[09:29] <tseng> no.
[09:56] <Snake[Away] > Hey guys, if anyone has a moment, could you tell me, should I start building on Edgy or Dapper? I havn't built anything before, and i'm following this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HowToBuildDebianPackagesFromScratch -- Good or bad?
[09:56] <Snake[Away] > or is there a better
[09:57] <Snake[Away] > Because it seems that one is a bit dated (horay)
[09:57] <Snake[Away] > hoary*
[09:57] <crimsun> Build on Dapper if your target is Dapper. Build on Edgy if your target is Edgy.
[09:57] <crimsun> where "build on foo" means "use a foo pbuilder"
[09:58] <Snake[Away] > Oh so I dont need to install the diffrent OSes or whatever?
[09:58] <Snake[Away] > I can build for edgy on dapper?
[09:58] <crimsun> certainly.
[09:58] <Snake[Away] > great
[09:58] <Snake[Away] > is it more difficult? heh
[09:58] <crimsun> pbuilder? It's a cinch.
[09:58] <ajmitch> it'll be harder to test afterwards though
[09:58] <ajmitch> hello crimsun
[09:58] <ajmitch> how's it going?
[09:58] <crimsun> hi ajmitch
[09:58] <Snake[Away] > Ah good point ajmitch ..
[09:59] <crimsun> not bad, yourself?
[09:59] <ajmitch> alright
[09:59] <Snake[Away] > Im sure I can find someone on edgy that can test though
[09:59] <BazziR> Snake: what sort of software are you building?
[09:59] <Snake> crimsun: do you have a more updated guide than the one I linked to? (I assume times have changed?)
[09:59] <Snake> BazziR: Not sure ye
[09:59] <Snake> t
[10:00] <crimsun> Snake: the packaging guide on help.ubuntu.com?
[10:00] <Snake> Just a few practice packages and whatnot
[10:00] <Snake> crimsun: well the one I linked to was on the wiki, but like I said, its dated from hoary
[10:00] <Snake> Ohhhh
[10:00] <Q-FUNK> Snake: the methodology remains the same regardless of which release you make your packages for.
[10:00] <Snake> Okay :)
[10:01] <BazziR> http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html <- I think that#s the most recent/comlete guide
[10:01] <Snake> This is what I was lookin for: https://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html :)
[10:01] <Snake> BazziR: thanks hehe
[10:01] <BazziR> :o
[10:01] <Snake> is the KDE/Gnome building the same way?
[10:02] <BazziR> you mean having those as dependencies?
[10:02] <BazziR> or using them as desktops generally?
[10:02] <Snake> No I mean I don't have to have a diffrent program or somethign to build for KDE
[10:02] <Snake> then ahve a diffrent program to build for gnome
[10:02] <Snake> right?
[10:02] <BazziR> no it's all console-based
[10:02] <Q-FUNK> he means if there's any extra work involved in building GUI apps.
[10:02] <Snake> For the people to run on their systems
[10:03] <BazziR> ah :)
[10:03] <Snake> Im assume I just need the libs?
[10:03] <BazziR> Snake: you just have to specify what libs are required and they will be downloaded and installed automatically when needed (if I understand you correctly)
[10:04] <Snake> Bazzi: Basically
[10:04] <Snake> HEh
[10:05] <Q-FUNK> Snake: packaging desktop software, or perl or python modules, requires paying attention to a few more things than when pacaking simple commandline tools.
[10:06] <crimsun> Snake: psst, netboot.
[10:07] <Snake> crimsun: where! lol
[10:07] <crimsun> dapper? edgy?
[10:08] <Snake> Q-FUNK: is it much more difficult than building the packages?
[10:08] <Snake> crimsun: Dapper *.1 if possible?
[10:08] <Snake> Q-FUNK: building the source** (Sorry)
[10:08] <crimsun> which arch?
[10:08] <Snake> crimsun: gnome
[10:09] <crimsun> no, I mean i386, x86_64, ppc, sparc, ...
[10:09] <Snake> Oh my bad
[10:09] <crimsun> although having a gnome "arch" would be ...
[10:09] <Snake> x386
[10:09] <Snake> :-P
[10:09] <Snake> grrr
[10:09] <Snake> i386
[10:09] <crimsun> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/dapper/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/
[10:10] <Snake> wow thanks crimsun
[10:10] <Snake> I never knew about that
[10:19] <Snake> " lintian and linda
[10:19] <Snake>     dissect Debian packages and report bugs and Policy violations. They contain automated checks for many aspects of Debian Policy as well as for common errors.
[10:20] <Snake> "
[10:20] <Snake> What do they mean policy violations?
[10:20] <Adri2000> the debian and ubuntu policies about packaging
[10:21] <Snake> Which include?
[10:21] <Toadstool> Snake: http://www.us.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/
[10:22] <Snake> ahhh
[10:36] <Snake> crimsun: uhh if it says it cant retrive a package....should I hit continue or go back
[10:36] <Snake> they both sound bad
[10:37] <crimsun> which package is it failing on? (switch to another console to see)
[10:38] <Snake> a whole bunch
[10:38] <Snake> I keep getting it over and over
[10:38] <Snake> and now the install failed
[10:38] <lupine_85> is this installing edgy?
[10:39] <Snake> dapper
[10:39] <lupine_85> hmm
[10:39] <crimsun> if the netboot image is outdated, that'll happen
[10:39] <Snake> I just got the one you linked me to
[10:40] <crimsun> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/dapper-updates/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/   looks more current.
[10:40] <Snake> oh ok
[11:00] <Toadstool> hmm, looks like bug 63718 is a libsexy bug instead of a xchat one...
[11:00] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 63718 in xchat "xchat spellcheck bad interperatation" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63718
[11:02] <Snake> woah...
[11:02] <Snake> bug 63718
[11:02] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 63718 in xchat "xchat spellcheck bad interperatation" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63718
[11:02] <Snake> awesome
[11:03] <Toadstool> :)
[11:03] <Snake> I thought Ubugtu was just a joke and fun bot :)
[11:09] <imbrandon> woot buildbox it almost 100% back to its former self, just a fwe more things to tweak out
[11:11] <cvacubo> Good evening. I need help. I want to help Kubuntu Community and I create Lila icons deb package. But I don't know what i need to do for that package upload to repository for testing. Maybe you can help me with that ?
[11:12] <crimsun> imbrandon will be more than willing to show you!
[11:12] <imbrandon> hehe
[11:13] <imbrandon> cvacubo, you have already made the package ?
[11:14] <cvacubo> imbrandon, yes.
[11:14] <imbrandon> cvacubo, have you ever used REVU ? or know about it? ( if not i can explain it ) but that would be the first step after the package is made
[11:14] <cvacubo> But I don't know what I need to do ? I need to upload that package to REVU ?
[11:14] <imbrandon> if its new to ubuntu
[11:14] <imbrandon> cvacubo, yes REVU would be the next step
[11:15] <cvacubo> I read about REVU, but I don't understand, I need dput my package and thats all ???
[11:15] <cvacubo> Or what ?
[11:15] <imbrandon> well first you have to join the LP team
[11:15] <imbrandon> have you done that ?
[11:15] <cvacubo> Yes, this package new for Ubuntu. This package suggested in Kubuntu.org
[11:16] <imbrandon> ok add your self to this team http://tinyurl.com/fgpgy
[11:16] <cvacubo> LP Team? This is a Launchpad ?
[11:16] <imbrandon> yes
[11:17] <imbrandon> once you are on that team then you/me/we can ping a REVU admin to sync the keyring, then you can dput to REVU
[11:17] <imbrandon> for a MOTU to review it and upload
[11:18] <Toadstool> cvacubo: you will need a GPG key too
[11:18] <cvacubo> imbrandon, one moment please. I want check my Launchpad login...
[11:18] <imbrandon> cvacubo, yes i dident look at your LP page but if you dont have a GPG key you will need to create one and upload that to your LP profile
[11:18] <imbrandon> first
[11:19] <cvacubo> imbrandon, I have GPG key and send this key to Launchpad. And I joined to "Contributors of packages for ubuntu universe"
[11:20] <cvacubo> Yes I uploaded in my LP profile and signed Code of conduct
[11:20] <imbrandon> ok good
[11:20] <cvacubo> My LP login Artem Abramyan. Nickname Cvacubo
[11:20] <imbrandon> now we need to ask a REVU admin to sync the keyring, aj^mitch is probably not arround right now but siretart might be
[11:20] <imbrandon> siretart, ping
[11:21] <imbrandon> ( if not i'll look on the list to see whom else is a REVU admin )
[11:21] <cvacubo> siretart, ping ??? What is this ? Sorry, my english is so bad
[11:21] <crimsun> (to note raphink, gauvain, and sispoty are also admins)
[11:21] <crimsun> (and mez, too)
[11:21] <imbrandon> cvacubo, it means i'm trying to get his attentian
[11:21] <imbrandon> attention*
[11:22] <Toadstool> gauvin is a REVU admin? I didn't know that, good news :p
[11:22] <Toadstool> *gauvain even
[11:22] <imbrandon> i have a tiber login but i have no idea how to sync the keyring heh
[11:22] <crimsun> Toadstool: yep
[11:22] <cvacubo> After sync the keyring I need to dput my package ?
[11:23] <imbrandon> cvacubo, yup
[11:23] <cvacubo> imbrandon, thanks a lot.
[11:23] <imbrandon> then it will be on the list for all MOTU's to revu and give you input or possibly upload
[11:23] <imbrandon> ( note the universe is in a freeze right now but its still good to go though the processes and get it ready )
[11:23] <cvacubo> Now I need find REVU admins and ask for sync keyring ?
[11:24] <imbrandon> cvacubo, yes , all have been "pinged" e.g. their name hilighted so next chance one of them gets it will be done
[11:24] <imbrandon> best to just wait arround and chat/learn/idle/etc , its just waiting now
[11:25] <cvacubo> imbrandon, ok, thanks a lot for help... thanks
[11:26] <imbrandon> np, i'm gonna go back to finishing up my install if you need something just say my name , my IRC lcient beeps at me so if i'm on the computer i'll answer ;)
[11:26] <imbrandon> if not there are lots of helpfull folks in here
[11:26] <imbrandon> s/lcient/client
[11:27] <crimsun> just set up a script to flood his irc nick every two minutes.
[11:27] <imbrandon> lol
[11:28] <imbrandon> actualy my client uses "/usr/share/sounds/KDE_Beep_Ahem.wav" ( probably only present if you have KDE installed )
[11:28] <imbrandon> heh
[11:44] <siretart> cvacubo: imbrandon. huh?
[11:45] <crimsun> they need a keyring sync for revu
[11:45] <imbrandon> siretart, can you please sync the REVU keyring so cvacubo can have upload rights
[11:47] <siretart> oh, sure. just triggered a sync
[11:47] <imbrandon> thanks
[11:51] <siretart> cvacubo: done, you should be able to upload now
[12:05] <pianoboy3333> Are you guys gonna make packages for firefox rc2 and gaim2.0.0 b4?
[12:05] <pianoboy3333> for edgy?
[12:06] <crimsun> pianoboy3333: no, because those are main packages.
[12:06] <crimsun> they have nothing to do with universe.
[12:07] <pianoboy3333> oh
[12:07] <pianoboy3333> crimsun: do you think that the ubuntu guys are gonna package them?
[12:07] <crimsun> I don't know.
[12:08] <pianoboy3333> kk....