=== j_ack [n=rudi@p508D8782.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === poningru [n=poningru@ip70-171-62-28.ga.at.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === zul [n=chuck@CPE0006258ec6c1-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [12:59] @schedule [12:59] Schedule for Etc/UTC: 09 Oct 14:00: MOTU | 10 Oct 20:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 20:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 12:00: Community Council | 18 Oct 12:00: Edubuntu [12:59] @schedule montreal [12:59] Schedule for America/Montreal: 09 Oct 10:00: MOTU | 10 Oct 16:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 16:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 08:00: Community Council | 18 Oct 08:00: Edubuntu [01:00] @schedule chicago [01:00] Schedule for America/Chicago: 09 Oct 09:00: MOTU | 10 Oct 15:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 15:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 07:00: Community Council | 18 Oct 07:00: Edubuntu === tonyyarusso [n=anthony@d235-162-0.home1.cgocable.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === tonyyaru1so [n=anthony@d235-240-148.home1.cgocable.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === freeflying|away [n=freeflyi@ubuntu/member/freeflying] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === j_ack [n=rudi@p508D8782.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === licio [n=licio@ubuntu/member/licio] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === j_ack [n=rudi@p508D8782.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === j_ack [n=rudi@p508D8782.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === amachu [n=amachu@125.22.79.150] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === rodarvus [n=rodarvus@ubuntu/member/rodarvus] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === zul_ [n=chuck@CPE0006258ec6c1-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Linuturk [n=Linuturk@12.11.93.98] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Leaving"] === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ogra [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [04:56] @schedule Shanghai [04:56] Schedule for Asia/Shanghai: 09 Oct 22:00: MOTU | 11 Oct 04:00: Technical Board | 12 Oct 04:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 20:00: Community Council | 18 Oct 20:00: Edubuntu === Huahua [n=hua_@122.0.228.144] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === freeflying [n=freeflyi@61.190.64.118] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === tonyyarusso [n=anthony@d235-240-148.home1.cgocable.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === tonyyarusso [n=anthony@d235-240-148.home1.cgocable.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === tomveens [n=tomveens@ztn-c-1566b.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === Burgundavia [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === freeflying [n=freeflyi@ubuntu/member/freeflying] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === highvolt1ge [n=jono@196.1.61.13] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === tonyyaru1so [n=anthony@d235-240-148.home1.cgocable.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === jenda [n=jenda@ubuntu/member/jenda] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === robitaille [n=daniel@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Fujitsu [n=Fujitsu@ubuntu/member/fujitsu] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Lure [n=lure@ubuntu/member/lure] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === DBO [n=DBO@unaffiliated/dbo] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === dholbach [n=daniel@i577B2173.versanet.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [08:58] @time europe [08:59] @time berlin [08:59] Current time in Europe/Berlin: October 09 2006, 08:59:12 - Next meeting: MOTU in 7 hours 0 minutes [08:59] hi siretart :) [08:59] heyho ajmitch! [08:59] @schedule rome [08:59] Schedule for Europe/Rome: 09 Oct 16:00: MOTU | 10 Oct 22:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 22:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 14:00: Community Council | 18 Oct 14:00: Edubuntu === dous [n=dous@ubuntu/member/dous] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === freeflying|away [n=freeflyi@ubuntu/member/freeflying] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === dholbach hugs siretart === siretart waves back [09:07] :) === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Burgundavia [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mvo [n=egon@p54A672BB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ogra [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Burgundavia [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Tonio__ [n=tonio@6.8.100-84.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [10:47] @schdule Israel [10:47] @schedule Israel [10:47] Schedule for Israel: 09 Oct 16:00: MOTU | 10 Oct 22:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 22:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 14:00: Community Council | 18 Oct 14:00: Edubuntu === jenda [n=jenda@ubuntu/member/jenda] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mvo [n=egon@p54A672BB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === lucas [n=lucas@ubuntu/member/lucas] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [11:20] @schedule paris [11:20] Schedule for Europe/Paris: 09 Oct 16:00: MOTU | 10 Oct 22:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 22:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 14:00: Community Council | 18 Oct 14:00: Edubuntu [11:20] ok, won't make it. [11:38] @now [11:38] Current time in Etc/UTC: October 09 2006, 09:38:35 - Next meeting: MOTU in 4 hours 21 minutes === linfeng [n=linfeng@220.165.229.140] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ogra [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === pradeep [n=pradeep@59.92.95.125] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === gnomefreak [n=gnomefre@ubuntu/member/gnomefreak] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === finalbeta [n=finalbet@d5152A68A.access.telenet.be] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === geser [n=michael@dialin110158.justdsl.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Burgundavia [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === rodarvus [n=rodarvus@ubuntu/member/rodarvus] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === dous [n=dous@ubuntu/member/dous] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === jsgotangco [n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === zul [n=chuck@CPE0006258ec6c1-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === JanC [n=janc@lugwv/member/JanC] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === freeflying [n=freeflyi@220.192.131.52] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [02:46] @schedule Shanghai [02:46] Schedule for Asia/Shanghai: 09 Oct 22:00: MOTU | 11 Oct 04:00: Technical Board | 12 Oct 04:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 20:00: Community Council | 18 Oct 20:00: Edubuntu === ogra [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === dous [n=dous@ubuntu/member/dous] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === licio [n=licio@ubuntu/member/licio] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === sistpoty [n=sistpoty@ubuntu/member/sistpoty] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === yarddog [n=kibozo@unaffiliated/yarddog] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === gnomefreak [n=gnomefre@ubuntu/member/gnomefreak] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === tony_ [n=tony@60.27.94.21] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === freeflying [n=freeflyi@220.205.120.93] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ranf [n=ralfm@dslb-084-058-153-114.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === rmjb [n=richard@cuscon20543.tstt.net.tt] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === sfllaw [i=sfllaw@debian/developer/coleSLAW] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: MOTU | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 10 Oct 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 11 Oct 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 12:00 UTC: Community Council | 18 Oct 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu [03:55] @schedule Shanghai [03:55] Schedule for Asia/Shanghai: Current meeting: MOTU | 11 Oct 04:00: Technical Board | 12 Oct 04:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 20:00: Community Council | 18 Oct 20:00: Edubuntu [03:56] so, MOTU meeting is now? === TheMuso [n=luke@ubuntu/member/themuso] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [03:56] anytime soon, yes [03:57] hey here === j_ack [n=rudi@p508DB676.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [03:58] hi all === lionelp [n=lionel@ip-128.net-82-216-65.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Gloubiboulga [n=gauvain@ubuntu/member/gloubiboulga] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === tortoise_ [n=tortoise@194.164.140.64] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [04:00] hello [04:00] hi [04:01] OK everybody - welcome to the MOTU meeting [04:01] I can only stay ten minutes :/ [04:01] We try to keep this meeting short, as we all want to get back to fixing the last bugs in Edgy. :-) [04:01] Our agenda is quite short, it's over here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings [04:01] First point on the agenda is: "Prepare check lists for Universe/Multiverse for release." [04:02] In the previous release cycles we always had lists of things we wanted to get done === Burgundavia [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === minghua [n=minghua@danube.mems.rice.edu] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [04:02] like the python transition, the unmet dependency lists, ftbfs lists and other transitions [04:02] not to forget: Bug lists! [04:02] What do we have on the plate for Edgy release? [04:03] We ideally need to get a FTBFS list, 'cause an unmet deps. list is trivial... === StevenK [n=stevenk@14.5.233.220.exetel.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [04:03] Ok [04:03] 1) UnmetDeps list - easy to do, we can massfile bugs on that one [04:03] Yup. [04:04] 2) for the FTBFS list we can take the list of failed builds on launchpad [04:04] because I think that Adam (infinity) is too busy to do an archive rebuild at this stage. [04:04] dholbach, not really. A lot of things haven't been built in ages. [04:04] Yeah, true. [04:04] if anybody else has a feasible idea on that one, I'm all ears. :-) === sfllaw [i=sfllaw@debian/developer/coleSLAW] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [04:05] Do we have any open transitions we don't get by looking at the unmet deps list? === givr1 [n=Florent@APuteaux-152-1-17-31.w82-120.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [04:05] dholbach: what about the python transition, is it all done ? [04:06] sivang: for Universe: I doubt it [04:06] I see :-/ [04:06] sivang: doko_ fixed a lot and synced a lot from Debian, but I guess it's not complete (for Universe) [04:06] yes, I see [04:06] Ok - anything else specific for the last days before release? === _MMA_ [n=mma@cpe-071-070-203-016.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [04:07] (If you can think of anything later on, just mail ubuntu-motu@) [04:08] dholbach: we have that gnustep transition open [04:08] siretart: ah! how many packages does that involve? [04:08] dholbach: you surely remember a series of UVF exceptions the last dats [04:08] siretart: yeah I do - are there other packages involved? [04:08] dholbach: I'm not sure as I'm not familiar with gnustep at all [04:08] I see [04:09] I'll follow up with him. [04:09] I remember a message from debian-release@lists.debian.org, that this transition isn't complete even in debian/etch [04:09] I'll write him after the meeting - let's hope we get that done for release [04:09] ok [04:10] what's that transition about... I remember quite a bunch of gnustep uploads at the beginning of edgy... [04:10] the gnustep transition will need several packages to be rebuilt or synced but I haven't checked in detail yet [04:10] I'm still trying to get all pieces built [04:10] gnustep transition is almost finished in Debian from what I read from debian-release list [04:11] some packages are still in NEW [04:11] gnustep-back needs to be built [04:11] yes, also curious to know what the gnustep transition is about [04:11] maybe s.o. could investigate and post to ubuntu-motu@l.u.c? [04:11] Ok, that sounds as if we're on a good way to get it fixed. [04:12] yes, lets not block the meeting with that transitions. let's move on [04:12] For Universe/Multiverse Bugs: 1 75 of 2778 results is, what I currently see. [04:12] What is a good way to address those bugs? [04:12] ( http://tinyurl.com/p7moy ) [04:12] dholbach: Close the lot of them, of course. [04:12] ;-) [04:12] Right. [04:13] Write a script that iterates through and rejects them. Problem solved. [04:13] dholbach: Some of those 2778 probably apply to Hoary which can be found and slaughtered. [04:13] We have a bug-free universe. [04:13] I'm sure that a lot of old ones can indeed be rejected. [04:13] StevenK, probably. [04:13] that's rather a task for the opening of edgy+1 [04:14] True... [04:14] in the process of uploading a fix for universe and multiverse in the last days we should always make sure to check the bugs in launchpad for that package [04:14] that way we can easily find bugs that can be closed with the upload and some even point to the debian bug with a patch [04:14] I've generally tried to do that for all of my uploads. [04:14] Fujitsu: Good work! [04:15] 1 75 of 157 results Uni/Multiverse bugs with patches [04:15] those are lowhanging fruit, I guess [04:15] dholbach: I don't really see what we as motu team can decide or discuss about high bugnumbers, besides encouraging to participate in bug squashing sessions [04:15] I'll write a mail to ubuntu-motu@ about that later on [04:15] siretart: I only try to identify low-hanging fruit [04:16] things we can get fixed easily. [04:16] dholbach: what we can do is to try to create reports about how many bugs we have open, how many are confirmed, important and have a patch, and list them in a report === StevenK makes a note to look at some of the bugs with patches when uni work has sent him insane. [04:16] siretart: nice idea - that would go well into a MOTU section on UWN [04:16] from taking a glimpse on some bugs, some basic triaging (getting info etc.) might help... maybe we could do a hug day? [04:16] in the hope that this encourages uploaders actually looking at bugs. debian has a weekly report about RC bugs [04:16] sistpoty: sure - sfllaw will be happy to see some people working on universe packages [04:17] Ok, I'll write a mail about Universe bugs. [04:17] dholbach: great! [04:17] Who wants to massfile bugs on unmet deps? [04:18] I have a script for that - but if somebody else wants to do that, that's cool [04:18] I can do it, if others won't :) [04:18] Fujitsu: I think I'll also point to the failed builds on launchpad [04:18] Fujitsu: http://daniel.holba.ch/bzr/massfile [04:18] Thanks. [04:18] would be good to have the packagename in the bug title (i guess that was a script bug last time *g*) ;) [04:18] hehe :-) [04:18] ok, let's move on - if some of you have clever ideas which bugs/fixes to address - follow up on the mailing list [04:19] and tag them! :) [04:19] 2) Find agreement on StableReleaseUpdates for Universe/Multiverse [04:19] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates [04:19] Yes, that's particularly important to me, as I've got an update or two that need doing ;) [04:19] dholbach: 1st question: do we have a -proposed upload target for universe? [04:19] Usually shortly after releases we get lots of requests for updates to -updated [04:19] -updates [04:20] siretart: I'm not quite sure, I'll investigate and let you all know. === dous [n=dous@ubuntu/member/dous] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [04:20] just curious: did anyone do a SRU for uni/multiverse recently? [04:20] not recently [04:20] dholbach: is someone only who we can ask? because I think this could be important for our further discussion of this point [04:21] s/only/online/. gnarf [04:21] sistpoty: I think LaserJock tried to do one, but mdz told him that we need a process for that first === lfittl is now here too, sry for being late [04:21] sistpoty: thats why we are discussion that here [04:21] I asked in #ubuntu-devel [04:22] thanks [04:22] imo the entry barrier as proposed in SRU-updates is too high for universe... [04:22] that's my feeling too, sistpoty [04:22] siretart, I see an SRU for matplotlib by LaserJock. [04:22] maybe we could get s.th. like motu-uvf in place for SRU policies and just get a final ack after the -proposed upload from ubuntu-archive? [04:22] Fujitsu: oh. i see [04:22] What is the current state of -proposed? Does it work? Does it work for universe and multiverse as well? [04:22] what's the SRU? [04:22] dholbach: working but restricted by policy (StableReleaseUpdates); yes; yes [04:22] sivang: STABLE RELEASE UPDATES [04:22] dholbach: ah, right, sorry ! :-) [04:22] *cough* :) [04:23] hehe === StevenK waits for his ears to stop ringing. [04:23] I like sistpoty's idea (in fact, I wanted to propose something similar) [04:23] sistpoty: how do you think the testing process should work? === mindspin [n=mindspin@p54B24C3B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [04:23] ... testing part of the process ... [04:24] dholbach: just some ideas so far...: [04:24] only updates allowed with bug numbers === mindspin [n=mindspin@p54B24C3B.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Konversation] [04:24] then we could "abuse" the ppl. filing the bugs to participate in testing [04:25] (they are likely interested in actually testing fixed packages) [04:25] the motu-uvf-alike team would also need to do some basic tests I guess [04:25] yeah that's the interesting part of the question: who do we ask to test? [04:25] bug reporters: good idea [04:26] dholbach: the bug submitters and subscribed ppl to that lp bug [04:26] motu-uvf: bad idea - too much mails already ;-) [04:26] siretart: do you think that's enough? [04:26] dholbach: let's call that group 'motu-sru' [04:26] yay [04:26] of course the uploader needs to test thoroughly *g* [04:27] dholbach: I think yes. we cannot afford the same level of testing as in main [04:27] and that would be people who agree to do tests in the stable release now and then? [04:27] uvf? [04:27] rmjb: upstream version freeze [04:27] What about mailing them to UWN and announcing them - for people to test and have a look? [04:27] dholbach: I don't understand, announce what exactly? [04:27] that would make sure we have a reasonably big tester community [04:28] "fixed packages of <...> available for testing." [04:28] in form of a report section of UWN? sounds great! [04:28] yeah [04:28] sounds a good idea, but I'm not sure how well that will work [04:28] Although some bugs already have large communities built up around them, so have a large testing ground already :P [04:28] dholbach: sounds great... maybe we could increase the testing time a little bit (2-4 weaks?)? [04:28] dholbach: and point the testers to the sru bug report, otherwise we'll get a whole load of dupes :) [04:29] Yes, sounds like UWN would encourage people to do testing. [04:29] minghua: we have to test. do you have another proposal? [04:29] because we need to get thorough testing done: be honest: all of us run the development release and seldomly test stuff in the last stable [04:29] I have some input method related package I want to propose for SRU, but I doubt many testers are interested in testing them [04:29] dholbach: so that proposed will become a kind of testing *g* [04:29] sistpoty: >= 2 weeks - yes, what I thought [04:29] dholbach: well, setting up a dapper chroot is not hard :) [04:29] dholbach: how does the -propsed queue work? do uploads get automatically built and published? [04:29] siretart: not really, but I think the uploader/proposer should be more responsible [04:30] sivang: thoroughly using it, is [04:30] minghua: we have a cjk-testers team in launchpad - maybe you could subscribe them to that bug? [04:30] siretart: yes, in the -proposed section [04:30] just a side though: we should try to limit new upstream versions though, maybe only for utterly broken packages or small diffs, since these would be a target for -backports imo [04:30] so, that measn testers will have to have another box runnign dapper.. [04:31] dholbach: a lot of bugs I want to fix have cjk-testers subscribed, not much activity from what I see [04:31] sistpoty: agreed [04:31] dholbach: cool. I imagined that would be a moderated queue, similar to NEW or something [04:31] sistpoty: indeed, make a lot of sense. [04:31] minghua: you could try to prod jono about making the team more active - maybe ask in the loco teams to get people involved there [04:31] sistpoty, of course. [04:31] dholbach: sure, I'll think more about this [04:31] Wow, looks like we got some good ideas on that one. [04:32] :) [04:32] I'm just expressing my interest on SRU for universe here :-) === tomveens [n=tomveens@ztn-c-1566b.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [04:32] for testing, maybe we could make some silly "acks >= n" guidelines for packages, to see if updating in fact makes sense [04:32] Anyone wants to add something to it? [04:32] minghua: :-) [04:32] minghua: anything relate to zh_CN, ubuntu-cn would like test [04:32] I think strict ack >= n is a good idea [04:33] might be a bit tough for obscure packages [04:33] sistpoty: I'd say not >= , but they will have to provide X benefits on ground which we will update them. [04:33] but this is something we'll figure out along the way [04:33] freeflying: not really, the things I have in my head is scim-chewing and scim-m17n [04:33] freeflying: but thanks for the information [04:33] so having something like "Does it fulfill A,B,C and E? okay let's update" [04:33] We need to flesh out this process perfectly, so it'll be easy for people to get involved in approving, forwarding, testing, etc [04:33] freeflying: on the other hand, most zh_CN related scim stuff are in main anyway [04:33] I wouldn't make it a strict policy (as dholbach just mentioned)... but rather a guideline which the sru-team could still override [04:33] minghua: but we wtill can test [04:33] yeah [04:34] testing on stable can be done in a virtual appliance? if users are running development? [04:34] Ok - let's put all of this into a wiki page later on and work on it together [04:34] rmjb: for sure [04:34] back to the ack >= n thing - if we can't get enough acks, it should mean not many users are interested in this package, shouldn't it? [04:34] did we agree on a 'motu-sru' team? how many members and what quorum do we want to have? [04:35] and when Xen is ready in edgy, it will even come out of the box IIRC. [04:35] I have the feeling that we won't solve the process entirely today. [04:35] we need to start with somethign modest, [04:35] and refine the process as we go [04:35] minghua: it would... but some obscure packages that are utterly broken anyway would get of starved from this... so I'd make it just a guideline which can be overridden... [04:35] *something [04:36] dholbach, of course, there is a lot to be decided. [04:36] Yes [04:36] We can start with a very basic set of guidlines, and see what more we require by experience [04:36] the sru will also apply to dapper since that's LTS or does that already have something in place? [04:36] minghua: also, testing by s.o. who's really knowing what he's doing is worth more then 5 tests of ppl. who don't have much clue ;) [04:36] freeflying: you mean ubuntu-cn can still test packages in main, or test packages not about zh_CN? [04:36] I'll start on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Processes/SRU later on and will try to make the wiki page so everybody can add their proposal in easily [04:36] we should discuss the strict guidelines in another meeting === lukas_ [n=lukas@c-68-84-69-12.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [04:36] or perhaps on the mailing list [04:37] good idea too [04:37] +1 [04:37] +1 [04:37] +1 [04:37] so it gets some eyeballing before we finally agree in a meeting [04:37] minghua: we'd like test anything we can do :) [04:37] next item? === bddebian [n=bdefrees@mail.ottens.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [04:37] sistpoty: very true. if some one is willing to be responsible for the upload, then things can be overridden. :-) [04:38] MOTU Build Farm and Donation (HW, CPU time, and $) process (JordanMantha) [04:38] laserjock is not here [04:38] I think we probably should leave this one out for the next meeting - what do you guys think? [04:38] yep [04:38] is TheMuso here? [04:38] TO be honest, I think its something that should be discussed on the ml. [04:38] dholbach: perhaps you can give some details about this proposal? [04:38] the proposal mail to -motu is his [04:38] Its not something thats easily talked about on IRC> [04:38] I think some should just send me a PPC, Sparc, and amd64 and be done with it.. ;-P [04:39] bddebian: I have a spare ultra1 ;) [04:39] siretart: I have no idea [04:39] siretart: it's his item :) [04:39] ic [04:40] hm. the original proposal was from Luke Yelavich [04:40] dholbach: can we abuse edgy-proposed for that? [04:40] A few of us were talking about it in -motu earlier today, and were throwing ideas around, but due ot the complexity of what might have to be done, I feel it it would be easier on the mailing list. [04:40] siretart: for what? [04:40] IMO [04:40] I think this is fairly important, because I've run into a couple of bugs/FTBFSes in various things that only appear in PPC or [insert other obscure architecture here] . It's pretty much impossible to debug this sort of stuff without access to machines of the target architecture. [04:40] dholbach: testuploading packages to see if they build on all architectures or for testing of patches? [04:40] And not all of us have non-x86 machines. [04:40] hmrmhrmhmrmhrmhrmhrmhrmhr [04:41] I don't like the idea much - the buildds are usually somewhat blocked already [04:41] I wasn't thinking of using the build servers. [04:41] dholbach: buildds can be prioritized. I imagine that very low priority [04:41] *cough* openoffice *cough* kde *cough* [04:41] not blocked, but you know that other stuff will be delayed [04:41] I don't like the idea much [04:42] I am very well aware of their busy schedule. [04:42] you can ask on #ubuntu-devel - as it's not my decision [04:42] imo it's not so much the problem to test if a package builds on all arches before a package is uploaded, but rather to get access to arch-xy if there is a build-failer on that arch [04:42] Has everybody here read the original email I sent? [04:42] failure even [04:43] TheMuso: I read :-) === sivang looks for the email [04:43] I think TheMuso's idea is not really a build farm, but something like Debian's developer's machine for all archs [04:44] which MOTUs can log in and do test builds or debugging [04:44] TheMuso: is that correct? [04:44] and in that case we don't need the official buildds [04:44] some machines in a MOTU's house works just fine [04:45] minghua: SOmewhat. I was thinking of something where anybody who has hardware can donate its use for building/testing, but on a purely volintary basis. [04:45] Like what a couple of people do now. [04:45] And have such systems in place so that if a user donates hardware, but has low bandwidth, their systems only build small packages. Same with CPU speed, and times of day. [04:45] Fujitsu: Exactly. [04:46] ajmitch raised some interesting points about security. I'd have to dig back through my -motu logs to find them however. [04:46] <_MMA_> Hello all. LaserJock and I talked at some length about this. I have a AMD AM2 4600+ machine that I would like to compile packages on. Currently I cant package. I wanna learn but my current situations gives me limited time to learn new things. So we discussed I could process files without configuring everything. [04:47] <_MMA_> I also wanted to donate some $ for hardware. [04:48] Can we start getting ideas together on a wiki page for that? [04:48] It looks like it's not something we can decide easily [04:48] Thats a good idea. [04:48] hm... just as a side idea: maybe we could also form amd64/sparc/ppc/whatever teams, that have access to that hw and to whom we could assign arch-specific bugs to. usually it's easy for s.o. who has that arch to fix the bug because he will know what's the problem [04:49] That's a big assumption. === hub [n=hub@toronto-hs-216-138-231-194.s-ip.magma.ca] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [04:49] well.. usually as in for the easy fixes... of course there are tough tasks, which the team could reject then [04:49] I own an sparc64 and a parisc, doesn't mean I know anything about how the software functions in comparsion to an i386 [04:49] StevenK: Same with myself and my ppc. === phanatic_ [n=phanatic@dsl54009F59.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [04:50] sistpoty: with this proposal the person with the knowledge of the package can fix the bug since they'll have access to the different arches [04:50] we could add a subpage to the wiki about people and their hardware [04:50] rmjb: sure... it was just an extra idea on top of that [04:50] and decide on a process to form those teams, etc [04:50] wiki idea: need a spokesperson for the page a one point to communicatie with about HW donation [04:51] http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Machines ;-) [04:51] the motu-machines :) [04:51] heh [04:51] we can add all the security worries, process ideas, lists, mail addresses, everything to it [04:51] who's first? [04:52] I suggest we do that before we start to decide on something :) [04:52] but it was great to see some ideas thrown into the mix ;-) [04:52] dholbach: Agreed. I just wanted to get it out in the open. [04:52] TheMuso: thanks a lot for that. [04:52] np [04:52] next time and date? [04:52] I'd like to have it after the release === lbm [n=lbm@82.192.173.92] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [04:53] A couple of days after? [04:53] Does anybody mind if I create the wiki page dholbach suggested above [04:53] Fujitsu: sounds good [04:53] Go ahead, dholbach. [04:53] okay === DBO [n=DBO@unaffiliated/dbo] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [04:53] SO I can flesh out my original proposal a little more? [04:53] between release and UDS, after? [04:53] Oops, *TheMuso, not dholbach. [04:54] :) [04:54] Ok, we can handle that on the mailing list as well. [04:54] Thanks a lot everybody for coming to the meeting! [04:55] np [04:55] thanks for the meeting ;) [04:55] Have a good time until the release - I know you're all going to ROCK! [04:55] THanks for running it :) === StevenK [n=stevenk@14.5.233.220.exetel.com.au] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] [04:55] de rien :) [04:55] No, no rocking. Sleeping now :P === dholbach goes to write a couple of mails :-) [04:55] Fujitsu: sleep tight. [04:55] Fujitsu: SOunds like a plan. [04:55] That page is going up tomorrow. [04:55] Thanks dholbach :) [04:55] Good idea, TheMuso. [04:55] 'tis late. [04:55] Or early. [04:56] Yeah. And I don't feel very awake. :p === minghua [n=minghua@danube.mems.rice.edu] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Leaving"] [04:56] Neither. [04:56] See you all on the morrow. === TheMuso [n=luke@ubuntu/member/themuso] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] [05:06] Hey, what'd I miss. Can you all start over? ;-P === kristog [n=kristog@energ63.energ.polimi.it] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [05:11] bddebian: heh === _MMA_ [n=mma@cpe-071-070-203-016.nc.res.rr.com] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === geser [n=michael@dialin110158.justdsl.de] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Leaving"] === lupine_85 [n=lupine@81.187.208.241] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === amachu [n=amachu@125.22.67.85] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 10 Oct 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 11 Oct 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 12:00 UTC: Community Council | 18 Oct 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 19 Oct 23:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team === Burgundavia [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === GNAM [n=GNAM@82.52.235.199] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === dholbach_ [n=daniel@i577B0D77.versanet.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Lure [n=lure@ubuntu/member/lure] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === cbx33 [n=pete@ubuntu/member/cbx33] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === zul [n=chuck@CPE0006258ec6c1-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Lure [n=lure@ubuntu/member/lure] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === lucas [n=lucas@ubuntu/member/lucas] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Burgundavia [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Seveas [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === superm1 [n=superm1@ubuntu/member/superm1] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === superm1 [n=superm1@ubuntu/member/superm1] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Ex-Chat"] === lloydinho [n=andreas@host81-159-84-6.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Lure [n=lure@ubuntu/member/lure] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === finalbeta [n=finalbet@d5152A68A.access.telenet.be] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === finalbeta [n=finalbet@d5152A68A.access.telenet.be] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Adri2000 [n=Adri2000@unaffiliated/adri2000] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === rodarvus [n=rodarvus@ubuntu/member/rodarvus] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Burgundavia [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === cbx33 [n=pete@ubuntu/member/cbx33] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Leaving"] === mc44 [n=mark@ip-81-170-97-35.cust.homechoice.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === zul_ [n=chuck@CPE0006258ec6c1-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === rodarvus [n=rodarvus@ubuntu/member/rodarvus] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === bddebian [n=bdefrees@mail.ottens.com] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Leaving"] === tonyyarusso [n=anthony@d235-240-148.home1.cgocable.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mbamford [n=Matt@207.6.210.19] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mbamford [n=Matt@207.6.210.19] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === cbx33 [n=pete@ubuntu/member/cbx33] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === jenda_ [n=jenda@195.47.80.185.adsl.nextra.cz] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === jenda [n=jenda@ubuntu/member/jenda] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Huahua [n=hua_@122.0.228.77] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Lure [n=lure@ubuntu/member/lure] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === j_ack [n=rudi@p508DB676.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === cbx33 [n=pete@ubuntu/member/cbx33] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === joejaxx [i=jadaz87@ubuntu/member/joejaxx] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === gnomefreak [n=gnomefre@ubuntu/member/gnomefreak] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === j_ack [n=rudi@p508DB676.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting