[12:14] I have the feeling that the packages where he is working on do not find any progress maybe he needs help? Anyone? [12:14] anyone can tell me more about this? [12:16] hmm [12:16] are you referring to bug 33340? [12:16] Malone bug 33340 in rp-pppoe "pppoe-server segfaults" [Medium,Unconfirmed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/33340 [12:16] the remaining two bugs mentioned on his wiki page have been marked 'fix released' [12:20] back === doko_ [n=doko@dslb-088-073-097-072.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:23] I've fixed the bzr-svn package - any chance somebody can have another look at #64826? === FunnyLookinHat [n=funnyloo@64.140.73.92] has joined #ubuntu-motu === sepheebear [n=sepheebe@ool-45778673.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:42] lophyte: have you tried to build mpg123 0.60-3? [12:42] not yet, I had to run off to dinner.. [12:42] I'll try it out now === nictuku [n=yves@ubuntu/member/nictuku] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Mirrado [n=Mirrado@20150100017.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #ubuntu-motu === sepheebear [n=sepheebe@ool-45778673.dyn.optonline.net] has left #ubuntu-motu [] === Mirrado [n=Mirrado@20150100017.user.veloxzone.com.br] has left #ubuntu-motu [] === sepheebear [n=sepheebe@ool-45778673.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === lophyt1 [n=dsulliva@65.94.198.19] has joined #ubuntu-motu === lophyt1 [n=dsulliva@65.94.198.19] has left #ubuntu-motu [] [12:53] geser: building [12:56] where do I get the buildlog from? (never done this before...) [12:57] when you build with puilder build --pkgname-logfile you get a file name *.build in /var/cache/pbuilder/result [12:58] ah [12:58] alternatively you can direct all output from pbuilder into a file [12:58] but I prefer the first method [12:58] no need to worry about stdout and stderr [12:59] do I need to make any changes to the package first, or just build it? [12:59] just build [12:59] alright [12:59] motu-uvf needs a proof that the package builds in edgy === sepheebear [n=sepheebe@ool-45778673.dyn.optonline.net] has left #ubuntu-motu [] === rmjb [n=richard@cuscon19964.tstt.net.tt] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:02] re [01:04] geser: buildlog posted [01:05] lophyte: thanks [01:05] np === sepheebear [n=sepheebe@ool-45778673.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === LaserJock [n=mantha@ubuntu/member/laserjock] has joined #ubuntu-motu === sepheebear [n=sepheebe@ool-45778673.dyn.optonline.net] has left #ubuntu-motu [] === lastnode [n=lastnode@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-motu === lastnode [n=lastnode@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-motu === zul [n=bob@ubuntu/member/zul] has joined #ubuntu-motu === awbassett [n=andrew@206.135.97.35] has joined #ubuntu-motu === minghua [n=minghua@ppp-70-247-55-3.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:47] hey room [01:49] hi rmjb [01:49] I dunno if you all saw in the mailing list, but I created a page on the wiki at wiki.ubuntu.com/Acronyms [01:49] heh, was that you? [01:49] I wondered who that was [01:49] it would be great if you all, and the other ubuntu members could add to the page [01:50] yeah it was me [01:50] It'll help new ubuntu hopefuls like me, esp in situations like the motu-meeting earlier [01:53] it'd also help you guys, since, when some keeps asking what's this and what's that you can just point them to the page [01:55] :-) === redguy [n=mati@acu91.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #ubuntu-motu === ajmitch wonders if we can DoS moin with all the debian acronyms [01:57] probably === bddebian [n=bdefrees@71.224.172.103] has joined #ubuntu-motu === StevenK [n=stevenk@14.5.233.220.exetel.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:01] when updating a package for whatever reason, is a debdiff the preferred format? [02:01] rmjb, yes for most developers/maintainers [02:01] and for you guys too? the MOTUs? [02:01] yes [02:02] we generally count as developers & maintainers :) [02:02] rmjb, yup ( that falls into the Maintainers ) [02:02] hehe [02:02] :) [02:02] rmjb, basicly unless someone says they wish it specificly in a diffrent format debdiff is good === sepheebear [n=sepheebe@ool-45778673.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:05] well, looks like the bug count is up again from last night [02:05] we got it down by about 40, but seems that it went up again after I went to bed :) [02:05] http://people.ubuntu-in.org/~carthik/bugstats/ [02:05] nice big drop in the daily bugs === sepheebear [n=sepheebe@ool-45778673.dyn.optonline.net] has left #ubuntu-motu [] [02:07] wow, the weekly all graph is remarkably linear [02:08] yeah [02:08] it looked almost exponential for awhile [02:08] I was thinking today of ways to prioritize MOTU bug work [02:08] sorry, the open bugs looked exponential :) === Q-FUNK [n=q-funk@dsl-hkigw8-feaff900-158.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:09] geez, you guys are fitting from a dozen points [02:09] I have my priorities... main first :) [02:09] minghua: it's not a scientific study, so who cares? [02:09] minghua: bah, all I need is 3 ;-) [02:09] ajmitch: sure, just kidding :-) [02:10] ajmitch, heh...xen isnt in main yet ;) [02:10] zul: f-spot is [02:14] but surely f-spot doesn't have any bugs [02:16] :P === freeflying [n=freeflyi@ubuntu/member/freeflying] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Tonio_ [n=tonio@6.8.100-84.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:23] LaserJock / ajmitch , either one of you very good with python ftbs errirs ? [02:23] errors* [02:23] http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/26120/ [02:24] imbrandon: "no such file or directory" generally means the same in any language [02:25] well yea but sip is installed [02:25] and it's searching in a relative path, for a .in file [02:25] eg it's looking in it's source tree [02:25] s/it's/its/ [02:26] oh snaz, ok i read that wrong, still strange why its ftb thats stock from the repos ( apt-get source ) [02:26] hrm === mister_roboto [n=jrk@24-136-10-99.hnc-bsr1.chi-hnc.il.cable.rcn.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === freeflying [n=freeflyi@ubuntu/member/freeflying] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Tonio_ [n=tonio@6.8.100-84.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Tonio_ [n=tonio@6.8.100-84.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:01] woot ok time for some tv, hero's is on [03:01] bbiab [03:06] tv has ruined my imagination i can think of alot better...umm...yeah === FliesLikeALap [n=Ryan@eggplant-24.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has joined #ubuntu-motu === ctd [i=ctd@incubus.progsoc.uts.edu.au] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:31] heh [03:31] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCgbNhnfSBQ === orion2012 [n=orion201@cpe-70-114-30-76.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === FunnyLookinHat [n=funnyloo@64.140.73.93] has joined #ubuntu-motu === _MMA_ [n=mma@cpe-071-070-203-016.nc.res.rr.com] has left #ubuntu-motu [] === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-motu === awbassett [n=andrew@206.135.97.35] has left #ubuntu-motu ["Leaving"] === bmonty [n=bmontgom@ubuntu/member/bmonty] has joined #ubuntu-motu === lastnode_ [n=lastnode@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-motu === mayday_jay [n=mayday_j@maydayjay.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === cr3_ [n=marc@Kitchener-HSE-ppp3571524.sympatico.ca] has joined #ubuntu-motu === alexr [n=shura@adsl-71-134-249-82.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:18] Hi there [04:18] anybody has an idea as to whom should the bug in gramps be assigned? [04:18] it's best not to assign bugs to people [04:19] Just leave it as is? [04:19] https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gramps/+bug/53113 [04:19] Malone bug 53113 in gramps "After installing Gramps, double-clicking .grdb file gives "Couldn't display" error" [Undecided,Confirmed] [04:21] yes, if the bug is in debian, you may wish to follow up there [04:23] generally we're a small group trying to care for a large set of packages, so we look at what we can :) [04:23] ajmitch: it's not in debian [04:24] ajmitch: and it's really strange [04:24] the bug isn't in debian? [04:24] Seems like introduced by mistalke [04:24] Nope [04:24] Seems like packager's oops [04:24] it doesn't appear to be introduced by any ubuntu change [04:24] How do you know? [04:24] maybe a change in one of the build tools we use [04:24] Maybe [04:24] because I looked at the ubuntu changelog [04:25] Ubuntu compared to debian? [04:25] or ubuntu to upstream? [04:25] ubuntu to debian [04:25] Can you point me to it? [04:25] https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+source/gramps/+changelog [04:26] checking manually now [04:32] ajmitch: I am told that 2.0.11-2ubuntu installs ~/.local/share/mime/packages/Override.xml and then runs update-mime-database on ~/.local/share/mime [04:32] ajmitch: And this Override.xml overrides one of the mime types that we properly register [04:33] ajmitch: I don't run Ubuntu myself. [04:33] the package itself should not touch stuff in ~ at all at install - maybe when it is run [04:33] Is it possible that shared mime system is doing this? [04:33] We definitely would not be doing this in gramps [04:34] possible, but I wouldn't know [04:34] only when programs are run would they touch something in ~/.local [04:35] even more odd - the package doesn't appear to have built in ubuntu [04:36] or I've just broken something locally, which is more likely [04:44] ajmitch: anything I can do to help? [04:45] alexr: well I can't confirm it after installing on my laptop, but I'd need to test more (eg when I can actually see a GUI) [04:46] I'd say that it could have been some other app that decided to have fun with mimetypes [04:46] The steps necessary to create the reported situation are: [04:46] 1. Create .local/share/mime/packages/Override.xml [04:47] 2. Run " update-mime-database .local/share/mime/" === BazziR [n=Bastian@p50802C3F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:47] How can some other app do this? [04:47] can you explain why a user would end up doing that? [04:48] ajmitch: the user would not do that [04:48] it's just what happens [04:48] I assumed that the packager screwed up [04:48] but I can see now that this is not the case [04:49] Ubuntu: shared-mime-info 0.18-0ubuntu1 [04:49] Debian: shared-mime-info 0.19-1 [04:49] Can this be the cause? [04:50] possible but unlikely [04:50] I'd say unlikely too [04:50] I don't think the Override.xml just magically appeared [04:51] more than one person reported this. [04:51] At least 3 that I know if [04:51] of [04:51] They would not be screwing up their systems. [04:51] Only one of them had the knowledge to find out the details on ~/.local === ogra [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:51] it could be something unrelated like alacarte, for example [04:52] I suppose [04:52] or some other tools that play with mime stuff [04:52] I'll be back in a minute from another machine [04:53] alacarte doesn't touch anything with mime types === Amaranth_ [n=travis@ubuntu/member/amaranth] has joined #ubuntu-motu === alexr [n=shura@adsl-71-134-249-82.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:56] hi again [04:56] hi [04:57] Amaranth_: I didn't think it would [04:57] ajmitch: from http://standards.freedesktop.org/shared-mime-info-spec/shared-mime-info-spec-latest.html [04:57] Where the information from these files is conflicting, information from directories lower in the list takes precedence. Any file named Override.xml takes precedence over all other files in the same packages directory. This can be used by tools which let the user edit the database to ensure that the user's changes take effect. === mwolson [n=mwolson@jpi-wlafyte-212-116.dmisinetworks.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [05:06] alexr: The problem is no package creates files under ~/.local on install and we don't know what app installed it. [05:07] Amaranth_: Yeah, I understand [05:07] Lag from hell :/ [05:07] The thing is, 3 unrelated people reported this on Ubuntu [05:07] they can't all be dreaming :-) [05:07] They have something in common [05:07] Forensics :) [05:08] OK, I guess I'll ask the ones who can reproduce it to delete this stuff and try again. [05:09] In hopes to catch what's generating the Override.xml and running update-mime-database [05:13] brb === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-motu === zenrox [n=zenrox@pool-71-115-219-183.spknwa.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Amaranth [n=travis@ubuntu/member/amaranth] has joined #ubuntu-motu === LaserJock [n=mantha@ubuntu/member/laserjock] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-motu [05:50] Amaranth: OK, I emailed the latest victim of the Override problem to keep his eyes open [05:50] right. i'm not going to get burned. [05:50] i hope [05:50] Maybe something will ring a bell and he will recall the use of some smart tool messing up the mime types [05:52] hello Hobbsee === FunnyLookinHat [n=funnyloo@64.140.73.93] has joined #ubuntu-motu [05:52] Hobbsee: cooking again? :) [05:52] ajmitch: no, i'm at the uni :P [05:52] I see.. [05:53] comp labs just got evacuated again - and they seemed more paniced than usual === Hobbsee suspects that wasnt a drill === Hobbsee smelt components burning. === tolido [n=lai@CPE0014bff97596-CM014490111447.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === tolido [n=lai@CPE0014bff97596-CM014490111447.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has left #ubuntu-motu [] === alexr [n=shura@adsl-71-134-249-82.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has left #ubuntu-motu [] === azeem [n=mbanck@host109.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #ubuntu-motu === azeem [n=mbanck@host45.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #ubuntu-motu [06:27] hey everyone i was wondering if there wasan ubuntu orphan package list i could look at [06:27] ones that people have stopped maintaining [06:27] or if there is not a list [06:27] we don't have 'maintainers' per se, so there's no such list. [06:27] how can i go about creating one? [06:27] oh [06:27] i.e., MOTU is in charge of universe and multiverse [06:28] crimsun: well how do i find out which packages have just stopped being maintained? [06:28] or are not included in these future releases because of that [06:28] referring to upstream (Debian)? Check Debian's lists. === joejaxx goes off to find this list [06:35] crimsun: http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/ :) === azeem [n=mbanck@host45.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #ubuntu-motu [07:12] whats up with the translation stuff in the repos?? getting alot of IGN === MagnusR [n=magru@c83-250-59-127.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #ubuntu-motu === robitaille [n=daniel@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-motu === TheMuso [n=luke@ubuntu/member/themuso] has joined #ubuntu-motu === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #ubuntu-motu === cbx33 [n=pete@ubuntu/member/cbx33] has joined #ubuntu-motu [07:28] great! my wifi (which-almost-never-works-cause-of-the-damn-broadcom-chipset) suddenly went up thanks to network-manager going crazy. No wonder my connection barely worked with both wired and wireless network up without routing info.. === Toadstool goes to bed and prepares himself for the NetworkManager nigthmares... === azeem_ [n=mbanck@host109.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Burgundavia [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-motu === viviersf [n=cain@196.44.1.98] has joined #ubuntu-motu === StevenK [n=stevenk@14.5.233.220.exetel.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Q-FUNK [n=q-funk@dsl-hkigw8-feaff900-158.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Fujitsu [n=Fujitsu@ubuntu/member/fujitsu] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Lure [n=lure@external-7.hermes.si] has joined #ubuntu-motu === vud1 [n=vud1@unaffilitated/vud1] has joined #ubuntu-motu === vud1 [n=vud1@unaffilitated/vud1] has left #ubuntu-motu ["chapo] === ivoks [n=ivoks@ubuntu/member/ivoks] has joined #ubuntu-motu === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Nafallo [n=nafallo@ubuntu/member/nafallo] has joined #ubuntu-motu === dous [n=dous@ubuntu/member/dous] has joined #ubuntu-motu [09:14] morning! [09:15] Hey sivang. === shawarma [n=sh@vega.linux2go.dk] has joined #ubuntu-motu [09:18] hi Fujitsu , what's cracking? [09:18] Currently about to mass-file unmet dep bugs... [09:19] Of course, it'd be nice to tag them all. [09:19] But noooo, LP doesn't provide a tagging feature via email or anything other than HTTP. [09:20] ah, have you poked the folks at #lp ? [09:20] Yup. [09:20] they might have a solution [09:20] Nope. [09:20] how do you mass bug file btw? [09:20] Email, and lots of it. === lucas [n=lucas@ubuntu/member/lucas] has joined #ubuntu-motu [09:22] Fujitsu: no, but how do you find them out? has ajmitch finished his script ? [09:22] sivang, apt-cache -i unmet does it :P [09:24] Fujitsu: ah, oops, *sigh* apt-cache is subtle and has lots of option to learn I see..:-/ [09:24] Yeah. === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-motu [09:25] Heya Hobbsee. [09:25] hey Hobbsee, Fujitsu, sivang [09:25] Hi Burgundavia. [09:26] hey Fujitsu [09:26] hi Burgundavia! === Burgundavia is very tired [09:27] go sleep? [09:28] can't [09:28] Why not? [09:28] leave for the airport in around 1 1/2 hours [09:28] Ah. [09:28] Ouch. === givre [n=Florent@APuteaux-152-1-67-218.w83-204.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-motu [09:28] Burgundavia: how was boston? [09:28] ouch [09:28] very good [09:28] I was at Mako's until 2am, so it is not so bad [09:30] I have cleaned out the spam trap for -devel and -users, cleaned out my inbox, wrote a new spec [09:30] been quite productive, despite barely being able to put two thoughts together [09:31] What is said spec regarding? [09:32] gdm stuff [09:32] Yay, only 160 sources with uninstallable binaries... Not as bad as I thought. [09:33] Fujitsu: you have a script for mass bug file? [09:33] Fujitsu: IMHO you should use one :-) [09:34] sivang, dholbach had one for last time. I've modified it a bit, and am going to use it. [09:34] I'm not going to file 160 bugs manually :P [09:34] just fix them :P [09:34] Is there only a http interface to the bug system? [09:35] realist, there's a slight hint of an XML-RPC interface, and a crippled email interface, but mostly it's just HTTP. [09:35] Although the email interface is fairly useful in most cases. [09:36] I'd say go for the email interface === Burgundavia bites his tongue about LP [09:36] Burgundavia: I wont ask anymore :-) [09:36] sivang, I am, yes. [09:36] Burgundavia, of course :) [09:36] realist: there is no sane reason for LP to be closed source [09:37] maybe it is just because I spent a weekend outside the koolaid at a GNOME event [09:37] Burgundavia, 'tis my view too. I'm rather (read extremely) irritated by it... But that's a controversial topic, and is likely to get me killed. [09:37] Fujitsu: I am not afaid to say it [09:38] I'll sit on the fence as far as it's licensing is concerned. [09:38] I can see the benefits from both angles. [09:38] realist, what benefits in closedness can you see? [09:38] Ubuntu has lots of smart people in teh community who would hack on it [09:39] the lack of an XML-RPC interface, general interface brokenness, concern about all of Ubuntu tied to a closed system, etc. [09:39] For one thing, I would have made the email interface fully functional, if the source was available. [09:39] Burgundavia, precisely. There's this absolutely open project, based on absolutely closed infrastructure. [09:39] And in some cases being held back by said infrastructure. [09:39] if LP goes away, Ubuntu is screwed [09:39] this is something nobody is willing to say [09:39] Although LP does do some things quite well. [09:40] Guys, it's going to be released open in stages.. [09:40] Burgundavia, I've said it many a time... Just not around these parts. [09:40] read the FAQ :) [09:40] sivang: Mark has been saying that since Mataro [09:40] I stopped believing it around last year [09:40] sivang, I have. But can we believe it? Soon is relative. [09:40] Soon in geological terms, I can almost believe. [09:41] If it was intended to be open at some point, it would almost definitely not have been written monolithically in the first place. That seems to be the major issue. [09:41] Ubuntu can't be all things, to all people... [09:41] Fujitsu: true, an dyou should bare in mind that soon can be stretched for such a complex and large project. [09:41] realist++ [09:42] sivang, but there wasn't a reason to have it closed from the start... [09:42] realist: that is totally used arguement [09:42] realist, that's really not applicable to this situation. [09:42] sivang: we have just passed 2 years of LP now [09:42] with no clear roadmap for open sourcing it [09:43] If it were open, it'd have a huge number of extra people willing to work on it. [09:43] I wrote a blog post awhile back about it [09:43] I'm not totally conviced it would get better quicker has it been open sourced. Having lots of people willing to contribute doesn't mean quality will come out of it, nor a clear and assertive project leading be maintained. [09:44] sivang: you are confusing product leadership with our concerns [09:44] we are not talking about not having canonical working on it, or even driving the main development [09:45] and then you would have the LP forks that would probably cripple users promising better results then the original...I think this has to be avoided at call costs, for the moment. [09:45] Burgundavia: ah, I see, right [09:45] unlikely you would have forks [09:45] and somebody else running LP is not a fork [09:45] there is a clear need for people to control their own infrastructure [09:46] I guess I don't see this as a problem.. [09:46] People have been using sf.nt and it's still not open source [09:46] sivang: if LP goes away, Ubuntu loses everything [09:47] we lose our build infrastructure, our bug database, our specs [09:47] everything [09:47] If I were to start a distribution, I wouldn't want all of my information locked up in systems controlled by a company with a gigantic commercial interest in another distribution. [09:47] indeed [09:47] Burgundavia: do you really think the people behind the scenens would let this happen? I'm sure they have fallbacks for every part of it. [09:47] SF is different. SF has little/no commercial interest in such things. [09:47] if Canonical goes out of business, what happens to LP is what the creditors say [09:48] in other words, LP would likely be "sold" [09:48] Burgundavia, exactly. All Ubuntu data is out of Ubuntu's control. [09:48] Fujitsu: Can you be sure of that? how do you know that they do not favor their advertiser's project over "plain" ones? [09:48] Fujitsu: (just a thought) [09:49] Burgundavia: hmm [09:49] Burgundavia: have you asked that someone? [09:49] at the very least, we need a pledge like the KDE people have from Trolltedch [09:49] you mean, commitment to continue LP just like Ubuntu Foundation has given ? [09:50] sivang, who knows. It seems unlikely. [09:50] sivang: there is no reason why a distro should be using closed source tools [09:50] no, I have not [09:50] I am going to raise it with Mark directly [09:50] plus the fact that Canonical has 30 people working LP is a bit insane [09:50] I mean a commitment like "If Canonical goes bust, LP becomes GPL" [09:50] Whereas Canonical obviously has (and has to) have a gigantic interest in Ubuntu. It is really in Canonical's interests to minimise other distributions, though they aren't doing that. [09:50] contrast LP to RHs Mugshot [09:50] both are fairly pie in the sky projects [09:51] Mugshot, from the giant evil RH, is open source [09:51] hi [09:51] LP, from the friendly Canonical, is not [09:51] hey ajmitch [09:51] morning ajmitch [09:52] ajmitch: Fujitsu is filing mass bugs for umet deps :-) [09:52] oh no [09:52] ajmitch, or about to. [09:52] It was decided at the meeting last night :P === ajmitch sighs [09:52] ? [09:52] Burgundavia: http://mugshot.org/ ? [09:53] not sure what it does.. a bit confusing if that's the link [09:53] yes [09:53] it doesn't matter what it does [09:53] it matters that RH released it as GPL [09:53] hey ajmitch [09:53] even though it is a server service, would clearly be hurt by "fragmentation", etc. [09:53] That's a seriously bad website >_> [09:53] hello Hobbsee [09:53] all the arguments Canonical uses to keep LP closed soruce [09:54] Burgundavia: Well, I think LP is a "little bit" more high profile then a blogging component ;-) [09:54] but yeah, I catch you point [09:54] mugshot is a lot more than blogging [09:55] I can't see the harm in Canonical protecting its own IP [09:55] realist: lovely. Lets close Ubuntu then [09:55] because that is Canonicals "IP" [09:56] how about upstart [09:56] lets close that, because clearly it is better to keep that clsoed source [09:56] But of course. === Admiral_Chicago [n=freddy@st0660990722.monm.edu] has joined #ubuntu-motu [09:57] realist: our entire community is built around sharing our "IP" === dholbach [n=daniel@i577B0D77.versanet.de] has joined #ubuntu-motu [09:57] in fact, it is a core piece of why we are having this discussion [09:57] Hi dholbach. [09:57] hello dholbach [09:57] It doesn't appear that way (from an outsider's perspective) [09:57] morning dholbach [09:57] Burgundavia, if IP wasn't shared, we wouldn't have FOSS, and this issue wouldn't exist, exactly. [09:57] and hey Hobbsee [09:57] realist: explain to me how LP is different from Ubuntu? [09:58] why should one be closed and other open? [09:58] hi sivang [09:58] good morning [09:58] hey Fujitsu, ajmitch, sivang [09:58] LP is merely infrastructure [09:58] yo dholbach ! [09:58] realist, MERELY!? [09:58] realist: and we run into obstacles with it all the time [09:58] It is the most utterly critical thing in the entirety of Ubuntu. It cannot exist without it. [09:58] Ubuntu is a marketing buzz-word [09:58] no, Ubuntu is a distro [09:59] ajmitch, precisely. [09:59] It regularly blocks work. [09:59] Use something else then [09:59] realist: I care about Ubuntu [09:59] if I didn't, I would move to Debian [09:59] Burgundavia, same. I'm not leaving it unless I really have to. [10:00] Speaking of Debian... [10:00] This is a sore issue with a number of Debian developers. [10:00] realist: I have spent the better part of 2 years thinking about LP and it being closed source [10:00] realist: so please don't come in and tell me what to think now :) [10:00] I'm not telling you what to think at all, in fact it's nice to see someone passionate about it [10:01] one of my earliest bosses told me to "taken ownership" of things you care about [10:01] this is exactly why we are discussing LP === psykoyiko [n=psykoyik@nomad.psax.org] has joined #ubuntu-motu [10:02] Fujitsu: what sore issue? [10:02] realist, that Ubuntu is supported entirely by a piece of insanely proprietary software. [10:02] realist: that ubuntu is built on non-free infrastructure [10:02] realist: Debian belives in freedom, to an almost religious level [10:02] and what ajmitch and Fujitsu said [10:02] That does not suprise me at all then [10:03] seriously, if launchpad went down tomorrow, we'd be in a fair bit of trouble [10:03] ajmitch, a /fair bit/? [10:03] being dumb and keeping something closed source is something I expect from dumb companies like Userful [10:03] Fujitsu: mirrors still carry the packages [10:04] ajmitch: but we couldn't build anything [10:04] Ubuntu obviously has different goals/ideals than Debian [10:04] Burgundavia: no, that'd require some serious hacking of getting dak going again on some hosts [10:04] ajmitch, noted, but we still lose every bit of data not included in the packages themselves. [10:04] realist, not entirely. [10:04] that has nothing todo with LP [10:05] dholbach: sorry I missed the meeting [10:05] better said: How Ubuntu differs from Debian does not affect LP and its licensing [10:05] Fujitsu: they're noticable enough === ajmitch went to bed for an hour or so, but the alarm wasn't set properly [10:05] realist, they are, but freedom is still pretty important. === zenrox [n=zenrox@pool-71-115-219-183.spknwa.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [10:06] To me, it is very important. I barely tolerate LP, and it can be tedious to use at times. [10:06] realist: I used to think like you do. Then I started thinking and then I got scared [10:06] Burgundavia: I don't appreciate that comment. [10:06] realist: no, I am being serious [10:06] I use to think like you do. I am not impying you are not thinking [10:07] You mean, scared that Canonical has so much control over contributed IP? [10:07] two issues: how we collaborate with other projects and what if Canonical goes away [10:07] scared that we're talking about terms like IP when it's a free software project [10:08] indeed [10:08] basically teh community si currently ignoring the 300 pound gorilla of LP-being-closed sitting amongst us [10:08] we need to address it [10:09] claims of "it'll be open.. eventually" don't alleviate concerns [10:09] It is very scary indeed. If Canonical vanishes, or turns evil (however unlikely either of those two are), Ubuntu's data is gone, except for packages. Not a nice thought. [10:09] especially given I have heard the same line for 2 years with no movement [10:10] I need to get ready to go [10:10] "Our goal is to release all of Launchpad as free software, though it will take some time (potentially, years) before that happens." [10:10] `Potentially, years' [10:11] might be back on before I leave, but I never know [10:11] It's been two years now. [10:11] Who knows how many more it'll be. [10:11] have a good day/night/morning [10:11] It could be hundreds, and that statement would still hold true. [10:11] It doesn't necessarily need to be 'open', but a contingency plan should definately be open [10:11]