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[12:14] <PWill> Quick question: Will IceWeasel/GNUZilla be included in Edgy's final release?
[12:14] <PWill> Or is it too late after the freeze...
[12:15] <ogra> IceWeasel is firefox with another name ... there is no further difference
[12:16] <sladen> PWill: I suspect that whether it's called IceWeasel, or Firefox will probably depend on whether Mozilla's sanity recovers 
[12:16] <PWill> OK, thanks.
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[12:18] <doko> sivang: I won't have time to test moin ... 
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[12:21] <kristog> night
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[12:27] <sladen> seb128: is the main change to drop the XML style of inteorgation and to write a brand new direct 'C' method instead?
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[12:30] <seb128> sladen: the main change is to talk over dbus rather than over some custom xml protocal
[12:30] <seb128> protocol
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[12:36] <wasabi> So, curiously, I don't want to start a flame war, but what's the Ubuntu firefox situation? Are we approving patches through mozilla and using the logos/name?
[12:37] <wasabi> Or are we calling it Iceweasel?
[12:37] <wasabi> I haven't heard a thing about it. Maybe I'm not paying attention.
[12:37] <funman> btw, did debian call it Iceweasel?
[12:37] <wasabi> Looks like unless god steps in, they will.
[12:37] <sladen> wasabi: as you've seen on the mailing lists.  We don't know, yet.  And mdz is the person handling the situation behind the scenes
[12:37] <wasabi> Ahh.
[12:38] <lifeless> I worry that ff will set a trend
[12:38] <mdz> for the record, mozilla has been slow to respond so things aren't moving ahead quite as much as I'd like
[12:38] <wasabi> Yeah. Agreed.
[12:38] <mdz> the last turnaround took 10 days
[12:38] <lifeless> and we'll have to rebrand gnome, kde, gcc, even 'linux'.
[12:38] <wasabi> I don't really give a hoot about the difference between copyright/trademark.
[12:38] <wasabi> I just want the rights.
[12:39] <sivang> oh dear
[12:39] <lifeless> which frankly, would suck.
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[12:39] <lifeless> that, or essentially give the upstream direct control over the quality and content of what we create. 
[12:39] <wasabi> Semantic arguments piss me off sometimes heh.
[12:39] <lifeless> would would also suck.
[12:39] <funman> i'm runnig faheurfoqs on my lee-nouks operating system
[12:39] <lifeless> funman: precisely.
[12:39] <HrdwrBoB> lifeless: that is not going to happen, it's licensed differently
[12:39] <sladen> wasabi: there are *major* differences between copyright and trademarks, please don't get them confused, or mixed up.
[12:40] <HrdwrBoB> but you are right, it's stupid
[12:40] <wasabi> sladen: I recognize the difference, but there is one end result.
[12:40] <wasabi> And that is whether I can take the work produced by Ubuntu and do what I want with it or not.
[12:40] <funman> copyright means you intellectually own something, material or not
[12:40] <funman> trademark means you commercially own a brand
[12:40] <wasabi> Copyright, trademark, patents.
[12:40] <wasabi> They are all seperate.
[12:40] <wasabi> But they all work towards the goal of preventing me from excercising freedoms. :)
[12:40] <wasabi> At the end of the day anyways.
[12:41] <sladen> wasabi: no.  With the GPL and the copyright situation, we get to keep the software (even without the name).  
[12:41] <wasabi> Sure. But we don't get to keep the logo.
[12:41] <wasabi> Or the name. :)
[12:43] <sladen> wasabi: which would you prefer;  5million lines of code, or a motif that an artist can replace in a day
[12:43] <wasabi> Depends how deep it goes.
[12:43] <wasabi> Can the packages be named "Firefox"?
[12:44] <lifeless> HrdwrBoB: AFAIK its possible to do this trick on anything that is trademarks, the right to copy license is irrelevant
[12:44] <wasabi> Hell, isn't the whole reason we use FF and not Epiphany is to ride on the name recognition? :)
[12:44] <mjg59> There's several technical mechanisms for us to ensure that apt-get firefox works
[12:44] <mjg59> ^install
[12:44] <lifeless> wasabi: no
[12:45] <wasabi> mjg59: I wonder that. I suspect If we encourage users to type "apt-get firefox" we'd be required to be allowed to use the firefox trademark. :)
[12:45] <wasabi> Ya know, since we are using their name, and users are making the association between firefox and... firefox.
[12:46] <mdz> wasabi: yes, basically
[12:47] <HrdwrBoB> basically, it's the stupidest thing ever
[12:47] <wasabi> Uh huh.
[12:48] <wasabi> Just like the patent situation.
[12:48] <mjg59> I think there's an argument that something like Provides: firefox is a technical description rather than anything in the scope of trademark law, but legal advice etc
[12:49] <wasabi> I've always found that lawyers, and especially judges, from the cases I've read, don't give a damn about "technical details" heh.
[12:49] <wasabi> Users either think they're installing firefox or not.
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[12:52] <maswan> wasabi: yeah, but on the other hand apt-get going "you said you wanted firefox, I'm going to give you earthturtle" might be ok. (or not, depending)
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[02:13] <gnomefreak> iwj: i have a question about a bug of yours if you get time
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[02:44] <exarkun> Is svn 1.4 likely to be included in edgy?
[02:47] <LaserJock> I'm thinking no as we are past the upstream version freeze
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[02:52] <exarkun> Thanks for the info
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[06:16] <Toadstool> 6
[06:16] <Toadstool> uhuh
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[06:45] <fabbione> morning guys
[06:45] <Hobbsee> hey fabbione!
[06:46] <fabbione> hi Hobbsee 
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[07:06] <fabbione> ajmitch: ping?
[07:06] <ajmitch> fabbione: pong
[07:06] <ajmitch> sorry, got caught up with other stuff as I left them to test-build
[07:06] <fabbione> ajmitch: did you upload the font pakcages?
[07:06] <ajmitch> not yet
[07:06] <fabbione> we need to transit them and finish
[07:07] <ajmitch> yep, will do it tonight
[07:07] <ajmitch> just have to sign & dput most of them
[07:07] <fabbione> ok
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[07:31] <fabbione> who does know  a little bit of c++?
[07:31] <fabbione> by little i really mean almost nothing..
[07:31] <Amaranth> depends on what you need
[07:32] <fabbione> Amaranth: hello world in cpp?
[07:32] <Amaranth> hehe
[07:32] <fabbione> i just need to test one stupid thing
[07:32] <psusi> I know C++
[07:32] <Amaranth> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C++#Hello_world_program
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[07:32] <fabbione> thanks
[07:33] <fabbione> hi
[07:33] <psusi> you ever get that dmraid setup you were going to buy? ;)
[07:34] <fabbione> psusi: i have one controller, but the disks died and no.. i didn't spend any more money on replacing them
[07:34] <fabbione> psusi: the machine had enough disk space anyway
[07:34] <psusi> doh.... bad diskcs....
[07:34] <fabbione> the dmraid was a toy
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[07:35] <psusi> mine is still running solid and fast... which is more than I can say for X
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[07:37] <psusi> what did you need about C++?
[07:37] <Hobbsee> fabbione: what was your c++ problem?
[07:37] <fabbione> psusi: well the disks in there were 5 years old 120GB that have been running 24/7 since.. i was expecting them to fail sooner or later
[07:38] <fabbione> psusi, Hobbsee: i just add to test a fix in gcc-3.3 64bit on sparc 
[07:38] <psusi> were you running smartd?  if so did it anticipate the failure?
[07:39] <fabbione> psusi: no, they just failed.. i don't bother with my storage.. everything important is on real raids and backed up.. 
[07:39] <fabbione> all my machines could die all of a sudden and i wouldn't lose more than a week of emails
=== Hobbsee wonders what that has to do with c++ :P
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[07:42] <Hobbsee> time for work.  really, this time
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[08:30] <pitti> Good morning
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[08:37] <netdur> is there vmware image ready for ubuntu/gnome development?
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[08:53] <Sp4rKY> hi
[08:53] <Sp4rKY> i'm trying to use unsquahfs but i get this error : "zlib::uncompress failed, unknown error -3"
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[09:01] <mdke> infinity: 
[09:01] <mdke> 22:29 #ubuntu-devel: < mantiena-baltix> mdke: yea, I asked dholbach about ubuntu-docs package  - why in dapper all translations were included into ubuntu-docs package,  but infinity told me, that in edgy ubuntu-docs  translations will be included into langpacks ;)
[09:02] <mdke> infinity: sadly not
[09:02] <infinity> mdke: I didn't actually say THAT, I said that "some translations appear to be stripped in the build process, which would end up in the langpacks, but I'm not sure just what those are"
[09:04] <mdke> infinity: ;) 
[09:04] <mdke> what gets stripped?
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[09:05] <infinity> ./ubuntu/desktopguide/desktopguide.pot
[09:05] <infinity> ./ubuntu/menus/menu-entries.pot
[09:05] <infinity> ./ubuntu/getting-help/getting-help.pot
[09:05] <infinity> ./ubuntu/aboutubuntu/aboutubuntu.pot
[09:05] <infinity> ./generic/packagingguide/packagingguide.pot
[09:05] <infinity> ./generic/serverguide/serverguide.pot
[09:05] <infinity> So, I imagine those would get fed into rosetta, but there's no way they'd be useful in langpacks anyway, since we wouldn't know what to do with the resulting translations.
[09:06] <mdke> ah, yes. Those get fed into Rosetta, but the resulting translations have to be got manually and put into the package
[09:06] <infinity> Yeah, I figured.
[09:07] <mdke> "got manually, beaten with a stick, and put into the package", rather
[09:07] <infinity> Why does it always have to be a stick?
[09:08] <mdke> sticks do the job
[09:08] <mjg59> infinity: We don't want to know what you'd prefer instead
[09:08] <mdke> haha
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[09:08] <infinity> Something less phallic?
[09:09] <mdke> infinity: btw, have you still got your T43?
[09:09] <infinity> mdke: Burning a  hole in my lap as we speak.
[09:09] <mdke> infinity: good. does it resume from suspend every time in Edgy?
[09:09] <infinity> Yup.
[09:09] <mjg59> His is an ATI, so probably
[09:10] <infinity> I suspend it constantly.
[09:10] <infinity> And yes, it's an ATI.
[09:10] <mjg59> The issue is Intel specific
[09:10] <infinity> My only problem is with NM being retarded.
[09:10] <mjg59> More irritatingly, it's 915 and above specific
[09:10] <mdke> oh, I thought yours was an Intel too
[09:10] <mdke> sorry
[09:10] <infinity> (On one out of ten resumes, NetworkManager decides that the ipw2200 is a wired interface, and refuses to do fancy wireless things with it)
[09:10] <Treenaks> ooh, a wired ipw2200
[09:11] <mdke> mjg59: so you're aware of the problem then. Is it resolvable?
[09:12] <robitaille> ah...that explains why my laptop doesn't always come back from suspend properly...I'm not alone :)
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[09:14] <mjg59> mdke: Well, it's software, so...
[09:14] <mdke> mjg59: right. I mean, is it resolvable in the time frame before Edgy gets released?
[09:15] <Burgundavia> robitaille: I was wondering why mine came back 50% of the time. It is quite annoying
[09:16] <mjg59> mdke: I sincerely hope so
[09:16] <mjg59> If I had the faintest idea what the problem was, I could give you a better answer
[09:16] <mdke> as far as I can see, Xorg is crashing
[09:16] <mjg59> Yes
[09:16] <mdke> ah, you need more than that, grr
[09:16] <mjg59> It's something to do with the reprogramming of the graphics chipset
[09:17] <mjg59> I need to reproduce it with current git and then get upstream to give me a tool to dump the register state
[09:17] <mdke> my error seemed to say something about AIGLX
[09:17] <mjg59> I think that's probably irrelevant
[09:17] <mdke> ok
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[09:23] <Trewas> btw my thinkpad X41 with intel 915GM is crashing on resume only with splash boot-option, with nosplash it works ok
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[09:32] <pitti> Kamion: can I bother you with approving the dapper-proposed langpacks? they really need to get out soon, we keep getting bug duplicates
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[09:34] <tfheen> Riddell: you're aware that kdebase failed to build?
[09:34] <janimo> tfheen: where is the onboard bzr repo? I can't find it on LP
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[09:35] <janimo> tfheen: I'd like to commit a change that I only added as a patch in 0.82 package but was discarded in 0.83 upload
[09:35] <tfheen> janimo: http://www.mail-archive.com/ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com/msg00738.html ?
[09:35] <infinity> pitti: Have they been through the whole new-and-improved approval process and are just waiting for ftpmaster action?>
[09:35] <janimo> tfheen: I'll look, Ia m not subsrcribed to that
[09:36] <tfheen> me neither, but it's the first google hit..
[09:36] <pitti> infinity: yes, mdz already said twice that he is fine with them
[09:36] <pitti> infinity: and we discussed the future process as well
[09:36] <infinity> pitti: Is there a paper trail for that? :)
[09:37] <infinity> pitti: If you could forward me a "yeah, they're fine with me" approval, I'll process them right now.
[09:37] <pitti> infinity: well, the emails, sure
[09:37] <infinity> pitti: Those are good enough for me, yes.
[09:38] <pitti> infinity: sent
[09:39] <pitti> infinity: while you are playing with the queue, any chance you could release cupsys (bug 54277) and hal (bug 56484), too, before they decay into bitrot?
[09:39] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 54277 in cupsys "cupsd can't access /var/log/cups/error_log permission denied" [High,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/54277
[09:39] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 56484 in hal "hal does not detect non-ATAPI CD-ROM drives" [Unknown,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/56484
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[09:42] <seb128> pitti: language-packs update for edgy still planned for today?
[09:42] <seb128> hi dholbach
[09:42] <pitti> seb128: yes
[09:42] <pitti> seb128: Riddell uploaded new KDE langpacks tonight, but they are too late for today's langpacks unfortunately
[09:42] <pitti> we might have to roll out another set in a week, but *shrug*
[09:43] <seb128> we will have an another roll before edgy anyway, no?
[09:43] <seb128> "might"
[09:43] <pitti> yes
[09:43] <seb128> I expect we will have
[09:43] <dholbach> good morning
[09:43] <dholbach> hey seb128
[09:43] <seb128> since the translations are so outdated at the moment than translators can't really work at polishing
[09:43] <pitti> seb128, Riddell: can you please test the current daily edgy langpacks?
[09:43] <seb128> k
[09:43] <infinity> pitti: hal and cups approved, langpacks on their way.
[09:44] <pitti> infinity: *hug*, thanks
[09:44] <pitti> seb128, Riddell: oh, please wait a bit still, today's are still building; I'll ping you again when they are ready
[09:44] <seb128> ok
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[09:48] <tfheen> dholbach: yay, looks like the bluetooth fix fixes the problem for most people.
[09:51] <dholbach> tfheen: and Matt filed the bluez-* syncs himself - so we seem good to go
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[09:51] <dholbach> tfheen: I got an exception for libbtctl and gnome-bluetooth too - so I'll do some tests and upload it later on
[09:52] <tfheen> dholbach: excellent!
[09:53] <dholbach> tfheen: did you file a sync bug for bluez-gnome?
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[09:55] <pitti> dholbach, infinity: dholbach, I'd like to do some rebuilds to get rid of gnutls11 in universe, so that we at least have only two versions; can I get a general approval for that? infinity, can you help me with some syncs with that (e. g. with crywrap)
[09:55] <dholbach> tfheen: I should make you honorary member of the bluetooth team on LP :-)
[09:55] <dholbach> pitti: sure
[09:55] <tfheen> dholbach: :-)
[09:55] <tfheen> dholbach: no, I didn't, I thought I asked you to?
[09:56] <dholbach> tfheen: ok I'll do it - once we have the new bluez-utils - will you do the upload changing the discovopt setting?
[09:56] <tfheen> sure, I can do that.
[09:56] <dholbach> super
[09:56] <dholbach> you have a shiny new emblem now :)
[09:56] <tfheen> or actually, if we want to change the package, no need to ask for a sync
[09:57] <dholbach> that's fine too
[09:57] <dholbach> then we just need the bluez-libs sync first
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[09:57] <tfheen> I'm sure we can get Colin or Scott to do that for us
[09:57] <dholbach> rock 
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[10:04] <xav> did mdz come to an agreement with mozilla?
[10:04] <pitti> infinity: can you please sync crywrap, echoping, kaya, and libggz? All of these are NMUs for gnutls11->13 or unintrusive maintainer uploads for the same reason
[10:05] <infinity> pitti: Those are all universe, and have dholbach's approval above?
[10:05] <pitti> infinity: yes
[10:05] <infinity> pitti: Consider it done when this for-loop from hell to accept your langpacks is finished. :)
[10:05] <pitti> infinity: main is clean wrt. openssl and gnutls13, it's just universe I'm caring about now
[10:06] <pitti> infinity: and *three* gnutls versions are too much for my taste
[10:06] <sivang> morning
[10:06] <pitti> infinity: thanks
[10:06] <pitti> infinity: after these have built, I need to bother you with three more syncs (ggz stuff)
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[10:10] <infinity> pitti: There, 232 langpacks accepted.  Oi.
[10:11] <pitti> infinity: merci
[10:11] <infinity> Now on to syncs.  Demanding children...
[10:11] <pitti> infinity: may I really stress my fortune with asking for cupsys and hal, too? :)
[10:12] <infinity> pitti: What about them? :)
[10:12] <pitti> infinity: releasing them from d-proposed
[10:12] <infinity> I already did that. :P
[10:12] <pitti> ooh, cool
[10:13] <pitti> time to ask sfllaw then
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=== pitti args about thy - it totally doesn't build at all and was removed from Debian a while ago
[10:16] <pitti> s/args/arghs/
[10:17] <infinity> pitti: That libggz upload has "Changed build system to CDBS" in the changelog.  Are you sure that's a safe upload?
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[10:17] <pitti> it's only a build system, why not?
[10:17] <mjg59> infinity: What could possibly go wrong?
[10:17] <pitti> if it FTBFSes, I'll fix it, but it works fine in Debian
[10:18] <thom> hah
[10:19] <infinity> pitti: Right, I hold you personally responsible for the mess of "hey, there's no longer a .so in the devel package" and other such bugs that come from complete repackaging. :P
[10:19] <dholbach> CDBS to the rescue! :)
[10:19] <pitti> infinity: yeah, I'll go and grab the asbesto pants in the meantime
[10:20] <pitti> go away from the archive, thy, go away!
[10:20] <tfheen> get thy away from me, purge thy from the archive's inner bowels!
[10:21] <infinity> But algernon maintains it, it must be awesome.
[10:21] <tfheen> oh well, I have to find some food now.
[10:21] <tfheen> before I die.
[10:21] <thom> dholbach: where rescue == rescuing the archive from having any content, anyway
[10:21] <thom> ;-)
[10:21] <infinity> pitti: Are you filing a removal request, or should I just kill it on the sly?
[10:22] <dholbach> thom: pfffft :-)
[10:22] <pitti> dholbach: what's the process for removing universe packages which are old, unloved, and removed from Debian? just 'whoops', or do you want an archive bug?
[10:23] <dholbach> pitti: I'm not an archive administrator - I guess they want a bug :)
[10:23] <infinity> pitti: It's not removed from Debian... It was removed from *etch* due to RC bugginess, but it's still in sid.
[10:23] <pitti> ah
[10:23] <infinity> Oh, wait.
[10:23] <infinity> WTF?
[10:23] <infinity> No, it's only in sid on kfreebsd-i386.
[10:23] <infinity> That looks more like a fuckup of some sort. :)
[10:23] <pitti> http://packages.qa.debian.org/t/thy.html says otherwise
[10:24] <pitti> dholbach: no, infinity would be fine with just killing it
[10:24] <dholbach> then kill it
[10:24] <dholbach> i'll direct the users that still want it to you guys ;)
=== infinity whacks thy and thy-auth
[10:25] <pitti> dholbach: it's the very same version and deb since hoary - plenty of releases to pull it from :)
[10:25] <dholbach> hehe :)
[10:25] <Kamion> jdong: I've cleared out dapper-backports NEW now
[10:25] <Kamion> thanks for the reminder
[10:26] <infinity> Will remove the following packages from edgy:
[10:26] <infinity>        thy |    0.9.4-1 | source, amd64, hppa, i386, ia64, powerpc, sparc
[10:26] <infinity>   thy-auth |    0.3.0-1 | source, amd64, hppa, i386, ia64, powerpc
[10:26] <infinity> ------------------- Reason -------------------
[10:26] <infinity> (adconrad) removed from Debian, buggy and unmaintained
[10:26] <infinity> ----------------------------------------------
[10:26] <infinity> Going to remove the packages now.
[10:26] <infinity> Continue (y/N)? 
[10:26] <infinity> pitti: Good 'nuff?
[10:26] <pitti> infinity: *hug*, thanks
[10:26] <geser> are binary packages (in universe) which aren't build in edgy anymore removed automagically?
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[10:26] <pitti> hi sjoerd 
[10:27] <sjoerd> morning 
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=== infinity decides to avoid stepping on Kamion's toes..
[10:30] <infinity> Kamion: Let me know when libtexttools, libaunit, libgtkada2 are all processed, since I was just about to do that and they started disappearing from the queue. :)
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[10:35] <geser> infinity: I'm trying to get an updated php4 from Debian into universe. The problem is it build-depends on both libdb4.3-dev and libdb4.4-dev (which can't be both installed at the same time). Any idea how to resolve this?
[10:36] <pitti> Kamion, tfheen: ah, I just did an OEM test install, works great now!
[10:36] <infinity> geser: Yes, I need to either update our apache2 (and its rdeps) to use db4.4, or I need to roll apache1.3 back to using db4.3
[10:36] <infinity> pitti: Did we standardise on a DB version for main for edgy, or are we just a general mish-mash this time?
[10:37] <pitti> the latter
[10:37] <thom> (please do the former :-) )
[10:37] <infinity> thom: It'll come down to whichever is the least amount of effort, really.
[10:37] <Kamion> infinity: you realise that 'queue accept' arguments take substrings? so you can just say 'queue -M accept language-pack'
[10:38] <thom> infinity: *nod*
[10:38] <infinity> Kamion: Grr, info doesn't, and I assumed that the queue item matching would work the same for any command.
[10:39] <Kamion> infinity: I was just going to process all of NEW now
[10:39] <infinity> Wait, now it does again?
[10:39] <Kamion> infinity: info does ...
[10:39] <infinity> My head hurts.
[10:39] <infinity> I swear it didn't used to.
[10:39] <Kamion> has for a while, but it used to be '\*foo\*'
[10:39] <Kamion> or '*foo*' I guess if you're quoting
[10:39] <Kamion> they changed that circa Paris
[10:40] <infinity> Yeah, I used to use the wildcard syntax before, then when that went away, I could have swore it didn't do substrings.
[10:40] <infinity> Maybe I was on crack.
[10:40] <infinity> Oh well.
[10:40] <Kamion> infinity: libtexttools, libaunit, libgtkada2 all processed
[10:40] <infinity> Kamion: Danke.
[10:40] <infinity> On both counts.
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[10:41] <tfheen> infinity,Kamion: did either of you get bluez-libs too?  I'd like to get a new bluez-utils into the archive.
[10:41] <tkamppeter> doko_, ping
[10:41] <Kamion> I haven't yet, but can shortly
[10:41] <pitti> infinity: oops, that was the ultimate dapper-changes ML DoS
[10:41] <Kamion> infinity: you forgot to use -M, right? :P
[10:41] <infinity> Kamion: Yes, it slipped my mind until you just mentioned it that langpacks are supposed to be silent.
[10:42] <infinity> I blame the nap I had right before pitti asked for the ACCEPTs.
[10:42] <infinity> Oh well, no harm done, just a bunch of annoying mail. :/
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[10:42] <AnAnt> I realize that when I plug/unplug the AC adapter, anacron get started/stopped. Also when I get connect/disconnect LAN cable, the DNS service is reloaded. How is that done ?
[10:43] <infinity> AnAnt: /etc/acpi/ac.d/ (and this is not a #-devel question)
[10:44] <AnAnt> infinity: well, they didn't know in #ubuntu+1
[10:45] <Kamion> tfheen: processing the sync request queue now
[10:45] <AnAnt> infinity: so how about the network ?
[10:45] <infinity> AnAnt: "Someone else didn't know" isn't a reason to ask random questions here.  Please try to respect that, doubly-so as we're getting close to a release.
[10:46] <Kamion> dholbach: there are lots of Ubuntu changes to bluez-utils. Do you know anything about them?
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[10:46] <infinity> I know I've made some.
[10:46] <dholbach> Kamion: don't sync it, tfheen will make some changes to it anyway
[10:47] <dholbach> Kamion: I'll comment on the bug.
[10:47] <infinity> it was all small stuff, like fixing desktop files and making the tray icon transparent, that sort of thing.
[10:47] <dholbach> Kamion: but bluez-libs would be nice
[10:47] <dholbach> infinity: I think that was gnome-bluetooth, no?
[10:47] <infinity> dholbach: Oh, so it was.  I'm a confused man today. :)
=== dholbach hugs infinity
[10:47] <infinity> dholbach: I realised that when I started looking at the changelog. :)
[10:48] <Kamion> dholbach: thanks; and yes, I've already run sync-source for bluez-libs
[10:48] <dholbach> Kamion: you ROCK! :-)
[10:48] <Kamion> er, it's not that hard :-)
[10:48] <ogra> Kamion, WOW, my ppc iso is 100MB (!!) smaller now
[10:48] <dholbach> Kamion: anyway :-)
[10:48] <infinity> We had 100MB of incorrect overrides?
[10:49] <infinity> Neat.
[10:49] <Kamion> infinity: speaking of space, could you remove /boot/initrd.img* from the squashfs, please?
[10:49] <ogra> i wasnt aware how much i already had to thrown out. ubuntu will look quite different
[10:50] <ogra> -to
[10:50] <Kamion> (bug 64887)
[10:50] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 64887 in Baltix "/boot/initrd.img*should be removed from filesystem.squashfs" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/64887
[10:50] <Kamion> infinity: s/cp/mv/ on the relevant line should do fine ...
[10:50] <Kamion> ogra: neat. you might want to put some stuff back in :-)
[10:51] <infinity> Kamion: I question the utility of vmlinu[xz]  on the filesystem too, while we're at it.
[10:51] <infinity> Kamion: System.map should be all we need in /boot.
[10:51] <fabbione> infinity: probably not even System.map
[10:52] <tfheen> infinity: vmlinuz is kinda needed for grub, no?
[10:52] <fabbione> it's not required to boot but it's nice to have
[10:52] <infinity> Don't we want System.map on the off chance we want to re-run depmod on the live system?
[10:52] <infinity> tfheen: Err, this is on the livecd.
[10:52] <tfheen> infinity: which is copied into the installed system by ubiquity.
[10:52] <infinity> tfheen: vmlinuz on the rootfs is completely useless, afaict.
[10:53] <infinity> Oh, right, ubiquity.  Feh.
=== infinity grumps.
[10:53] <tfheen> heh.
[10:53] <infinity> Okay, I'll just kill the initrd, then.
[10:53] <fabbione> infinity: well the ubiquity is another point to have it there :)
[10:53] <infinity> (Unless ubiquity wants to steal the kernel from the ISO9660 filesystem..)
[10:53] <tfheen> I guess we could teach ubiquity to copy the vmlinuz file from the cdrom, but not at this point.
[10:53] <infinity> Another day, another optimisation.
[10:53] <infinity> No pooint in doing it now.
[10:54] <infinity> I'll do the initrd thing now, though.
[10:55] <ogra> Kamion, or spoil ppc users with langpacks ;)
[10:55] <Kamion> indeed, vmlinuz needs to be there
[10:56] <Kamion> see the bug :)
[10:56] <infinity> Kamion: Yeah, I just read the log, which came to the same conclusion. :)
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[10:59] <heno> tfheen, Kamion: I've attached a patch for the a11y script to bug 58836 but I don't think it will fix the core problem
[10:59] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 58836 in gfxboot-theme-ubuntu "F5 options need to be linked to the right casper options" [Undecided,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/58836
[10:59] <heno> I'm not sure the script gets run at all
[10:59] <tfheen> uh
[11:00] <tfheen> that'd be weird.
[11:00] <heno> How do I get text output on the new usplash?
[11:00] <tfheen> remove quiet from the boot.
[11:00] <heno> ok, thx
[11:00] <tfheen> and grab /var/log/casper.log from the booted system and see if it contains any clues
[11:01] <infinity> Kamion: Are you going to remove the *ubuntu-live packages from *-meta entirely?
[11:01] <infinity> Kamion: (before release)
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[11:01] <heno> tfheen: cool, will do
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[11:11] <Kamion> infinity: hadn't thought about it, but I suppose we shoul
[11:11] <Kamion> d
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[11:12] <tkamppeter> doko_, ping
[11:13] <infinity> Kamion: Well, if I'm using tasks in livecd.sh now (and I am, as of today), and I'm doing that so you can change the tasks without changing the package, then the tasks and package will get out of sync and we won't be able to rebuild without an upload anyway.
[11:13] <infinity> Kamion: (Since the package is in the task)
[11:13] <infinity> Kamion: So, I'm pretty sure we have no choice but to drop it.
[11:16] <infinity> tfheen: I'm going to give that gettext bug a serious looking at in an hour or two (need to go buy some food to cook, then come home), and then I'll deliver a verdict.
[11:16] <tfheen> infinity: yay.
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[11:17] <tkamppeter> doko, ping
[11:17] <sivang> hmmm, why does cdrecord have to suck so much and either complain about not being suid root , or just fail with mysterious error messages?
[11:18] <Kamion> infinity: yeah, we could add to it without uploading, but not remove from it
[11:18] <Kamion> which is just confusing, frankly
[11:19] <infinity> Kamion: Right, hence why it should probably be removed. :)
[11:19] <dholbach> Kamion: thanks for bluez-gnome!
=== infinity runs out to seek food.
[11:22] <sladen> seb128: that DBUS code is going to take a while to write.  Both sections of the code that is commented are read-only, non-critical codepaths.  I'm tempted to make it "just" work by uncommenting the two sections {wifi,modem}_detect and copy those across to that package for the next release
[11:24] <seb128> sladen: what are you speaking about? the essids listing?
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[11:24] <seb128> sladen: what do you want to copy? the selected essid needs to be applied
[11:25] <seb128> sladen: you want to copy the code to the g-s-t frontend instead of doing the proper functions of it or something like that?
[11:25] <Kamion> dholbach: I'll accept it due to urgency, but please (get Debian to) correct debian/copyright to include a reference to the LGPL; several files in bluez-gnome are licensed under that
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[11:25] <Kamion> and fill out the list of copyright holders
[11:25] <dholbach> Kamion: alright, will send a patch to the maintainer
[11:25] <sladen> seb128: yes.  Those two helpers have nothing to do with /settings/ and could be called from anywhere.  If they don't get called, we have the status quo
[11:26] <dholbach> Kamion: thanks.
[11:26] <Kamion> it's not complete at least with respect to a random file in compat/ I picked
[11:26] <seb128> sladen: should work fine, I'm busy with other things to fix before edgy atm but if you want to send a patch I'll have a look on it
[11:32] <seb128> sladen: no, bug-buddy doesn't save the coredump, and it's not weird it's called instead of apport, we decided to keep it that way for now because we are not ready to take over the bug load it would generate
[11:32] <Kamion> infinity: could you comment on bug 53710, please?
[11:32] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 53710 in phpdoc "Please re-sync with debian, there's a newer version" [Undecided,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/53710
[11:33] <pitti> seb128, Riddell: ok, today's langpacks are ready for testing
[11:43] <heno> tfheen: the "Configuring accessibility options..." prompt is displayed and nothing interesting in the log AFAICT
[11:44] <Keybuk> mjg59: nice iceweasel post
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=== pitti wonders why all the buildds are idle while there is so much to be built
[11:50] <Keybuk> probably the build queue failed
[11:50] <Kamion> heno: is there an access= option in /proc/cmdline? if so, what is it?
[11:50] <Keybuk> pitti: ?
[11:50] <Keybuk> there's nothing Needs building
[11:50] <heno> Kamion: no there isn't
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[11:51] <Kamion> heno: that would be the problem then. starting from the boot screen, what exactly did you do?
[11:51] <Sp4rKY> hi
[11:51] <pitti> Keybuk: strange - there are 300 dapper langpacks and maybe 30 edgy universe uploads which need build, e.g. https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/libggz/0.0.13-2
[11:51] <heno> Kamion: er, but that I assume you mean the boot prompt line
[11:51] <Sp4rKY> please does some know how use unsquashfs over edgy ?
[11:51] <Keybuk> ah
[11:51] <Keybuk> "No builds recorded"
=== Keybuk goes to kick soyz
[11:51] <pitti> Keybuk: and that example, source libggz 0.0.13-2 is in the archive
[11:51] <Kamion> heno: I mean the graphical CD boot loader screen
[11:51] <Kamion> the one with the accessibility menu
[11:51] <Sp4rKY> i have to backport it from debian unstable and it depends of libc6 :/
[11:52] <Kamion> Sp4rKY: that dependency is autogenerated; if you build the source package on edgy, the dependency will be different
[11:52] <pitti> Keybuk: thanks
[11:52] <janimo> heno, hi is launching of onboard going to be provided in the livecd acess menu?
[11:52] <Keybuk> pitti: sequencer isn't picking up new uploads and creating build records for them
[11:52] <heno> Kamion: Press F5, select an option, press F6 to look and remove 'quiet' (optional), Press Enter to boot
[11:52] <Kamion> heno: which option?
[11:52] <Kamion> (it might matter)
[11:52] <heno> Kamion: High contrast in this case
[11:53] <janimo> Keybuk: is there a gcalctool-gtk binary in NEW and if so could you let it in main? thanks
[11:53] <Sp4rKY> Kamion: yep, but with the source package unsquashfs doesn't works :/
[11:53] <heno> which has not had any changes in the script
[11:53] <Kamion> janimo: is it seeded?
[11:53] <Kamion> (yes, it's in NEW)
[11:53] <janimo> Kamion: yes
[11:53] <janimo> as of yesterday
[11:53] <Kamion> I'll deal with it, then
[11:53] <heno> janimo: if we can get it to work now, yes :)
[11:53] <janimo> Kamion: thanks
[11:53] <janimo> heno: ok, I'll do that for the xubnutu CD as well
[11:54] <heno> janimo: cool!
[11:54] <janimo> I am looking at adding at least some xubuntu tweaks to the casper script  
[11:54] <janimo> like v1 and stikcy keys
[11:54] <heno> Kamion: "I'll deal with it, then" was that about this casper thing?
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[11:55] <maks> heya
[11:55] <heno> janimo: great! do you need any input from me?
[11:55] <Kamion> heno: no, I was talking to janimo
[11:55] <heno> ah, ok
[11:55] <Kamion> janimo: processed
[11:56] <seb128> pitti: grumpf, the control-center translated are still outdated, must be a rosetta issue
[11:56] <janimo> Kamion: thanks
[11:56] <maks> Kamion: the edgy beta desktop hangs on localization, hope the daily builds are better? :)
[11:56] <seb128> pitti: s/translated/translations I mean
[11:56] <Kamion> heno: I followed that procedure and got access=v1 at the end of /proc/cmdline
[11:56] <Kamion> maks: please be more verbose
[11:56] <Kamion> I have no idea what you're talking about
[11:56] <janimo> heno: I'll try translating the ngome gcionf settings into appropriate sed commands for the xfce config files but will ask you if there's anything
[11:56] <janimo> heno: btw I filed a patch for onboard to let it run without nautilus
[11:56] <seb128> pitti: do you have a way to see if the .pot is correctly generated at build time?
[11:57] <maks> Kamion: http://cdimage.ubuntulinux.org/daily-live/current/edgy-desktop-i386.iso.torrent was not able to install
[11:57] <Kamion> maks: that's not more verbose, that's actually less verbose
[11:57] <Kamion> you're not telling me e.g. the error message
[11:57] <heno> Kamion: is /proc/cmdline the boot option line on the Live CD or an actual path in the system?
[11:57] <Kamion> I suggest you file a bug
[11:57] <Kamion> heno: 'cat /proc/cmdline' from a terminal
[11:57] <pitti> seb128: carlos will notice if it is not generated at all, but we cannot detect outdated versions (e. g. if the pot is shipped in the source package)
[11:57] <Sp4rKY> Kamion: i get this error when i try a mount -o loop -t squshfs ...
[11:57] <Sp4rKY> SQUASHFS error: sb_bread failed reading block 0x992a8
[11:57] <Sp4rKY> SQUASHFS error: unable to read uid/gid table
[11:57] <Kamion> heno: /proc/cmdline is a kernel-simulated "file" that provides the contents of the kernel command line
[11:57] <heno> Kamion: ok, I didn't not check that
[11:58] <heno> ok, thanks for explaining
[11:58] <pitti> seb128: do you have an example string that I could check?
[11:58] <seb128> pitti: all the first tab of the gnome-sound-properties capplet
[11:58] <seb128> pitti: "Sound Playback:"
[11:58] <Kamion> heno: if the output has access=<something> at the end, it's a casper/something-else bug; if it doesn't, it's a gfxboot-theme-ubuntu bug
[11:59] <maks> Kamion:  no i don't have an account on launchpad and in 5 min the daily build is here, if it hangs again i'll bug you with the error message from the logs
[11:59] <pitti> seb128: indeed, they are English for me as well; let me have a look
[11:59] <seb128> pitti: my local build is fine, upstream translations are working
[11:59] <Kamion> maks: ok, I'm happy to deal with an error message but I'm sure you can understand that "hangs on localization" is not something I can get my teeth into
[11:59] <seb128> pitti: the language pack .mo have no mention of those strings though
[11:59] <Kamion> maks: (BTW my kernel hangs on PCI)
[12:00] <Kamion> (P.S. I lied)
[12:00] <maks> :-P
[12:01] <heno> Kamion: right, I do get access=v1 as well on /proc/cmdline
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[12:02] <dholbach> infinity: could you please comment on bug 65266?
[12:02] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 65266 in php4 "[UVF Exception]  Sync php4 4.4.4 from Debian unstable" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65266
[12:03] <Fujitsu> php4 4.4.4, I like it.
[12:03] <maks> Kamion last message is "Set d-i/locale = 'en_US.UTF8
[12:03] <heno> seb128: Thanks for patching the at preferences, works nicely! Now we just need to get rid of the extra menu items in Applications -> Accessibility. Shall I file a separate bug about that?
[12:03] <Kamion> heno: I think I see the problem
[12:03] <heno> Kamion: \o/
[12:03] <pitti> seb128: indeed, the German file from Rosetta has
[12:03] <pitti> "POT-Creation-Date: 2006-06-15 17:56+0000\n"
[12:03] <pitti> "PO-Revision-Date: 2006-08-25 22:57+0000\n"
[12:03] <Kamion> maks: try starting the installer with 'sudo env UBIQUITY_DEBUG=1 ubiquity' and putting the log somewhere I can see
[12:03] <seb128> heno: np, just tell me  what changes are to do on the chan, I'll do them now
[12:03] <Kamion> maks: oh, the log = /var/log/installer/syslog + /var/log/installer/debug
[12:04] <seb128> pitti: any idea of why?
[12:04] <pitti> seb128: let me find the translations tarball
[12:04] <Kamion> heno: gconf_version=$(chroot /root /usr/bin/dpkg-query -W --showformat='${Version}' gconf-2 2>/dev/null) || gconf_version=""
[12:04] <Kamion> heno: the package is called gconf2, not gconf-2
[12:04] <heno> seb128: just remove the onboard, onboard settings and orca menu entries. That way we get rid of the Accessibility menu completely
[12:05] <seb128> pitti: intltool-update: POTFILES.in not found.
[12:05] <seb128> pitti: ok, that's because the package is build out of the srcdir
[12:05] <maks> Kamoin: thanks not reproducible in DEBUG mode
[12:05] <Kamion> just trying out the fix now
[12:05] <Kamion> maks: !
[12:05] <seb128> pitti: so the build po/ has no POTFILES.in
[12:05] <Kamion> maks: try from a fresh boot
[12:05] <seb128> pitti: I'll fix it now
[12:05] <Kamion> maks: debug mode isn't meant to magically make problems go away ;-)
[12:05] <maks> we are trying from fresh reboot
[12:05] <seb128> pitti: would be nice if we had a page or something listing packages without a .pot though :/
[12:06] <pitti> seb128: yeah
[12:06] <pitti> seb128: indeed, translation tarball only has debian/build/help/control-center.pot
[12:06] <sivang> does anybody know if cdrecord ever supported burning into DVDs and/or blanking them?
[12:06] <heno> Kamion: sounds good, so that must have been changed during edgy some time I guess
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[12:07] <pitti> sivang: that's traditionally growisofs' job
[12:07] <pitti> sivang: our cdrecord does not have dvd extensions
[12:07] <sivang> right, so that's why I'm getting those terrible cryptic 'not supported' messages :)
[12:07] <Kamion> heno: yes, r293 on 6 September
[12:07] <Kamion> works now
[12:08] <sivang> pitti: so I should use dvd+rw tools instead , thanks
[12:08] <heno> woooo!
[12:10] <Kamion> tfheen: want to check my casper commit and upload that?
[12:10] <Riddell> pitti: language packs working fine
[12:11] <pitti> Riddell: they don't contain last night's updates, though
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[12:11] <tfheen> Kamion: checking
[12:11] <pitti> Riddell: is it ok for you if we do another update right before release to pick them up?
[12:12] <seb128> pitti: out of that issue update looks fine to me
[12:12] <tfheen> Kamion: oh, I suck.  Feel free to upload.
[12:13] <tfheen> (I'm in the middle of the bluez-utils merge)
[12:13] <pitti> seb128: with some manual hackery (shouldn't take more than 20 minutes) I can smuggle the po files in and trigger a rebuild
[12:14] <seb128> pitti: would be nice, thank you
[12:14] <seb128> pitti: if you update them next week again that should work though
[12:14] <Riddell> pitti: that would be great
[12:14] <seb128> it just don't give the week for translators to fix issues they might notice
=== pitti takes out his shell hacking fingers
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[12:17] <Kamion> tfheen: ok
[12:18] <Keybuk> tfheen: random question; I modified /etc/mailman/en/*.html, ran arch by hand, and they changed -- but in the automatic run, it ignores my templates
[12:19] <tfheen> Keybuk: "they changed" meaning the archives changed or the templates changed?
[12:19] <tfheen> there are per-list templates too
[12:19] <Keybuk> archives
[12:19] <tfheen> unsure if that plays in
[12:23] <pitti> seb128: ok, hacking finished, new edgy langpacks are building
=== seb128 hugs pitti
[12:27] <seb128> pitti: control-center with fixed pot build uploaded from my side
[12:27] <Keybuk> tfheen: maybe it's just cached in memory?
=== Keybuk tries restarting mailman
[12:27] <pitti> seb128: *hug*
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[12:30] <maks> Kamion: daily build works, so we'll happily showoff this one for the teaching class
[12:31] <Kamion> ok, cool
[12:31] <Kamion> I've fixed a few things since beta, some of which touched localisation
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[12:43] <infinity> Kamion: Commented.
[12:45] <infinity> dholbach: And yours too.
=== dholbach hugs infinity
[12:48] <seb128> sladen: have you tried apport-retrace --download-debug to download automatically the debug packages for a given crash?
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[12:51] <sladen> seb128: I don't think that helps if apport didn't catch the crash and you're just trying to get the correct ones installed for bug buddy next time
[12:52] <seb128> sladen: if you use bug-buddy that's not really apport's job, might be better place to apt
[12:52] <seb128> sladen: like apt-get debug-dep package
[12:52] <seb128> like build-dep
[12:54] <infinity> Yeah, I argued in Paris that "apt-get debug apache" should get me apache's debug symbols, plus symbols for all the dependencies.
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[12:54] <Kamion> heno: oh, sorry, I didn't incorporate your accessibility update - feel free to reopen that bug if that's still required
[12:54] <dholbach> infinity: that'd be soooo good
[12:55] <Kamion> heno: (or perhaps a fresh bug would be better at this point)
[12:56] <Kamion> mvo: could you clarify what you meant by "server install" in bug 60415? i.e. "Install a server" from the alternate install CD (now "Install a command-line system") or a normal install from the server CD?
[12:56] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 60415 in debian-installer "English keyboard on german install" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/60415
[12:56] <Kamion> infinity: thanks
[12:59] <mvo> Kamion: IIRC it was a "command-line-system" install, let me try to reproduce it
[01:00] <Kamion> it's curious, I haven't yet tried to reproduce it (although I will, if you still can), but I don't know why a command-line install would affect that
[01:01] <Kamion> oh, unless the lack of X is relevant; that could be ...
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[01:04] <mvo> Kamion: ok, give me some minutes to check it again
[01:05] <Kamion> or I can do it, just talking about it gave me an idea for a possible cause
=== Kamion thanks mvo for being a volunteer pot plant ;-)
[01:07] <Kamion> my test rig's doing a netboot install at the moment which is obviously a bit slow
[01:09] <mvo> Kamion: no problem, my test-upgrade just finished, the machine has spare cycles :)
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[01:19] <mvo> Kamion: no, can't reproduce it anymore, its all fine now. strange thing
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[01:26] <tfheen> hmm, why does ndiswrapper even build stuff on ppc?
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[01:27] <tfheen> dholbach: you're closing #56651 once bluez-gnome is synced?
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[01:31] <janimo> Kamion: gcalctool-gtk did not show up yet in the archive, is the publishing delay this large?
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[01:36] <seb128> do we have a snapshot.ubuntu.com?
[01:36] <dholbach> launchpad! :)
[01:36] <seb128> it has all the previous source packages stored?
[01:37] <dholbach> yes, at least the ones since we use soyuz
[01:37] <dholbach> tfheen: should it be in supported or something?
[01:37] <dholbach> anyway, I wanted to be running already - see you later :)
[01:37] <seb128> rock on 
[01:37] <tfheen> dholbach: I think it should be in supported or something, yes.
[01:38] <dholbach> tfheen: I add the MIR on my list
[01:38] <dholbach> tfheen: if cheerleading is needed it'd be nice if you could jump in
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[01:38] <tfheen> dholbach: will do, thanks.
[01:38] <dholbach> cool
[01:38] <dholbach> seeya
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[01:46] <kristog> hello
[01:49] <Kamion> janimo: malcc was running the publisher by hand, and probably only re-enabled it recently
[01:50] <Kamion> mvo: oh, it could easily have been fixed by console-setup 1.7ubuntu12 or similar
[01:51] <Kamion> thanks for re-testing
[01:52] <mvo> Kamion: cheers
[01:52] <mvo> Kamion: I closed it already
[02:00] <kristog> dholbach, tfheen  how i can help you with bluez-* ?
[02:00] <tfheen> kristog: it's all trickling in now, so I think we're fine, actually.
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[02:03] <kristog> tfheen, cool :)
[02:03] <tfheen> kristog: I just uploaded a new bluez-utils (3.7) package, we've synced bluez-libs and are syncing bluez-gnome
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[02:07] <heno> dholbach: will you pull the upstream patch for bug 59531 ?
[02:07] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 59531 in gnome-desktop "Add a 'Quit Orca' button" [Unknown,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/59531
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[02:17] <dholbach> tfheen: pybluez is in incoming - we need to sync that too
[02:17] <dholbach> heno: need to look at it - i'll just get lunch, then do it
[02:18] <heno> cool, thx
[02:18] <tfheen> dholbach: what do we need it for?
[02:18] <dholbach> tfheen: it's needed, because it works with bluez-libs 3.7 
[02:18] <dholbach> the other does not - iirc
[02:19] <tfheen> dholbach: *shrug*; it's universe so feel free.
[02:20] <dholbach> already did it for bluez-hcidump
[02:20] <dholbach> i'll do it, when i get back from lunch - on my list
[02:21] <tfheen> doko__: what's up with 63864?
[02:21] <dholbach> can somebody get libbtctl through binary NEW?
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[02:23] <dholbach> oh, it already is
[02:23] <dholbach> yeehaw
[02:27] <tfheen> mvo: 63183 - is it crucial for 6.10, you think?
[02:29] <mvo> tfheen: not likely, it seems that it is caused by a locally installed python module - it would still be good if it could be fixed IMNSHO opinion there is no point in the postinst script failing 
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[02:30] <tfheen> mvo: I can't see any responses from the submitter though
[02:30] <funman> hello
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[02:33] <tfheen> doko__: also, if you could answer iwj in #57161, that'd be good.
[02:33] <mvo> tfheen: right, but I was not able to reproduce it on a normal upgrade and doko thinkgs that this is the most likely explaination
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[02:35] <tfheen> mvo: also, have you gotten access to the popcon logs and found out how to solve the "duplicated hostid" problem?
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[02:36] <mvo> tfheen: no, no response from my rt ticket yet unfortunately - no access and no logs :/
[02:36] <mvo> I pinged again monday (IIRC) but still nothing
[02:36] <tfheen> mvo: what's the ticket #?
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[02:38] <mvo> tfheen: #16960
[02:38] <tfheen> mvo: thanks, I'll go prod the sysadmins now. :-)
[02:39] <mvo> tfheen: thanks :)
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[02:42] <heno> Kamion: here is a new bug 65297
[02:42] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 65297 in casper "change gnopernicus -> orca and gok -> onboard in script" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65297
[02:42] <heno> Use the second patch pls, as it fixes another bug too
[02:42] <pitti> infinity: do you have a minute to sync the remaining ggz packages now? libggz has built everywhere and is in the archive
[02:43] <pitti> infinity: it's ggz-client-libs, ggz-kde-client, and ggz-kde-games
[02:43] <pitti> infinity: (all universe, just for gnutls11 transition)
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[02:44] <infinity> pitti: Can do.
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[02:47] <infinity> pitti: Done.
[02:47] <pitti> seb128, Riddell: new langpacks have built, please test again
[02:47] <pitti> infinity: thank you
[02:47] <tfheen> pitti: why is the mysql-server security vulnerability 6.10-critical?  It'd surely be nice to have in, but we haven't hold up releases in the past for similar issues.
[02:48] <pitti> tfheen: the part that's milestone'ish is mdz's decision whether we want to sync 5.0.24a from Debian or just apply the security patches
[02:48] <pitti> tfheen: in the latter case, we don't need the milestone
[02:49] <pitti> tfheen: but I would still like to settle it today, just awaiting mdz's reply 
[02:49] <tfheen> pitti: oh, you might want to subscribe the release team then. :-P
[02:49] <tfheen> pitti: or mdz, since he's not subbed either (or maybe he's part of the security team, I'm not sure)
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[02:49] <pitti> tfheen: the discussion went on over private mail between him, me, and infinity 
[02:50] <xeros> I have the symptoms of old bug 14911 now in firefox 2.0rc2 - can someone else admit that he has it, too?
[02:50] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 14911 in firefox "Flash plugin problem with ARGB visuals causes crash" [Unknown,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/14911
[02:51] <tfheen> pitti: ok, goodie.  I'll shut up, then
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[02:52] <tfheen> mvo: znarl's either giving you access or putting the files somewhere you can get at them.
[02:52] <mantiena> pitti, hi, how are you doing ?
[02:52] <pitti> mantiena: hi! fine, thanks, and you?
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[02:53] <tfheen> Spads: have you had a chance to retest a daily on any of the xserves or the pb in the office?  (Re bug #64198)
[02:53] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 64198 in xserver-xorg-video-ati "LiveCD can't start X on Apple Xserve or PowerBook" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/64198
[02:53] <doko> Kamion, tfheen: 63864 is not relevant for the default installation; the default style is now selected for non-KDE and non-GTK installations; if we want to be fool-proof again, we have to include the 4MB default icons on the CD
[02:54] <tfheen> doko__: hmm, ok.  Is it a recommends or similar?
[02:54] <Spads> tfheen: we tried a daily on the pb in the office on monday/tuesday
[02:54] <Spads> tfheen: livecd couldn't get X up, but installing dapper and upgrading worked fine
[02:54] <doko> tfheen: 57161, I'm trying to fix that on the eclipse side, too late for firefox changes
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[02:55] <pitti> seb128: yay translated control-center
[02:55] <tfheen> doko__: or maybe have it depend on one of the icon styles (or-ed)?
[02:55] <doko> Package: openoffice.org-common
[02:55] <doko> Depends: openoffice.org-style-default | openoffice.org-style-industrial | openoffice.org-style-crystal
[02:55] <tfheen> doko__: 57161 > ok, thanks.
[02:55] <tfheen> then how has he managed to not have any of them installed? (Or did I misread the bug report?)
[02:56] <tfheen> Spads: weird, ok.  If you could test with yesterdays or todays or so, that'd be good since Fabio thinks he might have fixed it.
[02:56] <Spads> tfheen: I'll try burning one now
[02:56] <doko> I added openoffice.org-style-default in the last upload. the problem is, that OOo doesn't explicitely check for installed icon sets.
[02:56] <tfheen> Spads: thanks a lot
[02:57] <tfheen> doko: .. ok.  Is that hard to fix?  (As in, do you think we can get it done for the release?)
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[02:57] <mantiena> pitti, almost ;) I still can't write regexp, which allows [ and ]  symbols in /etc/pmount.allow :(
[02:58] <doko> tfheen: hmm, lacking time ... the choices in the UI are static at the moment
[02:58] <tfheen> doko: ok.  I don't think it should be 6.10-targetted, then.  Was it you or somebody else who added the target?
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[02:59] <doko> tfheen: I did want to have the -default dependency in, which is done now. maybe remove the target
[02:59] <tfheen> doko: ok, I'll remove it then.
[02:59] <tfheen> doko: thanks.
[03:00] <doko> seb128, Riddell: can an application see, if it was invoked from the gnome/kde/whatever menu?
[03:01] <mantiena> pitti, yours yesterdays solution - whitelist_regex = "^[[:space:] ] *([[:alnum:] /_+*.\[\] \-] +)[[:space:] ] *(#.*)?$"; doesn't work at all
[03:01] <mantiena> pitti, but whitelist_regex = "^[[:space:] ] *([[:alnum:] /_+*.\-] +)[[:space:] ] *(#.*)?$"; works fine
[03:01] <Kamion> doko: I agree with you that it is not release-critical, but the reporter(s) are entirely correct that the program should not break if you don't have those packages installed and try to select the styles. IMO you're missing the point by telling them to install the packages.
[03:02] <pitti> mantiena: but I told you that \[ doesn't work, you have to put ]  as the first character into the set
[03:02] <Kamion> ... although I see tfheen said the same already
[03:02] <pitti> mantiena: please read regex(7)
[03:02] <Kamion> mantiena: having - as anything other than the first or last character in the [...]  class is also wrong
[03:02] <tfheen> Kamion: yeah; I just noted in the bug that it's obviously a bug, but we don't have the resources to fix it before release.
[03:02] <Kamion> oh, you do have it as the last character - never mind
[03:03] <mantiena> pitti, you told, that I must use \- as last character ;)
[03:03] <pitti> mantiena: right
[03:03] <pitti> mantiena: and also that ]  must be the first
[03:03] <doko> Kamion: I don't deny that. my current fix was to have a sane default installation. the bug is certainly still there.
[03:04] <mantiena> pitti, hehe, it seems I didn't noticed you talks about first ;)
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[03:06] <infinity> tfheen: Meh, I concede defeat on grounds of inconvenience.  There are a few too many RCS revisions to hack here without spending a couple of hours in a text editor.
[03:06] <tfheen> infinity: grr, ok.
[03:07] <tfheen> infinity: that leaves us with the choice between applying said 23MB diff and having gettext not work correctly with auto{conf,make}, right?
[03:07] <Riddell> doko: no
[03:08] <infinity> tfheen: Sounds like it, yes.
[03:08] <Riddell> doko: but you can have two .desktop files one of which is OnlyShowIn=|Gnome and one is NotShowIn=Gnome
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[03:10] <AlinuxOS> Kamion, hello, would you be so kind to tell me the exact time of deadline for nonpack transaltions in Edgy?
[03:11] <dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyReleaseSchedule
[03:11] <Kamion> AlinuxOS: no
[03:12] <AlinuxOS> dholbach, I know
[03:12] <tfheen> Keybuk: on a scale from 1 through 10, how confident are you that the new gettext won't blow up the world?
[03:12] <AlinuxOS> it's tommorow night or day? :)
[03:12] <doko> Riddell: doesn't help. I have a program, that goes in interactive mode, when it fails to import the python Qt bindings; so I just want to have a gtk warning dialog, when it's started from the menu. what is DESKTOP_STARTUP_ID?
[03:12] <Kamion> mantiena: "\-" is not a character in a regex class
[03:12] <tfheen> AlinuxOS: it's tomorrow morning.
[03:12] <Kamion> mantiena: it is two characters, "\" and "-"
[03:12] <AlinuxOS> tfheen, thank you.
[03:12] <Kamion> AlinuxOS: even if I could tell you an exact time, it is a horribly bad idea for you to rely on it
[03:13] <tfheen> probably a bit after I've had breakfast tomorrow.
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[03:14] <Keybuk> tfheen: well, it's been in unstable for a while
[03:14] <tfheen> AlinuxOS: I'd not recommend against relying on any particular point in time.  Maybe we'll freeze earlier or later.
[03:14] <Spads> tfheen: so this may be a dumb question, but cdimage only has up to daily-live/20061009
[03:14] <AlinuxOS> Kamion, the problem is not time...the problem is that I've some translated ready modules, but import exports are very slow.
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[03:15] <Spads> tfheen: where should I go for today's?
[03:15] <Keybuk> tfheen: though there is a serious bug filed against it there
[03:15] <Kamion> Spads: if it's not on cdimage, it didn't build, or didn't mirror successfully
[03:15] <AlinuxOS> consider that yesterday (day) I've requested debian-installer .po file and I've recieved it only today.
[03:15] <tfheen> Keybuk: it seems to have blown up a bit there, yes.
[03:15] <Kamion> http://people.ubuntu.com/~henrik/winfoss/edgy/ubuntu/current/ubuntu-winfoss-6.10
[03:15] <Kamion> .tar.gz:
[03:15] <Kamion> heno: please fix?
[03:15] <Keybuk> "The new upstream version of gettext has improved checking of .po file syntax, which unfortunately is causing a number of build failures in unstable now."
[03:15] <Kamion> 07:43:00 ERROR 403: Forbidden.
[03:16] <AlinuxOS> Kamion, I've debian-installer help file too, yesterday I've uploaded it...but it's not uploaded yet.
[03:16] <Keybuk> did infinity's rcs hacking attempts fail?
[03:16] <Kamion> AlinuxOS: I'm sorry, but none of this is my problem
[03:16] <heno> Kamion: looking
[03:16] <Kamion> if it's too late, for whatever reason, it's too late, unless it's release-critical in which case we can consider exceptions
[03:16] <tfheen> Keybuk: yes, he gave up.
[03:17] <pitti> doko, doko__: ok for you if I freshen ia32-libs now?
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[03:17] <Kamion> AlinuxOS: I'm not going to be sitting there at the keyboard hitting "reload" until I get the absolute latest translations
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[03:17] <infinity> Keybuk: Fail is the wrong word, it just looks like a few more hours than I'd prefer to spend in a text editor.  If we decide that's really the ONLY option, I can spend a day hating myseld and doing it.
[03:17] <infinity> Keybuk: I punted the bug back to you in the meantime.
[03:17] <mantiena> pitti, Kamion: So, I should use: whitelist_regex = "^[[:space:] ] *([\] \[[:alnum:] /_+*.\-] +)[[:space:] ] *(#.*)?$";  ???
[03:18] <AlinuxOS> Kamion, loool I uderstand you but I'm working too...and infrastructure is too slow..it's not my fault.
[03:18] <pitti> mantiena: [\] \[ looks wrong to me
[03:18] <pitti> mantiena: it should be [] [ ... ]  according to the docs
[03:18] <Kamion> AlinuxOS: and what I'm saying is that if your translation doesn't make it, I'm sorry, but I won't be held responsible
[03:18] <pitti> mantiena: but if it works that way, fine for me
[03:18] <infinity> AlinuxOS: Many of my late deliverables "aren't my fault" either, but despite my being on the release team, I'm not allowed to make exceptions for myself. :)
[03:19] <infinity> AlinuxOS: If you're not on time, you're not on time, and there's always next time.
[03:19] <Kamion> "get the translation in as fast as you can" is the only guideline that can workk
[03:19] <Kamion> work
[03:19] <AlinuxOS> :)
[03:19] <doko> pitti: no problem, maybe -gtk and -kde are worth updating as well
[03:19] <Kamion> you're not supposed to try to get things in exactly on the deadline
[03:19] <AlinuxOS> infinity, I'll do it manually this evening! :) And I'll be in time :) 
[03:19] <pitti> doko: bah, it fails at linux-kernel-headers
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[03:20] <pitti> doko: I guess linux-headers-generic is the replacement?
[03:20] <mantiena> pitti, ok, I will try. Btw, did you tried to mount any hard disk partition, whitelisted in /etc/pmount.allow with nautilus (from computer: location) ?
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[03:20] <pitti> mantiena: no, I didn't
[03:21] <tfheen> Keybuk: so, it seems like it hasn't blown up that much in unstable, or at least not that much we care about.  *ponders*
[03:21] <heno> Kamion: fixed
[03:21] <doko> pitti: hmm, no
[03:21] <AlinuxOS> Kamion, infinity I'm not discussing...I've just asked you :) I know that you are very busy...+ I want thank you simply for your work.
[03:21] <sfllaw> pitti: Got your SRU e-mails.  Thanks.
[03:21] <Kamion> heno: thanks
[03:21] <Kamion> I'll kick off new builds
[03:21] <pitti> doko: ah, linux-libc-dev rather
[03:21] <pitti> sfllaw: hi! thanks
[03:22] <tfheen> Kamion: thanks.
[03:22] <tfheen> Kamion: could you please tell Spads when they're done too?
[03:23] <doko> pitti: yes
[03:23] <dholbach> hm, bluez-gnome "needs building" - can somebody do something about that? :-)
[03:24] <Spads> tfheen: thanks
[03:24] <infinity> dholbach: I can make it need harder?
[03:24] <dholbach> infinity: that'd be very nice :)
[03:25] <infinity> Alright, now it has a MIGHTY need to build.
[03:25] <dholbach> and I was wrong the new libbtctl binaries aren't out of NEW yet
[03:25] <Kamion> I'll deal with that now
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=== dholbach hugs infinity
=== dholbach hugs Kamion too
[03:27] <Kamion> done
[03:27] <dholbach> heno: what was the plan for orca? apply the upstream patch?
[03:27] <infinity> dholbach: Slut.
[03:27] <dholbach> Kamion: Thanks a lot.
[03:27] <dholbach> infinity: come on! you have those days too... ...
[03:27] <infinity> *cough*
[03:28] <infinity> Yes, some days I also need ot "walk my dog" more than usual.
[03:28] <dholbach> hahahaha
[03:28] <heno> dholbach: You suggested looking at it in the bug comments and I agree that it's a good option
[03:28] <dholbach> heno: ok - so I try both and look which one is better?
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[03:29] <heno> dholbach: well ours is better :) But with theirs we stay in sync
[03:29] <heno> speaking of the turtle :)
[03:29] <heno> we were just looking at the orca Quit patches
[03:30] <dholbach> heno, tortoise_: if you or TheMuso agrees on updating the patch for every release and maintaining it, I'm happy to upload it
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[03:31] <dholbach> heno, tortoise_, TheMuso: that's your choice
[03:31] <seb128> doko: not really, look at environment variables makes the trick
[03:31] <tfheen> dholbach: I'd like to get it in quite quickly though; 6.10-targetted and all.
[03:31] <heno> dholbach: I would say go with the upstream one. We'll try to get the difference pushed into upstream as well this cycle (2.17)
[03:32] <doko> seb128: yes, hacked that together
[03:32] <heno> dholbach: the main point is the Quit button, which both have
[03:32] <dholbach> tfheen: I don't intend to have a longer discussion about it.
[03:32] <tortoise_> dholbach: Is this the at-properties patch?
[03:32] <dholbach> tortoise_: orca quite, bug 59531
[03:32] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 59531 in gnome-desktop "Add a 'Quit Orca' button" [Unknown,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/59531
[03:32] <lastnode> sfllaw, ping
[03:32] <dholbach> s/quite/quit
[03:33] <heno> tortoise_: the at-properties one is in place and working
[03:33] <tortoise_> heno: Whats the difference between mine and the upstream?
[03:34] <heno> tortoise_: yours has the Apply button and close instead of cancel
[03:34] <heno> tortoise_: yours is a bit more useable for magnifier users I think
[03:34] <tortoise_> heno: Didn't I make that a separate patch?
[03:35] <heno> tortoise_: right, so it's just Close vs. Cancel
[03:35] <heno> a semantic difference really
[03:35] <Riddell> doko: I see no DESKTOP_STARTUP_ID
[03:35] <heno> to be discussed with the gnome usability people
[03:36] <tortoise_> heno: Does the upstream one have an apply button?
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[03:36] <heno> tortoise_: no
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[03:36] <heno> don't think so (checking again)
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[03:37] <pitti> doko: yup, refreshing and fixing -gtk and -kde now, too
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[03:37] <mantiena> pitti, So, I have one usability problem when click on any hard disk partition, whitelisted in /etc/pmount.allow with nautilus (from computer: location) - it mounts fine, but nautilus still displays unmounted disk icon and doesn't enter inside partition when I click on it :(
[03:38] <dholbach> heno, tortoise_: the upstream patches don't apply at all :-(((
[03:38] <mantiena> pitti, I can see partition content only when I press refresh button in nautilus :(
[03:38] <pitti> mantiena: hm, does hal pick up the mount?
[03:38] <heno> dholbach: so then it's an easier choice :)
[03:38] <mantiena> pitti, I don't understand you, what you mean ?
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[03:39] <dholbach> heno: ok - since the other patches are in 2.17 already we get them for free for ... edgy+1
[03:39] <heno> dholbach: we can even drop the patch in the Edgy+1 merge again, because it's so close to theirs
[03:39] <heno> right
[03:39] <pitti> mantiena: do you see a difference in the mounted attribues in lshal before and after mounting?
[03:39] <heno> dholbach: do Chris' patches apply?
[03:39] <dholbach> heno: lemme check
[03:40] <dholbach> heno: cleanly (if done in the right order ;-))
[03:40] <mantiena> pitti, I will try
[03:41] <infinity> dholbach: Uh...
[03:41] <dholbach> infinity: hm?
[03:41] <infinity> dholbach: The bluez-gnome currently building is 0.5-2, but there's a 0.5-2ubuntu1 that was in queue/new.. Did you really want that one instead?
[03:41] <dholbach> infinity: I can reupload - that's fine
[03:41] <infinity> (I suspect someone only accepted the sync and not the merge)
[03:41] <dholbach> infinity: or bump the version, that's fine too
[03:41] <infinity> dholbach: No need to reupload, I can accept it now.
[03:42] <infinity> dholbach: Just wanted to know if you want it. :)
[03:42] <dholbach> infinity: cool - I just changed the copyright after Colin accepted it
[03:42] <dholbach> if 2ubuntu1 builds later today that's fine too :-)
[03:42] <Kamion> I accepted the sync, yes, but another one might have come through before the overrides were committed
[03:42] <infinity> Right, I'll accept the ubuntu revision now, and push the sync binaries through NEW, so the rest will go without intervention.
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=== dholbach hugs infinity
[03:43] <tortoise_> dholbach: I'll maintain it if you upload it, I think (hope) the current orca config is going to be redone in a more gnome-ish way at some point anyway
[03:43] <Keybuk> tfheen: I leave the decision up to you, oh release master, you
[03:43] <tfheen> Keybuk: lucky me. :-P
[03:43] <dholbach> tortoise_: thanks a lot
[03:45] <heno> \o/
[03:45] <infinity> dholbach: All better.
[03:45] <dholbach> *phew*
[03:45] <heno> the a11y stuff is really falling into place today
[03:45] <jdong> Kamion: did you get my poke yesterday about binary NEW/ backports?
[03:46] <infinity> jdong: He processed them, no?
[03:46] <Kamion> jdong: yeah, and I replied to say I'd done them and thanks for the reminder
[03:46] <jdong> Kamion: oh cool, when did you do them?
[03:46] <Kamion> about four or five hours ago
[03:46] <jdong> cool
[03:46] <jdong> thankie
[03:47] <jdong> oh yeah, another thing, Kamion....
[03:47] <jdong> bug 63842 has been granted UVFe for over a week now with no activity... I was told it needs sync approval from ubuntu-archive?
[03:47] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 63842 in avidemux "UVF Exception Request: x264 to svn20060928 from marillat" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63842
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[03:48] <Kamion> jdong: I was waiting for a member of ubuntu-dev to actually request the sync
[03:48] <seb128> pitti: new language packs look good, and control-center is translated correctly ;)
[03:48] <Kamion> jdong: you said it needed an avidemux rebuild
[03:48] <pitti> seb128: ok, I'll ask malcc/cprov to upload
[03:48] <seb128> cool
[03:48] <Kamion> jdong: and you asked slomo/nafallo to ask for the sync, which neither of them has yet
[03:48] <jdong> Kamion: ok, so you need a dev to actually do the sync request?
[03:48] <pitti> doko__: there is no new stuff for ia32-libs-kde, I'll skip that
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[03:48] <Kamion> jdong: yes - syncs are like uploads in that respect
[03:49] <Kamion> we need at least confirmation from somebody who could ordinarily do the upload
[03:49] <jdong> Kamion:  slomo I believe is on vacation... and crimsun is waiting for the sync :)
[03:49] <jdong> ok
[03:49] <Kamion> just get somebody to say "yes, I've checked that over and it's ok"
[03:49] <doko> pitti: even better :)
[03:49] <jdong> Kamion: ok
[03:49] <Kamion> preferably in conjunction with actually checking it over ;-)
[03:49] <jdong> :)
[03:49] <jdong> thanks :)
[03:50] <heno> Kamion: did you ever look at applying that run-orca-as-root hack to ubiquity?
[03:50] <Kamion> if the comments from siretart and dholbach were intended as sync approval, that's fine too, but I wasn't sure
[03:50] <Kamion> heno: oh, no, I guess I should ...
[03:50] <Kamion> is there a bug for it?
[03:52] <heno> Kamion: it started with bug 59250
[03:52] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 59250 in ubiquity "ubiquity makes at-poke hang" [Undecided,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/59250
[03:52] <heno> Kamion: but we followed up on email
[03:53] <heno> Kamion: only if you have time. There is a reasonable workaround for it too
[03:53] <Kamion> heno: oh, I think I was waiting for the orca script to be put somewhere
[03:53] <heno> (run both as root manually)
[03:53] <Kamion> since dholbach reckoned it should live in gnome-orca
[03:54] <Kamion> has that been done?
[03:54] <heno> Kamion: yes, that's working
[03:54] <Kamion> ok
=== heno is away for ~20 mins.
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[03:57] <doko> mvo: ping ...
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[03:59] <doko> mvo: unping
=== Spads grabs the 20061011.1/ build
[04:02] <Kamion> Spads,tfheen: ... oh yes, they're done, forgot to say
[04:02] <Spads> haha
[04:03] <Kamion> heno: is the Orca Preferences thing meant to come up when booting the live CD with the screen reader on?
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[04:04] <mantiena> pitti, Yes, there is a difference in lshal output before and after mounting with nautilus
[04:04] <mantiena> pitti, volume.is_mounted was false before and  true after
[04:04] <pitti> mantiena: that's good
[04:04] <pitti> mantiena: then something in gnome-vfs seems to ignore it
[04:04] <mantiena> pitti, also volume.mount_mount was '' before and '/media/idedisk' after
[04:08] <mantiena> pitti, btw, on another system with libgnomevfs2 version 2.14.1-0ubuntu8 mounting with nautilus works fine - disk icon changes to mounted and I enter into volume automatically ...
[04:09] <pitti> mantiena: it might treat 'idedisk' specially, I have to look into this, but I do not have time for that now (sorry)
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[04:14] <heno> Kamion: ideally no, but there is a problem there in that we cannot force the magnifier on in the way we did with gnopernicus because Orca doesn't use gconf
[04:14] <Kamion> ah
[04:14] <Kamion> it just surprised me
[04:14] <Kamion> heno: any further idea of whether that sleep after starting orca is necessary, or should I just read the source?
[04:14] <heno> Kamion: I just discovered that and put it in the casper bug report with the patch
[04:15] <heno> Kamion: what was the sleep for again?
[04:15] <Kamion> you suggested something along the lines of sudo orca -n; sleep 2; sudo ubiquity
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[04:17] <mantiena> pitti, ok I will look into it by myself
[04:17] <heno> Kamion: not sure why. Your judgement will be better than mine there
[04:18] <heno> I probably just made that up ;p
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[04:22] <dholbach> tortoise_, heno: uploaded - thanks a lot
[04:23] <heno> cool!
=== heno hugs dholbach
=== dholbach hugs heno back :-)
[04:24] <seb128> dholbach: what did you upload?
[04:25] <gnomefreak> iwj: is edgys firefox supposed to overwrite existing symlinks from other versions?
[04:25] <heno> seb128: gnome 2.17 ;)
[04:25] <heno> seb128: a patch to Orca
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[04:26] <seb128> heno: my question is because I uploaded gnome-orca like 15min ago for the menu change
[04:26] <heno> to add a quit button
[04:26] <seb128> I wanted to know if he based it on my upload
[04:26] <jdong> gnomefreak: what symlinks?
[04:26] <heno> seb128: ok, cool. Sorry for being a wiseass :)
[04:26] <seb128> np ;)
[04:26] <dholbach> seb128: : gnarf
[04:26] <dholbach> seb128: i'll re-upload :-)
[04:26] <seb128> heno: apparently he didn't :p
[04:27] <seb128> dholbach: k ;)
[04:27] <gnomefreak> jdong: i use mozilla's firefox not normally ubuntus but every update of ubuntu's firefox overwrites all the links for my firefox
[04:27] <jdong> gnomefreak: where are you putting your symlinks?
[04:27] <seb128> gnomefreak: I'm not sure the distribution is supposed to support your random hacks
[04:28] <jdong> (that's what I was trying to get at)
[04:28] <gnomefreak> seb128: yes i understand but it shouldnt overwrite them either should it?
=== gnomefreak thought it was safe having built ff in /opt/
[04:29] <thom> well, if you're putting a symlink into /usr/bin/firefox, then yes, becaues the package owns that file
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[04:29] <seb128> gnomefreak: how can the package know youa re doing hacks out of the packaging system?
[04:29] <jdong> gnomefreak: look at dpkg's divert feature?
[04:29] <gnomefreak> i set them
[04:29] <gnomefreak> sudo dpkg-divert --divert /usr/bin/firefox.ubuntu --rename /usr/bin/firefox
[04:29] <gnomefreak> ah
[04:30] <gnomefreak> /usr/bin :(
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[04:30] <Spads> tfheen: well the bootsplash progress bar in the latest daily works better than the Sunday build did.
[04:31] <tfheen> Spads: good, good
[04:31] <Spads> hmmm, or it was...
[04:31] <Spads> tfheen: it just went to black base, rainbow background for the progress bar, correct image for the completed portion, which was something we saw on Monday
[04:31] <iwj> gnomefreak: Err, WDYM `existing symlinks' ?  Other versions of firefox ?
[04:31] <Spads> however, X appears to be starting
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[04:32] <Spads> tfheen: so apart from the cosmetics of the last stage of the bootsplash stuff, it looks good
[04:32] <gnomefreak> iwj: i have FF 3 and when you update FF2 its not leting me run FF3 it defualts back to 2
[04:32] <gnomefreak> im working on it right now
[04:33] <iwj> gnomefreak: If you want to have `firefox' mean your version, the right answer is to put your version in /usr/local/bin, which ought to be earlier on the PATH.
[04:33] <Kamion> heno: heh, ok, I'll see what I can work out
[04:33] <gnomefreak> ok ty 
=== popey pokes cbx33 
[04:34] <iwj> But I'm reading between the lines here.  You don't say which files it's overwriting, but yes, the packaging system will overwrite all of the files belonging to the firefox package even if you've messed with them.
[04:34] <tfheen> Spads: probably usplash and dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg not being entirely friendly with each other, then.
[04:34] <iwj> Apart from the config files (generally in /etc).
[04:34] <cbx33> hey popey 
[04:34] <Kamion> and unless you've diverted them
[04:35] <tfheen> iwj: have you had a look at https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/63814 ?
[04:35] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 63814 in firefox "please include patch for a highly visible crash in epiphany" [Unknown,Confirmed]  
[04:36] <doko> pitti, tkamppeter: gutenprint still installs the symlink in /usr/share/cups/model. Is this really correct? cups will see the entries twice?
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[04:36] <Spads> tfheen: yeah, well it used to happen sooner in the bootsplash period, and there was a bit of a hang involved before that isn't there now
[04:36] <seb128> tfheen: I think that's the
[04:36] <seb128> "  * Fix/workaround for epiphany GtkSocket lifetype crash:
[04:36] <seb128>     apply patch id=241087 from Mozilla Bugzilla #241535 to fix LP #63814.
[04:36] <seb128> "
[04:36] <seb128> tfheen: from the upload of yesterday
[04:37] <doko> sivang: what is #65433 about?
[04:37] <tfheen> seb128: oh, probably, yes.
[04:37] <tfheen> iwj: if you'd be so kind as to close the bug, I'd appreciate. :-)
[04:38] <seb128> Keybuk: could you comment on whether you think the patch from bug #63975 is good to upload?
[04:38] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 63975 in network-manager "Please sponsor network-manager upload" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63975
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[04:39] <Hobbsee> infinity: you around still?
[04:39] <tfheen> Hobbsee: he went to bed.
[04:40] <tfheen> (not that that means he's not around, mind)
[04:40] <Hobbsee> tfheen: right.  i'm looking for someone to nuke gomoku.app_1.2.7-7ubuntu1
[04:40] <Hobbsee> (because i screwed up)
[04:40] <Kamion> heno: yeah, the problem is that orca won't fork itself, you have to put it into the background
[04:40] <tfheen> Hobbsee: nuke as in?
[04:40] <Hobbsee> tfheen: kill, get rid of, remove, etc.  stop it building.  -6 was just uploaded, and i didnt see it.
[04:41] <Hobbsee> a) i got the version wrong and b) it was already done.
[04:41] <Hobbsee> which means that when debian syncs -7, we'll be in trouble.
[04:41] <Keybuk> seb128: I've repeatedly said many times that I'm not happy with that
[04:41] <Keybuk> not this close to release
[04:41] <heno> Kamion: when I run it as root it kills the user-run copy, which seems ok (not sure if that's what you mean)
[04:42] <seb128> Keybuk: your only comment on the bug is "Please provide a rationale for this change, citing the bugs it fixes.", if you said it many times maybe you should say it once on the bug instead?
[04:42] <Kamion> heno: the problem is that when you run something in the background, you have no idea when it's actually managed to start up
[04:42] <tfheen> Hobbsee: I suspect you'll need to have it rejected, then.
[04:42] <Kamion> heno: if orca had a switch to fork itself into the background and exit the parent process when it had finished starting up, that would be better
[04:42] <heno> right I see
[04:42] <Hobbsee> tfheen: right.  people like Kamion do that?  :P
[04:42] <tfheen> Kamion: can you reject gomoku.app_1.2.7-7ubuntu1 for Hobbsee?
[04:42] <Keybuk> seb128: basically it's a complicated patch in the middle of the wpa supplicant driver selection
[04:43] <Kamion> Hobbsee: rejected
[04:43] <Hobbsee> Kamion: thanks very much
[04:43] <Keybuk> cf. the mailing list, other bugs, etc.
[04:43] <Kamion> Hobbsee: however edgy-changes will remain confusing
[04:43] <Keybuk> I've also said I'm not happy with the request to update NM to the latest version
[04:43] <Kamion> Hobbsee: you might like to follow up to some appropriate list saying that it got rejected
=== Hobbsee notes that if she's getting signing declined due to getting her passphrase wrong repeatedly, she shouldnt be trying to upload things
[04:43] <sivang> malone #65433
[04:43] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 65433 in gcc-4.1 "[UNMETDEPS]  gcc-4.1 has unmet dependencies" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65433
[04:43] <seb128> Keybuk: I'm not arguing we should use it, I was looking at n-m bugs and that one is high importance with a patch and comment saying it would be nice to have for edgy and no objection, so I figured I would ask :)
[04:43] <Hobbsee> Kamion: i did on the bug report.
[04:44] <Kamion> ok, but there are a lot of bug reports :-)
[04:44] <Kamion> I'd reply to the edgy-changes mail and direct the reply to ubuntu-devel
[04:44] <Kamion> for clarification
[04:44] <sivang> doko: mass filing of bugs for unmetdeps, this must be a mistake, sorry
[04:45] <dholbach> sivang: did you check all the binary packages of gcc-4.1 if they are installable?
[04:45] <elmo> sivang: you know we have a britney instance right?
[04:45] <elmo> trying to replicate britney as a small shell script doesn't strike me as the best move ever
[04:46] <sivang> elmo: I used a dholbach's script...
[04:46] <sivang> dholbach: checking
[04:46] <sivang> elmo: it served us well in previous times, I might have done someting wrong operating it, hopefully not..
[04:47] <Hobbsee> Kamion: good idea.  however, i'm not going to do that tonigth, and make a fool of myself over two things :P
[04:47] <Keybuk> seb128: tbh, I've been largely ignoring n-m this cycle
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[04:48] <Kamion> elmo: we don't/can't run britney on universe - last time I tried the runtime exceeded six hours before I gave up
[04:48] <elmo> Kamion: ah, this was a package in main, so I assumed that's what this was about
[04:48] <Kamion> sivang: oh, yeah, definitely don't run dholbach's script over main, there's no point
[04:49] <elmo> Kamion: it might be worth trying again sometime on jackass - it's pretty much idle these days, and even if it took 12 hours, it might be better than apt-cache output hackery
[04:49] <elmo> but *shrug*
[04:49] <dholbach> the list of packages he fed into it was largely just looking at        apt-cache -i unmet
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[04:50] <Kamion> elmo: mm, worth a try I guess
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[04:50] <Kamion> I'll have a look once we're in RC freeze and uploads have settled
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[05:03] <sivang> Kamion: I overlooked the fact that it didn't exclude main, but all in all I think it's only gcc that has been filed as unmetdep
[05:03] <sivang> Kamion: (I went through 99% of the packages before it filed the bugs, I would have noticed if they all seemed mainish)
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[05:10] <iwj> tfheen: Aye, sorry.  I have set the bug to Fix Released.  Although, I haven't tested it.
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[05:11] <Kamion> heno: ok, orca startup business done in my bzr branch, I think; should happen automatically if access=v3 is in /proc/cmdline
[05:12] <bddebian> Howdy
[05:12] <heno> Kamion: cool! thanks
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[05:29] <dholbach> heno: after the mid-air collision with seb128, finally uploaded.
[05:30] <heno> dholbach: great! I know it's a popular application these days ;)
[05:30] <heno> easy to collide
[05:30] <dholbach> hehe :-)
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[05:41] <azeem> so ubiquity tries to wget something but I'm behind a proxy, so it hangs at "configuring apt", can I just kill the wget or is there a recommended way?
[05:41] <Kamion> fix your proxy to reject the request rather than just dropping it on the floor
[05:42] <azeem> hmpf :)
[05:42] <Kamion> but yes, killing the wget, apt methods, etc. is about the best you can do
[05:42] <azeem> thanks
[05:42] <Kamion> may take a few goes until it sorts its life out
[05:42] <Kamion> it will time out eventually by itself
[05:43] <azeem> does it take gnome's proxy settings?
[05:43] <Kamion> but apt's timeouts are still rather too long and it doesn't realise that it timed out on a given host before
[05:43] <Kamion> doesn't GNOME basically just set http_proxy for all its subprocesses?
[05:43] <Kamion> IIRC yes, and last time I tested that IIRC it worked
[05:43] <azeem> oh, I didn't know.  I'll try with gnome-network-properties
[05:44] <azeem> ah, it timed out
[05:45] <Kamion> yes, I set a proxy in GNOME, started a terminal, and http_proxy was set appropriately in the environment
[05:46] <Kamion> so that should work fine
[05:46] <azeem> now that you mention it, I wondered why http_proxy was being set on my notebook all the time the other day.   I never noticed this before, must be something newish, maybe
[05:46] <azeem> but a nice feature
[05:47] <Kamion> I last tried it quite a while ago; could be newish when measured in years, I guess :)
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[06:02] <doko> <doko> pitti, tkamppeter: gutenprint still installs the symlink in /usr/share/cups/model. Is this really correct? cups will see the entries twice?
[06:04] <pitti> doko: doesn't matter any more, the /usr/share/ppd/transitional symlink doesn't exist any more
[06:06] <doko> pitti: but I do see the printer twice ...
[06:06] <doko> $ ls -ld /usr/share/ppd/gutenprint
[06:06] <doko> drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 16 2006-08-31 22:27 /usr/share/ppd/gutenprint
[06:07] <pitti> that looks right
[06:07] <doko> $ ls -ld /usr/share/cups/model/g*
[06:07] <doko> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 20 2006-08-31 22:18 /usr/share/cups/model/gutenprint -> ../../ppd/gutenprint
[06:07] <pitti> /usr/share/cups/model is ignored by cups now
[06:09] <pitti> doko: maybe you see the printer with two different possible drivers?
[06:09] <doko> pitti: didn't we want to remove the duplicate entries?
[06:10] <pitti> well, sure
[06:10] <pitti> but I don't know what's causing them now
[06:10] <doko> http://people.ubuntu.com/~doko/addprinter.png
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[06:13] <HiddenWolf> Is there a ubuntu.com webmaster around?
[06:19] <pitti> HiddenWolf: see /msg
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[06:25] <BenC> jdong: ping
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[06:52] <jdong> BenC: pong
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[06:53] <BenC> jdong: There's no unusual dev flag for "max sectors". There's one for "GO_SLOW", maybe that will work for you
[06:53] <jdong> BenC: that sounds about right :)
[06:53] <jdong> hopefully it does the same thing :)
[06:54] <BenC> it inserts delays after command phase
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[07:03] <JohnFlux_> Hey all
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[07:04] <JohnFlux_> To get cups + samba working so windows computers can print through samba, I wrote a script to download the needed cups drivers, extract them and install them
[07:04] <JohnFlux_> as well as get the needed cups windows drivers and install them too
[07:04] <JohnFlux_> I want to know where I can go from here
[07:05] <JohnFlux_> I can make a .deb package with a bit of guidance
[07:05] <JohnFlux_> if someone can say they'll check and add it to a repos
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[07:06] <HiddenWolf> JohnFlux_: I'd suggest checking out #ubuntu-motu
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[07:16] <heno> HiddenWolf: what do you need WRT ubuntu.com?
[07:17] <heno> (I'm the old webmaster)
[07:18] <HiddenWolf> heno: It's fixed now. 
[07:18] <heno> ok, cool
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[07:27] <lfittl> infinity: could you take a look at https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/phpdoc/+bug/53710, dholbach meant I should talk to you about syncing it
[07:27] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 53710 in phpdoc "Please re-sync with debian, there's a newer version" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
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[08:01] <mdz> tfheen: ping
[08:01] <tfheen> mdz: You sent me a contentless ping.  This is a contentless pong.  Please provide a bit of information about what you want and I'll respond when I am around.
[08:01] <mdz> tfheen: ha
[08:01] <pitti> is that the new tfheenbot?
[08:02] <mdz> apparently
[08:02] <pitti> tfheen: pong
[08:02] <pitti> did I confuse it? did I?
[08:02] <pitti> 'ping stack underflow'?
[08:02] <fabbione> ahah
[08:02] <mdz> tfheen: I want to know where we stand on the RC checklist and what problems, if any, were found during the review
[08:03] <gnomefreak> where do the xubuntu devs hang out?
[08:04] <crimsun> gnomefreak: on the xubuntu-devel mailing list.
[08:04] <gnomefreak> :( another mailing list
[08:04] <BenC> mdz: Did you get any where further with your suspend bug?
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[08:04] <crimsun> gnomefreak: if you need a dev immediately, Gloubiboulga is present.
[08:05] <gnomefreak> i tried pinging him in #xubuntu
[08:05] <gnomefreak> is gnome-desktop-environment safe to remove?
[08:05] <gnomefreak> oh and keep a working gnome
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[08:20] <agutierr> hello all. I have a question about preseeds. How I can set up universe, multiverse and restricted repositories in preseed ? I think apt-setup/section universe multiverse restricted but I dont know if its correct... Thanks!
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[08:35] <mdz> BenC: only what I told mjg59 last night
[08:36] <mdz> BenC: it doesn't seem related to radeon
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[08:49] <BenC> mdz: Can you tell if there are more oopses before the one in the screen photo?
[08:50] <mdz> BenC: I don't think I was able to scroll
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[08:51] <fdsd> hey guys, I am customizing the ubuntu livecd for my school, we are going to use it for data recovery, I have a shell script that starts on tty1, but its really annoying because dmesg messages keep interupting the script, how do I turn that off?
[08:51] <mdz> yeah, just reproduced it and I can't scroll
[08:52] <mdz> BenC: this time after the panic, I get an endless sequence of "atkbd.c: Spurious ACK on isa0060/serio0. ..."
[08:52] <BenC> mdz: So there's possibly another oops before the one you captured?
[08:52] <mdz> 2 messages every 500ms
[08:52] <mdz> BenC: it's possible, but I don't know any way to check
[08:52] <mdz> BenC: is there a panic=something which will make it stop at the first one?
[08:53] <mdz> I guess panic=bignumber would do
[08:54] <BenC> mdz: you could also set a higher console res (vga=791 or something) to see if there's more lines captured
[08:58] <jdong_> whoa, cool, update-manager blocks shutdown
[08:59] <jdong_> of course not admitting that I was being a complete moron trying to shut down with an upgrade process running ;-)
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[09:00] <pef> hello
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[09:26] <mdz> Kamion: why are we using this horrible console font btw?
[09:27] <mdz> BenC: tried a higher res mode; the console gets corrupted when it panics
[09:27] <BenC> shitty
[09:28] <jdong_> and why doesn't that horrible font on my dist-upgraded boxes
[09:28] <jdong_> (NOT THAT I WANT IT OR ANYTHING) :)
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[09:36] <pygi> sivang, ping?
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[09:42] <lmanul> hey guys, I'm trying to enhance the services-admin dialog a bit, and I'm looking for a way to figure out whether a given daemon is running or not. I saw there was a pretty clever infrastructure with all the /etc/init.d scripts, and start-stop-daemon, etc., but is there a simple way to do that?
[09:42] <Kamion> mdz: oh, I meant to switch it back to Fixed
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[09:42] <Kamion> or VGA or something
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[09:42] <Kamion> mdz: it's supposed to reduce eyestrain, but I'm not entirely convinced
[09:42] <mdz> Kamion: please change it back pre-freeze
[09:42] <Kamion> will do
[09:43] <mdz> I think it's hideous
[09:43] <Kamion> that makes two more things to do pre-freeze, since I just cleared out one of them
[09:43] <mdz> BenC: any other ideas?
[09:43] <Kamion> no, three - have to refresh d-i and ubiquity tomorrow morning
[09:44] <BenC> mdz: what's the bug number again?
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[09:48] <Kamion> mdz: I'm not going to attempt to fix it for upgraded systems, I'm afraid - IMO trying to do that will be fragile at best, given that different fonts are needed for different scripts
[09:48] <Kamion> people running edgy can edit /etc/default/console-setup and change Terminus to VGA
[09:48] <mdz> Kamion: that needs to be in the release notes for folks who installed beta
[09:50] <Kamion> mkay
[09:51] <Kamion> I'd like to fix bug 63915, but I'm not quite sure of the correct fix
[09:51] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 63915 in console-setup "[Edgy Beta]  "Japan" keyboard layout is actually "U.S. English"" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63915
[09:51] <Kamion> I'll hold off on an upload until I've had a bit more of a chance to investigate tonight
[09:51] <Kamion> but first, food
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[10:04] <BenC> mdz: Without having the machine and doing some debug, I can't say for sure what the problem is
[10:05] <BenC> mdz: It seems the timer list is corrupt, which would suggest some part of the system is referencing it after it is removed
[10:05] <BenC> (after a timer is removed)
[10:05] <BenC> mdz: Can you get me the stack trace from where the snd modules are removed, it may be easier to grok
[10:06] <BenC> mdz: My fear is that the stack trace you captured is several oopses into the problem, and that what I'm looking at is just a symptom and not the real problem
[10:07] <mdz> BenC: panic=300 didn't seem to help; I got the same info on the screen
[10:07] <BenC> well, the oopses aren't "panic"s so it wouldn't stop the first one from happening
[10:07] <BenC> you could install the kdump kernel, and we can set it up to drop to a shell in initramfs on the first oops
[10:07] <mdz> I can dot hat
[10:07] <mdz> do that
[10:08] <mdz> if it's only an oops, shouldn't it be logged?
[10:09] <BenC> it would if it didn't cause a panic shortly after
[10:09] <BenC> I'm thinking that most likely a module is being unloaded that isn't cleaning up correctly
[10:10] <BenC> if one module corrupts the timer list, than you would see things like this where a later timer would show the problem
[10:10] <mdz> oh, I see
[10:10] <BenC> cascade() basically bubbles up the timer list
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[10:12] <mdz> BenC: do you think it's related to the sound driver, or is that a red herring?
[10:12] <BenC> mdz: Can you get me a diff of lsmod in single user and full boot?
[10:12] <mdz> yep
[10:12] <BenC> mdz: I think it's a red herring
[10:13] <BenC> single user suspends/resumes without problem, right?
[10:14] <mdz> BenC: that was my impression, though it seems to be less reproducible than I originally thought
[10:14] <mdz> usually 3-4 tries is enough to get it to happen in multiuser
[10:14] <mdz> but I did that many in single-user without a problem
[10:14] <mdz> going to try a few more times ot be sure
[10:16] <mdz> I wonder if acpi-support is unloading any modules
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[10:17] <mdz> BenC: one interesting difference is that acpid isn't running in single-user
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[10:18] <mdz> BenC: ok, I'm about as confident as I can get that this isn't reproducible in single-user
[10:18] <mdz> it also suspends quite a bit faster in single-user
[10:18] <mdz> I'll get that lsmod diff
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[10:21] <tfheen> mdz: we're at 39 RC bugs, 9 of those are fix committed, 3 are artwork where fschoep has promised me those by 10:00 UTC tomorrow, 4 or 5 which are desktop team bugs which seb128 said would be fixed by tomorrow.  We seem to have a couple of python/apt/dist-upgrader problems which I'm not sure what the state of are and a couple of stragglers like 65063, 64909 and 64122
[10:22] <seb128> tfheen: I've 3 on my list
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[10:22] <mdz> tfheen: thanks...how about package inconsistencies, CD sizes, livefs builds, etc.?
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[10:22] <pygi> hello neuralis 
[10:23] <tfheen> mdz: package inconsistencies seems good; there's ndiswrapper-utils on ppc and a couple of gcc-3.3 bugs on sparc (gcc-3.3 is supported mainly for libstdc++5)
[10:23] <seb128> tfheen: there is only one of those 3 desktop that needs to be fixed and it's not really complicated, I'm waiting for upstream to get a fix, if they don't I'll revert the few liner commit that created the issue
[10:25] <mdz> BenC: http://librarian.launchpad.net/4792360/lsmod-diff.txt
[10:25] <tfheen> mdz: livefs-es are happy now with fresh winfoss (which caused a bit of a problem due to a 403 when downloading those).  No oversized as of now, the dapper upgrade of drescher and per-arch overrides helped a bunch, so did the removal of the initrd from the livefs, it seems.
[10:25] <tfheen> seb128: goodie.
[10:25] <mdz> tfheen: why is ndiswrapper-utils even built on ppc?  seems unnecessary
[10:25] <tfheen> mdz: yeah, that occured to me too.  I can't see why it'd be useful
[10:26] <mdz> tfheen: maybe somebody has a plan to use qemu to run NDIS drivers :-P
[10:26] <mdz> tfheen: drescher was upgraded to dapper? eek
[10:26] <tfheen> if so, they'll probably use the i386 ndis packages, I'd imagine.
[10:26] <tfheen> yes, last weekend.
[10:26] <mdz> I thought we were just upgrading apt-ftparchive
[10:26] <tfheen> I think it was a full upgrade, at least.
[10:26] <mdz> it's supposed to have edgy apt-ftparchive on it now; has that helped cron.daily runtime?
[10:27] <tfheen> I think so, but I don't have any exact numbers.
[10:27] <tfheen> (I don't have access to drescher, so I can't even grep the logs)
[10:27] <seb128> BenC: any other linux upload planned for edgy? gicmo (who is one of the cool GNOME guys) would appreciate having the trivial change from bug #64433 with edgy if possible :) It's after freeze so probably for next cycle I point it in case though
[10:27] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 64433 in linux-source-2.6.17 "Use correct SATA driver for (some) MacPros" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/64433
[10:28] <mdz> oh
[10:28] <mdz> most recent one seems to have taken 24 minutes
[10:28] <mdz> which would be a substantial improvement
[10:28] <tfheen> mdz: there are a couple of kernel bugs as well; BenC has said he's on top of those, but we need to discuss what the different freezes mean in SF.  I thought kernelfreeze was "kernel is utterly frozen", not "kernel ABI is frozen".  BenC seems to have understood the latter and I'm not sure what's the intention
[10:31] <mdz> tfheen: kernel freeze is meant to be "kernel updates require review and approval"
[10:32] <tfheen> mdz: oh, and it would have been nice if we had a proper artworkfreeze too.  I lumped it together with the general RC freeze tomorrow.
[10:32] <tfheen> mdz: kernel freeze> I suspect I should tell BenC that then. :-)
[10:32] <mdz> tfheen: we had one; it's just that sabdfl disregarded it (again)
[10:33] <tfheen> mdz: is there anything we can do to make that not happen again?
[10:33] <mdz> tfheen: by definition, no
[10:33] <tfheen> tie him up in a room with no connectivity for the last month of the release cycle?
[10:33] <tfheen> might work once, but probably not the second time around..
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[10:34] <mdz> tfheen: my understanding is that we're to revert to the dapper artwork unless something magical happens
[10:34] <mdz> tfheen: in which case it seems wise to go ahead and do that
[10:35] <tfheen> mdz: ok.  dholbach is handling that with fschoep.
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[10:36] <dholbach> tfheen: Ok, I was waiting on fschoep's "something magical has happened" some minutes before the freeze
[10:36] <shining> mdz: do you know if something happened for firefox? there has been some branding changes in last package
[10:36] <dholbach> I didn't fancy reverting it, just to change something in the magical case
[10:36] <mdz> shining: discussions are ongoing
[10:36] <mdz> those changes are unrelated; they're just preserving the status quo
[10:37] <shining> mdz: ah ok
[10:37] <shining> is it ok to ask here about this stuff? or is there a better place to track if the discussions lead to something
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[10:38] <BenC> tfheen, mdz: the ABI change thing was mainly that I wont accept any change that affects ABI, and changes that don't have to be pretty important and trivial
[10:38] <mdz> BenC: I'm concerned about the notion of merging new upstream code at this point, as I mailed about just now
[10:38] <BenC> trivial patches that is
[10:40] <BenC> mdz: The new upstream merge was 99% security fixes
[10:40] <BenC> I reviewed the changes between .11 and .13..the diff was really trivial, non-ABI changing, and addressed most of the CVE's that pitti sent me
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[10:41] <BenC> the only thing major was sky2, and it's disabled anyway
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[10:43] <mdz> BenC: the changelog needs to say that; new upstreams without clearly reviewed changes make the release team cry
[10:44] <BenC> mdz: The modules that are new in the diff, can you try unloading some of them after a full boot, like in groups of 5, to see if the oops goes away?
[10:44] <BenC> mdz: Starting with the ones that are >0 ref count
[10:44] <mdz> BenC: ok
[10:44] <tfheen> BenC: I'd actually liked if you sent it to the release team even so; I just saw an upload and hadn't gotten any explanation for it.
[10:44] <BenC> mdz: True, I guess just doing "update from .11 to .13" is a little scary :)
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[10:45] <BenC> tfheen: Ok, I wasn't aware of the process for new uploads...I don't forsee any further kernel updates, unless I can fix mdz's bug :)
[10:45] <BenC> tfheen: If there are any other uploads, I consult first about the reasons why
[10:45] <tfheen> BenC: thanks.
[10:45] <mdz> starting tomorrow they'll require manual approval anyway
[10:45] <tfheen> BenC: you had an upload pending this morning, iirc, was that uploaded?
[10:45] <BenC> right, that's why I didn't think today's needed any approval
[10:46] <tfheen> the kernel's special. :-)
[10:46] <BenC> tfheen: the 2.6.17-10.31 was the one
[10:46] <BenC> it's in the process of building now
[10:46] <tfheen> ok.
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[10:47] <tfheen> if you'd be so kind as to mark bugs that are fixed by that upload as at least fix committed, but preferably fix released I'd be very glad.
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[10:49] <mdz> BenC: I can unload speedstep_centrino; something has a reference to it and I don't know what
[10:49] <BenC> mdz: Probably userspace power management
[10:49] <BenC> maybe an init script will disable it
[10:49] <mdz> BenC: no, I stopped powernowd and scaling_governor=performance now
[10:49] <BenC> powernowd
[10:50] <BenC> hmm
[10:50] <BenC> ok, skip that one for now then
[10:50] <BenC> we can try blacklisting it later or something
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[10:52] <kristog> night
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[11:06] <mdz> BenC: it blows up even when I comment out the meat of /etc/acpi/sleep.sh (i.e. it doesn't even start to try to suspend)
[11:06] <mdz> so I'll try to isolate which step in the script jungle is causing it
[11:06] <BenC> ok
[11:08] <mdz> BenC: it unloads *_ircc, *_ircc2, e1000, ipw2200, switches the console, does vbetool stuff, then crashes while shutting down alsa
[11:08] <BenC> can you add -x to the alsa init script?
[11:10] <mdz> BenC: did that, rebooting to get the output
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[11:12] <mdz> BenC: alsactl followed by sleep 1 is as far as it got
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[11:12] <mdz> then there is a bunch of garbage in the log
[11:12] <mdz> BenC: should I try disabling any of the above steps I listed?
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[11:13] <BenC> can you try running /etc/init.d/alsa-utils stop before suspend and see where sleep.sh gets then?
[11:14] <mdz> I wonder why it has a sleep in there
[11:15] <mdz> BenC: alsa-utils stop will try to do the same things even if it's already been run
[11:15] <mdz> I can disable it
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[11:15] <BenC> ok
[11:15] <mdz> but since unloading the sound drivers didn't help, I don't think that will either
[11:18] <mdz> BenC: if I disable the unloading of e1000 and ipw2200, it doesn't seem to panic
[11:18] <BenC> mdz: Hoping that the getting alsa out of the way will make the oops more relavant
[11:18] <BenC> hmm
[11:19] <BenC> mdz: Can you narrow it down to one or the other?
[11:19] <mdz> yep
[11:19] <BenC> I bet it's ipw2200
[11:19] <BenC> and I bet I have it fixed already
[11:20] <BenC> like just now :)
[11:20] <lifeless> BenC: is it safe to try running the edgy kernel on a dapper box ?
[11:20] <BenC> lifeless: Should be, there's no deps, and it should operate fine
[11:21] <lifeless> BenC: sweet. - The drop-cache patch sounds very interesting for bzr performance testing.
[11:21] <mdz> BenC: I've whitelisted e1000 (so only ipw2200 gets unloaded) and it isn't crashing on me
[11:21] <mdz> imlpying that it's e1000
[11:21] <BenC>     [PATCH]  - quiesce ipw2200 on shutdown
[11:21] <BenC> 
[11:21] <BenC>     This seems to be needed for some Toshibas. We carried it in 2.6.12.
[11:22] <BenC> that patch got lost recently
[11:22] <BenC> I cherry-picked it
[11:22] <mdz> swapped them, and boom
[11:22] <mdz> so it's e1000
[11:22] <BenC> hmm
[11:22] <mdz> can you get me an e1000 with that patch?
[11:24] <keescook> seb128: ping (re: bug 14392)
[11:24] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 14392 in gnome-system-tools "[network-admin]  WEP key stored in world-readable /etc/network/interfaces" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/14392
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[11:25] <BenC> mdz: That isn't an e1000 problem
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[11:25] <fdsd> hey guys, I am customizing the ubuntu livecd for my school, we are going to use it for data recovery, I have a shell script that starts on tty1, but its really annoying because dmesg messages keep interupting the script, how do I turn that off?
[11:25] <mdz> BenC: oh, right
[11:25] <seb128> keescook: pong
[11:26] <BenC> mdz: When you tested e1000, did you test it on a fresh boot with out ipw2200 being loaded?
[11:26] <keescook> seb128: I just put a note onto that bug... I think if you move the key's index up one position, you'll stop any possible race.
[11:26] <BenC> mdz: Are e1000 and ipw2000 sharing an IRQ?
[11:26] <seb128> keescook: "race"? is that multi-threaded?
[11:26] <keescook> from the looks of it, it'll update the key first, then chmod the file.
[11:27] <keescook> (i.e. there's a race between those two moments to read the key)
[11:27] <seb128> keescook: right, do you expect somebody will read the will during the split instant between them? ;)
[11:27] <seb128> s/will/file
[11:27] <lifeless> seb128: such attacks have happened before
[11:27] <keescook> seb128: well, it's very unlikely, but fixing this race is easy.  :)
[11:27] <seb128> right, will fix it, thank you for pointing it
[11:28] <mdz> BenC: yes
[11:28] <keescook> seb128: no problem.  :)  thanks!
[11:28] <mdz>  11:      11448          XT-PIC  uhci_hcd:usb1, uhci_hcd:usb2, uhci_hcd:usb3, ehci_hcd:usb4, yenta, ipw2200, eth0
[11:28] <mdz> BenC: eth0 is e1000 (why isn't /proc/interrupts consistent about module name vs. interface name?)
[11:28] <mdz> why are all of my IRQs XT-PIC anyway?
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[11:29] <BenC> mdz: all depends on how the irq is requested...like for any sata and pata drivers, they all say libata is the irq owner
[11:29] <mdz> oh
[11:29] <mdz> [17179569.184000]  Local APIC disabled by BIOS (or by default) -- you can enable 
[11:29] <mdz> it with "lapic"
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[11:31] <fdsd> anyone have any idea?
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[11:31] <BenC> wow, diff between .17 and .19 e1000 is 300k
[11:32] <fdsd> BenC, yeah ltrack has been making alot of updates to it
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[11:34] <mdz> fdsd: you could fix that by disabling the messages, or by running the script on a different tty
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[11:34] <fdsd> mdz, yeah I am looking to disable it, that has been my alternive to run it on tty2, but I need it on tty1
[11:35] <fdsd> do I edit a config file?
[11:35] <BenC> mdz: What kernel are you running, x86 -generic?
[11:35] <mdz> BenC: 2.6.17-10-generic, yes
[11:35] <mdz> _i386
[11:35] <mdz> fdsd: who or what is ltrack?
[11:35] <BenC> mdz: I want to get you a fixed ipw2200, just to see if it helps (I don't suspect it will, but how knows)
[11:36] <fdsd> mdz, kernel developer
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[11:36] <fdsd> mdz, she is pretty cool
[11:36] <fdsd> mdz, she works on alot of ppc stuff and intel nic stuff
[11:38] <mdz> fdsd: I don't know who you are talking about
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[11:39] <lifeless> fdsd: what is her _name_ ?
[11:39] <fdsd> lifeless, tina jones
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[11:43] <mdz> fdsd: I think you're thinking of someone else
[11:43] <fdsd> do you guys know if its syslogd or klogd that gives the messages to tty1?
[11:43] <fdsd> mdz, hmm i am pretty sure
[11:47] <seb128> BenC: did you read my comment about #64433?
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[11:57] <BenC> fdsd: There's no "Tina" in the e1000 git-log
[11:58] <BenC> Jeff Kirsher seems to be doing most of the work there
[12:01] <BenC> mdz: people.u.c:~bcollins/ipw2200.ko
[12:01] <BenC> mdz: Move that into /lib/modules/2.6.17-10-generic/kernel/drivers/net/wireless/
[12:02] <BenC> mdz: Reboot, and let me know if it helps any
[12:04] <brandon> mdz, ping , got a moment to chat with me and the core konversation guys for a sec ?
[12:05] <mdz> brandon: I'm dealing with a serious kernel regression right now
[12:05] <brandon> mdz, sure no problem
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