/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2006/10/12/#ubuntu-artwork.txt

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BHSPitLappyhi,12:32
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fschoeptroy_s: figured you might be online01:28
troy_syes01:28
troy_sunfortunately01:28
troy_sfschoep, how are things?01:28
fschoepWell01:29
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Who_hello people01:30
troy_sWhosie...01:30
fschoepWho_: great to see you01:31
Who_yea, sorry I don't have long!01:31
fschoepWho_: np01:31
Who_is jmak around?01:31
Who_the GDM looks freat, fschoep01:32
fschoep;)01:32
troy_swho join #temp01:32
fschoepgreat now everyone will :D01:33
troy_sunlikely01:33
troy_swe are a boring lot01:33
fschoepAt this time of day ;)01:33
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Viper550http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=4664501:40
fschoepViper550: nice to see it's available for everyone now01:44
fschoepViper550: I'm sure it'll fit right in for Edgy01:45
Viper550you actually love it? thank you! took me a few hours to port it down01:45
fschoepViper550: I see, good work though01:46
troy_sits beautiful01:47
troy_sabsolutely beautiful!01:47
Viper550I just think Edgy should ship just with something half different that at least "shows evolution". An updithered version of Dapper's splash with a better progress bar is my definition of "evolution"01:48
Viper550*different=decent01:48
troy_sabsolutely01:49
troy_si think it is incredible01:49
Viper550think it would look good as default?01:49
Viper550anyone still there?01:54
fschoepViper550: I'm here01:57
Viper550(I was just updating the polish incoming01:57
Viper550https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Specs/EdgyArtworkPlan/Polish/Incoming (Added new splash, +replaced usplash_01:58
Viper550like my new splash fschoep?02:01
fschoepViper550: it isn't exactly "new" but it's Dapper redone which is nice02:01
fschoepViper550: I'm sure a lot of people will want to try it02:01
fschoepViper550: it's on the forums as well, right?02:02
Viper550yeah, posted it everywhere almost!02:02
Viper550even here: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/usplash-theme-ubuntu/+bug/6481902:05
UbugtuMalone bug 64819 in usplash-theme-ubuntu "[Edgy]  Usplash should use black background" [Wishlist,Confirmed] 02:05
Viper550(oooh, that's neat!)02:05
troy_sthank goodness for ubugtu02:06
Viper550it does 2 types of bugs, ubuntu bugs and bugging other people right?02:07
fschoep@calc 2 * 55002:07
Ubugtu110002:07
Viper550oh yeah, beryl can do metacity themes now!02:09
Viper550i mean compiz02:09
fschoepit's going to be fun times for people doing artwork and themes02:11
Viper550my latest "pimpage" of the new usplash: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=1606912#post160691202:12
Viper550but troy_S, fschoep, how did you like my login splash?02:17
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unfknblvbllooking for a nice terminal/console icon08:45
unfknblvblany linkage ?08:45
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fschoeptroy_s: ping?10:28
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nysosymhi all :)))11:23
nysosymhi fschoep :))11:25
fschoephi11:26
fschoepphone brb11:26
fschoep:)11:26
fschoepb11:26
fschoepHow are you doing nysosym11:26
nysosymbadly, because i have some cold :-/11:29
fschoepoh dear, I hope you get well soon11:29
nysosymthx :)11:29
nysosymhow are u?11:29
fschoepA bit.. sleepy11:29
fschoep:)11:29
fschoepOtherwise fine11:29
fschoepthanks11:29
nysosymaahhh, yes i'm a little bit sleepy too :D11:31
nysosymwhat do you do at moment?11:31
fschoepSitting, waiting around11:32
nysosymwaiting?11:32
fschoepYeah, like waiting :)11:32
nysosym^^ what do you waiting for?11:33
nysosymohh, kernel update, restart.... brbr11:34
fschoep:)11:34
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nysosymre ^^11:56
nysosymfschoep: al artworks looks like dapper now? O.o11:57
lapohi11:57
fschoepnysosym: right11:58
fschoepnysosym: luckily11:58
nysosymwhy?11:58
fschoepnysosym: it's the only thing that Mark approved11:58
nysosymhmmm :-/11:58
nysosymis the temporary or final?11:59
fschoepnysosym: final, as far as I know right now12:00
nysosymhmm i don't like this, but okay, how will people know. That thes use, Dapper or Edgy, there is nothing to recognize12:01
fschoepThere are some different icons12:01
fschoep;)12:01
nysosym^^12:01
nysosymyes okay, but nothing what u can see at first blush12:02
fschoepRounded window corners12:02
fschoephigh-res usplash12:02
fschoepbut that's pretty much it, indeed12:02
nysosymhmm okay, can i have a look at your work please? :)12:05
fschoepLast thing we tried was creating a new GDM12:05
fschoeptheme12:05
nysosymsure, can i see them?12:05
nysosymi know i'm pretty curious :D12:06
fschoepI'm trying DCC send12:06
fschoepDoesn't seem to work12:06
fschoepYour e-mail is (PM)?12:06
nysosymcan u see my pm?12:07
fschoepNo12:07
fschoepI know12:07
fschoepEric12:07
nysosymyes :)12:07
fschoephang on12:07
nysosymthx12:07
fschoepI was a bit sleepy so I didn't remember you are Eric :)12:08
nysosymno problem :)12:08
nysosymmaybe i should change my nick ^^12:09
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nysosymi like it a lot, much better as the dapper one, why does mark criticize them?12:14
fschoepI won't go into that here to prevent escalation ;)12:15
fschoepit's just not going in there yet :)12:15
nysosymohh noo12:16
nysosymnothing escalate :D12:16
nysosymi respect the mind of mark, but i'm interested on the critic :D12:17
fschoepI see12:17
fschoepWell, the most important things are the colors and the feeling of "glow" around the logo12:18
fschoepthose weren't really what Mark was looking for12:18
nysosymok, well, thx :)12:19
nysosymi hope, edgy+1 will be a little bit "fresher" :D12:21
nysosymfschoep: do u have an account on any instant messenger protokoll? :D12:23
nysosym* protocol12:23
fschoepnysosym: no IRC is already too much too handle for me :)12:23
nysosymfschoep: okay, no problem :D12:24
nysosymdamn, these stupid fly's make some shit on my monitor ^^12:25
nysosymsry for my language.. :-/12:28
nysosymbut this is a real problem ^^12:28
lapoI respect mark a lot, but I feel having him "dictate" on graphic stuff is like me dictate on software architecture12:29
lapobtw it is fully in his rights, so no problems12:29
nysosymyes ;)12:30
fschoep:)12:31
lapoI really hope for him to pass the graphic decisions to fschoep eventually, only issuing general directions12:32
fschoeplapo: that kind of happened12:32
fschoeplapo: but didn't work out eventually12:32
lapofschoep: so it pratically haven't happend yet :-)12:32
fschoeplapo: well, yes - we did a lot of work in the general direction but none of it worked for Mark12:33
fschoeplapo: that's why noone should complain or be dissatisfied - we worked very hard with the team12:33
fschoeplapo: that's way different than what happened during Dapper. For Edgy, we built momentum and worked in a focused way which is really great.12:33
fschoepFor Edgy +1 we should concentrate on making sure that whatever we do fits the needs of Mark12:34
fschoep...from the start.12:34
lapofschoep: watch out, the momentum will eventually end if he end results are not very good :-/12:35
fschoeplapo: right, but Edgy was a testbed to build on the community and I think we succeeded in that12:36
lapothat's cool12:36
lapobut I'm kind of not really ok with the general direction mark wanted, the ubuntu looks is getting very ungnomish12:37
lapoand that's kinda sucks for me because I thought ubuntu is all about gnome12:37
fschoepI see12:37
lapobtw chaning the looks of stuff is easier with all the specs around now, so I don't really care :-)12:37
nysosymyes, i think although, edgy+1 will be the rival of vista and we should concentrate more for the design of edgy+1. :D12:37
fschoepGoing to get some food now, brb12:38
nysosymyes, i'm too12:38
nysosymbrb12:38
andreasnyeah, it would be really cool if the ubuntu-art team worked closer together with gnome12:42
andreasnI did feel we made some progress at the summit, where the artists from both redhat and novell met12:44
andreasntogether with more "neutral dudes" like me :)12:45
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ROBOdhello guys01:08
ROBOdis there something being done to provide a theme in kde which makes kde applications look the same in ubuntu?01:08
ROBOdsame colour theme, same icons, same widgets01:09
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nysosymre01:14
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frandavid100hiya02:49
frandavid100I just noticed edgy's artwoek was reverted to dapper02:50
frandavid100why was that?02:50
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AnAntwhy did you change Edgy's GDM theme today ? It used to be nice !03:07
ROBOdwe all ask, no answers :(03:09
frandavid100seems so03:09
frandavid100andreas, are you there?03:10
AnAntROBOd: so I'm not the only one who is sad about that theme03:10
ROBOdAnAnt: i didn't say i asked about that :P03:11
frandavid100not at all03:11
ROBOdi asked something else03:11
AnAntoh03:11
AnAntdid you guys update gdm-theme today ?03:11
ROBOdi don't use edgy yet03:12
troy_shi guys03:13
AnAntoh03:14
troy_show are you all?03:15
ROBOdwe are all feeling marvelous03:16
ROBOdthanks for asking troy_s :)03:16
troy_sfrank was in here, did edgy revert today?03:17
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unfknblvblanyone wwanna see some cool icons ?03:22
ROBOdi dislike the tangerine icons in kde 3.5.503:23
ROBOd(in kubuntu)03:23
ROBOdin pervious versions of kde selecting tangerine icons was futile, since folder icons were not changing to the orange theme, they were forever blue03:24
ROBOdnow in kde 3.5.5 this was "fixed". the orange icons look horrible, lol03:24
AnAnttroy_s: revert ?03:29
troy_sanant:  edgy artwork should have reverted to dapper today03:31
AnAnttroy_s: yes, it did, it's horrible . Why they did that ?03:32
AnAnttroy_s: the GDM theme used to be great03:32
troy_sforward your mail to mark :)03:32
troy_sthat's about all you can do.03:32
troy_sbasically, when frank uploaded the work03:32
troy_sit was halted03:32
troy_sso no polishing took place at all03:32
troy_swhich is unfortunate03:32
AnAnthuh ?03:33
troy_sthere were plans to unify the metacity borders to the palette etc03:33
AnAnthalted = ?03:33
troy_sfrank uploaded the 'new' work03:33
troy_sincluding the newer gdm etc03:33
troy_sit was frozen from polishing because of his dilike03:34
troy_sdislike even03:34
AnAntwhere can I get the old  (before reverting that is) artwork03:34
AnAnt?03:34
troy_sanyways, speak with fschoep03:34
AnAnthe disliked what he did ?03:34
troy_sno03:35
troy_sfor edgy there was a plan to attempt and address some of the artwork inconsistencies03:35
AnAntoh03:35
troy_sfor example, the distinct palette issues from gdm to logon splash to wallpaper03:35
troy_setc03:35
troy_swhat you saw were the first steps towards correcting those anomolies etc.03:36
troy_sneedless to say, when frank uploaded his decisions (as artist in chief) he was trumped03:36
troy_sso the work sort of got frozen in an unpolished state03:37
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ROBOdsorry to bother...03:38
troy_sSorry ROBOd?03:38
ROBOdwhen i came here today i asked about something is somewhat similar to what you guys discuss now, theme consistency and overall artwork consistency03:39
troy_sLOL03:39
troy_sanyways...03:39
troy_slong story03:39
troy_sbasically we _tried_ to address that03:39
ROBOdwell...03:39
troy_sfschoep was the artist in chief, but ended up being the artist in chains.03:39
troy_s:)03:39
ROBOdhow about consistency between kde and gnome themes?03:40
troy_sno chance03:40
ROBOdi don't mean by default03:40
troy_sas soon as you suggest any form of unifying, you will get serious issues.03:40
AnAntchains ?03:40
troy_swhat i was hoping was that we could have developed a few motifs03:40
AnAntprison ?03:40
troy_sthat we could have migrated between the distributions, that will not happen03:40
troy_sas soon as you offer any sort of 'unify' talk, people get very political.03:41
ROBOdi mean, can't kubuntu have an optional kde theme with human icons, human color theme and "widgets style" (polyester, but better)?03:41
troy_ssure03:41
andreasnROBOd: hm, did tangerine use to display blue folders in kde?03:41
troy_syou could do that yourself.03:41
ROBOdtroy_s: why not provide one by default?03:41
troy_sandreasn -- how's tango going?03:41
troy_srobod:  send your mail to mark03:41
ROBOdtroy_s: one that looks better than mine home-made03:42
troy_srobod:  its free software, feel free to voice your thoughts.03:42
andreasntroy_s: new version of fyre released recently with a new icon, abiword in the works, and some other apps having new icons03:42
ROBOdtroy_s: and ... since some users like the kubuntu theme. i also suggest that you guys provide a theme for gnome which tries to look the same as the kde-default one03:42
troy_sin the end03:43
ROBOdtroy_s: who's mark? email address?03:43
AnAnttroy_s: so I can tell him (mark) that the old splash was better ?03:43
troy_skubuntu, edubuntu, and xubuntu03:43
troy_sare COMPLETELY different projects from Ubuntu03:43
troy_smark controls Ubuntu far more strictly than those other versions03:43
troy_s_far_ more strictly.03:43
andreasnROBOd: as soon as the naming-spec get implemented correctly I think that will be fixed03:43
ROBOdtroy_s: other spinoffs are "different". but kubuntu isn't just *any* spinoff03:43
troy_sandreasn can you email me privately re that?  as in the 'ideal' format for an icons set?03:44
andreasnROBOd: just need a easy way to set all the apps, regardless of toolkit to use a theme/set03:44
ROBOdtroy_s: ubuntu people can't seriously expect users to stay in a gnome-only box, or kubuntu users only in a kde-box03:44
troy_srobod:  believe me, Ubuntu is completely different from the others.03:44
troy_si think dividing things into gnome / kde is folly for the free software community03:44
troy_sthey are nothing but window managers03:44
ROBOdyep03:45
troy_sand your _average_ user -- the folks we want to get involved -- don't care about03:45
AnAnttroy_s: what's mark's email ?03:45
troy_sboth.03:45
troy_sanant:  he is very transparent with it.03:45
troy_stry launchpad.03:45
andreasntroy_s: you mean with the spec and stuff?03:45
ROBOdtroy_s: exactly, most users don't care. they want a consistent interface03:45
troy_sandreasn: yes03:45
troy_srobod:  100% agreement with you03:45
ROBOdand kubuntu is *very* important03:45
andreasntroy_s: sure03:45
troy_srobod:  well... yes and no.  i think people care that when they move their mouse it moves etc03:46
troy_sandreasn:  thanks a bunch03:46
troy_salso andreasn, ship me your private thoughts on how it 'should be done'03:46
ROBOdandreasn: yes, selecting tangerine icons in kde <kde3.5.5 was still using the blue icons for folders and some more03:46
andreasntroy_s: I don't know all the details though, a lot of stuff still in the works03:46
ROBOdandreasn: sorry for the late reply03:46
troy_sandreasn:  what you know and where to watch03:46
andreasnROBOd: what about using tango-icon-theme then?03:46
AnAnttroy_s: how can I find him on LP?03:47
troy_ssorry guys, must run off to pay the rent :)03:47
troy_sbe good.03:47
ROBOdandreasn: the problem is now the folder icons look bad03:47
troy_stake care.03:47
troy_skeep your eyes peeled for fschoep03:47
troy_she will be in here soon03:47
ROBOdandreasn: i always used the tangerine icon theme03:47
troy_sand he has far more insight into the whole affair than i.03:47
ROBOdi just want a human theme, with a colour scheme and everything03:47
ROBOdshouldn't be that much :P03:47
AnAntdoh, what's his name03:47
AnAntthere are many Mark's ther03:48
andreasnROBOd: do they have a weird gradient?03:48
ROBOdi myself use gnome, but i also use amarok, quanta, kolourpaint and some more03:48
ROBOdandreasn: yeah, dark grid-line03:48
ROBOdtop left corner03:48
ROBOdwhere they should be glass-white or whatever03:49
andreasnROBOd: screenshot?03:49
ROBOdi could make a screenshot03:49
ROBOdbut i really gtg now :(03:49
ROBOdbe back later ... will provide a screenshot soon03:49
andreasnsure, I'll probably be around03:49
andreasncatch you later03:49
ROBOdi'll let you know when i'm back03:50
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mhbhi all03:55
effraieho, alone03:55
mhbwhat's the situation about Edgy artwork? I read about a decision to use Dapper artwork in Edgy, is it true?03:55
effraieno03:55
mhbgood :o)03:56
effraiethe situation totally fixed yet, but edgy would have specific artwork03:56
effraiehave a look to the topic links03:56
effraiesituation /is not /03:56
mhbeffraie: yeah, I guess so03:57
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nysosymre03:57
mhbeffraie: IMO it's a bit absurd with all the phases and all, and at the end there is little done03:57
effraieit's not absurd.. it's a human complex process...03:58
effraieart team is young, & open. join us, if you've got any ideas03:59
mhbeffraie: I've been monitoring progress from Dapper to Edgy, but I'm sadly no artist04:00
effraiemany of us are not artist ;) i'm not04:01
mhbeffraie: I have a lot of work now with my other teams (czech l10n and kubuntu testers) so I can't help much :(04:01
effraie;)04:01
frandavid100hi andreas04:08
frandavid100are you there?04:08
frandavid100andreasn I'm the guy who mailed you about the cancel and apply icons04:09
andreasnhey there04:09
andreasnI haven't asked the maintainer about the issue yet I'm afraid :(04:09
frandavid100oopsie04:10
frandavid100what's your opinion on the issue anyway?04:10
andreasnI discussed it with dholbach and lapo a while back before removing the icons, and we agreed that we shouldn't put these icons in tango-common04:11
andreasnbut rather fix it in gnome-icon-theme and tango-icon-theme04:11
andreasnupstream04:12
frandavid100I can't really tell the difference04:12
frandavid100why gnome and tango but not tango-common?04:12
andreasnthere were a lot of bugs about the metaphors04:13
frandavid100AFAIK tango common affects tango and tangerine, right?04:13
andreasnyes04:13
frandavid100and tango does not affect tangerine04:13
frandavid100but gnome does04:13
andreasnand not just a couple of bugs, but a lot of people were outright confused about the cancel icon04:13
andreasntangerine falls back on tango04:14
frandavid100yeah you mean the yellow one right?04:14
andreasnand tango falls back on gnome04:14
andreasnyes, that one04:14
frandavid100I read that04:14
frandavid100but the one I was proposing was not that one04:14
andreasnhm, perhaps I missed that e-mail04:14
frandavid100I agree that one could be confusing... it's more "revert" than "cancel"04:15
andreasnI can send you the icons so you can install them in ~/.icons if you want to04:15
frandavid100but the cancel icon I sent was a red cross... not a yellow arrow04:16
frandavid100I guess we keep the metaphor if we include it04:16
andreasnhold on, I'll see if I can dig that e-mail up04:16
frandavid100thanks04:16
andreasnapart from the color, the cross is very similar to the close-icon though04:17
frandavid100well it's a red cross... it has to be04:19
andreasnwhat would we use for close then?04:19
frandavid100anyway I guess the color stands out clearly enough to tell them apart04:19
andreasnnot if you have impared color vision04:20
frandavid100that's what I was going to say yeah04:20
andreasnor are in a hurry, it's easy to mix them up04:20
andreasnand if it was used in a hospital, people would die04:21
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frandavid100what can be done about it then?04:21
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andreasnwe need to figure out distinctive shapes04:21
andreasnthe yellow arrow was distinctive from the close-cross, but the metaphor was weird04:22
frandavid100so it would be, either change the shape for cancel or the one for close04:22
andreasnyes04:23
frandavid100dunno which one would make more sense though04:23
andreasnand the cross for close is similar to the cross for closing windows04:23
frandavid100I guess the cross makes more sense with cancel, since it's opposed to apply04:23
andreasnbut then we need to change the icon for closing windows as well04:24
frandavid100and the cross and tick symbols are widely applied as opposites04:24
frandavid100One being "yes" or "true" and the other "no" or "false"04:25
andreasna possible way out of the problem would be to solve it in a similar way that the other two operating systems dominating the market does04:25
frandavid100what would that be?04:25
andreasnneither windows nor osx use any icons in their dialog-buttons04:26
frandavid100but that DOES lead to errors04:26
frandavid100it lead me many a time at least04:26
frandavid100anyway, how would we have to change the red cross so it's not so similar to close?04:27
frandavid100since the current cancel is a red cross too04:28
andreasnby using a completley different shape04:28
frandavid100should we make it more closed, like the current?04:28
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frandavid100the one we have now is not completely different though04:29
andreasnperhaps I should bring this up on the tango-artists mailing list04:29
frandavid100that would be cool04:29
andreasnfew of the tango developers are subscribed to the ubuntu-art list04:30
frandavid100I could raise the question in the forums to see if anyone comes up with a good cancel or close metaphor04:30
andreasnare you subscribed to that list?04:30
frandavid100I'm no artist so I can do little more04:30
frandavid100nope04:30
frandavid100but I'm interested, how can I subscribe?04:31
andreasnhttp://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/tango-artists04:31
frandavid100there I go04:31
andreasnalways good to have input from people other than the regular bunch, all tangled up in our old sort of thinking04:32
andreasn:)04:32
frandavid100what abut the apply button? Everything's fine with it I take it?04:33
andreasnyeah, I don't see any problems with that one04:33
frandavid100and the accept one?04:34
frandavid100I didn't send that, it was in previous versions04:34
andreasnI'm thinking there must be some reason they aren't in the regular set yet...04:34
frandavid100I guess the problem was:04:34
andreasnI'm fairly new to this stuff compared to the maintainer04:34
frandavid100they don't like people using "accept" and "cancel" buttons04:35
frandavid100because they're too generic04:35
andreasnthey are quite generic, yes04:35
andreasnso I guess there is a bit of interface politics there :)04:35
frandavid100they say it would be better to use "print", "send", you know, more specific commands04:36
andreasnyes, that usually helps a bunch more in many apps04:36
frandavid100so using those ugly icons would be a way to get app devs to get rid of those buttons and use diffrent ones04:36
andreasnyes04:37
andreasnpretty evil ;)04:37
frandavid100it is04:37
andreasnI think there are some places where OK and Apply makes sense to use though04:37
frandavid100of course, I don't fully get this metaphor stuff and then we have the language barrier, so it could be something totally different04:37
andreasnhow do you mean with the language barrier?04:38
frandavid100I'm not an english speaker, so when people get too technical I have a hard time following them04:39
andreasnwhat about using the system in your native language then?04:39
frandavid100doesn't help in conversation with the devs, rather the other way round04:40
andreasnah, yeah04:40
frandavid100since I don't know what the correct terms are, and I end up having problems to understand AND to make myself clear04:41
andreasnah, yeah04:41
andreasnI run in to that issue myself from time to time04:42
andreasnbut about metaphor, it's the thing you think of when you see the image04:42
frandavid100https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/human-icon-theme/+bug/60424 take a look at this bug04:42
UbugtuMalone bug 60424 in tango-icon-theme-common "GTK default icons used in several places" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] 04:43
frandavid100wow man it was YOU explaining the issue lol04:43
andreasnheh, yes04:44
frandavid100I'm so in shame now04:44
frandavid100haha04:44
andreasndon't worry about it04:44
andreasnI have been thinking about the issue for quite some time04:44
andreasnI better go make some errands before it becomes to late04:45
andreasnlater!04:46
frandavid100see you later andreas04:46
frandavid100I'll do some work too, see you later guys04:46
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=== PingunZ heard rumors about edgy's artwork getting reverted to dapper's ?
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nysosymyes05:05
PingunZnysosym, Is this permanent // why ?05:07
nysosymPingunZ: it seems to be permanent, because no artwork matches with marks specifications05:08
=== PingunZ quits ths channel before he starts flaming ...
PingunZI'm kinda pissed atm05:08
PingunZso .. cya :)05:08
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nysosymlol05:09
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nysosymhi Viper55005:10
Viper550you saw this? https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/usplash-theme-ubuntu/+bug/6481905:10
UbugtuMalone bug 64819 in usplash-theme-ubuntu "[Edgy]  Usplash should use black background" [Wishlist,Confirmed] 05:10
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PingunZCooled down -_-05:15
nysosym^^05:15
nysosymok wb05:15
PingunZI guess there is nobody here that likes the revert ?05:16
Viper550revert?05:16
PingunZYes .. Edgy will use dapper's art05:16
Viper550WHAT THE F-WORD?!?!?!05:16
PingunZIndeed05:16
PingunZI don't know if the kde / xfce version are reverted too05:17
Viper550no, just Ubuntu, kwwii worked hard on the new purple so it stays.05:17
PingunZnysosym, It's not a joke right ?05:17
Viper550no, it isn't. But I do have an idea, I am going to make some new failsafe products05:18
nysosymthere are many many very good works, but mark has some specifications for edgy, he like as good as every work. But there es nothing (not 100%) what would be match with his specifications :D05:18
PingunZIf Edgy uses Dapper's art I'm going to quit this team and look for another distro05:18
PingunZAnd I'm not joking05:19
nysosymhey05:19
PingunZNot that I made a lot of things ( like troy or who ) but .. darn .. I'm really pissed05:19
Viper550what program was it made with05:20
PingunZViper550, ?05:20
Viper550the wallpaper?05:20
nysosymi personally think, that the dapper artwork wouldn't be the final artwork for edgy, because there are too many problems with the community ^^05:20
Viper550I've decided to make some new failsafe wallpapers in Dapper's style...BUT with a new design05:21
PingunZI hope mark was drunk when he told his crew to revert the artwork05:21
=== Viper550 gets to work on new wallpapers
nysosymgood work Viper550 :)05:22
Viper550well, at least if this does become final, my port of Dapper's usplash will be useful05:22
PingunZViper550, Respect, you keep being motivated ..05:23
Viper550how you link up a path in gimp again? i sorta forgot05:24
Viper550nm05:25
nysosymi think the artwork is the thing with the most priority in a BS (especially today). Because the artwork is the first who any people looks, and change in her mind "good" or "bad". A good artwork is the half way to more popularity :D05:25
=== PingunZ agrees ... SuSE ...
nysosym(have a look on Windows Vista, the best example for only a good artwork and nothing new in the background :D05:27
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Viper550umm, Windows Vista has alot new in the BG, even worse - animated wallpapers anyone?05:29
Viper550how big are widescreen walls on ubuntu?05:35
=== PingunZ thinks 1920*1200
PingunZBut I'm not sure05:36
PingunZCan't we like .. mail Mark to tell him we hate his decision ? :D05:37
Viper550they might be bringing up the artwork thing in the meeting?05:44
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Viper550kwwii: Big ubuntu shocker - dapper artwork only! no new artwork for Edgy Ubuntu! Kubuntu and Xubuntu are safe.05:48
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kwwiiViper550: the first I heard of that was today05:48
kwwiithank god kubuntu looks nice :-)05:48
kwwiiViper550: was this announced somewhere?05:49
Viper550package changelogs, and community outcry05:49
kwwiiwow05:50
ROBOdi am back05:50
kwwiiand I thought the whole point was to get something, perhaps not quite done, but good enough as a basis to start making edgy+105:51
PingunZkwwii, totally agree on that05:55
PingunZWe need a kwwii clone for gnome ..05:55
kwwiilol05:55
PingunZLike lokheed :)05:55
PingunZkwwii, Can't you swith to gnome-art ? :D05:55
kwwiiPingunZ: actually, I started off making artwork for Gnome ;-)05:56
PingunZwoah .. where can I see it ?05:56
kwwiiI should get away from being so desktop-specific05:56
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kwwiiPingunZ: in lots of 7 year old gnome packages (and all the suse gnome stuff up till a year ago05:56
kwwii)05:57
PingunZOh yeah .. you're the suse-guy05:57
ROBOd2i'm back05:57
kwwiiwas the suse-guy05:57
PingunZCan't you port all suse art to ubuntu :)05:57
ROBOd2andreasn: are you around?05:57
ROBOd2got the screenshot05:57
PingunZI did it .. my desky looks like suse :p05:57
kwwiilol05:58
PingunZkwwii, http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/39902155/ :)05:59
Viper550this should be the new wallpaper - has a nice Dapperish like vibe to it while still being modern... http://bay01.imagebay.com/bay.php?view=7946_ubuntu-glow-standard.jpg05:59
PingunZViper550, I don't really like that06:00
Viper550why?06:00
andreasnROBOd2: doing the dishes right now, something urgent?06:00
kwwiiPingunZ: hehe, that is pretty wild - looks nice though06:01
PingunZThanks :)06:01
PingunZViper550, Can I tell you later I goto go ;)06:01
ROBOd2andreasn: not urgent. it's just what we talked about, the tangerine icons in kde 3.5.5, kubuntu06:01
andreasnah, yes06:02
Viper550anyone else wanna crituque?06:02
ROBOd2andreasn: when you have time, please let me know06:02
kwwiiViper550: that seems to be like another of those pics that looks neat at a small size, but has too much contrast and lines in it for full-screen06:02
kwwiiViper550: my opinion only, of course06:02
PingunZbut Viper550 I can tell you .. its a but .. painful for the eyes and .. not really nice imo06:02
andreasnROBOd2: sure, need to take care of the kitchen before my girlfriend comes home :)06:02
ROBOd2andreasn: :)06:02
Viper550too bright?06:03
kwwiiViper550: way too much contrast for a default wallpaper06:04
Viper550I lowered the contrast a bit... http://bay01.imagebay.com/full_view.php?view=7947_ubuntu-glow-standard.jpg06:10
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kwwiiViper550: the contrast is better, but I am still not so big on the lines...they seem to distract me eye06:13
Viper550it's the trademark curve!06:15
andreasnROBOd2: so, let's see now, tangerine looks weird on kubuntu06:27
andreasnROBOd2: I think there is a set on kde-look.org that can fix that06:28
andreasnROBOd2: try this one out: http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=4453306:29
ROBOd2andreasn: PM for link06:29
ROBOd2to the screenshot i have06:29
ROBOd2andreasn: as you can see...06:29
ROBOd2the kde icons look pretty bad06:29
ROBOd2the dark gridlines i talked about06:30
andreasnROBOd2: I can't see your private message06:30
andreasnROBOd2: are you logged in on freenode?06:30
ROBOd2oh06:30
ROBOd2no :(06:30
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ROBOd2i got your message06:30
kwwiiI like an orange KDE ;-)06:30
ROBOd2wait06:31
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andreasnkwwii: orange is a totally wild color06:31
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kwwiiandreasn: yes, definitely...perhaps not the right color for the desktop06:31
ROBOddone06:31
andreasnkwwii: btw, will you be at LGM2 in Montreal in March?06:31
kwwiiLGM2? what is that?06:32
kwwiiahhh06:32
kwwiilibre graphics, I guess06:32
andreasnLibre Graphics Meeting06:32
andreasnthe same as in Lyon06:32
kwwiithat would be really cool, yeah06:32
ROBOdandreasn: now, my wish is this needs to be fixed ;)06:32
ROBOdi like the tangerine icons06:32
kwwiiandreasn: only it'll cost me a thousand dollars just to get there06:32
ROBOdandreasn: loaded?06:33
andreasnkwwii: can't you get canonial to sponsor you or something?06:33
kwwiiandreasn: canonical does not usually sponsor that kind of thing, but I could ask :p06:34
andreasnkwwii: never hurts :=06:35
andreasn:)06:35
andreasnkwwii: would be cool to meet in person06:35
kwwiiandreasn: yeah, that is the best part about conferences...actually meeting the people06:36
andreasntotally06:36
kwwiiI guess I could come as an Oxygen sponsor (get KDE to pay)06:36
andreasnyeah, that would be worth a try06:37
andreasnI beg for tickets from the gnome foundation all the time ;)06:37
kwwiihehe06:39
andreasnit works from time to time :)06:39
andreasn"yes, whatever, you can go there then, just shut up!"06:40
kwwiiyeah, I have actually had good luck with getting them to pay for things this year, perhaps I can make it06:40
kwwiiwe'll see06:40
kwwiithanks for mentioning it :-)06:41
PingunZOk, I've been doing some thinking .. I'm going to propose a themeteam for edgy+106:44
PingunZI'll try to do some mockups etc tonight :)06:44
PingunZIs the pixmap gtk engine slower / worse then normal engines ?06:45
effraiePingunZ: i just saw your screenshot (susified) what metacity did you use? i'm looking for it since 2 hours...06:47
kwwiiprobably06:47
PingunZeffraie, That is a compiz theme I made myself :)06:47
effraiearf..06:47
PingunZits on gnome look -> xristal06:47
effraieno metacity port?06:48
PingunZNo .. sorry06:48
PingunZeffraie, Is your pc slow ?06:48
effraieno, it's a ppc06:48
PingunZOh wait .. I just realise :)06:49
PingunZOn that screenshot I'm using Gilouche06:49
PingunZPorted to compiz .. but the original is a metacity06:49
effraieyes, but i can't found gilouche metacity on gnome-look..06:49
PingunZHmm06:49
PingunZwhat's your email adress ?06:49
effraieeffraie@gmail.com (normal times, it's apinc.org, but apinc is in panic mode that week06:50
PingunZeffraie, You could download the MurrinaGilouche gtk theme06:50
PingunZit takes care of the metacity as well :)06:50
PingunZI'm using it :)06:50
effraieok06:50
effraiePingunZ: that's what i was waiting: no metacity included06:53
PingunZO_o06:53
PingunZAre you sure you have the murinna engine installed ?06:53
effraieyes06:54
PingunZgimme a sec, I'll mail it to you06:55
effraiethanks06:55
PingunZeffraie, this is the one you installed http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=44510 ?06:57
effraieyes, i'm using it right now06:58
PingunZeffraie, And you installed the latest murinna engine ? http://cimi.netsons.org/media/download_gallery/murrine/gtk2-engines-murrine_0.12-1_i386.deb06:58
effraiei'm on ppc06:58
PingunZBecause .. I'm pretty sure the metacity is included in that theme06:58
effraieso i build engine from sources06:58
effraiePingunZ: just untar the theme06:59
PingunZeffraie, http://cimi.netsons.org/media/download_gallery/murrine/murrine-0.13.tar.bz2 Here's the source :)06:59
effraiei used the just previous (0.12)06:59
effraiei'll build the 0.1307:00
effraiebut can you send the metacity btw?07:00
PingunZI sent it07:00
effraiethankx07:00
PingunZBut I'm  not sure it'll work07:00
effraiei'll try07:01
effraiePingunZ: it work ;)07:03
PingunZAnd .. ?07:03
PingunZLike it ? :)07:03
effraieyes ;)07:03
effraiejust one question : is it normal that my scrollbars are dark grey?07:04
PingunZno :p07:05
effraieso i'll buld the 0.13 for ppc now ;)07:06
PingunZeffraie,07:07
PingunZ$ ./configure --prefix=/usr --enable-animation07:07
PingunZ$ make07:07
PingunZand then as root:07:07
PingunZ# make install07:07
effraieok07:07
PingunZOh .. I'm soo exited .. I'm working on a theme-team proposal for Edgy+107:07
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PingunZHmm .. What could I pick as main color : Green, Blue, Orange, Gray, .. ?07:12
frandavid100hi again07:12
frandavid100andreasn: are you around?07:13
PingunZhey frandavid10007:13
frandavid100hi PingunZ07:13
frandavid100I was working for a while on that cancel icon07:13
effraiePingunZ: green07:14
effraiei never see a green ubuntu theme07:14
effraiegray is fine too07:14
PingunZeffraie, I doubt between green -> lime , fresh or orange07:14
frandavid100modifying it a bit it has the same shape as the old cancel icon... could you guys take a look at it?07:14
PingunZI'm going to start a vote on ubuntuforums :)07:15
frandavid100what's about the colors PingunZ?07:15
effraie;)07:15
PingunZfrandavid100, I'm going to propose a themeteam for edgy+1 -> I need a main colour :)07:15
frandavid100I'd go for green yeah07:15
PingunZThat 3 votes :)07:15
frandavid100in fact I usually use outdoors and a green BG07:15
=== PingunZ starts a poll on ubuntuforums :)
kwwiiI have soooo much experience making green themes07:16
=== PingunZ is listening to Brown Paper Bag - Roni Size/Reprazent
frandavid100orange is cool but it can get to your nerves after a while, green is more relaxing07:16
kwwiitrue07:16
PingunZkwwii, Could you help mee in this themeteam :)07:16
frandavid100not lime-green though07:16
frandavid100please take a look at those:07:17
frandavid100http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/9441/dialogcancel2kh1.gif07:17
frandavid100http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/3404/pantallazoepiphany3nb3.png07:17
PingunZfrandavid100, I'm open for suggestions :)07:17
PingunZfrandavid100, Too dark imo07:17
PingunZI'll be making a fresh look that's sure07:18
frandavid100I can give you a screenie of my desktop for you to see the tone I like07:18
PingunZGo ahead07:18
frandavid100just hold on for a sec, imageshack seems a bit slow today07:19
PingunZfrandavid100, http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/39902254/ :)07:19
PingunZhttp://www.deviantart.com/deviation/39902155/07:19
frandavid100blue theme?07:19
frandavid100weren't we away from those?07:20
PingunZfrandavid100, I'm just used to it :)07:20
frandavid100I mean I like them, but they're used by windows and macOS07:20
frandavid100http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/1733/pantallazo1vn9.png07:20
frandavid100see, it's a soft green tone, kinda like moss07:21
frandavid100doesn't catch your eye too much but you can look at it all day07:22
PingunZnice07:22
frandavid100I can't see your second link BTW07:22
frandavid100:?07:22
PingunZIts just like the first link I gave you .. just without the cube :)07:23
frandavid100ooh right07:23
frandavid100I like it really07:23
frandavid100I always thought a blue theme should be added, even if only as an option07:23
PingunZfrandavid100, Blubuntu ;)07:24
frandavid100not as default cause it's not very distinctive, but people like blue, they're used to it as you say07:24
PingunZI will be in edgy afaik07:24
frandavid100that's good news07:24
frandavid100you said the cross was too dark right?07:25
frandavid100give me a sec to fix it07:25
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PingunZhttp://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=27615207:34
frandavid100take a look at it PingunZ07:35
frandavid100http://img360.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pantallazopreferenciasfy6.png07:35
frandavid100http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/8954/pantallazopreferencias2vq7.png07:35
PingunZnot bad frandavid100 .. But still .. A little too dark for me :)07:36
frandavid100still too dark? O__o07:37
PingunZIts a real nice theme .. But I need my theme to be bright :)07:37
PingunZShiny .. Fresh :)07:37
frandavid100well it could be made lighter... I just don't want to stray too much from the original one07:37
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frandavid100PingunZ: maybe you should link example images07:44
frandavid100for people to decide what they like the most07:45
PingunZBah .. I just want to see what the mainstream likes most07:45
frandavid100http://img486.imageshack.us/img486/1258/pantallazopreferencias2me2.png07:46
frandavid100the accept one is very CHEAP but you get the idea how it would look07:47
frandavid100anyway, do you think that the cancel one looks too much like the close icon?07:49
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frandavid100just a question about the revert to dapper art... is it provisional or is it going to be definitive08:05
frandavid100I mean, what do you want to do? polish the dapper theme? just leave it as it is?08:05
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Viper550So my wall would look better with no lines?08:14
ROBOdlink08:18
ROBOd:)08:18
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n8k99hi fschoep!08:31
fschoephi08:31
fschoephi n8k9908:31
n8k99sorry about all the trouble with the moderation08:32
fschoepML moderation is going better now eh :)08:32
fschoepno problem08:32
fschoepI'm glad everything's going fine now08:32
n8k99yeah, so much easier when you have access!!! ;)08:32
fschoep;)08:32
Viper550I heard there was going to be work on a new usplash?08:32
fschoepThere's a storm incoming right now08:32
Viper550yes...severe stroms in the area, edgy users are advised to stay in their homes and lock down their artwork packages08:33
fschoepoh dear ;)08:34
Viper550:D just had to!08:34
n8k99viper550 are you talking about the reversion?08:34
Viper550Well, if we're going to be using Dapper's art now, why can't you use my port of Dapper's splash I made?08:34
Viper550n8k99: yes08:34
fschoepbrb08:35
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n8k99I think it just means we have a super good head start for edgy+108:37
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frandavid100hi again08:51
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SqueeAnyone know what happend with edgy's art?09:02
Viper550we all know09:05
Squeeok, can anybody tell me?09:06
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andreasnfrandavid100: Totoro!09:11
frandavid100hi andreas09:11
andreasnsorry for the delay, had dinner09:11
frandavid100I've done a couple mockups to make that icon look like the former one, and I think it resembles it more than the close button now09:12
frandavid100it's a bit cheap cause I used gimp, but you'll get the idea09:13
andreasnhttp://img486.imageshack.us/img486/1258/pantallazopreferencias2me2.png ?09:13
andreasnah, cool09:14
frandavid100yeah that's right09:14
frandavid100I'm quite sure anyone who mistakes that would mistake the current one too09:14
frandavid100they have the same exact shape09:14
andreasnyeah, we want to be better than current though09:15
andreasnanyway, join #tango and share your thoughts09:15
andreasnperhaps someone else than me can offer some thoughts on the issue09:15
msikmaHmm, that cancel icon looks odd09:19
msikmaThe other ones are not crooked at all, but this one is. And very strongly.09:20
zorglu_q. is edgy include a theme to make it look blue like dapper ?09:21
frandavid100yeah msikma it mimics the current cancel icon, so it doesn't resemble the cancel button09:22
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msikmafrandavid100: it shouldn't. The Gnome cancel button was made to appear like a script x. This is not a script x. It's a normal, geometric x.09:31
msikmaThat's what I feel, anyway.09:31
msikmaI think it would look a lot better--and more balanced--to set it straight. It looks a little awkward right now.09:31
msikmaSince it's neither a script x nor a geometric sans-serif x.09:32
frandavid100I'm afraid I don't know what a script x is09:32
msikmaBallot x.09:32
msikma09:32
frandavid100the problem with a straight x is people could mistake it for the close icon09:33
n8k99kwwii: if i run update, am I gonna lose my kubuntu artwork?09:33
msikmafrandavid100: the close icon is at the top-right of the window. The cancel icon isn't.09:34
msikmaIt's a fallacy to say that "people will mistake it". I find it very hard to believe.09:34
frandavid100there are close buttons at the bottom right too09:35
frandavid100big grey cross09:35
frandavid100straight cross09:35
kwwiin8k99: the kubuntu artwork is not being reverted09:36
Squee#join #openwrt09:36
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msikmaMy concern here is consistency. The x does not seem very consistent with the "aplicar" icon. It's made to look like a sans-serif x, but is crooked. To me, it seems like a bad thing. Both using the typeface [in vain]  and breaking what appears to be a good balance.09:36
AnAntis mark here ?09:37
msikmaNo.09:37
AnAntwhat is his username in LP ?09:37
msikmaI'm not sure, sorry.09:37
AnAntor his full name ?09:37
frandavid100I totally agree with you, I'm just trying a suitable cancel button to be accepted in time for edgy09:38
msikmafrandavid100: I think that it's a very nice cancel button. Much nicer than the stuff that's in Human.09:38
msikmaI'd pick it over the current default anytime.09:38
msikmaI'd still like it better if it were a "normal" x, though.09:39
msikmaOr maybe you could try making the x more like an actual ballot x, like this one: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/46/Vote_icon.svg09:39
frandavid100http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/6092/dialogcancellu1.png take a look at the original one09:39
msikmaOh09:39
msikmaThat's the original Tango one?09:39
AnAntok, if I want to suggest that the old edgy-gdm-theme was better than the new one (which is actually dapper's). Do I file a bug on edgy-gdm-theme ??09:39
msikmaWell, I'm sorry, but I like that one better. I just think that it makes more sense to have a non-ballot x be "normal".09:40
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frandavid100I agree with you, but it looks like the art team doesn't want such similar icons09:41
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msikmaI've decided that I shouldn't bother with the artwork team too much anymore for a while. I intend to work on new art after Edgy.09:42
msikmaThis cycle has failed for me.09:42
n8k99kwwii:oh that's pretty swell09:42
andreasnoh, it wasn't the art team09:42
andreasnit was rather tango upstream09:42
msikmaI'm disappointed in some of the higher-ups involved, and that's why I don't feel like working hard to try and get some of my work in for Edgy.09:42
msikmaBut that's how it goes.09:43
frandavid100we're all a bit disappointed I think09:43
msikmaWell, same old.09:44
frandavid100the art revert was a big disappointment for me at least09:44
msikmaWho hasn't done graphic jobs for people who know absolutely nothing about graphic design but think that they know everything about graphic design?09:44
n8k99i think the next deadline needs to be a month before 'furious ferret' is released - in order to insure that the additional documentation such as books can be consistent with what is actually put out09:45
msikmaIt's a real art to be able to persuade people to go along with your route, but I didn't have the time to try this.09:45
frandavid100Me, I haven't :P09:45
msikmafrandavid100: then you're either very very lucky or you're new.09:45
n8k99this cycle was truncated because dapper was pushed back, but our artwork will be more than ready for 'F* F*'09:46
msikmaBy the way09:46
msikmaWhat about Firefox?09:46
msikmaI missed out on the entire debate.09:46
n8k99!Firefox09:47
frandavid100msikma: no, I'm just not a graphic artist haha09:47
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msikmaSo is Ubuntu going to take the extremely non-Ubuntu and non-marketable way of using a Firefox clone just so a few stupid additions could be made?09:47
msikma(Which is totally not what I'd expect of Ubuntu, but rather of Debian zealots?)09:47
msikmaI mean, I thought Ubuntu was aiming to take over part of the market.09:47
n8k99 Ubuntu Philosophy: that software should be available free of charge, that software tools should be usable by people in their local language and despite any disabilities, and that people should have the freedom to customise and alter their software in whatever way they see fit.09:50
msikmaSo? There are non-free drivers in Ubuntu.09:50
msikmaBesides, it's not like the software isn't free.09:51
msikmaFirefox is a fully free work of software in every sense of the word.09:51
n8k99The Mozilla Foundation prohibits the use of the Firefox logo if you alter the code of the web browser - ubuntu alters the code of ff - so honoring MF's request is sutiable09:51
msikmaIt's just that Debian feel that somehow the TRADEMARK POLICY of Mozilla makes the code non-free.09:51
msikmaWhich is why I object to the modifications.09:51
n8k99the logo is trade marked and the MPL states the above conditions09:52
msikmaIt's just stupid to get a different browser than the most ubiquitous piece of free software in the entire world.09:52
msikman8k99: yes, and like I said, it makes absolutely no difference whatsoever to the code.09:52
frandavid100msikma: what's the alternative?09:52
n8k99IceWeasel is FF, with new branding-09:52
msikman8k99: yes, which is why it's terrible.09:53
msikmaI don't see how you don't see that this is terrible.09:53
frandavid100the problem n8k99 is we lose the brand09:53
msikmaHave you ever heard of marketing?09:53
msikmafrandavid100 is right.09:53
frandavid100which is maybe the most important part of having FF09:53
n8k99i understand the loss of a brand - but the loss of integrity is greater09:54
msikmaIt's not like an operating system is something that people will begin to use because it's good. An operating system is something people use because it's brought to their attention in a certain way.09:54
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AnAnttroy_s: u there ?09:54
frandavid100I totally agree09:54
msikman8k99: you're a terrible zealot. The software is free. Completely free. There is no non-free aspect of Firefox. At all. The only thing is that you can't use their trademark if you modify their software.09:54
msikmaIt has absolutely nothing to do with integrity.09:54
frandavid100anyway msikma what else can ubuntu do?09:55
msikmaSo Ubuntu has decided to drop a very well-known trademark (I repeat: the most ubiquitous piece of free software in the entire world) for the sake of a few dumb modifications.09:55
msikmaYes, it can not modify the software.09:55
n8k99msikma: you are right - i am wrong09:55
msikmaIf this were Debian, n8k99, I'd say that you're right.09:55
msikmaBut this is Ubuntu.09:56
frandavid100how important are those modifications anyway?09:56
frandavid100do they affect performance, or what?09:56
msikmaIt's aimed towards getting people to use the system. It's aimed at a general audience. It's not free for the sake of being a free operating system.09:56
n8k99msikma: however, neither one of us actually makes these decisions09:56
msikmaI feel that the decisions are questioning Ubuntu's positioning strategy.09:56
msikmaIn fact, it goes completely against it.09:57
msikmaYet another reason for me to question why I'd even want to contribute to this project.09:57
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n8k99from my understanding, the changes which are made are security based - but you'd have to get a better description of what and how from someone in #ubuntu-devel09:57
msikmaI don't see how Ubuntu can claim to be a free operating system aimed at a general market and then take this decision. It's completely inconsistent with what they claim that they are.09:58
n8k99mskima: what is ubuntu's positioning strategy09:58
msikmaEven security-based reasons are not reasons. Ubuntu isn't exactly the hottest item for a hacker to want to try and crack.09:58
frandavid100have to go guys, take it easy and good night09:59
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n8k99g'night09:59
msikmaUbuntu's positioning strategy can't really be summed up that easily, but generally, it's a free Linux-based operating system that aims to bring the power of the Unix-like operating systems to the general user.09:59
msikmaI'm going away for a while now.10:00
n8k99and by rebranding the browser in order to satisfy the requirement of the MPL, how do they not satisfy this position10:00
msikman8k99: do you have any idea of what a "general audience" is and wants?10:00
msikmaHow does avoiding trademark infringement have ANYTHING AT ALL to do with what I just said?10:00
msikmaTake a marketing course. I don't have the damn time to explain everything to everybody. Just... open up your mind and realize that "free" software (even though this has NOTHING to do with software) isn't always the Great Ideal that all of us chase around like a holy grail.10:01
n8k99i am pretty sure a general audience just wants their computer to work when they turn it on, they don't really care if its MS, Apple or Linux10:01
msikmaYou really are dense.10:01
n8k99once again, I assert that you are absolutely correct10:02
msikmaAnd so I am. It doesn't OUTWEIGH the disadvantages. Linux boxes never get hacked. Ubuntu boxes will not either. So go ahead and use your Iceweasel if it makes you feel more free. You have absolutely no idea of how marketing works.10:03
n8k99so let me get this straight, ubuntu is _doomed_ if they can not use a brand that nobody heard about four years ago.10:04
msikmaI reassert that you know absolutely nothing about marketing and that you should cease to make it appear as though you do.10:04
n8k99i am not trying to make any appearances, these are questions10:05
n8k99sorry if i leave capitals and quotations marks off as one hand must hold an infant while i type10:06
msikmaQuestions? No, you're trying to waste my damn time by provoking me with sarcastic and rhetoric questions. Of course Ubuntu is not DOOMED. But it is HURTFUL to the marketing strategy to not have Firefox over some stupid silly security fixes that won't be necessary for its target audience anyway!10:06
msikmaI'm out of here.10:06
n8k99msikma: am sorry to see you leave10:07
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cbx33hi all10:42
cbx33how do I change the font colour of the Applications./Pleaces/System menu taskbar thingy10:42
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