=== effraie [n=effraie@82.228.146.152] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [12:32] hi, === andreasn [n=andreas@h151n2fls33o839.telia.com] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === fschoep [n=franksch@adsl-dc-35cb8.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [01:28] troy_s: figured you might be online [01:28] yes [01:28] unfortunately [01:28] fschoep, how are things? [01:29] Well === Who_ [n=jonny@jma64.clare.cam.ac.uk] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [01:30] hello people [01:30] Whosie... [01:31] Who_: great to see you [01:31] yea, sorry I don't have long! [01:31] Who_: np [01:31] is jmak around? [01:32] the GDM looks freat, fschoep [01:32] ;) [01:32] who join #temp [01:33] great now everyone will :D [01:33] unlikely [01:33] we are a boring lot [01:33] At this time of day ;) === Viper550 [n=Viper550@d57-121-167.home.cgocable.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [01:40] http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=46645 [01:44] Viper550: nice to see it's available for everyone now [01:45] Viper550: I'm sure it'll fit right in for Edgy [01:45] you actually love it? thank you! took me a few hours to port it down [01:46] Viper550: I see, good work though [01:47] its beautiful [01:47] absolutely beautiful! [01:48] I just think Edgy should ship just with something half different that at least "shows evolution". An updithered version of Dapper's splash with a better progress bar is my definition of "evolution" [01:48] *different=decent [01:49] absolutely [01:49] i think it is incredible [01:49] think it would look good as default? [01:54] anyone still there? [01:57] Viper550: I'm here [01:57] (I was just updating the polish incoming [01:58] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Specs/EdgyArtworkPlan/Polish/Incoming (Added new splash, +replaced usplash_ [02:01] like my new splash fschoep? [02:01] Viper550: it isn't exactly "new" but it's Dapper redone which is nice [02:01] Viper550: I'm sure a lot of people will want to try it [02:02] Viper550: it's on the forums as well, right? [02:02] yeah, posted it everywhere almost! [02:05] even here: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/usplash-theme-ubuntu/+bug/64819 [02:05] Malone bug 64819 in usplash-theme-ubuntu "[Edgy] Usplash should use black background" [Wishlist,Confirmed] [02:05] (oooh, that's neat!) [02:06] thank goodness for ubugtu [02:07] it does 2 types of bugs, ubuntu bugs and bugging other people right? [02:07] @calc 2 * 550 [02:07] 1100 [02:09] oh yeah, beryl can do metacity themes now! [02:09] i mean compiz [02:11] it's going to be fun times for people doing artwork and themes [02:12] my latest "pimpage" of the new usplash: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=1606912#post1606912 [02:17] but troy_S, fschoep, how did you like my login splash? === fschoep [n=franksch@adsl-dc-35cb8.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === Madpilot [n=brian@ubuntu/member/madpilot] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === AndyFitz [n=AndyFitz@c-24-61-243-121.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === Burgundavia [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === AndyFitz [n=AndyFitz@c-24-61-243-121.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #ubuntu-artwork [] === Seveas [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === dborg_ [n=daniel@e182054052.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === msikma [n=Msikma@s55933ad4.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === Burgundavia [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === unfknblvbl [n=hathe@dsl-202-72-170-229.wa.westnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [08:45] looking for a nice terminal/console icon [08:45] any linkage ? === frandavid100 [n=david@84-123-96-251.onocable.ono.com] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === frandavid100 [n=david@84-123-96-251.onocable.ono.com] has left #ubuntu-artwork [] === fschoep [n=franksch@adsl-dc-35cb8.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [10:28] troy_s: ping? === nysosym [n=nysosym@p54B7B6B8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === nysosym [n=nysosym@p54B7B6B8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [11:23] hi all :))) [11:25] hi fschoep :)) [11:26] hi [11:26] phone brb [11:26] :) [11:26] b [11:26] How are you doing nysosym [11:29] badly, because i have some cold :-/ [11:29] oh dear, I hope you get well soon [11:29] thx :) [11:29] how are u? [11:29] A bit.. sleepy [11:29] :) [11:29] Otherwise fine [11:29] thanks [11:31] aahhh, yes i'm a little bit sleepy too :D [11:31] what do you do at moment? [11:32] Sitting, waiting around [11:32] waiting? [11:32] Yeah, like waiting :) [11:33] ^^ what do you waiting for? [11:34] ohh, kernel update, restart.... brbr [11:34] :) === nysosym [n=nysosym@p54B7B6B8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #ubuntu-artwork [] === lapo [n=lapo@host102-254-static.189-82-b.business.telecomitalia.it] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === nysosym [n=nysosym@p54B7B6B8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [11:56] re ^^ [11:57] fschoep: al artworks looks like dapper now? O.o [11:57] hi [11:58] nysosym: right [11:58] nysosym: luckily [11:58] why? [11:58] nysosym: it's the only thing that Mark approved [11:58] hmmm :-/ [11:59] is the temporary or final? [12:00] nysosym: final, as far as I know right now [12:01] hmm i don't like this, but okay, how will people know. That thes use, Dapper or Edgy, there is nothing to recognize [12:01] There are some different icons [12:01] ;) [12:01] ^^ [12:02] yes okay, but nothing what u can see at first blush [12:02] Rounded window corners [12:02] high-res usplash [12:02] but that's pretty much it, indeed [12:05] hmm okay, can i have a look at your work please? :) [12:05] Last thing we tried was creating a new GDM [12:05] theme [12:05] sure, can i see them? [12:06] i know i'm pretty curious :D [12:06] I'm trying DCC send [12:06] Doesn't seem to work [12:06] Your e-mail is (PM)? [12:07] can u see my pm? [12:07] No [12:07] I know [12:07] Eric [12:07] yes :) [12:07] hang on [12:07] thx [12:08] I was a bit sleepy so I didn't remember you are Eric :) [12:08] no problem :) [12:09] maybe i should change my nick ^^ === andreasn [n=andreas@h151n2fls33o839.telia.com] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [12:14] i like it a lot, much better as the dapper one, why does mark criticize them? [12:15] I won't go into that here to prevent escalation ;) [12:15] it's just not going in there yet :) [12:16] ohh noo [12:16] nothing escalate :D [12:17] i respect the mind of mark, but i'm interested on the critic :D [12:17] I see [12:18] Well, the most important things are the colors and the feeling of "glow" around the logo [12:18] those weren't really what Mark was looking for [12:19] ok, well, thx :) [12:21] i hope, edgy+1 will be a little bit "fresher" :D [12:23] fschoep: do u have an account on any instant messenger protokoll? :D [12:23] * protocol [12:23] nysosym: no IRC is already too much too handle for me :) [12:24] fschoep: okay, no problem :D [12:25] damn, these stupid fly's make some shit on my monitor ^^ [12:28] sry for my language.. :-/ [12:28] but this is a real problem ^^ [12:29] I respect mark a lot, but I feel having him "dictate" on graphic stuff is like me dictate on software architecture [12:29] btw it is fully in his rights, so no problems [12:30] yes ;) [12:31] :) [12:32] I really hope for him to pass the graphic decisions to fschoep eventually, only issuing general directions [12:32] lapo: that kind of happened [12:32] lapo: but didn't work out eventually [12:32] fschoep: so it pratically haven't happend yet :-) [12:33] lapo: well, yes - we did a lot of work in the general direction but none of it worked for Mark [12:33] lapo: that's why noone should complain or be dissatisfied - we worked very hard with the team [12:33] lapo: that's way different than what happened during Dapper. For Edgy, we built momentum and worked in a focused way which is really great. [12:34] For Edgy +1 we should concentrate on making sure that whatever we do fits the needs of Mark [12:34] ...from the start. [12:35] fschoep: watch out, the momentum will eventually end if he end results are not very good :-/ [12:36] lapo: right, but Edgy was a testbed to build on the community and I think we succeeded in that [12:36] that's cool [12:37] but I'm kind of not really ok with the general direction mark wanted, the ubuntu looks is getting very ungnomish [12:37] and that's kinda sucks for me because I thought ubuntu is all about gnome [12:37] I see [12:37] btw chaning the looks of stuff is easier with all the specs around now, so I don't really care :-) [12:37] yes, i think although, edgy+1 will be the rival of vista and we should concentrate more for the design of edgy+1. :D [12:38] Going to get some food now, brb [12:38] yes, i'm too [12:38] brb [12:42] yeah, it would be really cool if the ubuntu-art team worked closer together with gnome [12:44] I did feel we made some progress at the summit, where the artists from both redhat and novell met [12:45] together with more "neutral dudes" like me :) === fschoep [n=franksch@adsl-dc-35cb8.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === ROBOd [n=robod@86.34.246.154] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [01:08] hello guys [01:08] is there something being done to provide a theme in kde which makes kde applications look the same in ubuntu? [01:09] same colour theme, same icons, same widgets === bersace [n=bersace@did75-13-82-243-217-90.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [01:14] re === unfknblvbl [n=hathe@dsl-202-72-170-229.wa.westnet.com.au] has left #ubuntu-artwork [] === AndyFitz [i=AndyFitz@nat/redhat/x-ff0976f86acd8fc9] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === frandavid100 [n=david@84-123-96-251.onocable.ono.com] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [02:49] hiya [02:50] I just noticed edgy's artwoek was reverted to dapper [02:50] why was that? === effraie [n=effraie@jem75-1-82-228-146-152.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === AnAnt [n=anant@81.10.9.182] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [03:07] why did you change Edgy's GDM theme today ? It used to be nice ! [03:09] we all ask, no answers :( [03:09] seems so [03:10] andreas, are you there? [03:10] ROBOd: so I'm not the only one who is sad about that theme [03:11] AnAnt: i didn't say i asked about that :P [03:11] not at all [03:11] i asked something else [03:11] oh [03:11] did you guys update gdm-theme today ? [03:12] i don't use edgy yet [03:13] hi guys [03:14] oh [03:15] how are you all? [03:16] we are all feeling marvelous [03:16] thanks for asking troy_s :) [03:17] frank was in here, did edgy revert today? === unfknblvbl [n=hathe@dsl-202-72-170-229.wa.westnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [03:22] anyone wwanna see some cool icons ? [03:23] i dislike the tangerine icons in kde 3.5.5 [03:23] (in kubuntu) [03:24] in pervious versions of kde selecting tangerine icons was futile, since folder icons were not changing to the orange theme, they were forever blue [03:24] now in kde 3.5.5 this was "fixed". the orange icons look horrible, lol [03:29] troy_s: revert ? [03:31] anant: edgy artwork should have reverted to dapper today [03:32] troy_s: yes, it did, it's horrible . Why they did that ? [03:32] troy_s: the GDM theme used to be great [03:32] forward your mail to mark :) [03:32] that's about all you can do. [03:32] basically, when frank uploaded the work [03:32] it was halted [03:32] so no polishing took place at all [03:32] which is unfortunate [03:33] huh ? [03:33] there were plans to unify the metacity borders to the palette etc [03:33] halted = ? [03:33] frank uploaded the 'new' work [03:33] including the newer gdm etc [03:34] it was frozen from polishing because of his dilike [03:34] dislike even [03:34] where can I get the old (before reverting that is) artwork [03:34] ? [03:34] anyways, speak with fschoep [03:34] he disliked what he did ? [03:35] no [03:35] for edgy there was a plan to attempt and address some of the artwork inconsistencies [03:35] oh [03:35] for example, the distinct palette issues from gdm to logon splash to wallpaper [03:35] etc [03:36] what you saw were the first steps towards correcting those anomolies etc. [03:36] needless to say, when frank uploaded his decisions (as artist in chief) he was trumped [03:37] so the work sort of got frozen in an unpolished state === unfknblvbl [n=hathe@dsl-202-72-170-229.wa.westnet.com.au] has left #ubuntu-artwork [] [03:38] sorry to bother... [03:38] Sorry ROBOd? [03:39] when i came here today i asked about something is somewhat similar to what you guys discuss now, theme consistency and overall artwork consistency [03:39] LOL [03:39] anyways... [03:39] long story [03:39] basically we _tried_ to address that [03:39] well... [03:39] fschoep was the artist in chief, but ended up being the artist in chains. [03:39] :) [03:40] how about consistency between kde and gnome themes? [03:40] no chance [03:40] i don't mean by default [03:40] as soon as you suggest any form of unifying, you will get serious issues. [03:40] chains ? [03:40] what i was hoping was that we could have developed a few motifs [03:40] prison ? [03:40] that we could have migrated between the distributions, that will not happen [03:41] as soon as you offer any sort of 'unify' talk, people get very political. [03:41] i mean, can't kubuntu have an optional kde theme with human icons, human color theme and "widgets style" (polyester, but better)? [03:41] sure [03:41] ROBOd: hm, did tangerine use to display blue folders in kde? [03:41] you could do that yourself. [03:41] troy_s: why not provide one by default? [03:41] andreasn -- how's tango going? [03:41] robod: send your mail to mark [03:42] troy_s: one that looks better than mine home-made [03:42] robod: its free software, feel free to voice your thoughts. [03:42] troy_s: new version of fyre released recently with a new icon, abiword in the works, and some other apps having new icons [03:42] troy_s: and ... since some users like the kubuntu theme. i also suggest that you guys provide a theme for gnome which tries to look the same as the kde-default one [03:43] in the end [03:43] troy_s: who's mark? email address? [03:43] troy_s: so I can tell him (mark) that the old splash was better ? [03:43] kubuntu, edubuntu, and xubuntu [03:43] are COMPLETELY different projects from Ubuntu [03:43] mark controls Ubuntu far more strictly than those other versions [03:43] _far_ more strictly. [03:43] ROBOd: as soon as the naming-spec get implemented correctly I think that will be fixed [03:43] troy_s: other spinoffs are "different". but kubuntu isn't just *any* spinoff [03:44] andreasn can you email me privately re that? as in the 'ideal' format for an icons set? [03:44] ROBOd: just need a easy way to set all the apps, regardless of toolkit to use a theme/set [03:44] troy_s: ubuntu people can't seriously expect users to stay in a gnome-only box, or kubuntu users only in a kde-box [03:44] robod: believe me, Ubuntu is completely different from the others. [03:44] i think dividing things into gnome / kde is folly for the free software community [03:44] they are nothing but window managers [03:45] yep [03:45] and your _average_ user -- the folks we want to get involved -- don't care about [03:45] troy_s: what's mark's email ? [03:45] both. [03:45] anant: he is very transparent with it. [03:45] try launchpad. [03:45] troy_s: you mean with the spec and stuff? [03:45] troy_s: exactly, most users don't care. they want a consistent interface [03:45] andreasn: yes [03:45] robod: 100% agreement with you [03:45] and kubuntu is *very* important [03:45] troy_s: sure [03:46] robod: well... yes and no. i think people care that when they move their mouse it moves etc [03:46] andreasn: thanks a bunch [03:46] also andreasn, ship me your private thoughts on how it 'should be done' [03:46] andreasn: yes, selecting tangerine icons in kde troy_s: I don't know all the details though, a lot of stuff still in the works [03:46] andreasn: sorry for the late reply [03:46] andreasn: what you know and where to watch [03:46] ROBOd: what about using tango-icon-theme then? [03:47] troy_s: how can I find him on LP? [03:47] sorry guys, must run off to pay the rent :) [03:47] be good. [03:47] andreasn: the problem is now the folder icons look bad [03:47] take care. [03:47] keep your eyes peeled for fschoep [03:47] he will be in here soon [03:47] andreasn: i always used the tangerine icon theme [03:47] and he has far more insight into the whole affair than i. [03:47] i just want a human theme, with a colour scheme and everything [03:47] shouldn't be that much :P [03:47] doh, what's his name [03:48] there are many Mark's ther [03:48] ROBOd: do they have a weird gradient? [03:48] i myself use gnome, but i also use amarok, quanta, kolourpaint and some more [03:48] andreasn: yeah, dark grid-line [03:48] top left corner [03:49] where they should be glass-white or whatever [03:49] ROBOd: screenshot? [03:49] i could make a screenshot [03:49] but i really gtg now :( [03:49] be back later ... will provide a screenshot soon [03:49] sure, I'll probably be around [03:49] catch you later [03:50] i'll let you know when i'm back === mhb [n=mhb@64.73.broadband3.iol.cz] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [03:55] hi all [03:55] ho, alone [03:55] what's the situation about Edgy artwork? I read about a decision to use Dapper artwork in Edgy, is it true? [03:55] no [03:56] good :o) [03:56] the situation totally fixed yet, but edgy would have specific artwork [03:56] have a look to the topic links [03:56] situation /is not / [03:57] effraie: yeah, I guess so === nysosym [n=nysosym@p54B7B6B8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [03:57] re [03:57] effraie: IMO it's a bit absurd with all the phases and all, and at the end there is little done [03:58] it's not absurd.. it's a human complex process... [03:59] art team is young, & open. join us, if you've got any ideas [04:00] effraie: I've been monitoring progress from Dapper to Edgy, but I'm sadly no artist [04:01] many of us are not artist ;) i'm not [04:01] effraie: I have a lot of work now with my other teams (czech l10n and kubuntu testers) so I can't help much :( [04:01] ;) [04:08] hi andreas [04:08] are you there? [04:09] andreasn I'm the guy who mailed you about the cancel and apply icons [04:09] hey there [04:09] I haven't asked the maintainer about the issue yet I'm afraid :( [04:10] oopsie [04:10] what's your opinion on the issue anyway? [04:11] I discussed it with dholbach and lapo a while back before removing the icons, and we agreed that we shouldn't put these icons in tango-common [04:11] but rather fix it in gnome-icon-theme and tango-icon-theme [04:12] upstream [04:12] I can't really tell the difference [04:12] why gnome and tango but not tango-common? [04:13] there were a lot of bugs about the metaphors [04:13] AFAIK tango common affects tango and tangerine, right? [04:13] yes [04:13] and tango does not affect tangerine [04:13] but gnome does [04:13] and not just a couple of bugs, but a lot of people were outright confused about the cancel icon [04:14] tangerine falls back on tango [04:14] yeah you mean the yellow one right? [04:14] and tango falls back on gnome [04:14] yes, that one [04:14] I read that [04:14] but the one I was proposing was not that one [04:14] hm, perhaps I missed that e-mail [04:15] I agree that one could be confusing... it's more "revert" than "cancel" [04:15] I can send you the icons so you can install them in ~/.icons if you want to [04:16] but the cancel icon I sent was a red cross... not a yellow arrow [04:16] I guess we keep the metaphor if we include it [04:16] hold on, I'll see if I can dig that e-mail up [04:16] thanks [04:17] apart from the color, the cross is very similar to the close-icon though [04:19] well it's a red cross... it has to be [04:19] what would we use for close then? [04:19] anyway I guess the color stands out clearly enough to tell them apart [04:20] not if you have impared color vision [04:20] that's what I was going to say yeah [04:20] or are in a hurry, it's easy to mix them up [04:21] and if it was used in a hospital, people would die === bersace [n=bersace@did75-13-82-243-217-90.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [04:21] what can be done about it then? === mhb [n=mhb@64.73.broadband3.iol.cz] has left #ubuntu-artwork [] [04:21] we need to figure out distinctive shapes [04:22] the yellow arrow was distinctive from the close-cross, but the metaphor was weird [04:22] so it would be, either change the shape for cancel or the one for close [04:23] yes [04:23] dunno which one would make more sense though [04:23] and the cross for close is similar to the cross for closing windows [04:23] I guess the cross makes more sense with cancel, since it's opposed to apply [04:24] but then we need to change the icon for closing windows as well [04:24] and the cross and tick symbols are widely applied as opposites [04:25] One being "yes" or "true" and the other "no" or "false" [04:25] a possible way out of the problem would be to solve it in a similar way that the other two operating systems dominating the market does [04:25] what would that be? [04:26] neither windows nor osx use any icons in their dialog-buttons [04:26] but that DOES lead to errors [04:26] it lead me many a time at least [04:27] anyway, how would we have to change the red cross so it's not so similar to close? [04:28] since the current cancel is a red cross too [04:28] by using a completley different shape [04:28] should we make it more closed, like the current? === Riot777 [n=riot777@unaffiliated/riot777] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [04:29] the one we have now is not completely different though [04:29] perhaps I should bring this up on the tango-artists mailing list [04:29] that would be cool [04:30] few of the tango developers are subscribed to the ubuntu-art list [04:30] I could raise the question in the forums to see if anyone comes up with a good cancel or close metaphor [04:30] are you subscribed to that list? [04:30] I'm no artist so I can do little more [04:30] nope [04:31] but I'm interested, how can I subscribe? [04:31] http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/tango-artists [04:31] there I go [04:32] always good to have input from people other than the regular bunch, all tangled up in our old sort of thinking [04:32] :) [04:33] what abut the apply button? Everything's fine with it I take it? [04:33] yeah, I don't see any problems with that one [04:34] and the accept one? [04:34] I didn't send that, it was in previous versions [04:34]