[12:07] <popey> well.. :)
[12:07] <popey> I know a man :)
[12:07] <jenda> oh no...
[12:07] <cbx33> yeh....we need some nice poster designs...people can print out and make their own
[12:07] <popey> they can do all kinds of stuff
[12:07] <cbx33> and tee-shirt transfer designs
[12:07] <cbx33> really funky think geek stuff ;)
[12:07] <cbx33> clever and witty ;)
[12:07] <Burgwork> jenda: a website like that would rock
[12:07] <jenda> cbx33: is this nice enough: http://www.monipodio.net/tmp/poster-layout.jpg ?
[12:07] <jenda> Burgwork: it has been my primary focus for about three months :)
[12:07] <popey> I'll go and speak to the guys tomorrow and see if they're interested
[12:08] <popey> and see what kind of prices we can get
[12:08] <cbx33> coool artwork jenda
[12:08] <Burgwork> I like that poster, but it really doesn
[12:08] <jenda> However, I'm entirely dependent on other people's technical skills to create the site.
[12:08] <cbx33> popey, :D
[12:08] <Burgwork> t fit with the rest of our artwork
[12:08] <cbx33> Burgwork, we can have some occifial type stuff
[12:08] <cbx33> and some more "fu" stuff
[12:08] <cbx33> fun
[12:08] <Burgwork> that would rock
[12:09] <jenda> Burgwork: it's basically the form Spreadubuntu has taken over the course of time... in my mind :)
[12:09] <Burgwork> that is exactly what we need
[12:09] <popey> pricing is of course an issue
[12:09] <jenda> and some "F-U" stuff too ;)
[12:09] <Burgwork> none of the this duplicating the fridge stuff
[12:09] <popey> woudl you envisage some element of the price of each design going back to the designer?
[12:09] <popey> or not?
[12:09] <jenda> popey: hasn't been much of an issue for me yet - worked OK.
[12:09] <popey> however
[12:10] <jenda> popey: only as voluntary donations. I promised to give 5 free posters to the designer of the poster.
[12:10] <popey> given that people don't get paid for submitting bug requests, there's an argument that they shouldn't expect it for submitting designs for t-shirts
[12:10] <jenda> popey: that is entirely correct.
[12:10] <cbx33> popey ++
[12:10] <Burgwork> I would be careful with money
[12:10] <Burgwork> offering free stuff is better
[12:10] <jenda> only as volunatry donations.
[12:10] <jenda> Burgwork: just try :)
[12:11] <popey> who pays for the printing then?
[12:11] <popey> I was discussing this with Jono more as a commercial enterprise
[12:11] <popey> but am open to other suggestions
[12:11] <cpk2> i could see jendas poster in a bus stop add =P
[12:11] <cpk2> it fit in there heh
[12:11] <jenda> Burgwork, popey: in theory, I have solved this problem by keeping the finances entirely privately managed, from which the entire profit or a 0-100% portion would be donated to Ubuntu.
[12:12] <popey> shipit costs a bucketload of money for ubuntu, I can't see them financing a shitload of t-shirts shipped free
[12:12] <cbx33> true
[12:12] <cbx33> I wouldn't have a problem buying the items
[12:12] <popey> what do you mean by that?
[12:12] <jenda> popey: I print 500 pcs, and sell them very cheap. It pays the price, and a few are left over for the author and to donate.
[12:12] <popey> in english?
[12:12] <popey> ok
[12:12] <jenda> hehe
[12:12] <jenda> it means that:
[12:13] <jenda> I sold 1000 stickers, earned a profit of about $50
[12:13] <popey> i have done a similar thing, I bought a bunch of debian t-shirts and sold them to lug members, the "profit" I gave to the LUG
[12:14] <jenda> I use the money to fund the posters, which is in theory similar to donating to Ubuntu... because whatever the profit is from the posters, It goes either to fund another project, or will be donated directly. I will keep $31.30, ie. 10% of the bare production cost of the posters.
[12:14] <popey> so (for the sake of argument) and to keep the running costs as low as possible, a buy-it-now type auction of 100 t-shirts at 10 quid (for example) each on ebay
[12:14] <popey> once they're gone, they're gone
[12:14] <popey> next design..
[12:14] <jenda> I have a very specific reason to keep them 31.30 - it is to prove that it's possible to do this without interfering with the community ethics etc.
[12:15] <cpk2> how much is 10 quid?
[12:15] <popey> 10 GBP
[12:15] <jenda> Even all the designers know I'm keeping that, and not a single person remarked anything.
[12:15] <jenda> hehe
[12:15] <cpk2> ah ok
[12:15] <popey> that was just plucked out of the air
[12:15] <popey> it's not necessarily a realistic price
[12:15] <popey> although I know I can get them done for 8 quid retail, so less in bulk
[12:15] <jenda> ok
[12:16] <jenda> umm...
[12:16] <jenda> a guy is having them done here in CZ for about 3
[12:17] <cpk2> haha wow
[12:18] <jenda> I plan to make use of that too - the eastern countries are incredibly cheap.
[12:18] <cpk2> i dont even think making shirts myself is that cheap =(
[12:18] <popey> hehe
[12:18] <jenda> I can create and sell a poster for $1 and still have about 25% profit to cover unlooked for losses.
[12:19] <jenda> Let's not forget that :)
[12:19] <popey> heh
[12:19] <jenda> popey: since I just PM'd a guy with the details of my plan for the project, I will edit that and paste it here...
[12:21] <jenda> 1) get this site completed: http://doc.ubuntu.com/~marketing/DIY%20Material/DIY%20Website/DIY%20Website/
[12:21] <jenda> Once the website is done, it can contain several pieces of info that each imply a new function. I think this will come in this order (this seems the only way I can achieve the result - some final release of a complete SU has proven impossible)
[12:21] <jenda> 2) First I will document the batch of stickers I created and sold, then the batch MenZa has created and I'm selling, and finally the posters, and how that works.
[12:22] <jenda> I will include all the digital data and even financial info on the projects, how I contacted the printers etc. I want people to know how much it cost, how much i made, where it went.
[12:22] <jenda> 3) I will scour the resources we have and fill up the bzr branch will all the DIY material I can find and list it all on the site.
[12:22] <jenda> 4) There are several other people now that wish to create DIY material and ship (one wants foil stickers like the windows ones, the other wants blacklight UBuntu posters, there are cups, t-shirts, etc.)
[12:22] <jenda> These will be documented on the site too.
[12:22] <jenda> That includes pix and ordering info (even for the projects I did)
[12:22] <jenda> 5) A general encouragement on how these projects are doable and beneficial for Ubuntu.
[12:22] <jenda> I strongly believe we should allow people to have a profit - that is why I'm taking $31.30 from the poster project (10% of the poster's price).
[12:22] <jenda> I want people to see that it's OK to make a profit, and thus motivate them more.
[12:22] <jenda> It is a big financial risk, and it's best for Ubuntu if it's done by people in cheaper countries, where even somethnig like $31.30 is tangible.
[12:22] <jenda> 6) this is where the hard-designed part ends, and where it starts opening up for ideas... The next thing I'd have in mind would be a list of requested DIY and all other DIY related info... and...
[12:22] <jenda> 7) A database of Marketing HOWTOs - a list of things you can do to spread ubuntu.
[12:22] <jenda> i didn't plan further, but eventually, it should be getting close to what SU was meant to be in the beginning.
[12:22] <jenda> there :)
[12:23] <jenda> And now, I really need to go to bed. I'm usually available here, but will be away this weekend. My email is jenda at ubuntu dot com
[12:23] <popey> sounds great
[12:23] <popey> you don't need me ! :D
[12:23] <jenda> I need all the help I can get :)
[12:23] <popey> unless of course you do :)
[12:24] <popey> ok, go to bed, i need to too, keep in touch on this
[12:24] <jenda> I'd like to know how this differs from what you had in mind... and how it fits in with it...
[12:24] <jenda> (not now :))
[12:24] <popey> it does except I don't think I can offer much?
[12:24] <popey> I don't want to even attempt to compete with you
[12:25] <jenda> There is no such thing
[12:25] <jenda> I _encourage_ people to do their own similar projects.
[12:25] <popey> ok
[12:25] <jenda> I have no interest in making all the DIY material myself - in fact, I never planned to do more than the stickers and posters.
[12:26] <jenda> popey: if what you're thinking is creating material and sending it out to the world for a price you set - then the site is here for you to store pix etc. and give ordering info.
[12:27] <jenda> If, however, you had something broader in mind, I'd love to hear what it was :)
[12:27] <jenda> BTW, the website looks like this now, in its preview: http://doc.ubuntu.com/~marketing/DIY%20Material/DIY%20Website/DIY%20Website/
[12:28] <popey> no, it really was pretty simple, an ubuntu merchandise site for europeans
[12:28] <jenda> ah, OK
[12:28] <jenda> Basically, an alternative to cafepress, right? :)
[12:28] <popey> but it wasn't exactly massively well thought out
[12:28] <jenda> doesn't matter, that's why we talked about it :)
[12:28] <popey> just a n idea I threw jonos way
[12:29] <jenda> hmm
[12:29] <jenda> OK, and are you planning to, perhaps, create some material and ship it?
[12:29] <popey> that was the plan
[12:30] <jenda> In that case, once the site is done, it's there to help you get out to the community :)
[12:30] <popey> :)
[12:30] <popey> ..however
[12:30] <popey> I should point out I have two other "big ideas" which I need to work on, so this one is a back burner for now
[12:30] <popey> :)
[12:31] <popey> but I'm glad we talked about it, it has refreshed my mind somwhat
[12:31] <jenda> hehe
[12:31] <jenda> may I ask what the other two are? (generally)
[12:32] <popey> i have an application that I'd like to develop
[12:32] <popey> which I have earmarked some time for
[12:32] <jenda> ok - that's nowhere near my field :)
[12:32] <popey> the other is training
[12:32] <jenda> training... cool :)
[12:32] <popey> creating training material for ubuntu users
[12:32] <jenda> mhm...
[12:32] <jenda> how does training material differ from documentation?
[12:33] <popey> videos :)
[12:33] <jenda> and have you seen ubuntuvideo.com?
[12:34] <popey> i have, yes
[12:34] <jenda> ok
[12:34] <jenda> I guess you could find a spot there with training videos :)
[12:34] <BHSPitLappy> SO MAD
[12:34] <BHSPitLappy> whoops
[12:34] <BHSPitLappy> so mad
[12:34] <jenda> Hello BHSPitLappy ;)
[12:35] <popey> right, sleepy time
[12:35] <BHSPitLappy> my mom's making this great dinner right now
[12:35] <BHSPitLappy> I can smell it being prepared
[12:35] <BHSPitLappy> but I can't have any
[12:36] <BHSPitLappy> how is that fair
[12:37] <jenda> heh
[12:38] <jenda> that's not fair, and it's OT :)
[12:38] <jenda> But i'm off to bed too.
[12:38] <jenda> night :)
[12:38] <popey> nn
[03:55] <Burgwork> anybody else reading LWN right now?
[03:57] <nixternal_> i am
[03:58] <Burgwork> read the thing about tracking users
[04:14] <elkbuntu> hmm?
[04:17] <Madpilot> Burgwork, why are you still Burgwork, anyway? Not home yet?
[04:18] <elkbuntu> he was 20 mins ago
[04:18] <elkbuntu> as in.. 'still burgwork'
[04:18] <Madpilot> ya, I saw. Just got back
[04:55] <Burgundavia> hey wickedpuppy
[04:55] <wickedpuppy> hi
[04:56] <wickedpuppy> the question or rather the unhappiness is that ubuntu is nice but it includes binary drivers ...
[04:56] <Burgundavia> ah
[04:56] <Burgundavia> so I would say this
[04:56] <wickedpuppy> clearly there are people who are against binary drivers
[04:56] <Burgundavia> Ubuntu doesn
[04:56] <Burgundavia> 't want to have to include to binary drivers, but includes them in a very needed places where things just don't wokr
[04:56] <Burgundavia> primarily these are networking drivers, mostly for wireless cards
[04:57] <Burgundavia> if you want to help Ubuntu not have to ship them, please contact the manufacturer to say that you are unhappy and would like them to release specs
[04:57] <wickedpuppy> I see ... i am going to put it very nicely though ... i am on the local linux user group mailing list
[04:58] <Burgundavia> yep
[04:58] <wickedpuppy> but then why not put those on restricted repo ? after all its just wireless cards .. people has problem with wireless cards all the time
[04:59] <wickedpuppy> if its for mobo .. that would be another thing entirely
[04:59] <wickedpuppy> no mobo ... no install
[05:00] <Burgundavia> they are in the restricted section
[05:00] <Burgundavia> you just need to install them by default, as otherwise there is no way to download the wireless card
[05:00] <Burgundavia> do you see the chicken and egg issue?
[05:00] <wickedpuppy> oh yes i see it
[05:01] <wickedpuppy> but sometimes pureness is against logic
[05:01] <wickedpuppy> then i go nut
[05:01] <Burgundavia> I would rather use free drivers as well
[05:02] <wickedpuppy> well i suppose that would be all. Thank you very much for the help Burgundavia
[05:02] <wickedpuppy> :P
[05:02] <Burgundavia> no worries
[09:46] <Burgundavia> anybody awake?
[09:46] <Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue17  need proofing
[09:47] <elkbuntu> sure
[09:48] <elkbuntu> i just had the stupidest job interview ever. instead of good-cop bad-cop, it was dumb and dumber, and instead of a floodlight it was the afternoon sun behind them so i couldnt actually look at them :-/
[09:48] <Burgundavia> elkbuntu: watch out for collisions
[09:48] <Burgundavia> hedgemage and cbx33 from #edubutnu are also looking
[09:49] <elkbuntu> i'll wait then
[09:49] <Burgundavia> cheers
[09:49] <Burgundavia> I plan on sendin first thing
[09:49] <Burgundavia> so you have 8 hours
[09:49] <elkbuntu> ok
[09:50] <Flannel> Burgundavia: "his videos present" instead of presented
[09:52] <Burgundavia> Flannel: please edit it inline, in turn
[09:52] <Burgundavia> elkbuntu: I want the wiki + gobby
[09:52] <Flannel> Burgundavia: right.  Wasn't sure what the right protocol for it was ;)
[09:52] <Burgundavia> or we just wait for telepathy allow tomboy or gedit collaborative
[09:53] <elkbuntu> ok. gobby ip address again?
[09:54] <Burgundavia> all on the editing page
[09:54] <Burgundavia> but for now please keep it in the wiki
[09:55] <elkbuntu> ah ok then. wiki slow on my end, that's all
[09:55] <Plug> Burgundavia: I wanted to add something about the new network-manager PPTP VPN support I've been working on
[09:55] <Plug> Is there still a 'cool new feature' section?
[09:55] <Burgundavia> Plug: is it in teh archive yet?
[09:55] <Burgundavia> if it hit the archive after the 7th, it belongs in 18
[09:56] <Plug> probably later than that - I'll whip something up for 18 then.
[09:57] <Plug> I see "Feature of the Week" has mostly disappeared lately?
[09:59] <Burgundavia> yes, mostly due to not having any volunteers
[10:00] <Plug> ok, if you have anything you need done, just point me at it
[10:15] <Burgundavia> elkbuntu: go to town
[08:53] <serenity> hi
[08:56] <serenity> We are planning a Edgy Eft Releaseparty in Germany, just for your notes.
[09:03] <Mitch_> elkbuntu -- wow; ubuntucounter.org has 200,000 hits in the last 4 days =S
[10:52] <Burgwork> http://www.dailycupoftech.com/?page_id=47
[10:52] <Burgwork> heh
[10:53] <Burgwork> http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/articles/book_review_beginning_ubuntu
[11:08] <Burgwork> http://www.arsgeek.com/?p=625
[11:21] <jenda> Mitch_: wow :)
[11:32] <BHSPitMonkey> Mitch_, is it your site?
[11:32] <BHSPitMonkey> aw why can't I just use my launchpad login
[11:32] <Mitch_> no no... not my site.
[11:32] <Mitch_> its Elkbuntu's site.
[11:32] <Mitch_> i host it free for her
[11:33] <BHSPitMonkey> hmm
[11:33] <Mitch_> =)
[11:33] <Mitch_> and all ubuntu related sites...
[11:33] <BHSPitMonkey> I wonder if the existence of nubuntu suggests that ubuntu itself isn't secure
[11:39] <jenda> BHSPitLappy: not anymore than SELinux suggests that Linux isn't...
[11:40] <BHSPitMonkey> k
[11:41] <jenda> ...or Enigmail suggesting that email isn't :-D
[11:42] <BHSPitMonkey> it isn't
[11:55] <jenda> I know :)
[11:55] <jenda> That's why I like enigmail
[11:59] <jenda> nixternal: email for you in the locoteam list ;)