[11:10] <fschoep> good morning everyone
[11:40] <lapo> ciao
[08:50] <fschoep> Seveas: ping
[08:52] <Seveas> fschoep, pong
[08:53] <fschoep> Seveas: I'm sorry to ask this
[08:53] <Seveas> don't be. "Vragen staat vrij"
[08:53] <fschoep> Seveas: but do you have some time to create a usplash theme from a new PNG :) ?
[08:53] <fschoep> it's the Ubuntu logo on black
[08:53] <Seveas> do you know *all* criteria for usplash?
[08:53] <fschoep> A lot of them
[08:53] <Seveas> because today I was surprised to find out more demands from the dev team
[08:54] <fschoep> Yeah for AMD64 we need 640x400 and 640x480 as well I read
[08:54] <Seveas> ok, you know them
[08:54] <fschoep> using vga16
[08:54] <fschoep> I think
[08:54] <Seveas> I'll ping the artwork list in a second with a complete list of what I know
[08:54] <fschoep> Is it possible to combine high-res and low-res?
[08:54] <Seveas> yes
[08:55] <fschoep> At least that's an advantage
[08:55] <fschoep> I've played around with a new design today
[08:56] <fschoep> And it's definitely better than the current one
[08:56] <fschoep> Should also work on lower resolutions and colors
[08:57] <fschoep> Seveas: shall I send you an e-mail with the design(s)?
[08:58] <Seveas> If you want the theme to be created, that would be a good thing to do ;)
[08:58] <fschoep> ;)
[09:01] <fschoep> I'll tweak them a bit and send them over, thanks :)
[09:02] <fschoep> brb
[09:21] <Viper550> guess what, we got new Usplash requirements
[09:21] <fschoep> :)
[09:21] <fschoep> I'm working on it, Viper550, Seveas has been really helpful.
[09:22] <Viper550> 640x400 scaled, 16 colors and 640x480 scaled at 256. Other resolutions optional, safety not guaranteed
[09:22] <fschoep> Seveas: ping, I mailed you the design
[09:23] <Viper550> But still, how are we going to work around fancy progress bars? They usually share the same color depth with all the main images (256), how are we going to handle that part?
[09:23] <fschoep> Viper550: if it is problematic, we'll need to use a flat progress bar
[09:23] <Viper550> There MUST be some way to disable fancy progress bars for specific depths
[09:24] <Viper550> Is there a way you can disable them just for specific depths?
[09:24] <fschoep> Maybe for Edgy +1?
[09:24] <fschoep> I don't think messing with usplash some more right now is a good idea :)
[09:25] <Viper550> Or, make sure the 16 colors in the 16 color image are the same ones used only on the progress bar?
[09:25] <Viper550> and make sure these 16 colors are also part of the main 256 pallete?
[09:25] <Seveas> facncy progress bar can work at 16 colors too
[09:26] <fschoep> OK
[09:26] <Seveas> you just need a bar with the sam 16-color palette as the 16 color image
[09:26] <Seveas> yes it sucks
[09:26] <fschoep> Which is problematic
[09:26] <Viper550> that's what I was trying to say!
[09:26] <Seveas> and no, I didn't think this uo
[09:26] <Seveas> up*
[09:26] <Seveas> I only implemented the possibility for fancier things
[09:26] <Seveas> (well, the theme related bits of it)
[09:26] <fschoep> Seveas: if my new artwork gives troubles regarding that, can you use a simple flat orange-on-dark-grey progress bar?
[09:27] <Seveas> definitely
[09:27] <fschoep> OK, to be honest I think that'll be better than the current progress bar ;)
[09:27] <Seveas> current in your new design or current as in currently in edgy?
[09:27] <Seveas> the one in edgy is not bad
[09:27] <fschoep> current as in current edgy
[09:27] <fschoep> well, it doesn't fit with the GTK theme
[09:28] <Seveas> true
[09:28] <fschoep> I tried looking into that
[09:28] <fschoep> but I wasn't sure how to work around the palette
[09:28] <fschoep> I wouldn't mind a flat progress bar for this release
[09:30] <PingunZ> hey fschoep can I pm you ?
[09:30] <fschoep> PingunZ: sure
[09:30] <PingunZ> It'll take like 1 minute :)
[09:30] <fschoep> PingunZ: go ahead, make my day
[09:33] <Viper550> well, it's good that I'm just porting Dapper's Usplash to Edgy, it was already 640x400x16 colors by default!
[09:34] <Seveas> fschoep, the logo in the 256 color variant is a bit too bright imho
[09:34] <fschoep> Seveas: the Circle of Friends
[09:34] <fschoep> ?
[09:35] <Seveas> then again, looking at it twice makes the brightness go away, weird
[09:35] <Seveas> yes, the CoF, but ignore the comment
[09:35] <fschoep> Seveas: it's a bit bright compared to the text
[09:35] <fschoep> Seveas: but we're running with this for the GDM so the usplash should be "consistent" :)
[09:36] <Seveas> I could integrate the GTK progressbar with it if you want
[09:36] <fschoep> Seveas: Oooh shiny. I'd love to see that.
[09:36] <fschoep> Seveas: what about the background?
[09:36] <Seveas> of what?
[09:36] <fschoep> Seveas: will you darken the GTK p'bar background so it fits more into the black?
[09:37] <fschoep> the orange is OK, but I'm not sure if we want light grey as a background for the pbar
[09:37] <Seveas> I'll experiment with it a bit
[09:37] <fschoep> OK, great
[09:37] <Seveas> how wide do we want the pb?
[09:38] <fschoep> Right now it's 216 px right?
[09:38] <Seveas> I think so
[09:39] <fschoep> It's 8 px tall
[09:39] <fschoep> Maybe go to something like 320x16 px?
[09:39] <fschoep> At that size you can at least *see* the thing
[09:40] <Seveas> 320x20
[09:40] <msikma> Viper550: 640x480x32
[09:40] <msikma> 32 bits, that is
[09:40] <Seveas> that's what I get from a screenshot of a properly resized zenity --progress
[09:40] <msikma> So that usplash I had designed was also rejected?
[09:40] <msikma> e.g. this one http://thingmajig.org/tmp/usplash_plus/final/usplash_rlsl_7.gif
[09:40] <Viper550> ???
[09:40] <Seveas> msikma, I'm using it on my machine, I think it rocks
[09:41] <Seveas> but alas, my taste is not what matters
[09:41] <fschoep> Seveas: 320x20 is fine
[09:41] <fschoep> Seveas: msikma: the spotlight is awesome but marketing's got some issues with the branding
[09:42] <msikma> I really am having trouble seeing why I should stay and continue contributing. You guys rock, and we are really getting awesome stuff done, but this just isn't getting me, you, or anyone anywhere.
[09:42] <msikma> Ubuntu marketeers are idiots. They'll graciously allow terrible misuse of their flagship product's logo font on the website and even let Firefox go for a "more free" alternative, but they have a problem with a human circle logo that has a bit of bevel.
[09:43] <fschoep> msikma: I feel your pain
[09:43] <Seveas> msikma, this cycle was about getting an artwork team off the ground
[09:43] <msikma> It isn't so much pain as it is distrust.
[09:43] <Seveas> docteam went through the same pain a few releases ago
[09:43] <msikma> I don't trust the marketing team.
[09:43] <Seveas> and motu even before that
[09:43] <msikma> I no longer trust Mark because he has no knowledge of artwork and still accepts or rejects submissions based on personal preference.
[09:43] <fschoep> msikma: you shouldn't :)
[09:44] <fschoep> msikma: that's the d from sabdfl
[09:44] <msikma> So I don't see why I should stay.
[09:44] <msikma> fschoep: it certainly isn't a b.
[09:44] <Viper550> In GIMP, is there a way you can type in a hex code and check if it's in an indexed pallete?
[09:44] <fschoep> msikma: well he tries to make the right choices
[09:44] <Seveas> msikma, time goes against b in a 4-month cycle
[09:44] <msikma> He tries to meddle with things he has no knowledge of. He's a bad client if I ever saw one.
[09:44] <Viper550> If I were in charge, it would be more orange, and more gloss!
[09:45] <Seveas> especially when a team doesn't deliver the required milestones according to a fixed schedule
[09:45] <fschoep> msikma: I can fully understand your concerns
[09:45] <andreasn> msikma: I feel your pain, the only time I trust people who are not graphic designers themself on graphics design is when I get cash for it :)
[09:45] <fschoep> Meet me
[09:45] <msikma> There are two reasons for me taking up a project.
[09:45] <msikma> One is cash. I'm not getting any here. The other is a project being awesome and me being able to use it as portfolio material.
[09:46] <msikma> Well, sorry, I shouldn't be wasting your time like this. I'll think about it.
[09:46] <fschoep> Who of you would consider being AiC for Edgy +1?
[09:46] <fschoep> msikma: don't worry - I'm here for you
[09:47] <msikma> I think you did a fine job as AiC, but think that perhaps it would have been easier for us to meet requirements if we had just one target to meet (e.g. one style).
[09:47] <Seveas> msikma, the style was supposed to be set early
[09:47] <Viper550> me? or I'd make a better one for Xubuntu, Xubuntu hasn't had much good stuff lately, and there is inconsistancy now between Kubuntu/Xubuntu and Ubuntu!
[09:47] <Seveas> that wasn't done by either artteam or mark
[09:47] <Seveas> same for the other milestones
[09:47] <Seveas> artteam had lots of momentum, but little direction
[09:48] <Seveas> realistically, I didn't expect much more in a 4 month cycle
[09:48] <fschoep> Well, too little *right* direction I'd say now
[09:48] <msikma> I would be a terrible AiC because of two reasons. One is potential inactivity (I'm just too busy, even though I'd free up my spare time should I be AiC) and second is my deep belief that designers should design and programmers should program based on that design--not designers designing something based on programming. Which is really awkward and backwards, but almost inevitable on this project.
[09:48] <Seveas> for edgy +1 I'm sure you (fschoep) can make it all go much better now that we have a basic direction to go on
[09:49] <fschoep> Seveas: I'm not going to be AiC for Edgy +1 afaic
[09:49] <Seveas> pity
[09:49] <fschoep> Don't worry - we'll make sure someone else does an even better job
[09:49] <msikma> What about troy_s? I'd be all for him.
[09:49] <Seveas> troy_s and fschoep are the only ones i'd consider as AiC
[09:50] <fschoep> troy_s hasn't got the time to do it
[09:50] <msikma> We've had some great discussions and he's had a good influence on me.
[09:50] <msikma> I think that the AiC job should be split.
[09:50] <msikma> AiC should just be a designer, not a secretary to a designer as well.
[09:50] <fschoep> troy_s is far better artistically than anyone here I'd say, I hope noone minds me saying that
[09:50] <fschoep> msikma: that's the problem
[09:51] <msikma> I mean, you've done a lot of stuff which I'd consider nonsense for an AiC, fschoep.
[09:51] <fschoep> msikma: being AiC like this is not about creating artwork
[09:51] <fschoep> msikma: :)
[09:51] <Viper550> so, how do you disable fancy progress bars?
[09:51] <fschoep> msikma: the plan we set out during UDS Paris was different
[09:52] <fschoep> fschoep: than just me creating some graphics
[09:52] <msikma> I think that an AiC would be most efficient if he were able to focus solely on marketing of the product.
[09:52] <fschoep> Right, that's true I think
[09:52] <msikma> And that would require writing a lot of e-mails, too.
[09:52] <msikma> Along the design work.
[09:52] <Seveas> Viper550, don't put a pointer for draw_progress functions in the struct and DO put in fg/bg color indices
[09:52] <msikma> But doing red tape like mad would not pertain to the job.
[09:53] <Viper550> I'm going to branch my Tangerine theme, a fancy version for Gnome-Look, and a non-fancy version for Ubuntu
[09:53] <msikma> Ideally.
[09:53] <fschoep> msikma: I tried to up the community involvement for Edgy, getting to work in a focused way.
[09:53] <fschoep> msikma: I never went into this trying to design everything myself
[09:53] <msikma> Of course not.
[09:54] <fschoep> We've made great progress I think. the end result is suboptimal, but the road we took wasn't the easy one.
[09:54] <msikma> But I do expect that they'd let you perform your duty as artist, plotting out a general account of the marketing direction that the rest of the team is to follow. Then you, and the team, produce propositions, of which one is chosen, embraced and extended upon.
[09:55] <fschoep> Indeed. More intense collaboration with Mark initially would have made life much easier.
[09:58] <Viper550> So, would I enter in the 640x400 version the same way as the 640x480 and change the ratio?
[09:58] <fschoep> Viper550: not sure, I think 64x48 uses more colors?
[09:59] <Seveas> 640x480 = 256 colors
[09:59] <Seveas> 640x400 = 640x480 with 16 colors, scaled to 640x400
[10:00] <Viper550> into the .c file!!!
[10:00] <fschoep> Viper550: then yes, I think
[10:01] <Viper550> ratio is USPLASH_16_9 right?
[10:02] <fschoep> Hmm, 640x480 is 4_3, 640x400 as well I think. Seveas?
[10:02] <Seveas> 640x400 is a special case
[10:02] <Seveas> tag it as 4_3
[10:02] <Viper550> okay
[10:03] <Seveas> the whole 4_3/16_9 thing is broken anyway, will do that better for fuzzy
[10:03] <Viper550> now to do some positioning using Fireworks (yes, I've been using Fireworks and the seperate PNGs to size my work
[10:03] <Viper550> fuzzy? you mean edgy+1 has a name already?
[10:03] <fschoep> Fireworks, isn't that an expensive package by Macromedia / Adobe?
[10:03] <Viper550> Fuzzy Ferret?
[10:03] <fschoep> Fiery Fox
[10:03] <fschoep> :P
[10:04] <Viper550> Sorta like Photoshop, will not say how I obtained it. It's not illegal, but I just don't wanna talk about it
[10:04] <Viper550> is that name offical?
[10:04] <fschoep> Viper550: just trying to bait you ;)
[10:04] <fschoep> No it isn't
[10:04] <fschoep> All we know is it could be called Fantastic Frank (or worse) ;)
[10:04] <fschoep> j/k of course
[10:05] <Seveas> actually, Frank Fly is a proposed name
[10:05] <fschoep> Really?
[10:05] <fschoep> So Frank Frank is also an option?
[10:05] <Viper550> I've been using the X/Y postioning of the bitmaps and keying them into the .c file
[10:06] <Seveas> how on earth do I darken an image in the gimp
[10:07] <Seveas> I'll do it the crude way: semi transparent black layer
[10:07] <fschoep> Seveas: right click - layer - colors - brightness + contrast
[10:07] <fschoep> There's a lot of stuff under there, you could also use layer - colors - levels and adjust them
[10:07] <Viper550> do I do the end differently on a nofancybars theme?
[10:08] <Viper550> delete everything including void t_animate_step(struct usplash_theme* theme, int pulsating) { and all after it?
[10:08] <Viper550> all that void stuff at the end=gone right?
[10:09] <Seveas> yes
[10:10] <Seveas> fschoep, ahhh, shiny
[10:10] <fschoep> Seveas: gimme gimme :)
[10:10] <Seveas> in corel photopaint, where i learned image editing, there was no right click menu that contains everything
[10:10] <fschoep> Oh dear
[10:10] <fschoep> :)
[10:10] <fschoep> You know
[10:10] <Seveas> fschoep, I just finished the images, the hard work only just begins...
[10:10] <fschoep> The Gimp also has a menu bar in each image window
[10:11] <fschoep> Seveas: I thought you finished it, but then realized you found out the right click menu :)
[10:11] <fschoep> Seveas: did you really not know it?
[10:12] <Seveas> fschoep, no
[10:12] <Seveas> I'm terrible at the gimp
[10:12] <fschoep> Seveas: oh dear, right-click is THE most useful button you can press in the gimp ;)
[10:12] <Seveas> anyway, is http://kaarsemaker.net/~dennis/progressbar_empty.png dark enough?
[10:12] <fschoep> I think so, yes - let's try it
[10:13] <fschoep> You're good with the Gimp though!
[10:13] <Seveas> ok, then I'll create a preliminary theme (first the painful work of extracting a palette
[10:13] <Seveas> and no, imagemagick +map does NOT do what I want
[10:13] <fschoep> Yes, the palette stuff is really too complex
[10:13] <fschoep> I used Gimp for it once and almost gave up
[10:13] <Seveas> unfortunately, also too neccessary
[10:14] <fschoep> Gimp palette editor is a tool from hell it seems
[10:14] <Viper550> Stupid Windows All Programs Menu, doesn't scroll fast enough!
[10:14] <fschoep> Viper550: ever tried Mac OS X?
[10:14] <Viper550> sorta, but it's way faster
[10:14] <msikma> Vista is such an ugly system.
[10:15] <fschoep> msikma: +1
[10:15] <Viper550> well, when it's not in Aero Glass
[10:15] <msikma> Also, Viper550, I gave you a 640x480x32 PNG image of the Dapper usplash a while ago, there's no need to alter the aspect ratio.
[10:15] <msikma> I honestly cannot understand some of the Vista design decisions.
[10:15] <Viper550> I know
[10:15] <fschoep> msikma: have you got 1 minute?
[10:15] <fschoep> msikma: you did a usplash design for Dapper, right?
[10:15] <msikma> It's similar to the Zune/iPod differences.
[10:16] <msikma> Yeah, I did. This one, to be exact: http://thingmajig.org/tmp/newsuggestion_0_32.png
[10:16] <Viper550> fschoep: yep, he did! I'm maintaining a "port" of it for Edgy
[10:16] <fschoep> msikma: was yours inspired by Breezy's?
[10:17] <Viper550> of course it was! he just recolored it
[10:17] <msikma> Yeah, it was actually a remake of Breezy's. I didn't like the fact it had quite mercilessly been downscaled to the aspect ratio after already being saved to a less amount of colors.
[10:17] <fschoep> msikma: Viper550: OK, thanks - that clears up the confusion :)
[10:17] <msikma> Nah, it wasn't a recoloring. That would've been easy, but I didn't like the dithering at all. It was messed up.
[10:18] <Viper550> oh, I thought it was just a basic recolor at first...still, you beat my tangerine gloss splash by 7 votes!
[10:18] <fschoep> I was confused a bit about the origin of the design :)
[10:18] <fschoep> Yeah, Dapper usplash voting was SO much more fun than Edgy ;)
[10:18] <Viper550> yeah, bring back voting, it was way funner!
[10:19] <Viper550> p.s. mskima: http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=46645 for your Dapper splash Edgyized
[10:19] <msikma> Thanks, that is really cool.
[10:19] <msikma> The progress bar also looks much better than the one in Dapper.
[10:20] <msikma> I'd make the inactive bar a little darker, though.
[10:20] <Viper550> oh yeah, this is the best tool ever, http://blogs.ubuntu-nl.org/dennis/2006/09/13/more-fun-with-usplash/
[10:20] <Viper550> Usplash Switcher for Edgy, it MUST be included on Edgy +1
[10:21] <msikma> Maybe a little like this: http://gamingw.net/pubaccess/28695/quicky.png
[10:21] <Seveas> Viper550, in case you didn't know yet, /me == Dennis Kaarsemaker ;)
[10:21] <Viper550> oh,
[10:21] <Seveas> Viper550, and usplash_switcher on my disk is already more useful
[10:21] <fschoep> :)
[10:22] <Seveas> (it can do resolution magic)
[10:22] <Viper550> you already have it?
[10:22] <fschoep> he wrote it
[10:22] <Seveas> once it does animation in the preview, I'll add it to the sourcepackage for others to play with
[10:22] <Viper550> oh, didn't know that either!
[10:22] <msikma> :)
[10:23] <msikma> What is it made in?
[10:23] <fschoep> python
[10:23] <Seveas> no
[10:23] <Viper550> Python GTK
[10:23] <fschoep> probably
[10:23] <Seveas> C
[10:23] <Seveas> Can't do it in python anymore
[10:23] <msikma> Very nice.
[10:23] <Viper550> GTK in C
[10:23] <msikma> I'm reading K&R.
[10:23] <Seveas> ctypes is too useless for it now
[10:23] <Seveas> (stupid lack of RTLD_LAZY)
[10:24] <Viper550> Although, I think you should make the UI a bit more like Bootskin (a Windows application) http://www.wintips.nl/files/scr6/BootSkin.gif
[10:25] <Viper550> a list instead of those buttons
[10:25] <Seveas> Viper550, I'm no designer -- this UI is just my attempt at violating as many gnome HIG rules as possible ;)
[10:25] <fschoep> :P
[10:25] <Viper550> rofl
[10:25] <Seveas> but yeah, the bootskin ui looks useful -- too windows like though
[10:26] <Seveas> but I'll definitely add a Scrolledwindow to the VBox containing the buttons
[10:26] <Viper550> so it automatically regenerates the initrd and everything automatically?
[10:26] <Seveas> yes
[10:26] <lapo> yo
[10:26] <Seveas> if you know a bit of c, you should read the code
[10:26] <Seveas> it's not hard to understand
[10:26] <Viper550> Now, add auto-compiling of Usplash themes and I'll be happy!
[10:27] <Seveas> Viper550, that's on my list for edgy+1
[10:27] <Seveas> but imagemagick is too stupid
[10:27] <Viper550> But, it will automatically have to install build-essential and usplash-dev if it isn't installed yet
[10:30] <Seveas> so?
[10:31] <Seveas> python-apt to the rescue
[10:31] <Viper550> Yeah!
[10:32] <kwwii> evening
[10:32] <Viper550> horray for python-apt (for people just joining us)
[10:32] <fschoep> hi kwwii
[10:32] <kwwii> hi fschoep
[10:32] <fschoep> hi :)
[10:32] <fschoep> kwwii: interested in being AiC for Edgy ?
[10:32] <kwwii> wassup with the ubuntu art these days? (/me ducks)
[10:32] <fschoep> Edgy +1?
[10:33] <fschoep> ;)
[10:33] <kwwii> lol
[10:33] <kwwii> are you flying to CA?
[10:33] <fschoep> I'm running to combine bits and pieces and make something out of it this week. We got a freeze exception (yay!).
[10:33] <kwwii> hehe, cool
[10:33] <Viper550> Thank me for it
[10:33] <fschoep> kwwii: I'm not going to CA, sorry
[10:34] <fschoep> kwwii: you on PPC?
[10:35] <kwwii> fschoep: yepp
[10:36] <fschoep> kwwii: darn, you haven't got Flash on it then/
[10:36] <kwwii> fschoep: well, my laptop still has osx on it
[10:36] <msikma> Viper550:
[10:36] <Viper550> I've got Flash, both types of Flash (Flash MX and Flash Player 9)
[10:36] <msikma> Here's how I would do the bar: http://gamingw.net/pubaccess/28695/dapperusplashtoedgy.png
[10:36] <msikma> (Image looks a little too bright here in Firefox...)
[10:37] <fschoep> kwwii: I'd send you to http://www.myspace.com/oceansedge but that won't work now
[10:37] <Viper550> does it still comply with the 256 colors?
[10:37] <msikma> http://gamingw.net/pubaccess/28695/dapperusplashtoedgy.jpg This one looks accurate
[10:37] <msikma> Oh, it doesn't, but that shouldn't be too much of a problem.
[10:38] <fschoep> kwwii: I can e-mail it so you can check it in Mac OS X, there's two new tracks on that page
[10:38] <kwwii> fschoep: hehe, killer!
[10:38] <msikma> http://gamingw.net/pubaccess/28695/dapperusplashtoedgy.gif
[10:38] <msikma> 256 colors
[10:38] <kwwii> fschoep: dude, you are not 17, or?
[10:38] <kwwii> :-)
[10:38] <fschoep> kwwii: the CD will be in the mail shortly, I had some problems with DAO / RAW burning and need to make some new discs
[10:38] <fschoep> kwwii: 17? No!
[10:38] <fschoep> kwwii: ;)
[10:38] <msikma> Anyway, that scroll bar isn't perfect either. But that's a quick outline of what I'd do (just a bit more contrast between done and undone, and the fancy reflection)
[10:38] <kwwii> ;-)
[10:38] <fschoep> kwwii: I didn't get the joke at first :P
[10:38] <fschoep> duh
[10:39] <msikma> Actually, might want to make the contrast less than that. The bar is more prominent than the logo now.
[10:39] <msikma> hmmmm
[10:39] <kwwii> lol
[10:40] <fschoep> kwwii: doing fine?
[10:40] <Viper550> but still, it's beautiful!
[10:41] <kwwii> fschoep: yepp, wondering what I will do post-edgy
[10:41] <Seveas> fschoep, 640x480 version done, will do 800x600 now, the rest tomorrow
[10:41] <fschoep> Seveas: thanks!
[10:41] <fschoep> kwwii: same here
[10:41] <nysosym> hi all :)))
[10:41] <fschoep> kwwii: no word from sabdfl or something?
[10:41] <fschoep> hi nysosym
[10:41] <nysosym> hi fschoep, how are u? :)
[10:42] <fschoep> nysosym: fine thanks, you?
[10:42] <nysosym> yes, fine too :)
[10:42] <kwwii> fschoep: yepp, he wants to rotate the position, as he said in paris (so I suggested a good friend, who will also come to CA)
[10:42] <nysosym> fschoep: what does the edgy artwork? :D
[10:43] <fschoep> nysosym: something new every week :P
[10:43] <nysosym> ^^
[10:43] <fschoep> kwwii: I see, but he hasn't asked you to do something else for Fuzzy Fox or something?
[10:43] <msikma> http://gamingw.net/pubaccess/28695/dapperusplashtoedgy2.gif
[10:43] <msikma> Maybe something like this then
[10:43] <msikma> But the bar still probably needs to be 2px smaller.
[10:43] <kwwii> fschoep: not yet...who knows what will happen
[10:43] <Viper550> I prefer the other one
[10:43] <fschoep> kwwii: uncertain, the future is
[10:43] <msikma> Whatever, you'll figure it out
[10:43] <msikma> :P
[10:44] <nysosym> fschoep: the current artwork (dapper) isn't the final one? :D
[10:44] <fschoep> nysosym: that depends
[10:44] <fschoep> nysosym: whether or not Mark agrees pixel by pixel with the new designs
[10:44] <kwwii> fschoep: indeed
[10:44] <fschoep> nysosym: I'm trying my best to give it one more shot
[10:44] <kwwii> fschoep: in the meantime I am making a new website to drum up business
[10:44] <nysosym> fschoep: good new, thx for your work! :)
[10:44] <fschoep> kwwii: clever
[10:44] <fschoep> kwwii: preview online or something?
[10:45] <fschoep> nysosym: you're welcome :)
[10:46] <kwwii> fschoep: well, http://sinecera.de but only one of the links work and it is too a funky preview of kde developer pics
[10:47] <nysosym> looks good, i like the new KDE icon style :D
[10:47] <fschoep> kwwii: looking good, I see you really got used to the purple?
[10:47] <kwwii> :p
[10:47] <kwwii> I am sooo sick of making things green!
[10:48] <fschoep> I see, I liked the lightness of the design very much
[10:48] <kwwii> thanks
[10:48] <fschoep> SineCera - is there a deeper meaning?
[10:48] <kwwii> it still has a way to go (I need to make a logo, etc.)
[10:49] <lapo> the nice side of colorblindness is that you don't have to get used to purple :-)
[10:49] <kwwii> it means "without wax" in latin (in Rome they would chisel that into works of stone to say that it has no hidden imprefections, which at that time would be filled in with wax)
[10:49] <fschoep> lapo: you got deuteranopia or similar?
[10:49] <lapo> fschoep: exact
[10:50] <fschoep> kwwii: I see, thanks for explaining
[10:50] <kwwii> lapo: yeah, but you can see more blues better than all of us
[10:51] <lapo> uhm...yeah, sure I see blue even the purples :-)
[10:51] <kwwii> the guy I sat next to at suse was color-blind and I did not know it for years until one day I came in and saw he had changed his desktop to pink and green
[10:52] <nysosym> nice combination :D
[10:53] <lapo> my desktop is all grey :-)
[10:54] <nysosym> like kde 1.0 ? :D
[10:54] <lapo> naaaah
[10:54] <lapo> it was cool tho
[10:54] <lapo> like dark grey
[10:55] <nysosym> can i see some screen-shots? :)
[10:55] <Seveas> fschoep, the theme rocks
[10:56] <fschoep> Seveas: are you sure :) ?
[10:56] <Seveas> usplash being broken stands in the way of making it rock completely though
[10:56] <fschoep> Seveas: still broken?
[10:56] <Seveas> yes
[10:56] <Seveas> fix for progressbar hasn't been uploaded yet
[10:56] <Seveas> and text is still broken in bzr
[10:56] <fschoep> Seveas: OK
[10:57] <Seveas> do you want the source now?
[10:57] <Seveas> or can it wait until tomorrow?
[10:57] <lapo> nysosym: sure
[10:57] <fschoep> Seveas: tomorrow is fine
[10:57] <fschoep> Seveas: will it be early or late tomorrow?
[10:57] <fschoep> :)
[10:57] <Seveas> early
[10:57] <fschoep> OK, then it's perfect
[10:57] <fschoep> Thanks so much for doing this
[10:57] <Seveas> I'll tease with a screenshot
[10:57] <fschoep> Shoot!
[10:58] <fschoep> I've already seen the theme a bit ;)
[10:58] <Seveas> others haven't ;)
[10:58] <fschoep> True
[10:58] <Seveas> installing package
[11:00] <lapo> nysosym: http://xoomer.alice.it/bat/tmp/Schermata.png
[11:00] <Seveas> http://ubuntu-nl.org/~dennis/usplash_final.png
[11:01] <lapo> Seveas: nice to see the current one going away! :-)
[11:01] <fschoep> Seveas: looking good :)
[11:01] <Seveas> fschoep, merci
[11:01] <Viper550> That is looking awesome!
[11:01] <kwwii> I wanna see that in 16 colors
[11:01] <kwwii> :p
[11:01] <nysosym> lapo wow, looks good, very good! :)
[11:01] <fschoep> kwwii: right ;)
[11:02] <kwwii> the 16 color thing is a reall problem
[11:02] <fschoep> kwwii: for 16 colors I tried the logo using flat shading
[11:02] <kwwii> it means that there need to be two different versions of the usplash artwork as the diffference in colors is simply too great
[11:02] <fschoep> it kind of works
[11:03] <nysosym> brb restart :D
[11:04] <Viper550> That is a piece of awesome, make a Kubuntu version NOW!
[11:04] <Seveas> Viper550, I thought kwwii is responsible for kubuntu art?
[11:05] <Viper550> But you can also contribute of course! We have a simliar glossy logo
[11:05] <nysosym> re
[11:05] <fschoep> Yeah, kwwii is responsible for Kubuntu and sabdfl for Ubuntu ;)
[11:06] <Viper550> Once we get some feedback from the forums, I'll give it to you as it comes in
[11:06] <msikma> Seveas: what on earth happened to that Ubuntu logo? It looks like it was made on a yellow background and then cut into a black background.
[11:07] <fschoep> NN-rescaling?
[11:07] <Viper550> yeah, what mskima said!
[11:08] <Seveas> msikma, that's due to the less-than-optimal scaling in the usplash-switcher
[11:08] <msikma> I see
[11:09] <msikma> Still looks very odd. As though it has a yellow bevel.
[11:09] <Viper550> Why not do a recreation like I did with my usplash "screenshots"?
[11:09] <fschoep> msikma: I think it looks yellowish now, but it really isn't. The original image has a slight bevel on it, but it's more neutral than it looks now.
[11:09] <Seveas> Viper550, they don't blend enough with the rest of the artwork (gdm, lsplash)
[11:10] <Viper550> ??? I mean for making a better screenshot of it
[11:11] <Seveas> fschoep, hmm, actually, the bevel comes out rather bad
[11:11] <Seveas> didn't notice it before
[11:11] <msikma> Let's see if SheepShaver bridges the network so I can surf the web with it.
[11:11] <kwwii> yeah, that is what I thought
[11:11] <fschoep> Which is weird since I tried rescaling and it still looked fine?
[11:12] <kwwii> if there is a problem with scaling, the best thing to do is stay away from sharp edges or light colors on the edges
[11:12] <fschoep> Seveas: how did you rescale that screenshot?
[11:12] <Seveas> fschoep, crude
[11:13] <fschoep> Seveas: In Gimp -> Image size -> Bicubic?
[11:13] <Seveas> but I the scaling in the usplash themes is done by the gimp and also comes out wrong
[11:13] <Seveas> fschoep, yeah
[11:13] <fschoep> Was it RGB before scaling?
[11:13] <fschoep> Or indexed?
[11:13] <Seveas> rgb
[11:13] <Seveas> I indexed after scaling
[11:13] <fschoep> OK, that's odd
[11:13] <Viper550> I updated my Usplash theme with a new progress bar, and 640x480 support! http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=46645
[11:13] <fschoep> Does the screenshot display the 1024 scaled down?
[11:14] <Seveas> the 640 scaled down
[11:14] <msikma> Viper550: the color decreasing is awful on that picture.
[11:14] <Seveas> but the 1024 looks odd as well
[11:14] <fschoep> Does it look good without scaling?
[11:14] <msikma> The bar is all messed up.
[11:14] <fschoep> If you open the PNG?
[11:14] <Seveas> yes
[11:14] <Viper550> on the new splash?
[11:14] <Seveas> let me send them to you
[11:14] <fschoep> Seveas I guess it's only the scaling in the preview then
[11:15] <Viper550> but still, the new progress bar is slightly ugly!
[11:15] <msikma> Yeah, the new one you just linked to has a really messed up bar
[11:15] <msikma> Did you just add it to the existing image? Its colors should be reindexed.
[11:15] <Seveas> fschoep, no, please see the images in http://ubuntu-nl.org/~dennis/usplash-theme-ubuntu_0.2-1.tar.gz
[11:16] <Seveas> those are the images in the theme
[11:16] <Seveas> merley resized and paletted
[11:16] <Viper550> I could try doing some adjustments if I can
[11:16] <fschoep> Seveas: how big is the palette?
[11:17] <Seveas> 256 colors
[11:17] <Seveas> but the palette kills it
[11:17] <Seveas> let me try a different way of extracting the palette
[11:17] <fschoep> Which is odd, because it looked good on my system
[11:17] <Viper550> the contents of the pallete?
[11:17] <Seveas> but that HAS to wait until tomorrow, since it is now bedtime
[11:17] <fschoep> How do you create the palette? Using Gimp or imagemagick?
[11:17] <Seveas> gimp
[11:17] <fschoep> Seveas: I understand
[11:17] <kwwii> fschoep: on different hardware things look differently
[11:18] <fschoep> kwwii: right, but hardware doesn't make a difference in the dithering algorithm
[11:18] <Viper550> I'll redo the logo and pallete
[11:18] <fschoep> Seveas: I'll try some things and e-mail you the results
[11:18] <kwwii> fschoep: it depends on the phyical size of your monitor compared to the resolution supported
[11:18] <fschoep> kwwii: the PNGs themselves are already fubar it seems
[11:19] <kwwii> ouch
[11:19] <Seveas> the palette I use is bad
[11:19] <msikma> Let's see if Internet Explorer 4.5 has any CSS support.
[11:20] <msikma> Ohh, nice.
[11:20] <fschoep> Seveas: don't worry too much now, sleep well and we'll try something tomorrow
[11:20] <Seveas> kwwii, you're an imagemagick wiz, right?
[11:24] <kwwii> Seveas: I try to keep up with it, yeah
[11:24] <Seveas> kwwii, I have 7 images and want to make one big image from them
[11:24] <Seveas> I know imagemagick can do it
[11:24] <Seveas> but how?
[11:26] <fschoep> Seveas: you need *one* palette of 256 colors for both the design and the pbar?
[11:26] <Seveas> yes
[11:26] <fschoep> Seveas: can you send me the bits and pieces and I'll try to create one
[11:27] <kwwii> Seveas: "montage" is the tool you want
[11:27] <kwwii> http://www.imagemagick.org/script/montage.php
[11:28] <kwwii> then take that image and make the best palette out of it
[11:28] <kwwii> and cut it to pieces
[11:28] <kwwii> you will get the best palette for all pics
[11:29] <kwwii> not the best for any given size
[11:29] <Seveas> hmm, montage resizes the images
[11:29] <kwwii> if you start at the large sizes and then work down the smaller pics do not look optimal
[11:29] <kwwii> Seveas: not if you do not want it to
[11:29] <Seveas> I don't want it to, but it does
[11:30] <Viper550> would the bar look good without stripes?
[11:31] <kwwii> Seveas: funky... http://www.imagemagick.org/script/command-line-options.php#resize seems to say it does nto do that
[11:32] <Seveas> kwwii, the images are 640x480 upwards, the resulting image is 512x252
[11:32] <fschoep> Seveas: I'm going to log off now, if you e-mail me the stuff you need palettized I can take a look at it
[11:33] <Seveas> g'night
[11:33] <kwwii> fschoep: night man, sleep well
[11:33] <fschoep> Seveas: kwwii: same to you :)
[11:33] <kwwii> Seveas: I guess that if you give the size explicitly it will work?
[11:33] <kwwii> there is also the "size" option to define sizes for pics which have an unknown size
[11:33] <kwwii> use that instead then
[11:34] <Seveas> pngs have a known size
[11:34] <Seveas> it's in the header
[11:34] <Seveas> montage simply doesn't do what it's supposed to
[11:34] <Seveas> like any other imagemagick function I tried so far
[11:35] <Seveas> sigh
[11:35] <Seveas> bedtime
[11:35] <kwwii> hehe
[11:35] <kwwii> night
[11:35] <Viper550> I thought all Montage did was make those imagemap thingys...
[11:35] <kwwii> nope
[11:35] <kwwii> I honestly do not know what the problem was, as I do not use montage much
[11:36] <Viper550> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=278624 (response on the splash screen)
[11:37] <kwwii> lol, I love the first comment
[11:37] <Viper550> (I see what you mean :D )
[11:37] <Viper550> since you made it!
[11:37] <kwwii> the next one is not really an issue
[11:37] <kwwii> :p
[11:38] <Viper550> and the 3rd one disses it, yet compliments mine!
[11:38] <kwwii> too much discussion about the technical implementation which cannot be changed at this time
[11:40] <kwwii> hehe
[11:40] <kwwii> yeah
[11:40] <Viper550> yeah, they seem to have forgotten that with some clever adjustments in your menu.lst
[11:41] <Viper550> (if you would like to modify my Tangerine Usplash for Kubuntu with a blue color scheme and the nice GLOSSY progress bar kwwii, be my guest!)
[11:42] <kwwii> link?
[11:42] <Viper550> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=46645
[11:42] <Viper550> Someone in the thread also made a reference to the new progress bar
[11:52] <Viper550> you still there kwwii?
[11:55] <kwwii> yepp
[11:55] <kwwii> to be honest, I like the idea with the progress bar but I think that the logo should be the one used throughout the rest of the artwork
[11:56] <kwwii> making the progress bar more like the ubuntu one would be a good idea
[11:56] <kwwii> with the gradients, highlights, etc. from the new kubuntu logo used now
[11:56] <Viper550> yeah
[11:57] <Viper550> but, this theme is a purpose outside of Ubuntu as a service to those who prefered Dapper's design next to Edgy's current "mediocre" splash
[11:58] <kwwii> sure, but I am talking about kubuntu
[11:59] <kwwii> I think that the kubuntu usplash screen could use the same kind of progress bar (with updated highlights, gradients, lines to match the new logo)
[11:59] <kwwii> I tried to stick to the ideas that ubuntu had a long time ago
[11:59] <kwwii> that is where the current progress bar comes from :-)
[11:59] <kwwii> I stole it!
[11:59] <kwwii> well, I borrowed the idea
[12:00] <Viper550> oh...
[12:00] <kwwii> don't worry, we'll give it back :p
[12:00] <Viper550> if you wanna borrow anything from my usplash theme, be my guest! it's GPL, go wild!
[12:01] <kwwii> ;-)
[12:02] <kwwii> did you make the progress bar used in the current ubuntu usplash?
[12:02] <Viper550> kinda, I implemented it, msikma made it
[12:05] <kwwii> wanna try your hand at making the same kinda progress bar to match the new kubuntu logo?
[12:06] <Viper550> Hmm, okay! I'll recolor it to match with your current Usplash's pallete. All you have to do is change the diemensions to have a height of 24