[12:17] <ajmitch> Toadstool: usual procedure is to let one of the MOTU UVF team know
[12:19] <Toadstool> ajmitch: and you're part of that team? :)
[12:19] <pygi> Toadstool: are you reading pm's ? :P
[12:19] <Toadstool> pygi: yup
[12:19] <pygi> oki, please respond then :)
[12:20] <ajmitch> Toadstool: sure
[12:20] <ajmitch> Toadstool: it helps if we know what's been uploaded when kamion asks for approval
[12:21] <Toadstool> yup, then there will be a gnomebaker upload in a few minutes
[12:21] <ajmitch> as I can tell :)
[12:22] <Toadstool> heh
[12:31] <Toadstool> pygi: pdebuild-ing
[12:56] <bhale> hi imbrandon
[12:56] <imbrandon> ello bhale
[12:56] <imbrandon> nick change?
[12:57] <bhale> yes
[12:57] <imbrandon> ;)
[12:57] <imbrandon> you should let me have brandon ;)
[12:57] <imbrandon> hehe
[12:57] <bhale> someone has it
[12:57] <bhale> i believe
[12:57] <imbrandon> yea , i thought it was you
[12:57] <bhale> [notice(NickServ:NickServ@services.)]             Nickname: brandon
[12:57] <bhale> [notice(NickServ:NickServ@services.)]           Registered: 1 year 6 weeks 5  days (3h 24m 46s) ago
[12:57] <bhale> [notice(NickServ:NickServ@services.)]            Last Seen: 4 days (9h 19m 42s)  ago (brandon|around seen 4 days (9h 19m 42s) ago)
[12:57] <bhale> [notice(NickServ:NickServ@services.)]    Last Seen Address:  n=brandon@72.158.105.2
[12:58] <bhale> its not me
[12:58] <bhale> [notice(NickServ:NickServ@services.)]             Nickname: Tseng
[12:58] <bhale> [notice(NickServ:NickServ@services.)]           Registered: 3 years 37 weeks 4  days (22h 9m 26s) ago
[12:58] <bhale> he's too new :)
[12:58] <imbrandon> ;)
[12:58] <imbrandon> iirc he does linux stuff but not ubuntu
[12:58] <imbrandon> i talked to him long ago when i registerd on freenode
[12:59] <bhale> i know several brandon's
[12:59] <bhale> but not this one
[12:59] <imbrandon> bhale, you comming to mtv ?
[12:59] <bhale> no
[12:59] <imbrandon> ahh darn ;(
[12:59] <bhale> i'd rather have my appendix put back and removed again
[12:59] <bhale> sorry.
[12:59] <imbrandon> hahahaha
[01:00] <imbrandon> he registered just before me
[01:00] <imbrandon> [17:59]  [Notice]  -NickServ-            Nickname: imbrandon << ONLINE >>
[01:00] <imbrandon> [17:59]  [Notice]  -NickServ-          Registered: 1 year 12 weeks 5 days (20h 14m 55s) ago
[01:00] <bhale> the best part of that was waking up with no appendix, and finding out you are just as sick as when you started
[01:00] <imbrandon> well with this nick, i had another a few years back i let expire
[01:00] <bhale> (and sliced open twice)
[01:00] <imbrandon> lol
[01:01] <bhale> family guy preempted by baseball
[01:01] <imbrandon> i just got done watching the cheifs get slaughtered
[01:01] <bhale> baseball starts 9 months ago or something
[01:02] <bhale> it never ends
[01:02] <imbrandon> heh
[01:02] <imbrandon> there is a short off season
[01:02] <bhale> its called spring training
[01:03] <bhale> oh good, MythBusters is on
[01:04] <imbrandon> you know i ment mountain view cali not music television right brandon ?
[01:04] <imbrandon> lol
[01:04] <bhale> yes
[01:04] <bhale> Ubuntu Lockin 6
[01:04] <imbrandon> kk just thought i would make sure with all the tv talk ;)
[01:05] <imbrandon> hahah Lockin , havent thought about that in a long time
[01:05] <bhale> thats what it is
[01:05] <imbrandon> basicly yea , heh
[01:06] <imbrandon> wb LaserJock
[01:06] <bhale> yay LaserJock
[01:06] <imbrandon> hum , i need some extra contract work *thinks*
[01:08] <LaserJock> hi everybody
[01:09] <imbrandon> how go's it LaserJock
[01:10] <LaserJock> hmm, I don't know
[01:11] <LaserJock> I'm kinda sick of reading "Why do you ignore feature/user group/package X ?"
[01:12] <imbrandon> heh, me too , but i kinda just give them a generic answer and go on
[01:12] <imbrandon> just do what i can
[01:13] <imbrandon> i hate it when it creeps up 2 weeks before release, i'm like youve had 4 months to mention this before
[01:13] <LaserJock> mhm
[01:13] <imbrandon> then they get all pissy
[01:14] <LaserJock> well, I don't want to tell people "We simply don't have time or resources" cause then it sounds like Ubuntu is in really bad shape
[01:14] <LaserJock> but that's usually exactly what happens
[01:14] <imbrandon> well it is true, we are limited
[01:14] <imbrandon> as bad as it sounds its not really "bad"
[01:14] <imbrandon> but thats hard to explain , i hear ya
[01:15] <imbrandon> my latest plight is trying to make libgpod work with the new ipods without introducing a new version
[01:15] <LaserJock> it's also a catch 22
[01:15] <imbrandon> this late in the cycle
[01:15] <LaserJock> as you need people to test and report bugs
[01:15] <imbrandon> seems apple has pushed a new firmware
[01:16] <LaserJock> but then it becomes harder to fix bugs becuase we are trying to stabalize
[01:16] <imbrandon> LaserJock, exactly
[01:19] <LaserJock> I don't know how people can stand more then 1 or 2 releases
[01:19] <Toadstool> pygi: great! the patch attached to the bug report is not complete :p
[01:20] <pygi> Toadstool: ehm?!
[01:20] <Toadstool> hey LaserJock & imbrandon
[01:28] <LaserJock> hi Toadstool
[01:28] <pygi> what happened!!?
[01:28] <Toadstool> pygi: device.h modification is missing in the patch attached to the bug
[01:28] <pygi> o joy, is the upstream (SF bug attachment) patch complete?
[01:28] <Toadstool> I don't know, I took the diff directly in the cvs
[01:28] <imbrandon> heya Toadstool
[01:28] <Toadstool> pygi: ok, with the missing chunk, it builds fine ;)
[01:28] <pygi> good :P
[01:28] <Toadstool> you sure you tested that patch thoroughly? :p
[01:28] <LaserJock> we're supposed to test things? ;-)
[01:28] <Toadstool> heh
[01:30] <Toadstool> pygi: uploaded
[01:31] <pygi> Toadstool: yes, the patch works 100%
[01:32] <slomo> imbrandon: for ipod stuff look at libipoddevice, the new version works with the new firmware but it's not really a trivial change
[01:33] <imbrandon> slomo, yea the new version of libgpod does too ( that amarok uses ) but this late in the cycle i hate for a main uvf ( and doubt it would go though anyhow )
[01:34] <slomo> imbrandon: i don't think it will be approved too ;) i asked for a far more trivial upload earlier today and got a "no" as answer
[01:34] <imbrandon> i have a amarok package on imbrandon.com that has the stuff for mtp and mp4v2 enabled from multiverse for people that need it to make their devices work i might just put it there for now
[01:35] <imbrandon> and worry about a "better fix" for edgy+1
[01:35] <imbrandon> and then backport it if someoen requests it
[01:36] <imbrandon> i hate to go that route but this late it seems to be the only good option
[01:36] <imbrandon> sides it will give me some good feedback for when it does get uploaded ;)
[01:40] <shawarma> slomo: Do you think you could do a no-change upload of texlive-bin? See bug #65658
[01:40] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 65658 in texlive-bin "pdflatex: symbol lookup error: pdflatex: undefined symbol: _ZN4Dict3addERK10UGooStringP6Object" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65658
[01:40] <shawarma> slomo: If a no-change upload can't get an exception I don't know what can. :-)
[01:41] <slomo> shawarma: thanks for noticing... i'll care for it :) ajmitch, what do you think? ;)
[01:42] <shawarma> slomo: I tend to notice when my university project report fails to compile. :-)
[01:46] <LaserJock> heh
[01:46] <LaserJock> I wondered
[01:52] <LaserJock> hmm, anybody know off hand how long Gnome has been around?
[01:53] <whiprush> 1997-ish
[01:53] <bhale> hi whiprush
[01:53] <bhale> LaserJock: shortly after KDE
[01:53] <LaserJock> huh, I thought it was later
[01:54] <bhale> i started using it in 98-99
[01:54] <LaserJock> I was probably using minux about that time ;-)
[01:56] <LaserJock> more likely Debian on ~11 floppy disks
[01:57] <bhale> i spent a week downloading redhat at 28.8
[01:58] <LaserJock> yeah, I wasn't that excited
[01:58] <LaserJock> I just wanted a shell to play around with
[01:58] <LaserJock> it wasn't until I started grad school that I really started using Linux
[01:59] <LaserJock> :/
[02:00] <ajmitch> slomo: you're on the uvf team, you can decide :)
[02:00] <ajmitch> afternoon all
[02:01] <LaserJock> I never even tried slack
[02:02] <shawarma> slack was my first distro as well. I was young and nave back then.
[02:02] <shawarma> I found my first Linux CD's a couple of months ago. They were from '96, I think.
[02:03] <LaserJock> the first distro I used for more then 1 month was Gentto
[02:03] <shawarma> LaserJock: Oh, dear. When was this?
[02:03] <imbrandon> only becosue it took more than a month to compile the desktop
[02:03] <imbrandon> ;)
[02:03] <shawarma> heh :-)
[02:04] <LaserJock> haha
[02:04] <LaserJock> that was 2002
[02:04] <shawarma> n00b!
[02:04] <LaserJock> I used Gentoo for about 2 years
[02:04] <shawarma> :-P
[02:04] <shawarma> :-)
[02:04] <LaserJock> I really liked it
[02:04] <imbrandon> LaserJock, and still never got kde to boot ?
[02:05] <imbrandon> hehe \
[02:05] <LaserJock> gentoo rocked dude
[02:05] <LaserJock> things "just worked"
[02:05] <imbrandon> yea i know, i use it on some servers here
[02:05] <imbrandon> but its a pita
[02:05] <LaserJock> and it had all the apps I wanted
[02:05] <LaserJock> but yeah, I was a KDE guy back then
[02:05] <shawarma> LaserJock: What are you doing here then?
[02:06] <LaserJock> and recompiling all of KDE all the time ...
[02:06] <imbrandon> not fun
[02:06] <LaserJock> shawarma: I had no need for a source distro
[02:06] <LaserJock> bad as it may seem, Ubuntu is like binary Gentoo for me ;-)
[02:07] <shawarma> LaserJock: Someone told me that you don't *have* to compile everything yourself under Gentoo.
[02:07] <imbrandon> shawarma, no you dopnt have to you can use grp packages if you want stuff thats months out of date
[02:07] <LaserJock> yeah
[02:07] <imbrandon> maybe more
[02:08] <imbrandon> the kde grp packages are still 3.4 last i looked
[02:08] <imbrandon> etc
[02:08] <LaserJock> I was never into Gentoo for the performance, I never could tell much of a difference
[02:08] <LaserJock> I just liked having all programs I use
[02:09] <LaserJock> and I liked the forum community ;-)
[02:10] <imbrandon> food time, bbaib
[02:11] <pygi> sharms: slack rocks
[02:11] <shawarma> I've never been too much of a forum person.
[02:11] <pygi> sharms: I used it since '95
[02:12] <shawarma> win 1
[02:12] <shawarma> grrr..
[02:12] <shawarma> Oh, dear. It's 2 AM again. I should go to bed.
[02:13] <shawarma> g'night, all!
[02:14] <imbrandon> gnight
[02:14] <LaserJock> cya shawarma
[02:24] <LaserJock> pygi: any particular feature that makes slack rock?
[02:24] <pygi> LaserJock: it those days, ofcourse :)
[02:26] <LaserJock> I always avoided it because I didn't see any real package mangement
[02:28] <pygi> ah
[02:29] <Amaranth> there is no dependency management
[02:30] <Amaranth> i don't know if what they have qualifies as package management either
[02:30] <pygi> :P
[02:31] <pygi> slack packages actually allow dependencies
[02:31] <pygi> and you can take advantage of them using swaret or slapt-get
[02:31] <pygi> but nevermind, we're ubuntu here :)
[02:33] <LaserJock> hmm
[02:35] <pygi> ok, sleep time
[02:35] <pygi> 2:36 AM
[02:35] <pygi> will sleep two hours again
[02:35] <LaserJock> yikes
[02:35] <pygi> night
[02:36] <crimsun> LaserJock: sorry, just remembered an earlier question. Try Thinking in C++, 2nd Ed., here: http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/docs/books/eckel/
[02:38] <LaserJock> crimsun: cool, thanks
[02:39] <LaserJock> I'm trying to dive into an established project
[02:39] <LaserJock> and trying to make head or tails of it
[02:39] <imbrandon> heya crimsun
[02:39] <crimsun> hi imbrandon
[02:42] <imbrandon> hrm anyone know the issue why faad2 in is multiverse and not universe, it dosent look to be a dependacy issue, so i'm guessing its with the program/lib its self
[02:42] <LaserJock> hmm, I thought it had non-free stuff
[02:43] <imbrandon> probably but i'm trying to see what exactly, becosue its has aac support and aac is iirc open source etc
[02:43] <imbrandon> thinking maybe i can do a dfsg version of it
[02:43] <imbrandon> *hopes*
[02:43] <imbrandon> if its just a small part of it thats not dfsg etc
[02:45] <crimsun> imbrandon: it's patent-encumbered and we can't even legally distribute modified source.
[02:45] <slomo> imbrandon: patent reasons
[02:45] <imbrandon> faad2 or aac ?
[02:45] <slomo> aac
[02:45] <slomo> patented like all the mpeg stuff
[02:45] <imbrandon> hrm
[02:46] <imbrandon> iirc aac was open, i guess i was wrong /me *thinks*
[02:46] <slomo> it's "open" as in the specs are open, etc
[02:46] <slomo> but still the techniques (?) are patented
[02:47] <crimsun> gah, xmms is still in main?
[02:47] <ajmitch> I have no idea why
[02:47] <imbrandon> i would hope not heh
[02:47] <ajmitch>       xmms | 1.2.10+cvs20060429-1ubuntu2 | http://apt-proxy edgy/main Packages
[02:47] <ajmitch> you'd think not, by now..
[02:47] <slomo> probably the last thing in main that can decode mp3 ;)
[02:48] <crimsun> (and libmad)
[02:48] <slomo> oh mad is still there too...
[02:48] <imbrandon> hehe amarok can with 2 clicks now ;) /me is happy about that one
[02:49] <imbrandon> crap flac isnt free either ? man i need to study up some more
[02:49] <slomo> hmm, k3b, akode and libtunepimp are keeping it in main... so only because of kde stuff ;)
[02:49] <crimsun> flac is unencumbered last I checked
[02:49] <slomo> there were rumours that something in flac is patented but nobody could proove it
[02:50] <imbrandon> hum i wonder why its in extra-codecs then
[02:50] <imbrandon> i'm trying to do a little background work for this spec and get a clear ".plan" for the kde side for mtv
[02:50] <imbrandon> ( and just generaly becouse its needed )
[02:51] <imbrandon> but codecs are a mess it seems , well mostly
[02:51] <slomo> imbrandon: in extracodecs i only have ffmpeg, faad and mad
[02:51] <crimsun> not sure where you're getting flac in extracodecs
[02:51] <crimsun> libxine1: /usr/lib/xine/plugins/1.1.2/xineplug_flac.so
[02:51] <imbrandon> slomo, well xine engine ( specificly amarok-xine ) wont play a *.flac without libxine-extracodecs
[02:52] <imbrandon> hrm
[02:52] <slomo> interesting
[02:52] <slomo> any idea why?
[02:52] <imbrandon> no , thats what i'm trying to find out now
[02:52] <slomo> ok :)
[02:52] <imbrandon> seems it should
[02:53] <imbrandon> anyone else here wanna confirm what i just said ?
[02:53] <slomo> probably another case of xine not happy with the splitted situation...
[02:53] <imbrandon> e.g try to play a flac without libxine-extracodecs
[02:53] <imbrandon> to make sure i'm not a corner case somehow and it is truely a problem
[02:54] <imbrandon> before i dig way into it
[02:54] <slomo> one moment
[02:55] <slomo> ok, confirmed here...
[02:55] <imbrandon> kk good, well not good but makin sure
[02:55] <imbrandon> heh
[02:56] <imbrandon> why couldent i notice these things a few weeks ago before RC
[02:57] <slomo> maybe because it uses ffmpeg for decoding of flac
[03:04] <imbrandon> possibly
[03:22] <LaserJock> hmm, what's do you get with an avahi-enabled gaim?
[03:26] <Lathiat> LaserJock: ability to talk on the network with other people
[03:26] <Lathiat> e.g. they come up in your contact list etc
[03:26] <DarkMageZ> :o is edgy's gaim built with this?
[03:27] <LaserJock> on the local network?
[03:27] <LaserJock> how annoying ;-)
[03:28] <Lathiat> DarkMageZ: no
[03:28] <LaserJock> DarkMageZ: see the ubuntu-devel mailing list
[03:29] <Burgundavia> LaserJock: for edgy+1, telepathy should solve this issue
[03:30] <LaserJock> yeah, yeah, bunch of annoying stuff. I can imagine lots of people will love it though ;-)
[03:31] <LaserJock> almost as bad as having to wade through everybodies printer to get to the one I want
[03:31] <Burgundavia> adhock networking is the future
[03:32] <LaserJock> I suppose, doesn't mean I have to like it :-)
[03:33] <LaserJock> we have maybe 100 computers on our network
[03:34] <LaserJock> I dislike having to wade around through everybodies service brodcasting
[03:35] <DarkMageZ> hmm, has to be enabled @ configure time? does it end up as a plugin? or an always enabled feature...
[03:37] <Burgundavia> LaserJock: if you are at work, you should have an admin to make a decision on it
[03:38] <Burgundavia> DarkMageZ: currently avahi is turned off by deafult
[03:38] <Burgundavia> it is likely to be on by default in edgy+!
[04:04] <imbrandon> anyone ever used a curses based gnutella client?
[04:05] <imbrandon> i found a few on google but i mean experice if they are good/bad/ugly
[04:24] <LaserJock> hi Fujitsu
[04:24] <Fujitsu> Hey LaserJock.
[04:25] <imbrandon> heya Fujitsu
[04:25] <LaserJock> we need to get that gcl/maxima fix in -updates or I'm going to go nuts with bug reports
[04:25] <Fujitsu> Hi imbrandon.
[04:25] <Fujitsu> LaserJock, true... But the proper procedure never got decided on...
[04:25] <LaserJock> yeah
[04:26] <LaserJock> do we need another MOTU meeting to finalize the Stable Release Updates procedure?
[04:29] <Fujitsu> Or do we just want to attempt to get gcl/maxima fixed for the moment as described on MOTU/Processes/SRU? That process is workable, though not exactly finalised..
[04:31] <LaserJock> yeah, maybe we should use it as a test case
[04:31] <LaserJock> I think the 2 weeks in -proposed is a little odd
[04:31] <Fujitsu> That's more than most main stuff gets, isn't it?
[04:33] <LaserJock> yes
[04:33] <LaserJock> Main gets 1 week
[04:34] <LaserJock> sweet! I just found 3 Dapper CDs
[04:34] <LaserJock> I thought I left them in Mountain View
[04:37] <Fujitsu> When were you there?
[04:37] <LaserJock> in August
[04:37] <LaserJock> for Ubucon
[04:37] <Fujitsu> Ah.
[04:37] <LaserJock> kinda gave 2 presentations
[04:38] <Fujitsu> It really makes things rather difficult :S
[04:38] <LaserJock> yeah, maybe just start the process
[04:38] <Toadstool> hey Fujitsu
[04:38] <Fujitsu> Hi Toadstool.
[04:39] <Fujitsu> First up, gcl needs that patch.
[04:39] <Fujitsu> Now, can I remember where it is...
[04:41] <LaserJock> hmm
[04:41] <LaserJock> I guess the first question is if it is a "high profile" update
[04:42] <Fujitsu> Yes. It certainly is.
[04:43] <LaserJock> think so?
[04:43] <LaserJock> personally I wouldn't think it would be
[04:43] <Kyral> IBM Pollyanna Principle:
[04:43] <Kyral>         Machines should work.  People should think.
[04:43] <imbrandon> considering i dont even know what it is i wouldnet be
[04:43] <LaserJock> I guess that's why we need a policy
[04:44] <LaserJock> and that's why the whole "high profile" thing is going to be troublesome
[04:45] <LaserJock> it's high profile in the sense that it's a pretty severe bug
[04:45] <Fujitsu> LaserJock, why wouldn't it be? We have a lot of people complaining, and it completely breaks that package. In main/restricted, severe regressions come under that category.
[04:45] <Fujitsu> This is a regression.
[04:45] <LaserJock> because "high profile" mean high up on the popcon stats to me
[04:46] <Toadstool> as long as the package is unusable, I'd say that it is a valid candidate for a SRU
[04:46] <LaserJock> hmm, ok well maybe I'm just thinking of this wrong
[04:46] <Fujitsu> LaserJock, high profile bug, not package. As in, it's not some obscure bug that somebody might run into once every 1,000,000 tries.
[04:47] <LaserJock> I was reading "high profile" as package
[04:47] <LaserJock> i.e. breaking Xorg is a big no no
[04:47] <Fujitsu> `Just high-profile bug fixes'
[04:47] <LaserJock> I still don't see it as a high-profile bug fix in the larger scheme of things
[04:48] <Fujitsu> Not in the scheme of things, no.
[04:48] <LaserJock> but then this is the problem with this SRU procedure
[04:48] <Fujitsu> Yeah, you can't have a proper, objective, quantitative assessment of the high-profileness of a bug fix.
[04:49] <LaserJock> ok, but I guess maybe this is what I'm getting hung up on
[04:49] <LaserJock> what happens to non-"high profile" bug fixes?
[04:50] <Fujitsu> They get their bugs spammed eternally, like #43150?
[04:50] <Toadstool> bug 43150
[04:50] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 43150 in gcl "wxmaxima fails with error, can't connect to maxima" [Undecided,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/43150
[04:50] <Toadstool> haha
[04:50] <LaserJock> I was thinking it would imply we could just upload the update
[04:51] <LaserJock> I guess that is an important point
[04:51] <Fujitsu> Oh, you think like that.
[04:52] <Fujitsu> I took it to mean that little tiny bugs won't be fixed at all, only big ones will.
[04:52] <LaserJock> to me SRU was going to be used to make sure we don't break something important
[04:52] <Fujitsu> But you've taken it to mean that little ones are exempt from the procedure?
[04:52] <LaserJock> yes
[04:53] <Fujitsu> We need the almight dholbach :(
[04:53] <Fujitsu> *almighty
[04:53] <LaserJock> I figured it was trivial to decide if it goes in -updates or not, the question was "how" it got to -updates and how much testing needed to be done
[04:54] <LaserJock> if it is how you are thinking then it is indeed a "high profile" bug of course :-)
[04:54] <Fujitsu> Yes, we were thinking of it in completely different meanings...
[04:54] <Fujitsu> By your definition, it's not a high profile bug.
[04:54] <Fujitsu> It cannot break anything further than it is now.
[04:54] <Fujitsu> It's already ultimately broken, so it can't get any worse.
[04:56] <LaserJock> but actually your reading makes more sense, as it is called StableReleaseUpdates and not HighRiskStableReleaseUpdates ;-)
[04:56] <Toadstool> what about: package not usable/uninstallable -> eligible for a SRU -> need debdiff, diffstat, buildlog, approval by motu-sru team -> fix uploaded to -proposed -> we ask people to test it thoroughly -> if no more complaints about the bug -> -updates ?
[04:57] <LaserJock> that's still a lot of "stuff" to go through
[04:57] <Toadstool> well, it's a stable release ;)
[04:57] <LaserJock> since right now it's just  motu checks patch/fix -> motu uploads
[04:59] <Fujitsu> This fix is minor, and has no potential to break things. Toadstool's sequence there really is overkill.
[05:00] <Fujitsu> main stuff doesn't go through many things like that.
[05:00] <Fujitsu> Just debdiff, sometimes straight to -updates, sometimes to -proposed then tested.
[05:00] <Toadstool> and then X.org breaks :p
[05:00] <Fujitsu> Er, yeah.
[05:00] <LaserJock> but we have no real X.org, it's Universe
[05:01] <Toadstool> yeah, true
[05:01] <Fujitsu> And universe != main.
[05:01] <LaserJock> I want to keep -updates quality high
[05:01] <Fujitsu> As do I.
[05:01] <LaserJock> I had to fix a -updates already
[05:01] <LaserJock> I'd rather avoid that
[05:01] <Fujitsu> It's very high at the moment, 'cause there's only one or two things in there :P
[05:03] <LaserJock> 2 weeks is too long I think
[05:03] <LaserJock> I'd rather go for an "ack" system
[05:04] <Fujitsu> Much like UVF at the moment?
[05:04] <LaserJock> yes
[05:04] <LaserJock> but maybe a much larger group (perhaps all of MOTU) that can ack
[05:05] <LaserJock> I realize that -updates isn't use a ton, but I hate putting more work on the same people
[05:07] <minghua> Speaking of stable updates, do any of you think dapper should have different policy than other stable releases?
[05:07] <LaserJock> probably not
[05:07] <minghua> I won't bother with stable updates for edgy once edgy+1 is released
[05:08] <minghua> but I still want to push some stable updates for dapper after edgy release
[05:08] <LaserJock> I can see how in theory there would be a difference, but in practice I don't think there will be
[05:08] <LaserJock> if a bug need fixing it would be nice to fix it in any release we find it
[05:09] <Fujitsu> Dapper is different, LaserJock.
[05:09] <Fujitsu> Dapper will be shipped through ShipIt for quite some time.
[05:09] <LaserJock> I don't see how it would be fore Universe
[05:09] <LaserJock> sure
[05:10] <LaserJock> but I think Edgy should get updates as well
[05:10] <LaserJock> especially as Edgy seems to be more "stable" for many people
[05:10] <minghua> I always feel the biggest burden of stable release updates is on the release team
[05:11] <minghua> preparing a update is relatively easy, but making sure it doesn't break anything else is hard
[05:11] <minghua> but I can see LaserJock's point
[05:11] <LaserJock> right, except the release team wants us to handle most of the work for Universe
[05:12] <minghua> If there is user interest and developer willing to work on the update, I suppose why not
[05:12] <minghua> the developer is responsible to fix stuff if he breaks stuff
[05:12] <LaserJock> Universe is Universe, we do what we can
[05:12] <minghua> really REALLY conservative users can always use only -security, not -updates
[05:13] <LaserJock> what SRU should do is provide guidance and a process wherby we can have as high of quality updates as we can
[05:13] <minghua> acutually that's probably what I am going to do if I run a stable release
[05:14] <LaserJock> the problem is the testing, I think
[05:14] <LaserJock> how to get an update to a decent amount of people to test before it goes to -update
[05:15] <LaserJock> I fixed an -update upload that didn't install because a dep was missed
[05:15] <LaserJock> mearly installing the .deb before you upload would help :-)
[05:16] <Fujitsu> I've tested this upload on a few machines, but still...
[05:17] <LaserJock> I mean, you honestly could just upload the bugger I guess
[05:18] <LaserJock> I'm disliking this limbo
[05:19] <Fujitsu> Yes, it's been a couple of weeks...
[05:19] <LaserJock> but running by dholbach or motu-uvf wouldn't hurt
[05:19] <Fujitsu> I'll certainly run it by dholbach.
[05:21] <LaserJock> it would be good to get a list of dapper apps that are completely broken (won't install or segfault on startup, etc.)
[05:21] <LaserJock> I have no idea how one would do that though
[05:22] <Fujitsu> I could probably whip something up to check for things that don't install...
[05:22] <LaserJock> don't install would be a good start
[05:23] <LaserJock> I could do some searching through Malone
[05:23] <LaserJock> but I'm not sure if that would be productive
[05:23] <LaserJock> this a downside of team maintainace on this scale
[05:23] <Fujitsu> Search in Malone? You can't use those two in one sentence, I don't think
[05:24] <LaserJock> heh
[05:24] <minghua> searching though Malone is never productive for whatever reason IMHO :-P
[05:25] <LaserJock> the problem is
[05:25] <Fujitsu> You're not routing my IPs to here, you evil evil things.
[05:25] <Fujitsu> Is...?
[05:25] <LaserJock> we don't know most of our packages well enough to just know
[05:26] <LaserJock> and we have to wait until bugs reports come in
[05:26] <Fujitsu> This is where we have problems, yes.
[05:26] <LaserJock> which much of the time means waiting until after the release
[05:26] <Fujitsu> That's where Debian's maintainership is a good idea.
[05:26] <minghua> the other side of the same problem is we simply don't have enough users of the development branch, compared to debian
[05:27] <LaserJock> right
[05:27] <LaserJock> so we need to do more general testing before a release
[05:27] <minghua> I can easily find people to test stuff on debian testing or unstable for my input method packages
[05:27] <minghua> for ubuntu, very very hard
[05:27] <Toadstool> we could try to piuparts all Dapper's universe for a start...
[05:27] <LaserJock> maybe if we did a piuparts
[05:27] <LaserJock> hehe
[05:27] <Toadstool> :)
[05:28] <minghua> yeah, I like piuparts too
[05:28] <LaserJock> maybe we could do a piuparts audit of Universe for Dapper and Edgy
[05:28] <Toadstool> yup
[05:28] <LaserJock> I wonder how long that would take
[05:29] <Fujitsu> Quite a long time.
[05:29] <LaserJock> it would be nice if we could break Universe into logical chunks for these kinds of task
[05:29] <LaserJock> s
[05:29] <LaserJock> I suppose alphabetically would work
[05:30] <Fujitsu> Although, for that sort of thing, a few chroots running simultaneously doing that on one machine would work fine. Throw in several machines, and it should be fairly quickly.
[05:30] <Fujitsu> LaserJock, yes, that's really the only way.
[05:30] <minghua> it needs a big local archive, and a lot of cpu powers
[05:30] <minghua> not an easy thing to set up
[05:30] <Fujitsu> minghua, installing a package doesn't need much CPU powe.
[05:30] <Fujitsu> *power
[05:30] <Fujitsu> Especially if not much is installed.
[05:31] <Fujitsu> Most packages require very little post-processing, remember.
[05:31] <minghua> well, the way I understand piuparts, it installs and removes every package in a clean chroot
[05:31] <minghua> which probably means that you install and remove X for every GNOME and KDE package
[05:31] <LaserJock> yeah, it'd almost be like running pbuilder on Universe ;-)
[05:31] <minghua> and that's a lot of CPU power to me
[05:32] <Fujitsu> minghua, a good point, yes.
[05:32] <LaserJock> but if you could just set it going and after a few days come back ...
[05:34] <LaserJock> ok, let me add this to my MotuManagment page
[05:34] <Fujitsu> Where is that located?
[05:34] <LaserJock> perhaps a general motu-qa team that are willing to help with these sorts of things
[05:34] <LaserJock> wiki.ubuntu.com/JordanMantha/MotuManagment
[05:35] <LaserJock> heh, of course if I could spell :/
[05:35] <LaserJock> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JordanMantha/MotuManagement
[05:36] <Fujitsu> Heh.
[05:38] <LaserJock> hehe
[05:38] <LaserJock> I might ask him at Mountain View
[05:39] <imbrandon> LaserJock, yea me too and i was going to maybe spec something too , kinda make it offical so we can auth against LP for the MOTU team etc
[05:39] <imbrandon> infact i was just writing some notes in kwrite about it earlier
[05:40] <LaserJock> yeah, I'm not sure what all to do
[05:40] <LaserJock> from Canonical's prespective we are "untrusted"
[05:40] <LaserJock> so they don't want to give us access to the inside machines
[05:40] <LaserJock> that's one of  the reasons we didn't get our own archive admin teams
[05:41] <imbrandon> right , but remote auth should be possible, kinda like how we do some of the webpages
[05:41] <LaserJock> yeah
[05:41] <LaserJock> at least having a few build/test machines would be nice
[05:42] <imbrandon> like i ahve access to some of the webpages and db's like art.u.c and such but its not LP based and those machines areint in the "real" dc
[05:42] <imbrandon> they are but they are on a diff subnet dmz etc
[05:42] <imbrandon> i'm thinking we could probably set something like that up
[05:42] <imbrandon> where its "sponsored" by cacnonical but not dirrect access to the dc computers
[05:43] <LaserJock> yeah
[05:43] <imbrandon> err that came out wrong but you see my idea
[05:43] <LaserJock> imbrandon: are you coming to Mountain View?
[05:43] <imbrandon> whereas some websites are only avail to like newzum becouse they are on the dc computers
[05:43] <imbrandon> LaserJock, yea
[05:44] <LaserJock> we need a list of MOTUs who will be in attendence
[05:44] <LaserJock> I didn't think Paris had too much MOTU attendence
[05:44] <imbrandon> isnt there an "attendies" page >
[05:44] <Hobbsee> true that
[05:44] <LaserJock> probably
[05:45] <imbrandon> one sec
[05:45] <Fujitsu> I'm not going, only 54 more to check.
[05:45] <LaserJock> it'd be nice to have some MOTU discussion
[05:45] <LaserJock> we had EasierMOTUing in paris which was fun
[05:46] <imbrandon> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperSummitMountainView/Attendees
[05:46] <LaserJock> but I think we might need some MOTU process discussions
[05:46] <imbrandon> ^^ i'm listed ;)
[05:46] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: 54 more what?
[05:46] <Fujitsu> LaserJock, there are 55 MOTUs, and I'm not going, so you need to check if the other 54 are going to UDS :P
[05:46] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: 53.  MOTU's to check
[05:47] <Fujitsu> There shouldn't have been an apostrophe there!
[05:47] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i dont go to school anymore.  my grammar is allowed to be slightly dodgy now
[05:47] <LaserJock> well, about 50 actually
[05:47] <Fujitsu> LaserJock, true...
[05:48] <Fujitsu> And quite a number of members of ubuntu-dev I haven't ever seen.
[05:48] <LaserJock> yes
[05:48] <LaserJock> imbrandon: yes you are darn it
[05:48] <imbrandon> LaserJock, yes i am in heart
[05:48] <Fujitsu> imbrandon, you're a super-MOTU.
[05:48] <LaserJock> yep
[05:48] <imbrandon> heh
[05:49] <LaserJock> we have levels of MOTUs
[05:49] <LaserJock> super-MOTUs
[05:49] <LaserJock> uber-MOTUs
[05:49] <LaserJock> diety-MOTUs
[05:49] <imbrandon> motu-aholic's ?
[05:49] <Fujitsu> And me, the poor little peasant-MOTU :P
[05:49] <LaserJock> heh, well the get to sit in the corner
[05:49] <LaserJock> hmm, peasant-MOTU
[05:50] <LaserJock> that puts Monty Python on the brain ;-)
[05:50] <Fujitsu> Heheh.
[05:50] <Hobbsee> imbrandon's just better than all of us.
[05:50] <imbrandon> LaserJock, yea but once i get the init spec for the "farm" done up , i'll poke you with the url ( ~24 hours ) and you can add/modify it
[05:50] <imbrandon> Hobbsee, nooooooooooooooooo
[05:50] <Fujitsu> \o/ imbrandon.
[05:51] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: hmmm?
[05:51] <imbrandon> but i think the "farm" is great idea, alot of intrest has been shown, it just hasent ben acted on alot , well i started it kinda but i have limited resources
[05:51] <imbrandon> ;)
[05:51] <minghua> does peasant-MOTU has any connection with build farm? :-)
[05:51] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: start utilising the money tree.
[05:51] <imbrandon> Hobbsee, heh
[05:52] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: but you *will* have to make sure everyone is using debsign -r
[05:52] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee, Mark, you mean? :P
[05:52] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: whichever
[05:52] <Fujitsu> And, yeah. Anything else is just silly.
[05:52] <imbrandon> Hobbsee, yes thats in the spec
[05:52] <Hobbsee> oh good ;P
[05:53] <Fujitsu> What do people here think of Seveas' software channel spec?
[05:53] <imbrandon> Hobbsee, i'm not in favor of everyone and their brother putting .gnupg keys on a build farm, its ment for builds and testing , not making redistributable debs , so really there is no reason to sign it as the source can be uploaded from a local machine once its "fixed"
[05:53] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, i havent had a chance to read it
[05:54] <LaserJock> debsign -r?
[05:54] <imbrandon> Hobbsee, but yea if it IS to be signed debsign is definately the way to go
[05:54] <Fujitsu> LaserJock, signs .changes over SSH.
[05:54] <imbrandon> LaserJock, a way of signing a deb on a remote machine without putting your secret key remotely
[05:55] <LaserJock> oh nifty
[05:55] <imbrandon> like the way Fujitsu and Hobbsee sign stuff on my build machine without putting a gnupg key on there
[05:55] <imbrandon> more secure
[05:55] <imbrandon> but anyhow yea thats part of the "security" section of the spec
[05:56] <Hobbsee> Hi Sarah
[05:56] <Hobbsee> Writing this on Ubuntu/Firefox system at the airport - they have free internet kiosks here.  But the one around the corner is spattered with all the crashy-type messages you get  :(
[05:56] <Hobbsee> *NICE*
[05:56] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: well...true that.  although some people's upload speeds are very slow
[05:57] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: indeed
[05:57] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: havent seen it either.  i should, though
[05:57] <imbrandon> Hobbsee, true, it will all get worked out via the spec and bof's in mtv i'm sure
[05:57] <Hobbsee> nice
[05:57] <Hobbsee> just tell us all non-attending MOTUs waht you decide :P
[05:57] <LaserJock> hmm, the  SoftwareChannels spec is interesting
[05:57] <imbrandon> and to be honest if i can get some contract work to help me pay for it even if canonical dosent sponsor it I will
[05:58] <imbrandon> anyone got any ? heheh
[05:58] <Fujitsu> LaserJock, it'll be interesting to see what comes of it, as it is a very big change.
[05:58] <LaserJock> well, it could be fairly trivial I think
[05:58] <LaserJock> for a basic implementation of some of the features
[05:59] <Fujitsu> Trivial yes, but also a big change.
[05:59] <LaserJock> having .deb packages install sources.list files to /etc/apt/sources.d/
[05:59] <imbrandon> has anyone checked if the hotel we are at in mtv has wifi / broadband  ?
[05:59] <Fujitsu> A very very good idea, but it diverges from Debian in a potentially nasty way.
[05:59] <LaserJock> hehe
[05:59] <LaserJock> all of Mountain View has wifi
[05:59] <LaserJock> Google did it
[05:59] <imbrandon> nice
[06:00] <LaserJock> although we aren't techincally staying in Moutain View I don't think :/
[06:00] <LaserJock> hmm
[06:02] <imbrandon> LaserJock, yea i'm wondering how we're gonna fit all this into a weeks time
[06:02] <imbrandon> seems alot more this time than paris
[06:02] <LaserJock> we aren't :-)
[06:02] <LaserJock> we didn't get to quite a few of the specs in Paris
[06:02] <imbrandon> i noticed alot of "outsiders" are comming this time too from intel and google
[06:02] <LaserJock> yes
[06:03] <LaserJock> I think Mark wanted to call in the experts :-)
[06:03] <imbrandon> one thing i dident like to see but it will work out i think is some people are only there for the forums
[06:03] <imbrandon> i thought it was more a technical week but .....
[06:03] <imbrandon> well i'll shush now
[06:04] <LaserJock> well it is
[06:04] <LaserJock> we had it in Paris too
[06:04] <LaserJock> it's an attempt to keep the forums from imploding, IMO
[06:04] <imbrandon> lol
[06:04] <jldugger> maybe it should implode ;)
[06:05] <imbrandon> i have been chastizing people on LP and the mail list for linking to the foruim about a topic and not giving a summary, if i wanted to read the forums i would
[06:05] <LaserJock> well, they almost died around that time
[06:05] <imbrandon> gah, nvm i'm gonna get OT here
[06:05] <imbrandon> heya jldugger
[06:05] <jldugger> hey
[06:06] <LaserJock> well, I was in on some of the BOFs with the forum guy
[06:06] <LaserJock> there was one especially interesting one where we discussed LP's support tracker
[06:06] <imbrandon> jldugger, dude someone thats gonna be at ITEC needs to come pick those ubuntu cd's from my house, i keep mailing the list and telling them in the irc room but no one listens
[06:06] <jldugger> on the other hand, you don't want a gentoo-wiki type situation
[06:06] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: yeah, but hopefully that whole thing will get better
[06:06] <jldugger> imbrandon, im two hours away from KC
[06:06] <imbrandon> jldugger, crap thats right
[06:07] <jldugger> imbrandon, my participation in #kclug is like auxiliery member ;)
[06:07] <imbrandon> they are gonna wait till the last minute and expect me to be there with the cd's and i have told them for WEEKS to come get them
[06:07] <imbrandon> that i couldent make ITEC
[06:07] <jldugger> put it on the ML
[06:07] <imbrandon> so i have 500 ubuntu/kubuntu cd's sitting here
[06:07] <jldugger> make up an excuse to get someone to pick em up early ;)
[06:08] <jldugger> jesus
[06:08] <imbrandon> jldugger, i did about 6 times litterly
[06:08] <imbrandon> no one responded
[06:08] <jldugger> personally, i think its wierd for kclug to attend a trade show as a vendor
[06:09] <imbrandon> me too, but i said i would get the cd's and did
[06:09] <imbrandon> but now its like ummm common guys get it togather
[06:10] <jldugger> imbrandon, you put something in motion last night reguarding wacom-tools -- was there anything i needed to look at today?
[06:10] <imbrandon> jldugger, ahh right, i totaly forgot, give me a sec
[06:12] <jldugger> reguarding the forums stuff, gentoo has a somewhat similar situation -- gentoo-wiki.org is owned and operated outside the gentoo project, and apparently its the cause of a lot of users fowling their systems up
[06:14] <imbrandon> jldugger, well the forums are run by us , its just honestly fragmented community
[06:14] <imbrandon> there are those that use LP/IRC/MailingList and those that use the Forums, with only a few crossovers
[06:14] <jldugger> i dont really use the mailing list
[06:16] <jldugger> but i can see why the forums are popular with a certain subset.
[06:40] <LaserJock> imbrandon: I don't know if I'd exactly say the forums are run by us
[06:40] <LaserJock> ;-)
[06:42] <imbrandon> well run by the "official" community
[06:43] <imbrandon> i guess
[06:43] <LaserJock> I wouldn't even say that
[06:43] <LaserJock> it's hosted on canonical machines, that's pretty close to the extent of it
[06:43] <LaserJock> it's getting a little better though I think
[06:44] <zakame> hi all
[06:45] <LaserJock> hi zakame
[06:45] <micahcowan> What's up with REVU being down?
[06:45] <crimsun> dist-upgrade to Dapper.
[06:45] <zakame> yo LaserJock
[06:46] <imbrandon> heya zakame
[06:46] <zakame> dist-upgrade
[06:47] <zakame> yo imbrandon
[06:48] <micahcowan> REVU (and all of tauware.de) seems to be unreachable for at least the past 24 hours...
[06:48] <micahcowan> Hm, except the wiki.
[06:49] <zakame> well tiber did need that update ;) right?
[06:50] <imbrandon> and since its a server it probably wont need it for anopther 5 years ;)
[06:50] <Toadstool> ok, started a piupart on the whole universe
[06:50] <minghua> I like some moves the forum recently did
[06:51] <zakame> Toadstool: setting it on fire? :)
[06:51] <Toadstool> hope I did not make any mistake 'cause it is going to take ages :)
[06:51] <zakame> minghua: ooh, what move?
[06:51] <minghua> but still don't like the forum enough to go there often, I suppose
[06:52] <minghua> zakame: like move the edgy sub-forum to support category, and completely nuke the development category
[06:52] <zakame> ah
[06:52] <jldugger> the only time people go the forums is when they have a problem ;)
[06:52] <micahcowan> Is anyone able to reach tiber? I'm hoping it might just be the route from my network... ge2-edge.mia.infolink.com reports no-route-to-host...
[06:53] <zakame> micahcowan: don't bother, it is indeed down
[06:53] <imbrandon> micahcowan, NO we said its is down right now
[06:53] <Toadstool> micahcowan: tiber did not survive the reboot after a kernel update
[06:53] <micahcowan> imbrandon, ah, I guess I didn't understand that from what was said, then.
[06:54] <Toadstool> hmm looks like my piupart thing is working... great! :)
[06:54] <micahcowan> If it's likely to be down for a bit, adjusting the topic might be helpful (first place I checked)
[06:55] <minghua> micahcowan has a point, if not that our topic is 3 or 4 characters from overflow...
[06:55] <minghua> s/if/if only/ ?
[06:55] <minghua> damn grammar
[08:12] <minghua> Hmm, dapper's pbuilder doesn't recognize edgy as a distribution name, bugger.
[08:13] <imbrandon> no you have yo install the edgy debootstarp for it to work
[08:13] <imbrandon> on dapper
[08:14] <imbrandon> elkbuntu, ps about the blog and surveys thing , i could have told you that hehe i get well over 2000 hits a day from planet.u.c ;)
[08:14] <imbrandon> ayhow gnight folks
[08:14] <elkbuntu> imbrandon, im not used to being seen ;)
[08:14] <minghua> imbrandon: I'll try dist-upgrade from a dapper chroot
[08:15] <imbrandon> ;)
[08:19] <minghua> good... no text editor whatsoever in a buildd chroot
[08:22] <imbrandon> vi
[08:24] <imbrandon> wow i guess s/2000/10000 http://federation.imbrandon.com/ss_stats1.png
[08:28] <zakame> hehe
[08:29] <minghua> imbrandon: no vi, no nano, not even ed
[08:31] <minghua> okay, sed to the rescue, dist-upgrade seems to be working well
[08:34] <imbrandon> minghua, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/26972/
[08:35] <imbrandon> vi is bootstraped in default
[08:35] <minghua> imbrandon: thanks, but as I've said, mine is dapper chroot, and I used --variant=buildd for bootstrap
[08:36] <minghua> I suspect yours is a general bootstrapped chroot
[08:37] <imbrandon> nope pbuilders use the buildd variant and here is a dapper one
[08:37] <imbrandon> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/26973/
[08:37] <imbrandon> same thing diffrent version
[08:38] <imbrandon> anyhow , off to sleep
[08:39] <Fujitsu> You use that theme!?
[08:40] <minghua> good night imbrandon
[08:41] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, i /made/ that theme ;)
[08:41] <imbrandon> lol
[08:41] <Fujitsu> Yuck.
[08:42] <imbrandon> just becosue i dont like their os dosent mean i dont like the way it looks or some things about it:0 but i've been over this 1000 times, and i'm tired ;)
[08:42] <imbrandon> thats the beuity of linux , choice heh
[08:42] <imbrandon> gah
[08:43] <imbrandon> see missspelling worse than normal
[09:12] <minghua> the upload is still to ftp://upload.ubuntu.com, right?
[09:13] <Q-FUNK> morning!
[09:13] <imbrandon> minghua, yes
[09:13] <minghua> imbrandon: thanks!  (and you should go to bed :-)
[09:13] <imbrandon> lol i know
[09:14] <imbrandon> getting revu-tools configured on my public"ish" build box
[09:14] <imbrandon> minghua, well we are in a freeze did you gat an OK ?
[09:14] <minghua> imbrandon: unmet dep fix
[09:14] <imbrandon> minghua, read the last sentance in the topic ;)
[09:14] <minghua> imbrandon: ajmitch gave a pre-approval
[09:15] <imbrandon> k
[09:15] <imbrandon> ;)
[09:15] <imbrandon> just makin sure
[09:15] <minghua> and ajmitch said upload _then_ ping anyway ;-)
[09:16] <imbrandon> wow that seems odd but ok
[09:16] <imbrandon> ;)
[09:18] <minghua> damn, forgot to use --distribution edgy
[09:23] <minghua> ajmitch: scim-uim 0.1.4-1build1 uploaded, fixing bug #65478, please approve, thanks
[09:23] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 65478 in scim-uim "[UNMETDEPS]  scim-uim has unmet dependencies" [Unknown,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65478
[09:56] <Fujitsu> Any DDs around?
[09:57] <lucas> depends on your question
[09:57] <Fujitsu> I've got a new soundconverter package.
[09:58] <Fujitsu> So I ideally need somebody to upload it.
[10:00] <siretart> Fujitsu: try in #debian-mentors ;)
[10:00] <Fujitsu> Pfft, that'd make sense.
[11:16] <siretart> reboot request for tiber sent. waiting for reply...
[11:36] <Tonio_> hi
[11:44] <shawarma> revu is back! Wheeee...
[12:29] <herzi> good morning dudes
[12:48] <shawarma> Have any of you guys ever been in Mountain View?
[01:01] <mnepton> shawarma: years ago, yes
[01:04] <siretart> okay. tiber is online again, but with 2.6.12 kernel, most probably because of bug #48184
[01:04] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 48184 in linux-source-2.6.15 "[regression]  Fails to detect ethernet card (VT6105 via-rhine)" [Medium,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/48184
[01:06] <shawarma> mnepton: Is it like an actual city where people live or is it like an industrial area of sorts?
[01:07] <shawarma> mnepton: I'm considering going despite not getting sponsored and I'm curious how much of a hassle it's going to be to get something to eat..
[01:08] <shawarma> mnepton: Hmm... although there's probably going to be a *lot* of pizza places in that kind of area..
[01:09] <shawarma> I just still remember that ridiculous small village near Paris where the last summit was held... Now *that* was a hassle.
[01:09] <Fujitsu> siretart, is it a commercially hosted machine?
[01:10] <siretart> Fujitsu: yes
[01:10] <Fujitsu> ServerPronto?
[01:11] <siretart> yes
[01:11] <Fujitsu> Yeah, that caused some big issues when a Dapper upgrade was performed on Mekong (the server behind about 5 LoCo teams).
[01:12] <siretart> Fujitsu: how did you solve the issue?
[01:12] <Fujitsu> siretart, still running .12.
[01:13] <siretart> fabolous :/
[01:13] <Fujitsu> Yeah.\
[01:14] <Fujitsu> Downtime of 3 or 4 days because communication between ServerPronto and the official contact person was terrible.
[01:15] <siretart> Fujitsu: then we are lucky, tiber was 'only' 2 days offline :)
[01:16] <Fujitsu> 4 days without my primary email address was... unpleasant :S
[01:16] <siretart> oh
[01:45] <sivang> morning
[01:46] <jsgotangco> hi!
[01:47] <sivang> hi jsgotangco , what's up?
[01:47] <jsgotangco> just finished dinner  heh
[02:05] <sivang> jsgotangco: what's on the plate for today? :)
[02:06] <jsgotangco> sivang: unfortunately its not kosher :/
[02:07] <jsgotangco> sivang: interesting spec though ;)
[02:07] <sivang> hehe
[02:07] <sivang> jsgotangco: :-)
[02:07] <sivang> the uninterrupted video playback
[02:07] <sivang> ?
[02:08] <jsgotangco> yeah
[02:08] <sivang> jsgotangco: I do wonder who decided that some foods are and some are not, or at least have the rationale behind it :-)
[02:08] <sivang> jsgotangco: should have had a spec for that
[02:08] <jsgotangco> its an real user case scenario
[02:08] <sivang> ah, indeed.
[02:09] <jsgotangco> on some branded laptops, they actually have special power management software for that
[02:09] <sivang> me and my gf use the machine to watch dvds, and I recently had to do a photo presentation of my trip to the UK
[02:09] <sivang> and g-p-m and IM got in the way, g-p-m decided the machine is idle and lowered the brightness,
[02:10] <sivang> i-m kept bugging us with stupid messages from family member that could have waited :)
[02:10] <sivang> etc..
[02:10] <sivang> so it is a real use case :)
[02:10] <jsgotangco> yeah if i remember it right on a toshiba windows laptop, the settings aren't that fancy and just disables stuff so it won't get in the way of dvd playback
[02:11] <jsgotangco> but can be done with a keyboard shortcut
[02:11] <sivang> also, imagine yourself sitting in a presentation in a hall, and suddenly some odd looking popups is asking you to reboot your machine, do you want your investors to see that? :) or your students?
[02:11] <sivang> jsgotangco: right, so we should aim at least for that
[02:11] <sivang> jsgotangco: see followup to t u on the ML
[02:12] <sivang> anyway, breakfast and sleep recovery now :)
[02:12] <jsgotangco> it seems dbus has been the magical hiway of anything lately
[02:14] <StevenK> sivang: I've had that happen with Windows.
[02:15] <StevenK> "Updates have been installed. I'm going to reboot in 5 minutes." You couldn't cancel it, you could only postpone it by another five minutes.
[02:29] <zakame> hi all!
[02:30] <highvoltage> hey zakame!!
[02:31] <sivang> StevenK: indeed, LOL
[02:34] <zakame> yo highvoltage !! =D
[02:34] <highvoltage> hehe :)
[02:34] <zakame> Hobbsee: what missed?
[02:35] <Hobbsee> zakame: i dont know.  if i did, i wouldnt be asking :P
[02:36] <highvoltage> Hobbsee: don't worry, there are no wild parties here while you are away
[02:36] <Hobbsee> awww...pity
[02:37] <zakame> highvoltage: there was one at my place some weeks ago, during my birthday :p
[02:38] <highvoltage> zakame: ah yes, when you turned hex(22)
[02:38] <zakame> yeah
[02:38] <highvoltage> i mean, 16 in hex :)
[02:39] <zakame> well actually it was more of my cousin's b-day bash, she's a day earlier than me, but a couple of years older
[02:46] <pirast> who do i have to subscribe if it's a reupload?
[02:46] <pirast> Hobbsee: hi.. i subscribed you to 2 bug reports.. it would be great if you could check & merge the debdiffs into ubuntu
[02:49] <Hobbsee> pirast: there's a group called ubuntu-universe-sponsors - subscribe them
[02:50] <pirast> hobbsee, okay, sorry for bugging :-)
[02:50] <Hobbsee> pirast: it's fine :)
[02:52] <pirast> hobbsee, shall i subscribe them to reupload bugs, too?
[02:53] <Hobbsee> pirast: yeah
[02:53] <Hobbsee> pirast: wait, what do you mean by reupload?  does it involve a debdiff?
[02:54] <pirast> hobbsee, no
[02:55] <pirast> it just has to be rebuilt
[02:55] <Hobbsee> pirast: got an example?
[02:55] <pirast> sure
[02:55] <pirast> bug 65463
[02:55] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 65463 in caudium "[REUPLOAD]  [UNMETDEPS]  caudium has unmet dependencies" [Undecided,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65463
[02:55] <pirast> someone said that when a package has to be rebuillt it is just reuploaded to the archive.
[02:56] <Hobbsee> pirast: oh yeah.  yes, that does
[02:57] <pirast> hobbsee, so i have to subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors?
[02:58] <Hobbsee> pirast: yep.  i'm doing caudium now.
[02:58] <Hobbsee> pirast: if you've just got rebuilds, poke me with the bug numbers in -bugs, and i'll upload them while i munch
[02:58] <pirast> hobbsee, k, thanks :-)
[03:00] <pirast> hobbsee, lol... i wrote "sarah is going to reupload the package".. sorry, im not a native english speaker :-)
[03:00] <pirast> its like saying the weather is going to be great :-P
[03:01] <StevenK> pirast: Careful. Hobbsee might rain on your uploads.
[03:01] <Hobbsee> it's fine
[03:02] <Hobbsee> seeing as debian's fixes multiple FTBFS
[03:02] <StevenK> Yay me.
[03:02] <pirast> stevenk, lol!
[03:02] <pirast> hobbsee, okay
[03:07] <asabil> hi all
[03:07] <asabil> anyone willing to make a .deb package for python-gtkglext ?
[03:08] <Hobbsee> !info python-gtkglext
[03:08] <ubotu> Package python-gtkglext does not exist in any distro I know
[03:09] <asabil> so ?
[03:09] <Hobbsee> no
[03:10] <Hobbsee> i just thought it was already ther
[03:10] <Hobbsee> e
[03:10] <asabil> so can I ask for one ?
[03:10] <Hobbsee> you can ask, i dont think anyone will do it
[03:10] <asabil> I tried to tweak the one provided by the glchess developper
[03:11] <asabil> :/
[03:32] <pirast> will we remove mozilla in edgy+1 like debian does?
[03:40] <sivang> how do I list all the binary packages coming out of a single source?
[03:40] <StevenK> grep ^Package debian/control ?
[03:40] <sivang> StevenK: and without getting the source? :)
[03:41] <Hobbsee> sivang: apt-cache showsrc foo
[03:41] <StevenK> Yeah, that.
[03:41] <sivang> right, thanks
[03:41] <Hobbsee> or apt-cache show foo | grep Binary
[03:41] <Hobbsee> if you prefer
[03:41] <sivang> i have a memory loss problem
[03:41] <sivang> ;-)
[03:41] <Hobbsee> :P
[03:48] <sivang> normally, when there are unmetdeps, how do we find out if a package has been replaced by another one and we need to change depends etc? I see dpkg not laways says which packages has been replaced by which
[03:49] <Hobbsee> sivang: either it says, or employ guesswork.  also checking debian helps with that
[03:49] <Hobbsee> i havent found a quicker way
[03:51] <sivang> Hobbsee: yes, just attempting to install on a sid chroot really helps
[03:51] <sivang> I thought if there is a better way :)
[03:51] <siretart> pirast: this hasn't been decided yet
[03:51] <Hobbsee> sivang: packages.debian.org :P
[03:53] <sivang> Hobbsee: the chroot is faster :)
[03:53] <Hobbsee> depends how fast the chroot is :P
[03:54] <sivang> better then my broken fingers searchign through p.d.o :-p
[03:54] <sivang> nice, debtags-edit seems to just require a rebuild
[04:01] <herzi> is it known that password recovery doesn't work on the revu site right now?
[04:15] <pirast> herzi, what does not work?
[04:16] <herzi> i get this line as the last one
[04:16] <herzi> Now paste the text below, and enter EOT<return>
[04:17] <pirast> ajmitch helped me when I had a similar issue...
[04:27] <pirast> herzi, just try to catch him later
[04:27] <ivoks> hi all
[04:28] <pirast> hi ivoks
[04:36] <PSUSI> how can you clean spam off a bug on launchpad?
[04:36] <azeem> PSUSI: try asking in #launchpad, maybe
[04:37] <PSUSI> heh, didn't realize it had its own channel
[04:46] <pirast> siviang, hi..
[04:47] <sivang> hi pirast
[04:47] <pirast> sivang, i parallally chatted with infinity about bug 2253 by chance..
[04:47] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 2253 in fpc "fpc needs bootstrapping on buildds" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/2253
[04:48] <sivang> I just chatted to slomo about this :)
[04:48] <pirast> sivang, great :-P
[04:48] <sivang> Adam told me some love needed to be put up into fpc on PPC, which would help him bootstrap
[04:48] <pirast> yeah.. :-(
[04:48] <sivang> I don't owe such an arch
[04:48] <pirast> i dont, either..
[04:49] <pirast> but the way that it is now it breaks more..
[04:49] <sivang> I just can't really understand nor did I Have the time to check why the user-he package depends on it, but well :-)
[04:50] <pirast> sivang, i had time: 63647
[04:50] <pirast> look at my first reply there
[04:50] <sivang> malone #63647
[04:50] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 63647 in user-he "[UNMETDEPS]  Edgy, user-he, Broken dependencies" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63647
[04:50] <pirast> at that post i didnt yet understand that fpc  needs debootstrapping
[04:52] <sivang> pirast: right, thanks for the bug
[04:52] <sivang> I see it now
[04:52] <sivang> well, they should have used another language :-p
[04:52] <sivang> not so exotic ones
[04:52] <pirast> yeah.. there is a huge bunch of packages blocked by this..
[04:52] <sivang> anyway, not an excuse, fpc shouldprobably be fixed for the good of the universe :)
[04:54] <pirast> sivang, so what shall we do?
[04:55] <pirast> ask infinity to bootstrap everything excepting powerpc?
[04:55] <sivang> I am not sure this can be done
[04:55] <sivang> or if it can, desired
[04:55] <sivang> slomo: you have an idea?
[04:56] <slomo> i see no reason why it shouldn't be possible
[04:56] <slomo> but no idea about the ppc problem
[04:56] <pirast> thanks
[04:56] <sivang> crimsun: could it be that mxv is not published in debian sid?
[04:57] <slomo> sivang: http://packages.qa.debian.org/m/mxv.html
[04:57] <giskard> hello slomo :)
[04:58] <slomo> hi giskard
[04:59] <sivang> hey giskard
[04:59] <sivang> slomo: thanks :)
[04:59] <giskard> hello sivang :)
[05:00] <sivang> slomo: where can I find the reason for the package being removed?
[05:00] <slomo> in the bugreport about the removal
[05:01] <pirast> sivang, so shall I ask infinity to bootstrap everything excepting powerpc?
[05:02] <zul> /win 13
[05:02] <sivang> pirast: already did
[05:02] <sivang> pirast: he will do it when he wakes up
[05:02] <sivang> he had to go to sleep now, at last
[05:02] <pirast> sivang, great.. thanks
[05:03] <sivang> pirast: no problem, its all fun.
[05:03] <pirast> sivang, yeah..
[05:06] <pirast> sivang, regarding your reply to bug 63647: you also have to sync user-he from debian because of the firefox dependency.. but as far as i know there were only changes made to the debian directory.
[05:06] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 63647 in user-he "[UNMETDEPS]  Edgy, user-he, Broken dependencies" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63647
[05:09] <sivang> pirast: for user-he or for -locale-he ?
[05:09] <sivang> pirast: (e.g. debian dir changes)
[05:10] <pirast> sivang, user-he
[05:11] <sivang> pirast: okay, so two syncs then
[05:11] <sivang> (we had no ubuntu changes anyways)
[05:11] <pirast> sivang, whats the other sync about?
[05:11] <sivang> does anybody know what happened to ivtools-interviews in edgy? did it got removed or someting?
[05:11] <sivang> pirast: sorry, I mean, one sync for moz-locale-he, and one for user-he
[05:12] <sivang> pirast: that what you meant right?
[05:13] <pirast> sivang, if you mean firefox-locale-he :-)
[05:13] <pirast> it does not have to be synced, the new debian package does not have it in it's build depends
[05:13] <sivang> pirast: yes
[05:14] <sivang> pirast: ah, even better then
[05:14] <sivang> pirast: so only user-he from debian, thanks
[05:14] <pirast> sivang, np and thanks, too :-)
[05:14] <sivang> pirast: :)
[06:19] <chantra_> hi, as anybody ran into troubles with /tmp directory lately?
[06:31] <visik7> hi
[06:31] <visik7> I've a package that genereate libs and binary
[06:31] <visik7> how can I handle the packaging ?
[06:37] <lotusleaf> "I have the power!"
[06:38] <pef> hello
[07:33] <newz2000> hello all, working with siretart I'm trying to diagnose kernel problems on the server 'tiber' where revu is located.
[07:33] <newz2000> I'll need to rebooot this server soon. Anyone in there? I'll wait about 15 min and then plan my reboot.
[07:34] <newz2000> Server will be down hopefully only about 10 min, but a second reboot may be needed, so wait for my word to go back in.
[07:39] <nixternal> 5 minutes down, 5 to go ;)
[07:39] <_MMA_> Hows it goin LaserJock?
[07:40] <LaserJock> oh, it's going
[07:40] <_MMA_> Did you talk to System76?
[07:40] <LaserJock> trying to figure out if I'm missing any meetings right now :-)
[07:40] <LaserJock> not yet, I think I'll do that today
[07:40] <newz2000> nixternal: I haven't rebooted yet. I'm still waiting for my 15 min warning to expire without objections.
[07:40] <nixternal> ahh
[07:40] <nixternal> hehe
[07:41] <nixternal> had to have some fun with it
[07:41] <LaserJock> imbrandon's gotten some more stuff on our build farm
[07:41] <LaserJock> what's going down?
[07:41] <_MMA_> Not too much.
[07:41] <newz2000> LaserJock: tiber server (where revu)
[07:42] <LaserJock> newz2000: ah, for the dapper upgrade?
[07:42] <newz2000> yes
[07:44] <newz2000> ok, tiber goes down in 5 min.
[07:46] <lotusleaf> timber, his arms wide
[07:46] <newz2000> and fingers crossed. ;D
[08:06] <newz2000> well, server didn't reboot on its own, so I'm opening a reboot ticket. For all of those holding their breath to get back into Tiber, have a nice sleep, because you'll pass out before it's back up.
[08:08] <ivoks> ?
[08:11] <pirast> does anyone have time to apply to debdiffs that add .desktop entries?
[08:16] <LaserJock> at this point in the release I don't think so
[08:20] <pirast> LaserJock, aren't patches still allowed?
[08:21] <LaserJock> they have to go through an exception process
[08:21] <LaserJock> and I don't think .desktop files are high enough priority to be accepted
[08:21] <pirast> LaserJock, every little patch also?
[08:21] <LaserJock> yes
[08:21] <pirast> argh.
[08:21] <LaserJock> we are in Release Candidate Freeze
[08:21] <LaserJock> yes
[08:22] <LaserJock> it was kinda sudden, I wasn't expecting it
[08:22] <zul> uh didnt you check the calendar?
[08:22] <jldugger> edgy certainly will feel shorter since dapper was delayed
[08:22] <pirast> LaserJock, when did it begin? i do not see it there: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyReleaseSchedule
[08:24] <LaserJock> zul: no, I did not expect Release Candidate Freeze to mean what it does for Edgy
[08:24] <LaserJock> zul: it hasn't in the past
[08:24] <zul> ah
[08:25] <LaserJock> pirast: it was announced on the mailing lists (ubuntu-devel-announce probably)
[08:25] <pirast> LaserJock, ok, i will subscribe there
[08:25] <pirast> to not miss further freezes
[08:25] <LaserJock> this is the most conservative release I've seen in terms of Freezes that I've seen so far
[08:39] <highvoltage> hey LaserJock
[08:39] <highvoltage> I saw your wiki subpage on the motu stuff today
[08:40] <pirast> in my debdiff's there are sometimes config.* entrys.. i think that they were caused by debuild.. how can i prevent them of being in my debdiffs?
[08:40] <LaserJock> highvoltage: ah, yeah
[08:40] <highvoltage> I've been learning some more packaging stuff so hopefully by the end of december I could be a motu too.
[08:40] <LaserJock> pirast: filterdiff
[08:41] <pirast> LaserJock: thanks again :-)
[08:42] <LaserJock> np
[08:46] <Sp4rKY> hi
[08:46] <Sp4rKY> does revu.tauware.de is down ?
[08:46] <Sp4rKY> hi raphink
[08:46] <Sp4rKY> i'm talking with one of the audacious dev
[08:47] <Sp4rKY> "cause i'd tried to package it
[08:47] <Sp4rKY> but i lost all my packaging work, so i hope it is on revu
[08:48] <bhale> revu is down for maintainence
[08:48] <Sp4rKY> ok
[08:52] <pirast> does ubuntu have an autosync to debian multimedia?
[08:52] <bhale> no.
[08:52] <pirast> bhale, k...
[08:52] <bhale> there are no autosyncs
[08:52] <bhale> since some weeks ago
[08:52] <bhale> months
[08:53] <pirast> bhale, I know that Edgy is freezed :-) But what is about Edgy+1? Will it have new packages from Debian Multimedia?
[08:53] <LaserJock> bhale: what's with the nick?
[08:53] <dholbach> good night
[08:53] <bhale> LaserJock: sigh
[08:53] <pirast> night
[08:53] <bhale> LaserJock: nothing is "with" it
[08:54] <zul> pirast: most likely
[08:54] <bhale> pirast: they could, but not auto
[08:54] <pirast> :-(
[08:54] <pirast> so i have to file sync requests when there are new versions in debian multimedia :-(
[08:55] <LaserJock> bhale: but what happened to tseng? :(
[08:55] <bhale> LaserJock: its gone
[08:56] <bhale> sorry
[08:56] <sivang> slomo: do you have a minute?
[08:56] <bhale> i dont know why everyone is taking it so hard
[08:56] <slomo> yes
[08:56] <LaserJock> well, we get used to it I suppose
[08:56] <sivang> bhale: not taking this hard, just got used to it :)
[08:56] <LaserJock> I just wondered, I've thought of changing mine too
[08:56] <bhale> sivang: rock
[08:56] <bhale> LaserJock: you should
[08:57] <bhale> its not as hard as you think
[08:57] <LaserJock> as it takes a while for people to relate my name to my nick
[08:57] <sivang> bhale is easier to pronounce :)
[08:57] <sivang> like "Hey *B* hale, whassup?"
[08:57] <sivang> it's groovier
[08:57] <sivang> slomo: anyways :)
[08:57] <sivang> slomo: I'm trying to fix fixedpoint (bin: python-fixed point)
[08:57] <bhale> sivan *G*
[08:58] <slomo> sivang: ok, what's the problem with it? :)
[08:58] <sivang> slomo: I dropped versioned dependency on python2.3-dev, building is fine,
[08:58] <sivang> slomo: still when I try to install it, there seem to be python2.3 dependnecies (unmet dep on 2.3)
[08:59] <sivang> slomo: I can't seem to find where the culprit lies, it's all subtvars dependencies anyways.
[08:59] <sivang> oh crap
[08:59] <sivang> Depends: python2.3
[08:59] <sivang> I am going blind :)
[09:00] <slomo> ok ;)
[09:00] <sivang> slomo: wait, it's not over yet, even if this is fixed to depend only on python or python2.4 as we have, there's still:
[09:00] <sivang> Conflicts: python2.3-fixedpoint
[09:00] <sivang> Replaces: python2.3-fixedpoint
[09:01] <sivang> should I just make those without version as per new python policy? also, in the changelog it says that it already conforms to it, and indeed has pycentral on its dependencies.
[09:01] <slomo> no, the conflicts/replaces are still necessary as it conflicts/replaces the old versions
[09:02] <sivang> ah okay, good to know
[09:02] <sivang> and should I touch this:
[09:02] <sivang> XB-Python-Version: 2.3
[09:02] <sivang> ?
[09:02] <sivang> oh hell
[09:03] <sivang> Description: A fixed point math object for python [dummy package] 
[09:03] <sivang>  This module provides a fixed point math object for python for monetary-
[09:03] <sivang>  applications. This module is not needed for python2.4 and later versions-
[09:03] <sivang>  because they provide a built-in decimal module.
[09:03] <sivang> :-D
[09:11] <LaserJock> darn, today apt want's to autoremove everything :/
[09:15] <pirast> night
[09:19] <sivang> where is her holbach when I need him? :p
[09:19] <bhale> herr
[09:20] <pirast> sivang, he went sleeping: <dholbach> good night
[09:20] <pirast> and i do now, too..
[09:20] <pirast> night
[09:20] <sivang> ah, oopss, hehe
[09:20] <sivang> good night to you folks, in absentia
[09:27] <geser> has someone here some time to upload three debdiffs fixing unmetdeps?
[10:14] <crimsun> geser: bug #s?
[10:15] <Bensin> Is this the right place to report a problem with installing a package in the universe repository?
[10:16] <crimsun> technically, no. Use https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+filebug
[10:16] <crimsun> In reality, you can mention it in addition to filing a bug.
[10:18] <Bensin> crimsun: OK. Thanks. I'll do that then. I thought launchpad was just for reporting problems with officially supported software.
[10:18] <crimsun> for all Ubuntu software.
[10:18] <ajmitch> morning
[10:18] <crimsun> (it's acceptable to tell us what's uninstallable, certainly)
[10:19] <crimsun> 'morning, ajmitch
[10:19] <Bensin> crimsun: have a problem with installing vmware-player.
[10:20] <Bensin> on a completely newly installed ubuntu.
[10:21] <sivang> ajmitch: morning
[10:21] <crimsun> sivang: sorry, just read backscroll for your question, though it seems Sebastian answered it
[10:22] <crimsun> (it's not in Sid, no. Is Edgy's broken?)
[10:30] <geser> crimsun: bug 65411, bug 65405, bug  65347 and bug 65350 (for lophyte)
[10:30] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 65411 in python-omniorb2 "[UNMETDEPS]  python-omniorb2 has unmet dependencies" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65411
[10:30] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 65405 in python-pyrss2gen "[UNMETDEPS]  python-pyrss2gen has unmet dependencies" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65405
[10:30] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 65347 in quixote "[UNMETDEPS]  quixote has unmet dependencies" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65347
[10:30] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 65350 in projectmanager.app "[UNMETDEPS]  projectmanager.app has unmet dependencies" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65350
[10:31] <geser> crimsun: could you also ACK bug 65417?
[10:31] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 65417 in mknfonts.tool "[UNMETDEPS] [Sync Request]  mknfonts.tool (0.5-6) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65417
[10:34] <crimsun> geser: it didn't really need an ack, but I gave one anyway (sivang is a member of ubuntu-dev)
[10:36] <mr_pouit> a little question : is it normal for a package to be in the "dependency wait" state, if the dependency already exists ?(https://launchpad.net/+builds/+build/248162)
[10:36] <ivoks> i'm shocked how beryl works :)
[10:38] <crimsun> mr_pouit: that's because idjc's debian/control:Build-Depends is incorrect. idjc's source is in universe, whereas liblame-dev is in multiverse. A universe source package cannot build-depend on a binary package in multiverse.
[10:39] <crimsun> (just as a main source package cannot build-depend on a binary package in universe or multiverse)
[10:39] <geser> crimsun: I was used to get an ACK after a sync request not before
[10:41] <mr_pouit> crimsun, ah, thanks for the explanation. So what should (can ?) I do ?
[10:41] <crimsun> mr_pouit: fix idjc's debian/control:Build-Depends and provide a debdiff.
[10:42] <ajmitch> ivoks: why so?
[10:43] <ivoks> ajmitch: it's perfect :)
[10:43] <ajmitch> hardly..
[10:44] <ivoks> well, on my 945 i see no problems
[10:44] <mr_pouit> crimsun, ok
[10:47] <geser> crimsun: if idjc build-depend on a multiverse package shouldn't it be moved into multiverse?
[10:50] <crimsun> geser: if one intends it to build with both liblame-dev and libfaad2-dev build-deps, yes
[10:51] <crimsun> alternately, of course, remove compile-time support for both mp3 and aac, and it can remain in universe
[11:01] <lophyte> geser: what were those bugs about?
[11:02] <lophyte> oh, nm
[11:02] <lophyte> projectmanager.app
[11:02] <mr_pouit> crimsun, ok, I removed  liblame-dev and libfaad2-dev, and it still buils in a pbuilder. The last question: should I add a changelog entry and increment the version number ?
[11:03] <crimsun> mr_pouit: yes
[11:03] <mr_pouit> ok
[11:03] <superm1> crimsun, would you be able to take a look at / upload bug 65790 by chance?
[11:03] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 65790 in mythtv "Mytharchive crashes due to buggy mythreplex utility" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65790
[11:03] <lophyte> superm1: no box today either, btw
[11:04] <superm1> lophyte, sounds like your friend is pulling a fast one on you.  "3 day shipping". ;)
[11:04] <lophyte> not that I know of.. they might've came while I was out
[11:04] <lophyte> indeed... *shrug*
[11:04] <lophyte> I'll have to go check the mail
[11:04] <superm1> :)
[11:04] <lophyte> they usually leave a slip if you're not home
[11:06] <geser> lophyte: crimsun is willing to upload some debdiffs
[11:06] <Q-FUNK> 'evening
[11:06] <lophyte> geser: ahh
[11:06] <geser> and I've also mentioned your debdiff
[11:07] <lophyte> cool
[11:08] <geser> don't forget to subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors to your debdiffs else they are sitting in LP until someone stumbles over them
[11:08] <lophyte> didn't I?
[11:09] <geser> not for the debdiff for projectmanager.app
[11:10] <lophyte> ack
[11:10] <lophyte> thought I did
[11:12] <geser> when the uploaded package is available from the repos you can set the bug from fix comitted to fix released
[11:24] <geser> crimsun: thanks for uploading
[11:26] <LaserJock> is 0xffff black?
[11:27] <ajmitch> white
[11:27] <ajmitch> well, #ffffff is white for html/css :)
[11:27] <ajmitch> btw, hi LaserJock & Fujitsu
[11:27] <sivang> hey ajmitch
[11:28] <Fujitsu> Hey ajmitch.
[11:28] <ajmitch> hello sivang
[11:28] <Fujitsu> Hi sivang, LaserJock.
[11:28] <LaserJock> hi Fujitsu
[11:28] <imbrandon> heya ajmitch LaserJock
[11:28] <sivang> ajmitch: re malone #65376 , I see that it's installable and importable now, I am going to close the bug / reject
[11:28] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 65376 in pygsm "[UNMETDEPS]  pygsm has unmet dependencies (and FTBFS)" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65376
[11:28] <Fujitsu> Hi imbrandon.
[11:28] <LaserJock> I'm actually hacking on a program today!
[11:28] <Fujitsu> Which, LaserJock?
[11:28] <sivang> LaserJock: wow! which one?
[11:28] <LaserJock> gchemutils
[11:28] <imbrandon> hehe LaserJock
[11:28] <Fujitsu> Ooh dear.
[11:28] <ajmitch> sivang: ok, why tell me? :)
[11:28] <Fujitsu> What are you doing to it?
[11:29] <LaserJock> I'm learning some C++ along the way
[11:29] <sivang> ajmitch: I've managed to insall it, and it seems to build fine :)
[11:29] <LaserJock> I'm adding a feature to gchemtable
[11:29] <ajmitch> sivang: does it not have the python2.3-dev builddep?
[11:30] <sivang> hmm, it does, doh, but how can it build then? :)
[11:30] <ajmitch> it can't - python2.3 is removed
[11:31] <imbrandon> heya Fujitsu
[11:32] <sivang> where do I find build logs?
[11:32] <Fujitsu> sivang, on LP?
[11:32] <LaserJock> wahoo! and I just broke it :-)
[11:32] <sivang> Fujitsu: what's the url? :)
[11:33] <Fujitsu> sivang, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/package/version
[11:33] <sivang> Fujitsu: thanks
[11:33] <Fujitsu> Then click on the architecture on the right.
[11:33] <Fujitsu> Oops.
[11:33] <Fujitsu> Left.
[11:34] <sivang> ajmitch: right, but how come there are no failed build logs?
[11:34] <sivang> ajmitch: (on LP)
[11:35] <Fujitsu> sivang, it hasn't been uploaded to Edgy.
[11:35] <Fujitsu> So hasn't built since python2.3 was removed.
[11:35] <ajmitch> as Fujitsu said ^^
[11:37] <Fujitsu> siretart, thanks :) (re. bug 63948)
[11:37] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 63948 in mpd "creating databases fails" [Unknown,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63948
[11:37] <sivang> if you take a look at https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+source/pygsm
[11:38] <sivang> you see that SOyuz think that it has been uploaded to edgy on 2006-06-08
[11:38] <sivang> is Soyuz wrong?
[11:38] <Fujitsu> No.
[11:38] <Fujitsu> It was uploaded to Edgy automatically, carried from Dapper.
[11:39] <imbrandon> e.g binary uploaded, not rebuilt
[11:39] <sivang> imbrandon: thanks
[11:39] <sivang> so the binaries are just copied from the previous rlease..
[11:40] <sivang> seems not the smartest thing to do. I was sure it always gets rebuilt with each new distrorelease :)
[11:41] <ajmitch> sivang: certainly not - anytime a rebuild happens, the version number *must* change
[11:42] <ajmitch> otherwise you'd have 2 binaries with the same version, built against different toolchains & libraries
[11:42] <ajmitch> making upgrading a nightmare
[11:43] <plugwash> also if ubuntu is using the pool system then i don't think they can have more than one binary package of the same name/version in the system even if they wan't to
[11:43] <ajmitch> yep
[11:44] <sivang> I see, okay, that makes sense. but shouldn't soyuz at least provide some info that a binary was 'copied' from the previous release rather then letting me puzzled infront of missing build logs? or should I have known that?
[11:45] <sivang> and if the answer is the latter, how can I know this right away without attempting to find build logs and failing? :-)
[11:45] <geser> from the version history on https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/pygsm you can see that the last upload was in hoary
[11:45] <plugwash> it seems odd to me that it would be listed as an upload to edgy at all, i'd have thought the bulk copy would be silent
[11:46] <sivang> plugwash: well, that would have helped me to remove the ambiguity just as well :)
[11:47] <sivang> geser: from the :
[11:47] <sivang> Initially uploaded to:
[11:47] <sivang> Ubuntu Hoary
[11:47] <sivang> ?
[11:47] <imbrandon> sivang, no look at the last time the version number changed ;)
[11:47] <imbrandon> that was the last upload
[11:47] <imbrandon> and rebuild
[11:48] <sivang> imbrandon: ah, doh, ajmitch noted everytime the package is rebuild the version number must change. this is the right rule to follow then :)
[11:49] <plugwash> the "every rebuild the version must change" is the reason you see binary packages with + added to the end of the version number (at least in debian)
[11:50] <superm1> plugwash, what happens when there are two rebuilds then before a new version?  two +'s?
[11:50] <geser> sivang: and here is the old buildlog http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/p/pygsm/0.1-1ubuntu1/
[11:50] <LaserJock> UTC+9.5 ? that's interesting
[11:50] <plugwash> sorry its not just + its + followed by a numer
[11:50] <superm1> oh
[11:50] <sivang> plugwash: can you think of an example?
[11:51] <imbrandon> rebuilds in ubuntu generaly get a new reversion like -XubuntuN where N is incremented
[11:53] <plugwash> sivang i'll find one gimme a min
[11:53] <sivang> imbrandon: Kamion noted that a plain rebuild, without any ubuntu changes should get buildX
[11:53] <sivang> (to ease mergers/sync afterwards)
[11:54] <sivang> hmm, the package I did all this fuss for is pygsm, which seems to not exist in debian
[11:55] <imbrandon> yea but going from 1.5.3-6ubuntu5 to 1.5.3-6buntu5-build1 is silly, it becomes 1.5.3-6ubuntu6 , BUT 1.5-3 would become 1.5-3build1 yes
[11:57] <plugwash> sorry its +b<number> not +<number>
[11:57] <plugwash> http://packages.debian.org/unstable/net/3270-common <-- there is an example of a package that has been rebuilt once for i386 but not for any of the other architectures
[11:58] <imbrandon> and that dosent happen in ubuntu, its built for all again, as we dont use binary uploads directly
[11:58] <plugwash> debian don't use binary uploads for rebuilds either anymore
[11:58] <plugwash> iirc they just have a switch somewhere that they use to tell the buildds that a package needs rebuilding
[11:59] <plugwash> and they can set it on a per architecture basis
[11:59] <sivang> imbrandon: right, all uploads are source uploads in ubuntu
[12:00] <imbrandon> sivang, yea thats the point i was making
[12:00] <plugwash> imbrandon well it makes it much easier to get self compiling compilers in
[12:00] <LaserJock> imbrandon: I believe it also makes you prove you could build it :-)
[12:00] <sivang> ah right, can relieve from having to bootstrap self contained langs
[12:00] <imbrandon> plugwash, well thats a corner case , not needed for the vast majority of packages that can be bootstraped
[12:01] <sivang> anyway, anyone have opinion on what looks to be completely deserted pygsm ?
[12:01] <imbrandon> sivang, check the rdepends and file a bug for removal
[12:01] <imbrandon> imho
[12:01] <ajmitch> oh look, root exploit in the nvidia binary driver
[12:02] <ajmitch> what a surprise
[12:02] <sivang> ajmitch: hehe
[12:02] <imbrandon> hahahahah
[12:02] <sivang> who discovered it?
[12:02] <sivang> nvidia? :)
[12:02] <ajmitch> it's a familiar bug - the same one that had the code of conduct screen taking down X
[12:02] <ajmitch> no
[12:02] <imbrandon> sony rootkit ? heh
[12:02] <ajmitch> nvidia would have silently fixed it, I'm sure
[12:02] <ajmitch> http://download2.rapid7.com/r7-0025/
[12:03] <ajmitch> the DoS listed is identical to one that has shown up a few times on malone
[12:03] <geser> sivang: pygsm seems to be also dead upstream, the last and only release was on December 27, 2003
[12:05] <sivang> geser: indeed, I am now filing a removal request
[12:05] <sivang> geser: (made sure that has no rdepends)