[12:17] Toadstool: usual procedure is to let one of the MOTU UVF team know [12:19] ajmitch: and you're part of that team? :) [12:19] Toadstool: are you reading pm's ? :P [12:19] pygi: yup [12:19] oki, please respond then :) [12:20] Toadstool: sure [12:20] Toadstool: it helps if we know what's been uploaded when kamion asks for approval [12:21] yup, then there will be a gnomebaker upload in a few minutes [12:21] as I can tell :) [12:22] heh === doko_ [n=doko@dslb-088-073-076-102.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:31] pygi: pdebuild-ing === Amaranth [n=travis@ubuntu/member/amaranth] has joined #ubuntu-motu === bddebian2 [n=bdefrees@71.224.172.103] has joined #ubuntu-motu === imbrandon waves [12:56] hi imbrandon [12:56] ello bhale [12:56] nick change? [12:57] yes [12:57] ;) [12:57] you should let me have brandon ;) [12:57] hehe [12:57] someone has it [12:57] i believe [12:57] yea , i thought it was you === imbrandon checks [12:57] [notice(NickServ:NickServ@services.)] Nickname: brandon [12:57] [notice(NickServ:NickServ@services.)] Registered: 1 year 6 weeks 5 days (3h 24m 46s) ago [12:57] [notice(NickServ:NickServ@services.)] Last Seen: 4 days (9h 19m 42s) ago (brandon|around seen 4 days (9h 19m 42s) ago) [12:57] [notice(NickServ:NickServ@services.)] Last Seen Address: n=brandon@72.158.105.2 [12:58] its not me [12:58] [notice(NickServ:NickServ@services.)] Nickname: Tseng [12:58] [notice(NickServ:NickServ@services.)] Registered: 3 years 37 weeks 4 days (22h 9m 26s) ago [12:58] he's too new :) [12:58] ;) [12:58] iirc he does linux stuff but not ubuntu [12:58] i talked to him long ago when i registerd on freenode [12:59] i know several brandon's [12:59] but not this one [12:59] bhale, you comming to mtv ? [12:59] no [12:59] ahh darn ;( [12:59] i'd rather have my appendix put back and removed again [12:59] sorry. [12:59] hahahaha [01:00] he registered just before me [01:00] [17:59] [Notice] -NickServ- Nickname: imbrandon << ONLINE >> [01:00] [17:59] [Notice] -NickServ- Registered: 1 year 12 weeks 5 days (20h 14m 55s) ago [01:00] the best part of that was waking up with no appendix, and finding out you are just as sick as when you started [01:00] well with this nick, i had another a few years back i let expire [01:00] (and sliced open twice) [01:00] lol [01:01] family guy preempted by baseball [01:01] i just got done watching the cheifs get slaughtered [01:01] baseball starts 9 months ago or something [01:02] it never ends [01:02] heh [01:02] there is a short off season [01:02] its called spring training === imbrandon used to want to play pro baseball in highschool, and at that time i probably could have if i stuck to it [01:03] oh good, MythBusters is on [01:04] you know i ment mountain view cali not music television right brandon ? [01:04] lol [01:04] yes [01:04] Ubuntu Lockin 6 [01:04] kk just thought i would make sure with all the tv talk ;) [01:05] hahah Lockin , havent thought about that in a long time [01:05] thats what it is [01:05] basicly yea , heh === LaserJock [n=mantha@ubuntu/member/laserjock] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:06] wb LaserJock [01:06] yay LaserJock [01:06] hum , i need some extra contract work *thinks* [01:08] hi everybody [01:09] how go's it LaserJock === Arrogance [n=aks@ottawa-hs-209-217-119-130.d-ip.magma.ca] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:10] hmm, I don't know [01:11] I'm kinda sick of reading "Why do you ignore feature/user group/package X ?" [01:12] heh, me too , but i kinda just give them a generic answer and go on [01:12] just do what i can [01:13] i hate it when it creeps up 2 weeks before release, i'm like youve had 4 months to mention this before [01:13] mhm [01:13] then they get all pissy [01:14] well, I don't want to tell people "We simply don't have time or resources" cause then it sounds like Ubuntu is in really bad shape [01:14] but that's usually exactly what happens [01:14] well it is true, we are limited [01:14] as bad as it sounds its not really "bad" [01:14] but thats hard to explain , i hear ya [01:15] my latest plight is trying to make libgpod work with the new ipods without introducing a new version [01:15] it's also a catch 22 [01:15] this late in the cycle [01:15] as you need people to test and report bugs [01:15] seems apple has pushed a new firmware [01:16] but then it becomes harder to fix bugs becuase we are trying to stabalize [01:16] LaserJock, exactly [01:19] I don't know how people can stand more then 1 or 2 releases [01:19] pygi: great! the patch attached to the bug report is not complete :p [01:20] Toadstool: ehm?! [01:20] hey LaserJock & imbrandon [01:28] hi Toadstool [01:28] what happened!!? [01:28] pygi: device.h modification is missing in the patch attached to the bug [01:28] o joy, is the upstream (SF bug attachment) patch complete? [01:28] I don't know, I took the diff directly in the cvs [01:28] heya Toadstool [01:28] pygi: ok, with the missing chunk, it builds fine ;) [01:28] good :P [01:28] you sure you tested that patch thoroughly? :p [01:28] we're supposed to test things? ;-) [01:28] heh [01:30] pygi: uploaded [01:31] Toadstool: yes, the patch works 100% [01:32] imbrandon: for ipod stuff look at libipoddevice, the new version works with the new firmware but it's not really a trivial change [01:33] slomo, yea the new version of libgpod does too ( that amarok uses ) but this late in the cycle i hate for a main uvf ( and doubt it would go though anyhow ) [01:34] imbrandon: i don't think it will be approved too ;) i asked for a far more trivial upload earlier today and got a "no" as answer [01:34] i have a amarok package on imbrandon.com that has the stuff for mtp and mp4v2 enabled from multiverse for people that need it to make their devices work i might just put it there for now [01:35] and worry about a "better fix" for edgy+1 [01:35] and then backport it if someoen requests it [01:36] i hate to go that route but this late it seems to be the only good option [01:36] sides it will give me some good feedback for when it does get uploaded ;) === lukaswayne9 [n=lukas@c-68-84-69-12.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === MatthewV [n=MatthewV@CPE-60-231-240-214.wa.bigpond.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:40] slomo: Do you think you could do a no-change upload of texlive-bin? See bug #65658 [01:40] Malone bug 65658 in texlive-bin "pdflatex: symbol lookup error: pdflatex: undefined symbol: _ZN4Dict3addERK10UGooStringP6Object" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/65658 [01:40] slomo: If a no-change upload can't get an exception I don't know what can. :-) [01:41] shawarma: thanks for noticing... i'll care for it :) ajmitch, what do you think? ;) [01:42] slomo: I tend to notice when my university project report fails to compile. :-) [01:46] heh [01:46] I wondered [01:52] hmm, anybody know off hand how long Gnome has been around? [01:53] 1997-ish [01:53] hi whiprush [01:53] LaserJock: shortly after KDE [01:53] huh, I thought it was later [01:54] i started using it in 98-99 === redguy [n=mati@afe60.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:54] I was probably using minux about that time ;-) [01:56] more likely Debian on ~11 floppy disks [01:57] i spent a week downloading redhat at 28.8 [01:58] yeah, I wasn't that excited [01:58] I just wanted a shell to play around with [01:58] it wasn't until I started grad school that I really started using Linux [01:59] :/ === pygi was using slack as always :P [02:00] slomo: you're on the uvf team, you can decide :) [02:00] afternoon all [02:01] I never even tried slack === netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> brown.freenode.net === Adri2000 [n=Adri2000@unaffiliated/adri2000] has joined #ubuntu-motu === slomo [n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Hawkwind [n=SoS@ulteo/community-leader/Hawkwind] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:02] slack was my first distro as well. I was young and nave back then. === xeruno [n=xeruno@cable201-233-8-2.epm.net.co] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:02] I found my first Linux CD's a couple of months ago. They were from '96, I think. [02:03] the first distro I used for more then 1 month was Gentto [02:03] LaserJock: Oh, dear. When was this? [02:03] only becosue it took more than a month to compile the desktop [02:03] ;) [02:03] heh :-) [02:04] haha [02:04] that was 2002 [02:04] n00b! [02:04] I used Gentoo for about 2 years [02:04] :-P [02:04] :-) [02:04] I really liked it [02:04] LaserJock, and still never got kde to boot ? [02:05] hehe \ === imbrandon ducks [02:05] gentoo rocked dude [02:05] things "just worked" [02:05] yea i know, i use it on some servers here [02:05] but its a pita [02:05] and it had all the apps I wanted [02:05] but yeah, I was a KDE guy back then [02:05] LaserJock: What are you doing here then? [02:06] and recompiling all of KDE all the time ... [02:06] not fun [02:06] shawarma: I had no need for a source distro [02:06] bad as it may seem, Ubuntu is like binary Gentoo for me ;-) [02:07] LaserJock: Someone told me that you don't *have* to compile everything yourself under Gentoo. [02:07] shawarma, no you dopnt have to you can use grp packages if you want stuff thats months out of date [02:07] yeah [02:07] maybe more [02:08] the kde grp packages are still 3.4 last i looked [02:08] etc [02:08] I was never into Gentoo for the performance, I never could tell much of a difference [02:08] I just liked having all programs I use [02:09] and I liked the forum community ;-) === Amaranth [n=travis@ubuntu/member/amaranth] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:10] food time, bbaib [02:11] sharms: slack rocks [02:11] I've never been too much of a forum person. [02:11] sharms: I used it since '95 [02:12] win 1 [02:12] grrr.. [02:12] Oh, dear. It's 2 AM again. I should go to bed. [02:13] g'night, all! [02:14] gnight [02:14] cya shawarma === lukaswayne9_ [n=lukas@c-68-84-69-12.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === zul [n=chuck@CPE0006258ec6c1-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === FunnyLookinHat [n=funnyloo@64.140.73.93] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Amaranth [n=travis@ubuntu/member/amaranth] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:24] pygi: any particular feature that makes slack rock? [02:24] LaserJock: it those days, ofcourse :) [02:26] I always avoided it because I didn't see any real package mangement [02:28] ah [02:29] there is no dependency management [02:30] i don't know if what they have qualifies as package management either [02:30] :P [02:31] slack packages actually allow dependencies [02:31] and you can take advantage of them using swaret or slapt-get [02:31] but nevermind, we're ubuntu here :) [02:33] hmm === LaserJock realizes he doesn't really get C++ .h files [02:35] ok, sleep time [02:35] 2:36 AM [02:35] will sleep two hours again [02:35] yikes [02:35] night [02:36] LaserJock: sorry, just remembered an earlier question. Try Thinking in C++, 2nd Ed., here: http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/docs/books/eckel/ [02:38] crimsun: cool, thanks [02:39] I'm trying to dive into an established project [02:39] and trying to make head or tails of it [02:39] heya crimsun [02:39] hi imbrandon [02:42] hrm anyone know the issue why faad2 in is multiverse and not universe, it dosent look to be a dependacy issue, so i'm guessing its with the program/lib its self [02:42] hmm, I thought it had non-free stuff [02:43] probably but i'm trying to see what exactly, becosue its has aac support and aac is iirc open source etc [02:43] thinking maybe i can do a dfsg version of it [02:43] *hopes* === ash211 [n=andrew@user-1121n9u.dsl.mindspring.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:43] if its just a small part of it thats not dfsg etc [02:45] imbrandon: it's patent-encumbered and we can't even legally distribute modified source. [02:45] imbrandon: patent reasons [02:45] faad2 or aac ? [02:45] aac [02:45] patented like all the mpeg stuff [02:45] hrm [02:46] iirc aac was open, i guess i was wrong /me *thinks* [02:46] it's "open" as in the specs are open, etc [02:46] but still the techniques (?) are patented [02:47] gah, xmms is still in main? [02:47] I have no idea why [02:47] i would hope not heh [02:47] xmms | 1.2.10+cvs20060429-1ubuntu2 | http://apt-proxy edgy/main Packages [02:47] you'd think not, by now.. [02:47] probably the last thing in main that can decode mp3 ;) [02:48] (and libmad) [02:48] oh mad is still there too... [02:48] hehe amarok can with 2 clicks now ;) /me is happy about that one [02:49] crap flac isnt free either ? man i need to study up some more [02:49] hmm, k3b, akode and libtunepimp are keeping it in main... so only because of kde stuff ;) [02:49] flac is unencumbered last I checked [02:49] there were rumours that something in flac is patented but nobody could proove it [02:50] hum i wonder why its in extra-codecs then [02:50] i'm trying to do a little background work for this spec and get a clear ".plan" for the kde side for mtv [02:50] ( and just generaly becouse its needed ) [02:51] but codecs are a mess it seems , well mostly [02:51] imbrandon: in extracodecs i only have ffmpeg, faad and mad [02:51] not sure where you're getting flac in extracodecs [02:51] libxine1: /usr/lib/xine/plugins/1.1.2/xineplug_flac.so [02:51] slomo, well xine engine ( specificly amarok-xine ) wont play a *.flac without libxine-extracodecs [02:52] hrm [02:52] interesting [02:52] any idea why? [02:52] no , thats what i'm trying to find out now [02:52] ok :) [02:52] seems it should [02:53] anyone else here wanna confirm what i just said ? [02:53] probably another case of xine not happy with the splitted situation... [02:53] e.g try to play a flac without libxine-extracodecs [02:53] to make sure i'm not a corner case somehow and it is truely a problem [02:54] before i dig way into it [02:54] one moment [02:55] ok, confirmed here... [02:55] kk good, well not good but makin sure === slomo just hates xine a little bit more ;) [02:55] heh [02:56] why couldent i notice these things a few weeks ago before RC === imbrandon mubles [02:57] maybe because it uses ffmpeg for decoding of flac [03:04] possibly === reda_ea [n=reda@adsl196-153-82-206-196.adsl196-3.iam.net.ma] has joined #ubuntu-motu === minghua [n=minghua@adsl-75-34-136-161.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === zenrox [n=zenrox@pool-71-115-219-183.spknwa.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === DarkMageZ [n=richard@59.167.29.35] has joined #ubuntu-motu === amachu [n=amachu@203.101.38.219] has joined #ubuntu-motu === gnomefre1k [n=gnomefre@adsl-144-155-23.rmo.bellsouth.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === tuxmaniac [n=aanjhan@unaffiliated/tuxmaniac] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:22] hmm, what's do you get with an avahi-enabled gaim? === gnomefreak [n=gnomefre@ubuntu/member/gnomefreak] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:26] LaserJock: ability to talk on the network with other people [03:26] e.g. they come up in your contact list etc [03:26] :o is edgy's gaim built with this? [03:27] on the local network? [03:27] how annoying ;-) [03:28] DarkMageZ: no [03:28] DarkMageZ: see the ubuntu-devel mailing list [03:29] LaserJock: for edgy+1, telepathy should solve this issue [03:30] yeah, yeah, bunch of annoying stuff. I can imagine lots of people will love it though ;-) === gnomefreak [n=gnomefre@ubuntu/member/gnomefreak] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:31] almost as bad as having to wade through everybodies printer to get to the one I want [03:31] adhock networking is the future [03:32] I suppose, doesn't mean I have to like it :-) [03:33] we have maybe 100 computers on our network [03:34] I dislike having to wade around through everybodies service brodcasting [03:35] hmm, has to be enabled @ configure time? does it end up as a plugin? or an always enabled feature... [03:37] LaserJock: if you are at work, you should have an admin to make a decision on it [03:38] DarkMageZ: currently avahi is turned off by deafult [03:38] it is likely to be on by default in edgy+! === ash211 [n=andrew@user-1121n9u.dsl.mindspring.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:04] anyone ever used a curses based gnutella client? [04:05] i found a few on google but i mean experice if they are good/bad/ugly === AstralJava [n=jaska@cm-083-102-068-117.lohjanpuhelin.fi] has left #ubuntu-motu [] === zul [n=chuck@CPE0006258ec6c1-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Fujitsu [n=Fujitsu@ubuntu/member/fujitsu] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:24] hi Fujitsu [04:24] Hey LaserJock. [04:25] heya Fujitsu [04:25] we need to get that gcl/maxima fix in -updates or I'm going to go nuts with bug reports [04:25] Hi imbrandon. [04:25] LaserJock, true... But the proper procedure never got decided on... [04:25] yeah === Fujitsu gets his scissors and aims them at the red tape. [04:26] do we need another MOTU meeting to finalize the Stable Release Updates procedure? [04:29] Or do we just want to attempt to get gcl/maxima fixed for the moment as described on MOTU/Processes/SRU? That process is workable, though not exactly finalised.. [04:31] yeah, maybe we should use it as a test case [04:31] I think the 2 weeks in -proposed is a little odd [04:31] That's more than most main stuff gets, isn't it? [04:33] yes [04:33] Main gets 1 week [04:34] sweet! I just found 3 Dapper CDs [04:34] I thought I left them in Mountain View [04:37] When were you there? [04:37] in August [04:37] for Ubucon [04:37] Ah. [04:37] kinda gave 2 presentations === Fujitsu attacks the lack of SRU policy. [04:38] It really makes things rather difficult :S [04:38] yeah, maybe just start the process [04:38] hey Fujitsu [04:38] Hi Toadstool. === Toadstool takes a look at what's been modified on the SRU wiki page since the meeting [04:39] First up, gcl needs that patch. [04:39] Now, can I remember where it is... [04:41] hmm [04:41] I guess the first question is if it is a "high profile" update [04:42] Yes. It certainly is. [04:43] think so? === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:43] personally I wouldn't think it would be [04:43] IBM Pollyanna Principle: [04:43] Machines should work. People should think. [04:43] considering i dont even know what it is i wouldnet be [04:43] I guess that's why we need a policy [04:44] and that's why the whole "high profile" thing is going to be troublesome [04:45] it's high profile in the sense that it's a pretty severe bug [04:45] LaserJock, why wouldn't it be? We have a lot of people complaining, and it completely breaks that package. In main/restricted, severe regressions come under that category. [04:45] This is a regression. [04:45] because "high profile" mean high up on the popcon stats to me [04:46] as long as the package is unusable, I'd say that it is a valid candidate for a SRU [04:46] hmm, ok well maybe I'm just thinking of this wrong [04:46] LaserJock, high profile bug, not package. As in, it's not some obscure bug that somebody might run into once every 1,000,000 tries. [04:47] I was reading "high profile" as package [04:47] i.e. breaking Xorg is a big no no [04:47] `Just high-profile bug fixes' [04:47] I still don't see it as a high-profile bug fix in the larger scheme of things [04:48] Not in the scheme of things, no. [04:48] but then this is the problem with this SRU procedure [04:48] Yeah, you can't have a proper, objective, quantitative assessment of the high-profileness of a bug fix. [04:49] ok, but I guess maybe this is what I'm getting hung up on [04:49] what happens to non-"high profile" bug fixes? [04:50] They get their bugs spammed eternally, like #43150? [04:50] bug 43150 [04:50] Malone bug 43150 in gcl "wxmaxima fails with error, can't connect to maxima" [Undecided,In progress] http://launchpad.net/bugs/43150 [04:50] haha [04:50] I was thinking it would imply we could just upload the update [04:51] I guess that is an important point [04:51] Oh, you think like that. [04:52] I took it to mean that little tiny bugs won't be fixed at all, only big ones will. [04:52] to me SRU was going to be used to make sure we don't break something important === ogra [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:52] But you've taken it to mean that little ones are exempt from the procedure? [04:52] yes [04:53] We need the almight dholbach :( [04:53] *almighty [04:53] I figured it was trivial to decide if it goes in -updates or not, the question was "how" it got to -updates and how much testing needed to be done === joejaxx [i=jadaz87@ubuntu/member/joejaxx] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:54] if it is how you are thinking then it is indeed a "high profile" bug of course :-) [04:54] Yes, we were thinking of it in completely different meanings... [04:54] By your definition, it's not a high profile bug. [04:54] It cannot break anything further than it is now. [04:54] It's already ultimately broken, so it can't get any worse. [04:56] but actually your reading makes more sense, as it is called StableReleaseUpdates and not HighRiskStableReleaseUpdates ;-) [04:56] what about: package not usable/uninstallable -> eligible for a SRU -> need debdiff, diffstat, buildlog, approval by motu-sru team -> fix uploaded to -proposed -> we ask people to test it thoroughly -> if no more complaints about the bug -> -updates ? [04:57] that's still a lot of "stuff" to go through [04:57] well, it's a stable release ;) [04:57] since right now it's just motu checks patch/fix -> motu uploads [04:59] This fix is minor, and has no potential to break things. Toadstool's sequence there really is overkill. [05:00] main stuff doesn't go through many things like that. [05:00] Just debdiff, sometimes straight to -updates, sometimes to -proposed then tested. [05:00] and then X.org breaks :p [05:00] Er, yeah. === Toadstool ducks [05:00] but we have no real X.org, it's Universe [05:01] yeah, true === ubuntu-es [n=ubuntu@200.48.78.2] has joined #ubuntu-motu [05:01] And universe != main. [05:01] I want to keep -updates quality high [05:01] As do I. === joejaxx [i=jadaz87@ubuntu/member/joejaxx] has joined #ubuntu-motu [05:01] I had to fix a -updates already [05:01] I'd rather avoid that [05:01] It's very high at the moment, 'cause there's only one or two things in there :P [05:03] 2 weeks is too long I think [05:03] I'd rather go for an "ack" system [05:04] Much like UVF at the moment? [05:04] yes [05:04] but maybe a much larger group (perhaps all of MOTU) that can ack [05:05] I realize that -updates isn't use a ton, but I hate putting more work on the same people [05:07] Speaking of stable updates, do any of you think dapper should have different policy than other stable releases? [05:07] probably not [05:07] I won't bother with stable updates for edgy once edgy+1 is released [05:08] but I still want to push some stable updates for dapper after edgy release [05:08] I can see how in theory there would be a difference, but in practice I don't think there will be [05:08] if a bug need fixing it would be nice to fix it in any release we find it [05:09] Dapper is different, LaserJock. [05:09] Dapper will be shipped through ShipIt for quite some time. [05:09] I don't see how it would be fore Universe === No1Viking [n=micke@h-83-140-104-74.ip.rixbredband.se] has joined #ubuntu-motu [05:09] sure [05:10] but I think Edgy should get updates as well [05:10] especially as Edgy seems to be more "stable" for many people [05:10] I always feel the biggest burden of stable release updates is on the release team [05:11] preparing a update is relatively easy, but making sure it doesn't break anything else is hard [05:11] but I can see LaserJock's point [05:11] right, except the release team wants us to handle most of the work for Universe [05:12] If there is user interest and developer willing to work on the update, I suppose why not [05:12] the developer is responsible to fix stuff if he breaks stuff [05:12] Universe is Universe, we do what we can [05:12] really REALLY conservative users can always use only -security, not -updates [05:13] what SRU should do is provide guidance and a process wherby we can have as high of quality updates as we can [05:13] acutually that's probably what I am going to do if I run a stable release [05:14] the problem is the testing, I think [05:14] how to get an update to a decent amount of people to test before it goes to -update [05:15] I fixed an -update upload that didn't install because a dep was missed [05:15] mearly installing the .deb before you upload would help :-) === kyral_ [n=kyral@HyperDream.graham.clarkson.edu] has joined #ubuntu-motu [05:16]