/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2006/10/17/#edubuntu.txt

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stelisHello?12:34
pygihi stelis 12:34
stelisHi12:34
stelisI read Richard J.'s blog entry, and was interested in helping with docs12:35
stelisDo you know who the best person to speak to is?12:36
pygiyes, me or Hedgemage12:36
stelisOK, cool.12:36
pyginixternal: you brought a lot of people here ;)12:37
nixternalim hoping that is a good thing ;)12:37
nixternalstelis: are you familiar with Docbook?  SVN?12:37
stelisYes to the first.12:37
nixternaldon't worry if you say no, as that is fine12:38
nixternaloh wow, cool12:38
stelisFWIE, I've worked on OSS docs before12:38
nixternalthat is a bonus then...great12:38
nixternaloh wow, even better!12:38
nixternalhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Repository12:38
stelisBut that was CVS rather than SVN.. I've got a checkout and built it though12:38
nixternalyou can take a look there, as I have posted the docs on the doc svn repo...so it is easy to 'svn co dir/' to download them12:39
nixternalwe are working out of the trunk/edubuntu/handbook/C/ directory12:39
nixternalif you grab the docs, and look in there, there are around 25 .xml files in there...you can view https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuHandbook/Management to get an idea of the layout12:39
stelisOK, I've got that, and a test Edubuntu Edgy setup12:39
nixternalp1-xxxx.xml would be Part 1, p2 part 2 and so on12:40
nixternalyou are ready to rock and roll..the LTSP stuff is pretty much taken care of...part 2 that is....part 1, part 3, and part 4 are pretty much empty yet12:40
nixternalfeel free to look around and see what you might be interested in helping out with12:41
nixternalim preparing a "presentation", 1 of the about 20 i have to give in the next week or so12:41
pyginixternal: same here, lol :)12:41
pygibut you know that already :P12:41
nixternalya..i have a cool one i did for a master slide layout12:41
nixternalim making a Kubuntu one, Ubuntu one, and Edubuntu one...and they look like the desktops12:42
pygioh :P I forgot I could have given you OO.Impress templates12:42
stelisFWIW, I've got screenshots of the installation process12:42
stelisVmware makes screendumps very easy12:43
nixternalthats worth a lot actually stelis, as it prevents us from having to do it12:43
nixternali was going to do them with vmware as well, but you beat me to it ;)  thanks12:43
stelisI've done this before :)12:44
stelisI'll upload them to a server, and post a link in a sec12:44
stelisOK, screenshots: http://www.elsn.org/downloads/edubuntu/screenshots/12:51
stelisThe numbers in the filenames indicate the sequence 12:52
pygistelis: permissions pls :)12:53
pygihehe12:53
stelisGah, that bites me every time 12:55
stelisFixed.12:56
stelisThe screen resolutions are as Vmware grabs them...12:57
pygiall fine :)12:57
stelisSo 640x480 for text-mode and 1024x768 for graphical screens, I think12:57
stelisCool.12:57
stelisWindows has recursive permissions12:58
stelisI've never adjusted to Linux not doing it12:58
stelisOK... A really basic question: 01:03
stelisTarget audience01:03
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stelisI'm looking at the heading "Networks and Networking" and wondering how much knowledge can be assumed...01:04
pygistelis: it's best to assume very trivial knowledge01:04
stelisHmm...01:05
pyginot really "move your move over here...then click here..."01:05
pygibut for a regular Joe user01:05
stelisOK, so we may need to start with a link to explain terms like "IP address"?01:06
pygilol, no :)01:06
pygino, no, don't go with explaining what IP address is :)01:06
pygilet's assume they know the basic terms, ok? :)01:07
stelisTo explain where I'm coming from...01:07
stelisI'm not sure whether the target is the professional IT technician01:07
stelisOr IT teachers01:08
stelisWhose knowledge is a bit more patchy01:08
pygiright, but we don't want to explain trivial things like IP address & stuff01:09
stelisBeing *really* new to Edubuntu, I'm not sure who the adopters are 01:10
pygiwell, it all depends if a school has an IT professional who will install the complete Informatics system, or is the teacher the one doing it01:10
stelisIs Edubuntu being used mostly on self-contained networks?01:12
pygiehm, you mean no access to internet?01:12
stelisMore WRT to how it interacts with the institutional network and the central management 01:13
stelisWe have labs where central IT just provides IP addresses and walks away01:14
stelisand centrally managed ones01:14
pygi"central IT" as a person or what?!01:14
=== pygi is confused as always :)
stelisI mean a central department and the management that they provide, like an LDAP directory and so on.01:16
pygioh, well Edubuntu is actually a server ^_^01:16
pygiYou run thin clients then --> pulling it from server's chroot01:16
stelisWhere I work we have three workgroups which are independently managed by departmental people, who don't work for the main IT teams that run the rest of the network, and aren't necessarily IT professionals. 01:19
stelisThose workgroups have their own servers01:19
stelisOS X and Netware01:20
stelisBut they rely on DNS managed centrally01:20
stelisI'm wondered if Edubuntu is used in that way01:21
stelisOr in smaller organizations where the Edubuntu system is pretty much the whole network01:22
stelisSo it may have to run the DNS as well (for example)01:22
stelisI guess the question is: can you say "ask your network provider for <DNS/Proxy> settings", or whether you need to assume that the reader has to sort it out fro themselves.01:25
pygiyou can ask that for a reader I guess01:25
stelisSorry if this seemed like a dumb question - I think that what I'll do is try to write a draft on the assumption that the reader has an Internet connection of some kind already, and see where it goes from there.01:29
pygistelis: feel free to mail me at mario dot danic at gmail dot com if you want me to help you with anything, or review, or whateva :)01:30
pygithere is no dumb questions...except the one not asked01:30
stelisThanks - you've just preempted my next question :)01:30
pygigood :P01:31
stelisCan you give me an idea of the deadlines?01:31
pygiASAP :P01:32
stelisI guess what I'm asking is the freeze date :)01:33
pygihm....ASAP? :)01:33
pygipreety soon actually01:33
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stelisMy previous experience was that the docs had to be frozen at a point before the release to allow for translation etc. 01:35
pygistelis: right, but we are already past that point01:35
pygidue to some circumstances01:35
stelisAh01:35
pygiah :)01:36
stelisOK - I've a suggestion01:36
bddebianHeya01:36
stelisWhy not create a screencast or slideshow to walk new users through the process01:36
pygihey bddebian :)01:37
pygistelis: uh, uh, not now :)01:37
bddebianHi pygi01:37
stelisMy thought was it might be faster to make than the written documentation, you see01:38
stelisAnd then focus on the text after.01:38
pygistelis: nop, we want the book :)01:39
pygiit is doable, trust me01:39
pygiI wrote one for dapper with hedgemage :)01:39
stelisI wrote for Fedora :)01:40
stelisA much smaller work, though :)01:41
stelisOK: if you like what I'll try to do is finish off part I (or at least a draft) in the next day or two01:44
pygioki :)01:44
stelisI can probably also pick up part IV01:44
stelisI probably don't have the experience with LTSP to fill out the other sections.01:45
stelisAlthough I can probably write at least basic text for the update and security sections, if needs be.01:46
pygistelis: no worries, I'm here to instruct and guide if needs be01:46
stelisCheers. When I say that I'm new to LTSP...this is about day 4.01:47
pygi:)01:49
stelisIt was great to realise that Edubuntu works out of the box, and that I'd didn't need to write my own dhcpd.conf just to get it started.  01:50
pygi:)02:01
nixternalsorry..getting ready to head to dinner...02:03
nixternalanyways, don't worry about the LTSP section, as it is already being handled02:03
pygibon appetit nixternal :)02:04
nixternalpart 3 and 4 need the loving ;)02:04
nixternalbon McDonalds ;)02:04
pygihehe :P02:04
stelis:) 02:04
nixternali have no clue what i said, except for McDonalds02:04
pygigood McDonalds :)02:04
nixternalI shall return, thanks stelis for your help!02:04
nixternalwell, that is good ;)02:04
pygithat's what you said :)02:04
nixternalbbiab02:04
pygioki, 2:06 am02:04
stelisCheers02:04
pygitime for me to sleep if nobody needs me...02:04
pygigoing once...02:05
nixternalpygi: 02:05
pygigoing twice...02:05
nixternalhey pygi02:05
pygisold!02:05
nixternalbefore you go02:05
nixternalare you still here?02:05
pygiyes?02:05
nixternaloh02:05
nixternaljust wanted to say good night and see if you would stick around ;)02:05
nixternalhehe02:05
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pygiergh! :)02:06
nixternalhaha02:06
nixternalg;nite02:06
pyginight02:06
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thompa!xgl05:31
ubotuCompiz (compositing window manager) and XGL (X server architecture layered on top of OpenGL)  -  Howto at http://help.ubuntu.com/community/CompositeManager  -  Help in #ubuntu-xgl  -  See http://tinyurl.com/pw5ez for Kubuntu systems05:31
thompaanybody going to install edgy in school?05:32
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RichEdhi cbx33 09:33
cbx33hey RichEd 09:33
RichEdjonathan1 / highvoltage : you there ?09:33
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cbx33hey jono 09:47
jonohey cbx33 09:47
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RichEdhey jono ...09:50
jono hey RichEd 09:51
RichEdjono: We must chat soon about putting together a mini community agenda for UDS and AH ... been discussing with Matt Nazum09:52
RichEdhave you planned any formal Community Slots or BOF sessions ?09:52
jonoRichEd, yeah, I have been working on community slots over the last day or so - thinkabout what is needed09:53
jonoRichEd, I am hoping to register them in LP later this week09:53
RichEdGreat ... We would want at least one meeting with Matt Nazum and Philipp Schroder and yourself to explain our view of Education Community and the new space we are creating. Pop into here and give me a ping when you have 2 mins #ubuntu-education09:54
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=== RichEd -> meetings 3 hours
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jsgotangcohey guys01:41
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pawmanHi there can anyone help with networking02:18
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jsgotangcoogra: http://toosa.oo-linux.com/cms/index.php/home/my_book02:55
ograjsgotangco, WOW !02:58
jsgotangcoit was just shown to me03:01
jsgotangcoits from the indonesian team03:02
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ograthats very cool03:04
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luckyedCheerio! I'm having probs with the install cd of Edubuntu 6.10 Beta. Md5 checksum seems ok, but when I run a cd check or try to install a server, I get an error message about some files not found on the cd. Tried to download the iso twice and burned it with 8x speed the second time, but the error stays... Anyone else has experienced this or knows where to get a proper iso image???03:05
ograif the Cd check fails but md5 is fine, you likely burned the CD to fast03:06
ogratry 4x03:07
ograapart from that see the /topic for the download URL03:07
luckyedogra: That's where I got the image, but it didn't work. Has anyone actually succeeded in installing from the install cd? Just wanna know...03:11
=== ogra did about 50 test installs ...
ogra(on all arches)03:11
ograso yes, its working for me ... 03:12
luckyedOK, sounds convincing. I'll give it one more try! :)03:12
ograand for various other testers as well03:12
ograbtw, the server install is whats on the ubuntu-server iso ... very likely not what you want 03:12
ogra(there is a translation error in the first Cd screen)03:12
ograshould be "commandline minimal install" instead 03:13
ograif you want the edubuntu classroom server, just use the default item (install to HD or so)03:13
luckyedI'm actually writing from an installed version of edubuntu 6.10, but it's installed from the live cd and thus the ltsp stuff is not set up. And the ltsp packages in synaptic are the wrong ones, aren't they?03:15
ograno03:16
ograjust dont use the ltsp-utils package (which should be gone from edgy anyway)03:16
luckyedahem, and you're right, I meant the classroom server install, not the "server install", as I need gnome, too...03:16
ograbut the installer sets up a bunch of defaultsd you will miss if you install ltsp manually03:16
luckyedhmm, I thought so. Install cd is just burning with 4x this time..... let's see03:18
luckyedah, and btw: Would it be possible to use the upgrade function from 6.10 to 6.10 without messing up the ltsp installation or anything else?03:19
luckyed6.06. to 6.10....03:19
luckyed...because I've got a running Edubuntu 6.06 server with ~500 active users and I'd like to have the transition to 6.10 as smooth as possible (understandingly:) 03:20
ograwell, i'd suggest to wipe the ltsp chroot then and rebuild it ... its only three commands03:20
ograactually you could even try it with the ltsp-server/-standalone packages and build it manually03:21
ograafterwards run: sudo dpkg-reconfigure -pcritical edubuntu-artwork03:21
ograhttps://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall (afterwards == after you follwed that wikipage to get the initial setup)03:22
luckyedbut then again, aren't a lot of packages still left from the old version that wouldn't be needed by 6.10? In this case I'd prefer a clean install03:22
ograwell, update-manager should care 03:22
ograand edgy has a 2remove old cruft" feature in apt now03:23
luckyedI already tried to install the ltsp-server-standalone package and run ltsp-manager afterwards, but it gives me: (ltsp-manager:7072): libglade-WARNING **: could not find glade file './ltsp-manager.glade'03:24
luckyedTraceback (most recent call last):03:24
luckyed  File "/usr/bin/ltsp-manager", line 409, in ?03:24
luckyed    base = LTSPManager()03:24
luckyed  File "/usr/bin/ltsp-manager", line 18, in __init__03:24
luckyed    self.wTree=gtk.glade.XML ("./ltsp-manager.glade")03:24
luckyedRuntimeError: could not create GladeXML object03:24
cbx33ogra: is there a package for ltsp-manager?03:25
luckyedyes03:25
ogracbx33, yes, but it still has no backend03:26
cbx33hmm....ahhh03:26
ograso it wont do anything ... its only a gui03:26
cbx33that's what I thought...03:26
cbx33sorry coming in on the tail end of this conversation03:26
ograand i'm still working on gui parts here03:26
cbx33right03:26
ogra(havent pushed the changes for quite somne time)03:26
cbx33ogra: did you want a hand on it?03:27
ograsure, but lets have a spec first 03:27
cbx33well, the only reason I said it was....I have a week off next week, because it's half term I am allowed to take holiday, so I may have some spare time to work on things03:27
cbx33pessulus/SCP seems fixed now03:28
ograi'll be busy as hello next week ... including no sleep for some days to test the final iso etc03:29
cbx33ok03:29
cbx33did you want a hand with any of that03:29
ograsure03:29
cbx33I can only test in vm's as I'll be without the hardware I have at work03:29
ograhelp testing :)03:29
ograthats why we have the qemu support built in, even vm's will be fine for install tests03:30
cbx33ok sure03:31
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bddebianHeya03:51
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sbalneavMorning all!05:05
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RichEdhi sbalneav :)05:05
sbalneavHello RichEd05:05
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highvoltageRichEd: here now05:24
RichEdhighvoltage: thanks -> msg window05:27
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Dheerajhi wat package is available on edubuntu?06:01
Dheerajdoes it has all dev package?06:02
Dheerajeg c++ ide, eclipse etc?06:02
ograit has *all* packages ubuntu has06:02
ogra(available that is ... there is no compiler installed by default)06:03
Dheerajis it same as ubuntu?06:03
stgraberall the ubuntu (ubuntu/kubuntu/edubuntu ...) use the same packages and the same repositories06:04
ograyes, but with a different set of default packages, different artwork and a ltsp setup out of the box for classrooms06:04
stgraberthat's just the package installed by default that are differents06:04
ograwell and the installer 06:04
Dheeraji thought i'll get all dev tool with that06:04
ograsure you can ... but they wont be there directly after install ...06:05
Dheerajthat means i'll have to download those packages?06:05
ograbut there are more than 17000 packages ... including all the dev tools you can install directly afterwards06:05
ograyou have to strt up your package manager and select what you want ...06:06
ograsame as in ubuntu06:06
Dheerajbut most of the package is going to be downloaded from net right?06:06
ograwell, the compilert itself is on the CD ...06:07
ogra*compiler06:07
stgraberIt depends of the one that are on the CD/DVD you use06:07
ograbut if you want to do development, you surely need libraries etc06:07
ograthese have to come froim the net06:07
ograwe'd have to ship on several DVDs if we'd ship all the devel packages06:08
Dheerajwhy they don't ship all the package?06:08
Dheerajnot every body have high speed net connection06:08
ogranot everybody has a DVD reader either06:08
ograso we cant ship DVDs06:09
ograsince we send out the CDs fro free, we cant afford to press more than one CD06:09
Dheerajthan all in 4-5cd ?06:09
ograand you only get so much packages into 700MB06:09
Dheeraji recently odered 40 cd and distributed it among my friends :)06:10
ograwe'll discuss having a second CD in mountain view at the conference in november ....06:10
ograso probably edgy+1 will be a 2 CD distro (for edubuntu at least)06:10
ograbut its very unlikely that we'll fill up the space with development packages06:11
Dheerajand i know many ppl who use to order 10 cd but they don't even use a single 106:11
Dheerajbest idea is allowing user whether they want all package or limited 106:11
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stgraberogra: Is the possiblity to have the normal installer (not the graphical one) included on the CD also in the things you have to discuss ? (I had 10-15 people that had some problem to install with the Install/Live CD and only 128MB of ram)06:12
ograwell, not if you have technical limitations 06:12
ograi.e. 1.4Gb of space on two CDs isnt much 06:12
Dheerajyeah thats a majour problem06:13
ograstgraber, the LiveCD pretty clear states that it needs *at least* 256M06:13
ograthats one reason why we still use the non live CD for our default install in edubuntu06:13
Dheerajeven i faced the problem while installing it on my pc 06:14
Dheerajp4 with 256mb ram06:14
ograso we can support smaller footprints06:14
Dheerajthan i installed it on safe graphic mode06:14
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Dheerajthere should be option whether user want to run live cd or dorect installation06:15
Dheerajwithout running live cd06:15
Dheerajanother problem is with connecting gprs on it06:15
JsgmobWe dont have enough space on cd06:15
Dheeraji tried almost all the dialer including wvdial and kpppd06:16
ograyou cant have a live session and all the install packages on one CD06:16
ograthe DVD has this option btw06:16
Dheerajbut both disconnect net with in 2-3minute06:16
Dheerajthan pls think about shipping dvd06:16
JsgmobEekkkk06:17
Dheerajdvd writer and dvd rom price is now very cheap06:17
ograDheeraj, as i said, *most* edubuntu users dont have a DVD reader06:17
JsgmobNot in mass production though06:17
ogramost of our users are happy to have power06:17
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ograor a single phone line06:18
Dheerajthere should be some sollution06:18
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JsgmobGrab the dvd and distribute it ;)06:18
ograyes, the next solution down the road is to ship on two CDs 06:19
ograwhich puts the double amopunt of costs on us06:19
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^Ghost2Uanyone had probls with ltsp chroot build? (I have)06:19
ogra^Ghost2U, can you switch to console 4 (alt-F4) and have a look what exactly failed  ?06:20
ograor file a biug with /var/log/installer/syslog installed06:21
ogra*bug06:21
^Ghost2Uogra, I'm reinstalling from scratch right now... lets see what happens06:22
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ograwhich iso did you use ?06:22
=== ^Ghost2U changed cdrw drives and burned another copy of cd..
Dheeraji am currently using fedora 4 only coz i am not able to connect gprs on ubuntu :(06:23
^Ghost2Uogra: 6.06 edubuntu06:23
^Ghost2Uogra: install version06:24
^Ghost2Uogra: i38606:24
Dheerajis it a bug in wvdial or ubuntu?06:24
ograhmm, thats used b ymany many people06:24
ograso the install should just work06:25
Dheerajas wvdial is working fine on fedora06:25
ograat which speed did you write the CD ?06:25
^Ghost2Uogra: i think it may be my cdrw might be flaky, i burned at 8x06:25
jsgotangcoDheeraj: file a bug in the appropriate package unfortunately we dont have  a lot of testers on such methods06:25
ogra8x *should* be fine ... 06:25
Dheerajpower failure i'll b back later.06:26
^Ghost2Uogra: i read something in the older vers about burning at slower speeds, so i started there06:26
ograyeah06:26
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ograthat didnt change, the data on the iso is still compressed ... but 8x should really be ok06:27
jsgotangcoJeez typing with thumbs will most likely accelerate carpal tunnel06:27
^Ghost2Uogra: i had a similar problem installing under vmware 5.51 a few days ago.. got it to work, but shelved it, and using real h/w this time06:34
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Dheeraj_khere is the detail http://www.desi-tek.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=39807:12
Dheeraj_kwvdial error on ubuntu07:13
ograright, but this is surely the wrong channel to discuss it :)07:15
Dheeraj_kit is ocurring only on ubuntu and other distro of ubuntu07:15
Dheeraj_keg edubuntu, kubuntu07:16
ograright07:16
ografor support go to #ubuntu for this issue ... if you want it fixed, make sure to file a bug about it (unless there isnt one already)07:17
Dheeraj_kubuntu channel is full07:18
ograthat doesnt make this channel valid for general ubuntu support :)07:19
Dheeraj_kp81 member there and every 1 is just typing and typing no response07:20
Dheeraj_kp81 = 981 :)07:22
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cbx33i didn't know there was a limit on #ubuntu08:19
cbx33ogra, once the installer is confirmed ok...this is just a general question.....why do we need to test all variations of installing ubuntu?08:20
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