[12:34] <stelis> Hello?
[12:34] <pygi> hi stelis 
[12:34] <stelis> Hi
[12:35] <stelis> I read Richard J.'s blog entry, and was interested in helping with docs
[12:36] <stelis> Do you know who the best person to speak to is?
[12:36] <pygi> yes, me or Hedgemage
[12:36] <stelis> OK, cool.
[12:37] <pygi> nixternal: you brought a lot of people here ;)
[12:37] <nixternal> im hoping that is a good thing ;)
[12:37] <nixternal> stelis: are you familiar with Docbook?  SVN?
[12:37] <stelis> Yes to the first.
[12:38] <nixternal> don't worry if you say no, as that is fine
[12:38] <nixternal> oh wow, cool
[12:38] <stelis> FWIE, I've worked on OSS docs before
[12:38] <nixternal> that is a bonus then...great
[12:38] <nixternal> oh wow, even better!
[12:38] <nixternal> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Repository
[12:38] <stelis> But that was CVS rather than SVN.. I've got a checkout and built it though
[12:39] <nixternal> you can take a look there, as I have posted the docs on the doc svn repo...so it is easy to 'svn co dir/' to download them
[12:39] <nixternal> we are working out of the trunk/edubuntu/handbook/C/ directory
[12:39] <nixternal> if you grab the docs, and look in there, there are around 25 .xml files in there...you can view https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuHandbook/Management to get an idea of the layout
[12:39] <stelis> OK, I've got that, and a test Edubuntu Edgy setup
[12:40] <nixternal> p1-xxxx.xml would be Part 1, p2 part 2 and so on
[12:40] <nixternal> you are ready to rock and roll..the LTSP stuff is pretty much taken care of...part 2 that is....part 1, part 3, and part 4 are pretty much empty yet
[12:41] <nixternal> feel free to look around and see what you might be interested in helping out with
[12:41] <nixternal> im preparing a "presentation", 1 of the about 20 i have to give in the next week or so
[12:41] <pygi> nixternal: same here, lol :)
[12:41] <pygi> but you know that already :P
[12:41] <nixternal> ya..i have a cool one i did for a master slide layout
[12:42] <nixternal> im making a Kubuntu one, Ubuntu one, and Edubuntu one...and they look like the desktops
[12:42] <pygi> oh :P I forgot I could have given you OO.Impress templates
[12:42] <stelis> FWIW, I've got screenshots of the installation process
[12:43] <stelis> Vmware makes screendumps very easy
[12:43] <nixternal> thats worth a lot actually stelis, as it prevents us from having to do it
[12:43] <nixternal> i was going to do them with vmware as well, but you beat me to it ;)  thanks
[12:44] <stelis> I've done this before :)
[12:44] <stelis> I'll upload them to a server, and post a link in a sec
[12:51] <stelis> OK, screenshots: http://www.elsn.org/downloads/edubuntu/screenshots/
[12:52] <stelis> The numbers in the filenames indicate the sequence 
[12:53] <pygi> stelis: permissions pls :)
[12:53] <pygi> hehe
[12:55] <stelis> Gah, that bites me every time 
[12:56] <stelis> Fixed.
[12:57] <stelis> The screen resolutions are as Vmware grabs them...
[12:57] <pygi> all fine :)
[12:57] <stelis> So 640x480 for text-mode and 1024x768 for graphical screens, I think
[12:57] <stelis> Cool.
[12:58] <stelis> Windows has recursive permissions
[12:58] <stelis> I've never adjusted to Linux not doing it
[01:03] <stelis> OK... A really basic question: 
[01:03] <stelis> Target audience
[01:04] <stelis> I'm looking at the heading "Networks and Networking" and wondering how much knowledge can be assumed...
[01:04] <pygi> stelis: it's best to assume very trivial knowledge
[01:05] <stelis> Hmm...
[01:05] <pygi> not really "move your move over here...then click here..."
[01:05] <pygi> but for a regular Joe user
[01:06] <stelis> OK, so we may need to start with a link to explain terms like "IP address"?
[01:06] <pygi> lol, no :)
[01:06] <pygi> no, no, don't go with explaining what IP address is :)
[01:07] <pygi> let's assume they know the basic terms, ok? :)
[01:07] <stelis> To explain where I'm coming from...
[01:07] <stelis> I'm not sure whether the target is the professional IT technician
[01:08] <stelis> Or IT teachers
[01:08] <stelis> Whose knowledge is a bit more patchy
[01:09] <pygi> right, but we don't want to explain trivial things like IP address & stuff
[01:10] <stelis> Being *really* new to Edubuntu, I'm not sure who the adopters are 
[01:10] <pygi> well, it all depends if a school has an IT professional who will install the complete Informatics system, or is the teacher the one doing it
[01:12] <stelis> Is Edubuntu being used mostly on self-contained networks?
[01:12] <pygi> ehm, you mean no access to internet?
[01:13] <stelis> More WRT to how it interacts with the institutional network and the central management 
[01:14] <stelis> We have labs where central IT just provides IP addresses and walks away
[01:14] <stelis> and centrally managed ones
[01:14] <pygi> "central IT" as a person or what?!
[01:16] <stelis> I mean a central department and the management that they provide, like an LDAP directory and so on.
[01:16] <pygi> oh, well Edubuntu is actually a server ^_^
[01:16] <pygi> You run thin clients then --> pulling it from server's chroot
[01:19] <stelis> Where I work we have three workgroups which are independently managed by departmental people, who don't work for the main IT teams that run the rest of the network, and aren't necessarily IT professionals. 
[01:19] <stelis> Those workgroups have their own servers
[01:20] <stelis> OS X and Netware
[01:20] <stelis> But they rely on DNS managed centrally
[01:21] <stelis> I'm wondered if Edubuntu is used in that way
[01:22] <stelis> Or in smaller organizations where the Edubuntu system is pretty much the whole network
[01:22] <stelis> So it may have to run the DNS as well (for example)
[01:25] <stelis> I guess the question is: can you say "ask your network provider for <DNS/Proxy> settings", or whether you need to assume that the reader has to sort it out fro themselves.
[01:25] <pygi> you can ask that for a reader I guess
[01:29] <stelis> Sorry if this seemed like a dumb question - I think that what I'll do is try to write a draft on the assumption that the reader has an Internet connection of some kind already, and see where it goes from there.
[01:30] <pygi> stelis: feel free to mail me at mario dot danic at gmail dot com if you want me to help you with anything, or review, or whateva :)
[01:30] <pygi> there is no dumb questions...except the one not asked
[01:30] <stelis> Thanks - you've just preempted my next question :)
[01:31] <pygi> good :P
[01:31] <stelis> Can you give me an idea of the deadlines?
[01:32] <pygi> ASAP :P
[01:33] <stelis> I guess what I'm asking is the freeze date :)
[01:33] <pygi> hm....ASAP? :)
[01:33] <pygi> preety soon actually
[01:35] <stelis> My previous experience was that the docs had to be frozen at a point before the release to allow for translation etc. 
[01:35] <pygi> stelis: right, but we are already past that point
[01:35] <pygi> due to some circumstances
[01:35] <stelis> Ah
[01:36] <pygi> ah :)
[01:36] <stelis> OK - I've a suggestion
[01:36] <bddebian> Heya
[01:36] <stelis> Why not create a screencast or slideshow to walk new users through the process
[01:37] <pygi> hey bddebian :)
[01:37] <pygi> stelis: uh, uh, not now :)
[01:37] <bddebian> Hi pygi
[01:38] <stelis> My thought was it might be faster to make than the written documentation, you see
[01:38] <stelis> And then focus on the text after.
[01:39] <pygi> stelis: nop, we want the book :)
[01:39] <pygi> it is doable, trust me
[01:39] <pygi> I wrote one for dapper with hedgemage :)
[01:40] <stelis> I wrote for Fedora :)
[01:41] <stelis> A much smaller work, though :)
[01:44] <stelis> OK: if you like what I'll try to do is finish off part I (or at least a draft) in the next day or two
[01:44] <pygi> oki :)
[01:44] <stelis> I can probably also pick up part IV
[01:45] <stelis> I probably don't have the experience with LTSP to fill out the other sections.
[01:46] <stelis> Although I can probably write at least basic text for the update and security sections, if needs be.
[01:46] <pygi> stelis: no worries, I'm here to instruct and guide if needs be
[01:47] <stelis> Cheers. When I say that I'm new to LTSP...this is about day 4.
[01:49] <pygi> :)
[01:50] <stelis> It was great to realise that Edubuntu works out of the box, and that I'd didn't need to write my own dhcpd.conf just to get it started.  
[02:01] <pygi> :)
[02:03] <nixternal> sorry..getting ready to head to dinner...
[02:03] <nixternal> anyways, don't worry about the LTSP section, as it is already being handled
[02:04] <pygi> bon appetit nixternal :)
[02:04] <nixternal> part 3 and 4 need the loving ;)
[02:04] <nixternal> bon McDonalds ;)
[02:04] <pygi> hehe :P
[02:04] <stelis> :) 
[02:04] <nixternal> i have no clue what i said, except for McDonalds
[02:04] <pygi> good McDonalds :)
[02:04] <nixternal> I shall return, thanks stelis for your help!
[02:04] <nixternal> well, that is good ;)
[02:04] <pygi> that's what you said :)
[02:04] <nixternal> bbiab
[02:04] <pygi> oki, 2:06 am
[02:04] <stelis> Cheers
[02:04] <pygi> time for me to sleep if nobody needs me...
[02:05] <pygi> going once...
[02:05] <nixternal> pygi: 
[02:05] <pygi> going twice...
[02:05] <nixternal> hey pygi
[02:05] <pygi> sold!
[02:05] <nixternal> before you go
[02:05] <nixternal> are you still here?
[02:05] <pygi> yes?
[02:05] <nixternal> oh
[02:05] <nixternal> just wanted to say good night and see if you would stick around ;)
[02:05] <nixternal> hehe
[02:06] <pygi> ergh! :)
[02:06] <nixternal> haha
[02:06] <nixternal> g;nite
[02:06] <pygi> night
[05:31] <thompa> !xgl
[05:31] <ubotu> Compiz (compositing window manager) and XGL (X server architecture layered on top of OpenGL)  -  Howto at http://help.ubuntu.com/community/CompositeManager  -  Help in #ubuntu-xgl  -  See http://tinyurl.com/pw5ez for Kubuntu systems
[05:32] <thompa> anybody going to install edgy in school?
[09:33] <RichEd> hi cbx33 
[09:33] <cbx33> hey RichEd 
[09:33] <RichEd> jonathan1 / highvoltage : you there ?
[09:47] <cbx33> hey jono 
[09:47] <jono> hey cbx33 
[09:50] <RichEd> hey jono ...
[09:51] <jono>  hey RichEd 
[09:52] <RichEd> jono: We must chat soon about putting together a mini community agenda for UDS and AH ... been discussing with Matt Nazum
[09:52] <RichEd> have you planned any formal Community Slots or BOF sessions ?
[09:53] <jono> RichEd, yeah, I have been working on community slots over the last day or so - thinkabout what is needed
[09:53] <jono> RichEd, I am hoping to register them in LP later this week
[09:54] <RichEd> Great ... We would want at least one meeting with Matt Nazum and Philipp Schroder and yourself to explain our view of Education Community and the new space we are creating. Pop into here and give me a ping when you have 2 mins #ubuntu-education
[01:41] <jsgotangco> hey guys
[02:18] <pawman> Hi there can anyone help with networking
[02:55] <jsgotangco> ogra: http://toosa.oo-linux.com/cms/index.php/home/my_book
[02:58] <ogra> jsgotangco, WOW !
[03:01] <jsgotangco> it was just shown to me
[03:02] <jsgotangco> its from the indonesian team
[03:04] <ogra> thats very cool
[03:05] <luckyed> Cheerio! I'm having probs with the install cd of Edubuntu 6.10 Beta. Md5 checksum seems ok, but when I run a cd check or try to install a server, I get an error message about some files not found on the cd. Tried to download the iso twice and burned it with 8x speed the second time, but the error stays... Anyone else has experienced this or knows where to get a proper iso image???
[03:06] <ogra> if the Cd check fails but md5 is fine, you likely burned the CD to fast
[03:07] <ogra> try 4x
[03:07] <ogra> apart from that see the /topic for the download URL
[03:11] <luckyed> ogra: That's where I got the image, but it didn't work. Has anyone actually succeeded in installing from the install cd? Just wanna know...
[03:11] <ogra> (on all arches)
[03:12] <ogra> so yes, its working for me ... 
[03:12] <luckyed> OK, sounds convincing. I'll give it one more try! :)
[03:12] <ogra> and for various other testers as well
[03:12] <ogra> btw, the server install is whats on the ubuntu-server iso ... very likely not what you want 
[03:12] <ogra> (there is a translation error in the first Cd screen)
[03:13] <ogra> should be "commandline minimal install" instead 
[03:13] <ogra> if you want the edubuntu classroom server, just use the default item (install to HD or so)
[03:15] <luckyed> I'm actually writing from an installed version of edubuntu 6.10, but it's installed from the live cd and thus the ltsp stuff is not set up. And the ltsp packages in synaptic are the wrong ones, aren't they?
[03:16] <ogra> no
[03:16] <ogra> just dont use the ltsp-utils package (which should be gone from edgy anyway)
[03:16] <luckyed> ahem, and you're right, I meant the classroom server install, not the "server install", as I need gnome, too...
[03:16] <ogra> but the installer sets up a bunch of defaultsd you will miss if you install ltsp manually
[03:18] <luckyed> hmm, I thought so. Install cd is just burning with 4x this time..... let's see
[03:19] <luckyed> ah, and btw: Would it be possible to use the upgrade function from 6.10 to 6.10 without messing up the ltsp installation or anything else?
[03:19] <luckyed> 6.06. to 6.10....
[03:20] <luckyed> ...because I've got a running Edubuntu 6.06 server with ~500 active users and I'd like to have the transition to 6.10 as smooth as possible (understandingly:) 
[03:20] <ogra> well, i'd suggest to wipe the ltsp chroot then and rebuild it ... its only three commands
[03:21] <ogra> actually you could even try it with the ltsp-server/-standalone packages and build it manually
[03:21] <ogra> afterwards run: sudo dpkg-reconfigure -pcritical edubuntu-artwork
[03:22] <ogra> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall (afterwards == after you follwed that wikipage to get the initial setup)
[03:22] <luckyed> but then again, aren't a lot of packages still left from the old version that wouldn't be needed by 6.10? In this case I'd prefer a clean install
[03:22] <ogra> well, update-manager should care 
[03:23] <ogra> and edgy has a 2remove old cruft" feature in apt now
[03:24] <luckyed> I already tried to install the ltsp-server-standalone package and run ltsp-manager afterwards, but it gives me: (ltsp-manager:7072): libglade-WARNING **: could not find glade file './ltsp-manager.glade'
[03:24] <luckyed> Traceback (most recent call last):
[03:24] <luckyed>   File "/usr/bin/ltsp-manager", line 409, in ?
[03:24] <luckyed>     base = LTSPManager()
[03:24] <luckyed>   File "/usr/bin/ltsp-manager", line 18, in __init__
[03:24] <luckyed>     self.wTree=gtk.glade.XML ("./ltsp-manager.glade")
[03:24] <luckyed> RuntimeError: could not create GladeXML object
[03:25] <cbx33> ogra: is there a package for ltsp-manager?
[03:25] <luckyed> yes
[03:26] <ogra> cbx33, yes, but it still has no backend
[03:26] <cbx33> hmm....ahhh
[03:26] <ogra> so it wont do anything ... its only a gui
[03:26] <cbx33> that's what I thought...
[03:26] <cbx33> sorry coming in on the tail end of this conversation
[03:26] <ogra> and i'm still working on gui parts here
[03:26] <cbx33> right
[03:26] <ogra> (havent pushed the changes for quite somne time)
[03:27] <cbx33> ogra: did you want a hand on it?
[03:27] <ogra> sure, but lets have a spec first 
[03:27] <cbx33> well, the only reason I said it was....I have a week off next week, because it's half term I am allowed to take holiday, so I may have some spare time to work on things
[03:28] <cbx33> pessulus/SCP seems fixed now
[03:29] <ogra> i'll be busy as hello next week ... including no sleep for some days to test the final iso etc
[03:29] <cbx33> ok
[03:29] <cbx33> did you want a hand with any of that
[03:29] <ogra> sure
[03:29] <cbx33> I can only test in vm's as I'll be without the hardware I have at work
[03:29] <ogra> help testing :)
[03:30] <ogra> thats why we have the qemu support built in, even vm's will be fine for install tests
[03:31] <cbx33> ok sure
[03:51] <bddebian> Heya
[05:05] <sbalneav> Morning all!
[05:05] <RichEd> hi sbalneav :)
[05:05] <sbalneav> Hello RichEd
[05:24] <highvoltage> RichEd: here now
[05:27] <RichEd> highvoltage: thanks -> msg window
[06:01] <Dheeraj> hi wat package is available on edubuntu?
[06:02] <Dheeraj> does it has all dev package?
[06:02] <Dheeraj> eg c++ ide, eclipse etc?
[06:02] <ogra> it has *all* packages ubuntu has
[06:03] <ogra> (available that is ... there is no compiler installed by default)
[06:03] <Dheeraj> is it same as ubuntu?
[06:04] <stgraber> all the ubuntu (ubuntu/kubuntu/edubuntu ...) use the same packages and the same repositories
[06:04] <ogra> yes, but with a different set of default packages, different artwork and a ltsp setup out of the box for classrooms
[06:04] <stgraber> that's just the package installed by default that are differents
[06:04] <ogra> well and the installer 
[06:04] <Dheeraj> i thought i'll get all dev tool with that
[06:05] <ogra> sure you can ... but they wont be there directly after install ...
[06:05] <Dheeraj> that means i'll have to download those packages?
[06:05] <ogra> but there are more than 17000 packages ... including all the dev tools you can install directly afterwards
[06:06] <ogra> you have to strt up your package manager and select what you want ...
[06:06] <ogra> same as in ubuntu
[06:06] <Dheeraj> but most of the package is going to be downloaded from net right?
[06:07] <ogra> well, the compilert itself is on the CD ...
[06:07] <ogra> *compiler
[06:07] <stgraber> It depends of the one that are on the CD/DVD you use
[06:07] <ogra> but if you want to do development, you surely need libraries etc
[06:07] <ogra> these have to come froim the net
[06:08] <ogra> we'd have to ship on several DVDs if we'd ship all the devel packages
[06:08] <Dheeraj> why they don't ship all the package?
[06:08] <Dheeraj> not every body have high speed net connection
[06:08] <ogra> not everybody has a DVD reader either
[06:09] <ogra> so we cant ship DVDs
[06:09] <ogra> since we send out the CDs fro free, we cant afford to press more than one CD
[06:09] <Dheeraj> than all in 4-5cd ?
[06:09] <ogra> and you only get so much packages into 700MB
[06:10] <Dheeraj> i recently odered 40 cd and distributed it among my friends :)
[06:10] <ogra> we'll discuss having a second CD in mountain view at the conference in november ....
[06:10] <ogra> so probably edgy+1 will be a 2 CD distro (for edubuntu at least)
[06:11] <ogra> but its very unlikely that we'll fill up the space with development packages
[06:11] <Dheeraj> and i know many ppl who use to order 10 cd but they don't even use a single 1
[06:11] <Dheeraj> best idea is allowing user whether they want all package or limited 1
[06:12] <stgraber> ogra: Is the possiblity to have the normal installer (not the graphical one) included on the CD also in the things you have to discuss ? (I had 10-15 people that had some problem to install with the Install/Live CD and only 128MB of ram)
[06:12] <ogra> well, not if you have technical limitations 
[06:12] <ogra> i.e. 1.4Gb of space on two CDs isnt much 
[06:13] <Dheeraj> yeah thats a majour problem
[06:13] <ogra> stgraber, the LiveCD pretty clear states that it needs *at least* 256M
[06:13] <ogra> thats one reason why we still use the non live CD for our default install in edubuntu
[06:14] <Dheeraj> even i faced the problem while installing it on my pc 
[06:14] <Dheeraj> p4 with 256mb ram
[06:14] <ogra> so we can support smaller footprints
[06:14] <Dheeraj> than i installed it on safe graphic mode
[06:15] <Dheeraj> there should be option whether user want to run live cd or dorect installation
[06:15] <Dheeraj> without running live cd
[06:15] <Dheeraj> another problem is with connecting gprs on it
[06:15] <Jsgmob> We dont have enough space on cd
[06:16] <Dheeraj> i tried almost all the dialer including wvdial and kpppd
[06:16] <ogra> you cant have a live session and all the install packages on one CD
[06:16] <ogra> the DVD has this option btw
[06:16] <Dheeraj> but both disconnect net with in 2-3minute
[06:16] <Dheeraj> than pls think about shipping dvd
[06:17] <Jsgmob> Eekkkk
[06:17] <Dheeraj> dvd writer and dvd rom price is now very cheap
[06:17] <ogra> Dheeraj, as i said, *most* edubuntu users dont have a DVD reader
[06:17] <Jsgmob> Not in mass production though
[06:17] <ogra> most of our users are happy to have power
[06:18] <ogra> or a single phone line
[06:18] <Dheeraj> there should be some sollution
[06:18] <Jsgmob> Grab the dvd and distribute it ;)
[06:19] <ogra> yes, the next solution down the road is to ship on two CDs 
[06:19] <ogra> which puts the double amopunt of costs on us
[06:19] <^Ghost2U> anyone had probls with ltsp chroot build? (I have)
[06:20] <ogra> ^Ghost2U, can you switch to console 4 (alt-F4) and have a look what exactly failed  ?
[06:21] <ogra> or file a biug with /var/log/installer/syslog installed
[06:21] <ogra> *bug
[06:22] <^Ghost2U> ogra, I'm reinstalling from scratch right now... lets see what happens
[06:22] <ogra> which iso did you use ?
[06:23] <Dheeraj> i am currently using fedora 4 only coz i am not able to connect gprs on ubuntu :(
[06:23] <^Ghost2U> ogra: 6.06 edubuntu
[06:24] <^Ghost2U> ogra: install version
[06:24] <^Ghost2U> ogra: i386
[06:24] <Dheeraj> is it a bug in wvdial or ubuntu?
[06:24] <ogra> hmm, thats used b ymany many people
[06:25] <ogra> so the install should just work
[06:25] <Dheeraj> as wvdial is working fine on fedora
[06:25] <ogra> at which speed did you write the CD ?
[06:25] <^Ghost2U> ogra: i think it may be my cdrw might be flaky, i burned at 8x
[06:25] <jsgotangco> Dheeraj: file a bug in the appropriate package unfortunately we dont have  a lot of testers on such methods
[06:25] <ogra> 8x *should* be fine ... 
[06:26] <Dheeraj> power failure i'll b back later.
[06:26] <^Ghost2U> ogra: i read something in the older vers about burning at slower speeds, so i started there
[06:26] <ogra> yeah
[06:27] <ogra> that didnt change, the data on the iso is still compressed ... but 8x should really be ok
[06:27] <jsgotangco> Jeez typing with thumbs will most likely accelerate carpal tunnel
[06:34] <^Ghost2U> ogra: i had a similar problem installing under vmware 5.51 a few days ago.. got it to work, but shelved it, and using real h/w this time
[07:12] <Dheeraj_k> here is the detail http://www.desi-tek.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=398
[07:13] <Dheeraj_k> wvdial error on ubuntu
[07:15] <ogra> right, but this is surely the wrong channel to discuss it :)
[07:15] <Dheeraj_k> it is ocurring only on ubuntu and other distro of ubuntu
[07:16] <Dheeraj_k> eg edubuntu, kubuntu
[07:16] <ogra> right
[07:17] <ogra> for support go to #ubuntu for this issue ... if you want it fixed, make sure to file a bug about it (unless there isnt one already)
[07:18] <Dheeraj_k> ubuntu channel is full
[07:19] <ogra> that doesnt make this channel valid for general ubuntu support :)
[07:20] <Dheeraj_k> p81 member there and every 1 is just typing and typing no response
[07:22] <Dheeraj_k> p81 = 981 :)
[08:19] <cbx33> i didn't know there was a limit on #ubuntu
[08:20] <cbx33> ogra, once the installer is confirmed ok...this is just a general question.....why do we need to test all variations of installing ubuntu?