/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2006/10/17/#kubuntu-devel.txt

SimeZzzzz12:13
Simecya12:13
osloi didn't manage to use screenkast to make videos of my desktop12:14
oslo???12:15
DaSkreechOh?12:16
DaSkreechWhy not?12:16
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ryanakcaKDE4 bugs are reported where? bugs.kde.org or launchpad.net?12:34
Riddellbugs.kde.org12:35
ryanakcakk12:35
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ryanakcawill export KDEDIR=/usr/lib/kde4  apply/affect kmenu? or just apps run from that konsole12:37
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kwwiiRiddell: what is the time-frame for including usplash artwork12:44
kwwii?12:44
kwwiinote that ubuntu received an exception to include new artwork pretty much everywhere12:45
Riddellkwwii: not sure, what do you want to change?12:45
Riddellkwwii: do you know anything about the KDE patron logo?12:45
kwwiiI would like to make the progress bar in the kubuntu usplash look similar to the ubuntu usplash version12:46
kwwiinope, I saw a mail about it with Nuno saying he would do it or such12:46
Riddellkwwii: commit it to bzr and I'll see if I can upload12:46
kwwiior am I crazy?12:46
Riddellhmm, Nuno denied all knowledge12:46
kwwiihehe12:47
kwwiithen nobody is doing it12:47
Riddellgroovy, I'll ask the board what's going on with it12:47
kwwiithere is also an open request for a KDE ev logo12:47
kwwiiI mean, how many kde logos can one make12:47
kwwii?12:48
Riddellwell e.v. and patron should be variants of the KDE logo12:48
Riddelljust some text in the right place would be fine12:48
kwwiithat is my opinion too12:48
osloDaSkreech?12:48
DaSkreechSkreenkast?12:49
osloya12:49
osloi got an isdnvcserver error12:49
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DaSkreechvnc eh?12:49
oslowhen i tried to reachit, & when i start it i see nothing new12:49
kwwiiRiddell: send an email to the board and include all@oxygen-icons.org in CC with these thoughts12:50
kwwii(just so they notice it, david and nuno are both members but they rarely read the list12:50
kwwii)12:50
=== DaSkreech still votes for an optional one that shows progress :)
kwwiiartists are wierd people...sometimes I think I am the most normal of all :-)12:51
kwwiiI bet that would scare some people12:52
Jucatoheh :)12:52
Riddellkwwii: let me know when you commit to bzr12:52
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kwwiiRiddell: it will probably be tomorrow as I talked one of the ubuntu artists into doing it, he mentioned it would take a while12:54
Riddelldelegation!  excellent12:54
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kwwiifunnily enough, the ubuntu artists are really keen on working on kubuntu atm12:55
Riddellexcellent12:56
DaSkreechCool12:56
DaSkreechRiddell got a lot of buzz this week12:57
kwwiiI thought that the progess bar in the usplash is a good place to start unifying thing12:57
kwwiis12:57
kwwii:-)12:57
Jucatokool! more artists for Kubuntu :)12:58
kwwiiI was lucky to have had time working on dapper artwork to understand the system behind things....I think that the new stuff will hopefully interest a few new artists12:59
kwwiikubuntu enjoys many freedoms that ubuntu does not 12:59
DaSkreechGo K!01:00
DaSkreechFreeedommmmmmmm01:00
Jucatoand Kubuntu is lucky to have kwwii on the team for Edgy. really really nice :)01:01
kwwiithanks :-)01:02
kwwiithe point is that is has to lead somewhere01:03
kwwiibut good artists are so hard to come by01:03
kwwiianyway....01:04
kwwiitime for sleep01:04
DaSkreechNight01:04
Jucatonight! :)01:04
kwwiinight all01:04
Jucatobtw, just out of curiousity, when is Kubuntu's birthday?01:04
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ryanakcahmmm.... no clue... not on the wiki?01:08
jjesseJucato: its the day that Riddell posted his blog entry about wanting to help w/ ubuntu01:08
jjessehttp://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/59101:10
Riddellnote how I cleverly search engine optimised the title of that blog :)01:10
jjessestill the first entry for google search: jonathan riddell and ubuntu01:11
ryanakcalol01:11
Riddellused to be first for ubuntu :)01:11
=== ryanakca wonders about ubuntu rescue floppy...
DaSkreechYeah I remember that01:11
ryanakcaubuntu version of tomsrtbt :)01:12
DaSkreechRiddell: Do we care that Edubuntu is excising the KDE apps?01:12
RiddellDaSkreech: yes, but I don't really blame them01:13
DaSkreechWell seeing as most of the Edu apps are KDE I'd think they would want to excise Gnome :(01:14
Riddellthat would be a logical approach01:16
DaSkreechah well01:16
Jucatojjesse: oh thanks :)01:17
Jucatoso that would make Kubuntu's birthday Aug. 28, 2004?01:17
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ryanakcaheh... 01:23
=== ryanakca wonders why we didn't have e-cake and e-balloons and e-banners and a big b-day party :D
Jucatoprobably being 2 years old isn't worth a big celebration just yet?01:26
DaSkreechThat's e-kake01:26
ryanakcaRiddell: would white around klippers' icon in the systray and around the ok/cancel pics on their respective buttons count as a bug? or would it just be style/theme problems?01:26
ryanakcalol01:26
Riddellryanakca: sounds like a bug01:27
ryanakcakk01:27
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bddebianHeya01:36
DaSkreechHi01:36
ryanakcahey bddebian01:36
bddebianHello DaSkreech, ryanakca01:37
DaSkreechCan someone give some X help on edgy in the main chan?01:37
ryanakcaI can try :)01:41
DaSkreechryanakca: Hooray01:42
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DaSkreechnixternal: I'm going to ponder it some more this weel03:14
DaSkreechk03:14
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jjesseoin #ichthux-devel04:09
Jucatoheheh :)04:09
jjessedoh04:10
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HawkwindAhhh, finally got xchat-2.6.8 to build for dapper and Edgy as it was just released today :)05:00
Jucatonice one.05:01
HawkwindOhh!  Good mornin` sir Jucato!05:01
HawkwindI've had my head stuck in deb and rpm building.  Didn't see ya come in :P05:01
Jucatocome in? I've been here for 4 hours now :P05:01
HawkwindI was playing darts for a while.  Then helping Liz with insurance choices.  Then got right back to building KDE rpms and xchat debs05:02
Jucatoah05:03
=== Jucato wonders if Xchat automatically updates on Windows :P
HawkwindNope05:04
HawkwindThere is no new Windows version though today :P05:05
HawkwindWindows is still at 2.6.7 and Linux is now at 2.6.805:05
Jucatoyeah05:05
HawkwindI've got a free official build since I've done quite a bit of work, features requests and all for Xchat.  So my dad gets to use the official version on his PC05:05
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ZeroCoolwhen will they fix the system Monitor & Display issue08:06
nixternalwhat is the issue ZeroCool?08:09
ZeroCoolwell, its like this: when opening system setting and selecting monitors & display, it tell me that it can't load the module due to.. 08:15
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ZeroCoolits late... zzzzzzzzzzzzz08:20
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SimeTonio_: I've found the audiocd problem. Patches tonight. Some kind of behavour difference between 3.5.4 and 3.5.5.08:44
imbrandonSime, rockin08:51
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LureSime: is there a bug opened? If we want this in Edgy, we need to target it for the release 09:13
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LureRiddell: what is going on with kubuntu.org (website and repositories)?09:20
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LureRiddell: just fyi - I had to run apt-get -f install to install koffice 1.6 correctly http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27070/10:27
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freeflyingimbrandon: arounds?11:31
imbrandonfreeflying, wasup11:32
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Tonio_Sime: you rock !12:18
=== Jucato wonders what Sime did this time :)
SimeLure: I don't know. If there is one let me know and I will mention it in my changelog.12:19
Tonio_Sime: bah you fixed the issue hehe :)12:20
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rideoutRiddell: ping01:18
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Riddellhi rideout 02:31
rideoutRiddell: the qt4 you uploaded had a build failure, but infinity and dholbach are on it, after i discovered the culprit02:35
Riddellyeah, just been looking at that02:35
Riddellqmake really is crap for make clean02:36
rideoutRiddell: i have about one hour more that i can spend on helping with edgy, any suggests, should i just head off to malone?02:38
Riddellyou could tell me if bug 66442 is an issue02:39
UbugtuMalone bug 66442 in kdebase "No keyboard layouts available in settings after upgrade to kde 3.5.5" [Undecided,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/6644202:39
rideoutok, i'll check it out02:39
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rideoutit was for me, when i first upgraded to edgy a few weeks ago, i had to manually set up a symlink, i'll delete the xkb folders and reinstall to see if works now02:41
Riddellrideout: how did you fix qt4?02:43
Riddellah, your e-mail says02:44
rideoutyeah02:48
rideoutRiddell: what packaged should be in charge of /usr/share/X11/xkb ?02:49
Riddellxkb-data?02:50
Riddellat least that's what does /etc/X11/xkb/02:50
Riddellbut presumably we want to change KDE to use the correct /etc/X11/xkb/ location02:51
rideoutyep, apt-file didn't say though02:51
rideouti just was being thourough in my investigation02:53
rideoutthe location changed with xorg 6.9/7.0 to 7.1 i think, i'll have to check02:53
Riddellso nothing should have changed for kde 3.5.502:54
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MidMarkma salva un cookie?03:01
MidMarksorry03:01
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rideoutRiddell: kde changed the order of the paths it seached from /etc/X11/, to /usr/share/X11/ first03:03
rideouta function looks in a list of directories and the first one with an xkb subdirectory it sees it uses it03:04
rideouthttp://websvn.kde.org/tags/KDE/3.5.4/kdebase/kxkb/x11helper.cpp?rev=565692&view=markup03:04
rideouthttp://websvn.kde.org/tags/KDE/3.5.5/kdebase/kxkb/x11helper.cpp?rev=591452&view=markup03:05
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rideoutRiddell: power failure, i'm back03:16
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rideoutRiddell: we have a few options, but the best is just to change kde's behaviour back to 3.5.403:18
mhbhi all03:18
Riddellrideout: that sounds like the best thing to do03:18
rideouti'll send you a diff in a minute or so03:19
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Tonio_Riddell: I don't find kdebindings 3.5.5 on launchpad... any url ?03:47
Tonio_Riddell: os does it need packaging ?03:48
Tonio_https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+source/kdebindings that's all I can find03:48
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rideoutRiddell: http://ats-pos.com/tmp/kdebase_3.5.5-0ubuntu4.diff.gz03:49
bddebianHowdy03:51
Tonio_yo bddebian03:53
bddebianHi Tonio_03:54
Tonio_Riddell: current package fails on configure (gcj detection), want me to fix this or upgrade to 3.5.5 ?03:55
Jucatohi bddebian 03:56
bddebianHello Jucato03:59
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ZeroCoolThought I would ask, is there a secure method of deletion of folder with files, & files..eg: .xls .html .doc..etc04:17
rideoutZeroCool: secure meaning, that they can't be recovered by someone who knows what their doing?04:19
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ZeroCoolrideout did you get that04:25
rideoutZeroCool: no04:29
ZeroCoolYes, secure delete NO-ONE can recover it, NO-ONE nor NO-Thing Gone forever...04:30
rideoutZeroCool: i've sent you some ideas and solutions in private chat04:38
RiddellTonio_: you can try 3.5.5 if you want but it didn't work for me04:39
Tonio_Riddell: I'm just building, let's see what happens04:40
Tonio_Riddell: I was thinking about the view mode switcher button in konq.... lots of people seem to prefer the 3 buttons mode, since that allow quick switch between several views04:41
Tonio_Riddell: I know you don't want to have too many buttons in the bar, and I just found this :http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php?content=47354&PHPSESSID=7b6de2894cebccf264d5d4e6edb86a4e04:41
ZeroCoolrideout: got them, however I try to sent some messages back, but they where block , some spam filter is on.04:41
JucatoTonio_: they prefer the 3 buttons over your single button solution?04:41
Tonio_stop/reload button merged, so that switching back to 3 modes button would only cost one more button than now04:42
RiddellTonio_: something to look at04:42
Tonio_Jucato: looks like yes, especially for quick change04:42
Tonio_Riddell: yes, that's of course for edgy+1, but I'm starting collecting ideas04:42
JucatoTonio_: they're crazy, then! :P04:42
Jucatodoesn't Opera merge the stop/reload button, too?04:43
Tonio_Jucato: bah, I can understanf the point when you switch very often, 3 buttons (at least 2 makes sense04:43
Tonio_Jucato: yes opera does, and that's a good idea in my opinion04:43
rideoutZeroCool: no filters on my side04:43
Jucatohm... but if you switch very often, wouldn't keyboard shortcuts be even faster? oh well :)04:43
Tonio_the point is having 3 buttons isn't that a problem if we reduce the bar space usage on the oposite side04:44
Tonio_Jucato: bah they like clicking :)04:44
ZeroCoolit must be on my side.. odd04:44
Jucatolol04:44
Tonio_Jucato: but there are at least 2 launchpad bugs, confirmed by lots of people, that ask for 3 buttons back....04:44
JucatoTonio_: and I presume they seen/tried the single button solution you made?04:45
Tonio_Jucato: sure04:45
Jucatoah ok :)04:45
Tonio_Riddell: strange indeed.... it doesn't find libgcj.so, in libgcj7-dev, installed by builddep java-gcj-compat-dev04:47
Tonio_doesn't make sense.......04:47
Riddellthat's why I didn't update to 3.5.504:47
Tonio_Riddell: I'll investigate toonight...04:51
Tonio_Riddell: the amazing thing is that 3.5.4 ftbfs too04:51
Tonio_it build before but fails, probably due to 3.5.5 deps04:51
Tonio_Riddell: I confirm libgcj.so isn't in /usr/lib during the build...... let's understand why...04:58
ZeroCoolnow, for the major problem: is there a fix for going into system, select monitor & display ?05:00
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rideoutZeroCool: user questions for #kubuntu05:01
ZeroCooloh, thought this was also reporting bugs05:02
Tonio_Riddell: libgcj7-dev content has changed... /usr/lib/gcc/i486-linux-gnu/4.1.2/libgij.so -> ../../../libgij.so.7005:05
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Tonio_that's probably an issue in the package I assume05:05
rideoutZeroCool: malone is for bugs, but yes, this is for discussing them, what what is wrong with monitor & display ?05:05
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RiddellTonio_: I seem to remember that even if I manually added the libgij.so symlink it failed later on05:06
ZeroCoolgoto: system setting, select monitor & display, get message, saying module could not load05:06
Tonio_Riddell: ah ?05:07
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Tonio_Riddell: but should we fix libgcj7-dev first ? that'll probably impact lots of packages no ?05:08
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RiddellTonio_: doko may have had a reason for removing it05:11
rideoutZeroCool: that is an issue either with kde-guidance or python, are you using edgy or dapper?05:11
ZeroCoolusing edgy 6.10 05:12
Tonio_Riddell: hum probably...05:12
Tonio_Riddell: I'm trying to add the symlink during the build process05:12
Tonio_we'll see what happens05:12
Riddellyou can't do that, only root can do that05:14
Riddellunless you mean build of libgij05:14
sebasZeroCool: Can you try "kcmshell displayconfig" please?05:14
sebasThat gives meaningful errors in the best case.05:14
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ZeroCoolyeah, its the same error fail to load monitor & display module05:16
ZeroCoolImportError: No module named displayconfig05:16
ZeroCoolerror: ***failed to import module05:16
ZeroCoolrick@KB32bit:~$    05:16
dinosaur-rusI have problems with compiling 32-bit apps that use X Window system (Wine, particularly)05:18
sebasHm, it doesn't even find it.05:19
sebasSo python-related stuff is OK.05:19
nixternalhrmm...i thought that error was gone05:20
=== sebas shoves the bug in the direction of nixternal.
nixternalit went away for me almost 2 weeks ago i would say05:21
=== nixternal shoves the bug back ;)
=== nixternal checks his system settings
nixternalworks here05:22
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ZeroCoolsebas, what do you think about the error05:22
nixternalZeroCool: i am willing to bet that User Management and Disk & Filesystems is bad as well05:22
ZeroCool??05:22
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nixternalin system settings, check user management and see if you get that same error05:22
ZeroCooluser managment YES, bad05:23
nixternalsame with advanced Disk & Filesystems05:23
ZeroCoolDISK & Filesystem too, YES BAD05:23
nixternaland there is another one that is bad as well in the advanced section, however i can't remember what it is05:23
ZeroCoolokay, what up05:23
ZeroCoolas they say05:23
nixternalhehe05:24
ZeroCoolsomeone fell asleep in the last distro05:24
nixternalrecent updates fixed this for me05:24
ZeroCooldid all mine.. nope05:24
nixternali think it was due to a muckup in a apt-get upgrade05:24
ZeroCoolaptitude update05:24
ZeroCoolevery hour05:25
nixternalya, well that will keep her up to date for sure05:25
sebasZeroCool: I'm ignorant. It's a packaging issue.05:25
nixternalim checking my logs to try and see when mine was fixed05:25
nixternallol sebas, you are far from ignorant05:25
ZeroCoolk,05:25
sebasAre you running some strange thing, amd64, ppc or something?05:25
sebasnixternal: If you say so :)05:25
nixternalhehe05:26
ZeroCoolnope, drop that 64bit stuff, running straight i38605:26
nixternalwell, someone else had the same issue with ppc when i had it with i38605:26
=== sebas goes home to have dinner that's called like a disease.
ZeroCoolthere where more issues with 64bit05:26
sebasAlogobie05:26
=== sebas runs out.
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ZeroCoolso, how come nixternal system is working and ours are not?05:27
rideoutZeroCool: i had similar issues and the problem for me was python, i reinstalled all my python-* stuff and it worked05:27
ZeroCoolpyton ? you mean reload python itself05:27
nixternalya, it was python related...a python-central error i believe05:27
ZeroCoolokay, give me the command line snytax to re-install all the python stuff05:28
rideouti had to manually delete /usr/share/python-support/ and reinstall for it all to work05:28
ZeroCooland then05:29
ZeroCoolwouldn't this break other packages, that have python libs05:29
Tonio_Riddell: I removed patch 040-configure-give-kde_java_libgcjdir.diff05:30
rideoutZeroCool: it did in my case for some python programs, like meld, but not others05:30
Tonio_Riddell: that helped passing the configure correctly....05:30
Tonio_the build is going on, let's see what happens05:30
RiddellTonio_: cross fingers05:30
ZeroCoolman, I not looking to do a hack, or hack / patch to the system05:31
nixternalhttps://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kde-guidance/+bug/6222305:31
UbugtuMalone bug 62223 in kde-guidance "Monitor & Display, User Management, Disk & Filesystems - All Broken" [Undecided,Fix released]  05:31
nixternalthere is that bugger05:31
dinosaur-rushmmm, can anyone help me with my problem?05:32
rideoutdinosaur-rus: what is your problem?05:32
ZeroCoolthey have not fix it...05:32
dinosaur-rusrideout: I have problems with compiling 32-bit apps that use X Window system (Wine, particularly) - linker looks in /usr/lib with 64-bit libraries05:33
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rideoutZeroCool: do you have python 2.3,2.4 or 2.5 installed, you should at lease have 2.4...05:33
rideoutdinosaur-rus: i don't know how to work with 32/64 bit stuff, good luck!05:35
ZeroCoolwhat is that pyton -v ( for version )05:35
ZeroCoolpyhon05:35
ZeroCoolpython05:35
ZeroCoolone more time... is it python -v05:35
dinosaur-rusrideout: it's the linker problem... :P05:36
ZeroCoolgot python 2.4.4 installed05:36
rideoutZeroCool: what do you get for ls /usr/bin/python*05:37
ZeroCoolhmm, don't know if I did this right, but no file or directory05:41
ZeroCoolI get this: /usr/bin/python ( back )05:42
rideoutrun "ls /usr/bin/python*" 05:43
rideoutwithout the qoutes05:43
ZeroCoolk05:45
ZeroCoolgot this /usr/bin/python  /usr/bin/python2.405:46
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Tonio_Riddell: still building :) cross fingers with me !!05:49
Tonio_I really wonder why we ship kaudiocreator and kscd... they duplicate amarok, kaffeine K3B05:51
Riddellwhat's duplicated?05:52
Tonio_and kaudiocreator is really slow (40 min to rip a cd while k3B takes 4 minutes) and has no gui tools to configure encoding settings....05:52
Tonio_kaudiocreator -> ripping a cd can be done with konqueror, k3b, kaffeine05:52
Tonio_and honnestly, kaudiocretor is nasty to configure, and amazingly slow...05:52
Tonio_and kscd duplicated amarok who can read audiocds very easilly too05:53
Tonio_Riddell: http://www.google.fr/search?q=kaudiocreator+slow&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8 and speed issues in kaudiocreator are whidely known...05:53
ZeroCoolrideout: you got it python 2.405:54
Tonio_Riddell: build successfull :)05:54
Tonio_Riddell: hehe05:54
Tonio_Riddell: can I ping mdz or kamion directly or does it need uvf er ?05:54
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mhbRiddell: any progress with the bugs I keep bugging about? :o)06:00
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Tonio_Riddell: according to mdz it is too late to upgrade to 35506:05
Tonio_Riddell: I'm fixing 354 package since the fix is the same06:05
JucatoTonio_: does that mean Edgy will be released with KDE 3.5.4 only?06:06
Tonio_Jucato: no that concerns kdebindings06:07
Jucatoah ok. :)06:07
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LureTonio_: I agree - we should have kubuntu-simplify-multimedia spec for edgy+106:12
LureTonio_: we should look complete picture (from media players, rippers, browser plugins...)06:13
Tonio_Lure: yeah, 2 ripping solutions are enought06:13
Tonio_konqueror is very easy and a bit slow, and k3b is more complicated but powerfull and performant06:14
Tonio_that's enough in my opinion06:14
Tonio_if I could I would even patch kaffeine to remove the ripping options06:14
ZeroCoolfabo: got the url link: can't post replies as of yet, how does one install this..06:15
LureTonio_: yep, duplication is an issue in FOSS ;-)06:15
LureTonio_: but we have at least a choice ;-)06:15
Tonio_Lure: hehe, yes :)06:15
Tonio_Lure: you are there in uds no ? we can discuss this then06:15
LureTonio_: yep, I am there06:15
Tonio_Lure: okay let's book this then !06:16
faboZeroCool: i'm testing it right now on my edgy06:16
Tonio_Lure: and also we need to free space on the cd because that'll handicap further development06:17
ZeroCoolk, how does one install it...06:17
Tonio_that's something we have to discuss too, and removing duplication is one of the solutions06:17
LureTonio_: true, but kscd and kaudiocreator does not bring us much (I already checked last time when we discussed digikamplugins)06:17
faboZeroCool: dpkg -i kde-guidance_0.7.0-1ubuntu1_i386.deb06:18
faboZeroCool: wait, i test it before you screw up your system :)06:18
Tonio_Lure: well for example we don't ship imagemagik which is required for certain kipi-plugins options06:20
Tonio_Lure: kaudiocreator + kscd size is the same than imagemagik :)06:20
Tonio_that's what I would do for example06:20
=== Lure -> home - bbl
Tonio_Lure: seya06:20
Tonio_Lure: I'll probably write a spec concerning multimedia simplication06:21
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faboZeroCool: seems okk for me06:26
faboZeroCool: you can try to install :)06:27
Tonio_fabo: just saw your transcode package, we need that in universe !06:28
Tonio_fabo: can you ping us to revu it at the very begining of edgy+1 dev cycle ?06:28
faboTonio_: sure06:28
Tonio_fabo: just concerning the build options, will that go in multiverse or not ?06:29
fabofabo: universe06:29
Tonio_I think you built it with the maximum formats enabled didn't you ?06:29
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Tonio_fabo: ah ? it only recommends mencoder and other binaries then ?06:29
Tonio_I don't remember the complete packaging06:30
faboyes, i used all package available06:30
Tonio_fabo: then it you have deps on multiverse components, it'll go in multiverse06:30
faboi've doen a readme with format supported06:30
fabodone06:30
Tonio_fabo: well we'll make a point when we can upload it ;) but I really would like to have that in the repos06:31
faboTonio_: i'm packaging also another alternative -> soundkonverter06:32
faboZeroCool: i'm leaving in approximatively 5 minutes) could you confirm bug resolution plz :)06:33
Tonio_fabo: I have already done a package for this no ?06:33
Tonio_maybe it is not up to date now we're in freeze, but you should use my package as a base06:34
Tonio_it is in multiverse06:34
faboTonio_: already done :) it is based on yours, then sync'ed with mine :p06:34
Tonio_fabo: you are the man :)06:34
Tonio_fabo: I just noticed I was included in kde-extra debian team during introduction in akademy ;)06:35
Tonio_that surprised me since I never uploaded anything to debian (although I regularly contact debian maintainers to get my changes in)06:35
faboTonio_: ah i wasn't aware, i was really busy since akademy06:36
Tonio_fabo: hehe, that just surprized me to see my name on the pdf document...06:37
Tonio_maybe I was in because lots of my changes have been added to debian packages I don't know...06:37
Tonio_allee: I'll subscribe to alioth toonight, for info (finally)06:37
faboyou've got a link to the pdf, i didn't read it yet06:37
Tonio_fabo: let me find it06:38
Tonio_fabo: http://conference2006.kde.org/conference/slides/debian_kde_extras_aKademy2006.pdf06:39
alleeTonio_: we'll see ;)06:39
bobesponjadoes anyone know why I get little square instead of quotes ' ?06:40
bobesponjalike this http://p80.free.fr/konqy.png06:40
bobesponjaI'm on 3.5.5 with edgy06:40
Tonio_allee: when I promiss something I do it :) I never promissed till now06:40
Riddellabattoir: just did a complete oem install, works beautifully06:41
alleeTonio_: :)06:41
Tonio_allee: well it looks like I'm already considered as part of the kde-extra team somehow (don't ask me why but that's it) so I need an account now ;)06:41
abattoirRiddell: great :)06:41
DaSkreechHow does Debian Firefox/Thunderbird affect Ubuntu?06:41
Jucatolol! didn't know abattoir was not "away" :)06:42
Tonio_allee: look at the pdf, "Team" section.... I don't understand that, but that's it ;)06:42
alleeTonio_: are you this 'forgotten his name' in the mail about basket ;)06:42
abattoirJucato: away from IRC for a few days ;)06:42
alleeTonio_: PDF?06:42
Jucatoheh :)06:42
alleeTonio_: ah the url above06:43
Tonio_allee: yes06:43
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=== allee wonder is Belinda is a human or made of gum (slide 8)
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faboZeroCool: i must go06:50
faboif someone want to test : http://fboudra.free.fr/ubuntu/kde-guidance_0.7.0-1ubuntu1/06:50
faboTonio_: thks for the link :)06:50
fabosee you later06:51
Tonio_fabo: seya06:51
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Riddellmhb: the strings issue looks like a general problem with the .desktop translations, I have half a fix for it but I need to work on it some more07:02
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Riddellmhb: still to look at hwdb translations, although maybe we could ask mvo to look at it since he did that before07:02
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ZeroCoolfabo: ask how does one install it via apt-get ?07:12
ZeroCoolis it tested07:13
ZeroCoolran out07:13
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Tonio_Riddell: I uploaded a fixed kdebindings 3.5.407:24
Tonio_Riddell: upgrade should now work for 3.5.5 if you reuse that package07:24
RiddellTonio_: did mdz look at the debdiff first?07:24
Tonio_Riddell: yes, he was okay, but he told me is was too late for upstream update07:25
Tonio_so I fixed 3.5.4 package07:25
RiddellTonio_: just removed the same patch from 3.5.4?07:25
Tonio_Riddell: yes07:26
Tonio_that was the fix07:26
Riddellthanks Tonio_ 07:27
Tonio_Riddell: you're welcome :)07:27
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Tonio_Riddell: I'll probably write 3 specs for the UDS07:32
Tonio_Riddell: kubuntu-multimedia-simplification, kubuntu-samba-integration and kubuntu-voip-solution07:34
Tonio_Riddell: are you okay for those subjects to be discussed ?07:34
RiddellTonio_: sure07:34
Tonio_great07:34
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Tm_THmm, when next LTS release is coming?08:03
Riddellwe don't know yet08:04
Tm_TI see08:04
DaSkreechI would guess infour cycles?08:04
Riddellthere's no set time for it08:05
Riddellhttp://yamefa.linux.free.fr/  another kubuntu derived distro08:05
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abattoirshiny :P08:09
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claydohwhat no Konversation in yamefa???08:17
claydohI am shocked and stunned!08:17
claydohbuy it is shiny:)08:18
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DaSkreechclaydoh: I think the expression is shocked and in awe08:23
claydohawe?08:24
claydohas in awe, shucks do I have to use Xchat?08:24
sebasirssi!08:25
claydohso we can have yamefa, sebasOS and of course claydOS08:26
mhbanyone considered inclusion of kdict in the edgy+1?08:26
DaSkreech3.5.5. shipping with Edgy?08:26
sebasDaSkreech: The other way round, KDE doesn't ship linux :>08:26
Riddellkopete would be the alternative they leave in] 08:26
mhbI know, little place and all ... but Ubuntu already contains a DICT client08:27
DaSkreechSebas it ships with it :)08:27
sebasDaSkreech: Nope, Edgy ships with KDE, not KDE with Edgy :P08:28
DaSkreechYes but KDE ships with Linux :)08:29
=== abattoir remembers Riddell once saying "Konqueror is our dictionary app..."
sebasNo, it doesn't (pointless word fucking)08:29
sebasDistros ship Linux with KDE.08:30
DaSkreechUntil KDE4 which should in theory work on Windows08:30
sebasWhat about BSD then?08:30
sebasSolaris?08:30
DaSkreech>_<08:30
=== sebas feels squeezed now :)
DaSkreechEdgy shipping with 3.5.5?08:30
sebasYes08:31
DaSkreechGood :008:31
DaSkreech:-)08:31
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Tonio_Riddell: how many kubuntu derivatives are actually known ?08:58
=== Ingmar^ [n=ingmar@4.123-136-217.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #kubuntu-devel
Tonio_I'm always wondering why so many distros do exist.... foss would be better if more people would concentrate on a less number of projects08:59
Tonio_s/less/few08:59
RiddellTonio_: http://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuDerivedDistros09:01
tomaTonio_: did you sign up for debian kde-extra's ?09:01
Riddellup to 1009:01
Tonio_toma: I will today, I promissed :)09:01
Tonio_Riddell: totally crazy.......09:01
Tonio_can you imagin the power of kubuntu if all those guys where helping us directly instead of duplicate again and again ? ;)09:02
jdongaww... there goes jdongbuntu.... :(09:02
Riddellwell some of them are, e.g. ichthux09:03
Tonio_although certain projects like ulteo are providing something new09:03
Riddelland some of them can't e.g. mepis which is based on not caring about copyright09:03
jdonglol, nice summary of Mepis :)09:04
ZeroCoolI notice in Kubuntu there are allot of reduntant apps, are some going to be filter out?09:04
Tonio_Riddell: yeah I agree, but I wonder what's the purpose of Yamefa for example.... if it is just a set of graphical elements and changing 3 programs by default, that doesn't require a new complete distro to be maintained.... well that's my opinion09:04
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Riddellyou're right there09:05
Tonio_ZeroCool: yes I just discussed about that this afternoon09:05
jdongTonio_: how would you suggest customizations off k/ubuntu to be done then?09:05
RiddellZeroCool: like what?09:05
Tonio_ZeroCool: talking about the multimedia part or anything else ?09:05
ZeroCoolk09:05
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Tonio_jdong: a kde theme packaged09:05
ZeroCoollike konversation & KSirc09:06
Tonio_and if you want distros that already mix gnome and kde, you have the choice with fedora, mandriva, suse etc......09:06
Riddellksirc isn't in kubuntu by default09:06
Tonio_ZeroCool: ksirc isn't installed by default09:06
jdongTonio_: if I were to, say, make a jdongbuntu-desktop metapackage and a Kjdongbuntu metapackage, would there be any chance of acceptance? ;-)09:06
ZeroCoolunderstand by default, however, its in the mix09:06
Tonio_jdong: why not, but I wouldn't see the point in doing that...09:07
ZeroCoolsame with media players....09:07
ZeroCoolwhich one, hmmm09:07
RiddellZeroCool: no, ksirc is in universe09:07
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Tonio_jdong: I prefer to push kubuntu-desktop to what I think is the best instead of forking with a tonio_desktop :)09:07
jdongTonio_: on a typical fresh install, the first 30 minutes of my customization process is basically enabling universe/multiverse and installing packages :)09:07
RiddellZeroCool: what about media players?09:07
Tonio_ZeroCool: yes, we have 2 media players09:07
=== mhb_ is now known as mhb
Tonio_kaffeine and kmplayer, and we target to have one only, but that'll have to wait for oskar (kmplayer replacement)09:08
jdongTonio_: and a lot of the stuff I pull in are multiverse / universe, and thus not suitable for the average kubuntu-desktop09:08
ZeroCooluse, the following: (test them: kaffeine, mplayer, kmplayer, Noatun...)09:08
Tonio_jdong: yes I know, but well, we are not going to have one distro per software combinason by the end !09:08
Tonio_ZeroCool: noatun is not by default, mplayer too09:09
jdongTonio_: right, I agree, but what is a distro and what is a customization of ubuntu? ;)09:09
ZeroCoolunderstood, however, it would applear mplayer does more..09:09
Tonio_ZeroCool: if you talk about duplication, please talk about the softwares provided by kubuntu-desktop ;)09:09
jdongTonio_: if I respun some DVD's with Java and codecs, I'd personally still call it Ubuntu/Kubuntu09:09
Tonio_jdong: kubuntu is a distro, Yamefa is a customisation of ubuntu ;)09:09
jdongI wouldnt' consider it a new distro09:09
Tonio_the different is really easy to figure out09:10
ZeroCoolit trying out apps, to see what really works, AND what really does not...09:10
ZeroCoolSo, hence... the different media players..09:10
ZeroCoolI really like moc for playing mp3, flac...etc09:10
ZeroCoolits a command line app09:11
claydohI like the *-desktop idea, I could spin my own desktop setup and such, then in a reposomewhere just have a claydOS-desktop metapackage09:21
claydohcustom K-D -s wallpapers, etc09:21
claydohwhy would I want to have to work involved in supporting a whole distro09:22
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jdongclaydoh: respinning a CD is not the work of supporting a whole distro...09:29
claydohbut if you set up a whole site, forums wiki, etc it can be09:29
jdongclaydoh: now if you built a full clone of archive.ubuntu.com, then fine, you've made your own distro...09:29
jdongclaydoh: well, bombing current support channels / resources with questions specific to your customization isn't all that nice either ;-)09:30
claydohbut not if its just colors, graphics, etc09:31
jdongand any customizations beyond trivial colors/graphics/default package changes can easily generate bugs09:31
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steveire_hey. I want to make a new applet for the system tray. Where do I start>09:54
SimeRiddell: ping09:54
Riddellhi Sime 09:54
Tonio_hey Sime ;)09:55
SimeRiddell: what is this story about libhal and 3.5.5?09:55
Riddellsteveire_: #kde-devel09:55
SimeRiddell: is there some weirdness going on?09:55
ryanakcahow do I uninstall kde 4? or can I just leave it and not worry about any problems?09:55
steveire_cheers09:55
RiddellSime: not that I know of09:55
Simehttp://tsdgeos.blogspot.com/2006/10/solution-for-kubuntu-355-and-usb-not.html09:56
SimeRiddell: I'm just wondering.09:56
ryanakcaRiddell: have you had a chance to look at licence plates yet? (just in case one of the 6 isn't "perfect"), anything I can add, remove, change?09:57
RiddellSime: oh, that's dapper09:57
RiddellI need to add the newer dbus to the repo09:58
Riddellryanakca: URL?09:58
ryanakcaRiddell: http://rkavanagh.homelinux.org/~ryan/kubuntu/ (8-14).png09:58
SimeRiddell: and edgy has been using the newer version of hal for a while now, I assume?09:59
RiddellSime: yes09:59
Riddellryanakca: I think 5 is as good as any10:01
ryanakcaRiddell: sure? kk10:01
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SimeTonio_: I'm seeing strange "konq not refreshing" issues now.10:08
SimeRiddell: you might be interested in this.10:08
SimeI've got a few partitions here, and if I park konq in /media/backup1 then I can see the contents (GOOD, NORMAL)10:09
Simenow from the console I sudo umount that partition. Konq now shows an empty dir (GOOD).10:09
SimeI mount that partition. Konq does not automatically refresh to show the contents... (BAD)10:10
Tonio_Sime: fantastic, you finally finished patching for audiocd then ?10:10
SimeTonio_: I've patched up the audiocd stuff, then I noticed this problem.10:11
Tonio_Sime: yes I tested here, and it works nicelly for umount but not for mount10:11
Simeyeah, that is what I'm seeing.10:11
Tonio_Sime: but refreshing works for folders for example, no issues there10:11
Simeit has nothing to do with media, just with mounting and konq10:11
Tonio_that's why me yesterday tests touching a file a on desktop worked10:11
Tonio_Sime: I know ;)10:11
Tonio_Sime: as I said this morning, you rock :)10:12
Simethanks, but we have still go a problem here...10:12
Simeanyone know which subsystem KDE uses for dir notification?10:12
Tonio_Sime: better ask #kde-devel probably no ?10:13
Tonio_allee: tonio-guest already exists on alioth......... :(10:14
RiddellSime: it should use inotify10:14
Tonio_why is my nick that simple ?10:14
Riddellin dapper we built against gamin but not any more10:14
fdovingguys, bug 62223 is still not fixed for me on my ppc box.10:14
UbugtuMalone bug 62223 in kde-guidance "Monitor & Display, User Management, Disk & Filesystems - All Broken" [Undecided,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/6222310:14
fdovingcurrent edgy.10:14
Simefdoving: what do you see when you run "displayconfig" from the shell?10:16
fdovingthen it works.10:17
=== marseillai_ is now known as marseillai
fdoving'kcmshell displayconfig' returns this:10:18
fdovinghttp://rafb.net/paste/results/SkDvk027.html10:18
fdovingand it doesn't work.10:19
fdovingi get the 'Couldn't load module..'-page.. 10:19
orkid__koffice 1.6 not in edgy yet?10:20
faboSime: after this issue http://rafb.net/paste/results/No6dYF76.html ;)10:20
Simefdoving: just run "displayconfig", no kcmshell.10:21
fdovingSime: 'displayconfig' works.10:21
SimeRiddell: it looks like inotify is borken.10:21
fdovingno errors, and the correct window appears.10:22
SimeRiddell: install package python-pyinotify, it has a good little test, diagnostic prog.10:22
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jjesse /msg nickserv identify jes478SE10:24
fabooups10:24
ryanakcajjesse: ouch... might want to change your password(s) now...10:25
jjessedoh10:25
jjessebummer10:25
Simefdoving: it looks like the python interpreter is not starting up from kcmshell. (It is called from out of C++ code)10:25
jjesseit usually does it automatically :(10:25
ryanakcajjesse: why don't you just stick it into the konversation startup settings?10:25
ryanakcaah10:25
fdovingSime: anything i can do to find out why? 10:25
ryanakcahehehe... your nickserv password is much more complicated than mine :)10:26
jjesseah but its one i've memorized :)10:26
jjessebut i just changed it10:26
ryanakcalol10:26
Simefdoving: run "ldd /usr/lib/kde3/kcm_displayconfig.so.0.0.0" and put the output somewhere.10:27
Simewhere I can see it.10:27
ryanakcato all you evil minded people *cough* pointy stick wielders *cough* : jjesse has outsmarted you by changing his password :)10:27
fabooh nice, i never notice "/" shortcut in konqueror before ...10:27
=== ryanakca wonders if kubuntu work would count towards volunteer hours...
ryanakcafabo: what does it do? it shows me 'home' and 'media'10:28
faboit's a text search command like firefox10:29
fdovingSime: http://ubuntu.lnix.net/misc/ldd_kcm_displayconfig.out10:29
ryanakcaah10:29
faboit is in edit menu also10:29
Simefdoving: what arch are you on?10:31
faboppc10:31
fdovingSime: ppc.10:31
Sime64?10:32
fdovingno.10:32
fdovingit's an iBook G410:32
fdovinghowever.. it doesn't work on my i386 box either. 10:33
fdovingalso up2date edgy.10:33
fdovinglooks like the x86 box only got issues with the 'display & monitor' module.. 10:34
fabofdoving: i have done a package for i386 : http://fboudra.free.fr/debian/kde-guidance_0.7.0-1/10:34
fabotested on my edgy, it works10:34
fdovingnevermind the x86 issue.. it's just because i run in NX-mode.10:35
fdovingmonitor & display shouldn't work there.10:35
Simefdoving: displayconfig will fail on NX.10:36
fdovingi found out.10:36
fdovingso, i only have the issue on powerpc.10:36
fabofdoving: i suggest that because another guy (nick zeroconf) have an issue on x8610:36
fdovingfabo: what's different in your kde-guidance package?10:37
fabofdoving: nothing interesting, i used sime source archive and rebuild against up2date edgy10:39
faboSime: and source archive provide some typos error in setup.py ...10:39
fabofdoving: i changed a bit the rules file but it is for powermanager10:41
alleeTonio_: sit down, relax and think about a more unique nick ;)10:44
Tonio_allee: already done hehe :)10:47
alleeTonio_: heh, heh10:47
alleeTonio_: tell fabo your new nick.  He modify the commit access file.10:48
alleefabo: can you login to svn.debian.org and svn up too?10:49
faboallee: yes10:49
allee^^ as Thu<imposible to remember> explained10:49
fabosure i know what to do :)10:50
alleefabo: sorry ;)10:50
fabono no, it isaac fault ;)10:50
fabolast i remember there's 2 thing to do so i asked isaac: no just update commit file ...10:51
fabo+time10:51
Tonio_fabo: tonio-ubuntu-guest10:56
Tonio_not very original I know, but that's all I've been able to find :)10:56
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faboTonio_: done :p11:03
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alleeTonio_: welcome 11:07
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alleefabo: did you had time to look into where kubuntu stuff should be to be picked up by build.net?11:08
faboallee: no, i was busy last week so i didn't find time to update the wiki page and the build.net stuff :(11:09
alleefabo: np11:09
alleefabo: same problem here :(11:10
Tonio_fabo, allee: my account isn't confirmed yet, as I didn't receive the validation email11:12
faboTonio_: i don't remember how many time you must wait before alioth account is enabled and synced over servers11:14
faboTonio_: you can ask lo-lan-do (alioth admin) for more informations11:15
alleeTonio_: please consider: kscd is also usable by your grandma.  amarok is not without help of the grantchild ;)11:16
faboah sorry he isn't connected ...11:16
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Tonio_allee: heh, indeed but well...11:20
Tonio_allee: amarok for an audio cd is very simple too11:20
Tonio_allee: btw that's just a global idea, I don't say that we have to remove kscd :)11:20
tomado people use kubuntu on openbsd? or is that a weird question?11:24
alleeTonio_: yeap.  It's hard to find a balance between kscd/codeine and kaffeine/amarok target groups ;)11:24
alleetoma: eh? you mean the openbsd kernel in a kubuntu env?  Weired.  No, I don't 11:24
Tonio_allee: true, the firsts are noobs softwares and the others 2 are geek softwares11:25
Tonio_allee: but in my opinion, if my grandmother can use windows media player, she can use amarok11:25
tomaallee: hmm, hmm11:25
Tonio_allee: it is more a matter of "do we want users that don't want to learn or not"11:25
alleetoma: afaik there only a freebsd port to debian but *ubuntu does not care about this flavour11:26
Tonio_allee: honnestly, I wouldn't suggest kubuntu for someone who absolutly doesn't want to learn anything and have something as simple as possible11:26
Tonio_allee: I would suggest ubuntu/gnome11:26
alleeTonio_: It's much about first time experience11:26
tomaallee: ok, fine, edgy is unaffected then11:26
Tonio_allee: bah, most people using windows are used to complex multimedia apps (realone player, windows media player, winamp etc....)11:27
Tonio_allee: most of those are 10 times more complicated than amarok11:27
Tonio_allee: and btw if we only have *one* audio application, it can be documented widely, that's the point too11:27
alleeTonio_: seriously, my kids and wife, failed to use amarok and kaffeine -> linux is shit.  With kscd and codeine they are pleased and very happy.11:28
Tonio_allee: yeah I understand that, but that's a matter of default orientation, as long as they can install apps they want....11:29
Tonio_allee: osx is supposed to be simple, and has itunes by default for everything related to audio11:29
fdovingi must say i can't stand amarok and kaffeine myself.11:29
fdovingwaaaay to much stuff.11:30
=== allee nods
fdovingi just need a music player with a playlist, and a videoplayer that plays whatever i click in konqueror.11:30
Tonio_allee: if we have an "play the audio cd in amarok" when inserting a cd, that makes it simple11:30
Tonio_fdoving: what if you don't go in kaffeine menus ? it just plays what you are clicking on in konquror11:31
Tonio_most of the time that's the way I use it11:31
alleeTonio_: if amarok can be tweaked to make it very obvious how to play the inserted CD.  That's it ;)11:32
Tonio_allee: did you play with amarok on edgy ?11:32
Tonio_allee: lots of useless options have been removed, it is really easier to use now11:32
Tonio_allee: well what I'm thinking about is you insert a cd, choose "play with amarok" and it launches automatically11:33
Tonio_this is really feasible11:33
fdovingTonio_: might be usable, i haven't used it in a while. codeine is so nice.11:34
Tonio_fdoving: yes, but limited to xine...11:34
Tonio_fdoving: doesn't handle subtitles etc.....11:34
Tonio_fdoving: it is nice for very limited usage, I agree11:34
fdovingTonio_: my codeine handles subtitles.11:35
Tonio_I think most people (even non geeks) have learned how to use complicated softwares now11:35
Tonio_consider the incredible success of picassa for example11:35
Tonio_very complex, and even my mother loves it11:35
fdovingsure, but having simple apps that just does what it should and works is always a good idea.11:35
Tonio_fdoving: what about a divx with external .str file ? doesn't work11:36
alleeTonio_: heh, only kscd and kaffeine are offered on my edgy system on 'insert audio cd'11:36
fdovingi have never seen such a thing. 11:36
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Tonio_allee: yes, that has to be done or amarok, but that's feasible, as long as we can call amarok with a dcop call to launch the cd reading or soemthing like that11:37
Tonio_fdoving: bah you play legal files, that's why ;)11:37
Tonio_fdoving: I have a lot of avi files with subtitles, since I generally prefer to watch with original language11:37
fdovingTonio_: kaffeine is da h4x0rz player then :)11:38
Tonio_fdoving: yes :)11:38
Tonio_but honnestly, kaffeine isn't that complicated....... that because you go in the config menus etc....11:39
fabokaffeine isn't only a media player compared to other player11:39
fdovingno, it's way better now, than a few months back.11:39
Tonio_my girlfriend for example uses it very basically, she never plays with options, and doesn't find it complicated11:39
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faboshe never used DVB support ;)11:40
Tonio_fabo: nope :)11:41
Tonio_fabo: is that complicated to use ?11:41
Tonio_I though kaffeine had a superb dvb support11:41
faboone of the best11:41
faboupstream is focused on the DVB support more than media player capabilities11:42
Tonio_allee: but I agree, simplifying the multimedia part on kubuntu is hard to figure out and needs debatting, that's why I only gave example on the wiki page11:44
Tonio_https://launchpad.net/bugs/6662011:47
UbugtuMalone bug 66620 in kaffeine "Kaffeine DVB stopped working in latest edgy " [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  11:47
Tonio_pfffffff those bugs really make me shit....11:47
Tonio_"I'm using XGL + Compiz and I cry because I have an issue with kaffeine"11:47
Tonio_then don't use alpha state software like xgl.........11:47
nixternalimbrandon: i need a bip server, mine went up in a blaze of glory11:48
imbrandonnixternal, let me wakeup; a bit and i'll set you one up11:50
nixternalim just messin'11:50
nixternalmine died during our little comed explosion here in chicago11:50
nixternalsurge protectors don't work as they are supposed to11:50
imbrandonheh brb shower11:50
nixternalabout time ;)11:51
imbrandonnixternal, sarah ( the mexi ) kept me up late, i'm just now wakin up11:51
nixternalgahahhaa11:51
nixternalomgbum11:51
imbrandonheh11:51
alleeTonio_: yes, finding a solution for noops and geeks is far from easy.  But it's not only releated to multimedia.  kedit/kword, kview/krita, gwenview/digikam etc11:53
Tonio_kview/krita ?11:53
Tonio_whay is kview ?11:54
Tonio_never seen this11:54
alleeTonio_: kview was a simple show this picture viewer.11:55
Tonio_bah, to be compared to gwenview then, not krita :)11:56
Riddellkpaint/krita11:56
Tonio_Riddell: yes, or kolourpaint11:56
Tonio_maybe it is the same ? :)11:56
alleeTonio_, Riddell: more good examples ;)11:57
alleeMaybe a 'Open with' in the apps or a common sub description like 'simple, easy' versus expert, power' or what used common11:58
alleecategorie of apps can help here11:58
Tonio_allee: better having 2 desktops files then :)11:58
Tonio_kubuntu-desktop-expert and kubuntu-desktop-easy :11:58
Tonio_;)11:58
alleeTonio_: lol11:58
Tonio_allee: in my opinion, when I see the softwares that are used on windows by noobs, I don't think kaffeine or amarok could be an issue11:59
Tonio_krita is different, since it is very strange to use, very special (and complicated)11:59
Tonio_honnestly, if my syster can use itunes/ipod, she can use amarok :)12:00
RiddellI have trouble with amarok12:01
alleeTonio_: it's just a matter how long it takes12:01
imbrandonyea amarok is trickey if you do some of the advanced features12:02
Tonio_Riddell: you mean ?12:02
imbrandonlike DAAP etc12:02
Tonio_the point is do we want a grandmothabuntu or supergeekbuntu12:02
Tonio_I think a compromise is possible12:02
alleeTonio_: both12:02
Riddellwe want a worksforeveryonekubuntu12:02
imbrandonTonio_, both, linux for humans ;)12:02
Tonio_Riddell: I agree, but for the same reason than simplicity <> security, I would say than functionnalities <> simplicity12:03
imbrandonbtw moins Riddell Tonio_ allee12:03
Tonio_imbrandon: ;)12:03
Tonio_in my opinion, we should provide accessible apps, that's true12:03
alleeTonio_: if amarok can be made 'easy' for noobs when an audio cd is inserted.  GREAT! Get rid of kscd.  If not, sadly, keep both12:04
alleeimbrandon: :)12:04
Tonio_but I don't care people that "don't want to understand and learn anything in front of the computer"12:04
Tonio_I had to learn for my car licence, and that's the same for computers12:04
Tonio_I don't want to consider the 40% of windows users who don't use an antivirus in 11/200612:05
imbrandonyou dident have to learn to watch tv, and computers are entertainment for some , just as a tv12:05
Tonio_40%........ I was about to die when I read this.....12:05
alleeTonio_: but you would complain it, it learn a car you would need an education like for an areoplane :)12:05
Tonio_imbrandon: bah, have you used a recent tv ? they are complicated to use12:05
Tonio_imbrandon: same for cellphones etc......12:05
imbrandonheh yea i have a 62 inch rca infronty of me, many options and intutive are diffrent, it can have many many options and featuires and still be easy to use ;)12:06
fdovingit's not that users can't figure out how to do stuff. but they want it to be easy, fast and painless.12:06
Tonio_fdoving: the point is "what means simple" ???12:07
Tonio_people find windows easy12:07
alleeTonio_: I agree, one has to learn if one what's to get most out of the computer.  But many don't care. They just want to 'play this CD/DVD'12:07
Tonio_they have 400 spywares installed, 4 IE toolbars, buttons everywhere etc......12:07
Tonio_they don't understand anything of their computer, but they claim windows is easy12:07
Tonio_that's just a matter of "beeing used to", nothing else12:07
alleeTonio_: show them codeine.  My Fam never ask for windows since they first used codeine.12:07
imbrandonno for the most part people dont find windows easy, they find trhe taskes they do daily like play a dvd or cd easy but the OS is complicated , ask one of them to run chkdsk on next boot, or add a new user, they will shit12:08
Tonio_people prefer norton antivirus to another one.... that sounds crazy because it is completly ununderstandable, but they are used too12:08
imbrandonTonio_, exactly its not whats easy, its what they are used to12:09
imbrandonwe are trying to make it easy ( but not dumbed down for the expers too )12:09
Tonio_allee: I like codeine too :) don't forget I did the package with you, and I use it too, the point is just that is doesn't support gstreamer, which is an issue (and is unmaintained)12:09
Tonio_imbrandon: easy doesn't exist in my opinion12:09
imbrandonTonio_, your exactly right, thus we have "jobs" to do ;)12:09
Tonio_everything is a matter of beeing used to or not12:10
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imbrandonif it was already easy we wouldent be doing this would we ;)12:10
Tonio_intuitive may exist, but not "easy"12:10
Tonio_look at photoshop12:11
imbrandonwell imho those go hand in hand, if i can figure out how to use it without reading the readme , its easy ( but a better word is intutive )12:11
Tonio_how many people, totally noobs winth windows, are using it, simply because they had too ?12:11
imbrandonyea it took me many years to get good at photoshop12:11
Tonio_and that a monster software, incredibly complicated12:11
Tonio_but now they are used too12:11
fdovingTonio_: the problem is to force users to get used to the advanced (and probably best) way to do it. Monopoly is the way to go :)12:11

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