[12:13] <Sime> Zzzzz
[12:13] <Sime> cya
[12:14] <oslo> i didn't manage to use screenkast to make videos of my desktop
[12:15] <oslo> ???
[12:16] <DaSkreech> Oh?
[12:16] <DaSkreech> Why not?
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[12:34] <ryanakca> KDE4 bugs are reported where? bugs.kde.org or launchpad.net?
[12:35] <Riddell> bugs.kde.org
[12:35] <ryanakca> kk
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[12:37] <ryanakca> will export KDEDIR=/usr/lib/kde4  apply/affect kmenu? or just apps run from that konsole
=== DaSkreech pokes oslo
[12:44] <kwwii> Riddell: what is the time-frame for including usplash artwork
[12:44] <kwwii> ?
[12:45] <kwwii> note that ubuntu received an exception to include new artwork pretty much everywhere
[12:45] <Riddell> kwwii: not sure, what do you want to change?
[12:45] <Riddell> kwwii: do you know anything about the KDE patron logo?
[12:46] <kwwii> I would like to make the progress bar in the kubuntu usplash look similar to the ubuntu usplash version
[12:46] <kwwii> nope, I saw a mail about it with Nuno saying he would do it or such
[12:46] <Riddell> kwwii: commit it to bzr and I'll see if I can upload
[12:46] <kwwii> or am I crazy?
[12:46] <Riddell> hmm, Nuno denied all knowledge
[12:47] <kwwii> hehe
[12:47] <kwwii> then nobody is doing it
[12:47] <Riddell> groovy, I'll ask the board what's going on with it
[12:47] <kwwii> there is also an open request for a KDE ev logo
[12:47] <kwwii> I mean, how many kde logos can one make
[12:48] <kwwii> ?
[12:48] <Riddell> well e.v. and patron should be variants of the KDE logo
[12:48] <Riddell> just some text in the right place would be fine
[12:48] <kwwii> that is my opinion too
[12:48] <oslo> DaSkreech?
[12:49] <DaSkreech> Skreenkast?
[12:49] <oslo> ya
[12:49] <oslo> i got an isdnvcserver error
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[12:49] <DaSkreech> vnc eh?
[12:49] <oslo> when i tried to reachit, & when i start it i see nothing new
[12:50] <kwwii> Riddell: send an email to the board and include all@oxygen-icons.org in CC with these thoughts
[12:50] <kwwii> (just so they notice it, david and nuno are both members but they rarely read the list
[12:50] <kwwii> )
=== DaSkreech still votes for an optional one that shows progress :)
[12:51] <kwwii> artists are wierd people...sometimes I think I am the most normal of all :-)
[12:52] <kwwii> I bet that would scare some people
[12:52] <Jucato> heh :)
[12:52] <Riddell> kwwii: let me know when you commit to bzr
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[12:54] <kwwii> Riddell: it will probably be tomorrow as I talked one of the ubuntu artists into doing it, he mentioned it would take a while
[12:54] <Riddell> delegation!  excellent
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[12:55] <kwwii> funnily enough, the ubuntu artists are really keen on working on kubuntu atm
[12:56] <Riddell> excellent
[12:56] <DaSkreech> Cool
[12:57] <DaSkreech> Riddell got a lot of buzz this week
[12:57] <kwwii> I thought that the progess bar in the usplash is a good place to start unifying thing
[12:57] <kwwii> s
[12:57] <kwwii> :-)
[12:58] <Jucato> kool! more artists for Kubuntu :)
[12:59] <kwwii> I was lucky to have had time working on dapper artwork to understand the system behind things....I think that the new stuff will hopefully interest a few new artists
[12:59] <kwwii> kubuntu enjoys many freedoms that ubuntu does not 
[01:00] <DaSkreech> Go K!
[01:00] <DaSkreech> Freeedommmmmmmm
[01:01] <Jucato> and Kubuntu is lucky to have kwwii on the team for Edgy. really really nice :)
[01:02] <kwwii> thanks :-)
[01:03] <kwwii> the point is that is has to lead somewhere
[01:03] <kwwii> but good artists are so hard to come by
[01:04] <kwwii> anyway....
[01:04] <kwwii> time for sleep
[01:04] <DaSkreech> Night
[01:04] <Jucato> night! :)
[01:04] <kwwii> night all
[01:04] <Jucato> btw, just out of curiousity, when is Kubuntu's birthday?
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[01:08] <ryanakca> hmmm.... no clue... not on the wiki?
[01:08] <jjesse> Jucato: its the day that Riddell posted his blog entry about wanting to help w/ ubuntu
[01:10] <jjesse> http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/591
[01:10] <Riddell> note how I cleverly search engine optimised the title of that blog :)
[01:11] <jjesse> still the first entry for google search: jonathan riddell and ubuntu
[01:11] <ryanakca> lol
[01:11] <Riddell> used to be first for ubuntu :)
=== ryanakca wonders about ubuntu rescue floppy...
[01:11] <DaSkreech> Yeah I remember that
[01:12] <ryanakca> ubuntu version of tomsrtbt :)
[01:12] <DaSkreech> Riddell: Do we care that Edubuntu is excising the KDE apps?
[01:13] <Riddell> DaSkreech: yes, but I don't really blame them
[01:14] <DaSkreech> Well seeing as most of the Edu apps are KDE I'd think they would want to excise Gnome :(
[01:16] <Riddell> that would be a logical approach
[01:16] <DaSkreech> ah well
[01:17] <Jucato> jjesse: oh thanks :)
[01:17] <Jucato> so that would make Kubuntu's birthday Aug. 28, 2004?
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[01:23] <ryanakca> heh... 
=== ryanakca wonders why we didn't have e-cake and e-balloons and e-banners and a big b-day party :D
[01:26] <Jucato> probably being 2 years old isn't worth a big celebration just yet?
[01:26] <DaSkreech> That's e-kake
[01:26] <ryanakca> Riddell: would white around klippers' icon in the systray and around the ok/cancel pics on their respective buttons count as a bug? or would it just be style/theme problems?
[01:26] <ryanakca> lol
[01:27] <Riddell> ryanakca: sounds like a bug
[01:27] <ryanakca> kk
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[01:36] <bddebian> Heya
[01:36] <DaSkreech> Hi
[01:36] <ryanakca> hey bddebian
[01:37] <bddebian> Hello DaSkreech, ryanakca
[01:37] <DaSkreech> Can someone give some X help on edgy in the main chan?
[01:41] <ryanakca> I can try :)
[01:42] <DaSkreech> ryanakca: Hooray
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[03:14] <DaSkreech> nixternal: I'm going to ponder it some more this weel
[03:14] <DaSkreech> k
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[04:09] <jjesse> oin #ichthux-devel
[04:09] <Jucato> heheh :)
[04:10] <jjesse> doh
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[05:00] <Hawkwind> Ahhh, finally got xchat-2.6.8 to build for dapper and Edgy as it was just released today :)
[05:01] <Jucato> nice one.
[05:01] <Hawkwind> Ohh!  Good mornin` sir Jucato!
[05:01] <Hawkwind> I've had my head stuck in deb and rpm building.  Didn't see ya come in :P
[05:01] <Jucato> come in? I've been here for 4 hours now :P
[05:02] <Hawkwind> I was playing darts for a while.  Then helping Liz with insurance choices.  Then got right back to building KDE rpms and xchat debs
[05:03] <Jucato> ah
=== Jucato wonders if Xchat automatically updates on Windows :P
[05:04] <Hawkwind> Nope
[05:05] <Hawkwind> There is no new Windows version though today :P
[05:05] <Hawkwind> Windows is still at 2.6.7 and Linux is now at 2.6.8
[05:05] <Jucato> yeah
[05:05] <Hawkwind> I've got a free official build since I've done quite a bit of work, features requests and all for Xchat.  So my dad gets to use the official version on his PC
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[08:06] <ZeroCool> when will they fix the system Monitor & Display issue
[08:09] <nixternal> what is the issue ZeroCool?
[08:15] <ZeroCool> well, its like this: when opening system setting and selecting monitors & display, it tell me that it can't load the module due to.. 
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[08:20] <ZeroCool> its late... zzzzzzzzzzzzz
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[08:44] <Sime> Tonio_: I've found the audiocd problem. Patches tonight. Some kind of behavour difference between 3.5.4 and 3.5.5.
[08:51] <imbrandon> Sime, rockin
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[09:13] <Lure> Sime: is there a bug opened? If we want this in Edgy, we need to target it for the release 
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[09:20] <Lure> Riddell: what is going on with kubuntu.org (website and repositories)?
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[10:27] <Lure> Riddell: just fyi - I had to run apt-get -f install to install koffice 1.6 correctly http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27070/
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[11:31] <freeflying> imbrandon: arounds?
[11:32] <imbrandon> freeflying, wasup
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[12:18] <Tonio_> Sime: you rock !
=== Jucato wonders what Sime did this time :)
[12:19] <Sime> Lure: I don't know. If there is one let me know and I will mention it in my changelog.
[12:20] <Tonio_> Sime: bah you fixed the issue hehe :)
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[01:18] <rideout> Riddell: ping
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[02:31] <Riddell> hi rideout 
[02:35] <rideout> Riddell: the qt4 you uploaded had a build failure, but infinity and dholbach are on it, after i discovered the culprit
[02:35] <Riddell> yeah, just been looking at that
[02:36] <Riddell> qmake really is crap for make clean
[02:38] <rideout> Riddell: i have about one hour more that i can spend on helping with edgy, any suggests, should i just head off to malone?
[02:39] <Riddell> you could tell me if bug 66442 is an issue
[02:39] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 66442 in kdebase "No keyboard layouts available in settings after upgrade to kde 3.5.5" [Undecided,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/66442
[02:39] <rideout> ok, i'll check it out
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[02:41] <rideout> it was for me, when i first upgraded to edgy a few weeks ago, i had to manually set up a symlink, i'll delete the xkb folders and reinstall to see if works now
[02:43] <Riddell> rideout: how did you fix qt4?
[02:44] <Riddell> ah, your e-mail says
[02:48] <rideout> yeah
[02:49] <rideout> Riddell: what packaged should be in charge of /usr/share/X11/xkb ?
[02:50] <Riddell> xkb-data?
[02:50] <Riddell> at least that's what does /etc/X11/xkb/
[02:51] <Riddell> but presumably we want to change KDE to use the correct /etc/X11/xkb/ location
[02:51] <rideout> yep, apt-file didn't say though
[02:53] <rideout> i just was being thourough in my investigation
[02:53] <rideout> the location changed with xorg 6.9/7.0 to 7.1 i think, i'll have to check
[02:54] <Riddell> so nothing should have changed for kde 3.5.5
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[03:01] <MidMark> ma salva un cookie?
[03:01] <MidMark> sorry
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[03:03] <rideout> Riddell: kde changed the order of the paths it seached from /etc/X11/, to /usr/share/X11/ first
[03:04] <rideout> a function looks in a list of directories and the first one with an xkb subdirectory it sees it uses it
[03:04] <rideout> http://websvn.kde.org/tags/KDE/3.5.4/kdebase/kxkb/x11helper.cpp?rev=565692&view=markup
[03:05] <rideout> http://websvn.kde.org/tags/KDE/3.5.5/kdebase/kxkb/x11helper.cpp?rev=591452&view=markup
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[03:16] <rideout> Riddell: power failure, i'm back
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[03:18] <rideout> Riddell: we have a few options, but the best is just to change kde's behaviour back to 3.5.4
[03:18] <mhb> hi all
[03:18] <Riddell> rideout: that sounds like the best thing to do
[03:19] <rideout> i'll send you a diff in a minute or so
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[03:47] <Tonio_> Riddell: I don't find kdebindings 3.5.5 on launchpad... any url ?
[03:48] <Tonio_> Riddell: os does it need packaging ?
[03:48] <Tonio_> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+source/kdebindings that's all I can find
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[03:49] <rideout> Riddell: http://ats-pos.com/tmp/kdebase_3.5.5-0ubuntu4.diff.gz
[03:51] <bddebian> Howdy
[03:53] <Tonio_> yo bddebian
[03:54] <bddebian> Hi Tonio_
[03:55] <Tonio_> Riddell: current package fails on configure (gcj detection), want me to fix this or upgrade to 3.5.5 ?
[03:56] <Jucato> hi bddebian 
[03:59] <bddebian> Hello Jucato
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[04:17] <ZeroCool> Thought I would ask, is there a secure method of deletion of folder with files, & files..eg: .xls .html .doc..etc
[04:19] <rideout> ZeroCool: secure meaning, that they can't be recovered by someone who knows what their doing?
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[04:25] <ZeroCool> rideout did you get that
[04:29] <rideout> ZeroCool: no
[04:30] <ZeroCool> Yes, secure delete NO-ONE can recover it, NO-ONE nor NO-Thing Gone forever...
[04:38] <rideout> ZeroCool: i've sent you some ideas and solutions in private chat
[04:39] <Riddell> Tonio_: you can try 3.5.5 if you want but it didn't work for me
[04:40] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'm just building, let's see what happens
[04:41] <Tonio_> Riddell: I was thinking about the view mode switcher button in konq.... lots of people seem to prefer the 3 buttons mode, since that allow quick switch between several views
[04:41] <Tonio_> Riddell: I know you don't want to have too many buttons in the bar, and I just found this :http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php?content=47354&PHPSESSID=7b6de2894cebccf264d5d4e6edb86a4e
[04:41] <ZeroCool> rideout: got them, however I try to sent some messages back, but they where block , some spam filter is on.
[04:41] <Jucato> Tonio_: they prefer the 3 buttons over your single button solution?
[04:42] <Tonio_> stop/reload button merged, so that switching back to 3 modes button would only cost one more button than now
[04:42] <Riddell> Tonio_: something to look at
[04:42] <Tonio_> Jucato: looks like yes, especially for quick change
[04:42] <Tonio_> Riddell: yes, that's of course for edgy+1, but I'm starting collecting ideas
[04:42] <Jucato> Tonio_: they're crazy, then! :P
[04:43] <Jucato> doesn't Opera merge the stop/reload button, too?
[04:43] <Tonio_> Jucato: bah, I can understanf the point when you switch very often, 3 buttons (at least 2 makes sense
[04:43] <Tonio_> Jucato: yes opera does, and that's a good idea in my opinion
[04:43] <rideout> ZeroCool: no filters on my side
[04:43] <Jucato> hm... but if you switch very often, wouldn't keyboard shortcuts be even faster? oh well :)
[04:44] <Tonio_> the point is having 3 buttons isn't that a problem if we reduce the bar space usage on the oposite side
[04:44] <Tonio_> Jucato: bah they like clicking :)
[04:44] <ZeroCool> it must be on my side.. odd
[04:44] <Jucato> lol
[04:44] <Tonio_> Jucato: but there are at least 2 launchpad bugs, confirmed by lots of people, that ask for 3 buttons back....
[04:45] <Jucato> Tonio_: and I presume they seen/tried the single button solution you made?
[04:45] <Tonio_> Jucato: sure
[04:45] <Jucato> ah ok :)
[04:47] <Tonio_> Riddell: strange indeed.... it doesn't find libgcj.so, in libgcj7-dev, installed by builddep java-gcj-compat-dev
[04:47] <Tonio_> doesn't make sense.......
[04:47] <Riddell> that's why I didn't update to 3.5.5
[04:51] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'll investigate toonight...
[04:51] <Tonio_> Riddell: the amazing thing is that 3.5.4 ftbfs too
[04:51] <Tonio_> it build before but fails, probably due to 3.5.5 deps
[04:58] <Tonio_> Riddell: I confirm libgcj.so isn't in /usr/lib during the build...... let's understand why...
[05:00] <ZeroCool> now, for the major problem: is there a fix for going into system, select monitor & display ?
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[05:01] <rideout> ZeroCool: user questions for #kubuntu
[05:02] <ZeroCool> oh, thought this was also reporting bugs
[05:05] <Tonio_> Riddell: libgcj7-dev content has changed... /usr/lib/gcc/i486-linux-gnu/4.1.2/libgij.so -> ../../../libgij.so.70
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[05:05] <Tonio_> that's probably an issue in the package I assume
[05:05] <rideout> ZeroCool: malone is for bugs, but yes, this is for discussing them, what what is wrong with monitor & display ?
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[05:06] <Riddell> Tonio_: I seem to remember that even if I manually added the libgij.so symlink it failed later on
[05:06] <ZeroCool> goto: system setting, select monitor & display, get message, saying module could not load
[05:07] <Tonio_> Riddell: ah ?
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[05:08] <Tonio_> Riddell: but should we fix libgcj7-dev first ? that'll probably impact lots of packages no ?
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[05:11] <Riddell> Tonio_: doko may have had a reason for removing it
[05:11] <rideout> ZeroCool: that is an issue either with kde-guidance or python, are you using edgy or dapper?
[05:12] <ZeroCool> using edgy 6.10 
[05:12] <Tonio_> Riddell: hum probably...
[05:12] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'm trying to add the symlink during the build process
[05:12] <Tonio_> we'll see what happens
[05:14] <Riddell> you can't do that, only root can do that
[05:14] <Riddell> unless you mean build of libgij
[05:14] <sebas> ZeroCool: Can you try "kcmshell displayconfig" please?
[05:14] <sebas> That gives meaningful errors in the best case.
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[05:16] <ZeroCool> yeah, its the same error fail to load monitor & display module
[05:16] <ZeroCool> ImportError: No module named displayconfig
[05:16] <ZeroCool> error: ***failed to import module
[05:16] <ZeroCool> rick@KB32bit:~$    
[05:18] <dinosaur-rus> I have problems with compiling 32-bit apps that use X Window system (Wine, particularly)
[05:19] <sebas> Hm, it doesn't even find it.
[05:19] <sebas> So python-related stuff is OK.
[05:20] <nixternal> hrmm...i thought that error was gone
=== sebas shoves the bug in the direction of nixternal.
[05:21] <nixternal> it went away for me almost 2 weeks ago i would say
=== nixternal shoves the bug back ;)
=== nixternal checks his system settings
[05:22] <nixternal> works here
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[05:22] <ZeroCool> sebas, what do you think about the error
[05:22] <nixternal> ZeroCool: i am willing to bet that User Management and Disk & Filesystems is bad as well
[05:22] <ZeroCool> ??
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[05:22] <nixternal> in system settings, check user management and see if you get that same error
[05:23] <ZeroCool> user managment YES, bad
[05:23] <nixternal> same with advanced Disk & Filesystems
[05:23] <ZeroCool> DISK & Filesystem too, YES BAD
[05:23] <nixternal> and there is another one that is bad as well in the advanced section, however i can't remember what it is
[05:23] <ZeroCool> okay, what up
[05:23] <ZeroCool> as they say
[05:24] <nixternal> hehe
[05:24] <ZeroCool> someone fell asleep in the last distro
[05:24] <nixternal> recent updates fixed this for me
[05:24] <ZeroCool> did all mine.. nope
[05:24] <nixternal> i think it was due to a muckup in a apt-get upgrade
[05:24] <ZeroCool> aptitude update
[05:25] <ZeroCool> every hour
[05:25] <nixternal> ya, well that will keep her up to date for sure
[05:25] <sebas> ZeroCool: I'm ignorant. It's a packaging issue.
[05:25] <nixternal> im checking my logs to try and see when mine was fixed
[05:25] <nixternal> lol sebas, you are far from ignorant
[05:25] <ZeroCool> k,
[05:25] <sebas> Are you running some strange thing, amd64, ppc or something?
[05:25] <sebas> nixternal: If you say so :)
[05:26] <nixternal> hehe
[05:26] <ZeroCool> nope, drop that 64bit stuff, running straight i386
[05:26] <nixternal> well, someone else had the same issue with ppc when i had it with i386
=== sebas goes home to have dinner that's called like a disease.
[05:26] <ZeroCool> there where more issues with 64bit
[05:26] <sebas> Alogobie
=== sebas runs out.
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[05:27] <ZeroCool> so, how come nixternal system is working and ours are not?
[05:27] <rideout> ZeroCool: i had similar issues and the problem for me was python, i reinstalled all my python-* stuff and it worked
[05:27] <ZeroCool> pyton ? you mean reload python itself
[05:27] <nixternal> ya, it was python related...a python-central error i believe
[05:28] <ZeroCool> okay, give me the command line snytax to re-install all the python stuff
[05:28] <rideout> i had to manually delete /usr/share/python-support/ and reinstall for it all to work
[05:29] <ZeroCool> and then
[05:29] <ZeroCool> wouldn't this break other packages, that have python libs
[05:30] <Tonio_> Riddell: I removed patch 040-configure-give-kde_java_libgcjdir.diff
[05:30] <rideout> ZeroCool: it did in my case for some python programs, like meld, but not others
[05:30] <Tonio_> Riddell: that helped passing the configure correctly....
[05:30] <Tonio_> the build is going on, let's see what happens
[05:30] <Riddell> Tonio_: cross fingers
[05:31] <ZeroCool> man, I not looking to do a hack, or hack / patch to the system
[05:31] <nixternal> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kde-guidance/+bug/62223
[05:31] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62223 in kde-guidance "Monitor & Display, User Management, Disk & Filesystems - All Broken" [Undecided,Fix released]  
[05:31] <nixternal> there is that bugger
[05:32] <dinosaur-rus> hmmm, can anyone help me with my problem?
[05:32] <rideout> dinosaur-rus: what is your problem?
[05:32] <ZeroCool> they have not fix it...
[05:33] <dinosaur-rus> rideout: I have problems with compiling 32-bit apps that use X Window system (Wine, particularly) - linker looks in /usr/lib with 64-bit libraries
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[05:33] <rideout> ZeroCool: do you have python 2.3,2.4 or 2.5 installed, you should at lease have 2.4...
[05:35] <rideout> dinosaur-rus: i don't know how to work with 32/64 bit stuff, good luck!
[05:35] <ZeroCool> what is that pyton -v ( for version )
[05:35] <ZeroCool> pyhon
[05:35] <ZeroCool> python
[05:35] <ZeroCool> one more time... is it python -v
[05:36] <dinosaur-rus> rideout: it's the linker problem... :P
[05:36] <ZeroCool> got python 2.4.4 installed
[05:37] <rideout> ZeroCool: what do you get for ls /usr/bin/python*
[05:41] <ZeroCool> hmm, don't know if I did this right, but no file or directory
[05:42] <ZeroCool> I get this: /usr/bin/python ( back )
[05:43] <rideout> run "ls /usr/bin/python*" 
[05:43] <rideout> without the qoutes
[05:45] <ZeroCool> k
[05:46] <ZeroCool> got this /usr/bin/python  /usr/bin/python2.4
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[05:49] <Tonio_> Riddell: still building :) cross fingers with me !!
[05:51] <Tonio_> I really wonder why we ship kaudiocreator and kscd... they duplicate amarok, kaffeine K3B
[05:52] <Riddell> what's duplicated?
[05:52] <Tonio_> and kaudiocreator is really slow (40 min to rip a cd while k3B takes 4 minutes) and has no gui tools to configure encoding settings....
[05:52] <Tonio_> kaudiocreator -> ripping a cd can be done with konqueror, k3b, kaffeine
[05:52] <Tonio_> and honnestly, kaudiocretor is nasty to configure, and amazingly slow...
[05:53] <Tonio_> and kscd duplicated amarok who can read audiocds very easilly too
[05:53] <Tonio_> Riddell: http://www.google.fr/search?q=kaudiocreator+slow&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8 and speed issues in kaudiocreator are whidely known...
[05:54] <ZeroCool> rideout: you got it python 2.4
[05:54] <Tonio_> Riddell: build successfull :)
[05:54] <Tonio_> Riddell: hehe
[05:54] <Tonio_> Riddell: can I ping mdz or kamion directly or does it need uvf er ?
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[06:00] <mhb> Riddell: any progress with the bugs I keep bugging about? :o)
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[06:05] <Tonio_> Riddell: according to mdz it is too late to upgrade to 355
[06:05] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'm fixing 354 package since the fix is the same
[06:06] <Jucato> Tonio_: does that mean Edgy will be released with KDE 3.5.4 only?
[06:07] <Tonio_> Jucato: no that concerns kdebindings
[06:07] <Jucato> ah ok. :)
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[06:12] <Lure> Tonio_: I agree - we should have kubuntu-simplify-multimedia spec for edgy+1
[06:13] <Lure> Tonio_: we should look complete picture (from media players, rippers, browser plugins...)
[06:13] <Tonio_> Lure: yeah, 2 ripping solutions are enought
[06:14] <Tonio_> konqueror is very easy and a bit slow, and k3b is more complicated but powerfull and performant
[06:14] <Tonio_> that's enough in my opinion
[06:14] <Tonio_> if I could I would even patch kaffeine to remove the ripping options
[06:15] <ZeroCool> fabo: got the url link: can't post replies as of yet, how does one install this..
[06:15] <Lure> Tonio_: yep, duplication is an issue in FOSS ;-)
[06:15] <Lure> Tonio_: but we have at least a choice ;-)
[06:15] <Tonio_> Lure: hehe, yes :)
[06:15] <Tonio_> Lure: you are there in uds no ? we can discuss this then
[06:15] <Lure> Tonio_: yep, I am there
[06:16] <Tonio_> Lure: okay let's book this then !
[06:16] <fabo> ZeroCool: i'm testing it right now on my edgy
[06:17] <Tonio_> Lure: and also we need to free space on the cd because that'll handicap further development
[06:17] <ZeroCool> k, how does one install it...
[06:17] <Tonio_> that's something we have to discuss too, and removing duplication is one of the solutions
[06:17] <Lure> Tonio_: true, but kscd and kaudiocreator does not bring us much (I already checked last time when we discussed digikamplugins)
[06:18] <fabo> ZeroCool: dpkg -i kde-guidance_0.7.0-1ubuntu1_i386.deb
[06:18] <fabo> ZeroCool: wait, i test it before you screw up your system :)
[06:20] <Tonio_> Lure: well for example we don't ship imagemagik which is required for certain kipi-plugins options
[06:20] <Tonio_> Lure: kaudiocreator + kscd size is the same than imagemagik :)
[06:20] <Tonio_> that's what I would do for example
=== Lure -> home - bbl
[06:20] <Tonio_> Lure: seya
[06:21] <Tonio_> Lure: I'll probably write a spec concerning multimedia simplication
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[06:26] <fabo> ZeroCool: seems okk for me
[06:27] <fabo> ZeroCool: you can try to install :)
[06:28] <Tonio_> fabo: just saw your transcode package, we need that in universe !
[06:28] <Tonio_> fabo: can you ping us to revu it at the very begining of edgy+1 dev cycle ?
[06:28] <fabo> Tonio_: sure
[06:29] <Tonio_> fabo: just concerning the build options, will that go in multiverse or not ?
[06:29] <fabo> fabo: universe
[06:29] <Tonio_> I think you built it with the maximum formats enabled didn't you ?
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[06:29] <Tonio_> fabo: ah ? it only recommends mencoder and other binaries then ?
[06:30] <Tonio_> I don't remember the complete packaging
[06:30] <fabo> yes, i used all package available
[06:30] <Tonio_> fabo: then it you have deps on multiverse components, it'll go in multiverse
[06:30] <fabo> i've doen a readme with format supported
[06:30] <fabo> done
[06:31] <Tonio_> fabo: well we'll make a point when we can upload it ;) but I really would like to have that in the repos
[06:32] <fabo> Tonio_: i'm packaging also another alternative -> soundkonverter
[06:33] <fabo> ZeroCool: i'm leaving in approximatively 5 minutes) could you confirm bug resolution plz :)
[06:33] <Tonio_> fabo: I have already done a package for this no ?
[06:34] <Tonio_> maybe it is not up to date now we're in freeze, but you should use my package as a base
[06:34] <Tonio_> it is in multiverse
[06:34] <fabo> Tonio_: already done :) it is based on yours, then sync'ed with mine :p
[06:34] <Tonio_> fabo: you are the man :)
[06:35] <Tonio_> fabo: I just noticed I was included in kde-extra debian team during introduction in akademy ;)
[06:35] <Tonio_> that surprised me since I never uploaded anything to debian (although I regularly contact debian maintainers to get my changes in)
[06:36] <fabo> Tonio_: ah i wasn't aware, i was really busy since akademy
[06:37] <Tonio_> fabo: hehe, that just surprized me to see my name on the pdf document...
[06:37] <Tonio_> maybe I was in because lots of my changes have been added to debian packages I don't know...
[06:37] <Tonio_> allee: I'll subscribe to alioth toonight, for info (finally)
[06:37] <fabo> you've got a link to the pdf, i didn't read it yet
[06:38] <Tonio_> fabo: let me find it
[06:39] <Tonio_> fabo: http://conference2006.kde.org/conference/slides/debian_kde_extras_aKademy2006.pdf
[06:39] <allee> Tonio_: we'll see ;)
[06:40] <bobesponja> does anyone know why I get little square instead of quotes ' ?
[06:40] <bobesponja> like this http://p80.free.fr/konqy.png
[06:40] <bobesponja> I'm on 3.5.5 with edgy
[06:40] <Tonio_> allee: when I promiss something I do it :) I never promissed till now
[06:41] <Riddell> abattoir: just did a complete oem install, works beautifully
[06:41] <allee> Tonio_: :)
[06:41] <Tonio_> allee: well it looks like I'm already considered as part of the kde-extra team somehow (don't ask me why but that's it) so I need an account now ;)
[06:41] <abattoir> Riddell: great :)
[06:41] <DaSkreech> How does Debian Firefox/Thunderbird affect Ubuntu?
[06:42] <Jucato> lol! didn't know abattoir was not "away" :)
[06:42] <Tonio_> allee: look at the pdf, "Team" section.... I don't understand that, but that's it ;)
[06:42] <allee> Tonio_: are you this 'forgotten his name' in the mail about basket ;)
[06:42] <abattoir> Jucato: away from IRC for a few days ;)
[06:42] <allee> Tonio_: PDF?
[06:42] <Jucato> heh :)
[06:43] <allee> Tonio_: ah the url above
[06:43] <Tonio_> allee: yes
=== Lure [n=lure@ubuntu/member/lure]  has joined #kubuntu-devel
=== allee wonder is Belinda is a human or made of gum (slide 8)
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[06:50] <fabo> ZeroCool: i must go
[06:50] <fabo> if someone want to test : http://fboudra.free.fr/ubuntu/kde-guidance_0.7.0-1ubuntu1/
[06:50] <fabo> Tonio_: thks for the link :)
[06:51] <fabo> see you later
[06:51] <Tonio_> fabo: seya
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[07:02] <Riddell> mhb: the strings issue looks like a general problem with the .desktop translations, I have half a fix for it but I need to work on it some more
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[07:02] <Riddell> mhb: still to look at hwdb translations, although maybe we could ask mvo to look at it since he did that before
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[07:12] <ZeroCool> fabo: ask how does one install it via apt-get ?
[07:13] <ZeroCool> is it tested
[07:13] <ZeroCool> ran out
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[07:24] <Tonio_> Riddell: I uploaded a fixed kdebindings 3.5.4
[07:24] <Tonio_> Riddell: upgrade should now work for 3.5.5 if you reuse that package
[07:24] <Riddell> Tonio_: did mdz look at the debdiff first?
[07:25] <Tonio_> Riddell: yes, he was okay, but he told me is was too late for upstream update
[07:25] <Tonio_> so I fixed 3.5.4 package
[07:25] <Riddell> Tonio_: just removed the same patch from 3.5.4?
[07:26] <Tonio_> Riddell: yes
[07:26] <Tonio_> that was the fix
[07:27] <Riddell> thanks Tonio_ 
[07:27] <Tonio_> Riddell: you're welcome :)
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[07:32] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'll probably write 3 specs for the UDS
[07:34] <Tonio_> Riddell: kubuntu-multimedia-simplification, kubuntu-samba-integration and kubuntu-voip-solution
[07:34] <Tonio_> Riddell: are you okay for those subjects to be discussed ?
[07:34] <Riddell> Tonio_: sure
[07:34] <Tonio_> great
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[08:03] <Tm_T> Hmm, when next LTS release is coming?
[08:04] <Riddell> we don't know yet
[08:04] <Tm_T> I see
[08:04] <DaSkreech> I would guess infour cycles?
[08:05] <Riddell> there's no set time for it
[08:05] <Riddell> http://yamefa.linux.free.fr/  another kubuntu derived distro
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[08:09] <abattoir> shiny :P
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[08:17] <claydoh> what no Konversation in yamefa???
[08:17] <claydoh> I am shocked and stunned!
[08:18] <claydoh> buy it is shiny:)
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[08:23] <DaSkreech> claydoh: I think the expression is shocked and in awe
[08:24] <claydoh> awe?
[08:24] <claydoh> as in awe, shucks do I have to use Xchat?
[08:25] <sebas> irssi!
[08:26] <claydoh> so we can have yamefa, sebasOS and of course claydOS
[08:26] <mhb> anyone considered inclusion of kdict in the edgy+1?
[08:26] <DaSkreech> 3.5.5. shipping with Edgy?
[08:26] <sebas> DaSkreech: The other way round, KDE doesn't ship linux :>
[08:26] <Riddell> kopete would be the alternative they leave in] 
[08:27] <mhb> I know, little place and all ... but Ubuntu already contains a DICT client
[08:27] <DaSkreech> Sebas it ships with it :)
[08:28] <sebas> DaSkreech: Nope, Edgy ships with KDE, not KDE with Edgy :P
[08:29] <DaSkreech> Yes but KDE ships with Linux :)
=== abattoir remembers Riddell once saying "Konqueror is our dictionary app..."
[08:29] <sebas> No, it doesn't (pointless word fucking)
[08:30] <sebas> Distros ship Linux with KDE.
[08:30] <DaSkreech> Until KDE4 which should in theory work on Windows
[08:30] <sebas> What about BSD then?
[08:30] <sebas> Solaris?
[08:30] <DaSkreech> >_<
=== sebas feels squeezed now :)
[08:30] <DaSkreech> Edgy shipping with 3.5.5?
[08:31] <sebas> Yes
[08:31] <DaSkreech> Good :0
[08:31] <DaSkreech> :-)
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[08:58] <Tonio_> Riddell: how many kubuntu derivatives are actually known ?
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[08:59] <Tonio_> I'm always wondering why so many distros do exist.... foss would be better if more people would concentrate on a less number of projects
[08:59] <Tonio_> s/less/few
[09:01] <Riddell> Tonio_: http://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuDerivedDistros
[09:01] <toma> Tonio_: did you sign up for debian kde-extra's ?
[09:01] <Riddell> up to 10
[09:01] <Tonio_> toma: I will today, I promissed :)
[09:01] <Tonio_> Riddell: totally crazy.......
[09:02] <Tonio_> can you imagin the power of kubuntu if all those guys where helping us directly instead of duplicate again and again ? ;)
[09:02] <jdong> aww... there goes jdongbuntu.... :(
[09:03] <Riddell> well some of them are, e.g. ichthux
[09:03] <Tonio_> although certain projects like ulteo are providing something new
[09:03] <Riddell> and some of them can't e.g. mepis which is based on not caring about copyright
[09:04] <jdong> lol, nice summary of Mepis :)
[09:04] <ZeroCool> I notice in Kubuntu there are allot of reduntant apps, are some going to be filter out?
[09:04] <Tonio_> Riddell: yeah I agree, but I wonder what's the purpose of Yamefa for example.... if it is just a set of graphical elements and changing 3 programs by default, that doesn't require a new complete distro to be maintained.... well that's my opinion
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[09:05] <Riddell> you're right there
[09:05] <Tonio_> ZeroCool: yes I just discussed about that this afternoon
[09:05] <jdong> Tonio_: how would you suggest customizations off k/ubuntu to be done then?
[09:05] <Riddell> ZeroCool: like what?
[09:05] <Tonio_> ZeroCool: talking about the multimedia part or anything else ?
[09:05] <ZeroCool> k
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[09:05] <Tonio_> jdong: a kde theme packaged
[09:06] <ZeroCool> like konversation & KSirc
[09:06] <Tonio_> and if you want distros that already mix gnome and kde, you have the choice with fedora, mandriva, suse etc......
[09:06] <Riddell> ksirc isn't in kubuntu by default
[09:06] <Tonio_> ZeroCool: ksirc isn't installed by default
[09:06] <jdong> Tonio_: if I were to, say, make a jdongbuntu-desktop metapackage and a Kjdongbuntu metapackage, would there be any chance of acceptance? ;-)
[09:06] <ZeroCool> understand by default, however, its in the mix
[09:07] <Tonio_> jdong: why not, but I wouldn't see the point in doing that...
[09:07] <ZeroCool> same with media players....
[09:07] <ZeroCool> which one, hmmm
[09:07] <Riddell> ZeroCool: no, ksirc is in universe
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[09:07] <Tonio_> jdong: I prefer to push kubuntu-desktop to what I think is the best instead of forking with a tonio_desktop :)
[09:07] <jdong> Tonio_: on a typical fresh install, the first 30 minutes of my customization process is basically enabling universe/multiverse and installing packages :)
[09:07] <Riddell> ZeroCool: what about media players?
[09:07] <Tonio_> ZeroCool: yes, we have 2 media players
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[09:08] <Tonio_> kaffeine and kmplayer, and we target to have one only, but that'll have to wait for oskar (kmplayer replacement)
[09:08] <jdong> Tonio_: and a lot of the stuff I pull in are multiverse / universe, and thus not suitable for the average kubuntu-desktop
[09:08] <ZeroCool> use, the following: (test them: kaffeine, mplayer, kmplayer, Noatun...)
[09:08] <Tonio_> jdong: yes I know, but well, we are not going to have one distro per software combinason by the end !
[09:09] <Tonio_> ZeroCool: noatun is not by default, mplayer too
[09:09] <jdong> Tonio_: right, I agree, but what is a distro and what is a customization of ubuntu? ;)
[09:09] <ZeroCool> understood, however, it would applear mplayer does more..
[09:09] <Tonio_> ZeroCool: if you talk about duplication, please talk about the softwares provided by kubuntu-desktop ;)
[09:09] <jdong> Tonio_: if I respun some DVD's with Java and codecs, I'd personally still call it Ubuntu/Kubuntu
[09:09] <Tonio_> jdong: kubuntu is a distro, Yamefa is a customisation of ubuntu ;)
[09:09] <jdong> I wouldnt' consider it a new distro
[09:10] <Tonio_> the different is really easy to figure out
[09:10] <ZeroCool> it trying out apps, to see what really works, AND what really does not...
[09:10] <ZeroCool> So, hence... the different media players..
[09:10] <ZeroCool> I really like moc for playing mp3, flac...etc
[09:11] <ZeroCool> its a command line app
[09:21] <claydoh> I like the *-desktop idea, I could spin my own desktop setup and such, then in a reposomewhere just have a claydOS-desktop metapackage
[09:21] <claydoh> custom K-D -s wallpapers, etc
[09:22] <claydoh> why would I want to have to work involved in supporting a whole distro
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[09:29] <jdong> claydoh: respinning a CD is not the work of supporting a whole distro...
[09:29] <claydoh> but if you set up a whole site, forums wiki, etc it can be
[09:29] <jdong> claydoh: now if you built a full clone of archive.ubuntu.com, then fine, you've made your own distro...
[09:30] <jdong> claydoh: well, bombing current support channels / resources with questions specific to your customization isn't all that nice either ;-)
[09:31] <claydoh> but not if its just colors, graphics, etc
[09:31] <jdong> and any customizations beyond trivial colors/graphics/default package changes can easily generate bugs
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[09:54] <steveire_> hey. I want to make a new applet for the system tray. Where do I start>
[09:54] <Sime> Riddell: ping
[09:54] <Riddell> hi Sime 
[09:55] <Tonio_> hey Sime ;)
[09:55] <Sime> Riddell: what is this story about libhal and 3.5.5?
[09:55] <Riddell> steveire_: #kde-devel
[09:55] <Sime> Riddell: is there some weirdness going on?
[09:55] <ryanakca> how do I uninstall kde 4? or can I just leave it and not worry about any problems?
[09:55] <steveire_> cheers
[09:55] <Riddell> Sime: not that I know of
[09:56] <Sime> http://tsdgeos.blogspot.com/2006/10/solution-for-kubuntu-355-and-usb-not.html
[09:56] <Sime> Riddell: I'm just wondering.
[09:57] <ryanakca> Riddell: have you had a chance to look at licence plates yet? (just in case one of the 6 isn't "perfect"), anything I can add, remove, change?
[09:57] <Riddell> Sime: oh, that's dapper
[09:58] <Riddell> I need to add the newer dbus to the repo
[09:58] <Riddell> ryanakca: URL?
[09:58] <ryanakca> Riddell: http://rkavanagh.homelinux.org/~ryan/kubuntu/ (8-14).png
[09:59] <Sime> Riddell: and edgy has been using the newer version of hal for a while now, I assume?
[09:59] <Riddell> Sime: yes
[10:01] <Riddell> ryanakca: I think 5 is as good as any
[10:01] <ryanakca> Riddell: sure? kk
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[10:08] <Sime> Tonio_: I'm seeing strange "konq not refreshing" issues now.
[10:08] <Sime> Riddell: you might be interested in this.
[10:09] <Sime> I've got a few partitions here, and if I park konq in /media/backup1 then I can see the contents (GOOD, NORMAL)
[10:09] <Sime> now from the console I sudo umount that partition. Konq now shows an empty dir (GOOD).
[10:10] <Sime> I mount that partition. Konq does not automatically refresh to show the contents... (BAD)
[10:10] <Tonio_> Sime: fantastic, you finally finished patching for audiocd then ?
[10:11] <Sime> Tonio_: I've patched up the audiocd stuff, then I noticed this problem.
[10:11] <Tonio_> Sime: yes I tested here, and it works nicelly for umount but not for mount
[10:11] <Sime> yeah, that is what I'm seeing.
[10:11] <Tonio_> Sime: but refreshing works for folders for example, no issues there
[10:11] <Sime> it has nothing to do with media, just with mounting and konq
[10:11] <Tonio_> that's why me yesterday tests touching a file a on desktop worked
[10:11] <Tonio_> Sime: I know ;)
[10:12] <Tonio_> Sime: as I said this morning, you rock :)
[10:12] <Sime> thanks, but we have still go a problem here...
[10:12] <Sime> anyone know which subsystem KDE uses for dir notification?
[10:13] <Tonio_> Sime: better ask #kde-devel probably no ?
[10:14] <Tonio_> allee: tonio-guest already exists on alioth......... :(
[10:14] <Riddell> Sime: it should use inotify
[10:14] <Tonio_> why is my nick that simple ?
[10:14] <Riddell> in dapper we built against gamin but not any more
[10:14] <fdoving> guys, bug 62223 is still not fixed for me on my ppc box.
[10:14] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62223 in kde-guidance "Monitor & Display, User Management, Disk & Filesystems - All Broken" [Undecided,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62223
[10:14] <fdoving> current edgy.
[10:16] <Sime> fdoving: what do you see when you run "displayconfig" from the shell?
[10:17] <fdoving> then it works.
=== marseillai_ is now known as marseillai
[10:18] <fdoving> 'kcmshell displayconfig' returns this:
[10:18] <fdoving> http://rafb.net/paste/results/SkDvk027.html
[10:19] <fdoving> and it doesn't work.
[10:19] <fdoving> i get the 'Couldn't load module..'-page.. 
[10:20] <orkid__> koffice 1.6 not in edgy yet?
[10:20] <fabo> Sime: after this issue http://rafb.net/paste/results/No6dYF76.html ;)
[10:21] <Sime> fdoving: just run "displayconfig", no kcmshell.
[10:21] <fdoving> Sime: 'displayconfig' works.
[10:21] <Sime> Riddell: it looks like inotify is borken.
[10:22] <fdoving> no errors, and the correct window appears.
[10:22] <Sime> Riddell: install package python-pyinotify, it has a good little test, diagnostic prog.
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[10:24] <jjesse>  /msg nickserv identify jes478SE
[10:24] <fabo> oups
[10:25] <ryanakca> jjesse: ouch... might want to change your password(s) now...
[10:25] <jjesse> doh
[10:25] <jjesse> bummer
[10:25] <Sime> fdoving: it looks like the python interpreter is not starting up from kcmshell. (It is called from out of C++ code)
[10:25] <jjesse> it usually does it automatically :(
[10:25] <ryanakca> jjesse: why don't you just stick it into the konversation startup settings?
[10:25] <ryanakca> ah
[10:25] <fdoving> Sime: anything i can do to find out why? 
[10:26] <ryanakca> hehehe... your nickserv password is much more complicated than mine :)
[10:26] <jjesse> ah but its one i've memorized :)
[10:26] <jjesse> but i just changed it
[10:26] <ryanakca> lol
[10:27] <Sime> fdoving: run "ldd /usr/lib/kde3/kcm_displayconfig.so.0.0.0" and put the output somewhere.
[10:27] <Sime> where I can see it.
[10:27] <ryanakca> to all you evil minded people *cough* pointy stick wielders *cough* : jjesse has outsmarted you by changing his password :)
[10:27] <fabo> oh nice, i never notice "/" shortcut in konqueror before ...
=== ryanakca wonders if kubuntu work would count towards volunteer hours...
[10:28] <ryanakca> fabo: what does it do? it shows me 'home' and 'media'
[10:29] <fabo> it's a text search command like firefox
[10:29] <fdoving> Sime: http://ubuntu.lnix.net/misc/ldd_kcm_displayconfig.out
[10:29] <ryanakca> ah
[10:29] <fabo> it is in edit menu also
[10:31] <Sime> fdoving: what arch are you on?
[10:31] <fabo> ppc
[10:31] <fdoving> Sime: ppc.
[10:32] <Sime> 64?
[10:32] <fdoving> no.
[10:32] <fdoving> it's an iBook G4
[10:33] <fdoving> however.. it doesn't work on my i386 box either. 
[10:33] <fdoving> also up2date edgy.
[10:34] <fdoving> looks like the x86 box only got issues with the 'display & monitor' module.. 
[10:34] <fabo> fdoving: i have done a package for i386 : http://fboudra.free.fr/debian/kde-guidance_0.7.0-1/
[10:34] <fabo> tested on my edgy, it works
[10:35] <fdoving> nevermind the x86 issue.. it's just because i run in NX-mode.
[10:35] <fdoving> monitor & display shouldn't work there.
[10:36] <Sime> fdoving: displayconfig will fail on NX.
[10:36] <fdoving> i found out.
[10:36] <fdoving> so, i only have the issue on powerpc.
[10:36] <fabo> fdoving: i suggest that because another guy (nick zeroconf) have an issue on x86
[10:37] <fdoving> fabo: what's different in your kde-guidance package?
[10:39] <fabo> fdoving: nothing interesting, i used sime source archive and rebuild against up2date edgy
[10:39] <fabo> Sime: and source archive provide some typos error in setup.py ...
[10:41] <fabo> fdoving: i changed a bit the rules file but it is for powermanager
[10:44] <allee> Tonio_: sit down, relax and think about a more unique nick ;)
[10:47] <Tonio_> allee: already done hehe :)
[10:47] <allee> Tonio_: heh, heh
[10:48] <allee> Tonio_: tell fabo your new nick.  He modify the commit access file.
[10:49] <allee> fabo: can you login to svn.debian.org and svn up too?
[10:49] <fabo> allee: yes
[10:49] <allee> ^^ as Thu<imposible to remember> explained
[10:50] <fabo> sure i know what to do :)
[10:50] <allee> fabo: sorry ;)
[10:50] <fabo> no no, it isaac fault ;)
[10:51] <fabo> last i remember there's 2 thing to do so i asked isaac: no just update commit file ...
[10:51] <fabo> +time
[10:56] <Tonio_> fabo: tonio-ubuntu-guest
[10:56] <Tonio_> not very original I know, but that's all I've been able to find :)
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[11:03] <fabo> Tonio_: done :p
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[11:07] <allee> Tonio_: welcome 
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[11:08] <allee> fabo: did you had time to look into where kubuntu stuff should be to be picked up by build.net?
[11:09] <fabo> allee: no, i was busy last week so i didn't find time to update the wiki page and the build.net stuff :(
[11:09] <allee> fabo: np
[11:10] <allee> fabo: same problem here :(
[11:12] <Tonio_> fabo, allee: my account isn't confirmed yet, as I didn't receive the validation email
[11:14] <fabo> Tonio_: i don't remember how many time you must wait before alioth account is enabled and synced over servers
[11:15] <fabo> Tonio_: you can ask lo-lan-do (alioth admin) for more informations
[11:16] <allee> Tonio_: please consider: kscd is also usable by your grandma.  amarok is not without help of the grantchild ;)
[11:16] <fabo> ah sorry he isn't connected ...
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[11:20] <Tonio_> allee: heh, indeed but well...
[11:20] <Tonio_> allee: amarok for an audio cd is very simple too
[11:20] <Tonio_> allee: btw that's just a global idea, I don't say that we have to remove kscd :)
[11:24] <toma> do people use kubuntu on openbsd? or is that a weird question?
[11:24] <allee> Tonio_: yeap.  It's hard to find a balance between kscd/codeine and kaffeine/amarok target groups ;)
[11:24] <allee> toma: eh? you mean the openbsd kernel in a kubuntu env?  Weired.  No, I don't 
[11:25] <Tonio_> allee: true, the firsts are noobs softwares and the others 2 are geek softwares
[11:25] <Tonio_> allee: but in my opinion, if my grandmother can use windows media player, she can use amarok
[11:25] <toma> allee: hmm, hmm
[11:25] <Tonio_> allee: it is more a matter of "do we want users that don't want to learn or not"
[11:26] <allee> toma: afaik there only a freebsd port to debian but *ubuntu does not care about this flavour
[11:26] <Tonio_> allee: honnestly, I wouldn't suggest kubuntu for someone who absolutly doesn't want to learn anything and have something as simple as possible
[11:26] <Tonio_> allee: I would suggest ubuntu/gnome
[11:26] <allee> Tonio_: It's much about first time experience
[11:26] <toma> allee: ok, fine, edgy is unaffected then
[11:27] <Tonio_> allee: bah, most people using windows are used to complex multimedia apps (realone player, windows media player, winamp etc....)
[11:27] <Tonio_> allee: most of those are 10 times more complicated than amarok
[11:27] <Tonio_> allee: and btw if we only have *one* audio application, it can be documented widely, that's the point too
[11:28] <allee> Tonio_: seriously, my kids and wife, failed to use amarok and kaffeine -> linux is shit.  With kscd and codeine they are pleased and very happy.
[11:29] <Tonio_> allee: yeah I understand that, but that's a matter of default orientation, as long as they can install apps they want....
[11:29] <Tonio_> allee: osx is supposed to be simple, and has itunes by default for everything related to audio
[11:29] <fdoving> i must say i can't stand amarok and kaffeine myself.
[11:30] <fdoving> waaaay to much stuff.
=== allee nods
[11:30] <fdoving> i just need a music player with a playlist, and a videoplayer that plays whatever i click in konqueror.
[11:30] <Tonio_> allee: if we have an "play the audio cd in amarok" when inserting a cd, that makes it simple
[11:31] <Tonio_> fdoving: what if you don't go in kaffeine menus ? it just plays what you are clicking on in konquror
[11:31] <Tonio_> most of the time that's the way I use it
[11:32] <allee> Tonio_: if amarok can be tweaked to make it very obvious how to play the inserted CD.  That's it ;)
[11:32] <Tonio_> allee: did you play with amarok on edgy ?
[11:32] <Tonio_> allee: lots of useless options have been removed, it is really easier to use now
[11:33] <Tonio_> allee: well what I'm thinking about is you insert a cd, choose "play with amarok" and it launches automatically
[11:33] <Tonio_> this is really feasible
[11:34] <fdoving> Tonio_: might be usable, i haven't used it in a while. codeine is so nice.
[11:34] <Tonio_> fdoving: yes, but limited to xine...
[11:34] <Tonio_> fdoving: doesn't handle subtitles etc.....
[11:34] <Tonio_> fdoving: it is nice for very limited usage, I agree
[11:35] <fdoving> Tonio_: my codeine handles subtitles.
[11:35] <Tonio_> I think most people (even non geeks) have learned how to use complicated softwares now
[11:35] <Tonio_> consider the incredible success of picassa for example
[11:35] <Tonio_> very complex, and even my mother loves it
[11:35] <fdoving> sure, but having simple apps that just does what it should and works is always a good idea.
[11:36] <Tonio_> fdoving: what about a divx with external .str file ? doesn't work
[11:36] <allee> Tonio_: heh, only kscd and kaffeine are offered on my edgy system on 'insert audio cd'
[11:36] <fdoving> i have never seen such a thing. 
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[11:37] <Tonio_> allee: yes, that has to be done or amarok, but that's feasible, as long as we can call amarok with a dcop call to launch the cd reading or soemthing like that
[11:37] <Tonio_> fdoving: bah you play legal files, that's why ;)
[11:37] <Tonio_> fdoving: I have a lot of avi files with subtitles, since I generally prefer to watch with original language
[11:38] <fdoving> Tonio_: kaffeine is da h4x0rz player then :)
[11:38] <Tonio_> fdoving: yes :)
[11:39] <Tonio_> but honnestly, kaffeine isn't that complicated....... that because you go in the config menus etc....
[11:39] <fabo> kaffeine isn't only a media player compared to other player
[11:39] <fdoving> no, it's way better now, than a few months back.
[11:39] <Tonio_> my girlfriend for example uses it very basically, she never plays with options, and doesn't find it complicated
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[11:40] <fabo> she never used DVB support ;)
[11:41] <Tonio_> fabo: nope :)
[11:41] <Tonio_> fabo: is that complicated to use ?
[11:41] <Tonio_> I though kaffeine had a superb dvb support
[11:41] <fabo> one of the best
[11:42] <fabo> upstream is focused on the DVB support more than media player capabilities
[11:44] <Tonio_> allee: but I agree, simplifying the multimedia part on kubuntu is hard to figure out and needs debatting, that's why I only gave example on the wiki page
[11:47] <Tonio_> https://launchpad.net/bugs/66620
[11:47] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 66620 in kaffeine "Kaffeine DVB stopped working in latest edgy " [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
[11:47] <Tonio_> pfffffff those bugs really make me shit....
[11:47] <Tonio_> "I'm using XGL + Compiz and I cry because I have an issue with kaffeine"
[11:47] <Tonio_> then don't use alpha state software like xgl.........
[11:48] <nixternal> imbrandon: i need a bip server, mine went up in a blaze of glory
[11:50] <imbrandon> nixternal, let me wakeup; a bit and i'll set you one up
[11:50] <nixternal> im just messin'
[11:50] <nixternal> mine died during our little comed explosion here in chicago
[11:50] <nixternal> surge protectors don't work as they are supposed to
[11:50] <imbrandon> heh brb shower
[11:51] <nixternal> about time ;)
[11:51] <imbrandon> nixternal, sarah ( the mexi ) kept me up late, i'm just now wakin up
[11:51] <nixternal> gahahhaa
[11:51] <nixternal> omgbum
[11:51] <imbrandon> heh
[11:53] <allee> Tonio_: yes, finding a solution for noops and geeks is far from easy.  But it's not only releated to multimedia.  kedit/kword, kview/krita, gwenview/digikam etc
[11:53] <Tonio_> kview/krita ?
[11:54] <Tonio_> whay is kview ?
[11:54] <Tonio_> never seen this
[11:55] <allee> Tonio_: kview was a simple show this picture viewer.
[11:56] <Tonio_> bah, to be compared to gwenview then, not krita :)
[11:56] <Riddell> kpaint/krita
[11:56] <Tonio_> Riddell: yes, or kolourpaint
[11:56] <Tonio_> maybe it is the same ? :)
[11:57] <allee> Tonio_, Riddell: more good examples ;)
[11:58] <allee> Maybe a 'Open with' in the apps or a common sub description like 'simple, easy' versus expert, power' or what used common
[11:58] <allee> categorie of apps can help here
[11:58] <Tonio_> allee: better having 2 desktops files then :)
[11:58] <Tonio_> kubuntu-desktop-expert and kubuntu-desktop-easy :
[11:58] <Tonio_> ;)
[11:58] <allee> Tonio_: lol
[11:59] <Tonio_> allee: in my opinion, when I see the softwares that are used on windows by noobs, I don't think kaffeine or amarok could be an issue
[11:59] <Tonio_> krita is different, since it is very strange to use, very special (and complicated)
[12:00] <Tonio_> honnestly, if my syster can use itunes/ipod, she can use amarok :)
[12:01] <Riddell> I have trouble with amarok
[12:01] <allee> Tonio_: it's just a matter how long it takes
[12:02] <imbrandon> yea amarok is trickey if you do some of the advanced features
[12:02] <Tonio_> Riddell: you mean ?
[12:02] <imbrandon> like DAAP etc
[12:02] <Tonio_> the point is do we want a grandmothabuntu or supergeekbuntu
[12:02] <Tonio_> I think a compromise is possible
[12:02] <allee> Tonio_: both
[12:02] <Riddell> we want a worksforeveryonekubuntu
[12:02] <imbrandon> Tonio_, both, linux for humans ;)
[12:03] <Tonio_> Riddell: I agree, but for the same reason than simplicity <> security, I would say than functionnalities <> simplicity
[12:03] <imbrandon> btw moins Riddell Tonio_ allee
[12:03] <Tonio_> imbrandon: ;)
[12:03] <Tonio_> in my opinion, we should provide accessible apps, that's true
[12:04] <allee> Tonio_: if amarok can be made 'easy' for noobs when an audio cd is inserted.  GREAT! Get rid of kscd.  If not, sadly, keep both
[12:04] <allee> imbrandon: :)
[12:04] <Tonio_> but I don't care people that "don't want to understand and learn anything in front of the computer"
[12:04] <Tonio_> I had to learn for my car licence, and that's the same for computers
[12:05] <Tonio_> I don't want to consider the 40% of windows users who don't use an antivirus in 11/2006
[12:05] <imbrandon> you dident have to learn to watch tv, and computers are entertainment for some , just as a tv
[12:05] <Tonio_> 40%........ I was about to die when I read this.....
[12:05] <allee> Tonio_: but you would complain it, it learn a car you would need an education like for an areoplane :)
[12:05] <Tonio_> imbrandon: bah, have you used a recent tv ? they are complicated to use
[12:05] <Tonio_> imbrandon: same for cellphones etc......
[12:06] <imbrandon> heh yea i have a 62 inch rca infronty of me, many options and intutive are diffrent, it can have many many options and featuires and still be easy to use ;)
[12:06] <fdoving> it's not that users can't figure out how to do stuff. but they want it to be easy, fast and painless.
[12:07] <Tonio_> fdoving: the point is "what means simple" ???
[12:07] <Tonio_> people find windows easy
[12:07] <allee> Tonio_: I agree, one has to learn if one what's to get most out of the computer.  But many don't care. They just want to 'play this CD/DVD'
[12:07] <Tonio_> they have 400 spywares installed, 4 IE toolbars, buttons everywhere etc......
[12:07] <Tonio_> they don't understand anything of their computer, but they claim windows is easy
[12:07] <Tonio_> that's just a matter of "beeing used to", nothing else
[12:07] <allee> Tonio_: show them codeine.  My Fam never ask for windows since they first used codeine.
[12:08] <imbrandon> no for the most part people dont find windows easy, they find trhe taskes they do daily like play a dvd or cd easy but the OS is complicated , ask one of them to run chkdsk on next boot, or add a new user, they will shit
[12:08] <Tonio_> people prefer norton antivirus to another one.... that sounds crazy because it is completly ununderstandable, but they are used too
[12:09] <imbrandon> Tonio_, exactly its not whats easy, its what they are used to
[12:09] <imbrandon> we are trying to make it easy ( but not dumbed down for the expers too )
[12:09] <Tonio_> allee: I like codeine too :) don't forget I did the package with you, and I use it too, the point is just that is doesn't support gstreamer, which is an issue (and is unmaintained)
[12:09] <Tonio_> imbrandon: easy doesn't exist in my opinion
[12:09] <imbrandon> Tonio_, your exactly right, thus we have "jobs" to do ;)
[12:10] <Tonio_> everything is a matter of beeing used to or not
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[12:10] <imbrandon> if it was already easy we wouldent be doing this would we ;)
[12:10] <Tonio_> intuitive may exist, but not "easy"
[12:11] <Tonio_> look at photoshop
[12:11] <imbrandon> well imho those go hand in hand, if i can figure out how to use it without reading the readme , its easy ( but a better word is intutive )
[12:11] <Tonio_> how many people, totally noobs winth windows, are using it, simply because they had too ?
[12:11] <imbrandon> yea it took me many years to get good at photoshop
[12:11] <Tonio_> and that a monster software, incredibly complicated
[12:11] <Tonio_> but now they are used too
[12:11] <fdoving> Tonio_: the problem is to force users to get used to the advanced (and probably best) way to do it. Monopoly is the way to go :)