[12:12] <Tonio_> fdoving: I'm not saying that we have to force them, but that we have to find a compromisse
[12:12] <Tonio_> I agree with linus on the point that if you consider your users idiots only idiots will use your softwares....
[12:13] <Tonio_> but that's too elitist too
[12:13] <Tonio_> the idea is compromise for me....
[12:13] <imbrandon> Tonio_, here is my defination of the best middle ground we can hope for, joe uses a complicated app, say a dvd ripper, its "easy" enough where he /can/ rip a dvd without reading the instructions BUT if he wants more features he should not have to switch apps, he should learn the advanced features of the existing app, thats the problem we have , most simple apps and advanced apps are split
[12:13] <Tonio_> codeine is very nice, I agree, but dvb is now widely used...
[12:13] <Tonio_> how would the users handle dvb if we provide codeine for example ?
[12:14] <allee> Tonio_: no, no. Not _only_ codeine
[12:14] <fdoving> imbrandon: i agree, and i think that's what tonio_ says too.
[12:14] <Tonio_> imbrandon: you said it : reading the instructions
[12:14] <Tonio_> as long as the application is usable "reading the instructions", that's okay
[12:15] <allee> Tonio_: when an app provides a mode when a noop can do the simple stuff great
[12:15] <imbrandon> but you cant expect them to know all the features without reading, only the basic funnctions , enough to get "used": to it
[12:15] <fdoving> using amarok for audiocds still doesn't sound right, though.
[12:15] <Tonio_> but if you want something that works in "idiot mode" don't come to me, since I'll probably  not be ready to help :)
[12:15] <Tonio_> fdoving: 2 clicks......
[12:15] <Tonio_> insert audio cd -> open amarok -> play audio cd
[12:16] <imbrandon> fdoving, why not amarok is an audio player
[12:16] <Tonio_> then we should have an audio cd player, a standalone mp3 player, a collection manager etc........ ?
[12:16] <Tonio_> dozens of millions of noobs are using itune and they are fine with it
[12:17] <Tonio_> just because they HAD to learn because of their ipod
[12:17] <Tonio_> now they are used to it, they claim everywhere that it is simple, but itunes is at least as complicated as amarok
[12:18] <imbrandon> Tonio_, yup i'm with you on that one, i see no need for kscd and with amarok, but i was waiting for mtv to bring alot of that up
[12:18] <Tonio_> who already went in winamp 5 config dialog ? is incredibly complicated too etc.....
[12:18] <imbrandon> anyhow , shower, bbiab
[12:18] <fdoving> imbrandon: amarok is a big beast of a audio player, it's not what i want if i just want to play a audio cd.
[12:19] <Tonio_> fdoving: if I just want to play an audio cd, I do like most people -> cd player at home :)
[12:19] <imbrandon> fdoving, it can be very simple too, moreso than itunes or windows media player on windows
[12:19] <Tonio_> a computer isn't what I want if I just want to play an audio cd :)
[12:19] <Tonio_> computer is the issue then, not amarok :)
[12:20] <allee> fdoving: I don't care about the app behind the scene.  I only care about usability for noops ;)
[12:20] <imbrandon> Tonio_, well thats wrong becosue more people are using the computer for home entertainment
[12:20] <Tonio_> imbrandon: yes, I know (I do) and I consider than 2 clicks to play an audio cd with amarok doesn't make it complicated
[12:20] <imbrandon> exactly
[12:21] <imbrandon> try to play an audio cd in Window media player, its a bear
[12:21] <Tonio_> imbrandon: and that could be simplified with the "action selection" box in kde when you insert the media
[12:21] <imbrandon> and how BBIAB for real
[12:21] <Tonio_> imbrandon: yes, it is complicated in windows media player
[12:21] <Tonio_> imbrandon: but most grandmotha are doing it nowadays, because they are used to the default windows pre-installed player
[12:21] <Tonio_> that's the point
[12:22] <Tonio_> is "conditioning" correct in english ?
[12:22] <imbrandon> Tonio_, i know, you dont have to preach to the choir bro, i'm right with ya on this one
[12:23] <Tonio_> to make my opinion clear, I just think than "usability", "simplicity" or "intuitiveness" are a matter of conditionning mostly
[12:23] <Tonio_> I am a windows "expert" more than a linux one, and I am amazed when I see people claiming windows is "simple"
[12:23] <Tonio_> is clicking on "start" to shut the computer down "intuitive" ? no but they are conditionned
[12:24] <Tonio_> and windows is, honnestly, horribly complex......
[12:26] <allee> Tonio_: If we can tweak the app started by 'action selection' media menu to do the right thing.  I'm fine with it.  If not let the people a choice to use the just-works powerless app.
[12:26] <Tonio_> allee: it can be done, I'm certain of that
[12:27] <allee> Tonio_: this would be great of course
[12:28] <Tonio_> allee: but that has to be done of course, which is the reason of that spec :)
[12:28] <fdoving> gnite.
[12:28] <Tonio_> bye fdoving
[12:29] <fdoving> bye tonio.
[12:30] <Tonio_> allee: in my opinion, it is better to have only one app for audio, even if the app does everything and is a bit more complicated, but with a good doc for the app
[12:31] <Tonio_> and documenting one app only i easier than documenting task by task with different apps everytime
[12:31] <Tonio_> k3b is complex for example, but I use it for everything, ripping audio cds, dvd, burning etc.... because one app is always easier to use than 10 apps for 10 tasks
[12:32] <Tonio_> 80% people don't even know than k3b is capable to rip an audio cd...
[12:32] <ryanakca> my 2: I agree...
[12:32] <Tonio_> they all use crappy kaudiocreator, which takes 40 minutes to rip when k3b takes 5 minutes
[12:33] <ryanakca> K3B should be in the menu when you stick in an audio cd to rip it, instead of kaudicreater...
[12:33] <Tonio_> kaudiocreator is an horrible software, honnestly :)
[12:33] <Tonio_> ryanakca: yes, I'd like that to be done too for edgy+1
[12:34] <Tonio_> the only thing with kaudiocreator is the good kdesktop integration
[12:34] <Tonio_> but configuration is a mess (command line based) and performances are a shame......
[12:34] <ryanakca> like, if your going to make a program, make sure that it can remember where it put it's .wavs...
[12:35] <Tonio_> most people consider k3b is a burning app but that's false
[12:35] <Tonio_> it is like nero today, a complete cd operations solution
[12:35] <ryanakca> yeah
[12:36] <Tonio_> ryanakca: nobody nows, and that's my concern, since it is probably the best ripping kde application, simple to use, good performances, and gui based config
[12:36] <ryanakca> how do you rip with it? 
[12:36] <ryanakca> s/2nd anything/anywheres
[12:36] <Tonio_> ryanakca: open, click on the cd on the left, then right click on a song and choose 'extract"
[12:36] <Tonio_> that's it
[12:37] <Tonio_> ryanakca: and compare performances between kaudiocreator and k3b, it is simply 8 to 10 times faster
[12:38] <Tonio_> ryanakca: the point is despite the good kde integration, I would prefer kubuntu without kaudiocreator, and a good kubuntu doc with, for example a "how to rip an audio cd" section
[12:38] <ryanakca> yeah, can k3b encode the stuff?
[12:38] <ryanakca> aka -> mp3?
[12:38] <Tonio_> but eh ebst would be a good kde integration of course :)
[12:38] <Tonio_> ryanakca: sure
[12:38] <Tonio_> it can do mp3, ogg, flac and wav
[12:39] <Tonio_> same than kaudiocreator
[12:39] <Tonio_> you can rip a dvd to avi with it too......
[12:40] <Tonio_> ryanakca: the only difference is that encoding config is easier in k3b, and performances are 10 times better, but that's not more complicated
[12:40] <Tonio_> just that people don't know that
[12:41] <Tonio_> ryanakca: test you'll see :)
[12:42] <allee> Tonio_: well, for kscd and codeine, my noops didn't need _ANY_ docs.  For a simple job like play cd/dvd, play this audiofile etc  it should just be like this. Which apps and how, I don't care,  Simple things easy, compilicate possible :)
[12:43] <allee> Maybe early in edgy+1 we need to explore discuss this with amarok/k3b/etc it they are not enough preseedable by a desktop file
[12:43] <Tonio_> allee: honnestly, to just play a file, kaffeine does the job too
[12:43] <Tonio_> double click -> kaffeine plays -> close the windows when finished
[12:43] <Tonio_> allee: on that point I don't see the difference with codeine
[12:43] <Tonio_> the only difference is when you want to play with menus and options
[12:44] <Tonio_> but if you want to play with menus and options, you have to be ready to read the docs
[12:44] <Tonio_> concerning amarok, I agree that "basic usage" is hard, but not kaffeine in my opinion
[12:45] <Tonio_> to play a dvd in kaffeine -> open kaffeine, and click "play dvd"
[12:45] <allee> Tonio_: What I mean is maybe the spec needs a list of common-actions medias and the goal should be to make them noops solvable without searching docs
[12:45] <Tonio_> allee: I can understand you, but honnestly kaffeine is not the good example :)
[12:46] <Tonio_> allee: yes, that's why I suggest to have an "extract cd with k3b" or "play cd with amarok" is the action selection box
[12:46] <Tonio_> I just don't understand how can kaffeine be considered complicated for basic usage ?
[12:47] <Tonio_> unless you play with the menus, basic usage with kaffeine is not very different than with codeine :)
[12:47] <allee> Tonio_: Uhm, then lot's must have changed in edgy!!! ;)
[12:47] <Tonio_> allee: bah kaffeine UI is completly different in fact
[12:48] <Tonio_> allee: ever played with kaffeine 0.8 ?
[12:48] <ryanakca> Tonio_: looks good... just keep on getting errors
[12:49] <allee> Tonio_: codeine works well, I had no reason until now to try kaffeine
[12:49] <Tonio_> allee: http://tonio.homelinux.org/tmp/capture2.png
[12:49] <Tonio_> allee: that's not "complicated" for basic usage ;)
[12:50] <Tonio_> and I would personnaly remove the audio cd part on the left, to make it even more simple
[12:50] <allee> Tonio_: would be nice if this could be splitted into kaffeine-audio pkgs ;)
[12:51] <Tonio_> allee: yes I asked upstream about that, audio section in an so file or something
[12:51] <Tonio_> allee: or configure option to disable all audio functions
[12:51] <Tonio_> allee: didn't receive any response :)
[12:52] <allee> Tonio_: heh, you frightened him with a castrated kaffeine ;)
[12:52] <Tonio_> allee: hehe :) maybe :)
[12:53] <allee> Tonio_: fwiw: Select 'News' in contact gives libknodepart.la not found :(
[12:53] <allee> looks like a service desktop files need to be (re)moved
[12:53] <Tonio_> allee: is it there by default ??????
[12:54] <Tonio_> allee: didn't you install/remove knode ?
[12:55] <Tonio_> allee: /usr/share/services/kontact/knodeplugin.desktop
[12:55] <Tonio_> probably this one.......
[12:55] <allee> Tonio_: plain, edgy knot <?> install + dist-upgrade .  No additions
[12:56] <Tonio_> allee: locate knode | grep desktop
[12:56] <Tonio_> allee: what does it returns ?
[12:56] <Tonio_> shouldn't be there I don't understand
[12:56] <allee> Tonio_: my guess it that this desktop file need to be moved to the pkgs that contains libknodepart.*
[12:57] <Tonio_> kontact: usr/lib/kde3/libkontact_knodeplugin.la
[12:57] <Tonio_> hum......... what the f*ck is that in kontact ?
[12:57] <Tonio_> allee: knode: usr/share/services/kontact/knodeplugin.desktop
[12:58] <Tonio_> it is provided by knode, not kontact
[12:58] <Tonio_> allee: do you have a knodeplugin.desktop file ?
[12:59] <Tonio_> allee: I'm wondering if kontact uses desktop files or la files to list the modules..... should be desktop but I'm unsure
[12:59] <allee> yes, pkg kontact
[01:00] <Tonio_> allee: what desktop file do you have ? I don't see a knode desktop file provided by kontact
[01:00] <allee> Tonio_: .desktop.  The service loader uses .so and .la files
[01:01] <Tonio_> tonio@kubuntu:/usr/lib$ apt-file search /usr/share/services/kontact/knodeplugin.desktop
[01:01] <Tonio_> knode: usr/share/services/kontact/knodeplugin.desktop
[01:01] <Tonio_> doesn't look provided by kontact afaik
[01:01] <alleeEdgy32> root@lap-allee:~# dpkg -S knodeplugin.desktop
[01:01] <alleeEdgy32> kontact: /usr/share/services/kontact/knodeplugin.desktop
[01:01] <Tonio_> ouch
[01:02] <alleeEdgy32> I move it away and restart kontact ...
[01:02] <Tonio_> allee looks too late to fix this....
[01:02] <alleeEdgy32> I thought tonight is edgy+1 time ;)
[01:03] <Tonio_> alleeEdgy32: bah only critical fixes are allowed now.... (I don't like that but that's it)
[01:04] <Tonio_> I don't understand why is there knode stuff in kdepim....
[01:04] <Tonio_> alleeEdgy32: we should ship with knode :) that would make it easier to manage :)
[01:04] <alleeEdgy32> Tonio_: moving knodeplugin.desktop away fixes it.
[01:04] <alleeEdgy32> Tonio_: :)
[01:05] <Tonio_> alleeEdgy32: yes I know but the problem is that we need to patch knode package to install that desktop file..... otherwise, it will not work anymore......;
[01:05] <Tonio_> alleeEdgy32: well I'll prepare the packages, I'll try to get them uploaded tomorrow
[01:05] <Tonio_> but there are only a few chances......
[01:05] <alleeEdgy32> Tonio_: maybe a review of services/*.desktop that checks if they are distributed with the shared libs for edgy+1
[01:06] <Tonio_> alleeEdgy32: yes, especially because kde provides desktop files for external things
[01:06] <Tonio_> alleeEdgy32: I discovered recently that x-7z.desktop defines a p7zip protocol in kdelibs
[01:06] <Tonio_> but no ioslave is provided.......
[01:07] <Tonio_> there are lots of thigns like that in kde
[01:08] <alleeEdgy32> no kdeslave at all or is it just in another kde* module?
[01:08] <Tonio_> alleeEdgy32: I can hide "news" in kds too, but it'll be hard to activate it again for users who use knode
[01:08] <Tonio_> alleeEdgy32: no kde slave at all :) that's the funny part :)
[01:08] <alleeEdgy32> heh heh
[01:08] <alleeEdgy32> Tonio_: hiding is wrong.  Better wait unti it can be moved to knode pkgs
[01:09] <Tonio_> alleeEdgy32: yes
[01:09] <Tonio_> but if I had to choose, I would ship with knode
[01:09] <Tonio_> kubuntu is the ONLY distro I've seen that doesn't have a usenet client installed out of the box
[01:09] <Tonio_> even windows has......
[01:10] <Tonio_> ubuntu has
[01:11] <alleeEdgy32> but if theres space on CDROM, knode cant hurt ;)
[01:11] <Tonio_> alleeEdgy32: yeah me too, but well... some people are still using this
[01:12] <Tonio_> alleeEdgy32: that's another debate ;) we have to free space on the cd
[01:12] <Tonio_> we are about the limit
[01:12] <alleeEdgy32> geek apps need more space than noop apps 
[01:13] <Tonio_> alleeEdgy32: OOo need to much space :)
[01:13] <Tonio_> that the point
[01:13] <Tonio_> 65 MB on the cd, while kofice would only take 10 megs (as we already have koffice translations, koffice-date etc with krita)
[01:14] <Tonio_> I looked at the size and switching to koffice would free about 60 megs on the cd.....
[01:14] <Tonio_> but that's a BIG debate :)
[01:55] <jdong> Tonio_: oh please don't tell me you're taking off OOo for KOffice
[01:55] <jdong> ;-)
[01:55] <jdong> Tonio_: If you see a story about an MIT student jumping off a bridge in Cambridge, you'll feel really guilty for it ;)
[01:56] <Tonio_> jdong: I'm not deciding anything
[01:56] <Tonio_> jdong: I just would approve this
[01:56] <Tonio_> indeed :)
[01:57] <goldenear> Koffice is now very usable for the average user IMHO
[01:59] <goldenear> I won't be shocked to see koffice by default and OOo as an optional package :)
[03:46] <jdong> Riddell: it doesn't look like your last ktorrent upload worked
[03:46] <Riddell> jdong: hmm?
[03:47] <jdong> Riddell: it's FTBFSing on autoconf
[03:47] <Riddell> jdong: where?
[03:47] <jdong> at least on ppc/dapper-backports
[03:47] <jdong> it appears to work elsewhere
[03:48] <Riddell> curious
[03:48] <jdong> Riddell: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+source/ktorrent/2.0.3-0ubuntu4~dapper1
[03:48] <jdong> fascinating, isn't it?
[03:48] <Riddell> just how random can autotools be
[03:49] <Riddell> they choose to run themselves on only one architecture
[03:49] <Hawkwind> Is there a simple way to find out who package(d)(s) an app for the distro without downloading the source ?
[03:49] <Riddell> Hawkwind: look in the changelog
[03:49] <Riddell> zless /usr/share/doc/<package>/changelog.Debian.gz
[03:49] <Riddell> or changelogs.ubuntu.com
[03:50] <Hawkwind> Ahh ok.  I was wondering when Xchat-2.6.8 would be packaged
[03:50] <Riddell> edgy+1
[03:50] <Riddell> but konversation 1.0.1 is in
[03:50] <jdong> Riddell: it seems to work in ppc/edgy though
[03:50] <Riddell> jdong: even more randomness
[03:50] <jdong> Riddell: any clues to why ppc/dapper would fail?
[03:51] <Hawkwind> Yeah.  I built 2.6.8 last night for both Dapper and Edgy.  Didn't expect it would make it into Edgy unless it gets backported
[03:51] <jdong> Hawkwind: oh boy, starting to talk about edgy-backports already
[03:51] <jdong> :D
[03:51] <Riddell> jdong: ubuntu4 does have a patch that fixed a ppc fail, don't know why it would cause autotools to ony run on ppc/dapper though
[03:51] <Hawkwind> jdong: Hah nah.  I just knew Edgy was frozen and xchat-2.6.8 was released yesterday
[03:53] <Hawkwind> Who is Sebastian Droge on IRC...is that seb128 I assume ?
[03:53] <jdong> Hawkwind: slomo
[03:53] <jdong> Hawkwind: seb128=sebastian bacher
[03:53] <Hawkwind> jdong: Ah ok, thanks
[03:53] <jdong> Riddell: wasn't there some autotools patch in there too?
[03:54] <Riddell> jdong: yes, but also see no reason why ppc/dapper should be any different
[03:55] <jdong> I hate ppc :D
[03:55] <Riddell> give it 18 months and it'll go away
[03:55] <jdong> lol
[07:07] <Jucato> Hobbsee: is launchpad down for you, too?
[07:08] <Jucato> oh nvm
[08:33] <kwwii> moin
[08:33] <imbrandon> heya kwwii
[08:34] <kwwii> hi imbrandon
[08:34] <Jucato> hi kwwii imbrandon!
[08:34] <kwwii> man, you are always  up
[08:34] <imbrandon> lol i just woke up like 2 hours ago
[08:34] <imbrandon> well 3
[08:35] <kwwii> :-)
[08:35] <kwwii> it's 8:30 in the morning here and I woke up an hour ago (which is wierd for me)
[08:36] <Hobbsee> hey kwwii, imbrandon, Jucato 
[08:36] <Jucato> hi Hobbsee! :)
[08:36] <kwwii> hi Hobbsee
[08:37] <imbrandon> heya Hobbsee
[08:41] <Sime> imbrandon: Hi, can you tell Tonio that there are new patches up on the wiki.
[08:42] <Sime> imbrandon: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuKDEMedia
[08:42] <imbrandon> Sime, sure thing
[08:42] <Sime> imbrandon: thanks
[08:42] <imbrandon> :)
[08:50] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: can you confirm kde bug 135394?
[08:51] <Jucato> he's too slow: http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135394
[08:52] <imbrandon> Hobbsee, just a sec testing vlc for crimsun
[08:53] <Hobbsee> [16:50]  [Notice]  -Ubugtu- +Error: Could not parse XML returned by KDE: timed out
[08:53] <Hobbsee> Jucato: heh.  they do
[08:53] <Jucato> well, too bad I'm not on Linux, so I can't test it for yah :)
[08:54] <Jucato> oh well... afk :)
[08:56] <imbrandon> Hobbsee, i can confirm that
[08:56] <imbrandon> but it looks to be a site issue not konqui
[08:56] <imbrandon> not sure
[08:57] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: it's a bug in multiple sites, not just htat one.  adn it renders fine in ff, obviously
[08:57] <imbrandon> yea
[08:57] <Hobbsee> it's not a different UA thing
[10:25] <Hobbsee> fabo: you around?
[10:26] <fabo> Hobbsee: yeah
[10:27] <Hobbsee> fabo: seen the https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/ksynaptics/+bugs ?
[10:27] <Hobbsee> fabo: i'm slightly worried about that first bug - i still cant seem to get it to work too
[10:28] <Hobbsee> hmmm.  hang on, mine was different
[10:28] <Hobbsee> the fact that i could never get the shm config to work
[10:29] <fabo> you mean in xorg.conf ?
[10:30] <Hobbsee> fabo: oh yeah, this one.  https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/ksynaptics/+bug/65268
[10:30] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 65268 in ksynaptics "x.org not including the shared memory config for ksynaptics" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
[10:31] <Hobbsee> couldnt even get ti to load
[10:31] <Hobbsee> but i'd have to have another look
[10:31] <fabo> but not yet up-to-date in the packagefixed in svn
[10:31] <fabo> reverse my sentence :)
[10:31] <Hobbsee> fabo: ahh.  so it's fixed in svn, but the package isnt up to date?
[10:31] <fabo> fixed in svn , but not yet up-to-date in the package
[10:31] <Hobbsee> gotcha
[10:31] <fabo> :)
[10:32] <fabo> as you want, i have patched debian package 2 days ago
[10:33] <Hobbsee> fabo: just ksynaptics, or libsynaptics too?
[10:33] <fabo> we can sync, anyway it's an UVFe
[10:33] <fabo> just k
[10:33] <fabo> i didn't find time to do more ...
[10:34] <Hobbsee> fabo: how safe is this?
[10:35] <fabo> the patch is trivial, it fixes only a dialog to set the proper option in xorg.conf
[10:37] <fabo> Hobbsee: http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/kdereview/ksynaptics/src/synconfigwidget.cpp?rev=569281&r1=559091&r2=569281
[10:37] <fabo> so it is safe
[10:37] <Hobbsee> ahh
[10:39] <Hobbsee> fabo: is there a way you could find the correct place, and modify xorg.conf to make it work ootb?
[10:41] <fabo> Hobbsee: i talked with david nusinow about the issue :) his reply :  I'd be happy to apply a fix if you want to write it. :)
[10:42] <Hobbsee> fabo: *g*
[10:42] <Hobbsee> fabo: fair enough
[10:44] <fabo> we'll try to improve the issue with edgy+1 ...
[10:45] <Hobbsee> bug 63276
[10:45] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 63276 in ksynaptics "Improper hint to enable modifacation of settings" [Undecided,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63276
[10:45] <Hobbsee> grrr
[10:45] <Hobbsee> fabo: yeah, fair enough.  anything else wont get approved anyway
[12:26] <Riddell> Sime: someone reported getting a crashing X when logging in with this error http://wklej.org/id/ecc5fa3986
[12:31] <Kuhrscher> Riddell: Is it possible to import desktop-kmplayer and desktop-kaffeine before the langpack deadline?
[12:31] <Riddell> Kuhrscher: no, I'm afraid we'll be stuck without them
[12:33] <Kuhrscher> Riddell: Hmm, that's a pity. I just uploaded them manually for German...
[12:50] <Sime> Riddell: that crashing should not stop the login process completely.
[12:52] <Riddell> Sime: http://launchpad.net/bugs/66718 is the report
[12:53] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 66718 in kde-guidance "XServer crashes, unable to login since" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
[12:54] <Sime> Riddell: it looks related to that weird "everything in guidance stops working" problem that some people have, which seems to be a problem in the python packages on PPC.
[01:21] <lexual> Hi all, could anyone check out: http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135394 . Is it possible this could be a kubuntu specific bug?
[01:22] <windshear> hello
[01:22] <windshear> any news on the floppy bug?
[01:23] <Jucato> Hobbsee: ping
[01:23] <Jucato> your bug report
[01:23] <Riddell> lexual: I don't see how, we certainly don't change anything in khtml
[01:23] <Riddell> lexual: but it's possible of course
[01:23] <Riddell> windshear: no magic fix has appeared
[01:23] <windshear> grrrml
[01:24] <windshear> seems as I have to investigate some magic into it
[01:36] <Riddell> nixternal: did you start an RC info page?
[01:40] <Hobbsee> lexual: oh that one...i was wondering if you were on irc.
[02:12] <gebruike1> Where can I get the source code of the kubuntu installer?
[02:15] <abattoir> gebruike1: try 'apt-get source ubiquity' , you of course will need to have enabled deb-src for main in sources.list
[02:20] <gebruike1> I need the part that allows user to create a useraccount for them self.
[02:21] <gebruike1> could you point me out the the right file? 
[02:26] <abattoir> gebruike1: look for usersetup.py (should be under components).. iirc, it executes a few scripts as well...
[02:27] <abattoir> I assume you mean the Live CD graphical installer and not the text installer...
[02:28] <gebruike1> yes the grahpical one, I need to use the adduser code. I'm cloning kubuntu images, so I'm in search of a application that allows the user easy to add a first time user to the system. 
[02:29] <abattoir> gebruike1: i think the oem-installer might be for you then...(if i understand what you mean, correctly)
[02:30] <gebruike1> I'm not insearch of a installer, just a application that adds users to the system.
[02:30] <gebruike1> yes, let me explain. I'm cloning pc images for mass productions. So I need a application that allows user to do that(like in the instalation process)..
[02:30] <abattoir> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuOEMInstaller
[02:31] <abattoir> gebruike1: ^^^^
[02:32] <abattoir> http://help.ubuntu.com/community/Ubuntu_OEM_Installer_Overview might explain how it works...
[03:22] <Riddell> Sime: guidance modules all seem to work on ppc for me on a fresh edgy install
[03:28] <Administrator> ok oem-config in breezy doesn show the 'create username and passwd'dialog window.
[03:29] <fdoving> Riddell: doesn't work for me on a not-so-fresh install. :|
[03:33] <abattoir> Administrator: that's because you already have a 'user account'
[03:34] <abattoir> Administrator: the default action is to skip that step if an account already exists
[03:34] <abattoir> (since this is meant for a setup with no previous user)
[03:35] <abattoir> Administrator: you can override that if you want, if you want to test it
[03:37] <Administrator> I found out that also oem-config-prepare doesn't exist on the system
[03:38] <Administrator> there is no manual page, It would be nice if someone could give me some quikc pointers
[03:39] <Administrator> it would be nice If I could go directly to the creating of an account process abattoir .
[03:42] <bddebian> Howdy
[03:42] <abattoir> Administrator: this is how it works.... 1) you install kubuntu in 'OEM mode' 2) you login as oem, and then do the necesary changes, lets say you install drivers for your hardware, include your company logo etc., 3) then you run 'sudo oem-config-prepare' 4) You then replicate the harddisk image onto other harddisks 5) you ship it to the user 6) When the user logs in, a new account is created, and it is setup according to his
[03:42] <abattoir> location, locale timezone etc.
[03:42] <abattoir> wow, that was big...
[03:42] <Jucato> and was cut :P
[03:43] <Jucato> hi bddebian
[03:43] <bddebian> Heya Jucato
[03:43] <Administrator> abattoir, how can I override all that? I just want to create a new user account on the first boot.
[03:44] <abattoir> Administrator: on a system which already has other users?
[03:44] <Administrator> abattoir, yes.
[03:45] <abattoir> Administrator: ok, install oem-config, then modify /usr/lib/oem-config/user/functions.sh(to override user detection), then run 'sudo oem-config prepare'
[03:45] <abattoir> Administrator: on the next boot, oem-config should create a new user
[03:46] <abattoir> Administrator: btw, it has edgy dependencies, so i don't think it'll work in breezy
[03:46] <abattoir> Administrator: unless you manually hunt and install the dependencies
[03:48] <Administrator> then i will install oem-config from edgy on breezy.
[03:59] <abattoir> Administrator: i wouldn't recommend doing that, but then if you know what you're doing...
[04:19] <Administrator> abattoir, i know about the pyhton package that is only in edgy but ... what other choise is there a.t.m?
[04:19] <abattoir> Administrator: you can't upgrade or switch to edgy?
[04:20] <Administrator> you want me to deliver computers to costumers with edgy?
[04:20] <Administrator> is that a sane idea?
[04:20] <abattoir> in a couple of weeks time, i'd say yes...
[04:20] <abattoir> ok, wait a sec
[04:22] <Jucato> any update on kde bug 133388 ?? (pet peeve...)
[04:22] <abattoir> Administrator: if you are able to install the necessary version of debconf(>=1.4.52), get console-setup, i guess it'd work...
[04:22] <Ubugtu> KDE bug 133388 in general "Manage Repositories is disabled" [Normal,New]  http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=133388
[04:23] <abattoir> Jucato: i think Riddell is working on it( or will work on it soon)
[04:23] <Administrator> so I get debconf and console-setup working on breezy, then it should be ok?
[04:23] <Administrator> great then I could start building.
[04:23] <Jucato> oh ok. just wondering as RC is close
[04:24] <fdoving> Jucato: it works in current edgy.
[04:24] <Riddell> that should be fixed
[04:24] <fdoving> it is.
[04:24] <Riddell> phew
[04:24] <Jucato> ah ok. what should I do about the bug report then?
[04:24] <fdoving> or.. wait.
[04:24] <abattoir> Administrator: i really haven't tested it in anything other than edgy, might work in dapper, not sure about breezy, you can try it out and tell me ;)
[04:24] <fdoving> the menu entry is not greyed out anymore.. but adept crashed when i clicked it.
[04:25] <Jucato> ouch, that's bad...
[04:25] <fdoving> no, it works.
[04:25] <abattoir> Administrator: yes, its mainly the dependencies, afaik, the proogram itself doesn't depend on anything edgy specific
[04:27] <Administrator> dh_pysupport, is also not in breezy.
[04:27] <abattoir> works fine here too
[04:28] <Jucato> fdoving: oh that's great then. who can change the bug report's status, then?
[04:28] <fdoving> Jucato: the launchpad bug is changed.
[04:28] <abattoir> Administrator: i'm not familiar with the backporting process, but it might be possible to backport it to dapper, or even breezy...
[04:28] <fdoving> adept crashes if you select adept -> manage repositories before it's finished loading. 
[04:29] <Jucato> er.. didn't know it was reported in launchpad too @_@
[04:32] <Administrator> abattoir, what about apt-pinning?
[04:32] <Administrator> should that work?
[04:34] <abattoir> Administrator: i've not tried it... it will not cause any side-effects? will not break other stuff?
[04:44] <Administrator> abattoir, it appears that I have to build python from edgy to.
[04:48] <Administrator> I just going to upgrade to edgy, i think my backport will cause to much work...
[04:51] <abattoir> Administrator: :)
[04:53] <abattoir> Administrator: tbh, from what i can see, nothing has been compromised because its 'edgy', the devs will not just include buggy software or not take it seriously
[04:59] <Riddell> Administrator: what were you looking to backport?
[05:08] <Administrator> Riddell, oem-config(edgy to breezy)
[05:08] <Riddell> Administrator: why?  you'd be best just using that on edgy
[05:09] <Administrator> because breezy is stable.
[05:09] <Administrator> and I can deliver those on images to costumers.
[05:10] <Administrator> if the upgrade fails il be forced backport every single package that has to be packborted, and it will cost my hours.
[05:10] <Administrator> however, if all runs fine, then i'll just use edgy.
[05:13] <abattoir> Administrator: umm... wait, you are upgrading to edgy from breezy?
[05:13] <abattoir> Administrator: upgrade will most probably fail...
[05:14] <Administrator> yes
[05:14] <abattoir> Administrator: you'd need to upgrade breezy->dapper, and then dapper->edgy
[05:14] <Administrator> hmm ok
[05:22] <Riddell> Administrator: if you're doing oem installs I highly recommend doing them with edgy
[05:23] <Riddell> backporting bits of the installer is generally a bad idea
[05:31] <mhb> Riddell: hi Jonathan, guess what I'm going to say next :o)
[05:32] <Riddell> it's RC today, testing CDs day, fixes tomorrow
[05:32] <mhb> Riddell: it's the hwdb-kde untranslatable lines I'm worried about because today's the language-pack deadline
[05:33] <mhb> Riddell: well technically tomorrow, but that means 00:00
[05:33] <Riddell> ok, I'll look at that first
[05:34] <mhb> Riddell: should testers try out dailies today then?
[05:46] <Riddell> yes please!
[05:46] <Riddell> http://wiki.kubuntu.org/Testing/Current
[05:47] <mhb> well it's bad that I'm busy with the translations today ... but I'll let the others know
[06:18] <abattoir> Riddell: does 'Check CD' on the alternate CD work for you?
[06:21] <Riddell> abattoir: not tried yet
[06:24] <abattoir> Riddell: ok, done testing the expert mode... please tell me if it works for you, as it keeps running the test again and again, even though it was successful the first time
[06:25] <nixternal> Riddell: the RC page has started...when is release day?
[06:25] <Riddell> nixternal: tomorrow
[06:26] <nixternal> oy
[06:26] <nixternal> alrighty then..looks like i have a little work to do
[06:26] <nixternal> what has changed since beta?
[06:27] <Riddell> nixternal: digikam!
[06:27] <Riddell> nixternal: poke abattoir to get a screenshot of the oem-installer
[06:28] <nixternal> oem-installer is working now..good deal
[06:28] <abattoir> nixternal: i already have them, i can mail them to you if you want
[06:28] <Riddell> nixternal: accessibility profiles working too http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/accessibility.png
[06:29] <abattoir> nixternal: i meant the images
[06:30] <nixternal> nixternal@ubuntu.com would be fine
[06:35] <abattoir> nixternal: sent, if you want something else(eg. w/o the entries filled in in the user section), tell me, as i'll be testing it now
[06:38] <nixternal> got it ;)
[06:38] <nixternal> thanks abattoir
[07:25] <nixternal> Riddell: bug 64245 - if i fix this really quick, you can get this added before release?
[07:25] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 64245 in kubuntu-docs "Kubuntu Desktop Guide - Video/Kino Using Ubuntu Menu Structure" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/64245
[07:34] <Riddell> nixternal: we still need to upload to change the version of KDE don't we?
[07:34] <Riddell> nixternal: give me a patch against the current package and I'll upload
[07:36] <nixternal> oh ya
[07:36] <nixternal> good call
[07:36] <nixternal> let me get this done super quick
[07:40] <Riddell> nixternal: please report it as a bug too so we can target it
[07:40] <nixternal> doing so now
[07:51] <gnomefreak> nixternal: looking at your bug. do you talk to yourself often? ;)
[07:51] <nixternal> yup
[07:51] <nixternal> ;)
[07:52] <gnomefreak> care if i change it to fix commited? just incase someone else finds it?
[07:52] <nixternal> sure
[07:52] <nixternal> i will have it commited here in 1 second ;)
[07:54] <nixternal> Riddell: http://nixternal.ubuntu-rocks.org/kubuntu/kubuntu-docs.patch
[07:54] <Sime> Tonio_: hey, wait a bit before you package those new patches. I've still got some things to fix up first.
[07:54] <nixternal> hope i did that right
[08:05] <ZeroCool> Riddell: when will they fix this, http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135725
[08:05] <Ubugtu> KDE bug 135725 in general "Monitor & Display Module can't load" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[08:07] <Riddell> ZeroCool: "they"?
[08:07] <Riddell> ZeroCool: I'm unable to recreate that bug
[08:07] <ZeroCool> the bug team
[08:07] <ZeroCool> its been posted in a few times..
[08:07] <ZeroCool> infact, i have that bug now...
[08:07] <ZeroCool> running edgy
[08:08] <Riddell> fabo: did you have a fix for that?
[08:26] <verwilst> goddamn, edgy is dogslow in the graphics department
[08:26] <verwilst> since i've been using it on my home pc, i've been more in windows than ubuntu :p
[08:27] <verwilst> anyone else having this? :)
[08:29] <Hawkwind> Not I.  Though only Windows in my house are the ones I can look out of that are built into the walls :)
[08:33] <ZeroCool> yep, networking with dhcp has been flaky also.. there some thing strange with kwallet dumping passwords that are stored in kmail..
[08:36] <verwilst> Hawkwind: i have windows for counterstrike :p
[08:36] <verwilst> that's it
[08:36] <verwilst> well, more now, since it's absolutely crappy to use linux for now :p
[08:36] <verwilst> i can't even drag a window normally :p
[08:37] <verwilst> it lags like hell
[08:37] <verwilst> i guess a geforce 6600GT would do a bit more ;)
[08:38] <orkid__> use cedega and yo uwon't need it.
[08:38] <orkid__> for cs
[08:41] <verwilst> pff
[08:41] <verwilst> i've been a member for over a year
[08:41] <verwilst> it was always something else that wasn't working
[08:41] <verwilst> so i quit it last month
[08:44] <Sime> is anyone else here getting bad sound latency?
[08:45] <Sime> when playing flash movies etc?
[08:45] <Sime> it's about 0.5 sec.
[08:50] <Riddell> Sime: DVDs work fine
[08:50] <Enola_Gay> hi all
[08:50] <Sime> I'm not sure if it just flash. But pausing flash stops the movie but the sound continues that bit extra. So it looks like it is buffered somewhere.
[08:51] <Riddell> hi Enola_Gay 
[08:51] <Enola_Gay> Does anyone has the problem that knetworkmanager doesn't show wlan in edgy? Wired works fine.
[08:51] <Enola_Gay> hi Riddell
[09:03] <Riddell> Enola_Gay: works for me
[09:04] <Riddell> Enola_Gay: but network manager is known not to work with a number of wifi cards
[09:05] <fabo> Riddell: i was unable to reproduce too ...
[09:05] <Riddell> nixternal: what about the kde version number in the docs?
[09:06] <nixternal> that got fixed too in that patch
[09:06] <Riddell> nixternal: so it did
[09:06] <nixternal> ;)
[09:07] <Riddell> nixternal: presumably this changes translatable strings, do we need to update the .pot files?
[09:07] <nixternal> argh...yes we do
[09:07] <nixternal> actually..thats an easy fix..one sec
[09:07] <nixternal> all i have to do is recreate the pot really quick for the desktop guide and the release notes
[09:10] <Riddell> ok, send me a patch for the lot and make sure to rm *~
[09:11] <nixternal> did you apply the last patch already?
[09:15] <Enola_Gay> Riddell: sorry, I was afk. It works in Dapper at least some time ago but not anymore. I have ipw2200 which is pretty common afaik. But since Networkmanager doesn't support double wlan authentication like wpa supplicant I am useing the wpa roaming script. Maybe that is the reason. But stopping doesn't help.
[09:17] <Enola_Gay> +not anymore in Edgy
[09:18] <Enola_Gay> I am going to check the today networkmanager update.
[09:26] <nixternal> Riddell: http://nixternal.ubuntu-rocks.org/kubuntu/kubuntu-docs.patch
[09:26] <nixternal> fixed ;)
[09:28] <DaSkreech> What should I do if Edgy Beta Desktop core faults on a machine upon init?
[09:29] <Riddell> DaSkreech: report a bug or test a daily CD and see if it's fixed
[09:29] <DaSkreech> Ok
[09:41] <marseillai> hi! i've every language-*-fr install, i've check in language support if french is set as default language and it's ok! i've even try to remove english support and many parts of kde are still in english. How can i solve this problem?
[09:45] <Lure> Riddell: should we prepare a spec for uds regarding powermanagement leftovers
[09:46] <marseillai> oki seems to be solve it was a kde configuration problem in system settings
[09:46] <marseillai> Riddell: shouldn't langage supports check in kde configuration to see if default langage of language-support is the same than kde default language?
[09:47] <marseillai> because if it is it didn't work for me
[09:49] <nixternal> Riddell: i just fixed that patch again, as the releasenotes had a wrong url to the kde 3.5.5 changelong
[09:49] <nixternal> changelog ;)
[09:49] <nixternal> Riddell: http://nixternal.ubuntu-rocks.org/kubuntu/kubuntu-docs.patch
[09:49] <nixternal> that is fixed and ready
[09:49] <nixternal> hehe
[10:07] <Mez> Riddell: ping
[10:07] <DaSkreech> Hi Mez
[10:07] <Riddell> Mez: I'm hiding
[10:08] <Riddell> Lure: yes
[10:08] <Mez> Riddell: why ?
[10:08] <DaSkreech> IRS
[10:08] <Riddell> nixternal: I've no idea if those changes will be allowed in though, we'll need to ask
[10:08] <DaSkreech> Shhhh
[10:08] <nixternal> Riddell: i just found out they may not be
[10:08] <Mez> Riddell: just thought I'd tell you. Aston University in Birmingham has rolled out Kubuntu to over 1700 PCs
[10:08] <nixternal> do to the translation issues
[10:08] <Riddell> Mez: everyone wants me to do stuff but amd64 is broken and nobody told me so now I have to panic and fix it
[10:08] <DaSkreech> Mez: As in has done so already?
[10:08] <Riddell> Mez: oooh!
[10:09] <Mez> DaSkreech, yeah
[10:09] <Riddell> marseillai: what do you mean by language-support?
[10:09] <nixternal> Riddell: #ubuntu-docs for a sec
[10:09] <marseillai> Riddell: langage-support apps
[10:09] <Mez> Riddell: apparently they replaces their old Dual Boot Solaris/WinXP machines with XP/Kubuntu Machines
[10:09] <DaSkreech> Mez: Sounds like imbrandon should know about that
[10:10] <DaSkreech> Mez: He's the trumpet blower
[10:10] <Riddell> Mez: how do you know this?
[10:10] <Mez> DaSkreech .. .?
[10:10] <Mez> Riddell, I have lots of friends there, who told me
[10:11] <DaSkreech> imbrandon does the newsletter so he would be the person to talk to let Kubunteros beat their chest (khest?)
[10:12] <Mez> DaSkreech, ah, I'll poke him on saturday
[10:12] <DaSkreech> Borrow Hobbsee's stick
[10:12] <Mez> nah I dont need it
[10:12] <DaSkreech> I haven't seen the Hobby-one in a bit. How's she?
[10:12] <Mez> I have my own
[10:12] <DaSkreech> Mez: Ok Don't use it in konjunction with Katapult though!!!
[10:13] <Mez> DaSkreech, that's called a bow and arrow ;)
[10:13] <Mez> What the F***K
[10:14] <DaSkreech> Eh?
[10:14] <Mez> ] I rang Pipex 2 days ago asking to sign up -they siad they'd email me my login details
[10:14] <Mez> I've signed in to get them
[10:14] <Mez> no email - I go check the pipex website ... Unfortunately your exchange does not currently support broadband services.
[10:14] <nixternal> Riddell: i found out with the changes we made, there isn't time to get translations on the new strings, so when translations do come back, they will only break what we just fixed
[10:16] <imbrandon> DaSkreech, i dont do the newsletter everytime ;) nixternal and corey burger do more than me for it.
[10:17] <DaSkreech> Ah I just knew you were on it so you would be the person I go ot
[10:17] <DaSkreech> to
[10:17] <nixternal> i don't do much of it anymore either
[10:17] <DaSkreech> soooo corey?
[10:17] <nixternal> documentation has taken my life
[10:18] <nixternal> no need to...i have 1,248 items in it already
[10:18] <DaSkreech> Press F1 and read teh documentation for it :)
[10:18] <nixternal> i just took a dent out of emails, and now i am back up to 200
[10:18] <nixternal> jeesh
[10:18] <nixternal> oh no
[10:19] <nixternal> i am already doing hte Karbon documentation for KDE, no more right now
[10:19] <nixternal> my plate has runneth over ;)
[10:19] <DaSkreech> Well you could jump to #akregator and kick them
[10:19] <xeros> I've been translating Kubuntu release notes to Polish but it seems it's outdated (KDE 3.5.4) :( Does anyone know if it will be and/or when it will be changed?
[10:19] <DaSkreech> I have someone in the main chan asking me about podcasting and said akregator but there is no documentation to back me up
[10:21] <gnomefreak> DaSkreech: nope but you can use it for podcasts
[10:21] <DaSkreech> I figured you could. Just as I said no documentation
[10:22] <DaSkreech> Course it does say something that I've run that app for nearly a year before finding that out
[10:22] <gnomefreak> DaSkreech: check in the help section of akregator?
[10:22] <marseillai> Riddell: when i launch qt-language-selector and select french as default langage it doesn't select french as default language in system-settings so my kde stay in english
[10:22] <DaSkreech> gnomefreak: Do so yourself my friend :)
[10:22] <mhb> Riddell: it didn't work out with the hwdb-kde strings, did it?
[10:22] <gnomefreak> DaSkreech: for the docs you wanted ;)
[10:23] <gnomefreak> i dont know what podcasts are and i think im happy that way ;)
[10:24] <DaSkreech> It says and i Quote "The documentation for Akregator was not finished when KDE was installed on this computer."
[10:24] <DaSkreech> Which is the near sum total of Chapter 1
[10:25] <Riddell> marseillai: yes, that's something we'll look at in edgy+1
[10:25] <Riddell> mhb: not yet any way
[10:25] <marseillai> Riddell: yes i know for edgy it's too late i just want to tell you that this problem exists
[10:26] <marseillai> and Riddell nice feature specification for edgy+1! if all this is realised it will be wonderful
[10:26] <mhb> marseillai: where?
[10:27] <marseillai> mhb: https://launchpad.net/sprints/uds-mtv/+specs
[10:29] <mhb> marseillai: not many Ubuntu-specific features there
[10:29] <imbrandon> FeistyFawn , announced on the -devel ML
[10:30] <nixternal> Riddell: it seems my knowledge of translations is about that of a 2 year olds, so forgive my last statement about it breaking what we fixed, as that is not the issue at hand
[10:30] <nixternal> it seems the issue is the timing with translators, and the problems that brings upon them
[10:34] <Riddell> mmm, feisty
[10:37] <marseillai> Riddell: just an idea. is it possible to think about a "power user" way to install kubuntu from live cd?
[10:38] <Riddell> marseillai: it doesn't sound like a good idea
[10:38] <Riddell> marseillai: what needs done?
[10:38] <DaSkreech> marseillai: A power user will be using the Alternate
[10:39] <marseillai> Riddell: my idea : possiblity to add or remove repo from sources.list during installation, possibility to download packages from the net, possibility to add package to install during installation.
[10:40] <marseillai> DaSkreech: i mean with more possibility
[10:40] <DaSkreech> oh.. a hand rolled distro? :)
[10:41] <Lure> Riddell: what is the plan with Sime's recent patches for audiocd? no chance to get them in post RC?
[10:42] <marseillai> DaSkreech: not really because we still depends on kubuntu-desktop but add some packages for example.
[10:43] <DaSkreech> marseillai: I'm sure all of that can be added to the alternate
[10:43] <marseillai> DaSkreech: i know that when i install a kubuntu to anyone i install video drivers restricted formats, flash, java kde-games and some things like that and it would be great to be able to do this during installation
[10:43] <DaSkreech> Unless I'm wrong you can do some of that now
[10:44] <Riddell> Lure: no, too late for functionality changes
[10:44] <Lure> Riddell: it is fixing audiocd:/
[10:50] <nixternal> is digikam installed by default?
[10:50] <marseillai> yep
[10:50] <fdoving> appears to be.
[10:51] <nixternal> ok, wasn't sure if i installed it, or if it was installed from the get go
[10:51] <marseillai> nixternal: sudo apt-get remove digikam show you that it depends on kubuntu-desktop ;)
[10:51] <nixternal> what is all the hooplah over f-spot btw? is it me, or does digikam flat out demolish it in the feature arena?
[10:51] <Riddell> nixternal: it is now, that's new in RC
[10:52] <nixternal> Riddell: groovy
[10:52] <nixternal> ;)
[10:52] <DaSkreech> marseillai: Do you havea list of the things that you want to do?
[10:52] <marseillai> DaSkreech: i had
[10:53] <claydoh> I am liking digikam, it is much nicer than last time I used it, way back in KDE2x days
[10:53] <DaSkreech> Right you can do almost all of that from the alternte CD
[10:53] <Riddell> marseillai: all those things can be done after installation
[10:53] <Riddell> toma: ping
[10:53] <toma> Riddell: hi
[10:53] <marseillai> DaSkreech: euh!!!! you can't choose your package from alternate CD
[10:53] <Riddell> toma: where is the digikam development list?
[10:53] <apokryphos> claydoh: wow, didn't know it was even around back then
[10:53] <marseillai> Riddell: yes of course it can.
[10:53] <toma> Riddell: digikam-devel@kde.org
[10:54] <Lure> Riddell: http://www.digikam.org/
[10:54] <claydoh> tried it in Lycoris, but it wasn't that good and much fewr cameras were supported
[10:54] <Riddell> toma: is that list used for kipi plugins?
[10:54] <toma> Riddell: no, that is kde-imaging@kde.org
[10:54] <Riddell> toma: what's the difference between kipi plugins and digikam image plugins?
[10:55] <apokryphos> kipi plugins is used by loads of programs, including gwenview etc
[10:55] <toma> Riddell: kipi = fun extra's, imageplugins are for the editing of images
[10:55] <toma> the latter is only used in digikam
[10:55] <apokryphos> kipi-plugins has the excellent flickr export
[10:56] <Riddell> toma: we need to make sure kipi gets ported to graphicsmagick, else it'll use imagemagick and koffice will use graphicsmagick
[10:57] <toma> Riddell: allright, i'll send a mail to the list about it
[10:57] <Lure> toma: btw, do you have 0.9.0-beta3 packages for edgy? ;-)
[10:57] <ryanakca> how do you temporary disable konqueror's popup browser?
[10:57] <ryanakca> s/browser/blocker
[10:57] <toma> Lure: no, i'm no digikam developer anymore, and haven't packed anything in weeks. . 0.8.0 is better imho ;-)
[10:59] <toma> Riddell: do you want to send a mail with explanation, or should i?
[11:01] <Riddell> toma: depends if my e-mail will get through without being subscribed :)
[11:02] <toma> Riddell: i dont believe there is moderation on it, but send a copy to me so i can forward in case it is blocked
[11:03] <toma> i've no clue who moderates it
[11:03] <allee> Riddell: graphicsmagick is on TODO  for  post digikam 9.0.  Gilles is pissed by imagemagik API (instability) already
[11:03] <allee> Riddell: but can't hurt to 'raise' urgency ;)
[11:05] <fdoving> ryanakca: rightclik on the little icon on the lower right (statusbar) -> configure -> uncheck 'enable filters'
[11:06] <ryanakca> fdoving: kk, ty
[11:14] <nixternal> Riddell: do you have a link with some "accessibility profile" info I can add for content?
[11:16] <ryanakca> fdoving: erm... yeah... that isn't exactly working...
[11:16] <Riddell> nixternal: only https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/kubuntu-accessibility
[11:16] <ryanakca> fdoving: I'll get you a screenshot of the errors
[11:16] <Riddell> nixternal: but press F5 at the CD boot screen and choose a profile is the way to go
[11:16] <Lure> nixternal: http://blog.omma.net/?p=18
[11:16] <Riddell> nixternal: profiles are High Visibility, Keyboard Modifiers and Mouse Tool
[11:17] <ryanakca> fdoving: konqueror error: http://rkavanagh.homelinux.org/~ryan/konqueror.png
[11:18] <fdoving> ryanakca: have you upgraded KDE lately? 
[11:18] <ryanakca> erm... 2-3 days ago
[11:18] <nixternal> ask and you shall receive i see..thanks Riddell and Lure
[11:18] <fdoving> did you re-login? 
[11:18] <ryanakca> no... I'll do that
[11:22] <Tonio_> Sime: hey :) I'm just back
[11:22] <Tonio_> Sime: simply tell me when the patches are ready and I'll do it
[11:24] <nixternal> speaking of accessibility, are there other distros that have accessibility options during an install?
[11:24] <nixternal> i have never paid attention to it honestly
[11:24] <apokryphos> depends on what you mean
[11:25] <nixternal> high contrast, magnifier, keyboard modifiers
[11:25] <DaSkreech> Anyone used Kitty?
[11:25] <apokryphos> contrast -- generally, magnifier not so likely. Keyboard modifiers -- I should think so, yeah.
[11:26] <apokryphos> I know a lot of distros even load/detect braille keyboard settings even
[11:26] <nixternal> im sure ubuntu does as well, because i believe debian does the braille detection as well...i have a blind friend who uses debian
[11:26] <nixternal> i am only assuming though
[11:27] <apokryphos> accessibility is still quite far from perfect though, in the desktop environments themselves
[11:27] <apokryphos> they're overlooked a lot, I only know about kde's quite a bit because my brother talks about the work he does with it now and again
[11:28] <DaSkreech> apokryphos: What work?
[11:28] <apokryphos> DaSkreech: mostly confined to kttsd
[11:30] <DaSkreech> How good is text to speech?
[11:30] <apokryphos> (kde's text-to-speech daemon)
[11:30] <DaSkreech> and how would you i18n that app?
[11:30] <apokryphos> really not too bad at all (a lot of capabilities) but still far from perfect
[11:31] <apokryphos> Don't know, but most of the stuff they have is from already free/open tools
[11:31] <apokryphos> kate got support for ktts not too long ago, I believe
[11:32] <DaSkreech> Yeah I'm constantly baffled by what apps have a strong OSS following and those that don't
[11:32] <lexual> Riddell: Hi, are you still hanging about?
[11:33] <nixternal> abattoir: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuOEMInstaller <- is there something other than this i can point to for information?
[11:48] <nixternal> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyEft/RC/Kubuntu content is expanding, i will hit it with images tonight, unless someone wants to snap me some "default" 1024x768 images for digiKam and KTorrent, I have images for the others already
[11:49] <DaSkreech> Wonder if it's possible to get kitty packaged?
[11:50] <nixternal> not in time for edgy im guessing
[11:50] <nixternal> as none of my packages, well not none, but like 4 of them didn't get in...and all 4 were "New Upstream Versions"
[11:50] <nixternal> and they were all done on time at that
[11:52] <DaSkreech> Well not for edgy but someone justp ointed out there are no podcast apps for KDE
[11:52] <DaSkreech> gnomefreak: akregator doesn't do podcast it seems
[11:53] <nixternal> no, but amarok does
[11:53] <gnomefreak> sorry maybe it was amarok
[11:54] <DaSkreech> I know but that's a hell of an app to keep open just for podcasts
[11:54] <DaSkreech> (not according to me) :)
[11:59] <apokryphos> why would you ever close it? ;-)
[12:01] <DaSkreech> I do it cause it screws with my Alt+Space
[12:01] <apokryphos> I don't recall amarok grabbing that shortcut :/
[12:02] <apokryphos> but I do remember kerry and katapult fighting over it :D
[12:03] <DaSkreech> kerry?
[12:03] <DaSkreech> What did John do?
[12:03] <apokryphos> tripped up and fell!
[12:09] <nixternal> heh