[01:19] <chillywilly> lallallala
[01:46] <Crippy-Boy> hey
[02:40] <zul> so yeah i need another uvf
[02:41] <ajmitch> yay
[02:41] <Nafallo> oh. serverimages for amd64? :-)
[03:06] <zul> someone please shoot me
[03:07] <Nafallo> zul: why? you forgot to add serverkernels for amd64 in xen? :-P
[03:07] <ajmitch> zul: tempting..
[03:09] <purserj> morning all, can someone tell me if the move to dash for edgy has been accompanied by regression testing of packages (beyond the init scripts)?
[03:11] <sivang> purserj: you might find more answers in #ubuntu-devel I think
[03:12] <purserj> thanks
[03:22] <LaserJock> imbrandon: you awake?
[03:23] <ajmitch> hi LaserJock
[03:23] <LaserJock> hi
[03:25] <bddebian> Heya LaserJock, ajmitch
[03:25] <LaserJock> and how is Barry doing today?
[03:25] <imbrandon> LaserJock, yup
[03:26] <bddebian> LaserJock: Tired man, thanks. You?
[03:26] <LaserJock> imbrandon: have you installed the latest KDE4 for mac?
[03:26] <LaserJock> bddebian: same
[03:27] <imbrandon> LaserJock, not in the last week or so
[03:27] <LaserJock> imbrandon: the "everything" .dmg is 1.74GB!
[03:27] <imbrandon> wasup ?
[03:27] <imbrandon> LaserJock, yea it got a bit smaller
[03:27] <imbrandon> ;P
[03:27] <LaserJock> it was bigger?
[03:27] <LaserJock> my gosh
[03:28] <imbrandon> yea about 2.6 to start
[03:28] <LaserJock> wow, I didn't know there was even that much KDE software in existence
[03:28] <imbrandon> rember thats dbus kdelibs kdebase kdepimlibs koffice kdeedu kdegames
[03:28] <LaserJock> does any of the kio stuff work?
[03:28] <imbrandon> and all the debug and dev files too
[03:29] <imbrandon> LaserJock, yea almost all of it
[03:29] <LaserJock> cool
[03:29] <LaserJock> well I'm grabbing it at 300k/s but I just wondered if you had used it recently
[03:29] <imbrandon> everything "works" basicly , its just alot of polish issues
[03:29] <imbrandon> like kdeint makes an icon on launch along with the app
[03:30] <imbrandon> err kded not kdeinit
[03:30] <imbrandon> and little stuff like that
[03:30] <ajmitch> is there anything new there yet, or is it mostly the core libs that have been freshened?
[03:30] <ajmitch> we've heard all about these wonderful plans for plasma, and the related stuff
[03:30] <imbrandon> ajmitch, mostly just the core, plasma and stuff
[03:31] <imbrandon> isnt compileble yet
[03:31] <ajmitch> so plasma exists & is useful now?
[03:31] <ajmitch> right :)
[03:31] <imbrandon> well it exists but dosent compile mostly
[03:33] <LaserJock> imbrandon: do you have any OS X/Ubuntu dual boot machines?
[03:33] <imbrandon> well i do BUT my osx isnt exactly bootasble atm
[03:34] <imbrandon> bootable*
[03:34] <imbrandon> i need to reinstall it
[03:34] <imbrandon> but i was planning to wait till edgy was released and just doing a fresh install of both
[03:34] <LaserJock> how is access to the other partition? can you rw on your OS X partition from Ubuntu and the other way around?
[03:35] <imbrandon> sure, there is hpfs read rwite in linux ( as long as you tuen jjournaling off on the osx partition )
[03:35] <imbrandon> turn*
[03:35] <LaserJock> is that ok to do?
[03:35] <imbrandon> yea i've done it for months , no issues
[03:36] <imbrandon> that i've noticed
[03:36] <LaserJock> heh, except you can boot into OSX at the moment ;-)
[03:36] <imbrandon> well that was my bad, i was messing with the patition tables
[03:36] <imbrandon> when i tried to move /var to a new hdd
[03:37] <imbrandon> ;)
[03:37] <imbrandon> and if you want to leave journaling on, you can read it like ntfs
[03:38] <imbrandon> its just if you want read/write you have to turn off the journal ( kinda like when writing to ext3 from window, works buyt you have to turn off the journal )
[03:38] <imbrandon> ( and yes i know that efectively makes it ext2 shush )
[03:40] <TheMuso> imbrandon: How do you turn off the journal?
[03:41] <imbrandon> its a single command, i would have to google it again ( i do ever time becosue i only use it on reloads lol )
[03:41] <imbrandon> one sec
[03:41] <TheMuso> Right.
[03:41] <TheMuso> np I will google it when I need it.
[03:42] <imbrandon> http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=107248
[03:43] <imbrandon> thats for 10.2 but it still works on 10.4
[03:43] <imbrandon> theres also a way to do it on the command line too but i'm lazy
[03:43] <TheMuso> Right.
[03:45] <LaserJock> there is an option in disk utility to do it
[03:48] <LaserJock> doh, I just read one of my own old posts on the forum
[03:49] <LaserJock> I didn't realize it was me
[03:49] <LaserJock> I was thinking "what a dope" and then I looked at who wrote it :-)
[03:49] <bddebian> heh
[03:53] <imbrandon> haha
[04:10] <Toadstool> good evening everybody
[05:11] <imbrandon> heya Hobbsee
[05:12] <Hobbsee> hey imbrandon
[05:12] <imbrandon> i got gnash working on my ppc, so i can kinda see flash stuff on the web now
[05:12] <imbrandon> heh
[05:13] <imbrandon> well flash 7 or lower, but seems to work ok
[05:13] <imbrandon> still not as nice as adobe flash but i'm thinking if i give out deb's ( and get it in edgy+1 ) more people will use it and bug report/fix it
[05:14] <imbrandon> hehe
[05:24] <LaserJock> ok, so beta doesn't seem to like my mac
[05:25] <imbrandon> ouch
[05:25] <imbrandon> why ?
[05:25] <ajmitch> because macs are evil & wrong
[05:25] <imbrandon> hehe
[05:26] <LaserJock> well, I go to boot and it doesn't do anything
[05:26] <LaserJock> just a black screen
[05:26] <LaserJock> absolutely nothing
[05:26] <imbrandon> did you try to disable the splash screen? i had some problems with that
[05:27] <LaserJock> how do I do that in lilo?
[05:27] <imbrandon> ( turning acpi off helps too on some mac's )
[05:27] <TheMuso> mac == no acpi
[05:27] <TheMuso> At east powerpc.
[05:27] <TheMuso> least
[05:27] <LaserJock> it worked fine in Dapper
[05:27] <imbrandon> remove "splash" from the kernel line in lilo.conf afaik
[05:27] <imbrandon> and add "acpi=off"
[05:27] <LaserJock> there is no splash
[05:28] <imbrandon> try to add nosplash
[05:28] <imbrandon> i havent messed with lilo in ages
[05:28] <LaserJock> I'm sort of doubting that's it though
[05:28] <tritium> Hello.
[05:28] <imbrandon> LaserJock, you would be suprised, uspash killed my kdm and lots of stuff
[05:28] <LaserJock> as normally you at least get a second or two of kernel stuff before usplash kicks in don't you?
[05:29] <LaserJock> tritium!!
[05:29] <imbrandon> not really
[05:29] <tritium> LaserJock: :)
[05:29] <imbrandon> if you get nothing acpi could be it too, it will cause justa  blinking cursor in the top left ( or did on my hp )
[05:30] <LaserJock> I don't even have that
[05:46] <imbrandon> ...
[05:49] <Burgundavia> imbrandon: you having any luck with gnash?
[05:52] <imbrandon> Burgundavia, yea actualy i made soem debs last nigth
[05:52] <imbrandon> and i got it installed on my ppc
[05:52] <Burgundavia> imbrandon: got a link?
[05:52] <Burgundavia> you may have told me last night
[05:52] <imbrandon> sure what arech
[05:53] <imbrandon> arch* i'll have to build it again realfast
[05:53] <Burgundavia> x86
[05:53] <imbrandon> k one sec
[05:53] <ajmitch> imbrandon: what sites does it work with?
[05:53] <ajmitch> most?
[05:53] <imbrandon> ajmitch, most , fonts are a little funny
[05:53] <imbrandon> but it "works"
[05:53] <Burgundavia> the question of course is: "Does it work with Youtube"?
[05:54] <imbrandon> actualy yea , that was the first place i tried
[05:54] <imbrandon> heh
[05:54] <Burgundavia> that is a 1.0 release blocker right there
[05:54] <ajmitch> hehe
[05:54] <imbrandon> youtube and googlevideo both
[05:54] <Burgundavia> imbrandon: think we can ship it edgy+1?
[05:55] <imbrandon> one sec, let me upload it ( you'll have to rebuild for anything other than x86 as my ppc isnt dont compiling it yet
[05:55] <imbrandon> Burgundavia, yup thats my plan for pacaging it
[05:55] <imbrandon> packaging it*
[05:55] <Burgundavia> right
[05:55] <imbrandon> gah anyhow one sec
[05:55] <imbrandon> sudo mount /media/enterprise
[05:55] <imbrandon> oops
[05:58] <imbrandon> ok uploading now, it still has some packin issues and not ready for the public but good enough for you and ajmitch to test
[05:58] <imbrandon> so in other words dont mention the url "publicly" just yet please hehe
[05:58] <imbrandon> e.g the copyrights and stuff are all still placeholders etc etc etc
[05:59] <imbrandon> just to get it "working" then i was gonna clean all that up tonight
[05:59] <Burgundavia> imbrandon: no worries
[05:59] <Burgundavia> I am a little concerned about gnash and its choices of technology
[05:59] <Burgundavia> are they all in main?
[06:00] <imbrandon> umm afaik, mostly just gstreamer ( and plugins ) and libmad
[06:00] <imbrandon> are the only real deps
[06:00] <Burgundavia> does gnash use gstreamer?
[06:01] <Burgundavia> I thought it used sdl
[06:01] <imbrandon> it can, it uses sdl or gst , i compiled it with gst0.10
[06:01] <Burgundavia> ah, ok
[06:01] <imbrandon> it has lots of configure options
[06:01] <Burgundavia> and the other issue is it being gpl
[06:01] <Burgundavia> are their licensing issues with gpl plugins in firefox?
[06:02] <imbrandon> not that i'm aware, but i havent looked into it
[06:02] <Burgundavia> I think we (and DEbian) accept FF under the GPL
[06:03] <imbrandon> here is my build deps
[06:03] <imbrandon> Build-Depends: cdbs, debhelper (>= 5.0.0), libgtkglext1-dev, libboost-dev, libgstreamer0.10-dev,
[06:03] <imbrandon> libgl1-mesa-dev, libpng12-dev, libjpeg62-dev, libmad0-dev
[06:03] <imbrandon> just fyi
[06:03] <Burgundavia> however, gnash as a gstreamer plugin is more problematic
[06:03] <Burgundavia> libmad is a an issue
[06:03] <imbrandon> i havent looked but i think all those are in main
[06:04] <imbrandon> it dosent REQUIRE libmad, only if you want mp3 decoding
[06:04] <imbrandon> eg i compiled with --with-mp3-decoder=mad
[06:04] <Burgundavia> ah
[06:05] <Burgundavia> http://packages.ubuntu.com/dapper/libs/libmad0
[06:05] <imbrandon> its in main
[06:05] <imbrandon>    libmad0 | 0.15.1b-2.1 | http://192.168.1.5 edgy/main Packages
[06:05] <Burgundavia> but it decodes mp3s...
[06:06] <imbrandon> so does xmms, aparently not all mp3 decoding is wrong ( eg gst can to with fluendo )
[06:07] <Burgundavia> ok, what does mad do?
[06:07] <Burgundavia> why do we need to install lame to get mp3 playback?
[06:07] <Burgundavia> ah, it doesn't actually do mp3
[06:07] <crimsun> (no, xmms and libmad are not supposed to be in main still. I suspect they remain for legacy reasons [or someone employed by Canonical wishing them to remain] )
[06:07] <Burgundavia> It currently only supports the MPEG 1 standard
[06:07] <Burgundavia> from the package description
[06:08] <crimsun> currently the fluendo GSt plugin is the only "legal" one
[06:08] <Burgundavia> crimsun: you builds your distro, you gets your stuff in main
[06:08] <imbrandon> anyhow we can build without it ( gnash ) thats not an issue , i just choose to test it this way , its only plem package for us MOTU's to test etc
[06:09] <Burgundavia> does flash usually embed mp3s?
[06:09] <imbrandon> Burgundavia, most do
[06:09] <crimsun> quite often.
[06:09] <imbrandon> thats the prefered flash format
[06:09] <Burgundavia> ah, fun
[06:10] <Burgundavia> so even though we have a free flash player, it will still be crippled
[06:10] <imbrandon> Burgundavia, ok here is what i have so far ( "works" on my ppc ) http://www.imbrandon.com/packages/pool/edgy/gnash/ as i said though work in progress and feedback welcome
[06:11] <imbrandon> the copyright and stuff like that is obviously wrong etc
[06:11] <Burgundavia> yep
[06:12] <imbrandon> also note that is version 0.7.2 and it /should/ be 0.7.1+svn20061016 but i was too lazy to change it before i uploaded
[06:12] <Burgundavia> right
[06:12] <imbrandon> i'll change that later
[06:12] <Burgundavia> are they not about to release 7.2?
[06:12] <imbrandon> not sure when , but the cvs is active as in a commit every few hours the last week(s)
[06:13] <imbrandon> so looks promising
[06:13] <imbrandon> it says it will play every flash 7 or below well and /some/ flash 8 stuff
[06:13] <imbrandon> so /should/ play most files
[06:14] <Burgundavia> begone foul macromedia crap
[06:14] <imbrandon> i only tried a few simple flash games and youtube
[06:14] <imbrandon> fonts are a bit ugly as i said but it "works"
[06:14] <Burgundavia> hmm, youtube is giving me the "install flash" error
[06:14] <imbrandon> and suprisingly no crashes, even on stuff that dident work ( like nelly.net )
[06:15] <Burgundavia> tmp/buildd/.firefox/plugins/libgnashplugin.so
[06:15] <Burgundavia> umm...
[06:15] <imbrandon> ahh crap, my bad, i have that fixed just not rebuilt
[06:15] <imbrandon> move that so to you firefox plugins dir
[06:15] <imbrandon> and it will work
[06:16] <imbrandon> ( after firefox restart )
[06:16] <Burgundavia> where is the ff dir?
[06:16] <imbrandon>  /usr/lib/firefox/plugins iirc
[06:17] <imbrandon> yea  ^^
[06:17] <Burgundavia> well, I just had a crash
[06:17] <imbrandon> ouch
[06:18] <imbrandon> hrm what site?
[06:18] <Burgundavia> youtube
[06:18] <Burgundavia> the only flash site worth going to
[06:18] <Burgundavia> I am getting a flash, then a grey box now
[06:19] <imbrandon> Burgundavia, should be something like this http://federation.imbrandon.com/ss_gnash1.png
[06:20] <Burgundavia> ya, no
[06:20] <Burgundavia> lots of grey boxes
[06:20] <imbrandon> hrm
[06:20] <Burgundavia> at least gnash is out of process so it doesn't haul down my entire browser as well
[06:20] <crimsun> there's an environment variable you need to pass to firefox if you're using the composite extension
[06:20] <imbrandon> ajmitch, can you grab the dsc from that url and build to see if you get the same thing ?
[06:21] <Burgundavia> crimsun: comp extension?
[06:21] <imbrandon> crimsun, comp ext ?
[06:21] <imbrandon> from gtkext ?
[06:22] <crimsun> well how dandy, LP is down so I can't locate the bug #
[06:22] <imbrandon> heh
[06:22] <imbrandon> you mean from libgtkglext1-dev ? hum in kde i dont
[06:23] <imbrandon> as i just took that screen shot just now but that dont mean its correct heh
[06:24] <imbrandon> yea but all in all it does look like something for edgy+1 but its rough
[06:25] <imbrandon> thats for sure
[06:25] <imbrandon> honestly i'm suprised no one has packaged it yet
[06:25] <imbrandon> would go along way to people using it and reporting bugs
[06:27] <Burgundavia> yep
[06:27] <Burgundavia> do they have a proper bug tracker?
[06:28] <imbrandon> https://savannah.gnu.org/bugs/?group=gnash
[06:33] <Burgundavia> crimsun: what sort of env variable? don't remember off hand?
[06:33] <crimsun> skip arb visual or something
[06:34] <crimsun> it's in the flashplugin-nonfree bug reports
[06:34] <Burgundavia> ah
[06:35] <crimsun> I'm sure someone has blogged about it, but I don't remember the precise env var
[06:35] <imbrandon> forums probably have it too
[06:35] <imbrandon> somewhere
[06:36] <imbrandon> i cant beleave i just said that
[06:36] <imbrandon> lol
[06:36] <Burgundavia> is it gnash specific?
[06:36] <ajmitch> no, xlib-specific I think
[06:37] <imbrandon> probabbly not if it effects flashplugin-nonfree too
[06:37] <imbrandon> i wonder if the adobe guys are gonna make a ppc and amd64 version of 9
[06:38] <imbrandon> i mean they will certainly make a win64 and a osx version so i dont see an issue but who knows
[06:38] <ajmitch> I hope they do
[06:38] <Burgundavia> if I were Adobe I probably wouldn't
[06:38] <Burgundavia> tbh
[06:38] <imbrandon> flash and mp3's are our biggest issues
[06:38] <Burgundavia> more QA headache for little gain
[06:39] <imbrandon> well bigests as in problematic from a new user perspective of every day user
[06:39] <imbrandon> there are bigger fish , i know heh
[06:39] <Burgundavia> yes
[06:40] <imbrandon> i bet the PR from releasing flashplayer source gpl would make Macromedia Flash MX salse go up
[06:40] <imbrandon> but then again maybe not
[06:41] <Burgundavia> answered teh phone 5 times in the past 30 minutes. Not once was it for me
[06:41] <Burgundavia> bloody roommates
[06:41] <imbrandon> Burgundavia, hehe
[06:41] <nixternal> imbrandon: nice blog post there ;)
[06:41] <nixternal> hey, did you get my notice earlier with that comic link?
[06:41] <imbrandon> nixternal, yea i thought it was a bit funny
[06:41] <imbrandon> and yea i saw the comic link
[06:41] <nixternal> me too, but i wasn't going to post about that one
[06:42] <nixternal> the comic that is
[06:42] <imbrandon> heh i thought it was in bad tatse but to each their own ;)
[06:42] <imbrandon> taste*
[06:42] <nixternal> just another jealous gentoo user im sure
[06:42] <imbrandon> lol
[06:42] <nixternal> damn
[06:42] <nixternal> YAJGU Comic
[06:43] <nixternal> that is the blog post there
[06:43] <Burgundavia> crimsun: was the env variable to do with locale?
[06:44] <imbrandon> ajmitch / crimsun if you have time tonight to poke that gnash i just uploaded , i'll clean it up a bit and make a blog post and see if we can get some more intrest going
[06:44] <imbrandon> ajmitch, specialy since you have no flash-nonfree installed so you "know" its purly gnash
[06:44] <crimsun> Burgundavia: no SKIP_ARB_VISUALS=1 or something
[06:44] <imbrandon> purely
[06:45] <crimsun> imbrandon: I probably won't have time, sorry. Trying to finish up vlc prior to 6.10 RC.
[06:45] <imbrandon> crimsun, no worries
[06:45] <imbrandon> yea thats more important right now
[06:45] <LaserJock> wahoo
[06:46] <ajmitch> LaserJock: wahoo?
[06:47] <LaserJock> I got it
[06:47] <LaserJock> I was able to add a nosplash to lilo
[06:47] <LaserJock> and it booted
[06:47] <imbrandon> hrm /me looks puzzled, if it is installing it via cdbs in tmp/buildd/.firefox/.... shouldent it find it in debian/gnash/.firefox/plugins/libgnashplugin.so  ?
[06:47] <ajmitch> ah, I see
[06:47] <LaserJock> the weird thing is, it booted with the splash ?!?
[06:47] <ajmitch> imbrandon: probably not
[06:47] <imbrandon> LaserJock, hehe told ya , it dosent seem like it should affect it but it does
[06:48] <imbrandon> ajmitch, hum why not, i guess i'm mis understanding something then
[06:49] <ajmitch> just a min
[06:49] <ajmitch> trying to figure out what to do about UDS stuff
[06:49] <LaserJock> now if I can just get the ATI drivers
[06:49] <imbrandon> thats the only fix that gets misplaced durring make install so i thought "mv debian/gnash/.firefox/plugins/libgnashplugin.so debian/gnash/usr/lib/firefox/plugins/" would work in the binary-install target
[06:49] <imbrandon> okies
[06:50] <imbrandon> s/fix/file
[06:50] <imbrandon> LaserJock, is it a moble ati ?
[06:50] <imbrandon> ( e.g. notebook or some mac mini's )
[06:50] <LaserJock> I don't think so
[06:50] <imbrandon> kk nvm then
[06:50] <LaserJock> iMac
[06:50] <imbrandon> yea imac should be full fledged card
[06:51] <imbrandon> iirc
[06:51] <LaserJock> yeah
[06:51] <imbrandon> i just know my moble ati card in the ibook cant use flrgx or w/e it is
[06:51] <imbrandon> it has to use the OSS driver
[06:52] <imbrandon> was gonna make sure you checked first hehe
[06:52] <imbrandon> it took me half a day before i decided to look at the supported cards lol
[06:53] <ajmitch> anyone want to donate some money for a worthy cause? ;)
[06:53] <Hobbsee> hah
[06:53] <imbrandon> i really wish i had some , i would bro
[06:53] <Hobbsee> really worthy, i'll bet
[06:53] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: of course it is
[06:53] <crimsun> I thought you were invited, ajmitch
[06:53] <ajmitch> you ever doubt me?
[06:54] <ajmitch> heh
[06:55] <ajmitch> have to sort out hotel stuff
[06:55] <Hobbsee> ahh
[06:56] <imbrandon> ajmitch, you got the flight stuff covered?
[06:56] <ajmitch> imbrandon: barely
[06:56] <chillywilly> bah
[06:57] <imbrandon> ajmitch, nice, thats good atleaste, i would say you could bunk in my hotel room but i dont know whom else i'll be in the hotel with or what the policys etc are
[06:57] <Burgundavia> http://lwn.net/Articles/204758/
[06:57] <Burgundavia> hmm, good comment
[06:58] <imbrandon> ajmitch, if you care to poke, i wouldent mind having a 3rd in the room
[06:58] <imbrandon> not even sure whom to poke tbh
[07:03] <imbrandon> crimsun, btw i forgot to mention if you need a guiney pig for something i can test vlc as i use that as my primary player on my lappy
[07:04] <imbrandon> that is if you need soemthing etc etc etc
[07:04] <crimsun> I'm working my way through a merge of the newest from Sid
[07:05] <imbrandon> nice
[07:05] <crimsun> I hate that I can't test if it will FTBFS just like the current Edgy source package (due to translations)
[07:05] <imbrandon> translations make it FTB ? wow
[07:06] <crimsun> pbuilds/sbuilds fine locally. Dies on the buildd.
[07:06] <imbrandon> yea i hate when that happens, usaly its a auto{conf,build} thing for me when it does
[07:52] <siretart> morning
[07:53] <siretart> ajmitch: any idea why motu-uvf is assigned with bug #43150? I see nothing to do for edgy
[07:53] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 43150 in gcl "[SRU]  maxima frontends fail to connect" [Undecided,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/43150
[07:54] <minghua> siretart: I believe that's for "universe stable release update team"
[07:54] <minghua> siretart: and since when it's formed it's likely going to be the people in motu-uvf anyway... :-)
[07:55] <LaserJock> siretart: dholbach said to subscribe motu-uvf to it
[07:55] <siretart> ah, ok
[07:56] <LaserJock> we need a gcl update and rebuild of maxima
[07:56] <siretart> I didn't notice that we already agreed on how to do stable updates
[07:56] <LaserJock> we didn't
[07:56] <LaserJock> that's why it's subscribed to motu-uvf instead of a motu-sru
[07:56] <LaserJock> or similar
[07:56] <siretart> ah, as interim "solution". ok
[07:57] <crimsun> imbrandon: will you be around for another 20 minutes or so?
[07:57] <LaserJock> yeah
[07:58] <imbrandon> crimsun, yea
[07:58] <crimsun> imbrandon: if you don't mind, will you test merged vlc/amd64 debs?
[08:03] <superm1> crimsun, I can take a look if you need a set of eyes on an amd64 box.  i've got one here
[08:03] <superm1> just give me a link to the source, and i'll build and test it
[08:06] <crimsun> superm1: it's currently pbuilding/sbuilding
[08:06] <superm1> Ok.  Well then when binaries are ready, i'll be glad to take a look
[08:06] <crimsun> 2 minutes.
[08:07] <imbrandon> crimsun, sorry was having some irc server issues, but yea i'll be arround
[08:07] <imbrandon> and would be happy to test
[08:07] <crimsun> -> cleaning the build env
[08:08] <crimsun> imbrandon: / superm1: http://adhd.irule.net/~crimsun/
[08:09] <imbrandon> grabbing now
[08:10] <crimsun> thanks
[08:11] <superm1> i can test the player, but cant mozilla plugin for it.  installing...
[08:13] <superm1> yup its working for me.  installs clean, and playing back okay with some xvid/ac3 files as well as mpeg2/ac3 and mpeg2/mp2 files.
[08:14] <superm1> anything in particular that has changed that will be iffy functionality wise?
[08:14] <imbrandon> yup every thing seems fine here too
[08:15] <imbrandon> playing all my media
[08:15] <superm1> i dont have any x264 files to check that since it looks like it was in the changelog though.
[08:16] <crimsun> please test a dvd
[08:17] <crimsun> I doubt that has been fixed, but feel free to try
[08:17] <imbrandon> a commercial one ?
[08:17] <crimsun> yes
[08:17] <imbrandon> one sec
[08:17] <crimsun> there are dupes where it will crash on amd64
[08:17] <superm1> oh that will take a few minutes to find ;)
[08:17] <crimsun> (not much we can do about it presently, however)
[08:17] <crimsun> (same for the keyboard shortcuts)
[08:18] <superm1> resevoir dogs here. and its struglling
[08:19] <crimsun> I'm not entirely convinced it's vlc's fault.
[08:19] <superm1> let me throw it thru xine then and make sure that libdvdcss2 isnt yelling at me then
[08:19] <crimsun> I have libdvdcss2 1.2.9-1 installed (locally compiled)
[08:20] <superm1> i'm running 1.2.5-1 locally compiled here.
[08:20] <superm1> Oh it definately segfaulted on the dvd.   xine played it fine
[08:21] <crimsun> ok, good.
[08:21] <imbrandon> oh wow segfaults
[08:21] <imbrandon> yea here too
[08:21] <crimsun> well, not really good per se, but no regression.
[08:21] <superm1> haha
[08:21] <imbrandon> it tried to play, sorta
[08:21] <imbrandon> then segfaults
[08:21] <crimsun> -rw-r--r--  1 crimsun crimsun  15M 2006-10-18 01:46 vlc_0.8.6-svn20061012.debian-1ubuntu1.debdiff
[08:21] <crimsun> checkout that monster.
[08:21] <imbrandon> wow
[08:21] <superm1> thats huge.
[08:22] <superm1> that many changes in svn since the last release, huh?
[08:22] <crimsun> that's essentially two entire new upstream snapshots rolled in as dpatches
[08:22] <imbrandon> wow
[08:22] <crimsun> so to kill the FTBFS, I'm just going to file an UVFe.
[08:24] <crimsun> imbrandon: / superm1: hang for 5 mins, please; I'll grab a LP bug# for you guys to affirm
[08:24] <superm1> k
[08:24] <imbrandon> kk
[08:26] <imbrandon> heh now i wanan watch my farscape peacekeepers dvd
[08:28] <ajmitch> hi siretart - I see the other explained it
[08:28] <ajmitch> I didn't know about it either :)
[08:29] <siretart> ajmitch: yes :)
[08:31] <superm1> siretart, the other day you mentioned that the change from bin/sh to bin/bash in mythplugins would be good until we got a upstream revision that fixed the problem properly?  I spoke with marrillat and he released a cleaned up package this morning that i merged to earlier: bug 66564
[08:31] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 66564 in mythplugins "Mythweb doesn't set permissions correctly" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/66564
[08:31] <ajmitch> heh, linus is so diplomatic...
[08:31] <ajmitch> "You must be doing something wrong. Is it just that people want to pee in
[08:32] <ajmitch> the snow and leave their mark?"
[08:32] <ajmitch> talking on the bzr mailing list
[08:32] <imbrandon> lol
[08:34] <lifeless> ajmitch: there are much more choice comments from him
[08:35] <lifeless> it gives me hope that bzr will win, simply through offending our users less
[08:35] <Burgundavia> hmm, linus calls confusing "expressive"
[08:35] <Burgundavia> I liked that
[08:36] <ajmitch> lifeless: yes, just reading through the VCS comparison thread now
[08:37] <siretart> superm1: cool. good work
[08:37] <siretart> superm1: are these changes critical for edgy?
[08:38] <superm1> i wouldnt say the entire patch is critical for edgy, but it would be nice to have at least the mythweb part of the patch put in
[08:38] <superm1> makes for a *much* cleaner mythweb install
[08:38] <siretart> ajmitch: could you please have a look at bug #62751
[08:38] <siretart> bug 62751
[08:38] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62751 in usplash "Upstart doesn't activate luks volumes in cryptsetup" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62751
[08:38] <superm1> at least in my vmware virtual machine
[08:39] <ajmitch> ok
[08:39] <siretart> ajmitch: I'd like to hear your opinion if you think we should upload Scotts openvt patch. works for me and others, at least
[08:39] <siretart> but I think I'm a bit biased, so I'ld like to hear a neutral opinion
[08:40] <ajmitch> siretart: having the password show is worrying still
[08:41] <siretart> ajmitch: removing 'splash' fixes this
[08:41] <ajmitch> siretart: though being able to enter the password at all is critical
[08:41] <ajmitch> I'd upload & document the splash issue
[08:41] <ajmitch> otherwise people who upgrade from dapper will have big problems
[08:42] <siretart> oh yes
[08:42] <siretart> I have a quite angry collegue about this
[08:42] <siretart> I'd perhaps implement a solution which would fetch the key from an usb stick or something
[08:44] <imbrandon> yea i alwasy wondered how i could essentialy "lock" my computer not to work without a usb key
[08:44] <imbrandon> maybe sometime i'll find the time to google it
[08:44] <ajmitch> one way is to boot from USB
[08:45] <imbrandon> ahh yea that would be the easy solutiuon, but i dont think my iBook supports that
[08:45] <imbrandon> firewire, but i dont think usb
[08:46] <imbrandon> could probably put /boot on the usb stick though and grub on the hda and essentialy be the same thing
[08:46] <siretart> ajmitch: start with crypting swap. thats easy, just take /dev/random as key
[08:46] <siretart> imbrandon: you need to place a script in your initramfs, which tries to mount your stick, and fetches the key from there
[08:46] <siretart> imbrandon: it is on my todo list, I'll blog an howto for that when I finished that ;)
[08:46] <imbrandon> as long as the initram could mount the usb stick
[08:46] <siretart> thats the other solution
[08:47] <siretart> again another solution propagated by many debian developers is to put everything but /boot on an LVM in a crypted PV
[08:47] <imbrandon> although without encrypting it like siretart said you would be able tyo boot from a cdrom
[08:47] <ajmitch> siretart: I have swap encrypted
[08:47] <siretart> ajmitch: :)
[08:47] <ajmitch> I didn't have time to move everything else :)
[08:48] <imbrandon> hrm i'll be doing a reinstall before mtv , i might try ti
[08:48] <ajmitch> so it was more an experiment that never went anywhere :)
[08:48] <imbrandon> why encrypt swap?
[08:49] <ajmitch> because all sorts of interesting stuff gets swapped out
[08:49] <imbrandon> how much of a preformace hit will this be to my poor old lappy
[08:49] <imbrandon> heh
[08:50] <ajmitch> shouldn't be much
[08:50] <ajmitch> disk is generally much slower than CPU
[08:50] <siretart> imbrandon: how paranoid are  you with having your gpg passphrase written out in plaintext to your hard drive?
[08:50] <imbrandon> siretart, WHA !?!
[08:50] <siretart> imbrandon: well, if those pages get swapped out (e.g. because of hibernating), this is what happens
[08:51] <imbrandon> oh jez
[08:51] <minghua> imbrandon: that's how it's written when gpg's memory gets swapped out
[08:51] <ajmitch> of course you can't actually hibernate with encrypted swap :)
[08:51] <siretart> hrhr
[08:51] <crimsun> superm1: / imbrandon: please affirm successful install and execution on bug 66686 , thanks.
[08:51] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 66686 in vlc "[Edgy UVF exception request]  vlc_0.8.6-svn20061012.debian-1ubuntu1" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/66686
[08:51] <imbrandon> i never hybernate or suspend anyhow but still
[08:53] <imbrandon> crimsun, done
[08:53] <superm1> done
[08:56] <dholbach> good morning
[08:56] <siretart> heyheyhey, dholbach!
[08:56] <imbrandon> heya dholbach
[08:58] <dholbach> hey siretart, hey imbrandon
[08:58] <dholbach> HAPPY HUG DAY!
[08:59] <ajmitch> daniel!!
[08:59] <dholbach> ANDREW!"
[09:00] <imbrandon> imbra..... oh wait , i'm supose to say someone elses name :/
[09:00] <imbrandon> :)
[09:05] <imbrandon> looks like there is a full howto on the forums siretart for breezy, shouldent be hard to subsitute for edgy i would assume
[09:07] <imbrandon> hrm i think i'm gonna reinstall my lappy and do this
[09:07] <imbrandon> now that you all have me paranoid
[09:07] <imbrandon> lol
[09:08] <ajmitch> dholbach: ready to rock the world?
[09:08] <superm1> imbrandon, at least your not as paranoid as i was about my wireless.  I went crazy and wiped my motorola firmware from my router.  i through openwrt on there  I installed openvpn, and signed all of my keys against cacert.org.  I then had the router drop all packets that weren't intended for that router on the non-standard port I had openvpn running on :)
[09:09] <imbrandon> heh
[09:09] <dholbach> ajmitch: getting ready :)
[09:09] <superm1> but this encrypting partitions stuff has me thinking....... I wanted to ditch reiserfs anyhow....
[09:10] <superm1> i'll have to watch for how well your luck goes with it
[09:10] <imbrandon> yea i had no idea about the swap thing, thats scarry to me ( esp how important my gpg info is to me )
[09:11] <superm1> well thinkabout if you pipe /dev/mem into strings.  you know how much useful info you can get from that.  then think about how often your swap is substituted for memory.  really can be scary
[09:19] <imbrandon> hrm atleaste swap should be done ootb imho
[09:19] <imbrandon> maybe for edgy+1
[09:21] <ajmitch> nah
[09:22] <ajmitch> as we said, it breaks hibernation
[09:22] <ajmitch> too many people want that
[09:22] <imbrandon> ahh true
[09:22] <imbrandon> wont stop me though
[09:22] <imbrandon> i'm doing the swap now and will likely reinstall everything in te next 24 hours
[09:23] <imbrandon> i been meaning to do it anyhow as my partitons are all too small
[09:23] <ajmitch> I'll probably just move all the data off, setup encrypted volumes, move it back on
[09:23] <minghua> well, my feeling is that if someone gets his hands on my laptop swap I am screwed already, so I don't bother that
[09:23] <imbrandon> minghua, probably but i dont like the idea anyway
[09:24] <imbrandon> i'm just doing my swap as a "test" and going to just backup my /home and format everything
[09:24] <imbrandon> i need to take osx off here before mtv anyhow so i have some extra space
[09:24] <imbrandon> i never use it anymore anyhow
[09:25] <minghua> imbrandon: nothing wrong with you.  it's never paranoid enough when it comes to security
[09:25] <imbrandon> sides if i do it now and there are any bugs i have time to work the kinks out before i'm on the road
[09:25] <minghua> I am just lazy
[09:26] <imbrandon> minghua, true heh
[09:26] <imbrandon> anytime i head "plain text" and pasword i get all itchy
[09:26] <ajmitch> hehe
[09:26] <imbrandon> 'specialy gpg password
[09:26] <Fujitsu> What's all this rioting?
[09:26] <ajmitch> imbrandon: it'll still be insecure
[09:27] <imbrandon> ajmitch, well yea but far less
[09:27] <imbrandon> heh just buy more ram and no swap
[09:27] <imbrandon> lol
[09:28] <imbrandon> plus just the "cool" factor of a usb stick needed to boot the lappy is nice in of itself
[09:28] <crimsun> imbrandon: / superm1: thanks
[09:29] <imbrandon> but that just made it a bit more urgent
[09:29] <imbrandon> crimsun, np
[09:29] <superm1> np crimsun
[09:29] <imbrandon> crimsun, lemme know if you need anything else
[09:29] <Fujitsu> But the `Oh $#&# the USB key just died factor is a bit of a turn-off :P
[09:29] <Fujitsu> *died'
[09:29] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, backups ;)
[09:29] <Fujitsu> imbrandon, still...
[09:29] <imbrandon> image the usbstick and encrypt it offsite
[09:30] <minghua> encrypt with what?
[09:30] <imbrandon> minghua, tbd heh
[09:31] <imbrandon> or just image it and put ina safety deposit box
[09:31] <imbrandon> :)
[09:31] <minghua> you can ask someone else to encrypt it for you - just like leave your backup key to your neighbor :-)
[09:31] <imbrandon> true
[09:32] <imbrandon> thats all bordering on nsa security heh
[09:32] <imbrandon> or use a second signed key
[09:32] <imbrandon> lol
[09:33] <ajmitch> ouch
[09:33] <ajmitch> very stuttery logout sound
[09:33] <ajmitch> I believe that's been disabled now anyway...
[09:33] <superm1> i think that the image in a safety deposit box is the best bet.  if someone really wants your data bad enough to go through the trouble of breaking into a bank to get your safety deposit box, and figuring out that you have an image in there- you might as well make it worth their trouble
[09:34] <imbrandon> lol
[09:34] <Fujitsu> superm1, if they figure that much out, you've probably got more to worry about than your data.
[09:34] <minghua> but he still doesn't have the passphrase!
[09:34] <superm1> lol
[09:35] <imbrandon> hahah if they break into the bank to steal your image i image getting your passphrase has already been done
[09:35] <minghua> Hmm, makes sense
[09:35] <ajmitch> I just booted windows XP :)
[09:35] <imbrandon> ajmitch, blasphmey !?!
[09:35] <imbrandon> heh
[09:35] <Fujitsu> ajmitch, you evil evil thing.
[09:36] <ajmitch> you'll live
[09:36] <imbrandon> see if you can checkinstall msoffice in cygwin while your there, will make a good blog post
[09:36] <Fujitsu> The only way to destroy a Windows user.
[09:36] <Fujitsu> imbrandon, yes!
[09:37] <imbrandon> i actualy thought about setting up a co-linux edgy / xp box  on the amd64
[09:37] <imbrandon> just havent found the time
[09:37] <imbrandon> nor motavation
[09:38] <Fujitsu> Ah good, I've still got a shard of CD left >:-)
[09:39] <imbrandon> hum isnt swap supose to showup on `mount'
[09:39] <ajmitch> no
[09:39] <imbrandon> i dont think my swapspace has been activating heh
[09:39] <ajmitch> actually it should, I think
[09:39] <superm1> free -m will show it there
[09:39] <Lathiat> doesnt here
[09:39] <Lathiat> cat /proc/swaps does
[09:40] <ajmitch> did you change /etc/fstab to point to the new volume?
[09:40] <imbrandon> ajmitch, well i was going too but it wasent in there, thats what got me thinking it waswent mounting on boot
[09:40] <imbrandon> heh i have a /dev/hda5 swap but nothing in fstab
[09:40] <imbrandon> for hda5
[09:41] <imbrandon> but  cat /proc/swaps shows it soooo /me is a tad confused
[09:44] <minghua> I don't think swap is shown in mount output
[09:45] <imbrandon> no that would not be good
[09:45] <imbrandon> hum this isnt supported form the installer?
[09:45] <imbrandon> from*
[09:46] <imbrandon> e.g. i have to make a temp install and do all this stuff then move it ?
[09:46] <imbrandon> and use the temp install space as swap
[09:46] <ajmitch> probably\
[09:46] <ajmitch> at best the alternate installer may support it
[09:46] <ajmitch> I know debian's installer does now
[09:47] <imbrandon> hrm , i hope the daily images are good, i think i'm gonna grab an alternate and try this
[09:49] <imbrandon> someone has already digg'd that 6.10 is released :(
[09:49] <imbrandon> http://my.opera.com/Camus/blog/2006/10/17/ubuntu-6-10-is-here
[10:42] <sivang> morning
[11:23] <ajmitch> hi siretart :)
[11:29] <thom> ajmitch: have you played with selinux on edgy?
[11:30] <siretart> hi ajmitch :)
[11:30] <ajmitch> yes
[11:31] <thom> ajmitch: any hints - installing selinux-policy-default from universe just bombed bitching about selinuxfs
[11:31] <ajmitch> you'll run into real issues on edgy due to the change to upstart, which won't load the policy
[11:31] <ajmitch> I've got a mostly-baked patch to it to do that
[11:31] <thom> i've not got upstart installed
[11:32] <ajmitch> ideally you'd use that, newer libselinux, libsepol, checkpolicy, etc along with the modular reference policy from debian
[11:32] <thom> right
[11:32] <thom> tried that; it ran for approx 12 hours ttrying to relabel
[11:32] <thom> (in vmware this is)
[11:33] <ajmitch> that's quite awhile, not overly surprising for the first time relabelling in vmware
[11:33] <thom> you'd expect it to run that long on a 400MB image?
[11:33] <ajmitch> hm, I think keybuk disabled the selinux patch in sysvinit at some point
[11:33] <ajmitch> for something that small, no
[11:34] <thom> if that lasted till edgy i'm going to punch him in the face at UDS
[11:34] <ajmitch> I'd expect it to take much less than an hour on my laptop with 70GB of stuff
[11:34] <ajmitch> you need selinux support in?
[11:34] <ajmitch> I think it was turned off because the patch was noisy by default, and then we moved to upstart
[11:35] <thom> i don't have a key here otherwise i'd upload it with it turned back on
[11:36] <ajmitch> we have both people who like selinux & people who hate it in the team
[11:36] <thom> no, it looks like it got turned back on during the edgy merges
[11:36] <ajmitch> so it'd be a fight to get it in by default at any point
[11:36] <thom> no no
[11:36] <ivoks> thom: you use selinux?
[11:36] <thom> it's just a case of convincing mark it's shiny
[11:37] <ajmitch> heh
[11:37] <thom> ivoks: looking into it for work
[11:37] <ajmitch> we need to borrow some of the nice shiny UI from fedora then
[11:37] <thom> well, that shouldn't be a challenge
[11:37] <thom> fedora theft is well established
[11:37] <ajmitch> maybe mix in some compositing effects
[11:37] <ajmitch> & we have a winner
[11:37] <thom> heh
[11:37] <ivoks> i tried once
[11:37] <ivoks> on rh
[11:38] <ivoks> once and never again
[11:38] <thom> well, my choices are get selinux working or run openbsd
[11:38] <ajmitch> ouch
[11:38] <thom> and, frankly, i'm willing to put up with near infinite amounts of pain to avoid openbsd
[11:38] <ajmitch> at the moment, debian is a better choice over edgy
[11:39] <ajmitch> since I didn't have the time when it counted to get things updated for edgy
[11:39] <thom> yeah, which is somewhat irritating
[11:39] <thom> since everything else is either ubuntu or solaris
[11:39] <ajmitch> it's mainly going to be a matter of pulling the right packages in & integrating them
[11:40] <ajmitch> partly why I want xen to play with as well
[11:40] <thom> nod
[11:41] <ajmitch> are you going to MV next month?
[11:41] <thom> yes
[11:41] <ajmitch> I see you were down for everything I'm interested in
[11:43] <ajmitch> so you tried the reference policy & it was the one taking a long time to relabel?
[11:44] <thom> yep
[11:45] <thom> and yes, it looks like we have pretty similar interests at this point
[11:51] <thom> i might try it on a real machine in a minute
[12:34] <StevenK> dholbach: Ping.
[12:35] <ajmitch> hi StevenK
[12:39] <Chandan> Hi
[12:40] <Chandan> Fujitsu, what will be the build system you will be using for compiling packages
[12:40] <Fujitsu> Chandan, what do you mean by build system?
[12:41] <Chandan> Fujitsu, Host system ..(Os its version) ..where you will be building the package
[12:41] <Fujitsu> Why does this matter?
[12:41] <Chandan> Fujitsu, Means .. a package for dapper is compiled on dapper itself or what
[12:42] <Fujitsu> A package for Dapper is built on the appropriate architecture using Dapper, etc.
[12:42] <dholbach> StevenK: pong
[12:43] <Gloubiboulga> Chandan, the host system does not need to be dapper, you can build a package for dapper on edgy or sid
[12:43] <Chandan> Fujitsu, Because If I build a package over dapper and if I try to install that over breezy ..dependency problem is coming ..So the base system should be the same release of the distro
[12:43] <Gloubiboulga> you just have to use a chroot
[12:43] <StevenK> dholbach: galago-gtk-python also needs a rebuild upload for the new libgalago SOVER. Can I go ahead?
[12:44] <Chandan> Gloubiboulga, Can I build a package for dapper in breezy
[12:44] <Gloubiboulga> Chandan, yes
[12:45] <Gloubiboulga> Chandan, look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
[12:45] <dholbach> StevenK: sure
[12:46] <StevenK> dholbach: Uploaded. Thanks.
[12:47] <Chandan> Gloubiboulga, How , dapper package needs higher version libraries or build-depends which are not in breezy .. right ..How do I compile then
[12:48] <thom> ajmitch: i'm tempted to suggest an ubuntu-se-server short-term pico distribution
[12:48] <Gloubiboulga> Chandan, that's why you need to create a dapper chroot on your breezy system
[12:49] <Chandan> Gloubiboulga, If I do that wont it affect my breezy systemm..Wont it upgrade my breezy system
[12:49] <Gloubiboulga> Chandan, no
[12:49] <ajmitch> thom: I'd hope it'd be quite short-lived only because we get stuff into edgy+1 asap
[12:50] <ajmitch> thom: most of the problem with selinux in ubuntu has been lack of interest & time
[12:50] <Chandan> Gloubiboulga, How do I create dapper chroot
[12:50] <thom> yup
[12:50] <Gloubiboulga> Chandan, have a look at the link I gave you, and at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebootstrapChroot
[12:51] <Gloubiboulga> everything is clearly explained
[12:51] <ajmitch> jsgotangco: kind of you, really
[12:51] <Chandan> Gloubiboulga, ok
[12:52] <thom> ajmitch: well, my point is that we do a pico distribution, integrate it and test it and turn it on by default during edgy+1, then we can merge that back to -server in edgy+2
[12:52] <jsgotangco> ajmitch: its surprising since selinux seems to solidify a distros position in the business environment
[12:53] <ajmitch> thom: sounds workable - I should be at MV to discuss it as well
[12:53] <ajmitch> jsgotangco: it's not shiny
[12:55] <thom> ace
[12:56] <bhale> jsgotangco: im not sure about that
[12:56] <bhale> redhat only gets away with turning it on for business because they have a braindead policy
[12:56] <ajmitch> hello bhale
[12:56] <jsgotangco> bhale: it the most general term, not so much thinking on the technical aspect that is
[12:56] <bhale> novell admits that its so hard to configure that it wasnt worth their time to fark with
[12:57] <bhale> jsgotangco: you're wrong :)
[12:57] <jsgotangco> heh
[12:57] <thom> bhale: but how much of that is justification for novell not using it, and how much is truth
[12:58] <bhale> thom: its 100% truth
[12:58] <bhale> but
[12:58] <bhale> they could have built a learning mode (some work already there) on top of selinux instead of starting over
[12:58] <thom> nod
[12:58] <thom> it seems like targetted is actually a pretty good compromise
[12:59] <bhale> I agree
[12:59] <bhale> same for selective deployment of SSP and PIE
[12:59] <bhale> NX
[01:00] <thom> yup
[01:00] <bhale> I used to be further in the all or nothing camp
[01:00] <thom> there's a lot than can be done incrementally
[01:00] <bhale> doesnt work in the real world
[01:00] <thom> although it seems like SSP has worked out pretty well in edgy thusfar
[01:00] <bhale> yeah, good thing
[01:00] <bhale> I was worried about it
[01:01] <bhale> breaking all over causing us to drop it across the board
[01:01] <thom> yeah
[01:01] <StevenK> Pretty much everything is built with SSP in Edgy, right?
[01:01] <thom> seems like PIE is pretty sane too, so it might be worth pushing that soon
[01:01] <thom> StevenK: pretty much
[01:01] <bhale> PIE is tough
[01:02] <ajmitch> StevenK: pretty much anything uploaded since it was turned on in june/july
[01:02] <bhale> there is alot of ASM out there that uses the same register as PIE
[01:02] <bhale> ASM is hard to fix
[01:02] <bhale> %ebx register
[01:06] <ajmitch> right, time for me to sleep
[01:07] <ajmitch> night all
[01:35] <slomo> bhale: with PIE one register is reserved all the time for PIE? sounds like this could result in a bad performance loss on x86 where registers are rare anyway...
[01:42] <thom> bhale: ebx is also what PIC uses though, right? so i'd think that many things that are PIC safe are PIE safe
[01:47] <Chandan> imbrandon, hi
[01:47] <thom> (cos you can just do the copy&restore trick)
[01:47] <Chandan> imbrandon, Yesterday I was discussing about package compilation and adding our own version to that
[01:50] <Chandan> Fujitsu, I have a doubt on adding our own version for the package .. Which I was discuswsing yesterday
[01:50] <Fujitsu> -sigh-
[01:50] <Fujitsu> What about it, Chandan?
[01:50] <Chandan> Fujitsu, Ubuntu will be syncing with debian , right
[01:50] <Fujitsu> Yes.
[01:51] <Chandan> Suppose Debian has libc6-2.3.6-1 package
[01:51] <Chandan> and you are taking that and recompiling and making it ubuntu version by adding libc6-2.3.6-1ubuntu1
[01:51] <Fujitsu> libc_2.3.6-1ubuntu1, it'd be, but yes.
[01:52] <Chandan> then if I see"apt-cache redepends libc6" , it shows whole list of pacakges which are dendependent on libc6
[01:52] <Fujitsu> Yes...
[01:52] <azeem> Chandan: that is expected
[01:53] <Chandan> So , If I try to install any of those packages over libc6-2.3.6-1ubuntu1, will that package installs properly
[01:53] <Chandan> Fujitsu, as the other packages needs libc6 version of 2.3.6-1 , which is debian version
[01:54] <Fujitsu> Do they explicitly depend on 2.3.6-1?
[01:54] <Chandan> Fujitsu, if it is >= it is installing , some packages which need exact match 2.3.6-1 , they are not installing
[01:54] <Chandan> What do I do for this
[01:54] <Fujitsu> Then you need to rebuild the packages that require exactly 2.3.6-1
[01:54] <Fujitsu> I believe we've been through this before, multiple times.
[01:55] <Chandan> How do I finf the pacakges which need exact match from that whole list of pacakges
[01:55] <azeem> Chandan: grep-dctrl
[01:56] <Chandan> azeem, what this command will do, just only this command or any other options I need to give
[01:56] <azeem> Chandan: read the documentation for it
[01:56] <thom> Chandan: read the friend manpage, i suggest
[01:56] <thom> friendly
[01:56] <Chandan> azeem, ok
[01:56] <Chandan> thom, ok
[01:59] <Chandan> azeem, How do I do this recursevely ..May be gdm package needs libc6 exact match .. the other package needs gdm exact match ..
[02:00] <Chandan> azeem, i want to create a ubuntu like repository for my project ,as I am working on buidling a distro ..
[02:00] <azeem> Chandan: just rebuild all
[02:00] <azeem> those are binary dependencies, not source ones
[02:00] <Chandan> azeem, I have edited some packages and added xbossY same as ubuntu ..But I am facing that exact match problem
[02:01] <Chandan> azeem, Then what about source pacakge dependencies
[02:01] <azeem> what about them?
[02:01] <Chandan> azeem, what rebuild all will do
[02:01] <azeem> it will make sure your package dependencies are right
[02:01] <Chandan> azeem, ok
[02:03] <Chandan> azeem, I dont have rebuild command in my system ..Which package do I need to install
[02:04] <azeem> there is no package
[02:05] <azeem> Chandan: you can (i) read up on how Debian autobuilders work (I won't help you, this is quite difficult), (ii) pay somebody to do it for yuo (iii) find a custom solution yourself
[02:05] <Chandan> azeem, Then rebuild all means what , I need to rebuild all the packages again
[02:06] <Chandan> azeem, ok
[02:06] <azeem> or you can forget about recursively and see what breaks, and then rebuild those specifically
[02:30] <bhale> thom: thats true
[02:30] <bhale> thom: (pie implies pic iirc)
[02:30] <bhale> slomo: its like 10% i think
[02:31] <bhale> slomo: well, i dont know about raw asm
[02:31] <bhale> thom: just that pie applies to executables, not shared objects.. or more executables are pic shared objects
[02:32] <slomo> bhale: 10% ist really much...
[02:33] <bhale> ..from excel
[02:33] <bhale> awk to the rescue
[02:33] <bhale> our database pads ip addresses with zeros
[02:34] <bhale> 010.009.074.109
[02:34] <bhale> awesome.
[02:45] <thom> kwality
[02:46] <thom> (yes, PIE implies PIC)
[02:46] <thom> mmm, pie
[02:56] <bhale> "you have a problem, so you decide to use regex. now you have two problems"
[02:56] <bhale> jwz
[02:57] <ogra> haha
[02:57] <ogra> he's right :)
[02:59] <thom> like most things jwz says, he's somewhat right
[03:02] <ogra> yeah
[03:41] <bddebian> Heya gang
[03:44] <LaserJock> hi bddebian
[03:46] <bddebian> Hi LaserJock
[04:14] <LaserJock> hmm, adept has a funny menu entry
[04:14] <LaserJock> "Adept Manager Manage Packages"
[05:02] <bhale> haha feisty
[05:02] <bhale> you saw it here first folks
[05:03] <LaserJock> no I didn't
[05:03] <LaserJock> :p
[05:03] <bhale> whats the animal?
[05:03] <LaserJock> I don't know that
[05:03] <bhale> lame
[05:05] <LaserJock> it's got to be feisty ferret :-)
[05:06] <zul> hmm?
[05:07] <Adri2000> edgy+1 = feisty ?
[05:07] <LaserJock> feisty finch?
[05:08] <LaserJock> in a not-yet-official way
[05:08] <Adri2000> https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/feature-cycle
[05:08] <zul> fiesty fox
[05:08] <Adri2000> "This discussion will describe how feature planning in Ubuntu should happen for Feisty+1"
[05:09] <LaserJock> exactly
[05:09] <bhale> feisty fox vs the ice weasel
[05:09] <sivang> re
[05:09] <sivang> hehe
[05:10] <sivang> so it's known now that it's fesity?
[05:10] <lloydinho> heh. Looks like sabdfl managed to leak this himself.. :)
[05:10] <Adri2000> now I understand "Feisty", I read that earlier and I was not sure it was edgy+1 :)
[05:18] <illovae> yo
[05:18] <highvoltage> yo illo
[05:37] <joejaxx> highvoltage: hello
[05:37] <thom> ajmitch: so relabelling on unstable under vmware with the targeted policy takes on the order of seconds
[05:38] <joejaxx> ajmitch: if i wanted to create a user that is just like the initial user after native install in ubuntu i can just to adduser --system --group joejaxx right?
[05:38] <joejaxx> do*
[05:39] <joejaxx> ajmitch: and it whould be setup the same way?
[05:39] <LaserJock> I don't know that you want --system
[05:39] <LaserJock> for a real user
[05:40] <joejaxx> LaserJock: so minus the system rather
[05:40] <joejaxx> i whould have to do adduser --group joejaxx
[05:40] <joejaxx> and add myself to the sudoerfile?
[05:41] <LaserJock> no, I think that should be handled via groups
[05:42] <LaserJock> i.e. the adm group
[05:42] <joejaxx> no i have to add the joejaxx group to the adm group?
[05:43] <LaserJock> you need to add the joejaxx user to the adm group
[05:43] <LaserJock> I believe
[05:43] <joejaxx> oh ok
[05:44] <highvoltage> hi joejaxx
[05:44] <joejaxx> LaserJock: i am just wondering why is there a joejaxx group when there is no one in it?
[05:44] <joejaxx> highvoltage: hello
[05:45] <LaserJock> joejaxx: joejaxx isn't in it?
[05:45] <fowlduck> hey, anyone having ipw2100 issues with edgy since this morning?  or am I alone?
[05:46] <LaserJock> hmm, maybe that is implyed
[05:46] <joejaxx> LaserJock: no it is not
[05:46] <joejaxx> it is just an empty group "joejaxx" with a guid of 1000
[05:46] <LaserJock> right
[05:46] <LaserJock> same on my machine
[05:46] <joejaxx> LaserJock: so i have to do
[05:47] <joejaxx> adduser --group --ingroup admin joejaxx
[05:47] <joejaxx> to create the joejaxx group with nothing in it
[05:47] <joejaxx> and to add  myself to the admin group
[05:50] <LaserJock> I don't think you need to include the joejaxx group
[05:50] <joejaxx> ok
[05:50] <LaserJock> I think that is created automatically
[05:50] <joejaxx> ah alright
[05:51] <LaserJock> just try it out with a test user on your machine
[06:05] <Toadstool> good morning everybody
[07:02] <crimsun> cbx33: they're all useful (languages), but until Java becomes Free, then arguably less so than the others
[07:02] <cbx33> crimsun, so in your opinion....which would be most beneficial for me to learn "in-depth"
[07:03] <crimsun> cbx33: depends on the application, though one can't go wrong with either C++ or Python
[07:03] <crimsun> the language is secondary to the design
[07:03] <cbx33> ok.... /me vows to learn more python
[07:03] <cbx33> true
[07:03] <cbx33> can you code gnome applets in python?
[07:03] <thom> cbx33: yes
[07:03] <cbx33> nice
[07:04] <thom> learn c rather than c++, corrupt yourself later
[07:04] <cbx33> then I'll carry on with python
[07:04] <cbx33> for the meanwhile
[07:04] <Toadstool> uhuh, my piupart thing all over Universe is currently testing dblatex... 13286 to go after this one :/
[07:05] <Toadstool> +packages
[07:08] <LaserJock> isn't l-r-m supposed to bring in the ATI driver?
[07:11] <crimsun> the kernel module, yes.
[07:12] <LaserJock> my l-r-m only deps on nvidia stuff
[07:14] <crimsun> LaserJock: I take it you've not looked at its package listing?
[07:14] <LaserJock> package listing?
[07:14] <crimsun> for l-r-m-$(uname -r)
[07:16] <LaserJock> I did a apt-cache show linux-restricted-modules-2.6.17-10-generic
[07:16] <LaserJock> and all I see is nvidia stuff
[07:16] <crimsun> red herring.
[07:16] <crimsun> crimsun@adhd:~$ dpkg-deb -c linux-restricted-modules-2.6.17-10-generic_2.6.17.5-10_i386.deb|grep fglrx|wc -l
[07:16] <crimsun> 4
[07:17] <crimsun> always look at the deb itself.
[07:17] <LaserJock> ok, but the question still stands
[07:17] <LaserJock> I don't know how I can tell if I have the ATI driver installed
[07:17] <crimsun> /which/ driver? kernel? X?
[07:18] <crimsun> if you have l-r-m-$(uname -r) installed, then you have the former
[07:18] <LaserJock> heck if I know? :-)
[07:18] <LaserJock> I just want to have the binary ATI driver so I can get my X working right
[07:18] <LaserJock> although it still might not work
[07:19] <crimsun> you need xorg-driver-fglrx and fglrx-control in addition
[07:19] <aboe> LaserJock, open up a gnome-terminal and type in the following : glxinfo
[07:20] <LaserJock> does nvidia need that too?
[07:20] <crimsun> nvidia doesn't need anything related to ATI.
[07:20] <LaserJock> no, but I mean I thought with nvidia all you had to do was install l-r-m and you were good to go
[07:21] <crimsun> you need nvidia-glx{,-legacy}
[07:21] <crimsun> l-r-m comes by default.
[07:21] <aboe> sadly you also need to change you're xorg.conf LaserJock to load up a different driver
[07:21] <LaserJock> I know aboe
[07:21] <LaserJock> I was just confused about the dependency situation
[07:22] <crimsun> still unclear? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BinaryDriverHowto
[07:22] <LaserJock> well, if konqi worked I'd try it :-)
[07:22] <crimsun> use w3m then.
[07:22] <LaserJock> I was reading the info
[07:22] <pirast> ajmitch, what's about gnomesword? :-P
[07:22] <LaserJock> I just wasn't sure if it was right
[07:22] <herzi> ajmitch: ping
[07:23] <LaserJock> crimsun: sweet, I didn't know w3m was installed by default
[07:24] <aboe> me neither...hehehe
[07:24] <aboe> good to know if I lose X
[07:25] <LaserJock> darn, I don't even know what ATI card this thing has. I think maybe ATI doesn't have a driver for it :(
[07:25] <crimsun> lspci -v should tell you
[07:26] <LaserJock> says unknown device
[07:26] <LaserJock> I'll blame apple
[07:26] <zul> get a nice x86 that should solve the problem
[07:26] <LaserJock> it is
[07:26] <LaserJock> that's the problem
[07:27] <crimsun> which model?
[07:27] <LaserJock> it's a 17" intel iMac
[07:27] <LaserJock> I think it's something like a x1600
[07:28] <Toadstool> LaserJock: did you try to update-pciids to get lspci a little more verbose about your ATI card?
[07:28] <LaserJock> no
[07:29] <LaserJock> oh, that worked
[07:29] <Toadstool> :)
[07:29] <LaserJock> ATI Technologies Inc M56P [Radeon Mobility X1600] 
[07:29] <LaserJock> thanks Toadstool
[07:29] <Toadstool> np
[07:30] <hub> so proprietary insecure driver
[07:30] <hub> ...
[07:30] <LaserJock> hub: do you know that?
[07:31] <thom> LaserJock: if you can't positively assert it's secure, then it's insecure
[07:31] <hub> given that you can't review the code
[07:31] <LaserJock> I'm not questioning if it's secure or not
[07:31] <thom> and because it's proprietary, then you can't assert it's secure
[07:31] <hub> and that it runs as r00t
[07:31] <LaserJock> I'm questioning wheither ATI even has a linux driver for it or not
[07:31] <LaserJock> when I tried the first time they didn't
[07:31] <hub> LaserJock: it came 6 month after the card got released
[07:31] <hub> so I don't call that support
[07:31] <hub> but it is in there now
[07:32] <LaserJock> ok cool
[07:32] <hub> that does not mean it will work on a Mac
[07:32] <hub> becaues ATI does not support that either
[07:32] <hub> (even Intel)
[07:33] <LaserJock> what?
[07:33] <LaserJock> I thought you said that they had a linux driver for it?
[07:33] <LaserJock> now I'm confused
[07:33] <hub> for regular PCs
[07:33] <hub> not for ICBM
[07:33] <hub> but it should work on ICBM with Linux
[07:33] <LaserJock> well, I'll just try it and see
[07:34] <hub> just a proof that mac are not suited for runing Linux
[07:34] <LaserJock> heh
[07:34] <LaserJock> well, I guess I better boot back into OS X then
[07:34] <hub> or buy a real PC
[07:34] <LaserJock> it's not mine
[07:34] <LaserJock> I don't get to decide
[07:35] <LaserJock> at least maybe I can get Linux on the thing
[07:35] <LaserJock> and show my boss that Linux isn't crap
[07:37] <LaserJock> it's a really nice machine too
[07:37] <LaserJock> it sure beats my other PC
[07:37] <LaserJock> so I'd rather develop on this
[07:47] <LaserJock> ok, that seemed to work
[07:48] <LaserJock> and konqueror works
[07:48] <LaserJock> wahoo
[07:51] <thom> _DvP_: please disable public away
[08:08] <shawarma> Hmm... I'd like to calculate the total size of ubuntu-desktop and all its dependencies.. Any bright ideas?
[08:55] <mc44> do you need permission from manufacturers to redistribute drivers, i.e. could closed source wireless drivers for use with ndiswrapper be distributed by Ubuntu? would you have to get permission from each manufacturer?
[08:57] <thom> you would need permission from the IP owner of the firmware or driver
[08:58] <mc44> thom: hmm I guess that makes my cunning plane for wireless working out of the box a tad unfeasible :-/
[08:58] <mc44> *plan
[08:59] <thom> mc44: heh, you're not the first to suggest it :-)
[08:59] <mc44> thom: I guess we'd get open source drivers before getting permission to rdistribute from everyone :)
[09:02] <thom> most likely
[09:02] <thom> ivoks: hey, wanna import the new ion3? ;-)
[09:05] <ivoks> heh
[09:05] <ivoks> i'm trying to get my laptop work :)
[09:06] <ivoks> thom: anyway... it's too late for edgy :)
[09:07] <thom> pfft
[09:07] <thom> coward :-)
[09:07] <ivoks> well, there a role for everyone :)
[09:08] <ivoks> 's
[09:10] <bhale> bug 59325
[09:10] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 59325 in muine "Crashes due to API change in Glade [edgy] " [Undecided,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/59325
[09:13] <mc44>  I wonder if a program would be useful that runs ndiswrapper's graphical frontend if a pci-id of a card know to work with ndiswrapper is found, and gives helpful instructions like prompting for the driver cd and auto sets up the driver if found, or suggests a weblink
[09:13] <superm1> ndisgtk?
[09:13] <superm1> like modifying that?
[09:14] <mc44> yeah, with actual hardware detection to find out the chip and tell you what driver you need
[09:14] <superm1> i personally think that'd be very useful
[09:14] <superm1> you considered writing a spec for it for edgy+1?
[09:15] <mc44> superm1: yeah, well I was consdering a cunning spec with drivers on the CD but obviously thats impractical, so I'm trying to think of a solution better than our current one
[09:16] <superm1> considering the shere volume of drivers out there you'd need approval to distribute, i agree and dont think on a CD would be practical.  a hal rule for wireless devices to run something similar to ndisgtk
[09:16] <superm1> that detects the manufacturer
[09:16] <superm1> and either recommends the website to get the driver or asks you to put in the cd you got with it
[09:16] <mc44> right
[09:18] <superm1> well considering ndisgtk is a good start - do you know if its an ubuntu started app or if we are pulling it from somewhere upstream?  might be a good idea to talk to whoever wrote it
[09:18] <superm1> and see what they have on their plate and would be willing to help
[09:19] <superm1> Sam Pohlenz <retrix@internode.on.net> is the maintainer sitting on it
[09:19] <mc44> I think its from ndiswrapper people, but i'll check
[09:19] <superm1> and we didn't pull from debian based on that version number
[09:19] <superm1> 0.6-0ubuntu1
[09:19] <shawarma> superm1: It was a SoC project last year.
[09:20] <shawarma> superm1: I think ogra mentored it.
[09:20] <superm1> ah
[09:21] <superm1> shawarma, is Sam the one that wrote it then?
[09:21] <superm1> for SoC
[09:25] <shawarma> superm1: no idea
[09:25] <sivang> hi
[09:25] <shawarma> superm1: I just remember we talked about it in Paris.
[09:25] <shawarma> hi, sivang!
[09:26] <superm1> well mc44, i'd say you should throw a spec together and prod someone who is going to google campus next month to talk about it
[09:26] <sivang> hey shawarma , how's it going?
[09:26] <superm1> sounds like a great idea
[09:26] <mc44> superm1: will do :)
[09:26] <mc44> superm1: although convincing someone to talk about it might be more tricky :)
[09:27] <superm1> hehe
[09:27] <superm1> well if i was going i would, but you know how that goes ;)
[09:27] <shawarma> sivang: I'm fine. I'm just getting ready to go on a field trip with a bunch of people from university. It's going to be great.
[09:28] <shawarma> sivang: How about you?
[09:34] <superm1> mc44, when you get the spec together, you can CC me on it, and i'll be another set of eyes to look it over if you want
[09:36] <sivang> shawarma: felt a bit exhusted, took a pill, went to sleep, woke up, trying to see what stuff I can do next :)
[09:41] <mc44> superm1: sure, thanks
[09:43] <ajmitch> morning all
[09:43] <sivang> morning ajmitch
[09:45] <Toadstool> hey ajmitch
[09:45] <zul> morning
[10:06] <Kyral> whee published my first RubyGem
[10:09] <LaserJock> cool
[10:09] <LaserJock> what is it for?
[10:09] <Kyral> My little system shell I have been writing in Ruby
[10:09] <Kyral> I registered the project to RubyForge a while ago, but only now got around to learning how to make Gems
[10:10] <LaserJock> I've been trying to learn C++
[10:10] <Kyral> I know it
[10:10] <Kyral> I don't prefer it :P
[10:10] <slomo> LaserJock: better learn a good language instead of c++ ;)
[10:10] <LaserJock> it seems kinda cool, but it makes me love Python more :-)
[10:11] <Kyral> Granted you can do anything in C
[10:11] <LaserJock> slomo: well, it's not exactly of my choosing. I'm trying to help out with a project that is written in C++
[10:11] <LaserJock> gnome chemistry utils
[10:11] <slomo> ok :)
[10:12] <LaserJock> trust me, I avoided it as long as I could :-)
[10:12] <Kyral> And I just find Ruby sexy
[10:12] <LaserJock> man oh man this iMac is fast
[10:12] <LaserJock> for me anyway
[10:14] <imbrandon> moins all
[10:15] <LaserJock> imbrandon!
[10:16] <ajmitch> hey imbrandon
[10:17] <imbrandon> LaserJock, get a new iMac ?
[10:17] <imbrandon> at home ?
[10:17] <LaserJock> no, my work iMac
[10:17] <LaserJock> last night I just decided "The heck with it, I'm installing edgy"
[10:18] <LaserJock> got it all installed last night
[10:18] <LaserJock> got ATI done this morning
[10:18] <LaserJock> creating an edgy pbuilder at the moment
[10:19] <imbrandon> nice
[10:19] <zul> oh man fiesty fawn?!
[10:19] <LaserJock> what?
[10:19] <LaserJock> no way
[10:19] <zul> yeah it was announced on -devel
[10:20] <ajmitch> people are surprised?
[10:21] <ajmitch> it's been leaked so often
[10:21] <sivang> indeed.
[10:21] <LaserJock> but Fawn?
[10:21] <sivang> even on specification pages
[10:21] <LaserJock> I knew Fiesty
[10:21] <LaserJock> but Fawn is just silly :-)
[10:21] <superm1> you know if they were really planning this counting up the letters thing, why didn't we have corendal cat or something before dapper drake
[10:22] <imbrandon> it wasent planned till dapper was released to do it that way
[10:22] <zul> heh..i have images of bambie's mother in my head now
[10:22] <imbrandon> zul, hahah
[10:22] <superm1> haha
[10:23] <ajmitch> of course *everyone* will misspell it
[10:23] <sivang> ah right, so there's an announcement out
[10:24] <hmrocha> hello, i'd like some help with a livecd i'm creating
[10:24] <ajmitch> NB: it's feisty, not fiesty :)
[10:24] <hmrocha> i don't know if this is the apropriate channel
[10:24] <hmrocha> how can i change the layout of the keyboard for the livecd gnome session?
[10:25] <ajmitch> hmrocha: this channel mainly deals with universe, and -devel is flat out with release preparation
[10:25] <hmrocha> ajmitch: ok, i'll try #ubuntu then
[10:25] <hmrocha> i have no idea how to change xorg.conf on the livecd :(
[10:25] <hmrocha> it always gets replaced on boot
[10:29] <superm1> is there any nice way to handle a package that should be taking source from one archive and binary data from another?  Is it just more simplistic to create two different deb packages, one for all the data using the extracted binary package, and then one for building the source, and then just have the source depend on the data?
[10:29] <ajmitch> superm1: better to build 2 separate packages
[10:29] <superm1> okay thats what I was thinking.
[10:31] <superm1> now the binary data package, if its not in tar.gz or tar.bz2, buts its a zip.  do I extract the zip and recompress as a .orig.tar.gz then?
[10:35] <ajmitch> that's one way of doing it (the easiest)
[10:35] <LaserJock> you can, you could also tar up a dir that just has the .zip in it
[10:35] <ajmitch> or that way :)
[10:35] <superm1> and then unzip during the rules run
[10:35] <LaserJock> and unzip it when you need it
[10:35] <superm1> ok
[10:35] <LaserJock> sometimes it's more logical to do it that way
[10:36] <LaserJock> when it's something like a zip that get's unziped to / or something
[10:36] <superm1> but then it adds unzip to build deps :)
[10:36] <ajmitch> exactly
[10:36] <LaserJock> yep
[10:36] <ajmitch> which is why I didn't feel like suggesting it
[10:36] <ajmitch> more manual hacking
[10:36] <LaserJock> yeah
[10:37] <LaserJock> I've done packages though where it's data that is meant to be unziped in /
[10:37] <LaserJock> and there it's easier to unzip it into debain/<packagename>/
[10:37] <superm1> right
[10:38] <superm1> i'll take a look at the archive later on when i get home tonight then
[10:38] <superm1> and see what it looks like inside
[10:48] <mc44> superm1: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EasyWirelessDrivers , please feel free to make it suck less.
[10:49] <mc44> or anyone else, please point out the gaping idiotic flaws in it
[10:49] <superm1> lets see ...
[11:03] <superm1> mc44, I changed the spec around and fixed several typos.  I don't think you should include the information about trying to get manufacturers to distribute binary drivers on a CD
[11:04] <superm1> thats a much larger task then you would really want to uptake in a spec like this
[11:04] <mc44> superm1: Yes, I agree
[11:04] <superm1> I left it in in the case you really want to try, but i'm pretty sure the spec will be shot down at least once on those grounds
[11:05] <mc44> superm1: no, I think it should be a seperate spec
[11:05] <mc44> superm1: thanks alot!
[11:05] <superm1> not a problem :)
[11:05] <superm1> CC me on the LP spec when you get that made too
[11:06] <superm1> i'd love to follow this, and help put it together if its approved
[11:06] <mc44> great
[11:12] <cbx33> ajmitch, thanks for the help earlier
[11:12] <cbx33> did we get any feedback on that f-spot bug?
[11:14] <mc44> superm1: I was planning on mailing ubuntu-devel requesting comments, and hopefully convince someone to talk about it at UDS :)
[11:15] <superm1> good.  just be sure to scrub that contacting manufacturers part out first
[11:15] <ajmitch> cbx33: that it wasn't reproduced, so may be issues outside of f-spot
[11:15] <superm1> and btw.  nice ninja turtles theme to the people roles
[11:16] <mc44> superm1: ;) yes I already did take that out
[11:17] <mc44> superm1: now if only I could stop launchpad sucking so I could create a spec... :)
[11:18] <superm1> hehe
[11:21] <ajmitch> superm1: almost as annoying as the countless people writing about 'drapper drake'
[11:22] <mc44> FeistyFeiwn
[11:22] <superm1> at least in this case, some people have the defense that english has lots of silly rules and its "not their primary language"
[11:22] <superm1> but drapper drake is just inexcusable
[11:24] <ajmitch> yes
[11:24] <ajmitch> especially when you have words like 'caffeine' that don't follow the usual rules
[11:24] <superm1> i have to admit I didn't know all of the exceptions: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_before_e_except_after_c
[11:25] <ajmitch> well
[11:25] <ajmitch> scratch that
[11:25] <ajmitch> there are other exceptions :)
[11:25] <ajmitch> yay for wikipedia
[11:26] <ajmitch> I see caffeine in the list
[11:26] <superm1> hehe.  i read the other day there is a dump avail for the wikipedia mysql database.  its 10 gigs. and portable to the larger ipod varieties.  i almost wish i had a large ipod just to say that i have wikipedia on my ipod
[11:26] <imbrandon> i for one welcome our new deer overlords ....
[11:26] <ajmitch> imbrandon: stop that
[11:31] <sivang> heh
[11:31] <mc44> superm1: https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/easy-wireless-drivers, I took the liberty of subscribing you
[11:32] <superm1> great thanks
[11:33] <superm1> oh and there is a button to propose for UDS agenda. very easy
[11:33] <ajmitch> it helps if people who care about it are going to be there to discuss it
[11:33] <superm1> sigh.....https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/feisty-telepathy
[11:33] <superm1> and it begins
[11:34] <ajmitch> sigh?
[11:34] <ajmitch> that's sabdfl registering specs
[11:34] <superm1> oh nvm.
[11:35] <superm1> i was reading something wrong
[11:39] <mc44> superm1: I plan to do that by including this bit of bribery in my email to -devel: "Anyone taking up this request will receive a genuine pony (or teenage ninja turtle) of their choice."
[11:39] <ajmitch> mc44: amazing
[11:39] <mc44> can't fail :)
[11:39] <superm1> well i dont know if pony is appropriate though, considering we are now deer worshipers
[11:39] <superm1> maybe you should provide venison or something.
[11:40] <mc44> good point ;) [there goes another kitten] 
[11:51] <superm1> does anyone know where xchat pulls its default web browser setting for links?  It kept opening them in opera and frustrating me so I removed opera.  Now its opening them in w3m.
[11:52] <mc44> go into firefox settings and click the default browser thing, that fixed it for me
[11:53] <superm1> just tried that.  still opening in w3m for some reason.
[11:53] <superm1> unless i gotta quit xchat and come back in.
[11:54] <superm1> hmm nope.