[12:15] <Burgwork> stelis: oh, I was looking for right now. I am going to be working on them tonight, I hope
[12:15] <pygi> LaserJock: 'cause we won't be able to discuss them at person in UDS? :P
[12:16] <LaserJock> pygi: that's ok, we can still do them :-)
[12:16] <LaserJock> there were a lot of edgy specs that didn't get discussed at Paris
[12:17] <pygi> LaserJock: highly unlikely, but possible, yes
[12:20] <cbx33> I'm sure we'll get all that we need done
[12:21] <pygi> lucky you cbx33 :)
[12:21] <cbx33> eh?
[12:21] <cbx33> I mean everybody "we" as in the comminuty
[12:21] <pygi> for being so optimistic ;P
[12:21] <pygi> I know, I understand :P
[12:21] <LaserJock> we do what we can, same as always
[12:21] <cbx33> pygi, it's be fine
[12:21] <cbx33> trust me
[12:22] <cbx33> ogra and LaserJock  and pips1 will be there for us
[12:22] <cbx33> they'll get everything done that's needed
[12:23] <LaserJock> heh
[12:23] <pygi> cbx33: you don't get the point :P
[12:23] <pygi> But nevermind
[12:24] <LaserJock> pygi: what is your point? specs are specs
[12:24] <cbx33> sorry for being thick - just the way I am I guess
[12:24] <cbx33> naieve
[12:24] <LaserJock> we get done what we can
[12:24] <pygi> LaserJock: yes, but some require extensive discussion
[12:25] <cbx33> true, but if people cannot be there, and other people want to discuss there are two options....
[12:25] <LaserJock> sure, and that can be done outside of just the UDS
[12:25] <cbx33> discuss outside of MV or the spec cannot be discussed well enough
[12:25] <cbx33> and doesn't get in....
[12:25] <cbx33> unfortunately sometimes the latter will happen
[12:26] <cbx33> hopefully the former will happen
[12:26] <pygi> ah, anyway, gotta try to sleep altought I can't
[12:27] <pygi> uni in the morning again
[02:18] <^Ghost2U> something happened to my dapper ltsp... client cannot locate dhcp server anymore
[02:20] <Burgwork> ^Ghost2U: try restarting your dhcp server
[02:20] <Burgwork> try connecting a fat client, set a static ip and then ping the server
[02:20] <Burgwork> check all the cables
[02:20] <^Ghost2U> config: 2pcs .. 1) dapper install, 2) 2x diskless pc
[02:21] <^Ghost2U> Bugwork, I had this thing working b4 I left 4 work.... 
[02:21] <^Ghost2U> :(
[02:22] <^Ghost2U> i had some changes due to my ip addresses, but i had those fixed
[02:23] <^Ghost2U> when i got back.. client searching for dhcp again
[02:24] <Burgwork> fun
[02:24] <^Ghost2U> yep
[02:24] <^Ghost2U> like an ice-pick in yer ear
[02:25] <^Ghost2U> :P
[02:26] <^Ghost2U> I dont get it
[02:30] <Burgwork> I am having fun with dns
[02:41] <^Ghost2U> good luck
[02:49] <Burgwork> whiprush: massive paste of balk talk
[02:50] <Magnum_opus> I found a small writing error in the documentation Cookbook
[02:51] <ajmitch> Burgwork: paste for me too
[02:52] <Magnum_opus> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/HowToCookEdubuntu/Chapters
[02:52] <Magnum_opus> down at the second line from the bottom it says "Contribute to Ubuntu"  -  instead of Edubuntu
[03:25] <^Ghost2U> 15KB on a 512Kb connection :(
[04:20] <nixternal> boo
[08:41] <nixternal> who is up this late doing lp admin stuff ;)
[09:30] <RichEd> hi all
[09:32] <RichEd> Where can I find a simple list that I can pass on to a user, which lists applications installed by default, applications in main, universe and multiverse ... with an application name and description (and the differences (if any) between Edubuntu and Ubuntu and Kubuntu (and Xubuntu)).
[09:39] <RichEd> hi pete
[09:40] <cbx33> hey Rich
[09:43] <juliux> ogra, http://www.linuxworldexpo.de/adetail.php?ID=123&Aussteller_ID=1194 ;)
[09:44] <ogra> juliux, cool !
[09:44] <cbx33> hey ogra were those images ok?
[09:44] <juliux> ogra, we have two demopoints at the linuxworldexpo one for edubuntu and one for ubuntu
[09:44] <ogra> cbx33, dunno, i'm busy with CD tests :)
[09:45] <cbx33> ok
[09:45] <cbx33> np
[09:45] <ogra> cbx33, the images are post RC stuff, its just ugly currently but does no harm, i wont do a complete test run for a single usplash image
[09:46] <ogra> (building a new iso means new testing)
[09:46] <cbx33> yeh ok dude
[09:57] <RichEd> Can we start with: Where can I find a list of what applications will be on my menu the moment I finish my Edubuntu install ?
[09:59] <cbx33> RichEd: there were lots of lists put up on the wiki
[09:59] <cbx33> but I fear they are all out of date now
[09:59] <cbx33> ogra: is there a way to pull out which packages are applications and which are libraries
[10:01] <ogra> i think so, but dont ask me for one :)
[10:01] <cbx33> ok
[10:01] <ogra> RichEd, the *buntu-desktop package depends on all installed desktop apps
[10:02] <cbx33> grr.... add/remove applications doesn't use the proxy :(
[10:03] <ogra> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/SeedManagement has some examples of seed files through which we define whats in main or in one of the metapackages (i.e. -desktop)
[10:03] <RichEd> I've jsut got this from #ubuntu: http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/components
[10:03] <RichEd> *just ...
[10:03] <RichEd> That's a good conceptual start to explain to a user.
[10:03] <stgraber> apt-cache show edubuntu-desktop | grep Depends | sed "s/, /\n/g" | grep -v "lib"
[10:04] <stgraber> should give all the non-lib package that are in edubuntu-desktop depends
[10:04] <RichEd> ogra: RichEd, the *buntu-desktop package depends on all installed desktop apps <- not sure what you mean by this in the context of my question ... let me rephrase it now:
[10:05] <ogra> heh, there should be no library dependencies in -desktop :)
[10:05] <RichEd> I'd like to be able to make a simple bullet list of: "When you have finished your Edyubuntu install and eject the CD, you will immediately have the following applications on your desktop menu ready for your kdis to use".
[10:06] <RichEd> *Edubuntu *kids
[10:06] <ogra> RichEd, exactly ... and on a tech level the edubuntu-desktop package defines whats installed on your desktop
[10:07] <ogra> it always depends on all graphical apps you can access through the menu ...
[10:07] <ogra> so if you look at its package dependencies, you have the list you want :)
[10:08] <cbx33> RichEd: wnat me to get you that list?
[10:09] <ogra> cbx33, bote that since edgy also the recommends count ...
[10:09] <ogra> *note
[10:09] <cbx33> argh! right ok
[10:09] <RichEd> cbx33: give a man a fish ... teach a man to fish ... explain how to get the list, and I will be able to do it next time myself please.
[10:09] <cbx33> I'll go get the list
[10:09] <cbx33> np...
[10:10] <cbx33> ogra: there doesn;t seem to be a recommends for it?
[10:10] <RichEd> thanks for the advice ogra :) feeling and acting like a naieve end-user today
[10:10] <cbx33> RichEd: to get the list I open up a terminal
[10:11] <cbx33> apt-cache show edubuntu-desktop
[10:11] <cbx33> ogra: only problem is these are pacakge names
[10:11] <ogra>  apt-cache depends edubuntu-desktop
[10:11] <ogra> ;)
[10:11] <cbx33> ahh
[10:11] <ogra> cbx33, right ... 
[10:12] <cbx33> hmmm...
[10:12] <ogra> someone needs to translate the package names into apps i guess
[10:12] <cbx33> yup
[10:12] <cbx33> unless...
[10:12] <RichEd> and other problem is that the list includes other apps I have chosen to install from Add/Remove or Synaptic
[10:12] <cbx33> argh we should have a field for application name
[10:12] <cbx33> RichEd: no it shouldn't
[10:13] <cbx33> it should just be the dependencies of the edubuntu-desktop pacakge
[10:13] <RichEd> okay  ... I stand corrected and better informed
[10:14] <cbx33> ogra: were those images meant to be 640x480 or 640x400?
[10:14] <ogra> 640x400
[10:14] <cbx33> *gah*
[10:14] <ogra> scaled down 
[10:14] <cbx33> I'll redo them tonight
[10:14] <cbx33> mine are 640x480
[10:14] <ogra> it must be edited and designed in 640x480
[10:15] <cbx33> oh right
[10:15] <cbx33> i see
[10:15] <cbx33> and just wrongly scaled to 400
[10:15] <ogra> and then be scaled to 640x400
[10:15] <cbx33> np
[10:25] <cbx33> ogra: just out of curiosity, why do the version numbers of the edubuntu-desktop packages change so drastically?
[10:26] <ogra> they change with every upload
[10:26] <cbx33> ahhh
[10:27] <pips1> hi all
[10:29] <pips1> highvoltage: how's testing going?
[10:30] <highvoltage> pips1: busy installing one right now. It's not on a real machine, it's in a vmware session, but it has two network cards at least
[10:30] <pips1> oki
[11:12] <cbx33> ogra: I wrote a litte python prog that does it
[11:12] <cbx33> pulls out every short description from apt-cache show for each pacakge listed in aptcache depends edubutnu-desktop
[11:12] <ogra> heh great
[11:12] <cbx33> I'll post it up somewhere later;)
[11:13] <cbx33> ogra: do you always want test with the latest iso?
[11:13] <cbx33> I'm guessing so
[11:14] <ogra> with the one mentioned on the wiki
[11:14] <pips1> i looks as if there hasn't been a new iso since yesterday (?)
[11:14] <ogra> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Testing/Current
[11:14] <ogra> no, there hasnt
[11:14] <cbx33> ooh goody
[11:14] <cbx33> I still have 17.1
[11:16] <pips1> well, that's a slight problem with rsyncing, you never quite know what "version" you have, unless you burn it ...
[11:16] <happyed_> Hi Ogra! Back at work again... As I said yesterday I'm just upgrading a Edubuntu 6.06 incl. Ltsp to 6.10. I just replaced all dapper occurences in sources.list with edgy and made a dist-upgrade. It'll still take some 90mins or so... I'll keep you informed
[11:16] <cbx33> I don;t rsync
[11:16] <cbx33> a) can'tport blocked
[11:16] <pips1> of course, if you rsync and no data is transferred, you know that there wasn't a new version
[11:16] <cbx33> b) prefer downlaoding full iso
[11:17] <pips1> happyed_: great!
[11:18] <happyed_> Couldn't find that manual to do the upgrade with upgrade-manager. Is there a big difference if I just use dist-upgrade?
[11:21] <pips1> I don't think so, but I'm not sure. I don't know for sure what upgrade-manager does
[11:21] <cbx33> happyed_: 
[11:21] <cbx33> whoops
[11:21] <cbx33> how did you run it?
[11:22] <cbx33> update-manager -d -c 
[11:23] <cbx33> ogra: I don;t suppose you can spare time to chat scp spec can you?
[11:23] <ogra> not now
[11:23] <ogra> after the RC 
[11:23] <cbx33> will that be before sunday
[11:29] <cbx33> ogra: does the option to resize a partiion only present itself if there is sufficient space
[11:30] <ogra> either that or if it even *can'* resize something ...
[11:31] <cbx33> ok....
[11:31] <ogra> i.e. there needs to be a resizable partition
[11:31] <cbx33> ext3 is resizeablt
[11:36] <cbx33> ogra: just a query why don't we test LVM installs seperate to the normal install?
[11:36] <ogra> dunno, ask sfllaw, he makes the testplans
[11:43] <pips1> ogra: how are talks scheduled at UDS? are they schedule by "management" only (sabdfl, mhz, ..), based on the specs? or are there other non-specced things that can get scheduled too? 
[11:44] <pips1> s/talks/working groups/
[11:44] <ogra> there is a script in LP doing it
[11:44] <pips1> ohhh
[11:44] <ogra> based on proirity and status of a spec
[11:44] <cbx33> ogra do we just edit the student control spec that is there
[11:44] <cbx33> or create a new one
[11:45] <pips1> so if it's not specced and approved, no slots will be available for talks on other subjects?
[11:45] <pips1> RichEd: ping
[11:45] <RichEd> pong pips1 
[11:50] <pips1> hi RichEd
[11:50] <pips1> see ^^
[11:51] <pips1> I am wondering about MV...
[11:52] <RichEd> pips1: there are general meetings and smaller sessions being planned ... they are called BOF birds of a feather ... Jono is setting up his for community in LP and I will check where we fit in there. We can craete some of our own if we need to, but I have already been lobbying with Matt Nuzum for web discussions with him and Jono.
[11:53] <pips1> we need to schedule some talks, at least those that you mentioned in my application... it looks like the base scheduling of talks is done in an automated fashion, based on the specs that are in launchpad (those that are approved).
[11:53] <pips1> right
[11:55] <RichEd> So, by say Monday, we look to see what is missing from our needs, and we will create and invite our own sessions. You and I can spend some time chatting to Jono in IRC about this. Mostly, I expect we will be in the other meetings (like Jono and community) and we bring up our education Niche requirements or comments as part of those.
[11:55] <RichEd> So just to be clear, that's for Philipp & Richard for Web Sites and Community ^^^
[11:56] <RichEd> We'll then need to work with ogra for the edubuntu feature requirements, but I expect Oliver will drive that as he knows how it all works, and we'll be there to support him.
[11:56] <ogra> pips1, right, only things with entries in LP will be scheduled by the scheduler
[11:58] <cbx33> does the scheduler actually schedule meeting times?
[11:58] <cbx33> to make sure people can attend them?
[11:58] <RichEd> pips1: a lot of what you and I will discuss will be in smaller sessions, some sidebars, some over lunch & evening meals etc. were we grab the people we want and share a table.
[11:59] <ogra> yes, but you might end up in several BOfs and need to set priorities
[11:59] <pips1> RichEd: ok, it's a plan
[12:00] <pips1> RichEd: on the application, you put four discussion blocks/topics. I think they are all valid.
[12:00] <ogra> you will be scheduled for all discussions where you subscribed for on the spec manager ...
[12:00] <pips1> ogra: good to know
[12:01] <pips1> so RichEd: jono will have a 'Community' spec, and we simply subscribe to it, ok.
[12:01] <pips1> ogra: will have several specific "Edubuntu" specs and attend some "ubuntu" specs which are relevant to Edubuntu...
[12:02] <ogra> right
[12:03] <pips1> RichEd: the 'Web sites' discussion is only a small group, so we can probably handle that next to the "big official" schedule
[12:05] <pips1> RichEd: same for the 'Education sector' discussions, that is a small group and can be dealt with informally...
[12:09] <RichEd> agreed on all pips1
[12:44] <highvoltage> urgh. vmware doesn't want to work on edgy today :/
[12:44] <cbx33> highvoltage: how so?
[12:44] <cbx33> works ok here?
[12:45] <highvoltage> cbx33: message I get is: /usr/lib/vmware/bin/vmware: /usr/lib/vmware/lib/libpng12.so.0/libpng12.so.0: no version information available (required by /usr/lib/libcairo.so.2)
[12:45] <cbx33> yikes
[12:45] <cbx33> you fully updated?
[12:45] <cbx33> that looks like an edgy problem :S
[12:46] <cbx33> argh
[12:46] <cbx33> try reinstalling 
[12:46] <cbx33> always fixes problems I get
[12:46] <highvoltage> nope, updated to a 17 October edubuntu daily build. I'll have to dist-upgrade this afternoon again
[12:46] <highvoltage> our bandwidth bill is going to look shocking this month :)
[12:48] <lucasvo> cbx33: you know apple remote desktop?
[12:49] <lucasvo> just read through the scp spec
[12:50] <lucasvo> they have I nice feature: it has a list of clients which shows the IP, the logged in user and the programm which is in focus
[12:50] <lucasvo> that would be nice
[12:50] <lucasvo> that allows the teacher to see if everyone is using for example openoffice and not epiphany whithout having to start vnc
[12:52] <cbx33> lucasvo: well scp does most of that
[12:52] <cbx33> you can see which apps are running
[12:52] <cbx33> but not which is in focus unfortunately
[12:52] <highvoltage> that would be quite nice. i wonder how you'd implement something like that...
[12:53] <cbx33> funny yo ushould say that
[12:53] <cbx33> :p
[12:53] <cbx33> I thought there maybe some decent additions we could make to scp with applets...
[12:53] <highvoltage> cool :)
[12:54] <cbx33> and possibly for other stuff
[12:54] <cbx33> like an answer bar...
[12:54] <cbx33> kids are given a question....
[12:54] <lucasvo> is there a blackout function?
[12:54] <cbx33> then then drag and drop the answer onto the "Answer bar"
[12:54] <lucasvo> that would be nice
[12:54] <cbx33> lucasvo: it is planned
[12:54] <lucasvo> but not in spec?
[12:54] <cbx33> lucasvo: could you do me a favour...seeing as it looks like I'll be planning the spec for scp, can you mail me your ideas?
[12:54] <lucasvo> it would be quite easy, just create an app that makes a blackout and then send it to all clients
[12:55] <cbx33> then I can discuss them with ogra
[12:55] <lucasvo> cbx33: I can also add them to the spec
[12:55] <cbx33> hmm...well the spec was for scp completiong, and all bar one item it is complete
[12:55] <cbx33> so I'll probaly start a spec from scratch
[12:55] <lucasvo> oh, ok
[12:57] <lucasvo> hi ogra 
[12:58] <cbx33> ogra: I'm proposing a new spec for SCP...as opposed to editing the last one
[12:58] <cbx33> is that ok with you?
[01:00] <ogra> sure
[01:00] <cbx33> as the last was for a completion
[01:00] <cbx33> will you have any time to chat about SCP before sunday?
[01:01] <lucasvo> cbx33: when will you create the spec?
[01:02] <cbx33> well....it has to be done before sunday....but I wanted to have a word with ogra about it before I finish it
[01:06] <jsgotangco> hey guys
[01:14] <pips1> hey
[01:14] <jsgotangco> for what its worth, i386 is pretty good now
[01:23] <ogra> pips1, seems like
[01:23] <ogra> i'd blame the specific NIC or the kernel ... talk to BenC 
[01:23] <ogra> you could try an install with the NICs in different order and see if it works then
[01:23] <pips1> I can't be the nic since that worked before. so it seems to be the kernel.. hmm
[01:24] <ogra> just select the netgear as primary 
[01:24] <pips1> ok, I'll try that first, before to talking to BenC
[01:25] <pips1> ogra: when do you expect another build?
[01:25] <ogra> i dont
[01:25] <pips1> ic
[01:26] <jsgotangco> we haven't had a new build for 2 days
[01:26] <cbx33> that's good
[01:26] <jsgotangco> its actually pretty good now
[01:26] <ogra> yep
[01:26] <ogra> looks like that will be our release candidate
[01:27] <cbx33> did the login bug get fixed?
[01:27] <ogra>  /Testing/Current looks very good as well
[01:27] <ogra> no, thats all post RC stuff
[01:27] <ogra> mvo even tested amd64 with an amd64 thin client *g*
[01:28] <jsgotangco> yeah i saw his bug
[01:28] <pips1> is there a special installation variant I should go for ?
[01:28] <ogra> pips1, just default ...
[01:28] <ogra> oh, right
[01:28] <cbx33> bbl
[01:29] <pips1> I see 'freespace' and 'auto-resize' haven't been tested
[01:31] <jsgotangco> seems to be kernel related?
[01:31] <ogra> freespace has test results
[01:32] <ogra> 'auto-resize' is missing
[01:32] <jsgotangco> auto-resize i've done 2 hours ago
[01:32] <jsgotangco> ;)
[01:32] <jsgotangco> dinner brb
[01:32] <ogra> jsgotangco, please note it in https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Testing/Current
[01:43] <pips1> ogra: erm, what is the auto-resize option?
[01:43] <pips1> is that using LVM or smth?
[01:47] <pips1> jsgotangco: good work!
[01:47] <pips1> ogra: I actually don't understand what is meant by 'auto-resize'... 
[01:48] <pips1> pffft
[02:03] <luckyed> OK, I finished the upgrade to 6.10, and everything went smoothly except four packets that are reported as being broken right now. It's libxdmcp6, xserver-xorg, xserver-xorg-core and xutils. I can start gnome w/o probs, but the update-manager keeps reporting I should fix the broken packets in synaptic (which doesn't work). I tried to purge them, then reinstall but it doesn't work. Anyone any ideas on how to solve this?
[02:03] <highvoltage> pips1: pfft?
[02:03] <jsgotangco> luckyed: try doing it from the console, there are updates for that
[02:05] <^Ghost2U> morning all
[02:08] <pips1> highvoltage: pfft = exhaling air between half-closed lips. can mean anything really. :-) surprised, humoured, disbelief, ..
[02:08] <luckyed> jsgotangco: I did it from the console. Even stopped gdm first, but ... no luck
[02:09] <jsgotangco> luckyed: strange, i just updated mine a few minutes ago ;)
[02:11] <highvoltage> pips1: ok, I thought so, I just wondered at what you were pfffting
[02:13] <pips1> I was pfffting at jsgotangco slave comment
[02:14] <jsgotangco> hi willvdl 
[02:14] <willvdl> hey jsgot,
[02:14] <willvdl> oops, comma didn't work :)
[02:15] <pips1> luckyed: jsgotangco, why is it that always people with the least experience (like myself :-) run into most problems, while people who can easily fix problem, don't get problems in the first place? <-- I'm not really serious about this ;-)
[02:16] <^Ghost2U> I installed dapper, fixed dhcp (non-default ip's), but i did it with 2 nics installed. I want to remove the 2nd nic, but that's the one accessing the 'net.. help?
[02:17] <lucasvo> ^Ghost2U: how does it access the net? Is it directly conected to a modem or is there a NAT router?
[02:17] <^Ghost2U> btw, 2nd nic is usb, already have a gateway, so this config ties up an additional port on my switch...
[02:18] <luckyed> pips: It's not really a big problem because I used a test system anyway. Main purpose was to see if all works flawlessly, but now I'm thinking about doing a clean install instead of updating and running into the same probs on the productivity server :) 
[02:19] <^Ghost2U> lucasvo: have a router, it's bypassing that router and going to my main router.. do not want that.
[02:19] <Jsgmob> A result from upgrade from dapper is always good
[02:20] <lucasvo> ^Ghost2U: these two routers, what do they do?
[02:20] <pips1> luckyed: well, I think the problems you encountered should be fixed and dist-upgrade should be an option that works. At least for a system that was a simple install without any heavy (manual re-)configuration!
[02:20] <lucasvo> your ltsp server is behind the main router or is it a child router?
[02:21] <^Ghost2U> lucasvo: the idea was to create a network solely for ltsp, which uses (call it router B) which in turn accesses main router (A)
[02:22] <^Ghost2U> I was having probs with dapper install, and in desperation added a 2nd nic, which really wasn't the problem.. but now it is
[02:22] <luckyed> pips1: Actually I'm positively surprised that 4 broken xserver packages don't cause more trouble. As I said, I still can logon to gnome and I think there's some way of repairing those broken packages, now it just depends if that's easier than a new install... :)
[02:23] <^Ghost2U> because i now have this 2nd nic, my ltsp clients go thru it instead of router B for 'net access
[02:24] <^Ghost2U> I want to remove the 2nd nic, thereby isolating all ltsp traffic to router B
[02:25] <^Ghost2U> router B already passes info to router A for 'net access
[02:26] <lucasvo> ^Ghost2U: ltsp clients dont access the internet, it's the server which does that
[02:26] <lucasvo> ^Ghost2U: the server is connected to router A or B?
[02:28] <^Ghost2U> thanks to the 2 nics... both
[02:28] <^Ghost2U> 2nd nic on A
[02:28] <^Ghost2U> 1st on B
[02:28] <lucasvo> ^Ghost2U: B is running dhcp?
[02:28] <lucasvo> and nat?
[02:28] <^Ghost2U> nat.. no dhcp
[02:29] <^Ghost2U> turned it off cause ltsp on edubuntu is running
[02:29] <lucasvo> so, if you disconnect the 2 nic, internet doesn't wor anymore?
[02:29] <^Ghost2U> correct
[02:30] <^Ghost2U> but it only affects router B's network
[02:31] <lucasvo> you have to add a default gateway on the ltsp server for the internet
[02:31] <lucasvo> however I am not sure about it.
[02:31] <lucasvo> You can try: sudo route add default gw _IP of Router A_
[02:33] <pips1> ogra: I re-installed and chose nforce nic as primary interface. Internet access from server is working. However, the second nic *still* isn't configured for ltsp at all, even though the nic appears in lspci ?!
[02:34] <^Ghost2U> hmmm
[02:34] <pips1> thus, the problem can't lie with the nic not being supported by the kernel.. it really looks like some wierd new installer bug.. ?
[02:36] <highvoltage> any licensing guru's in the channel?
[02:36] <pips1> heh
[02:36] <pips1> not me
[02:39] <RichEd> hi willvdl  ... can you drive the handbook processes ad per the email this morning ? get it documented on one of your wiki pages ...
[02:39] <RichEd> *as per
[02:39] <jsgotangco> nice email btw
[02:40] <RichEd> thanks ...
[02:40] <RichEd> willvdl: I think nixternal and hedgemage are the brains to pick and document ... then we can fill in the gaps.
[02:41] <willvdl> RichEd. Will do. Catching up on email now
[02:41] <RichEd> thanks ... i need to make sure this one has a home and wil run on its own with you on the rudder ... or else it will fall off the back of the truck
[02:44] <willvdl> Yeah, I'm very keen to get into the doc side
[02:45] <willvdl> It compliments the other stuff I do
[02:45] <pips1> \o/
[02:53] <willvdl> highvoltage, just ran into Hilton and Bernie in JHB
[02:55] <highvoltage> willvdl: oh cool, I just had a conference call with him :)
[02:55] <willvdl> he looked tired
[02:58] <highvoltage> he sounded tired.
[02:59] <willvdl> then I conclude he must be tired
[03:02] <highvoltage> good call.
[03:08] <jsgotangco> highvoltage: you still work with hilton right?
[03:08] <highvoltage> jsgotangco: yep
[03:13] <willvdl> gotto go home quick brb
[03:31] <rodarvus> ogra, what kind of testing you'd like me to do on Edubuntu Live CD?
[03:32] <ogra> only the standard ... install it, open some apps and test them ... 
[03:33] <ogra> create a document open a webpage etc
[03:34] <rodarvus> no ltsp stuff, right?
[03:34] <ogra> yep
[03:34] <rodarvus> (I never used the live cd for edubuntu, to be sincere, so I don't know what it is capable of)
[03:35] <cbx33> rodarvus: we don;t have ltsp on live
[03:35] <cbx33> do we?
[03:35] <ogra> not yet
[03:35] <cbx33> we're going to?
[03:35] <ogra> in feisty probably
[03:35] <rodarvus> thats what I thought :)
[03:35] <cbx33> you said we'd never have it
[03:35] <cbx33> :p
[03:35] <cbx33> feisty?
[03:35] <cbx33> is that the new name?
[03:35] <rodarvus> yeah!
[03:35] <ogra> not as long as nfs and unionfs dont like each other
[03:35] <highvoltage> cbx33: don't you read planet anymore!?
[03:36] <ogra> cbx33, you should read ubuntu-devel-announce ;)
[03:36] <cbx33> I've been outta touch the last few days
[03:36] <cbx33> I'm the only one here
[03:36] <ogra> it has all the intresting bits
[03:36] <cbx33> my colleague is out on a course...
[03:36] <cbx33> SUX - he is allowed on a 3day union course
[03:37] <highvoltage> cbx33: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/60
[03:38] <jsgotangco> heh
[03:38] <jsgotangco> we're all feisty now eh?
[03:39] <highvoltage> very :)
[03:40] <cbx33> indeed
[03:40] <jsgotangco> heh hopefully, sabdfl will have some time on this trip here for a beer
[03:40] <cbx33> brb
[03:41] <^Ghost2U> lucasvo: i got it!
[03:42] <^Ghost2U> lucasvo: it was so simple, I could kick myself... simply by deactivating eth1 dapper sets the gateway to eth0 and the rest falls into place
[03:44] <^Ghost2U> lucasvo: now my ltsp network is running properly, and the thin clients have no probs connecting (sweet!) :D
[03:45] <sbalneav> Morning all
[03:45] <^Ghost2U> morning
[03:45] <highvoltage> morning mr balneav
[03:45] <highvoltage> s
[03:47] <sbalneav> Mr?!?!
[03:47] <sbalneav> Dude, no one ever calls me Mr. :)
[03:47] <sbalneav> Scott, or Scotty, or "Hey, you, fatso!" all work.
[03:47] <sbalneav> (The last one's what my wife calls me :) )
[03:48] <ogra> lol
[03:48] <sbalneav> ogra: Hey!  Looks like you and I will be bunkies!
[03:48] <ogra> where, when ? 
[03:48] <sbalneav> At BTS, before the conf.
[03:48] <ogra> ah :)
[03:48] <ogra> cool
[03:49] <bddebian> Howdy
[03:49] <sbalneav> Hey bddebian
[03:49] <bddebian> Hello sbalneav
[03:50] <sbalneav> ogra: You don't like to steal San Franscisco street signs at 3:00 AM, do you?  Or listen to Roy Orbison?
[03:50] <sbalneav> There's a story to this.  I don't think you've ever heard it.
[03:50] <ogra> heh, no, i didnt
[03:50] <sbalneav> I'll tell you in SF.  You'll get a laugh.
[03:51] <sbalneav> For BTS, His Buddy Jim Glutting will show up for a bit.  At the UDS, It'll be me.
[03:52] <sbalneav> ogra: Did you happen to get a chance to look at the handbook?
[03:53] <ogra> not yet ... i'm testing like mad
[03:53] <sbalneav> OK, sorry, no rush.
[03:53] <ogra> can i do it tomorrow ? 
[03:53] <ogra> or do you need input today ?
[03:54] <sbalneav> Dude, you do it when *YOU* get the time.  I don't think it's going to be released before go-live anyway.
[03:55] <sbalneav> But it would be nice, around the release date, if we could docbook->html some of the sections, and at least point people to it for the LTSP bits.
[03:55] <sbalneav> I'm going to convert some of my localdev docs, and get them into the handbook as well.  I'll do that today.
[03:56] <ogra> the biggest problem i've seen until now is that users forget adding themselves to the fuse group (even the gui has an explicit explanation about ltsp devices)
[03:57] <ogra> the docs should point that out several times
[03:57] <ogra> sbalneav, btw, its a really bad ide to use etx2/3 disks with ltspfs i found ...
[03:57] <ogra> *idea
[03:58] <sbalneav> I should add that to the handbook.
[03:58] <sbalneav> ogra: Oh?  Howcome?  
[03:58] <ogra> well, by default they want a fschk after 30 mounts
[03:58] <ogra> they work
[03:58] <sbalneav> Oh
[03:58] <sbalneav> ouvh
[03:58] <sbalneav> ouch
[03:58] <sbalneav> yeah
[03:59] <sbalneav> hmm
[03:59] <ogra> i think you can switch that off somehow
[03:59] <sbalneav> Yeah, with tune2fs or something.
[03:59] <ogra> we should document how for users who want etx2/3
[03:59] <^Ghost2U> hate to interrupt, but can you point me to the localdev docs?
[04:00] <sbalneav> LOL
[04:00] <sbalneav> Well, we're writing them :)
[04:00] <ogra> there are none yet for ubuntu :) thats whyt we're talking about
[04:00] <^Ghost2U> ok,
[04:00] <sbalneav> Here's the quick and dirty synopsis
[04:01] <sbalneav> 1) Add the user you want to be able to plug devices to the fuse group.
[04:01] <sbalneav> 2) Plug stuff in.
[04:01] <sbalneav> 3) It pops up on the desktop.
[04:01] <sbalneav> 4) PROFIT!!!
[04:01] <^Ghost2U> lol
[04:01] <sbalneav> Man, that meme never gets old.
[04:02] <ogra> sbalneav, not for upgraded dapper-edgy boxes ... you will need to install ltspfsd in the chroot and ltspfs on the server
[04:02] <sbalneav> Oooh.
[04:03] <sbalneav> I'm thinking it'd probably be best to tell people to mv /opt/ltsp to /opt/ltsp.old, and ltsp-build-client again.
[04:03] <stelis> Burgwork: ping.
[04:03] <sbalneav> Because, they'll want all the good udev + ldm + other magic.
[04:03] <^Ghost2U> well until edgy completes it's shakedown, does any of this apply to dapper
[04:03] <sbalneav> No, Dapper LTSP had no localdev.
[04:04] <ogra> sbalneav, thats what i usually do, but you *can* upgrade the chroot, so i need to document that 
[04:04] <ogra> upgrade testing is on my https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Testing/Current plan anyway
[04:07] <sbalneav> ogra: http://developer.novell.com/wiki/index.php/Edgy/HOWTO:_PulseAudio
[04:07] <ogra> yep, got it in my bookmarks already
[04:07] <sbalneav> Someone did all the heavy lifting for us!
[04:07] <ogra> i'll point to it if i write the pulse spec for MV
[04:08] <ogra> that was MrMoo
[04:08] <ogra> (from #ltsp)
[04:08] <sbalneav> Ah, cool.
[04:22] <pips1> What the...
[04:22] <pips1> I had it all working?!
[04:23] <pips1> argh
[04:27] <stelis> whiprush: ping
[04:28] <pips1> I'm glad the cd is working for you all, and thus, I must conclude that I'm surely doing something silly... 
[04:29] <pips1> I'm sure I'll suddenly discover that..
[04:29] <ogra> pips1, not you, but your HW
[04:29] <pips1> well.. I had it all working at some point, so I don't get it.
[04:30] <ogra> send me /var/log/installer/syslog ...
[04:31] <pips1> !pastebin
[04:31] <ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (you can always find it in the channel topic, among other useful things)
[04:31] <pips1> ah
[04:31] <ogra> no
[04:31] <ogra> by mail
[04:31] <pips1> no? ok
[04:31] <ogra> its to big for pastebin
[04:34] <pips1> which syslog do you want? the daily-12-oct or the lasted-daily-install one?
[04:34] <ogra> one where your NIC didnt work
[04:35] <pips1> well, it doesn't work on any of these installs
[04:35] <ogra> so any will do :)
[04:35] <pips1> doh, yep
[04:57] <pips1> ogra: syslog sent
[05:16] <cbx33> so tomorrow at 8pm yeh?
[05:16] <cbx33> whoops
[05:17] <pips1> cbx33: hmm?
[05:30] <cbx33> ogra, I'm gonna create the spec to work on now
[05:30] <cbx33> what do yo uwant me to name it?
[05:30] <cbx33> any preference?
[05:31] <cbx33> so anyone with any thoughts about SCP please mail me, and I'll try to include as much as I can
[05:35] <highvoltage> cbx33: is SCP included in Edgy?
[05:35] <cbx33> yes
[05:35] <highvoltage> i haven't gotten my vmware back yet, going to install now on real pc
[05:35] <highvoltage> cbx33: rockin
[05:35] <cbx33> yeh it's working well
[05:36] <cbx33> just planning on the next version
[05:36] <cbx33> got lots planned
[05:37] <highvoltage> cbx33: from our schools that also has Windows labs, our #1 request so far has been for a tool for the teacher to control the remote desktops
[05:37] <cbx33> so vnc controlling the desktop
[05:38] <cbx33> that's planned for feisth
[05:38] <highvoltage> cbx33: so if this works well in the schools, you're going to make lots of people here in .za ver, very happy
[05:38] <cbx33> feisty
[05:59] <Burgwork> cbx33: vnc via telepathy would rock
[05:59] <cbx33> ooh....I have heard of telephay but don;t know really what it is
[05:59] <cbx33> Burgwork, care to shed some light
[06:00] <Burgwork> telepathy is to communication as gstreamer is to media
[06:00] <Burgwork> a framework for doing cool things on, without having to worry about the messy implementation details
[06:00] <Burgwork> part of what I want to work on in the fiesty timeframe is a remote assistance thing via telepathy
[06:02] <cbx33> Burgwork, sounds cool
[06:02] <cbx33> could be part of SCP
[06:02] <cbx33> Burgwork, written in what language?
[06:02] <cbx33> or does it have many bindings?
[06:02] <Burgwork> telepathy is written in C I think
[06:02] <Burgwork> but has python, etc. bindings
[06:02] <cbx33> what would you write in?
[06:02] <cbx33> ooh 
[06:03] <cbx33> python is my language of love ;)
[06:03] <Burgwork> I wouldnm
[06:03] <Burgwork> I wouldn't code this, I would have other people do it for me
[06:03] <cbx33> ahhh
[06:04] <Burgwork> anyway, vino can probably be taken and used
[06:05] <Burgwork> I need to find a vnc expert
[06:06] <cbx33> hehe
[06:06] <cbx33> well ogra is goign to hack up x11vnc for SCP
[06:07] <cbx33> what would be different about vnc over telephay
[06:07] <cbx33> :S
[06:28] <pips1> what does the ubuntu dvd contain?
[06:29] <Burgwork> pips1: all of main
[07:09] <willreed03> so i have a soundblaster live 5.1 card and creative 5.1 speaker system...when i first installed ubuntu i could only get 2.1 sound...im using the ALSA guimixer and amarok to play mp3's...i can turn up the surround controls and get sound out of all my speakers but then when i use my multimedia keyboard to turn down the sound or mute it only mutes the 2.1 speakers...and i am absolutely lost as how to get it fixed....i have been trying lots of stuff and
[07:09] <willreed03> nothing seems to work...help anyone????
[07:11] <BonBonTheJon> willreed03: maybe ask on #ubuntu
[07:12] <willvdl> there are some sound specific channels too. #alsa I think
[07:14] <willreed03> alright
[07:14] <willreed03> thanks
[07:14] <BonBonTheJon> any one know how to view DocBook in KDE
[07:17] <cbx33> !seen mhz
[07:17] <ubotu> I haven't seen mhz recently
[07:54] <LaserJock> anybody seen this? http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=280193
[07:56] <cbx33> LaserJock, wow
[07:56] <cbx33> that is cool
[08:06] <highvoltage> OMG
[08:07] <LaserJock> !seen RichEd 
[08:07] <pygi> what is it highvoltage ?
[08:07] <ubotu> RichEd is on IRC right now!
[08:07] <highvoltage> LaserJock: that is seriously cool :)
[08:07] <highvoltage> pygi: that OMG was for LaserJock's link... I have another one though...
[08:08] <highvoltage> I got a link to what Skolelinux's new website will look like from their list:
[08:08] <highvoltage> http://folk.uio.no/lrisan/SkoleLinux/test4.html
[08:08] <pygi> I didnt saw, got off for a sec as you saw :P
[08:08] <highvoltage> look familiar? :)
[08:08] <LaserJock> maybe somebody should post a reply on the forum?
[08:09] <highvoltage> LaserJock: I wouldn't mind?
[08:09] <highvoltage> LaserJock: we can feature it as a news item on the edubuntu website too :)
[08:09] <LaserJock> go for it
[08:09] <highvoltage> (perhaps that will cause a trend ;) )
[08:10] <highvoltage> ok, I'm going to put the story up first and then reply and tell them
[08:11] <cbx33> nice highvoltage 
[08:19] <LaserJock> btw, thanks to _MMA_ for giving me the link :-)
[08:19] <_MMA_> :) NP
[08:22] <cbx33> hey _MMA_ 
[08:23] <_MMA_> Hey.
[08:24] <_MMA_> You were blocked for the ubuntustudio site right?
[08:25] <cbx33> yes
[08:25] <cbx33> that was pretty funny
[08:25] <cbx33> _MMA_, you in UK?
[08:25] <cbx33> brb
[08:27] <_MMA_> Try now.
[08:27] <_MMA_> Im in the states.
[08:28] <_MMA_> I got the block fixed.
[08:48] <highvoltage> http://edubuntu.org/news/7
[08:49] <highvoltage> LaserJock: ^^^ that ok?
[08:49] <LaserJock> excellent
[08:52] <ogra> highvoltage, sweet
[08:53] <highvoltage> and I've replied back on http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=1637086#post1637086 just now too
[08:55] <_MMA_> Yes. Very nice.
[08:58] <pips1> highvoltage: nice
[09:00] <highvoltage> the kids somehow even manage to match the edubuntu colour scheme :)
[09:02] <pips1> yeah!
[09:02] <pips1> hehe
[09:03] <pips1> that's funny
[09:04] <pips1> ogra, I updated the Download page with the mirrors... I was wondering about the DVD download though.. will there be DVDs for edgy at some point?
[09:06] <LaserJock> highvoltage: we're slowly invading their brains :-)
[09:06] <ogra> pips1, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/dvd/current/ 
[09:06] <ogra> its just not completely tested yet
[09:06] <LaserJock> highvoltage: they'll grow up and start naming their kids gcompris and kalzium before you know it ;-)
[09:06] <pips1> LOL
[09:07] <highvoltage> LaserJock: or... Gallium, for the rebbelious ones :)
[09:08] <LaserJock> another 10-15 years and Xaos will be what everybody will be naming their babies, you'll see
[09:09] <cbx33> heheh
[09:10] <pips1> ogra: did you ever get around checking the syslog I sent? I actually think it might be a waste of time for you... 
[09:23] <pips1> I just got the RC announcement :)
[09:24] <lguerra> Hi all
[09:24] <pips1> hi lguerra
[09:24] <pips1> did you talk to RichEd?
[09:27] <pips1> need to go, cu tomorrow
[09:34] <highvoltage> ogra, I'm probably wrong here, but did you say at one stage that the "Building LTSP chroot" in d-i will show real progress, instead of just jumping to 50% and then finishing? or is this a recurrence of a bug in the installer?
[09:35] <highvoltage> oh, it seems like my pc has actually froze :(
[09:47] <EmxBA> pygi: are you there?
[09:47] <pygi> EmxBA: if you are gonna state lies again, then no
[09:47] <pygi> otherwise yes, kindof ^_^
[09:47] <EmxBA> not lies :)
[09:48] <EmxBA> can you send me /var/lib/dpkg/lock to emx@info.ba ? don't ask me why i need it :)
[09:48] <pygi> lol, why would you want a lock file?!
[09:49] <highvoltage> EmxBA: you can just do a touch /var/lib/dpkg/lock if you really want a lock file :)
[09:51] <EmxBA> oh 
[09:51] <EmxBA> than
[09:51] <EmxBA> i have it and it's blank
[09:51] <highvoltage> EmxBA: I think it's usually blank
[09:52] <highvoltage> EmxBA: what's the problem you're experiencing?
[09:52] <EmxBA> and i updated list of packages (apt-get update) 3 weeks ago and upgraded system. today i done a apt-get update and there are no new packages :S is that usual? 
[09:52] <highvoltage> that is strange
[09:52] <highvoltage> that sounds more like you can possibly have the wrong sources in /etc/apt/sources.lst
[09:52] <highvoltage> it's also possible that your local mirror hasn't been updated for some reason (it sometimes happens)
[09:55] <EmxBA> sources are ok, at.archive.ubuntu.org, i've tried with bs and us and de, always the same problem
[09:56] <EmxBA> maybe dpkg or something hacked in /var/lib/dpkg?
[09:56] <pygi> at!!!
[09:56] <pygi> why is it at?!
[09:57] <stelis> at?
[09:57] <EmxBA> at is austry :S
[09:58] <pygi> well, why are you using austrian server?
[09:58] <EmxBA> ok, that doesn't matter at all
[09:58] <EmxBA> i have de now, pygi
[09:58] <pygi> bleh! :P
[09:58] <EmxBA> can you please help me with this?
[09:58] <pygi> no, two exams tommorow :P
[09:58] <EmxBA> :)
[09:58] <pygi> and dunno what you messed up
[09:58] <EmxBA> i have one too
[09:58] <EmxBA> hm...go to /var/lib/dpkg/
[09:59] <EmxBA> do you have folder named updates? what is in it?
[09:59] <EmxBA> i have it but i contains no files in it
[09:59] <pygi> so whats weird in that? :)
[09:59] <EmxBA> do you have any files?
[10:00] <LaserJock> I don't
[10:00] <EmxBA> ok
[10:00] <pygi> LaserJock: nobody does =)
[10:00] <EmxBA> and file available in /var/lib/dpkg/?
[10:00] <EmxBA> or status file?
[10:00] <LaserJock> I have both
[10:01] <LaserJock> I don't quite understand what your problem is?
[10:01] <LaserJock> you did a apt-get update ?
[10:01] <sbalneav> EmxBA: Can you paste the contents of your /etc/apt/sources.list to the pastebbin?
[10:01] <sbalneav> !pastebin
[10:01] <ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (you can always find it in the channel topic, among other useful things)
[10:01] <pygi> sbalneav: hey 
[10:01] <EmxBA>  i updated list of packages (apt-get update) 3 weeks ago and upgraded system. today i done a apt-get update and there are no new packages :S is that usual? , LaserJock
[10:02] <EmxBA> sbalneav: i know what pastebin is
[10:02] <LaserJock> EmxBA: he just showed you
[10:02] <EmxBA> here is it
[10:02] <EmxBA> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27370/
[10:02] <EmxBA> there should be some new packages, come on!
[10:02] <sbalneav> k
[10:02] <LaserJock> sorry, I thought you said you didn't know :-)
[10:03] <LaserJock> I don't think it's a problem dude
[10:03] <LaserJock> I'm not sure what you're expecting
[10:03] <EmxBA> i'm expecting some updated packages LaserJock
[10:04] <EmxBA> let me do it this way...
[10:04] <LaserJock> so you haven't upgraded for 3 weeks?
[10:04] <sbalneav> EmxBA: You've edited this one yourself?  It's not the standard one.
[10:04] <sbalneav> Because you're missing the line that gives you updates.
[10:04] <LaserJock> oh well it's dapper
[10:04] <LaserJock> that's why
[10:05] <EmxBA> yap i've edited it. the line above says "generated by ubuntu  http://www.ubuntulinux.nl/source-o-matic
[10:05] <LaserJock> you *shouldn't* be getting updates
[10:05] <EmxBA> LaserJock: why? 
[10:05] <EmxBA> aha ...
[10:05] <EmxBA> why that? :D
[10:05] <sbalneav> LaserJock: Yes he should, get a few anyway.
[10:05] <LaserJock> because dapper is already released
[10:05] <EmxBA> and it should be updating regullary ? 
[10:05] <LaserJock> with that sources.list you shouldn't get *any* updates
[10:05] <sbalneav> There's the odd security update.
[10:05] <pygi> sbalneav: hm, are packages in main archive really rebuilt?
[10:05] <sbalneav> Right, with that one he won't.
[10:05] <pygi> it should be in -updates, no?
[10:05] <EmxBA> or i should put edgy instead of dapper? 
[10:06] <LaserJock> arggg
[10:06] <pygi> EmxBA: just use synaptic to edit sources :P
[10:06] <EmxBA> can someone paste some /etc/apt/sources.list that works to pastebin?
[10:06] <EmxBA> ok
[10:06] <sbalneav> EmxBA: Restore your original sources.list that you backed up before you changed it, and everything will be fine.
[10:06] <LaserJock> let's go through this one thing at a time
[10:06] <BonBonTheJon> !easysource
[10:06] <ubotu> source-o-matic is a webpage where you can (re)generate your sources.list - http://www.ubuntu-nl.org/source-o-matic
[10:06] <BonBonTheJon> EmxBA: ^^^
[10:06] <EmxBA> ok
[10:06] <LaserJock> BonBonTheJon: that's what got him in this trouble to start with
[10:06] <EmxBA> i knew that BonBonTheJon
[10:07] <BonBonTheJon> hmm
[10:07] <LaserJock> now, what you have is just the main Dapper repositories
[10:07] <pygi> sbalneav: let's guess, he didn't backup
[10:07] <LaserJock> that will never be updated
[10:07] <EmxBA> what shoulld i have? edgy ? somethin third?
[10:07] <LaserJock> it is what was released
[10:07] <EmxBA> dapper won't be updated anymore? LaserJock?
[10:07] <LaserJock> EmxBA: just hang on
[10:07] <EmxBA> it got upgraded few weeks ago :P
[10:08] <sbalneav> EmxBA: Yes, dapper will be updated for the next 5 years.
[10:08] <LaserJock> updates to a stable release (Dapper) are handled in 2 ways
[10:08] <LaserJock> security updates are handled via the dapper-security repository
[10:08] <EmxBA> instead of this talk, can someone just copy me sources.list THAT WORK?
[10:08] <sbalneav> Just replace this sources.list with the one before your changing it to the source-o-matic one.
[10:08] <LaserJock> which you don't have
[10:09] <LaserJock> other major updates are handled via the dapper-updates repository
[10:09] <LaserJock> so what you are missing are 4 more lines
[10:09] <EmxBA> sbalneav: i don't have it unfortunately
[10:09] <LaserJock> like the top 2 deb lines
[10:09] <EmxBA> LaserJock: can you copy them to pastebin please?
[10:09] <LaserJock> but add in dapper-updates and dapper-security instead of just dapper, does that make sense?
[10:10] <EmxBA> ok
[10:10] <EmxBA> source-o-matic helped me
[10:10] <BonBonTheJon> why not redo source-o-matic and put in all the ubuntu repos
[10:10] <LaserJock> BonBonTheJon: because he doesn't understand what the repos are
[10:10] <EmxBA> i do, LaserJockq
[10:10] <LaserJock> you should be screwing around with things unless you know what you are screwing around with
[10:10] <EmxBA> LOL
[10:10] <LaserJock> *shouldn't
[10:10] <EmxBA> like "i'm stupid and i even don't know what repository is" LaserJock
[10:11] <pygi> EmxBA: you should behave yourself
[10:11] <pygi> this is not first time you are acting like that 
[10:11] <LaserJock> EmxBA: you obviously don't because you should have known you needed dapper-update and dapper-security
[10:11] <LaserJock> I'm not saying you don't know what a repo *is*
[10:11] <EmxBA> i didn't edit my sources.list for 2 months because it worked.
[10:11] <LaserJock> I'm saying that you don't understand what the different Ubuntu repos are for
[10:12] <EmxBA> i didn't know that dapper-update exists, my sources.list worked. end of story. thank you now.
[10:12] <LaserJock> you should read the comments in sources.list before you go blowing it away with some script
[10:12] <BonBonTheJon> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27371/, a basic source.list
[10:13] <BonBonTheJon> oops, i think the comma got in the link
[10:14] <EmxBA> no, it's OK
[10:14] <stelis> EmxBA: We probably all learn to backup config files the hard way 
[10:14] <stelis> Losing your sources.list is getting off lightly :)
[10:14] <EmxBA> yeah, something like that
[10:14] <BonBonTheJon> EmxBA: use that source.list, and put in the other few you had, like compiz (if you are using it)
[10:15] <EmxBA> hmmmm
[10:15] <EmxBA> why do i have these strange erros
[10:15] <EmxBA> *errors
[10:15] <EmxBA> dpkg: serious warning: files list file for package `something' missing, assuming package has no files currently installed.
[10:15] <EmxBA> and tones of those
[10:16] <sbalneav> Because you've got packages installed that you don't have the repos listed for anymore.
[10:16] <EmxBA> and how can i get rid of that?
[10:17] <sbalneav> Well, you'll have to figure out which package it is that's giving the error, then add back in the repo that that package resides in.
[10:18] <EmxBA> ok
[10:21] <BonBonTheJon> EmxBA: are you using compiz, that would be the only difference
[10:24] <pygi> BonBonTheJon: please don't suggest using that script, thanks =)
[10:25] <BonBonTheJon> pygi: sorry, i've never had any problem with it
[10:29] <stelis> BonBonTheJon: Did you get DocBook working?
[10:29] <stelis> I think that you posted a question earlier
[10:29] <LaserJock> well, I don't think it's bad, you just need to be careful and have backups :-)
[10:30] <BonBonTheJon> stelis: not really, i have to load yelp everytime to view it
[10:30] <stelis> Amen
[10:30] <BonBonTheJon> stelis: and is there a DocBook editor besides kate
[10:30] <stelis> Second thing first: there are several, depending on your needs
[10:31] <BonBonTheJon> stelis: for kde?
[10:31] <sbalneav> There is only one need.  And vim fufills it. :)
[10:31] <sbalneav> s/fufills/fulfills/
[10:31] <pygi> sbalneav: :)))
[10:31] <stelis> I'm currently using Emacs, but I hate vim and emacs equally
[10:32] <sbalneav> Heathen!!!! :)
[10:32] <stelis> But the nxml plugin for Emacs with DocBookj is useful
[10:32] <BonBonTheJon> stelis: i was looking for more of a graphical editor,
[10:32] <stelis> Nano is the one true way
[10:32] <sbalneav> Nano!?
[10:32] <pygi> o joy, let's hunt for Ed :)
[10:32] <BonBonTheJon> I do like nano
[10:32] <sbalneav> :)
[10:32] <LaserJock> I like them all
[10:32] <stelis> BonBonTheJon: text editor arguments are a tradition
[10:33] <LaserJock> BonBonTheJon: well, you could build the docbook into HTML and view it that way :-)
[10:33] <sbalneav> Yeah, you're not having fun in the Linux world unless you're arguing about your editor zealotry. :)
[10:33] <BonBonTheJon> is there an easy way to view docbook, so i can refresh when i change something
[10:33] <sbalneav> That's actually a good question.
[10:34] <sbalneav> Yelp needs a reload button.
[10:34] <LaserJock> Ctrl-R
[10:34] <sbalneav> Which reminds me, I have to add a chapter about localdevs to the Edubuntu handbook tonight.
[10:34] <sbalneav> Does that reload?
[10:34] <LaserJock> yes
[10:34] <sbalneav> Sexy!
[10:35] <stelis> I have a script to rebuild after I've changed something, but I don't know of WYSIWYG editor
[10:35] <stelis> The tools are kind of crusty
[10:35] <LaserJock> conglomerate is a WYSIWYG editor
[10:35] <pygi> sbalneav: indeed ;)
[10:36] <stelis> Is that being developed again?
[10:36] <LaserJock> but it doesn't really work for very big/complicated docs
[10:36] <BonBonTheJon> i'm maybe about halfway on the concepts: networks and networking
[10:36] <stelis> Dave Malcolm stopped work on it a while ago
[10:36] <stelis> BonBonJon: Could you pastebin this?
[10:36] <stelis> I've been working some more on this myself
[10:37] <BonBonTheJon> !pastebin > bonbonthejon
[10:37] <pygi> stelis: so the project is dead? :-/
[10:38] <BonBonTheJon> stelis: i hope its ok http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27373/
[10:38] <stelis> pygi: I don't know
[10:39] <stelis> I just remember an email where DM said he hadn't had time for it 
[10:39] <pygi> cvs sees old :(
[10:40] <stelis> It'd be a shame
[10:42] <stelis> BonBonTheJon: We can probably merge together - I've haven't done hardware  
[10:42] <stelis> Hang on a sec...
[10:45] <stelis> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27374/
[10:45] <stelis> Thanks for being patient
[10:47] <stelis> What I've done is tacked my waffle after yours 
[10:47] <stelis> Since my bit picks up where your text ends
[10:47] <stelis> Feel free to rewrite what I've written
[10:48] <stelis> FWIW, one of the aims of my stuff is to explain the terms that the user will see during the installation process
[10:49] <stelis> e.g. They are prompted to specify a proxy server for APT
[10:50] <stelis> or "was", since I think that you'd probably do better on this section than me
[10:51] <stelis> I keep wanting to oversimplify
[11:22] <cbx33> hey people
[11:24] <LaserJock> hi
[11:24] <cbx33> dude
[11:24] <cbx33> how are you
[11:25] <LaserJock> fine
[11:43] <BonBonTheJon> how do you comment in docbook
[11:44] <stelis> <!-- Comment -->
[11:45] <BonBonTheJon> thanks, stelis