[12:08] <Kamion> elmo: I mean the temporary removal trick, as you say
[12:08] <Kamion> edgy upload -> removed from edgy -> edgy upload with << version
[12:09] <elmo> if the upload was >> dapper, it would succeed, yeah
[12:09] <Kamion> so, speaking of ndiswrapper-utils as we were
[12:09] <Kamion> +ndiswrapper (1.5-1ubuntu1) dapper; urgency=low
[12:09] <Kamion> +
[12:09] <Kamion> +  * Resynchronise with Debian.  (Totally me!)
[12:09] <Kamion> +
[12:09] <Kamion> + -- Scott James Remnant <scott@ubuntu.com>  Wed, 16 Nov 2005 23:39:48 +0000
[12:09] <Kamion> that means presumably that ndiswrapper 1.5-1 existed in Debian at some point
[12:09] <Kamion> ndiswrapper-utils |      1.1-5 |      unstable | all
[12:10] <Kamion> elmo: fancy some archaeology? :)
[12:10] <elmo> Kamion: no need, I remember this - dilinger did indeed do the temporary removal trick, but to my shame I allowed him to
[12:10] <elmo> it didn't affect a released distro though or even testing, only unstable, and only for a matter of days, IIRC
[12:11] <o_cee> ooh, finally f-spot got the new query stuff! maybe it will be useful after all
[12:11] <Kamion> ah, but we were unlucky enough that it affected *our* released distro ...
[12:11] <elmo> he had some relatively convincing reasons, but I forget exactly what they were - something to do with sane transitions from stable
[12:11] <elmo> Kamion: doh
[12:15] <elmo> oh my god, the conversation about why it was necessary is horrific
[12:16] <bettsp> How do I compile a custom kernel in Edgy? KernelCustomBuild in the wiki seems out of date
[12:17] <bettsp> I ask in dev, because it seems undocumented
[12:17] <bettsp> (i.e. no one outside of the kernel team actually knows the correct answer)
[12:18] <Kamion> the only thing that seems liable to be out of date there is the precise list of flavours (686/k7 -> generic)
[12:19] <bettsp> Karnion: For example, "debian/rules updateconfigs" throws a "No rule to make target" error
[12:20] <elmo> Kamion: http://people.ubuntu.com/~james/tmp/ndishell.txt, FWIW - I have no idea if that's interesting or relevant though
[12:20] <elmo> (do we have a madison port for soyuz yet?)
[12:20] <bettsp> The build command also fails with "No rule to make target"
[12:20] <Kamion> elmo: no, just madison-lite installed on drescher
[12:21] <Kamion> 'debian/rules build' is not allowed to fail; that's a policy-required target
[12:22] <Kamion> bettsp: silly question, but did you cd into the correct directory?
[12:22] <Kamion> updateconfigs is there
[12:22] <bettsp> Kamion: I assume I should be at /usr/src/linux-source-2.6.17, otherwise the paths would be off
[12:23] <bettsp> I got the source via apt-get install linux-source and un-tar'ing it. Was that correct?
[12:24] <Kamion> elmo: oh, dear god, that's extremely unfortunate
[12:25] <Kamion> elmo: that tells me why an epoch won't help, at any rate
[12:27] <bettsp> Kamion: Where did you get your kernel tree from?
[12:27] <Kamion> I was looking at the source package. hold on, I'm checking the linux-source .deb
[12:28] <mdz> Kamion: will you drain the ndiswrapper swamp?
[12:28] <mdz> (post-RC)
[12:31] <Kamion> bettsp: in order to use the debian/rules stuff as documented, you need to either use git or 'apt-get source linux-source-2.6.17'; looks like the linux-source-2.6.17 binary package isn't actually enough
[12:31] <Kamion> DAMN
[12:32] <Kamion> mdz: I'm not sure I'm up to this particular Herculean labour; still trying to get my head around it
[12:35] <wasabi> ajmitch: Sorry. What's up with your focus on network-authentication? Anything? Going to make it to UMV?
[12:36] <ajmitch> wasabi: yes I'll be there if I can organise somewhere to stay
[12:37] <Nafallo> ajmitch: google should have some serverhalls, no? ;-)
[12:37] <ajmitch> mmm, the sweet sound of servers to lull me to sleep
[12:37] <Nafallo> :-)
[12:39] <johanbr> And nothing beats the halon fire extinguishers as a wakeup alarm. 
[01:02] <mvo_> ogra: still here? I got no edubuntu usplash artwork on the thin-client (amd64). known issue?
[01:02] <Kamion> that's known, it was mentioned in the Edubuntu meeting earlier today
[01:03] <mvo_> Kamion: thanks!
[01:18] <Kamion> good, my cdebconf-keystep fix works, with some further tweaks
[01:23] <Kamion> mdz: I'll try to confirm bug 66815 once I've done my last Ubuntu amd64 DVD test
[01:23] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 66815 in kubuntu-default-settings "amd64 usplash boot broken" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/66815
[01:23] <mdz> Kamion: thanks
[01:24] <ogra> hmm, missed mvo, seems he was also bitten by bug 66808
[01:24] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 66808 in ltsp "first login on ltsp client fails due to missing gstreamer database" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/66808
[01:25] <Kamion> there's a kubuntu-default-settings fix in the unapproved queue, so we don't need Riddell to be around
[01:25] <Kamion> (for this particular fix, anyway :-) )
[01:30] <mdz> Kamion: alternatively, we could rebuild just kubuntu/amd64 since it would need a second test anyway
[01:30] <mdz> Kamion: we are able to do that now, yes?
[01:31] <Kamion> since the breezy era, yes
[01:31] <Kamion> what do you mean would need a second test anyway?
[01:32] <Kamion> breezy> er, I think I mean dapper
[01:32] <Kamion> the one after wherever we had the spec-sprint in the basement
[02:17] <mdz> Kamion: well, we can either test it to confirm his bug, or just apply the fix and test from there
[02:18] <mdz> the only instance where we would forego the fix for RC would be if it works for most folks other than riddell
[02:27] <Kamion> mdz: up to you; I'm a little over an hour away from being able to test
[02:27] <Kamion> bug 66785 should be fixed for final IMHO; targetted
[02:27] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 66785 in yaboot-installer "yaboot failed to install on resizing partitions" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/66785
[02:27] <Kamion> easy fix
[02:33] <jdong> why is ext3 trying to punish me for torrenting 35GB today? :)
[02:44] <whiprush> wasabi_: hey should we make an umbrella topic for our stuff or do you want to wait until mountain view?
[02:44] <Burgwork> whiprush: you talking about ldap stuff?
[02:45] <Burgwork> whiprush: ogra and guy named stelis were also interested?
[02:45] <Burgwork> s/?//
[02:45] <whiprush> were they?
[02:45] <Burgwork> you in #edubuntu ?
[02:45] <whiprush> no, joining
[02:46] <ajmitch> hey whiprush 
[02:46] <whiprush> hi ajmitch 
[02:47] <bluefoxicy> keybuk.. is not here, damnit.
[02:47] <ajmitch> whiprush: start speccing now, rather than later
[02:47] <ajmitch> since they have to be approved for UDS discussion
[02:49] <Burgwork> whiprush: I plan to work on something tongiht, provided ldap gives me more love
[02:49] <whiprush> Burgwork: ajmitch: I'm up for a while, you guys want to just start a skeleton up now?
[02:50] <ajmitch> I won't have a lot of time this afternoon, but I can give some input
[02:51] <Burgwork> whiprush: start working. I am busy with ldap at work
[02:51] <whiprush> heh
[02:51] <whiprush> ok
[02:51] <Burgwork> whiprush: it is the pain
[02:51] <Burgwork> convinced my non-techy boss that NIS was a bad idea, mostly by lying through my teeth
[02:51] <jdong> out of curiousity, has anyone tried ext4 yet?
[02:52] <whiprush> Burgwork: not a lie, it is a bad idea.
[02:52] <whiprush> you  just don't know why yet, heh
[02:54] <Burgwork> whiprush: they use it in our other office
[02:54] <Burgwork> whiprush: one major piece: openldap or FDS?
[02:54] <whiprush> Burgwork: I'd be surprised if anyone doesn't choose FDS.
[02:54] <Burgwork> whiprush: it needs some work
[02:54] <whiprush> yes
[02:55] <whiprush> Burgwork: doing it right vs. doing it right now is my opinion on that.
[02:55] <ajmitch> it needs a hell of a lot of work
[02:56] <wasabi_> whiprush: No, we should get started.
[02:56] <Burgwork> ajmitch: one person, how many months?
[02:56] <ajmitch> many
[02:56] <wasabi_> Whenever you + I + whomever is available on IRC.
[02:56] <wasabi_> (which is now for me actually)
[02:56] <ajmitch> I can't give a good estimate
[02:56] <whiprush> what do you guys think about moving to like, #ubuntu-ldap and getting a skeleton busted out tonite.
[02:57] <wasabi_> Totally
[02:57] <whiprush> Note: there's a huge "enterprise" thread on the forums with some good ideas.
[02:57] <whiprush> ok, let's do it
[03:07] <jonh_wendell> is there any chance gaim 2beta4 enter in edgy?
[03:08] <ajmitch> very little chance
[03:08] <ajmitch> basically none at this point, I'd say
[03:28] <bluefoxicy> it's a Hobbsee
[03:28] <Hobbsee> bluefoxicy: indeed.  *waves her long pointy stick of DOOM around*
[03:29] <bluefoxicy> ..... you know, that draws far fewer comments to mind when a girl does it.
[03:29] <Nafallo> :-)
[03:30] <bluefoxicy> although if steve irwin did it it would be his long pointy stingray of doom
[03:31] <Hobbsee> heh
[03:31] <StevenK> Boo, hiss!
[03:36] <Kamion> hmm, that's interesting, launchpad-integration seems to work fine on the Kubuntu desktop CD
[03:36] <Kamion> wonder how it manages that given the apparently non-GNOME-specific breakage earlier
[03:37] <Kamion> and given that the /proc/*/exe symlinks exhibit the same /filesystem.squashfs/* thing
[03:52] <whiprush> tfheen: infinity: we've started https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-directory and #ubuntu-ldap for discussion on shaping up specs for MV.
[03:54] <Kamion> mdz: re simplify-oem-installation, I've been thinking about merging oem-config into ubiquity; they might not actually be the same application, but they should share more code and probably be built from the same source
[03:56] <Kamion> mdz: this would make it pretty trivial to e.g. suck the pretty timezone selector into oem-config
[04:03] <Kamion> publisher running by hand
[04:08] <LaserJock> whiprush: shesh, a whole channel just for ldap?
[04:09] <whiprush> LaserJock: people are pumped up to help, why not!
[04:09] <ajmitch> LaserJock: of course
[04:10] <ajmitch> LaserJock: 8 people there & we just created it
[04:11] <LaserJock> well, in the Edubuntu meeting this morning at least 3 people said they were working on ldap specs :-)
[04:12] <ajmitch> yes, which is what we have to clean up
[04:12] <ajmitch> & I've heard of 3 different people wanting to fight with FDS packaging
[04:14] <LaserJock> well, you guys can have it :-)
[04:52] <sfllaw> Kamion: Is auto-resize not an option for ubiquity?
[04:53] <Kamion> sfllaw: it is
[04:53] <sfllaw> Kamion: Strange, I'm not offered it.
[04:53] <Kamion> sfllaw: auto-resize cannot always be offered. If you put /var/log/partman somewhere I can see it, I can tell you why it's not being offered in this case.
[04:53] <Kamion> sfllaw: the PC partition table sucks, so I just can't always do it
[04:53] <Kamion> (seriously, the restrictions are insane)
[04:54] <sfllaw> Is there any configuration where I can guarantee this?
[04:54] <sfllaw> Also, not showing it at all is a pretty bad UI.
[04:54] <Kamion> I disagree
[04:54] <sfllaw> Because there will be installation instructions out there that will say "Choose auto-resize".
[04:54] <Kamion> but it's not feasible to fix that at present, anyway
[04:54] <sfllaw> I know.
[04:54] <Kamion> (even after edgy)
[04:55] <Kamion> grr, kded medianotifier still pops up
[04:55] <Kamion> guarantee> >=6GB disk, immediately after a fresh "erase disk" installation
[04:56] <Kamion> those installation instructions should say "choose auto-resize, if available" and go on to describe what to do if it isn't
[04:56] <Kamion> they have to do that anyway
[04:57] <sfllaw> Kamion: I'd prefer to have it discoverable as to why you can't choose auto-resize.  But it's only a minor problem.
[04:57] <Kamion> showing the option greyed out isn't going to help users reading installation instructions that don't describe what to do if the option isn't available
[04:57] <Kamion> I agree it should be more discoverable, if only so I don't keep having to read partman logs to diagnose it :)
[04:58] <Kamion> although once or twice reading those partman logs has uncovered genuine bugs in the auto-resize logic
[04:58] <Kamion> so I am always interested to see them
[04:58] <sfllaw> Greyed out with something like "Do foo to manually resize your partitions.  [Details...] "
[04:58] <sfllaw> Maybe?
[04:59] <sfllaw> With Details being what's in partman?
[04:59] <Kamion> "do foo" is in fact going to be "delete some of your partitions" in some cases
[04:59] <Kamion> if, for example, you already have four primary partitions
[05:04] <Kamion> the cases where we cannot auto-resize are basically (a) four primary partitions (b) three primary partitions and no extended partition (partman-auto always wants /boot to be on a primary partition) (c) only resizable partitions are separated from the extended partition by a primary partition (d) no partitions we know how to resize (e) not enough room on any partitions we know how to resize
[05:04] <Kamion> oh and (f) already enough free space on disk
[05:04] <Kamion> free = unpartitioned
[05:05] <sfllaw> You need unpartitioned space?
[05:05] <sfllaw> Not just free space?
[05:05] <sfllaw> That's sort of brutal.
[05:05] <Kamion> I think you misunderstand me
[05:05] <Kamion> if there's already enough unpartitioned space on the disk, then there is no point auto-resizing; you might as well just create a partition in the unpartitioned space
[05:06] <Kamion> that's case (f)
[05:06] <sfllaw> Ah.
[05:06] <sfllaw> Why wouldn't you make auto-resize do the Right Thing?
[05:06] <sfllaw> Which is not resize anything?
[05:06] <Kamion> because there's already an option on the menu to do that
[05:07] <Kamion> labelled "use continuous free space" or some such
[05:07] <Kamion> I don't like duplicate options
[05:08] <Kamion> and calling it "resize ... and use free space" would be confusing to say the least if it wasn't resizing anything
[05:09] <sfllaw> I'd prefer calling it "Co-exist with another operating system" or something to that effect.
[05:09] <sfllaw> Just a Do the Right Thing for a dual-boot setup.
[05:09] <Kamion> see UbuntuExpress/Partitioning
[05:10] <Kamion> that has a UI redesign that I'll get round to eventually :)
[05:10] <Kamion> sorry, UbuntuExpress/PartitioningTool
[05:11] <Kamion> the whole thing is exacerbated by partman-auto's inability to reuse an existing swap partition; fixing that would probably be more helpful to auto-resize than all the rest combined
[05:11] <sfllaw> es.
[05:11] <sfllaw> Yes.
[05:11] <sfllaw> That spec seems pretty reasonable, but the "you'll need to decide how much space" option is a bit funky.
[05:11] <sfllaw> Sharing free space might be a good plan.
[05:12] <Kamion> "sharing free space"?
[05:12] <sfllaw> Presume an Ubuntu install takes up 2-3 GB of space.
[05:12] <sfllaw> Then split the free space evenly.
[05:12] <sfllaw> We can tell how much free space is on other partitions, right?
[05:12] <Kamion> yes, but I strongly believe we need to offer that option
[05:13] <sfllaw> We should probably offer the option.
[05:13] <Kamion> it needs to have a good default, but it needs to be offered
[05:13] <sfllaw> Then perhaps the warning is unnecessary.
[05:13] <sfllaw> It sounds scary.
[05:13] <Kamion> resizing SHOULD BE SCARY
[05:13] <Kamion> :-)
[05:13] <sfllaw> You don't make the resizing sound scary.
[05:13] <sfllaw> You make the free space allocation sound scary.
[05:13] <sfllaw> :/
[05:14] <Kamion> what scary warning exactly are you talking about?
[05:14] <sfllaw> (*) Put Ubuntu alongside, so you choose a system on each startup
[05:14] <sfllaw>     If you choose this option, you'll need to decide how much space
[05:14] <sfllaw>     should be reserved for each system.
[05:15] <sfllaw> Needing to decide is bad.
[05:15] <Kamion> oh, sure, don't care about the exact text there
[05:15] <Kamion> "The implementor should feel free to decide on the exact text used in the following dialogs, in consultation with usability experts. Decisions may be influenced by translated text already available elsewhere."
[05:16] <Kamion> I think that was mpt's text
[05:17] <Kamion> removed from the spec now, thanks
[05:19] <Kamion> though, while the automatic partitioner remains a bit quirky, I think the manual partitioner is a much worse wart right now
[05:20] <sfllaw> Kamion: Is ubiquity supposed to exit with code 10?
[05:20] <Kamion> not in general ...
[05:20] <Kamion> I doubt ubiquity did, but one of its subprocesses might have done?
[05:21] <Kamion> crash dialog?
[05:21] <sfllaw> No, sorry.
[05:21] <mpt> I have yet to actually see Ubiquity in action, except in screenshots in magazines
[05:21] <sfllaw> ubiquity: ['log-output', '-t', 'ubiquity', '--pass-stdout', '/bin/partman-commit']  exited with code 10
[05:22] <sfllaw> And then it disappeared.
[05:22] <Kamion> sfllaw: that much is normal
[05:22] <Kamion> the log entry, I mean
[05:22] <Kamion> sfllaw: can I have the full log please?
[05:22] <sfllaw> Yeah.
[05:23] <sfllaw> syslog, right?
[05:23] <Kamion> (If you're doing manual partitioning, the start of partman-commit is run to get the partitioning summary. We back up out of it (exit code 10) to avoid actually committing the changes.)
[05:23] <Kamion> sfllaw: /var/log/syslog, yes. Maybe /var/log/partman too.
[05:24] <mpt> sfllaw, I wrote that text late at night about four years ago, which hopefully explains why it's not as polished as it could be :-)
[05:24] <sfllaw> You gotta watch out what to do with specs.
[05:24] <Kamion> mpt: btw, I'm going to have to take the partitioning progress bar back out of the main installation progress bar in feisty
[05:25] <Kamion> mpt: because if the migration-assistance spec comes to fruition, that needs to be slotted in after partitioning, in order to know what it's migrating from
[05:26] <mpt> That doesn't reeeeeeally make sense, because migration-assistance should work even if I'm nuking the Windows partition (e.g. by burning a CD)
[05:26] <mpt> I guess the first stage of migration-assistance assumes the Windows partition is still there?
[05:27] <Kamion> "by burning a CD"> what do you mean?
[05:27] <Kamion> migration-assistant has to have the Windows partition mounted, which is hairier than you might think if partitioning hasn't been done yet
[05:27] <sfllaw> Kamion: Sent.
[05:27] <mpt> a CD containing the files you want to migrate
[05:28] <Kamion> mpt: not remotely in the plan for migration-assistant at present
[05:28] <Kamion> it migrates by copying to the new partition. orders of magnitude simpler
[05:28] <Kamion> IMO most people wanting a simple migration assistant will want to run both systems in parallel for a bit anyway in case it fails
[05:28] <mpt> of course, and orders of magnitude less useful :-)
[05:28] <Kamion> so I'm not too concerned about the "nuking the Windows partition" use case
[05:29] <mpt> If I'm dual-booting I don't want copies of stuff that gradually get out of sync with each other, I just want easy access to the Windows partition
[05:29] <mpt> ho hum
[05:29] <sfllaw> OK.  Rebooting this box to try something else.
[05:29] <Kamion> mpt: you want the first boot of the Ubuntu side to come up with familiar settings
[05:30] <Kamion> FSVO "you"
[05:30] <Kamion> Evan's current stuff lets you choose what to copy, anyway
[05:30] <mpt> ok, so
[05:31] <mpt> 1. choose how you want to partition
[05:31] <mpt> 2. if you chose to dual-boot, ask what stuff you want to migrate
[05:31] <mpt> 3. actually do the partitioning
[05:31] <mpt> 4+5. actually do the migration and the software installation
[05:31] <Kamion> 2. involves mounting partitions in order to find out what's there
[05:32] <Kamion> I've thought about that quite hard
[05:33] <mpt> If you're going to shrink an existing partition you need to be able to mount it anyway, right?
[05:33] <Kamion> I'm not really happy with the complexity involved in mounting the partitions that aren't going to be removed, unmounting them again, doing the partitioning, mounting them again, migrating
[05:33] <Kamion> mpt: parted doesn't mount partitions in order to resize them
[05:33] <Kamion> it's more the hideous bookkeeping involved
[05:34] <mpt> well, ok, I don't pay your salary :-)
[05:34] <mpt> I'll just say, "that's a shame".
[05:34] <Kamion> mpt: do you acknowledge that there's such a thing as a first cut? :-)
[05:35] <Kamion> we can drop in complexity later, but the first iteration needs to work reliably, first and foremost
[05:35] <unfo> hi all, ubiquity crashed installing 6.06. My case is unusual: I chose French and I set it to mount my FreeBSD partition at startup. 
[05:35] <unfo> I got these errors in the log: "ubiquity: /bin/partman exited with code 1", "RuntimeError: called outside of a mainloop" at gtkui.py", line 1169, in watch_debconf_fd_helper, and more.
[05:35] <unfo>  Is this a known bug? Would anyone like to ssh in as root to debug?
[05:35] <mpt> Kamion, sure, I thought Dapper was the first cut :-)
[05:35] <Kamion> unfo: please file a bug with a cut-and-paste of the crash dump
[05:35] <Kamion> mpt: not of either the new advanced partitioner nor of the migration assistant, it wasn't
[05:36] <Kamion> unfo: also please attach /var/log/installer/syslog, /var/log/syslog, and /var/log/partman
[05:36] <mpt> ok.
[05:36] <Kamion> (you can attach files via the comment interface after filing the bug)
[05:36] <unfo> Kamion: is there a way to file bugs and include attachments by email?
[05:36] <Kamion> unfo: no.
[05:36] <Kamion> the bug tracking system can't manage that, I'm afraid :( it's a known bug
[05:36] <Kamion> unfo: FWIW I believe your bug is fixed in Edgy, but I want the crash dump to be sure
[05:37] <Burgwork> Kamion, mpt: can you put your thoughts on the m-a spec page?
[05:37] <mpt> bug 30225
[05:37] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 30225 in malone "Attach files via email" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/30225
[05:37] <Kamion> Burgwork: I've already been in extensive contact with the primary m-a developer
[05:37] <Burgwork> Kamion: ok, no worries
[05:37] <Kamion> Burgwork: he was my Google Summer of Code student
[05:38] <Burgwork> yep
[05:38] <Burgwork> and he is now my employee
[05:38] <Kamion> ah yes
[05:38] <Burgwork> anyway, I need to leave work, as it is 9pm
[05:39] <Kamion> mpt: burning a CD seems like a useful future wishlist, although rather limited :)
[05:39] <mpt> and he's sponsored for UDS, iirc
[05:39] <Kamion> yeah, I'm keen to talk to him there
[05:39] <mpt> Kamion, yeah, or DVD, or hard disk, or iPod, or whatever :-P
[05:39] <Burgwork> still browbeating work into giving me the time off
[05:39] <Burgwork> sadly
[05:40] <Kamion> "please insert DVD-R 1 of 17"
[05:40] <mpt> Incremental partition resizing!
[05:40] <Kamion> haha
[05:40] <Nafallo> lol
[05:41] <Kamion> actually they're only using about half the disk, so it's much easier to just create another big partition with all the data and copy it over, and let them delete it from the Windows side when they're comfortable ...
[05:41] <Kamion> (well, assuming hypothetically that there was video editing software on Ubuntu that they wanted to use; I haven't tried finding anything for them yet)
[05:41] <mpt> "Copied 5.8 GB of 60 GB ... Now resizing partition for the 12th time"
[05:42] <Kamion> the worst bit about that is that it would also require moving the start of the Ubuntu partition
[05:42] <Kamion> I suppose that's marginally less hair-raising if you haven't installed a boot block yet
[05:43] <Kamion> wow, awful qtparted message
[05:43] <Kamion> "You're commiting all changes. Warning, you can lost data! Make sure also that you're not commiting a busy device... In other word PLEASE UMOUNT ALL PARTITIONS before commiting changes!"
[05:44] <Kamion> (sic)
[05:44] <Kamion> oh and that's followed by "Yes" and "No" buttons
[05:44] <mpt> adding inefficiency to injury
[05:45] <mpt> I count six spelling errors in that string. Anyone get more?
[05:45] <Kamion> I count UMOUNT as jargon rather than a spelling error, but yes
[05:46] <mpt> These geeks who don't know English ... it's "dismount", not "unmount", sheesh
[05:46] <Kamion> (not defending the use of that piece of jargon there)
[05:46] <Kamion> what, "please get off all your partitions before committing changes"? you're barking. :)
[05:47] <Kamion> the correct analogy is unmounting a deer's head from your wall
[05:47] <mpt> Oh, *I'm* mad and the people who use "unmount" in user-facing strings aren't? :-)
[05:47] <Kamion> dismount is clearly wrong here. :)
[05:48] <Kamion> yes
[05:50] <unfo> Kamion: done. https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/66859
[05:50] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 66859 in ubiquity "crashes w/ errors "partman exited with code 10", "RuntimeError: called outside of a mainloop at gtkui.py:1169 in watch_debconf_fd_helper, and more" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
[05:51] <Kamion> in any case, the message above shouldn't appear at all; qtparted can easily determine that no partitions are mounted
[05:52] <unfo> (note: "ubiquity: /bin/partman exited with code 10" only appears in the log, not onscreen.)
[05:53] <Kamion> unfo: thanks. replied
[05:54] <Kamion> unfo: you should also use 6.06.1 in preference to 6.06 if you have the option; the installer is much more stable
[05:54] <unfo> Kamion: thanks for the quick reply. i will try to hit back and forward slower so as to avoid triggering it. :-)
[05:55] <mpt> Burgwork, done
[05:55] <Burgwork> mpt: thanks
[05:56] <unfo> I remember the dynamic update feature in the, IIRC, Windows 2003 CPP installer that ran at the beginning of the installer. I wonder how hard it'd be to hack such a thing into the Ubuntu liveCD.
[05:56] <unfo> *Windows 2003 Server
[05:56] <Kamion> unfo: sucks, I know, sorry
[05:57] <Kamion> unfo: if you mean something to update the installer on the fly before really running it, mvo had a go at that a while back - I keep meaning to look at it and try to merge it
[05:58] <unfo> Kamion: dont feel bad, its an excellent installer in general, and is full of nice features like gtparted. crashes happen to people occasionally - thats life.
[05:58] <unfo> Kamion: yes thats what i meant.
[06:06] <fabbione> morning
[06:07] <Nafallo> hi fabbione :-)
[06:07] <sfllaw> It doesn't even look like a normal crash.
[06:07] <fabbione> Kamion: have you been up all night??!?!??!?!?
[06:07] <Kamion> fabbione: yes
[06:08] <Kamion> my stepson has a fever too, so somebody being awake is no bad thing
[06:08] <sfllaw> That's why I'm awake.
[06:08] <sfllaw> Fever.
[06:08] <sfllaw> We are all going to be super ill after this.
[06:10] <Nafallo> man... I should just take over all your duties and send you guys to bed or something :-P
[06:10] <Kamion> s/s$//
[06:11] <ajmitch> sfllaw: that's promising for UDS
[06:11] <Kamion> DEATH PLAGUE
[06:11] <Kamion> sfllaw: ok, kubuntu amd64 rebuilding for bug 66815. I hope that's the only showstopper
[06:11] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 66815 in kubuntu-default-settings "amd64 usplash boot broken" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/66815
[06:13] <Nafallo> hmm. the reverted edgy artwork is available as a package in the archive like the rest of the suggestions I hope?
[06:13] <Kamion> sfllaw: (as before, I'll carry over other architectures)
[06:16] <fabbione> neuralis: ping?
[06:22] <sfllaw> Kamion: Showstoppers are no fun.
[06:26] <tonyyarusso> Hi, I finally got around to formally writing up a spec (my first), and am looking for feedback on the writeup to see if I'm doing it right.  (And, if you like it, looking for people to subscribe to & develop, since I only have ideas, not coding skills unfortunately.)
[06:26] <tonyyarusso> It's at https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/gaim-calendar-auto-aways
[06:28] <Nafallo> kewl idea
[06:28] <unfo> all: will the migration assistant migrate over a user's wallpaper from Windows?
[06:28] <tonyyarusso> I've just had someone suggest it might have some crossover with the work on Telepathy - anyone know if this is true / the extent of it?
[06:29] <unfo> also, how about their email POP3 server settings from Outlook Express?
[06:31] <Nafallo> unfo: don't forget to take them from thunderbird as well then ;-)
[06:33] <unfo> Nafallo: I wonder, if you did a random survey of 100 users who were about to install ubuntu: would there really be more thunderbird users than OE users? a lot of people install Ubuntu for others, not just for themselves. :-)
[06:34] <BHSPitLappy> heh
[06:34] <BHSPitLappy> true that.
[06:35] <unfo> also, I wonder if it'd be practical to support something like the Windows XP Files and Settings Transfer Wizard so that we can pull people's settings off their PCs and onto a blank CD, then migrate them over to Ubuntu when they buy a new computer.
[06:35] <unfo> that way you can migrate settings from an old XP box to a new PC.
[06:35] <Nafallo> unfo: I migrated my mother to thunderbird and firefox last time I was there and she complained :-)
[06:36] <Nafallo> complained about the shit ms gave her that is... ;-)
[06:36] <BHSPitLappy> would it be legal to migrate some of their native dll's, etc to a wine installation, as an option?
[06:37] <BHSPitLappy> Nafallo, many months ago, XP just stopped wanting to boot on my mom's PC (got messed up somehow), and my fix was installing dapper ;)
[06:38] <Nafallo> :-)
[06:38] <BHSPitLappy> so my mom's (and also just the family's) computer ran ubuntu exclusively for a long time
[06:38] <BHSPitLappy> now she got a new laptop to replace it, but I have it dual-booting
[06:38] <BHSPitLappy> and today, I caught her in ubuntu :D
[06:38] <Nafallo> I think I might have a better chance to migrate them now that they actually run open source and sees that it "just works" :-)
[06:39] <Nafallo> my father already talked quite a bit about it with me :-)
[06:39] <Kamion> BHSPitLappy: that is to some extent addressed in the existing MigrationAssistance specification (search for wine)
[06:39] <BHSPitLappy> k
[06:39] <Kamion> not legality, but whether it's a good idea (spyware vectors, etc.)
[06:39] <BHSPitLappy> Nafallo, yeah, my dad's oblivious to anything OSS related... oh well
[06:39] <unfo> wine migration sounds pretty advanced. would most people really need that?
[06:40] <Nafallo> Kamion: btw, have you planned to sleep anything until release? :-)
[06:40] <Kamion> Nafallo: maybe
[06:40] <BHSPitLappy> people that are iffy about losing some of their windows programs might.
[06:40] <Kamion> do bear in mind please that automatic migration assistance in the installer cannot do everything
[06:41] <Kamion> if you massively overload it with requirements and features, then its UI will end up too big and complex to be usable
[06:41] <tonyyarusso> Also, I'm not sure whether I should designate myself as the Drafter for the above, or if it's more appropriate for that to be someone more experienced - thoughts?
[06:42] <Kamion> tonyyarusso: specifications should generally be drafted either by somebody with sufficient technical knowledge to write it all down themselves, or by somebody who's at a meeting with people who have the technical knowledge and is acting as a secretary
[06:42] <unfo> Kamion: IMO, wallpaper, at least, is important. Where I worked, some users liked to use their own wallpaper - it made them feel like their computer was their own.
[06:42] <unfo> :)
[06:43] <Kamion> unfo: yes, that's been suggested on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MigrationAssistance
[06:44] <tonyyarusso> Kamion: Okay.  Any thoughts on the initial draft linked above so I can minimize confusion for them, whoever they may end up being?
[06:44] <Kamion> Kubuntu alternate rebuilt for new kubuntu-default-settings
[06:44] <Kamion> Kubuntu desktop and DVD building
[06:45] <Kamion> tonyyarusso: you need to get somebody with knowledge of gaim to assess feasibility and generally comment on it before anything else
[06:45] <Kamion> feature suggestions are generally best transmuted into specifications by people who know about the software, IME
[06:45] <Nafallo> tonyyarusso: seb128 is the maintainer, so that might be a good try :-)
[06:45] <tonyyarusso> Kamion: How do I find them?  -devel mailing list?
[06:45] <tonyyarusso> Nafallo: Ah, thanks.
[06:47] <Kamion> mailing lists, looking through changelogs to find out who's involved, searching for IRC channels devoted to the software in question, etc.
[06:47] <tonyyarusso> Nafallo: Um, actually, how do I contact them?  Apt-cache just lists the devel mailing list under maintainer.
[06:47] <tonyyarusso> Kamion: Okay
[06:47] <Nafallo> tonyyarusso: what Kamion said :-)
[06:57] <Kamion> I'd greatly appreciate it if anyone who can could test Kubuntu desktop and/or alternate 20061019 images to make sure that (a) usplash shows up properly and (b) there aren't any other obvious regressions
[06:57] <Kamion> I'm rsyncing it, but I need sleep first
[06:58] <keescook> Kamion: I was just testing the prior DVD release.
[06:58] <keescook> I'll grab the next one and give it a shot (usplash was busted in prior)
[06:59] <Kamion> right, that was the problem - my monitor went out of range, which is unusual for a usplash failure (normally it's just a blank screen)
[06:59] <keescook> oh! that's different.  I just had the wrong colors.
[06:59] <Kamion> ah, so there were some variations in the symptoms after all
[06:59] <keescook> any idea where things stand for bcm43xx firmware?
[06:59] <abattoir> Kamion: testing it on qemu is ok?
[07:00] <Kamion> Riddell said "failed to boot" which I think may have actually meant "wasn't patient enough" :)
[07:00] <Kamion> abattoir: can qemu do amd64?
[07:00] <abattoir> Kamion: hmm no
[07:00] <Kamion> keescook: blocked on permission from Broadcom's legal staff
[07:00] <keescook> dang, okay
[07:00] <Kamion> AIUI our enquiries have gone unanswered
[07:01] <Kamion> keescook: new amd64 DVD build is up now
[07:01] <abattoir> Kamion: i can test the alternate cd a bit later in the day, if that's ok
[07:01] <Kamion> (Kubuntu)
[07:01] <Kamion> abattoir: sure, release was ETA about ten hours from now last I heard
[07:02] <keescook> Kamion: cool, I will snag it
[07:02] <Kamion> should rsync fairly painlessly
[07:02] <abattoir> Kamion: ok, will do then :)
[07:02] <Kamion> ok, I've updated the Testing/Current matrix; bed
[07:03] <keescook> bug 33762
[07:03] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 33762 in xorg-driver-synaptics "Appletouch trackpad unbearably slow" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/33762
[07:23] <tonyyarusso> Where would I find changelogs?
[07:25] <tonyyarusso> nm, just found it.
[07:59] <pitti> Good morning
[07:59] <keescook> morning pitti
[08:07] <pitti> hey guys!
[08:11] <imbrandon> moins pitti
[08:14] <Nafallo> hi pitti :-)
[08:40] <lucas> hi
[08:40] <lucas> I did a rebuild of edgy on i386 to track FTBFS problems.
[08:40] <lucas> does ubuntu has something similar to Packages-arch-specific ?
[08:41] <lucas> (that is, a file listing the architectures a packages should be/shouldn't be built on ?)
[08:41] <minghua> lucas's Grid5000 seems quite handy :-)
[08:42] <lucas> yup
[08:42] <lucas> sorry to come up this late in the edgy release cycle btw
[08:54] <robitaille> pitti:  installed your firefox rc3.  According to the about firefox window, it is the 20060601 version of Gecko.  Is that correct?  Sounds pretty old
[08:55] <Lure> mjg59, mdz: for bug 60442 we may need to stay with workaround
[08:55] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 60442 in gnome-power "Dual / Two Batteries, shutdown on empty expansion battery. (GPM does not recognises second battery on hotplug)" [Unknown,Unknown]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/60442
[09:00] <carlos> pitti: ping
[09:01] <mdke> Kamion: awake already?
[09:02] <fabbione> mdke: he just went to sleep
[09:02] <mdke> holy shit
[09:02] <mdke> fabbione: thanks
[09:05] <tfheen> rodarvus: 09:00 <@pej> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/x11-common_1%3a7.1.1ubuntu5_amd64.deb (--unpack): trying to overwrite `/usr/share/man/man5/Xsession.5.gz', which is also in package xinit
[09:07] <pitti> carlos: pong
[09:08] <pitti> robitaille: no idea, maybe that's the date of the last ABI change or so
[09:08] <carlos> pitti: I did a mistake yesterday night and latest Edgy export has the plural form bug (bug #2322)
[09:08] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 2322 in rosetta "Truncated plural forms" [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/2322
[09:09] <carlos> pitti: I'm exporting a new version with that fixed, but it would take around 2-3 hours
[09:09] <carlos> am I late to have it in the prerelease version?
[09:09] <pitti> carlos: ah, then I'll rebuild the edgy packs this afternoon
[09:09] <pitti> carlos: it won't go into RC anyway
[09:09] <carlos> ok
[09:09] <pitti> carlos: the plan is to upload the final packs tomorrow morning
[09:10] <pitti> carlos: thus I'd like to have today's in perfect shape
[09:10] <carlos> I see
[09:10] <carlos> ok
[09:10] <carlos> pitti: I will ping you when the new version is available
[09:10] <pitti> carlos: thanks! (and nice to see that bug getting fixed)
[09:11] <HiddenWolf> (k)
[09:11] <HiddenWolf> ick
[09:11] <pitti> carlos: any chance to clean up https://launchpad.net/rosetta/imports?target=all&status=NEEDS_REVIEW&type=pot a little?
[09:11] <carlos> HiddenWolf: ;-)
[09:11] <robitaille> pitti: if you download firefox 2rc3 from mozilla.org, in the about window you get a Gecko date of 20061010.  So it's something specific to the ubuntu built
[09:12] <pitti> carlos: ah, what is the usual Rosetta turnaround time? i. e. if I add a string to Rosetta now, when will it appear in your exported tarballs?
[09:12] <carlos> pitti: I will take a look, but most of those aren't part of language packs
[09:12] <carlos> pitti: tomorrow morning
[09:12] <pitti> robitaille: hm, no idea; I did download the official source and applied our patches
[09:12] <pitti> carlos: ah, nice
[09:12] <carlos> pitti: the mirror is done after midnight (London time)
[09:12] <pitti> carlos: ah, good
[09:12] <carlos> pitti: and the export process is done after the mirror is done
[09:14] <pitti> robitaille: hmm, curious
[09:18] <robitaille> pitti:  another thing:  if you click on "get help online", you end up in the dapper section of LP for firefox
[09:20] <tonyyarusso> I announced a feature specification proposal involving gaim, telepathy, and e-mail/calendar clients earlier, but a number of new people have joined since then; is it customary to repeat things like that occasionally in here?
[09:21] <pitti> robitaille: ah, good catch!
[09:22] <tonyyarusso> seb128: I was told you maintain gaim, and so might be a good person to give feedback on overall feasibility.
[09:22] <seb128> tonyyarusso: did you register a spec about it?
[09:23] <tfheen> tonyyarusso: no, we're in the middle of releasing a release candidate, so trying to draw people's attention to anything but the release at hand is frowned upon.
[09:23] <tonyyarusso> seb128: Yes.  (https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/gaim-calendar-auto-aways)
[09:23] <tonyyarusso> tfheen: Ah, I see, so maybe bringing it up more in a couple of weeks would be better?
[09:24] <tonyyarusso> (Already sent an e-mail to the list...I guess just ignore that until after the 28th :) )
[09:24] <seb128> tonyyarusso: nice spec, I doubt we work on it though
[09:25] <tfheen> tonyyarusso: yes, in > 1 week you can discuss it as much as you like for what I care. :-)  But not now.
[09:25] <tfheen> hello Hobbsee 
[09:25] <tonyyarusso> seb128: Do you mean now, or work on it at all?
[09:25] <seb128> tonyyarusso: any time soon
[09:25] <tonyyarusso> tfheen: Okay.
[09:25] <pitti> robitaille: right, this is easily fixed, doing now
[09:25] <tonyyarusso> seb128: All right.  Well, maybe I'll get lucky and someone will take interest later.
[09:25] <Hobbsee> hey tfheen!
[09:26] <seb128> tonyyarusso: it's a corner feature request, we have zillion of things we are likely to be wanting to do before hacking on that
[09:26] <tfheen> Hobbsee: soon, I hope.  I need to set up a bit of thingabobing to make IRC work from the old machine.
[09:26] <seb128> hum
[09:26] <Hobbsee> tfheen: ahhhhh
[09:26] <seb128> is rsync server supposed to work?
[09:28] <robitaille> pitti:  everything looks fine; been trying that firefox for my usual surfing tonight, and I didn't see any other obvious problems 
[09:29] <tfheen> hng, I rsynced the wrong ISO
[09:31] <Hobbsee> tfheen: where are our current RC iso's?  not rsyncs?
[09:31] <tfheen> seb128: rsync works fine for me, at least.
[09:31] <seb128> grumpf
[09:31] <pitti> robitaille: cool! that makes it six success stories and no reported regressions so far
[09:31] <seb128> "rsync: connection unexpectedly closed (0 bytes received so far) [receiver] 
[09:31] <seb128> rsync error: error in rsync protocol data stream (code 12) at io.c(463) [receiver=2.6.8] 
[09:31] <seb128> "
[09:31] <tfheen> Hobbsee: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Current has the versions, cdimage.u.c has the images, as usual.
[09:31] <fabbione> seb128: how many parallel sessions are you running?
[09:31] <tfheen> seb128: you can't do more than one rsync at a time.
[09:31] <seb128> I've none running
[09:31] <tfheen> might need it to time out, then.
[09:32] <fabbione> seb128: then it's probably a previous session hanging.. it doesn't take long to timeout
[09:32] <seb128> k
[09:32] <fabbione> seb128: otherwise tell me what ISO you need and i can put it somewhere rsyncable for you
[09:32] <seb128> if somebody wants to take edubuntu DVD amd64 I don't have the bandwith to download it (it's going to take like 10 hours to download)
[09:33] <seb128> fabbione: let's wait a few min, I'm trying to continue on the i386 edubuntu DVD
[09:33] <fabbione> oh DVD.. ok
[09:33] <tfheen> seb128: I'll trade you kubuntu-alternate for it?
[09:33] <seb128> I started yesterday but it stopped in the middle of the night :/
[09:33] <seb128> tfheen: works for me, kubuntu-alternate on what arch? amd64?
[09:33] <tfheen> seb128: i386
[09:34] <seb128> ok
[09:34] <seb128> thank you
[09:34] <Hobbsee> tfheen: thanks a lot
[09:36] <fabbione> tfheen: this time i beat you.. got access to a fast machine on real gigabit :)
[09:36] <tfheen> fabbione: this is the box I'm sitting on.
[09:37] <tfheen> fabbione: I have access to boxes on gbit too, but those are 500kms away, so useless for burning DVDs.
[09:37] <fabbione> right.. well.. DVD's suck anyway :)
[09:37] <tfheen> you'd prefer if we released blu-ray images?
[09:37] <fabbione> yeah
[09:49] <minghua> Does anyone know why http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/MD5SUMS only has the powerpc one?
[09:52] <fabbione> minghua: sorry i am still calculating manually the others.. it might take a while to parse 1.4GB of data manually...
[09:52] <fabbione> like a few years
[09:53] <minghua> :-)
[09:53] <cbx33> ping seb128 
[09:53] <tfheen> minghua: probably because only powerpc was rebuilt.
[09:53] <tfheen> minghua: we'll fix it up for the RC.
[09:54] <minghua> tfheen: thanks
[09:54] <tonyyarusso> ogra: What's DLT?
[09:55] <ogra> tonyyarusso, http://www.dlttape.com/products/media/DLTtapeS4/index.aspx
[09:56] <ogra> blue-ray disks ... tsk ...
[09:56] <Spads> no
[09:56] <Spads> blu-ray!
[09:56] <Spads> haha
[09:56] <carlos> mdke: ping
[10:08] <Hobbsee> pitti: MOTU is depreciated
[10:08] <pitti> Hobbsee: ah, I see
[10:08] <Hobbsee> pitti: also, u-u-s has made MOTU depreciated too, but it seems that people assign things to MOTU out of habit.  *shrug*
[10:10] <mdz> morning
[10:10] <ajmitch> because assigning/subscribing 'motu' gets them on the universe-bugs list
[10:10] <pitti> hey mdz
[10:10] <ajmitch> since we haven't managed to mass-set bug contacts for universe packages
[10:10] <ajmitch> hi mdz, pitti :)
[10:11] <fabbione> morning mdz
[10:12] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: ahh
[10:16] <tfheen> mdz: Kamion noticed that we completely forgot about ReleaseChecklist, so I'm going through that now.
[10:19] <mdz> tfheen: i mentioned base-files/lsb-release last night; was my client disconnected at the time?
[10:19] <mdz> xchat isn't very good about informing one of that situation
[10:19] <mdz> tfheen: please merge ReleaseChecklist into ReleaseCandidateProcess
[10:19] <tfheen> mdz: I'll do that once the RC is out.
[10:19] <tfheen> it needs to go into ReleaseProcess too.
[10:20] <tfheen> (or at least, I'd like us to have the checks there too)
[10:20] <tfheen> I can't see base-files mentioned in lastlog at least.
[10:21] <tfheen> anyway, fixed version uploaded now.
[10:21] <mdz> Oct 18 23:49:22 <mdz_>  tfheen: eek, we forgot to update base-files, lsb-release etc.
[10:21] <mdz> Oct 18 23:49:44 <mdz_>  tfheen: that needs to go in the process doc
[10:21] <mdz> Oct 18 23:49:53 <mdz_>  I need to dash to get the tube back to the hotel, will be back on from there
[10:21] <mdz> Oct 19 00:11:23 *       Disconnected ().
[10:21] <mdz> guess i wasn't connected
[10:22] <mdz> tfheen: I don't think it's necessary to rebuild RC for those
[10:22] <tfheen> agreed, but they should go into release.
[10:22] <mdz> definitely
[10:22] <tfheen> so better to upload now than forget about it again
[10:22] <tfheen> they'll just languish in the unapproved queue for a day or so
[10:22] <mdz> tfheen: releasechecklist claims to be applicable to beta as well, though I think most of the relevant bits are already in betaprocess
[10:23] <tfheen> mdz: I'll go through and clean up all those on the 27th.
[10:24] <tfheen> print them out, sit down with a pen and see what edits are needed.
[10:28] <pitti> sfllaw: I just did alternate/amd64/autoresize, FYI
[10:35] <sfllaw> pitti: Oh good.
[10:35] <sfllaw> pitti: I couldn't get it to offer me the option.
[10:35] <sabdfl> moin moin all
[10:35] <lifeless> moining
[10:35] <ogra> hey sabdfl 
[10:35] <pitti> hey sabdfl
[10:36] <sabdfl> it's spec season!
[10:36] <sabdfl> for me at least :-)
[10:36] <pitti> sfllaw: I'll do a real-hardware desktop/amd64 installation now and I'll try to get auto-resizing
[10:36] <pitti> sfllaw: it seems easier if the large partition is on a logical partition
[10:39] <mdz> sabdfl: in this channel it's release season ;-)
[10:45] <ajmitch> sabdfl: don't worry, we've started cooking up a good batch of specs to talk over in a couple of weeks :)
[10:48] <sabdfl> ajmitch: registered & proposed for UDS, right?
[10:48] <ajmitch> of course
[10:49] <sivang> morning
[10:49] <ajmitch> hi sivang 
[10:54] <ogra> Kamion, the rescue mode executes /bin/sh in the target filesystem ?
[10:55] <tonyyarusso> sabdfl: May I ask, when a spec is submitted for UDS consideration, what exactly happens next?
[10:56] <ogra> Kamion, shouldnt that rather be /bin/bash ?
[10:56] <tonyyarusso> (And is there a deadline that they would need to be submitted in launchpad to make it?)
[10:57] <Mirv> if I'm hoping to have five new packages from Debian, to be included in main in feisty, should I do a spec about it or just first get them in universe and then ask for promotion to main separately?
[10:57] <ogra> Mirv, the latter
[10:57] <sivang> Mirv: what are they going to be of?
[10:57] <Mirv> ogra: thanks. 
[10:58] <Mirv> sivang: the first really working (tm) Finnish spellchecker, which has been worked on for a year or so, and has just landed (4 of 5 packages) in Debian unstable
[10:58] <Mirv> I mean, really working open source spellchecker
[10:59] <sivang> sounds nice.
[10:59] <minghua> the one with a strange name (voikoo?)?
[11:00] <Mirv> minghua: yes, libvoikko :) and tmispell-voikko (ispell and enchant compatibility) plus openoffice.org-voikko. and libvoikko needs suomi-malaga, which a description of Finnish morphology, written in malaga
[11:00] <Mirv> so there are the 5 packages
[11:01] <fabbione> Mirv: they will for sure land in universe when feisty open
[11:01] <minghua> Mirv: thanks for the explanation
[11:01] <fabbione> Mirv: to get them into main it's a bit more comples.. you will need to look at MIR and provide proper reasoning for main inclusion
[11:02] <dholbach> good morning
[11:03] <sivang> morning dholbach !
[11:03] <Mirv> fabbione: yes I know it's going to take some time, that's why I'm asking these things early. optimally it should be part of language-support-fi meta-package in feisty, but we'll see what's needed for that.
[11:07] <Mirv> ah, main inclusion review, took some time
[11:07] <pitti> Mirv: ?
[11:09] <mdz> tonyyarusso: as noted in the announcement, what happens is that the organizers will review the proposals according to the published guidelines and create the agenda
[11:10] <mdz> tonyyarusso: the deadline is this Sunday the 22nd
[11:10] <tonyyarusso> mdz: Ah, thank you.  And are they accepted/rejected before the summit starts, or is that how it begins?
[11:11] <mdz> tonyyarusso: the former
[11:11] <tonyyarusso> mdz: Okay.
[11:11] <mdz> tonyyarusso: are you attending the summit?
[11:12] <tonyyarusso> mdz: No - just submitting ideas.  I don't have the time, finances, or technical knowledge for actually attending (although it would be really interesting!).
[11:12] <pitti> mdz: ugh, that's a pretty tough deadline; can't we extend it until after the release?
[11:13] <mdz> pitti: do you realize how soon the summit starts after the release? :-)
[11:13] <tfheen> seconding pitti; there's no way I can write up sensible spec ideas before sunday.
[11:13] <ogra> ++
[11:13] <pitti> mdz: yes, I do
[11:13] <tfheen> unless you have a time pocket I can grab a couple of days out of.
[11:13] <pitti> mdz: but I'm not sure whether the distro team is in a good mood for spec writing...
[11:14] <mdz> I don't, but I do have plenty of specs
[11:14] <pitti> ok, good to know, tomorrow/Monday should be ok for writing specs
[11:14] <pitti> thanks for the reminder
[11:15] <mdz> if history is a guide, there are already nearly as many topics on the agenda as we can expect to cover
[11:15] <pitti> ugh
[11:15] <mdz> in Paris there were 173
[11:16] <mdz> less than half ever went anywhere
[11:16] <pitti> so we should hurry up to actually get things covered
[11:19] <cbx33> ogra: are you handling the scp spec?
[11:20] <ogra> feel free :)
[11:20] <cbx33> yikes
[11:20] <cbx33> when is the deadline for specs?
[11:20] <Lo-lan-do> Hi there -- question about Ubuntu: how are packages going into Universe selected?
[11:21] <cbx33> Lo-lan-do: submit them to REVU
[11:21] <tfheen> Lo-lan-do: everything from Debian + various other sources, including direct upload.
[11:21] <cbx33> revu.tauware.de
[11:21] <Lo-lan-do> Direct import from Debian?
[11:21] <tfheen> Lo-lan-do: yes.
[11:22] <tonyyarusso> cbx33: Well, they just told me this Sunday.  Better hurry!
[11:22] <cbx33> flippidy jippidy
[11:22] <Lo-lan-do> Okay.  No QA then?
[11:22] <cbx33> Lo-lan-do for new pacakges?
[11:22] <cbx33> or ones already in debian?
[11:22] <Lo-lan-do> Ones already in Debian.
[11:23] <seb128> Lo-lan-do: what do you mean by "No QA"?
[11:23] <cbx33> Quality Assurance I guessed?
[11:23] <seb128> Lo-lan-do: some people fix bugs for those too :)
[11:23] <Lo-lan-do> No testing before upload?
[11:23] <seb128> cbx33: I know what QA means, thank you
[11:24] <tfheen> Lo-lan-do: they're synced directly if they haven't changed in Ubuntu, yes.
[11:24] <seb128> Lo-lan-do: no, if they are good enough for Debian we usually consider them good enough for Ubuntu too
[11:24] <azeem> Lo-lan-do: buildd uploads aren't tested before upload in debian, either
[11:24] <cbx33> seb128 sorry
[11:24] <Lo-lan-do> My main beef is with Ubuntu bug #66537
[11:24] <cbx33> I didn't mean that :p
[11:24] <Lo-lan-do> The package works in Debian, but breaks in Ubuntu.
[11:25] <Lo-lan-do> I mean, it prevents the program from even starting.
[11:26] <Lo-lan-do> I could of course choose to ignore these bugs since they don't concern Debian -- no big decision to make, since I'm not even told about them.
[11:27] <Lo-lan-do> The problem is that people have no contact address for these packages.
[11:28] <Lo-lan-do> They only have my name, and I don't think it's appropriate for me to be held responsible for brokenness I'm not involved with (or aware of).
[11:28] <cbx33> Lo-lan-do are you down as the maintainer?
[11:28] <azeem> the contact are the universe maintainers
[11:28] <tkamppeter> hi doko, are you there?
[11:28] <Lo-lan-do> cbx33: Apparently, yes, since the package was slurped unmodified into Ubuntu.
[11:29] <cbx33> can you link me to the page on LP?
[11:29] <cbx33> for the package?
[11:29] <tfheen> Lo-lan-do: we put X-original-maintainer: $debian_maintainer for all packages built now though, and force Maintainer to be ubuntu-devel.
[11:29] <tkamppeter> doko_, ping
[11:30] <Lo-lan-do> azeem: Maybe that should be advertised more?  The poor guy had to google my name, and only found my professional address.
[11:30] <cbx33> in an alternate install, if there is not enough room to resize is the option removed?
[11:30] <azeem> Lo-lan-do: this is transitional
[11:30] <tfheen> cbx33: yes.
[11:31] <azeem> seems it last got synced in June, the next sync won't have you as maintainer anymore
[11:31] <Lo-lan-do> (With the amusing side effect that my reputation is hurt because of something completely automated causing problems I'm not even told of)
[11:31] <Lo-lan-do> azeem: Oh, good.  So you're rebuilding all packages now?
[11:32] <azeem> Lo-lan-do: I don't
[11:32] <Lo-lan-do> "You" as in "Ubuntu" :-)
[11:32] <seb128> Lo-lan-do: no, we don't do a massive rebuild now, that will be changed next time an upload is done for the package
[11:32] <azeem> I assume they will all get rebuild at some point and this problem will go away
[11:32] <Lo-lan-do> Okay.
[11:33] <Lo-lan-do> When do these syncs usually happen?
[11:34] <seb128> Lo-lan-do: edgy is frozen now, after edgy, something like 3 weeks from now probably
[11:34] <Lo-lan-do> I see.
[11:34] <seb128> Lo-lan-do: we can do a rebuild upload of your package if you want though
[11:35] <Lo-lan-do> Is there any chance this particular bug could be fixed for edgy?
[11:35] <seb128> I'll do that between RC and edgy
[11:35] <seb128> if somebody has an idea on the issue yes
[11:35] <seb128> I don't for my part and I don't use that package
[11:35] <seb128> I'm fine with applying a patch or rebuilding, I will not spend time learning about the software to debug the issue though
[11:36] <Lo-lan-do> I'd gladly provide a patch, but... well, the package works in Debian.
[11:36] <seb128> maybe a rebuild would fix it
[11:37] <seb128> let me give it a try
[11:37] <cbx33> ping sfllaw 
[11:38] <sivang> malone #66537
[11:38] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 66537 in kino "kinoplus 0.3.5-3 breaks kino 0.9" [Unknown,Unknown]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/66537
[11:38] <seb128> hum
[11:39] <seb128> Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
[11:39] <seb128> [Switching to Thread 47029115933104 (LWP 11196)] 
[11:39] <seb128> 0x0000000000fd3b90 in ?? ()
[11:39] <seb128> (gdb) bt
[11:39] <seb128> #0  0x0000000000fd3b90 in ?? ()
[11:39] <seb128> #1  0x00000000004a0f86 in GDKImageCreateRepository::Register ()
[11:39] <seb128> #2  0x000000000048d83c in PluginImageCreateRepository::InstallPlugins ()
[11:39] <seb128> after a bunch of
[11:39] <seb128> "(kino:11196): Gnome-CRITICAL **: gnome_program_get_app_id: assertion `program != NULL' failed
[11:39] <seb128> (kino:11196): GLib-CRITICAL **: g_string_prepend: assertion `val != NULL' failed
[11:39] <seb128> "
[11:39] <Lo-lan-do> Can I get a changelog for an Ubuntu package?
[11:39] <seb128> after ">>> Image Filter: Superposition"
[11:41] <minghua> Lo-lan-do: which one?  for kinoplus there is no changes in source package
[11:42] <Lo-lan-do> kino, actually.   Since there seem to have been Ubuntu-specific changes, I suspect the cause of the bug is in there.
[11:43] <seb128> kino (0.90-1ubuntu2) edgy; urgency=low
[11:43] <seb128>   * add 70_fix_builderror to fix ftbfs (debian bug #377174)
[11:43] <seb128>  -- Oliver Grawert <ogra@ubuntu.com>  Sun, 16 Jul 2006 18:38:40 +0200
[11:43] <seb128> kino (0.90-1ubuntu1) edgy; urgency=low
[11:43] <seb128>   * Merge from debian unstable, remaining changes:
[11:43] <seb128>     - install udev rules according to Ubuntu policy,
[11:43] <Lo-lan-do> Ah, anyway.  Thanks for the info, I'll explain all that to the submitter.
[11:43] <seb128>     - drop dependency on libavcodec.
[11:43] <Ubugtu> Debian bug 377174 in kino "FTBFS with GCC 4.2: C/C++ linkage declarations conflict" [Unknown,Closed]  http://bugs.debian.org/377174
[11:43] <seb128>  -- Scott James Remnant <scott@ubuntu.com>  Mon, 10 Jul 2006 15:41:22 +0100
[11:43] <seb128> 
[11:43] <seb128> those are the changes
[11:43] <Lo-lan-do> Something's wicked then.  Oh well.
[11:44] <minghua> Lo-lan-do: http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/main/k/kino/kino_0.90-1ubuntu2/changelog
[11:44] <Lo-lan-do> minghua: Thanks.
[11:44] <Lo-lan-do> See you :-)
[11:44] <seb128> Lo-lan-do: I'm doing a debug build of kinoplus if you are interested to the bt
[11:46] <sfllaw> cbx33: Yo.
[11:46] <cbx33> sfllaw: just a quick question - in the testing plan - why do not test LVM installs?
[11:46] <cbx33> I know it would make the matrix twice as big
[11:46] <cbx33> just curious is all
[11:46] <tfheen> rodarvus: have you had a chance to do any of your installation testing?
[12:00] <Riddell> Kamion: I seem to have a complete new set of CDs to test, not just amd64
[12:02] <snail> I'm seeing that today's build of edubuntu thinks I have a US keyboard rather than a UK one. " and @ are exchanged
[12:02] <snail> is this normal?
[12:02] <ogra> snail, on a thin client or in the normal desktop ?
[12:03] <snail> normal desktop
[12:03] <snail> this is the live cd
[12:03] <snail> haven't done the install yet
[12:04] <tfheen> Riddell: md5sum should be the same for everything not rebuilt.
[12:04] <ogra> heh, and i havent done the liveCd yet :)
[12:04] <sfllaw> cbx33: We don't really use LVM any more.
[12:04] <tfheen> ogra: amd64 live dvd seems good, I'm testing the installation now.
[12:04] <pitti> Kamion: ubiuity keyboard selector: on ppc I get a second list with alternative keyboards (like nodeadkeys, dvorak, international, etc.), on amd64 I just get the left list with the countries; is that intentional/known/a bug?
[12:04] <ogra> tfheen, cool ...
[12:04] <Riddell> tfheen: cool
[12:05] <ogra> i'm still waiting for my DVD iso to come down the drain 
[12:05] <dholbach> sfllaw: don't tell that fabbione
[12:05] <fabbione> sfllaw: you nuts?
[12:05] <fabbione> cbx33: LVM is only on alternate and manual partitioning..
[12:06] <tfheen> : tfheen@lithium ..om/www/full/kubuntu/daily > md5sum 20061017.1/edgy-alternate-i386.iso 20061019/edgy-alternate-i386.iso
[12:06] <tfheen> 5a7d963f317ab57bee1108a1c2a786ad  20061017.1/edgy-alternate-i386.iso
[12:06] <tfheen> 5a7d963f317ab57bee1108a1c2a786ad  20061019/edgy-alternate-i386.iso
[12:06] <tfheen> : tfheen@lithium ..om/www/full/kubuntu/daily >
[12:06] <tfheen> Riddell: ^^
[12:14] <tfheen> seb128: what's the gnome-settings-daemon fails to start in some live session bugs?
[12:14] <tfheen> s/bugs/bug/
[12:14] <tfheen> as in, what's the bug #?
[12:14] <seb128> tfheen: there is none
[12:14] <seb128> nobody opened a bug about it
[12:15] <tfheen> dbus is the right package?
[12:15] <seb128> tfheen: if the bug is actually the timeout issue, yes
[12:16] <tfheen> I think it is; the timeout was never actually increased, was it?
[12:16] <seb128> tfheen: in fact https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/dbus/+bug/62763
[12:16] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62763 in dbus "dbus activation timeout too short" [Low,Fix released]  
[12:16] <seb128> tfheen: right, patch was not correct
[12:16] <seb128> it has to be reopened probably
[12:18] <seb128> is the usplash supposed to have the old style with a weird progress bar on amd64 now?
[12:19] <mvo> tfheen: are you currently editing Testing/Current?
[12:19] <seb128> weird like with no background color
[12:19] <tfheen> mvo: yes
[12:19] <tfheen> seb128: reopened
[12:20] <seb128> tfheen: ok
[12:20] <tfheen> bah, slomo beat me to it
[12:20] <cbx33> fabbione, do we not consider LVM the way forward then?
[12:21] <fabbione> cbx33: well not everybody does
[12:21] <slomo> tfheen: sorry... at the moment i saw seb128 pasting the url again i remembered that we had a bug about it and reopened it ;)
[12:21] <cbx33> fabbione, I'm just intrigued is all...
[12:21] <cbx33> I heard a lot of ruckuss a year or so ago about LVM...oh it's FANTASTIC
[12:21] <fabbione> cbx33: i do test LVM always..
[12:21] <cbx33> was just interested in where "Ubuntu" fell
[12:22] <fabbione> cbx33: there is an "erase disk and use LVM" option in alternate installer
[12:22] <cbx33> I like it, I think it's great, but it's easy to bugger up
[12:22] <cbx33> yeh just running it now
[12:22] <fabbione> LVM is not a simple thing to work with. there are tons of corner cases and we decided to keep it simple to some extents
[12:23] <fabbione> if you want a complex LVM config you need to go manual partitioning
[12:23] <cbx33> yeh, is there a nice gui for lvm yet?
[12:23] <tfheen> cbx33: evmsgui
[12:23] <fabbione> no
[12:24] <cbx33> the worst part when I was new to LVM was trying to recover data off an LVM partition when I knew nothing about LVM :0
[12:25] <cbx33> it would be great to be able to just plug a new HDD in and for ubuntu to detect it and ask the user if they wanted to expand their system onto it
[12:25] <cbx33> ;)
[12:25] <fabbione> tfheen: testing alternate/i386/cli install
[12:29] <pitti> Kamion: nevermind my keyboard question, that was PEBCAK)
[12:31] <fabbione> StevenK: nope
[12:33] <cbx33> fabbione we used to in dapper no?
[12:33] <fabbione> no
[12:38] <sivang> slomo_: !
[12:39] <slomo_> hi sivang 
[12:39] <pitti> hi slomo_
[12:39] <slomo_> hi pitti 
[12:39] <snail> is there a package which counters machines trying to brute-force their way in via ssh?
[12:41] <cbx33> why can't gimp easily print
[12:48] <rodarvus> tfheen, no, I received Simon's email last evening. I'm syncing my images right now
[12:48] <sfllaw> rodarvus: Thanks.
[12:48] <lifeless> snail: what do you mean
[12:48] <rodarvus> cd image is ready, but dvd image will take a few hours to be downloaded
[12:48] <sfllaw> rodarvus: dholbach has volunteered to do the DVD, because you have low bandwidth.
[12:48] <rodarvus> nice :)
[12:48] <sfllaw> Can you pull in another CD, though?
[12:48] <rodarvus> *nod*
[12:48] <rodarvus> doing it now
[12:49] <sfllaw> Can you pull Edubuntu i386?
[12:49] <sfllaw> That way, dholbach can do less.
[12:49] <sfllaw> He's got a lot of PPC stuff.
[12:49] <snail> lifeless: logs show lots of repeated ssh connection attempts from machines I've never heard of. presumably they're trying common suernames and common passwords. I'd like to detect and block them
[12:49] <dholbach> sfllaw: I'll need to try it
[12:50] <sfllaw> dholbach: Ubuntu i386 DVD?
[12:50] <rodarvus> sfllaw, sure, I'll do edubuntu i386 too
[12:50] <dholbach> sfllaw: yes, ppc dvd - if it works
[12:50] <sfllaw> dholbach: Yes, thanks.  I meant your doing Ubuntu i386 DVD, instead of rodarvus as you volunteered to do in the other channel.
[12:51] <snail> lifeless: something like http://www.pettingers.org/code/sshblack.html
[12:51] <dholbach> alrighty
[12:51] <sfllaw> OK.
[12:51] <sfllaw> Updating Testing/Current.
[12:52] <sfllaw> dholbach: I'll find someone to do the PPC DVD.
[12:52] <sfllaw> mdz: We don't have enough people with fast connexions and working PPCs.
[12:52] <sfllaw> mdz: I'm trying to get my hands on one here in Montreal.
[12:52] <mdz> perhaps we shouldn't release powerpc DVDs
[12:53] <mdz> there are probably more test installs than downloads for them :-P
[12:53] <sfllaw> I think jbailey has already promised that it would work for a machine.
[12:53] <sfllaw> And that machine only installs off of netboot and DVD.
[12:53] <sfllaw> It's specialized, though.
[12:54] <sfllaw> Uses its own initramfs.
[12:55] <mdz> I'm perfectly happy to defer release of those images if that's the blocker
[12:55] <mdz> it looks like i386 ubuntu/kubuntu/edubuntu DVDs need help as well though
[12:55] <sfllaw> Anything to do with DVD is bad.
[12:55] <mdz> I'm going to do them all in vmware here
[12:55] <sfllaw> Great.  I'm going to have images for those by the end of tomorrow.
[12:56] <sfllaw> So I can do some testing here in Mtl.
[12:56] <sfllaw> By tomorrow, I mean today.
[12:57] <sfllaw> I have the physical resources to do most i386 and amd64 testing, if I have to.
[12:57] <sfllaw> But I can't do anything to pick up the slack for PPC.
[12:58] <sfllaw> (Who isn't here.)
[12:58] <sfllaw> ogra: Thanks for doing Edubuntu PPC testing on CDs.
[12:58] <sfllaw> ogra: Can you pull down DVDs as well?
[12:59] <ogra> on it ...
[12:59] <sfllaw> Hurray.
[12:59] <ogra> but my bandwith sucks
[12:59] <sfllaw> Everyone's does, apparently.
[12:59] <dholbach> I'd love to upgrade to 16 Mbit
[12:59] <ogra> so that may take some more time ... edubuntu install are all fine on all arches ... i'll do live testing as well as long as i wait for the DVD
[12:59] <dholbach> the only problem I see is that they will fuckup and I'll end up with 2 weeks without internet at all
[01:00] <sfllaw> dholbach: Yeah, you need to have both active for a while.
[01:00] <sfllaw> And cut over.
[01:00] <sfllaw> Which is $$$.
[01:00] <doko_> tfheen: was the kubuntu DVD updated tonight?
[01:00] <sfllaw> doko_: Yes, for amd64.
[01:00] <sfllaw> doko_: Sorry.
[01:00] <dholbach> Or I could work for two weeks from doko_'s place
[01:00] <dholbach> and have Sushi at the place in his street
[01:00] <sfllaw> Mmm.
[01:00] <sfllaw> But then you have to live with doko.
[01:00] <dholbach> . o O { *ponder* }
[01:00] <sfllaw> ;)
[01:01] <doko_> dholbach: I thought you would be cooking ... ;-p
[01:01] <dholbach> He has a HUGE place - I doubt I'd even notice him around ;)
[01:01] <mdz> doko_: the rsync delta from yesterday should be tiny
[01:01] <dholbach> doko_: hahahaha
[01:01] <sfllaw> dholbach: Can you cook?
[01:01] <doko_> mdz: sure, testing again ...
[01:01] <sfllaw> dholbach: I know you're a musician, which could be useful to have around.
[01:01] <dholbach> sfllaw: nobody cried at table yet - and I'm quite happy with it :)
[01:02] <sfllaw> If we ever get a hotel with a kitchen, we should totally whip stuff up.
[01:02] <mdz> tfheen: we can pre-publish the CD ISOs as soon as they're tested; we should aim for that first
[01:02] <dholbach> sfllaw: no no no no - I'm not that musical
[01:02] <sfllaw> dholbach: DJing?
[01:02] <dholbach> yeah, that's better :)
[01:03] <elmo> seb128: why is totem-mozilla so hateful?
[01:03] <sfllaw> dholbach: I respect that.
[01:03] <seb128> elmo: what is it doing now? 
[01:04] <mdz> what's the rune to start expert mode in d-i?
[01:04] <elmo> seb128: it's claiming to own RTSP streams, but all it does is popup a box saying "haha, I can't RTSP yet, sucks to be you".  this is less than helpful when realplayer's installed
[01:04] <sfllaw> F6 F6.
[01:04] <seb128> elmo: do you have an URL example?
[01:04] <sfllaw> mdz: ^^
[01:05] <sfllaw> mdz: I opened a bug saying we should document that.  :/
[01:05] <mdz> sfllaw: wow, that's more cryptic than I expected
[01:05] <mdz> sfllaw: please target that bug for final
[01:05] <cbx33> I found it once by accident
[01:05] <cbx33> sat on the keyboard
[01:06] <jsgotangco> wah?
[01:06] <mdz> tfheen: I think we're almost ready to pre-publish Ubuntu CDs
[01:07] <ogra> oh, funny ... i can write CDs from a mounted thin client device ... 
[01:07] <sladen> cbx33: ?!
[01:07] <jsgotangco> ogra: wow
[01:07] <cbx33> sladen: there you are :p
[01:07] <Nafallo> ogra: kewl :-)
[01:07] <cbx33> did you get my email?
[01:08] <elmo> seb128: http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/radio2.shtml
[01:08] <ogra> well, the device is only the source :) the CD writer is in the server 
[01:08] <cbx33> ogra: nice - it burns on the server I presume
[01:08] <sladen> cbx33: and talking of which, are you in Southampton and need your key signing?  I'll swap a signature for a soldering iron to fix my Thinkpad PSU connector!
[01:08] <cbx33> hehe
[01:08] <ogra> cbx33, indeed
[01:08] <seb128> elmo: ah, right, funny :)
[01:08] <cbx33> sladen....didn't you get my email?
[01:08] <ogra> cbx33, for that we'll need pygis libburn
[01:08] <cbx33> ogra: that's what I thought
[01:08] <cbx33> ogra scp chat before sunday? - possible?
[01:08] <ogra> sure
[01:09] <ogra> just not today
[01:09] <cbx33> EXCELLENT
[01:09] <seb128> elmo: I'll have a loot at making it not claim the mimetype so you can use realplayer
[01:09] <cbx33> I have some cool ideas
[01:09] <seb128> elmo: could you open a bug on totem please?
[01:09] <elmo> seb128: yep, will do
[01:10] <seb128> elmo: thank you
[01:10] <fabbione> hey elmo 
[01:10] <ogra> cbx33, please try to capitalize SCP if we talk about it in here or make it distinctive from scp in another way to not confuse everybody :)
[01:10] <cbx33> stuconpan
[01:10] <ogra> heh
[01:11] <seb128> cbx33: change your password now :p
[01:11] <elmo> hey fabbione 
[01:11] <seb128> ah, no, it was a word for SCP :)
[01:12] <ogra> yeah :)
[01:12] <cbx33> can we have a new name for it
[01:12] <cbx33> :p
[01:12] <cbx33> something cool like ubiquity
[01:12] <jsgotangco> cbx33: funny
[01:14] <ogra> oh, the bounbcing progress is broken for me on ppc live
[01:16] <cbx33> confused me
[01:16] <cbx33> i'd never seen it before
[01:16] <ogra> well, me neither
[01:16] <dholbach> seb128: I have a ubuntu-docs upload in the pipeline - it's the "sebonator release" - it has 200 .omf files - just for you :-)
[01:16] <cbx33> and all of a sudden I had no idea how long it was gonna be :p
[01:16] <ogra> and dure to the bug i couldnt see it now as well
[01:17] <ogra> keescook, are you sure you saw 66726 on your ppc kubuntu dvd test ?
[01:18] <seb128> dholbach: rock on ;)
[01:18] <fabbione> can somebody test Alternate CD, auto-resize ubuntu cd i386 ?
[01:18] <fabbione> i don't have the setup for it
[01:18] <seb128> dholbach: so it was a bug :)
[01:18] <dholbach> seb128: still seems broken though
[01:18] <cbx33> ogra I have a possible new name for SCP - Pupil Fun Destroyer
[01:18] <ogra> i still like teachers-pet :)
[01:19] <mdz> fabbione: already am
[01:19] <Nafallo> SCP? student control panel?
[01:19] <jsgotangco> yeah
[01:19] <seb128> dholbach: oh?
[01:19] <Nafallo> my thoughts went for ssh ;-)
[01:19] <jsgotangco> rename it the pupilator or something
[01:19] <fabbione> mdz: ok.. i have almost done with expert mode and that shouldcover all x86/alternate
[01:19] <ogra> Nafallo, thats the problem with the abbrev. :)
[01:20] <Nafallo> ogra: then don't abbreviate it ;-)
[01:20] <mdz> fabbione: oh, wait, I have manual and expert/LVM
[01:20] <mdz> I can do an auto-resize though
[01:20] <fabbione> i have done manual
[01:20] <tonyyarusso> Do we have a teacher control panel to go with that?  (Something that could monitor a class worth of terminal through thumbnails of VNC sessions or the like?)
[01:20] <mdz> I'll cancel my manual since you've done it
[01:20] <mdz> and the partitioning step has worked fine
[01:20] <fabbione> mdz: i can test LVM with netinstall
[01:21] <ogra> Nafallo, the name is way to long to write it all the time
[01:21] <pitti> uh, nvidia-glx-config is broken now: it does 'modprobe nvidia' and checks the result before writing xorg.conf, and modprobe nvidia checks xorg.conf before loading - yay deadlock
[01:21] <Nafallo> ogra: add a .desktop then ;-)
[01:21] <pitti> fabbione: ^ is that known already or shall I file a bug?
[01:22] <ogra> Nafallo, i mean discussing it, it has a .desktop file :)
[01:22] <fabbione> pitti: i dunno.. that's a regression introduced by all the recent changes to l-r-m
[01:22] <Nafallo> :-)
[01:22] <fabbione> pitti: nvidia-glx ALWAYS did that check
[01:23] <pitti> fabbione: I know, I wasn't blaming you  :)
[01:23] <pitti> but we have to adapt that script to the new weird modprobe behaviour
[01:23] <pitti> (or fix the latter)
[01:24] <fabbione> pitti: i blame who decided to do all those changes without testing all the side effects
[01:24] <fabbione> mdz: expert is done
[01:24] <mdz> s/$/ well after feature freeze/
[01:25] <fabbione> what was the reason of changing modprobe behaviour?
[01:25] <fabbione> or whatever they did to nvidia/fglrx?
[01:25] <pitti> fabbione: I'm not sure, but I think it was to avoid loading non-free drivers unless necessary
[01:25] <carlos> is there anyone from the ubuntu-doc team around?
[01:25] <cbx33> does this mean the beta nvidia driver is in?
[01:25] <cbx33> or a fix to the old one?
[01:25] <cbx33> or none of the above
[01:26] <pitti> cbx33: no fix for the root hole so far
[01:26] <mjg59> None of the above
[01:26] <cbx33> rats
[01:26] <fabbione> pitti: ok.. a bit pointless at the 5th release.. but whatever.. damage is done
[01:26] <tonyyarusso> carlos: A few people are online, but -doc has been dead for hours.
[01:26] <carlos> tonyyarusso: thanks, I didn't know there is an ubuntu-doc channel
[01:26] <mjg59> fabbione: To avoid loading 5MB of junk into the kernel when people aren't even using the non-free driver
[01:27] <pitti> hm, but a manual modprobe refusing to load the module?
[01:27] <mdz> pitti: why does nvidia-glx-config need to modprobe?
[01:27] <pitti> mdz: it checks whether the module is available and working
[01:27] <pitti> mdz: we probably have to drop that check then
[01:27] <mdz> pitti: would modprobe -i solve it?
[01:27] <pitti> or first alter the config, then modprobe
[01:28] <fabbione> mdz: i did that check to make sure nvidia was available before altering xorg.conf
[01:28] <fabbione> mdz: it was a sanity check that has always been there
[01:28] <pitti> mdz: ah, -i helps
[01:29] <cbx33> bbl
[01:29] <pitti> mdz: I'd deem that milestone-worthy, do you agree? It's an easy fix, too
[01:29] <mdz> pitti: yse
[01:29] <mdz> yes
[01:29] <pitti> alright, I'll file a bug and see to it
[01:30] <tfheen> mdz: ok, I'll prepublish now
[01:30] <sfllaw> mdz: Done.
[01:30] <tfheen> I just need to find the correct runes
[01:30] <ogra> whats doing the bouncing progressbar on the liveCD ? casper ?
[01:31] <mdz> tfheen: once you have, please add them to the documentation
[01:31] <fabbione> mjg59: how come non-free drivers started autoloading?
[01:31] <fabbione> mjg59: i always had to either force or wait for X to load nvidia
[01:36] <tfheen> mdz: what do you want the images called?  release-candidate or rc?
[01:36] <mdz> tfheen: rc
[01:36] <pitti> carlos: sorry, I was offline often due to install tests; are the new tarballs ready?
[01:37] <fabbione> tfheen: my son is blattering something like "AO".. perhaps we should change name schema :)
[01:37] <carlos> pitti: no, I'm starting the generation now. the mirror was broken and had to wait for our DBA to regenerate the database
[01:37] <fabbione> "ehhhhh.. aoooo"
[01:38] <Kamion> ogra: rescue mode tries to do the simplest possible thing in order to stand the greatest change of working
[01:38] <ogra> well 
[01:38] <pitti> mdz: dapper-proposed langpacks are 8 days old, I didn't hear regression reports; ok for me to have them uploaded to -updates now?
[01:38] <mdz> pitti: did you hear success reports? :-)
[01:39] <ogra> Kamion, we will surely have /bin/bash on every ubuntu system
[01:39] <pitti> mdz: neither, most of the testers use the dailies
[01:39] <StevenK> Kamion: I uploaded an unmetdeps fix for galago-gtk-python. Do you have a sec to check if it's been rejected or will be approved?
[01:40] <mdz> pitti: and the -updates upload is from a known good daily?
[01:40] <pitti> mdz: the -proposed one is, yes
[01:40] <mdz> pitti: ok then
[01:40] <pitti> alright, thanks
[01:41] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 42264 in gettext "language pack po files drop cflag comment which causes segfaults in e. g. 'dd'" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/42264
[01:41] <Kamion> pitti: keyboard> that's incredibly freaky / impossible
[01:41] <pitti> ... see fixed
[01:41] <pitti> Kamion: right, as I said it was PEBCAK, sorry
[01:41] <Kamion> pitti: what version of ubiquity is there on amd64?
[01:41] <mdz> pitti: PEBKAC
[01:41] <pitti> *blush* I accidentally burned the dapper image *brown paperbag*
[01:42] <tfheen> mdz: .pool/ubuntu-6.10-rc-alternate-amd64.iso looks like a good name, right?
[01:42] <mdz> tfheen: yes
[01:42] <Kamion> pitti: oh, ok, PEBCAK, good :)
[01:42] <mdz> tfheen: Kamion can confirm that everything is hunky-dory once he's finished with scrollback
[01:42] <tfheen> mdz: sure
[01:43] <Kamion> mdz: powerpc DVDs are the only way that Pegasos installs will work; I concede that there are few of those but they are a partner
[01:44] <mdz> Kamion: the sort of partner whose representatives publicly condemn us
[01:44] <pitti> mdz, Kamion: if we still lack a tester for them, I can bike to the university to a friend of mine and download them there
[01:44] <pitti> mdz, Kamion: it's probably too late for RC, but I can do that for the final release if necessary
[01:44] <mdz> pitti: I believe keescook can do it, but he's not likely to be awake for a few more hours
[01:45] <tfheen> the DVDs don't need pre-publishing either
[01:45] <Kamion> ogra: /bin/bash links to more stuff than dash does; it's quite possible that it would be broken due to e.g. libncurses being broken where /bin/sh would work ffine
[01:46] <ogra> hmm, right
[01:46] <Kamion> mdz: well, mdy commented on that yesterday
[01:46] <Kamion> in #canonical
[01:46] <ogra> but dash is a very uncomfortable usershell
[01:46] <Kamion> StevenK: was in the unapproved queue last I checked; I haven't looked at it yet
[01:46] <Kamion> ogra: type 'bash' then
[01:47] <ogra> heh, indeed
[01:47] <Kamion> and FWICT Sven seems to be being suppressed as a Genesi representative
[01:50] <StevenK> Kamion: Righto. Thanks.
[01:51] <ogra> hmm, the usplash drive CD check on ppc isnt very informative
[01:51] <ogra> *driven
[01:52] <pitti> ogra: at least it shows you when it's finished now :)
[01:53] <Kamion> I'll try to download the Ubuntu powerpc DVD now
[01:54] <Kamion> well, after testing Kubuntu desktop amd64
[01:55] <ogra> pitti, right, and it worked flawless .... its just strange that the only indicator is the progressbar
[01:55] <pitti> right, it actually shows filenames on amd64
[01:55] <ogra> pitti, did you see any weirdness with the bouncing usplash progressbar on ppc live ?
[01:56] <Nafallo> hmm. rsync stopped working on cdimage.ubuntu.com?
[01:56] <pitti> ogra: no idea, after some seconds the screen goes black and I only see a weird-color progress bar
[01:56] <ogra> seems usplash used a different mode for me
[01:56] <ogra> the wallpaper turned black and the progressbar was distroted
[01:56] <ogra> right
[01:56] <ogra> do we have a bug about that ?
[01:58] <Kamion> Riddell: Kubuntu amd64 usplash still looks a bit weird. Have you tried it?
[01:58] <Riddell> we don't seem to have an option for expert install on the CD boot screen any more 
[01:58] <Nafallo> rsync is back fwiw :-)
[01:58] <Riddell> Kamion: yes, working fine for me in glorious 16 colours
[01:58] <pitti> Riddell: two times F6?
[01:58] <Kamion> it displays fine and all, but the progress bar is just a series of vertical lines with no horizontal lines top or bottom?
[01:59] <Kamion> Riddell: what pitti said, exact same as in dapper
[01:59] <pitti> but I agree that it's almost undiscoverable
[01:59] <pitti> but well, it's expert :)
[01:59] <Riddell> that is expert :)
[01:59] <Kamion> I actually don't want expert mode to be very discoverable
[01:59] <Kamion> people discover it and then file bugs that it asks them lots of questions
[01:59] <Kamion> "yes. and?"
[02:00] <mdz> it is poorly named
[02:00] <StevenK> "That's the point." Rejected.
[02:00] <pitti> 'enter an 11-digit prime number to do an expert install'
[02:00] <mdz> it should be renamed ask-me-harder
[02:00] <Fujitsu> pitti, yes please! :P
[02:00] <fabbione> ahha
[02:00] <Mirv> (pitti: my earlier message you asked about with a ? was just me deciphering fabbione's MIR acronym)
[02:00] <pitti> I wonder why it didn't ask me for my shoe size
[02:00] <Kamion> Riddell: can you update Testing/Current with that?
[02:00] <pitti> Mirv: ah, I see
[02:01] <fabbione> pitti: it already knows that
[02:01] <Riddell> Kamion: just as soon as I have an install done with X running
[02:01] <fabbione> mdz: netboot on i386 is good too
[02:02] <mdz> fabbione: alternate auto-resize succeeded in the partitioning but I'm waiting for the install to complete
[02:02] <fabbione> mdz: ok.. i think alternate is all covered now
[02:02] <fabbione> rodarvus: are you testing server cd i386 ?
[02:02] <pitti> Kamion: still I was impressed how well expert mode actually works; I had a list of 17 non-default answers, and the final system worked well and respected all of the changes
[02:02] <rodarvus> fabbione, yes, doing it *right now* (download just finished)
[02:02] <pitti> Kamion: I would bet two beer that most of the possible combinations have never been tested before :)
[02:02] <mdz> my expert/LVM is paused while auto-resize finishes
[02:03] <fabbione> mdz: i did expert with manual.. LVM works in all other situations. it shouldn't be required as test
[02:04] <Kamion> pitti: yeah, it's fairly resilient by design
[02:05] <dholbach> pitti: we had people installing  ubuntu-server-with-their-big-toe  - i would call that good test coverage ;)
[02:06] <fabbione> who did edubuntu artwork?
[02:06] <mdz> fabbione: oh, it looked like it said Keybuk in progress and he's clearly not here
[02:06] <mdz> (does anyone know where he is?)
[02:06] <ogra> fabbione, cbx33 and his wife mostly 
[02:06] <tfheen> dholbach: I should teach my dog to install ubuntu.
[02:06] <fabbione> mdz: it was my typo and i fixed it once i finished
[02:07] <fabbione> ogra: ok.. it's just waaaaaayyy toooooooo ooorange!
[02:07] <mvo> a bit bright too
[02:08] <fabbione> mdz: i think it's easier to call him.. he is probably in Keybuk's TZ
[02:08] <tfheen> fabbione: gives ya the real tex-mex feelin'!
[02:08] <fabbione> tfheen: ahah
[02:08] <Nafallo> tfheen: ooh. you have a dog now? :-)
[02:08] <ogra> fabbione, we'll call it the dutch release :)
[02:09] <Kamion> ETA six hours on the powerpc DVD download
[02:09] <tfheen> Nafallo: yes
[02:09] <fabbione> ogra: or the sicilian release.. with real orange juice
[02:09] <Nafallo> kewl :-)
[02:09] <Kamion> I'll cancel that and do it overnight so that I have it for final; there's no point using all my bandwidth on it now
[02:09] <fabbione> Kamion: i can test live DVD for ppc, but that's about it.. no ubiquity or install
[02:10] <seb128> lunch time; bbl
[02:12] <Kamion> I'll grab Kubuntu alternate powerpc and do that instead
[02:12] <fabbione> Kamion: ok, do you still want live dvd tested?
[02:13] <Kamion> fabbione: if you can, it would be a lot better than nothing
[02:13] <fabbione> Kamion: yup.. 
[02:13] <Kamion> fabbione: also try rescue mode to give the d-i environment at least some exercise
[02:13] <fabbione> Kamion: yes i can do both... i just can't install over there
[02:17] <rodarvus> fabbione, any specific tests you'd like me to do appart from installation?
[02:18] <rodarvus> server load, services, remote shares, etc
[02:18] <fabbione> rodarvus: up to you
[02:18] <mdz> rodarvus: thin client
[02:18] <fabbione> keep in mind we are in short of time..
[02:18] <fabbione> mdz: from server?
[02:19] <rodarvus> mdz, yup, will do those on edubuntu as soon as server testing is done (in 20-30 minutes, I hope)
[02:19] <mjg59> fabbione: Because nvidia has a modalias list
[02:23] <mdz> fabbione: oh, he was also listed for some edubuntu
[02:23] <ogra> mdz, i can doi the rest of edubuntu, i have the isos around anyway
[02:24] <ogra> (just pulling the DVDs)
[02:24] <mvo> mdz: I can do amd64/server-cd
[02:29] <Nafallo> 20061018 is rc, right? :-)
[02:32] <Kamion> Nafallo: Depends on the image. See Testing/Current
[02:33] <Nafallo> oki, thanks
[02:34] <Nafallo> true for desktop then :-)
[02:38] <fabbione> oh here is Keybuk 
[02:38] <mdz> tfheen: do you have a timestamp from when pre-publishing finished?
[02:38] <mdz> tfheen: so that we know when our 4-hour window ends?
[02:38] <giskard> hello *
[02:39] <tfheen> mdz: 14:05 < tfheen> mdz: pre-publishing running.
[02:39] <mdz> tfheen: that's when you started it?
[02:39] <tfheen> that was approximately half a minute after I started the pre-publishing.
[02:39] <fabbione> i assume that it is known that usplash on ppc is half broken
[02:39] <mdz> oh, we can't tell when it's finished, can we
[02:39] <tfheen> running sync-mirrors never takes more than ten seconds or so
[02:39] <mdz> yes we can; there should be rsyncd processes on lithium
[02:40] <tfheen> mdz: I doubt all mirrors synced 14 cd images in less than an hour.
[02:41] <Kamion> most mirrors don't rsync from lithium, but from syncproxy or similar
[02:42] <Kamion> it's only internal DC mirrors that rsync from lithium
[02:42] <mdz> tfheen: elmo pointed out that we should remove beta
[02:42] <tfheen> mdz: so it probably requires poking the various mirrors.  I'll ask Znarl for a list if it has changed since beta.
[02:42] <mdz> tfheen: I've added that to the doc
[02:42] <Kamion> mdz: no need
[02:42] <mdz> oh? it replaces it?
[02:42] <Kamion> mdz: beta gets automatically removed when rc is published for real
[02:42] <Keybuk> fabbione: did you need me?
[02:43] <fabbione> Keybuk: i can't live without you... you know that :)
[02:43] <Keybuk> *hugs*
[02:43] <Kamion> but not when it's only pre-published, for obvious reasons
[02:43] <mdz> Kamion: ok
[02:43] <mdz> Keybuk: did you die?
[02:43] <tfheen> Kamion: magic!
[02:43] <elmo> Kamion: could we do it before then?
[02:43] <elmo> Kamion: releases is 51G atm 
[02:43] <Keybuk> mdz: no, still sorting out passport issues; have been all week :-/
[02:43] <Keybuk> took longer in town than I wanted
[02:43] <Kamion> elmo: if we don't mind there being nothing for edgy on releases ...
[02:43] <Kamion> (visibly)
[02:44] <elmo> Kamion: assuming we're going to release today, I don't think that's a problem
[02:44] <elmo> but  that's just MO
[02:44] <mdz> Keybuk: if you need to deal with something urgent during release prep, please coordinate with sfllaw to get your test cases reassigned
[02:44] <tfheen> Kamion: just rm the images (and the symlinks) from the pool or is there a script to do that too?
[02:44] <mdz> we had a bit of a scramble
[02:44] <Kamion> tfheen: let me, I forget ...
[02:45] <Keybuk> mdz: I didn't even realise I *had* test cases assigned to me until I got back in and read my e-mail ;)
[02:45] <Kamion> mdz: ok to remove beta?
[02:45] <Kamion> tfheen: they need to be archived, not removed - I'll take care of it
[02:45] <mdz> Kamion: yes, and please add the procedure to ReleaseCandidateProcess
[02:45] <Kamion> the procedure involves moving to ~cjwatson/old-images/ :-P
[02:46] <mdz> Kamion: that's ok
[02:46] <tfheen> Kamion: could that be ~cdimage/old-images instead?
[02:46] <mdz> Kamion: "remind Colin to run these commands" is a valid step :-)
[02:46] <Kamion> tfheen: yes, in principle, but not now :)
[02:46] <rodarvus> fabbione, browsing the WWW server of the LAMP from a remote machine leaves me in the /var/www/, instead of /var/www/apache-default/ (meaning I don't get to see the 'apache default installation' page). Is this expected, a (known?) bug, or weirdness on my network (unlikely, though)
[02:46] <tfheen> Kamion: ok, I've put a note on a postit telling me we should fix that post-release.
[02:47] <tfheen> I utterly hate using personal accounts for stuff which should be something that a role account does.
[02:47] <fabbione> rodarvus: please file bugs in LP. 
[02:47] <Kamion> sure, it predates the role account
[02:47] <Kamion> (I think)
[02:48] <Kamion> mdz: what is ReleaseCandidateProcess really called?
[02:48] <doko_> Riddell: openoffice.org-kde isn't seeded for kubuntu-desktop?
[02:48] <tfheen> Kamion: wiki.c.c
[02:48] <Kamion> oh
[02:48] <Kamion> why?
[02:50] <Keybuk> Kamion: am I picky if I say that the keyboard guesser gives you characters which look very like normal ones :)
[02:50] <tfheen> Keybuk: it shouldn't; it has a check to avoid that.
[02:50] <Kamion> Keybuk: it shouldn't normally do that without also offering the "normal" ones
[02:51] <Keybuk> Kamion: there were normal ones in the list, but I couldn't tell the difference
[02:51] <Keybuk> so I pressed 'r'
[02:51] <Kamion> that's ok
[02:51] <Keybuk> and it bitched
[02:51] <Kamion> if you can't tell the difference, press something that looks like it
[02:51] <Kamion> Keybuk: can we go through this in more detail later?
[02:51] <Keybuk> Kamion: yup
[02:51] <fabbione> Someone else saved this page while you were editing! Please review the page and save then. Do not save this page as it is! Have a look at the diff of
[02:52] <fabbione> THANKS!
[02:52] <mvo> rodarvus: I have seen the same on my server testinstall (does it have a bugnumber yet?)
[02:52] <mdz> moin's conflict handling is fatally lfawed
[02:52] <mdz> flawed
[02:52] <Keybuk> Kamion: I'm also getting "the resize operation is impossible" from the alternate
[02:52] <Kamion> -v
[02:52] <Keybuk> trying to resize an existing, or new, ext3 partition
[02:53] <Keybuk> I get a big resize screen that says "Because of an unknown reason it is impossible to resize this partition."
[02:53] <Kamion> hmm, not seen that, file a bug on partman-ext3 with /var/log/syslog and /var/log/partman please?
[02:53] <Kamion> probably a parted bug actually
[02:54] <rodarvus> mvo, no, I'll fill it in a minute (and write it down on the Testing/Current page)
[02:54] <mvo> rodarvus: thanks, feel free to add it to my amd64/server/lamp test as well :)
[02:54] <Keybuk> Kamion: how do I install scp onto this? :)
[02:54] <rodarvus> mvo, sure thing
[02:55] <Kamion> Keybuk: anna-install openssh-client-udeb
[02:55] <Kamion> Keybuk: or use "save debug logs" from the main menu and it can be told to start a web server
[02:57] <fabbione> Keybuk: dude.. did you really tested all those x86 images and didn't update the wiki???
[02:58] <Keybuk> fabbione: I have vmware profiles for each of the tests, so didn't take long
[02:58] <Keybuk> this thing can run half a dozen at a time
[02:59] <mdz> tfheen,Riddell: Kubuntu looks ready to pre-publish, yes?
[02:59] <Kamion> elmo: at your convenience, could you please archive lithium:~cjwatson/old-images/ and let me know when I can remove it? some of the stuff in there might be archived already
[03:00] <tfheen> mdz: yes.
[03:01] <fabbione> Kamion: dvd live and rescue look good
[03:01] <fabbione> Kamion: (ppc)
[03:01] <Kamion> elmo: the host key for mirnyy in lithium:/etc/ssh/ssh_known_hosts is wrong
[03:02] <Znarl> Kamion : I'll fix that.
[03:02] <Kamion> thanks. IIRC it's in LDAP?
[03:03] <Znarl> Kamion : We've taken mirnyy out of cdimage rotation for the time being, as it isn't preforming as well as we'd like.
[03:03] <Kamion> Znarl: oh. Shall I stop triggering it then?
[03:03] <mdz> ogra: what's the default for edubuntu when you have two ethernet adapters? which one is inside and which one is outside?
[03:04] <Kamion> Znarl: according to my list, the only host in the cdimage rotation is now beryllium - is that true?
[03:04] <Kamion> fabbione: thanks
[03:04] <Znarl> Kamion : Lets keep triggering it for the time being?  Just in case beryllium gets into trouble?  So it's a hot standby?
[03:04] <Kamion> ok
[03:05] <Kamion> beta removed from releases and torrent
[03:05] <Znarl> Yes, beryllium is the only cdimage right now and it's doing fine.  I think Elmo has a plan to upgrade mirnyy but I'm not sure on the status of that.
[03:06] <tfheen> Znarl: could you get me a list of all the release mirrors we trigger now?
[03:06] <tfheen> so I could get them into the release announcement
[03:07] <Znarl> tfheen : Yes, sure.
[03:07] <Nafallo> hmm, people where downloading i386 beta from me :-)
[03:07] <Nafallo> are even
[03:08] <Nafallo> beta dvds still up?
[03:08] <ogra> mdz, you select the one for outside in d-i's netcfg
[03:09] <ogra> mdz, so the other one is the ltsp one by default
[03:09] <ogra> if you have more than two NICs you get a selection list after the ltsp-build-client installer step
[03:09] <Kamion> Nafallo: for now, but liable to be removed at any time.
[03:10] <Nafallo> Kamion: okidoki :-).
[03:10] <mdz> ogra: ok
[03:11] <Kamion> mdz: how about we move breezy off releases.ubuntu.com to old-releases.ubuntu.com? would ease some space pressure
[03:12] <mdz> Kamion: absolutely
[03:12] <mdz> Kamion: hmm, when installing alongside Dapper, my grub menu now says (single-user mode) rather than (recovery mode)
[03:12] <mdz> Kamion: did that regress?
[03:13] <Kamion> I'm not sure, that would have been zul
[03:13] <sladen> mdz: for both dapper and edgy?
[03:13] <mdz> zul: ^^
[03:13] <mdz> sladen: installing edgy alongside dapper
[03:13] <mdz> the dapper one says recovery
[03:13] <mdz> the edgy one says single-user
[03:13] <Keybuk> mdz: you have a combination of both?
[03:14] <mdz> Keybuk: I believe it copies the menu entries from dapper (as it should), but the edgy one is generated wrong
[03:14] <mdz> can someone confirm if this happens on an erase-disk install too?
[03:14] <Keybuk> that sounds like menu.lst is wrong
[03:14] <mdz> it is
[03:14] <Keybuk> "(single-user)" is the grub default
[03:14] <Keybuk> the installer deliberately writes that different
[03:14] <mdz> it wasn't in dapper
[03:14] <Keybuk> yeah it was
[03:14] <Keybuk> _grub_ default
[03:14] <Keybuk> grub doesn't normally write the first menu.lst
[03:15] <sladen> Keybuk: it's what /generates/ the menu.lst on upgrade that's likely to be wrong (copied entries okay, appended entries == bad)
[03:15] <Keybuk> sladen: right, it must copy the entries, but leave the default grub preamble in place
[03:15] <Keybuk> rather than editing the grub preamble first
[03:15] <sladen> Keybuk: I suspect it doesn't "leave" preamble, but cat's its own idea of what that preamble should be
[03:16] <Keybuk> could be update-grub itself?
[03:16] <mdz> other than that, my alternate auto-resize succeeded
[03:16] <mdz> Keybuk: update-grub should be changed to say recovery
[03:16] <Keybuk> mdz: you managed to get a resize out of it?
[03:16] <sladen> Kamion: what normally generates the /first/ menu.lst?
[03:16] <mdz> Keybuk: yes, your virtual disk just needs to be big enough (6G is sufficient)
[03:17] <Keybuk> mdz: right, but then I got a partman error
[03:17] <Keybuk> same for manual partitioning
[03:17] <mvo> I have "single-user mode" in a fresh server install in grub as well
[03:17] <Keybuk> mdz: it says "single-user mode" for a CLI install
[03:18] <sladen> debian/update-grub in the grub source says 'single-user'
[03:18] <mdz> yes, that's the bug
[03:18] <Kamion> sladen: grub-installer
[03:18] <mdz> we changed this *ages* ago
[03:18] <Kamion> yes, sounds like a regression
[03:19] <sladen> ah, a *Debian* fix (debian #370110) changed "from recovery mode to single-user"
[03:19] <Ubugtu> Debian bug 370110 in grub "please s/recovery/single-user/ in generated menu.lst" [Wishlist,Closed]  http://bugs.debian.org/370110
[03:19] <mdz> bug 62600
[03:19] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62600 in grub ""Single User mode" should be renamed" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62600
[03:24] <Keybuk> weird, auto-resize worked that time
[03:24] <Keybuk> kooky
[03:30] <Kamion> right, breezy images moved to old-releases.u.c
[03:35] <Kamion> could somebody with a current powerpc desktop CD handy (doesn't matter what architecture) verify that /etc/kernel-img.conf contains 'link_in_boot = yes'? see bug 52679
[03:35] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 52679 in ubiquity "link_in_boot not set correctly" [High,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/52679
[03:36] <Keybuk> holy crap, vmware just took out my machine ;9
[03:36] <mdz> I've only had it do that a couple of times
[03:36] <Keybuk> heh
[03:37] <keescook> mornin'
[03:39] <gnomefreak> who do we talk to about dapper-commercial repos
[03:40] <elmo> is this gnome 'tracker' thing packaged yet in edgy?
[03:41] <tfheen> elmo: doesn't seem to be
[03:41] <zul> hmm..
[03:41] <mjg59> elmo: No, probably to some extent because upstream appears to be on bad crack
[03:41] <Keybuk> pieceofcrap
[03:41] <elmo> mjg59: oh how come?
[03:44] <mjg59> elmo: At various points, he's managed to piss off approximately everyone in gnome upstream
[03:45] <doko> Riddell: ping
[03:46] <elmo> mjg59: ah
[03:46] <bhale> elmo: last i looked at tracker (2 months?) it did indexing of plain text files and provided a command line interface
[03:46] <bhale> and an optional patch to nautilus
[03:47] <bhale> grep -R works just fine for me
[03:48] <bhale> there is an amazing ammount of hype over what it could potentially do
[03:48] <bddebian> Howdy
[03:56] <keescook> okay, anyone seen keyboard issues on ppc during first X session?  if I flip to console and back, it's solved.  I can't find a bug report that covers this.
[03:58] <pitti> hi keescook 
[03:58] <zul> Kamion: ping about the grub-menu bits i didnt touch that
[03:59] <keescook> hiya pitti
[03:59] <Riddell> doko: hi
[04:01] <mdz> ogra: my edubuntu server install + clients seems to work great
[04:01] <seb128> hum
[04:01] <seb128> is oem mode supposed to do something special after first boot or first login?
[04:02] <mdz> seb128: only after you run sudo oem-config-prepare as the instructions tell you :-)
[04:02] <ogra> mdz, yippie \o/
[04:02] <seb128> mdz: k, thank you, I was just thinking I should have read the screen before rebooting :)
[04:02] <mdz> ogra: a 32M client and a 64M client
[04:03] <mdz> Kamion: I think part of simplify-oem should be making that a login notification and doing autologin for the oem user
[04:03] <ogra> cool, i didnt test with "real" 32M clients, only with mem= bootoption
[04:03] <mdz> so they get instructions (or better, a simple wizard) after booting rather than before
[04:04] <mdz> ogra: I tested with "real" vmware 32M machines
[04:04] <mdz> I should be able to test local devices with this setup also
[04:05] <ogra> just dont forget to add the user to the fuse group ... 
[04:05] <jonh_wendell> mdz: we, translators, have to work in rosetta until today, right?
[04:06] <mdz> ogra: oh?  why don't we do that by default?
[04:06] <ogra> security reasons
[04:06] <ogra> i talked to some educators, they want it rather optional 
[04:06] <ogra> but look into the users-admin tool, there is a checkbox with proper explanation
[04:07] <mdz> jonh_wendell: today is the deadline, correct
[04:09] <jonh_wendell> mdz, thanks
[04:09] <paulbk_> I just wanted to let someone know I installed Edgy desktop last night - No problems.
[04:10] <mdz> ogra: ha!  I insert a real CD into the drive, which is mapped to the thin client VM, and it appears on the desktop like magic. :-)
[04:10] <ogra> YEAH :)
[04:10] <ogra> sbalneav^^^
[04:10] <Kamion> zul: yeah, turned out to have been a Debian change we merged without noticing
[04:10] <sbalneav> \o/
[04:10] <Kamion> mdz: yes, I agree, and oem-config-prepare should be accessible from menus etc.
[04:10] <Kamion> mdz: did you see my comment last night to the effect that I'd like to merge oem-config with ubiquity? they (should) share a lot of code
[04:11] <mdz> Kamion: yes I did
[04:11] <mdz> Kamion: do you think that should be a separate spec?
[04:11] <Kamion> I'm not sure that discussing it separately will necessarily be useful
[04:11] <doko> Riddell: openoffice.org-kde is not on the live DVD -> no KDE widgets, no KDE icons
[04:13] <zul> Kamion: ok
[04:17] <Riddell> doko: yes, amd64 only.  probably too late to change unless it's been well tested
[04:18] <opi> Hi
[04:18] <doko> Riddell: what do you mean by "well tested"?
[04:18] <opi> I wonder if you got same xorg mess as I did 
[04:19] <opi> after I've moved to Edgy, my xorg died claiming drivers (ie. ati) is ABI incopatible with xorg itself
[04:19] <opi> it seems like I've got 7.0 drivers with 7.1 xorg
[04:19] <opi> "module API major version (0) dosen't match server version"
[04:20] <Riddell> doko: used by lots of people.  I'm just being overly cautious, I'm happy to take an opinion from our release dudes
[04:20] <ZeroCool> Just Read This, Very Interesting Article http://www.madpenguin.org/cms/?m=show&id=7603
[04:20] <Kamion> What's With The Title Case?
[04:20] <ZeroCool> has allot to due with Xorg
[04:20] <opi> ZeroCool: ah, this is link for me? :)
[04:21] <ZeroCool> This is a link for the group... to read about xorg
[04:21] <doko> Riddell: we should change it for final, not necessarily for RC.
[04:21] <ZeroCool> how setting up xorg could be allot easier
[04:21] <Riddell> oh definately not RC :)
[04:21] <Kamion> xorg.conf is likely to disappear, not be easier to edit
[04:22] <ZeroCool> read the link, for a new idea
[04:22] <Kamion> I read it.
[04:22] <ZeroCool> cool, and ?
[04:22] <opi> ZeroCool: that won't solve my ABI problem ;)
[04:22] <Kamion> see above
[04:23] <ZeroCool> disappear, where ?
[04:23] <Kamion> ZeroCool: furthermore, right now we are trying to prepare a release candidate; we'd appreciate not too many distractions, please
[04:23] <ZeroCool> opi: no for your issue
[04:23] <ZeroCool> opps.
[04:23] <opi> Kamion: OK, OK -- I'm going ;-) Have fun with release. I'm going to dig solution on my own.
[04:24] <jdong> holy crap... flashplayer9... anyone see that coming? 
[04:24] <jdong> and it actually works
[04:24] <bhale> they have been blogging it for months
[04:25] <Nafallo> jdong: we had bugs against firefox about it :-P
[04:25] <jdong> I didn't expect them to release it so soon
[04:25] <Nafallo> only beta ffs :-)
[04:25] <jdong> bhale: they've been blogging so much about it that it was beginning to sound like vaporware :)
[04:25] <bhale> not when i read it.
[04:26] <jdong> well, my friend, maybe you're a lot more optimistic than me
[04:26] <jdong> to me it sounded like they were aiming for next year
[04:27] <Nafallo> security updates :-)
[04:27] <bhale> this is off topic
[04:27] <Nafallo> bhale: right :-)
[04:28] <jdong> oh, are we there yet? ;-)
[04:29] <Nafallo> jdong: you might want to fire up rsync atleast :-)
[04:29] <jdong> that wasn't a serious question, actually....
[04:30] <Nafallo> hehe
[04:30] <jdong> my wifi is giving me post-traumatic stress disorder
[04:30] <Nafallo> so I will be a lonely seed with 1Mbit up? ;-)
[04:30] <jdong> Nafallo: I don't think my 300kbit up would be any contribution ;)
[04:30] <Nafallo> hehe
[04:40] <Kamion> pitti: is it just me, or is there a really nasty fd leak in hald-runner/runner.c:run_exited?
[04:40] <Kamion> pitti: it never seems to close rd->stderr_v
[04:40] <Kamion> pitti: I have a hald-runner here with 1015 fds open, as a result of which I can't suspend
[04:40] <pitti> Kamion: looking
[04:41] <pitti> it never stopped my laptop from suspending, though
[04:41] <Kamion> it might take a while ...
[04:41] <Kamion> or it might depend on other errors
[04:41] <Keybuk> quest scott% sudo ls /proc/5283/fd
[04:41] <Keybuk> 0  1  2  3
[04:41] <pitti> same here
[04:42] <pitti> sjoerd: ^ did you see this?
[04:43] <keescook> hald-runner> I've only got the 4 too
[04:43] <sjoerd> pitti: already fixed
[04:43] <Kamion> if I'm reading the code right, it only leaks for requests with error_on_stderr set
[04:43] <sjoerd> (fixed in debian thatis)
[04:43] <pitti> sjoerd: ah, sweet
[04:43] <Kamion> can we pull that fix into edgy post-RC, please?
[04:44] <pitti> Kamion: of course, I'll create a milestone bug for it
[04:44] <sjoerd> pitti: git fcb6aa0df90b7ee61a58c207896448131d3aa180 in the hal tree
[04:44] <Kamion> thanks!
[04:44] <pitti> Kamion: debian bug 375143
[04:44] <Ubugtu> Debian bug 375143 in hal "hald-runner: leaks file descriptors" [Important,Closed]  http://bugs.debian.org/375143
[04:44] <pitti> sjoerd: cute, thanks!
[04:50] <pitti> mdz: permission to fix bug 66939 for final? (trivial one-liner patch)
[04:50] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 66939 in hal "hald-runner fd leak" [Unknown,Unknown]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/66939
[04:51] <mdz> pitti: yes
[04:53] <doko> Riddell: kubuntu amd64 alternate install; after installation, kdm doesn't let me type in characters; only random keystrokes are detected, then these are autorepeated
[04:53] <Riddell> hmm
[04:53] <Riddell> doko: does that seem like https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/+bug/66929 ?
[04:53] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 66929 in xorg-server "on first boot, ppc keyboard under X repeats forever" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
[04:54] <keescook> doko: that sounds a lot 66929
[04:54] <keescook> that means it's not ppc-specific at least
[04:54] <keescook> doko: if you flip to console and back to X, is it fixed?
[04:55] <doko> keescook: yes
[04:56] <doko> unfortunately leaving X freezes the kernel when using the fglrx driver ... and the radeon driver doesn't support 1920x1200 :-/
[04:56] <keescook> strangely, in OEM mode, during user config, they keyboard is fine
[04:57] <infinity> That was happening to me when I was deboostrapping stuff a while ago, and console-setup's postinst would run and completely hose my X keyboard until I VT switched.
[04:57] <infinity> I thought that got fixed, though...
[04:57] <infinity> And I'm not sure how it would happen on first boot.
[04:59] <TreMobyl> wow.  Big channel.
[04:59] <lamont> hrm... ia64 livecd fails to detect my keyboard type correctly
[05:00] <infinity> lamont: Does a VT switch fix it, by any chance? :)
[05:01] <keescook> but be something specific to kdm: in OEM mode, the keyboard is okay on user setup, but once kdm starts up, the keyboard is busted again.
[05:02] <lamont> infinity: I go through typing all the keys, and it goes right back to the same question again
[05:02] <wasabi_> Um. Looking for a resource on the wiki which describes the freeze process, what is acceptable to upload to universe, what times, when, etc.
[05:02] <infinity> lamont: Oh, you're talking the d-i keyboard guessing thingee.
[05:02] <lamont> yeah
[05:02] <lamont> which could be related to my comment in the other channel
[05:03] <doko> Kamion, tfheen: on amd64, the live CD doesn't use/detect the monitor on the DVI connector during install; it works fine, if I use the VGA connector. results in a black screen for the live CD, and a question about the resolution for the alternate install
[05:07] <pitti> carlos: what's the word on bug 2322? how can I check whether an exported PO file is wrong or correct?
[05:08] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 2322 in rosetta "Truncated plural forms" [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/2322
[05:08] <carlos> pitti: don't worry, I will do that check for you
[05:08] <carlos> before giving you the tarball
[05:08] <lamont> hrm... ia64 install CD also fails to detect the keyboard type.  syslog has 'Line sequence error: YES 37'
[05:08] <pitti> BenC__, infinity: does any of you plan an l-r-m upload after RC? if not, I'd like to do an upload to fix bug 66908
[05:08] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 66908 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.17 "nvidia-glx-config does not work any more" [Medium,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/66908
[05:09] <carlos> pitti: 5000 entries left to finish
[05:09] <infinity> pitti: I have nothing planned, if you want to upload just for --ignore-install, go ahead.
[05:11] <mdz> ogra: I think the edubuntu CDs should be named 'server' and 'desktop' rather than 'install' and 'live'
[05:11] <mdz> especially since you can install from 'live'
[05:11] <pitti> infinity: right; I just want to avoid two uploads in a row
[05:12] <ogra> mdz, good idea
[05:12] <mdz> ogra: coordinate with Kamion to make sure it's done early on for feisty
[05:12] <ogra> yep
[05:13] <pitti> carlos: alright, thanks
[05:17] <doko> urgh, gray on black for LS_COLORS on the console ... nice idea ...
[05:18] <Keybuk> doko: usplash bug, I think
[05:18] <Keybuk> it doesn't restore the palette
[05:18] <azeem> doko: is it for hidden files? ;)
[05:18] <doko> azeem: heh ;) no, directories :(
[05:20] <gnomefreak> mvo: does the update-manager now run -c for you or does it still have to be ran?
[05:23] <mvo> gnomefreak: there are two modes "-d == --devel-release": check for new development releases
[05:24] <gnomefreak> ok i remember there was a bug that it should have ran -c for you. looking at the RC1 wiki it says to run the -c flag
[05:24] <mvo> gnomefreak: and "-c --check-dist-upgrades" <- check at all. in dapper the this checking for new distro relesaes if off by default because we assume that most people will want to stay with the LTS release. so they have (even after the release of edgy) run "update-manager -c"
[05:24] <gnomefreak> ok
[05:24] <mvo> gnomefreak: might be a mistake, what url is this?
[05:24] <gnomefreak> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/EdgyReleaseCandidateAnnouncement
[05:28] <Keybuk> mvo: it's an interesting point that everyone running dapper is going to get an "UPGRADE TO EDGY TODAY!" button
[05:28] <Keybuk> without any warning that the new release will be supported for less time than dapper, etc.
[05:29] <mvo> Keybuk: they won't. dapper will not do this by default (unless you force it via gconf or the -c switch)
[05:29] <Keybuk> ahh
[05:30] <mvo> it is enabled for edgy, so for feisty everyone will see such a button (but I think that is appropriate)
[05:30] <Keybuk> yup
[05:30] <wasabi_> I might appreciate a long dissertation included with that on every distro upgrade.
[05:30] <wasabi_> You are upgrading between releases, your current release is supported until X. Are you sure?
[05:31] <Nafallo> wasabi: quite a bit nicer, indeed.
[05:31] <gnomefreak> ok ty
[05:31] <mvo> good idea
[05:31] <dholbach> sfllaw: no ppc dvd love - I'll add that to StaffHardware
[05:32] <wasabi_> I might even be tempted to say that we should be able to alter that message for a given release by updating some message to -updates
[05:32] <TreMobyl> wasabi_: are you the texas wasabi?
[05:33] <wasabi_> Yeah. The intensive purposes one.
[05:33] <mvo> wasabi_: we can do that to a certain amount because it will download the release notes from a selected location
[05:34] <TreMobyl> wasabi_: alright.  :)
[05:34] <wasabi_> Yeah, but I think the message depends on botht he source/dest release proposed.
[05:34] <wasabi_> Just sayin. ;)
[05:34] <wasabi_> TreMobyl: Anything less than an intensive purpose would be week minded, imo. =)
[05:35] <bluefoxicy> thunderbird is being weird
[05:35] <bluefoxicy> every message in a thread shows the same contents
[05:36] <bluefoxicy> ....
[05:36] <bluefoxicy> even in non-threaded mode
[05:37] <TreMobyl> hahaha
[05:37] <TreMobyl> where's rupert when you need him?
[05:39] <smurf> Kamion: ping
[05:39] <Kamion> smurf: Rather than just pinging me, please tell me what you want and I'll reply when I'm around.
[05:39] <smurf> heh
[05:40] <Kamion> huh, Kubuntu alternate doesn't have language-support-en?
[05:40] <smurf> Kamion: the "do you have the X key? Only count ..." text needs a linefeed somewhere
[05:40] <bluefoxicy> alright, threaded mode off :(  and restart thunderbird
[05:41] <Riddell> Kamion: which platform?
[05:41] <Kamion> smurf: bug 66817, fix waiting for post-RC
[05:41] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 66817 in cdebconf-keystep "fails to wrap text of questions" [Low,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/66817
[05:41] <Kamion> Riddell: powerpc
[05:41] <Kamion> did it not fit?
[05:42] <smurf> bah, thanks; I looked for that one in the wrong packages :-/
[05:42] <Riddell> Kamion: yeah, it didn't fit
[05:42] <Kamion> d'oh
[05:43] <Riddell> although that was about 10 days ago, some things may have changed since then
[05:56] <pitti> seb128, Riddell, anyone else: are you up for some thorough langpack testing in about an hour?
[05:56] <Riddell> pitti: sure
[05:57] <pitti> we should probably use the ones I build now instead of tomorrow's dailies; more time for testing
[05:57] <pitti> unless something important turns up, of course
[05:59] <Kamion> whoa, yes, I see the X key repeat madness here too
[06:02] <Kamion> Keybuk: can you remind me how we deal with network cards whose MAC changes when you load the firmware?
[06:02] <Kamion> at least that seems to be what's happening here
[06:03] <Keybuk> Kamion: I think it goes something like "la la la, not listening"
[06:03] <Kamion> I thought there was some iftab magic
[06:03] <Keybuk> no...
[06:03] <keescook> hm... G5's nv driver seems to only draw the bottom half of the display.  :P
[06:03] <Kamion> arse
[06:03] <Keybuk> the card will get the name eth1 first, then eth2
[06:04] <Keybuk> when we last talked about it, we decided it was a driver bug for announcing the original interface as an Ethernet one, and not a raw one
[06:04] <Keybuk> ie. it should go
[06:04] <Keybuk> eth1  Link encap:UNSPEC HWaddr 00:00:00:00:00:00
[06:04] <Keybuk> ->
[06:05] <Keybuk> eth1  Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 12:34:56:ab:cd:ef
[06:08] <Kamion> doko: please never just commit the same change to multiple derivatives - it makes it harder to merge later
[06:08] <Kamion> should always be done with bzr merge
[06:09] <sivang> I have a T43p and DVD , is this still worth testing?
[06:09] <mdz> how did we get from 11 to 35 targeted bugs?
[06:10] <jdub> testing!
[06:12] <sivang> ah, I see only mdz and dhlobach tested DVD/i386, then I guess it is
[06:13] <mdz> jdub: ITYM "panic"
[06:14] <Kamion> quite a lot of those bugs are fix-committed
[06:14] <Kamion> or otherwise sitting in the queue ready to be unleashed
[06:28] <doko> Kamion: rebuilding ubuntu-meta will remove linuxprinting.org-ppds from the desktop; is this expected/wanted?
[06:29] <Kamion> eek, we didn't do that for RC?
[06:29] <Kamion> yes, that's expected and desired
[06:29] <Kamion> it's meant to be in supported
[06:30] <doko> ok
[06:30] <Kamion> tfheen: confirm the above?
[06:33] <tfheen> yes, it's desired and what we want.
[06:33] <tfheen> I thought we did it for RC too.
[06:33] <tfheen> but, apparently not. :-/
[06:33] <tfheen> it should go on the checklist.  "Make sure *ubuntu-meta is up-to-date"
[06:34] <mdz> it is
[06:34] <mdz> 3. Merge seeds and update metapackages for all derivatives
[06:36] <Kamion> we probably did and then later discovered the problem
[06:36] <doko> tfheen, Kamion: please approve http://people.ubuntu.com/~doko/edgy/ubuntu-meta.debdiff
[06:37] <Kamion> doko: please let ubuntu-meta update use the autogenerated changelog
[06:38] <tfheen> also, what's that linux-headers diff?
[06:38] <doko> Kamion: hmm, didn't find one, running update again
[06:38] <Kamion> tfheen: see #canonical - linux-headers-386 in desktop was a mistake
[06:38] <Kamion> doko: update runs dch
[06:38] <tfheen> Kamion: ok.
[06:38] <mdz> tfheen: wrong set of kernel headers in desktop
[06:39] <infinity> doko: You didn't update ship...
[06:39] <doko> Kamion: ohh, right, it failed, because devscripts wasn't installed. I think, I have to restart from a fresh 1.29
[06:40] <BenC> blah
[06:40] <BenC> all my installs worked
[06:40] <Kamion> boring
[06:40] <infinity> doko: If you're putting -generic in desktop, you need to put -386 in ship.
[06:41] <Kamion> sigh, I already said that in #canonical ...
[06:41] <mdz> wow, I see no bug reports about this
[06:41] <mdz> doko: how did you notice it?
[06:41] <doko> Kamion, infinity: I did ... apparently it did blow up, because dch was not installed
[06:42] <doko> mdz: notice what? the header problem? Trying to rebuild my vmware ...
[06:42] <mdz> doko: yes
[06:42] <Kamion> doko: he means the seed change, not ubuntu-meta
[06:42] <infinity> doko: Ahh, yeah, the seeds look right, just your diff isn't.
[06:42] <Kamion> oh
[06:42] <Kamion> infinity: ship ain't in ubuntu-meta
[06:42] <infinity> Oh, duh.
[06:42] <infinity> I'm retarded.
[06:43] <tfheen> I forgot to pre-publish sparc; I'll fix that now.
[06:43] <tfheen> just -server so not too big of an issue
[06:48] <BenC> tfheen: Sorry I didn't update the testing page yet, but all the stuff I was supposed to test succeeded
[06:48] <BenC> I remember encountering one bug, can't remember what it was, but I remember that it was already filed
[06:55] <poningru> mdz: ping
[06:58] <sivang_live_DVD> I had my usbdisk when I booted, it got 2 usbdisk icons on the desktop
[06:58] <sivang_live_DVD> a bug?
[06:58] <doko> Kamion, tfheen: updated http://people.ubuntu.com/~doko/edgy/ubuntu-meta.debdiff (and checking for dch in the update script)
[06:58] <heno> tfheen: which DVDs are in most pressing need of testing (so I can download wisely)? Kubuntu PPC?
[06:59] <sivang_live_DVD> hmm, also, according to the instructions on testing/current, pressing F1 didn't show me the build number of the volume or so, how can I obtain it to make sure i'm testing current ?
[06:59] <mdz> poningru: yes?
[07:00] <tfheen> heno: those were tested successfully by BenC, but more testing is always good
[07:00] <jonh_wendell> pitti, ping
[07:00] <BenC> tfheen: I didn't test DVD's
[07:00] <BenC> if I was supposed to, I missed it, but I wouldn't be able to anyway
[07:01] <heno> the wiki says Riddell has tested them
[07:02] <heno> Edubuntu looks blank though
[07:02] <sivang_live_DVD> boy, ubuiguity is sweet
[07:07] <keescook> is there a way to ask the live cd to use a specific X driver when it start up?
[07:09] <sivang_live_DVD> I'm dropping my notes as I test at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SivanTestingNotes?action=show
[07:09] <sivang_live_DVD> could someone please xplain what does ' It's visible on the F1 help screen on i386 and amd64' mean? :)
[07:09] <sivang_live_DVD> When I do this on the desktop DVD I just get yelp :)
[07:10] <Kamion> doko: ok
[07:11] <infinity> doko: Do you have a fix for the gcc-3.3/amd64 build failure?
[07:12] <Kamion> sivang_live_DVD: f1 at boot time, not later
[07:12] <sivang_live_DVD> Kamion: ah :-/
[07:12] <Kamion> as in on the very first screen when you boot
[07:13] <Kamion> sivang_live_DVD: just cat /cdrom/.disk/info
[07:13] <sivang_live_DVD> this should be cleared on testing/current instructions, or I'm just dumb?
[07:13] <Kamion> feel free to edit Testing/Current to note that it's in .disk/info on the CD/DVD
[07:13] <sivang_live_DVD> cool, thanks
[07:14] <Kamion> ah, I'm beginning to get a handle on the fight between console-setup and X
[07:15] <sivang_live_DVD> Kamion: anyway to reach this info after you're in live ?
[07:15] <Kamion> 18:13 < Kamion> sivang_live_DVD: just cat /cdrom/.disk/info
[07:16] <sivang_live_DVD> Kamion: I'd have to mount it first. /media is empty for me :-/
[07:16] <Kamion> so mount it ...
[07:17] <sivang_live_DVD> it it by design that the cdrom is not mounted on the live session?
[07:17] <tfheen> BenC: ok
[07:18] <sivang_live_DVD> oh , sorry, my bad, found it.
[07:21] <doko> infinity: no, didn't look yet
[07:26] <infinity> doko: Fixing the ia64 failure at the same time would win you bonus points, but amd64 is the only critical bug.
[07:26] <doko> infinity: it's universe ... I can do that if you look at some OOo crashes in the meantime ;-p
[07:26] <infinity> doko: Err, no it's not.  gcc-3.3 is supported.
[07:26] <infinity> doko: (libstdc++5)
[07:26] <doko> that's crack ... :-( will have to look, yes ...
[07:26] <infinity> If you're swamped with OOo stuff, I can look at gcc-3.3 tomorrow.
[07:26] <infinity> Was just pinging you about it, cause it's "yours".
[07:26] <infinity> I'm happy to look.  I doubt it's a difficult bug to fix.
[07:28] <doko> infinity: dh_shlibdeps seems to fail? interesting ...
[07:33] <doko> having that in debian/shlibs.local was needed for gcj, which isn't built anymore, so we can just remove the line
[07:33] <pitti> jonh_wendell: pong
[07:33] <doko> infinity: ugh, and ia64 tries a biarch build ...
[07:33] <jonh_wendell> pitti, can you look at bug 65223? i've made a question there
[07:33] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 65223 in mozilla-firefox-locale-all "Add pt-BR translation" [Wishlist,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65223
[07:33] <infinity> pt-BR will be in the next update, no?
[07:33] <infinity> 2.0rc3 brought it back, right?
[07:33] <pitti> it will
[07:33] <pitti> jonh_wendell: hm, I'm not sure how localized start pages are handled
[07:33] <pitti> jonh_wendell: TBH I'd like to discuss that with iwj first
[07:33] <TreMobyl> any hope on getting bug 66547 fixed before release?
[07:33] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 66547 in xserver-xorg-video-ati "lockup when running glxgears" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/66547
[07:33] <jonh_wendell> pitti, TBH?
[07:33] <pitti> jonh_wendell: to be honest
[07:33] <jonh_wendell> :)
[07:33] <pitti> jonh_wendell: when it comes to Firefox, I'm just the apprentice :)
[07:34] <jonh_wendell> pitti, ok, i hope you'll investigate it for us!
[07:35] <pitti> seb128, Riddell, everybody else: please test the candidate langpacks for final edgy! add 'deb  http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/langpacks/daily/edgy/ ./' to your apt sources and scrutinize them
[07:42] <webben> Currently, Edgy's libtotem-complex.* plugin can't handle RealAudio streaming from the BBC Radio Player. But it also seems to prevent the RealPlayer plugin handling the same (at least using the RealPlayer from the dapper-commercial repo). Would it be possible to fix totem so it doesn't do that? Or would it be necessary to fix RealPlayer instead?
[07:42] <elmo> webben: already reported as a bug
[07:43] <jonh_wendell> pitti, i'm going to test it. Firefox issue related to that bug doesn't enter in your rep, does it?
[07:43] <pitti> jonh_wendell: no, it does
[07:43] <elmo> LP 66902
[07:43] <webben> elmo: ah it is... cool :)
[07:43] <pitti> jonh_wendell: but I have the updated packages for testing, too
[07:43] <pitti> jonh_wendell: deb http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/packages/firefox/ ./
[07:44] <jonh_wendell> pitti, great!
[07:46] <Riddell> pitti: how come language-pack-kde-fr doesn't depend on language-pack-fr ?
[07:47] <pitti> Riddell: hm, we never bothered to do that
[07:47] <pitti> Riddell: I can fix that for feisty if we want
[07:56] <jonh_wendell> pitti, perfect! firefox in pt-br
[07:56] <pitti> jonh_wendell: \o/
[07:58] <Riddell> pitti: french works good for me in kde
[08:00] <pitti> Riddell: tres bien!
[08:00] <jonh_wendell> pitti, there is an update to firefox too, but i prefer to wait until tomorow, or when new firefox enter in edgy
[08:10] <tfheen> hmm, still no xubuntu people around?
[08:13] <dholbach> tfheen: crimsun might know something about Xubuntu
[08:22] <jonh_wendell> pitti, can you check bug 65223 again? I've written there a "proposed patch"
[08:22] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 65223 in mozilla-firefox-locale-all "Add pt-BR translation" [Wishlist,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65223
[08:29] <doko> ogra: ping
[08:29] <pitti> jonh_wendell: I see
[08:30] <pitti> jonh_wendell: this would require some hacking in debian/rules for generalizing the approach
[08:32] <jonh_wendell> pitti, is it hard to do?
[08:33] <pitti> jonh_wendell: not exactly hard, but a little intrusive
[08:33] <pitti> jonh_wendell: if you feel like driving this forward, please open a separate bug about that (use localized start pages), ask mdz whether he's fine with that for edgy, then I'll attach the milestone flag
[08:34] <jonh_wendell> pitti, ok
[08:36] <jonh_wendell> pitti, that new bug should be filled against firefox package? or mozilla-firefox-locale-all?
[08:36] <pitti> jonh_wendell: the latter
[08:37] <doko> Kamion, tfheen: please approve  http://people.ubuntu.com/~doko/edgy/kubuntu-meta.debdiff
[08:37] <tfheen> doko: tomorrow.
[08:37] <Lure> Kubuntu Alternate CD (RC) fails during setting up packages - is this known problem (on LVM setup)
[08:38] <doko> tfheen, ogra: does edubuntu use the same kernels as ubuntu?
[08:39] <tfheen> doko: yes.
[08:39] <doko> tfheen: ok, will prepare that for edubuntu as well (and I assume it's needed for xubuntu as well)
[08:40] <tfheen> doko: thanks.
[08:40] <slomo> tfheen: do you have some time to review the dbus fix we talked about yesterday? debdiff is here: http://slomosnail.de/~slomo/temp/dbus_0.93-0ubuntu3.debdiff
[08:40] <tfheen> doko: the reason for my "tomorrow" is this has been a somewhat intensive day for me.
[08:40] <tfheen> slomo: tomorrow.
[08:40] <slomo> ok
[08:40] <tfheen> I've been working for twelve hours trying not to fuck up the release. :-)
[08:45] <tfheen> Nafallo: using what URL?  I get not authorized
[08:46] <Nafallo> http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/announce
[08:46] <Nafallo> but I can't see them on the tracker...
[08:47] <jonh_wendell> pitti, bug 66977 filled, where is mdz?
[08:47] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 66977 in mozilla-firefox-locale-all "Use localized start pages" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/66977
[08:54] <digger3> Hi, after switching from sysvinit --> upstart my X server won't respond to keyboard commands until I select the 'Remove login via XDMCP option', press cancel and THEN I can enter my username+password.
[08:54] <digger3> BTW everything I type to my x-server appears at a root-prompt which is active at every boot when I press ALT+7
[08:55] <fabbione> digger3: please file a bug in malone with details
[08:55] <digger3> I am unsure which details are needed, any tips?
[08:57] <fabbione> digger3: file the bug and the maintainer will ask for details
[08:57] <digger3> perfect :)
[08:58] <ogra> doko, what change is that ?
[09:00] <digger3> hmm damn, I am getting only error id's like OOPS-292A579 when trying to register in launchpad, oh well
[09:00] <Ubugtu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/292A579
[09:00] <Nafallo> digger3: for those OOPSES #launchpad is the place :-)
[09:00] <Nafallo> launchpad != ubuntu etc...
[09:01] <doko> ogra: http://people.ubuntu.com/~doko/edgy/edu.diff
[09:01] <digger3> I understand
[09:02] <ogra> doko, ah, thats mostly a no-op anyway (apart from the d-i module packages)
[09:03] <doko> ogra: ok, preparing an upload ...
[09:03] <ogra> oh, wait, that means i dont have a -386 kernel on the CD at all ?
[09:04] <ogra> that doesnt work with ltsp, i need to change stuff in the kernel image selector ... 
[09:04] <ogra> or is it headers only and i can keeep -386 for edgy ?
[09:05] <Nafallo> hmm
[09:05] <Nafallo> elmo, Znarl: you know the torrenttracker seems down I guess? otherwise I just wanted to let you know.
[09:06] <Znarl> Nafallo : Yes, we are aware.
[09:06] <Nafallo> goodie then :-)
[09:14] <wasabi_> Under what conditions are UUIDs inserted into fstab and menu.list?
[09:14] <wasabi_> My edgy system, which runs EVMS, had this happen (and basically result in /boot not being mountabl, and grub not working)... but I'm unsure on what timeframe it happened.
[09:17] <wasabi_> rebooty, brb
[09:18] <thiagocmartinsc> Hi!
[09:18] <thiagocmartinsc> who is working on asterisk package ?!
[09:18] <Burgwork> thiagocmartinsc: asterisk is in universe, so best to ask in -motu
[09:18] <thiagocmartinsc> I see that's asterisk.init doesn't manage varrun correctly...
[09:19] <thiagocmartinsc> Mmm..!! ok!
[09:19] <thiagocmartinsc> thanks!
[09:19] <Burgwork> thiagocmartinsc: if you uhave a bug, please file it
[09:19] <thiagocmartinsc> my asterisk.init is right at this time.. for asterisk-1.2.12.1 ..
[09:19] <doko> ogra, tfheen, Kamion: http://people.ubuntu.com/~doko/edgy/edubuntu-meta.debdiff
[09:30] <slomo> infinity: ping? what about apache and apache2? ;)
[09:30] <doko> Kamion, tfheen: last one: http://people.ubuntu.com/~doko/edgy/xubuntu-meta.debdiff
[09:31] <doko> tfheen: last one for today: http://people.ubuntu.com/~doko/edgy/gcc-3.3.debdiff
[09:46] <jonh_wendell> pitti, did you see bug 66977?
[09:46] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 66977 in mozilla-firefox-locale-all "Use localized start pages" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/66977
[09:49] <mdke> jonh_wendell: he will see it.
[09:49] <jonh_wendell> mdke, thanks
[09:55] <mdke> is it possible to do a "for x in whatever; do whatever ${x}; done" phrase in a Makefile? If so, how? I've tried and it doesn't seem to like the ${x} bit
[09:58] <_ion> You need to escape the $ with a $
[10:05] <mdke> _ion: can you give me an example?
[10:08] <pitti> tfheen: congrats for the RC release! So we are free to upload again?
[10:10] <tfheen> pitti: topic still says "frozen", we're frozen for release, so please don't upload anything which shouldn't end up in the release.
[10:10] <pitti> tfheen: of course
[10:10] <pitti> tfheen: just things fixing milestone bugs, and firefox 2.0rc3
[10:10] <tfheen> pitti: go ahead.  I won't approve a thing today though.  Exhausted now.
[10:10] <pitti> tfheen: no, that's fine
[10:11] <pitti> I just want to get it off my hard disk
[10:11] <pitti> tfheen: you did a great job with RM!
[10:11] <Nafallo> s/did/does/ :-)
[10:12] <jonh_wendell> what's RM?
[10:12] <_ion> mdke ::
[10:12] <_ion>         for x in example*; do cat "$${x}" >>$@; done
[10:12] <Nafallo> jonh_wendell: release management
[10:13] <tfheen> pitti: thanks a lot, it's been an interesting ride.
[10:13] <mdke> _ion: doesn't seem to quite work... I have "for x in website-index/*; do y=(basename $${x} website-index/); echo $${y}; xsltproc --stringparam root.filename "index.$${y}" -o $(BASE) $(INDEXCHUNKXSL) website-index/$${y}/website-index.xml;done" can you see what's wrong?
[10:14] <mdke> _ion: looks like it doesn't like the (
[10:15] <_ion> Do you mean y=$$(basename $${x} website-index/)?
[10:16] <tfheen> mdke: you're aware that basename will strip any and all directory names off?
[10:16] <mdke> _ion: I don't know whether I meant it or not, but it works, thanks :)
[10:17] <_ion> Why not use the Makefile itself for what you're doing with 'for x in foo/*'?
[10:17] <_ion> I.e. the Makefile syntax
[10:17] <mdke> tfheen: yes, I want to strip off the directory names
[10:18] <mdke> _ion: because I don't know what I'm doing? Anyhow, I'm happy it works now
[10:19] <tfheen> you're missing a $
[10:19] <tfheen> mdke: for x in website-index/*; do y=$(basename $$x); echo $$y ; xsltproc [...] 
[10:19] <tfheen> oh, sorry, y=$$(
[10:19] <tfheen> or `
[10:20] <mdke> yep, _ion caught it
[10:20] <mdke> thanks you guys. *hugs all*
[10:20] <tfheen> oh, yeah, _ion said it too.
[10:20] <tfheen> I'm clearly too tired.
[10:21] <mdke> Kamion: you here?
[10:27] <mdke> Kamion: emailed instead. *bed*
[10:35] <thiagocmartinsc> Ubuntu must follow DFSG ?!
[10:35] <seaLne> if wget is getting strange sizes when downloding the dvd images deom cdimage.u.c is it likely to be wget (on sarge) or the cdimage webserver?
[10:35] <seaLne> amd: -6,754,304 ppc: -78,450,688 i386: 168,402,944
[10:36] <seaLne> ^ the Length value that wget outputs while downloading
[10:37] <tfheen> seaLne: your wget is broken.  Use rsync.
[10:37] <tfheen> iirc
[10:37] <seaLne> ok, thanks
[10:38] <seaLne> rsync for cdimage never works from uni for some reason but rsync of archive is fine
[10:39] <Lure> can somebody report "grep localhost /etc/hosts" on clean Edgy install (GNOME user, no KDE installed)
[10:40] <Seveas> Lure, -EROOM, try #ubuntu+1
[10:41] <Lure> Seveas: sorry, trying to fix RC bug
[10:41] <seaLne> Lure: i don't get the hostname just the normal localhost stuff
[10:41] <_ion> Room? :-)
[10:42] <seaLne> assuming that was the bug you ment, on 2 machine installed from beta
[10:43] <Lure> seaLne: yes, bug 66813 - you do not see it unless you have static IP and you have used knetworkconf
[10:43] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 66813 in kdeadmin "kcm_knetworkconfmodule adds hostname to 127.0.0.1 line" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/66813
[10:44] <Lure> seaLne: just localhost (no localhost.localdomain)?
[10:44] <erdalronahi> Hi all, hi doko, will the openoffice.org-l10n's be updated between RC and final?
[10:44] <seaLne> Lure: both of those machine are dhcp and no knetworkconf
[10:44] <seaLne> Lure: nope
[10:44] <seaLne> localhost and ip6-localhost ip6-loopback
[10:44] <ajmitch> morning all
[10:44] <pitti> hi ajmitch 
[10:45] <ajmitch> hey pitti, how's it going?
[10:45] <pitti> ajmitch: pretty fine, RC is out of the door
[10:45] <ajmitch> good news is that I just saw an nvidia 8776 bugfix release for their driver issue :)
[10:46] <ajmitch> no crackful beta drivers needed
[10:47] <erdalronahi> Maybe pitti knows whether there will be any update of the openoffice-l10n's between RC and final?
[10:49] <seb128> pitti: I'm back, will try language packs now
[10:49] <pitti> erdalronahi: most probably not
[10:49] <pitti> seb128: *hug*
[10:49] <pitti> ajmitch: thank goodness
[10:49] <seb128> tfheen: do you moderate uploads for universe too? I'm looking for somebody to accept the kinoplus rebuild I've uploaded (it makes kino crash on startup atm and a rebuild seems to fix it)
[10:50] <erdalronahi> pitti, but thousands of translations from Rosetta are not included.
[10:50] <erdalronahi> For ku it has the upstream translations from 5 months ago
[10:50] <ajmitch> seb128: any of the motu-uvf team approves them, archive admins wave them through based on that
[10:50] <seb128> ajmitch: it's not an uvf, it's a rebuild
[10:51] <ajmitch> seb128: I know, but the team is being reused for all uploads :)
[10:51] <seb128> k
[10:51] <ajmitch> I guess infinity will be the next one awake who can approve kinoplus (please do if you see this)
[10:51] <seb128> ajmitch: so just tell whatever admin who wave to accept it :)
[10:52] <ajmitch> seb128: just did :)
[10:52] <seb128> thank you ;)
[10:55] <erdalronahi> pitty, maybe it's a but, I filed bug #67003 for that
[10:55] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 67003 in language-support-ku "Edgy: openoffice.org-l10n-ku is very outdated" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/67003
[10:56] <Kamion> doko: for *-meta, please just upload and we'll review them in the unapproved queue.
[10:58] <Kamion> ogra: doko's change is headers only, not images
[10:59] <tfheen> seb128: nok, I don't do universe
[11:00] <seb128> ok
[11:00] <seb128> I've a nautilus upload coming
[11:00] <Kamion> ajmitch,seb128: kinoplus accepted
[11:00] <seb128> it fixes a crasher which has over 200 duplicates upstream
[11:00] <seb128> trivial patch from upstream: http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/nautilus/libnautilus-private/nautilus-directory.c?r1=1.260&r2=1.261&makepatch=1&diff_format=u
[11:00] <seb128> is that ok?
[11:00] <Kamion> tfheen: is it ok for me to wave already-approved post-RC uploads through now?
[11:00] <tfheen> Kamion: I'm fine with it.
[11:01] <seb128> Kamion: thank you
[11:01] <tfheen> I'm not going to approve anything more tonight, though, I'm too tired.
[11:01] <jonh_wendell> translators have until 24h UTC to translate?
[11:01] <ajmitch> Kamion: ah thanks, didn't see you were around still :)
[11:03] <erdalronahi> pitti, have the openoffice-l10n's been updated at any time with the stuff from Rosetta?
[11:03] <erdalronahi> We haven't seen this for ku
[11:03] <pitti> erdalronahi: yes, several times
[11:04] <erdalronahi> so it *IS* a bug
[11:04] <erdalronahi> bug #67003
[11:04] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 67003 in language-support-ku "Edgy: openoffice.org-l10n-ku is very outdated" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/67003
[11:04] <erdalronahi> We have not seen ANY update through Edgy
[11:05] <erdalronahi> but we have 10.000 new translations in Rosetta
[11:11] <MoMaT> trying to rsync the RC as described here http://tinyurl.com/yzcanx
[11:11] <MoMaT> I see only the image from 2006-10-17
[11:12] <MoMaT> this mirrors of daily-live hasn't been updated to RC yet or is this 2006-10-17 the RC version?
[11:14] <TMM> hi
[11:14] <TMM> I just read the RC is released, congratulations! :)
[11:14] <TMM> but, there's a bug that I think is a large problem, also openoffice related : https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/openoffice.org/+bug/65226
[11:14] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 65226 in openoffice.org "Paste from writer to gaim in edgy segfaults writer" [Undecided,Confirmed]  
[11:15] <TMM> I am hit by this bug as well, and I commented on it, if there is anything I can do to help... but, releasing with an openoffice that b0rked is going to piss off a lot of people :)
[11:15] <erdalronahi> exactly, TMM
[11:16] <TMM> basically the only thing that is really 'wrong' I think, I've been running edgy for about 4 weeks now, and it has been very good to me :) suspending with edgy is faster than with dapper, and, it works with aiglx ;)
[11:16] <TMM> it is not just gaim too, it is any program that supports formatted text (I put that in my comment)
[11:17] <erdalronahi> Our problem is somewhat bigger. There is a huge celebration planned for the "First Kurdish Linux", and if we have no translated OpenOffice.org, that will be a disaster
[11:18] <TMM> if a downgrade to 2.0.3 is needed, for gods sake, do it ;)
[11:18] <TMM> erdalronahi: is there a translation? 
[11:18] <erdalronahi> yes, in Rosetta
[11:18] <erdalronahi> and meanwhile also upstream
[11:18] <TMM> not merged yet?
[11:19] <TMM> in edgy?
[11:19] <erdalronahi> yes
[11:19] <erdalronahi> exactly
[11:20] <TMM> hum, sad... I think edgy is frozen
[11:20] <erdalronahi> :S
[11:20] <erdalronahi> but today was also the deadline for the translations
[11:21] <Kamion> MoMaT: cdimage.ubuntu.com has daily-live/20061018
[11:21] <erdalronahi> I hoped there would be a merge, I had no idea there was a bug
[11:21] <Kamion> which == RC
[11:21] <keescook> Kamion: so we're clear to start post-RC milestone-fix uploads?
[11:21] <Kamion> keescook: yes
[11:21] <TMM> I sure hope edgy won't ship with this broken paste behaviour in OOo
[11:22] <erdalronahi> Well, the devs may not find a translation bug release-critical
[11:22] <erdalronahi> but for our team it will be a complete disaster to have 10.000 translations in Rosetta that just weren't merged into Edgy
[11:23] <Kamion> erdalronahi: talk to doko when he's around
[11:23] <tfheen> TMM: I can quite reasonably tell you it won't be fixed for edgy.
[11:23] <erdalronahi> doko, are you around?
[11:23] <Riddell> tfheen: what current procedure for uploading fixes?  upload and poke you with debdiff for approval?
[11:23] <TMM> tfheen: euh... why? isn't that release critical?
[11:24] <tfheen> TMM: is there a tested patch available?
[11:24] <erdalronahi> tfheen, if it would be fixed some days after the release we could modify a CD
[11:24] <TMM> tfheen: no, 
[11:24] <tfheen> Riddell: yes, but I'm not going to review anything before tomorrow.
[11:24] <tfheen> TMM: then there is no chance it'll be fixed.  Sorry.
[11:24] <TMM> tfheen: downgrade to 2.0.3? openoffice is just useable at all like this. one mis-middle click and you loose your work
[11:24] <Kamion> we are NOT downgrading
[11:25] <Kamion> this can be fixed post-release in edgy-updates if necessary
[11:25] <TMM> ok, I do not want to piss anyone off, but, why not? it is only a minor point release, but it does major damage
[11:26] <Kamion> downgrading is enormously intrusive. You think it's the easy option, I gather; it's not.
[11:26] <TMM> for the current testers... I understand that, deb doesn't allow for easy downgrades
[11:27] <TMM> well, apt-get doesn't ?
[11:27] <keescook> Riddell: for bug 66690, it looks like a version bump is needed to do the rebuild.
[11:27] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 66690 in speedcrunch "FTBFS in edgy, doesn't like qt4 environment?" [High,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/66690
[11:27] <Kamion> it's a sanity constraint there for very good reasons. Plus, if we can help it we're not modifying OOo at all at this point, because building it will take up a lot of valuable buildd time that frankly we need for other things. (translations are potentially a different story)
[11:28] <TMM> Kamion: so, even if I spend this weekend familiarising myself with the code, and trying to fix this, there is no change it'll make it into 6.10?
[11:28] <Riddell> keescook: thanks, I'll get onto that
[11:29] <Kamion> by the end of this weekend, the window for post-RC uploads for final will already be closed
[11:29] <TMM> this sucks
[11:29] <Kamion> but if you spend the weekend familiarising yourself with the code and preparing a patch, it can be one of the first updates to edgy
[11:29] <TMM> this is a pretty big deal
[11:29] <keescook> Riddell: I don't have -main upload perms, otherwise I'd do it myself.  :)  let me know if you want me to prep the package and put it somewhere for you to sign/upload, though.
[11:29] <TMM> Kamion: when will that be? I can guarantee that a lot of people will be pissed off
[11:30] <Kamion> however, according to the bug report, pasting into many other applications works fine
[11:30] <Kamion> TMM: do not try to coerce a schedule out of me for a patch that does not even exist yet
[11:30] <tfheen> TMM: edgy-updates opens approximately when edgy is out.
[11:30] <tfheen> maybe a week or so later.
[11:30] <Riddell> shouldn't it open before?  that's what we did with dapper
[11:30] <TMM> Kamion: I am not trying to do that :)
[11:30] <Kamion> yes you are
[11:31] <tfheen> Riddell: I don't know, I don't know if it has been decided even
[11:31] <TMM> Kamion: sorry, it was not my intention, I was just trying to explain the gravity of the situation :)
[11:31] <Riddell> keescook: probably easiest to just ask for it to be given back
[11:31] <Kamion> you're being quite obnoxious about it, frankly
[11:31] <TMM> Kamion: sorry, once again, not my intention.
[11:32] <Riddell> infinity: able to give back speedcrunch?
[11:32] <Kamion> we do understand that some bugs are release-critical, some are bad but not release-critical, and some need to wait
[11:32] <Kamion> and we must have the freedom to decide between the two based on the constraints we're under
[11:32] <Kamion> you're certainly free to try to persuade us, but ranting "this sucks" is not helpful
[11:32] <TMM> Kamion: I understand, sorry.
[11:32] <lamont> Riddell: I suspect that infinity is asleep
[11:32] <Riddell> ah lamont, you can still do that can't you 
[11:33] <Kamion> unfortunately OOo problems are very hard to fix close to release because of the enormous time it takes to build
[11:33] <lamont> Riddell: I can... not sure if I'm allowed to.  but I'll check
[11:33] <Kamion> almost anything else could still be countenanced if the fix were understood
[11:33] <TMM> Kamion: I have the nasty habit of typing subconsious 'this sucks' kind of things in IRC when my hands are on the keyboard :)
[11:33] <Kamion> please break that habit in this channel
[11:33] <TMM> Kamion: I know, sorry
[11:33] <tfheen> Riddell: given-back.
[11:35] <Riddell> thanks tfheen 
[11:35] <erdalronahi> An update for openoffice.org-l10n should not be so time consuming, right? 
[11:35] <TMM> Kamion: is the OOo shipped for ubuntu build from source? or is it repackaged official binaries? I would guess 'source' just checking
[11:35] <Kamion> erdalronahi: as I said above, that's potentially a different story, but needs doko)
[11:35] <Kamion> TMM: every single package in main and universe is rebuilt from source
[11:36] <TMM> Kamion: thought so, thanks
[11:36] <Kamion> and many (but not all) in restricted and multiverse too
[11:36] <TMM> Kamion: someone suggested that there might be a linker issue, I'll try with the official binaries, see if that still crashes, I kind of hope not :) 
[11:38] <seb128> pitti: language packs looks fine, there is a '' to a gnome-app-install french string which looks weird but I don't think that's enough to roll new packs :)
[11:39] <pitti> seb128: I can build new packs with selected manually applied corrections
[11:40] <pitti> seb128: I just want to avoid a new Rosetta tarball at that point
[11:41] <seb128> pitti: I've fixed the string on rosetta if you have an opportunity to import a new french po for gnome-app-install :)
[11:41] <pepsiman> seb128: try grepping the translated strings for _n:
[11:42] <seb128> pepsiman: ?
[11:42] <pitti> seb128: can you give me a good substring for the affected string?
[11:42] <pepsiman> seb128: KDE uses it for plural forms, it shouldn't appear in the translation
[11:42] <pitti> seb128: I can't grep properly on rookery, locale is POSIX there
[11:43] <seb128> pepsiman: is that a question you are asking me or something, I'm not sure to understand what you want
[11:43] <pepsiman> seb128: there are lots of broken kde translations in en_GB, not sure about other langs
[11:43] <seb128> pitti: 
[11:43] <seb128> msgid ""
[11:43] <seb128> "<big><b>Checking installed and available applications</b></big>\n"
[11:43] <seb128> "\n"
[11:43] <seb128> "Ubuntu and third party vendors offer you a large variety of applications "
[11:43] <seb128> "that you can install on your system."
[11:44] <seb128> pepsiman: ah, good luck with that, I don't do en_GB neither KDE
[11:44] <seb128> pitti: 
[11:44] <seb128> msgstr ""
[11:44] <seb128> "<big><b>Vrification des applications disponibles et installes</b></big>\n"
[11:44] <seb128> "\n"
[11:44] <seb128> "Ubuntu et les fournisseurs tierce-partie mettent  votre disposition une "
[11:44] <seb128> "large palette d'applications que vous pouvez installer sur votre ordinateur."
[11:44] <seb128> 
[11:44] <keescook> can someone with -main upload privs please re-sign (and upload) my fix to libx11: http://people.ubuntu.com/~kees/edgy-fixes/ (this is for bug 66776)
[11:44] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 66776 in xorg-server "[edgy]  fd leak in Xinput module " [Unknown,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/66776
[11:44] <seb128> pitti: the first line, the char before the '\n' is to drop
[11:45] <seb128> keescook: looking
[11:45] <pepsiman> seb128: same with german
[11:45] <keescook> seb128: thanks
[11:45] <seb128> pepsiman: don't do german neither ;)
[11:45] <Kamion> pepsiman: perhaps you mean to be talking to pitti, not seb128; pitti is the language packs master
[11:46] <pitti> seb128: fixed
[11:46] <pitti> keescook: wil do
[11:46] <pitti> pepsiman: will fix
[11:46] <keescook> pitti: ah, thanks.  seb128 mentioned he was looking at it too...
[11:46] <pepsiman> pitti: you have an easy way to fix all translations?
[11:46] <pitti> grrr, /me wants a proper locale on rookery
[11:47] <pitti> pepsiman: I'm a bit reluctant to do The Super Sed From Hell
[11:47] <pitti> eventually this should be fixed in Rosetta itself
[11:48] <tfheen> pitti: RT a request for more locales, then?
[11:48] <pitti> tfheen: yeah
[11:48] <pepsiman> pitti: yeah, there are several "_: " in translated strings too
[11:49] <pepsiman> msgid ""
[11:49] <pepsiman> "_: NAME OF TRANSLATORS\n"
[11:49] <pepsiman> "Your names"
[11:49] <pepsiman> msgstr ""
[11:49] <pepsiman> "_: Namen der <C3><9C>bersetzer\n"
[11:49] <pepsiman> "Ren<C3><A9> Fischer"
[11:49] <seb128> keescook: uploaded
[11:50] <pitti> ah, fine
[11:50] <keescook> er
[11:50] <seb128> heh
[11:50] <pitti> right, seb128, fix gnome harder!!!11!!oneeleven
[11:50] <Seveas> pitti, fix langpacks first!!!111
[11:51] <TMM> Kamion: this is just a hunch, but, is it at all possible, that (since someone in that bug report mentiones he can't reproduce it) there's something wrong with my mirror? I had the new edgy artwork a while ago, but now, it has reverted back to the 'old' artwork... perhaps that's a longshot, but, I think I'll try and to a full reinstall tomorrow from the rc cd..,
[11:51] <azeem> ajmitch: depends whether the "Hack while Hug" spec will be implemented in time
[11:51] <MoMaT> Kamion: you're right, there is 20061018 (also pointed by current) but edgy-desktop-i386.iso is dated 2006-10-17
[11:51] <Kamion> TMM: artwork was intentionally reverted
[11:51] <Kamion> MoMaT: that's fine, it was carried over without being rebuilt
[11:52] <TMM> Kamion: ah :) well, the release notes still show the 'new' artwork, so, that is why I thought that... 
[11:52] <Kamion> the change in 20061018 was to rebuild powerpc for a fix in the livefs build script
[11:52] <Kamion> TMM: the release notes should be fixed ...
[11:52] <MoMaT> I see. Thx.
[11:52] <TMM> Kamion: no new artwork? or just when 6.10 is released?
[11:53] <Kamion> the deadline for artwork is tomorrow
[11:53] <Kamion> we reverted in order to be sure to have a fallback option
[11:53] <TMM> ah, ok
[11:53] <TMM> well, then I won't be reinstalling :)
[11:54] <TMM> well, time for bed, again
[11:54] <TMM> later
[11:54] <TMM> and, sorry for bugging you :) I'll see if I can make any progress
[11:57] <keescook> thoughts on bug 65616? it's in universe, but it looks like it'll hold back installation of a few other universe packages.  I wrote a very small hack for it.  should I milestone that, or skip for now, given it's universeness?
[11:57] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 65616 in dbconfig-common "non-pgsql packages fail to install/upgrade" [Undecided,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65616
[11:59] <ajmitch> keescook: you have a fix for it?
[11:59] <ajmitch> universe is a little bit more open for uploads, since they won't break cds or the world
[11:59] <keescook> ajmitch: yeah, but I'm unsure if it's the best fix.  (basically, it registers the failing debconf "add"s that were introduced)
[12:00] <keescook> the upstream author didn't give me any feedback on my proposed patch, but it does fix it for me.
[12:00] <ajmitch> does it cause any issues with other packages that use dbconfig-common?
[12:01] <keescook> Not that I've found; I didn't try nagios-pgsql, though, which explicitly uses the pg stuff.
[12:01] <Kamion> that patch is reversed, confusingly
[12:01] <ajmitch> well the last message is "I'll upload asap", so I'd guess your fix is sane to upstream
[12:01] <Kamion> sounds sensible to me, too
[12:01] <keescook> oh, it is, how odd
[12:02] <Kamion> I haven't read the code in detail but it would most certainly be able to cause the reported symptoms; and registering extra debconf templates is generally harmless
[12:02] <keescook> Kamion: okay, that was basically my worry.
[12:02] <keescook> I'll get it prep'd and up for people to see the debdiff.
[12:03] <ajmitch> great
[12:08] <TMM> whaoh... 70 meg diff for OOo