/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2006/10/20/#edubuntu.txt

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BonBonTheJonstelis: how can the web proxy optimise network usage01:19
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stelisIf you have multiple clients accessing the same page then the Web cache downloads the content once01:20
stelisWhich is a big deal if you have a classroom and a small Internet connection01:20
BonBonTheJonstelis: ok, so it can cache, alright01:20
BonBonTheJonstelis: i didnt know if edubuntu did cache01:21
stelisIt doesn't unless you install a cache package01:21
stelisBut many .edu networks have a prxoy already01:21
stelisAnd Edubuntu will use it01:22
stelisIf you configure the applications01:22
BonBonTheJonstelis: does edubuntu already do filtering01:23
stelisThat list was really of network services that users need to be aware of when they install Edubuntu01:24
BonBonTheJonok01:24
stelisMany .edu networks *require* access via an existing proxy...so Edubuntu won't have Internet access unless they  configure proxy support01:25
stelisWhich is why I figured it was important01:26
stelisBonBonTheJon: FWIW, I actually use VMware for testing Edubuntu01:27
stelisYou can simulate a thin client network with Workstation01:27
BonBonTheJonoh, maybe i should try out edubuntu, lol01:28
stelisIt helps a lot :)01:28
stelisUbuntu ships QEMU01:29
stelisWhich a like Vmware but free and more fiddly01:29
BonBonTheJoncant i just download vmware and an edubuntu virtual machine01:29
BonBonTheJonstelis: see if it sounds ok so far http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27392/01:31
stelisEdubuntu has two modes: the default and "stand-alone". The default mode enables the system as an LTSP thin client server.  01:35
stelisSo you need one VM to run Edubuntu and a second to be the thin client...01:35
stelisOK.01:36
stelisReviewing is mostly ignoring the good stuff and picking up trivial errors...01:37
stelisTwo things, really:01:37
stelisYou've said "page", but this document may be either on-line or printed, so you probably need to say "section" or "document"01:38
BonBonTheJonok changed to section01:39
stelisI did say trivial :)01:39
BonBonTheJoni'm trying to leave the section more general network ideas, rather than specific to edubuntu01:39
stelisThat's probably what's wanted01:40
BonBonTheJoni figured01:40
BonBonTheJonwhat was the second thing01:40
stelisThe other is that you need to explain a new term when you introduce it, even though it may seem totally obvious01:41
stelise.g. wired and wireless01:41
BonBonTheJonlike...01:41
BonBonTheJonyeah, i haven't done those yet01:41
stelisOK, I'll shut then01:41
BonBonTheJonthanks01:41
stelis:)01:41
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lguerraRichEd: Ping02:25
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sbalneavEvening all04:34
ajmitchhi sbalneav 04:35
sbalneavHello04:35
BonBonTheJonhi04:36
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nixternalhi, i am new to linix, and me want to hack govornament campooters05:18
BonBonTheJon??05:18
nixternali have no clue05:18
nixternali just got done doing my marketing homework, so my brain is shot05:19
BonBonTheJonlol, i'm trying to study for a c programming test05:19
nixternalman..i can't wait to get to C programming...im doing all my pre-req courses now...looks like i will take my first in next summer05:20
nixternalsee...my bachelors in computer science, i emphasized on IS and Intranetworking instead of coding05:20
BonBonTheJonnixternal: i do my homework in gcc and it confuses my classmates05:20
sbalneavI've been programming in C for 20+ years.05:21
nixternalbut i had taken assembly, c, vb, and ladder logic years ago05:21
nixternaljeesh sbalneav05:21
sbalneavIt, uhh, isn't quite so exciting after that long :)05:21
BonBonTheJonnixternal: yeah, our program is mainly focused on database05:21
nixternali coded in C in the 90's05:21
nixternalnow im going back to get some more coding skills05:21
nixternalthere are 3 steps in this program im doing...there is C++, VB blah, and I cannot remember the 3rd, it might have been database stuff05:22
sbalneavheh, my first C program was a terminal program I wrote for my 300 baud modem back in 1985. Wrote it in turbo C when I was 17. :)05:22
nixternalso in this program, i will cover windows c, unix c, gui, c#, and some perl05:22
nixternali know the c isn't different, but there are a couple of seperate courses05:23
BonBonTheJonnixternal: i do my programming in nano and compile with gcc, it confuses the windows kids05:23
nixternalmy problem is i can read the code just fine, but i couldn't create a program on my own anymore...i want to get back to coding on my own and creating my own stuff05:24
nixternalgcc -ofun05:24
nixternalBonBonTheJon: it is nice to know im not the only nano freak05:24
nixternalalthough, for my text editing stuff, for instance docbook and what not, nothing beats kate for me05:25
BonBonTheJonnixternal: nano if I'm in console, kate if i have my gui05:25
nixternalgedit is nice though, but kate validates docbook and xml05:25
nixternalya BonBonTheJon, same here05:25
BonBonTheJonnixternal: great minds think alike05:25
nixternalindeed they do05:25
nixternal;)05:25
sbalneavIf you're a nano freak, that means you're 99.999999999% normal.05:25
nixternalheh05:25
sbalneavThat's a, I say, that's a JOKE son.05:26
nixternalpeople still ooh and ahh over vi, well vim05:26
nixternalbut vim is to much work05:26
sbalneavSo tell me, if you move a piece of code around, and need to move it back 2 indent levels, how does that work in nano?05:27
nixternalthats where i use kate05:27
nixternalnano is for my quick cli edit05:27
nixternals05:27
LaserJockI still haven't been able to get into kate or gedit05:30
nixternalthen what are you using?05:32
nixternalwhat are you into?05:32
LaserJockvim usually05:33
LaserJockemacs sometimes05:33
nixternalcuz you are so elite05:33
LaserJocknot really05:34
LaserJockI just can't figure out how to use the GUI editors very well05:35
nixternalyou can't figure out how to use the gui editors, but you have figured out emacs05:37
nixternalhehe05:37
LaserJockyep05:37
nixternalyou are backwards05:37
LaserJockthe GUI editors always mess me up05:38
LaserJockthe line wrapping05:38
LaserJockI can't do things like move columns05:38
nixternalya05:38
nixternalkate the line wrapping is smooth05:38
nixternalgedit it is rather crude05:39
BonBonTheJonin kate, I dont like the hashing it does for line wrapping05:39
nixternalsee, i kind of do like that...it lets you know it is line wrapped05:40
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sbalneavLaserJock: You're kinda a doco/yelp/xml sort of person, right?05:44
sbalneavWhen you're not shooting lasers at things.05:44
LaserJockwell, I'm on the doc team05:44
sbalneavCool.05:44
LaserJockso I suppose05:44
sbalneavWhat's the best way to handle menu selections.  I'm working on the handbook...05:44
sbalneavAnd I want to say something like...05:45
sbalneavOpen the System menu, and go to System -> Users and Groups05:45
sbalneavIs there a tag for that?05:45
LaserJockthe doc team has a system for that05:45
sbalneavLay it on me bro!05:45
nixternal<guimenu>System</guimenu><menuitem>Users and Groups</menuitem>05:46
sbalneavOoooh05:46
LaserJocksbalneav: do you have the doc team repo by chance?05:46
sbalneavsexxxy05:46
LaserJockwe set up files05:46
sbalneavUm, no.  I'm working on the edubuntu handbook, and that's currently off in it's own little world.05:46
LaserJockso you can do like &gedit; and it would insert the above for gedit05:47
nixternalooh, i seen my makefile booboos for the kubuntu pdf's yesterday...i refixed them, and still had booboos i overlooked..yesterday was not a good doc day for me05:47
nixternalLaserJock: i think what i will do is when i have a lot of content, im going to go through and create a handbook.ent and move a lot of stuff over to it05:47
nixternallike LTSP for one05:47
nixternalotherwise people will be trying to translate it, and making it hard on users05:48
sbalneavSo, if it was a multilevel pick, you'd do <guimenu>Applications</guimenu><guimenu>Internet</guimenu><menuitem>Naughty Pictures Of Bugs</menuitem> ?05:48
LaserJockso right now we have a gnome-menus.ent that has a line like <!ENTITY rhythmbox SYSTEM '../menus/C/rhythmbox.xml'>05:50
nixternalhrmm...05:50
BonBonTheJoncan you guys look over my introduction to networks for the handbook, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27430/05:50
BonBonTheJonits not done yet05:51
nixternal<guimenu> is the top item05:51
nixternalthen there is05:51
nixternal<guisubmenu>05:51
nixternalman..im having a hell of time thinking about this one for some reason05:51
nixternal<guimenuitem>05:51
nixternalso it goes, if im correct05:52
nixternal<guimenu>KMenu</guimenu><guisubmenu>Internet</guisubmenu><guimenuitem>Konqueror</guimenuitem>05:52
nixternalya, that looks correct05:53
sbalneavah, submenu05:53
nixternalBonBonTheJon: you rock!05:54
BonBonTheJonnixternal: since you focused on networks I thought you could look over it05:54
nixternalvery nice clean code05:54
BonBonTheJonkate is good!05:55
nixternalthat it is05:55
nixternal<important> tag, dont' think i have used that one much05:55
BonBonTheJonnixternal: someone else sent me the little part they did as a start, and it was in there05:56
nixternalahh05:56
nixternalgood validation it seems as well05:56
LaserJock!pastebin05:57
nixternalpastebin.ubuntu-nl.com05:57
nixternali think05:57
nixternal.org05:57
nixternalhttp://pastebin.ubuntu-nl.org05:57
nixternalthere you go lazy05:57
BonBonTheJonlook up, i just posted one05:58
LaserJockhttp://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27432/05:59
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nixternaloh ya, i forgot about menuchoice06:01
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nixternalwoudn't this be correct though ->  http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27434/06:02
sbalneavSo, I'm thinking of moving from Firefox to Epiphany.  Can anyone give me a cogent reason not to?06:04
nixternalnope06:04
nixternalhehe06:04
crimsunmemory requirement would be the only thing I could think of.06:05
^Ghost2Uanyone install opera on dapper?06:05
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Burgundavia^Ghost2U: my brother has06:11
LaserJockI installed it06:11
Burgundaviasbalneav: do you use many ff extensions?06:11
sbalneavNope.06:11
Burgundaviacrimsun: memory usage is less with ephy06:11
Burgundaviacurrently one of the main nice things about ephy is broken, due to mozilla's crap code06:11
Burgundavianormally you can search for the main bar, but right now it is busted06:12
LaserJocksbalneav: I don't like how it epi handles URL editing06:12
LaserJockbut other then that it seems cool06:12
BurgundaviaLaserJock: url editing?06:12
^Ghost2UI'm trying to but it's saying sudo won't allow the install06:12
LaserJockBurgundavia: you know. editing a previous URL06:12
nixternalBurgundavia: is it possible to set the address bar to use tab to autocomplete instead of loosing focus on the address bar?06:12
LaserJockI talked with you once06:12
crimsunwrt editing URLs, I'm convinced that epiphany-browser has it correct, whereas opera/ff/etc. have it broken.06:13
Burgundavianixternal: no idea06:14
Burgundavialosing focus is one of the most annoying bugs ephy has06:14
nixternali have jsut gotten so used to hitting tab to autocomplete, and i hate when i loose focus with epiphany doing so06:14
Burgundaviathe ephy devs have to do a lot of hacking around moz stupidness06:14
LaserJockcrimsun: I know you do but I just can't figure out how to do things efficiently otherwise06:14
nixternali wonder why, since it is in moz06:14
Burgundaviabecause it is moz06:14
nixternalbut then again, i heard crazy stuff about getting tree view in konversation06:14
Burgundaviamoz as a platform generally sucks, unless you are using xul and all their secret sauce06:15
nixternalheh, obviously you haven't messed with KHTML06:15
^Ghost2Ucan someone tell me why i cannot install the opera deb pkg for ubuntu dapper?06:15
nixternalit would make you love internet explorer06:15
Burgundavia^Ghost2U: out of the repos?06:16
crimsunit works fine out of dapper-commercial06:16
LaserJock^Ghost2U: I'd use Canonical's dapper-commercial repo06:16
^Ghost2Uoff of opera's mirror06:17
LaserJockcrimsun: why do think epi's got it right? it seems odd to me but I'm sure I can be convinced06:17
^Ghost2Uquote: The underlying authorization mechanism (sudo) does not allow you to run this program. Contact your syste, administrator06:18
crimsunLaserJock: well, first it's just my opinion. second, I tend to use bookmarks far more often than editing URLs in-place.06:18
LaserJockcrimsun: that would make a difference. I don't use *any* bookmarks really06:19
^Ghost2Uok.. assume I'm totally ignorant of retreiving from the repos (I am), what to do?06:19
LaserJockI find bookmarks somewhat annoying06:19
nixternalsvn commit -m "The Feisty Fawn - 7.04 is in the repos - sorry, I was iching to do this one ;)"06:20
nixternalSending        libs/global.ent06:20
nixternalwoo0t06:20
nixternalwould have been nice if i was in the doc channel like i had planned06:20
nixternalim glad i can spell itching as well06:20
crimsun^Ghost2U: echo "deb http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu main dapper-commercial" |sudo tee -a /etc/apt/sources.list && sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get install opera06:20
LaserJockI have FF, epi, opera, and konqi and I don't particularly like any of them so I just bounce between them06:26
nixternalya, same here06:29
nixternali hate to say it, but i think ie6 takes the cake for browsers06:29
nixternalexcept the fact that it doesn't tab, but there are hacks to fix that06:29
^Ghost2Ucrimsun: permission problem with tee command to sources.list06:30
LaserJockie6? have you gone nuts?06:31
^Ghost2Ufile attrib 644 owner root group root06:31
LaserJock:-)06:31
crimsun^Ghost2U: did you copy and paste the entire command verbatim?06:31
^Ghost2Unix: you wold be joking, right?06:31
^Ghost2Uwould06:31
nixternali would hope so, as it has been years since i last used ie06:32
nixternal;)06:32
nixternalmy brain is shot right now, and im not quick on my feet with the sarcasm it seems06:33
LaserJocknah, it was good06:33
crimsunin other news, rich is a gnome convert.06:33
crimsunswore off all kde apps two hours ago06:33
nixternaloh crimsun do not spread those lies06:33
LaserJockdarn, I'm gullible today06:33
nixternali will be hung06:33
nixternalalthough, i do like edubuntu ;)06:34
LaserJockwhy?06:34
nixternalwhy what?06:34
^Ghost2Uwell, no errors, but not sure if it's doing anything either06:34
LaserJockwhy would you be hung?06:34
nixternaloh, could you imagine me using gnome, while writing the karbon 14 docs for kde06:34
nixternali would use windows before i would use gnome ;)06:35
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^Ghost2Ucrimsun: can't... ubuntu box is another pc06:35
LaserJocknixternal: how odd, really06:36
nixternalso odd, that...06:36
nixternali failed on that one06:37
crimsunnixternal: (not really -- most of the patches I make are done in a putty session)06:37
nixternalbut crimsun, that is probably because you are working on ubuntu from "work" which is probably all ms06:37
nixternalso you have a reason, or an excuse06:37
crimsunit's because I'm working on the next Ubuntu killer!!06:38
crimsunerr, yeah.06:38
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^Ghost2Uhmm06:40
^Ghost2Uopera doesn't appear in sources.list06:40
crimsunit's not supposed to appear in sources.list06:40
^Ghost2Uok06:40
crimsundapper-commercial is the "pocket"; opera appears in that "pocket"06:41
crimsunyou can see with ``apt-cache policy opera''06:41
^Ghost2Uunable to locate opera06:42
^Ghost2UW: unable to locate package opera06:43
crimsundid you add the dapper-commercial pocket and then update?06:43
^Ghost2Ui banged out the commands verbatim06:44
^Ghost2Uassume i'm new to edubuntu06:45
^Ghost2Ubut not entirely new to linux06:45
Dheeraj_kuhi is it possible to install all the package of fedora4 on ubuntu?06:46
crimsun^Ghost2U: sudo apt-get update06:46
^Ghost2Uno traffic / activity on my modem nor hdd06:50
crimsunDheeraj_ku: what do you mean?06:53
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crimsun^Ghost2U: pastebin your /etc/apt/sources.list06:54
crimsunhttp://pastebin.ca , please06:54
sbalneavWell, I'm heading to bed.  Night all!06:57
^Ghost2Ucrimsun: post is 21113007:01
LaserJock^Ghost2U: it doesn't look like the dapper-commercial repo was added07:07
LaserJock^Ghost2U: maybe try sudo gedit /etc/apt/sources.list in a terminal07:08
LaserJockand add the following line:07:08
LaserJockdeb http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu dapper-commercial main07:09
LaserJockand then save it and run sudo apt-get update in the terminal07:10
^Ghost2Uok07:12
LaserJockonce you've done that you should be able to run sudo apt-get install opera07:14
^Ghost2Unow we're getting somewhere07:18
^Ghost2U:)07:18
^Ghost2Uwas getting some weird stuff from thin client when trying the previous stuff07:19
^Ghost2UI was actually on the client atempting to run install07:20
^Ghost2Usweet!07:28
^Ghost2Uit's installed07:28
^Ghost2ULaserJock: thanks a bunch! .. gotta crash, it's almost 2AM here, and i gotta be up in 4 hrs07:29
LaserJockok, glad it worked07:29
^Ghost2Ulater laser :)07:34
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RichEdmorning l08:17
RichEdlet's try that again : morning ladies & gents08:18
highvoltagemorning RichEd!08:18
RichEdhi highvoltage 08:18
highvoltagewe should actually all chime together like a classroom... moor-ning-mis-ter-rich-ed08:18
RichEdI meant me try that again ... I had to clear my keyboard ... the l stutter :)08:19
RichEdspeaking of kiddies greeting teacher ... here's a friday feelgood link from ogra last night:08:20
RichEdhttp://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=28019308:20
freet15greeting08:20
highvoltageRichEd: I've put it on the Edubuntu website and submitted to fridge :)08:20
highvoltagehi freet15 08:21
RichEdgreat :)08:21
freet15:) now , It`s 2:30 PM in  Beijing China08:21
highvoltagefreet15: it's only 08:21 in South Africa, we still have a long hard day ahead of us08:22
freet15Highvoltage: so... morning for you  ;)08:22
freet15highvoltage:Nice to meet you08:23
highvoltagefreet15: :)08:26
pips1good morning/day/evening/night to everyone 08:28
freet15pips1: :) so powerfull~~08:29
pips1RichEd: did lguerra manage to speak to you yesterday?08:29
pips1freet15: ni hao ma?08:30
freet15:) ni hao, where are you?08:30
pips1Switzerland08:31
highvoltagemornign pips1 08:32
freet15pips1: beautiful country ~ 08:33
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pips1freet15: ni shi xuesheng ma?08:43
RichEdhi ... back after an adsl reset ... freet did you comment on this ? I may have missed your response.08:43
RichEdpips1: so to add to your other skills ... do you speak mandarin as well ?08:44
freet15pips1:not yet, your are chinese?!08:44
pips1freet15: no, I'm just bluffing ;-)08:45
freet15RichEd: no, we just  greet to each other. 08:45
freet15;)08:46
RichEdI am glad he is making you feel welcome here.08:46
freet15:)08:47
pips1freet15: I spent 2 months in hangchow learning mandarin, but that was 18 years ago, and with no practise, I forgot everything :-/08:51
freet1518 years ago? *), I`m just a children that time! 08:52
pips1erm hangzhou, rather08:52
pips1yes, I was 1508:52
freet15sorry, a litter busy....I was run off my feet today,08:56
freet15see you later, guys09:01
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pips1so cool, found an english-mandarin (pinyin) online dictionary http://hua.umf.maine.edu/php/search.php09:11
pips1oh, there are lots of them, ok ( http://hua.umf.maine.edu/php/search.php )09:12
pips1^^^ sorry, http://chinalinks.osu.edu/cdict.htm09:13
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pips1in xchat-gnome, is there a way to enable automatic local logging?09:37
pygimorning09:42
pips1hey09:43
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willvdlhi cbx3310:40
RichEdcbx33 willvdl g'mornin'10:41
cbx33hey RichEd 10:41
cbx33I discovered a mad bug whilst looking for those menus10:41
cbx33;)10:41
cbx33vmware had created nested directories up to about 128 levels10:42
cbx33I knew there was something amiss10:42
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lucasvoanyone know how to edit shortcuts in FF10:45
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willvdllucasvo, meaning?10:55
lucasvowillvdl: I want to disable the alt+s shortcut10:55
willvdlah. the help files don't say anything10:57
pips1lucasvo: did you have a look at the about:config yet?11:07
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ograpips1, did you send me the syslog ?11:48
ograi see no mails here11:49
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cbx33mornin ogra 11:51
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pips1wow12:02
pips1that went like really really well.. xchat on windows. :-/12:02
pips1ack12:03
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pips1sorry for the noise, folks12:04
ograpips1, did you send me the syslog ?12:06
ograi see no mail here12:06
pips1yes i did.. should i re-send?12:07
ograhmm, i didnt get it12:08
pips1sent to ogra at ubuntu dot com, 19.10.2006 16:4912:08
=== pips1 re-sends
pips1the syslog attachment is about 0.6 MB... big, but shouldn't be a problem, really12:12
cbx33did you tar it up pips1 ?12:17
=== pips1 blushes
cbx33heheh12:17
=== cbx33 pokes pips1
cbx33heheh12:17
ograpips1, did you have wires connected to both interfaces ?12:17
ogras/wires/swithces or hubs/12:17
pips1yes12:17
ograOct 19 12:42:46 kernel: [   99.532168]  eth0: no link during initialization.12:17
ograOct 19 12:42:46 netcfg[12754] : WARNING **: couldn't determine MII ioctl to use for eth0  12:17
ograthats the only thing that doesnt look kosher12:17
cbx33dodgy cable?12:17
cbx33how are you today ogra 12:17
cbx33got time for a little SCP chat later?12:17
ograyep, a bit later ... i'm still running DVD tests ...12:18
cbx33ok sure np12:18
=== cbx33 is preparing a 3 course excel traning session *shudder*
cbx33i have till the end of the day :p12:18
pips1I did try replacing one of the cables, but I didn't replace the cable from the server to the switch.. I was assuming there is a connection, because the lights on the switch are lit up12:19
ograooooh, wait12:19
ogrado you use 192.168.0.XXX for your internet access network ?12:20
pips1i don't thinks so, my router is 192.168.1.112:20
ogracan you check that ?12:20
=== pips1 fires up the edubuntu server
ograthere is one case where the autconfiguration doesnt do anything, that is if the 192.168.0 range is already used for the other inbterface12:21
pips1ic12:21
RichEdhi ogra, quick question following up on my default application question yesterday ... what is the name of the files used to configure the menu [ Applications ]  [ Places ]  [ System ] 12:22
RichEdogra: and nice feelgood story about the pre-school :)12:22
ograRichEd, the .desktop files in /usr/share/applications/ define the menu entries12:23
RichEd:) thanks12:23
pips1in my router config, it says local network ip address 192.168.1.112:23
pips1can I double check from the server somehow?12:23
ograhmm12:23
ograifconfig -a 12:23
ograsee if the interface has a  192.168.1 address12:24
pips1eth0 doesn't have an ip set, eth1 is on 192.168.0.6 <-- ?!12:26
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pips1^^^ why is eth1 on 192.168.0.6, I thought it would be 192.168.1.x, or not?12:29
=== stelis [n=se@82-71-4-26.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #edubuntu
pips1ogra, doesn't the edubuntu server internet facing interface get an ip from my router's dhcp range (which is 192.168.1.33 to 63)?12:33
stelispips1: Mine does12:34
stelisIt's a development release...12:34
stelisFWIW12:34
=== pips1 is obviously confused about the whole networking thing with gateway, dhcp, ...
stelisstelis: I was12:35
pips1heh12:35
stelisI discovered that solution was to leave it alone12:35
pips1:)12:35
stelisAnd Edubuntu do what it wanted12:35
stelisMy router uses 192.168.1.0 network12:36
stelisAnd Edubuntu uses 192.168.0.012:36
stelisI screwed it up trying to customise it the first ime arounds12:36
stelisI notice that settings a static address for the external connection12:37
stelisDoesn't seem to set the default gateway12:37
pips1hmm12:38
stelisWhat's your current setup?12:38
pips1hardware or software setup?12:38
stelisnetwork, I guess12:39
stelisYou should have a router with DHCP, and Edubuntu system with 2 interfaces, right?12:39
pips1internet - adsl modem/router - hub - edubuntu server - switch - thin client12:39
stelisIs that a separate hub?12:40
pips1yes12:40
pips1separate?12:40
stelisNot built-in to the router itself12:40
pips1yes, separate12:40
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pips1I connect to the hub with my laptop, so I can stay connected to IRC while testing12:41
stelisSo DHCP is probably OK on the router12:41
pips1yes12:41
stelisOK, so the issue is with the interface configuration on Edubuntu...12:42
pips1ah, let me check the ip i currently have on my laptop12:42
pips1my laptop, coming from the hub, has ip 192.168.0.312:43
stelisThat may be the issue12:43
pips1while I thought it would get an ip from my routers dhcp range...12:43
pips1hmm12:43
stelisYou need two separate networks12:44
pips1what the heck is my router doing?12:44
stelisThe router's network needs to be different from Edubuntu's12:44
stelisIn other words...12:44
stelisNot 192.168.0.012:44
pips1yes12:45
stelisTry resetting your router to use something different12:45
stelisLike 192.168.5.0/255.255.255.012:45
=== RichEd is out for 20 mins
pips1but i wonder why it's 192.168.0.x since my router configuration is telling me that its ip address is 192.168.1.1 and its dhcp range is 192.168.1.33 - 63 ?12:46
stelisYou've got two DHCP servers12:46
pips1correct12:47
stelisYou're laptop is picking up from Edubuntu12:47
pips1on on the router, the other one on the edubuntu server12:47
stelisRather than the router12:47
pips1that's strange12:48
stelisThe question is which Edubuntu itself is using for configuring it's interfaces...12:48
stelisYou can only safely have one DHCP server on a given network segment12:48
pips1right12:48
stelisWhich raise the question of why my setup works :)12:49
ogrado you have bo0th cards plugged in the same switch/hub or something like that ?12:49
stelisMy setup is more funky...12:49
pips1ogra, no12:49
stelisI have a DSL router with DHCP, a laptop running Vmware12:49
ograthe edubuntu dhcp shouldnt see the other one ...12:50
stelisThe Edubuntu network is virtual with VMware12:50
pips1ogra, yes, but there seems something bizarre going on here12:50
ograyeah12:50
stelisogra: would it be possible for the Edubuntu default to be different?12:50
stelisSince network routers default to 192.16.8.012:51
ograifr they are physically parted networks, you shouldnt see the 192.168.0 net from your laptop if its attached to the router12:51
stelisI wonder about the hub that pip1 has12:51
ograstelis, yes, thats planned for later ... we had this default for quite some time, so i didnt want to force the switch yet12:52
pips1it's a shitty old hub12:52
stelisCould you remove it and see what happens?12:52
pips1some no name crap12:52
ograwhats the ip setup of your edubuntu server ?12:52
stelisogra: OK, great12:52
ograpaste ifconfig -a somewhere12:52
ograand i assume you didnt change your /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf12:53
pips1ogra, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27459/12:53
pips1no, I did change it12:54
ograeth1 is connected to the outside world ?12:54
ograand eth0 isnt connected at all ...12:55
pips1I think so... how can I double check, to see if my pci card is eth0?12:55
ograi bet youre network cables are plugged in flipped12:55
pips1ifconfig only has the mac address, rather than harware vendor info...12:56
=== pips1 looks at lspci
ograflip tha cables and reboot th eedubuntu server 12:57
ograi bet it works then12:57
ogra*the12:57
pips1flip what cables?12:57
ograon the edubuntu server12:57
pips1ok, i'll try12:58
pips1ogra, now I don't have internet connection on the server01:01
ograintresting01:01
ograi wonder if you have a third dhcpd running somewhere01:02
pips1and neither network interface has an ip01:02
pips1ahhh!01:02
ogrado you ?01:02
pips1possibly01:02
pips1I have a hardware firewall that might be running a dhcp on it's own!01:02
ograwell, that would be it ... flip the cables back, find the other dhcpd and fix the edubuntu net setup :)01:03
pips1so, in fact I got: internet - asdl modem/router w dhcp - hw firewall w dhcp - hub - edubuntu server01:04
pips1ack!01:04
ograok01:04
pips1so I got a chain of dhcp servers01:04
ografor feisty i'll regenerate the ip config if 192.168.0 is found01:04
pips1=8-O01:04
ograthen it would work even in that setup01:04
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pips1aren't all those nifty home networking appliances cool ? ;-)01:05
pips1each with it's very own dhcp server01:05
stelisThey Just Work :)01:05
pips1well01:06
stelisBut not together :)01:06
pips1hehe01:06
ogra:)01:06
=== pips1 tries to find his hw firewall manual
ograso your non working install was actually not a bug but a known missing feature in the design, thats calming :)01:08
pips1so ogra, should i try to re-configure my hw firewall's dhcp, or should i re-configure my edubuntu server? what do you think?01:08
pips1right...01:10
ograi'd kill the dhcpd on the firewall01:10
cbx33yikes lots of activity here :001:10
pips1I hope it'l have that option01:10
ograwell, you said it worked in former installs, just change back what you changed since then ;)01:10
steliscbx33: we defeated the problem for force of numbers01:10
cbx33heheh01:10
cbx33hi stelis not seen you aroung here?01:10
stelisThis is about day 6 as an Edubuntu user01:11
stelisI've been around just since the beginning of the week01:11
stelisIt's very cool stuff01:12
stelisI used to  run a diskless workstation network for a school01:12
cbx33ahhh nice01:12
stelisWe had to "upgrade"01:12
stelisNt 401:12
stelisOne giant step forward for MS01:12
stelisOne massive step back for us01:12
=== pips1 tries to remember if he even ever had a manual for the hw firewall
stelisIt's great to see that LTSP seems to be bringing it back01:14
cbx33yeh01:14
cbx33edubuntu rocks01:14
stelisI get the impression that Edubuntu is kind of new?01:18
=== pips1 can be heard cursing at this hw firewall in the background
stelisFetch the hammer :)01:18
RichEdstelis: April 2005 was its birth month01:18
=== pips1 tries to guess the password for his hw firewall
stelisRichEd: I'm just behind then :)01:18
stelisRichEd: I hope that the mail to ubuntu-education was helpful01:18
RichEdAh ... did you send that mail ... it was great thanks !01:18
stelisI looked at it this morning and thought01:19
stelis"That's a touch ranty"01:19
RichEdThose are exactly the sort of issue we share in comon across products and want to share and discuss !01:20
stelisBut yeah, the list price of software is not the real issue for Colleges01:20
RichEdHere's the coment I added, before pasting a chunk into the #ubuntu-education channel:01:20
RichEd<paste>01:20
RichEdAn excerpt from a post to the list this morning ... something which never occured to me, but an issue I understand well from my "commercial days" and my 3rd degree allergy to paperwork asset registers and audit trails:01:20
stelisSo "Open Source is cheaper" is not an effective pitch, IMHO01:20
RichEd<paste>01:20
highvoltagestelis: I'm with you on that last one. there are also much better reasons to go with OSS :)01:23
stelisI had an anecdote about switching to an OSS product solely because the vendor's licencing strategy made it so difficult for us to do the right thing01:23
stelisWe wanted to give them their money :)01:23
RichEdstelis: mail it to me directly if you still have it in mind.01:23
stelishighvoltage: true01:23
stelisRichEd: Will do01:24
RichEdAnd in general ... its not just the school world that has admin nightmares looking after licences and renewals and papwerwork. I would guess that in some organisations the cost of the admin time (and systems) might even outweigh the licence fees.01:24
stelisRichEd: for utility software definitely01:24
stelisTrivial stuff like FTP clients and CD writing software01:24
stelisThe bundled Windows apps are not sufficient 01:25
stelisSo we have to pile more software on top01:25
=== jinty [n=jinty@135.Red-80-37-34.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #edubuntu
stelisSome of which only costs $20 on something a go01:25
stelisBut decision-makers don't understand why it's necessary01:26
RichEd(and SQL client access licenses and such like)01:26
stelisAnd it means more vendors to deal with 01:26
stelisRichEd: Yes01:26
stelisThe nickle-and-dime stuff01:26
RichEdAnd factor in the cost of work interruption when the piracy police come with the forensic microscope and rubber gloves.01:27
stelisIt rarely happens but there is a dedicated shop your boss telephone line01:27
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stelisAn unhappy employee could score money and a bit of revenge just by ringing the BSA01:28
stelisAt any time01:28
stelisSo we have to be water-tight01:28
=== RichEd nods ... here in SA as well ... and sometimes the piracy police visit the Universities ... and any package that any student has installed for use once off, even against the policies of the uni, gets added to the invoice.
stelisI wondered about the dialling code on your phone number01:31
stelisI'm in the UK01:31
pips1_RichEd, really?! wow01:31
cbx33stelis/......ooooh me too01:31
cbx33whereare you based?01:31
stelisWales01:31
RichEdI'm in Cape Town, South Africa01:31
=== cbx33 is in Southampton
stelisBeyond the borders of civilisation01:32
stelisA southerner!01:32
stelis(from Yorkshire originally)01:36
stelisRichEd: Is Ubuntu doing well there?01:36
RichEdstelis: short answer ... no better or wose than elsewhere ... we do not have a stong open source general mindset ... but we have strong pockets of motivated individuals01:36
stelisThat sounds a lot like the UK01:36
cbx33stelis01:36
cbx33yup01:36
stelisIt's disappointing01:36
cbx33indeed01:36
RichEdwe have had a good wide scale deployment of ICT in schools over the last 3 years, but the first round of installs and training were MS based ... and now there is an embedded base to turn-around.01:36
cbx33it's nice to find another uk person01:36
steliscbx33: This global thing is mind-blowing01:36
RichEdAs a whole, Ubuntu (and open source) is being embraced by developing nations where there is little invested capex and market forces are not yet mature. 01:36
cbx33stelis....yeh it is01:37
steliscx33: You probably are the first UK OSS person I've met here01:37
pips1_capex?01:37
RichEdSo if you look eastwards, we see numbers like 300,000 OEM installs.01:37
stelisRichEd: That sounds brilliant01:37
stelisOur problem is that government agencies specify Windows-only solutions01:37
stelisAnd say that there is no demand for Linux support01:38
cbx33stelis...heheh01:38
stelisCircular arguments01:38
stelispip1: Capital expenditure01:39
pips1_stelis, ta01:39
stelisMoney sunk in licences and Windows-only hardware...01:39
stelis"We've spent the money so we'll keeping using what doesn't work"01:40
stelishead, meet wall01:40
pips1_yeah, there are huge amounts of money sunk into licencse alone. here in the municipalities in Switzerland..01:40
stelispips1_: The numbers are scary01:42
willvdlstelis, civil societies in africa are genrally quite pro-OSS01:42
stelisYou could fund all of Ubuntu on what gets wasted01:42
pips1_a recent study in switzerland showed that the licences alone account for 47% of the municipalities' IT expenses01:42
cbx33stelis too true01:43
steliswillvdl: I don't not much about non-profits here01:43
stelispips1: Do you have a link?01:43
stelisI collect advocacy articles01:43
willvdladditionally, the blossoming mobile comms market in Africa is looking critically at linux backends, db services, convergence etc01:43
willvdlstelis, you may then just be my new best friend :)01:44
steliswillvdl: I'm convinced that Linux will prbably win by killing desktop PCs 01:44
pips1_stelis, the information available online about that study is meagre, and german only01:44
stelisAnd replacing with OLPC andthin clients, and appliance type stuff01:45
willvdlthat is the question isn't it?01:45
willvdlkiosk mode desktops for specific applications01:45
stelispips1_: OK. Thanks01:45
steliswillvdl: Everything else is unmanageable IMO01:45
stelisI see Windows-based ATMs01:45
stelisBecause that's what developers, know01:46
RichEdstelis: cbx33 and I were looking at taking an approach in the UK as follows to counter the issues you raise ...01:46
RichEd<paste warning>01:46
stelisBut they are horrific01:46
RichEd> "If we look back from 5 years into the future, Open Source is01:46
RichEd> a reality which will be used to some extent in UK Schools.01:46
RichEd> 01:46
RichEd> Arguments about whether Open Source or Microsoft will dominate01:46
RichEd> are not relevant. Arguments about whether or not to throw out01:46
RichEd> Microsoft in favour of Linux are also not on the table.01:46
RichEd> 01:46
RichEd> What is relevant is that there needs to be some investigation01:46
RichEd> into the impact of some Open Source on an existing schools01:46
RichEd> network:01:46
RichEd> 01:46
RichEd> 1. Open Source workstations first01:46
RichEd> = interacting with the Windows network01:46
RichEd> 2. then Open Source servers01:46
RichEd> = allowing MS workstations to interact with them"01:46
RichEd> 01:46
RichEd> We hope then to get to demonstrate to the "MS flavour support01:46
RichEd> people and the decision making powers" that Open Source:01:46
RichEd> 1. has a place within UK Education right now01:46
RichEd> 2. is not a future big bang issue or 100% change over issue01:47
RichEd> 3. is not as scary or complex as it seems from the outside01:47
stelisRichEd: I would take a different line of attack01:47
RichEdeven if we started a schools SIG for maths and science and open source programming with a few Edubuntu w/s in many schools, it may start a change in mindeset.01:47
=== RichEd is *always* prepared to listen
stelisWhich may seem slightly out of scope, but IMO is vital01:47
stelisOK: What absolutely locks us into Windows are a handful of key applications01:48
stelisLike electronic exam systems and certified student tracking systems01:48
stelisFunding boaides and exam boards say we *must* run these01:49
pips1_student tracking system = ?01:50
stelisEnrolments01:50
willvdllike schooltool...emis, sams01:50
steliswillvdl: not quite01:50
pips1_right01:50
pips1_stelis ?01:50
stelisAs a College we are paid by results01:50
stelisWe must deliver paperwork to funding bodies that who was enrolled, on what courses, and what the outcomes were01:51
stelisThere are only a small number of vendors selling applications to track and process this information01:51
willvdlstelis, other lock-ins include existing skill-sets, 01:51
stelisWe pay them a lot and run what they tell us to 01:51
steliswillvdL: Yes, but this is what shuts out even Linux desktops01:52
stelisAnd Macs01:52
willvdland the cost of migration01:52
stelisAnd anything that will not run the client portions01:52
pips1_yep01:52
willvdlagreed. the initial costs are qhat scare decision makers01:52
steliswillvdl: You are slightly ahead of me01:53
willvdland not the long-term benefits01:53
stelisLet me try to explain this01:53
=== ^GhostZzZz is now known as ^Ghost2U
stelisI can potentially offer a desktop, Web browser, and office suite on any platform01:53
^Ghost2UMornin' all01:53
=== ^Ghost2U yawns and stretches
stelisWe use MS Office because everybody is familiar with it, but there are ways to work on that01:54
willvdlagreed01:54
stelisWhat kills any alternative desktop is the hard requirement to run Windows for exam software, courseware, and data porcessing apps01:55
stelisWe have have to run exactly the application that we are told to01:55
ograwell, in edgy+1 we'll have full rdesktop support in ltsp ... so you can use one edubuntu ltsp server, one windows terminal server and got thze best of both worlds01:55
ograand are still able to maintain everything centralized on the two servers01:55
=== pips1_ thinks that the new gui of forthcoming ms office might offer a window of opportunity for open office
stelisogra: That's really important, but there's another piece to this...01:55
willvdlstelis, ah, in the UK schooling context that is?01:56
stelisI'm talking about both schools and colleges01:56
stelisOK: the thing that I think is critical...01:57
stelisThe vendors themselves have been moving to Web-based server applications 01:57
=== pips1_ is not surprised to hear that the UK gov works with "authorised" applications only for their demographics reporting
stelisTypically: a Windows server with SQL Server or Oracle with IIS 01:58
stelisAnd ActiveX controls that require IE on Windows on the desktop01:58
willvdlIn SA, our national dept of Ed has a SAMS/EMIS/Learner tracking requirement too. They provide a (DB) framework but can not enforce provincial decisions as to what tools to use.01:58
RichEdstelis: while I agree with all of your arguments, the situation above describes a corner we get painted into ... make your software do exactly what our software does, and then we will consider changing to FOSS ... and this can lead to:01:59
RichEd* the feared either or situation01:59
willvdlBut they do make one tool available free of charge to all schools nationally, a windows based app01:59
stelisRichEd: Here's my suggestion01:59
stelisThe next generation of Open Source Web application frameworks are objectively better than .NET02:00
RichEd* FOSS having to show that it can do *exactly* what is already being done (down to particualr app) instead of tackling the education need in a generic fashion02:00
stelisAnd the vendors don't actually care02:00
stelisThey could migrate to say TurboGears  or Rails02:00
stelisTheir developers would benwfit02:01
pips1_I read that on your post on the mailing list... and it got me thinking too... I agree that there is a big move towards webbased user interfaces and that we should make sure that open source offers usable solutions in that area... 02:01
stelisAnd as a side-effect, the applications would be platform neutral02:01
stelisAgain the vendors are Windows only because portability takes effort02:01
willvdlpips1_, the developing world is _not_ that well suited to centralised services though02:01
stelisA TurboGears app can run on either Linux or Windows server02:02
pips1_willvdl, right02:02
stelisAnd the client could be any browser02:02
willvdlif you look at african movements towards localisation and translation02:02
stelisSo OSS support would be a side-effect of better tools02:02
willvdlthe successful efforts are all distributed02:03
willvdlstelis, food for thought02:03
stelisIf Canonical can support and promote a Web application framework02:03
stelisYou can encourage migration to both dedicated servers intially02:04
stelisand break the locks that keep out OSS desktops02:04
stelisMany of these apps run on a separate server02:04
stelisSupplied by the vendor02:04
stelisThey run Windows for SQL Server and .NET, bu they could run Ubuntu02:05
stelisWithout impacting the rest of the network at all02:05
stelisAgain the vendors will go for the platform that is easiest for them02:06
stelisAnd Linux also virtualizes better than Windows02:06
stelisAnd you can run a Linux box without having to think about separate AV or backup software02:07
stelisWhich they have to ship on their dedicated app servers today02:07
stelisAnd that's my idea really02:08
pips1_stelis, maybe you are overrating the quality of current FOSS web frameworks... dunno.02:08
stelispips1_: True, but they suck less then Oracle and Java02:08
stelisAnd Rails is fashionable02:08
willvdland have a lower barrier to entry02:09
stelisDevelopers want these tools02:09
stelisAs they wanted .NET and SQL Server02:09
stelisBecause those were the most painless ways to build applications02:09
stelisThis point applies to internally-developed applications as well02:10
ograrails might be fashionable, but if you will see a canonical pushed framework it will rather be zope/python i guess02:10
stelisogra: True. But that's an example02:10
pips1_I mean, the communities of Rails and TurboGears are so small compared to visual studio / .NET crowd..02:10
stelisAnd Rails is making the idea of frameworks visible to developers02:11
stelisRails is growing insanely rapidly - with regional conferences springing up etc.02:11
stelisAnd people that know Rails can grok TurboGears02:13
stelisTurboGears + PostgreSQL on Ubuntu can do most or all of what the applications need 02:13
stelisWithout the headaches that Windows and MS bring02:13
stelisI probably sound like a stuck record02:14
=== RichEd is in agreement with the general gist above, but still feels we can get some linux workstations into existing networks now, to be useful in education from angles other than existing entrenched applications and functions.
pips1_ogra, judging from the last Europython conference, unfortunately a lot of balkanisation has happened... with the Zope2 Zope3 split, and the new frameworks like TurboGears and Django...02:14
stelisRichEd: I guess that you have to determine your target audience02:14
stelisActive Directory management is a powerful disincentive to alternate platforms02:15
stelisAnd again, ActiveX etc. kill the use of Linux02:15
RichEdstelis: yes ... bear in mind I'm advocating both approaches, not an either or ... tackle from both ends.02:16
stelisI'm not sure that this works02:16
stelisI'm sorry to sound a bit stubborn, but this is my job :)02:17
stelisHere's the scenario that kills Edubuntu use02:17
RichEdI'll take it to be conviction, and not subbornness.02:17
RichEd*stubborness02:17
stelisI am a little passionate about this :) 02:17
RichEdwe all are ... or else we wouldn't be here :)02:18
stelisAnyhow, my problem is that whilst you can use Edubuntu to enable advocates to push for change02:18
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stelisYou can't maintain those beachheads02:18
stelisEventually an exam board or funding body will mandate applications or on-line services that are Windows-only02:19
stelisAnd the Linux desktops will either have to be reverted02:19
jsgotangcoyo!02:20
pips1_so stelis, to summarise your approach, you are thinking, leverage the individual strengths that linux and the exisiting FOSS communities have: web server + developer tools...02:20
stelisOr there needs to be workaround like a separate Windows Terminal server02:20
stelispips1_: It doesn't address the desktop problem directly02:20
RichEdAgreed. But what it will do, is help clear up the confusion surrounding Open Source that I think is being maintained by some people with vested interest or fears, by showing decision makers that it is able to exist side-by-side with other workstationsm, use existing authentication etc.02:21
RichEdMuch MS promoted messages against Open Source is about spreading fear and confusion around a "theroretical enemy".02:21
stelisRichEd: I agree that beacon sites are critical to prove that it can be done02:22
jsgotangcohmmm?02:22
RichEdMuch resistance to adoption comes from techies who know only MS and who do not want to tackle new areas where they may not be seen as a demi-god.02:22
stelisBut again /one/ of the prerequisites for sustaining even those is application support02:22
jsgotangcoRichEd: like me02:22
jsgotangcoheh02:22
stelisRichEd: I very much agree02:23
stelisLack of application support is eagerly seized as an excuse to push OSS back 02:23
RichEdYep. But take a look at this blog post over a coffee ... from our Community Manager - Jono Bacon::02:23
RichEdhttp://www.jonobacon.org/?p=68702:23
cbx33man I hate MS02:24
cbx33sorry just throw that in there02:24
cbx33but just everything about it seems to stink02:24
jsgotangcocbx33: sure but its part of life ;)02:24
stelisMy fear is that the pioneers pushing Linux desktops today will move on, and that the schools etc. that have been beacons which swtich back over time02:24
RichEdLook at what he says Open Source can teach, wide of the syllabus & exam requirements. To me the skills he says Open Source breeds are key to survival in the Globally Connected Village & Economy.02:24
pips1_cbx33, LOL02:24
cbx33sorry I can do the whole....word argumentative side...but at the end of the day....I revert to childhood ism02:25
stelisAnd that will be "proof" that OSS doesn't work02:25
jsgotangcoproof?02:25
jsgotangcoheck02:25
=== jsgotangco is not into platform arguments lately
=== cbx33 is just so happy to be M$ free at home
cbx33and I can still play my games ;)02:26
steliscbx33: That's actually one of the reaons why I'm probably leaving .edu02:26
cbx33stelis...I'd love to leave edu...but 02:26
stelisTeaching to pass exams, rather than learning02:26
=== cbx33 has found it very difficult to find another job
jsgotangcohmm02:26
steliscbx33: That's my problem02:26
=== jsgotangco is not in edu but close to edu since he's doing software for edu
=== cbx33 starts weeeping....nobody wants him
jsgotangcobut we have a different edu situation here anyways02:27
stelisjsgotangco: That's interesting02:27
cbx33jsgotangco: that rocks02:27
cbx33stelis, do you work in a school?02:27
pips1_stelis, that's an interesting point, about the "teaching to pass exams"... I had discussions about this myself02:27
stelisI work at a College02:28
stelisBefore that a school02:28
cbx33do you get much vandalism there?02:28
steliscbx33: Opportunistic02:28
=== cbx33 is distraught about the vandalism
cbx33mice getting ripped out02:28
pips1_cbx33, yeah, scary02:28
stelisWe fitted optical mice and case locks02:28
stelisAnd that stopped it02:28
cbx33stelis....think we havn't02:29
cbx33they "rip" the mouse off the end of the lead02:30
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stelisWe've had a couple of those02:30
stelisThe bottom line is that some of them are very, very bored and fed up02:30
cbx33yeh02:30
pips1_yep02:30
pips1_consumer gen02:30
cbx33but it's no excuse02:30
willvdlcbx33, we had mouseballs stolen by the dozens02:30
willvdlthey make good marbles02:30
cbx33willvdl, oh yeh...02:30
jsgotangcohahaha02:30
cbx33but have you had soldering irons on optical sensors?02:30
cbx33ours is sometimes just blatent distruction02:30
lguerrahi all02:30
steliscbx33: Soldering irons?02:30
lguerraRichEd: ping02:30
willvdloptical mice solve that problem but then the kids try and blind each other with the lasers02:30
stelisElectronics lab?02:31
cbx33tech yeh02:31
jsgotangcohahahaha02:31
RichEdhi lguerra ...02:35
lguerrahow are you?02:35
=== jsgotangco notes to use trackballs instead
willvdlcbx33, you keep soldering irons and mice in the same room?02:35
cbx33wilvdl, it was a tech room02:35
stelisWell the mice aren't staying :)02:35
cbx33now insome rooms we take the mice back at the end of each lesson02:35
cbx33keep them in a box02:35
cbx33that's how bad it is02:35
stelisI guess that what it comes down to is that they don't want to be there02:35
willvdlah. I do remember blowing up an old 286 at varisty. It was fun but I don't publically condone or advocate such actions02:35
cbx33yeh02:35
cbx33hehehe02:35
stelisYou can't run Linux on a 286 :)02:35
cbx33:(02:35
stelisSo I think it's forgivab;e :)02:35
cbx33oooh i dunno02:35
pips1_cu l8r guys02:35
BonBonTheJonwillvdl: how did you make it blow up02:35
willvdlBonBonTheJon, it involved high voltages, a large ceramic capacitor and possible some spilled tea. I'm not going to give out the exact recipe as children might be listening02:35
jsgotangcoyeah02:35
cbx33willvdl.....oooh.....02:35
jsgotangcomight give me an idea for next week02:35
cbx33I'd like to try that with a graphics card someday02:35
BonBonTheJonwillvdl: I''ve seen a video where someone removed a heatsink and made a processor explode, but 286 didnt need a heatsink02:35
willvdlcbx33, edgerton's boomer ... it's way cool02:35
willvdllet's jsut say the 286 needed prompting02:35
cbx33willvdl....you gotta share that with me02:35
jsgotangcowhen i was in school, we used to have comptuers that used casette tapes for storage02:36
BonBonTheJonlol02:36
jsgotangcoman that was a long time ago02:36
willvdla fantastic visual display of Faraday's Law, Ampere's Law and a hole in the roof02:36
BonBonTheJoni still love my commodore 6402:36
jsgotangcowell nothing beats the commodore 64 in educational content02:36
cbx33hehehe02:37
stelisWas the BBC Micro available outside the UK?02:37
willvdlyip02:37
stelisI loved the tutle robot02:37
willvdlthe zx spectrum was big here02:37
jsgotangcoi used to have a trs-80 portable before02:42
jsgotangcoit had and 8-liner LCD02:42
jsgotangcoand ran on dry cells02:42
cbx33heheh02:42
jsgotangcothe poor unit was used to death02:42
willvdlI remember building one from raw components. It could control a sprinkler system.02:42
stelisWas that a clamshell?02:42
=== jsgotangco wonders if using a commodore64 emulator in edubuntu and load all those nice educational images would be a good idea
stelisOr an all-in-one unit?02:42
willvdljsgotangco, or just port them?02:42
jsgotangconahh..just a keypad and lcd in one rectangular box02:42
stelisIn all seriousness, DOS emulation would be a big deal02:42
cbx33heheheh02:42
jsgotangcoport the actual games?02:42
willvdlyip02:42
cbx33jsgotangco: go go go02:42
willvdlin SA we have loads of legacy DOS educational s/w02:42
jsgotangcowell some of them are not exactly free software to begin with02:42
willvdlthat is actually quite good apparently02:42
steliswillvdl: That's true here02:42
willvdljsgotangco, the developers have probably all died of old age02:42
stelisMachine control stuff only started to migrate recently-ish02:42
jsgotangcothat's true02:42
jsgotangcowillvdl: the idea just sprang up a few days ago at work for that02:42
willvdlporting them?02:45
jsgotangconahh..just load up the images in an emulator02:45
cbx33is there no emulator for linux?02:45
jsgotangcooh there is02:45
willvdljsgotangco, btw I'm meeting with mindset next week so if there is anything you'd like to find out etc. drop me an email02:46
jsgotangcowillvdl: will do make a list thanks for the notic02:46
jsgotangcoe02:46
jsgotangcocbx33: its called VICE02:47
cbx33oooh02:47
jsgotangcowell the platform (c64) has tons of educational stuff, but also tons of time wasters (games)02:49
willvdlnot time-wasters...they build keyboard skills, response times and that killer instinct required for military services02:50
stelisMaking them wickedly accurate with laser mice :)02:51
cbx33jsgotangco: could we shipo it?02:51
cbx33or start porting stuff02:52
cbx33how useful is useful?02:52
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willvdlshipo?02:54
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jsgotangcocbx33: well you can start looking at the 10,000+ catalog02:55
cbx33ah02:55
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cbx33paid for?02:55
cbx33or OSS?02:55
jsgotangconahhh02:55
jsgotangcosome of them actually allow you to distribute the software02:56
jsgotangcobut they retain copyright (obviously)02:56
cbx33yeh02:56
cbx33do you think ti's worth looking into?02:56
cbx33when you say use ful, how useful...02:56
jsgotangcodepends on the software02:56
jsgotangcoive seen software for it that involved other stuff in education, say life scienes02:57
cbx33we could include them for edgy + 1 and the best of the best could be ported for edgy + 202:57
willvdland presumably the ontext of the educational environment it's applicable to02:57
willvdlcbx33, or include them in an "education content marketplace"02:58
jsgotangcoas long as the kids don't discover that they can playe M.U.L.E. and Maniac Mansion02:58
cbx33MANIAC MANSION02:58
willvdlor that I discover I can play them :P02:58
cbx33jsgotangco: http://www.progbox.co.uk/thesis/02:58
jsgotangcodefender of the crown and hardball02:59
jsgotangcohaha02:59
pips1hey ogra do you have a tip.. I am still trying to get my network config to work... I tried to disable dhcp on the hw firewall, but then the edubuntu server complains that network autoconfiguration failed since it couldn't find a dhcp. I looks as if my firewall is blocking the dhcp from the router ?! ack. Should I try to disable dhcp on the router and enable it on the hw firewall instead? will that work?02:59
jsgotangcowow02:59
ograsure, that would work, but can you set up a different ip range on the firewall ?03:00
cbx33jsgotangco: ?03:00
ograthe 192.168.0 net will make testing the final Cd difficult for you03:00
jsgotangcoi didnt know matlab can do that03:00
cbx33heheh it can with me at the helm...03:00
cbx33I had to write my open midi file importer03:01
cbx33check out the pdf for complete code listings03:01
pips1I think so, yes. I tried to set the hw firewall to 192.168.2.0, but then I couldn't connect to anything anymore03:01
pips1ogra, can you suggest an ip for the hw firewall that might work?03:02
pips1(my router is on 192.168.1.1)03:02
ogramake it 192.168.1.5 or something and let it serve  192.168.1.XXX for dhcp03:03
pips1ah03:03
jsgotangcocbx33: i was looking into this tool to create interactive fiction03:04
jsgotangcoi thought its something that can be useful in an education sense, it might have been done before though, i wouldn't know03:04
cbx33which tool?03:04
jsgotangcoi can't recall i have to look into my bookmarks03:05
jsgotangcoits relatively new03:05
jsgotangcoif youre familiar with the SCUMM engine, its like that03:06
cbx33oooh...cool03:06
cbx33ahh03:06
willvdlcbx33, looking at the thesis, are you using cepstra? LPC?03:09
cbx33willvdl ahhh an audio man...03:11
jsgotangcohehhe03:11
=== jsgotangco uh-ph
jsgotangcouh-oh03:12
cbx33it was a simple FFT, tbh cepstra is a term I remember from my Applied DSP lectures03:12
willvdldid a lot of that stuff for my thesis: wavelets, AR synthesis, LPC: traditional tools used in voice recognition03:12
cbx33but I confess I have forgotten much of it now03:12
cbx33ahhh excellet03:12
jsgotangcothere are thingamajigs like that for sound????03:12
cbx33willvdl I hacked up a quick speech recognition script...it was able to get the numbers from one to ten03:12
cbx33I stored cheap spectrums03:13
cbx33and it matched over frequency content, much like the rest of my thesis used...03:13
cbx33if you find the section on MAGs it took successive snapshots of MAGs03:13
jsgotangcobrb switching to dapper03:13
cbx33over the sound sample nd then matched those to a preset sample of MAGS03:13
cbx33nothing spectacular like looking at the ....oh what are they called....the parts of speech03:14
cbx33argh I've forgotten so much03:14
willvdlcbx33, quick speech recog is surprisingly easy03:14
willvdlphonemes?03:14
cbx33willvdl, so you know all about the 3D wave equation then?03:14
cbx33that's the one03:14
cbx33we did a quick lecture on ti once, but nothing great03:15
cbx33didn't get a bad mark for that old thesis ;)03:15
willvdlawesome. good memories03:15
cbx33most of the coding was done on the bus03:15
cbx33yeh indeed03:15
willvdlloved matlab too but found that LAPAC was 4 times faster03:16
cbx33never used LAPAC03:16
cbx33thought now Iwould have uysed python03:16
willvdldid it originally in fortran 90: uber-fast03:16
cbx33python is all gooey03:16
cbx33ahhh03:16
cbx33willvdl...see I never knew you were into all that kinda thing03:16
cbx33;)03:16
willvdlfortran=fastest numerical processing language on earth...still03:17
willvdlI lectured in DSP for a while :)03:17
cbx33WOW03:17
cbx33so you can actually judge how bad my thesis is ;)03:17
=== cbx33 slips willvdl a $20 bill
willvdlnah :)03:17
cbx33I went to the ISVR in the UK03:18
cbx33supposedly a world renowned sound place03:18
willvdlUniv Stellenbosch. Got a world reknowned voice guy03:18
willvdlhe invented ORED for reducing higher-order markov chains to first order...potential nobel prize in the waiting03:19
cbx33wow03:19
willvdlI gotto run, going to be late for a 3:30 meeting03:19
cbx33sorry03:19
cbx33bye willvdl 03:19
willvdlciao. must continue this convo sometime03:20
cbx33indeed03:20
cbx33we can make a realtime version of my code in python03:20
highvoltagewillvdl: 3:30 meetings in cape town on a friday afternoon!?03:20
=== highvoltage shakes head
willvdljoburg :)03:20
highvoltagewillvdl: well, hope you don't have to go through traffic, at least :)03:20
willvdlit involves drinks fortunately but don't tell Richard03:21
=== highvoltage 's lips are sealed
willvdleeek the logs!03:21
willvdlciao folks03:21
highvoltageRichEd: /clear /clear!03:21
highvoltageciao willvdl 03:21
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bddebianHowdy04:27
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=== pips1 is back from his adventures in network appliance configuration land
stelisDid you beat the DHCP servers into shape?05:02
pips1nope05:02
stelisAre they still fighting then?05:02
pips1yep05:02
stelis:(05:02
pips1the main problem is that there seems to be some insane timeout in place that keeps disconnecting my access to the router / hw firewall, before I even finished configuring them...05:03
stelisYou could temporarily configure your laptop with a static address in the right range05:05
pips1appart from struggling with things like "oh, I didn't realise that you need to hold the reset button for 10 secs for it to work" etc05:05
pips1:)05:05
stelisYeah05:05
stelisI usually hold the button in until my finger starts hurt a bit05:06
stelisSo that they get the message...05:06
stelisNetworking can be frustrating05:07
pips1I now decided that I need to print out the different config screens.05:07
pips1yeah05:07
stelisUnfortunately all the vendors use different screens05:07
pips1grumble05:08
stelisSo the chances of meeting someone else with the same is low05:08
stelisI usually set my laptop with a static address in the right range to connect to a router for configuring it05:09
stelisAnd then switch it over to DHCP05:09
pips1I was aiming to disable dhcp on the router and have it enabled on the firewall and set its dhcp range to another range, from 192.168.0.x to 192.168.1.xxx or smth, like ogra suggested. However, if I disable dhcp on the router, I can't even access the firewall admin interface anymore?!05:10
pips1ah05:10
pips1well, i think your suggestion for setting a static ip on the laptop for a start is good :)05:11
stelisIt avoids the chicken-and-egg thing05:12
pips1question is: what static ip should i choose?05:12
stelisAny will work05:12
stelisProvided that no other device is transmitting on it05:13
stelisSo 137 is as good as any05:13
stelisThe DHCP probably hasn't done enough assignments to get to that  number :)05:13
pips1ok, I got two laptops here, one for irc, the other to test...05:15
pips1I just did #ifconfig eth0 192.168.0.9905:16
pips1and now I can't access my router on 192.168.1.1 anymore ?!05:16
pips1huh?05:16
stelisDifferent networks05:16
stelisIt'll need a default gateway to go from 192.168.005:17
=== Kamping_Kaiser [n=kgoetz@easyubuntu/docteam/kgoetz] has joined #edubuntu
stelisTo 192.168.105:17
stelisBecause they are separate subnets05:18
pips1well, the router is on 192.168.1.1 network, and the firewall is on 192.168.0.1 network. the setup is internet - router - firewall - hub - laptops05:18
stelisOK05:19
pips1how do I enable access to my router in that case?05:19
pips1should i simply choose the static address 192.169.1.99 instead?05:19
stelisHmm05:20
pips1can i set a gateway on my laptop to go with my static 192.168.0.1 address?05:21
stelisDoes your router have a regular Ethernet socket?05:21
pips1erm, i think the answer is yes05:21
stelisSorry, I'm confused by the router and the firewall being separate devices05:22
stelisIs the firewall a computer rather than an appliance?05:22
stelisThe gateway is the device on a particular that forwards packets to other networks05:23
pips1yes, it's confusing, did I mention that its actually Device A=[adsl modem+router]  and Device B=[hw firewall+8-port switch] 05:23
Burgundaviastelis: please join #ubuntu-directory05:23
Burgundaviaand got a link to your spec?05:23
stelisBurgundavia:  http://www.elsn.org/main/LdapServer05:24
stelisThis is my private MoinMoin05:24
stelisI didn't want to dump it directly without checking with someone05:25
stelisThings seem to be happening quickly05:25
Burgundaviastelis: the -directory team is working on this spec https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/easy-ldap-server05:25
Burgundaviaso can you copy your stuff to that wiki page?05:25
stelisWill do - I'll move replies over to ubuntu-directory05:26
stelispips1: What I was thinking05:27
stelisWas that you could plug your laptop directly into the firewall05:27
stelisTo do the configuration05:27
pips1stelis, excellent spec write-up!!05:29
pips1this is my no. 1 feature I have been hoping for ever since the inception of edubuntu.. :)05:30
pips1ok, back to my network prob05:30
pips1so.. stelis, you are saying you want to cut the hub out of the loop, to make things easier? 05:31
pips1stelis, ping?05:35
stelisYes05:36
pips1^^^ ?05:36
stelisYou have four networks at play, I think 05:36
pips1four?!05:36
stelisMy head...05:36
stelisInternet/ISP05:36
stelisThe shared network between router and firewall, 05:37
stelisThe main private network05:37
stelisAnd the dedicated Edubuntu network05:37
pips1right05:37
pips1well, the last one isn't up and running yet, but that the end goal..05:37
stelisEach requires a gateway device that sits on that network, and another05:38
stelisTo pass packets05:38
pips1got you05:38
stelisI'm trying to think through this slowly05:38
stelisToo many hours at the screen05:38
pips1:-/05:39
stelisThe ideal thing would probably be reduce the number of networks05:39
stelisYou need a router to connect your own devices to the ISP05:39
pips1well, the only network i can afford to take out is the router-firewall one05:39
stelisIt would make things simpler05:40
stelisRemember that NAT protect your internal network from the Internet 05:41
pips1yes, I agree. however, then I will loose out on the 8-port switch that is built-in with the firewall. I need the switch to distribute the internet traffic inside my house, for my wife's mac...05:41
stelisAh05:41
pips1:-/05:41
pips1I *could* swap the firewall/switch for a simple switch i have at my office. (but not right now)05:42
stelisOK.05:43
stelisI would kill for a whiteboard05:43
stelisThey make network stuff much easier to work out05:43
ubotuAnnouncement from my owner (Seveas): TheFridge05:44
pips1stelis, I think you should just copy your spec over to the ubuntu wiki, they will be happy to edit the use cases, if they think they are too long. I think its an excellent spec and hope that this can be done for the feisty release.. :-)05:44
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stelispips1:05:44
stelisI've copied it05:44
pips1good stuff05:45
stelisThis is pretty big project05:45
pips1yeah05:45
stelisI'm hoping that Canonical will work on porting Fedora Directory Server05:45
stelisWhich solves a lot of this05:45
pips1fingers crossed05:46
stelisYep05:46
cbx33afternoon all05:46
stelisWe desperately need this05:46
stelisAfternoon05:46
=== pips1 tries to beam a whiteboard to stelis
pips1hey cbx33 05:47
cbx33a shared whiteboard would be great for edubuntu don;t you think?05:47
pips1meet my personal hero stelis, author of the LDAP spec05:47
cbx33stelis - dude you rock05:47
stelisI haven't volunteered to implement any of this!05:47
pips1sure05:47
cbx33heheh05:47
=== cbx33 has to write the SCP spec later
stelisSCP ?05:48
pips1but the info in the spec is already a good contribution05:48
cbx33Student Control Panel05:48
stelisCool05:48
stelisWhat's currently there is a nice start05:48
cbx33If anyone has some ideas/suggestsions for SCP...I'll be putting the spec together over the weekend05:49
cbx33hoping ogra will have some time for a chat about it05:49
pips1do you think we can get my network setup figured out now, or should we aim to do it another time, when it's not friday night and your seeing everything at least double?05:49
stelispips1: :)05:50
stelisPM me if you like05:50
cbx33pips1, what's up with ti now?05:50
cbx33I'll give it a crack05:50
stelisI can be around Sunday evening05:50
pips1cbx33, I have a rather complex setup with four networks... as stelis properly observed05:51
pips1stelis Internet/ISP05:51
pips1stelis The shared network between router and firewall, 05:51
pips1stelis The main private network05:51
pips1stelis And the dedicated Edubuntu network05:51
stelisI'm trying to convince him to slim down a littel :)05:51
cbx33crikey05:51
cbx33slim down dude05:51
pips1heh05:51
cbx33and what is not working?05:52
cbx33DHCP?05:52
stelisThinking about it, we have a similar arrangement at work05:52
cbx33stelis, me too05:52
cbx33just don;t tell pips1 05:52
pips1the firewall is using the same ip range that edubuntu ltsp needs...05:52
cbx33right05:52
cbx33pips1, .... to aid in helping05:52
pips1read: *the firewall's dhcp05:52
cbx33do you have a diagram05:53
pips1nope05:53
cbx33I may have to pop out in a while.....but if you mail me a diagram...that could help...05:53
cbx33just a quick one of ip ranges and dhcp/firewall/server locations05:53
cbx33it's hard to visualise a network layout05:53
cbx33well...I confess I find it hard to05:53
cbx33and I'm a network manager05:53
cbx33:005:53
pips1ha, yep05:53
pips1I've never done a network diagram before, but I could try, i guess05:54
cbx33just a simple one05:54
cbx33it'll help you out I gaurantee it05:55
cbx33I know exactly what my network is llike now05:55
cbx33cos i memorised the drawing05:55
jsgotangcoyou've never done a network diagram before?05:56
jsgotangcoheh05:56
jsgotangcodang05:56
pips1heh05:56
=== cbx33 drew his out all nicely on the computer....heheh
cbx33then I chagned the whoole infrastructure05:56
cbx33:p05:56
pips1yeah, it's probably better to start scribbling it on paper and scanning that in05:57
pips1and once everything is clear, you can always make an nice one05:57
stelisJust writing an inventory of what you have is a good place to start05:58
stelisi.e. devices and network ranges05:58
pips1even better start, you're right05:58
pips1in a plain text file05:58
steliscbx33: WRT to the SCP, perhaps post an email with your thoughts to one of the lists? I'll try to reply, and maybe some other people will chip in thoughts as well.05:58
pips1good suggestion05:59
stelisThe place that I worked had a classroom thin client network05:59
stelisThe product is dead05:59
stelisBut I may be able to find some docs and things06:00
pips1even if you might get lots of "this would be nice" that don't really relate to actual real *needs*. but you might get some input from people who have experience with commercial apps06:00
stelisWhich could be mined for ideas06:00
cbx33yeh06:01
cbx33true06:01
cbx33pips1, yeh just a simple sketch like those...hackers challenge books have ;)06:01
=== cbx33 shutsup
cbx33heheh06:01
cbx33right I'm off for a while06:01
cbx33bbl06:01
pips1cu06:01
stelisCheers06:02
pips1stelis, have you used the collaborative real time text editor 'gobby' before?06:06
pips1I'm dying to try it out06:06
pips1my network problem would be an interesting use case to try it :-)06:07
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cbx33hey LaserJock 07:14
LaserJockhi cbx33 07:15
cbx33how are you07:16
LaserJockI'm going to die :-)07:16
cbx33oh07:16
LaserJockphew, I just found somebody to do some chemistry demonstrations07:17
LaserJockwe are having a Chemistry Department open house today07:17
LaserJockand I'm in charge of organizing some chemistry demos07:17
cbx33coool07:17
LaserJockbut it turns out *I* have to be presenting a poster and giving tours of my lab07:17
cbx33so why are you goin to die07:17
cbx33planning to drink some H2SO407:17
cbx33?07:18
LaserJockso I need to find some people to actually do the demos07:18
LaserJockno07:18
cbx33heheh cool.......you'll love that07:18
LaserJockwe thought about blowing up some H2 and O2 :-)07:18
cbx33nice idea07:18
cbx33ooh oooh ooh07:18
cbx33do sonoluninescence07:18
cbx33sonoluminescence07:18
cbx33sorry spelt it wrong first time round07:18
LaserJockwell, I've got a 2 hr meeting in 15 min07:18
cbx33go on dude07:18
cbx33do sonoluminescence07:19
cbx33it's well cool07:19
LaserJockwhich gives me 2 hrs after that to get the demos set up, and a poster printed out and the lab cleaned up07:19
cbx33so it'#s today?07:19
LaserJockyes07:19
LaserJock:-)07:19
cbx33oh...yeh youre' gonna die :p07:19
cbx33ack...i gotta dash...getting ready for my brother-in-laws LAN party tomorrow07:20
cbx33heheh07:20
cbx33#see ya later07:20
LaserJockoh yeah07:20
LaserJockI have a LInux install fest tomorrow :(07:20
=== cbx33 is gonna showcase beryl
cbx33hehe07:20
cbx33later dude, hope it goes well07:20
LaserJockI need to burn some Edgy RC cds07:20
LaserJockcya07:20
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tidelineI have a strange question regarding the handbook, I checked a copy out, but I would like to know how I can test it locally?08:01
tidelineoh, Hi all08:02
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cbx33evenin all09:05
juliuxhi cbx33 09:05
cbx33hey juliux 09:05
juliuxcbx33, how are you?09:05
cbx33yeh I'm good09:06
cbx33how are you09:06
tidelinehi all, I asked a question earlier, but no one answered it, please forgive the repost09:08
tidelinehow would I test the handbook locally?09:09
cbx33hmm....09:09
cbx33normally rhere is a script to run it09:09
tidelineor is there a way to test it locally09:09
cbx33you can test individual pages09:09
cbx33by running yelp page_name09:09
tidelinecbx33, ok tried that - Thanks09:10
cbx33did it work09:11
tidelinewell it would have if I didn't screw up the xml 09:12
tidelineyup its working now09:12
cbx33heheh09:12
tidelineis the TODO list on the wiki up to date?09:12
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tidelineI guess technically it's called the taks list09:14
highvoltagecbx33: do you have a very up-to-date edubuntu? if so, can you please try running gcompris?09:17
cbx33I don't here09:17
cbx33hm....oh09:17
highvoltageok. anyone else here running Edgy?09:17
cbx33wait I have a fairly up to date09:17
tidelineI am09:17
cbx33you want a todays uptodate?09:17
highvoltagecbx33: anything after 17 Oct09:17
cbx33tideline, are you able to test?09:18
highvoltagetideline: can you please check if you can run gcompris?09:18
cbx33I can get that ./..09:18
cbx33I have a 14 I think09:18
cbx33I can upgrade09:18
highvoltageok cool :)09:18
pygihighvoltage: I can try09:18
tidelineI am running it in a parallels machine, havent tried it in there09:18
highvoltagegcompris is broken on the 17/10 build. it just auto-logs you out of gnome when you run it :(09:18
highvoltagepygi: that would be great09:18
cbx33highvoltage, shout if you need it09:19
cbx33I'll not update till you say so09:19
cbx33seeing as it'll prbaoly be arnoud 200Mb update09:19
highvoltagecbx33: ok, I will09:20
pygihighvoltage: all working fine09:20
pygiI don't have todays newest update tho, so I'm doing it now09:20
highvoltagepygi: when did you last update? after 17/10?09:21
pygihighvoltage: yup09:21
highvoltageok cool.09:21
=== highvoltage runs it under a terminal and pipes output to a file (hopefully it will catch the error before my session is closed)
pygihighvoltage: k, let us see the error :)09:22
highvoltagehmmm.. it just complains about en_ZA.UTF-8 locales, then it gives a warning about gnome.canvas being deprecated09:23
highvoltageI'll include it in my testing report09:23
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highvoltagetideline: is yours working fine?09:25
tidelinehighvoltage, this is a new install havent installed gcomoris yet09:25
highvoltagetideline: ok, if you do install gcompris, please let me know if it works09:25
tidelinehighvoltage, is there a gooc how to? I can do it right now - Im just at work 09:26
pygitideline: sudo apt-get install gcompris? :)09:26
highvoltagetideline: ok, no worries, I thought you were in a position to test now09:27
tidelinehighvoltage, I have a new install with an update09:27
tidelinepygi, I thought there might be a little more to it than that09:28
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Dheeraj_kuDoes any body know any good java (j2ee) support irc channel?09:34
pygiDheeraj_ku: #java !09:35
Dheeraj_kui tried but it is giving this msg09:35
Dheeraj_ku #java ##java :Forwarding to another channel09:35
Dheeraj_ku* ##java :You need to be identified to join that channel09:35
pygiwell, identify yourself ;)09:36
stgraberthen register on freenode, and join when identified09:36
Dheeraj_ku need to be identified? wat does it really mean?09:36
pygiDheeraj_ku: register on freenode ,then identify09:36
stgraber /msg nickserv help register09:36
pygiDheeraj_ku: this is not a java neither nick registration help channel btw :P09:37
Dheeraj_kuu know if i will ask the same question on # nick registration they may give same reply. this is not a java channel :D09:38
pygiI dont understand you :p09:40
Dheeraj_kuI am already registered on free node with id Dheeraj_k but i forget how to log in :)09:41
cbx33 /msg nickserv identify09:41
cbx33the ya pass09:41
cbx33 /msg nickserv identify pss09:41
Dheeraj_ku# nick registration  = # nickRegistration  channel.lol09:41
Dheeraj_kuthanx :)09:42
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pygihighvoltage: if you want, I can reboot with newest update?09:47
tidelinehighvoltage, I installed gcompris, when I run it I get logged out - pretty much the same as you09:54
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pygihighvoltage: ping  ? :)10:06
highvoltagepygi: pong10:07
pygihighvoltage: in case you havent seen :P10:07
pygi<pygi> highvoltage: if you want, I can reboot with newest update?10:07
pygi<tideline> highvoltage, I installed gcompris, when I run it I get logged out - pretty much the same as you10:07
highvoltageeesh10:07
highvoltagepygi: in that case, I'd appreciate it very much if you could reboot and test10:08
pygihighvoltage: oki, brb in sec10:08
tidelinehighvoltage, is there a paste bin somewhere?  I will paste the error I get in messages10:09
highvoltage!paste10:09
ubotupastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (you can always find it in the channel topic, among other useful things)10:09
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pygihighvoltage: confirming all works marvelous10:11
tidelinehighvoltage, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/2754410:11
highvoltagetideline: and when did you say you last updated?10:12
tidelinehighvoltage, I got the image this am and updated about 30 min ago10:12
highvoltagetideline: ok10:13
highvoltagepygi: and you?10:13
pygihighvoltage: right now? :P10:13
highvoltageok, seems like it was a bug that's recently been fixed. I'll re-check tomorrow morning after an rsync.10:14
highvoltagethanks pygi and tideline!10:14
tidelinek10:14
pygihighvoltage: I don't think so =) I haven't seen such problem :P10:14
pygiand I was updating & testing every day :P10:15
tidelinemy problem may come from running inside parallels10:15
highvoltagepygi: ok. strange that tideline is getting it too then :/10:16
highvoltagetideline: aah, ok. so perhaps our problems are completely unrelated then.10:16
tidelineI can test on another computer when I get home10:16
tidelineis the handbook working out of the C or the orig or the working dir?10:25
lucasvohttp://wservices.ch/~lucas/ablage/tux_case_01.jpg &  http://wservices.ch/~lucas/ablage/tux_case_02.jpg :)10:28
lucasvomy brother just did this for me :)10:28
stgraberWoo, that's really good looking :)10:35
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=== cbx33 just met sladen
highvoltagecool :)10:49
highvoltageah yes, he's a londonner too, isn't he?10:49
cbx33hehe...he needed a soldering iron10:49
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highvoltagegoodnight #edubuntu!10:50
cbx33good night highvoltage 10:50
pyginight highvoltage 10:50
juliuxgood night highvoltage 10:51
tidelinenight10:51
highvoltagenight cbx33 and pygi and juliux and tideline!10:51
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cbx33ogra, I should have my key signed soon11:01
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whiprushhey you guys check this out? http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=28019311:39
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whiprushof course you have. :D11:40
pygi:P11:42
nixternali better not hear anyone laugh at the "Fawn" name anymore...it is ingenious11:48
nixternalhttp://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27566/11:48
nixternalthat backs it up right there ;)11:48
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vectraI don't see a GUI tool to configure GDM. How do I set an automatic login for the 8 year old?12:07
Burgworkvectra: it is there12:08
Burgworksystem>admin>login screen12:08
vectrayup, I'm just blind today :-p12:09
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