=== cafuego [n=cafuego@59.167.191.160] has joined #edubuntu === herman [n=herman@83.137.151.3] has joined #edubuntu === spacey [n=herman@ubuntu/member/spacey] has joined #edubuntu === jono [n=jono@88-107-14-218.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #edubuntu === jono [n=jono@88-107-14-218.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #edubuntu === spacey [n=herman@ubuntu/member/spacey] has joined #edubuntu === tideline [n=tideline@h69-130-138-126.69-130.unk.tds.net] has joined #edubuntu [03:18] anyone here working on the handbook? [03:35] tideline: I am, somewhat === chovynz34654 [n=t@60.234.175.32] has joined #edubuntu [03:37] BonBonTheJon, is the work coming out of/being updated in C or working or orig dir? [03:37] tideline: I just started helping, but I look in the C directory [03:37] I'm setting up an 80G HD with some partitions for Edubuntu / win 98 :\. I need some help getting some of the setting right [03:38] chovynz34654: what do you need help with [03:38] BonBonTheJon, ok thanks - also do you know if the task list on the wiki is up to date? [03:38] tideline: no idea, I am working on the Concepts: Networking page [03:39] BonBonTheJon, ok thanks! [03:39] BonBonTheJon: I'd like to set up some partitions (how many specifically i dont really know yet. What i do know is this ... [03:42] ./boot partition = 2Gb, swap partition = (2xRAM) = 1.5gb, / partition = leftover, win98 partition 4gb. Sounds reasonable so far? [03:43] chovynz34654, you dont need that big of a boot partition [03:43] chovynz34654: everything besides boot, only needs to be like 50 MB, maybe [03:43] tideline : how much (that was one of the things that confused me after looking at some docs) [03:44] chovynz34654, like BonBonTheJon said 50 would be a lot I usually make mine about 120 ish [03:44] 120mb for a boot? [03:44] for edubuntu [03:45] yeah [03:45] yeah [03:45] k. done. boot needs to be first partition correct? [03:45] I don't think it NEEDS to be, but I always do [03:46] it is best to have it the first section of addressable blocks [03:46] or something like that [03:47] ok. Next Q. I have Edu6.06 already installed and upgraded on HDA1...(im installing EDU onto my primary slave so i can return my friends HD) [03:47] theres an option under installing... [03:47] copy data from another partition [03:48] If i use that will it copy the data already D/led and installed onto my .....argh [03:49] thats is, your boot partition must be contained within the first 1024 cylinders [03:49] I have never used that option [03:51] there are many ways to get data from one disk to another [03:51] let me see if I can find something I wrote a while ago [03:52] I have 2 HDs. the 8g is my friends which id like to return soon. The 80G is mine which id like to set up as the booter in Edubuntu [03:53] 80g will have a boot part, a root part, 2 data parts, 1 win98 part [03:53] are you going to install onto the 80gb'er? [03:53] a fresh install? [03:53] EDU is already installed o the 8g [03:53] fresh onto 80 [03:53] right but are you going to do a fresh install on the 80 [03:54] yes fresh onto 80 [03:54] I have a cd that im running trying to set this up [03:55] 8 is master, 80 is slave [03:55] ok I would put the 80gb disk on the contoler as primary and the 8gb on as slave, install the OS's you want, then rsync or copy from the 80 to the 8 [03:56] ok got that. [03:56] what im having trouble with is the boot root and win parts [03:56] do you have apps that you have installed other than what comes with edu? [03:56] ah [03:56] are you going to use grub? [03:56] yeah [03:57] i've written down a plan, but im struggling to set my HD up like i want [03:58] (bearing in mind I wont have my friends HD soon) [03:58] wheres the info i need... [03:58] *Heres the info i need [03:58] Q. What sizes do i need the partitions to be [03:59] and how do i install win after into some freespace after linux [03:59] I dont know what a normal Windows Install takes up space wise? [03:59] as far as i can tell i need 4 parts... "/" "/boot" "swap" "win98" [04:00] I would imagine 25-30 gb of the 80 would be enough [04:00] onyl need 4g [04:00] itll be a stripped down version of win98 [04:00] only esentials and graphic drivers [04:00] ok [04:00] chovynz34654: if the computer is fast enough, why not do windows in a virtual machine === Laser_away is now known as LaserJock [04:01] tried virtual [04:01] so i would add a little space for additional storage [04:01] did you try parallels? [04:01] it wont run some of the progs im running under windows (maplestory) [04:01] it has worked great for me, but it's not free [04:01] I have some guys at work that use qemu [04:01] :\ cant afford atm [04:02] I personally don't use any Windows anymore, even at work! [04:02] chovynz34654: did you try vmware/qemu, or did you try wine [04:02] trid wine [04:02] *tried [04:02] chovynz34654: ahh, see vmware runs windows from within linux, so it will work, just need to set it up [04:03] vmware costs [04:03] i cant pay any more money atm [04:03] qemu is a very viable option [04:03] its free [04:03] got a link? [04:03] !qemu [04:03] qemu is an emulator you can use to run another operating system - see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WindowsXPUnderQemuHowTo [04:03] !vmware [04:03] VMWare Player is in Ubuntu's !Multiverse repository. Instructions to install VMWare Server can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InstallingVMWare [04:05] thnx for links [04:05] hmmm...these dont help me yet [04:06] they would if i were at a gui or shell...but atm im at formatting / partition setup from the CD [04:07] ok ill ask from a different angle [04:07] chovynz34654: install EDU on the drive, then when that is up, you can install Windows in VMWare or Qemu [04:07] how much freespace should i leave on the 80.....ok bonbon [04:07] chovynz34654: for...? [04:09] (so i can install win98 later / after EDU) [04:10] nvm i answered my own question [04:10] thnx for your help guys === NerdCaca [n=andrew@ppp-69-238-96-246.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has joined #edubuntu [04:10] for a clean install of edubuntu, I guess 50 or 100 or more for /boot, 2 times memory for swap, the rest can be / [04:13] oh thats why i was getting confused....the 80g (new as of 6 months ago) previously had win98 on it. 98 didnt handle it very well and now i have bad sectors on the disk. After formatting that shouldn't matter but i was wondering if i partitioned the HD into a few data drives, would it reduce the problems i get from bad sectors (if any ever appear again after installing linux) [04:14] chovynz34654: this is getting beyond my reach, but I think the disk can detect bad sectors and not use them [04:15] k :) [04:16] chovynz34654: I am most likely wrong, but for what its work [04:16] worth* [04:16] dont save any space on the drive [04:16] quem and vmware use files on the local system for OS [04:16] yeah [04:18] so here is a generic partition table [04:18] win98 does not however. if i install win98 later i will need a partition. I wanted to set that possibilty up now incase these two programs dont run MapleStory. MS is the ONLY reason I'm still using 98 on my othercomputer [04:18] crap I will use a paste bin its a little large [04:18] everything else i need is available on linux [04:19] chovynz34654: just don't partition jsut enough space for win98 [04:19] chovynz34654: and if you get a virtual machine working you can expand the / partition [04:19] chovynz34654, BonBonTheJon has a good point [04:20] good thought [04:20] but if you were going to know you were going to use qemu I wouldn't bother just use the entire balance of the disk after you have boot and swap [04:21] so boot does need to be a partition? [04:21] tideline: but my way will work in either case [04:21] chovynz34654: yeah, say 150MB [04:21] aiighty [04:21] :( my installation failed [04:22] chovynz34654: what do you mean [04:22] BonBonTheJon, right I agree nothing meant by my remarks [04:22] tideline: I was just pointing out :) [04:23] chovynz34654, what happened? [04:23] did you get any useful info? [04:24] "./pool/main/h/hplip/hplip-data_0.9.1-4ubuntu1_all.deb file failed the md5 checksum verification. Your CD-ROM or this file may have been corrupted." [04:25] chovynz34654: is this a new cd? [04:25] yes :( CD image [04:25] chovynz34654, did you check the MD5 after you downloaded it? [04:26] i didn't. My friends CD. it might be ROM. The CD worked before to install to his HD as well. [04:27] this is frustrating [04:27] hang in there [04:27] :\ [04:27] chovynz34654: we are here to help [04:27] ok heres what im goon try.... [04:28] *gonna [04:28] i have a working 8g HD. I have a clean 80G HD as slave [04:28] EDU is already installed on 8g [04:29] download, check, and burn on edu [04:29] ill direct copy over 8HD to 80HD [04:29] swap cables (master & slave) and see if that works [04:30] chovynz34654: its worth a try [04:30] meanwhile im ordering a couple of cds :D [04:31] chovynz34654: good call [04:32] want to hear a linux horror story? (aka lessons ill never forget) [04:33] chovynz34654, sure [04:36] when the 80g was still a W98 HD, i was trying to get EDU to recognise the HD so i could access the files and transfer to a backup machine. I didnt know how to do that so i read up and fiddling around. I used "Disks" under sys -> admin. [04:37] i pointed the mount point for the 80g HD to /dev (made sense to me) [04:37] :( [04:37] after clicking ok....i couldnt do anything else [04:37] eeek [04:37] i panicked....and read up trying to fix that mistake for hours [04:38] most solutions involved doing something like go to shell and type ... [04:38] chovynz34654: did you ever figure out how, I have no idea unless you chroot'ed into the drive and fixed it [04:38] i couldn't GET to shell or terminal or anything [04:39] so that was no go [04:39] i hard rebooted [04:39] it didnt save the session, so my mistake wasnt in the system [04:39] phew O.O [04:40] (try it out on a trash HD) lesson : NEVER direct your points to any of the systme folders...make one up first [04:46] ok another question for you.... [04:46] yes... [04:47] how come i cant (using gui) copy and paste the boot folder on 8g to 80g [04:48] I don't quite understand, how are you going about copy and pasting [04:50] click on /boot folder under root (8g) copy focus on /mnt/hd1/boot (80g) paste is greyed out [04:51] chovynz34654: oh, you might not have write priveleges [04:51] im doing it as root [04:51] i think [04:52] did you just open the file manager [04:53] yeah. Thats under user name. I dont really get the users vs root bit yet [04:53] do i need to do what i want to under terminal? [04:54] chovynz34654: I haven't used EDU yet, so does it use GNOME or KDE [04:54] Gnome [04:55] chovynz34654: you will need to run the file manager (name?) under root [04:56] chovynz34654: I use KDE, and I don't know how you do that, maybe I can look it up [04:58] chovynz34654: I'm going to guess 'sudo nautilus' [04:58] chovynz34654: then try it [04:59] yes nautils 2.14.3 [04:59] you are trying to copy your /boot partition to the /boot partition on the other disk? [04:59] yes tideline [05:00] ah no [05:00] chovynz34654, I think the best way to do that is with somthing more low level like dd in the command line [05:00] ok..."dd"? what does that mean? [05:00] that will copy block for block [05:00] I dont think it means anything... it probably did ;-) [05:00] lol [05:01] man dd gives dd - convert and copy file [05:01] and its name [05:01] so go to command line...that is not terminal is it [05:01] y [05:01] its terminal [05:01] ah...lol too late [05:02] I wrote a blog entry about something just like this you may want to check it out, it's about disk recovery with reiserfs and ext3 as boot so it may help [05:02] let me get a link [05:03] chovynz34654, try this: http://blog.internetinnovation.com/?p=2 [05:03] there is a section about copying with dd from one disk to another [05:04] check the section about the /boot partition very similar to what you want to do I think [05:04] it is actually dump not dd [05:05] yeah thats quite simialr to what im doing [05:05] thnx for link [05:07] what is reisurfs? [05:08] nvm found it [05:08] reiserfs is just another journaling fs like ext3 [05:08] it's creator is actually in jail now [05:09] o.O [05:09] dd = disk dump [05:10] that makes sense [05:11] i guess :) [05:11] http://linux.about.com/od/commands/l/blcmdl.htm === nathan [n=nathan@60.234.175.32] has joined #edubuntu === chovynz34654 [n=t@60.234.175.32] has left #edubuntu [] [05:22] night all [05:22] night tide [05:23] thnx for your help [05:23] night === chovynz [n=nathan@60.234.175.32] has joined #edubuntu [05:24] bon bon...can you read this message? [05:24] yup [05:25] ok thnx [05:28] BonBonTheJon: can you C&P the last lines of Tide for me? I closed the window. :\ [05:29] night all [05:29] that makes sense [05:30] that good? [05:30] lol the ones with the link and any HD copying info [05:31] [23:03] chovynz34654, try this: http://blog.internetinnovation.com/?p=2 [05:31] that? [05:31] thnx [05:34] *scratches head* i dont understand most of that file. [05:34] *link [05:35] chovynz: did you get the files copied [05:35] no. still trying things [05:35] looking at edubuntus docs [05:39] ....how do i login as root in terminal [05:40] geez....theres got to be a simpler way to copy a HD [05:41] chovynz: are you using a terminal windows? [05:41] chovynz: do 'sudo passwd root' to set the password [05:41] chovynz: then 'su' to log in as root, it will ask you for the password you just entered [05:42] thank you. [05:42] most helpful [05:42] chovynz: did it work? [05:42] yep [05:42] ok good === sbalneav [n=sbalneav@S0106000b6a5631f9.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #edubuntu [05:45] Evening all [05:45] evening sbalneav [05:46] BonBonTheJon: where can i find info on the commands for linux [05:46] evening sbalneav [05:46] Hello hello [05:46] BonBonTheJon: things like sudo su dd etc.... [05:47] thats part of my problem i think...i dont know what to do or type or where to look [05:47] chovynz: well, some info is installed, they are called man pages [05:47] chovynz: if you know a command, run 'man command' and you will get info. [05:47] chovynz: there are plenty of web sites that give info, like http://www.linux.org/lessons/beginner/toc.html [05:47] thnx...see i didnt know that :D [05:48] chovynz: also you can check out the wiki at http://wiki.ubuntu.com [05:48] chovynz: and of course here on irc [05:48] thnx both those links are helpful. [05:49] chovynz: a lot of stuff is similar between other distros, so most tutorials will work [05:49] chovynz: except when it deals with installing software, use synaptic [05:49] yeah got that one already [05:49] Im a windows user from way back....i've found learning linux is ....challenging [05:50] chovynz: yeah, but I find working with linux, you come to understand how the computer works more [05:50] For the most part, you shouldn't really ever need to use the command line. [05:50] Most things you'd "normally" like to do, you should be able to do graphically in Ubuntu. [05:51] mostly [05:51] :D [05:51] sbalneav: and if there isnt, then I think we need to get someone writing some code :) [05:52] sbalneav: heres a challenge for you. Is there a way to (GUI) copy & paste system files (i.e. /boot) from one HD to another clean one? [05:52] chovynz: Are you trying to simply backup the files, or make a bootable hard drive? [05:53] BonBonTheJon: lol now i gotta explain it all again [05:53] bootable HD [05:53] chovynz: :) [05:53] sbalneav: i have 2 HD [05:53] 8g and 80g [05:54] 8g is a friends, has EDU on it [05:54] 80g is mine and i want to install linux on to it [05:54] im returning 8g soon [05:54] So, why not simply install edubuntu on it, then just copy over the data? [05:55] cause my cd isn't working anymore [05:55] :D [05:55] Which, the drive, or the Ubuntu cd? [05:55] sbalneav: we think it is the cd [05:55] *bangs head on desk* [05:56] :) [05:56] chovynz: can you re-download edubuntu? [05:56] That's easy: borrow another cd rom drive from a friend. Try with that one. [05:56] i reallllllly dont want to lol....i want to get it up and running this arvo :D [05:57] been working on this issue for a number of days now [05:57] that and i have limited broadband [05:58] Trying to do a hard drive to hard drive move isn't easy, but it's not impossible. [05:58] if i re dl edubuntu that'll take a big chunk out [05:58] sbalneav: whats the least complicated way of doing hd to hd [05:59] Easy. Trade your 80 for your friends 8. He gets a bigger drive, you get an edubuntu install. Everyone's happy :) [05:59] I'll see if I can dig you up an article. [06:00] This isn't an "easy" thing on any any os, including windows. [06:00] lol "Easy. Trade your 80 for your friends 8. He gets a bigger drive, you get an edubuntu install. Everyone's happy :)" [06:01] if this were windows id use ghost or something [06:02] That's something you have to buy. [06:02] argh....my times up.......thnx for help guys.......ill come back here later....better yet ill leave this window open [06:02] Leave it open, I'm looking up an article, I'll paste it. [06:02] bbl in 2 ish hours [06:03] Do you have both hard drives installed? === pc22 [n=nes@210.213.219.184] has joined #edubuntu [06:14] back...for a few [06:15] yes i have both hd installed [06:15] 8-g is clean and ready to take new OS [06:15] *80 [06:17] ok, I can probably step you through the process, if need be. It'll take a bit of work, though. [06:18] sbalneav & BonBonTheJon: why does my 80g keep losing its access path? How can i make my 80g HD a permanant HD? [06:18] What do you mean? [06:19] well every few hours i have to use "Disks" again and point the 80HD access path to teh folder i created (/mnt/hd2) [06:20] Disks Manager [06:20] Hi guys....I just got the edubuntu server up and running and could use a little help on the config/ help with the thin client portion. [06:20] You're probably mounting it as a user, and when you log out, the automounter unmounts it. [06:20] sky123: What seems to be the problem? [06:20] sky123: what is your question [06:20] Do I need to set up dhcp on the box with two nics like the wiki says or is that unecessary [06:20] i already have a dhcp server on my network [06:20] If you've installed edubuntu, the dhcpd server should be there already. [06:21] and configured the edubuntu box with a static ip... ( just read your comment ohhhh). [06:21] chovynz: OK, what hard drive is your root, and which one's your 80 gig? [06:22] okay assuming the client machines PXE boot up... (pardon my newbness on this)...and I have one dhcp server serving up the rest of the workstations on my network....and edubuntu as the tftp/pxe dhcp installed...and I pxe boot...will the two dhcp contend with each other...?? [06:22] chovynz: Could you paste the results of the command "sudo fdisk -l" to the pastebin? [06:22] !pastebin [06:22] pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (you can always find it in the channel topic, among other useful things) [06:22] 8g is root - master- hda. 80g is /mnt/hd2 - slave - hdb [06:23] ok sbalneav [06:23] sky123: Does the edubuntu server have 2 nics in it? [06:23] sorry..long question..not necessarily a /var/log/messages post...i know about pastebin...my appologies.. [06:23] nope [06:23] just one [06:23] Then yes, they will cause problems with each other. [06:24] Best way to deploy any LTSP network is to have a separate nic for just the terminals, that way they don't interfere with other dhcpd servers. [06:24] sky123: The pastebin comment was for chovynz [06:25] sbalneav: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27752/ [06:25] so in essence if there is already a network say... DSL---firewall----network(192.168.0.1)---edubuntu----network(10.0.0.0) or something would have to be setup....sort of a double natted environment?? [06:26] does that sound right?... [06:26] No, the edubuntu server won't need natting, remember, all the processes are going to be running on the edubuntu server, so they'll just see and talk over the 192.168.0.0 network. [06:27] Setting up a 192.168.1.0 network for the terminals to live on, makes it so you only run the dhcpd server on that network, and it only serves the thin clients. [06:27] All they do then is just move the X windows packets back and forth on that network. [06:28] chovynz: OK, well, looks like you've got it partitoned already. [06:28] OK, type this: [06:28] sudo su - [06:28] and a warning. [06:28] I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY DAMAGE/MISTYPED COMMANDS. [06:29] heh. i dont hold you resposible sbalneav :D [06:29] ok [06:29] okay....say the dhcp server config file which the wiki talks about is adjusted to say... 192.168.1.0....with one nic on the machine...there is still contention by potential workstations that connect (ie not thin clients) which may choose 192.168.0.0 or 192.168.1.0...but with two nics IT IS sort of natterd no?? or am i seeing this all wrong.... [06:29] so, first thing you want to do is make a swap partition on hdb5. [06:29] mkswap /dev/hdb5 [06:30] it already is isnt it? [06:30] If you install a second nic, and hang a switch off it, and hang the terminals off that, they will be separate, yes. [06:31] chovynz: it's PARTITIONED as swap, but unless you've FORMATTED it as swap, it won't act as a swap drive. [06:31] okay...but with the one nic setup....what is required??...(just trying to understand it ;) ) [06:31] sky123: You'd have to adjust one, or both of the dhcpd.conf files. [06:32] Edubuntu by default hands out dynamic addresses. If the other dhcpd server does the same, it will have a confilct. [06:32] sbalneav: if say adjust the edubuntu server to say a 192.168.1.0 dhcp network...still the conetention or?? [06:32] chovynz: Tell me when the mkswap command is done. [06:32] sky123: No, that won't work. You can't have a nic be both a .1.0 and a .0.0 network. [06:33] sblaneav: so in essence only one dhcp server with the location of tftp,pxe info etc.. [06:33] sbalneav: done [06:33] That's usually easiest, yes. Not necessary, you can do it other ways, but thats the simplest. [06:34] sblaneav: also that basically means one of the dhcp servers turned off. [06:34] chovynz: OK, now we need to move the data across. [06:34] right? [06:34] sky123: Either that, or move both to using static assigned addresses. [06:34] okay [06:34] Search on wiki.ltsp.org for the dhcp section [06:35] It has all sorts of good info. [06:35] chovynz: Give me a second to look up the exact set of command line options I need... [06:35] maybe using the two nics isnt such a "bad" idea and in essence isolating requests to the edubuntu server via a physical switch... [06:35] that way any client machines can be easily identified.. [06:37] 2nd...uhmmmm..okay 40th question...lol...assuming the bios on the clients have no PXE boot capability...what are you using to get the ability for the clients to be able to have the PXE cabalities?? [06:37] sky123: etherboot. [06:38] OK, chovynz, lets do this: [06:38] is that a iso disc or something on the internet that can be dl'd ? [06:38] echo "mnt" > /excludes [06:38] echo "proc" >> /excludes [06:38] echo "media" >> /excludes [06:39] !etherboot [06:39] etherboot: Bootstrapping for various network adapters. In component universe, is optional. Version 5.4.1-1 (dapper), package size 21206 kB, installed size 25052 kB [06:39] asked and answered...lol [06:39] echo "dev" >> /excludes [06:39] chovynz: So you should have a file in your root with 4 lines in it [06:39] mnt [06:40] proc [06:40] media [06:40] dev [06:40] Yes? [06:40] sbalneav: not sure...i did those commands [06:40] cat /excludes [06:40] true [06:40] what does cat do? [06:41] hmm...okay showing more newbness....how to get a bootable iso or floppy to "etherboot"?? [06:41] cat "catenates" or appends files. i.e. dumps them to the terminal [06:41] ah. thnx [06:41] sky123: Read that on the wiki.ltsp.org as well [06:41] Etherboot section. [06:41] chovynz: OK, [06:42] Have you mounted the hdb1? i.e. type the command "mount | grep hdb1" [06:43] is it mounted on your "/mnt/hdb1" you created? [06:43] im sorry sbalneav...i need to go....will you be on in 2 hours? [06:44] or can you point me to a link? [06:44] Maybe yes, maybe no. [06:44] There's an article on debian-administration.org, as well, I'm working from some notes of my own. [06:44] thnx for youe help here...hopefully ill see you in 2 hours :D [06:45]