[03:18] <tideline> anyone here working on the handbook?
[03:35] <BonBonTheJon> tideline: I am, somewhat
[03:37] <tideline> BonBonTheJon, is the work coming out of/being updated in C or working or orig dir?
[03:37] <BonBonTheJon> tideline: I just started helping, but I look in the C directory
[03:37] <chovynz34654> I'm setting up an 80G HD with some partitions for Edubuntu / win 98 :\. I need some help getting some of the setting right 
[03:38] <BonBonTheJon> chovynz34654: what do you need help with
[03:38] <tideline> BonBonTheJon, ok thanks - also do you know if the task list on the wiki is up to date?
[03:38] <BonBonTheJon> tideline: no idea, I am working on the Concepts: Networking page
[03:39] <tideline> BonBonTheJon, ok thanks!
[03:39] <chovynz34654> BonBonTheJon: I'd like to set up some partitions (how many specifically i dont really know yet. What i do know is this ...
[03:42] <chovynz34654> ./boot partition = 2Gb, swap partition = (2xRAM) = 1.5gb, / partition = leftover, win98 partition 4gb. Sounds reasonable so far? 
[03:43] <tideline> chovynz34654, you dont need that big of a boot partition
[03:43] <BonBonTheJon> chovynz34654: everything besides boot, only needs to be like 50 MB, maybe
[03:43] <chovynz34654> tideline : how much (that was one of the things that confused me after looking at some docs)
[03:44] <tideline> chovynz34654, like BonBonTheJon said 50 would be a lot I usually make mine about 120 ish
[03:44] <chovynz34654> 120mb for a boot? 
[03:44] <chovynz34654> for edubuntu
[03:45] <BonBonTheJon> yeah
[03:45] <tideline> yeah
[03:45] <chovynz34654> k. done. boot needs to be first partition correct?
[03:45] <BonBonTheJon> I don't think it NEEDS to be, but I always do
[03:46] <tideline> it is best to have it the first section of addressable blocks
[03:46] <tideline> or something like that
[03:47] <chovynz34654> ok. Next Q. I have Edu6.06 already installed and upgraded on HDA1...(im installing EDU onto my primary slave so i can return my friends HD)
[03:47] <chovynz34654> theres an option under installing...
[03:47] <chovynz34654> copy data from another partition
[03:48] <chovynz34654> If i use that will it copy the data already D/led and installed onto my .....argh
[03:49] <tideline> thats is, your boot partition must be contained within the first 1024 cylinders
[03:49] <tideline> I have never used that option
[03:51] <tideline> there are many ways to get data from one disk to another
[03:51] <tideline> let me see if I can find something I wrote a while ago
[03:52] <chovynz34654> I have 2 HDs. the 8g is my friends which id like to return soon. The 80G is mine which id like to set up as the booter in Edubuntu
[03:53] <chovynz34654> 80g will have a boot part, a root part, 2 data parts, 1 win98 part
[03:53] <tideline> are you going to install onto the 80gb'er?
[03:53] <tideline> a fresh install?
[03:53] <chovynz34654> EDU is already installed o the 8g
[03:53] <chovynz34654> fresh onto 80
[03:53] <tideline> right but are you going to do a fresh install on the 80
[03:54] <chovynz34654> yes fresh onto 80
[03:54] <chovynz34654> I have a cd that im running trying to set this up
[03:55] <chovynz34654> 8 is master, 80 is slave
[03:55] <tideline> ok I would put the 80gb disk on the contoler as primary and the 8gb on as slave, install the OS's you want, then rsync or copy from the 80 to the 8
[03:56] <chovynz34654> ok got that.
[03:56] <chovynz34654> what im having trouble with is the boot root and win parts
[03:56] <tideline> do you have apps that you have installed other than what comes with edu?
[03:56] <tideline> ah
[03:56] <tideline> are you going to use grub?
[03:56] <chovynz34654> yeah
[03:57] <chovynz34654> i've written down a plan, but im struggling to set my HD up like i want
[03:58] <chovynz34654> (bearing in mind I wont have my friends HD soon)
[03:58] <chovynz34654> wheres the info i need...
[03:58] <chovynz34654> *Heres the info i need
[03:58] <chovynz34654> Q. What sizes do i need the partitions to be
[03:59] <chovynz34654> and how do i install win after into some freespace after linux
[03:59] <tideline> I dont know what a normal Windows Install takes up space wise?
[03:59] <chovynz34654> as far as i can tell i need 4 parts... "/" "/boot" "swap" "win98"
[04:00] <tideline> I would imagine 25-30 gb of the 80 would be enough
[04:00] <chovynz34654> onyl need 4g
[04:00] <chovynz34654> itll be a stripped down version of win98
[04:00] <chovynz34654> only esentials and graphic drivers
[04:00] <tideline> ok
[04:00] <BonBonTheJon> chovynz34654: if the computer is fast enough, why not do windows in a virtual machine
[04:01] <chovynz34654> tried virtual
[04:01] <tideline> so i would add a little space for additional storage
[04:01] <tideline> did you try parallels?
[04:01] <chovynz34654> it wont run some of the progs im running under windows (maplestory)
[04:01] <tideline> it has worked great for me, but it's not free
[04:01] <tideline> I have some guys at work that use qemu
[04:01] <chovynz34654> :\ cant afford atm
[04:02] <tideline> I personally don't use any Windows anymore, even at work!
[04:02] <BonBonTheJon> chovynz34654: did you try vmware/qemu, or did you try wine
[04:02] <chovynz34654> trid wine
[04:02] <chovynz34654> *tried
[04:02] <BonBonTheJon> chovynz34654: ahh, see vmware runs windows from within linux, so it will work, just need to set it up
[04:03] <chovynz34654> vmware costs
[04:03] <chovynz34654> i cant pay any more money atm
[04:03] <tideline> qemu is a very viable option
[04:03] <tideline> its free
[04:03] <chovynz34654> got a link?
[04:03] <BonBonTheJon> !qemu
[04:03] <ubotu> qemu is an emulator you can use to run another operating system - see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WindowsXPUnderQemuHowTo
[04:03] <BonBonTheJon> !vmware
[04:03] <ubotu> VMWare Player is in Ubuntu's !Multiverse repository. Instructions to install VMWare Server can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InstallingVMWare
[04:05] <chovynz34654> thnx for links
[04:05] <chovynz34654> hmmm...these dont help me yet
[04:06] <chovynz34654> they would if i were at a gui or shell...but atm im at formatting / partition setup from the CD
[04:07] <chovynz34654> ok ill ask from a different angle
[04:07] <BonBonTheJon> chovynz34654: install EDU on the drive, then when that is up, you can install Windows in VMWare or Qemu
[04:07] <chovynz34654> how much freespace should i leave on the 80.....ok bonbon
[04:07] <BonBonTheJon> chovynz34654: for...?
[04:09] <chovynz34654> (so i can install win98 later / after EDU)
[04:10] <chovynz34654> nvm i answered my own question
[04:10] <chovynz34654> thnx for your help guys
[04:10] <BonBonTheJon> for a clean install of edubuntu, I guess 50 or 100 or more for /boot, 2 times memory for swap, the rest can be /
[04:13] <chovynz34654> oh thats why i was getting confused....the 80g (new as of 6 months ago) previously had win98 on it. 98 didnt handle it very well and now i have bad sectors on the disk. After formatting that shouldn't matter but i was wondering if i partitioned the HD into a few data drives, would it reduce the problems i get from bad sectors (if any ever appear again after installing linux)  
[04:14] <BonBonTheJon> chovynz34654: this is getting beyond my reach, but I think the disk can detect bad sectors and not use them
[04:15] <chovynz34654> k :)
[04:16] <BonBonTheJon> chovynz34654: I am most likely wrong, but for what its work
[04:16] <BonBonTheJon> worth*
[04:16] <tideline> dont save any space on the drive
[04:16] <tideline> quem and vmware use files on the local system for OS
[04:16] <BonBonTheJon> yeah
[04:18] <tideline> so here is a generic partition table
[04:18] <chovynz34654> win98 does not however. if i install win98 later i will need a partition. I wanted to set that possibilty up now incase these two programs dont run MapleStory. MS is the ONLY reason I'm still using 98 on my othercomputer 
[04:18] <tideline> crap I will use a paste bin its a little large
[04:18] <chovynz34654> everything else i need is available on linux
[04:19] <BonBonTheJon> chovynz34654: just don't partition jsut enough space for win98
[04:19] <BonBonTheJon> chovynz34654: and if you get a virtual machine working you can expand the / partition
[04:19] <tideline> chovynz34654, BonBonTheJon has a good point
[04:20] <chovynz34654> good thought
[04:20] <tideline> but if you were going to know you were going to use qemu I wouldn't bother just use the entire balance of the disk after you have boot and swap
[04:21] <chovynz34654> so boot does need to be a partition?
[04:21] <BonBonTheJon> tideline: but my way will work in either case
[04:21] <BonBonTheJon> chovynz34654: yeah, say 150MB
[04:21] <chovynz34654> aiighty
[04:21] <chovynz34654> :( my installation failed
[04:22] <BonBonTheJon> chovynz34654: what do you mean
[04:22] <tideline> BonBonTheJon, right I agree nothing meant by my remarks
[04:22] <BonBonTheJon> tideline: I was just pointing out :)
[04:23] <tideline> chovynz34654, what happened?
[04:23] <tideline> did you get any useful info?
[04:24] <chovynz34654> "./pool/main/h/hplip/hplip-data_0.9.1-4ubuntu1_all.deb file failed the md5 checksum verification. Your CD-ROM or this file may have been corrupted."
[04:25] <BonBonTheJon> chovynz34654: is this a new cd?
[04:25] <chovynz34654> yes :( CD image
[04:25] <tideline> chovynz34654, did you check the MD5 after you downloaded it?
[04:26] <chovynz34654> i didn't. My friends CD. it might be ROM. The CD worked before to install to his HD as well.
[04:27] <chovynz34654> this is frustrating
[04:27] <tideline> hang in there
[04:27] <chovynz34654> :\
[04:27] <BonBonTheJon> chovynz34654: we are here to help
[04:27] <chovynz34654> ok heres what im goon try....
[04:28] <chovynz34654> *gonna
[04:28] <chovynz34654> i have a working 8g HD. I have a clean 80G HD as slave
[04:28] <chovynz34654> EDU is already installed on 8g
[04:29] <BonBonTheJon> download, check, and burn on edu
[04:29] <chovynz34654> ill direct copy over 8HD to 80HD 
[04:29] <chovynz34654> swap cables (master & slave) and see if that works
[04:30] <BonBonTheJon> chovynz34654: its worth a try
[04:30] <chovynz34654> meanwhile im ordering a couple of cds :D
[04:31] <BonBonTheJon> chovynz34654: good call
[04:32] <chovynz34654> want to hear a linux horror story? (aka lessons ill never forget)
[04:33] <tideline> chovynz34654, sure
[04:36] <chovynz34654> when the 80g was still a W98 HD, i was trying to get EDU to recognise the HD so i could access the files and transfer to a backup machine. I didnt know how to do that so i read up and fiddling around. I used "Disks" under sys -> admin. 
[04:37] <chovynz34654> i pointed the mount point for the 80g HD to /dev (made sense to me)
[04:37] <BonBonTheJon> :(
[04:37] <chovynz34654> after clicking ok....i couldnt do anything else
[04:37] <BonBonTheJon> eeek
[04:37] <chovynz34654> i panicked....and read up trying to fix that mistake for hours
[04:38] <chovynz34654> most solutions involved doing something like go to shell and type ...
[04:38] <BonBonTheJon> chovynz34654: did you ever figure out how, I have no idea unless you chroot'ed into the drive and fixed it
[04:38] <chovynz34654> i couldn't GET to shell or terminal or anything
[04:39] <chovynz34654> so that was no go
[04:39] <chovynz34654> i hard rebooted
[04:39] <chovynz34654> it didnt save the session, so my mistake wasnt in the system
[04:39] <chovynz34654> phew O.O
[04:40] <chovynz34654> (try it out on a trash HD) lesson : NEVER direct your points to any of the systme folders...make one up first
[04:46] <chovynz34654> ok another question for you....
[04:46] <BonBonTheJon> yes...
[04:47] <chovynz34654> how come i cant (using gui) copy and paste the boot folder on 8g to 80g
[04:48] <BonBonTheJon> I don't quite understand, how are you going about copy and pasting
[04:50] <chovynz34654> click on /boot folder under root (8g)    copy     focus on /mnt/hd1/boot (80g)      paste is greyed out
[04:51] <BonBonTheJon> chovynz34654: oh, you might not have write priveleges
[04:51] <chovynz34654> im doing it as root
[04:51] <chovynz34654> i think
[04:52] <BonBonTheJon> did you just open the file manager
[04:53] <chovynz34654> yeah. Thats under user name. I dont really get the users vs root bit yet
[04:53] <chovynz34654> do i need to do what i want to under terminal?
[04:54] <BonBonTheJon> chovynz34654: I haven't used EDU yet, so does it use GNOME or KDE
[04:54] <chovynz34654> Gnome
[04:55] <BonBonTheJon> chovynz34654: you will need to run the file manager (name?) under root
[04:56] <BonBonTheJon> chovynz34654: I use KDE, and I don't know how you do that, maybe I can look it up
[04:58] <BonBonTheJon> chovynz34654: I'm going to guess 'sudo nautilus'
[04:58] <BonBonTheJon> chovynz34654: then try it
[04:59] <chovynz34654> yes nautils 2.14.3
[04:59] <tideline> you are trying to copy your /boot partition to the /boot partition on the other disk?
[04:59] <chovynz34654> yes tideline
[05:00] <chovynz34654> ah no
[05:00] <tideline> chovynz34654, I think the best way to do that is with somthing more low level like dd in the command line
[05:00] <chovynz34654> ok..."dd"? what does that mean?
[05:00] <tideline> that will copy block for block
[05:00] <tideline> I dont think it means anything... it probably did ;-)
[05:00] <chovynz34654> lol
[05:01] <tideline> man dd gives dd - convert and copy file
[05:01] <tideline> and its name
[05:01] <chovynz34654> so go to command line...that is not terminal is it
[05:01] <tideline> y
[05:01] <tideline> its terminal
[05:01] <chovynz34654> ah...lol too late
[05:02] <tideline> I wrote a blog entry about something just like this you may want to check it out, it's about disk recovery with reiserfs and ext3 as boot so it may help
[05:02] <tideline> let me get a link
[05:03] <tideline> chovynz34654, try this: http://blog.internetinnovation.com/?p=2
[05:03] <tideline> there is a section about copying with dd from one disk to another
[05:04] <tideline> check the section about the /boot partition very similar to what you want to do I think
[05:04] <tideline> it is actually dump not dd
[05:05] <chovynz34654> yeah thats quite simialr to what im doing
[05:05] <chovynz34654> thnx for link
[05:07] <chovynz34654> what is reisurfs?
[05:08] <chovynz34654> nvm found it
[05:08] <tideline> reiserfs is just another journaling fs like ext3
[05:08] <tideline> it's creator is actually in jail now
[05:09] <chovynz34654> o.O
[05:09] <chovynz34654> dd = disk dump
[05:10] <tideline> that makes sense
[05:11] <chovynz34654> i guess :)
[05:11] <chovynz34654> http://linux.about.com/od/commands/l/blcmdl.htm
[05:22] <tideline> night all
[05:22] <nathan> night tide
[05:23] <nathan> thnx for your help
[05:23] <BonBonTheJon> night
[05:24] <chovynz> bon bon...can you read this message?
[05:24] <BonBonTheJon> yup
[05:25] <chovynz> ok thnx
[05:28] <chovynz> BonBonTheJon: can you C&P the last lines of Tide for me? I closed the  window. :\
 night all
 that makes sense
[05:30] <BonBonTheJon> that good?
[05:30] <chovynz> lol the ones with the link and any HD copying info
[05:31] <BonBonTheJon> [23:03]  <tideline> chovynz34654, try this: http://blog.internetinnovation.com/?p=2
[05:31] <BonBonTheJon> that?
[05:31] <chovynz> thnx
[05:34] <chovynz> *scratches head* i dont understand most of that file. 
[05:34] <chovynz> *link
[05:35] <BonBonTheJon> chovynz: did you get the files copied
[05:35] <chovynz> no. still trying things
[05:35] <chovynz> looking at edubuntus docs
[05:39] <chovynz> ....how do i login as root in terminal
[05:40] <chovynz> geez....theres got to be a simpler way to copy a HD
[05:41] <BonBonTheJon> chovynz: are you using a terminal windows?
[05:41] <BonBonTheJon> chovynz: do 'sudo passwd root' to set the password
[05:41] <BonBonTheJon> chovynz: then 'su' to log in as root, it will ask you for the password you just entered
[05:42] <chovynz> thank you.
[05:42] <chovynz> most helpful
[05:42] <BonBonTheJon> chovynz: did it work?
[05:42] <chovynz> yep
[05:42] <BonBonTheJon> ok good
[05:45] <sbalneav> Evening all
[05:45] <BonBonTheJon> evening sbalneav
[05:46] <chovynz> BonBonTheJon: where can i find info on the commands for linux
[05:46] <chovynz> evening sbalneav
[05:46] <sbalneav> Hello hello
[05:46] <chovynz> BonBonTheJon: things like sudo su dd etc....
[05:47] <chovynz> thats part of my problem i think...i dont know what to do or type or where to look
[05:47] <BonBonTheJon> chovynz: well, some info is installed, they are called man pages
[05:47] <BonBonTheJon> chovynz: if you know a command, run 'man command' and you will get info.
[05:47] <BonBonTheJon> chovynz: there are plenty of web sites that give info, like http://www.linux.org/lessons/beginner/toc.html
[05:47] <chovynz> thnx...see i didnt know that :D
[05:48] <BonBonTheJon> chovynz: also you can check out the wiki at http://wiki.ubuntu.com
[05:48] <BonBonTheJon> chovynz: and of course here on irc
[05:48] <chovynz> thnx both those links are helpful.
[05:49] <BonBonTheJon> chovynz: a lot of stuff is similar between other distros, so most tutorials will work
[05:49] <BonBonTheJon> chovynz: except when it deals with installing software, use synaptic
[05:49] <chovynz> yeah got that one already
[05:49] <chovynz> Im a windows user from way back....i've found learning linux is ....challenging
[05:50] <BonBonTheJon> chovynz: yeah, but I find working with linux, you come to understand how the computer works more
[05:50] <sbalneav> For the most part, you shouldn't really ever need to use the command line.
[05:50] <sbalneav> Most things you'd "normally" like to do, you should be able to do graphically in Ubuntu.
[05:51] <chovynz> mostly
[05:51] <chovynz> :D
[05:51] <BonBonTheJon> sbalneav: and if there isnt, then I think we need to get someone writing some code :)
[05:52] <chovynz> sbalneav: heres a challenge for you. Is there a way to (GUI) copy & paste system files (i.e. /boot)  from one HD to another clean one?
[05:52] <sbalneav> chovynz: Are you trying to simply backup the files, or make a bootable hard drive?
[05:53] <chovynz> BonBonTheJon: lol now i gotta explain it all again
[05:53] <chovynz> bootable HD
[05:53] <BonBonTheJon> chovynz: :)
[05:53] <chovynz> sbalneav: i have 2 HD
[05:53] <chovynz> 8g and 80g
[05:54] <chovynz> 8g is a friends, has EDU on it
[05:54] <chovynz> 80g is mine and i want to install linux on to it
[05:54] <chovynz> im returning 8g soon
[05:54] <sbalneav> So, why not simply install edubuntu on it, then just copy over the data?
[05:55] <chovynz> cause my cd isn't working anymore
[05:55] <chovynz> :D
[05:55] <sbalneav> Which, the drive, or the Ubuntu cd?
[05:55] <BonBonTheJon> sbalneav: we think it is the cd
[05:55] <chovynz> *bangs head on desk*
[05:56] <chovynz> :)
[05:56] <BonBonTheJon> chovynz: can you re-download edubuntu?
[05:56] <sbalneav> That's easy: borrow another cd rom drive from a friend.  Try with that one.
[05:56] <chovynz> i reallllllly dont want to lol....i want to get it up and running this arvo :D
[05:57] <chovynz> been working on this issue for a number of days now
[05:57] <chovynz> that and i have limited broadband
[05:58] <sbalneav> Trying to do a hard drive to hard drive move isn't easy, but it's not impossible.
[05:58] <chovynz> if i re dl edubuntu that'll take a big chunk out
[05:58] <chovynz> sbalneav:  whats the least complicated way of doing hd to hd 
[05:59] <sbalneav> Easy.  Trade your 80 for your friends 8.  He gets a bigger drive, you get an edubuntu install.  Everyone's happy :)
[05:59] <sbalneav> I'll see if I can dig you up an article.
[06:00] <sbalneav> This isn't an "easy" thing on any any os, including windows.
[06:00] <chovynz> lol "Easy.  Trade your 80 for your friends 8.  He gets a bigger drive, you get an edubuntu install.  Everyone's happy :)"
[06:01] <chovynz> if this were windows id use ghost or something
[06:02] <sbalneav> That's something you have to buy.
[06:02] <chovynz> argh....my times up.......thnx for help guys.......ill come back here later....better yet ill leave this window open
[06:02] <sbalneav> Leave it open, I'm looking up an article, I'll paste it.
[06:02] <chovynz> bbl in 2 ish hours
[06:03] <sbalneav> Do you have both hard drives installed?
[06:14] <chovynz> back...for a few
[06:15] <chovynz> yes i have both hd installed
[06:15] <chovynz> 8-g is clean and ready to take new OS
[06:15] <chovynz> *80
[06:17] <sbalneav> ok, I can probably step you through the process, if need be.  It'll take a bit of work, though.
[06:18] <chovynz> sbalneav & BonBonTheJon: why does my 80g keep losing its access path? How can i make my 80g HD a permanant HD?
[06:18] <sbalneav> What do you mean?
[06:19] <chovynz> well every few hours i have to use "Disks" again and point the 80HD access path to teh folder i created (/mnt/hd2)
[06:20] <chovynz> Disks Manager
[06:20] <sky123> Hi guys....I just got the edubuntu server up and running and could use a little help on the config/ help with the thin client portion. 
[06:20] <sbalneav> You're probably mounting it as a user, and when you log out, the automounter unmounts it.
[06:20] <sbalneav> sky123: What seems to be the problem?
[06:20] <BonBonTheJon> sky123: what is your question
[06:20] <sky123> Do I need to set up dhcp on the box with two nics like the wiki says or is that unecessary 
[06:20] <sky123> i already have a dhcp server on my network 
[06:20] <sbalneav> If you've installed edubuntu, the dhcpd server should be there already.
[06:21] <sky123> and configured the edubuntu box with a static ip... ( just read your comment ohhhh). 
[06:21] <sbalneav> chovynz: OK, what hard drive is your root, and which one's your 80 gig?
[06:22] <sky123> okay assuming the client machines PXE boot up... (pardon my newbness on this)...and I have one dhcp server serving up the rest of the workstations on my network....and edubuntu as the tftp/pxe dhcp installed...and I pxe boot...will the two dhcp contend with each other...??
[06:22] <sbalneav> chovynz: Could you paste the results of the command "sudo fdisk -l" to the pastebin?
[06:22] <sbalneav> !pastebin
[06:22] <ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (you can always find it in the channel topic, among other useful things)
[06:22] <chovynz> 8g is root - master- hda. 80g is /mnt/hd2 - slave - hdb
[06:23] <chovynz> ok sbalneav
[06:23] <sbalneav> sky123: Does the edubuntu server have 2 nics in it?
[06:23] <sky123> sorry..long question..not necessarily a /var/log/messages post...i know about pastebin...my appologies.. 
[06:23] <sky123> nope 
[06:23] <sky123> just one
[06:23] <sbalneav> Then yes, they will cause problems with each other.
[06:24] <sbalneav> Best way to deploy any LTSP network is to have a separate nic for just the terminals, that way they don't interfere with other dhcpd servers.
[06:24] <sbalneav> sky123: The pastebin comment was for chovynz
[06:25] <chovynz> sbalneav: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27752/
[06:25] <sky123> so in essence if there is already a network say...   DSL---firewall----network(192.168.0.1)---edubuntu----network(10.0.0.0) or something would have to be setup....sort of a double natted environment??
[06:26] <sky123> does that sound right?...
[06:26] <sbalneav> No, the edubuntu server won't need natting, remember, all the processes are going to be running on the edubuntu server, so they'll just see and talk over the 192.168.0.0 network.
[06:27] <sbalneav> Setting up a 192.168.1.0 network for the terminals to live on, makes it so you only run the dhcpd server on that network, and it only serves the thin clients.
[06:27] <sbalneav> All they do then is just move the X windows packets back and forth on that network.
[06:28] <sbalneav> chovynz: OK, well, looks like you've got it partitoned already.
[06:28] <sbalneav> OK, type this:
[06:28] <sbalneav> sudo su -
[06:28] <sbalneav> and a warning.
[06:28] <sbalneav> I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY DAMAGE/MISTYPED COMMANDS.
[06:29] <chovynz> heh. i dont hold you resposible sbalneav :D
[06:29] <sbalneav> ok
[06:29] <sky123> okay....say the dhcp server config file which the wiki talks about is adjusted to say... 192.168.1.0....with one nic on the machine...there is still contention by potential workstations that connect (ie not thin clients) which may choose 192.168.0.0 or 192.168.1.0...but with two nics IT IS sort of natterd no?? or am i seeing this all wrong....
[06:29] <sbalneav> so, first thing you want to do is make a swap partition on hdb5.
[06:29] <sbalneav> mkswap /dev/hdb5
[06:30] <chovynz> it already is isnt it?
[06:30] <sbalneav> If you install a second nic, and hang a switch off it, and hang the terminals off that, they will be separate, yes.
[06:31] <sbalneav> chovynz: it's PARTITIONED as swap, but unless you've FORMATTED it as swap, it won't act as a swap drive.
[06:31] <sky123> okay...but with the one nic setup....what is required??...(just trying to understand it ;) ) 
[06:31] <sbalneav> sky123: You'd have to adjust one, or both of the dhcpd.conf files.
[06:32] <sbalneav> Edubuntu by default hands out dynamic addresses.  If the other dhcpd server does the same, it will have a confilct.
[06:32] <sky123> sbalneav: if say adjust the edubuntu server to say a 192.168.1.0 dhcp network...still the conetention or??
[06:32] <sbalneav> chovynz: Tell me when the mkswap command is done.
[06:32] <sbalneav> sky123: No, that won't work.  You can't have  a nic be both a .1.0 and a .0.0 network.
[06:33] <sky123> sblaneav: so in essence only one dhcp server with the location of tftp,pxe info etc.. 
[06:33] <chovynz> sbalneav: done
[06:33] <sbalneav> That's usually easiest, yes.  Not necessary, you can do it other ways, but thats the simplest.
[06:34] <sky123> sblaneav: also that basically means one of the dhcp servers turned off. 
[06:34] <sbalneav> chovynz: OK, now we need to move the data across.
[06:34] <sky123> right?
[06:34] <sbalneav> sky123: Either that, or move both to using static assigned addresses.
[06:34] <sky123> okay 
[06:34] <sbalneav> Search on wiki.ltsp.org for the dhcp section
[06:35] <sbalneav> It has all sorts of good info.
[06:35] <sbalneav> chovynz: Give me a second to look up the exact set of command line options I need...
[06:35] <sky123> maybe using the two nics isnt such a "bad" idea and in essence isolating requests to the edubuntu server via a physical switch... 
[06:35] <sky123> that way any client machines can be easily identified.. 
[06:37] <sky123> 2nd...uhmmmm..okay 40th question...lol...assuming the bios on the clients have no PXE boot capability...what are you using to get the ability for the clients to be able to have the PXE cabalities?? 
[06:37] <sbalneav> sky123: etherboot.
[06:38] <sbalneav> OK, chovynz, lets do this:
[06:38] <sky123> is that a iso disc or something on the internet that can be dl'd ? 
[06:38] <sbalneav> echo "mnt" > /excludes
[06:38] <sbalneav> echo "proc" >> /excludes
[06:38] <sbalneav> echo "media" >> /excludes
[06:39] <sky123> !etherboot
[06:39] <ubotu> etherboot: Bootstrapping for various network adapters. In component universe, is optional. Version 5.4.1-1 (dapper), package size 21206 kB, installed size 25052 kB
[06:39] <sky123> asked and answered...lol 
[06:39] <sbalneav> echo "dev" >> /excludes
[06:39] <sbalneav> chovynz: So you should have a file in your root with 4 lines in it
[06:39] <sbalneav> mnt
[06:40] <sbalneav> proc
[06:40] <sbalneav> media
[06:40] <sbalneav> dev
[06:40] <sbalneav> Yes?
[06:40] <chovynz> sbalneav: not sure...i did those commands
[06:40] <sbalneav> cat /excludes
[06:40] <chovynz> true
[06:40] <chovynz> what does cat do?
[06:41] <sky123> hmm...okay showing more newbness....how to get a bootable iso or floppy to "etherboot"??
[06:41] <sbalneav> cat "catenates" or appends files.  i.e. dumps them to the terminal
[06:41] <chovynz> ah. thnx
[06:41] <sbalneav> sky123: Read that on the wiki.ltsp.org as well
[06:41] <sbalneav> Etherboot section.
[06:41] <sbalneav> chovynz: OK, 
[06:42] <sbalneav> Have you mounted the hdb1? i.e. type the command "mount | grep hdb1"
[06:43] <sbalneav> is it mounted on your "/mnt/hdb1" you created?
[06:43] <chovynz> im sorry sbalneav...i need to go....will you be on in 2 hours?
[06:44] <chovynz> or can you point me to a link?
[06:44] <sbalneav> Maybe yes, maybe no.
[06:44] <sbalneav> There's an article on debian-administration.org, as well, I'm working from some notes of my own.
[06:44] <chovynz> thnx for youe help here...hopefully ill see you in 2 hours :D
[06:45] <sbalneav> Probably not.  It'll be 2 am for me here then :)
[07:49] <sky123> okay...got a little further and have dhcp properly configured on edubuntu and used the rom-tool for etherboot to create an iso...rebooted client and I get a no BIOS32 detected message...can someone help out??
[07:50] <sky123> is the driver wrong?
[08:10] <sky123> hi...still having problems with a pci_init: no BIOS32 detected message...what does that mean?? and what do I need to do to have the client connect to the edubuntu server... 
[08:11] <sky123> ??
[08:18] <sky123> okay....i guess im having trouble creating the image for the etherboot via the rom-omatic..can someone help out?
[09:05] <chovynz> im back
[09:27] <achandra> anyone awake out  there that may  be able to help out with an etherboot issue??
[09:40] <highvoltage> achandra: still kind of waking up here though :)
[10:16] <pygi> hey ogra 
[10:22] <cbx33> ping ogra
[10:29] <highvoltage> pingz ograz!!!
[10:29] <cbx33> highvoltage!!
[10:29] <highvoltage> morning cbx33  :)
[10:29] <cbx33> excellent testing my man
[10:30] <highvoltage> thanks. if I could get my rsync working I'd test with the rc image too :-/
[10:31] <cbx33> heh
[10:32] <cbx33> i see 66808 bit you too
[10:32] <cbx33> did you manage to confirm or deny my sound bug
[10:33] <highvoltage> cbx33: bug number?
[10:33] <highvoltage> cbx33: I don't recall having any sound problems
[10:33] <cbx33> well
[10:33] <cbx33> on a thin client...login u get sound....
[10:34] <cbx33> logout and login as a diff user.... do u get sound?
[10:34] <cbx33> i dont here
[10:34] <highvoltage> ah, I couldn't test that, since I couldn't log in as any other user than the first one
[10:35] <highvoltage> lots of strange things happen after you've logged out and log in again.
[10:35] <cbx33> ah
[10:35] <highvoltage> I think LDM needs to clean up much more
[10:35] <cbx33> yeh
[10:36] <highvoltage> I'm going to make some heavy LDM hacks for tuxlabs. I think worse case sceneario is that we'll have to use GDM + XDMCP again this round, but I'd like to avoid that if at all possible.
[10:37] <cbx33> hmmm
[10:37] <cbx33> think i'll update my lappie and do some testing later
[10:38] <highvoltage> at least with feisty, I'll be able to get more frequent images and do more testing.
[10:38] <cbx33> bbl
[10:38] <highvoltage> cbx33: I've been thinking yesterday...
[10:38] <highvoltage> cbx33: ok, talk to you when you're back
[10:38] <cbx33> no no
[10:38] <cbx33> now is cool
[10:39] <highvoltage> ok
[10:39] <highvoltage> even though there's few Edubuntu bugs at the moment, I think we should have an Edubuntu hug/bug day too on Wednesdays, along with the Ubuntu one.
[10:39] <cbx33> yes
[10:39] <cbx33> good idea
[10:39] <highvoltage> it will be a nice space/forum/platform to co-ordinate testing and bug hunting
[10:40] <cbx33> sounds great
[10:40] <highvoltage> and it's convenient that wednesdays are on the same days as our weekly meeting
[10:40] <cbx33> yes
[10:40] <pygi> :'(
[10:40] <cbx33> we should draft a mailing list announcement 
[10:40] <highvoltage> pygi: I'm sure you'll get there some day :)
[10:41] <pygi> highvoltage: yes, when they kick me out of uni =)
[10:41] <highvoltage> cbx33: good Idea. timing wise, this coming Wednesday is a bit bad time-wise, since it's the day before release
[10:41] <cbx33> yes
[10:41] <cbx33> but in future 
[10:41] <highvoltage> cbx33: perhaps we should start as soon as feisty opens?
[10:41] <cbx33> i agree
[10:42] <highvoltage> that will give us good time to prepare wiki pages, which will help new people get involved, etc, etc
[10:42] <cbx33> clean up as many old bugs be ore devel starts
[10:42] <highvoltage> yep
[10:42] <cbx33> brb
[10:42] <highvoltage> ok
[11:22] <cbx333> highvoltage, did you bugify on LP all your bugs?
[11:22] <crimsun> cbx333: looking forward to some rockin' sounds for Feisty :)
[11:23] <cbx333> oh indeed
[11:23] <cbx333> crimsun, now got my Lexicon effects unit from the uni days all hoooked up to the Delta
[11:23] <crimsun> nice
[11:23] <cbx333> thanks for all the help bud
[11:24] <crimsun> np
[11:24] <highvoltage> cbx333: I buggified ~90% of them
[11:25] <highvoltage> cbx333: some I have to check up on again
[11:25] <cbx333> highvoltage, I'll try to confirm some of them on the RCC release
[11:26] <highvoltage> like this one: http://photos.jonathancarter.co.za/tuxlab-roadshow-2005/img_2757 :)
[11:26] <highvoltage> cbx333: ok thanks, that will certainly be very helpful
[11:26] <cbx333> heheh
[11:32] <cbx333> highvoltage, gcompris is fine with ati driver
[11:32] <cbx333> trying vesa
[11:33] <cbx333> yup that's a confirm from me
[11:33] <highvoltage> cbx333: great, can you confirm it in malone too please?
[11:33] <cbx333> yes about to
[11:33] <cbx333> but hit another really opdd bug
[11:34] <cbx333> reall really odd
[11:34] <cbx333> whilst trying to switch VTTs
[11:34] <cbx333> all the keys just make funn characters
[11:34] <cbx333> I can't switch
[11:34] <cbx333> I guess I must be trying to switch during vesa loading 
[11:34] <cbx333> :S
[11:34] <cbx333> I'll take a pic on my mobile
[11:37] <cbx333> highvoltage, have you experienced it where loading a nautilus window results in 4-5 windows being opened?
[11:38] <cbx333> all at the home dir
[11:38] <highvoltage> cbx333: yes
[11:38] <cbx333> is it bugged?
[11:38] <highvoltage> cbx333: on the thin client just after logging in to
[11:38] <cbx333> I hate that
[11:38] <cbx333> hmm....it does it on normal edgy too
[11:38] <highvoltage> cbx333: no, not yet, I had trouble reproducing it
[11:38] <cbx333> yeh me too
[11:39] <cbx333> just had it whilst loading my memstick on ym phone
[11:39] <highvoltage> but it *does* happen
[11:39] <highvoltage> cbx333: I think you should bug it, I will confirm
[11:39] <cbx333> yeh?
[11:39] <cbx333> ok
[11:39] <cbx333> I don;t know what to file against
[11:40] <cbx333> confirmed your other one
[11:40] <highvoltage> gnome-desktop... or nautilus
[11:40] <highvoltage> I don't think it matters *too* much which one. someone can correct it when more info is available on the bug
[11:41] <cbx333> ok
[11:42] <cbx333> highvoltage, where are the menu entries stored?
[11:43] <highvoltage> which menu entries? like the gnome menu entries?
[11:43] <cbx333> yes
[11:43] <cbx333> like gcompris
[11:43] <highvoltage> just a sec, I can look it up
[11:44] <highvoltage> /usr/share/menu
[11:45] <cbx333> thans
[11:45] <cbx333> just bugged the other one
[11:45] <cbx333> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/67517
[11:46] <highvoltage> cbx333: that's the debian style menus location, then there's also /usr/share/applications, which seem to be the gnome specific ones
[11:46] <cbx333> yeh i got it
[11:49] <highvoltage> bug confirmed.
[11:49] <cbx333> thanks 
[11:49] <cbx333> not a lot of info on the gcompris
[11:50] <highvoltage> might even be a bug with the vesa driver or Xorg
[11:50] <cbx333> yeh
[11:50] <cbx333> gcompris displays very little
[11:50] <cbx333> highvoltage, do you know how I can route all output to a file
[11:50] <highvoltage> I have a feeling that it's not a gcompris problem per se
[11:50] <cbx333> stdout and stderr
[11:51] <highvoltage> cbx333: gcompris >& output
[12:25] <cbx333> highvoltage, got some strace output on that bug
[12:26] <cbx333> I'm gonna post to LP
[12:26] <cbx333> just logged in clicked for home dir and got 5 windows
[12:26] <cbx333> this is silly
[12:29] <highvoltage> cbx333: I got the windows popping up without even clicking on anything
[12:29] <cbx333> yikes
[12:29] <cbx333> I have had that before too
[12:29] <highvoltage> cbx333: it just opened when I logged in
[12:29] <cbx333> did you see my attachemtn to the gcompris one
[12:30] <cbx333> highvoltage, could it be a font issue?
[12:31] <cbx333> check out thhe last 30 or so lines
[12:31] <cbx333> where we see...Fatal Server error
[12:31] <frandavid100> hello!
[12:31] <highvoltage> cbx333: what's the bug number again?
[12:31] <frandavid100> how can I get some info on the student control panel?
[12:31] <cbx333> ahhhh.....I see a SEGFAULT
[12:31] <highvoltage> cbx333: sorry, nm
[12:31] <cbx333> frandavid100, I wrote a lot of it
[12:31] <frandavid100> it doesn't have an "about" button
[12:31] <cbx333> what can I do for you
[12:31] <highvoltage> frandavid100: cbx333 is the current developer on it :)
[12:32] <cbx333> hehe
[12:32] <cbx333> frandavid100, no, there is some documentation about it....
[12:32] <frandavid100> hi cbx333, does it have a webpage?
[12:32] <cbx333> it probably will have this release, or something like it
[12:32] <cbx333> let me fidn the docs
[12:32] <cbx333> highvoltage, where is the doc repo?
[12:33] <cbx333> nixternal, had a rendered of the handbook so far
[12:33] <cbx333> any ideas?
[12:33] <frandavid100> it's not like I can do anything with that info myself, but I want to create a Ubuntu spec to include some sort of internet cafe software
[12:34] <highvoltage> cbx333: I don't know, I don't think I ever had access to it
[12:34] <cbx333> ahhh good plan
[12:34] <cbx333> frandavid100, hang on 2 ticks
[12:34] <frandavid100> and someone who knew how to do it could modify SCP to create that kind of program
[12:35] <frandavid100> that's what I think at least, I can't program a thing so I couldn't tell
[12:35] <cbx333> heheh
[12:35] <cbx333> frandavid100, well,,,, SCP is going to become more generic next release
[12:35] <cbx333> so less of the emphasis on puil/teacher
[12:35] <frandavid100> they're calling me for breakfast, I'll be back in a minute
[12:35] <frandavid100> :)
[12:40] <cbx333> infact frandavid100 I'm writing the next SCP spec today
[12:40] <cbx333> so feel free to make some additions
[12:43] <frandavid100> hi again, cbx333
[12:43] <frandavid100> what's the address of the spec?
[12:44] <cbx333> not written yet
[12:44] <cbx333> hang on switching IRC
[12:49] <cbx33> highvoltage: *gah* - I just had 4 windows load on log in
[12:49] <frandavid100> hiya
[12:49] <frandavid100> what's the content of the spec going to be?
[12:51] <cbx33> um....
[12:52] <frandavid100> I mean, it's a ubuntu/edubuntu spec right? what's the proposal going to be?
[01:14] <cbx33> ogra, I'mworking on the spec now
[01:14] <cbx33> preliminary
[01:15] <cbx33> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StudentControlPanelSpec
[01:22] <lucasvo> cbx33: nice
[01:22] <cbx33> it's getting there
[01:22] <lucasvo> oh, it doesn't exist
[01:22] <lucasvo> I'll add my thoughts later on today
[01:23] <cbx33> luscavo it does now
[01:23] <cbx33> check it
[01:23] <frandavid100> yep it does
[01:23] <pygi> cbx33: ping
[01:23] <cbx33> pongity pong
[01:23] <pygi> o frandavid100, you're the one with mathusalem stuff on -devel
[01:24] <pygi> cbx33: pm
[01:24] <frandavid100> yeah that's me
[01:24] <frandavid100> that thing is just spectacular
[01:24] <pygi> frandavid100: read what Ivan just told you :)
[01:24] <frandavid100> let me check my mail
[01:24] <cbx33> mathusalem?
[01:25] <frandavid100> well yeah, he's right as well
[01:25] <cbx33> please anyonewith ideas add them o the bottom,.....so I can include into the spec
[01:26] <frandavid100> cbx33: you can see mathusalem here
[01:26] <frandavid100> http://tw.apinc.org/weblog/2006/08/22#summer-of-code-ended-mathusalem-continued
[01:26] <lucasvo> cbx33: isn't this a litle short sighted: Easy handling of student LTSP connections on a single LTSP server. ?
[01:26] <pygi> frandavid100: let's see how good it gets for feisty+1
[01:26] <pygi> lucasvo: let's not push it :P
[01:26] <cbx33> lucasvo, that was from the intial spec
[01:27] <frandavid100> think so.
[01:27] <lucasvo> for example if a class uses high power apps, and needs two servers scp is not usable any more
[01:27] <frandavid100> cbx33: have you seen controlaula?
[01:27] <cbx33> frandavid100, no
[01:27] <frandavid100> it mightgive you some good ideas
[01:27] <frandavid100> let me check it
[01:27] <cbx33> oooh ok
[01:27] <cbx33> link me if you can
[01:27] <pygi> frandavid100: no, no, not controlaula :P
[01:27] <pygi> (gambas, vb, eeesshh)
[01:28] <frandavid100> yep
[01:28] <frandavid100> but some of its funcionality is quite cool
[01:28] <pygi> and I think it's development stopped:P
[01:29] <lucasvo> cbx33: I think a "send file" option would be nice
[01:29] <lucasvo> cbx33: also if possible a media streamer
[01:29] <lucasvo> to make a screencast
[01:29] <frandavid100> you can see some features here http://www.itais.net/controlaula/
[01:29] <pygi> lucasvo: let's focus on basic functionality for now :P
[01:29] <pygi> frandavid100: I know, I had some talks with its author
[01:29] <frandavid100> and some more here but in spanish http://www.educalibre.cl/?q=node/106
[01:29] <lucasvo> pygi: well, the basic funtionality is already speced
[01:29] <cbx33> we have basic funtionality
[01:29] <frandavid100> oh right
[01:30] <cbx33> it's not just spec'd it's competed
[01:30] <ogra> cbx33, seen my mails to ubuntu-devel ? 
[01:30] <lucasvo> cbx33: blocking internet access is also good
[01:31] <ogra> the vnc stuff should be in this time 
[01:31] <ogra> lucasvo, thats totally out of scope for SCP
[01:31] <lucasvo> ogra: it is? why?
[01:31] <lucasvo> a classroom needs that 
[01:31] <pygi> not really, no
[01:31] <frandavid100> I don't agree there
[01:31] <ogra> because thats the job of a content filter, not of a tool to control ltsp connections
[01:32] <lucasvo> ogra: no, not a content filter, a blocker
[01:32] <frandavid100> students might be working on some program, but not allowed to surf the web
[01:32] <ogra> lucasvo, thats something SCP can do already
[01:32] <lucasvo> because pupils shouldn't be able to go to wiki pedia if they are supposed to write a text in openoffice
[01:32] <cbx33> ogra, think we'll be able to get SCP to integrate with willow
[01:32] <ogra> cbx33, yes, thats the plan
[01:32] <cbx33> excellent
[01:32] <cbx33> I have drafted an initial spec
[01:33] <ogra> but stay able to use each one indepoendently
[01:33] <cbx33> as you can see it's basic and a litle sketchy
[01:33] <cbx33> ogra, of course
[01:33] <frandavid100> cbx33: should any non-teching features be included in the same spec, or a different one?
[01:33] <pygi> ogra: do we still want me to write a spec for burning on LTSP or is that out now that I'm not coming? :-/
[01:33] <cbx33> frandavid100, the hope is they can be implemented in plugins
[01:33] <ogra> pygi, can do no harm
[01:34] <ogra> frandavid100, SCP should become a generic ltsp session control tool ...
[01:34] <cbx33> ogra, would appreciate any help...I have created the spec on LP and registered it to UDS
[01:34] <lucasvo> cbx33: but the plugins shouldn't just pop up in a submenu
[01:34] <lucasvo> that is too inflexible
[01:34] <cbx33> do you agree about a name change ogra ?
[01:34] <ogra> things that are specific to schools should be in a SCP-school package and be extensions to it
[01:34] <cbx33> lucasvo, ther eis the possibility we can make some have buttons...
[01:34] <cbx33> something in the register command
[01:34] <ogra> cbx33, suggestions ?
[01:34] <cbx33> I know the code...it's possible
[01:35] <frandavid100> cbx33: but should the spec include intended individual plugin goals?
[01:35] <cbx33> frandavid100, yes
[01:35] <lucasvo> cbx33: when I have a portion of the possible actions in a submenu and one in the window itself, that is confusing
[01:35] <cbx33> lucasvo, yes.... I agree
[01:35] <ogra> yup, that needs to become consistent
[01:36] <cbx33> lucasvo, my problem was...as we didnt even have a menu
[01:36] <cbx33> I decided to creat the context menu
[01:36] <cbx33> you're lucky I figured out how to make it dynamic
[01:36] <cbx33> :p
[01:36] <ogra> iright, note the gui changes in the spec
[01:36] <cbx33> I started
[01:36] <ogra> dropping the banner, adding tool and menubars
[01:36] <cbx33> I'll add more in now
[01:36] <cbx33> yes
[01:37] <frandavid100> well then, if that's so there should be a plugin to handle connection times, prepaid connections (with time-outs) and a tarification system
[01:37] <lucasvo> cbx33: I like the controlaula gui
[01:37] <ogra> make mpt (our UI designer at canonical) look over it
[01:37] <ogra> frandavid100, yeah
[01:37] <pygi> lucasvo: heh, controlaula UI sucks big time
[01:37] <lucasvo> cbx33: I also have some good ideas concerning the gui
[01:37] <pygi> usability wise
[01:37] <frandavid100> maybe a user register for special tarifications
[01:37] <ogra> in the SCP-cafe package ;)
[01:37] <cbx33> frandavid100, that is a thought we have had
[01:37] <lucasvo> pygi: I mean the buttons on the right
[01:37] <cbx33> this would require the server/client framework
[01:38] <pygi> lucasvo: usability wise it's still very bad!
[01:38] <cbx33> for the plugins I proposed
[01:38] <pygi> lucasvo: entire app
[01:38] <ogra> cbx33, not at all
[01:38] <lucasvo> cbx33: should I work on an UI suggestion
[01:38] <cbx33> ogra, how are you proposing?
[01:38] <lucasvo> pygi: I haven't used it, I can't comment on that
[01:38] <pygi> lucasvo: that's why I can :P
[01:38] <frandavid100> would it be possible to monitor downloaded or created files, and delete them after a set time?
[01:38] <cbx33> frandavid100, yes
[01:38] <ogra> cbx33, split SCP into a front and backend first before you think about server/client 
[01:38] <cbx33> ogra, ok
[01:38] <ogra> cbx33, also SCP should not gop beyond ltsp
[01:39] <frandavid100> well a cafe owner specifically asked me for that feature
[01:39] <ogra> *go
[01:39] <cbx33> ogra, I agree
[01:39] <ogra> if prople want to manage workstations they should use something else
[01:39] <cbx33> yes
[01:39] <jsgotangco> is that the internet cafe thingie thread
[01:39] <lucasvo> ogra: maybe with the same frontend
[01:39] <jsgotangco> :D
[01:39] <ogra> lucasvo, probably
[01:39] <lucasvo> ogra: I think one should make the backend ltsp only
[01:39] <lucasvo> the frontend could still be adapted
[01:40] <pygi> lucasvo: what??!?
[01:40] <lucasvo> maybe one could make the frontend connect to multiple backends on different servers
[01:40] <ogra> well, my request for the split is rather to make kubuntu happy :)
[01:40] <lucasvo> ogra: of course
[01:40] <cbx33> ogra, ahhh i see
[01:40] <ogra> lucasvo, beyond scope
[01:40] <cbx33> totally a great idea
[01:40] <ogra> thats something it can have in feisty+1 or +2
[01:40] <lucasvo> agree
[01:40] <cbx33> ogra, what do yo uthink about a name change?
[01:40] <cbx33> to aid the genericism
[01:41] <lucasvo> cbx33: +1
[01:41] <frandavid100> that would be needed
[01:41] <ogra> lets see that we focus on achievable goals for feisty
[01:41] <lucasvo> but I don't have a clue, what name one could use
[01:41] <ogra> cbx33, as i asked above ... gimme suggestions :)
[01:41] <frandavid100> student control panel would mislead cafe owners
[01:41] <cbx33> ok
[01:41] <cbx33> I'll think of some
[01:41] <cbx33> can we have a cool name
[01:41] <cbx33> like ubiquity
[01:41] <cbx33> :p
[01:41] <lucasvo> client control
[01:41] <pygi> frandavid100: bleh, we're not targeting caffe owners anyway :P
[01:41] <ogra> easiest would be LTSP Control Panel
[01:41] <ogra> cbx33, please dont
[01:41] <cbx33> ogra, hehehe
[01:41] <jsgotangco> nyahaha
[01:41] <ogra> make it descriptive
[01:42] <frandavid100> the problem is no one does pygi
[01:42] <cbx33> ok you win :p
[01:42] <lucasvo> pygi: well, this is not fully true.
[01:42] <cbx33> it will be my little code name for it hahaha
[01:42] <jsgotangco> frandavid100: well that's why there's add-on software
[01:42] <ogra> probably juat "ltsp session manager"
[01:42] <lucasvo> pygi: plugins, could be also suitable for cafe owners
[01:42] <cbx33> no....we are targetting any ltsp users
[01:42] <jsgotangco> "LSM"
[01:42] <cbx33> lucasvo, ++
[01:42] <cbx33> no more acroyms
[01:42] <pygi> lucasvo: right, but I don't think we'll write plugins for caffe owners
[01:42] <lucasvo> ogra: do people have to know what LTSP means?
[01:42] <cbx33> pygi, why not?
[01:42] <lucasvo> pygi: but other will
[01:42] <pygi> that's not even secondary target
[01:42] <cbx33> If i have time I'll try...if not...others may want to
[01:42] <ogra> lucasvo, people that run ltsp and installed it should ... yes
[01:43] <jsgotangco> why would you even give yourself a problem of users not knowing what ltsp means
[01:43] <lucasvo> pygi: I know several people thinking of using ltsp for webcafe
[01:43] <cbx33> pygi, thinkin of LTSP as a whole
[01:43] <ogra> but you are right, it could even be more generic
[01:43] <cbx33> not just the edubuntu side
[01:43] <cbx33> it is available in ubuntu 
[01:43] <cbx33> ltsp that is
[01:43] <pygi> lucasvo: dude, we're not "Internet Caffe distro" 
[01:43] <cbx33> so SCP should reflect that
[01:43] <ogra> pygi, we are used in a bunch of cafes
[01:43] <cbx33> no.....but this particualr app is cross distro
[01:44] <lucasvo> pygi: no, but ltsp is not only an educational software
[01:44] <cbx33> it could be used in ubun kubun and edubun
[01:44] <pygi> ogra: perhaps that is true, but isn't our main goal education audience
[01:44] <cbx33> it's application is to manage ltsp
[01:44] <cbx33> not for SCP
[01:44] <ogra> and you probably might want timed logouts in a school environment
[01:44] <lucasvo> pygi: yes, but they don't care if it says client or student, if it still does the same function
[01:44] <frandavid100> gotta do some work dudes, will see you later
[01:44] <lucasvo> cya frandavid100 
[01:44] <frandavid100> thanks for the good news
[01:44] <cbx33> bye frandavid100 
[01:44] <frandavid100> ;)
[01:44] <cbx33> any more ideas
[01:44] <cbx33> mail me
[01:45] <cbx33> ;)
[01:45] <ogra> hmm
[01:45] <cbx33> or mail the list
[01:45] <cbx33> even better
[01:45] <pygi> ogra: since I have some plans of organizing a Linux Education Conference in Croatia next year, I want to make Edubuntu strong in eyes of academic & school circles, not in the eyes of caffe owners
[01:45] <ogra> Client Connection Control Panel -> CCCP
[01:45] <lucasvo> cbx33: I'll come up with a UI suggestion, or anyone else want to do this?
[01:45] <frandavid100> which list? edubuntu?
[01:45] <cbx33> pygi, but
[01:45] <ogra> :)
[01:45] <cbx33> you're missing the point
[01:45] <cbx33> the application itselft
[01:45] <cbx33> whilst having a good application in the education sector
[01:45] <cbx33> is also applicable to the cafe sector
[01:45] <jsgotangco> "as a plugin"
[01:45] <pygi> jsgotangco: right, AS A PLUGIN
[01:46] <pygi> nothing else
[01:46] <frandavid100> well I'll be back later to ask, bye!
[01:46] <cbx33> we shouldn't budge people out of the cafe sector just because we want to call it Student Control Panel
[01:46] <ogra> pygi, and if soemone asks you at this conf "how do i make sure my students are logged out after 15mins so i get their attention back" you can answer "install SCP-cafe" ;)
[01:46] <lucasvo> pygi: yes, but a cafe plugin for a student control panel is not very logical
[01:46] <pygi> lucasvo: whatever you do, dont replicate any existing UI's
[01:46] <lucasvo> pygi: no, I won't
[01:46] <pygi> ogra: o no, you'll be answering questions like that ;)
[01:46] <ogra> haha
[01:46] <cbx33> I've got to dash off for a while guys
[01:47] <cbx33> really sorry
[01:47] <cbx33> want to continue this discussion
[01:47] <lucasvo> cya cbx33 
[01:47] <pygi> cbx33: ok, look pm btw.
[01:47] <cbx33> I propose
[01:47] <jsgotangco> well if you ask my opinion (like its really important)
[01:47] <pygi> ogra: just you laugh ^_^
[01:47] <cbx33> SCP, SCP-education, SCP-cafe
[01:47] <jsgotangco> ah what the heck, forget it
[01:47] <cbx33> that kinda thing
[01:47] <pygi> jsgotangco: shoot pls ;)
[01:47] <lucasvo> cbx33: but scp eduction should be a meta package
[01:47] <jsgotangco> cbx33: why the split?
[01:47] <pygi> jsgotangco: for KDE UI :)
[01:47] <jsgotangco> eekk
[01:47] <lucasvo> yeah.
[01:48] <cbx33> if someone could mail me a log of this convo
[01:48] <cbx33> that would be great
[01:48] <cbx33> bbl
[01:48] <jsgotangco> mail it to yourself?
[01:48] <pygi> ogra: and I've already got some SCP hacks in use at school where I implemented Edubuntu ;)
[01:48] <ogra> pygi, make them available in bzr :)
[01:48] <pygi> perhaps, but they are really in state of flux :)
[01:49] <ogra> feisty will also be in state of flux ;)
[01:49] <pygi> but I still don't think our primary audience is caffe :) 
[01:49] <pygi> lol :)
[01:49] <ogra> no
[01:49] <ogra> not our primary audience
[01:49] <ogra> but SCP should provide such features
[01:49] <pygi> throught plugins :)
[01:50] <ogra> indeed
[01:50] <pygi> saw something about chat idea ... telepathy could be used, or tapioca to be exact
[01:50] <ogra> chat ? 
[01:50] <pygi> that's out of scope tho, most probably
[01:50] <pygi> yup, dunno where I saw it in context of SCP :P
[01:50] <ogra> hmm
[01:50] <ogra> you can send messages already
[01:51] <lucasvo> pygi: let's say it like this: we build an application suitable for every LTSP environment, but we only code the general part and the parts that are needed for educational things.
[01:51] <pygi> ogra: right
[01:51] <ogra> lucasvo, why should we restrict ourselves ? 
[01:51] <cbx33> just watching
[01:51] <lucasvo> pygi: what others do with it, is not our problem. but we don't want to lock them out wiht our design
[01:51] <ogra> if someone wants to write freaky plugins he should just go ahead :)
[01:52] <pygi> ogra: ;p; "_
[01:52] <lucasvo> ogra: we = "edubuntu developers" while working 
[01:52] <lucasvo> not while working for net cafe :)
[01:52] <ogra> lucasvo, yes, but what forbids an edubuntu dev to implement a feature he likes :)
[01:54] <highvoltage> geez, I had so many questions for ogra now I can't remember them :)
[01:54] <pygi> highvoltage: I had questions for you ages ago, and still no answer =)
[01:54] <ogra> highvoltage, can you comment on 67356 ?
[01:55] <highvoltage> pygi: I often forget things over IRC, best is to use my e-mail, I use my inbox as a request tracker :)
[01:56] <highvoltage> ogra: I can comment on the bug report itself just now, but I'll ask you here instead and then we can update
[01:57] <lucasvo> ogra: I mean while he is working *for edubuntu*
[01:57] <ogra> 67360 is really odd, we wont solve it before release ... gcompris needs to detect if vesa is running and disable xrandr in that specific case ...
[01:57] <highvoltage> ogra: I didn't give the second card an IP address, I assumed it would choose one for me
[01:57] <highvoltage> ogra: so I should manually supply an IP address?
[01:57] <ogra> highvoltage, did it get one from your dhcp server ?
[01:57] <highvoltage> ogra: nope
[01:57] <ogra> no, i just want to know which range is used for the internet facing interface
[01:58] <highvoltage> ogra: I plugged out my dhcp server at that stage
[01:58] <ogra> oh
[01:58] <ogra> why ?
[01:58] <highvoltage> because I didn't want it to interfere with the installation
[01:58] <highvoltage> most servers will probably be installed without an existing dhcp server?
[01:58] <ogra> it cant interfere with a two NIC install 
[01:58] <ogra> right, then it should offer you to define IPs manually
[01:58] <highvoltage> it needs to work that way, so I tested it that way.
[01:58] <highvoltage> I can test it again with dhcp server enabled.
[01:59] <ogra> which you should do
[01:59] <ogra> just give it a valid interface that up during install 
[01:59] <highvoltage> ok
[01:59] <ogra> no matter how you do it
[01:59] <ogra> the second one will then be configured 
[02:00] <highvoltage> ok, I will try again
[02:00] <ogra> if you skip the networking in d-i ltsp wont get any interface data
[02:00] <ogra> so that behavior is correct
[02:00] <highvoltage> ah, I see
[02:00] <ogra> (if you skip it in d-i the complete network stack isnt loaded, no route and no ifconfig will work)
[02:01] <highvoltage> aaah, that explains it. with my one test I did skip it. that makes sense now.
[02:01] <ogra> one small design flaw is that it wont work if you use 192.168.0.X in the inet facing network
[02:02] <ogra> thats why i asked for your IP data in the bug
[02:03] <highvoltage> interesting, since I would've probably tested with 192.168.0.254 :)
[02:03] <ogra> highvoltage, i'll be in and out all the day today, if you can catch Keybuk in -devel try to point him to the udev thing please
[02:03] <highvoltage> ogra: will do.
[02:04] <ogra> i was too much of a sissy to rewrite the complete dhcpd.conf in case you use 192.168.0.X :) i think i'll do that in feisty ... and just make it generate a new one
[02:05] <ogra> the problem here is that dhcpd.conf is a conffile, so the ltsp package would complain on upgrades
[02:06] <ogra> highvoltage, i cant reproduce your ldm session bug btw
[02:07] <ogra> well, in case of metacity its a bit odd, MC has no right click menu and nothing ... so it starts up the window manage but you cant do anything ... i'm pondering to drop support for windowmanagers for now and only keep sessions in
[02:07] <highvoltage> ogra: I had trouble rsyncing to the release candidate. is it possible that it might have been fixed since the 17'th? I could easily reproduce it :/
[02:08] <ogra> RC is the iso 17.1 
[02:08] <ogra> so its unlikely it changed
[02:08] <highvoltage> ok
[02:08] <ogra> and there were no daily builds yet
[02:08] <ogra> RFc is the last iso we have
[02:08] <ogra> *RC
[02:09] <jsgotangco> yep
[02:09] <jsgotangco> 17th is our RC
[02:09] <ogra> highvoltage, can you please note on 67356 that you disabled networking completely in d-i ?
[02:10] <ogra> so people looking for that symptom in LP have something :)
[02:12] <highvoltage> ogra: yes, I noted it and closed the bug, I don't think it's really a bug
[02:12] <ogra> thanks :)
[02:13] <highvoltage> that's something we'll have to note in an edubuntu installer guide too
[02:13] <ogra> no, its a feature that it warned you .. the bug is probably that i should explain it more detailed in the message you get 
[02:13] <highvoltage> (which I doubt we'll have ready before release)
[02:13] <highvoltage> ok
[02:13] <ogra> but thats also unlikely to change before release
[02:14] <ogra> in fact anything that requires more than a few lines of change is unlikely to go in
[02:14] <ogra> thats why we wont get the gcompris thing fixed
[02:14] <highvoltage> is that a vesa driver bug?
[02:14] <ogra> it needs to detect vesa and disable xrandr 
[02:14] <highvoltage> ah
[02:14] <ogra> i dont think vesa is supposed to have xrandr support
[02:15] <ogra> rodarvus could probably tell
[02:15] <highvoltage> gcompris used to work fullscreen on vesa displays before
[02:15] <highvoltage> perhaps it dodn't use xrandr before.
[02:15] <ogra> ah, k then it sounds like a vesa bug indeed
[02:15] <ogra> no, it always used xrandr for switching the screen
[02:15] <ogra> s/screen/screen size/
[02:16] <highvoltage> it's not a massive problem for my labs, since we have to run it windowed anyway, otherwise the xfce panels overlap with the fullscreen gcompris.
[02:16] <highvoltage> so I can live with that one :)
[02:16] <highvoltage> we should have a tips and tricks and bug workaround section on the website
[02:17] <highvoltage> most of the issues are very easy to work around.
[02:18] <lucasvo> damn!
[02:18] <lucasvo> my inkscape just crashed after a 1/4h of work unsaved
[02:19] <ogra> highvoltage, well, they simply shouldnt exist :)
[02:19] <ogra> could you note that the gcompris thing is a regression from dapper ?
[02:19] <highvoltage> I think it's actually possible to have 0 edubuntu-specific bugs.
[02:20] <highvoltage> perhaps next release :)
[02:20] <highvoltage> ogra: ok
[02:20] <ogra> well, the problem is that we will develop new features that will introduce new bugs :)
[02:22] <highvoltage> true. I spoke to cbx33 earlier, as soon as feisty opens, we're going to start edubuntu-specifig hug/bug days.
[02:22] <highvoltage> it will also be on wednesdays and be part of ubuntu bug days. then we can report on it conveniently in the wednesday meetings.
[02:22] <highvoltage> so testing and bug hunting/fixing will happen way more frequently.
[02:23] <ogra> please coordinate with sfllaw and dholbach for that 
[02:24] <ogra> even though i like the idea, they are the bugsquad and should be able to veto that if they think its bringing to much fragmentation
[02:24] <highvoltage> ok
[02:24] <highvoltage> we'll do it properly and through the right channels.
[02:24] <ogra> great :)
[02:25] <ogra> mmm, that we have syslogging enabled now really pays off :)
[02:25] <ogra> (in ltsp)
[02:26] <highvoltage> yes, it's very convenient and useful :)
[02:26] <highvoltage> will help a *lot* for troubleshooting.
[02:26] <highvoltage> our helpdesk guys will be very happy with that.
[02:29] <ogra> btw, helpdesk ... 
[02:29] <ogra> ah, no forget it ...
[02:30] <highvoltage> please tell me ogra :)
[02:30] <ogra> i was just thinking about a ticket system plugin that shows you open support tickes in SCP :) but that would require to focus on a single ticketsystem
[02:30] <highvoltage> I see, so that an administrator could keep track of what's happening inside the lab, and of requests of the users?
[02:31] <ogra> right
[02:31] <ogra> its not so much a school feature
[02:31] <ogra> but imagine a big office that runs on ltsp and has a helpdesk 
[02:31] <highvoltage> nope. it would be marginally useful. but schools with part-time administrators would find it useful.
[02:31] <ogra> right
[02:32] <highvoltage> I think that once LTSP moves into the offices, the LTSP feature requests will start to roll again.
[02:32] <jsgotangco> hmm
[02:32] <jsgotangco> instant messaging between users
[02:32] <highvoltage> if all goes well my company will do a big office ltsp rollout next year
[02:32] <jsgotangco> heh
[02:33] <jsgotangco> (not exactly jabber-type)
[02:33] <pygi> jsgotangco: using fama im ;)
[02:33] <pygi> jsgotangco: right? :)
[02:34] <jsgotangco> hmm
[02:34] <pygi> jsgotangco: I doubt you'll find it anywhere :)
[02:37] <jsgotangco> what's that?
[02:37] <pygi> http://www.fama-im.org ^_^
[02:37] <jsgotangco> telepathy?
[02:38] <jsgotangco> Mario ani - Founder & CTO & Core developer
[02:38] <jsgotangco> lol
[02:38] <pygi> ^_^
[02:38] <jsgotangco> ah tapioca powered
[02:38] <jsgotangco> ive used tapioca
[02:39] <pygi> jsgotangco: so what do you have against me? :P
[02:39] <jsgotangco> err nothing?
[02:39] <pygi> the "lol" thingy :)
[02:39] <jsgotangco> well i thought you were promoting something not related to you
[02:39] <pygi> nah =)
[02:41] <pygi> jsgotangco: it's nothing yet tho, so I can't really promote it :)
[02:54] <jsgotangco> heh
[02:54] <jsgotangco> well have a good day all
[02:55] <jsgotangco> im going to retire early
[02:55] <jsgotangco> see ya
[02:55] <pygi> oki, bye :)
[03:30] <juliux> ogra, should i open a bug report for the problem with the isa nics?
[03:33] <highvoltage> and your pc's have no pci slots?
[03:36] <juliux> it is a surfstation with an cyrix cpu and it has only isa slots
[03:50] <juliux> re
[03:57] <juliux> ogra, did you test the rangee thinclients with edgy?
[06:26] <cbx33> hey all
[06:26] <cbx33> how is everyone?
[06:27] <pygi> very bad
[06:28] <cbx33> y?
[06:28] <pygi> doesn't matter, but very very very very bad
[06:30] <P3L|C4N0> 69 -+/+
[06:34] <highvoltage> pygi: :(
[06:36] <juliux> :( my thinclients are not working with edgy
[08:29] <achandra> hi guys...okay....I had installed edubuntu with dhcp/tftp/pxe and all looks to be good...however, when creating the etherboot part, I used the rom-o-matic tool and created a simple ISO for an e100 card popped it in and it keeps complaining about a no I386 bios found error...any ideas..?
[08:30] <achandra> It also says boot from net or quit...but booting from net just returns to the same screen over and over 
[08:30] <achandra> can someone help out??
[08:31] <stelis> I can try
[08:32] <achandra> stelis: im not sure if it is the "driver" or the fact i am testing on a P4 with HT as the client..(just to test) its a sony vaio RB
[08:32] <achandra> stelis: it uses a "version of the e100" that is EB/EZ/ "
[08:33] <achandra> I popped in the iso but no go...
[08:33] <achandra> not sure what im doing wrong 
[08:33] <stelis> The default version of Edubuntu prefers two NICs
[08:34] <stelis> 1 for main use and 1 to be dedicated for thin client
[08:34] <stelis> What happens when you install
[08:35] <achandra> okay... as I just had turned off my "main dhcp server" on the other box a that acts as my firewall...and just made to sure that the edubuntu  one was up... 
[08:35] <achandra> so it is a one nic setup on the edubuntu 
[08:35] <stelis> OK
[08:36] <achandra> so the lan looks like this -    DSL----FW------Edubuntu(dhcp)------LAN(workstations)-----thinclient(for testing) 
[08:37] <achandra> so in effect all I am doing is trying to "pull" an unused address from the dhcp server on the edubuntu server and PXE off it....but the client totally bitches at me by saying i386 boot rom not found...bott from (N)etwork or (Q)uit 
[08:38] <achandra> that typing N does nothing but return to the same prompt over and over again. 
[08:38] <achandra> incompatible driver??
[08:39] <achandra> the actual card itself is (0x8086)(0x1064) which is NOT on the list...there are variants but not the list for rom-o-matic 
[08:39] <stelis> OK, so the client will be the Sony?
[08:39] <achandra> yes
[08:39] <stelis> What OS does it normally run?
[08:40] <achandra> ubuntu...of course...lol...dapper
[08:40] <achandra>  2.6.15-27-386
[08:40] <stelis> OK, that means that there are least some Linux drivers :)
[08:40] <achandra> right 
[08:40] <achandra> in fact im using it now ;) 
[08:41] <achandra> i figured okay..i know this work with ubuntu lets give a shot by making it a thin client... 
[08:41] <stelis> Next silly question: Did you set the machine to boot from the network in the BIOS? 
[08:41] <achandra> the bios doesnt have that feature...on the box 
[08:41] <stelis> I hate Sony
[08:42] <achandra> lol 
[08:42] <achandra> it was cheap at fry's 
[08:42] <achandra> $350 bones for the "floor" model 
[08:42] <stelis> :)
[08:42] <achandra> except there were no pretty chicks that came along with it...
[08:42] <stelis> I see the attraction
[08:42] <achandra> :) 
[08:43] <stelis> Basically, anything made in the last 4 years should support PXE
[08:43] <achandra> right 
[08:43] <achandra> the problem is the school ill be working with has pretty old stuff too. 
[08:43] <achandra> hence etherboot 
[08:43] <stelis> Although it's often just labelled "LAN" or "Network" in the BIOS
[08:43] <achandra> right....
[08:44] <achandra> there is an enable "ROM" for network but i cant really seem to find the right F key to boot from network... 
[08:44] <stelis> In all seriousness, about 5 years we bought boxes of NICs and replaced every card on the network with an PXE complient one
[08:45] <achandra> I see 
[08:45] <stelis> We figured it was well worth the expense
[08:45] <achandra> okay 
[08:46] <achandra> so when you popped em in, and say used etherboot for a "well known" card...it just automagically worked...with little or no prompting??
[08:46] <stelis> It meant that we didn't need anything
[08:47] <achandra> ohh...so the pxe capable cards....didnt require you to even need etherboot???
[08:47] <stelis> A standard NIC supports PXE
[08:47] <stelis> Yes :)
[08:47] <achandra> how does that work??? 
[08:47] <achandra> ie doesnt bios need to know about it??
[08:47] <achandra> or???
[08:47] <stelis> Just set "Network" in the BIOS as the default boot option, and start the machine?
[08:47] <achandra> ahh....
[08:47] <achandra> okay 
[08:48] <achandra> right...assuning that option exists...lol 
[08:48] <stelis> That's really all there is to it.
[08:48] <stelis> Yeah :(
[08:48] <achandra> otherwise....plug an pray 
[08:48] <achandra> ;) 
[08:48] <stelis> :)
[08:49] <achandra> okay...I think it is very likely that the deal is that the driver version is just plain off... 
[08:49] <achandra> ill pop in a known nic like realtek or something and try again... 
[08:49] <achandra> any recommendations??
[08:49] <achandra> for the NIC 
[08:49] <achandra> ??
[08:50] <stelis> Intel :)
[08:50] <stelis> The E100 *should* just work
[08:50] <achandra> lol 
[08:50] <achandra> right...
[08:50] <achandra> but i have the "special" sony one...damn 
[08:51] <stelis> I suspect that the NIC chip would support PXE 
[08:51] <achandra> okay...will check it out...thnx for your help... 
[08:51] <stelis> But Sony may not have implemented support for it in their BIOS
[09:36] <frandavid100> hi guys
[09:37] <stelis> Hi there
[09:38] <stelis> Funny issue here
[09:38] <stelis> Do you have the Edgy version of Edubuntu?
[09:46] <frandavid100> any student control panel devs around?
[09:46] <lucasvo> frandavid100: you want to discuss something?
[09:47] <frandavid100> hi lucasvo, yeah I was here this morning discussing SCP's possible use in internet cafes
[09:48] <lucasvo> frandavid100: we currently want to start with classrooms
[09:48] <lucasvo> what I suggest to do:
[09:48] <lucasvo> split the spec up into three parts:
[09:48] <lucasvo> * Core SCP
[09:48] <lucasvo> * Edu SCP
[09:48] <lucasvo> * Net Cafe SCP
[09:48] <lucasvo> frandavid100: but if you don't find a developer, #3 won't get implemented
[09:49] <frandavid100> cbx33 seemed relatively interested this morning
[09:49] <lucasvo> frandavid100: yes
[09:49] <lucasvo> could be
[09:50] <frandavid100> people even talked about changing the name to make it more generic
[09:50] <lucasvo> well anyway, if you would like to push it a little, I suggest, you create a spec about the spc usage for net cafes
[09:50] <stelis> FWIW, I know about .edu rather than cafes but there may be an overlap
[09:50] <stelis> We run day courses
[09:51] <stelis> As in one day events
[09:51] <frandavid100> I'll do that lucasvo, thanks for the suggestion
[09:51] <stelis> And schools also rent out
[09:51] <frandavid100> gotta leave, good night!
[09:52] <lucasvo> stelis: well, things that overlap, would go into either one of the spec and would be referenced
[09:53] <lucasvo> stelis: write down your ideas beneath this spec, if you want to help us:
[09:53] <lucasvo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StudentControlPanelSpec
[09:53] <stelis> Thanks - will do
[09:53] <lucasvo> stelis: thanks for contributing!
[09:54] <stelis> Thank *you*
[09:54] <stelis> Edubuntu Edgy is already amazing
[09:56] <lucasvo> yeah it really is
[09:57] <stelis> One thing I was wondering was about updating the chroots
[09:57] <stelis> Currently I've been updating the main system the normal way
[09:58] <lucasvo> stelis: easiest is sudo rm -rf /opt/ltsp/i386 ; sudo ltsp-build-client
[09:58] <stelis> It is easier to just remake them each time then?
[09:59] <stelis> I've currently been using aptitude inside the chroot
[09:59] <stelis> Which is the documented way
[11:03] <nathan_> Q. how can i set a HD which has a previous installation and upgraded programs to be a repository, so that a new HD wiht a fresh install and NOT-upgraded programs can see what teh changes are and upgrade them using the old HD info?
[11:03] <nathan_> [sorry for typos] 
[11:06] <BonBonTheJon> nathan_: I am trying to look up and answer for you
[11:06] <stelis> By changes do you just mean new packages?
[11:07] <stelis> You can dump packages directly into /var/cache/apt/archives and they will be used rather than downloaded agian
[11:07] <stelis> again
[11:07] <nathan_> stelis:  ok.... how do i do that?
[11:07] <BonBonTheJon> stelis: does that work, I was thinking something with apt-cache
[11:08] <nathan_> do you two need more info?
[11:08] <stelis> I think it does
[11:08] <stelis> nathan_: I'm just a slow typer
[11:09] <stelis> I think if you just copy *.deb from /var/cache/apt/archives from the updated system to the new system 
[11:10] <nathan_> Q. (:D im full of them today) I'm using x-chat gnome. When someone's name appears in yellow does that mean they are private messaging me?
[11:10] <stelis> The archives/ directory has a subdirectory called partial that you don't want 
[11:11] <BonBonTheJon> chovynz: oh, its you again!
[11:11] <stelis> Not sure - I use Gaim
[11:11] <chovynz> hi BonBonTheJon
[11:11] <chovynz> O.o you can use Gaim for irc?
[11:11] <stelis> Yes
[11:12] <stelis> And Jabber/Google Talk
[11:12] <stelis> It does all the IM protocols
[11:12] <BonBonTheJon> stelis: I was thinking of apt-proxy, not apt-cache
[11:12] <chovynz> lol. ok thnx for info. I DL x-chat just so i could talk here :D
[11:13] <stelis> BonBonTheJon: OK. I'm fairly new to APT 
[11:13] <stelis> Don't know all the tools yet
[11:13] <BonBonTheJon> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AptProxy
[11:14] <BonBonTheJon> apt-proxy is like a little repository, I think
[11:14] <BonBonTheJon> the client gets packages from apt-proxy
[11:14] <chovynz> I dont really want to find all the apps that have been upgraded....I'd like linux to do that for me while i go eat lunch :D
[11:14] <BonBonTheJon> I've never used it, but it sounds like it would work
[11:14] <stelis> That looks really useful
[11:15] <stelis> The problem with Edubuntu is you have run updates twice
[11:15] <BonBonTheJon> stelis: not with this, it sounds like
[11:15] <stelis> Once for the main system , and once for the thin client
[11:15] <stelis> Yup
[11:15] <stelis> I'll have to play with this
[11:16] <chovynz> BonBonTheJon:  are you using x-chat or other?
[11:16] <BonBonTheJon> chovynz: I am using Konversation
[11:16] <BonBonTheJon> I use KDE, I've never tried Edubuntu before
[11:16] <stelis> chovynz: just dump all the .deb files into the cache
[11:17] <stelis> APT should work it out
[11:17] <chovynz> stelis:  how do i do that? (im a linux newbie)
[11:17] <stelis> Have you got a pen drive?
[11:18] <BonBonTheJon> chovynz: are these computers on the same network
[11:19] <chovynz> BonBonTheJon: the HD are in the same computer
[11:19] <BonBonTheJon> chovynz: even better, mount the other HD and copy them over
[11:20] <chovynz> um....ill explain my situation as it is now not as it was yesterday :)
[11:20] <BonBonTheJon> ok
[11:20] <chovynz> my 80g is now running EDU. it is the master. It has a fresh install of EDU onto it and "old" programs
[11:21] <chovynz> 8g is the slave and runs EDU when i boot from it. It has the "upgraded" apps that i want on my new HD
[11:22] <BonBonTheJon> chovynz: mount the 8GB and copy the .deb files
[11:22] <chovynz> ...without having to DL them all again
[11:22] <chovynz> ok. 8g is mounted. how do i copy?
[11:22] <BonBonTheJon> chovynz: open the file manager as root
[11:23] <BonBonTheJon> chovynz: where did you mount the 8GB
[11:23] <chovynz> /mnt/hdb1
[11:25] <chovynz> BonBonTheJon: I have DL apt-proxy
[11:26] <BonBonTheJon> well, either go thru the tutorial I linked to for apt-proxy, or just copy all the .deb files from  /var/cache/apt/archives to /mnt/hdb1/var/cache/apt/archives
[11:27] <chovynz> BonBonTheJon: otherway around for the manual way? my 80g master is where i want all the upgraded apps to go...
[11:28] <BonBonTheJon> chovynz: yeah, the files from 8GB on /mnt/hdb1/var/cache/apt/archives to 80GB on  /var/cache/apt/archives
[11:32] <chovynz> then what....do something in the synaptic package manager? how do i set that /var/cache/apt/archives as a repository
[11:33] <BonBonTheJon> chovynz: refresh synaptic and hopefully it will see the updated files
[11:35] <stelis> chovynz: Every package that you download goes into that directory before it gets used 
[11:35] <stelis> Like a browser cache
[11:35] <stelis> If APT decides it needs a packages thats already in the cache it won't download it again
[11:36] <stelis> So if you install a package, remove it and then reinstall
[11:36] <stelis> It can also reuse the orginal package
[11:36] <chovynz> o.O
[11:37] <chovynz> does that mean i need to remember all the pacakges i've upgraded?
[11:37] <chovynz> *typo
[11:37] <BonBonTheJon> chovynz: It means you DONT need to remember them, the computer will do it all for you
[11:37] <stelis> I'm confused...
[11:37] <BonBonTheJon> chovynz: try it and see
[11:38] <chovynz> If I have overwritten the local cache with the old upgraded cache, then there wont be a record of teh OTHER packages i've downloaded, which are separate from the old upgraded ones....correct?
[11:39] <BonBonTheJon> chovynz: it will look at the version numbers
[11:39] <chovynz> AND the upgrade manager will incorrectly tell me that my progs are upgraded when they aren't. correct?
[11:40] <stelis> APT just tracks the versions of the packages that are installed
[11:40] <stelis> Plus those available from the network
[11:40] <BonBonTheJon> chovynz: no, there is a list of installed software, and there is a directory of packages
[11:40] <stelis> The cache is just holding pen
[11:41] <BonBonTheJon> chovynz: it will look at your packages, compare it to the list of installed software, see you have a newer version, and install it
[11:43] <chovynz> stelis & BonBonTheJon:  um ok....well i dont really know what to do now. I have copied the upgraded cache to my cache dir. How do i get those packages to be installed? When i went to SPM it told my that my app versions are the upgraded version, but i know thats not right cause i haven't installed anything yet.
[11:44] <stelis> Run sudo aptitude update
[11:44] <BonBonTheJon> chovynz: did you reload/refresh the sources
[11:45] <chovynz> done that now
[11:45] <chovynz> are you telling me its done?
[11:46] <chovynz> or is there something else im missing?
[11:46] <stelis> First you update/refresh the sources
[11:46] <chovynz> updates. done
[11:46] <stelis> Then upgrade
[11:47] <chovynz> stelis: how do I upgrade?
[11:47] <chovynz> it tells me my installed versions are the updated ones....but i know that cant be yet
[11:47] <stelis> Either SPM, or at the command-line: sudo aptitude dist-upgrade
[11:48] <chovynz> E: Could not get lock /var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (11 Resource temporarily unavail able)
[11:48] <chovynz> E: Unable to lock the administration directory (/var/lib/dpkg/), is another proc ess using it?
[11:48] <stelis> You need the "sudo" bit
[11:48] <chovynz> did that
[11:48] <lucasvo> chovynz: is aptitude still running?
[11:49] <chovynz> not sure....synaptic was...i've just closed that
[11:50] <chovynz> ok it allowed me now. but it said 0 packages neede to be upgraded
[11:50] <chovynz> I have over 100megs of upgraded packages.....it can't be done already....
[11:50] <chovynz> can it?
[11:51] <stelis> No
[11:51] <chovynz> so.......im.....lost :D
[11:52] <stelis> OK - this is easier to see and follow on the command-line
[11:52] <chovynz> aiighty...ill follow command line
[11:52] <stelis> The first command is "sudo aptitude update" 
[11:52] <chovynz> done
[11:53] <stelis> This downloads lists of the packages available from network repositories
[11:53] <stelis> Then "sudo aptitude dist-upgrade"
[11:53] <chovynz> done
[11:53] <stelis> This checks the installed system against the list of repository packages
[11:54] <chovynz> "Need to get 0B of archives. After unpacking 0B will be used."
[11:54] <stelis> OK - it thinks that your installed system is current
[11:54] <stelis> So it doen't nned to do anything
[11:54] <chovynz> I know. Which i also know is incorrect.
[11:55] <chovynz> :\
[11:55] <chovynz> unless......
[11:55] <stelis> Have you edited the software sources?
[11:55] <chovynz> during installation would it have DL the newest version anyway?
[11:55] <chovynz> from the Internet? 
[11:57] <chovynz> yes i did try to edit the software sources "sources.list?"  But i didnt delete anything...i only added /mnt/hdb1 as a line. SPM threw a spasm so i deleted that line.
[11:57] <stelis> The default installation doesn't upgrade the packages.
[11:57] <chovynz> stelis: ok. that what i thought. Thnx for confirming
[11:58] <stelis> sources.list is the list of repositories to get downloads from
[11:58] <stelis> I wonder if it's broken
[11:58] <chovynz> ok well thats the only file i've tampered with (knowingly)
[11:58] <chovynz> and the only thing i put in i took out. so it should be ok now
[11:59] <LaserJock> the easiest thing is to pastebin your sources.list file so people can see
[11:59] <BonBonTheJon> !pastebin
[11:59] <ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (you can always find it in the channel topic, among other useful things)
[11:59] <chovynz> ok.
[11:59] <chovynz> so i cat sources.list then pastebin?
[11:59] <BonBonTheJon> chovynz: that will work
[12:01] <chovynz> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27887/
[12:02] <stelis> That's the problem
[12:02] <chovynz> (im thinking I need to be on here 24/7 till i get the hang of linux :D)
[12:03] <BonBonTheJon> chovynz: I see why you were on-line when it was 2 am. here, you are in New Zealand
[12:03] <stelis> There's a lot of docs
[12:03] <chovynz> true BonBonTheJon
[12:03] <stelis> But the problem is definitely that file
[12:03] <chovynz> stelis: how do you mean?
[12:03] <stelis> See the # ?
[12:04] <chovynz> yes?
[12:04] <stelis> At the beginning of lines
[12:04] <chovynz> those are comments. they dont affect the 
[12:04] <stelis> Something has commented out the network repositories
[12:04] <chovynz> those comments are set by SPM when you turn it on or off
[12:05] <stelis> He's got no active repositories are part from deb-src
[12:05] <stelis> For source code
[12:05] <BonBonTheJon> stelis: how about this sources.list http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27889/
[12:06] <BonBonTheJon> stelis: at seems like it would be a better list
[12:06] <stelis> The original had universe enabled
[12:06] <chovynz> strange. my sources list is what was default. is it not very good?
[12:07] <stelis> It was until SPM edited it :)
[12:07] <stelis> SPM disabled all the main network repositories
[12:07] <chovynz> hmmm...that might've been me too :) i unchecked everything so i could try my HD mount as a repository
[12:08] <stelis> PBKAC
[12:08] <stelis> Problem Between Keyboard and Chair :)
[12:08] <BonBonTheJon> stelis: my pastebin had universe enabled
[12:08] <chovynz> so...c&p BonBonTheJon's sources list into my sources.list?
[12:08] <chovynz> stelis: lol...yeah im that often
[12:08] <BonBonTheJon> chovynz: make a backup of the sources.list
[12:09] <BonBonTheJon> chovynz: save it as something like sources.list.102206 or something
[12:09] <chovynz> done
[12:10] <BonBonTheJon> chovynz: did you copy and paste my sources.list
[12:10] <chovynz> doing so
[12:11] <BonBonTheJon> chovynz: ok, then opne synaptic and reload/refresh
[12:11] <chovynz> E: Type '01.' is not known on line 1 in source list /etc/apt/sources.list
[12:12] <BonBonTheJon> chovynz: lol, oops, instead of copying from the top on the webpage, copy from the bottom
[12:12] <chovynz> heh
[12:13] <chovynz> did that read some html there?
[12:13] <chovynz> LOL it copied the line numbers
[12:13] <BonBonTheJon> chovynz: pastebin automatically numbers the line
[12:13] <BonBonTheJon> s
[12:15] <chovynz> ok done