[12:57] <Nafallo> ajmitch: tried running lintian on the binarys from xen-source? :-P
[01:39] <Fujitsu> If stuff is removed from testing because of long-standing unmet-deps, we should do the same, right?
[01:41] <Nafallo> Fujitsu: don't touch gajim! :-)
[01:42] <Fujitsu> I was more thinking along the lines of malsync.
[01:42] <Nafallo> shouldn't be to bad to do some spring cleaning indeed...
[01:42] <Nafallo> ehrm...
[01:42] <Nafallo> fall :-)
[01:44] <Fujitsu> It's spring here :P
[01:44] <Nafallo> :-)
[01:45] <pirast> night
[02:30] <Nafallo> lol
[02:30] <Nafallo> spambot joined and died :-)
[02:51] <ajmitch> Nafallo: no I haven't, but that's not my package to touch ;)
[02:52] <Nafallo> ajmitch: they errored out on me so I couldn't upload them to my repo without adding run_lintian = 0 in .dput.cf :-)
[02:53] <ajmitch> oh well :)
[02:55] <Nafallo> I won't rebuild them until after I got my server converted either ;-)
[02:55] <Fujitsu> ajmitch, I have to poke the UVF team for syncs too?
[02:56] <Nafallo> http://www.acc.umu.se/technical/hosts/linuxserver.html
[02:56] <Nafallo> something tells me they can push good for the release ;-)
[03:02] <Nafallo> XenOnEdgy is the correct wiki for getting XEN up? :-)
[03:03] <imbrandon> Nafallo, should be
[03:03] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: yes
[03:03] <ajmitch> Nafallo: yes
[03:03] <imbrandon> heya guys
[03:04] <ajmitch> Nafallo: it'll be interesting to see if you get lockups on amd64
[03:04] <ajmitch> hi imbrandon
[03:04] <Fujitsu> ajmitch, bug 67478 is fixing unmet deps.
[03:04] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 67478 in gtamsanalyzer.app "Please sync gtamsanalyzer.app 0.42-3 (universe) from Debian Sid (main)" [Low,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/67478
[03:05] <Nafallo> ajmitch: oh?
[03:05] <imbrandon> anyone else watching the world series ? ( /me doubts it )
[03:05] <Nafallo> ajmitch: bug reports about that or?
[03:05] <ajmitch> Nafallo: apparantly there's some oddness going on in the mm code
[03:06] <ajmitch> yes, tfheen has tracked it down that far
[03:06] <Nafallo> hm, will see then :-)
[03:06] <ajmitch> imbrandon: world series of what? ;)
[03:06] <Nafallo> anyway, will be offline in bed :-)
[03:06] <Nafallo> so gnight :-)
[03:06] <imbrandon> baseball ;)
[03:07] <ajmitch> imbrandon: let me guess - 'world series' comprising of only US teams?
[03:07] <imbrandon> hahah this time ( but at times there is JP teams )
[03:08] <ajmitch> figures
[03:08] <imbrandon> not many other places play baseball pro except US and JP but its not limited
[03:08] <Fujitsu> ajmitch, you're the god here... Do packages removed from testing due to unmet deps want removal from Ubuntu as well?
[03:09] <ajmitch> no
[03:09] <ajmitch> removed from unstable - maybe
[03:09] <ajmitch> but certainly not removal from testing
[03:10] <Fujitsu> OK, so just leave them broken?
[03:10] <imbrandon> no fix em , heheh
[03:10] <ajmitch> I didn't say that
[03:10] <imbrandon> ( if possible )
[03:11] <Fujitsu> Well, unless I can manually fix them, leave them broken.
[03:11] <Fujitsu> That's more what I meant.
[03:11] <ajmitch> what package do you want to remove?
[03:11] <zul> its freaking cold
[03:12] <Fujitsu> yank and libcharles0 have both been removed from unstable.
[03:12] <zul> hey btw
[03:12] <Fujitsu> And a couple of others.
[03:12] <imbrandon> heya zul, yea its freezing here too, i just turned on the heater for the year
[03:12] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: right - you asked about removal from testing
[03:12] <ajmitch> hello zul
[03:12] <Fujitsu> I did.
[03:12] <zul> hey ajmitch and imbrandon
[03:12] <Fujitsu> (there were others that have been removed from testing, but you just said they shouldn't be removed, so I didn't mention them)
[03:38] <pianoboy3333> When you compile a deb, in the rules in DEB_CONFIGURE_EXTRA_FLAGS += do you need to add --prefix=/usr if you want it installed to /usr?
[03:41] <minghua> such patience
[03:49] <lophyte> !seen superm1
[03:49] <ubotu> I last saw superm1 (n=superm1@ubuntu/member/superm1) 1d 3h 31m 33s ago, quiting: "Quitting, send all complaints > /dev/null"
[03:52] <lophyte> Fujitsu: you had a question last night about a pic programmer I think?
[03:52] <Fujitsu> lophyte, I did, yes. Just wondering if there was any software that worked with that programmer.
[03:53] <Fujitsu> (Linux software, that is)
[03:53] <lophyte> picprog apparently works with it
[03:53] <lophyte> I haven't built it or tested it yet.. but in theory.. it should work
[03:53] <lophyte> picprog says that it is compatible with the JDM programmer.. and the multipic programmer is based on the JDM
[03:53] <Fujitsu> OK.
[03:54] <Fujitsu> I haven't used a home-built programmer before.
[03:54] <lophyte> yup..search on google for picprog, as far as I know there's no debian/ubuntu packages for it
[03:54] <lophyte> I've never done any PIC programming before at all.. this'll be a new experience for me :)
[03:55] <lophyte> anyway.. bbl
[04:01] <LaserJock> imbrandon: it's the world series tonight?
[04:02] <minghua> LaserJock: yes
[04:02] <minghua> (which reminds me I should go watch TV)
[04:03] <imbrandon> LaserJock, yup
[04:04] <imbrandon> 7th innning of game one on right now
[04:04] <imbrandon> ( on Fox )
[04:04] <LaserJock> I didn't realize it was so soon
[04:04] <LaserJock> who's playing
[04:04] <imbrandon> cardnals are kickin
[04:04] <imbrandon> cardnals and detroit
[04:04] <imbrandon> in detroiut tonight but tis 7 to 1
[04:04] <imbrandon> at the top of the 7th
[04:05] <LaserJock> hmm, that's pretty good for being away from home
[04:05] <imbrandon> heh
[04:06] <imbrandon> LaserJock, yea, and stl is about as close to a home team as i'll get ( seeing as the royals will never make the world sereis heh )
[04:06] <LaserJock> StevenK: well I don't get a lot of sports like cricket and soccer :-)
[04:06] <theCore> Is there a reason why pbuilder don't want to log my built. I used
[04:06] <theCore>  sudo pbuilder build jfsutils_1.1.11-1.dsc --logfile build.log
[04:06] <theCore>  but I get no log, at the end
[04:07] <LaserJock> theCore: play with the order
[04:07] <imbrandon> pbuilder build --logfile blah.txt file.dsc
[04:07] <theCore> LaserJock, I did
[04:07] <theCore> imbrandon, oh, I didn't try that one
[04:08] <imbrandon> pbuilder [action]  [options]  files.dsc
[04:08] <imbrandon> ;)
[04:08] <theCore> imbrandon, thanks, it works now
[04:09] <imbrandon> np
[04:09] <minghua> hey, soccer is so much easier to understand than baseball
[04:09] <LaserJock> not for me :/
[04:09] <imbrandon> hahah no way, i have no clue about the soccer rules
[04:10] <minghua> well you need no rules
[04:10] <imbrandon> baseball is simple, hit the ball run the bases ;)
[04:10] <minghua> if the ball is in the net, you score
[04:10] <zul> hah...8-1
[04:10] <minghua> baseball is so much more complicated
[04:10] <LaserJock> if the runner makes it to home, you score
[04:10] <theCore> I have no clue about baseball rules
[04:10] <theCore> but about hockey however ...
[04:11] <zul> hockey rocks..
[04:11] <minghua> LaserJock, imbrandon: ... unless the third out is a force out, or a caught fly ball, etc, etc.
[04:11] <imbrandon> minghua, wth are you talking about hehe
[04:13] <imbrandon> zul, whats 8-1 ?
[04:13] <zul> imbrandon: ottawa/new jersey final score...the good guys won
[04:13] <imbrandon> ahh
[04:14] <nixternal> hockey ftw!
[04:14] <theCore> go habs, go!
[04:14] <imbrandon> you mean jersey right ? ( damn canidians )
[04:14] <imbrandon> lol
[04:14] <nixternal> haha
[04:14] <nixternal> hawks baby!
[04:14] <zul> imbrandon: we are going to have to duke it out
[04:14] <nixternal> we haven't had a winning team since gordy howe
[04:15] <imbrandon> zul, hahaha yea
[04:17] <LaserJock> hehe, hockey is almost as bad a soccer ;-)
[04:18] <nixternal> watch it now
[04:18] <LaserJock> at least it's got a little more action
[04:18] <nixternal> hockey is better than football...at least you don't have no sissy rules to save the star of the team pain
[04:18] <nixternal> pretty soon the NFL will be a 2-hand touch or a flag league
[04:21] <LaserJock> college football rules
[04:21] <nixternal> unnecessary like roughness on the laserdude
[04:22] <nixternal> the other team?  there is the home team and the visiting team
[04:22] <nixternal> LASERJOCK!!! THOSE ARE THE CHEERLEADERS...YOU STOP THAT RIGHT NOW!!!
[04:23] <theCore> rofl!
[04:29] <theCore> LaserJock, can I ask you something?
[04:29] <LaserJock> sure
[04:30] <theCore> would you like to support my candidature for Ubuntu membership
[04:30] <theCore> I going to apply next CC meeting
[04:31] <LaserJock> ah sure
[04:31] <LaserJock> what time is it?
[04:31] <theCore> it not sets yet
[04:32] <theCore> I think it will be at the UDS
[04:32] <LaserJock> hmm
[04:32] <LaserJock> well if for some reason I don't make it I'll send an email to the CC
[04:32] <theCore> but I'm not sure yet
[04:32] <theCore> thanks
[04:33] <theCore> LaserJock, I got my wiki page filled in, if you want more info about me:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlexandreVassalotti
[04:34] <theCore> I hope my karma score will help
[04:35] <theCore> I classed #5 in the top contributors list
[04:35] <theCore> but I doubt it will be enough
[04:37] <ajmitch> support requests? :)
[04:37] <theCore> ajmitch, yep
[04:38] <ajmitch> yeah, *massively* over-inflated karma for those
[04:38] <theCore> ajmitch, yeah, massive is the word
[04:38] <theCore> ajmitch, that why I say I doubt it will be enough
[04:39] <LaserJock> but you have been doing some work around Ubuntu for some time now
[04:40] <theCore> yeah, true
[04:40] <theCore> maybe I'm worrying a bit too much
[04:41] <theCore> but, it would be nice to have a fan club at the CC meeting :)
[04:42] <theCore> anyway, the only reason why I want the membership is to become a MOTU, and a docteam member
[04:44] <LaserJock> heh, so the "move to Jabber" thread seems pretty active
[04:44] <LaserJock> I kinda feel sorry for the guy
[04:50] <minghua> I don't feel sorry for him
[04:50] <minghua> such discussion shouldn't be on -devel in the first place
[04:51] <LaserJock> I suppose
[04:51] <LaserJock> I think it's a nifty idea
[04:51] <Fujitsu> It is, yes, but it's probably not practical at the moment.
[04:51] <LaserJock> but perhaps not as he was thinking
[04:51] <Fujitsu> Although it would solve the OFTC debate :P
[04:51] <theCore> Seveas has always the last word :)
[04:51] <LaserJock> mhm
[04:51] <Fujitsu> Seveas is Mr. Community!
[04:52] <LaserJock> the TB has the last word :-)
[04:52] <LaserJock> and perhaps Mark sometimes
[04:52] <Fujitsu> That's more a CC matter.
[04:52] <LaserJock> yes, probably
[04:52] <Fujitsu> Only a bit TB-related.
[04:53] <LaserJock> I didn't think they addressed the issue of having to register your nick before pm'ing
[04:53] <LaserJock> I think that's a legitimate problem
[04:53] <Fujitsu> It
[04:53] <Fujitsu> *It's not much of a problem, but it is a legitimate one.
[04:54] <LaserJock> I've had users give up and leave because of it
[04:54] <nixternal> Neither with e.g. x-chat, please stop spreading lies.
[04:54] <nixternal> gahahahah
[04:54] <LaserJock> I thought that was a bit rude, but whatever
[04:54] <Fujitsu> I saw a lot in my couple of months of helping in #ubuntu for several hours a day.
[04:54] <nixternal> he will flat out tell you...thats what makes him rock, now if we could only get ubotu to @lart him then it would be smooth sailing
[04:55] <Fujitsu> @lart nixternal
[04:55] <nixternal> muhaha
[04:55] <Fujitsu> Darn, only works in -offtopic.
[04:55] <nixternal> yup
[04:55] <Fujitsu> I saw a good one this morning...
[04:56] <Fujitsu>  *       Ubugtu thwacks Abst with a BIG POINTY HOBBSEE OF DOOM
[04:57] <StevenK> Bwhaha
[04:58] <ajmitch> heh
[04:58] <theCore> sometime -offtopic is a bit too chaotic
[04:58] <nixternal> i think that is a @lart 22 or a 23
[05:02] <minghua> why is that Ubugtu instead of ubotu?
[05:02] <Fujitsu> ubotu is just a factoid bot.
[05:02] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about is just a factoid bot. - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[05:02] <Fujitsu> Ubugtu is the everything-else bot.
[05:03] <Fujitsu> !bad bot
[05:03] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about bad bot - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[05:03] <minghua> hehe
[05:03] <minghua> never argue with a bot :-)
[05:03] <Fujitsu> cafuego's ubotu had that factoid.
[05:05] <imbrandon> well the problem with jabber is no opereators, think of the spam etc
[05:06] <nixternal> and you still have register before you can message somebody with jabber as well...i didn't see anyone pick up on that
[05:06] <nixternal> he made it seem like /nickserv register and what not was a big deal
[05:06] <imbrandon> and you can do it via the gui in most clients too, i havent typed that in ages ( even irssi )
[05:07] <imbrandon> well the cards took game 1 easily LaserJock
[05:07] <LaserJock> seems like it
[05:07] <LaserJock> I caught the end on Yahoo
[05:07] <minghua> actually, my first thought seeing that mail is "what about users who usually only have an IRC client open, but not IM client open, like me?"
[05:07] <imbrandon> ahh ;)
[05:07] <nixternal> i was expecting that, since the cards were marked with not having a chance to win it
[05:08] <nixternal> that is why bitlbee rocks, i have everything you can chat with all in one winder
[05:08] <imbrandon> yea i love my bitlbee
[05:09] <nixternal> i loved my bip and mirror server too, but it went up in a blaze of glory
[05:09] <imbrandon> nixternal, oh snap you needed me to setup you a bip account, i forgot
[05:09] <imbrandon> still want it ?
[05:09] <nixternal> no i didn't
[05:09] <nixternal> i was messin' with you
[05:09] <imbrandon> oh lol
[05:09] <nixternal> im going to try and rebuild this server
[05:09] <imbrandon> ok
[05:09] <nixternal> hehe
[05:09] <nixternal> man..i had the ultimate bip.conf file
[05:10] <imbrandon> yea i have bip.conf down to a science now
[05:10] <nixternal> had all the ssl in place, it was rocking
[05:10] <LaserJock> you still have to register you're nick via CLI, right?
[05:10] <Fujitsu> LaserJock, in XChat?
[05:10] <nixternal> i had auto blresets on the newest line, was working on a log parser
[05:10] <LaserJock> in all clients?
[05:10] <nixternal> yup
[05:10] <imbrandon> LaserJock, reg it probably, as its diffent on every irc network ( nickserv isnt part of the IRC RFC )
[05:10] <nixternal> well you don't have to
[05:11] <Fujitsu> LaserJock, I don't know of any with a GUI for it.
[05:11] <nixternal> but some people odn't allow unregs to msg them
[05:11] <imbrandon> nixternal, all of freenode dosent be default
[05:11] <imbrandon> s/beby
[05:11] <imbrandon> s/be/by
[05:11] <nixternal> haha
[05:11] <imbrandon> lol
[05:11] <nixternal> having a baby?
[05:11] <nixternal> that is what i seen in your respells
[05:12] <nixternal> im like wth does that have to do with a baby
[05:12] <nixternal> [22:11:13]  --> jbrouhard has joined this channel (n=jbrouhar@cm-207-192-193-222.stjoseph.mo.npgco.com).
[05:12] <nixternal> i hate you imbrandon ;)
[05:12] <imbrandon> i just need a computer interface with my brain so i dont have to type
[05:12] <nixternal> lord, i could only imagine those conversations
[05:13] <imbrandon> LaserJock, why dont you invent that for me
[05:13] <imbrandon> heh
[05:13] <nixternal> your conversations probably wouldn't make it to us..as you would probably sit there talking to yourself on irc
[05:13] <imbrandon> hahah
[05:13] <nixternal> !seen imbrandon
[05:13] <ubotu> imbrandon is on IRC right now!
 ya, he is sitting over there in the corner talking to himself
[05:14] <nixternal> if i remember correctly, you have a vista install, i would laugh if you got that bug
[05:14] <imbrandon> i had one, but it got wiped about 30 minutes after i took the screenshots
[05:15] <nixternal> haha
[05:15] <imbrandon> ( iirc ajmitch has one too )
[05:15] <imbrandon> ;P
[05:15] <theCore> imbrandon, don't you find that people abuses of !ops?
[05:15] <imbrandon> theCore, what are you talking about ?
[05:15] <nixternal> someone noted that the 60k in ubuntu bugs is nuts, but i was like dude that is over a 2 year span on a few releases already, i told him multiply that by 10, and that is what vista is dealing with right now
[05:15] <theCore> imbrandon, are you in #ubuntu?
[05:16] <Fujitsu> nixternal, also note that Ubuntu includes a whole lot more stuff by default than Vista.
[05:16] <nixternal> ya
[05:16] <theCore> another false call like in -offtopic
[05:16] <nixternal> what is that link in #ubuntu
[05:16] <nixternal> i don't want to look
[05:16] <imbrandon> theCore, no i havent join #ubuntu this evening
[05:17] <Fujitsu> Hahahha. An Archer just got kicked.
[05:17] <Fujitsu> I like bug 67492.
[05:17] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 67492 in mail-notification "No longer launches mail reader after upgrading to etch" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/67492
[05:17] <theCore> imbrandon, n/m, it been taken care of
[05:17] <Fujitsu> Etch... in Ubuntu?
[05:18] <imbrandon> heh
[05:19] <nixternal> lol
[05:19] <LaserJock> is that an imported bug?
[05:19] <Fujitsu> No.
[05:20] <Fujitsu> I presume (s)he means Edgy.
[05:20] <Fujitsu> I've seen a number of people make that mistake before.
[05:20] <Fujitsu> I don't know how they manage to make that mistake, but it seems to happen a lot.
[05:20] <imbrandon> make sure, i've seen lots of people thing "upgrading" to debian was legit
[05:20] <imbrandon> s/thing/think
[05:21] <nixternal> so who is going to run the chicago marathon with me tomorrow?
[05:21] <imbrandon> Hillary Clinton ?
[05:21] <nixternal> i hope not
[05:21] <imbrandon> watch out, your talking about the next president
[05:21] <nixternal> omg die
[05:22] <nixternal> i will move to greenland
[05:22] <LaserJock> well, did you see Andrew Pollock's blog post about finding an ubuntuX versioned package in Debian?
[05:23] <imbrandon> LaserJock, haha no
[05:23] <imbrandon> LaserJock, got a link ?
[05:23] <LaserJock> http://blog.andrew.net.au/2006/10/21#ubuntu_in_debian
[05:23] <imbrandon> man that would suck if it gets changed by us again ( 1.4.3-4ubutnu5-0buntu2 )
[05:24] <LaserJock> yeah, that would be very dumb
[05:25] <imbrandon> heh why would it not just be a new debian version , i can see no reason ubuntu string would ever be in a debian package
[05:25] <imbrandon> unless it was froma  lazy DD
[05:25] <ajmitch> originally it was a native package
[05:26] <imbrandon> ajmitch, still
[05:26] <ajmitch> in this case it was originally developed for ubuntu
[05:26] <imbrandon> ajmitch, wouldent it be version 1.4.3-0debian563 then ?
[05:26] <imbrandon> ubuntu isnt in the version string for native packages afaik
[05:27] <ajmitch> it often is
[05:28] <theCore> good night, all
[05:28] <LaserJock> but they should still have stripped the Ubuntu versioning, native or not
[05:29] <minghua> I suppose it's hard to differentiate edgy and etch when neither work makes sense to you (which, I would guess, happens for a lot of non-native speakers)
[05:29] <imbrandon> that would be my thinking
[05:29] <imbrandon> LaserJock, ^
[05:30] <LaserJock> minghua: that's why I say "testing" instead of "etch" :-)
[05:30] <minghua> LaserJock: well, wait when etch is released :-)
[05:31] <LaserJock> well, for me stable testing and unstable make more sense
[05:31] <imbrandon> i do for sid becouse it never changes
[05:31] <minghua> technically speaking, etch doesn't exist until it becomes stable
[05:31] <imbrandon> stays in development
[05:31] <imbrandon> ;)
[05:32] <imbrandon> you know why do we not use that model for our 6 month releases ?
[05:32] <LaserJock> grumpy groundhog !
[05:33] <imbrandon> well i mean more moving from sid(grumpy) to testing then after 6months its stable
[05:34] <LaserJock> how often (in general) does fedora and suse release?
[05:35] <LaserJock> I find these 6 month release cycles a bit tiring :-)
[05:35] <imbrandon> suse once a year stable , fedora 6 months iirc
[05:35] <Fujitsu> I wonder when Grumpy will actually materialise...
[05:36] <Fujitsu> LaserJock, Fedora is very similar to us.
[05:36] <Fujitsu> Almost in sync, in fact.
[05:37] <imbrandon> but fedora is gnome centric too, its sucks that the kde releases and gnome releases arent
[05:37] <imbrandon> makes it tougher for kubuntu becosue our stuff is generaly later
[05:38] <LaserJock> KDE doesn't have a time-based release schedule does it?
[05:39] <imbrandon> yea and its normaly 2 months behind gnome
[05:39] <imbrandon> for the most part
[05:41] <LaserJock> I've been increasingly confused/conflicted in the whole Gnome vs. KDE thing lately :/
[05:41] <LaserJock> The more I get involved with FLOSS in general it seems like it's forcing me to choose
[05:41] <imbrandon> heh , its a strange animal to try to understand both
[05:41] <LaserJock> which I don't like
[05:41] <Kyral> Do not focus on the difference between GNOME and KDE
[05:41] <imbrandon> as they are really very diffrent in not only programing but principals etc
[05:41] <LaserJock> yeah, but I have to
[05:41] <Kyral> Focus on the unity between GNOME and KDE
[05:42] <Kyral> and be at peace
[05:42] <LaserJock> heh
[05:42] <imbrandon> heh
[05:42] <LaserJock> but I don't have time to do both, IMO
[05:42] <Kyral> As the Perl Monk says "There Is More Than One Way To Do It"
[05:42] <Fujitsu> Unity, what unity?
[05:42] <Fujitsu> Project Portland?
[05:42] <Kyral> In general
[05:43] <Kyral> Use Lunar thinking....
[05:43] <Kyral> Wow....I've been spending too much time in Psychology class
[05:44] <Kyral> This has been a moment of Zen
[05:44] <imbrandon> heh /me has zen too, all KDE
[05:44] <imbrandon> ;)
[05:47] <LaserJock> imbrandon: I've got one foot in each, no zen here
[05:48] <LaserJock> yet anyway
[05:49] <imbrandon> heh i was there, untill one day i was using gnome on SuSE and realized that I was using mostly all KDE apps with very very few exceptions , then I thought about the fact that neither Gnome nor KDE were perfect so i used the DE to go with the apps for better intergration
[05:49] <Kyral> Qt: 3.3.6
[05:49] <Kyral> KDE: 3.5.5
[05:49] <Kyral> kde-config: 1.0
[05:49] <imbrandon> thats just my 0.2c
[05:50] <imbrandon> Qt: 3.3.6
[05:50] <imbrandon> KDE: 3.5.5
[05:50] <imbrandon> kde-config: 1.0
[05:50] <Kyral> hmmm
[05:50] <Kyral> Very good...you are using the new Konversation
[05:51] <Kyral> But yah...quite frankly KDE 4 is gonna blow GNOME outta the water
[05:51] <imbrandon> Kyral, yea
[05:52] <Kyral> Quite frankly...GNOME is good...except for GConf
[05:52] <Kyral> GConf reminds me of the Registry
[05:52] <Kyral> and makes me shudder
[05:52] <Fujitsu> Kyral, it's similar, just different.
[05:52] <Fujitsu> It is scarily similar, though.
[05:53] <LaserJock> I some of both and dislike some of both
[05:53] <LaserJock> so I just end up running both
[05:53] <LaserJock> Gnome and KDE that is, not gconf and registry
[05:53] <LaserJock> ;-)
[05:53] <imbrandon> lol
[05:55] <LaserJock> I like a lot of KDE apps, I just find they don't look so great and KDE seems kinda unpolished to me in looks
[05:55] <imbrandon> LaserJock, well thats one thing about kde, it can look like anything
[05:55] <imbrandon> the themes are much more customizable than gnome imho
[05:56] <LaserJock> but they all stink for me
[05:56] <LaserJock> I've tweaked and tweaked, and never got a desktop I liked the look and feel of better then the default Gnome desktop
[05:56] <imbrandon> heh make one ;) klearlooks looks exactly liike gnome clearlooks ;)
[05:57] <LaserJock> well, it's not exactly just the theme though
[05:57] <LaserJock> it's got like screen artifacts and weirdnesses
[05:57] <imbrandon> well alot of its what your used to, gnome is more like osx and kde more like windows ( in more ways than just layout )
[05:57] <imbrandon> LaserJock, wow i've never noticed that
[05:58] <LaserJock> it always just feels like it's 3/4 done
[05:58] <imbrandon> i get screen artifacts in gnome
[05:59] <imbrandon> hehe but each has their own reasons
[05:59] <imbrandon> and both are good, its just a matter of prefrence
[05:59] <Fujitsu> LaserJock, GNOME's interface is a whole lot more polished, yes...
[06:00] <Fujitsu> But KDE absolutely rocks in a number of areas.
[06:00] <imbrandon> well i just feel like i'm on a closed program when in gnome persoanly becouse there is so much i cant change even if i want to without recompiling
[06:00] <imbrandon> and then only if i have the skill to code/change what i'm wanting
[06:01] <LaserJock> I've had a couple time where I found a gnome app lacking configurability
[06:01] <LaserJock> but it's pretty rare
[06:02] <imbrandon> well not just the apps but the DE its self too
[06:02] <LaserJock> but it's really annoying when it happens
[06:02] <LaserJock> well, I never change anything ;-)
[06:02] <imbrandon> heh thats one way kde shines, EVERYTHING just about nis configureable
[06:02] <imbrandon> very very very little isnt
[06:02] <LaserJock> right
[06:03] <imbrandon> but thats also a downfall if not done right too, as in config dialogs are scary
[06:03] <Fujitsu> But KDE is ugly and cluttered, IMO.
[06:03] <LaserJock> my problem is I configure the snot out of it and it still looks not as good as a default Gnome
[06:03] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, it /can/ be if not done right
[06:03] <imbrandon> but for the most part no
[06:03] <Fujitsu> GNOME's interface is just so nice and clean.
[06:03] <minghua> LaserJock: when you say lacking configurability, that's even after you poking around in gconf?
[06:03] <minghua> (that really sucks, I agree)
[06:04] <LaserJock> I don't poke around in gconf
[06:04] <imbrandon> poking gconf isnt configurability ( thats like regedit )
[06:04] <minghua> LaserJock: sometimes you have to :-)
[06:04] <LaserJock> I haven't opened gconf-editor in years
[06:04] <LaserJock> it "Just Works" for me
[06:04] <minghua> well, I still find gconf having fewer options than KDE configuration center (whatever that is called) :-)
[06:04] <chillywilly> bahavior*
[06:05] <LaserJock> sure, there's no doubt that KDE is more configurable
[06:05] <imbrandon> kde system settings ;)
[06:05] <LaserJock> my point is in Gnome I don't need configurability since it just works by default
[06:05] <LaserJock> KDE gets close for sure
[06:06] <LaserJock> but I find it frustrating to spend a week tweaking my desktop
[06:06] <LaserJock> and even then I get weirdnesses
[06:06] <minghua> KDE is good, I won't deny it.  It just doesn't suit me
[06:06] <imbrandon> well the defaults are dreat for most things, but tweaking your desktop for a week and having ti do what you want is great
[06:06] <LaserJock> but man KDE has got some sweet stuff
[06:07] <imbrandon> then not tweaking it and not having it done the way i want
[06:07] <imbrandon> i feel so closed off that way
[06:07] <chillywilly> the more you configure things the more it is a pain in the ass when you move to a different env
[06:07] <imbrandon> chillywilly, well if it work why move, thats my thing ( and backing up /home isnt hard )
[06:07] <LaserJock> imbrandon: that's my point though, I tweak KDE for a week and it still doesn't seem as good as Gnome is by default
[06:07] <chillywilly> like use someone else's desktop or rebuild your box, etc.
[06:08] <LaserJock> s/good/nice/
[06:08] <LaserJock> KDE *is* good
[06:08] <LaserJock> I just don't find it as nice as Gnome :-)
[06:09] <imbrandon> LaserJock, and see if feel the exact opsite but the only probelm is gnome i cant make it the way i want
[06:09] <chillywilly> lots of people cried bloody murder when gnome took away all the options
[06:09] <LaserJock> hmm, I wonder why that is
[06:09] <chillywilly> frankly, I just don't miss them anymore
[06:09] <minghua> speaking of rebuilding box and change settings, it KDE's setting in a centralized place?
[06:09] <imbrandon> minghua, /home/users/.kde
[06:09] <minghua> I put my .bashrc, .vimrc, .muttrc etc. in SVN
[06:10] <imbrandon> ~/.kde
[06:10] <minghua> but I find GNOME's settings pretty scattered
[06:10] <Lathiat>   61 N   Oct 21 Samir van de Sa (  27) move the ubuntu irc channels to jabber ?
[06:10] <chillywilly> I belive they use the good ol' conf files....yea I've been meaning to put my /home, etc. in svn
[06:10] <LaserJock> I'd bzr it
[06:10] <imbrandon> bzr rocks
[06:10] <chillywilly> don't really know bzr
[06:11] <imbrandon> think svn-ng
[06:11] <imbrandon> ;)
[06:11] <imbrandon> it does everything svn does ( even import / export svn )
[06:11] <imbrandon> pluss all the bzr goodness
[06:12] <LaserJock> bzr is really nice for local things like doing revision control/back ups on /etc
[06:12] <LaserJock> very easy too since you don't have a repo
[06:12] <LaserJock> you just tar up the .bzr dir and you're backed up
[06:13] <chillywilly> no time to to learn another RCS
[06:14] <imbrandon> chillywilly, there is no learning thats what i'm saying, s/svn/bzr and your good
[06:14] <imbrandon> any of the extras are optional but the basic commands are exactly the same
[06:14] <ajmitch> oh dear, Hobbsee's here
[06:15] <imbrandon> brb more mt dew
[06:15] <Fujitsu> Hey Hobbsee.
[06:15] <ajmitch> imbrandon: it won't work
[06:15] <minghua> hi Hobbsee
[06:15] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: indeed!
[06:15] <Hobbsee> hehe
[06:15] <imbrandon> ajmitch, probably not hehe but i gotta try
[06:15] <imbrandon> lol
[06:15] <LaserJock> hmm, another KDE'er
[06:16] <minghua> I usually postpone learning a new RCS tool until I need one, there are just too many
[06:16] <imbrandon> yea Hobbsee where were you ~15 minutes ago trying to get LaserJock 100% kdeized
[06:16] <LaserJock> I hate discussing these kinds of things in here but I value your opinions
[06:16] <imbrandon> well as long as it dosent turn into a flame war i like it too, as there is merits for both
[06:17] <minghua> the GNOME vs. KDE discussion in this channel is the sanest I've seen
[06:17] <imbrandon> my choice is KDE, dosnet make it right for everyone
[06:17] <imbrandon> but i'll still advocate it ;)
[06:17] <LaserJock> well, I'm interested in the differences in development too
[06:18] <LaserJock> being a scientist with not a ton of programming background I'm not sure how to evaluate them as development platforms
[06:18] <imbrandon> well development wise its a whole nother animal, here is what i've found, kde has librarys for every thing from http access to fb drawing, gnome you basicly only have the widgest and everything else is from scratch
[06:18] <imbrandon> s/st/ts
[06:19] <minghua> I suppose for science applications Qt is the definite choice for development
[06:19] <minghua> as they have windows/mac/linux
[06:21] <LaserJock> I've started working on a gnome chemistry library/collection of apps
[06:21] <LaserJock> and it seems awfully scattered
[06:22] <LaserJock> but then maybe that isn't such a bad thing sometimes
[06:24] <LaserJock> if desktop integration and consistency wasn't such a nice thing I'd say "screw the desktops" and go DE neutral
[06:25] <hub> KDE is better API than Gnome
[06:25] <hub> Gnome has better/saner UI than KDE
[06:25] <Fujitsu> GNOME's UI is just so clean...
[06:25] <Fujitsu> But KDE is flexible.
[06:26] <hub> Fujitsu: it is because they thought user
[06:26] <LaserJock> hub: why is the KDE API better?
[06:26] <hub> Fujitsu: KDE is *messy*
[06:26] <hub> LaserJock: because it does not try to reimplement an object model in C
[06:26] <LaserJock> ah
[06:26] <hub> LaserJock: you don't have to write 150LOC in C to subclass a widget
[06:27] <hub> but Gnomers dislike C++
[06:27] <LaserJock> hmm, the Gnome app I'm working on is C++
[06:27] <LaserJock> so I guess I got lucky
[06:27] <LaserJock> ;-)
[06:28] <imbrandon> python ftw
[06:28] <hub> written in Gtkmm?
[06:28] <LaserJock> no
[06:28] <hub> imbrandon: Python? sorry I have to laugh
[06:28] <minghua> I suppose GNOME API is about as sane as you can get from C? :-)
[06:28] <imbrandon> hub, laugh all you want
[06:28] <imbrandon> linux is about choice ;)
[06:28] <hub> minghua: you can make saner in C
[06:28] <Fujitsu> gtkmm is good.
[06:28] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: *grin*
[06:28] <hub> imbrandon: well lets talk about memory usage then
[06:28] <hub> too much choice kill the choice
[06:28] <LaserJock> hub: has Gnome ever discussed moving to C++?
[06:29] <imbrandon> hub, memory useage isnt one of my concerns ;)
[06:29] <minghua> hub: I know you are a good programmer, I'll take your work for it then :-)
[06:29] <hub> LaserJock: it wil be a massive NO
[06:29] <imbrandon> if it was i would use asm ;)
[06:29] <hub> LaserJock: they'd rather switch to C#
[06:29] <LaserJock> hmm, interesting
[06:29] <Fujitsu> hub, are you serious?
[06:29] <hub> Fujitsu: about C#?
[06:29] <hub> hell yeah
[06:30] <imbrandon> c# is nice, but i find it amusing you laugh at python but like c# ;)
[06:30] <imbrandon> anyhow bbiab
[06:30] <hub> imbrandon: memory usage should be your concern when it comes to deploy on old hardware
[06:30] <hub> "Linux use less memory than $OS" is a myth
[06:30] <hub> a total myth
[06:30] <hub> imbrandon: I never said I like C#
[06:30] <imbrandon> hub, if its older than 2 years then i dont really care tbh
[06:31] <hub> imbrandon: I said they'd switch to C# rather than C++
[06:31] <hub> *they* ain't me
[06:31] <hub> imbrandon: that is the problem
[06:31] <imbrandon> not for me
[06:31] <imbrandon> maybe for you
[06:31] <imbrandon> ;)
[06:31] <hub> imbrandon: i replaced my laptop after 5 years
[06:31] <hub> FIVE
[06:31] <hub> because it broke
[06:31] <imbrandon> great
[06:31] <imbrandon> and?
[06:31] <LaserJock> well, so far I've only written apps for myself and they are small so Python is great
[06:32] <LaserJock> I couldn't care less about memory for me personally
[06:32] <LaserJock> but if I was developing an app for others I'd probably think about it a bit
[06:32] <imbrandon> i have a 333mhz 96mb ram dapper server that run python apps quite happily
[06:32] <hub> imbrandon: and apparently developers think that resources are cheap for *everybody* which is not the case
[06:32] <hub> imbrandon: dapper server.
[06:32] <hub> imbrandon: I'm talking about desktops
[06:33] <imbrandon> hub, i dont live in the past , if its more older than what was $500 two years ago then thats not my ( nor Ubuntu's target ) try xubuntu
[06:33] <imbrandon> anyhow REALLY gone bbiab
[06:33] <hub> whatever
[06:33] <hub> this is exactly what I'm saying
[06:33] <hub> most devs don't give a sh*t to resources
[06:34] <hub> and I see that on some bad choices made with Ubuntu
[06:34] <imbrandon> no i do, but i'm not gonna worry aobut not compiling on a m68k or a commadore 64
[06:34] <Fujitsu> Like?
[06:34] <Fujitsu> Mono?
[06:34] <imbrandon> that hold back inovation
[06:34] <hub> Fujitsu: like writting every user application in Python
[06:34] <imbrandon> 2 year old $500 hardware is not a great "top end"
[06:34] <hub> including bzr
[06:35] <hub> imbrandon: innovation my *ss
[06:35] <hub> imbrandon: you speak like a marketdroid
[06:35] <LaserJock> yeah, my problem is I'd probably favor doing things in Python because I can do it much faster and have more features
[06:35] <imbrandon> hub, and you speak like a old hardware GNU elitest ? and ?
[06:35] <crimsun> (civil, please)
[06:35] <hub> imbrandon: no I'm not. I just disagree with you
[06:35] <imbrandon> sorry i was totaly wrong for that, i appolgise
[06:36] <imbrandon> but 2 year old hardware that was $500 at the time is not a high "top end" imho and you will have a tough time convinceing me otherise
[06:36] <imbrandon> for desktops
[06:36] <LaserJock> fine, we have different types of people, that's cool
[06:37] <LaserJock> we need people focused on memory issues
[06:37] <hub> it is like the Evolution developer that consider SpamAssassin as a good "client-side" antispam
[06:37] <hub> when it take fifteen seconds to check a single message
[06:38] <imbrandon> you have to draw the line somewhere and expect that a c64 isnt goona be a viable desktop , i personaly choose ubuntus target of 2 year old 500$ systesm as my target, its not for everyone , but nor is every OS
[06:38] <hub> imbrandon: c64, that's over 20 year old. were you born at time?
[06:38] <whiprush> I had one!
[06:38] <Fujitsu> I still have a working one :)
[06:39] <imbrandon> a c64 was my first computer, well actualy a vic 20 was then c64
[06:39] <imbrandon> ;)
[06:39] <hub> LaserJock: yeah in Gnome there are people spending a lot of time for that and all get discarded because they put something else that waste memory with its interpreter
[06:39] <StevenK> My first computer was a TRS-80.
[06:39] <hub> ti99/4a
[06:39] <hub> so what's the point
[06:40] <hub> 128MB is 2048 time the memory the c64 had, and no decent linux distro run it decently
[06:41] <imbrandon> depends on what you want to do with the hardware, as i said i have a dapper box with 96mb ram running happily
[06:41] <imbrandon> if you mean "desktop" yea 128mb ram is far to old
[06:41] <chillywilly> lallaalla
[06:41] <hub> I mean DESKTOP
[06:41] <hub> 128MB should be plain enough
[06:42] <hub> but not with python sucking all the juice
[06:42] <imbrandon> you do know that even as far back as breezy ubuntu recomended 256mb ram?
[06:43] <imbrandon> if you have 128 you need to look into "alternative" desktops such as fluxbox or xubuntu or DSL
[06:43] <imbrandon> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RecommendedHardwareMetric
[06:43] <chillywilly> neither KDE nor Gnome will run with that little RAM
[06:44] <LaserJock> I think they will
[06:44] <LaserJock> just not very fast
[06:47] <chillywilly> ok, they won't be "usable"
[06:47] <chillywilly> they will be slow as molasses
[06:47] <Fujitsu> chillywilly, they're not, actually.
[06:47] <Fujitsu> GNOME runs OK
[06:49] <chillywilly> I know from experience
[06:50] <LaserJock> I ran Gnome on a 333MHz with 128 MB Ram for some time
[06:50] <LaserJock> it was an older version
[06:50] <chillywilly> I had old computers back in the day and the modern linux desktop forced me to upgrade
[06:50] <hub> imbrandon: xubuntu? haha
[06:50] <LaserJock> but firefox worked ok
[06:50] <hub> imbrandon: even in 256MB it does not run properly
[06:50] <LaserJock> OO.o took some time to load though
[06:51] <minghua> LaserJock runs OOo on a 128MB machine? wow.
[06:51] <LaserJock> used to
[06:51] <LaserJock> even firefox and OOo at the same time ;-)
[06:52] <minghua> yeah, s/runs/ran/
[06:52] <minghua> damn grammar.
[06:52] <crimsun> if you have a ton of swap, sure
[06:52] <minghua> I assume that's firefox 1.0.x and OOo 1.0.x then
[06:52] <LaserJock> yeah
[06:56] <chillywilly> well, I used to live with it too for a while...I don't have a single system with less than 512MB RAM....most have 1GB RAM
[07:13] <imbrandon> ...
[07:14] <crimsun> I'm getting by on 512 MB. Painful at times but mostly tolerable.
[07:15] <imbrandon> i have 512 in my laptop with kde and its not so bad
[07:15] <StevenK> 256Mb on the laptop is a little painful.
[07:15] <imbrandon> desktop has 1.5 though
[07:19] <Fujitsu> Currently running KDE on here with 1GB, it's great.
[07:28] <LaserJock> crimsun: 512 MB is painful?
[07:28] <LaserJock> crimsun: what kind of apps?
[07:29] <crimsun> epiphany-browser, xfce-terminal, quodlibet, vlc
[07:29] <crimsun> xfce4-terminal, even
[07:29] <crimsun> likely due to my library and not quod, though
[07:29] <StevenK> 370Mb or so, here.
[07:30] <StevenK> Which is just over what Firefox is using with ten tabs open.
[07:32] <LaserJock> hmm, I've been working on a machine with 256MB and it's not bad
[07:32] <crimsun> err, I neglected to mention that I'm using xfwm's compositor
[07:33] <LaserJock> my laptop right now has 512MB and I'm using 296 with xchat, gnome-terminal, nautilus, Firefox (with 4 tabs) and OO.o open
[07:33] <crimsun> i've tried switching away from quod libet, but its search is just too darned powerful
[07:33] <Fujitsu> Ah. OO.o.
[07:33] <StevenK> Then again, I'm a whole 188 bytes into swap.
[07:34] <LaserJock> I wouldn't even bother with swap with anything more then 512MB
[07:34] <StevenK> Better to be safe than OOM-killed.
[07:35] <LaserJock> but maybe my requirements are light, I didn't think so exactly though
[07:35] <LaserJock> I've got no swap on my iMac (1 GB ram) although I might make a swap file
[07:37] <LaserJock> I couldn't figure out how to get a swap partition on this last install of edgy :/
[07:37] <LaserJock> I wonder if bootcamp messed something up
[07:41] <LaserJock> crimsun: btw, thanks for the "Thinking in C++" reference
[07:42] <crimsun> np
[07:42] <crimsun> bruce e. rocks.
[07:43] <LaserJock> I'm enjoying the discussion of object oriented programming
[07:43] <LaserJock> coming from a Fortran background, OOP is something I'm still trying to wrap my head around
[07:45] <minghua> crimsun: I want to thank you for the "beginning python" reference, too :-)
[07:45] <crimsun> np
[07:45] <imbrandon> i just want to thank crimsun for rockin ;)
[07:45] <LaserJock> yes
[07:45] <LaserJock> uber-MOTU and prince of programming :-)
[07:46] <crimsun> bddebian rocks; I'm just a ponyphiliac
[07:46] <imbrandon> hahaha
[07:46] <imbrandon> anyone bored and wanna waist 5 minutes laughing ( and has flash installed ) http://www.imbrandon.com/misc/flash/windoz.swf
[07:49] <LaserJock> that's got some funny stuff
[07:49] <imbrandon> heh i like the run the best
[07:51] <imbrandon> or the sign into msn
[07:52] <LaserJock> brb
[07:52] <Fujitsu> Evil migrating OK button!
[07:53] <imbrandon> lol
[07:54] <imbrandon> crimsun, i found this to be helpfull in learning the basics of any lang too http://forums.programming-designs.com/viewtopic.php?pid=3482
[07:54] <imbrandon> not really lang specific but applies to all when starting off
[07:54] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: *g*
[07:55] <imbrandon> heh
[07:55] <StevenK> Oh Perl is fine, I can debug that easily.
[07:56] <imbrandon> i can if its my code, i ahve problems with someone elses though
[07:56] <imbrandon> heh
[07:56] <imbrandon> ahh ;)
[07:56] <imbrandon> i should have poked you then, probably would have only taken 5 munutes heh
[07:56] <imbrandon> but i got it done now
[07:57] <imbrandon> lol
[07:58] <StevenK> imbrandon: Only if you can match my going rate. :-P
[07:58] <imbrandon> hahaha doubtfull
[07:58] <imbrandon> well maybe if you broke into 5 minutes hehe
[07:59] <imbrandon> i should have stuck some money away before the dot com boom heheh i had a NICE going rate back then for about 2 years
[07:59] <imbrandon> but you live and learn ;)
[08:02] <StevenK> imbrandon: You poor bastard.
[08:02] <imbrandon> that would never fly in todays market
[08:02] <StevenK> Like Cold Fusion is coding anyway.
[08:02] <LaserJock> and has been forever
[08:02] <imbrandon> hahaha
[08:02] <imbrandon> its coding as much as php is ( that i've moved to now )
[08:02] <StevenK> PHP isn't either.
[08:02] <imbrandon> s/UDS/USD
[08:03] <imbrandon> no html isnt , php is
[08:03] <StevenK> No PHP isn't.
[08:03] <imbrandon> howso ?
[08:03] <imbrandon> if it can process logic its programing imho
[08:04] <StevenK> PHP is over used, over abused, and embedding Java-esque code in HTML doesn't make it code.
[08:04] <imbrandon> maybe not asm but php is as much programing as perl or python
[08:05] <imbrandon> hahah most of the php stuff i do isnt embeded in html or even used on the web
[08:06] <imbrandon> hehe
[08:06] <LaserJock> I'm staying blissfully ignorant of PHP for now
[08:07] <imbrandon> php is simple to pickup for web stuff if you know any c++ at all
[08:07] <imbrandon> thats the best part of it
[08:07] <imbrandon> other than that there are usaly better tools
[08:07] <imbrandon> for vaious jobs
[08:08] <imbrandon> but php syntax and use is almost exactly like c++ only webcentric
[08:08] <imbrandon> more soda brb
[08:08] <imbrandon> ( and no compiling )
[08:08] <LaserJock> imbrandon: dude, you just need a Mt. Dew IV drip
[08:09] <nixternal> and a swift kick in the
[08:09] <nixternal> hey, whats up
[08:10] <imbrandon> LaserJock, hahaha if they made them i would be the first in line
[08:10] <ajmitch> imbrandon: how much do you go through a day?
[08:10] <imbrandon> i just need a fridge closer to the computer
[08:10] <ajmitch> and I thought I was bad...
[08:10] <imbrandon> ajmitch, mt dew ? if cans about a case, if 2 liters about 3
[08:11] <ajmitch> though at the moment I usually go a few days between drinks
[08:11] <ajmitch> rather than several a day
[08:11] <imbrandon> hehe
[08:11] <LaserJock> I've had to cut way back on soda because my teeth are really bad
[08:11] <StevenK> imbrandon: A case is 24 375ml cans?
[08:11] <imbrandon> StevenK, yea
[08:11] <StevenK> *Jesus*
[08:11] <Hobbsee> 9L.  strike!
[08:12] <StevenK> That's 9L
[08:12] <Hobbsee> StevenK: :D
[08:12] <ajmitch> StevenK: yes, that's quite insane
[08:12] <imbrandon> i drink the hell outa mt dew ;)
[08:12] <Hobbsee> StevenK: clearly you havent seen the picture
[08:12] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: I haven't
[08:12] <StevenK> imbrandon: Do you have a direct sales line to PepsiCo or something?
[08:13] <imbrandon> lol no i wish, i tried to get them to put a machine in my house
[08:13] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: StevenK http://buntudot.org/people/~imbrandon/misc/mt_dew.jpg
[08:13] <imbrandon> they said no
[08:13] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: and please remove that terrible, evil hackergotchi of me
[08:13] <nixternal> and that was empty
[08:13] <ajmitch> ooh, hackergotchi?
[08:13] <StevenK> Ohhh, Hobbsee has a hackergotchi?
[08:13] <StevenK> !
[08:13] <Hobbsee> it's very crap, so for all intents and purposes i dont.
[08:14] <ajmitch> found it!
[08:14] <StevenK> ajmitch: Share!
[08:14] <LaserJock> ajmitch: where
[08:14] <ajmitch> amazing, all her hair is chopped off in this :)
[08:14] <Hobbsee> they stole my hair :(
[08:14] <Hobbsee> yeah :(
[08:14] <ajmitch> http://buntudot.org/people/~imbrandon/misc/hobbsee_gotchi.png
[08:14] <Hobbsee> doesnt look so weird
[08:14] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: don't worry, I haven't shared the photos from when I was visiting :)
[08:14] <StevenK> Hah
[08:15] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: you'd better not.  i know where you live, remember
[08:15] <imbrandon> heh i dident move it in time
[08:15] <imbrandon> lol
[08:15] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: what's elkbuntu's name?
[08:15] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: vaguely
[08:15] <ajmitch> LaserJock: melissa draper
[08:15] <Hobbsee> and i know where you'll be in january
[08:15] <imbrandon> LaserJock, melissa drapper
[08:15] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: melissa
[08:15] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: you know where I *might* be in january
[08:15] <cypher1_> Hobbsee, hi!
[08:15] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: pia will eat you alive if you dotn come, i expect
[08:15] <Hobbsee> hi cypher1_
[08:16] <elkbuntu> o.O
[08:16] <imbrandon> Hobbsee, you really want me to remove it ?
[08:16] <imbrandon> heya elky !!
[08:16] <LaserJock> nooooo
[08:16] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: yes please
[08:16] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: fine - pay for my flights & arrange time off work for me
[08:16] <imbrandon> Hobbsee, gone
[08:16] <imbrandon> lol
[08:16] <LaserJock> come on, I haven't seen it yet
[08:17] <imbrandon> crap i forgot about all my junk on buntudot.org/people/....
[08:17] <StevenK> Too late!
[08:17] <zakame> hi all
[08:17] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: yay :)
[08:17] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: hehe
[08:17] <LaserJock> ah I didn't relate elkubuntu = melissa drapper, cool
[08:17] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: hmmm
[08:17] <imbrandon> LaserJock, yup and be nice or she'll poke you with a Hobbsee stick at MTV
[08:17] <imbrandon> lol
[08:18] <zakame> Hobbsee stck?
[08:18] <nixternal> http://buntudot.org/people/~imbrandon/screenshots/ponies1.png
[08:18] <nixternal> ghahahaha
[08:18] <Hobbsee> zakame: my long pointy stick of doom
[08:18] <StevenK> nixternal: This doesn't suprise me, given what imbrandon drinks.
[08:18] <imbrandon> nixternal, yea thats old ( as with the rest of the stuff there )
[08:18] <nixternal> i remember when you did that
[08:19] <LaserJock> elkbuntu: thanks for the planet post on the survey, I hadn't noticed it before :-)
[08:19] <nixternal> he drinks mt. dew, not lsd
[08:19] <Hobbsee> isnt that theme terrible!
[08:19] <zakame> Hobbsee: ooh, a very loong stick I imagine :P
[08:19] <imbrandon> i need to just rm -rf it as i use imbrandon,com more nowe
[08:19] <elkbuntu> LaserJock, heh. yeah.. i was sort of a bit late with doing that :(
[08:20] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: you don't really know where I live, btw
[08:20] <ajmitch> hello elkbuntu
[08:20] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: more that i dont remember
[08:20] <Hobbsee> zakame: and *very* pointy
[08:20] <ajmitch> either one works
[08:20] <Hobbsee> true that
[08:20] <elkbuntu> Hobbsee, you could at least let me see your hackergotchi :(
[08:21] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: i thought they posted a link
[08:21] <Hobbsee> oh, i'ts gone now
[08:21] <zakame> haha
[08:21] <imbrandon> Hobbsee, you said for me to remove it
[08:21] <imbrandon> so i did
[08:22] <imbrandon> lol
[08:22] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: yay :)
[08:22] <imbrandon> silly goose
[08:22] <StevenK> Aww
[08:22] <imbrandon> but i bet StevenK or ajmitch has a copy
[08:22] <ajmitch> nope
[08:22] <ajmitch> I don't
[08:22] <StevenK> -rw-r--r-- 1 steven users 17K 2006-10-22 16:17 hobbsee_gotchi.png
[08:22] <StevenK> Nope. :-P
[08:22] <imbrandon> imbrandon@gobstopper:~/public/misc$ mv hobbsee_gotchi.png h.c
[08:22] <imbrandon> imbrandon@gobstopper:~/public/misc$ rm h.c
[08:22] <imbrandon> lol
[08:23] <imbrandon> i need to make her a better one "with hair"
[08:23] <imbrandon> heh
[08:23] <Fujitsu> I for some reason get the feeling that Kontact isn't great at handling large amounts of mail...
[08:23] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: indeed.
[08:23] <LaserJock> imbrandon: do the same for me, ok? :-)
[08:23] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, i have about 10k message in kontact
[08:23] <Fujitsu> I tried to delete 40000 messages from an IMAP server in the US, and it sort of hung everything for 15 minutes until I killed it.
[08:24] <imbrandon> LaserJock, send me a pic and i'll happily make one, i like makin gotchi's
[08:24] <Fujitsu> (these are mail archives going several years back, so there's a lot)
[08:24] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, kontact != imap unless your on kde 3.5.5
[08:24] <imbrandon> and even then its iffy
[08:25] <LaserJock> imbrandon: have you seen mine on planet? it's pretty bad
[08:25] <Fujitsu> It works fine!
[08:25] <Fujitsu> (running Edgy, not sure which KDE)
[08:25] <Fujitsu> LaserJock, not too bad.
[08:25] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, are you in koversation right now ?
[08:25] <Fujitsu> imbrandon, XChat.
[08:25] <imbrandon> type /kdeinfo if so
[08:25] <imbrandon> ohh
[08:25] <imbrandon> umm
[08:26] <Fujitsu> 3.5.5, it is.
[08:26] <imbrandon> yea
[08:26] <imbrandon> if you updated edgy its 3.5.5
[08:27] <Fujitsu> Is the default Kubuntu window border theme meant to look pretty much identical to Luna?
[08:27] <imbrandon> no
[08:27] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: not that i know of
[08:27] <nixternal> http://home.comcast.net/~charliebcz/PointyStick/PS1TableOfContent.html
[08:27] <imbrandon> and it really dosent
[08:29] <imbrandon> actualy i think the default windeco for edgy looks alot like ubuntulooks in gnome
[08:30] <imbrandon> now if you want luna , i do have an exact copy ;) Hobbsee can tell you
[08:30] <Fujitsu> It does look a fair bit like Luna!
[08:30] <ajmitch> imbrandon: you're nuts
[08:30] <Fujitsu> Good Hobbsee.
[08:31] <StevenK> imbrandon: Repeat after me, "window decoration"
[08:31] <StevenK> imbrandon: I had to read 'windeco' three times before I figured what the hell you were trying to say.
[08:31] <imbrandon> StevenK, heh
[08:31] <LaserJock> what's the best "OS X dock" like app for KDE?
[08:31] <ajmitch> imbrandon: next you'll be using beryl with all the vista clone themes
[08:31] <StevenK> With a Care Bears background.
[08:31] <imbrandon> nah i hate the way vista looks
[08:32] <imbrandon> and i need a better vid card for beryl , its slow on my comp right now
[08:34] <Fujitsu> Crystal looks to be an OK-looking not-Luna-like window decoration set... Much better.
[08:35] <imbrandon> crystal is the default silly
[08:35] <Fujitsu> Is it? It wasn't for me. :S
[08:56] <LaserJock> well, after a couple hours of fiddling around, my KDE desktop look completely stupid
[08:56] <LaserJock> :-)
[08:57] <imbrandon> haha
[08:58] <imbrandon> here is my "defaut" desktop http://www.imbrandon.com/misc/katapult.png
[08:58] <imbrandon> default*
[09:01] <imbrandon> not too bad looking for my tastes
[09:01] <crimsun> that's the default theme?
[09:02] <imbrandon> no, just the desktop i keep most of the time
[09:02] <crimsun> ah
[09:02] <imbrandon> its default + oxgyen icons + blue color ( not purple )
[09:02] <crimsun> yeah, I thought the default was purplish
[09:03] <imbrandon> yea
[09:08] <ajmitch> imbrandon: that's the oxygen folder icon?
[09:08] <imbrandon> ajmitch, yea
[09:09] <imbrandon> well one of them, there are many colord ones
[09:10] <imbrandon> ugh trying to do a clean checkout right now of them and build a new set
[09:26] <imbrandon> anything interesting on the jabber/irc thing on -devel or can i mark it all as read
[09:27] <Plug> imbrandon: "hello from NZ" ;)
[09:28] <imbrandon> Plug, ;)
[09:35] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: nope
[09:46] <crimsun> ajmitch: permission to apply http://tiber.tauware.de/~crimsun/whereami/whereami_0.3.28ubuntu1.debdiff and upload?
[09:54] <ajmitch> crimsun: aye
[09:54] <crimsun> ajmitch: thanks
[09:57] <imbrandon> crimsun, how can i find out what my alsa "device" is ( e.g its wanting something like plughw:0,2 )
[09:58] <crimsun> imbrandon: not sure what you're asking. What do you need the virtual device for?
[09:58] <imbrandon> for darkice ( an icecast2 config )
[09:59] <crimsun> imbrandon: is darkice alsa-aware now?
[09:59] <imbrandon> quote :
[09:59] <imbrandon> Now, you have to edit darkice.cfg. In the [Input]  section, you have to choose a device. If you are using OSS, device will look like "/dev/sound/dsp". If you are using Alsa, "device" will look
[09:59] <imbrandon> $ve and I have to set "device" to "plughw:0,2" to capture the sound from the SBLive.
[09:59] <imbrandon> yea i guess so
[09:59] <crimsun> cat /proc/asound/cards
[10:00] <imbrandon>  0 [I82801DBICH4   ] : ICH4 - Intel 82801DB-ICH4
[10:00] <imbrandon>                       Intel 82801DB-ICH4 with ALC658D at 0xee081000, irq 137
[10:00] <crimsun> plughw:0,2 is almost certainly incorrect for a default; you would want plughw:0,0 then
[10:00] <imbrandon> kk
[10:00] <crimsun> you can check from the output of ``cat /proc/asound/devices''
[10:01] <imbrandon> !pastebin
[10:01] <ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (you can always find it in the channel topic, among other useful things)
[10:02] <imbrandon> crimsun, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27764/
[10:02] <imbrandon> look right ?>
[10:02] <imbrandon> for 0,0
[10:02] <crimsun> be aware that explicitly specifying a non-dmix/dsnoop/asym virtual device will prevent dmix/dsnoop/asym from working. For your hardware, you'll then only be able to hear one pcm source at a time.
[10:02] <crimsun> yes
[10:03] <imbrandon> well this "howto" i'm following says i can play amarok to darkice and stream it to my icecast server
[10:03] <crimsun> absolutely
[10:03] <imbrandon> kk
[10:03] <crimsun> you just won't be able to hear anything from your icecast server if it's all on the same machine ;)
[10:03] <imbrandon> nah its a diffrent machine
[10:03] <imbrandon> only amarok and darkice are local
[10:04] <crimsun> (if you were pressed to run it all on the same machine, you could use plug:asym)
[10:04] <imbrandon> well ultimately i want to use my mic to "dj" at the same time
[10:04] <imbrandon> will that give me issues ?
[10:04] <crimsun> how much money are you willing to spend on an extra sound card?
[10:05] <imbrandon> heh i have one or two laying arround if it only take a secondf card, if it takes an expensive card i'll look into other options
[10:05] <imbrandon> hehe
[10:05] <crimsun> then no, you won't have issues ;)
[10:05] <imbrandon> so it will take 2 cards to do voice and music ?
[10:06] <imbrandon> i have a cheap sb16 laying arround somewhere
[10:06] <crimsun> with the integrated sound hardware in that machine, yes
[10:06] <imbrandon> i hope its not isa heh
[10:06] <crimsun> sb16 is nearly certainly ISA
[10:06] <crimsun> (at least I've not seen a PCI sb16)
[10:06] <imbrandon> probably my luck
[10:06] <imbrandon> heh
[10:06] <imbrandon> hold on lemme dig in my pile of parts
[10:07] <imbrandon> and see what i have
[10:07] <imbrandon> ugh yea i have 2 but both are isa
[10:07] <imbrandon> ( and no isa slots heh )
[10:08] <imbrandon> oh well i'll worry about the voice later
[10:08] <crimsun> you can always use plug:asym
[10:08] <crimsun> you may run into sync issues
[10:08] <imbrandon> if i use plug:asym will it let me do both with the built in stuff ?
[10:08] <Plug> I'd rather if you didn't use me :asym ;)
[10:08] <imbrandon> heh
[10:09] <crimsun> imbrandon: yes, with the above caveat
[10:09] <crimsun> Plug: unfortunately the syntax is fixed, sorry
[10:09] <imbrandon> worth a try , i'm just messing arround becouse someone in -offtopic said it couldent be done in linux
[10:09] <imbrandon> and wants to run windows to "dj"
[10:10] <imbrandon> so i'm proving him wrong hopefully
[10:10] <crimsun> oh it can be done; I've done it. It just becomes exponentially painful for hardware that doesn't support native pcm multiplexing.
[10:10] <imbrandon> ahh
[10:20] <Gloubiboulga> ajmitch, is it ok to upload a new texmaker with this changes : http://librarian.launchpad.net/4919063/debdiff ?
[10:21] <Gloubiboulga> it fixes a FTBFS
[10:23] <imbrandon> hum crimsun you ever used darkice? have time to help me or busy ?
[10:23] <crimsun> imbrandon: I used ices2 and icecast
[10:23] <imbrandon> well i ahve those installed
[10:23] <crimsun> not familiar w/ darkice tbh
[10:23] <imbrandon> e.g. ices2 but how can i stream from amarok to ices2 ?
[10:23] <imbrandon> ( or any music app )
[10:24] <crimsun> I used ogg123's and mpg321's stdout combined with ices2's stdin
[10:24] <imbrandon> i dont really care about the app if i can get it working heh
[10:24] <imbrandon> ahhh
[10:33] <ajmitch> Gloubiboulga: yes - drop a blank line from the changelog though
[10:33] <ajmitch> wouldn't surprise me if soyuz choked on it ;)
[10:33] <Gloubiboulga> ajmitch, sure, thanks
[10:34] <imbrandon> ahh i narrowed it down [2006-10-22  03:32:50]  EROR input-alsa/alsa_open_module Failed to open audio device plughw:0,0: Device or resource busy
[10:34] <crimsun> imbrandon: right, with your sound hardware it'd be exclusive
[10:35] <imbrandon> so i have to turn off kde sounds ? then how can i play amarok
[10:35] <imbrandon> hum /me is puzzled
[10:36] <crimsun> imbrandon: what's hogging the device?  [lsof /dev/dsp* /dev/snd/* ] 
[10:38] <imbrandon> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27769/
[10:38] <imbrandon> looks like mostly artsd
[10:38] <imbrandon> i thought kde dident use arts anymore ?
[10:39] <crimsun> arts remains a dependency of kubuntu-desktop according to apt-cache(8) show
[10:40] <crimsun> (hey, aren't you a Kubuntu guy anyway? ;-)
[10:40] <imbrandon> haha yea but i thought we removed it
[10:41] <imbrandon> man i hate sounds systems ( mostly becouse i dont understand them )
[10:41] <crimsun> ah, ices2 is using /dev/dsp
[10:41] <imbrandon> i guesss thats sometihng i should brush up on
[10:41] <crimsun> oss emulation is exclusive, just like specifying plughw:X,Y
[10:41] <crimsun> yeah, I'm writing a spec for that upon sabdfl's req
[10:42] <imbrandon> ahh i killed ices2 and it killed all the atrsd too
[10:42] <imbrandon> good nowe only kmix has it
[10:42] <crimsun> I suppose you could set arts's timeout to 1 second
[10:42] <imbrandon> brandon@horatio:~/bin$ lsof /dev/dsp* /dev/snd/*
[10:42] <imbrandon> COMMAND  PID    USER   FD   TYPE DEVICE SIZE NODE NAME
[10:42] <imbrandon> kmix    5426 brandon   11u   CHR  116,9      8206 /dev/snd/controlC0
[10:42] <crimsun> (well, artsd's)
[10:43] <imbrandon> ohhh i think its working, me checks
[10:43] <imbrandon> gah
[10:43] <imbrandon> well its working BUT now when i try to play with amarok its busy
[10:43] <crimsun> right.
[10:44] <crimsun> here's another kludge: Wrap ices2 with aoss (from 'alsa-oss')
[10:44] <crimsun> that's one thing that Windows does nicely (kernel mixing)
[10:44] <imbrandon> yea
[10:44] <imbrandon> heh
[10:44] <imbrandon> ok trying that now, i have a script that starts ices2 anyhow, i just need to modify it
[10:46] <crimsun> wow, mpg123 actually got 0.61 out
[10:48] <imbrandon> plughw:asym or plug:asym ?
[10:48] <crimsun> latter
[10:49] <imbrandon> hum it cant find that one
[10:49] <imbrandon> [2006-10-22  03:48:26]  EROR input-alsa/alsa_open_module Failed to open audio device plug:asym: No such file or directory
[10:49] <imbrandon> yea i definatly want to sit in on your spec, this stuff needs to be easier
[10:50] <imbrandon> brb i'
[10:50] <imbrandon> m a get some food
[10:50] <crimsun> imbrandon: just use the oss device for ices2 and wrap it with aoss when you invoke it
[10:59] <imbrandon> crimsun, rockin that worked
[10:59] <imbrandon> well i think it did
[10:59] <imbrandon> its streaming something
[10:59] <imbrandon> hehe
[11:00] <imbrandon> i assume its what i'm playing
[11:00] <imbrandon> anyone wanna test out the ogg stream http://federation.imbrandon.com:8000/test/high.ogg.m3u to see if i got it right ?
[11:00] <crimsun> any chance of running that on :80 ?
[11:01] <imbrandon> sure, give me a minute to restart it and shutdown apache
[11:06] <imbrandon> gah something isnt right
[11:07] <imbrandon> brandon@enterprise:~$ sudo /etc/init.d/apache2 stop
[11:08] <imbrandon>  * Stopping apache 2.0 web server...                                                                                                                                                             [ ok ] 
[11:08] <imbrandon> brandon@enterprise:~$ sudo /etc/init.d/icecast2 start
[11:08] <imbrandon> Starting icecast2: Starting icecast2
[11:08] <imbrandon> Detaching from the console
[11:08] <imbrandon> Could not create listener socket on port 80
[11:08] <imbrandon> Server startup failed. Exiting
[11:08] <imbrandon> icecast2.
[11:08] <imbrandon> brandon@enterprise:~$
[11:09] <crimsun> are you sure nothing's listening on tcp/80 ?
[11:10] <imbrandon> not sure, afaik apache was the only thing running on it
[11:10] <crimsun> # netstat -ntlp |grep :80
[11:11] <imbrandon> nothing
[11:12] <crimsun> I'm trying to remember if you have to adjust the port in both conffiles (ices2 and icecast2)
[11:12] <imbrandon> yea you do, but enterprise is a seperate computer
[11:13] <imbrandon> i have ices2 running localy and icecast2 running on enterprise
[11:14] <crimsun> I don't have the documentation in front of me, but it should be a conffile issue.
[11:14] <imbrandon> kk i'll look a bit more
[11:31] <phanatic> morning
[11:32] <crimsun> 'lo
[11:32] <phanatic> hey crimsun
[11:35] <ivoks> 'morning
[11:57] <giskard> hello
[12:04] <seaLne> how do i request a package rebuild?
[12:05] <seaLne> multisync was built against an old version of libpisock-dev
[12:11] <minghua> seaLne: and what's the consequence?  multisync not installable?  not working?
[12:12] <seaLne> not installable
[12:13] <geser> seaLne: is libpisock9 available on all archs? the last time I looked there were problems with building
[12:13] <minghua> !info libpisock9
[12:13] <ubotu> Package libpisock9 does not exist in any distro I know
[12:13] <crimsun> (add 'edgy')
[12:14] <minghua> !info libpisock9 edgy
[12:14] <ubotu> libpisock9: library for communicating with a PalmOS PDA. In component main, is optional. Version 0.12.1-5 (edgy), package size 99 kB, installed size 264 kB
[12:14] <seaLne> libmultisync-plugin-palm depends libpisock8 which isn't in edgy i386 anyway
[12:14] <minghua> seaLne: multisync was rebuilt on September 18th, the new version is 0.82-6.1build1, what is your version?
[12:15] <minghua> crimsun: thanks for the tip
[12:15] <seaLne> 0.82-6.1build1 :)
[12:15] <crimsun> np
[12:15] <minghua> okay, let's dig deeper then
[12:16] <minghua> seaLne: how?  0.82-6.1build1 FTBFS on all arches
[12:16] <seaLne> ah sorry no build1
[12:16] <seaLne> i should read more carefully sorry
[12:17] <minghua> okay, that makes sense
[12:17] <seaLne> so the build1 should have fixed this?
[12:17] <seaLne> except for you saying libpisock9 not building
[12:20] <minghua> seaLne: so multisync was sent to be rebuilt, but the building failed.  part of the failed log is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27785/, do you have any idea how to fix it?
[12:20] <seaLne> just trying to build it just now
[12:21] <seaLne> yeah still fails
[12:21] <minghua> libpisock9 looks okay to me
[12:22] <minghua> (it wasn't me that says libpisock9 falied to build)
[12:23] <seaLne> ok libpisock9 seems to exist fine, libpisock-dev installed ok for pbuilder to try to use
[12:25] <minghua> bug 67520
[12:25] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 67520 in multisync "[UNMETDEPS]  libmultisync-plugin-palm broken depends" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/67520
[12:26] <minghua> seaLne: post your discoveries in that bug, and then come here and ask a MOTU to do the upload for you
[12:27] <cbx333> do we know about this bug https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/67517
[12:27] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 67517 in nautilus "Multiple windows of home loaded for no reason" [Undecided,Confirmed] 
[12:34] <seaLne> minghua: ok, i'll have a poke
[12:39] <Fujitsu> minghua, multisync was removed from testing a while back, because nobody ended up fixing it to work with libpisock9.
[12:39] <Fujitsu> (I was looking at it this morning)
[12:39] <seaLne> ah
[12:40] <minghua> Fujitsu: add that to bug #67520, would you?
[12:40] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 67520 in multisync "[UNMETDEPS]  libmultisync-plugin-palm broken depends" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/67520
[12:40] <Fujitsu> I thought I did, but apparently not.
[12:42] <minghua> maybe because it wasn't in the [UNMETDEPS]  list in the topic (I just changed the title)
[12:42] <seaLne> Fujitsu: do you know anymore about it or just that it dosen't work with 9?
[12:42] <Fujitsu> seaLne, there are API changes which break things, I didn't look into it in detail.
[12:43] <seaLne> k
[01:10] <sivang> hi folks
[01:10] <herzi> hub: ping
[01:16] <pirast> sivang, hi
[01:17] <pirast> sivang, fpc was bootstrapped now :-)
[01:20] <pirast> sivang, ping me when you are back
[01:23] <seaLne> lure sync in kontact seems to have a similar problem to knode
[01:25] <seaLne> Lure: i previously had kitchensync installed tho so not sure if it would have had an icon in kontact if it had never been installed, as my kontact settings in my home are from previous installs
[01:30] <crimsun> seaLne: do you have time to review and test http://tiber.tauware.de/~crimsun/multisync/multisync_0.82-6.1ubuntu1.debdiff ?
[01:30] <crimsun> seaLne: it compiles, but I lack hardware on which to test.
[01:31] <seaLne> ok
[01:31] <crimsun> usual disclaimer: Please make a complete backup first, etc.
[01:32] <seaLne> multisync seems a mess the source dosen't even build on its own
[01:32] <crimsun> it's disgusting
[01:32] <minghua> crimsun: you dropped == -1 from the pi_bind() call, intentional?
[01:32] <crimsun> minghua: yes
[01:33] <minghua> crimsun: cool, just asking :-)
[01:33] <seaLne> i think multisync should be removed soon anyway as opensync is supposed to replace it
[01:35] <crimsun> ick, no, that's not good
[01:35] <crimsun> minghua: good catch
[01:35] <seaLne> crimsun: and i just restored my palm after kpilot lost all my todo and cal contents which was why this all started, ohwell :)
[01:38] <crimsun> seaLne: (new debdiff posted)
[01:39] <seaLne> same url?
[01:40] <crimsun> seaLne: yep
[01:40] <seaLne> k
[01:41] <imbrandon_> ugh i giveup for tonight, this sound stuff shouldent be this hard
[01:42] <crimsun> what's the problem?
[01:42] <imbrandon_> well i have it streaming , but its not picking up from anything
[01:42] <crimsun> ok, and you're wrapping ices2 with aoss?
[01:42] <imbrandon_> yup
[01:42] <crimsun> d'oh, that's the cause.
[01:43] <imbrandon_> and i tried it on plug:dsnoop too
[01:43] <crimsun> nah, if you're going to use alsa you need to use plughw:0,0
[01:43] <crimsun> if you're going to use /dev/dsp you shouldn't wrap it with aoss
[01:44] <crimsun> (I suppose it's another victim)
[01:44] <imbrandon_> hrm
[01:46] <imbrandon_> wow ircII you can only join one channel?
[01:46] <imbrandon_> oh well
[01:48] <crimsun> no, you can join multiple
[01:48] <crimsun> hence why clients like bx were scripted (multiple buffers)
[01:49] <crimsun> otherwise you have to create all the separate buffers and do the /joins yourself
[01:49] <imbrandon_> ahh
[01:51] <Nafallo> ajmitch: I have bug #65788 with XEN ;-)
[01:51] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 65788 in xen-source-2.6.17 "Hangs at boot on AMD64" [Undecided,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65788
[01:52] <imbrandon_> well i and using old old ircII atm so i guess i have too
[01:52] <imbrandon_> hehe
[01:52] <imbrandon_> and its late late
[01:52] <imbrandon_> gnight all
[01:52] <imbrandon_> thanks crimsun for all yhour help
[01:52] <imbrandon_> your*
[01:52] <crimsun> np
[01:52] <sivang> pirast: hey, cool, just read backlog
[01:57] <seaLne> crimsun: crashes on sync
[01:57] <crimsun> seaLne: ok, then that's a known issue
[01:58] <seaLne> seg fault
[01:58] <crimsun> yeah, it's doing nasty things with pointers
[02:00] <seaLne> crimsun: http://stuff.duffus.org/tmp/multisync.txt <- strace
[02:01] <crimsun> valgrind would be more effective
[02:02] <seaLne> not used valgrind before
[02:03] <pirast> sivang, yeah
[02:03] <pirast> sivang, do you know if fpc is recompiled automatically now?
[02:04] <sivang> pirast: I would say it needs a give-back from a builld admin
[02:05] <pirast> sivang, ok, will you ask? after fpc is available they need to  give-back libhdate
[02:05] <sivang> pirast: yes, which is needed for user-he as well ;)
[02:06] <pirast> sivang, parallely user-he should be synced from debian
[02:06] <pirast> yeah, user-he depends on libhdate and libhdate depends on fpc-compiler
[02:06] <sivang> pirast:  could you file a sync request for that and subscrive ubuntu-archive ?
[02:06] <seaLne> crimsun: http://stuff.duffus.org/tmp/multisync-valgrind.20683
[02:06] <pirast> sivang, don't we need an uvf exception?
[02:07] <sivang> pirast: you can file it and say it required UVF expection, mention the good reasons for the sync request, and subscribe ajmitch or dholbach or siretart  to it
[02:07] <pirast> sivang, that'd probably a long procedure, i do not really know if it would be easier to change the depends of user-he.. but we would have to make sure that it is synced again from debian at edgy+1
[02:08] <pirast> sivang, we can use the unmetdeps one for the sync request :-) i did 5 or so in the edgy release cycle :-)
[02:08] <sivang> pirast: sure thing, if the unmetdeps gets fixed by syncing, I see no reason why
[02:08] <sivang> not
[02:09] <sivang> (it's effectivly good as a bug fix which the universe uvf team said they all are happy to accept)
[02:09] <pirast> sivang, k
[02:10] <sivang> pirast: btw, why does a sync is only needed to fix user-he?
[02:10] <pirast> sivang, it's not just the sync
[02:10] <pirast> sivang, the sync would fix the depends on the language pack
[02:10] <sivang> pirast: oh, please, elaborate :)
[02:10] <sivang> okay, that's a starters
[02:11] <pirast> sivang, and parallely we have to fix libhdate
[02:12] <sivang> okay, user-he is anyways broken now, so even if we sync it and it doesn't get fixed, we still are in the same state we were before,
[02:12] <sivang> meaning no regression which is okay
[02:12] <sivang> so we should start by syncing and then try to fix
[02:13] <pirast> yeah
[02:13] <sivang> I'll file a sync request then
[02:13] <pirast> mhm i was doing it.. but feel free to do
[02:14] <sivang> ah, then no need for me to repeat. thanks! :)
[02:14] <pirast> argh..
[02:14] <pirast> sivang, lol.
[02:14] <pirast> they updated the package again at debian
[02:14] <sivang> argh
[02:15] <pirast> and now it depends on firefox-locale-he again
[02:15] <sivang> uh-ha, interesting.
[02:15] <pirast> sivang, yeah..
[02:16] <pirast> we have mozilla-firefox-locale-he-il and it's installable
[02:16] <pirast> do you want do prepare a debdiff or shall i?
[02:17] <sivang> pirast: I don't mind if you want to, just let me know what you prefer.
[02:18] <crimsun> seaLne: I'm pretty tired, and it's 8:17 AM. I'll try to look later this evening.
[02:18] <sivang> hi crimsun
[02:19] <pirast> sivang, i dont mind either.. but a little bit practise would be great for me since i am making preparing debdiffs since 2 weeks :-)
[02:19] <pirast> -making
[02:20] <sivang> pirast: sure thing go ahead
[02:26] <pirast> sivang, debdiff attached in bug report
[02:27] <sivang> pirast: cool, are you able to upload btw?
[02:27] <pirast> sivang, nope.. you have to :-(
[02:28] <sivang> pirast: ah , okay, let's see
[02:45] <sivang> pirast: hmm, seems the issue is more complicated then what we thought and will require further consideration,
[02:45] <pirast> sivang, whats wrong?
[02:45] <sivang> pirast: the firefox locale package you've suggested in your debdiff is actually a dummy empty one
[02:45] <sivang> Description: Transitional package for unavailable language
[02:45] <sivang>  This is an empty transitional package to ensure a clean upgrade
[02:45] <sivang>  process. You can safely remove this package after installation.
[02:45] <sivang>  .
[02:45] <sivang>  This language is unavailable for the current Firefox version.
[02:46] <pirast> sivang, umg.
[02:46] <pirast> sivang, but since ubuntu does not ship with one it is probably the best to let it depend on it
[02:46] <pirast> or to remove the depends..
[02:46] <sivang> pirast: I'm thinking to remove the dependends which a thorugh explenation in the changelog
[02:47] <pirast> sivang, yeah but depending it on a dummy package is not that bad, also..
[02:47] <pirast> when the translation gets available, it works
[02:47] <sivang> I don't see the point in having the depends if they don't serve any purpose..:-/ or maybe we should leave it for when the pakcages do get contnet someday?
[02:47] <pirast> yeah
[02:47] <pirast> i think so
[02:48] <sivang> pirast: if this is the purpose of those packages, it was slipped out of the description. the description clealry states that they are dummy ones and you can safely remove them after an upgrade
[02:48] <sivang> pirast: okay, let's leave it with the dependency on the dummy package then, not sure if I have a better idea.
[02:49] <pirast> sivang, k
[03:33] <tuxmaniac> Seveas> ping
[03:35] <gnomefreak> anyone know if there is a reason /etc/ /boot/ and the rest are hidden files?
[03:40] <StevenK> Hmph.
[03:41] <StevenK> There's 3 ada packages I've fixed unmet dependancies on.
[04:04] <Q-FUNK> http://hughsient.livejournal.com/5889.html
[04:04] <Q-FUNK> should we host "Debian tools for the RPM refugee" sessions, in response?
[05:10] <pirast> StevenK, still here?
[05:13] <pirast> StevenK, when you are re, could you please look what is wrong with the enigmail build? launchpad says "0.9x-20061010-1ubuntu1" at my profile.. but when i view builds i don't see it: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+source/enigmail-locales/+builds?build_state=all
[05:48] <markdrago>  I found a bug in an ubuntu package and would like to contribute a patch.  I'm wondering how I can access ubuntu package sources from source control.  Anyone able to help?
[05:50] <rmjb> markdrago: "apt-get source <packagename>" might be a good place to start
[05:50] <markdrago> rmjb: thanks
[05:57] <rmjb> Anyone seen Laserjock?
[06:38] <rmjb> hello anyone, it's advised not to change the source tarball, but if the source does not extract into a <package>-<version> directory format is it okay then?
[06:51] <shawarma> rmjb: Yes, that should be fine.
[06:51] <shawarma> rmjb: Er.. no.
[06:51] <shawarma> rmjb: heh... I misread your question.
[06:52] <rmjb> the package I'm working with, the source tarball extracts to <package>/<version>
[06:52] <shawarma> rmjb: Don't change the original source. dpkg-deb will unpack it in a sane way for you.
[06:53] <shawarma> rmjb: The only valid reason for changing the original source tar ball is if it's in .zip format or something (we don't support that) or if the source contains things we cannot distribute without violating either our own guidelines or upstream's ditto.
[07:02] <rmjb> ok
[07:05] <Nafallo> shawarma: or if it contains non-dfsg material :-)
[07:07] <shawarma> Nafallo: Yes. That's what the "if the source contains things we cannot..." bit meant. :-)
[07:08] <giskard> or if it ships (already package) libXXXX/ in the tar.gz
[07:08] <giskard> d*
[07:08] <shawarma> giskard: Er.. no.
[07:08] <giskard> shawarma: why not? i did so for somplayer
[07:09] <Nafallo> :-)
[07:09] <shawarma> giskard: So the orig.tar.gz for mplayer is not the original source?
[07:09] <giskard> hello nafallo :)
[07:09] <Nafallo> giskard: just don't build that dir :-)
[07:09] <Nafallo> hi giskard :-)
[07:09] <giskard> shawarma: i don't know how is made the maplayer package :( sorry.
[07:09] <giskard> Nafallo: nah, not so easy :(
[07:10] <shawarma> giskard: I just assumed "somplayer" was a typo and you meant "mplayer". What is somplayer?
[07:10] <Nafallo> giskard: works for the mplayer source ;-)
[07:10] <giskard> Nafallo: upstream ships also gettext source
[07:10] <giskard> shawarma: a stupid audio player.
[07:10] <Nafallo> tell them to stop being stupid then? :-)
[07:10] <giskard> shawarma: somasuite.org
[07:10] <shawarma> giskard: So the orig.tar.gz for somplayer is not the original source?
[07:10] <Nafallo> or patch the buildsystem :-)
[07:10] <giskard> shawarma: no
[07:10] <giskard> at last the one in Debian.
[07:11] <shawarma> giskard: Blimey. I'd definitely consider that a bug. An RC one, even.
[07:12] <giskard> shawarma: why you are considering that a RC bug?
[07:12] <shawarma> giskard: Because the integrity of the source has been hosed.
[07:12] <giskard> (ah, probably i didn't say that the tarball name was renamed)
[07:12] <shawarma> giskard: Oh, that's quite alright.
[07:12] <giskard> :)
[07:12] <shawarma> giskard: It's only got to do with the contents.
[07:13] <shawarma> giskard: Of the contents of the original source has been altered, THAT would be a bug.
[07:14] <giskard> shawarma: i don't think so :) btw, feel free to open a bug on the Debian bts and on LP :)
[07:14] <shawarma> giskard: I will. :-)
[07:22] <sivang> pirast: I uploaded your changes :)
[07:22] <pirast> sivang, great :-)
[07:29] <rmjb> it's not a problem if the source tarball is in bz2 format instead of gz right?
[07:29] <shawarma> rmjb: I actually think it is.
[07:30] <rmjb> I think I picked a troublesome package to work on as my first :(
[07:32] <shawarma> rmjb: Just checked. It has to be in gzip format.
[07:33] <shawarma> rmjb: In that case, it's quite alright to simply recompress it to gzip.
[07:33] <rmjb> ok
[07:33] <Nafallo> but dpkg supports bz2 :-)
[07:34] <shawarma> Nafallo: It does? Well, in that case I'm not sure.
[07:38] <cbx33> Hi guys, I had an idea, but not sure if it already exists, or if people would want it....it would be on an opt in only basis, basically.....when a source pacakge is updated a message is sent out to the maintainer of packages that depend on it, informing them, so they can test for breakages.  That was some people who made a package a while ago, will be informed when their package may break?
[07:38] <cbx33> good idea or am I just talking rubbish?
[07:39] <rmjb> cbx33: check this http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/ch-dother.en.html#s-watch
[07:40] <cbx33> hmm....yeh
[07:40] <cbx33> could possibly do with an update to that...
[08:23] <rmjb> /usr/bin/install: cannot create regular file `/usr/share/man/man8/dmraid.8': Permission denied
[08:23] <rmjb> why would I get this when testing with pbuildre?
[08:23] <rmjb> s/pbuildre/pbuilder
[08:27] <Gloubiboulga> because you need to install the file in 'debian/<package>/usr/share/man/man8/dmraid.8', not on the system
[08:30] <rmjb> okay then... what's weird is I'm updating an existing package... using the same debian directory, just updating the upstream tarball, changelog and one or two other little files
[08:30] <rmjb> I'll look into it though
[09:20] <giskard> Lure: what about  https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gnome-power-manager/+bug/60442
[09:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 60442 in gnome-power "Dual / Two Batteries, shutdown on empty expansion battery. (GPM does not recognises second battery on hotplug)" [Unknown,Confirmed] 
[09:20] <Lure> giskard: not much to do for release - besides documenting workaround in release notes...
[09:21] <giskard> Lure: yes, i thought the same thing :(
[09:22] <Lure> giskard: I do not see the simple fix for it, as hal is reporting remaining_time which cannot be trusted and g-p-m action is depending on it
[09:23] <giskard> Lure:  upstream said is fixed in cvs
[09:23] <Lure> giskard: good thing is that it is at least configurable - for kde (guidance-power-manager), we had to also improve a workaround which will hopefully get in before relesdr
[09:23] <giskard> uhm.
[09:24] <Lure> giskard: not really - they just changed some minor issues that were found with code review
[09:25] <Lure> giskard: both are clear issues, but with less visible side effect (only notification at wrong time) and not causing auto action
[09:25] <giskard> Lure: uhm. so the problem is in Hal and not in GP, right?
[09:25] <giskard> s/GP/gpm
[09:26] <Lure> giskard: hal or acpi quirks - it might be the later, but hal should handle it better
[09:28] <giskard> Lure: thank you.
[10:42] <CarlFK> StevenK: you said you were the last to touch spe.deb - should I report dpkg-buildpackage issues to you or who?
[12:03] <Nafallo> zul: hi. any idea about bug 65788
[12:03] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 65788 in xen-source-2.6.17 "Hangs at boot on AMD64" [Undecided,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65788
[12:03] <Nafallo> ?